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UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 06:31 PM
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

NBC News
President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.
Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”
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None of this should come as a shock to the Obama administration. The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be “grandfathered,” meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they don’t meet requirements of the new health care law. But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.


Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”
That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.
Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”
“This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn’t keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn’t make it either,” said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, a consultant who works for health industry firms. Laszewski estimates that 80 percent of those in the individual market will not be able to keep their current policies and will have to buy insurance that meets requirements of the new law, which generally requires a richer package of benefits than most policies today.
The White House does not dispute that many in the individual market will lose their current coverage, but argues they will be offered better coverage in its place, and that many will get tax subsidies that would offset any increased costs.
“One of the main goals of the law is to ensure that people have insurance they can rely on – that doesn’t discriminate or charge more based on pre-existing conditions. The consumers who are getting notices are in plans that do not provide all these protections – but in the vast majority of cases, those same insurers will automatically shift their enrollees to a plan that provides new consumer protections and, for nearly half of individual market enrollees, discounts through premium tax credits,” said White House spokesperson Jessica Santillo.
“Nothing in the Affordable Care Act forces people out of their health plans: The law allows plans that covered people at the time the law was enacted to continue to offer that same coverage to the same enrollees – nothing has changed and that coverage can continue into 2014,” she said.
Individual insurance plans with low premiums often lack basic benefits, such as prescription drug coverage, or carry high deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. The Affordable Care Act requires all companies to offer more benefits, such as mental health care, and also bars companies from denying coverage for preexisting conditions.
Today, White House spokesman Jay Carney was asked about the president’s promise that consumers would be able to keep their health care. “What the president said and what everybody said all along is that there are going to be changes brought about by the Affordable Care Act to create minimum standards of coverage, minimum services that every insurance plan has to provide,” Carney said. “So it's true that there are existing healthcare plans on the individual market that don't meet those minimum standards and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act.”

Courtesy of Heather Goldwater
Heather Goldwater, 38, of South Carolina, says that she received a letter from her insurer saying the company would no longer offer her plan, but hasn't yet received a follow-up letter with a comparable option.

Other experts said that most consumers in the individual market will not be able to keep their policies. Nancy Thompson, senior vice president of CBIZ Benefits, which helps companies manage their employee benefits, says numbers in this market are hard to pin down, but that data from states and carriers suggests “anywhere from 50 to 75 percent” of individual policy holders will get cancellation letters. Kansas Insurance Commissioner Sandy Praeger, who chairs the health committee of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, says that estimate is “probably about right.” She added that a few states are asking insurance companies to cancel and replace policies, rather than just amend them, to avoid confusion.
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A spokesman for America's Health Plans says there are no precise numbers on how many will receive cancellations letters or get notices that their current policies don’t meet ACA standards. In both cases, consumers will not be able to keep their current coverage.
Those getting the cancellation letters are often shocked and unhappy.
George Schwab, 62, of North Carolina, said he was "perfectly happy" with his plan from Blue Cross Blue Shield, which also insured his wife for a $228 monthly premium. But this past September, he was surprised to receive a letter saying his policy was no longer available. The "comparable" plan the insurance company offered him carried a $1,208 monthly premium and a $5,500 deductible.
And the best option he’s found on the exchange so far offered a 415 percent jump in premium, to $948 a month.
"The deductible is less," he said, "But the plan doesn't meet my needs. Its unaffordable."
"I'm sitting here looking at this, thinking we ought to just pay the fine and just get insurance when we're sick," Schwab added. "Everybody's worried about whether the website works or not, but that's fixable. That's just the tip of the iceberg. This stuff isn't fixable."

Heather Goldwater, 38, of South Carolina, is raising a new baby while running her own PR firm. She said she received a letter last July from Cigna, her insurance company, that said the company would no longer offer her individual plan, and promised to send a letter by October offering a comparable option. So far, she hasn't received anything.

"I'm completely overwhelmed with a six-month-old and a business,” said Goldwater. “The last thing I can do is spend hours poring over a website that isn't working, trying to wrap my head around this entire health care overhaul."
Goldwater said she supports the new law and is grateful for provisions helping folks like her with pre-existing conditions, but she worries she won’t be able to afford the new insurance, which is expected to cost more because it has more benefits. "I'm jealous of people who have really good health insurance," she said. "It's people like me who are stuck in the middle who are going to get screwed."

Richard Helgren, a Lansing, Mich., retiree, said he was “irate” when he received a letter informing him that his wife Amy's $559 a month health plan was being changed because of the law. The plan the insurer offered raised his deductible from $0 to $2,500, and the company gave him 17 days to decide.
The higher costs spooked him and his wife, who have painstakingly planned for their retirement years. "Every dollar we didn't plan for erodes our standard of living," Helgren said.
Ulltimately, though Helgren opted not to shop through the ACA exchanges, he was able to apply for a good plan with a slightly lower premium through an insurance agent.
He said he never believed President Obama’s promise that people would be able to keep their current plans.
"I heard him only about a thousand times," he said. "I didn't believe him when he said it though because there was just no way that was going to happen. They wrote the regulations so strictly that none of the old polices can grandfather."
For months, Laszewski has warned that some consumers will face sticker shock. He recently got his own notice that he and his wife cannot keep their current policy, which he described as one of the best, so-called "Cadillac" plans offered for 2013. Now, he said, the best comparable plan he found for 2014 has a smaller doctor network, larger out-of-pocket costs, and a 66 percent premium increase.
“Mr. President, I like the coverage I have," Laszweski said. "It is the best health insurance policy you can buy."

ant1999e
10-28-2013, 07:19 PM
<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/123696" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2013/10/25/cbs-horror-story-discredits-obamas-reassuring-phrase-about-keeping-he

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 07:37 PM
<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/123696" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2013/10/25/cbs-horror-story-discredits-obamas-reassuring-phrase-about-keeping-he

Rep!

Breaker
10-29-2013, 12:07 AM
Board Liberals remain quiet when confronted with facts as usual

cutthemdown
10-29-2013, 06:35 AM
Crickets!

B-Large
10-29-2013, 06:48 AM
I guess Americans are getting a good feel for how expensive private profit driven healthcare really is... lol....

when insurance compaines take 20 cents of every dollar American spends on healthcare, and that was considered an improvement over the 30-35 cents they used to take, you know your system is bordering on criminal.

But we got to keep our **** system private, we reap what we sow...

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 08:20 AM
Which is why I've been opposed to the ACA ever since the Heritage Foundation proposed it. Like Moynihan said, just take away the age limit on Medicare and be done with it. The funny thing is, Nixon is the one who said the whole health insurance industry, HMO thing was a sham right out of the gate.

And if there's one guy in the world who knew what a crooked deal was when he saw it... ;D

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 08:48 AM
Which is why I've been opposed to the ACA ever since the Heritage Foundation proposed it. Like Moynihan said, just take away the age limit on Medicare and be done with it. The funny thing is, Nixon is the one who said the whole health insurance industry, HMO thing was a sham right out of the gate.

And if there's one guy in the world who knew what a crooked deal was when he saw it... ;D

There you go again. Acting like expanding a retirement health program into a universal pay-go program is seamless.

It'd make healthcare.gov look like a walk in the park.

Buh buh buh.... we wrote legislation! That means it has to work! LOL

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 08:51 AM
There you go again. Acting like expanding a retirement health program into a universal pay-go program is seamless.

It'd make healthcare.gov look like a walk in the park.

Buh buh buh.... we wrote legislation! That means it has to work! LOL

There you go again, making up your own jokes that have nothing to do with anything and then laughing at them. What is it with you guys and your smilies, anyway? Covering up for some kind of insecurity, no doubt.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 08:55 AM
I guess Americans are getting a good feel for how expensive private profit driven healthcare really is... lol....

when insurance compaines take 20 cents of every dollar American spends on healthcare, and that was considered an improvement over the 30-35 cents they used to take, you know your system is bordering on criminal.

But we got to keep our **** system private, we reap what we sow...

Not sure where you're getting those percentages. Health Insurers aren't all that profitable. 5% is a great year for them. If you want profitable, look at Pharma and Health services. That's where most of the money goes.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/the-baucus-plan-a-winners-curse-for-insurance-companies/

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 08:57 AM
There you go again, making up your own jokes that have nothing to do with anything and then laughing at them. What is it with you guys and your smilies, anyway? Covering up for some kind of insecurity, no doubt.

Sorry man. It's just pretty funny watching Proggies in Denial, staring this whole clustereff in the face and saying to themselves "Yep. I want these guys to run my health care. All of it." LOL

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 08:57 AM
Not sure where you're getting those percentages. Health Insurers aren't all that profitable. 5% is a great year for them. If you want profitable, look at Pharma and Health services. That's where most of the money goes.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/the-baucus-plan-a-winners-curse-for-insurance-companies/

Which, from a $3 trillion dollar industry is not so bad. Especially given that they shouldn't exist in the first place. LOL

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 09:01 AM
Which, from a $3 trillion dollar industry is not so bad. Especially given that they shouldn't exist in the first place. LOL

Insurance isn't the whole industry. But even that, take the 2.2% or 3% average quoted in the article I posted. Banish it. Then watch one year of medical inflation eat that amount up and probably still outpace regular inflation on top of it.

What did you just really solve? Other than getting a few of those "Give Richie Rich What He Had Comin'" goosebumps and tingles you kids live for. LOL

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 09:01 AM
Sorry man. It's just pretty funny watching Proggies in Denial, staring this whole clustereff in the face and saying to themselves "Yep. I want these guys to run my health care. All of it." LOL

I find it just as funny to watch Right Wing fanatics... period. ;D

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 09:03 AM
I find it just as funny to watch Right Wing fanatics... period. ;D

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQen0rm_5oJPMahz8xjjeloQKLIl3Io_ R-nHi_ECkS30hSj_bkc0w

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 09:04 AM
Insurance isn't the whole industry. But even that, take the 2.2% or 3% average quoted in the article I posted. Banish it. Then watch one year of medical inflation eat that amount up and probably still outpace regular inflation on top of it.

What did you just really solve? Other than getting a few of those "Give Richie Rich What He Had Comin'" goosebumps and tingles you kids live for. LOL

I really don't have to bother arguing about it. Universal, single payer health care in America is as inevitable as snow in winter. Health care ain't widgets. Continuously trying to market it as if it were just proves a kind of intransigent stupidity that will eventually be bulldozed by history. Sayonara.

B-Large
10-29-2013, 09:09 AM
Not sure where you're getting those percentages. Health Insurers aren't all that profitable. 5% is a great year for them. If you want profitable, look at Pharma and Health services. That's where most of the money goes.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/the-baucus-plan-a-winners-curse-for-insurance-companies/

It was a rule in the ACA, 80 cents of a dollar collected has to go to direct care, other wise the premium payor gets refunded. It hard to discuss this when people don't even care to know what is in the legislation.

So the question is, what the heck are they doing with 20 cents of every dollar? They process claims, does 20 cents of every dollar we spend in the US as premium really need to a TPA to process claim? Its all computerized, you get a contract in place, assign values to CPT codes and cross them wiht ICD9's, and pay or don't pay. I understand denials and appeals, but 20% of every dollar?

By Health services do you mean hospitals? We run on 3-5% profit margins... that ain't high on the hog.

B-Large
10-29-2013, 09:14 AM
I really don't have to bother arguing about it. Universal, single payer health care in America is as inevitable as snow in winter. Health care ain't widgets. Continuously trying to market it as if it were just proves a kind of intransigent stupidity that will eventually be bulldozed by history. Sayonara.

Free Markets simple don't work efficiently in Healthcare. Everybody wants to the product, very few can pay for it outright in serious cases and as a nation we may sure everybody gets it for humanitarain reasons.

What other industries work like that? That's right, none.

Single Payor with scaled deductibles and copays for everyone. Make the Tax Imposed small, put more Americans in a place to budget for their health expenses by covering a chuck upfront. Let hospitals band together to buy drugs and supplies in mass... streamline billing and establish a National EMR so we have WAY less waste time and reosurces.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 09:18 AM
It was a rule in the ACA, 80 cents of a dollar collected has to go to direct care, other wise the premium payor gets refunded. It hard to discuss this when people don't even care to know what is in the legislation.

So the question is, what the heck are they doing with 20 cents of every dollar? They process claims, does 20 cents of every dollar we spend in the US as premium really need to a TPA to process claim? Its all computerized, you get a contract in place, assign values to CPT codes and cross them wiht ICD9's, and pay or don't pay. I understand denials and appeals, but 20% of every dollar?

By Health services do you mean hospitals? We run on 3-5% profit margins... that ain't high on the hog.

There are some arguments over how much it should cost to manage claims. But there's a reason that Medicare is the most defrauded insurance in the world. And it's defenders call that "efficiency"

The problem with 'set it and forget it' automation instead of good claims management is that once you lock a system in place, providers find out what it is.

So if you're willing to pay for w,x,y, and z under a given diagnosis code, instead of providers sometimes ordering x and z or w and y depending on the situation, they'll order all of it. Everything the system is configured to pay for. And they have software that cookbooks it all for them.

Good claim management tells the provider "Hey, you might have to defend this decision at some point, and act in the interest of efficiency for your client"

If the patient was paying directly, providers would do this intrinsically. But the idea that that can be substituted with a few coding filters is extremely naive.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 09:21 AM
By Health services do you mean hospitals? We run on 3-5% profit margins... that ain't high on the hog.

I mean the whole sector. As for Hospitals, like many interests, they have ways of putting money different places.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains

Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin. Right behind that were healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows). The worst performer was copper, with a profit margin of minus 56.6 percent.

...

Health insurers turn out to be underperformers compared with the other parts of the healthcare sector. Pharmaceutical companies have a profit margin of 16.4 percent—seventh highest of the 215 industries that Morningstar tracks. Others segments of healthcare with margins well above the median include healthcare information (9.4 percent), home healthcare firms (8.5 percent), medical labs (8.2 percent), and generic drugmakers (6.5 percent).

Rigs11
10-29-2013, 11:26 AM
Obamacare Lies Exposed -- Data Proves ACA Not Responsible For Growth In Part-Time Jobs

One of the more popular economic myths spun by the anti-Obamacare forces is the suggestion that employers are avoiding the law by moving to an employee model based on part-time workers rather than full-time employees.

For those committed to destroying the Affordable Care act by any means possible, who can blame them for seeking to misdirect based on using only a small part of the data as it pertains to employment when telling the full story blows up the entire meme? Such a claim is, after all, ear candy for an audience looking for any reason to hate the law, even if they don’t quite know why they so are so displeased.

The problem, however, is that this popular line of attack comes with a rather significant flaw—the claim is provably false.

While there are, no doubt, a few companies out there moving to increase part-time employees at the expense of full-time workers—mostly involving retail and fast food companies that have always depended heavily on a part-time employee model—it turns out that the frantic claims arguing that the ACA is causing some massive loss of full-time work is simply not supported by the empirical data.

While we will get to that data in just a moment, to better understand how the opponents of healthcare reform are selling this bit of disinformation, it is important to know the basis of their claim.

It begins by acknowledging that 27 million Americans are currently employed in part-time jobs—a number that is, in fact, well above the historical norms.

Left on its own, that bit of information ties in quite nicely with the suggestion that we can hold Obamacare responsible for these numbers when one considers that employing full-time workers holds the potential for greater benefits obligations for a company with 50 or more employees.

However, when one looks just one layer beneath the surface—a bit of research one might expect honest brokers to perform before informing the public that the sky is falling—a very different picture emerges.

There are—as defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)—two classifications of part-time workers.

Those who are working 35 hours or less because they cannot accomplish the full-time employment they desire are called “part-time for economic reasons”, while those who work 35 hours or less because that is all the work they want are part-time by choice.

A more careful review of the latest BLS jobs report out last week—a review in which the anti-Obamacare forces do not want you to engage in—reveals that while we do, indeed, currently have 27 million part-time workers in the economy, only 8 million of these people are working part-time because they cannot find a full-time job.

That means that 19 million Americans are working part-time because that is all the work they desire to have.

What’s more, not only does the September jobs report reveal that the number of part-timers wishing for full-time work showed no increase when compared to the previous month’s numbers, the report provides a piece of data far more important—

In September of 2012, the number of part-timers seeking full-time work comprised 6 percent of the workforce. One year later, the September jobs report reveals that the number has shrunk to 5.5 percent.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/10/27/one-of-the-great-anti-obamacare-lies-exposed-data-proves-aca-not-responsible-for-growth-in-part-time-jobs/

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 12:31 PM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/1380420_10152261403961729_1468703857_n.jpg

"I KNOW NOTHING!"

Smiling Assassin27
10-29-2013, 01:44 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wfl55GgHr5E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Smiling Assassin27
10-29-2013, 01:55 PM
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite


Millions of Americans knew it as well, but as many here have demonstrated repeatedly with their deliberate ignorance, they just couldn't believe this good and decent man gave less than two sh 1 ts about them. Some here were predicting this in 2009, btw.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
10-29-2013, 03:10 PM
The crazy liberal that lives down the street from me is outside on his porch crying about getting a cancellation notice in his mail. He is now pissed at Obama. It's hilarious to watch. The low information fools are getting dropped left and right. It's only gonna get worse.

Smiling Assassin27
10-29-2013, 03:15 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/dailycartoon/daily-cartoon-131030-465.jpg

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 03:17 PM
The crazy liberal that lives down the street from me is outside on his porch crying about getting a cancellation notice in his mail. He is now pissed at Obama. It's hilarious to watch. The low information fools are getting dropped left and right. It's only gonna get worse.

Millions of people. Leading to at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions of newly uninsured come Jan 1. Law of averages says some will become significantly ill.

Interesting news angle on each and every one of those who now have zero coverage thanks to Obamacares.

This new Democratic practice of calling the uninsured dirtbag freeloaders isn't going to hold up well to that kind of reality.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 03:30 PM
I don't know what's more frightening: Obama knew about all these things and lied to everybody or, he really didn't know about anything and is really this stupid.

Meck77
10-29-2013, 09:14 PM
My democrat buddy just found out he's getting kicked off his wife's family plan at her work. He's ****ing pissed.

I told him. Be careful what you wish for like I've been telling you all! What a disaster.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 09:17 PM
My democrat buddy just found out he's getting kicked off his wife's family plan at her work. He's ****ing pissed.

I told him. Be careful what you wish for like I've been telling you all! What a disaster.

LOL. You should ask him if he still wants to vote Dem/Lib?

Meck77
10-29-2013, 09:18 PM
LOL. You should ask him if he still wants to vote Dem/Lib?

I'll ask him when he can finally log in and find out how much more his insurance will be. Ha!

This mess will more than likely swing the next election.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 09:24 PM
I guess Americans are getting a good feel for how expensive private profit driven healthcare really is... lol....

when insurance compaines take 20 cents of every dollar American spends on healthcare, and that was considered an improvement over the 30-35 cents they used to take, you know your system is bordering on criminal.

But we got to keep our **** system private, we reap what we sow...

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1425766_574955815902944_1237029731_n.jpg

Arkie
10-29-2013, 09:39 PM
I don't know what's more frightening: Obama knew about all these things and lied to everybody or, he really didn't know about anything and is really this stupid.

He said repeatedly with conviction that everybody could keep their plan PERIOD. End of discussion. Many people still thought he was lying, so for the last couple years it's been "Let me be perfectly clear" "let me repeat this" "we will keep this promise" "no matter what you heard" etc.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 10:44 PM
He said repeatedly with conviction that everybody could keep their plan PERIOD. End of discussion. Many people still thought he was lying, so for the last couple years it's been "Let me be perfectly clear" "let me repeat this" "we will keep this promise" "no matter what you heard" etc.

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1002998_605784386151147_1205055357_n.jpg

Meck77
10-30-2013, 07:22 AM
He said repeatedly with conviction that everybody could keep their plan PERIOD. End of discussion. Many people still thought he was lying, so for the last couple years it's been "Let me be perfectly clear" "let me repeat this" "we will keep this promise" "no matter what you heard" etc.

Bold face LIE. Even the biggest supporters of Obamacare aren't defending this liar around here anymore now that the facts are coming out. Only been a month and it's a complete disaster. It's only the beginning.

Only a matter of time before the Obamacare supporters here get their notices that they too have been canceled!

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 07:34 AM
Bold face LIE. Even the biggest supporters of Obamacare aren't defending this liar around here anymore now that the facts are coming out. Only been a month and it's a complete disaster. It's only the beginning.

Only a matter of time before the Obamacare supporters here get their notices that they too have been canceled!

Sebelius testified "“I would suggest the website has never crashed,”

Meanwhile:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BX1LA6YCMAE2aCC.jpg

LOL

They're not even worried about splitting hairs anymore. Lying in every way imaginable is A-OK. And our resident lap-kiddies lick it up.

Rigs11
10-30-2013, 11:12 AM
Question for the cheerleaders. If these plans that people had that do not meet the standards set forth by the ACA weren't they crap plans to begin with? Bobo?

Meck77
10-30-2013, 11:22 AM
Question for the cheerleaders. If these plans that people had that do not meet the standards set forth by the ACA weren't they crap plans to begin with? Bobo?

Still one guy left defending Obamacare around here. The herd has thinned quite a bit.

What does ACA standards have to do with anything? That was never part of Obama's continued promise of...........

"If you like your doctor you will be able to keep your doctor. Period," Obama said in a speech in Chicago in 2009. "If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period."

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 11:23 AM
OK righties, I concede that Obama oversold this aspect of the PPACA. That said, I don't care that some people will be forced to upgrade. The PPACA requires standards in order to work. We can debate and adjust those standards down the line if necessary.

Meck77
10-30-2013, 11:30 AM
We can debate and adjust those standards down the line if necessary.
LOL

Interesting. Obama wasn't willing to "adjust" anything a few weeks ago. The stubborn fool wouldn't even give the common man the time he was giving major corporations. Now the jackass needs the time.

So far it's a complete failure.

Rigs11
10-30-2013, 11:40 AM
Still one guy left defending Obamacare around here. The herd has thinned quite a bit.

What does ACA standards have to do with anything? That was never part of Obama's continued promise of...........

"If you like your doctor you will be able to keep your doctor. Period," Obama said in a speech in Chicago in 2009. "If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period."

Thanks for not answering the question. Again if these plans did not meet the standards set in the ACA then how exactly did they help people. Isn't the ACA in effect solving this ptoblem?take the Obama hating out of your vile mind for one second

Meck77
10-30-2013, 11:45 AM
Thanks for not answering the question. Again if these plans did not meet the standards set in the ACA then how exactly did they help people. Isn't the ACA in effect solving this ptoblem?take the Obama hating out of your vile mind for one second

So you are saying the government knows what's best for people even though they might have been completely satisfied with their plan? The plan was sold to the people they could keep the coverage they had if they liked it. It has nothing to do with Obama hate. Just FACTS.

So far the ACA isn't solving any problems just yet. Suddenly there are going to be millions more without insurance who are forced to register on a site that doesn't even work. It's comedy. Might just be enough to cost hilary the election.

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 11:47 AM
Bill Maher puts it in perspective:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/jLIFeI2wRhw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rigs11
10-30-2013, 11:50 AM
So you are saying the government knows what's best for people even though they might have been completely satisfied with their plan? The plan was sold to the people they could keep the coverage they had if they liked it. It has nothing to do with Obama hate. Just FACTS.

So far the ACA isn't solving any problems just yet. Suddenly there are going to be millions more without insurance who are forced to register on a site that doesn't even work. It's comedy. Might just be enough to cost hilary the election.

Satisfied with a plan or only with a plan that they could afford? So you're in the group of doing nothing as usual right? This bill is huge, it going to have it's problems as we've seen. But to simply pat yourself on the back and wish for doom and gloom is exactly what is wrong with the right.

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 11:50 AM
So you are saying the government knows what's best for people even though they might have been completely satisfied with their plan? The plan was sold to the people they could keep the coverage they had if they liked it. It has nothing to do with Obama hate. Just FACTS.

So far the ACA isn't solving any problems just yet. Suddenly there are going to be millions more without insurance who are forced to register on a site that doesn't even work. It's comedy. Might just be enough to cost hilary the election.

You know, you're absolutely right! People should just have the right to judge for themselves what coverage they do and don't need no matter what kind of burden it places on the rest of us.

Hell, I've decided I don't need auto insurance. I'm a safe driver. I haven't been in an accident in years. I'm sure it'll never happen again, therefore I've determined that I don't need car insurance. Yay freedom!

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 11:56 AM
You know, you're absolutely right! People should just have the right to judge for themselves what coverage they do and don't need no matter what kind of burden it places on the rest of us.

Hell, I've decided I don't need auto insurance. I'm a safe driver. I haven't been in an accident in years. I'm sure it'll never happen again, therefore I've determined that I don't need car insurance. Yay freedom!

Your diet also places a burden on the rest of us. Can I decide what you're having for dinner?

Rigs11
10-30-2013, 12:00 PM
Your diet also places a burden on the rest of us. Can I decide what you're having for dinner?

Nope but when I have a heart attack dont whine about footing the bill if I don't have coverage

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 12:11 PM
Nope but when I have a heart attack dont whine about footing the bill if I don't have coverage

Yeah. Instead you should get subsidized coverage so I can foot the bill before it happens.

Brilliant! LOL

And this is what passes for Progressive problem solving these days.

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 12:17 PM
Yeah. Instead you should get subsidized coverage so I can foot the bill before it happens.

Brilliant! LOL

And this is what passes for Progressive problem solving these days.

Or maybe because I have insurance when I otherwise wouldn't have I'd be able to go to a doctor before I have a heart attack and get medications and professional medical advice on changing my lifestyle. Then maybe I avoid the heart attack and my condition is treated at far less expense than in the ER.

I call that problem solving.

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 12:23 PM
Or maybe because I have insurance when I otherwise wouldn't have I'd be able to go to a doctor before I have a heart attack and get medications and professional medical advice on changing my lifestyle. Then maybe I avoid the heart attack and my condition is treated at far less expense than in the ER.

I call that problem solving.

Come on now. Even CBO gave up on the old "preventative medicine is cheaper" canard a long time ago.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/08/congressional-budget-expert-says-preventive-care-will-raise-not-cut-costs/

Your high-maintenance is even more burden on me. You should buy me some beer or something.

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 12:38 PM
Come on now. Even CBO gave up on the old "preventative medicine is cheaper" canard a long time ago.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/08/congressional-budget-expert-says-preventive-care-will-raise-not-cut-costs/

Your high-maintenance is even more burden on me. You should buy me some beer or something.

Not so fast.

CBO Scoring Shortchanges Preventive Healthcare Spending

-------------

In a telephone conversation, Burgess explains that by law, the CBO must only look 10 years out when it develops cost estimates on how a piece of legislation will affect spending and revenues.

The problem is that the advantages of preventive healthcare spending for chronic diseases do not always fit neatly into that time frame. Programs to reduce the obesity rate, or to trim the increase in diabetes cases, or to keep diabetic blood sugars under control may need longer than 10 years to begin to demonstrate their full economic value.

Burgess notes that chronic disease care accounts for 70% of healthcare spending, or about $1.6 trillion annually. In this era of care coordination and care management, he explains, the savings from preventive care is "undisputed" by experts. Now, Burgess says, it is time for CBO analysis to reflect how preventive healthcare spending can begin to contain costs and provide long-term savings.

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/page-1/HEP-284839/CBO-Scoring-Shortchanges-Preventive-Healthcare-Spending


Rebutting the CBO's Preventative Care Cost Analysis

------------------

The CBO analysis and many legislative approaches to prevention focus on secondary prevention with subsequent medical interventions. They do not address primary and tertiary prevention, which represent a significant portion of health care cost savings.

The main challenge to secondary prevention has been widely discussed and provides the basis for the CBO assessment. The report states, "to avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway." We agree that some early prevention efforts, while effective at improving outcomes, were cost prohibitive because they produced widespread screening for multiple diseases. However, the discipline of preventive health care has progressed beyond its early stages to incorporate risk-based targeting and clinical recommendations. Programs such as The Prevention Plan™ combine simple blood tests with online health history and lifestyle questionnaires to identify each individual's top risks and then recommend an action plan to address only those risks. The CBO report states that preventive care "can have the largest benefits relative to costs when it is targeted at people who are most likely to suffer from a particular medical problem." These capabilities are available in the marketplace today, but not included in the analysis.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-fey/rebutting-the-cbos-preven_b_270450.html

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-30-2013, 01:04 PM
Not so fast.



http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/page-1/HEP-284839/CBO-Scoring-Shortchanges-Preventive-Healthcare-Spending




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-fey/rebutting-the-cbos-preven_b_270450.html

OMG! Did youjust quote the huffingtonpuffingronpost as your source material? Might as well post something MSNBC or aljazaar.

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 01:21 PM
Not so fast.



http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/page-1/HEP-284839/CBO-Scoring-Shortchanges-Preventive-Healthcare-Spending




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-fey/rebutting-the-cbos-preven_b_270450.html

Lolz. Imagine if I tried to rebut the CBO's findings as used in the actual ACA budgeting process with some Daily Caller piece or an article from a Healthcare industry-insider site.

Here's some more for you...

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0708558

Our findings suggest that the broad generalizations made by many presidential candidates can be misleading. These statements convey the message that substantial resources can be saved through prevention. Although some preventive measures do save money, the vast majority reviewed in the health economics literature do not.

Generally speaking the whole "More Insured People getting Preventative Treatment Saves us all lots of money" thing is a political urban legend. Completely unsubstantiated.

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 01:31 PM
Lolz. Imagine if I tried to rebut the CBO's findings as used in the actual ACA budgeting process with some Daily Caller piece or an article from a Healthcare industry-insider site.

Here's some more for you...

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0708558



Generally speaking the whole "More Insured People getting Preventative Treatment Saves us all lots of money" thing is a political urban legend. Completely unsubstantiated.

Uh huh. Two ad hominem attacks and no real response to the issues brought up by the critics of CBOs findings. Figures.

No wonder you consider preventive care savings an "urban legend." Does that bubble you live in have cable? :D

peacepipe
10-30-2013, 01:56 PM
OMG! Did youjust quote the huffingtonpuffingronpost as your source material? Might as well post something MSNBC or aljazaar.

huffingtonpost a site found by/with your buttbuddy brietbart? lame attempt.

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 01:56 PM
Uh huh. Two ad hominem attacks and no real response to the issues brought up by the critics of CBOs findings. Figures.

No wonder you consider preventive care savings an "urban legend." Does that bubble you live in have cable? :D

Before I go deeper, are you going to ride to my defense the next time Roh chides me for questioning CBO numbers? :)

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-30-2013, 02:09 PM
huffingtonpost a site found by/with your buttbuddy brietbart? lame attempt.

Yeah, such good partners that britbart starts their own their own site. LOL. At least I picked this story from NBC.

The Lone Bolt
10-30-2013, 07:42 PM
Before I go deeper, are you going to ride to my defense the next time Roh chides me for questioning CBO numbers? :)

You've already demonstrated reading comprehension problems and a tendency to respond with irrelevant quips, so go ahead and "go deeper." This ought to be worth a laugh or two. ROFL!

BroncoBeavis
10-30-2013, 09:02 PM
You've already demonstrated reading comprehension problems and a tendency to respond with irrelevant quips, so go ahead and "go deeper." This ought to be worth a laugh or two. ROFL!

Yeah, you really hit a home run there saying CBO lacks credibility because the CEO of "U.S. Preventative Medicine" says that Preventative Medicine is all that and a bag of chips. LOL

At the end of the day, all your sources did was whine about methodology, yet presented nothing in the way of their own evidence. Because if they tried, it would be pretty thin.

Pony Boy
10-31-2013, 06:47 AM
OK righties, I concede that Obama oversold this aspect of the PPACA. That said, I don't care that some people will be forced to upgrade. The PPACA requires standards in order to work. We can debate and adjust those standards down the line if necessary.

I like this the way you use the term "oversold" to replace the term "lied to". Car salesmen have been doing this for years with great success.

BroncoBeavis
10-31-2013, 07:16 AM
I like this the way you use the term "oversold" to replace the term "lied to". Car salesmen have been doing this for years with great success.

Yeah but how many of them prefaced it with "Let me be clear"

B-Large
10-31-2013, 07:22 AM
Question for the cheerleaders. If these plans that people had that do not meet the standards set forth by the ACA weren't they crap plans to begin with? Bobo?

Yes, they were most likely poor plans that would have been worse had the person holding them got very ill.

and the individual insurance market was tiny compared to those covered by Medicare, Medicaid or Employer based Group plans. So there are a few stories or people having to bu complaint plans, big deal... even if they cost more, has anyone considered that those same folks might qualigy for a credit towards that policy???

The ACA is here and going nowhere. Conservatves can bluster all they want, it makes for great soundbites and desperate rebel rousing.. in the end, people will buy insurance,the law will be fine, and again the GOP will be on the outside looking in.

BroncoBeavis
10-31-2013, 08:06 AM
Yes, they were most likely poor plans that would have been worse had the person holding them got very ill.

and the individual insurance market was tiny compared to those covered by Medicare, Medicaid or Employer based Group plans. So there are a few stories or people having to bu complaint plans, big deal... even if they cost more, has anyone considered that those same folks might qualigy for a credit towards that policy???

The ACA is here and going nowhere. Conservatves can bluster all they want, it makes for great soundbites and desperate rebel rousing.. in the end, people will buy insurance,the law will be fine, and again the GOP will be on the outside looking in.

The sick will buy insurance. A higher percentage of the healthy will not. And you can write off all the people on Medicare and employer plans if you want. Problem is, those guys don't balance any books for the new exchange pools. They're basically a completely separate market.

They basically took a market where many people sat out because the price was too high and made the price much higher.

Good luck with that.

More healthy will leave. More artificially-underpriced sick will sign up. And around this time next year, health insurers are going to have to balance things up. If you think this fall is ugly, just wait for 2014.

cutthemdown
10-31-2013, 08:24 AM
Name one thing Obama promised that hasn't been "oversold"

1-transparency?
2-unemployment from stimulus?
3-ACA?
4-civil liberties?
5-stopping war?

What hasn't he oversold?

Pony Boy
10-31-2013, 09:39 AM
Yeah but how many of them prefaced it with "Let me be clear"

"Let me be clear", the extended warranty will cover absolutely anything that happens to your automobile for life ..... trust me now sign here on the dotted line.

B-Large
10-31-2013, 10:27 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/31/congressman_paul_ryan_obamacare_not_workable_12051 8.html


So how does Paul Ryan suppose the ACA is un-workable (and the reforms are already in place and working), but privatizing Medicare would??

This is what I don't get about Republicans. They hate Government controlled/ run programs like Medicare, but the Afforadable Care Act IS the beta run for privatizing such a program in the future... IF the ACA is a success, conservatives have the upperhand on the entitlement reform narrative regarding Medicare.

they continue to fight this Phyrric War, it just doesn't seem logical.

Smiling Assassin27
10-31-2013, 10:30 AM
Yesterday, the President said in Boston that the millions of people who are getting cancellation letters ending their coverage in the individual health insurance market are being saved from "substandard plans" that were sold to them by "bad apple insurers."

I guess these would be the same insurers his staff invited to the White House last week. In their statement following that meeting, the White House said they were "committed to working in partnership with the insurers" toward implementation of the Affordable Care Act.

So, this is how he treats his "partners."

Are health insurance plans in the individual market substandard?

Not the overwhelming bulk of them.

How do I know that?

Because individual health insurance policies have been regulated for decades by the states. Every policy sold in a state has to be approved by that state's insurance commissioner. Have you heard about the longstanding debate about over whether or not states over regulate this market with too many state health insurance coverage mandates and policy requirements?

http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspot.com/2013/10/substandard-plans-offered-by-bad-apple.html

Smiling Assassin27
10-31-2013, 10:31 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/31/congressman_paul_ryan_obamacare_not_workable_12051 8.html


So how does Paul Ryan suppose the ACA is un-workable (and the reforms are already in place and working), but privatizing Medicare would??

This is what I don't get about Republicans. They hate Government controlled/ run programs like Medicare, but the Afforadable Care Act IS the beta run for privatizing such a program in the future... IF the ACA is a success, conservatives have the upperhand on the entitlement reform narrative regarding Medicare.

they continue to fight this Phyrric War, it just doesn't seem logical.


And yet every politician, dem and repub, has said the ACA is really the first step to single payer, not privatization. Go figure.

B-Large
10-31-2013, 10:33 AM
The sick will buy insurance. A higher percentage of the healthy will not. And you can write off all the people on Medicare and employer plans if you want. Problem is, those guys don't balance any books for the new exchange pools. They're basically a completely separate market.

They basically took a market where many people sat out because the price was too high and made the price much higher.

Good luck with that.

More healthy will leave. More artificially-underpriced sick will sign up. And around this time next year, health insurers are going to have to balance things up. If you think this fall is ugly, just wait for 2014.


Pure speculation. I am not convinced kids in their mid-twenties feel comfortable to go without heathcare coverage... I know that seems to be the current narrative, but I always had insurance and paid COBRA inbetween jobs... Also, why do we make the asummption that young people are stupid, so stupid they do no value protecting their financial future against medical risk?

Are we really a nation that on one side of the isle is hoping people skirt their reponsibility to pay for themselves in case of Medical issues? I thought we were the nation of personal reponsibility? I guess we are when it fits the political narrative?

B-Large
10-31-2013, 10:34 AM
And yet every politician, dem and repub, has said the ACA is really the first step to single payer, not privatization. Go figure.

Then as a Conservative, why hope it fails?

BroncoBeavis
10-31-2013, 10:35 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/31/congressman_paul_ryan_obamacare_not_workable_12051 8.html


So how does Paul Ryan suppose the ACA is un-workable (and the reforms are already in place and working), but privatizing Medicare would??

This is what I don't get about Republicans. They hate Government controlled/ run programs like Medicare, but the Afforadable Care Act IS the beta run for privatizing such a program in the future... IF the ACA is a success, conservatives have the upperhand on the entitlement reform narrative regarding Medicare.

they continue to fight this Phyrric War, it just doesn't seem logical.

You do realize there already was a private healthcare market right? Obamacare didn't invent people buying their own insurance. Our government's decision making and execution only makes it look like a Beta test. :)

BroncoBeavis
10-31-2013, 10:47 AM
Pure speculation. I am not convinced kids in their mid-twenties feel comfortable to go without heathcare coverage... I know that seems to be the current narrative, but I always had insurance and paid COBRA inbetween jobs... Also, why do we make the asummption that young people are stupid, so stupid they do no value protecting their financial future against medical risk?

Are we really a nation that on one side of the isle is hoping people skirt their reponsibility to pay for themselves in case of Medical issues? I thought we were the nation of personal reponsibility? I guess we are when it fits the political narrative?

It's not that all of them will. It's that as price tags increase, more of them will. And this law doesn't just bank on the healthy enrolling at the same rate as before. It banks on more young, healthy people insuring than ever before. With higher prices.

It's mindblowingly ill-conceived. And maybe they thought subsidies would be the difference. And that's maybe why they blew up the system to force people to sign in first to (attempt) to see a subsidized price instead of what it really costs.

But in the process they've made such a joke out of it that they'll never hit anything like the numbers they wanted. And if you can bet on anything, its that health insurers aren't going to go ahead and eat it as an act of charity.

As far as skirting responsibility, that's a copout. Young kids just starting out are the poorest demographic there is. They should be free to buy catastrophic backstop type coverage because that's all 95% of them need. Yoking them to older, wealthier people who already went through their young healthy phase while only paying their own way is not "responsibility" Just like our incredible deficits, it's political theft, plain and simple.

El Minion
10-31-2013, 03:31 PM
Another Obamacare horror story debunked (http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-debunked-20131030,0,6010994.story#axzz2jLC7Z77o)

http://www.trbimg.com/img-527193d5/turbine/la-fi-mh-debunked-20131030-001/530
CNBC's Maria Bartiromo fails to walk the last mile with Deborah Cavallaro, lower right. (CNBC)

By Michael Hiltzik
October 30, 2013, 3:26 p.m.

Deborah Cavallaro is a hard-working real estate agent in the Westchester suburb of Los Angeles who has been featured prominently on a round of news shows lately, talking about how badly Obamacare is going to cost her when her existing plan gets canceled and she has to find a replacement.

She says she's angry at President Obama for having promised that people who like their health plans could keep them, when hers is getting canceled for not meeting Obamacare's standards.

"Please explain to me," she told Maria Bartiromo on CNBC Wednesday, "how my plan is a 'substandard' plan when ... I'd be paying more for the exchange plans than I am currently paying by a wide margin."

Bartiromo didn't take her up on her request. So I will.

The bottom line is that Cavallaro's assertion that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," as she put it Tuesday on NBC Channel 4, is the product of her own misunderstandings, abetted by a passel of uninformed and incurious news reporters.

I talked with Cavallaro, 60, after her CNBC appearance. Let's walk through what she told me.

Her current plan, from Anthem Blue Cross, is a catastrophic coverage plan for which she pays $293 a month as an individual policyholder. It requires her to pay a deductible of $5,000 a year and limits her out-of-pocket costs to $8,500 a year. Her plan also limits her to two doctor visits a year, for which she shoulders a copay of $40 each. After that, she pays the whole cost of subsequent visits.

This fits the very definition of a nonconforming plan under Obamacare. The deductible and out-of-pocket maximums are too high, the provisions for doctor visits too skimpy.

As for a replacement plan, she says she was quoted $478 a month by her insurance broker, but that's a lot more than she'll really be paying. Cavallaro told me she hasn't checked the website of Covered California, the state's health plan exchange, herself. I did so while we talked.

Here's what I found. I won't divulge her current income, which is personal, but this year it qualifies her for a hefty federal premium subsidy.

At her age, she's eligible for a good "silver" plan for $333 a month after the subsidy -- $40 a month more than she's paying now. But the plan is much better than her current plan -- the deductible is $2,000, not $5,000. The maximum out-of-pocket expense is $6,350, not $8,500. Her co-pays would be $45 for a primary care visit and $65 for a specialty visit -- but all visits would be covered, not just two.

Is that better than her current plan? Yes, by a mile.

If she wanted to pay less, Cavallaro could opt for lesser coverage in a "bronze" plan. She could buy one from the California exchange for as little as $194 a month. From Anthem, it's $256, or $444 a year less than she's paying now. That buys her a $5,000 deductible (the same as she's paying today) but the out-of-pocket limit is lower, $6,350. Office visits would be $60 for primary care and $70 for specialties, but again with no limit on the number of visits. Factor in the premium savings, and it's hard to deny that she's still ahead.

Cavallaro told me a couple of things that are worth considering. First, what she likes about her current plan is that she can go to any doctor of her choice and any hospital. That's not entirely true, because her current plan with Anthem does favor a network. Plainly, however, it's broad enough to serve her purposes. She's concerned that the new plans will offer smaller networks, which is probably true, though it's not necessarily true that the new networks will exclude her favorite doctors, hospitals or prescription formularies.

She also mentioned that her annual income fluctuates. It can be substantially lower, or substantially higher, than it is this year. What if next year she earns too much to qualify for the subsidy? Also a fair point -- at her current income, the subsidy is worth more than $200 a month to her. But that's not the same as saying that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," because at her current income, the act is vastly more affordable to her than what she's paying now.

When she told Channel 4 that "for the first time in my whole life, I will be without insurance," it's hard to understand what she was talking about. (Channel 4 didn't ask.) Better plans than she has now are available for her to purchase today, some of them for less money.

The sad truth is that Cavallaro has been very poorly served by the health insurance industry and the news media. It seems that Anthem didn't adequately explain her options for 2014 when it disclosed that her current plan is being canceled. If her insurance brokers told her what she says they did, they failed her. And the reporters who interviewed her without getting all the facts produced inexcusably shoddy work -- from Maria Bartiromo on down. They not only did her a disservice, but failed the rest of us too.

Rohirrim
10-31-2013, 03:50 PM
Health care in America must be reformed or it will bankrupt us. It's time for the Right to get on board.

Pony Boy
10-31-2013, 03:55 PM
The sad truth is that Cavallaro has been very poorly served by the health insurance industry and the news media.

She seems to be very happy with her (bad apple plan) and Obama promised if she's happy then she should be able to keep it.


Obama should have said “If the government doesn’t like your plan you can’t keep it”.

The Lone Bolt
10-31-2013, 03:58 PM
She seems to be very happy with her (bad apple plan) and Obama promised if she's happy then she should be able to keep it.


Obama should have said “If the government doesn’t like your plan you can’t keep it”.

He could have said that but it would have been wrong. Everybody who has a substandard plan is free to keep it. They would have to pay a fine of course but if it's so important to them to have poor coverage they have that option.

Rohirrim
10-31-2013, 04:13 PM
We have standards of coverage for car insurance. Why not for health insurance? The whole point is, we don't want to carry freeloaders. We can't afford it. Everybody has to pay in for at least a basic amount of coverage.

Once again, I would prefer universal, single payer, but it's the same, basic idea.

cutthemdown
10-31-2013, 05:00 PM
The difference being you can choose not to drive.

Pony Boy
10-31-2013, 05:25 PM
He could have said that but it would have been wrong. Everybody who has a substandard plan is free to keep it. They would have to pay a fine of course but if it's so important to them to have poor coverage they have that option.

No, millions are getting cancellation letters, the plans they had are not available at the premiums they were paying.

Rohirrim
10-31-2013, 05:34 PM
The difference being you can choose not to drive.

At which point, you don't have to carry car insurance. You can't choose not to get sick.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-31-2013, 10:49 PM
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/559774_610706685651487_771864212_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-31-2013, 10:50 PM
At which point, you don't have to carry car insurance. You can't choose not to get sick.

Wromg. You can't choose not to live.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-31-2013, 11:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rpM106NQMzI#t=791

This is what the Dems/libs want.

fankadeo
10-31-2013, 11:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rpM106NQMzI#t=791

This is what the Dems/libs want.

you have a staggering amount of free time

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 08:24 AM
you have a staggering amount of free time

Thanks for supporting my point. :)

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 08:25 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BX_ba1lCAAE0A-G.jpg:large

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 08:38 AM
Wait a minute. Is that the liberal media making fun of Obama? Isn't that a violation of the Right Wing dogma?

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 08:39 AM
Wromg. You can't choose not to live.

Seriously. WTF?

cutthemdown
11-01-2013, 08:51 AM
At which point, you don't have to carry car insurance. You can't choose not to get sick.

So what you are coming up with something people have to buy just because they are alive. It's like a life tax. If people want to pay cash for medical care they should be able to. If people don't want insurance to cover maternity, it shouldnt have to. You don't make standards you let the market decide. If there is a market for plans with no maternity then so be it. Ummmm you know single dudes maybe lol.

This plan is simple lets make young people who aren't sick pay 2000 bucks a yr or more to get insurance. Never mind 80% of them won't go to the doctor that yr. Genius.

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 08:55 AM
So what you are coming up with something people have to buy just because they are alive. It's like a life tax. If people want to pay cash for medical care they should be able to. If people don't want insurance to cover maternity, it shouldnt have to. You don't make standards you let the market decide. If there is a market for plans with no maternity then so be it. Ummmm you know single dudes maybe lol.

This plan is simple lets make young people who aren't sick pay 2000 bucks a yr or more to get insurance. Never mind 80% of them won't go to the doctor that yr. Genius.

Some of them will go to the ER. In fact, they'll have a higher rate of going to the ER because so many of them don't have fully developed pre-frontal cortices yet and they tend to take bigger risks and make stupider decisions. Genius.

Why do you think they pay higher rates for car insurance?

cutthemdown
11-01-2013, 09:26 AM
Some of them will go to the ER. In fact, they'll have a higher rate of going to the ER because so many of them don't have fully developed pre-frontal cortices yet and they tend to take bigger risks and make stupider decisions. Genius.

Why do you think they pay higher rates for car insurance?

Some of them will go to ER so lets force all of them to pay for old peoples insurance. Genius.

cutthemdown
11-01-2013, 09:28 AM
Also he has dems now passing new legislation to force govt to let people keep insurance they have right now. If those 2 million people or whatever are allowed to do that it will mean less money for Obamacare. He will end up losing so much of his so called revenue that the numbers touted at the CBO will become a joke in a decade. It will literally be 2-3 times more expensive they Obama said in the long run.

Pony Boy
11-01-2013, 09:34 AM
The Obama administration said there were 4.7 million unique visits to the website during its first 24 hours.

But here's the not-so-funny part: Only six users were able to enroll, according to CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57610328/obamacare-enrollments-got-off-to-very-slow-start-documents-show/

SNL gets the number six right.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Rtw1ERYapjQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BroncoBeavis
11-01-2013, 09:55 AM
Some of them will go to the ER. In fact, they'll have a higher rate of going to the ER because so many of them don't have fully developed pre-frontal cortices yet and they tend to take bigger risks and make stupider decisions. Genius.

Why do you think they pay higher rates for car insurance?

Yeah, great argument. They should pay higher rates for car insurance because they're a greater risk.

And they should pay higher rates for health insurance because other people are a greater risk. LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 10:02 AM
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1393227_611523745571927_1117722682_n.jpg

cutthemdown
11-01-2013, 10:30 AM
The Obama administration said there were 4.7 million unique visits to the website during its first 24 hours.

But here's the not-so-funny part: Only six users were able to enroll, according to CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57610328/obamacare-enrollments-got-off-to-very-slow-start-documents-show/

SNL gets the number six right.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Rtw1ERYapjQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thats why they won't release official numbers. It's so pathetically low it's too humiliating to endure. They are hoping by mid nov they at least have a million or something lol. Legislation coming that extends the deadline for the penalty, you know what Obama could have given to avoid the whole shutdown. Siebulus got it right. The political climate of the dems to make repubs look bad made her unable to admit webpage wasn't ready and it needed a delay.

Mecklomaniac
11-01-2013, 11:35 AM
I thought the left was supposed to be pro choice. With Obamacare the government limits our choices to only what Sebelius says we need. So in the wisdom of big government 65 year old Nuns have to purchase insurance for maternity care and meth rehab, and erectile dysfunction. This has nothing to do with controlling healthcare costs, just another big government power grab. Keep your laws off my body...

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 11:42 AM
I thought the left was supposed to be pro choice.

Yes! Free to choose from only our choices.

BroncoBeavis
11-01-2013, 12:14 PM
I thought the left was supposed to be pro choice. With Obamacare the government limits our choices to only what Sebelius says we need. So in the wisdom of big government 65 year old Nuns have to purchase insurance for maternity care and meth rehab, and erectile dysfunction. This has nothing to do with controlling healthcare costs, just another big government power grab. Keep your laws off my body...

You hit the nail. The reality is the issue really was about control.

Everyone could've easily gotten on board with a free-market national exchange of insurance plans. The sticking point was whether it should be mandatory, and just as importantly, whether it put the Federal Government solely in charge of what an 'acceptable' Health Insurance policy had to look like.

But the "Smarter Government" result we got is (like you say), if Sister Mary doesn't have drug rehab coverage, her policy is "substandard" LOL

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 12:30 PM
Some of them will go to ER so lets force all of them to pay for old peoples insurance. Genius.

Don't try to get me into a spot where I'm defending Obamacare. Never did. Still don't. I'm talking about the general principles of insurance.

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 12:35 PM
I thought the left was supposed to be pro choice. With Obamacare the government limits our choices to only what Sebelius says we need. So in the wisdom of big government 65 year old Nuns have to purchase insurance for maternity care and meth rehab, and erectile dysfunction. This has nothing to do with controlling healthcare costs, just another big government power grab. Keep your laws off my body...

Imagine living in NY City and paying highway taxes when you've never owned a car and used the subway your whole life? Or paying for schools when you have no children? It's despicable.

("Despicable" is one of those words that when I read it, I always picture Dan Dierdork saying it. "Dethpicable.")

BroncoBeavis
11-01-2013, 01:11 PM
Imagine living in NY City and paying highway taxes when you've never owned a car and used the subway your whole life? Or paying for schools when you have no children? It's despicable.

Public service/property is a fundamentally different animal from socializing individual risk.

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 01:14 PM
Public service/property is a fundamentally different animal from socializing individual risk.

Keeping hospitals open is a public service interest. Health care costs dragging down the entire economy requires the response of the entire society, ergo "socialization."

BroncoBeavis
11-01-2013, 01:46 PM
Keeping hospitals open is a public service interest. Health care costs dragging down the entire economy requires the response of the entire society, ergo "socialization."

If that were the case, Medicare/aid would pay just as much as private insurance.

The government milks Hospitals for every nickel, now you want to tell me they only care about what's best. LOL

barryr
11-01-2013, 04:36 PM
Bottom line is Obama and his admin. lied. Millions are not going to be able to keep the plans they want as promised. Somehow Obama thinks he knows what a "good" plan is or isn't when in reality people's own insurance is none of his business. Obama wants to play God, like a true liberal, and decide what is the best insurance plan. And his defenders look like babbling idiots(yeah, I know, nothing new there) defending this complete fiasco. "Oh, it's working." What total fools. But they need this to work since government looking lost and incompetent ruins their narrative of life, so Obama's media has their cheerleading outfits on and downplaying the stupidity of the website not working and pretending the cancellation letters are just imagination and some right wing conspiracy.

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 04:38 PM
If that were the case, Medicare/aid would pay just as much as private insurance.

The government milks Hospitals for every nickel, now you want to tell me they only care about what's best. LOL

I consider the government "us," or at least that's what I think we should strive for. You consider it the enemy.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 04:55 PM
I consider the government "us," or at least that's what I think we should strive for. You consider it the enemy.

I actually feel sorry for you dude.

Meck77
11-01-2013, 07:09 PM
Saw some serious sparks flying today at the hospital. Was there for a routine sonogram with my wife as she's pregnant. Many mothers were notified that they'd their insurance contract was dropped. The staff told each couple "You can pay $700 if you want the sonogram". One after another walked out. One guy was cussing out the staff and hammering Obamacare.

It's here. "Be careful what you wished for".

barryr
11-01-2013, 07:18 PM
Saw some serious sparks flying today at the hospital. Was there for a routine sonogram with my wife as she's pregnant. Many mothers were notified that they'd their insurance contract was dropped. The staff told each couple "You can pay $700 if you want the sonogram". One after another walked out. One guy was cussing out the staff and hammering Obamacare.

It's here. "Be careful what you wished for".

The Obama supporters either don't believe such stories or put the blame somewhere else. They are simply tools.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 07:26 PM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1377952_454813401305597_626955732_n.jpg

Rohirrim
11-01-2013, 08:13 PM
I actually feel sorry for you dude.

Why? Because I agree with Lincoln? Thanks. I'll stay with the company I keep. You can hang with Ted Cruz. Hilarious!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 09:22 PM
Why? Because I agree with Lincoln? Thanks. I'll stay with the company I keep. You can hang with Ted Cruz. Hilarious!

Oh this is going to be rich. Please tell us how your veiw of government fits in with Lincolns.

Bronco Yoda
11-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Aren't we talking about only 5% of the population here getting notices? Is this incorrect?

Rohirrim
11-02-2013, 12:53 AM
Oh this is going to be rich. Please tell us how your veiw of government fits in with Lincolns.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."

You haven't read the Gettysburg Address? Why am I not surprised?

Meck77
11-02-2013, 02:30 AM
Aren't we talking about only 5% of the population here getting notices? Is this incorrect?

Well originally it was suppose to be 0%.

Now white house claims 5% or 15,000,000.

So if they are claiming 5% you can bet the number is much much higher. Only time will tell.

BroncoBeavis
11-02-2013, 04:50 AM
Aren't we talking about only 5% of the population here getting notices? Is this incorrect?

If you delay the employer mandate and only enforce the individual mandate, its a pretty weak pitch to say "Well, its only affecting that small individual market right?"

What you're seeing is only the tip of the iceberg. And the President's promises already ring hollow.

pricejj
11-02-2013, 08:23 AM
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."



Socialist's lack of basic logic is laughable.


How is deliberately increasing healthcare costs to >18% of GDP, a government "of the people"?

Rohirrim
11-02-2013, 10:28 AM
Socialist's lack of basic logic is laughable.


How is deliberately increasing healthcare costs to >18% of GDP, a government "of the people"?

Keep creating these bull**** associations in order to protect your dogma. It's laughable to watch the Right Winger desperation at work.

barryr
11-03-2013, 06:22 AM
Well originally it was suppose to be 0%.

Now white house claims 5% or 15,000,000.

So if they are claiming 5% you can bet the number is much much higher. Only time will tell.

No question. Obama made numerous speeches telling people "you can keep your insurance." There were no "buts" included in any of them. And it's not just rich people who are being hurt in this. Many people who can not afford a hike in their premiums are being affected and liked the coverage they had. It is unbelievable how Obama supporters actually think it is their business what coverage you should have and determine if the one you have had is "good enough." Funny how liberals like to proclaim they are the ones for tolerance and getting out of people's lives and protecting rights, yet they support crap like this. Hypocrites.

cutthemdown
11-03-2013, 06:30 AM
I consider the government "us," or at least that's what I think we should strive for. You consider it the enemy.

Give me a break "us" really? What a crock of liberal BS.

cutthemdown
11-03-2013, 06:31 AM
Aren't we talking about only 5% of the population here getting notices? Is this incorrect?

5% of a whole country is quite a bit.

BroncoBeavis
11-03-2013, 12:00 PM
5% of a whole country is quite a bit.

15% uninsured is a travesty of Capitalism requiring Trillion dollar Government interventions to hopefully maybe get it down to 10%.

5% losing their insurance immediately because of that intervention is an asterisk not worth talking about.

misturanderson
11-04-2013, 08:46 AM
Are there actually 5% of people legitimately losing their health insurance or are they being automatically enrolled in a similar plan that conforms to what is required by the ACA? Because I got a notice of the latter myself. I'm not losing my insurance, but I am not going to be covered under the same plan I was initially (because it didn't conform to the new standards).

BroncoBeavis
11-04-2013, 09:24 AM
Are there actually 5% of people legitimately losing their health insurance or are they being automatically enrolled in a similar plan that conforms to what is required by the ACA? Because I got a notice of the latter myself. I'm not losing my insurance, but I am not going to be covered under the same plan I was initially (because it didn't conform to the new standards).

I don't know about how they're able to roll you into a complaint plan. They might try, but two caveats to look out for (from what I've gathered over the last few weeks)

One, if you're anywhere near subsidy eligible, you shouldn't purchase insurance directly from the company. It has to go through the exchange (which doesn't work) or you can't receive the federal subsidy.

Two, the health networks are potentially much more restrictive than many people are used to. And there's not a lot of good information yet on which providers plans will cover. If you're the kind of person who has a near-intimate relationship with a provider, you'll probably want to do the leg work to make sure whatever they're moving you to (or that you pick on your own) covers the providers you want to see.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-04-2013, 09:36 AM
http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/24921-behold-an-obama-voter-facing-reality

slick7
11-04-2013, 09:43 AM
Saw some serious sparks flying today at the hospital. Was there for a routine sonogram with my wife as she's pregnant. Many mothers were notified that they'd their insurance contract was dropped. The staff told each couple "You can pay $700 if you want the sonogram". One after another walked out. One guy was cussing out the staff and hammering Obamacare.

It's here. "Be careful what you wished for".

Why does a simple sonogram cost $700? That's insane. We can b**** about the ACA, insurance companies, etc, but a $700 sonagram drives home the crux of the problem with healthcare in the USA.

BroncoBeavis
11-04-2013, 10:05 AM
Why does a simple sonogram cost $700? That's insane. We can b**** about the ACA, insurance companies, etc, but a $700 sonagram drives home the crux of the problem with healthcare in the USA.

Insurance enables the $700 sonogram. But it doesn't create it.

$700 sonograms exist because a large majority of people who need sonograms don't much care whether it costs $200 or $1,000.

Pony Boy
11-04-2013, 10:20 AM
My wife received a letter from Blue Cross that her plan would no longer be available. She has attempted to log on to the Healthcare.gov website everyday with no success. The annoying part is she fills out the same 4 pages of information including passwords, secret questions and email address before she is told the site is unavailable.

She has a catastrophic healthcare policy with a 10K deductable and it was perfect when combined with a HSA (tax-advantaged medical savings account). We used that account to pay all her routine healthcare expense.

I should feel lucky that I’m included in one of Obama’s special chosen groups that will not have to enroll in Obama care.

Meck77
11-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Why does a simple sonogram cost $700? That's insane. We can b**** about the ACA, insurance companies, etc, but a $700 sonagram drives home the crux of the problem with healthcare in the USA.

Good question. The procedure itself takes about 10 minutes. Waiting room use to be full of 20+ mothers. The other day it was empty. The business manager of the office was almost in tears as she explained the situation. I don't think she was worried about the patients as much as she was realizing she will be out a job by the end of the week.

That sucks PonyBoy. Well at least you can take comfort that you didn't vote Obama in only to cut your own throat. It's my democrat buddies that were already on the fence about Obama that undoubtedly will be kicking themselves when they get their letters. Some already have.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-04-2013, 11:22 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYPmypICEAAIMJ5.png:large

BroncoBeavis
11-04-2013, 12:08 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_ANGST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-11-03-07-39-37

AP puts the cancellation count at "at least 3.5 million" but says that doesn't include numbers from half the States.

“That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health-care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health-care plan, period.

No one will take it away, no matter what.”

Pony Boy
11-04-2013, 01:20 PM
Here's a simple question? Why can't you go to the Heathcare.gov site for your state and download a simple PDF file with all the options and prices for the healthcare plans available.

Why do you have to fill the shopping cart to see these secret prices?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-04-2013, 01:44 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1450689_10151784818102971_210853932_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-04-2013, 01:45 PM
Here's a simple question? Why can't you go to the Heathcare.gov site for your state and download a simple PDF file with all the options and prices for the healthcare plans available.

Why do you have to fill the shopping cart to see these secret prices?

Easy. Its about getting to "single payer".

Bronco Yoda
11-04-2013, 01:49 PM
Because me thinks the site was built to get you logged on & involved in the sign up process before you ever saw the actual prices. Of course people are going to interpret this differently according their political stripes.

Rigs11
11-04-2013, 01:55 PM
here's one for you bobo.thanks Obama!Hilarious!

Fox News Finds A Victim -- Of Republicans' Obamacare Sabotage

Fox News obscured Republicans' role in creating a Medicaid coverage gap in the administration's health care expansion to hype one woman's coverage loss as an example of Obama's broken promises.

Fox host Elisabeth Hasselbeck welcomed guest Tammy Fiechtner onto the November 1 Fox & Friends to discuss a letter she received from her insurer explaining that she's being automatically moved to a new insurance plan. Hasselbeck hyped "what's being called the Obamacare coverage gap," saying, despite the letter, that she "hasn't gotten a new plan. In fact, she doesn't have coverage at all." Fiechtner's comments shed more light on her predicament; the new plan she was being moved to had a similar premium, but a higher deductible. Fiechtner then explained that after exploring her options, she found that she would have qualified for Medicaid coverage under the Affordable Care Act (ACA)'s expansion of the program, but her Republican-led home state of Nebraska chose not to accept the Medicaid expansion (emphasis added):

FIECHTNER: When we went on the website, we found out that we didn't qualify for Obamacare because of how our business structure works. So, we were told that we had to go on Medicaid, which I don't understand why I have to be on Medicaid, but that's where they directed us to. Nebraska did not expand Medicaid, so there will be no help for people like ourselves. So we now are forced to buy a new plan all on own and face these expenses by ourselves.

As The New York Times reported, the ACA was "written to require all Americans to have health coverage" and "about 30 million uninsured Americans were to have become eligible for financial help" through subsidies for lower-income earners and the Medicaid expansion. According to the Times, the Supreme Court's 2012 decision to allow states to opt out of the Medicaid expansion left millions of low-income consumers without financial help in acquiring insurance:

But the Supreme Court's ruling on the health care law last year, while upholding it, allowed states to choose whether to expand Medicaid. Those that opted not to leave about eight million uninsured people who live in poverty ($19,530 for a family of three) without any assistance at all.


Hasselbeck's attempt to lay the blame for Fiechtner's situation on President Obama papers over Republicans' role in sabotaging access to affordable health insurance. As Politico reported in a November 1 story headlined "The Obamacare sabotage campaign," there is "a strong factual basis" for the charge that "calculated sabotage by Republicans at every step" has undermined key points of the law -- including the Medicaid expansion -- and has seriously damaged the overall rollout (emphasis added):


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/01/fox-news-finds-a-victim-of-republicans-obamacar/196710

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-04-2013, 02:13 PM
here's one for you bobo.thanks Obama!Hilarious!

Fox News Finds A Victim -- Of Republicans' Obamacare Sabotage

Fox News obscured Republicans' role in creating a Medicaid coverage gap in the administration's health care expansion to hype one woman's coverage loss as an example of Obama's broken promises.

Fox host Elisabeth Hasselbeck welcomed guest Tammy Fiechtner onto the November 1 Fox & Friends to discuss a letter she received from her insurer explaining that she's being automatically moved to a new insurance plan. Hasselbeck hyped "what's being called the Obamacare coverage gap," saying, despite the letter, that she "hasn't gotten a new plan. In fact, she doesn't have coverage at all." Fiechtner's comments shed more light on her predicament; the new plan she was being moved to had a similar premium, but a higher deductible. Fiechtner then explained that after exploring her options, she found that she would have qualified for Medicaid coverage under the Affordable Care Act (ACA)'s expansion of the program, but her Republican-led home state of Nebraska chose not to accept the Medicaid expansion (emphasis added):

FIECHTNER: When we went on the website, we found out that we didn't qualify for Obamacare because of how our business structure works. So, we were told that we had to go on Medicaid, which I don't understand why I have to be on Medicaid, but that's where they directed us to. Nebraska did not expand Medicaid, so there will be no help for people like ourselves. So we now are forced to buy a new plan all on own and face these expenses by ourselves.

As The New York Times reported, the ACA was "written to require all Americans to have health coverage" and "about 30 million uninsured Americans were to have become eligible for financial help" through subsidies for lower-income earners and the Medicaid expansion. According to the Times, the Supreme Court's 2012 decision to allow states to opt out of the Medicaid expansion left millions of low-income consumers without financial help in acquiring insurance:

But the Supreme Court's ruling on the health care law last year, while upholding it, allowed states to choose whether to expand Medicaid. Those that opted not to leave about eight million uninsured people who live in poverty ($19,530 for a family of three) without any assistance at all.


Hasselbeck's attempt to lay the blame for Fiechtner's situation on President Obama papers over Republicans' role in sabotaging access to affordable health insurance. As Politico reported in a November 1 story headlined "The Obamacare sabotage campaign," there is "a strong factual basis" for the charge that "calculated sabotage by Republicans at every step" has undermined key points of the law -- including the Medicaid expansion -- and has seriously damaged the overall rollout (emphasis added):


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/01/fox-news-finds-a-victim-of-republicans-obamacar/196710

LOL Hilarious! :flower: :~ohyah!: :thumbs: :rofl:
He quotes madia matters. Next you'll qutoe the koz.

BroncoBeavis
11-04-2013, 02:17 PM
here's one for you bobo.thanks Obama!Hilarious!

Fox News Finds A Victim -- Of Republicans' Obamacare Sabotage

Fox News obscured Republicans' role in creating a Medicaid coverage gap in the administration's health care expansion to hype one woman's coverage loss as an example of Obama's broken promises.

Fox host Elisabeth Hasselbeck welcomed guest Tammy Fiechtner onto the November 1 Fox & Friends to discuss a letter she received from her insurer explaining that she's being automatically moved to a new insurance plan. Hasselbeck hyped "what's being called the Obamacare coverage gap," saying, despite the letter, that she "hasn't gotten a new plan. In fact, she doesn't have coverage at all." Fiechtner's comments shed more light on her predicament; the new plan she was being moved to had a similar premium, but a higher deductible. Fiechtner then explained that after exploring her options, she found that she would have qualified for Medicaid coverage under the Affordable Care Act (ACA)'s expansion of the program, but her Republican-led home state of Nebraska chose not to accept the Medicaid expansion (emphasis added):

FIECHTNER: When we went on the website, we found out that we didn't qualify for Obamacare because of how our business structure works. So, we were told that we had to go on Medicaid, which I don't understand why I have to be on Medicaid, but that's where they directed us to. Nebraska did not expand Medicaid, so there will be no help for people like ourselves. So we now are forced to buy a new plan all on own and face these expenses by ourselves.

As The New York Times reported, the ACA was "written to require all Americans to have health coverage" and "about 30 million uninsured Americans were to have become eligible for financial help" through subsidies for lower-income earners and the Medicaid expansion. According to the Times, the Supreme Court's 2012 decision to allow states to opt out of the Medicaid expansion left millions of low-income consumers without financial help in acquiring insurance:

But the Supreme Court's ruling on the health care law last year, while upholding it, allowed states to choose whether to expand Medicaid. Those that opted not to leave about eight million uninsured people who live in poverty ($19,530 for a family of three) without any assistance at all.


Hasselbeck's attempt to lay the blame for Fiechtner's situation on President Obama papers over Republicans' role in sabotaging access to affordable health insurance. As Politico reported in a November 1 story headlined "The Obamacare sabotage campaign," there is "a strong factual basis" for the charge that "calculated sabotage by Republicans at every step" has undermined key points of the law -- including the Medicaid expansion -- and has seriously damaged the overall rollout (emphasis added):


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/01/fox-news-finds-a-victim-of-republicans-obamacar/196710

Lolz. What does Medicaid eligibility have to do with her "If you like it, you can keep it" Policy from getting cancelled?

What's next? Are you going to argue that Democrats are completely off the hook for the whole mess they made because lots of them would like government singularly paying for everything?

If anything, those Reddish states that said thanks but no thanks are looking smarter by the day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/31/in-first-month-the-vast-majority-of-obamacare-sign-ups-are-in-medicaid/

And like it said, it was the Supreme Court who said States had to be allowed to opt out of the Medicaid expansion.

Bronco Yoda
11-04-2013, 02:19 PM
I never understand why people even waste their time watching Fox 'news'. I get the argument about the biases in most of the media but why make it worse by watching something that flat out lies to you. Are people really that desperate to have their views reflected back to them regardless if it's true or not. Truly pathetic.

El Guapo
11-04-2013, 02:31 PM
OK righties, I concede that Obama oversold this aspect of the PPACA. That said, I don't care that some people will be forced to upgrade. The PPACA requires standards in order to work. We can debate and adjust those standards down the line if necessary.

Still drinking the company kool-aid, I see.

Rigs11
11-04-2013, 02:37 PM
LOL Hilarious! :flower: :~ohyah!: :thumbs: :rofl:
He quotes madia matters. Next you'll qutoe the koz.

there's avide you can watch,from fox news.

Rigs11
11-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Lolz. What does Medicaid eligibility have to do with her "If you like it, you can keep it" Policy from getting cancelled?

What's next? Are you going to argue that Democrats are completely off the hook for the whole mess they made because lots of them would like government singularly paying for everything?

If anything, those Reddish states that said thanks but no thanks are looking smarter by the day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/31/in-first-month-the-vast-majority-of-obamacare-sign-ups-are-in-medicaid/

And like it said, it was the Supreme Court who said States had to be allowed to opt out of the Medicaid expansion. for the tards to point out that this woman's rates went up and medicaid didn't help because the state opted out is moronic.it's like setting a house on fire and then compalining about the smoke

BroncoBeavis
11-04-2013, 02:45 PM
for the tards to point out that this woman's rates went up and medicaid didn't help because the state opted out is moronic.it's like setting a house on fire and then compalining about the smoke

Hah. Yeah. "Never mind all the exploding prices and cancelled coverage under the 'Affordable' Care Act. Gummint should just pay more. Cuz that solves everything." LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-05-2013, 08:20 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/601495_10151753619071336_957501216_n.jpg

Smiling Assassin27
11-05-2013, 03:44 PM
36 friggin' times...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qpa-5JdCnmo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-05-2013, 04:18 PM
36 friggin' times...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qpa-5JdCnmo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rep!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-06-2013, 10:30 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYZMBnfCAAEo-U6.png:large

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-06-2013, 07:38 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/aca-obama-keep.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-06-2013, 08:31 PM
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1507180.1383674180!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/cancer6n-2-web.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-advisor-outrages-jab-cancer-victim-insurer-article-1.1507182

President Obama's top adviser Dan Pfeiffer has taken aim at the heartfelt op-ed penned by a terminal cancer patient about the disastrous impact of Obamacare on her treatment.
Pfeiffer tweeted a jab at the argument presented by Edie Littlefield Sundby, who is battling stage 4 gallbladder cancer, in her Wall Street Journal piece about how elements of her treatment will not be covered with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, since her insurance company won't participate in the new program.
RELATED: OBAMA’S AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE ACT DOOMS ME TO DIE: PATIENT
After the op-ed heard 'round the world gained considerable media coverage, Pfeiffer took to Twitter to place blame at the feet of Sundby's insurance company for dropping the ball, not the administration's reform.
He posted a link to a Think Progress story, “The Real Reason That The Cancer Patient Writing In Today's Wall Street Journal Lost Her Insurance,” but soon earned disdain for targeting a vulnerable patient.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-advisor-outrages-jab-cancer-victim-insurer-article-1.1507182#ixzz2jvmU9fx8

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-06-2013, 08:31 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/aca-obama-keep.jpg

Youmust work for the white house.

Dukes
11-06-2013, 09:16 PM
Loyal Obama Supporters, Canceled by Obamacare

San Francisco architect Lee Hammack says he and his wife, JoEllen Brothers, are “cradle Democrats.” They have donated to the liberal group Organizing for America and worked the phone banks a year ago for President Obama’s re-election.

Since 1995, Hammack and Brothers have received their health coverage from Kaiser Permanente, where Brothers worked until 2009 as a dietitian and diabetes educator. “We’ve both been in very good health all of our lives – exercise, don’t smoke, drink lightly, healthy weight, no health issues, and so on,” Hammack told me.


http://www.propublica.org/article/loyal-obama-supporters-canceled-by-obamacare?utm_campaign=bt_twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social


Darn.

Meck77
11-07-2013, 02:01 AM
Ironically enough Cruz was actually doing Obama a favor by recommending he delay the mandate for a year. Now he's getting more and more pressure from his own party to delay the mandate. It's nothing short of a soap opera.

GreatBronco16
11-07-2013, 12:07 PM
Well everyone at my work just got their notices in the mail that 2014 will be the last year that my company offers BCBS. Not sure what it will be replaced with, but so far the word isn't all that great. We use BCBS of Michigan which is way better than BCBS of Alabama. I pay $290 a month for 90%+ coverage. I went to the healthcare website to see what the cost of matching inssurance was, and for the Platnium, it would cost me $1100 a month.Ha! Even the lowest one would cost me over $600 a month.

The Lone Bolt
11-07-2013, 02:04 PM
Well everyone at my work just got their notices in the mail that 2014 will be the last year that my company offers BCBS. Not sure what it will be replaced with, but so far the word isn't all that great. We use BCBS of Michigan which is way better than BCBS of Alabama. I pay $290 a month for 90%+ coverage. I went to the healthcare website to see what the cost of matching inssurance was, and for the Platnium, it would cost me $1100 a month.Ha! Even the lowest one would cost me over $600 a month.

Did the prices quoted include subsidies?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-07-2013, 02:17 PM
http://b-i.forbesimg.com/robertlenzner/files/2013/11/Obamacare-health-ins.-cc2-565x5651.jpg

GreatBronco16
11-07-2013, 02:20 PM
Did the prices quoted include subsidies?

Yes. What the government would pay me when I file my taxes would be around 3k. Which still doesn't drop the monthly rate that I would have to pay at 1100 dollars. Of course I would have to actually sign up and apply to get the accurate price, however I'm sure this isn't off by much.


Thank God that as of right now, I don't have to get that.

Requiem
11-07-2013, 02:26 PM
Yikes, GB16. I hope you and yours will be able to find something affordable.

Bronco Yoda
11-07-2013, 02:35 PM
Yes & no. Cruz was doing himself a favor and giving a big F.U. to everyone else including the Republican party. Had the Teatards sat back and let this website mess unfold then they'd be sitting much prettier right now. This was about one man wanting to create a tough guy rep for the upcoming pres. election. Which will IRONICALLY only screw the very movement his followers champion because there's no way he's electable by the national population now. But he'll get just enough traction in the presidential primary and caucuses to scorch any truly electable conservative.

Then we can all enjoy the haters throwing three year old tantrums because now a woman will be in the oval office. Out with the black man in with the woman. Continue the hate fest. Rinse and repeat. Come to think about it, that might just be the ticket for the tea party to retain their numbers. Maybe that's really the diabolical long term plan all along. :)

Back to the Obamacare website mess & mandate. They had to (from their standpoint) launch it now so it wouldn't muddy the electoral waters coming up. They should be able to fix the bugs in the months to come. This whole system is going to require constant fixes, changes & tweaks anyway to work.

Computer software\hardware developers have been doing the same sort of thing for years. roll out a defective product to meet a deadline then worry about patching it later. Sure people bitch about it, but they'll buy the next years version every time because their last game/program eventually worked. We all have super short memories.

And if the worst case scenario happens, and the site/registration system is never able to get patched together in time... then he can always throw the Republicans a bone with delaying the mandate anyway.

The Lone Bolt
11-07-2013, 02:40 PM
http://b-i.forbesimg.com/robertlenzner/files/2013/11/Obamacare-health-ins.-cc2-565x5651.jpg

An old study making projections, not using the actual numbers.

Requiem
11-07-2013, 02:40 PM
Scrap ObamaCare -- lets get single payer universal.

cutthemdown
11-07-2013, 02:45 PM
In many cases substandard only means it has no maternity provisions or mammogram screenings.

cutthemdown
11-07-2013, 02:46 PM
Scrap ObamaCare -- lets get single payer universal.

Of course conservatives realize that is the plan and Obamacare just a stepping stone to get people depending on the gubbamit!

Requiem
11-07-2013, 02:48 PM
Of course conservatives realize that is the plan and Obamacare just a stepping stone to get people depending on the gubbamit!

Sup Cut? Come up with any tunes lately?

What instruments you play again?

Record me some horn samples or key samples and send 'em my way. I am making an OM Rap Album.

Bronco Yoda
11-07-2013, 02:55 PM
Scrap ObamaCare -- lets get single payer universal.

We'll have to go to it in some form or fashion someday whether we like it or not. You can't have a system that rewards corporations offloading their healthcare costs onto the taxpayer while themselves being protected by the tax system. And to then compounding the situation by not paying them enough to afford the health care that's needed to sustain a healthy workforce. It's cannibalism. it can only go on for so long. The death knell is relying on the medical system as one of financial cornerstones of the economy.

You need a healthy workforce to be a productive workforce. Yet the average person cant afford medical treatment. ObamaCare is a first step for catastrophic protection and the unanswerable but doesn't do much for the average healthy worker. The deductibles are too high.

BroncoBeavis
11-07-2013, 03:49 PM
You can't have a system that rewards corporations offloading their healthcare costs onto the taxpayer while themselves being protected by the tax system

You do realize that the fact that you view healthcare costs as an employer responsibility in the first place is an American peculiarity. One that needs to be remedied.

Step 1, stop giving corporations special tax treatment for buying employee health care... Give it to individuals instead.

There are ways out of this mess that don't involve turning all of your care over to the Geniuses behind Healthcare.gov.

GreatBronco16
11-07-2013, 05:18 PM
Yikes, GB16. I hope you and yours will be able to find something affordable.

Well we will find out this time next year on what our insurance will change to. So far what I'm hearing is for family it will cost me 46 dollars a pay period which is 92 a month. It will have a yearly copay of 2500 dollars that will have to be paid first before the insurance kicks in and covers at 100%. The company will kick in 1500 towards that 2500 dollars.

Not sure how accurate this is, but like I said, we will find out this time next year when we have our open enrollment.

barryr
11-08-2013, 05:28 AM
The reality is the dullard Obama supporters even when they get their cancellation letters and/or premium increase will just find a way to blame it on republicans or capitalism. They have too much invested in Obama to ever admit he lied about people keeping their insurance as they wanted and firmly believe, as Ed Asner even admitted, criticizing Obama means you must be racist, (he's a democrat, so off limits, but black and latino republicans are fair game of course)so be afraid to say anything.

peacepipe
11-08-2013, 05:46 AM
The reality is the dullard Obama supporters even when they get their cancellation letters and/or premium increase will just find a way to blame it on republicans or capitalism. They have too much invested in Obama to ever admit he lied about people keeping their insurance as they wanted and firmly believe, as Ed Asner even admitted, criticizing Obama means you must be racist, (he's a democrat, so off limits, but black and latino republicans are fair game of course)so be afraid to say anything.

ed asner? you're resorting to quoting b rated actors?!:rofl:

Meck77
11-08-2013, 06:19 AM
Yes & no. Cruz was doing himself a favor and giving a big F.U. to everyone else including the Republican party..

Cruz ACCURATELY described the train wreck that was coming. Better to sound the alarm bell BEFORE an accident than after. More and more democrats are even urging Obama to delay the mandate. Are they concerned for the common man? No. They admittedly are concerned about being attached to the train wreck known as Obamacare and being elected.

I suspect even some of our staunchest defenders of obamacare around here will get their letters of cancellation soon if they already haven't.

"Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it". Remember that.

Smiling Assassin27
11-08-2013, 09:40 AM
Why is it that President Douchebag always seems to think it's HIS responsibility to fix stuff but it's NEVER his responsibility to see to it that it was done right in the first place?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-08-2013, 10:08 AM
https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1452558_383862405080277_1861533178_n.jpg

Breaker
11-10-2013, 04:38 AM
http://www.bartcop.com/aca-obama-keep.jpg

I don't believe that it is the GOVERNMENT'S role to establish what is substandard for ME. If people want those plans, they should have the right to keep them, if the current plan works for them and their lifestyle, then the government shouldn't be the one to tell them that it's not.

barryr
11-10-2013, 08:27 AM
ed asner? you're resorting to quoting b rated actors?!:rofl:

Maybe because he's the only one with the guts to state what they all think genius. Hollywood sure seems awfully silent these days about Obama LOL

barryr
11-10-2013, 08:30 AM
Why is it that President Douchebag always seems to think it's HIS responsibility to fix stuff but it's NEVER his responsibility to see to it that it was done right in the first place?

It's the typical liberal "we need to fix this" mentality because something dares not to meet their Utopian, idealistic world, but are too lay to develop a coherent plan and go with their usual half thought out, mixed up mess instead.

barryr
11-10-2013, 08:39 AM
The liberals sure love to worry about their gay marriage rights even though that is small percentage of people affected. They also love to worry about their abortion rights and killing babies even though that really affects a small percentage as well. But then when it comes to people's insurance, they as well as their liar in chief in the WH, suddenly decide it's "only a small percentage"(though far more people will be affected than the numbers of gay or abortions) so who cares, that's their problem. Can these idiots ever be consistent on any issue? No.

The Lone Bolt
11-10-2013, 01:06 PM
I don't believe that it is the GOVERNMENT'S role to establish what is substandard for ME. If people want those plans, they should have the right to keep them, if the current plan works for them and their lifestyle, then the government shouldn't be the one to tell them that it's not.

And I don't believe that YOU have the "right" to stick the rest of us with the bill when you go to an ER and can't pay due to substandard or no insurance.

For some people, their current plan may work for them but not for the rest of us.

houghtam
11-10-2013, 02:55 PM
And I don't believe that YOU have the "right" to stick the rest of us with the bill when you go to an ER and can't pay due to substandard or no insurance.

For some people, their current plan may work for them but not for the rest of us.

More "gubmint can't tell me what to do" BS.

Guess what? It's already been litigated.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-10-2013, 07:20 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DBeUSPaPyqc?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-10-2013, 09:19 PM
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."

You haven't read the Gettysburg Address? Why am I not surprised?


Lets look closely at this statment.

"Government of the poeple"He's talking about the fact that the Governemnt is made up of people from the citizenry. He is pointing out that its is unlike the monarchy that we left England for.

"by the people"He is saying that this governemnt was created by the people. Government doesn't come before the people. It comes after.

"for the people" He is saying that this governemnt works for the people. We do not work for the government. The government works for us.

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1469965_10151769016641336_737634494_n.jpg

This is where you must have taken your U.S. Governemnt class.<Facepalm>

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-11-2013, 12:26 AM
^

L0L!

Did he just use a Fox News video clip as a "source?"

:laugh:

misturanderson
11-11-2013, 10:18 AM
How about something direct from the source for those ardently opposed to the ACA and blaming all shortcomings on Obama.

Fox News: Insurance cancelled? Don't blame Obama or the ACA, blame America's insurance companies (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/05/insurance-cancelled-dont-blame-obama-or-aca-blame-america-insurance-companies/)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-11-2013, 01:56 PM
How about something direct from the source for those ardently opposed to the ACA and blaming all shortcomings on Obama.

Fox News: Insurance cancelled? Don't blame Obama or the ACA, blame America's insurance companies (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/05/insurance-cancelled-dont-blame-obama-or-aca-blame-america-insurance-companies/)

Heh!

That's sure to make some right-wing heads explode. Ha!

BroncoBeavis
11-11-2013, 02:01 PM
Heh!

That's sure to make some right-wing heads explode. Ha!

It's Juan Williams, dude. Should I start quoting George Will and saying it came from "The Washington Post?"

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-11-2013, 04:50 PM
^

L0L!

Did he just use a Fox News video clip as a "source?"

:laugh:

I glad that YOU think its funny a guy lost his cancer saving insurance policy. Laugh it up. Hope Karma isn't looking over your shoulder.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-11-2013, 09:16 PM
It's Juan Williams, dude. Should I start quoting George Will and saying it came from "The Washington Post?"

The lemmings who get their "news" from Fox don't care about such trifling details.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-11-2013, 09:17 PM
I glad that YOU think its funny a guy lost his cancer saving insurance policy. Laugh it up. Hope Karma isn't looking over your shoulder.

No - I think it's funny that you're using a video clip from Fox News and expecting anyone outside your delusional circle jerk to take you seriously.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-12-2013, 09:52 AM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y9yVy-RXhxQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

cutthemdown
11-12-2013, 12:00 PM
It was a lie for our own good though right lefties?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-12-2013, 07:06 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1458633_458242590954713_1097848139_n.jpg

pricejj
11-12-2013, 10:38 PM
Obamacare is a complete disaster. After that, the Socialists plan to ripoff century old European single-payer which has been proven not to work.

Why do the Socialists continue to ignore the last 20 years of advancement and efficiency brought by individual choice and private payment?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-13-2013, 07:59 AM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p75x225/1457510_10151774263366336_2094622107_n.jpg

Rohirrim
11-13-2013, 08:08 AM
Obamacare is a complete disaster. After that, the Socialists plan to ripoff century old European single-payer which has been proven not to work.

Why do the Socialists continue to ignore the last 20 years of advancement and efficiency brought by individual choice and private payment?

Doesn't work? How many Europeans or Canadians are driven into bankruptcy by medical bills? Oh, that's right. Zero. How many Americans last year? Two million. "Doesn't work" is a relative term, I guess.

Pony Boy
11-13-2013, 10:25 AM
When the smoke clears the only people with healthcare will be the illegal aliens they can still go to the ER's for free.

BroncoBeavis
11-13-2013, 10:44 AM
When the smoke clears the only people with healthcare will be the illegal aliens they can still go to the ER's for free.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/12/the-obamacare-exchange-scorecard-around-100000-enrollees-and-five-million-cancellations/

The Obamacare Exchange Scorecard: Around 100,000 Enrollees And Five Million Cancellations

When your business is representing the downtrodden towards your majority, sometimes you gotta manufacture a few more downtroddens. LOL

Rigs11
11-13-2013, 11:05 AM
As usual price starts off with his "socialists are evil" bs. What's funny is that his hero Reagan is the one that signed the bill that forces all of us to pay for people that don't have insurance. On top of it it applies to everyone, illegals too. Wow, are you upset yet?Tell me price, is reagan a socialist?Hilarious!

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. Participating hospitals may only transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment under their own informed consent, after stabilization, or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-13-2013, 04:37 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p75x225/1395883_10152020257161178_626852811_n.jpg

Rohirrim
11-13-2013, 04:50 PM
When did Chris Farley become the mayor of Toronto? I thought he was dead?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-14-2013, 02:44 PM
<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/124045" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Smiling Assassin27
11-14-2013, 03:31 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/iPcgQx3QUlg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-20-2013, 04:22 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/bush-war-profits-obama-not.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-20-2013, 04:35 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/gop-aca-job.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-23-2013, 01:15 PM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1471968_10151798516056336_1110333319_n.jpg

The Lone Bolt
11-23-2013, 06:58 PM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1471968_10151798516056336_1110333319_n.jpg

I suppose it would be futile to mention that this is pure BS. That those "cancellations" are actually people who are still able to get insurance. That calling them simply "cancellations" without elaboration is a half truth and deliberately misleading.

I thought not.

cutthemdown
11-23-2013, 07:27 PM
liberals complaining statements are misleading is pretty funny. It's not misleading people that were young and healthy, with cheap insurance, are getting cancelled and forced into to higher cost plans.

Rich people got off easy Obama delayed the employer mandate and the tax on caddilac insurance plans. Those are what pays for a lot of this when the time comes in 2015/16. The problem is Obama knows they are destroyers of the economy and that even more people will then lose insurance plans. His ACA will be blowing up long after he is gone as the next president tries to pay for it and make it work.

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2013, 07:43 PM
I suppose it would be futile to mention that this is pure BS. That those "cancellations" are actually people who are still able to get insurance. That calling them simply "cancellations" without elaboration is a half truth and deliberately misleading.

I thought not.

Yeah. Fail. By that definition nobody's insurance ever gets cancelled because they can usually get coverage somewhere else.

The Lone Bolt
11-23-2013, 11:19 PM
Yeah. Fail. By that definition nobody's insurance ever gets cancelled because they can usually get coverage somewhere else.

Oh please. You know as well as I do that the BS narrative the repubs are pushing now is that millions have lost their insurance for good because of the PPACA.

I watched that immoral dishonest creep Ted Cruz promote this horseshyte on CNN.

Six months from now, if the majority of those "cancelled" find policies just as good or better on their state exchanges do you think Cruz or the rest of the hypocritical repub "leaders" will own up to it? Of course not.

Lying sleazebag f--ks.

BroncoBeavis
11-24-2013, 06:04 AM
Oh please. You know as well as I do that the BS narrative the repubs are pushing now is that millions have lost their insurance for good because of the PPACA.

I watched that immoral dishonest creep Ted Cruz promote this horseshyte on CNN.

Six months from now, if the majority of those "cancelled" find policies just as good or better on their state exchanges do you think Cruz or the rest of the hypocritical repub "leaders" will own up to it? Of course not.

Lying sleazebag f--ks.

Your chiggers would win the Lombardi every year with that kind of goalpost shifting.

From "If you like your plan you can keep it, Period" to "Well, if we outlaw your plan, I'm sure you can find something else"

And you have the nuts to call someone counting cancellations a liar. LOL

The Lone Bolt
11-24-2013, 09:33 AM
Your chiggers would win the Lombardi every year with that kind of goalpost shifting.

From "If you like your plan you can keep it, Period" to "Well, if we outlaw your plan, I'm sure you can find something else"

And you have the nuts to call someone counting cancellations a liar. LOL

So when republicans deliberately distort, mislead, and give only half the truth about these "cancellations" it's not lying.

Uh huh. You keep telling yourself that.

BroncoBeavis
11-25-2013, 05:44 AM
So when republicans deliberately distort, mislead, and give only half the truth about these "cancellations" it's not lying.

Uh huh. You keep telling yourself that.

Using your definition, cancellations could basically never exist. But deep down you know that. Cheerleaders gotta cheer. Regardless of how ridiculous it makes them sound.

The Lone Bolt
11-25-2013, 10:55 AM
Using your definition, cancellations could basically never exist. But deep down you know that. Cheerleaders gotta cheer. Regardless of how ridiculous it makes them sound.

You're missing the point. By omitting certain fact the republicans are trying to push the false narrative that millions of Americans lost great insurance policies and are now permanently uninsured because of Obamacare. That's a big, fat lie no matter how you want to spin it.

BroncoBeavis
11-25-2013, 12:21 PM
You're missing the point. By omitting certain fact the republicans are trying to push the false narrative that millions of Americans lost great insurance policies and are now permanently uninsured because of Obamacare. That's a big, fat lie no matter how you want to spin it.

"Great" is in the eye of the beholder. This much is undoubtedly true.

If left intact, Obamacare will result in many millions of people being forced into plans THEY consider to be worse than what they already had. So far as they don't ignore Obama's Choice and drop out entirely.

Ultimately, the individual's judgement is the one that counts. Obama knew this when he sold the central lie to protect the ACA's narrow passage. To squeeze it through, he had to pretend to respect the individual's choice in health care while ultimately knifing it in the back. Now that the truth is revealing itself, it's a little late in the game to start crying foul over "spin"

barryr
12-06-2013, 04:22 AM
Interesting how the liberals have decided to change the subject in regards to Obamacare and talk about anything but that. Wear your farce with pride bozos.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-07-2014, 05:36 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1901181_10151961427111336_1613556496_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-09-2014, 03:07 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1513675_624489194282939_998365657_n.jpg

houghtam
02-09-2014, 03:20 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1513675_624489194282939_998365657_n.jpg

Why are you posting this now?

Your join date was 2004.

Can you provide a link to your posting this (or anything like it) before Obama was elected, you know, much closer to when the Patriot Act was enacted?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-10-2014, 01:25 PM
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/1621702_10151924331910911_929405020_n.png

houghtam
02-10-2014, 01:58 PM
Thought so.

Coward.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-11-2014, 01:25 PM
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1904105_508404249279845_1121704093_n.jpg

houghtam
02-11-2014, 03:57 PM
LOL

Do you know what a black card can be used for? Tanning. The ACA taxes tanning salons. Planet Fitness is CHOOSING to apply this tax to all black card holders when they could easily charge a separate fee instead. Since not all black card holders use the service, Planet Fitness is essentially using the ACA as an excuse to gouge their customers. They are bringing in more money by doing this.

Try again, numb nuts!

...and in comes txtebow...

"DID SOMEBODY SAY BLACK??"

Requiem
02-11-2014, 03:58 PM
I'll ask them about it tomorrow when I go workout.

houghtam
02-11-2014, 04:02 PM
I'll ask them about it tomorrow when I go workout.

http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/Planet-Fitness-Applies-Obamacare-Tanning-Tax-Members-69585-1.html

Nice summary right here.

cutthemdown
02-11-2014, 04:25 PM
Maybe it was too much trouble to come up with new cards, or figure out who uses the tanning beds. It makes sense to just charge extra for a tax to the service offered with your membership. I doubt they are making more money. They probably just passed the tax along, just like conservatives said they would.

Tax never hits anyone harder then consumers.

houghtam
02-11-2014, 04:42 PM
Maybe it was too much trouble to come up with new cards, or figure out who uses the tanning beds. It makes sense to just charge extra for a tax to the service offered with your membership. I doubt they are making more money. They probably just passed the tax along, just like conservatives said they would.

Tax never hits anyone harder then consumers.

They are absolutely bringing in more money than the tax would cost. They are charging it to people who do not use the service. The ACA taxes tanning services, not everything that goes along with them.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-21-2014, 11:41 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/1610021_794775570536064_1256060500_n.jpg

cutthemdown
02-21-2014, 01:04 PM
They are absolutely bringing in more money than the tax would cost. They are charging it to people who do not use the service. The ACA taxes tanning services, not everything that goes along with them.

Yeah but if i join a gym and dont use the pool, i still have to pay for pool maintenance and such in my membership.

Its like saying i don't watch food channel, subtrack that from my bill. Nope if food channel is part of your plan, and govt raises the tax on food channel, guess whose cable is going up?

You don't get to lower your gym membership by saying I don't use free weights, subtrack some money, i only use the stairclimber. That isn't how a gym works.

If tanning is inclluded, and a tax on tanning goes through, then guess what everyone pays for it.

If the govt said movies are a dangerous place. We pass a law saying all theaters must have an armed guard, guess what movie prices go up. Even if you say i don't want the guard to protect me, give me lower price, they will say sorry everyone pays.

Thats how it works. Welcome to the world you helped bring about. It's only going to get worst. Hell liberals have it there way you won't even be able to buy pot without a huge tax.

cutthemdown
02-21-2014, 01:06 PM
I've had friends who went to colo shops, what a rip off. Govt steps in, prices go through the roof, what a surprise. Meanwhile I get top quality old school og strains for 8 bucks a gram under the table. Legal shops? lol 15 to 20 bucks a gram. And calif not even taxing them yet lol.

cutthemdown
02-21-2014, 01:07 PM
Tanning salons is a white person tax.

houghtam
02-21-2014, 01:28 PM
I've had friends who went to colo shops, what a rip off. Govt steps in, prices go through the roof, what a surprise. Meanwhile I get top quality old school og strains for 8 bucks a gram under the table. Legal shops? lol 15 to 20 bucks a gram. And calif not even taxing them yet lol.

Dumb. We've already schooled you on this.

1) The market hasn't corrected itself yet. Once competition arises and the number of points of sale go up, the market will normalize. This is basic economics. Another "free market" numbnuts who doesn't understand "free market".

2) Pot prices vary widely by state. California has always had lower prices than most places. This stuff is readily available on the internet if you know where to look. Hell, right here in Indiana it is about $400 an ounce. But you can drive an hour north to Michigan and get it for $300.

cutthemdown
02-21-2014, 01:32 PM
Weed would be about 50 bucks an ounce if you just made it legal, no holds barred.

cutthemdown
02-21-2014, 01:36 PM
Sorry Houghtam if market corrected, and price went down, politicians will just vote in another tax. Trust me they will be able to put it on ballot and win everytime because more people don't smoke then smoke.

It won't get cheaper.

houghtam
02-21-2014, 01:38 PM
Weed would be about 50 bucks an ounce if you just made it legal, no holds barred.

Less than that considering you could grow it. And alcohol would be dirt cheap if they didn't tax that, either...now back in the real world...

But you said decriminalization was the way to go, not legalization. Are you changing your stance? Or are you just using that argument because it's convenient for you to try and prove your point?

houghtam
02-21-2014, 01:41 PM
Sorry Houghtam if market corrected, and price went down, politicians will just vote in another tax. Trust me they will be able to put it on ballot and win everytime because more people don't smoke then smoke.

It won't get cheaper.

God you're dumb.

I refer you to a previous post of mine. Alcohol is taxes. It is still affordable. You can still get ****ed up. It will be the same for pot. You can sorry houghtam me all you want, but it doesn't change reality...the reality that you have no clue what the **** you're talking about.

Amateurs.

cutthemdown
02-21-2014, 01:47 PM
And this is the price before the FDA has started to make rules on quality, bugs, pesticides.

pricejj
02-21-2014, 08:34 PM
30% tax on marijuana sales in CO. Why isn't alcohol taxed that much?

cutthemdown
02-22-2014, 02:03 AM
Big govt, can't even get high without a tax anymore.

barryr
02-22-2014, 05:01 AM
Dumb. We've already schooled you on this.

1) The market hasn't corrected itself yet. Once competition arises and the number of points of sale go up, the market will normalize. This is basic economics. Another "free market" numbnuts who doesn't understand "free market".

2) Pot prices vary widely by state. California has always had lower prices than most places. This stuff is readily available on the internet if you know where to look. Hell, right here in Indiana it is about $400 an ounce. But you can drive an hour north to Michigan and get it for $300.

LOL, liberals still with their gang mentality. Why do you bozos always need help and have to have others to stand behind? You sound and look like babies when you do this, which is constant around here.

houghtam
02-22-2014, 06:22 AM
LOL, liberals still with their gang mentality. Why do you bozos always need help and have to have others to stand behind? You sound and look like babies when you do this, which is constant around here.

Ahh, typical barry.

Someone doesn't understand that market normalization doesn't occur 45 days after a product is released after spending decade after decade as illegal with a stigma attached to its use...it takes three separate people to explain this fact to him, and he STILL doesn't get it.

And who does barry blame? The people pointing it out. Why? Because...liberalism!

Hilarious!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-01-2014, 08:45 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1920454_10152030961753717_99197130_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-03-2014, 06:41 AM
Dem/Lib defense.

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/923496_667742716598171_705314896_n.jpg

Rohirrim
03-03-2014, 07:56 AM
In the old days, the elites would repress the masses using coercion and force. They're much smarter now. Now they use propaganda and just get the masses to repress themselves. Brilliant!

Garcia Bronco
03-03-2014, 08:12 AM
Weed would be about 50 bucks an ounce if you just made it legal, no holds barred.

We made it legal here and it's stupid right now.

73 bucks an 8th for the top quality you can buy without a medical card. You can't even get the top quality stuff retail. I am going back to the black market. lol

bronco militia
03-03-2014, 08:20 AM
We made it legal here and it's stupid right now.

73 bucks an 8th for the top quality you can buy without a medical card. You can't even get the top quality stuff retail. I am going back to the black market. lol

LOL....taxes will keep the black market around forever

The Lone Bolt
03-03-2014, 02:13 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1920454_10152030961753717_99197130_n.jpg

Somebody needs to tell these idiots that they have been paying for their neighbor's medical care for decades.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-09-2014, 04:56 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1779776_638796092852249_990837998_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-09-2014, 07:15 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/923500_10153885805250494_2010795243_n.png

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-12-2014, 10:01 AM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1959302_680563422001292_2128121214_n.png

Rigs11
03-12-2014, 02:17 PM
http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20130920&Category=BLOG24&ArtNo=130919011&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Mike-Thompson-Republicans-Obamacare-obsession

BroncoBeavis
03-12-2014, 02:31 PM
http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20130920&Category=BLOG24&ArtNo=130919011&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Mike-Thompson-Republicans-Obamacare-obsession

That whale should be beached, dead, and spit open if we're trying to show reality.
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304250204579433312607325596?mobile =y

Obama slit his "signature achievement's" throat just to keep Republicans from doing it for him. LOL

Obama just delayed for 2 years after shutting down the government over one. LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-12-2014, 03:11 PM
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1891205_10151985715315896_1177281007_n.jpg

The Lone Bolt
03-12-2014, 03:15 PM
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1891205_10151985715315896_1177281007_n.jpg

The republican's goal was never delay, it was to kill the law completely. Delaying any aspect of the PPACA was only a means to that end. Don't pretend otherwise.