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Taco John
10-08-2013, 11:18 PM
Download Episode 36 - @ Dallas (http://k002.kiwi6.com/hotlink/x6u11inm9s/131008-orangemanepodcast-36.mp3)
(right click - save as)

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 05:11 AM
Daughter was sick last night, so instead of rewatching some key parts of the game I had to lay down with her until she fell asleep. It manifests itself in some rants that kind of peter out aimlessly.

Also, Taco foolishly yanked an amazing new segment from this week's episode (we should have yanked the Jacksonville segment), where I have time to start taking the appropriate credit for all my gloriously spot on predictions.

In its stead, some highlights from this week:

Recall the Brent Celek example and expect a big day from Julius Thomas as Peyton abuses the seam and the side line (both deep and between the corner and safety). While I expect Dallas to pose the greatest threat Denver has faced this season, there are no breaks on the rape train.

How could Chris Clark possibly match-up with one of the best pass rushers there has ever been in Demarcus Ware? By minimizing the job. Per Profootballfocus.com, 23 of 34 pass attempts were released in 2.5 seconds or less. A dizzying rate and a near impossible task for a defender to read pass, beat his man, close and sack the QB. The other eleven attempts are likely to all be by design–longer step drops, more elaborate developing routes–and assisted with a tight end or back.

I think Seattle's streak will come to an end at Indy and like Baltimore to get their feet back underneath them at Miami.

fontaine
10-09-2013, 05:22 AM
Thanks and great podcast guys.

Though I have to wonder what game was Mike (Socal)? watching when he talks about no pressure?

For the entirety of the 2nd half we were without our best pass rusher (Ayers), our best blizing LBer in Woodyard, and Harris.

What kind of pressure were you expecting from Adrian Robinson playing at RDE?

In the first half when we had those guys healthy, we were sacking Romo and forced him out of the pocket numerous times.

El Guapo
10-09-2013, 05:27 AM
Thanks again for doing this, fellas. I'll be giving this a listen this afternoon.

ColoradoDarin
10-09-2013, 05:38 AM
Persnickety!

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 05:44 AM
Thanks and great podcast guys.

Though I have to wonder what game was Mike (Socal)? watching when he talks about no pressure?

For the entirety of the 2nd half we were without our best pass rusher (Ayers), our best blizing LBer in Woodyard, and Harris.

What kind of pressure were you expecting from Adrian Robinson playing at RDE?

In the first half when we had those guys healthy, we were sacking Romo and forced him out of the pocket numerous times.

Not to mention plays where we get hands on Romo THREE TIMES but he escapes and hits a 30+ yard pass to move the chains.

CEH
10-09-2013, 05:57 AM
Not to mention plays where we get hands on Romo THREE TIMES but he escapes and hits a 30+ yard pass to move the chains.

Just think if Von Miller chases Romo down just twice. 2 sacks that force two punts and gives the ball back to Manning. You're looking at 10-14 more points minimum.

Would have been great to watch Miller on that carpet chase down Romo.

fontaine
10-09-2013, 06:09 AM
Not to mention plays where we get hands on Romo THREE TIMES but he escapes and hits a 30+ yard pass to move the chains.

Yeah, we're not going to feature that 2nd half defense again this season that gave up 28 point in one half consisting of Irving at Mike, Robinson at DE, Bolden at slot and Carter on one side with zone coverage concepts with players that just aren't used to.

Week 7 against Indy is going to be the true test of this defense because we'll have all our guys back (barring any further unexpected setbacks) against a strong run oriented OL with Richardson/Brown featuring an elite QB that can really spread that ball around.

Miss I.
10-09-2013, 06:20 AM
I just turned it on and the first thing I hear is Archer81 and Kaylore talking about chaps. craziness. But I am excited to hear the rest now. Thanks for a great gift on my travel day.

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 06:22 AM
Just think if Von Miller chases Romo down just twice. 2 sacks that force two punts and gives the ball back to Manning. You're looking at 10-14 more points minimum.

Would have been great to watch Miller on that carpet chase down Romo.

Yeah, one of the things I emphasized in the podcast was that players were in position to make a lot more game-changing plays and didn't finish.

Von and Champ are both finishers.

Yeah, we're not going to feature that 2nd half defense again this season that gave up 28 point in one half consisting of Irving at Mike, Robinson at DE, Bolden at slot and Carter on one side with zone coverage concepts with players that just aren't used to.

Week 7 against Indy is going to be the true test of this defense because we'll have all our guys back (barring any further unexpected setbacks) against a strong run oriented OL with Richardson/Brown featuring an elite QB that can really spread that ball around.

Killer post as usual, fontaine.

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 07:12 AM
I put together some screen shots of the Cowboys biggest plays so we can take a closer look at what went wrong (sorry for the quality, couldn't find any HD replay through NFL ticket immediately this morning):

Early TD:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/TD1-3sec_zps0ea83b36.png
^ big fast pressure, Romo off backfoot throws after 4 seconds (the first 2 developing play action) for a score

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/Pressure_zpsc9a90798.png
^ early big 3rd and 10, pocket crushed and multiple Broncos close on Romo

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/Pressure2_zps50cf8f07.png
^ Bronco fans breathe a sigh of relief as this drive is about to come to a close

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/Pressure3_zps8b7df6fc.png
^ despite the ridiculous pressure, first sack eluded

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/Pressure4_zpsebe77326.png
^ now Wolfe can't bring him down for a second sack eluded

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/Pressure5_zpsbc3ecde2.png
^ here's Romo staring down the shot from the 3rd Bronco to make contact with him and delivering a ridiculous 3rd down strike

Meanwhile on the OM: "We're not getting pressure!"

Here's the big 82 yard pass play in the pocket:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/Romo82yd_zpsa33cb909.png
^ another rapidly collapsing pocket

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/CarterWhiffingon82_zps298fb97f.png
^ Here's the other end of that ball. Tony Carter in perfect position and smartly high-pointing the ball... misses, had no safety help and it's an 82 yard TD score.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/BigPasstoDez_zps4956e83b.png
^ Huge pass to Dez, 2 seconds in, pocket already collapsing. Throw is out at 3 secs--ridiculously fast for a 7 step drop

In a game where the goal is to hit and hurry the QB and get him off center, that was absolutely accomplished in spades. The plays were there, but the Cowboys finished on offense and the Broncos did not on defense.

Kaylore
10-09-2013, 07:51 AM
I like how at the beginning it sounds like Taco is on microphone in a super market.

ColoradoDarin
10-09-2013, 08:00 AM
I like how at the beginning it sounds like Taco is on microphone in a super market.

He's not? I always thought he was an illegal working as a grocery bagger....

Archer81
10-09-2013, 08:16 AM
Good podcast, per the usual.


:Broncos:

DENVERDUI55
10-09-2013, 09:10 AM
I put together some screen shots of the Cowboys biggest plays so we can take a closer look at what went wrong (sorry for the quality, couldn't find any HD replay through NFL ticket immediately this morning):

Early TD:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/TD1-3sec_zps0ea83b36.png
^ big fast pressure, Romo off backfoot throws after 4 seconds (the first 2 developing play action) for a score
.

Sorry that was not pressure on that play. Romo had a full 4 seconds to throw and the Broncos sent 6. Bryant had enough time to run from one side of the field to the other and Romo was able to throw a good touch pass. I'm 5 pass plays in on the rewatch and there has yet to be any pressure on Romo and he has had a minimum of 4 seconds when he didn't throw in timing at the back of his drop.

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Fan reaction:

QB completes pass - "We have no pressure!"
QB doesn't complete pass - "Our pressure caused that throw!"

DENVERDUI55
10-09-2013, 09:54 AM
Thanks and great podcast guys.

Though I have to wonder what game was Mike (Socal)? watching when he talks about no pressure?
.

Socal is seeing what a lot of people are seeing. I went ahead and watched the first half and noted down Romo's time. He had 22 passes and only 6 pressures. Out of those 6 pressures only 1 was under 3 seconds(Jackson sack) and the other 2 sacks were 5 seconds or longer. Here is what I wrote down.

Romo's 1st pass-6 seconds in the pocket, no pressure big 25 yard gain.

2. 3 seconds hits first read for 14.

3. 4 seconds 10 yard gain.

4. 3 seconds and out for 10.

5. The Dez Bryant TD Romo had plenty of time to sit back and wait for 4 seconds while Bryant ran accross the field. He threw a nice touch pass to Dez. Broncos blitzed 6 on the play and they all got stoned.

6. First pressure of the game on a PA bootleg by Vickerson. Romo took off running forward and Escobar dropped a shuffle pass.

7. 3 seconds in the pocket and Phillips made a lunging attempt which Romo side stepped and sat for 2 more seconds before tossing incomplete pass which was really dropped.

8. Second pressure of the game by Wolfe. He gets pressure here(even though held like crazy) and Romo scrambles around breaks 2 tackles makes a pass to Witten.

9. 4 seconds screen set up for short gain.

10. Denver Blitzed which doesn't get there Romo steps up and fires a big gain to Witten after 4 seconds.

11. 4 seconds, no pressure Dez for 20.

12. 4 seconds, no pressure Escobar for 20.

13. Ayers sack which is 3rd pressure of the game.

14. Pot roast breaks free which Romo has no problem escaping and proceeds to hold the ball for 6 seconds while Witten gets open for 10.

15. 5 seconds standing in the pocket and Dez can't make the great one handed catch on the bullet.

16. 5 seconds no pressure Duke with the good coverage on incomplete pass to Witten at the goalline.

17. 5 seconds Romo holds on to the ball before back tracking and being sacked for 17 yd loss at 8 seconds.

18. Romo hits Dez for 12 at the back of his drop.

19. Malik sack best defensive line play yet.

20. 4 seconds Romo runs for short gain. Good Coverage down the field.

21. 3 seconds Romo slides left 10 yard gain.

22. This play was a joke. A little bit of pressure but nothing that Romo doesn't slide around. Stands there for 9 F$%KING seconds before throwing long pass to Williams to give the pokes 3 pts.

Romo had 5 plus seconds to throw on almost all his throws which is not good in the NFL for the defenses. He has great escape ability but he only uses it when he needs to and isn't afraid to sit in the pocket. Hopefully adding Von fixes this problem which I think it can to an extent.

SoCalBronco
10-09-2013, 09:54 AM
Good podcast, per the usual.


:Broncos:

This.

BowlenBall
10-09-2013, 10:11 AM
WooHoo! Got my first mention on the podcast!

Well done as always, gentlemen -- thanks for the labor of love, it's greatly appreciated.

Kaylore
10-09-2013, 10:13 AM
Persnickety!

....It's a good word! Persnickety!

http://076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.c om/images/files/000/044/449/original/original.

randerson1184
10-09-2013, 10:19 AM
Great job! Always a pleasure to listen!

DENVERDUI55
10-09-2013, 11:33 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/Football/BigPasstoDez_zps4956e83b.png
^ Huge pass to Dez, 2 seconds in, pocket already collapsing. Throw is out at 3 secs--ridiculously fast for a 7 step drop

.

Sorry Bro but 2 seconds in pocket may have been collapsing but those 2 guys Wolfe and Malik were pushed to the side giving Romo a clear path. Romo had a full 4 seconds and was able to step up into the throw. It was a 5 step drop too BTW.

Eldorado
10-09-2013, 12:05 PM
Good podcast. I want to believe TheRevs assertion regarding the pass rush. I really do, but there were some epic long pocket times in there. Somebody should go back and just look at the third downs to see if there was a statistical difference in the time Romo had vs the rest of the pass plays.

Pro tip 1: Don't chew ice with mouth next to microphone.
Pro tip 2: Don't put phone on speaker on a multi line conference call.

DENVERDUI55
10-09-2013, 12:11 PM
I got time to watch the second half again and the pass rush/pressure was nonexistent. Denver didn't blitz a lot and the cowboys were able to keep a clean pocket without keeping a TE in very often. Romo is a hell of a QB when he was hot and Dez is probably the best WR in the game right now. It has been mentioned before that the inconsistent pass rush would show up against a legit QB and it did in the amount of 500 yards and 5 TDs.

2nd half throws

1- Long TD to Williams Romo took full drop took 2 steps up and fired the ball. He had 5 seconds in the pocket.

2-Romo allowed to reach back of drop and one step forward.

3 and 4- Clean pocket on both throws and pass rush nonexistent.

5- CB blitz works Romo and Beasley on same page completed hot route.

6 and 7- Clean pocket with 4 seconds to throw with no pressure.

8-Vickerson beat his man to pressure Romo. Romo doesn't see him but he didn't need to because the quick pass was a TD to Dez. 2pt conversion no pressure but the coverage was good and Romo tried to run for it.

9, 10, and 11- Clean pockets Romo was allowed to stand in for at least 4 seconds.

12-Romo had an enternity in the pocket and about 8 seconds. Webster was lucky he wasn't called for shoving Witten out of bounds.

13-Romo TD 8 seconds in the pocket.

14-Romo had 4 seconds in the pocket, no pressure but great coverage.

15 and 17-Passes were too quick for rush to to anything.

16-Romo had 5 seconds in the pocket.

17-Pressure up the middle and great coverage on the back end. Romo sacked by Phillips.

18-Up the middle pressure Romo couldn't step into the throw which wasn't that bad. Great play by Danny.

TonyR
10-09-2013, 12:12 PM
Good podcast. I want to believe TheRevs assertion regarding the pass rush. I really do, but there were some epic long pocket times in there. Somebody should go back and just look at the third downs to see if there was a statistical difference in the time Romo had vs the rest of the pass plays.

They only faced 6 3rd downs the whole game, which is ridiculous. And they converted 4 of them.

fontaine
10-09-2013, 03:49 PM
Socal is seeing what a lot of people are seeing. I went ahead and watched the first half and noted down Romo's time. He had 22 passes and only 6 pressures. Out of those 6 pressures only 1 was under 3 seconds(Jackson sack) and the other 2 sacks were 5 seconds or longer. Here is what I wrote down.

Romo's 1st pass-6 seconds in the pocket, no pressure big 25 yard gain.

2. 3 seconds hits first read for 14.

3. 4 seconds 10 yard gain.

4. 3 seconds and out for 10.

5. The Dez Bryant TD Romo had plenty of time to sit back and wait for 4 seconds while Bryant ran accross the field. He threw a nice touch pass to Dez. Broncos blitzed 6 on the play and they all got stoned.

6. First pressure of the game on a PA bootleg by Vickerson. Romo took off running forward and Escobar dropped a shuffle pass.

7. 3 seconds in the pocket and Phillips made a lunging attempt which Romo side stepped and sat for 2 more seconds before tossing incomplete pass which was really dropped.

8. Second pressure of the game by Wolfe. He gets pressure here(even though held like crazy) and Romo scrambles around breaks 2 tackles makes a pass to Witten.

9. 4 seconds screen set up for short gain.

10. Denver Blitzed which doesn't get there Romo steps up and fires a big gain to Witten after 4 seconds.

11. 4 seconds, no pressure Dez for 20.

12. 4 seconds, no pressure Escobar for 20.

13. Ayers sack which is 3rd pressure of the game.

14. Pot roast breaks free which Romo has no problem escaping and proceeds to hold the ball for 6 seconds while Witten gets open for 10.

15. 5 seconds standing in the pocket and Dez can't make the great one handed catch on the bullet.

16. 5 seconds no pressure Duke with the good coverage on incomplete pass to Witten at the goalline.

17. 5 seconds Romo holds on to the ball before back tracking and being sacked for 17 yd loss at 8 seconds.

18. Romo hits Dez for 12 at the back of his drop.

19. Malik sack best defensive line play yet.

20. 4 seconds Romo runs for short gain. Good Coverage down the field.

21. 3 seconds Romo slides left 10 yard gain.

22. This play was a joke. A little bit of pressure but nothing that Romo doesn't slide around. Stands there for 9 F$%KING seconds before throwing long pass to Williams to give the pokes 3 pts.

Romo had 5 plus seconds to throw on almost all his throws which is not good in the NFL for the defenses. He has great escape ability but he only uses it when he needs to and isn't afraid to sit in the pocket. Hopefully adding Von fixes this problem which I think it can to an extent.

Do you realise that a lot of Romo's first half "time" that you've put up there is based on 1st/2nd down throws where he's either rolling out, or working off play action that's designed to slow the pass rush when we had Vickerson/Knighton inside? Or when we went with 3 DL and not extra rushers?

Let's try this again with context shall we for just one drive (Dallas' 2nd Drive of the day you listed above).

6. First pressure of the game on a PA bootleg by Vickerson. Romo took off running forward and Escobar dropped a shuffle pass.
--> That's right off a play action bootleg with our run base DL on first down, but we still managed to get pressure because Vickerson broke free of his guy.

7. 3 seconds in the pocket and Phillips made a lunging attempt which Romo side stepped and sat for 2 more seconds before tossing incomplete pass which was really dropped.
--> Shotgun formation with empty backfield so clear pass rush play and Phillips did get pressure from a stunt inside.

8. Second pressure of the game by Wolfe. He gets pressure here(even though held like crazy) and Romo scrambles around breaks 2 tackles makes a pass to Witten.
--> 3rd and 10 so a clear pass rush opportunity with a spread formation and lone back offset with Romo in shotgun. Again we got pressure in a clear pass play look even though Wolfe was held.

9. 4 seconds screen set up for short gain.

--> 1st and 10 with Vickerson/Unrein inside and Romo setup a screen off play action - so how is this a pass rush opportunity?

10. Denver Blitzed which doesn't get there Romo steps up and fires a big gain to Witten after 4 seconds.
--> 3rd and 8, Romo in shotgun look with spread formation and empty backfield. Clearly a pass rush opportunity but we went we a 3 DL look and Harris blitzed off the slot. So again how would you expect pass rush from the DL when the defensive play was to flood the secondary, go 3 DL and blitz off the slot?

Dallas then scored a TD on the ground.

We had three pass rush opportunities on that one drive. We got pressure on two of those plays from the DL and in another we went with 3 DL and tried to blitz off the slot CB.


See how that looks with context on down and distance, formation and look?

What you're basically doing wrong is looking at the play after the fact. In other words, 1st and 10, with our base run stopping DL, one or two RBs in the backfield, Romo works play action and ends up keeping and passing. How/why would you count that against our pass rush?

BroncosfanGuy
10-09-2013, 05:31 PM
Fan reaction:

QB completes pass - "We have no pressure!"
QB doesn't complete pass - "Our pressure caused that throw!"

I disagree with this

there were points in the game where Romo had 6-10 second to throw. Even on one of the sacks when the Cowboys were driving and deep in Denver territory, Romo had all day to throw. The pressure for most of the game, imo, was subpar for most of the afternoon.

edit for some clarity, I was more concerned with the edge rush than the interior. Our big DTs were able to create some pressure early on and flush Romo out, but the edge rushers for most of the game were swallowed up by the OTs.

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 05:35 PM
I disagree with this

there were points in the game where Romo had 6-10 second to throw. Even on one of the sacks when the Cowboys were driving and deep in Denver territory, Romo had all day to throw. The pressure for most of the game, imo, was subpar for most of the afternoon.

edit for some clarity, I was more concerned with the edge rush than the interior. Our big DTs were able to create some pressure early on and flush Romo out, but the edge rushers for most of the game were swallowed up by the OTs.

That happens sometimes. Expecting every single dropback to get quick pressure isn't realistic. It's going to happen.

BroncosfanGuy
10-09-2013, 05:59 PM
That happens sometimes. Expecting every single dropback to get quick pressure isn't realistic. It's going to happen.

totally agree. but it happened way too often in the Cowboy game and was the cause or the catalyst of so many defensive breakdowns, imo. There were breakdowns at every level in that game and the inability to stop a WR was another glaring one that could and should be remedied fairly easily so I'm not saying the entire 48 points was due solely to ineffective pass rush. But a good amount of it was.

I will try to rewatch the game at some point this week and post some specific examples.

TheReverend
10-09-2013, 06:12 PM
totally agree. but it happened way too often in the Cowboy game and was the cause or the catalyst of so many defensive breakdowns, imo. There were breakdowns at every level in that game and the inability to stop a WR was another glaring one that could and should be remedied fairly easily so I'm not saying the entire 48 points was due solely to ineffective pass rush. But a good amount of it was.

I will try to rewatch the game at some point this week and post some specific examples.

Then check them against fontaine's post and see if that leaves any (let alone a volume worth fretting over) unaccounted for.

Vegas_Bronco
10-09-2013, 06:46 PM
When you play press coverage...you better have your Dline pushing the pocket in first 2 to 3 seconds...at least on the edge - See NY Giants SB teams.

Very nicely done podcast guys. The intro was a nice touch...hahaa!

Archer81
10-09-2013, 07:09 PM
When you play press coverage...you better have your Dline pushing the pocket in first 2 to 3 seconds...at least on the edge - See NY Giants SB teams.

Very nicely done podcast guys. The intro was a nice touch...hahaa!


I did not expect TJ to include the prepodcast banter. But it was pretty awesome.

:Broncos:

TonyR
10-09-2013, 07:59 PM
How/why would you count that against our pass rush?

If the pass rush wasn't an issue, why did you specifically say it was in this post?
...we functionally broke down because of blown coverages, very weak DB play including some awful tackling and lack of a pass rush. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3933364&postcount=45

And also in this one?
...CBs and Safeties got completely out of sync in their zone drops and we were down to one cover corner in DRC with almost no pass rush.http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3933195&postcount=32

Did you change your mind?

broncosteven
10-09-2013, 08:11 PM
I like how at the beginning it sounds like Taco is on microphone in a super market.

I just figured he got the super awesome Moogerfooger MF-104 Analog Delay that DEATHSicle has been trying to save up for.

Good stuff as always guys I still have about 20 minutes to go. Glad you were able to cover this game!

DENVERDUI55
10-10-2013, 12:54 AM
See how that looks with context on down and distance, formation and look?

What you're basically doing wrong is looking at the play after the fact. In other words, 1st and 10, with our base run stopping DL, one or two RBs in the backfield, Romo works play action and ends up keeping and passing. How/why would you count that against our pass rush?

Well that may work for a few plays but the defense knew that Dallas was going to be passing on almost every single play. They ran what 15 run plays and at least 10 of them were in the first half. Look we can agree to disagree and I hope to hell that I am wrong but Denver's pass rush with 4 guys isn't very good. I hope that Von fixes that but I have my doubts until I see it CONSISTENTLY.

fontaine
10-10-2013, 01:43 AM
If the pass rush wasn't an issue, why did you specifically say it was in this post?
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3933364&postcount=45

And also in this one?
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3933195&postcount=32

Did you change your mind?

No, you just selectively stupified your response.

In both my responses above I talked about half our starters including Ayers not playing in the 2nd half so yes in the 2nd half without our key players, our pass rush was weak because it featured a 2nd/3rd string defense at key positions.

But you just left that part out and just cut out sections to suit yourself.

fontaine
10-10-2013, 01:53 AM
Well that may work for a few plays but the defense knew that Dallas was going to be passing on almost every single play.

Maybe in the 2nd half yes, but in the first Dallas was still playing a balanced O working off play action, rollouts and one/two back sets. By the 2nd half when it was clearly a shootout, it was too late because our best pass rusher (Ayers) and our best blitzer were both out (Woodyard). Romo had a great individual game buying time in the pocket for at least 4-5 plays in the first half alone so I give him credit for that. We won't be facing that kind of QB every week.

They ran what 15 run plays and at least 10 of them were in the first half. Look we can agree to disagree and I hope to hell that I am wrong but Denver's pass rush with 4 guys isn't very good. I hope that Von fixes that but I have my doubts until I see it CONSISTENTLY.

Well that depends on which 4 guys you mean? Our run base DL with Knighton/Vickerson or Unrein inside isn't going to generate pass rush on 1st downs especially against play action/screens/rollouts because the DL is playing run and/or reading pass. It is what it is.

But yes, on passing downs/situation our pass rush generally has been good enough with guys like Jackson/Ayers/Phillips.

Phillips and Ayers, each, have more QB hits/pressures/sacks than Dumervil did at this point last season after 5 games.

The biggest difference (as you say) is that we haven't come close to replacing Von. We've tried with multiple looks using Irving, Ihenacho, Harris etc to blitz etc but that's never going to replace a stud pass rusher.

Once Von comes back the hope is he can take up where he left off then we've got that edge and finisher in our pass rush.

TonyR
10-10-2013, 05:50 AM
...so yes in the 2nd half without our key players, our pass rush was weak because it featured a 2nd/3rd string defense at key positions...

So how would you diagnose our defensive issues on Dallas' first two drives of the game where they drove for TD's? Before Woodyard, Harris, or Ayers were hurt?

TheReverend
10-10-2013, 06:32 AM
No, you just selectively stupified your response.

In both my responses above I talked about half our starters including Ayers not playing in the 2nd half so yes in the 2nd half without our key players, our pass rush was weak because it featured a 2nd/3rd string defense at key positions.

But you just left that part out and just cut out sections to suit yourself.

^ this. One thing you forgot to add is after Romo's slippery heroics making big plays outside the pocket, the Broncos also knowingly slowed the pass rush down and played some contain elements to attempt to prevent Romo from doing more of that (which didn't work Ha!)

Archer81
10-10-2013, 07:20 AM
So how would you diagnose our defensive issues on Dallas' first two drives of the game where they drove for TD's? Before Woodyard, Harris, or Ayers were hurt?


The second TD drive was a result of a fumble by Decker, giving Dallas the football at the Bronco 45. So the defense had been on the field for close to seven minutes the first drive, got 1:30 worth of rest, and then had to go right back out there. So in the first 11 1/2 minutes of the game, Dallas had 10 of it.

Plus, it was a shootout. No one can exactly look at either defense and point out superior play for either. Not entirely sure why you keep picking at it, either. Our defense got shredded...which happens in a shoot out. We lost Ayers, Harris and Woodyard for large chunks of the game. We were missing Von and Champ. So tell me, how many defenses can stand to lose 5 starters and present a viable unit? Did you really expect Bolden or Robinson to be sufficient replacements for Harris or Woodyard?

And on top of all that, our defense was the one that made the plays that ultimately won the game for Denver.

So...chill out. If Denver is giving up 48 points later on this season you may have a point, but we wont know until all of our starters are playing together.

:Broncos:

fontaine
10-10-2013, 08:32 AM
So how would you diagnose our defensive issues on Dallas' first two drives of the game where they drove for TD's? Before Woodyard, Harris, or Ayers were hurt?

Diagnose? Can't. I'm not and don't claim to be any kind of expert.

All I can do is look at what's obvious and stands out which is usually the physical play. All the rest (the majority) of it like schemes, assignments and responsibilities are a blind spot.

:)

TheReverend
10-10-2013, 08:39 AM
Diagnose? Can't. I'm not and don't claim to be any kind of expert.

All I can do is look at what's obvious and stands out which is usually the physical play. All the rest (the majority) of it like schemes, assignments and responsibilities are a blind spot.

:)

I know you're being descriptive and honest about your post and post history, but you shouldn't sell your contributions short in anyway. Easily a top 5 contributor (with ACTUAL contributions) while most repeat media-buzzwords out of context that they don't understand.

TonyR
10-10-2013, 10:59 AM
It would appear that Matt Bowen agrees with those who think the pass rush was an issue.

Tony Romo lit up the Broncos defense on Sunday, and it started with the lack of pressure up front from the Denver defensive line. Romo had too much time to manage the pocket, extend plays and allow his receivers to convert routes. And in the red zone, that is a nightmare for defensive backs.

I broke down Peyton Manning and the Broncos offense on Wednesday. That’s a top-tier unit right now. But without the skill set (and speed) of Miller as an edge-rusher, this defense really struggled to contain and collapse the pocket versus the Cowboys. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1805687-the-second-level-what-you-need-to-know-heading-into-nfl-week-6

fontaine
10-10-2013, 02:13 PM
I know you're being descriptive and honest about your post and post history, but you shouldn't sell your contributions short in anyway. Easily a top 5 contributor (with ACTUAL contributions) while most repeat media-buzzwords out of context that they don't understand.

Hey, always good to talk football.

I'm just excited because this could really be the year for us.
- Patriots down Wilfork/Hernandez and not near the level on O as last year
- Schaub dragging down Houston
- Steelers completely out of contention
- Baltimore struggling as well

I really think this could be the year where Denver has a clean path to the championship.

The usual AFC contenders are out and the only team that could stand in our way is Indy.

Really, the ONLY serious threat to Denver, is well Denver itself in the form of injuries (especially to our starters) and we've had more than our fair share already.

TheReverend
10-10-2013, 02:16 PM
Hey, always good to talk football.

I'm just excited because this could really be the year for us.
- Patriots down Wilfork/Hernandez and not near the level on O as last year
- Schaub dragging down Houston
- Steelers completely out of contention
- Baltimore struggling as well

I really think this could be the year where Denver has a clean path to the championship.

The usual AFC contenders are out and the only team that could stand in our way is Indy.

Really, the ONLY serious threat to Denver, is well Denver itself in the form of injuries (especially to our starters) and we've had more than our fair share already.

The currently building setup of Broncos-Colts in the AFCCG is about as drama filled as you can get.

Shame the Giants are out. Would be awesome for Peyton to slay Brady in the Div round, Luck in the Championship game and his brother in the Superbowl.