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View Full Version : New Republican strategy to eliminate the CR and piecemeal the budget


Taco John
09-30-2013, 04:33 PM
So there's a new strategy making the rounds - we'll see soon how real it is. But basically it's this: rather than yielding to Reid and Obama's desire to shut down the government over a delay, the Republicans in the House may start to pass individual budget measures for essential things, and leave things that aren't deemed essential to just simply go without funding - perhaps even permanently.

In the process, Obamacare simply doesn't get funded, and the Republicans start efforts to advance their own plan which has been in development over the last several months.

Apparently the establishment Republicans like Peter King are howling over this, but Boehner is faced with either doing this, sitting on the bill he just proposed, or hitting the nuclear button and moving against the base and siding with the Democrats.

elsid13
09-30-2013, 04:36 PM
That won't play either. CR still need to go to the Senate, and they will just update the bills to reflect the all funding at FY13 levels. Thus sending the bill to conference.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 04:36 PM
It's good to see the Republicans working so hard to avoid the obstructionism of Obama and Reid.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 04:38 PM
That won't play either. CR still need to go to the Senate, and they will just update the bills to reflect the all funding at FY13 levels. Thus sending the bill to conference.

That's fine as far as the Republicans are concerned. It gives them plenty of cover with the public saying that they've offered everything, including obamacare funding in exchange for the same delay that big business got, as well as the point that they've also sent over several individual bills for essential services.

W*GS
09-30-2013, 04:47 PM
It's sad to see a libertarian suck up to the GOP.

elsid13
09-30-2013, 05:02 PM
It's good to see the Republicans working so hard to avoid the obstructionism of Obama and Reid.

Meanwhile in the real world moderate house republican are about to revolt because they are getting tried of House Republican Leadership tactics. That is according to CNN

houghtam
09-30-2013, 05:02 PM
So there's a new strategy making the rounds - we'll see soon how real it is. But basically it's this: rather than yielding to Reid and Obama's desire to shut down the government over a delay, the Republicans in the House may start to pass individual budget measures for essential things, and leave things that aren't deemed essential to just simply go without funding - perhaps even permanently.

In the process, Obamacare simply doesn't get funded, and the Republicans start efforts to advance their own plan which has been in development over the last several months.

Apparently the establishment Republicans like Peter King are howling over this, but Boehner is faced with either doing this, sitting on the bill he just proposed, or hitting the nuclear button and moving against the base and siding with the Democrats.

Stopped reading after this nonsense.

Hilarious!

houghtam
09-30-2013, 05:04 PM
Meanwhile in the real world moderate house republican are about to revolt because they are getting tried of House Republican Leadership tactics. That is according to CNN

Yeppers.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/30/first-on-cnn-moderate-house-republicans-working-to-line-up-votes-on-their-own-plan/?hpt=hp_t1

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 05:06 PM
It's good to see the Republicans working so hard to avoid the obstructionism of Obama and Reid.

:oyvey:

ant1999e
09-30-2013, 05:19 PM
Meanwhile in the real world moderate house republican are about to revolt because they are getting tried of House Republican Leadership tactics. That is according to CNN

Won't happen.

Miss I.
09-30-2013, 05:25 PM
It's not a new strategy. They did this in 2011 instead of actually doing a budget that year. That year we came about 3 days from shutting down. This government will shut down tomorrow. But you know, it's just the nonessential stuff. Really, they are giving people 2 days to leave the National parks if they are already there and shutting everyone else out. DC's trash won't get picked up (which explains why some of these asshats are still here, they didn't get picked up during the last government shut down in the 1990s). Depending on the length it will cost US taxpayers $1-2 billion just to shut and reopen the various impacted government agencies and put back to work the estimated 800, 000 to 1 million federal employees. All of whom already had 6 days of unpaid leave this fiscal year and have had a pay freeze for the last 4 years. On the upside the President and Congress will continue to get paid and keep some of their staff, though not all, only the ones deemed critical to wiping their asses or whatever. As far as I am concerned they are all asshats, but the Republicans in the House are the worst, between that dip****s 21 hour fillibuster and their last minute ditch efforts to stop Obamacare which is already law, voted in 3 years ago. And here's the really funny part, if it shuts down tomorrow (which I would guess it will) Obamacare will still roll out on time tomorrow.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 05:30 PM
It's sad to see a libertarian suck up to the GOP.

Suck up? We're trying to displace it and turn it into a party that can house libertarians. It's working great so far.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 05:31 PM
Meanwhile in the real world moderate house republican are about to revolt because they are getting tried of House Republican Leadership tactics. That is according to CNN

This is actually what I hope happens. This would be a great result because it would give us a primary list in the House to match the one that was just collected in the Senate. It would make 2014 that much more interesting.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 06:07 PM
So there's a new strategy making the rounds - we'll see soon how real it is. But basically it's this: rather than yielding to Reid and Obama's desire to shut down the government over a delay, the Republicans in the House may start to pass individual budget measures for essential things, and leave things that aren't deemed essential to just simply go without funding - perhaps even permanently.

In the process, Obamacare simply doesn't get funded, and the Republicans start efforts to advance their own plan which has been in development over the last several months.

Apparently the establishment Republicans like Peter King are howling over this, but Boehner is faced with either doing this, sitting on the bill he just proposed, or hitting the nuclear button and moving against the base and siding with the Democrats.

you must have missed the memo,rethugs are forcing a shut down either that or just like any typical rep you want the shut down but not the responsibility of owning it. fortunately a majority of people see right through it.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 06:08 PM
This is actually what I hope happens. This would be a great result because it would give us a primary list in the House to match the one that was just collected in the Senate. It would make 2014 that much more interesting.

yes a bigger majority for us in the senate and we'll take back the house.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 06:09 PM
Won't happen.

6 rethugs have already defected, maybe enough will by midnight.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 06:13 PM
you must have missed the memo,rethugs are forcing a shut down either that or just like any typical rep you want the shut down but not the responsibility of owning it. fortunately a majority of people see right through it.

Actually polls are showing the GOP and Obama receiving the blame within the margin of error.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 06:14 PM
6 rethugs have already defected, maybe enough will by midnight.

It completely failed. Only 2 establishment republicans voted no and 4 other voted no because they didn't think the anti-Obamacare language in the CR was strong enough.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 06:22 PM
Actually polls are showing the GOP and Obama receiving the blame within the margin of error.

post the links. the link I posted shows its not within a marjin of error.

Miss I.
09-30-2013, 06:22 PM
Actually most articles I've seen lay it on the Republicans:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/30/government-shutdown-blame-republicans-polls/2897197/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/09/30/227849345/whos-likely-to-lose-the-shutdown-blame-game

http://news.yahoo.com/government-shutdown-poll-134003896.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/us-usa-fiscal-poll-idUSBRE98T0J720130930

This article is not a poll, but more or less lays the blame on both sides which frankly is is the fault of all of them: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/30/government-shutdown-healthcare-spending-analysis

But to say polls support the Republicans is erroneous.

On the other hand, the blame game is pointless. Frankly they all need to sack up and work it out. Congress has had the damned budget since February when it was submitted. They dragged this out on purpose to push their agenda. More than one of those asses is planninga bid for President and they think this will get that them there. This could've been dealt with a long time ago, but instead they all took their vacations and screwed around and fillibusterd for 21 hours reading Dr. Seuss to deliberately take advanatage of this. In the 1990s this resulted in a turnover against the Republicans. It probably will again.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 06:27 PM
Pew is the only poll out there within margin of error.

Now we'll get to hear all about how the polls are wrong, as if the punch in the face last November wasn't enough.

Keep it coming, TJ :)

ant1999e
09-30-2013, 06:36 PM
Yeppers.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/30/first-on-cnn-moderate-house-republicans-working-to-line-up-votes-on-their-own-plan/?hpt=hp_t1

Your link must have updated...

Rigs11
09-30-2013, 06:45 PM
The teabaggers have taken over your party.say goodbye to 2014.boner has sided with the wackos

houghtam
09-30-2013, 06:46 PM
The teabaggers have taken over your party.say goodbye to 2014.boner has sided with the wackos

For now...

gyldenlove
09-30-2013, 07:33 PM
Since the ACA is funded largely through Medicaid and Medicare it can't be defunded simply by not funding it without defunding medicaid and medicare.

Taco John
09-30-2013, 07:35 PM
Pew is the only poll out there within margin of error.

Now we'll get to hear all about how the polls are wrong, as if the punch in the face last November wasn't enough.

Keep it coming, TJ :)

THe only poll I care about is the one in 2014.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 07:41 PM
THe only poll I care about is the one in 2014.

Ah, yes. That saying was quite popular prior to Election Day too.

Then why bring it up?

Irish Stout
09-30-2013, 08:14 PM
So there's a new strategy making the rounds - we'll see soon how real it is. But basically it's this: rather than yielding to Reid and Obama's desire to shut down the government over a delay, the Republicans in the House may start to pass individual budget measures for essential things, and leave things that aren't deemed essential to just simply go without funding - perhaps even permanently.

In the process, Obamacare simply doesn't get funded, and the Republicans start efforts to advance their own plan which has been in development over the last several months.

Apparently the establishment Republicans like Peter King are howling over this, but Boehner is faced with either doing this, sitting on the bill he just proposed, or hitting the nuclear button and moving against the base and siding with the Democrats.

You're kidding right?

ACA was essentially cobbled together in 2009 with help and direction on both sides of the aisle. It was enacted in March, 2010... there have been 3 years to get it together on this. Apparently that was not enough of a delay... Many on the right have been screaming from day 1 about "death panels" and telling young people to not get health insurance. Its silly.

It is the law and there aren't enough votes to overturn it. Putting the blame on the party that wants the law that is already in effect to continue is bizarre to me. Claiming the ACA is crap isn't bizarre. But this is not the way to play the game and most people know that. Polls reflect this, Republicans know this. This is stupid. It is essentially the same as quitting in the middle of a basketball game and walking home with the ball.

Everyone should take their lumps now accept what is, allow the game/government to go on, then come up with a better plan to try and replace the ACA. Garner the votes. Establish a better plan. Put it on the table.

Everyone sucks. Everyone loses.

pricejj
09-30-2013, 08:39 PM
Everyone sucks. Everyone loses.

The American people win if they aren't forced to purchase insurance from Obama and Reid.


To all my fellow patriots: HOLD THE LINE!!

Miss I.
09-30-2013, 08:42 PM
(BREAKING NEWS: House Republicans decided they would not attempt to pass any more bills late Monday to fund the government, setting in motion the first shutdown of federal agencies since 1996, according to two senior GOP advisers. The shutdown will begin early Tuesday. This story will be updated.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/washington-braces-for-the-first-shutdown-of-the-national-government-in-17-years/2013/09/30/977ebca2-29bd-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_story.html

houghtam
09-30-2013, 08:43 PM
The American people win if they aren't forced to purchase insurance from Obama and Reid.


To all my fellow patriots: HOLD THE LINE!!

:spit:

Taco John
09-30-2013, 08:44 PM
ACA was essentially cobbled together in 2009 with help and direction on both sides of the aisle.

Just to be clear - not a single Republican voted for it on either side of the aisle - which is why we are where we are today. If Republicans had been invested into this bill, then it wouldn't even be an issue. This is what happens when you use any means necessary to get legislation passed - you get any means necessary politics to counter it.

This is just a matter of political physics.

And for the record, at this point, I don't think the Republicans are going to release funding on it. I think that if this thing gets funded it will happen after the 2014 election. I think they'll peicemeal the funding grants, and everything will become a debate - the way it should be.

Hotwheelz
09-30-2013, 08:52 PM
The American people win if they aren't forced to purchase insurance from Obama and Reid.


To all my fellow patriots: HOLD THE LINE!!

You do that, Braveheart. You stop sick people from buying private health insurance.

pricejj
09-30-2013, 08:58 PM
Let it be stated, that all we wish for is liberty.


And this, you shall not take.

Hotwheelz
09-30-2013, 09:00 PM
Let it be stated, that all we wish for is liberty.


And this, you shall not take.

What's your opinion on seatbelt laws?

pricejj
09-30-2013, 09:01 PM
You do that, Braveheart. You stop sick people from buying private health insurance.

Sick people can begin to purchase subsidized private insurance tomorrow morning, regardless of whether you force certain American's to purchase insurance or not.

Is this something you deny?

Hotwheelz
09-30-2013, 09:12 PM
Sick people can begin to purchase subsidized private insurance tomorrow morning, regardless of whether you force certain American's to purchase insurance or not.

Is this something you deny?

Nope, you want to defund the ACA. I know they can buy insurance regardless of a shutdown.

To think that the individual mandate is a serious deprivation of your liberties when you could just ignore it and pay the fine is just silly. Seriously, you're being silly.

Want to repeal the law? Win the election.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 09:14 PM
What's your opinion on seatbelt laws?

:)

You're absolutely right. If I don't want to wear a seatbelt, I shouldn't have to, and if I don't I have to pay a fine.

SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT UNTIL WE CAN REPEAL THEM!

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 09:16 PM
For over ten years I listened to Right Wingers extolling the virtues of mandates. Finally, THEIR Heritage Foundation health care program gets passed and what do they do? Try to shut down the government to stop the mandates. Why? Because a bunch of libertarian radicals and tea baggers now jerk the chains that control their party. The only thing that makes sense is all the reporters tweeting that the smell of alcohol in the building is rampant. That explains much of what is happening. A radical minority can bring down our government without firing a shot and the majority can do nothing about it. That's some "libertarianism" for you: "Don't like our ideas? Tough ****. We're going to shove them down your throat whether you like it or not... in the name of liberty." :rofl:

pricejj
09-30-2013, 09:26 PM
Nope, you want to defund the ACA. I know they can buy insurance regardless of a shutdown.

To think that the individual mandate is a serious deprivation of your liberties when you could just ignore it and pay the fine is just silly. Seriously, you're being silly.

Want to repeal the law? Win the election.

The Revolutionary War was started over a MUCH smaller fine. Would you call those brave men and women...silly?

We did win the election, and that's why we control the House.

You can pay your fine, I politely refuse.

Do you think your law eliminates death? Indeed, it does not. In fact, the only thing it succeeds in doing is attempting to destroy liberty. And this, you shall not take.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 09:30 PM
The Revolutionary War was started over a MUCH smaller fine. Would you call those brave men and women...silly?

We did win the election, and that's why we control the House.

You can pay your fine, I politely refuse.

Do you think your law eliminates death? Indeed, it does not. In fact, the only thing it succeeds in doing is attempting to destroy liberty. And this, you shall not take.

Bend over and get ready, buddy. You're going to lose, and it's going to be Jared Crick all over again up in here.

LOL

pricejj
09-30-2013, 09:32 PM
What's your opinion on seatbelt laws?

There is no Democrat mandate to purchase bronze-plated seatbelts.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 09:34 PM
So Price, buddy...

Are you seriously saying that when...not IF, but when the individual mandate goes into effect, you're not going to purchase insurance and not going to pay the tax required by law?

Or do you already have insurance and you're just a big puss blowing a lot of smoke?

ROFL!

pricejj
09-30-2013, 09:37 PM
Bend over and get ready, buddy.

LOL

What you do in your life does not affect me in any way, and it never will.

Hotwheelz
09-30-2013, 09:46 PM
The Revolutionary War was started over a MUCH smaller fine. Would you call those brave men and women...silly?

We did win the election, and that's why we control the House.

You can pay your fine, I politely refuse.

Do you think your law eliminates death? Indeed, it does not. In fact, the only thing it succeeds in doing is attempting to destroy liberty. And this, you shall not take.

You don't have the senate or white house, that's 2/3rds that you didn't win.

Did you seriously compare this to the revolutionary war? With a straight face? Like, the war that established our independence? No taxation without representation? Quartering soldiers in homes? That war?

Prevent death? What in the holy spaghetti monster are you talking about? Do you think seatbelt laws destroy liberty? If you're in a car accident and rack up a 100k hospital bill you can't pay and don't have insurance who do you think ends up footing the bill? Taxpayers. That's why there's a fine. Your decision affects more than just yourself. Stop being silly and stop using hyperbole.

ant1999e
09-30-2013, 09:56 PM
You do that, Braveheart. You stop forcing healthy young people to buy private health insurance they don't want or need.

FYP

pricejj
09-30-2013, 10:05 PM
You don't have the senate or white house, that's 2/3rds that you didn't win.

We won the 1/3 that controls spending. Congratulations, you won the 2/3 that hasn't done anything lately.

Did you seriously compare this to the revolutionary war? With a straight face? Like, the war that established our independence? No taxation without representation? Quartering soldiers in homes? That war?

You called me silly, and you called your tax insignificant. I told you that the Revolutionary War was started over a smaller tax. What you do with that information is up to you.

Prevent death? What in the holy spaghetti monster are you talking about? Do you think seatbelt laws destroy liberty?

Once again, there is not an individual mandate for me to purchase a bronze-plated seat belt. If you want to pass one, go ahead.

You truly think your law saves money? In fact, that has been disproven.

If you're in a car accident and rack up a 100k hospital bill you can't pay and don't have insurance who do you think ends up footing the bill? Taxpayers. That's why there's a fine. Your decision affects more than just yourself. Stop being silly and stop using hyperbole.

I have close to $100k in assets, that I can liquify if necessary. Don't worry, you won't be paying for me for anything. However, I reserve the right to purchase health insurance if I so choose. In fact, I could purchase catastrophic accident insurance for 9 cents per paycheck if I want, many employers offer similar plans.

Miss I.
09-30-2013, 10:11 PM
well it's done now. Federal Government is closed for business.

pricejj
09-30-2013, 10:14 PM
I've been paying for Medicare to the US Government my entire adult life. If I ever require a $100k hospital life in my life (which is highly unlikely). I already have Medicare insurance in case I get a disability and cannot work.

I've also been paying for Medicaid my entire adult life to the State of Colorado. Surely, my Medicaid insurance would cover me in case I am disabled and cannot work.


Yes, I have been paying my taxes for insurance already. Everybody who has a job has to pay them.

Now you want to me to purchase a 3rd form of insurance, and pay more taxes for your massively overpriced healthcare? I don't think so.

W*GS
09-30-2013, 10:18 PM
Suck up? We're trying to displace it and turn it into a party that can house libertarians. It's working great so far.

So sad you're so naive. You're being used worse than a two-bit whore.

pricejj
09-30-2013, 10:19 PM
well it's done now. Federal Government is closed for business.

And the world continues to revolve without a hitch!


The Federal Government is 60% operational, and is indeed open for business. All essential services remain untouched.

Doesn't it feel great to not be getting in deeper debt every single day?


Aaaaaaahhhh feels good!

houghtam
09-30-2013, 10:21 PM
And the world continues to revolve without a hitch!


The Federal Government is 60% operational, and is indeed open for business. All essential services remain untouched.

Doesn't it feel great to not be getting in deeper debt every single day?


Aaaaaaahhhh feels good!

You do realize the shutdown will actually contribute more to the debt, right?

Man, you're dense.

ant1999e
09-30-2013, 10:22 PM
You do realize the shutdown will actually contribute more to the debt, right?

Man, you're dense.

And Obamacare won't?

Miss I.
09-30-2013, 10:28 PM
Shutdown costs $1-2 billion dollars depending on length of closure and that is just the shut down and restart of the agencies closed. All the secretaries, admin staff are furloughed. These people make only $25K a year and you dont' think they won't get ****ed by this. They've already been furloughed 6 days this year, additionally 4 years of no pay raises despite cost of living increases. Now in addition as long as they don't make this agreement, the debt ceiling is probably going to fail which means the USG will default on many loans throwing our economy into a tailspin. Yes by all means look at the short term with no actual comprehension for the long term and even short term damage this will cause.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 10:28 PM
And Obamacare won't?

The shutdown isn't going to affect the ACA.

Miss I.
09-30-2013, 10:29 PM
I know isn't that funny. Federal employees will go in and be put on furlough but Obamacare will roll out tomorrow. People really don't get that what the Republicans did was shut down people already struggling in this economy after being furloughed already. They had 3 years to sort this out and chose now to try to kill it and they failed.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 10:35 PM
Shutdown costs $1-2 billion dollars depending on length of closure and that is just the shut down and restart of the agencies closed. All the secretaries, admin staff are furloughed. These people make only $25K a year and you dont' think they won't get ****ed by this. They've already been furloughed 6 days this year, additionally 4 years of no pay raises despite cost of living increases. Now in addition as long as they don't make this agreement, the debt ceiling is probably going to fail which means the USG will default on many loans throwing our economy into a tailspin. Yes by all means look at the short term with no actual comprehension for the long term and even short term damage this will cause.

The Rethugs don't care about the little guy, Miss I! Did you see the amendment they added to the latest iteration of their foolishness?

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/obamacare-employer-contribution-exemption-vitter-amendment%20

Even TJs hero Rand Paul thought it was a low blow.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) told ABC that bumping up health care costs for staffers was "probably not a good idea," adding that low-paid staffers will "suffer."

And yet there are some people who think the Rs are doing this because they care about the little guy.

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 11:17 PM
We won the 1/3 that controls spending. Congratulations, you won the 2/3 that hasn't done anything lately.



You called me silly, and you called your tax insignificant. I told you that the Revolutionary War was started over a smaller tax. What you do with that information is up to you.



Once again, there is not an individual mandate for me to purchase a bronze-plated seat belt. If you want to pass one, go ahead.

You truly think your law saves money? In fact, that has been disproven.



I have close to $100k in assets, that I can liquify if necessary. Don't worry, you won't be paying for me for anything. However, I reserve the right to purchase health insurance if I so choose. In fact, I could purchase catastrophic accident insurance for 9 cents per paycheck if I want, many employers offer similar plans.

Ha! I work in a hospital. You go into the ER, you can blow through that $100k in an afternoon. Then what? :rofl:

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 11:19 PM
Shutdown costs $1-2 billion dollars depending on length of closure and that is just the shut down and restart of the agencies closed. All the secretaries, admin staff are furloughed. These people make only $25K a year and you dont' think they won't get ****ed by this. They've already been furloughed 6 days this year, additionally 4 years of no pay raises despite cost of living increases. Now in addition as long as they don't make this agreement, the debt ceiling is probably going to fail which means the USG will default on many loans throwing our economy into a tailspin. Yes by all means look at the short term with no actual comprehension for the long term and even short term damage this will cause.

That's okay. The banks will be able to pick up some more houses on the cheap.

pricejj
10-01-2013, 12:21 AM
Ha! I work in a hospital. You go into the ER, you can blow through that $100k in an afternoon. Then what? :rofl:

Do what Obamacare does! Throw more money at it!

Obamacare makes the world's most expensive healthcare system cost even more. Yippee!!!

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 08:58 AM
Do what Obamacare does! Throw more money at it!

Obamacare makes the world's most expensive healthcare system cost even more. Yippee!!!

Yeah, the gouging of Big Pharma, the medical devices industry and Big Insurance have nothing to do with it. It's all Obama's fault. Thanks, Obama! :spit:

gyldenlove
10-01-2013, 10:21 AM
Just to be clear - not a single Republican voted for it on either side of the aisle - which is why we are where we are today. If Republicans had been invested into this bill, then it wouldn't even be an issue. This is what happens when you use any means necessary to get legislation passed - you get any means necessary politics to counter it.

This is just a matter of political physics.

And for the record, at this point, I don't think the Republicans are going to release funding on it. I think that if this thing gets funded it will happen after the 2014 election. I think they'll peicemeal the funding grants, and everything will become a debate - the way it should be.

Taco, the ACA is funded through medicare and medicaid, it is not funded through apropriations. There is no way congress can not fund it, that is why they want to delay it - if not funding it was an option it would be easy for them.

B-Large
10-01-2013, 10:25 AM
Ha! I work in a hospital. You go into the ER, you can blow through that $100k in an afternoon. Then what? :rofl:

Statistically he will get cancer or have a heart attack.... 100k will be gone for cancer treatment, and a few days in cardiac ICU should blow through his assets pretty quickly... After that, probably begging to get on the public dole to save his life... That's what all the hardliners at my hospital do... Hardcore until lung cancer is stealing your breathe, then all the sudden Socialsim is a pretty good option...

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 10:38 AM
Statistically he will get cancer or have a heart attack.... 100k will be gone for cancer treatment, and a few days in cardiac ICU should blow through his assets pretty quickly... After that, probably begging to get on the public dole to save his life... That's what all the hardliners at my hospital do... Hardcore until lung cancer is stealing your breathe, then all the sudden Socialsim is a pretty good option...

Yep. I see it every day. People come in and say, "I've been paying into health insurance for thirty years and never used it! I'm totally covered."

Then I say, "Yes. Your insurance is paying $325,000 of your bill. You owe the other $125,000. Will that be a check, or money order?"

The worst ones are the obvious Republicans who discover they have to file for disability. Then, they discover what a tiny amount of money that is and say, "I can't live on that." I think to myself, how strange. The Right Wingers you keep electing want to cut even that, and give the rich another tax break.

Rigs11
10-01-2013, 10:49 AM
meh. just don't get sick. solves everything.Hilarious!What does the GOP care anyways, they still have health insurance and they still get payed with the shutdown.

Rigs11
10-01-2013, 10:58 AM
Thanks Obama!Hilarious!


Republicans in Congress also got record-low marks in the poll. Just 17 percent of Americans approved of the job GOP lawmakers were doing, and 74 percent disapproved. That’s the lowest approval ever in Quinnipiac’s polling, and is down from August and July this summer.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/congress-approval-government-shutdown-2013-97617.html#ixzz2gUSkP9qh

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 12:23 PM
Like Bill Maher says: Republican health care plan - Die.

Taco John
10-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Like Bill Maher says: Republican health care plan - Die.

Actually, that's not true. They've got a pretty decent alternative to Obamacare:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf

It's my understanding that once they get Obamacare tabled, they'll start putting more focus on it and use 2014 (if they win the referendum) as a mandate to replace Obamacare with it.

elsid13
10-01-2013, 12:59 PM
Actually, that's not true. They've got a pretty decent alternative to Obamacare:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf

It's my understanding that once they get Obamacare tabled, they'll start putting more focus on it and use 2014 (if they win the referendum) as a mandate to replace Obamacare with it.

I have swampland to sell you in Florida. If they had another alternative they would have rolled it out already to "sell" to the public.

I now firmly believe they don't care about Obamacare or anything else. They are so indoctrinated with the false Aryn Rand belief system, that all they want to do is close the federal government and nothing else matters.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 01:00 PM
Actually, that's not true. They've got a pretty decent alternative to Obamacare:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf

It's my understanding that once they get Obamacare tabled, they'll start putting more focus on it and use 2014 (if they win the referendum) as a mandate to replace Obamacare with it.

Hate to tell you, but that write up is so vague as to be meaningless.

Take this one line, Makes it easier for Americans to keep health care coverage regardless of a change in or loss of a job.

Huh? What does that mean? How do you do that?

The only thing I understood was this first provision for lowering costs: Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who currently do not have employer-provided insurance but purchase health insurance on their own. This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

Sounds like another tax cut for the rich.

Taco John
10-01-2013, 02:04 PM
Hate to tell you, but that write up is so vague as to be meaningless.

Take this one line, Makes it easier for Americans to keep health care coverage regardless of a change in or loss of a job.

Huh? What does that mean? How do you do that?

The only thing I understood was this first provision for lowering costs: Brings greater fairness to the tax code by extending tax savings to those who currently do not have employer-provided insurance but purchase health insurance on their own. This provision would provide an “above the line” deduction that is equal to the cost of an individual’s or family’s insurance premiums.

Sounds like another tax cut for the rich.

It's not intended to be a solutions brief. It's a plan overview. Of course the devils are in the detail. As a government program, I don't have a lot of faith in it, but given the awful rollout happening today, how could it be worse?

Obamacare is crushing for small businesses. I don't know how anyone can even start a new business in this environment. This thing is going to be a drag on the economy if we let it continue.

I personally think it has a strong chance of repeal after 2014.

peacepipe
10-01-2013, 02:08 PM
It's not intended to be a solutions brief. It's a plan overview. Of course the devils are in the detail. As a government program, I don't have a lot of faith in it, but given the awful rollout happening today, how could it be worse?

Obamacare is crushing for small businesses. I don't know how anyone can even start a new business in this environment. This thing is going to be a drag on the economy if we let it continue.

I personally think it has a strong chance of repeal after 2014.

how you figure? dems will probably control all 3 house come 2014.

peacepipe
10-01-2013, 02:12 PM
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/01/2014-warning-poll-democrats-win-republicans-43-34.html

Shutdown polling has grim news for Republicans. 72% oppose GOP shutdown strategy to block ObamaCare, including 44% of Republicans. Three-in-four independents (74%-19%) object.

But even worse, conventional wisdom that Republicans’ shutdown could not harm them in the midterms because only older white people vote in midterms, especially in the midterm of a president’s second term, is not as sure of a bet as the beltway has assured the GOP.

A new Quinnipiac poll shows voters picking a generic Democrat over a generic Republican 43% to 34%, which they point out is the widest Democratic margin measured so far.

houghtam
10-01-2013, 02:21 PM
It's not intended to be a solutions brief. It's a plan overview. Of course the devils are in the detail. As a government program, I don't have a lot of faith in it, but given the awful rollout happening today, how could it be worse?

Obamacare is crushing for small businesses. I don't know how anyone can even start a new business in this environment. This thing is going to be a drag on the economy if we let it continue.

I personally think it has a strong chance of repeal after 2014.

The ACA only effects .12% of small businesses. (97% are under 50 employees, 96% of those with over 50 employees already offer insurance)

"Crushing?" No.

Rigs11
10-01-2013, 02:23 PM
Taco is dreaming if he thinks this is going to help the snobs on the right. move on righties, obamacare is rolling out, your shutdown does nothing but reinforce your lack of morality for the american public.it does nothing but reinforce that your party is controlled by extermists.it does nothing but reinforce you as sore losers.

MplsBronco
10-01-2013, 02:34 PM
TJ is about as good at this political thing as he is at evaluating Bronco QBs.

Taco John
10-01-2013, 03:31 PM
how you figure? dems will probably control all 3 house come 2014.

If you say so. When is the last time the democrats managed to turn out a voting base during a mid term?

peacepipe
10-01-2013, 03:57 PM
If you say so. When is the last time the democrats managed to turn out a voting base during a mid term?

counting on low turn out is always a good strategy, it worked in 2010.

Mr.Meanie
10-01-2013, 03:59 PM
It's not intended to be a solutions brief. It's a plan overview. Of course the devils are in the detail. As a government program, I don't have a lot of faith in it, but given the awful rollout happening today, how could it be worse?

Obamacare is crushing for small businesses. I don't know how anyone can even start a new business in this environment. This thing is going to be a drag on the economy if we let it continue.

I personally think it has a strong chance of repeal after 2014.

How is that? How many startups begin with 50+ FTE's?

peacepipe
10-01-2013, 04:41 PM
How is that? How many startups begin with 50+ FTE's?apparently all of them according to TJ.

frerottenextelway
10-02-2013, 11:34 PM
So there's a new strategy making the rounds - we'll see soon how real it is. But basically it's this: rather than yielding to Reid and Obama's desire to shut down the government over a delay, the Republicans in the House may start to pass individual budget measures for essential things, and leave things that aren't deemed essential to just simply go without funding - perhaps even permanently.

In the process, Obamacare simply doesn't get funded, and the Republicans start efforts to advance their own plan which has been in development over the last several months.

Apparently the establishment Republicans like Peter King are howling over this, but Boehner is faced with either doing this, sitting on the bill he just proposed, or hitting the nuclear button and moving against the base and siding with the Democrats.

How'd that work out? Looks like Obamacare is still fully funded and the GOP looks like d-cks to the public. Who could've saw that coming?

houghtam
10-03-2013, 12:14 AM
How'd that work out? Looks like Obamacare is still fully funded and the GOP looks like d-cks to the public. Who could've saw that coming?

Meeeeee! I saw it coming.

TJ is a rank amateur when it comes to politics.

No wonder there's a policy on callout threads on this site.



....hear me now and believe me later, though.

LOL

Taco John
10-03-2013, 02:41 AM
I'm not sure what you're talking about. So far this has played out exactly like I had stated, though I didn't go so far as to predict that we'd actually shut down the government. Everything else has been spot on, from the filibuster, to the tactics that led to Monday night.

Your whole "oh look the Republicans look like jerks." Guess what? They look like jerks before this all went down. And as for my part, I couldn't care less how the Republicans look - I haven't voted for a single Republican president in my entire voting life. I hate most of these guys just as much or more than most of the liberals on this site.

That said, this is some of the best political theatre in the last hundred years. I had a small window of insight leading into this, and nailed it point for point, but I couldn't guess where it goes from here given how squishy the situation is.

In my opinion, history will remember this as something Obama created with his tactics to pass healthcare reform with zero republican buy-in. But there's a lot of history still to happen before that becomes retrospectively clear.

I'm not sure what's wrong with you. You can't have a conversation about politics without needing to make it personal. While you attack me, I've leveled exactly zero personal attacks on anyone else, choosing instead to focus on the events that are happening. So go ahead "call me out." What do I care? I'm focused on the substance and couldn't care less about your silly personal attacks.

Taco John
10-03-2013, 02:52 AM
How'd that work out? Looks like Obamacare is still fully funded and the GOP looks like d-cks to the public. Who could've saw that coming?

It worked out pretty good actually. Reid looked pretty silly denying healthcare to those needing it from the NIH, and the veteran thing is being pointed at Obama. The Republicans did a really good job with the visuals on that one. You must have thought that I thought that it would be a home run or something? I was just reporting on the tactic because this place seems more interested in bickering with each other than actually following politics. The circle jerk aside, I noted that my threads following the actual happenings of the day make up the top three threads, so I must be doing something right.

In any case, I'm not sure why you think the GOP is looking all that bad. I can only guess that you're getting all your news from a liberal echo chamber. My political news surfing takes a pretty broad path, and it's not looking as bad for the Republicans as you think it is. Pretty well, both sides are taking plenty of hits out there - though not on MSNBC, where Republicans are taking 100% of the blame. No one cares about MSNBC except the wonkiest of political wonks, which include me - I am an avid follower of Morning Joe, Hardball, and Maddow.

This has the potential of going on for some time. They're talking about a grand bargain, but Boehner will be seen as a loser unless he walks away with a year delay in the individual mandate. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to go off the fiscal cliff.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 08:55 AM
I agree that it was a mistake, politically, for Obama to shove through this plan without minority support, but on the other hand, I doubt we've had this kind of radical extremism from a minority party since the Civil War. This isn't like the old days when Reagan would have Tip O'Neill over for lunch. Those days are gone. The two parties get in a room now and the radical Right Wingers just say, "Agree with us or we leave." That's their position on pretty much every issue.

I always remember the story of Gingrich, when he had all the power, sitting down to meetings with the Dems (who were then in the minority in both houses). The Rethuglicans would discuss the issue without asking the Dems for a single opinion, and when they left the room, Gingrich turned out the lights, leaving the Dems in darkness. This **** has been going on for a long time. The Right Wing caucus has no intention of making even the slightest compromise on any issue. Like the congressman from Indiana said yesterday, they know they're going to get something out of this, they're just not sure what, yet. Partisanship for partisanship's sake. Obama is right on this one, the ideologues are wagging Boehner.

TonyR
10-03-2013, 09:34 AM
There is some sanity on the right. Not much, but some.

When I think of the Republican Party, I don’t think of principled conservative legislators who are men and women of vision strategy. I think of ideologues who are prepared to wreck things to get their way. They have confused prudence — the queen of virtues, and the cardinal virtue of conservative politics — with weakness. I know I’m very much a minority among conservatives in this, but the behavior of Congressional Republicans pushed me out of the party two years ago, even though I almost always vote Republican, or withhold my vote.

I am not a liberal, and do not want to vote for liberals, especially on social policy. But I told a Louisiana conservative friend the other day that the Congressional Republicans are making me consider the previously unthinkable: throwing my vote away by voting for a Democrat in the special election next month to replace my GOP congressman, who just resigned to take another job. The GOP candidates in this local race are hot and heavy to overthrow Obamacare. I think about how poor this district is — 26 percent of the district lives in poverty, making it one of the poorest Congressional districts in America — and how badly we need jobs and economic growth, and I think: What kind of world do these people live in? http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/republicans-over-the-cliff/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=republicans-over-the-cliff

BroncoBeavis
10-03-2013, 09:47 AM
I agree that it was a mistake, politically, for Obama to shove through this plan without minority support, but on the other hand, I doubt we've had this kind of radical extremism from a minority party since the Civil War. This isn't like the old days when Reagan would have Tip O'Neill over for lunch. Those days are gone. The two parties get in a room now and the radical Right Wingers just say, "Agree with us or we leave." That's their position on pretty much every issue.

I always remember the story of Gingrich, when he had all the power, sitting down to meetings with the Dems (who were then in the minority in both houses). The Rethuglicans would discuss the issue without asking the Dems for a single opinion, and when they left the room, Gingrich turned out the lights, leaving the Dems in darkness. This **** has been going on for a long time. The Right Wing caucus has no intention of making even the slightest compromise on any issue. Like the congressman from Indiana said yesterday, they know they're going to get something out of this, they're just not sure what, yet. Partisanship for partisanship's sake. Obama is right on this one, the ideologues are wagging Boehner.

Tip O'Neill shut down the government seven times during Reagans 8 years. Like many other things this particular outrage du jour is deeply partisan.

BroncoBeavis
10-03-2013, 09:58 AM
http://mobile.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2013/09/30/why-president-obama-and-democrats-want-a-government-shutdown

The real story is a lot more complicated than that. To find the real start date, one has to go all the way to the Reagan administration when congressional Democrats under the late Thomas P. "Tip" O'Neill realized the only way to keep the liberal welfare state afloat against the onslaught of Reaganism was to abandon the law governing the spending process. Instead of budgets and authorization bills and appropriations, O'Neill and company forced on Reagan massive, year-long continuing resolutions full of things that had never been taken up before just before zero hour. They gave the president a choice: Sign it or the government shuts down.

This was the beginning of the breakdown of regular order in federal spending. It has progressed to the point where both sides have routinely used it as a strategy to force concessions from the president to raise spending, when the Democrats were in charge on Capitol Hill, and to lower it when the Republicans were in the majority.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 01:48 PM
Tip O'Neill shut down the government seven times during Reagans 8 years. Like many other things this particular outrage du jour is deeply partisan.

Go back and look at those shutdowns. They were over budget numbers. Some of them lasted only hours. Most lasted no more than two days. One was because they just didn't get around to it. Was there a single shutdown like this, where extremists held the country hostage in order to take down a law they didn't like? Nope. And you don't think the extremists won't do the same thing about the debt ceiling? Another case of false equivalency.

Taco John
10-03-2013, 02:08 PM
Go back and look at those shutdowns. They were over budget numbers. Some of them lasted only hours. Most lasted no more than two days. One was because they just didn't get around to it. Was there a single shutdown like this, where extremists held the country hostage in order to take down a law they didn't like? Nope. And you don't think the extremists won't do the same thing about the debt ceiling? Another case of false equivalency.

I don't see the difference. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

BroncoBeavis
10-03-2013, 02:22 PM
Go back and look at those shutdowns. They were over budget numbers. Some of them lasted only hours. Most lasted no more than two days. One was because they just didn't get around to it. Was there a single shutdown like this, where extremists held the country hostage in order to take down a law they didn't like? Nope. And you don't think the extremists won't do the same thing about the debt ceiling? Another case of false equivalency.

I think I heard that the government was shut down for 12 total days during Reagan's term.

And you can make anything about the "budget" if you want to frame it that way.

Anyway, read the article again. Tip basically inserted all the controversial stuff last minute so he could "hold the country hostage" over things Reagan would've otherwise never supported. World's smallest Violin is playing. Playing for the Democrats crying while reaping what they sowed.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 03:24 PM
It's easy to learn if you pay attention. Previous shutdowns, from Carter on up, were over actual budget items still under contention. Understand? Both sides were negotiating over what actually got into the budget and what didn't. Reagan gave as good as he got. The difference this time? Radical extremists are trying to defund an already passed law for which the funds had already been appropriated. The ACA was already passed, already funded, and implemented a few days ago. The states already have the money. This radical fringe is holding the budget hostage to go after legislation they don't like. So why can't any party do this in the future?

Let's say one party passes legislation and then, in the midterms, gets tossed and the other party gets the majority. Could the new majority party then freeze the next budget in order to take down legislation that passed when the other party was in power? And could there be any statute of limitations? Is all legislation subject to budget hostage taking down the road?

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 03:25 PM
I think I heard that the government was shut down for 12 total days during Reagan's term.

And you can make anything about the "budget" if you want to frame it that way.

Anyway, read the article again. Tip basically inserted all the controversial stuff last minute so he could "hold the country hostage" over things Reagan would've otherwise never supported. World's smallest Violin is playing. Playing for the Democrats crying while reaping what they sowed.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360135/when-tip-did-it-andrew-stiles

The shutdowns of the Reagan-O’Neill era, on the other hand, were more budget-focused, and the disputes they involved were over a wider range of policies. They also took less time to resolve. The first such shutdown occurred in November 1981, less than a year into Reagan’s first term. Reagan had demanded at least $4 billion in domestic-spending cuts, and when Congress did not oblige, he vetoed a spending package, triggering a government shutdown. Technically, the shutdown lasted only a few hours, until Congress approved a three-week spending resolution to give lawmakers time to negotiate a long-term deal.

BroncoBeavis
10-03-2013, 03:51 PM
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360135/when-tip-did-it-andrew-stiles

The shutdowns of the Reagan-O’Neill era, on the other hand, were more budget-focused, and the disputes they involved were over a wider range of policies. They also took less time to resolve. The first such shutdown occurred in November 1981, less than a year into Reagan’s first term. Reagan had demanded at least $4 billion in domestic-spending cuts, and when Congress did not oblige, he vetoed a spending package, triggering a government shutdown. Technically, the shutdown lasted only a few hours, until Congress approved a three-week spending resolution to give lawmakers time to negotiate a long-term deal.

Read the whole article. The part where Democrats took multiple shutdown opportunities to joust over abortion really undermines your point.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 03:54 PM
Read the whole article. The part where Democrats took multiple shutdown opportunities to joust over abortion really undermines your point.

Oh, I did read it. Those were Dixiecrats. They're all Rethuglicans now. ;D

BroncoBeavis
10-03-2013, 03:56 PM
Oh, I did read it. Those were Dixiecrats. They're all Rethuglicans now. ;D

Did KKK Byrd (D) have some sort of deathbed conversion I never heard about? LOL

houghtam
10-03-2013, 03:57 PM
Oh, I did read it. Those were Dixiecrats. They're all Rethuglicans now. ;D

Don't bother. You're talking to the guy who used the same tack to try saying that Republicans were the reason for the Civil Rights Act while demonizing the Democrats for having several in their party who fought against it. Saaaaaame thing. The Dixiecrats.

He loves those guys, though.

houghtam
10-03-2013, 03:58 PM
Did KKK Byrd (D) have some sort of deathbed conversion I never heard about? LOL

Oh boy! One guy...

How's about we talk about Jesse Helms and company...you know, your boy Cruz's hero?

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 04:30 PM
Did KKK Byrd (D) have some sort of deathbed conversion I never heard about? LOL

Uhh You really need to read the article. It was the House Dixiecrats that stalled the budget over abortion, not the Senate. Byrd was in the Senate. He was on the other side of the issue.

pricejj
10-03-2013, 07:17 PM
Statistically he will get cancer or have a heart attack.... 100k will be gone for cancer treatment, and a few days in cardiac ICU should blow through his assets pretty quickly... After that, probably begging to get on the public dole to save his life... That's what all the hardliners at my hospital do... Hardcore until lung cancer is stealing your breathe, then all the sudden Socialsim is a pretty good option...

LOL

You have no brain, and even less of a clue. Socialism doesn't work. Never has, and never will.

You live your life trembling at the thought of death as you hasten toward it. I live my life without fear, and am well prepared for my last day.

Sucks to be you.

houghtam
10-03-2013, 08:01 PM
LOL

You have no brain, and even less of a clue. Socialism doesn't work. Never has, and never will.

You live your life trembling at the thought of death as you hasten toward it. I live my life without fear, and am well prepared for my last day.

Sucks to be you.

That is, until you think someone is coming for your guns or raising your taxes too high.

Then you cry like a little girl and post overly dramatic things like "this, you shall not take" on discussion forums, and everyone laughs at you pissing your panties.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 09:34 PM
LOL

You have no brain, and even less of a clue. Socialism doesn't work. Never has, and never will.

You live your life trembling at the thought of death as you hasten toward it. I live my life without fear, and am well prepared for my last day.

Sucks to be you.

Whereas capitalism has produced the world we live in today. ROFL!

pricejj
10-03-2013, 09:37 PM
Whereas capitalism has produced the world we live in today. ROFL!

Government exists to create an environment where free market economies can exist.

It is there to put down tyranny, reduce monopolies, and preserve freedom. Exactly the opposite of what this administration promotes.

pricejj
10-03-2013, 09:40 PM
That is, until you think someone is coming for your guns or raising your taxes too high.

Then you cry like a little girl and post overly dramatic things like "this, you shall not take" on discussion forums, and everyone laughs at you pissing your panties.

You are wrong. I am laughing at you. You think that other people are your slave, and that they will "bend over" to you.

Besides being morally bankrupt and disgusting, you are in fact the one who is crying. Have your law, pay your insurance, and I truly that hope your heart is content in the cage that you have built yourself. Tyranny is what you promote as you remain in serfdom.

I will always be free.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 09:42 PM
Government exists to create an environment where free market economies can exist.

It is there to put down tyranny, reduce monopolies, and preserve freedom. Exactly the opposite of what this administration promotes.

Really? I would say we've done enough by taking down Glass/Steagle, massively reducing the corporate tax rate, and cutting the capital gains rate in half. What did that get us? Reagan slashed the top rate from 70% to 28%. That wasn't enough? And what has capitalism given us in return? So you're saying that if we create even more of a "free" market, things will get even better?

pricejj
10-03-2013, 09:50 PM
Really? I would say we've done enough by taking down Glass/Steagle, massively reducing the corporate tax rate, and cutting the capital gains rate in half. What did that get us? Reagan slashed the top rate from 70% to 28%. That wasn't enough? And what has capitalism given us in return? So you're saying that if create even more of a "free" market, things will get even better?

The US corporate tax rate remains the highest in the world.

Capitalism has created more freedom, prosperity, and wealth than the world has ever seen. Is it perfect? No. Greed is rampant. Usurious practices threaten to collapse the entire system. That is what a government is supposed to protect against. It's not supposed to suppress the very freedom that creates prosperity.

You call a "free" market government induced spending bubbles? These bubbles have been on the rise ever since the dollar has been on the fall. The fed targets a 2% inflation rate, so that we are forced to spend our money when we otherwise wouldn't (during recession). Now, they print money and you call that a "free market"?

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 09:52 PM
The US corporate tax rate remains the highest in the world.

Capitalism has created more freedom, prosperity, and wealth than the world has ever seen. Is it perfect? No. Greed is rampant. Usurious practices threaten to collapse the entire system. That is what a government is supposed to protect against. It's not supposed to suppress the very freedom that creates prosperity.

You call a "free" market government induced spending bubbles? These bubbles have been on the rise ever since the dollar has been on the fall. The fed targets a 2% inflation rate, so that we are forced to spend our money when we otherwise wouldn't (during recession). Now, they print money and you call that a "free market"?

The top corporations in the U.S. are not only not paying whatever their tax rate might be on paper, they're getting federal subsidies to do business. You call that a free market?

pricejj
10-03-2013, 10:03 PM
The top corporations in the U.S. are not only not paying whatever their tax rate might be on paper, they're getting federal subsidies to do business. You call that a free market?

You bitch and moan about a few select corporations that the Democrat-controlled US government doesn't do crap about?

Harry Reid hasn't done a damn thing in the Senate (except table or vote down common-sense legislation) for the past 5 years.

Cut the damn corporate rate, and close the loopholes! We've been screaming that from the mountaintops for the last 5 years.

The House must have passed hundreds of bills to fix the very problem you speak of, yet Obama and Reid shoot everything down.

Rohirrim
10-03-2013, 11:17 PM
You b**** and moan about a few select corporations that the Democrat-controlled US government doesn't do crap about?

Harry Reid hasn't done a damn thing in the Senate (except table or vote down common-sense legislation) for the past 5 years.

Cut the damn corporate rate, and close the loopholes! We've been screaming that from the mountaintops for the last 5 years.

The House must have passed hundreds of bills to fix the very problem you speak of, yet Obama and Reid shoot everything down.

The biggest buyers of government are found on Wall Street. You think they haven't got what they wanted from both parties for the last thirty years? Do you think they haven't rigged the game to funnel the majority of wealth to themselves? Talk about redistribution! You think both parties don't collude to provide for their corporate sponsors? The Rethuglicans were in charge for years. Under them, this kind of tax cutting/deregulating legislation exploded. Now, you want to come blame it on the other party? And with Citizens United and now McCutcheon, expect this kind of corruption to grow exponentially. Tell me all about the blessings of capitalism. I can look around and see the wreckage these capitalists have made of my country.

Bronco Yoda
10-04-2013, 04:29 AM
Go back and look at those shutdowns. They were over budget numbers. Some of them lasted only hours. Most lasted no more than two days. One was because they just didn't get around to it. Was there a single shutdown like this, where extremists held the country hostage in order to take down a law they didn't like? Nope. And you don't think the extremists won't do the same thing about the debt ceiling? Another case of false equivalency.

Exactly. Why this false equivalency continues to be thrown around here is beyond me.

Bronco Yoda
10-04-2013, 04:36 AM
It worked out pretty good actually. Reid looked pretty silly denying healthcare to those needing it from the NIH, and the veteran thing is being pointed at Obama. The Republicans did a really good job with the visuals on that one. You must have thought that I thought that it would be a home run or something? I was just reporting on the tactic because this place seems more interested in bickering with each other than actually following politics. The circle jerk aside, I noted that my threads following the actual happenings of the day make up the top three threads, so I must be doing something right.

In any case, I'm not sure why you think the GOP is looking all that bad. I can only guess that you're getting all your news from a liberal echo chamber. My political news surfing takes a pretty broad path, and it's not looking as bad for the Republicans as you think it is. Pretty well, both sides are taking plenty of hits out there - though not on MSNBC, where Republicans are taking 100% of the blame. No one cares about MSNBC except the wonkiest of political wonks, which include me - I am an avid follower of Morning Joe, Hardball, and Maddow.

This has the potential of going on for some time. They're talking about a grand bargain, but Boehner will be seen as a loser unless he walks away with a year delay in the individual mandate. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to go off the fiscal cliff.

I'm hopeful that Obama is just holding his chips back for the real game in a couple weeks. Also hopeful that Boehner will not be willing to go over the cliff. I think something will get done on the line of a very small bargain.

But I'm not banking on it. I've already prepared for the worst. I recommend everyone else do the same before it's too late.

peacepipe
10-04-2013, 06:33 AM
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/03/fox-news-poll-finds-disapproval-gop-skyrocketing-shut-government.html

[QUOTE]

Bad News is everywhere for the Republican Party. Even the Fox News poll has found disapproval of the Republican Party jumping to 59% in their latest poll.

According to the Fox News poll, disapproval of the Republican Party has jumped from 46% in September of 2012 to 59% today. Disapproval of the GOP has climbed from 54% in January to 56% in April to nearing 60% today. Approval of the Republican Party has fallen from 45% to 35%. In contrast, Democratic Party unfavorability has stayed stable in the Fox poll at between 48% and 49% all through 2013.

Support for repealing the ACA has dropped from 39% in June to 30% today. This could mean that the linking of funding the government to defunding or delaying the ACA has completely backfired on the Republican Party. The number of Americans who think that they will be better off under Obamacare has risen by 7 points from 34% to 41%, and by a margin of 36%-19% respondents thought that Ted Cruz’s fake filibuster hurt efforts to repeal the ACA

Rigs11
10-04-2013, 09:11 AM
You can't make this shet up. party before country!

Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shutdown Concerns

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) were caught on a hot mic Wednesday discussing talking-points for the shutdown by local news station WPSD 6.

"I just did CNN and I just go over and over again 'We're willing to compromise. We're willing to negotiate.' I think... I don't think they poll tested we won't negotiate. I think it's awful for [Democrats] to say that over and over again," Paul said.
"Yeah, I do too and I, and I just came back from that two hour meeting with them and that, and that was basically the same view privately as it was publicly," McConnell agreed.

Paul added, "I think if we keep saying, 'We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this, I think."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/rand-paul-mitch-mcconnell-hot-mic_n_4036591.html?ir=Politics

pricejj
10-04-2013, 06:52 PM
The biggest buyers of government are found on Wall Street. You think they haven't got what they wanted from both parties for the last thirty years? Do you think they haven't rigged the game to funnel the majority of wealth to themselves? Talk about redistribution! You think both parties don't collude to provide for their corporate sponsors? The Rethuglicans were in charge for years. Under them, this kind of tax cutting/deregulating legislation exploded. Now, you want to come blame it on the other party? And with Citizens United and now McCutcheon, expect this kind of corruption to grow exponentially. Tell me all about the blessings of capitalism. I can look around and see the wreckage these capitalists have made of my country.

Capitalists have made a wreckage of your country? LOL Public debt has made a wreckage of your country, and continues to. Yet you want the government to spend more.

High labor costs have contributed to the wreckage of your country, yet you want higher taxes and more anti-business regulation.


Balance the budget, lower the corporate tax rate, and close the loopholes. Problem solved.

Communism/Socialism doesn't work, never has and never will.