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Jetmeck
10-21-2013, 10:03 PM
Guys and gals.................

This is about truth, not right or left...........

How can you condone outright lies from anyone especially

when its about something this important ?


http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sea n_hannity_on_obamacare/

Rohirrim
10-21-2013, 10:07 PM
Sean Hannity has been caught lying so many times that it's become passe. Anyway, the Right Wing fanatics are wrapped up in the delusion of a belief system. It's not fact based. Reason does not apply. They don't care.

Jetmeck
10-21-2013, 10:10 PM
Sean Hannity has been caught lying so many times that it's become passe. Anyway, the Right Wing fanatics are wrapped up in the delusion of a belief system. It's not fact based. Reason does not apply. They don't care.



I know and understand this. However I live in a fact based world and still hold out hope for the retards living in the bubble.

This is too important to allow lies to sway the uninformed among us...

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-21-2013, 10:50 PM
Guys and gals.................

This is about truth, not right or left...........

How can you condone outright lies from anyone especially

when its about something this important ?


http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sea n_hannity_on_obamacare/

Dude you're quoting Salon. LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-21-2013, 11:12 PM
<iframe src="http://embed.newsinc.com/Single/iframe.html?WID=1&VID=25277141&freewheel=69016&sitesection=breitbartprivate&width=640&height=480" height="480" width="640" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"></iframe>

This is lying. LOL

ant1999e
10-22-2013, 12:08 AM
They should do a fact check on Obamacare. Maybe do a fact check on the long list of broken promises that were made. OP's a douche............................................ .................

ant1999e
10-22-2013, 12:47 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2Qtx_ZcHOjw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Hilarious!

peacepipe
10-22-2013, 01:06 AM
Dude you're quoting Salon. LOL

LOL this coming from a guy that gets his news from the national inquirer.

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 09:33 AM
Guys and gals.................

This is about truth, not right or left...........

How can you condone outright lies from anyone especially

when its about something this important ?


http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sea n_hannity_on_obamacare/

Lolz. The Obama administration is lying about the Obamacare rollout in just about every fashion imaginable.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/politics/obamacare-website-problems/

Hilarious that whenever their guys' **** is falling apart, they turn to the time-honored tradition of screaming at some Faux Red Herring. LOL

Rigs11
10-22-2013, 09:46 AM
As usual, the pessimistic rightards offer nothing but criticism. Not once have they offered any solutions to help improve the ACA. Just like now all they do is criticize the website. it will get fixed. Do you honeslty think that you are going to gain any votes with your constant whining? look at the polls idiots

cutthemdown
10-22-2013, 12:08 PM
As usual, the pessimistic rightards offer nothing but criticism. Not once have they offered any solutions to help improve the ACA. Just like now all they do is criticize the website. it will get fixed. Do you honeslty think that you are going to gain any votes with your constant whining? look at the polls idiots

Improving it like trying to sweep a dirt floor. You can only clean it up so much.

Rigs11
10-22-2013, 01:02 PM
Improving it like trying to sweep a dirt floor. You can only clean it up so much.

thanks for proving my pointHilarious!

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 01:51 PM
Dude you're quoting Salon. LOL


They called the people on the Fox News story.

It was all BS.....what is wrong with you ?

Can you not accept the truth ?

nyuk nyuk
10-22-2013, 01:55 PM
All networks lie, stir the pot, exaggerate, and invent crises. This is nothing new.

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Lolz. The Obama administration is lying about the Obamacare rollout in just about every fashion imaginable.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/politics/obamacare-website-problems/

Hilarious that whenever their guys' **** is falling apart, they turn to the time-honored tradition of screaming at some Faux Red Herring. LOL


ANYONE need to know why this country if ****ed up ?

Look at this guy ?

The website is a mess, we all know it ?

The individual state sites are fine. Republican legislatures

blocked many states from implementing their own site.

Republicans forced the fed gov to do this and as usual you want

blame it all on OBAMA.

JUST CAUSE THE WEBSITE IS SCREWED UP DOESN'T MAKE ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT IT WRONG OR BAD.

YOU are an idiot if that is what you believe.,

You reach for anything to make your case, no matter how unimportant or even a lie......


Fox News is lying amd misleading people...........

Yes we know the website has problems.........

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 01:59 PM
How about calling a turd a turd...FOX NEWS is misleading people.

Do some of you have any honesty in you ?

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 02:01 PM
All networks lie, stir the pot, exaggerate, and invent crises. This is nothing new.



I don't care which network it is this is some important stuff they

lying about to try to make a case.

There is a pattern here folks........conservative republican pattern.

This is wrong............call them on it.

I don't care which network is lying........its way out of line.

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 02:04 PM
Improving it like trying to sweep a dirt floor. You can only clean it up so much.


Millions are already geting benefits from it right now.

Prexisting, stay on parents, no caps, ets.


Hell wife got a free mamagram, several of them.

Woulda been 200 a pop.........I am gonna get a colon scope for free.

Kids healthcare premiums went down almost 200 a month.

NO SUBSIDIES FOR ME but many will get them.........

Same company and policies.......10/1/13

Obamacare is already working.



Other than its you don't like OBAMA, whats the problem ?


Do you have a better plan ?

We sure haven't heard ONE EXAMPLE OF THE REPUBLICAN PLAN ??

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 02:07 PM
They should do a fact check on Obamacare. Maybe do a fact check on the long list of broken promises that were made. OP's a douche............................................ .................


Alright you lying clown, which broken promises ?

Millions already benefitting and don't be telling its gonna do this or that..........financially when you don't have a crystal ball ?

Your a FOX NEWS watcher, aren't ya ?

Facts matter, do not make stuff up...............

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 02:10 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2Qtx_ZcHOjw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Hilarious!


Hear the first lines about the shutdown ?

Country gonna turn more blue than a SMURFS balls ?

lol

You guys ****ed yourself pretty good.........

Do you even know the truth ?

Jetmeck
10-22-2013, 02:14 PM
So I point out a blatant lie about one the most important things going on in this country and you righties deflect, etc.


Your parents should all be slapped, this is really really sad.

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 02:29 PM
So I point out a blatant lie about one the most important things going on in this country and you righties deflect, etc.


Your parents should all be slapped, this is really really sad.

Let's see.

The administration didn't test anything until the last minute, because the system wasn't ready.

Those last minute tests epically failed.

The administration launches it anyway, wasting everyone's time inputting very personal information into a system that was known not to work.

And then outright lied and pretended like they didn't know what was going to happen. Even though analysts and carriers had been warning them for months.

And what you're worried about is something Sean Hannity said about it on Fox News. LOL

Rohirrim
10-22-2013, 02:39 PM
Meanwhile, the Tea Party revolution and its policy of obstruction, forcing the country into continual crisis economics, has slowed the recovery and cost America a million jobs over the last three years.

True story, dat.

ant1999e
10-22-2013, 05:21 PM
How about calling a turd a turd....

Sup turd.....................

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-22-2013, 05:25 PM
LOL this coming from a guy that gets his news from the national inquirer.

Show me where I quoted from there. jackwagon. LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-22-2013, 05:26 PM
Meanwhile, the Tea Party revolution and its policy of obstruction, forcing the country into continual crisis economics, has slowed the recovery and cost America a million jobs over the last three years.

True story, dat.

Now that you're losing this argument ....lets switch topics.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-23-2013, 02:46 AM
Meanwhile, the Tea Party revolution and its policy of obstruction, forcing the country into continual crisis economics, has slowed the recovery and cost America a million jobs over the last three years.

True story, dat.

Yep.

This shutdown debacle is just the most recent example.

But Teapublican pinheads like Hobo keep insisting that BJs for billionaires is the answer.

BroncoBeavis
10-23-2013, 07:15 AM
Yep.

This shutdown debacle is just the most recent example.

But Teapublican pinheads like Hobo keep insisting that BJs for billionaires is the answer.

You know things aren't going well when they stack up cliches for a big namecalling bonfire. LOL

Rohirrim
10-23-2013, 08:00 AM
Yep.

This shutdown debacle is just the most recent example.

But Teapublican pinheads like Hobo keep insisting that BJs for billionaires is the answer.

Hobo can't do much more than post vids and smilies. Give him a break. He's special.

BroncoBeavis
10-23-2013, 08:45 AM
New Thread Title.

Healthcare.gov caught lying about Obamacare:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-feature-often-lists-wrong-prices-for-coverage/

Wu said it's "incredibly misleading for people that are trying to get a sense of what they're paying."

Prices for everyone in the 49-or-under group are based on what a 27-year-old would pay. In the 50-or-older group, prices are based on what a 50-year-old would pay.

CBS News ran the numbers for a 48-year-old in Charlotte, N.C., ineligible for subsidies. According to HealthCare.gov, she would pay $231 a month, but the actual plan on Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina's website costs $360, more than 50 percent higher. The difference: Blue Cross and Blue Shield requests your birthday before providing more accurate estimates.

The numbers for older Americans are even more striking. A 62-year-old in Charlotte looking for the same basic plan would get a price estimate on the government website of $394. The actual price is $634.

Classic bait and switch.

B-Large
10-23-2013, 08:46 AM
What I take away from this:

1. Cable News if not really News though it is passed off as such

2. Most Americans are retards, and think Cable News has integrity.

Glad that is cleared up.

Miss I.
10-23-2013, 08:52 AM
For the record, I did go on and use the website, which was working fine by the time I got to it a week or so later after its roll out. Shopping was fairly easy and I was able to compare it to my current coverage under my employer plan. I found the same insurance carrier as I use now, but its still definitely cheaper to go with the one under my employer then under this act. It took into account, my age, my preexisting medical conditions and overall health. It is still cheaper for me to use my employer's plan, but if I didn't have anything this is much cheaper than when I shopped around years ago and could only find things for $650 a month. There are also very very expensive plans on it, but on the low end there are some cheap ones that really only cover very minimal so someone is covered basically on major things, but not check ups and things. It's an interesting thing. We will see how well it actually runs.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-23-2013, 10:07 AM
New Thread Title.

Healthcare.gov caught lying about Obamacare:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-feature-often-lists-wrong-prices-for-coverage/



Classic bait and switch.
This should be its own thread. LOL

Pony Boy
10-23-2013, 11:36 AM
Kathleen Sebelius Told CNN:

1) "If we had an ideal situation and could have built the product in, you know, a five-year period of time, we probably would have taken five years. But we didnít have five years."

2) "The issue is, will people be able to sign up for affordable health care in the six months' open enrollment period?"

3) "We anticipated at the outset that everyone would never use the website. That needs to be part of the opportunity."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/10/23/the_four_most_worrisome_things_kathleen_sebelius_t old_cnn.html

"you can't make this stuff up" ....LOL

Pony Boy
10-23-2013, 11:54 AM
They called the people on the Fox News story.

It was all BS.....what is wrong with you ?

Can you not accept the truth ?

Check you viewer ratings, I think you will find America has spoken loud and clear...... Fox is killing all others.

Miss I.
10-23-2013, 11:59 AM
Just because Fox ratings are high doesn't mean they didn't lie.Jersey Shores probably got high ratings, doesn't mean it isn't stupid.

houghtam
10-23-2013, 12:30 PM
Ahh, the typical conservative doublespeak. "You can't associate my views with Fox News when they are obviously fabricating a story, but they have high ratings, so that means something."

BroncoBeavis
10-23-2013, 01:22 PM
Funniest thing is, what you're crying about Hannity possibly doing is exactly what your administration already did weeks ago.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/10/04/obamacare-chad-henderson-father

You guys perfected the 'fake but accurate' poster child racket. Now you want to have exclusive use. LOL

Rohirrim
10-23-2013, 01:50 PM
Check you viewer ratings, I think you will find America has spoken loud and clear...... Fox is killing all others.

They're about as "real" as reality TV, and just as popular.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-23-2013, 02:45 PM
For the record, I did go on and use the website, which was working fine by the time I got to it a week or so later after its roll out. Shopping was fairly easy and I was able to compare it to my current coverage under my employer plan. I found the same insurance carrier as I use now, but its still definitely cheaper to go with the one under my employer then under this act. It took into account, my age, my preexisting medical conditions and overall health. It is still cheaper for me to use my employer's plan, but if I didn't have anything this is much cheaper than when I shopped around years ago and could only find things for $650 a month. There are also very very expensive plans on it, but on the low end there are some cheap ones that really only cover very minimal so someone is covered basically on major things, but not check ups and things. It's an interesting thing. We will see how well it actually runs.

Really? Then you need to call CNN right now. Because that channel couldn't find one to put on TV. LOL

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/22/obamacare-who-pays-more-who-pays-less/?hpt=ac_bn4

ant1999e
10-23-2013, 03:30 PM
http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?catid=57608843&feed_id=999&videofeed=999
(CBS News) CBS News has uncovered a serious pricing problem with HealthCare.gov. It stems from the Obama administration's efforts to improve its health care website. A new online feature can dramatically underestimate the cost of insurance.

The administration announced it would provide a new "shop and browse" feature Sunday, but it's not giving consumers the real picture. In some cases, people could end up paying double of what they see on the website, CBS News' Jan Crawford reported Wednesday on "CBS This Morning."...

Miss I.
10-23-2013, 04:40 PM
Really? Then you need to call CNN right now. Because that channel couldn't find one to put on TV. LOL

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/22/obamacare-who-pays-more-who-pays-less/?hpt=ac_bn4

Why are you being a dick to me? Searching it wasn't difficult or anything. I didnt' claim that I tried to register though. That could be more of a problem. All I did was search the different things. I simply related my very brief experience with it.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-23-2013, 05:52 PM
Why are you being a dick to me? Searching it wasn't difficult or anything. I didnt' claim that I tried to register though. That could be more of a problem. All I did was search the different things. I simply related my very brief experience with it.

Sorry if I came off that way. You're one of my favorite posters on the mane (especially your birthday threads :) ). But enrollment is very hard. On the Megan Kelly show they calculated that at the current pace of enrollment they will have 1.06 million people enrolled by the deadline of 01/01/2014. However for this program to work it will require 7 million by that date. And It'll require healthy young people paying high premiums and deductibles to off set the sick that will pushed onto this program.

Its a lot like SS. When they take the tax out of your paycheck. It doesn't go to some bank account with your name on it. It goes to for a retired person. Right now there are about 3 people supporting every retiree.

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/worker-per-beneficiary-chart-580.jpg

Well you're probably thinking "they don't take out that much out of my paycheck". Well that's why the debt is so high.

Fedaykin
10-23-2013, 06:00 PM
Well you're probably thinking "they don't take out that much out of my paycheck". Well that's why the debt is so high.

Completely, entirely wrong. The SS program currently has collected over 3 trillion more than it has put out in benefits. It has not contributed a penny to the debt (in fact, 3+ trillion of the debt is the money borrowed from the SS program).

Rohirrim
10-23-2013, 06:12 PM
Completely, entirely wrong. The SS program currently has collected over 3 trillion more than it has put out in benefits. It has not contributed a penny to the debt (in fact, 3+ trillion of the debt is the money borrowed from the SS program).

A favorite line of Right Wing bull****. No matter how many times it gets blown up, they still believe it. That's what you get from ideology based radicals. Facts are unimportant. Only belief counts.

Pony Boy
10-23-2013, 08:23 PM
It took into account, my age, my preexisting medical conditions and overall health.

That's interesting; I thought there wasn't questions regarding a pre-existing condition on the application. Did it ask you to list your preexisting conditions?

BroncoBeavis
10-24-2013, 09:30 AM
Completely, entirely wrong. The SS program currently has collected over 3 trillion more than it has put out in benefits. It has not contributed a penny to the debt (in fact, 3+ trillion of the debt is the money borrowed from the SS program).

In other words, it's not all those credit cards you applied for that were the problem. It was all the drugs and strippers and gambling you used them on. LOL

At the end of the day, it matters little. The bill still comes due. And the repayment has to come from the same place as everything else.

broncocalijohn
10-24-2013, 12:14 PM
Hobo can't do much more than post vids and smilies. Give him a break. He's special.

You realize you just quoted the guy who is known for giving everyone cartoons, correct? LOL

Requiem
10-24-2013, 12:17 PM
The Fox News channel here (local, not national) is actually quite liberal.

broncocalijohn
10-24-2013, 12:18 PM
Check you viewer ratings, I think you will find America has spoken loud and clear...... Fox is killing all others.

Let us compare apples to apples. How is Megan Kelly doing heads up against a female. All I see is her and a dude.

Mecklomaniac
10-25-2013, 07:40 AM
As usual, the pessimistic rightards offer nothing but criticism. Not once have they offered any solutions to help improve the ACA. Just like now all they do is criticize the website. it will get fixed. Do you honeslty think that you are going to gain any votes with your constant whining? look at the polls idiots


Concept from lean manufacturing. "Never improve a process you should not be doing at all". Obamacare is beyond a minor tweak here and there. It is fundamentally flawed and should be removed and replaced.

As far as polls go, who cares. We are a year away from the next elections. A long time for millions of people who are now losing their healthcare to stew about it. You can argue details about why they are losing it and whether or not it is directly caused by Obamacare. In the end though it doesn't matter when you lose your current healthcare plan and can't purchase a new one. Through republican ads the public will become very familiar with Obama's promise that if you like your plan you can keep it.

cutthemdown
10-25-2013, 07:55 AM
You wonder if some of that money spent promoting Obamacare would not have been better used testing the site, making sure it worked. They worried too much about people signing up, before they knew if they could sign up. The ran before they had the ball so to speak.

BroncoBeavis
10-25-2013, 08:03 AM
Concept from lean manufacturing. "Never improve a process you should not be doing at all". Obamacare is beyond a minor tweak here and there. It is fundamentally flawed and should be removed and replaced.

As far as polls go, who cares. We are a year away from the next elections. A long time for millions of people who are now losing their healthcare to stew about it. You can argue details about why they are losing it and whether or not it is directly caused by Obamacare. In the end though it doesn't matter when you lose your current healthcare plan and can't purchase a new one. Through republican ads the public will become very familiar with Obama's promise that if you like your plan you can keep it.

If there was truth in advertising, what Obama should've said was "If WE like your plan, you can keep it."

Because that's basically what it is.

The Lone Bolt
10-25-2013, 01:04 PM
Concept from lean manufacturing. "Never improve a process you should not be doing at all". Obamacare is beyond a minor tweak here and there. It is fundamentally flawed and should be removed and replaced.

As far as polls go, who cares. We are a year away from the next elections. A long time for millions of people who are now losing their healthcare to stew about it. You can argue details about why they are losing it and whether or not it is directly caused by Obamacare. In the end though it doesn't matter when you lose your current healthcare plan and can't purchase a new one. Through republican ads the public will become very familiar with Obama's promise that if you like your plan you can keep it.

Look, why don't you guys on the right admit to one thing right now publicly: no matter what the results are you are always going to declare Obamacare a failure. Even if it works perfectly, brings premiums down, improves the quality of medical care, and covers everybody, you're still going to cry "failure!" Admit it.

barryr
10-25-2013, 08:42 PM
Look, why don't you guys on the right admit to one thing right now publicly: no matter what the results are you are always going to declare Obamacare a failure. Even if it works perfectly, brings premiums down, improves the quality of medical care, and covers everybody, you're still going to cry "failure!" Admit it.

It would be no different what liberals and democrats do.

cutthemdown
10-25-2013, 09:39 PM
The numbers are that in the states with exchanges, the only people signing up so far are medicade. So the poor and sick are flocking, at some point the healthy have to in order to pay for it all. Would fines by themselves pay for it? Do those numbers crunch?

cutthemdown
10-25-2013, 09:41 PM
also if you get a tax subsidy to pay for insurance, but the economy just keeps making life more and more expensive with more fee's and local taxes then ever etc etc, will poor people really get free healthcare? Or will they just pay for it by rich people paying them less, charging them more money for rent, food, gas etc?

barryr
10-26-2013, 07:45 AM
Report coming out stating 16 million people figure to lose their healthcare in the next year and will need to sign up for more expensive coverage because of Obamacare. It just keeps getting better.

BroncoBeavis
10-26-2013, 10:46 AM
Look, why don't you guys on the right admit to one thing right now publicly: no matter what the results are you are always going to declare Obamacare a failure. Even if it works perfectly, brings premiums down, improves the quality of medical care, and covers everybody, you're still going to cry "failure!" Admit it.

Coming from the dude who was celebrating in advance what a success it was going to be, this means little.

The Lone Bolt
10-26-2013, 11:23 AM
Coming from the dude who was celebrating in advance what a success it was going to be, this means little.

I'm not absolutely certain that it will succeed. But there are real-world examples of very similar systems producing results in Switzerland and MA. That's the main source of my confidence in it.

But if the PPACA fails to function well even after repeated reform I will admit that it doesn't work and support repeal. I just see that as highly unlikely give the real-world results we've seen elsewhere.

How about you? If the PPACA works will you admit it?

BroncoBeavis
10-27-2013, 07:44 AM
I'm not absolutely certain that it will succeed. But there are real-world examples of very similar systems producing results in Switzerland and MA. That's the main source of my confidence in it.

But if the PPACA fails to function well even after repeated reform I will admit that it doesn't work and support repeal. I just see that as highly unlikely give the real-world results we've seen elsewhere.

How about you? If the PPACA works will you admit it?

Define "works"

If it signs up 7 million new insureds (pipe dream) after costing 7 million people their old coverage, is that "working?"

"If you like your plan you can keep it". Lie.

If it does absolutely nothing to prevent the continued explosion of health care costs? Nobody even pretends like this law is going to do anything about that anymore.

"Bend the Cost Curve". Lie.

If it reduces the uninsurance rate by 25‰ is that "covering the uninsured"

I'll believe it when I see it. But considering the scope of promises made on this bill, even that would do little to instruct us that the bill worked as advertised. We got the hard Billy Mays sell. The product simply can't live up to what our government told us. Even if the implementation had been somewhere north of cataclysmic.

barryr
10-27-2013, 08:58 AM
I remember a time when the liberals wouldn't have accepted such a thing, before 2009 at least, but it's ok now. Even members of Obama's media are subject to threats, but timid responses and objections as expected. The messiah has a thin skin to say the least.

CNN's Carol Costello: Obama's People Are 'Nasty'

"President Obama’s people can be quite nasty. They don’t like you to say anything bad about their boss, and they’re not afraid to use whatever means they have at hand to stop you from doing that, including threatening your job," she said.

"Only weeks ago, the Washington Post published a long piece calling the Obama administration the "most closed, control-freak administration" ever seen. The piece went on to paint Barack Obama's White House as being presided over by a paranoid, secretive, even vindictive president and said that journalists have become afraid of their own shadows for fear that Obama is spying on them."


http://www.onenewspage.us/n/US/74w2r5sji/CNN-Carol-Costello-Obama-People-Are.htm

cutthemdown
10-27-2013, 11:09 AM
Obama is spying on them.

The Lone Bolt
10-27-2013, 12:11 PM
Define "works"

If it signs up 7 million new insureds (pipe dream) after costing 7 million people their old coverage, is that "working?"

"If you like your plan you can keep it". Lie.

If it does absolutely nothing to prevent the continued explosion of health care costs? Nobody even pretends like this law is going to do anything about that anymore.

"Bend the Cost Curve". Lie.

If it reduces the uninsurance rate by 25Č is that "covering the uninsured"

I'll believe it when I see it. But considering the scope of promises made on this bill, even that would do little to instruct us that the bill worked as advertised. We got the hard Billy Mays sell. The product simply can't live up to what our government told us. Even if the implementation had been somewhere north of cataclysmic.

OK, Obamacare "works" IMO if it reduces spending per capita on HC, reduces the AVERAGE premium, increases % of Americans covered, maintains or improves the scope of coverage, and maintains or improves the quality of medical treatment.

I expect more than just that. Eventually I expect "Swiss-like" numbers (or better) but even if it improves on those metrics from what we've had until now then it's "working."


How about you? What goals would Obamacare have to reach for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

peacepipe
10-27-2013, 01:55 PM
Report coming out stating 16 million people figure to lose their healthcare in the next year and will need to sign up for more expensive coverage because of Obamacare. It just keeps getting better.

where is this so called report?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-27-2013, 05:45 PM
<iframe src="http://embed.newsinc.com/Single/iframe.html?WID=1&VID=25299723&freewheel=69016&sitesection=breitbartprivate&width=640&height=480" height="480" width="640" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"></iframe>

BroncoBeavis
10-28-2013, 01:54 PM
OK, Obamacare "works" IMO if it reduces spending per capita on HC, reduces the AVERAGE premium, increases % of Americans covered, maintains or improves the scope of coverage, and maintains or improves the quality of medical treatment.

I expect more than just that. Eventually I expect "Swiss-like" numbers (or better) but even if it improves on those metrics from what we've had until now then it's "working."


How about you? What goals would Obamacare have to reach for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

You're going to be disappointed. And it's by design.

The premise (even if it was working) of the program is this: If you're middle class and healthy, you're going to pay more out of pocket for healthcare than ever before. Because government.

It doesn't work in the long run. Because the amount you'd need to fine people to get them to comply is too politically unpalatable. Subsidies were supposed to take some of the edge off. But at the same time, things had to score superficially cheap back in 2010 to lube this up for passage. So the subsidies budgeted for won't be nearly enough.

Regardless, even if there were more subsidies, this does nothing to make healthcare in general affordable. It only makes the market itself worse.

The Lone Bolt
10-28-2013, 03:14 PM
You're going to be disappointed. And it's by design.

The premise (even if it was working) of the program is this: If you're middle class and healthy, you're going to pay more out of pocket for healthcare than ever before. Because government.

It doesn't work in the long run. Because the amount you'd need to fine people to get them to comply is too politically unpalatable. Subsidies were supposed to take some of the edge off. But at the same time, things had to score superficially cheap back in 2010 to lube this up for passage. So the subsidies budgeted for won't be nearly enough.

Regardless, even if there were more subsidies, this does nothing to make healthcare in general affordable. It only makes the market itself worse.

I've already shown you several aspects of Obamacare designed to lower the cost of HC. You've ignored it and similar evidence posted here. Why?

And care to answer my question? Here it is again:

What goals would Obamacare have to reach for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 03:18 PM
https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/995886_10151773014284482_784604269_n.jpg

BroncoBeavis
10-28-2013, 03:22 PM
I've already shown you several aspects of Obamacare designed to lower the cost of HC. You've ignored it and similar evidence posted here. Why?

And care to answer my question? Here it is again:

Cost in general? Or cost to a certain favored subset of consumers? Shifting some money around among political winners and losers does not lower market costs.

The Lone Bolt
10-28-2013, 03:58 PM
Cost in general? Or cost to a certain favored subset of consumers? Shifting some money around among political winners and losers does not lower market costs.

Read the linked articles in this post: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3949553&postcount=70

It's not "cost shifting" so you can officially drop that baloney. And how about answering my question? :welcome:

BroncoBeavis
10-28-2013, 08:18 PM
Read the linked articles in this post: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3949553&postcount=70

It's not "cost shifting" so you can officially drop that baloney. And how about answering my question? :welcome:

Your article makes the fundamental mistake of equating the availability of insurance with 'affordability'

What's undeniable is that healthy people who already had insurance will not receive more affordable insurance. Their insurance will be less affordable so that sick people whose insurance used to be more expensive can be cheaper.

As for all of the pipedreamery about insurance exchange competition and whatnot, it's a false issue. The vast majority of increase in health care expenditures isn't because of health insurer profit. It's because of the health care costs they pay on your behalf. Because when they do so, you don't give a damn what your doctor or hospital charges you.

ant1999e
10-28-2013, 08:22 PM
<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/123696" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2013/10/25/cbs-horror-story-discredits-obamas-reassuring-phrase-about-keeping-he

The Lone Bolt
10-28-2013, 09:22 PM
Your article makes the fundamental mistake of equating the availability of insurance with 'affordability'

No it doesn't.

What's undeniable is that healthy people who already had insurance will not receive more affordable insurance. Their insurance will be less affordable so that sick people whose insurance used to be more expensive can be cheaper.


This is not the case for every healthy person under Obamacare and you know it.

As for all of the pipedreamery about insurance exchange competition and whatnot, it's a false issue. The vast majority of increase in health care expenditures isn't because of health insurer profit. It's because of the health care costs they pay on your behalf. Because when they do so, you don't give a damn what your doctor or hospital charges you.

So you didn't read the articles (particularly the second one) or you didn't understand what they said. Figures.

And still no answer to my question.

ant1999e
10-28-2013, 09:53 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-knew-millions-wouldn-t-be-able-to-keep-insurance--report-222249311.html

According to NBC News, approximately 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million Americans who buy their health insurance individually should expect to receive a cancellation letter over the next year "because their existing policies donít meet the standards mandated by the new health care law."

This could result in millions of Americans being forced to purchase different policies, potentially at higher premiums.

Top 5 Product Launch FailuresPlay video."Top 5 Product Launch Failures
So how did the Obama administration know the cancellations would be coming?
cont...

ant1999e
10-28-2013, 10:32 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Tv-uFnjha1I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You lie!!!

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 09:55 AM
When I was growing up, both sides of the aisle wanted the government to work. In fact, Americans in general took a grim pride in the fact that even with the problems our government had, and the complaints we had, it was still the best government in the world. Now, one side still is trying to make it work and the other side is trying to destroy it, taking every opportunity to gleefully tear it down.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 10:38 AM
This is not the case for every healthy person under Obamacare and you know it.

For anyone with a clean 'preexisting conditions' slate, pretty much all of their costs will go up for similar levels of coverage (assuming that level of coverage is still allowed by the king)

That may be offset some by subsidies for the poorer ones. But contrary to popular Progressive belief Subsidized != Cheaper


So you didn't read the articles (particularly the second one) or you didn't understand what they said. Figures.

And still no answer to my question.

Sorry man. You're trying to argue to someone who believes over-insurance is the main problem that more insurance is going to solve everything.

It's not that I don't understand. It's that you don't understand what perspective you're arguing with.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 10:41 AM
When I was growing up, both sides of the aisle wanted the government to work. In fact, Americans in general took a grim pride in the fact that even with the problems our government had, and the complaints we had, it was still the best government in the world. Now, one side still is trying to make it work and the other side is trying to destroy it, taking every opportunity to gleefully tear it down.

"One way to make sure crime doesn't pay would be to let the government run it."

"I hope we have once again reminded people that man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: as government expands, liberty contracts."

Maybe we grew up at different times. :)

cutthemdown
10-29-2013, 10:42 AM
I have a friend who has lots of money but very low income. I wonder if he will get the cheap subsidy? How does that work? Does anyone know if it has only to do with income? He got a ton of money when he was younger and hasn't worked since he was about 30. I was telling him he may be able to drop his expensive insurance and go on medical lol.

cutthemdown
10-29-2013, 10:45 AM
The new law is good for people already sick, no doubt about that IMO. I want it to work it would be nice if eeryone had good medical care. I just seriously doubt the govt ability to pay for it all. At what point do we start fighting to get services? Only time will tell but in the meantime I agree with liberals its time to shut up and just see how it works. If at some point you rule govt and its an umpopular program then shut it down. But trying to do it from the minority spot is getting them nothing.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 10:48 AM
I have a friend who has lots of money but very low income. I wonder if he will get the cheap subsidy? How does that work? Does anyone know if it has only to do with income? He got a ton of money when he was younger and hasn't worked since he was about 30. I was telling him he may be able to drop his expensive insurance and go on medical lol.

Yep. If he signs up, you and I will be subsidizing his coverage.

In many cases, middle class schlubs will probably be forking out taxes to pay for cheap health care for millionaires.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/financialfinesse/2012/07/03/surprising-ways-the-new-health-care-plan-can-speed-up-your-financial-independence-day/

Hereís another interesting part. For most of the non-elderly, your assets will not affect your eligibility for either of these programs. This means that a couple can have an $800k home with no mortgage, 2 luxury cars and a $600k investment portfolio yielding $20k a year of taxable income and still qualify for free health coverage from Medicaid. So yes, Medicaid will be for millionaires too (as long as you keep your MAGI within the limits).

Gooooooooobamacare!!!! No smiley here, Roh. This is pathetic.

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 11:40 AM
Yep. If he signs up, you and I will be subsidizing his coverage.

In many cases, middle class schlubs will probably be forking out taxes to pay for cheap health care for millionaires.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/financialfinesse/2012/07/03/surprising-ways-the-new-health-care-plan-can-speed-up-your-financial-independence-day/



Gooooooooobamacare!!!! No smiley here, Roh. This is pathetic.

If this is a real problem, it can be addressed through reform.

So care to answer my question now? What results would Obamacare have to produce for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 11:51 AM
If this is a real problem, it can be addressed through reform.

So care to answer my question now? What results would Obamacare have to produce for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

It won't produce any real benefit. But even if it did, I'd never stop calling to end practices that are inherently opposed to individual liberty.

Forcibly selling a 30 year old gay dude prenatal care for the sake of the collective is not a solution. It won't see results, because central planning loses to free markets every time.

But even if you could convince every one of them to go through with it and cover everyone everywhere as the king saw fit, and ensured that hospitals never again saw a dime of bad debt... I would oppose it. Because it's the wrong thing to do.

Think of it like those Commie Mass Calisthenics videos you see here and there. It's probably 'good' for the health of everyone involved. But it would never be worth the toll it takes on individual liberty.

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 12:10 PM
It won't produce any real benefit. But even if it did, I'd never stop calling to end practices that are inherently opposed to individual liberty.

Forcibly selling a 30 year old gay dude prenatal care for the sake of the collective is not a solution. It won't see results, because central planning loses to free markets every time.

But even if you could convince every one of them to go through with it and cover everyone everywhere as the king saw fit, and ensured that hospitals never again saw a dime of bad debt... I would oppose it. Because it's the wrong thing to do.

Think of it like those Commie Mass Calisthenics videos you see here and there. It's probably 'good' for the health of everyone involved. But it would never be worth the toll it takes on individual liberty.

Nice dodge. Let's put aside what you think will or won't happen. I'm speaking hypothetically so that's not an answer.

Hypothetically, what results would Obamacare have to produce in order for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 12:18 PM
It won't produce any real benefit. But even if it did, I'd never stop calling to end practices that are inherently opposed to individual liberty.

Forcibly selling a 30 year old gay dude prenatal care for the sake of the collective is not a solution.

Can be addressed through reform.

But even if you could convince every one of them to go through with it and cover everyone everywhere as the king saw fit, and ensured that hospitals never again saw a dime of bad debt... I would oppose it. Because it's the wrong thing to do.

But allowing uninsured people to stick the rest of us with their ER bills is the "right" thing to do?

Think of it like those Commie Mass Calisthenics videos you see here and there. It's probably 'good' for the health of everyone involved. But it would never be worth the toll it takes on individual liberty.

Yes, Obamacare means forced calisthenics. ::)

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 01:33 PM
Can be addressed through reform.

Ahhh yes. Bandaid the bandaid. Always the answer.


But allowing uninsured people to stick the rest of us with their ER bills is the "right" thing to do?

Again, since when does bad debt for one industry mandate insurance coverage for every consumer in that industry? Should you buy electricity insurance because some other schmuck can't pay their utility bill?

Yes, Obamacare means forced calisthenics. ::)

How do you know it was 'forced' Maybe it was only 'mandated' LOL

Rohirrim
10-29-2013, 01:49 PM
If this is a real problem, it can be addressed through reform.

So care to answer my question now? What results would Obamacare have to produce for you to stop calling for it's full repeal?

The Right doesn't believe in reform. They believe in elimination.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 01:57 PM
The Right doesn't believe in reform. They believe in elimination.

You're right. The best approach to any problem in American life is to ask a large group of Trial Lawyers how to fix it. LOL

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 03:41 PM
Ahhh yes. Bandaid the bandaid. Always the answer.

Ahh yes. Pithy yet meaningless answer that in no way disputes my point.


Again, since when does bad debt for one industry mandate insurance coverage for every consumer in that industry? Should you buy electricity insurance because some other schmuck can't pay their utility bill?

Ah. But you appeared to be objecting to individual mandate on moral grounds. I was asking about your moral stance regarding people who stick the rest of us with their ER bill. Is it "right"?

And what results does Obamacare have to produce for you to stop calling for it's complete repeal?

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 03:58 PM
Ahh yes. Pithy yet meaningless answer that in no way disputes my point.

It's pretty hilarious that after Dems locked Republicans out of the room, then locked out amendment and bypassed the filibuster to get what they wanted, now they want no responsibility for what it is they passed. "Help us rearrange these Deck Chairs on the Titanic, or you're part of the problem!" LOL

Ah. But you appeared to be objecting to individual mandate on moral grounds. I was asking about your moral stance regarding people who stick the rest of us with their ER bill. Is it "right"?

So your moral solution for implicit redistribution is explicit redistribution. Brilliant! LOL

And what results does Obamacare have to produce for you to stop calling for it's complete repeal?

It has to stop attempting to force people to buy coverage they don't want or need. Oh and give the millions who were promised they'd be able to keep the plans they liked, as they were promised.

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 04:14 PM
It's pretty hilarious that after Dems locked Republicans out of the room, then locked out amendment and bypassed the filibuster to get what they wanted, now they want no responsibility for what it is they passed. "Help us rearrange these Deck Chairs on the Titanic, or you're part of the problem!" LOL

Still not a rational argument that the problems you have pointed out cannot be addressed through reform. You are really bad at this debating thing.


So your moral solution for implicit redistribution is explicit redistribution. Brilliant! LOL



It has to stop attempting to force people to buy coverage they don't want or need. Oh and give the millions who were promised they'd be able to keep the plans they liked, as they were promised.

So you have a moral issue with people being forced to buy insurance that in your opinion they don't need but have no moral issue with people being forced to pay for the ER care of the uninsured, is that right?

See here's the issue that you conservatives can't seem to wrap you brains around: we're being forced to pay one way or the other. The smart way is to require everybody to have insurance so they don't rack up ER bills they can't pay (or better yet, see a doctor long before they need ER treatment). But sometimes it's like trying to explain calculus to a chimp. Sigh.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 04:37 PM
Still not a rational argument that the problems you have pointed out cannot be addressed through reform. You are really bad at this debating thing.

Is there anything that can't be addressed by 'reform?' Just curious. We'll touch on this later.

So you have a moral issue with people being forced to buy insurance that in your opinion they don't need but have no moral issue with people being forced to pay for the ER care of the uninsured, is that right?

Someone stiffed my mechanic. Therefore everyone including myself should be forced to buy extended warranties. Brilliant!

It's possible to have an issue with both. Not sure if you're aware but bad things happen. And government more often than not can't do anything about it.

Here's the basic functional thinking behind where you're going:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/john-edwards-vows-to-end-all-bad-things-by-2011,2235/

If only your dream candidate had gotten his chance! LOL

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 05:30 PM
Is there anything that can't be addressed by 'reform?' Just curious. We'll touch on this later.

Sure there are. But you and the rest of the "full repeal" crowd have come up with no examples of problems with Obamacare that can't be addressed through reform (without making stuff up).

Someone stiffed my mechanic. Therefore everyone including myself should be forced to buy extended warranties. Brilliant!

Well if your mechanic was required to service anybody who asked for it, whether they could pay or not, then maybe that is the answer.

Oh wait, he isn't? False analogy then.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 05:41 PM
Sure there are. But you and the rest of the "full repeal" crowd have come up with no examples of problems with Obamacare that can't be addressed through reform (without making stuff up).

You can't reform your way out of bad debt with an insurance mandate. There will still be 10's of millions of people without insurance who will rack up health care bills. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Well if your mechanic was required to service anybody who asked for it, whether they could pay or not, then maybe that is the answer.

Oh wait, he isn't? False analogy then.

Unlike ER's (and like almost everyone else) he's not really provided any mechanism to tell the difference between those who can pay and those who can't.

So again, you're back to arguing that Healthcare should be the one favored special interest that government should hold exempt from bad debt issues?

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 05:51 PM
You can't reform your way out of bad debt with an insurance mandate. There will still be 10's of millions of people without insurance who will rack up health care bills. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Perfect example of making stuff up. You don't know how many people will be uninsured.


Unlike ER's (and like almost everyone else) he's not really provided any mechanism to tell the difference between those who can pay and those who can't.

So again, you're back to arguing that Healthcare should be the one favored special interest that government should hold exempt from bad debt issues?

But if somebody shows up asking for him to fix their car he can tell them no. Hospital ERs can't. If somebody who stiffed him before comes back for more service he can say no. Hospital ERs can't. If he just wants to serve repeat customers he knows will pay he can. Hospital ERs can't. Still a BS analogy.

As long as the government requires service then yes, we should make sure we do it the smart way by requiring everybody to be covered for it.

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 05:57 PM
BTW BBII, do you also support abolishing mandatory car insurance?

ant1999e
10-29-2013, 06:12 PM
BTW BBII, do you also support abolishing mandatory car insurance?

Weak argument that's been defeated over and over. :clown:

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 06:14 PM
Weak argument that's been defeated over and over. :clown:

His logic applies to mandatory car insurance also, so it's a valid question.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 06:21 PM
Perfect example of making stuff up. You don't know how many people will be uninsured.

Apparently neither does the CBO.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/07/obamacare-leaves-millions-uninsured-heres-who-they-are/

At the end of the day, especially with this fiasco, those numbers are probably hopelessly optimistic.

Is your war on hospital bad debt finally going to turn these 30 million uninsured freeloaders away to die alone? LOL


But if somebody shows up asking for him to fix their car he can tell them no. Hospital ERs can't. If somebody who stiffed him before comes back for more service he can say no. Hospital ERs can't. If he just wants to serve repeat customers he knows will pay he can. Hospital ERs can't. Still a BS analogy.

As long as the government requires service then yes, we should make sure we do it the smart way by requiring everybody to be covered for it.

You're right. It was dumb of the government to mandate how ERs should treat the uninsured without any kind of offer of compensation. Bad Government!

Regardless, forcing this cash-strapped demographic into big monthly payments for plans with $12,000+ deductibles and 40% copays is obviously going to completely assure that your hospital always gets paid. LOL

You can't make this kind of fail up.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 06:29 PM
His logic applies to mandatory car insurance also, so it's a valid question.

Does my liability-only coverage cover what I cost society when I'm disabled in an accident that was my fault?

News flash. If I'm hurt in an accident, my 'mandated' coverage won't pay for a dime of anything. It only covers damage I'll likely do to other people's property at some point.

Oh and I also agree to those terms when I ask to drive on public roads. So your analogy is really pretty pointless.

Unless I guess you tell me Obamacare is just the entry price for breathing American air.

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 06:39 PM
Does my liability-only coverage cover what I cost society when I'm disabled in an accident that was my fault?

News flash. If I'm hurt in an accident, my 'mandated' coverage won't pay for a dime of anything. It only covers damage I'll likely do to other people's property at some point.

And if you're not insured then somebody else pays for the damage you did. You pass on the cost by not being insured. Just like you pass on the cost by stiffing your mechanic. Ergo nobody should be required to have car insurance, right? It's just like stiffing your mechanic.

Oh and I also agree to those terms when I ask to drive on public roads. So your analogy is really pretty pointless.

Unless I guess you tell me Obamacare is just the entry price for breathing American air.

No but it is the price for accessing medical care. You can get into an accident in your car just by driving it. You risk that everytime you're on the road. You can also get sick or injured at any time just by living your life. You risk that every day just by being alive. And when you do you will require medical care. So the analogy seems pretty valid to me.

So do you oppose mandatory car insurance? Isn't it also "wrong"?

W*GS
10-29-2013, 07:01 PM
The problem with the thread title is that the "about Obamacare" is superfluous.

broncocalijohn
10-29-2013, 08:35 PM
And if you're not insured then somebody else pays for the damage you did. You pass on the cost by not being insured. Just like you pass on the cost by stiffing your mechanic. Ergo nobody should be required to have car insurance, right? It's just like stiffing your mechanic.



No but it is the price for accessing medical care. You can get into an accident in your car just by driving it. You risk that everytime you're on the road. You can also get sick or injured at any time just by living your life. You risk that every day just by being alive. And when you do you will require medical care. So the analogy seems pretty valid to me.

So do you oppose mandatory car insurance? Isn't it also "wrong"?

Maybe the question should be "Should the government take over Car Insurance?"

I wonder what the liberals would say about that?

The Lone Bolt
10-29-2013, 08:51 PM
Maybe the question should be "Should the government take over Car Insurance?"

I wonder what the liberals would say about that?

You mean like requiring all drivers to purchase it and requiring standard minimum coverage?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 09:04 PM
You mean like requiring all drivers to purchase it and requiring standard minimum coverage?

Big difference. Nobody has to drive.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 10:00 PM
You mean like requiring all drivers to purchase it and requiring standard minimum coverage?

Standard minimum coverage that doesn't include covering yourself? How is that analogous to requiring insurance that covers ONLY yourself.

BroncoBeavis
10-29-2013, 10:08 PM
<iframe src="http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut/player?layout=&amp;title_height=24" width="416" height="322" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

Buh buh buh. Sean Hannity!!! LOL

TonyR
11-02-2013, 09:56 AM
Speaking of Fox News...

Fox News has fallen out of favor with Republicans after two years of untouched supremacy as the partyís brand of choice across any and every medium, according to a recent YouGov survey. YouGov measures which brands are preferred by each party (Republicans, Democrats, Independents) by adding and subtracting negative feedback on a 100 to -100 scale. In 2011, Fox News led all brands [among Republicans] with 68 support points, a full 5 points ahead of the rest. In 2012, Fox News led with 64.5 support points, 1.7 points above the rest. This year? In 2013, Fox News didnít even make the top 10.http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/10/republicans-have-officially-fallen-out-love-fox-news/71098/

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-02-2013, 10:42 AM
https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1390702_10151844068577740_233300994_n.jpg

barryr
11-03-2013, 07:16 AM
People are having to pay higher premiums for things they won't ever use. Women past menopause need maternity coverage? People with no children needing pediatric coverage? This is just insane and beyond ridiculous. But no surprise, a government program that is not well thought out and rushed and pushed onto people and "we'll try to fix it later" routine. Typical.

Rohirrim
11-03-2013, 07:25 AM
Speaking of Fox News...

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/10/republicans-have-officially-fallen-out-love-fox-news/71098/

You mean Fox is no longer fascist enough for the mouth breathers and secessionists? Ha!

Rohirrim
11-03-2013, 07:26 AM
People are having to pay higher premiums for things they won't ever use. Women past menopause need maternity coverage? People with no children needing pediatric coverage? This is just insane and beyond ridiculous. But no surprise, a government program that is not well thought out and rushed and pushed onto people and "we'll try to fix it later" routine. Typical.

Yep. Reminds me of the Iraq War. :puff: