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View Full Version : Someone should be fired over Obamacare rollout


UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-17-2013, 02:49 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/iDg3mOgcBgE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL Hilarious!:wave::yayaya::~ohyah!::thumbs:

Lets start with B.H.O. :D

Jetmeck
10-17-2013, 03:06 PM
wHOMEVER DESIGNED THAT WEBSITE SHOULD BE FIRED............FOR REAL

Bad website however does not equate to bad policy just cause the far right

believes that ignorance.

I am in no way a conspiracy theorist like some of you clown with Bengazi and IRS and all the other made up stuff...........however

I wouldn't doubt somebody is screwing with that site on purpose.

They will cost us 24 billion so the right is capable of anything to

get their way................

BroncoBeavis
10-17-2013, 04:10 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/17/health-exchange-week-three-start-over/2995989/

WASHINGTON — The federal health care exchange was built using 10-year-old technology that may require constant fixes and updates for the next six months and the eventual overhaul of the entire system, technology experts told USA TODAY.

LOL

Oh and then

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/obamacare-aca-website-broken-98412_Page2.html#ixzz2hzDGm3vm

In general, Americans have until the end of March to enroll in a 2014 Obamacare plan, but to avoid a tax penalty, they’ll have to sign up by mid-February. This quirk, unearthed by industry observers, appears to have gone previously unnoticed by the administration.

“The IRS didn’t know that,” said Jackson Hewitt Vice President Brian Haile, who recently brought the issue to the administration’s attention.

Not only did they have to pass it to find out what was in it. They also had to completely bumble**** the opening so they could have things explained to them by outside accountants.

Ladies and Gentlemen.... I give you your Federal Government. LOL

Requiem
10-17-2013, 05:17 PM
Really? No software or user interface is going to be 100% at launch.

Name one health care solutions provider that has their websites and servers running at 100% efficiency.

Hint: There are none.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-17-2013, 06:21 PM
Really? No software or user interface is going to be 100% at launch.

Name one health care solutions provider that has their websites and servers running at 100% efficiency.

Hint: There are none.

NAME ONE WHERE WE ARE FORCED UNDER THREAT OF LAW TO BUY? DUMBA$$

Requiem
10-17-2013, 06:44 PM
NAME ONE WHERE WE ARE FORCED UNDER THREAT OF LAW TO BUY? DUMBA$$

If you have a job and insurance, you need not worry.

DenverBrit
10-17-2013, 07:02 PM
Which 'dumbasses' decided to grandstand and take away the media attention from the ACA rollout??

Talk about a blunder of epic proportions, once again demonstrating that ideological simpletons are devoid of political savvy and 'common sense.'

Well done, Trogs!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-17-2013, 07:14 PM
If you have a job and insurance, you need not worry.

Wow! What a great reason to enslave people to the government.:thumbs:

Requiem
10-17-2013, 07:21 PM
Wow! What a great reason to enslave people to the government.:thumbs:

Your IQ likely tops out at 90, you need all the help you can get.

ant1999e
10-17-2013, 07:28 PM
wHOMEVER DESIGNED THAT WEBSITE SHOULD BE FIRED............FOR REAL

Bad website however does not equate to bad policy just cause the far right

believes that ignorance.

I am in no way a conspiracy theorist like some of you clown with Bengazi and IRS and all the other made up stuff...........however

I wouldn't doubt somebody is screwing with that site on purpose.

They will cost us 24 billion so the right is capable of anything to

get their way................

So he only believes in "conspiracies" when they suit his needs. What an assclown.

BroncoBeavis
10-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Which 'dumbasses' decided to grandstand and take away the media attention from the ACA rollout??

Talk about a blunder of epic proportions, once again demonstrating that ideological simpletons are devoid of political savvy and 'common sense.'

Well done, Trogs!

You act like JoeBi's gonna have all these problems ironed out next week or something. This is a multilayered story of government ineptitude that's going to string out for months.

BroncoBeavis
10-17-2013, 10:37 PM
Really? No software or user interface is going to be 100% at launch.

Name one health care solutions provider that has their websites and servers running at 100% efficiency.

Hint: There are none.

Name one that only started testing it a few days before launch, watched it crash and burn and then went ahead and launched it anyway.

Arkie
10-17-2013, 11:04 PM
I am in no way a conspiracy theorist like some of you clown with Bengazi and IRS and all the other made up stuff...........however

I wouldn't doubt somebody is screwing with that site on purpose.

They will cost us 24 billion so the right is capable of anything to

get their way................

I don't always believe in conspiracy theories...
https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQC1TwixH2PIWQXo&w=155&h=114&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FA_QOQLzC MAAvGQf.jpg
...but when I do, it's a right-wing conspiracy!

DenverBrit
10-18-2013, 09:27 AM
You act like JoeBi's gonna have all these problems ironed out next week or something. This is a multilayered story of government ineptitude that's going to string out for months.

Deflect all you want.

That doesn't change the stupidity we have just witnessed from the extremists polluting the GOP.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 09:33 AM
Deflect all you want.

That doesn't change the stupidity we have just witnessed from the extremists polluting the GOP.

It's not a deflection to point out that Stupidity in Federal Government is pretty much universal.

Only difference is one side keeps shouting for "More, More, Mo-oo-ore" (in a Rebel Yell) :)

B-Large
10-18-2013, 09:40 AM
Wow! What a great reason to enslave people to the government.:thumbs:

Enslaved....they can pay the penalty, after have how do to see slave status?

But I will agree, if I were BHO, id make heads roll, and roll fast...

Miss I.
10-18-2013, 09:41 AM
Yes the system had problems. Guess who was on furlough when the system kept crashing? Most IT in the USG was furloughed when they launched because evidently IT is non-exempt. They kept the bare minimum on staff. With all agencies back up and the non-exempt back there should be some improvement, but even with that, I wouldn't expect the launch of a system this large to run smoothly at the get up. Our agency has systems of this nature and in general it's like Microsoft Windows, the first iterations blows a bit, then in about a year it will patch it enough to work and a full on better version will be released. You should also realize that Government IT folks don't make anything like private industry and employees are limited in how many hours they can work since they limited overtime and other efforts and as a result quality does suffer or at least the time between improvements is lagging. Government has emphasize quality and cost over ontime delivery for sometime now and it does have impacts, but assuming they actually did an evaluation of the long term costs of this strategy, the likelihood is that this would cost less over the long term, while the short term would result in some delays.

As for the threat of failure to register, I already have healthcare that I pay for so it's not an issue, but the one draw back for most federal employees is that now the healthcare we jointly paid for with our employers (our federal agencies) is considered taxable income. Any money the USG puts toward our healthinsurance is now taxed. However I am okay with that because its still better than if I had to pay for it on my own due to my prexisisting condidtions (on my own a health care policy would cost me $650 a month or more, now it costs me about $150 and now the tax on the portion the government pays). And honestly if my taxed income will help someone who works two minimum wage jobs get covered for healthcare I am good with that.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 09:48 AM
Yes the system had problems. Guess who was on furlough when the system kept crashing? Most IT in the USG was furloughed when they launched because evidently IT is non-exempt.

While this may be true where you work, the Obamacare rollout has been pretty much fully staffed because it was categorized as mandatory.

http://www.govexec.com/management/2013/10/how-hhs-rolled-out-obamacare-amid-shutdown/71308/

And even before the shutdown, the project was many times over its budget. And that budget will only explode even further while CMS mission control tries to learn on-the-fly what it was they were supposed to be doing for the last 3 years.

Requiem
10-18-2013, 10:00 AM
Name one that only started testing it a few days before launch, watched it crash and burn and then went ahead and launched it anyway.

Interesting to see you claim that they used ten year technology on this, when it certainly isn't the case.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 10:03 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/obamacare-train-wreck_n_4118041.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

Under these circumstances, the lion's share of the people who do whatever is necessary to sign up through HealthCare.gov are likely to be the sickest and most expensive to cover because they have the greatest need, Laszewski said. That would make the pool of people covered very costly, causing health insurers to lose money and likely rethink whether they want to participate in the exchanges, he said. "The fundamental threat to Obamacare is we don't get enough healthy people in the pool to keep the rates reasonable, and they are in grave danger of that problem," he said.

If these problems persist longer -- weeks, months, a whole year -- the entire Obamacare project falls apart, Laszewski said: "It's a holy **** moment."

Wow.

Of course my favorite part was

For Obama and the Democrats who've stood behind Obamacare during four years of relentless attacks from Republicans -- including a face-off that led to a 16-day government shutdown and a threat of U.S. default -- failure of this magnitude would discredit a core premise of this presidency, that government can do big things to improve Americans' lives.

LOL

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 10:08 AM
Interesting to see you claim that they used ten year technology on this, when it certainly isn't the case.

That wasn't me who said that. It was the CTO of Rackspace, a Billion dollar hosting company.

Where is Qualifications Inspector Houghtam when I need him? :)

Requiem
10-18-2013, 10:10 AM
That wasn't me who said that. It was the CTO of Rackspace, a Billion dollar hosting company.

Where is Qualifications Inspector Houghtam when I need him? :)

Yeah, but you quoted it as truth. Most technology associated with this has been in development the past five years. Continuously growing and changing.

DenverBrit
10-18-2013, 10:30 AM
It's not a deflection to point out that Stupidity in Federal Government is pretty much universal.

Only difference is one side keeps shouting for "More, More, Mo-oo-ore" (in a Rebel Yell) :)

Federal government needs no help in wasting taxpayer's dollars.

Shutting down the government achieved what exactly? Job losses and and estimated $20 plus billion in tax dollars wasted.

Not exactly 'fiscal conservatism,' and judging by his comments, Cruz will be back with more of the same when the debt ceiling again needs lifting.

Both parties need to get to work and pass a budget and push the extremism out of our affairs.

elsid13
10-18-2013, 10:39 AM
Yeah, but you quoted it as truth. Most technology associated with this has been in development the past five years. Continuously growing and changing.


When you are developing a major enterprise application like this, you have to freeze the baseline so you can do effective development and actually produce a product. At some point you aren't using latest and greatest code base/technologies. There is a lot Monday Morning QBing going on here from Congress, the media and private sector "tech" folks that don't do this for living and actually are clueless on how this process works.

I am not surprised that they are struggling or price has increased, it follow all the checkpoints for screwed up development program. But that being said, there is now a product and they will be able to scale it up and improve it as they move forward.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 10:50 AM
Yeah, but you quoted it as truth. Most technology associated with this has been in development the past five years. Continuously growing and changing.

I quoted expert opinion as reported by a major US newspaper. And said literally nothing about it. I can see why you want to manufacture an argument here. But there really isn't one to be had.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 10:56 AM
Federal government needs no help in wasting taxpayer's dollars.

Shutting down the government achieved what exactly? Job losses and and estimated $20 plus billion in tax dollars wasted.

And don't forget about all those White House garden veggies that just couldn't be harvested without non-exempt federal help. :)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/10/15/234747012/among-the-shutdown-victims-the-white-house-kitchen-garden

The horror! The Queen's Garden Lacked Tending! And for WHAT?!?! LOL

The people's relationship with their government is broken. It will have to get much much uglier than this last episode in order to be corrected.

Fedaykin
10-18-2013, 11:11 AM
That wasn't me who said that. It was the CTO of Rackspace, a Billion dollar hosting company.

Where is Qualifications Inspector Houghtam when I need him? :)

LMAO, that whole article was FOS. Every "tech expert" they talked about admitted they haven't actually seen the application, yet "believed" it "had" to be 10 year old tech. And the only evidence they provide is that it looks "Web 1.0" from the 90s instead of "Web 2.0" enough to them. Which is ridiculous.

Experts don't behave that way.

Of course, a cursory glance tells me they are using JQuery, CSS layout, some unknown asynchronous framework (including a silly amount of client side rendering), SAML for distributed SSO, and a host of other perfectly "modern" tools and libraries that can be determined by inspecting the external interface. In other words, a pretty typical "Web 2.0" buzzword compliant external interface.

Now, it's possible the back end is some archaic monstrosity, but no one other than the dev group actually knows what they are doing in the back end.

And, the real gem is the idiotic comment about caching. Doesn't matter if you are "Web 2.0" buzzword compliant, caching issues can happen. If you have a javascript file that has a bug and also has a cache coherence issue in the browser, you'll have to clear your cache to get the client to download the patched version.

Looking at it, the problem isn't the technology they are using, the problem is pretty clearly management and timetable.

(btw, I design and build web applications for a living)

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 11:27 AM
LMAO, that whole article was FOS. Every "tech expert" they talked about admitted they haven't actually seen the application, yet "believed" it "had" to be 10 year old tech.

Experts don't behave that way.

Of course, a cursory glance tells me they are using JQuery, CSS layout, some unknown asynchronous framework (including a silly amount of client side rendering), SAML for distributed SSO, and a host of other perfectly "modern" tools and libraries that can be determined by inspecting the external interface.

And, the real gem is the idiotic comment about caching. Doesn't matter if you are "Web 2.0" buzzword compliant, caching issues can happen. If you have a javascript file that has a bug and also has a cache coherence issue in the browser, you'll have to clear your cache to get the client to download the patched version.

Looking at it, the problem isn't the technology they are using, the problem is pretty clearly management and timetable.

(btw, I design and build web applications for a living)

I'm guessing you're only talking about the front-end, since the back-end hasn't been seen by very many people. But as far as the front-end goes you could be right. From history though, I'm pretty sure we can assume that whatever the government contractors wrote on the back end to interface with federal databases and carrier systems is a complete menagerie,

But that's neither here nor there, since it doesn't really matter as far as the problem goes.

You're right in that the worst problem was that the feds put off many really significant decisions until the last possible moment, including the decision to hide plan pricing until registration was successful. Politics often (usually?) bring considerations into projects that are antithetical to good project design.

But that always applies to both the technical and non-technical areas. And this was not at all hard to foresee, considering many have warned about this kind of epic flop for months. Although so far, it's been beyond even the most hardened skeptics' wildest imaginations.

Requiem
10-18-2013, 11:30 AM
I quoted expert opinion as reported by a major US newspaper. And said literally nothing about it. I can see why you want to manufacture an argument here. But there really isn't one to be had.

Yeah, you quoted a guy who was FOS without knowing anything about what was being said. You took his word with it because it aligned with your beliefs on the subject at hand. Next time due your diligence.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 11:39 AM
Yeah, you quoted a guy who was FOS without knowing anything about what was being said. You took his word with it because it aligned with your beliefs on the subject at hand. Next time due your diligence.

No offense, but you and Hough are going to have to duke it out to determine whether Hough's "Law of Infallible Authority" trumps Req's "Principle of Universally Suspect Authority."

I'm so confused. :)

Fedaykin
10-18-2013, 12:14 PM
No offense, but you and Hough are going to have to duke it out to determine whether Hough's "Law of Infallible Authority" trumps Req's "Principle of Universally Suspect Authority."

I'm so confused. :)

It's actually pretty easy. When a supposed authority makes statements that clearly indicate they are completely pulling **** out of their ass, you can safely ignore them.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-18-2013, 12:37 PM
Really? No software or user interface is going to be 100% at launch.

Name one health care solutions provider that has their websites and servers running at 100% efficiency.

Hint: There are none.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1381300_10151726873540896_1421964730_n.jpg

This is what its like. Nimrod.

Raider Bill
10-18-2013, 12:37 PM
I'm no fan of this administration, nor am I a computer expert, but it looks like this was designed pretty poorly.


Truly disastrous architecture calls over 1,000 resources just to load one page
Even though I have only seen the public Javascript code and not the server-side processing code, the Javascript itself is truly disastrous -- on an epic scale.

For example, the Javascript file loaded for each user transfers all error messages, form field messages and front-end error messages from the server to the user's browser repeatedly for each cultural language supported by the system.



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/042428_obamacare_exchange_javascript_critical_erro rs.html##ixzz2i6HDEJcn

Requiem
10-18-2013, 01:02 PM
This is what its like. Nimrod.

Which is hilarious because Apple is ridiculously strict about apps they allow into their marketplace.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 01:12 PM
It's actually pretty easy. When a supposed authority makes statements that clearly indicate they are completely pulling **** out of their ass, you can safely ignore them.

No, I'm told that's not the case. There is no questioning until you have specifically documented your own credentials that mark you more qualified than the source itself.

Thanks be to Houghtam. :)

DenverBrit
10-18-2013, 01:14 PM
And don't forget about all those White House garden veggies that just couldn't be harvested without non-exempt federal help. :)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/10/15/234747012/among-the-shutdown-victims-the-white-house-kitchen-garden

The horror! The Queen's Garden Lacked Tending! And for WHAT?!?! LOL

The people's relationship with their government is broken. It will have to get much much uglier than this last episode in order to be corrected.


Trivialize all you want, it just places you in the Tea Party camp of 'stupid.'

Carry on!! :wave:

ant1999e
10-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Deflect all you want.

That doesn't change the stupidity we have just witnessed from the extremists polluting the GOP.

Who's deflecting? Do you know what the topic of this thread is? Sure isn't the GOP.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 03:26 PM
Who's deflecting? Do you know what the topic of this thread is? Sure isn't the GOP.

He takes his shots where he can.

Not that he has any dog in that fight or anything. LOL

houghtam
10-18-2013, 04:23 PM
No, I'm told that's not the case. There is no questioning until you have specifically documented your own credentials that mark you more qualified than the source itself.

Thanks be to Houghtam. :)

No, he was right. I could just tell you were pulling stuff out of your ass.

:)

Hallowed be My Name.

DenverBrit
10-18-2013, 05:23 PM
Who's deflecting? Do you know what the topic of this thread is? Sure isn't the GOP.

Ok, I wandered off topic a little and asked a related question, never happens here. :P

DenverBrit
10-18-2013, 05:25 PM
He takes his shots where he can.

Not that he has any dog in that fight or anything. LOL

Sure I do, the US economy. It's that simple.

Requiem
10-18-2013, 05:27 PM
No, he was right. I could just tell you were pulling stuff out of your ass.

:)

Hallowed be My Name.

"At the end of the Thomas Gospel, the disciples ask, 'When will the kingdom come?' And Jesus answers, 'The kingdom will not come by expectation. The kingdom of the Father is spread over the earth and men do not see it.'"

Boom. Thomas throws a wrench into BBII favorite historical record.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 10:33 PM
"At the end of the Thomas Gospel, the disciples ask, 'When will the kingdom come?' And Jesus answers, 'The kingdom will not come by expectation. The kingdom of the Father is spread over the earth and men do not see it.'"

Boom. Thomas throws a wrench into BBII favorite historical record.

2000 years from now, people may find and quote Gaff about what happened on 9/11. Should that be as accepted as the mainstream understanding of our day?

The Lone Bolt
10-19-2013, 10:57 AM
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1381300_10151726873540896_1421964730_n.jpg

This is what its like. Nimrod.

Only it isn't. It's "apps" you do need and only think you don't. And if you don't pay for them and eventually use them anyway somebody else is forced to pay.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-21-2013, 12:19 PM
Really? No software or user interface is going to be 100% at launch.

Name one health care solutions provider that has their websites and servers running at 100% efficiency.

Hint: There are none.
Yeah, kinda like that!
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1381995_660542757300098_139448222_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-21-2013, 12:32 PM
I wonder where you guys get your news now? The bottom of the dumpster behind the white house?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/H1zb_WII5b8?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL LOL LOL

Arkie
10-21-2013, 04:00 PM
Only it isn't. It's "apps" you do need and only think you don't. And if you don't pay for them and eventually use them anyway somebody else is forced to pay.

Somebody else is coerced.

Fedaykin
10-21-2013, 04:19 PM
Somebody else is coerced.

The only way an insurance model works is if everyone who *might* need it (which in the case of health care, is effectively 100%) pays premiums. And everyone pays for other people's health care one way or the other.

This is, of course, why treating health care as an optional, insurable thing is completely insane. Everyone will need health care; including non-trivial care.

The only way treating health care as an optional, insurable thing makes any sense whatsoever is if we are willing to just let people (including lots and lots of children) suffer and/or die. Are you willing to do that?

Drunken.Broncoholic2
10-21-2013, 05:12 PM
Asking Verizon to fix their problems.

They can't even get their websites fixed and we expect them to run Americas health care?

Drunken.Broncoholic2
10-21-2013, 05:13 PM
Yeah, kinda like that!
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1381995_660542757300098_139448222_n.jpg

Rep

Arkie
10-21-2013, 07:13 PM
The only way an insurance model works is if everyone who *might* need it (which in the case of health care, is effectively 100%) pays premiums. And everyone pays for other people's health care one way or the other.


And everyone pays for other people's health care voluntarily or through coercion.

Pony Boy
10-21-2013, 08:48 PM
You're right in that the worst problem was that the feds put off many really significant decisions until the last possible moment, including the decision to hide plan pricing until registration was successful.

Yes, "You must add this item to your shopping cart to see the unbelievable low price" .......Hilarious!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-21-2013, 09:10 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8aF9LxlmJTU?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
10-21-2013, 10:03 PM
Ted Cruz says the reason the website doesn't work is because it's being run by "...the Nigerian e-mail scammers." http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/21/republican-sen-ted-cruz-blasts-party-bosses-in-homecoming-rally/?hpt=hp_t2

bowtown
10-21-2013, 10:07 PM
Cruz is the definition of a psychopath.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-21-2013, 10:48 PM
Ted Cruz says the reason the website doesn't work is because it's being run by "...the Nigerian e-mail scammers." http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/21/republican-sen-ted-cruz-blasts-party-bosses-in-homecoming-rally/?hpt=hp_t2

Realllllllllllllyyyyyyyy? Where did you find this interesting quote? MSNBC, CNN Aljazerra?

ant1999e
10-22-2013, 12:45 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2Qtx_ZcHOjw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
:giggle:

Ol#7
10-22-2013, 01:31 AM
The software code was db2 technology which is a 30 year old technology not built for the web. It should have been written with browser friendly html5. He used a Canadian company CGI that was fired by Canada for their incompetence.

elsid13
10-22-2013, 03:31 AM
The software code was db2 technology which is a 30 year old technology not built for the web. It should have been written with browser friendly html5. He used a Canadian company CGI that was fired by Canada for their incompetence.

Let's get the facts straight.

1. First DB2 is database not a presentation or business logic layer and IBM has redesigned to support Web Operations. It not the best DB but it is industrial standard. They reused code and wrote their own, but it doesn't look like the government paid for EA upfront that are required for operation like this.
2. The CGI that won the competition is NOT a Canadian Company. The CGI America company that won is wholly owned subsidiary, because CGI America bids and win us DoD contracts, the law don't foreign direct control.
3. CGI won competitive acquisition managed by the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR). Past Performance is limited to only work that done in US and rated by CPAR systems. Cost and Technical Capability are usually higher evaluation factors then past performance.
4. Obama wasn't involved in the selection of the vendor.

I love the fact that Politicians and Media type that have no idea about development or deployment are making statements like they understand the technology or the process.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 08:08 AM
And everyone pays for other people's health care voluntarily or through coercion.

No, it's always through coercion. Higher taxes, grossly inflated prices, etc.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 08:31 AM
The software code was db2 technology which is a 30 year old technology not built for the web. It should have been written with browser friendly html5. He used a Canadian company CGI that was fired by Canada for their incompetence.

You know what's worse? They could have built it on Oracle which is 40 Year old technology!!!!

Oh, and "browser friendly HTML5" Hilarious! Do you even know what HTML5 is or are you just parroting something you heard? They are using some parts (the commonly supported ones that are actually useful to their business case) of HTML5, but to claim that HTML5 is "browser friendly" is just silly. Many common browsers *cough*IE*cough* don't even remotely support the full HTML5 spec, which isn't even finalized yet (and, stupidly, never will be by design)! So, to be fully HTML5 buzzword compliant, they would actually be reducing the usability of the site, or having to implement multiple versions of it.

All the morons running around parroting the idiocy of "OMG they're using OOOOOLLLLLD technology" are just showing how easily the ignorant can be fooled.

The problems with that site have exactly nothing to do with using "old" technology.

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 09:04 AM
The only way an insurance model works is if everyone who *might* need it (which in the case of health care, is effectively 100%) pays premiums. And everyone pays for other people's health care one way or the other.

Wrong. The insurance model only works if people who might need it purchase it before they're certain they WILL need it. Obamacare snaps this fundamental and immutable concept in half.

This is, of course, why treating health care as an optional, insurable thing is completely insane. Everyone will need health care; including non-trivial care.

Everyone also needs food and housing. You can't go around insuring everything people need. Because that's not what insurance does.

The only way treating health care as an optional, insurable thing makes any sense whatsoever is if we are willing to just let people (including lots and lots of children) suffer and/or die. Are you willing to do that?

Tens of millions of people will remain uninsured under the "A"CA. Are you going to be willing to let them suffer and die? If not, what exactly did the "A"CA accomplish, other than breaking the first principle I mentioned above?

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 09:07 AM
You know what's worse? They could have built it on Oracle which is 40 Year old technology!!!!

Oh, and "browser friendly HTML5" Hilarious! Do you even know what HTML5 is or are you just parroting something you heard? They are using some parts (the commonly supported ones that are actually useful to their business case) of HTML5, but to claim that HTML5 is "browser friendly" is just silly. Many common browsers *cough*IE*cough* don't even remotely support the full HTML5 spec, which isn't even finalized yet (and, stupidly, never will be by design)! So, to be fully HTML5 buzzword compliant, they would actually be reducing the usability of the site, or having to implement multiple versions of it.

All the morons running around parroting the idiocy of "OMG they're using OOOOOLLLLLD technology" are just showing how easily the ignorant can be fooled.

The problems with that site have exactly nothing to do with using "old" technology.

There's more to this thing than a shiny front-end website. The ugly stuff is guaranteed to be locked in the back. If you've ever looked at the systems CMS uses to this very day, you'd know it to be true.

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 09:13 AM
Yes, "You must add this item to your shopping cart to see the unbelievable low price" .......Hilarious!

Hah. Sad, ain't it.

Truth of the matter is, they don't want you to know how expensive "Affordable" really is.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 09:14 AM
Wrong. The insurance model only works if people who might need it purchase it before they're certain they WILL need it. Obamacare snaps this fundamental and immutable concept in half.


Did you miss the part where I've posted dozens of times that my opinion is treating health care as an insurable thing is idiotic? Hell, even the post you are responding to implies that.



Everyone also needs food and housing. You can't go around insuring everything people need. Because that's not what insurance does.


Unlike health care planning, no on is silly enough to think they don't need food and housing. It's a fundamental problem with human nature; we as a species are very, very bad at planning for the future.


Tens of millions of people will remain uninsured under the "A"CA. Are you going to be willing to let them suffer and die? If not, what exactly did the "A"CA accomplish, other than breaking the first principle I mentioned above?


Nice try, but we have not fundamentally changed the social contract like a purely market driven health care system would.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 09:22 AM
There's more to this thing than a shiny front-end website. The ugly stuff is guaranteed to be locked in the back. If you've ever looked at the systems CMS uses to this very day, you'd know it to be true.

So far I've seen no evidence that the problem is outdated technology. All of the ignoramuses complaining about the tech used are pointing at either the front end, or now the supposed use of DB2. In both cases, the technology being pointed at is actually quite reasonably modern and/or suited to the purpose.

Seriously, when someone says ZOMG they are using DB2 which "is a 30 year old technology not built for the web" then you know they don't have the first damn clue what they are talking about, and are just parroting some other idiot.

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 09:24 AM
Did you miss the part where I've posted dozens of times that my opinion is treating health care as an insurable thing is idiotic? Hell, even the post you are responding to implies that.

You're wrong. Because you think the market can be set aside. But it never is. Regardless it's still tough to reconcile "You can't insure health" with support for a law that says "Insure your health, or pay the price!"


Unlike health care planning, no on is silly enough to think they don't need food and housing. It's a fundamental problem with human nature; we as a species are very, very bad at planning for the future.

Yes, that's a human flaw. As demonstrated best by our federal government. :) "It's hard to plan, so let the Federal Government do it for me." is One... hilarious. And two... at odds with individual liberty.

Nice try, but we have not fundamentally changed the social contract like a purely market driven health care system would.

The social contract should always be a matter of negotiation. Otherwise you're just electing unqualified people to tell everyone what they need all the time.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 09:52 AM
You're wrong. Because you think the market can be set aside. But it never is. Regardless it's still tough to reconcile "You can't insure health" with support for a law that says "Insure your health, or pay the price!"


Quick quiz, what is my position about ACA?


Yes, that's a human flaw. As demonstrated best by our federal government. :) "It's hard to plan, so let the Federal Government do it for me." is One... hilarious. And two... at odds with individual liberty.

The social contract should always be a matter of negotiation. Otherwise you're just electing unqualified people to tell everyone what they need all the time.


More like. "I don't realize I need to plan (or can't), and when I don't I affect others".

When you have a group of people that, though action or inaction (or inability) are harming the whole, you don't think it's indicated for that whole to do something about it?

I'm a pragmatist, not a ideologue. There are basically three choices:

1.) Let people suffer and die and have minimal up front costs.
2.) Keep people from suffering and dying at enormous cost -- what we currently do (only slightly mitigated by the ACA)
3.) Keep people from suffering and dying at a cost somewhere in between. -- what we should to be doing.

#1 is full of personal liberty, and also full of suffering (and also financial costs). I prefer to act against the suffering.

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 10:36 AM
Quick quiz, what is my position about ACA?

Outright defund/repeal? LOL


More like. "I don't realize I need to plan (or can't), and when I don't I affect others".

When you have a group of people that, though action or inaction (or inability) are harming the whole, you don't think it's indicated for that whole to do something about it?

True in every aspect of life. But I've never heard it argued that someone should be forced to buy life insurance because if they die their family might become a burden on the rest of us.


I'm a pragmatist, not a ideologue. There are basically three choices:

1.) Let people suffer and die and have minimal up front costs.
2.) Keep people from suffering and dying at enormous cost -- what we currently do (only slightly mitigated by the ACA)
3.) Keep people from suffering and dying at a cost somewhere in between. -- what we should to be doing.

1. One of the main problems in health care is that people can often suffer and die with either minimal cost or extreme cost. Even at the end of the road, people will make vastly different end-of-life decisions based on whether a third party (say Medicare) is paying the bills, or whether they are.

2. ACA does absolutely nothing to mitigate cost. It works overtime to hide cost. Which is problem #1 with our health care system and the employer-based model today.

3. You're magic-bulleting this point. Yes, cost is pretty much THE problem. But that problem isn't getting solved by obfuscating payment. When the consumer consumes, he needs to CARE what it costs. The provider needs to know he cares what it costs.

Reinstating this cost-conscious relationship will drive costs down. And drive innovation at the same time.

Single payer can only fix prices and enforce quotas. Those are the only tools in its arsenal. It's one size-fits-all and yet still does little to motivate efficiency.

The Lone Bolt
10-22-2013, 12:23 PM
2. ACA does absolutely nothing to mitigate cost. It works overtime to hide cost. Which is problem #1 with our health care system and the employer-based model today.

Six Ways Obamacare Will Lower Your Health Insurance Costs

How is this possible?

Because, the magic of Obamacare is simply basic economics.

Here are six economic reasons why the Affordable Care Act marketplaces reduce premiums.

More Competition. Generous subsidies and an individual mandate create a lucrative pool of formerly uninsured consumers. Insurers will compete with each other to gain market share, driving premium prices down.

Less Adverse Selection. The Achilles’ heel of the individual insurance market is adverse selection. This occurs when one side of a transaction lacks the necessary knowledge to make the transaction. Insurers typically lack precise information about the health profiles of their customers, but they do know the people most likely to buy health insurance are often the sickest. As a result, they raise prices to cover risk, which increases prices for everyone in the market. Obamacare’s individual mandate ends the cycle. Put simply, if everyone is required to buy health insurance, insurers can afford to charge less.

Lower Transaction Costs. Information is a key to market efficiency. For the invisible hand to match supply and demand, consumers must make informed decisions, which has traditionally been quite difficult. In the new marketplaces, insurers are required to present their offerings and benefits in standardized formats. Prices will be clear and simple to compare.

Lower Administrative Costs. Under the ACA, the share of premiums insurers spend on actual medical services, as opposed to administrative costs, will be subject to a floor. If insurers spend less, they are required to rebate the balance to plan participants. Consequently, insurers will have less ability and incentive to pad premiums, creating savings for consumers.

Rate Review. The ACA empowers the HHS and state regulators to review premium increases. Insurers can be required to justify unreasonable increases, which will be made public. Although regulators do not have the power to limit rate increases, public shaming may have the same practical effect.*

Better Quality. Even in the absence of premium reductions, consumers will see savings and an improvement in the quality of coverage. What your premium buys you is more important than its price sticker, and under the ACA, consumers will get bigger bang for their buck. Qualified marketplace plans are required to cover all essential health benefits, including preventive services.

http://tcf.org/blog/detail/six-ways-obamacare-will-lower-your-health-insurance-costs

Obamacare cost-cutting: CNBC explains


A number of provisions of the Affordable Care Act, many of which have already gone into effect, are directly aimed at reducing the growth of health-care spending, which accounts for nearly one-fifth of the overall U.S. economy.

-------------------

The law also encourages hospitals, primary care physicians and other medical providers to join forces in so-called Accountable Care Organizations, whose goal is to coordinate care for their patients and, if they meet certain quality targets such as keeping those people healthy and out of the hospital, get paid more by Medicare.

Obamacare also created the Independent Payment Advisory Board, which is empowered to recommend reductions in Medicare spending, in years in which Medicare per capita costs exceed specific targets including overall medical prices. Those reductions will take effect unless Congress comes up with another reduction that saves the same amount.

Obamacare's provision that insurers' policies cover things such as preventative care for customers is also geared to reducing overall long-term costs. The theory is that people who can obtain preventative care, and actually do with, will be less likely to suffer chronic health conditions that could end up costing much more.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101065202

I think that last paragraph is the most important. Until now, people without health insurance waited until the last minute to get medical attention and then showed up in ERs when their illness was at an advanced stage and required expensive care. Those same folks will now be insured and able to go to a doctor well before their diseases get out of control. Early treatment will lead to cost savings.

cutthemdown
10-22-2013, 12:29 PM
Obama will have to give a delay to the individual mandate. Which will be funny because he shut govt down refusing to give one.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 01:00 PM
Outright defund/repeal? LOL


Try going back and reading what I've written about it..


True in every aspect of life. But I've never heard it argued that someone should be forced to buy life insurance because if they die their family might become a burden on the rest of us.


Should people be forced to carry auto insurance? Why or why not?

And, of course, we do have a social safety net for people who lose the person supporting them so not really sure what point you think you have there.



1. One of the main problems in health care is that people can often suffer and die with either minimal cost or extreme cost. Even at the end of the road, people will make vastly different end-of-life decisions based on whether a third party (say Medicare) is paying the bills, or whether they are.


End of the road isn't the problem. People with chronic illnesses are very, very expensive to treat. How many people with diabetes do you think would say "**** it, i'll just die".


2. ACA does absolutely nothing to mitigate cost. It works overtime to hide cost. Which is problem #1 with our health care system and the employer-based model today.


Yes it does. This has already been addressed dozens of times, see TLB's post for the latest.


3. You're magic-bulleting this point. Yes, cost is pretty much THE problem. But that problem isn't getting solved by obfuscating payment. When the consumer consumes, he needs to CARE what it costs. The provider needs to know he cares what it costs.

Reinstating this cost-conscious relationship will drive costs down. And drive innovation at the same time.

Single payer can only fix prices and enforce quotas. Those are the only tools in its arsenal. It's one size-fits-all and yet still does little to motivate efficiency.

You're trying to apply non-mandatory, non-emergency consumer market principals to something that is not that kind of market. If you cut your finger off, do you comparison shop or find the nearest medical facility regardless of cost?

When you get cancer, do you shop for the cheapest doc, or the one that has the most chance of treating you successfully?

Right now we spend 2x as much as most other first world countries many of whom have single payer and or other types of socialized medicine, so the idea that the only way to reduce cost is to put the cost in front of the "consumer" doesn't even remotely follow the evidence.

Meck77
10-22-2013, 01:13 PM
Obama will have to give a delay to the individual mandate. Which will be funny because he shut govt down refusing to give one.

It's a total joke. My saying the last couple months has been "Be careful what you wish for. The people are getting it!"

I'm going to focus on what's important and that's fishing! :wiggle:


Yeah go out and buy insurance! If you don't you will get fined! Oh never mind the fact you can't buy the expensive garbage! Ha!

BroncoBeavis
10-22-2013, 01:50 PM
Try going back and reading what I've written about it.



Should people be forced to carry auto insurance? Why or why not?

For the privelege of driving on public property, they're asked to carry liability coverage. For damage they're likely (at some point) to inflict on other people's property.

A Health Insurance mandate is like forcing everyone to buy full coverage on all vehicles. Even if you leave it parked in storage. And with basically the same price whether you drive a Ford Fiesta or a Maserati. Because if you happen to get in an accident, you might stiff the body shop on repairs. And body shops hate bad debt as much as everyone else.

I should stop talking because someone somewhere is dreaming up a new federal program. :)

And, of course, we do have a social safety net for people who lose the person supporting them so not really sure what point you think you have there.

We're talking insurance mandates here, not safety nets. Bad luck for me has societal costs across the board. Should all of them be insured?

End of the road isn't the problem. People with chronic illnesses are very, very expensive to treat. How many people with diabetes do you think would say "**** it, i'll just die".

I think you're conflating chronic illness with terminal. To what end, I'm not sure.

You're trying to apply non-mandatory, non-emergency consumer market principals to something that is not that kind of market. If you cut your finger off, do you comparison shop or find the nearest medical facility regardless of cost?

Emergency Care is a pretty insignificant slice of the overall pie. Building a socialized system around this tiny minority of health care dollars is pure folly.

When you get cancer, do you shop for the cheapest doc, or the one that has the most chance of treating you successfully?

Uncle Warren can fly to Switzerland (hypothetically) if need be and spend hundreds of millions of dollars on the world's finest care. Do you think he'd shop around? You bet your ass he would. He'd find the world's best of the best. Do I have a right to that doctor and kind of treatment? Of course not.

Price is ALWAYS a consideration. Whether that makes you comfortable or not. And it's better when it's the consumer's consideration that matters as opposed to some convoluted regulatory preference scheme. At least to the greatest extent possible.

Right now we spend 2x as much as most other first world countries many of whom have single payer and or other types of socialized medicine, so the idea that the only way to reduce cost is to put the cost in front of the "consumer" doesn't even remotely follow the evidence.

Nobody's arguing that socialized systems can reduce costs. But they do so by rationing. Which is great, so long as you don't mind chillin' for a year or so with a bad hip so the feds can make their budget.

The person making those decisions doesn't know you at all. Doesn't really care whether you live or die. Might slightly prefer the latter, since you're kind of a burden once you reach that point, anyway.

As I've said before, I'm not opposed to a low-level Tier of "safety net" care for people without other options. But this idea of putting people struggling to make ends meet on a expensive and still high-deductible federally mandated plan doesn't solve anything.

The fundamental problem is health care is out of control and unaffordable. Insurance is not designed to make that which is unaffordable affordable. It spreads risk. That's all it does. At the well-known expense of higher average costs.

Arkie
10-22-2013, 02:28 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2Qtx_ZcHOjw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
:giggle:

"This country looks like it was poised to turn bluer than a Smurf’s balls after dry humping a bottle of Windex." Hilarious!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-22-2013, 06:16 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1380092_10151734033145896_756761850_n.png

Bronco Yoda
10-22-2013, 09:58 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2Qtx_ZcHOjw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
:giggle:

Hilarious!

Bronco Yoda
10-22-2013, 10:02 PM
Let's be fair now. It did only cost us $400 Million.

Holy ****! $400 mil. ?

cutthemdown
10-22-2013, 11:23 PM
The fact a govt run website was too expensive and still doesn't work is just so indicitive of how the good the federal govt is at running things. They better hope no hacker group decides to screw with them. I doubt they are ready for it.

Rohirrim
10-22-2013, 11:26 PM
The fact a govt run website was too expensive and still doesn't work is just so indicitive of how the good the federal govt is at running things. They better hope no hacker group decides to screw with them. I doubt they are ready for it.

You mean, like the guys who run NORAD?

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 03:00 AM
NORAD isn't run that great. Didn't they take heat a couple times for false nuclear attacks? Some tech loaded the wrong thing into system or something. Also what do they even do but sit around and look for planes that enter our airspace, not exactly something that day to day Americans need. When it comes to things like national defense the govt is best equipped to do it, but even then they screw it up all the time. Using how well Norad ran to say healthcare will be fine is a joke.

houghtam
10-23-2013, 05:37 AM
NORAD isn't run that great. Didn't they take heat a couple times for false nuclear attacks? Some tech loaded the wrong thing into system or something. Also what do they even do but sit around and look for planes that enter our airspace, not exactly something that day to day Americans need. When it comes to things like national defense the govt is best equipped to do it, but even then they screw it up all the time. Using how well Norad ran to say healthcare will be fine is a joke.

"We need a military budget big enough to keep us from being invaded by every country in the world.

Except NORAD. Those guys suck.

- cutthemdown"

LOL

Adding this to the list.

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 07:08 AM
LOL I didn't bring NORAD up they have nothing to do with govt programs anyways. Military a whole other animal and I agree 100% that is the govt job to do. Healthcare insurance, ummm not so much. Good try though lil fella.

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 07:09 AM
Besides if someone said look at the military its run so well, lets let govt do healthcare insurance I would disagree. They do need a big budget but the military horrible at keeping costs low. If anything that is a good example of why not to let govt into healthcare. Good point.

Meck77
10-23-2013, 06:12 PM
Over 78,000 options for an estimated 20,000,000 people. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/health-exchange/2013/10/23/insurers-offering-78437-policy-variations-over-healthcare-gov-site/

I'm staring to think Obama should have listened to the republicans and given his plan a year or MORE. He's going to be begging for more time well beyond the 6 months. Republicans will probably change their tune and demand he get it done in 6 months! It's a comedy.

peacepipe
10-23-2013, 06:28 PM
Over 78,000 options for an estimated 20,000,000 people. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/health-exchange/2013/10/23/insurers-offering-78437-policy-variations-over-healthcare-gov-site/

I'm staring to think Obama should have listened to the republicans and given his plan a year or MORE. He's going to be begging for more time well beyond the 6 months. Republicans will probably change their tune and demand he get it done in 6 months! It's a comedy.

LOL nice try.

Meck77
10-23-2013, 06:32 PM
LOL nice try.

What do you mean nice try. It's happening right now. See my post on Taco's thread. They just reported they may have to scrap the entire site.

peacepipe
10-23-2013, 06:51 PM
What do you mean nice try. It's happening right now. See my post on Taco's thread. They just reported they may have to scrap the entire site.ooooh! is that the same as scrapping obamacare? NO. They'll simply open a new site with the problems fixed.

If some website gliches is all you got to put your hat on after throwing a massive temper tantrum and shutting down the government, then have at it. At the end of the day it's meaningless cause obamacare is going no where.

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 08:20 PM
I agree its going nowhere lol

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 08:21 PM
The next shock will be in yr 3 when costs of the plans skyrocket. Sure the insurance companies are playing along right now, but just wait until the numbers get crunched. The real numbers. LOL in a way its going to be funny.

BroncoBeavis
10-23-2013, 10:13 PM
ooooh! is that the same as scrapping obamacare? NO. They'll simply open a new site with the problems fixed.

If some website gliches is all you got to put your hat on after throwing a massive temper tantrum and shutting down the government, then have at it. At the end of the day it's meaningless cause obamacare is going no where.

Without the exchange working, and working well, the whole system tips over because of adverse selection. The sick who really need coverage will climb whatever obstacles they have to to get the discounted coverage. The healthy who are supposed to subsidize the sick and aren't positive they need coverage in the first place aren't going to spend hours upon hours trying to navigate the process.

So next year, premiums go up significantly. More of the healthy people who bothered to enroll wonder why they're paying so much for the benefit of the sick, and drop out. Then premiums go up again. And on and on.

The Lone Bolt
10-23-2013, 11:12 PM
Without the exchange working, and working well, the whole system tips over because of adverse selection. The sick who really need coverage will climb whatever obstacles they have to to get the discounted coverage. The healthy who are supposed to subsidize the sick and aren't positive they need coverage in the first place aren't going to spend hours upon hours trying to navigate the process.

So next year, premiums go up significantly. More of the healthy people who bothered to enroll wonder why they're paying so much for the benefit of the sick, and drop out. Then premiums go up again. And on and on.

You have quite an imagination. :puff:

BroncoBeavis
10-24-2013, 09:23 AM
You have quite an imagination. :puff:

To some people Common Sense looks like imagination. :)

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-24-2013, 04:38 PM
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1044470_10151757303912971_503523831_n.jpg

Rohirrim
10-24-2013, 05:13 PM
In the winter, ducks fly South.

My dog likes fish.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-24-2013, 07:41 PM
In the winter, ducks fly South.

My dog likes fish.

Wow, what a withering argument.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-24-2013, 08:32 PM
.

DenverBrit
10-24-2013, 09:18 PM
LOL

Lick away, sh*t stirrer.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-24-2013, 09:25 PM
Big "o" will find a familar taste as well.

DenverBrit
10-24-2013, 09:49 PM
As well? Maybe you can share a spoon. :wiggle:

Rohirrim
10-25-2013, 03:37 AM
Realllllllllllllyyyyyyyy? Where did you find this interesting quote? MSNBC, CNN Aljazerra?

Now Nigeria wants an apology. :rofl:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/nigerian-ambassador-cruz_n_4159186.html

Mecklomaniac
10-25-2013, 08:31 AM
Now Nigeria wants an apology. :rofl:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/nigerian-ambassador-cruz_n_4159186.html


Lol... I guess I can see their point. The "Nigerian" scammers aren't from Nigeria. Now if ya'll would stop saying welsh on a bet, that really hurts the feelings of us Welshmen.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-25-2013, 01:00 PM
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1374784_607338119323823_1077994209_n.jpg

Rohirrim
10-25-2013, 01:32 PM
Lol... I guess I can see their point. The "Nigerian" scammers aren't from Nigeria. Now if ya'll would stop saying welsh on a bet, that really hurts the feelings of us Welshmen.

'I do believe your Majesty takes no scorn to wear the leek upon Saint Davy’s day.’

'I wear it for a memorable honour. For I am Welsh, you know’.
;D

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-25-2013, 03:40 PM
<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/123576" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DenverBrit
10-25-2013, 04:41 PM
'I do believe your Majesty takes no scorn to wear the leek upon Saint Davy’s day.’

'I wear it for a memorable honour. For I am Welsh, you know’.
;D

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dzR_-WAPtL0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
10-25-2013, 04:47 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dzR_-WAPtL0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That scene chokes me up every time. ;D

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-25-2013, 05:02 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1381644_605821819473307_337501771_n.png

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-25-2013, 06:11 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ax1CpNtfoCA?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

orinjkrush
10-25-2013, 06:43 PM
it frankly is amazing to me to see how quickly the health insurance companies have banded together in near unison to **** this program. regardless the website disaster.

follow the ****ing money and you will see a "conspiracy"

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-25-2013, 06:49 PM
it frankly is amazing to me to see how quickly the health insurance companies have banded together in near unison to **** this program. regardless the website disaster.

follow the ****ing money and you will see a "conspiracy"

If I were to think that way then the money goes to "single payer". :(

DenverBrit
10-25-2013, 06:53 PM
That scene chokes me up every time. ;D

Great movie. :)

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-27-2013, 12:30 PM
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1379472_10151967409351178_425244736_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 10:58 AM
As well? Maybe you can share a spoon. :wiggle:

Obama isn't going on ObamaCare. You sap.

DenverBrit
10-28-2013, 12:16 PM
Obama isn't going on ObamaCare. You sap.

LOL

Late, lame and irrelevant!!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 02:11 PM
LOL

Late, lame and irrelevant!!

Unlike you, I don't troll here every second. I come here to mind efff you. LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 06:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXtDW5eCUAA_R_p.jpg:large

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 07:02 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/08UnZF43quI?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ant1999e
10-28-2013, 08:08 PM
First Lady Michelle Obama’s Princeton classmate is a top executive at the company that earned the contract to build the failed Obamacare website.

Toni Townes-Whitley, Princeton class of ’85, is senior vice president at CGI Federal, which earned the no-bid contract to build the $678 million Obamacare enrollment website at Healthcare.gov. CGI Federal is the U.S. arm of a Canadian company.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/25/michelle-obamas-princeton-classmate-is-executive-at-company-that-built-obamacare-website/#ixzz2j4ZixmBj

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-28-2013, 08:11 PM
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1385624_10153384497150494_13309717_n.png

bowtown
10-28-2013, 08:33 PM
Unlike you, I don't troll here every second.

Ummm... that's exactly what you do. Have you read through the garbage you've posted in this thread... or should I say: have you looked at the pictures you've posted in this thread?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 01:39 PM
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1385874_580178228702689_712106722_n.jpg

DenverBrit
10-29-2013, 03:28 PM
Unlike you, I don't troll here every second. I come here to mind efff you. LOL

YOU are the Troll around here, don't be such an ironic ditz! :rofl:

ant1999e
10-29-2013, 09:06 PM
1

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-29-2013, 09:08 PM
1

LOL. That's a good one. Sad but true. ROFL!

Smiling Assassin27
10-30-2013, 09:29 AM
Interesting with this administration how when it's an actual gov't website that crashes and burns, it goes from 'you didn't build that' to 'we didn't build that'.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-30-2013, 01:51 PM
Interesting with this administration how when it's an actual gov't website that crashes and burns, it goes from 'you didn't build that' to 'we didn't build that'.

LOL. Every Dem/Lib does that. Look at the poor. Look at Detroit.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-01-2013, 08:28 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1392906_10153402285140494_819582623_n.png

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-02-2013, 12:28 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYAKfwxCYAAxXCz.jpg:large

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-10-2013, 06:12 PM
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1455183_10153441230130494_1701131274_n.png

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-10-2013, 06:40 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/palin-playtea.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-10-2013, 06:41 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/bd131106fb.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-10-2013, 08:22 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/bd131106b.jpg



LOL Pointless per average.

houghtam
11-10-2013, 11:37 PM
LOL Pointless per average.

LOL

Didn't understand cartoon.

A+ post.

barryr
11-11-2013, 07:38 AM
Yes, the liberals around here are qualified, as well as Obama, to determine how "good" someone's health insurance happens to be. The insurance experts. Glad after all these years of illegals using emergency rooms and not paying that they are suddenly worried about it though.

If a private company conducted business this way with an inept website, that still doesn't even work, they would be out of business, but since it's government, likely those in charge of this fiasco will get a promotion and more money soon. Hmm, wasn't the company that designed this from Canada? So this president even outsources website designs? Great decision from the looks of things.

cutthemdown
11-11-2013, 12:42 PM
Wait until obama is forced to veto a bill extending the deadline. He can't let it be extended or the insurance companies will jack rates up the following yr something fierce. They need the young healthy peoples money right now to pay for this thing.

Meck77
11-11-2013, 12:59 PM
That somebody should be Obama.

Rohirrim
11-11-2013, 03:37 PM
Matt Lauer on the Today show asked Sarah Palin what the Tea Party solution to health care is for America. Of course, she tried to ignore the question and talked over him for about five minutes, but then finally, on the third try, she blurted out this:

"The plan is to allow those things that had been proposed over many years to reform a health care system in America that certainly does need more help so that there's more competition, there's less tort reform threat, there's less trajectory of the cost increases? And those plans have been proposed over and over again. And what thwarts those plans? It's the far left. It's President Obama and his supporters who will not allow the Republicans to usher in free market, patient-centered, doctor-patient relationship links to reform health care!"

And there you have it. ;D

houghtam
11-11-2013, 03:52 PM
Matt Lauer on the Today show asked Sarah Palin what the Tea Party solution to health care is for America. Of course, she tried to ignore the question and talked over him for about five minutes, but then finally, on the third try, she blurted out this:

"The plan is to allow those things that had been proposed over many years to reform a health care system in America that certainly does need more help so that there's more competition, there's less tort reform threat, there's less trajectory of the cost increases? And those plans have been proposed over and over again. And what thwarts those plans? It's the far left. It's President Obama and his supporters who will not allow the Republicans to usher in free market, patient-centered, doctor-patient relationship links to reform health care!"

And there you have it. ;D

:spit:

I cannot stand this woman, but God bless her little heart, I wish she would stay in politics forever.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-11-2013, 05:45 PM
<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/123957" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-11-2013, 07:11 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BUsUWFANPS8?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
11-11-2013, 08:55 PM
:spit:

I cannot stand this woman, but God bless her little heart, I wish she would stay in politics forever.

Hobo understands her perfectly.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-11-2013, 10:36 PM
http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-Hillary-Clinton-Bill-mix.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-12-2013, 05:02 PM
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/udVjiChgqL8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Smiling Assassin27
11-14-2013, 05:30 PM
Dennis Miller Show ‏@DennisDMZ 6m
This thing's so ****ed up there are people whose surname is "Care" who are legally changing it.

DenverBrit
11-14-2013, 05:44 PM
"Anybody try to sign up for the Obamacare? It's impossible, and everybody's furious. The Republicans are upset about Obamacare because something they tried to stop now won't get started." –David Letterman

Rohirrim
11-14-2013, 05:47 PM
"Anybody try to sign up for the Obamacare? It's impossible, and everybody's furious. The Republicans are upset about Obamacare because something they tried to stop now won't get started." –David Letterman

Not to mention, it was something they came up with in the first place. :~ohyah!:

Rohirrim
11-14-2013, 05:55 PM
Now, Boehner is sobbing that Obama has wrecked, "...the world's best health care system." Really? Doesn't John have access to the internet? Or Fact Check? Right now, we're at 38, according to the WHO. Below Costa Rica. :rofl:

A baby born in El Salvadore has a better chance at life than one born in Detroit.

The GOP could do itself a favor by stop throwing all the absurd bs around.

John should have said, "The most expensive health care system in the world."

DenverBrit
11-14-2013, 06:46 PM
"Obamacare needs the premiums of healthier people to cover the costs of sicker people. It's a devious con that can only be described as insurance." –Stephen Colbert

"Obamacare is real. As of Tuesday people went on the exchanges. Unfortunately they didn't work.
This thing crashes so frequently they are starting to call it Lindsay Lohancare." –Bill Maher

"Before they went on vacation, Congress voted to exempt themselves from Obamacare. They gave themselves a special exemption because
they thought it was too expensive. So the people who voted for Obamacare for us voted to exempt themselves from it.
You know how doctors take the Hippocratic Oath. Congress apparently takes the 'Hypocritic Oath.'" –Jay Leno

barryr
11-15-2013, 03:35 AM
Now Obama thinks he can tell insurance companies what to do. Sorry folks, the guy has no clue.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-15-2013, 08:28 AM
Now, Boehner is sobbing that Obama has wrecked, "...the world's best health care system." Really? Doesn't John have access to the internet? Or Fact Check? Right now, we're at 38, according to the WHO. Below Costa Rica. :rofl:

A baby born in El Salvadore has a better chance at life than one born in Detroit.

The GOP could do itself a favor by stop throwing all the absurd bs around.

John should have said, "The most expensive health care system in the world."

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1450266_219184311588620_1013732454_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-16-2013, 04:19 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1452505_621138347941654_362072279_n.jpg

The Lone Bolt
11-16-2013, 06:13 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1452505_621138347941654_362072279_n.jpg

Um.... no. The executive order doesn't "delay Obamacare."

And you can blame Obama for the shutdown all you want. The majority of voters don't agree.

The Lone Bolt
11-16-2013, 06:16 PM
Now, Boehner is sobbing that Obama has wrecked, "...the world's best health care system." Really? Doesn't John have access to the internet? Or Fact Check? Right now, we're at 38, according to the WHO. Below Costa Rica. :rofl:

A baby born in El Salvadore has a better chance at life than one born in Detroit.

The GOP could do itself a favor by stop throwing all the absurd bs around.

John should have said, "The most expensive health care system in the world."

Only a complete idiot would think that the mess we've had for decades now is the "world's best health care system."


Oh, right. It's Boner.

ant1999e
11-20-2013, 12:19 AM
http://m.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/364342/administration-official-obamacare-payment-systems-still-need-be-built-jim
The information-technology systems of Obamacare are still anywhere from 30 to 70 percent unfinished, an administration official testified today.

Admittedly, the answer from Henry Chao, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services deputy chief information officer, in a House hearing today isn’t really clear. At one point he seems to indicate 30 to 40 percent of the information-technology system supporting the Obamacare exchanges is unfinished; at another point it sounds more like he’s saying 60 to 70 percent. But the news is stunning either way: HealthCare.gov was launched with some massive parts unfinished, and they are still unfinished.The stunning part begins about three minutes into the above video. Representative Cory Gardner (R., Colo.) asks Chao what percentage of the system remains to be built.

Chao says, “I think it’s, uh, just an approximation, we’re probably sitting somewhere between 60 and 70 percent, because we still have to build the systems–”

Gardner responds incredulously, “Sixty to seventy percent that needs to be built, still?”

Chao responds, “Because we still have to build the payment systems to make payments to issuers in January.”

“Let me get this correct,” Gardner says, “60 to 70 percent of Healthcare.gov still needs to be built?”

Chao responds, “It’s not really Healthcare.gov, it’s the federally facilitated marketplace.”

Gardner: “But the entire system that the American people are being required to rely on . . . ”

Chao: “That part is there. HealthCare.gov, the online application, verification, determination, plan compare, getting enrolled, generating enrollment transactions, that’s 100 percent there. What I’m talking about–”

Gardner: “But the entire system is 60 to 70 percent away from being complete?”

Chao: “There’s the back-office systems, the accounting systems, the payment systems, they still need be built.”

If is so far from finished . . . why would a delay in the individual mandate be so unreasonable?

cutthemdown
11-20-2013, 08:02 AM
Now, Boehner is sobbing that Obama has wrecked, "...the world's best health care system." Really? Doesn't John have access to the internet? Or Fact Check? Right now, we're at 38, according to the WHO. Below Costa Rica. :rofl:

A baby born in El Salvadore has a better chance at life than one born in Detroit.

The GOP could do itself a favor by stop throwing all the absurd bs around.

John should have said, "The most expensive health care system in the world."

Sorry but infant mortality rates are subject to the fact in most countries babies have to be alive for over an hour to be considered a live birth. In the USA if a baby takes one breath it was a live birth.

cutthemdown
11-20-2013, 08:04 AM
http://m.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/364342/administration-official-obamacare-payment-systems-still-need-be-built-jim
The information-technology systems of Obamacare are still anywhere from 30 to 70 percent unfinished, an administration official testified today.

Admittedly, the answer from Henry Chao, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services deputy chief information officer, in a House hearing today isn’t really clear. At one point he seems to indicate 30 to 40 percent of the information-technology system supporting the Obamacare exchanges is unfinished; at another point it sounds more like he’s saying 60 to 70 percent. But the news is stunning either way: HealthCare.gov was launched with some massive parts unfinished, and they are still unfinished.The stunning part begins about three minutes into the above video. Representative Cory Gardner (R., Colo.) asks Chao what percentage of the system remains to be built.

Chao says, “I think it’s, uh, just an approximation, we’re probably sitting somewhere between 60 and 70 percent, because we still have to build the systems–”

Gardner responds incredulously, “Sixty to seventy percent that needs to be built, still?”

Chao responds, “Because we still have to build the payment systems to make payments to issuers in January.”

“Let me get this correct,” Gardner says, “60 to 70 percent of Healthcare.gov still needs to be built?”

Chao responds, “It’s not really Healthcare.gov, it’s the federally facilitated marketplace.”

Gardner: “But the entire system that the American people are being required to rely on . . . ”

Chao: “That part is there. HealthCare.gov, the online application, verification, determination, plan compare, getting enrolled, generating enrollment transactions, that’s 100 percent there. What I’m talking about–”

Gardner: “But the entire system is 60 to 70 percent away from being complete?”

Chao: “There’s the back-office systems, the accounting systems, the payment systems, they still need be built.”

If is so far from finished . . . why would a delay in the individual mandate be so unreasonable?

The delay of the individual mandate would bring the whole ACA crashing down. Without the young healthy people forced onto the rolls the prices people are being quoted right now will skyrocket. Thats why the business one was delayed and the individual was not. It's a tax on healthy Americans and it has to go through in order for poor people to get health care.

The Lone Bolt
11-20-2013, 04:24 PM
The delay of the individual mandate would bring the whole ACA crashing down. Without the young healthy people forced onto the rolls the prices people are being quoted right now will skyrocket. Thats why the business one was delayed and the individual was not. It's a tax on healthy Americans and it has to go through in order for poor people to get health care.

Once again the fact that we already pay for the health care of the uninsured escapes you. And when they present to a hospital ER for treatment and can't pay it's a hidden tax on everybody.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-20-2013, 04:59 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/gop-get-warm.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-20-2013, 05:03 PM
Obamacare is a GOP long con.

Origins: Heritage think tank --> Romneycare --> Obamacare.

GOP end game: Use youth anger over mandatory health insurance to their advantage in 2014 and 2016.

Rigs11
11-21-2013, 09:27 AM
Fear not americans, the GOP have a solution to this mess!:rofl:

CNN obtains GOP playbook to target Obamacare


Washington (CNN) - It's a playbook on the bruising field of health care politics, complete with "x's and o's."

The House Republican strategy memo, entitled "Because of Obamacare... I lost my insurance," offers samples of talking points, social media, videos, digital flyers, op-eds, and a fact sheet for GOP lawmakers doing battle against the president's signature legislative achievement.

Obtained by CNN, and reported first by Roll Call, the playbook was released late last month. A Republican source who provided the strategy memo to CNN says it will be updated and released to GOP House members Thursday.

"The administration now has a serious competence problem. Healthcare.gov is so much more than a website. The website should have been the easy part," the playbook reads.

The disclosure of the memo, produced by the office of House Republican Conference Chair Cathy McMorris Rodgers, comes amid a sustained Republican onslaught against the Affordable Care Act.

President Obama has noted the highly organized opposition to his signature legislative achievement.

“One of the problems we’ve had is one side of Capitol Hill is invested in failure,” Obama said at a Wall Street Journal event with some of the nation's top CEO's Tuesday.

White House spokesman Eric Schultz said the GOP's "18 page playbook of partisan attacks is 18 pages longer than their health care plan."

"In the playbook, there’s not a single word devoted to helping constituents enroll or offering an alternative idea to help Americans gain access to quality, affordable care," he added.

A spokesperson for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said Democrats will continue to back the program.

"While Republicans continue to fixate on sabotaging health reform and root for failure, House Democrats will continue to stand tall in support of the Affordable Care Act, work to strengthen the health reform law as implementation continues, and ensure that millions of uninsured Americans get coverage," Drew Hammill said in a statement.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/21/house-gop-playbook-because-of-obamacare-i-lost-my-insurance/?hpt=hp_t2

BroncoBeavis
11-21-2013, 09:31 AM
Very good read on Healthcare and the market.

http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/health-care-and-the-profit-motive

Pretty balanced (from my perspective anyway)

Like many things, there is no right answer or easy solution. You can really only pick which direction to walk from where we're at.

barryr
11-23-2013, 06:27 AM
Now Obama just coincidentally wants to push back the employer mandate until after the November elections. Hmm, Obamacare is so good, but pushing back the mandate until after the next elections. LOL, think about it. I know Obama's media and supporters don't get it since they don't want to and admit this farce and believe the garbage, but they're the smart ones though LOL

DenverBrit
11-23-2013, 09:25 AM
Now Obama just coincidentally wants to push back the employer mandate until after the November elections. Hmm, Obamacare is so good, but pushing back the mandate until after the next elections. LOL, think about it. I know Obama's media and supporters don't get it since they don't want to and admit this farce and believe the garbage, but they're the smart ones though LOL

You reinforce that notion every time you post.