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View Full Version : 48 ways the government shutdown can hurt *you*


Blart
09-30-2013, 11:33 PM
Aside from damaging our economy which will hit all of our pocketbooks and slow our already slow recovery, here's another 48 terrible things:


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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/who-gets-screwed-shutdown-poor-people-old-people-basically-everyone

Anyone who might get sick: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) would lack funding to support its annual flu vaccination program.

Military personnel: Barring last-minute congressional action, members of the armed forces would have their paychecks put on hold while they continue to work.

People who use boats: The Coast Guard will cut back on routine patrols and navigation assistance.

Civilian defense employees: 400,000 Department of Defense employees will be given unpaid vacations.

Family members of fallen soldiers: Death benefits for military families will be delayed.

Gun owners: During the 1990s shutdown, applications for gun permits were delayed due to furloughs at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Trees: Hundreds of US Forest Service workers face furloughs in California during peak forest fire season.

Visa applicants: Furloughs at the State Department's Bureau of Consular Affairs mean tens of thousands of visa applications are put on hold.

People traveling abroad: A shutdown would cause delays in the processing of passport applications.

Sick people: The National Institutes of Health will not admit new patients unless ordered by the director.

Factory workers: The Occupational Safety and Health Administration will halt regular inspections.

Hikers: All 401 National Park Service sites will be closed.

People who make money off tourists: Shuttered national parks are bad news for the hotels, restaurants, and other attractions that feed off them.

Small business loan applicants: The Small Business Administration will furlough 62 percent of its workforce.

Employers: The Department of Homeland Security's e-Verify program will be offline for the duration of the shutdown.

Fountains: 45 of them will lose water.

People applying for mortgages: The Federal Housing Administration and the USDA won't guarantee new loans.

Oil and gas exploration: The Bureau of Land Management will stop processing permits for oil and gas drilling on federal lands.

Chemical site facility security: Funding for Department of Homeland Security regulatory program ends October 4.

FOIA requests: The Social Security Administration says it won't respond to Freedom of Information Act Requests during the shutdown.

Docents: All Smithsonian Institution museums in Washington, DC, will be closed.

@CuriosityRover: 98 percent of NASA's staff will be furloughed, and the agency's website and live-streams will go dark.

Renewable energy permits: The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management will stop all new offshore renewable-energy projects.

Campers: People living (or vacationing) in national parks and forests will have 48 hours to relocate.

Animal voyeurs: Watch the National Zoo's Panda-cam while you still can.

Native Americans: The Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforcement will suspend oversight of active and abandoned coal mines "primarily in Tennessee and on Indian lands."

Pesticide regulators: The Environmental Protection Agency will all but shut down at midnight.

Veterans pensions: The Department of Veterans Affairs says it will run out of funding for regular payment checks after a few weeks.

US Geological Survey researchers: The agency would stop most new scientific research and water analysis.

Disability payments: Although the VA will continue to provide medical care, disability payments may also be disrupted after a few weeks.

Winery permits: Couldn't they take the wine coolers instead?

Ponies: The Bureau of Land Management's wild horse and burro adoption programs would cease.

Infectious disease surveillance: The CDC will be unable to track outbreaks and monitor infectious diseases at a local level.

People on food assistance: The USDA's Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC) will stop making payments on October 1.

Food inspections: The Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration warned of "inability to investigate alleged violations" due to a lack of funding; food imports will also go unexpected.

Automobile recall inspectors: "Routine defects and recall information from manufacturers and consumers would not be reviewed," according to the Department of Transportation.

Food and drug safety research: The Department of Health and Human Services, which includes the FDA, will furlough 52 percent of its staff.

ARPA-E: The Department of Energy's cutting-edge research arm—and one of the crowning legacies of the stimulus—will shut down, putting projects such as "squirtable batteries" on hold.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission: The agency could furlough more than 92 percent of its employees next week, with much of the remaining staff handling inspections.

People without heat: If the shutdown persists, it could affect the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program, which funds heating assistance programs.

Consumers: The Commodity Futures Trading Commission will furlough 652 of its 680 employees and maintain only a "bare minimum level of oversight and surveillance" to stop fraudulent practices.

People trying to pay taxes: The Internal Revenue Service will shutter its tax hotline, and stop processing tax payments.

College students: Cutbacks at the Department of Education could slow Pell grant and student-loan payments.

Economists: The Bureau of Economic Analysis will cut back on its data collection.

Welfare recipients: Temporary Assistance for Needy Families—welfare—runs out of funding on October 1, although individual states may pick up the tab.

Head Start: The child development program, already hammered by the effects of sequestration, will stop doling out new grants on October 1.

Air monitoring: A 94 percent reduction in staff won't leave the EPA much room to enforce its new carbon regulations.

Golf: Courses at National Park Service sites will close for the shutdown. So at least we have that going for us.

Meck77
09-30-2013, 11:35 PM
I see a lot of benefits in there.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 11:38 PM
So basically, most people won't even notice.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 11:39 PM
I say they go down that list one by one and fund some of the important stuff, and turn over the rest of it to the states.

Fedaykin
09-30-2013, 11:48 PM
Let's not forget: Unemployment rate just doubled, meaning none of those people are getting paid, and none of the businesses that they patronize will be getting any profit from them for quite a while.

Oh yeah, and wait till we default on debts, and suddenly interest rates (effecting anyone who has borrowed or will borrow money, and anyone who invests) double or triple overnight.

If this goes on long enough, welcome to another big recession.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 12:02 AM
The recession was never fixed Fedaykin.

Let me make this real simple. Let's say your family got in some financial trouble and couldn't meet your obligations. Your car payment is due, mortgage due, you are behind on your taxes. In order to "fix" the problem you do a massive cash advance on your credit card and manage to catch your car and house payments up and get the IRS off your back temporarily with a one time payment. Now you have a huge expensive interest payment to your credit card company.

Did you really fix anything? Or perhaps it may have been "healthier" in the long run to let them repo your car (because wife still has one), perhaps get far enough behind on the morgage to where the bank rewrote your loan (sadly banks have been rewarding people who are way behind instead of those just a little behind) and you negotiated monthly payments to the IRS that were manageable.

Fedaykin
10-01-2013, 12:13 AM
The recession was never fixed Fedaykin.

Let me make this real simple. Let's say your family got in some financial trouble and couldn't meet your obligations. Your car payment is due, mortgage due, you are behind on your taxes. In order to "fix" the problem you do a massive cash advance on your credit card and manage to catch your car and house payments up and get the IRS off your back temporarily with a one time payment. Now you have a huge expensive interest payment to your credit card company.

Did you really fix anything? Or perhaps it may have been "healthier" in the long run to let them repo your car (because wife still has one), perhaps get far enough behind on the morgage to where the bank rewrote your loan (sadly banks have been rewarding people who are way behind instead of those just a little behind) and you negotiated monthly payments to the IRS that were manageable.

Total crap. This has taken a bad situation, and made it worse. Trying to compare the federal government to a family budget is pretty stupid -- as has been gone over hundreds of times on this forum.

What needs to happen is for our illustrious leaders to work together to find a reasonable compromise. Not just say **** it and push the big red button.

Now instead of just having a budget problem, we have a budget problem and another nail in our already fragile economy. Right before the most important season for businesses. It's complete foolishness.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 12:22 AM
Total crap. This has taken a bad situation, and made it worse. Trying to compare the federal government to a family budget is pretty stupid -- as has been gone over hundreds of times on this forum.

What needs to happen is for our illustrious leaders to work together to find a reasonable compromise. Not just say **** it and push the big red button.

Now instead of just having a budget problem, we have a budget problem and another nail in our already fragile economy. Right before the most important season for businesses. It's complete foolishness.

You say it's BS? Facing a problem head on vs denial? Did you not psychology 101 in college? Where have you ever read that being in denial will solve alcoholism? Or perhaps pretending to not have a gambling addiction will fix it?

Admitting you have a problem (in our case a spending problem/debt problem) is the first step of the 12 step process to recovery.

Fedaykin
10-01-2013, 12:25 AM
You say it's BS? Facing a problem head on vs denial? Did you not psychology 101 in college? Where have you ever read that being in denial will solve alcoholism? Or perhaps pretending to not have a gambling addiction will fix it?

Admitting you have a problem (in our case a spending problem/debt problem) is the first step of the 12 step process to recovery.

You're just as bad a TJ. Where did I say there was no problem? Stop with the bull**** strawmen. Act with integrity.

Garcia Bronco
10-01-2013, 05:34 AM
Most of those are State services...not Fed services, good grief.

El Guapo
10-01-2013, 05:51 AM
I say they go down that list one by one and fund some of the important stuff, and turn over the rest of it to the states.

ROFL! That's optimistic thinking and trust me, I wish that were the case. Instead this closure will end up costing the gov't more. Just watch the insanity.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 06:47 AM
Total crap. This has taken a bad situation, and made it worse. Trying to compare the federal government to a family budget is pretty stupid -- as has been gone over hundreds of times on this forum.

What needs to happen is for our illustrious leaders to work together to find a reasonable compromise. Not just say **** it and push the big red button.

Now instead of just having a budget problem, we have a budget problem and another nail in our already fragile economy. Right before the most important season for businesses. It's complete foolishness.

Or maybe what needs to happen is Americans need to take responsibility for what is going on. I'm to blame for this for allowing this to happen.

So you don't like relating our debt problems to personal ones. Ok fine. How about this.

It's as if our country has cancer. We give ourselves chemo blasts every couple years and manage to knock it down and go into remission but then what. It comes back and often stronger! Between remissions we convince ourselves everything is fine. DENIAL. We have to kill the cancer and the cancer is our nations DEBT. Debt causes tremendous amounts of stress with people. It makes people do things they wouldn't dream of otherwise. It breaks up marriages and families. The people trapped in the situation try to make more and more money but it doesn't fix the problem if they don't slow spending and actually pay down the debt!

Look I can't make it anymore clear if you won't face the truth of what our cancer is. It's the debt. Are the republicans using Obamacare as a reason to face the debt. Sure they are. Next time it will be the democrats using the debt to prevent the R's from doing something.

Bottom line is if our country was HEALTHY and growing properly the revenues would be coming in to create jobs, fund health care insurance for the poor, fund federal projects. INSTEAD we have an unsustainable system that is setting up more and more pain for the future as we are living in DENIAL.

Pony Boy
10-01-2013, 07:19 AM
The best part is when they all return to work they will get all their back pay and benefits..........so enjoy your paid vacation and don't go to a National Park but Disney Land is open for business.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 07:48 AM
I say they go down that list one by one and fund some of the important stuff, and turn over the rest of it to the states.

Many states, including the majority of red states, can't make it without federal support. The reason they are able to forestall becoming basically third world countries, is that more successful states pitch in and keep them afloat. It's called socialism. Withdraw that federal support and they collapse.

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 07:56 AM
If they are going to give Federal workers unpaid vacations, let's start with the politicians.

Maybe if they stay home, some work will get done.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 08:00 AM
If they are going to give Federal workers unpaid vacations, let's start with the politicians.

Maybe if they stay home, some work will get done.

At least they could take a few days and sober up.

But of course, the politicians have exempted themselves from the ill effects of all of their actions.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 08:16 AM
If they are going to give Federal workers unpaid vacations, let's start with the politicians.

Maybe if they stay home, some work will get done.

This right here is the benefit to the shut down. All across Facebook, conversations at the barber shop, everyone is saying let's stop paying the politicians.

The longer this shut down goes the more people will say it. Hopefully it goes viral on the internet and maybe some protests will form. We need an occupy wall street at every state capital protesting our politicians. Oh wait a second I've just become a home grown terrorist for suggesting such a thing. That's what they will label anyone trying to organize a peaceful protest these days.

Garcia Bronco
10-01-2013, 08:22 AM
Most of those are state run and collected at the state level. Obviously some of those are state run and federally funded, but I am okay with it.

Rigs11
10-01-2013, 09:16 AM
so if this cause the unemployment rate to go up will you rightards blame the dems?cuz right now you are saying it's not a big deal.

B-Large
10-01-2013, 09:27 AM
so if this cause the unemployment rate to go up will you rightards blame the dems?cuz right now you are saying it's not a big deal.

The claim will be the ACA did it...

Rigs11
10-01-2013, 09:40 AM
Weeping boy Boner said that the house should be judged on how many bills it has repealed. so far it has failed to repeal obamacare 42 times. Hilarious!

Miss I.
10-01-2013, 10:12 AM
On leave without pay today until dip****s in Congress figure it out. Frankly I am a little pissed. GFY congress. At least that will give my ass a rest. It was a bit sore because I didn't prepare it properly. Thankfully though I can go get Obamacare today and get someone to treat it. ;D

Fedaykin
10-01-2013, 10:15 AM
Or maybe what needs to happen is Americans need to take responsibility for what is going on. I'm to blame for this for allowing this to happen.

So you don't like relating our debt problems to personal ones. Ok fine. How about this.

It's as if our country has cancer. We give ourselves chemo blasts every couple years and manage to knock it down and go into remission but then what. It comes back and often stronger! Between remissions we convince ourselves everything is fine. DENIAL. We have to kill the cancer and the cancer is our nations DEBT. Debt causes tremendous amounts of stress with people. It makes people do things they wouldn't dream of otherwise. It breaks up marriages and families. The people trapped in the situation try to make more and more money but it doesn't fix the problem if they don't slow spending and actually pay down the debt!

Look I can't make it anymore clear if you won't face the truth of what our cancer is. It's the debt. Are the republicans using Obamacare as a reason to face the debt. Sure they are. Next time it will be the democrats using the debt to prevent the R's from doing something.

Bottom line is if our country was HEALTHY and growing properly the revenues would be coming in to create jobs, fund health care insurance for the poor, fund federal projects. INSTEAD we have an unsustainable system that is setting up more and more pain for the future as we are living in DENIAL.


Again again, where the hell did I say there was not a problem? Why are you so desperate to misrepresent me?

Rigs11
10-01-2013, 10:29 AM
Again again, where the hell did I say there was not a problem? Why are you so desperate to misrepresent me?

The dems already agred to billion in cuts that the right wanted. meck can't comprehend this.shutting down the government because we have debt makes no sense.

Bronco Yoda
10-01-2013, 11:59 AM
Or maybe what needs to happen is Americans need to take responsibility for what is going on. I'm to blame for this for allowing this to happen.

So you don't like relating our debt problems to personal ones. Ok fine. How about this.

It's as if our country has cancer. We give ourselves chemo blasts every couple years and manage to knock it down and go into remission but then what. It comes back and often stronger! Between remissions we convince ourselves everything is fine. DENIAL. We have to kill the cancer and the cancer is our nations DEBT. Debt causes tremendous amounts of stress with people. It makes people do things they wouldn't dream of otherwise. It breaks up marriages and families. The people trapped in the situation try to make more and more money but it doesn't fix the problem if they don't slow spending and actually pay down the debt!

Look I can't make it anymore clear if you won't face the truth of what our cancer is. It's the debt. Are the republicans using Obamacare as a reason to face the debt. Sure they are. Next time it will be the democrats using the debt to prevent the R's from doing something.

Bottom line is if our country was HEALTHY and growing properly the revenues would be coming in to create jobs, fund health care insurance for the poor, fund federal projects. INSTEAD we have an unsustainable system that is setting up more and more pain for the future as we are living in DENIAL.

Our debt is but a symptom not the underlying problem.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 12:20 PM
Our debt is but a symptom not the underlying problem.

Ok I will give you that. The problem is once you have the debt it becomes it's own problem. A compounding problem of infinite interest!

It's become it's own cancer eating away at the standard of life for ALL Americans not just the poor.

Bronco Yoda
10-01-2013, 03:00 PM
The best part is when they all return to work they will get all their back pay and benefits..........so enjoy your paid vacation and don't go to a National Park but Disney Land is open for business.

You do realize that most of these people probably live paycheck to paycheck. Guess it's all ****-&-giggles as long as you're not the one.

Bronco Yoda
10-01-2013, 03:03 PM
Sorry to hear that Miss. Will you be ok?

Fedaykin
10-01-2013, 03:07 PM
You do realize that most of these people probably live paycheck to paycheck. Guess it's all ****-&-giggles as long as you're not the one.

Not to mention most of the federal work force are NOT federal employees, but contractors who are paid on an hourly basis (not salary). The federal FTEs *might* get back pay if congress approves, but the contractors certainly won't.

Taco John
10-01-2013, 03:32 PM
ROFL! That's optimistic thinking and trust me, I wish that were the case. Instead this closure will end up costing the gov't more. Just watch the insanity.

I'd like to see everything on that list that is non-essential tossed down to the states.

spdirty
10-01-2013, 03:49 PM
Was hoping this shutdown would mean that CDOT inspectors couldn't work and would get off our backs. Damnit.

Pony Boy
10-01-2013, 07:01 PM
I'd like to see everything on that list that is non-essential tossed down to the states.

Is the White House Executive Chef considered an essential employee or is the First Lady going to have to breakout the pots and pans?

elsid13
10-02-2013, 02:31 AM
Is the White House Executive Chef considered an essential employee or is the First Lady going to have to breakout the pots and pans?

I know you are trying to be funny (and failing again), but members of support staff of the WH has been furloughed.

El Guapo
10-02-2013, 02:48 AM
Well shat. I was supposed to go to Denver this weekend for my cousins wedding. I've just been informed that if I take leave at any point during this I'll be furloughed for the remainder of the shutdown. Can't afford that. Sad cousin + expense for tickets. Not cool capital hill, not cool.

Taco John
10-02-2013, 02:55 AM
This is ultimately Obama's legacy. Obamacare is and will fail. When it does he'll only have himself to blame. Rahm Emanuel will be able to say I told you so...


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-barack-obama-obamacare-aca-97687.html?hp=t2_3

Rigs11
10-02-2013, 09:02 AM
You should stick to moderating. Your attempts at guessing outcomes sucks

Arkie
10-02-2013, 09:24 AM
I'd like to see everything on that list that is non-essential tossed down to the states.

Why is the Federal Government even providing non-essential services in the first place? Everything on that non-essential list can be handled by the states. Fountains, panda bears, and wineries are not essential for the federal government to operate.

Meck77
10-02-2013, 09:37 AM
Why is the Federal Government even providing non-essential services in the first place? Everything on that non-essential list can be handled by the states. Fountains, panda bears, and wineries are not essential for the federal government to operate.

I think if this shut down lasts any longer people at the state level will figure it out. Look at the Broncos for instance. No von miller, no champ, no problem! We are killing teams without them.

There is a group of people rallying around a park that was closed in my area. People are volunteering to do basic things already at ZERO cost to the taxpayers.

I realize this is difficult for the families losing a pay check but the reality is we don't need the feds to do everything and IT IS cheaper and more efficient to have states handle many of the shut down programs themselves which apply.

It's not always a bad thing to do without and to tighten one's belt. A couple week shut down will certainly hurt some but it could have benefits in other areas.

W*GS
10-02-2013, 09:40 AM
Why is the Federal Government even providing non-essential services in the first place? Everything on that non-essential list can be handled by the states. Fountains, panda bears, and wineries are not essential for the federal government to operate.

We already tried the "states run the show" idea. It was called "The Articles of Confederation" and it didn't work.

Perhaps you can explain why, if we rescind the Constitution and put the AoC back, it will work this time.

Arkie
10-02-2013, 09:56 AM
Let's not forget: Unemployment rate just doubled, meaning none of those people are getting paid, and none of the businesses that they patronize will be getting any profit from them for quite a while.


Unemployment checks will be mailed out on schedule.

Arkie
10-02-2013, 09:58 AM
We already tried the "states run the show" idea. It was called "The Articles of Confederation" and it didn't work.

Perhaps you can explain why, if we rescind the Constitution and put the AoC back, it will work this time.

Maybe the States can't run the show, but they can run the non-essentials.

BroncoBeavis
10-02-2013, 10:06 AM
I think if this shut down lasts any longer people at the state level will figure it out. Look at the Broncos for instance. No von miller, no champ, no problem! We are killing teams without them.

There is a group of people rallying around a park that was closed in my area. People are volunteering to do basic things already at ZERO cost to the taxpayers.

I realize this is difficult for the families losing a pay check but the reality is we don't need the feds to do everything and IT IS cheaper and more efficient to have states handle many of the shut down programs themselves which apply.

It's not always a bad thing to do without and to tighten one's belt. A couple week shut down will certainly hurt some but it could have benefits in other areas.

Never fear. Your benevolent federal government is working overtime to make sure the pain is felt.
http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/shutdown-overreach-more-guards-at-wwii-memorial-than-benghazi-park-service-closes-park-it-doesnt-run/article/2536710

In the real world this is known as criminal racketeering. In DC its called good politics.

Bronco Yoda
10-02-2013, 10:08 AM
You should stick to moderating. Your attempts at guessing outcomes sucks

Yeah, TJ isn't so good at this polito thing. I've never seen someone that's so interested in Politics and yet at the same time so clueless about big picture outcomes and ideas. It's very entertaining. He obviously knows governmental procedures. For some reason he just cant separate what he wants so badly to to be truth vs. whatever the reality on the ground is at the time.

Meck77
10-02-2013, 10:15 AM
Never fear. Your benevolent federal government is working overtime to make sure the pain is felt.
http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/shutdown-overreach-more-guards-at-wwii-memorial-than-benghazi-park-service-closes-park-it-doesnt-run/article/2536710

In the real world this is known as criminal racketeering. In DC its called good politics.


Wow....Correct me if I'm wrong but a bill was set fourth to open parks and pay vets but it was shot down.

Right now we have a pot that is boiling over. Just wait until one vets gets arrested or knocked out of his wheelchair trying to pay his respects.

Even Reid went on record saying its BS the memorials are closed even though they have always been open 24 hrs per day.

What a pile of **** our government has become. A leaders job is to bring people together. Sounds so cliche but never has our nation been this divided.

I realize obama and reid are frustrated but have you ever heard two American leaders whine on TV this much? Reid almost started crying because people were talking while he was talking on the floor yesterday. It's completely childish. Watch CSPAN for yourself. It's sad.

There is a reason our government is shut down. It's because BOTH parties have failed.

Pony Boy
10-02-2013, 10:21 AM
Wow....Correct me if I'm wrong but a bill was set fourth to open parks and pay vets but it was shot down.

Right now we have a pot that is boiling over. Just wait until one vets gets arrested or knocked out of his wheelchair trying to pay his respects.

Yes it's now a war........ House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called the effort "pathetic" and "not responsible," and encouraged all Democrats to vote no. "They took hostages by shutting down the government, and now they're releasing one hostage at a time," Pelosi said................Hilarious!

http://www.npr.org/2013/10/02/228376346/why-sen-cruz-looms-large-in-government-shutdown-drama

Bronco Yoda
10-02-2013, 10:44 AM
Yes it's now a war........ House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called the effort "pathetic" and "not responsible," and encouraged all Democrats to vote no. "They took hostages by shutting down the government, and now they're releasing one hostage at a time," Pelosi said................Hilarious!

http://www.npr.org/2013/10/02/228376346/why-sen-cruz-looms-large-in-government-shutdown-drama

LOL. Did you see Michelle Bachmann kissing vets yesterday. ROFL! I'll bet the Demo's send their own contingency out today. Let the games begin.

Did you see that over 70% of the intelligence service was furloughed. WoW. Thems allota analysts there.

alkemical
10-02-2013, 11:35 AM
The gov't shutdown doesn't slowdown the $2b NSA center opening up either.

Funny, seems there's money to go around...

Fedaykin
10-02-2013, 11:37 AM
Unemployment checks will be mailed out on schedule.

I'm talking about all the folks that just got put on furlough. They are most definitely NOT getting paid.

elsid13
10-02-2013, 01:36 PM
Not to mention most of the federal work force are NOT federal employees, but contractors who are paid on an hourly basis (not salary). The federal FTEs *might* get back pay if congress approves, but the contractors certainly won't.

If the contract has money on it, contractors were not sent home. They will still be paid to work, though smaller companies might have to take loan out because the payment process might be delayed.

elsid13
10-02-2013, 01:47 PM
Why is the Federal Government even providing non-essential services in the first place? Everything on that non-essential list can be handled by the states. Fountains, panda bears, and wineries are not essential for the federal government to operate.

The correct terms are exempt and non-exempt. There is to much confusion with the word "essential" and "non-essential" term used from 1980s HR process. If your job is in exempt status it means there is potential of immediate and sever impact to the mission or function of your agency/dept if it not performed. So if you are IT guy in charge of Information Assurance (IA) your agency/dept might deem you exempt because you exempt to ensue the IT security is being done and Chinese aren't hacking into Government Systems, but a Contract Officer or lawyer in the same agency/dept/org might not be exempt because your command/dept/agency can live with out contract being issue immediate during a shutdown. Both jobs are essential to the mission but one you can live with for couple of days if the government is closed down.

Any job that support Life/Safety or Health (first responders) are also consider exempt

Fedaykin
10-02-2013, 02:27 PM
If the contract has money on it, contractors were not sent home. They will still be paid to work, though smaller companies might have to take loan out because the payment process might be delayed.

Many contracts are a time & services based contract, which means the contract is paid out by hours actually worked. So, if you are a contractor who works in a federal building (as many do) that is currently shut down or the contract manager is on furlough, no matter if there is money in the contract, you can't work so your contract employer can't bill your time and thus you won't get paid unless the contract company decides to pay you out of it's own funds.

This is typically how the government procures employees for everything from groundskeepers to researchers, etc. (typically the only off limits positions for contractors are management positions, appointed positions, and certain sensitive positions) These contractors work along side federal employees as if they were fed employees. It's very much the same as contract employees in the private sector.

You're thinking of contractors that provide products under a contract, i.e. Boeing building military equipment with internal staff. They are quite fine, but those are not what I'm talking about.

elsid13
10-02-2013, 03:36 PM
Many contracts are a time & services based contract, which means the contract is paid out by hours actually worked. So, if you are a contractor who works in a federal building (as many do) that is currently shut down or the contract manager is on furlough, no matter if there is money in the contract, you can't work so your contract employer can't bill your time and thus you won't get paid unless the contract company decides to pay you out of it's own funds.

This is typically how the government procures employees for everything from groundskeepers to researchers, etc. (typically the only off limits positions for contractors are management positions, appointed positions, and certain sensitive positions) These contractors work along side federal employees as if they were fed employees. It's very much the same as contract employees in the private sector.

You're thinking of contractors that provide products under a contract, i.e. Boeing building military equipment with internal staff. They are quite fine, but those are not what I'm talking about.


I know how contracts work I am in charge of multiple ones (CPFF, FFP, T&M) and having been on both side of the fence. Even on T&M contract, the professional support services can be preformed even if the government is closed.

Fedaykin
10-02-2013, 06:05 PM
I know how contracts work I am in charge of multiple ones (CPFF, FFP, T&M) and having been on both side of the fence. Even on T&M contract, the professional support services can be preformed even if the government is closed.

Some of them can. Depends entirely on individual circumstances. In general, many can't. Like I said, if your workplace is shut down, you can't actually work. If you can't actually work, you aren't paid. It's that simple.

Bronco Yoda
10-02-2013, 07:33 PM
I realize this is difficult for the families losing a pay check but the reality is we don't need the feds to do everything and IT IS cheaper and more efficient to have states handle many of the shut down programs themselves which apply.

It's not always a bad thing to do without and to tighten one's belt. A couple week shut down will certainly hurt some but it could have benefits in other areas.

I'm sure people like Miss I. and others here REALLY appreciate this sentiment.

TonyR
10-03-2013, 09:01 AM
The entire premise of shutting the government down over Obamacare is that shutting the government down is bad and has bad consequences. The consequences were supposed to be so bad that Democrats flinch from the horrors being inflicted on the American public and agree to repeal the Affordable Care Act. For that to work, two things need to be the case. The first is that middle-class people must suffer from the absence of government services. The second is that middle-class people must turn their rage against the uninsured and demand the repeal of Obamacare rather than turning their rage against Republicans.

The problem for Republicans is that the shutdown is clearly—obviously and unambiguously—their fault, so the public’s rage is much more likely to turn against them. The small-batch funding idea is supposed to tone that rage down. But absent the rage, there’s no leverage. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/01/small_batch_appropriations_plan_new_gop_idea_makes _no_sense.html