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Taco John
09-28-2013, 04:13 PM
Seems reasonable...


Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
One year delay on the individual mandate
The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
Troops get paid regardless



http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/house-will-vote-plan-keep-government-open-stop-obamacare

SoCalBronco
09-28-2013, 04:38 PM
DOA

Taco John
09-28-2013, 04:43 PM
DOA

It looks like it, but I think Republicans can hold the line here and put pressure on Democrats. Obama shot himself in the foot by offering free passes to big business while holding the American's feet to the fire on the individual mandate.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 04:46 PM
Seems reasonable...


Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
One year delay on the individual mandate
The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
Troops get paid regardless



http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/house-will-vote-plan-keep-government-open-stop-obamacare

Sounds very reasonable. I'm personally very happy that the individual mandate delay is included. This will provide relief to millions of Americans and provide an economic boost.

Taco John
09-28-2013, 04:49 PM
Sounds very reasonable. I'm personally very happy that the individual mandate delay is included. This will provide relief to millions of Americans and provide an economic boost.

Reid's rejecting it and has decided that he will not reconvene the Senate until Monday, which effectively means Obama is about to preside over a federal shut down. It's pretty well a done deal at this point. They won't accept any compromise on this at all.

The Lone Bolt
09-28-2013, 04:53 PM
"Seems" reasonable... but it's not.

The repeal of the Medical Device Tax is just another effort at defunding the PPACA and the only purpose of the delay is to buy time for the republicans to kill the law entirely.

The democrats should -- and will -- reject this Trojan horse.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 04:53 PM
It looks like it, but I think Republicans can hold the line here and put pressure on Democrats. Obama shot himself in the foot by offering free passes to big business while holding the American's feet to the fire on the individual mandate.

Of course Democrats all of a sudden think they can take the 'we don't negotiate on anything stance', while attempting to get rid of sequestration.

Lulz good luck with that!

peacepipe
09-28-2013, 04:55 PM
Reid's rejecting it and has decided that he will not reconvene the Senate until Monday, which effectively means Obama is about to preside over a federal shut down. It's pretty well a done deal at this point. They won't accept any compromise on this at all.a shut down rethugs forced. they did it to Clinton now they're doing it to Obama.
compromise? you don't negotiate deals under extortion just like you wouldn't negotiate with terrorists. Obama and dems are making the right choice.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 04:57 PM
Reid's rejecting it and has decided that he will not reconvene the Senate until Monday, which effectively means Obama is about to preside over a federal shut down. It's pretty well a done deal at this point. They won't accept any compromise on this at all.

If that's what they want, then that's what they'll get. Obama delayed the employer mandate illegally. There should be nothing wrong with delaying the individual mandate lawfully (which people don't want anyway). The American public will side with the R's on this one.

peacepipe
09-28-2013, 05:00 PM
If that's what they want, then that's what they'll get. Obama delayed the employer mandate illegally. There should be nothing wrong with delaying the individual mandate lawfully (which people don't want anyway). The American public will side with the R's on this one.that's complete fantasy,rethugs will get blamed,it's why Boehner was trying to avert this situation with the debt ceiling as opposed to shutting down the government. he knows the Rs get blamed.

peacepipe
09-28-2013, 05:03 PM
hell look at how rethugs lashed out at cruz for forcing their hand on this.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 05:04 PM
that's complete fantasy,rethugs will get blamed,it's why Boehner was trying to avert this situation with the debt ceiling as opposed to shutting down the government. he knows the Rs get blamed.

I disagree. Republicans will keep the House in 2014, and continue to control the purse strings. Therefore, the people will have sided with Republicans.

We are not worried in the least. Your threats are meaningless.

peacepipe
09-28-2013, 05:14 PM
I disagree. Republicans will keep the House in 2014, and continue to control the purse strings. Therefore, the people will have sided with Republicans.

We are not worried in the least. Your threats are meaningless.

no threats here,just pointing out the reality of what rethugs will be putting themselves in. there will be no compromise,government will reopen at some point with obamacare with no delay and rethugs will get blamed as a whole by the country and look stupid in the end to their lunatic fringe of a base.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 05:37 PM
People will finally be able to see Harry Reid front and center. No longer able to hide under the curtain that the state-run media provides.

The people won't like what they see. Not at all. Reid is the ghoul who is at the epicenter the Socialist movement.

If you don't think American's won't want to vomit every time they see that fool on TV, trying to explain why the government is shut down, you're sadly mistaken.

W*GS
09-28-2013, 06:01 PM
People will finally be able to see Harry Reid front and center. No longer able to hide under the curtain that the state-run media provides.

The people won't like what they see. Not at all. Reid is the ghoul who is at the epicenter the Socialist movement.

If you don't think American's won't want to vomit every time they see that fool on TV, trying to explain why the government is shut down, you're sadly mistaken.

Posting while drunk isn't wise.

BTW, whenever I see Boehner's over-tanned face, I'm reminded of the last dump I took. Similar color.

Taco John
09-28-2013, 07:00 PM
I think when the people examine this, they'll see that it wasn't worth shutting down the government over a year delay and the repeal of a very unpopular tax. I'm not sure what Obama and Reid are thinking.

For my part, I'm comfortable with this. I feel like the Republicans offered a reasonable compromise to keep the government open and funded. If Obama and Reid don't want to give an inch, then this is on them.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 07:05 PM
BTW, whenever I see Boehner's over-tanned face, I'm reminded of the last dump I took. Similar color.

Making fun of people with dark skin. Great idea bozo.

Taco John
09-28-2013, 07:08 PM
I'm actually stunned. I thought this was a great compromise. I can't believe Reid and Obama aren't willing to budge an inch and instead choose to preside over a shut down over such a small concession. I guess I have to credit them for having principles too.

I think they're making a serious mistake though. I'm pretty sure our side will hold the line in the House and get the same extension for the people that Obama granted to big business. That's an easy hill for our side to find footing and fix bayonets on.

The Lone Bolt
09-28-2013, 07:12 PM
I'm actually stunned. I thought this was a great compromise. I can't believe Reid and Obama aren't willing to budge an inch and instead preside over a shut down over such a small concession. I guess I have to credit them for having principles too.

I think they're making a serious mistake though. I'm pretty sure our side will hold the line in the House and get the same extension for the people that Obama granted to big business. That's an easy hill for our side to find footing and fix bayonets on.

Like I said, this "compromise" is BS -- especially the delay.

Taco John
09-28-2013, 07:19 PM
Like I said, this "compromise" is BS -- especially the delay.

Obama is the one who is granting delays for big business. Now he's saying he's willing to shut down the government over giving the same delay to the people. If that's the hill he wants to battle on, so be it.

The Lone Bolt
09-28-2013, 07:26 PM
Obama is the one who is granting delays for big business. Now he's saying he's willing to shut down the government over giving the same delay to the people. If that's the hill he wants to battle on, so be it.

The only purpose of the delay is for the repubs to buy time to repeal the PPACA. It has nothing to do with fairness. Obama should stand his ground on this.

Taco John
09-28-2013, 08:04 PM
The only purpose of the delay is for the repubs to buy time to repeal the PPACA. It has nothing to do with fairness. Obama should stand his ground on this.

I sincerely hope he does. I think this is an easy fight for the Republicans to stand their ground on at this point. All they have to do is repeat the line "we tried to get for the American people the same extension he gave to big business."

This shut down could have easily been avoided.

pricejj
09-28-2013, 08:06 PM
The only purpose of the delay is for the repubs to buy time to repeal the PPACA. It has nothing to do with fairness. Obama should stand his ground on this.

Repeal is only possible with vote, so what you're saying is utter hogwash.

By all means, Obama and the Democrats should give the people the same breaks he gave to big business.

The Lone Bolt
09-28-2013, 08:21 PM
Repeal is only possible with vote, so what you're saying is utter hogwash.

By all means, Obama and the Democrats should give the people the same breaks he gave to big business.

I would expect this to be obvious. What the repubs are hoping for is to delay the PPACA so they can have another year to bash it in the press and turn the public against it. Then, they hope, the dems can be pressured into repealing it.

If they don't get that done a year from now they'll demand another year delay which will push it past the 2014 elections. If they can get control of Congress by then they hope it will make it even harder to implement the law. Ands if they don't get another delay they plan to stomp their little feet again and threaten to shut down the government.

The delay is yet another effort at repeal. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

houghtam
09-28-2013, 08:26 PM
I'm actually stunned. I thought this was a great compromise. I can't believe Reid and Obama aren't willing to budge an inch and instead choose to preside over a shut down over such a small concession. I guess I have to credit them for having principles too.

I think they're making a serious mistake though. I'm pretty sure our side will hold the line in the House and get the same extension for the people that Obama granted to big business. That's an easy hill for our side to find footing and fix bayonets on.

I'm actually stunned. I thought the ACA was a great compromise, considering most of it was on the Republican agenda ~20 years ago. I can't believe Boehner isn't willing to budge an inch and instead choose to spark a shut down over such a huge concession. I guess I have to credit them for changing the principles their party used to stand for too.

I think they're making a serious mistake though. I'm pretty sure the Democrats will not only be able to stop them at every turn, but that it will hurt the Republican party much as it did in 95-96. That's an easy win for the Democrats, considering they hold all the cards.

W*GS
09-28-2013, 08:40 PM
Making fun of people with dark skin. Great idea bozo.

Another unintentional laugher. Boehner made himself that color.

He's still quite turdlike, despite your pathetic attempt at calling me a racist.

houghtam
09-28-2013, 08:42 PM
Another unintentional laugher. Boehner made himself that color.

He's still quite turdlike, despite your pathetic attempt at calling me a racist.

Yeah, I LOL'ed too.

I thought only liberals were supposed to be so sensitive as to see racism everywhere.

peacepipe
09-28-2013, 08:48 PM
I think when the people examine this, they'll see that it wasn't worth shutting down the government over a year delay and the repeal of a very unpopular tax. I'm not sure what Obama and Reid are thinking.

For my part, I'm comfortable with this. I feel like the Republicans offered a reasonable compromise to keep the government open and funded. If Obama and Reid don't want to give an inch, then this is on them.what they'll see is a rethuglican party willing to throw the country under a bus over their own ideology.
what Obama and Ried are thinking is that you don't allow extortion to be used as a negotiating tactic.

DenverBrit
09-28-2013, 11:04 PM
I'm actually stunned. I thought this was a great compromise. I can't believe Reid and Obama aren't willing to budge an inch and instead choose to preside over a shut down over such a small concession. I guess I have to credit them for having principles too.

I think they're making a serious mistake though. I'm pretty sure our side will hold the line in the House and get the same extension for the people that Obama granted to big business. That's an easy hill for our side to find footing and fix bayonets on.

It's the far right and the fools who pander to them that are throwing a childish tantrum. Like it or not, the ACA was passed by both houses and upheld by the Supreme Court. What we are witnessing is nothing more than a far right, ideological power play that reinforces the corrupt, dysfunctional cluster **** in DC.

Why bother to have elections and pass bills?

peacepipe
09-28-2013, 11:16 PM
It's the far right and the fools who pander to them that are throwing a childish tantrum. Like it or not, the ACA was passed by both houses and upheld by the Supreme Court. What we are witnessing is nothing more than a far right, ideological power play that reinforces the corrupt, dysfunctional cluster **** in DC.

Why bother to have elections and pass bills?

not to mention that the "referendum" already happened in 2012.

Taco John
09-29-2013, 01:13 AM
That's fine with me. You guys point your fingers. We'll point ours.

BroncoBeavis
09-29-2013, 06:05 AM
It's the far right and the fools who pander to them that are throwing a childish tantrum. Like it or not, the ACA was passed by both houses and upheld by the Supreme Court. What we are witnessing is nothing more than a far right, ideological power play that reinforces the corrupt, dysfunctional cluster **** in DC.

Why bother to have elections and pass bills?

So what you're saying is that your man Obama is doing Americans a great service by unilaterally (and illegally) delaying the parts of the law his donors don't like. But Republicans offering delay for the rest of us as part of a legal legislative compromise is what's wrong with American politics.

LOL

peacepipe
09-29-2013, 07:42 AM
So what you're saying is that your man Obama is doing Americans a great service by unilaterally (and illegally) delaying the parts of the law his donors don't like. But Republicans offering delay for the rest of us as part of a legal legislative compromise is what's wrong with American politics.

LOLwhats being said is get the **** over it, ACA is a done deal.

BroncoBeavis
09-29-2013, 08:36 AM
whats being said is get the **** over it, ACA is a done deal.

Unless the King no likely. Then its a matter of executive discretion.

This attitude could come back to haunt the left much sooner than they imagine.

DenverBrit
09-29-2013, 09:13 AM
So what you're saying is that your man Obama is doing Americans a great service by unilaterally (and illegally) delaying the parts of the law his donors don't like. But Republicans offering delay for the rest of us as part of a legal legislative compromise is what's wrong with American politics.

LOL

Different screen name, same comprehension.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H8KDKpNcbYo/Subtxan6qwI/AAAAAAAAApw/KGs9OmLVrsE/s400/blog+box+of+rocks.jpg

Pick Six
09-29-2013, 09:22 AM
"Seems" reasonable... but it's not.

The repeal of the Medical Device Tax is just another effort at defunding the PPACA and the only purpose of the delay is to buy time for the republicans to kill the law entirely.

The democrats should -- and will -- reject this Trojan horse.

Why should the elderly, disabled, and the sick pay higher taxes?

Rohirrim
09-29-2013, 09:36 AM
What the insiders are saying is that the smell of booze coming from the Boehner contingent is strong. When they come out of committee meetings, it smells like the local dive. Destroy America and party on! I guess that's their new slogan. A different kind of Taliban. ;D

peacepipe
09-29-2013, 09:48 AM
Why should the elderly, disabled, and the sick pay higher taxes?
didn't realise that the owners/CEOs of medical device companies were the elderly,disabled & the sick. thanks for clearing that up for me.

pricejj
09-29-2013, 09:59 AM
I would expect this to be obvious. What the repubs are hoping for is to delay the PPACA so they can have another year to bash it in the press and turn the public against it. Then, they hope, the dems can be pressured into repealing it.

If they don't get that done a year from now they'll demand another year delay which will push it past the 2014 elections. If they can get control of Congress by then they hope it will make it even harder to implement the law. Ands if they don't get another delay they plan to stomp their little feet again and threaten to shut down the government.

The delay is yet another effort at repeal. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

Delaying the individual mandate has absolutely NO EFFECT on the rest of the bill. You still get your community rating, expansion of Medicaid, free birth control, etc. ad nauseam.

The latest bill passed by the House is a compromise which simply wouldn't force people to buy insurance. Obama and Reid are not being honest when they say otherwise.

pricejj
09-29-2013, 10:08 AM
Another unintentional laugher. Boehner made himself that color.


And you likened his skin color to your excrement. Your "contributions" to this forum are devoid of inspiration and intellect.

Please do us all a favor, try to post something constructive for once.

Rohirrim
09-29-2013, 10:25 AM
Our form of government was not designed to be run from the House. There have been many times in history where some political cabal in the House thought they could pull the levers of power. It's always ended in disaster. Last one to try it was Gingrich. Obama has no choice but to slam the door shut on this bull****. Not just for himself, but for the executive office.

W*GS
09-29-2013, 10:26 AM
And you likened his skin color to your excrement.

Only if I eat a LOT of carrots, to get that orangey tinge, like Boehner's face.

One would think he could afford a decent fake bake.

houghtam
09-29-2013, 11:43 AM
Our form of government was not designed to be run from the House. There have been many times in history where some political cabal in the House thought they could pull the levers of power. It's always ended in disaster. Last one to try it was Gingrich. Obama has no choice but to slam the door shut on this bull****. Not just for himself, but for the executive office.

That's actually a really good point. The conservatives on this board have time and time again pointed out how "if Obama does X" he'll open the door for future presidents to do the same. For example, selective enforcement.

This works both ways. If he doesn't stand up to the House, what sort of precedent do you think this will set? Do you think the GOP will control the House forever? Do you enjoy the prospect of having the House determine policy if/when another GOP candidate ever gets into the White House? Moreover, do you realistically think Obama is going to let that happen for that reason alone, not to mention the fact that he's said time and time again he's not going to alter his signature piece of (legally passed, Supreme Court vetted, election-survived) legislation.

This, all over and above the fact that they're demanding a compromise from something that was already a compromise to begin with.

SoCalBronco
09-29-2013, 12:39 PM
This is a very dangerous precedent and there will be retribution if and when the shoe is on the other foot. Bad move by our House members.

Taco John
09-29-2013, 12:43 PM
Our form of government was not designed to be run from the House.

Actually, it was. The House has the purse strings. That was an intentional design.

Taco John
09-29-2013, 12:44 PM
That's actually a really good point. The conservatives on this board have time and time again pointed out how "if Obama does X" he'll open the door for future presidents to do the same. For example, selective enforcement.

This works both ways. If he doesn't stand up to the House, what sort of precedent do you think this will set? Do you think the GOP will control the House forever? Do you enjoy the prospect of having the House determine policy if/when another GOP candidate ever gets into the White House? Moreover, do you realistically think Obama is going to let that happen for that reason alone, not to mention the fact that he's said time and time again he's not going to alter his signature piece of (legally passed, Supreme Court vetted, election-survived) legislation.

This, all over and above the fact that they're demanding a compromise from something that was already a compromise to begin with.

I would love to see the Democrats try to do something to limit spending in the House. That would be wonderful.

houghtam
09-29-2013, 01:07 PM
I would love to see the Democrats try to do something to limit spending in the House. That would be wonderful.

Cute, but completely missing the point.

SoCal at least is acknowledging the pandora's box being opened by practicing this form of "governing".

But, as I said...the Democrats hold all the cards here, so it's kind of a moot point.

Mr.Meanie
09-29-2013, 01:37 PM
Since when is it considered proper governance to threaten to destroy economy in order to get your way in a negotiation? Negotiation is about finding common ground and making concessions, and the leverage used should be in the form of supporting various causes in exchange for support in others. Holding a gun to the country's head in exchange for concessions is destructive to the entire political process, and just a mind-blowingly awful way to approach negotiation.

The only thing I can imagine is that this whole thing is either a spotlight grabbing and fundraising charade, or they truly don't care if they burn the entire process down in exchange for 100% of what they want.

They are either going to go right up to the brink and then back down (looking like this whole thing was a sham from the start anyway), or they are truly going to disrupt the government and there will be a significant backlash when the stock market plunges in the aftermath. Either way, this is terrible political strategy for the GOP. Great if you're trying to sell books and raise money for 2014 from your base, I guess, but it's a huge gamble with very little upside. There's no way the President would sign a bill gutting his top domestic achievement right before it starts, and they don't have anywhere close to the number of votes in the Senate.

Requiem
09-29-2013, 03:31 PM
This is a very dangerous precedent and there will be retribution if and when the shoe is on the other foot. Bad move by our House members.

Hehe. :)

pricejj
09-29-2013, 06:31 PM
Cute, but completely missing the point.

SoCal at least is acknowledging the pandora's box being opened by practicing this form of "governing".

But, as I said...the Democrats hold all the cards here, so it's kind of a moot point.

Make my day.

Go ahead, shut down the government. Great way to reduce the deficit, and great way to reduce the liability of future generations. Shut it down for the whole year if you want (or longer). Time to start paying down some of that debt. The American people DO NOT NEED the US government.

The House holds the purse strings, and all their asking for is a delay in forcing all Americans to purchase insurance (the entire law is a train wreck right now anyway). So no, the Democrats do not hold all the cards. The US government was specifically designed to provide checks and balances, while limiting the power of the federal government. That's exactly what is happening here.

pricejj
09-29-2013, 06:35 PM
Hehe. :)

Not at all Req. Please shut it down whenever you feel like. Shut it down for 2 years and try to force Progressive spending. The Progressives would then get voted out by the people in order to form a military for self defense (which is one of the only functions we need the federal government for).


Close the doors, and throw away the key if you want. Would be GREAT for this country to run a balanced budget.

houghtam
09-29-2013, 06:46 PM
Make my day.

Go ahead, shut down the government. Great way to reduce the deficit, and great way to reduce the liability of future generations. Shut it down for the whole year if you want (or longer). Time to start paying down some of that debt. The American people DO NOT NEED the US government.

The House holds the purse strings, and all their asking for is a delay in forcing all Americans to purchase insurance (the entire law is a train wreck right now anyway). So no, the Democrats do not hold all the cards. The US government was specifically designed to provide checks and balances, while limiting the power of the federal government. That's exactly what is happening here.

Those are your sentiments.

You are in the vast, vast minority on this, and every poll says so.

Good luck.

SoCalBronco
09-29-2013, 07:49 PM
Ok..so here is what's going to happen...

1. The govt will shutdown.
2. The market will take a hit.
3. Public approval for both sides will take a hit....and the GOP will take the bigger hit.
4. After about a week of market instability and constituents calling in about lack of services and the military griping to the GOP about not getting paid, a deal will be struck that basically doesn't change the dynamic at all except that the debt limit will not be raised (currently we have till December) so as to give the House Republicans something to go back to their districts with.
5. Boehner will lose the speakership to Cantor in some postmortem bloodletting which will actually make the situation much worse going forward to the December talks.

BroncoBeavis
09-30-2013, 06:44 AM
Ok..so here is what's going to happen...

1. The govt will shutdown.
2. The market will take a hit.
3. Public approval for both sides will take a hit....and the GOP will take the bigger hit.
4. After about a week of market instability and constituents calling in about lack of services and the military griping to the GOP about not getting paid, a deal will be struck that basically doesn't change the dynamic at all except that the debt limit will not be raised (currently we have till December) so as to give the House Republicans something to go back to their districts with.
5. Boehner will lose the speakership to Cantor in some postmortem bloodletting which will actually make the situation much worse going forward to the December talks.

House already passed a clean cr on military pay. If they don't get paid it'll be because Democrats enjoy holding that particular hostage.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 06:58 AM
House already passed a clean cr on military pay. If they don't get paid it'll be because Democrats enjoy holding that particular hostage.

trying to have it both ways. considering that rethugs were not going to include military pay as part of it I should consider what rethugs are doing a not really bad treasonist extortion. still extortion,but because they make sure military gets paid the extortion isn't so bad. rethugs will get blamed for a shut down and rightfully so.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 07:25 AM
even other rethugs are acknowledging it's their own party forcing a shut down.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/republican-senator-denounces-house-gop-s-obamacare-strategy

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 08:49 AM
A government that allows for a minority group of radicals to bring it to its knees on a whim is a failed government.

Meck77
09-30-2013, 09:25 AM
Yeah let's get control of our spending. Radical!!!!!!!!!!!

It is broken Ro. Exactly the reason it should be shut down and rebuilt from the ground up.

I see the comment of "you are out of touch" being thrown out a lot.

The representative you guys think are representing you are mega multi millionaires both democrat and republicans getting big fat pay checks and pensions!

Their concern is their own personal interests and deals while they fool the simple minded into thinking there is some "big conflict" between the parties.

I've seen it first hand at the Colorado Capital. On TV they jaw with one another, put on big public debates that are knock down drag out battles. At noon you'll see these "sworn" enemies at the capital grill on Colfax yucking it up together talking about what a "display" they put on. I know. I've heard it first hand and followed these chumps from the capital after hearings to the bar to have a listen. It's disgusting. This is just Colorado. DC is 10X worse!

Oh and make no mistake. The representatives at the State level have mega millions also. Hickenlooper is so out of touch it's unbelievable. He cashed in his restaurant empire for MASSIVE I mean massive amounts of TOD or transit oriented development land along light rail stops around Denver. He gobbled up a ton of it while RTD was on their eminent domain rampage years ago.

Hick and other Dems sold the Denver voters tax increase after tax increase for FasTracks in the name of "public housing" and "transit needs". The reality is Light Rail is ALL about DEVELOPMENT. Just one small example.

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 09:44 AM
Yeah let's get control of our spending. Radical!!!!!!!!!!! It is broken Ro. Exactly the reason it should be shut down and rebuilt from the ground up.

I see the comment of "you are out of touch" being thrown out a lot.

The representative you guys think are representing you are mega multi millionaires both democrat and republicans getting big fat pay checks and pensions!

Their concern is their own personal interests and deals while they fool the simple minded into thinking there is some "big conflict" between the parties.

I've seen it first hand at the Colorado Capital. On TV they jaw with one another, put on big public debates that are knock down drag out battles. At noon you'll see them at these "sworn" enemies at the capital grill on Colfax yucking it up together talking about what a "display" they put on. I know. I've heard it first hand and followed these chumps from the capital after hearings to the bar to have a listen. It's disgusting. This is just Colorado. DC is 10X worse!get over yourself quite abit spending has been cut,quite frankly, too much in the wrong areas.

revenue needs to go up, ie taxes need to go up. only an idiot thinks we can fix all this cuts alone.

Meck77
09-30-2013, 09:47 AM
get over yourself quite abit spending has been cut,quite frankly, too much in the wrong areas.

revenue needs to go up, ie taxes need to go up. only an idiot thinks we can fix all this cuts alone.

Sure. Why don't you lead by example. Get over yourself suggesting the rest of us should pay more taxes.

You can send in "extra" money right now. If you feel so strongly the government can do more good with your money then you can. Why not cut a check right now?

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 09:55 AM
Sure. Why don't you lead by example. Get over yourself suggesting the rest of us should pay more taxes.

You can send in "extra" money right now. If you feel so strongly the government can do more good with your money then you can. Why not cut a check right now?

I am leading by example by voting in every election for politicians that will have everyone pay their fair share in taxes. from what I've been noticing more and more people are seeing things my way and are voting my way.

DenverBrit
09-30-2013, 10:07 AM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7829384960/h21756E93/

Rigs11
09-30-2013, 10:34 AM
Spending is at the lowest its been in years Meck.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/rickungar/files/2012/11/MW-AR658_spendi_20120521163312_ME11.jpg

Rigs11
09-30-2013, 10:35 AM
Meck do you support defense cuts or does it have to come at the expense of social programs?

peacepipe
09-30-2013, 10:59 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/government-shutdown-poll_n_4016014.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&utm_hp_ref=politics

Most Americans would blame congressional Republicans rather than President Barack Obama for a shutdown, and many Americans view the GOP as acting like "spoiled children," according to a CNN/ORC International poll released Monday.

Forty-six percent of respondents would blame congressional Republicans, 36 percent would blame Obama and 13 percent would blame both. Sixty-nine percent said that the GOP is acting like "spoiled children" in the budget fight, while 58 percent think that of congressional Democrats and 49 percent think that of President Barack Obama. Six in 10 respondents reject the GOP's approach and think it is more important to avoid a shutdown than to make major changes to the Affordable Care Act
The poll is an indication that the Republicans' hard-line approach does not resonate with many Americans, and could have consequences in future elections.

elsid13
09-30-2013, 11:05 AM
Make my day.

Go ahead, shut down the government. Great way to reduce the deficit, and great way to reduce the liability of future generations. Shut it down for the whole year if you want (or longer). Time to start paying down some of that debt. The American people DO NOT NEED the US government.

The House holds the purse strings, and all their asking for is a delay in forcing all Americans to purchase insurance (the entire law is a train wreck right now anyway). So no, the Democrats do not hold all the cards. The US government was specifically designed to provide checks and balances, while limiting the power of the federal government. That's exactly what is happening here.

You do realize you are not stop spending, you are just delaying it and hurting the economy. You don't save money when there is shutdown, in fact it more costly because you have to close and then restart a number of operations. It is very inefficient and waste of time.

Meck77
09-30-2013, 11:08 AM
Spending is at the lowest its been in years Meck.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/rickungar/files/2012/11/MW-AR658_spendi_20120521163312_ME11.jpg

Slowest spending? Every google search I see reports our national debt is up 6 trillion with the recent admin or more than any other in history.

Look for the R's and D's with me. I could give a **** about either group. The debt and spending is one in the same in my eyes.

To answer your question YES. Support massive cuts in military spending abroad and believe we need to refocus resources to our own borders. I've mentioned my friend numerous times who's worked in the pentagon, the White House, been on the battle fields around the globe. He is also of the opinion we need to focus on America and not police the world also.

There is war on the streets of Chicago, Detroit, and in Mexico!

Rigs11
09-30-2013, 11:43 AM
Slowest spending? Every google search I see reports our national debt is up 6 trillion with the recent admin or more than any other in history.

Look for the R's and D's with me. I could give a **** about either group. The debt and spending is one in the same in my eyes.

To answer your question YES. Support massive cuts in military spending abroad and believe we need to refocus resources to our own borders. I've mentioned my friend numerous times who's worked in the pentagon, the White House, been on the battle fields around the globe. He is also of the opinion we need to focus on America and not police the world also.

There is war on the streets of Chicago, Detroit, and in Mexico!

Care to post the links? The majority of that debt comes from the Iraq war, bush tax cuts and medicare part d

houghtam
09-30-2013, 12:14 PM
Uhh

This is exactly what I was referring to, Meck. You talk about not caring whether it's Rs or Ds, yet in every post, in every specific example you give, it's always the Ds.

You're not anti-partisan in the least, you're just a Republican who claims he wants to cut military spending. Congrats on that, but your posting history points to where you truly stand.

B-Large
09-30-2013, 12:54 PM
Seems reasonable...


Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
One year delay on the individual mandate
The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
Troops get paid regardless



http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/house-will-vote-plan-keep-government-open-stop-obamacare

Obama doesn't need to compromise, thats the point of this whole thing. The PPACA has overcome legislative and judicial hurddles in our Government, the House needs to pay the Bills it has passed and be done with this crap.

If it is terrible as predicted, the ACA falls under it own weight. Republicans pick up steam off the failure into next year on the banner or Repeal, then they can really take care of this law, legislatively.

But you know what, they continue to relitigate and rerun losing campagns from the past right now. They ran a year long presidential election on being Anti-ACA (Ironically with the guy who signed the ACA's little brother), and they lost, and not close either.

I am tired of the GOP, let this things go, if is fails it fails.. I don;t want to go back to square one, cause it sucked much worse.

B-Large
09-30-2013, 01:04 PM
Make my day.

Go ahead, shut down the government. Great way to reduce the deficit, and great way to reduce the liability of future generations. Shut it down for the whole year if you want (or longer). Time to start paying down some of that debt. The American people DO NOT NEED the US government.

The House holds the purse strings, and all their asking for is a delay in forcing all Americans to purchase insurance (the entire law is a train wreck right now anyway). So no, the Democrats do not hold all the cards. The US government was specifically designed to provide checks and balances, while limiting the power of the federal government. That's exactly what is happening here.

You do realize that a shotdown doesn't change the LTD, right?
You do relize that most of the current deficits come from mandatory spending, right?
You do realize that the ACA has been "checked", it was checked on consitutional powers form the SCOTUS
The US needs government to function, your assertion is ignorant- I guess if we don't need government, we don't need that Constitution.. lawlessness, no national defense..... makes sense.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 01:30 PM
Obama doesn't need to compromise, thats the point of this whole thing. The PPACA has overcome legislative and judicial hurddles in our Government, the House needs to pay the Bills it has passed and be done with this crap.

If it is terrible as predicted, the ACA falls under it own weight. Republicans pick up steam off the failure into next year on the banner or Repeal, then they can really take care of this law, legislatively.

But you know what, they continue to relitigate and rerun losing campagns from the past right now. They ran a year long presidential election on being Anti-ACA (Ironically with the guy who signed the ACA's little brother), and they lost, and not close either.

I am tired of the GOP, let this things go, if is fails it fails.. I don;t want to go back to square one, cause it sucked much worse.

That is also a good point.

If I were as confident as Republicans seem to be that the ACA is a huge burden on people and will fail anyhow, I wouldn't be taking a position that causes the majority of Americans to think the members of my party are acting like babies. Instead, I would say (like Boehner did after the SC decision), "Obamacare is the law of the land, the matter is at rest. I believe the law will fail, but the American people have decided, it has been challenged in the Supreme Court, and it has been upheld at every turn by the system of checks and balances our Founding Fathers put in place. It is time to get to the business of governing."

If the law fails as bad as they're saying it will, the 2014 and 2016 elections will write themselves, and the Republicans, Tea Party Civil War or not, will probably win all three branches of government over the course of those two cycles, which will also likely lead to at least two SCOTUS appointees.

However, you have to wonder the real motives. Something doesn't smell right in their strategy, and as many pundits have pointed out, it is likely because they're afraid that the ACA will be a success, which will almost certainly cause serious electoral repercussions against the Rs in 2014 and 2016 if that's the case.

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 02:05 PM
Slowest spending? Every google search I see reports our national debt is up 6 trillion with the recent admin or more than any other in history.

Look for the R's and D's with me. I could give a **** about either group. The debt and spending is one in the same in my eyes.

To answer your question YES. Support massive cuts in military spending abroad and believe we need to refocus resources to our own borders. I've mentioned my friend numerous times who's worked in the pentagon, the White House, been on the battle fields around the globe. He is also of the opinion we need to focus on America and not police the world also.

There is war on the streets of Chicago, Detroit, and in Mexico!

Meanwhile, the top 1% raked in 95% of the profits made in the "recovery" for the last five years. I guarantee you, the overwhelming majority of that money was not recirculated into the American economy. It was cached offshore. This is a form of parasitism. How long do you think the country can continue to feed the insatiable greed of these parasites before it collapses?

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 02:10 PM
Obama doesn't need to compromise, thats the point of this whole thing. The PPACA has overcome legislative and judicial hurddles in our Government, the House needs to pay the Bills it has passed and be done with this crap.

If it is terrible as predicted, the ACA falls under it own weight. Republicans pick up steam off the failure into next year on the banner or Repeal, then they can really take care of this law, legislatively.

But you know what, they continue to relitigate and rerun losing campagns from the past right now. They ran a year long presidential election on being Anti-ACA (Ironically with the guy who signed the ACA's little brother), and they lost, and not close either.

I am tired of the GOP, let this things go, if is fails it fails.. I don;t want to go back to square one, cause it sucked much worse.

The Republicans keep referring to the ACA as a bill. It's not. It's a law. The time to take it down was before it was passed and signed by the president. You're right. They opened the barn door and let out the horses. Now they want to shut down the whole farming operation until somebody brings all the horses back. And they want to blame the whole fiasco on somebody else so their rabid, ignorant, troglodyte base doesn't turn its appetite for destruction on them.

B-Large
09-30-2013, 02:23 PM
That is also a good point.

If I were as confident as Republicans seem to be that the ACA is a huge burden on people and will fail anyhow, I wouldn't be taking a position that causes the majority of Americans to think the members of my party are acting like babies. Instead, I would say (like Boehner did after the SC decision), "Obamacare is the law of the land, the matter is at rest. I believe the law will fail, but the American people have decided, it has been challenged in the Supreme Court, and it has been upheld at every turn by the system of checks and balances our Founding Fathers put in place. It is time to get to the business of governing."

If the law fails as bad as they're saying it will, the 2014 and 2016 elections will write themselves, and the Republicans, Tea Party Civil War or not, will probably win all three branches of government over the course of those two cycles, which will also likely lead to at least two SCOTUS appointees.

However, you have to wonder the real motives. Something doesn't smell right in their strategy, and as many pundits have pointed out, it is likely because they're afraid that the ACA will be a success, which will almost certainly cause serious electoral repercussions against the Rs in 2014 and 2016 if that's the case.

that was well said. I still don't get to outrage, Americans have to buy insurance, and those who can't will get help to do so... why is that concept so dangerous??? really??? I think you can debate and change the details, like the device tax, but to kill an entire law that is going to really help millions of fellow Americans and is ready to go Midnight tonight, now, is foolish.

But you're right, if the ACA is doomday, Democrats will get killed 2014 and 2016... but Voters didn't see it that way in 2012, not by a close margin, and Romney ran on Repeal.. to me, Americans want a look under the hood... good for them.

B-Large
09-30-2013, 02:28 PM
The Republicans keep referring to the ACA as a bill. It's not. It's a law. The time to take it down was before it was passed and signed by the president. You're right. They opened the barn door and let out the horses. Now they want to shut down the whole farming operation until somebody brings all the horses back. And they want to blame the whole fiasco on somebody else so their rabid, ignorant, troglodyte base doesn't turn its appetite for destruction on them.

nice analogy, but i'd change Horses with Cats.... lol...

I am just tired of the GOP with this ****, I get it you don't like to LAW, so win some elections and convince the American Elelctorate you can do better... but between "we dislike immigrants, seld deport", their tagline "Maker and Takers" and wasting a year voting 42 times to Repeal the ACA LAW, I don't see them picking up alot of traction among Americans, espeocially those independents. The GOP has become about how bad stuff is, doomsday scenarios, and and longing for times well passed in our Nation.. I don't live like that, I live optimistic, that's why I don't vote GOP anymore.

Rohirrim
09-30-2013, 02:57 PM
that was well said. I still don't get to outrage, Americans have to buy insurance, and those who can't will get help to do so... why is that concept so dangerous??? really??? I think you can debate and change the details, like the device tax, but to kill an entire law that is going to really help millions of fellow Americans and is ready to go Midnight tonight, now, is foolish.

But you're right, if the ACA is doomday, Democrats will get killed 2014 and 2016... but Voters didn't see it that way in 2012, not by a close margin, and Romney ran on Repeal.. to me, Americans want a look under the hood... good for them.

The only way Republicans hold onto the House is because they gerrymandered the country into little fiefdoms they control. Without that, they would have already been tossed.

Arkie
09-30-2013, 04:16 PM
Spending is at the lowest its been in years Meck.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/rickungar/files/2012/11/MW-AR658_spendi_20120521163312_ME11.jpg

That graph does not show that spending is at the lowest. Actually, it shows that it's growing every year and is currently at its highest. It shows that spending under Obama is 1.4 times greater than the massive amounts racked up under the other presidents. There's a difference between slowest and lowest. This graph is showing spending at it's slowest growth rate, but it's still the highest it's ever been, not the lowest. If a car goes from 0-60 in 4 seconds, then eases off the acceleration as it goes up to 65. The car is still going the fastest it's ever been. It's not at it's lowest speed. It's never been faster as the speed continues to rise. Spending cuts are like brakes. We haven't applied the brakes at all. We've just eased up on the acceleration. We are currently hitting record speeds.

houghtam
09-30-2013, 04:22 PM
That graph does not show that spending is at the lowest. Actually, it shows that it's growing every year and is currently at its highest. It shows that spending under Obama is 1.4 times greater than the massive amounts racked up under the other presidents. There's a difference between slowest and lowest. This graph is showing spending at it's slowest growth rate, but it's still the highest it's ever been, not the lowest. If a car goes from 0-60 in 4 seconds, then eases off the acceleration as it goes up to 65. The car is still going the fastest it's ever been. It's not at it's lowest speed. It's never been faster as the speed continues to rise. Spending cuts are like brakes. We haven't applied the brakes at all. We've just eased up on the acceleration. We are currently hitting record speeds.

Okay?

It also shows that when it comes to growing spending, just like the ACA debate, the Republicans in practice have not provided an adequate alternative to the Democrats' policies, and in many cases, have made it worse.

Soooo...

What's your point, exactly?

Arkie
09-30-2013, 04:30 PM
Okay?

It also shows that when it comes to growing spending, just like the ACA debate, the Republicans in practice have not provided an adequate alternative to the Democrats' policies, and in many cases, have made it worse.

Soooo...

What's your point, exactly?

To explain to Rigs that spending is still at it's highest because he thinks it's at the lowest it's been in years.

BroncoBeavis
09-30-2013, 07:31 PM
Okay?

It also shows that when it comes to growing spending, just like the ACA debate, the Republicans in practice have not provided an adequate alternative to the Democrats' policies, and in many cases, have made it worse.

Soooo...

What's your point, exactly?

When they provide an alternative you fall all over yourself about it. Then when they don't follow through on it. you laugh at the lack of seriousness. This is why shutdown is necessary. At some point it has to be established that this is more than a game.

Meck77
09-30-2013, 10:39 PM
Infinite QE isn't working. Been calling the fed bluff they would ease it for many months now. I'm sorry for any friends that might lose their pay in the coming days or weeks but the system isn't functioning. Should be an interesting week ahead.

Well maybe Obama is looking forward to even more golf time. He'll still get paid along with the rest of his republican/democrat buddies.

Maybe if the Rs and Ds **** this up enough American's will wake up and give a third party a chance someday.

16 trillion and they are worried we are running out of money. Are you ****ting me? We ran out of money 16 trillion ago.

pricejj
10-01-2013, 12:27 AM
Okay?

It also shows that when it comes to growing spending, just like the ACA debate, the Republicans in practice have not provided an adequate alternative to the Democrats' policies, and in many cases, have made it worse.


Actually I've brought up dozens of alternatives to make healthcare cheaper in the U.S., as have many other posters.

Obama and the Democrats picked the MOST expensive solution, and won't change ANYTHING (in the 2500 pages) until they're voted out.

pricejj
10-01-2013, 12:29 AM
At some point it has to be established that this is more than a game.

Yeah, no ****. To these Socialists it's always a game to see how much they can control other people's lives, time, and money. Just to make more for themselves.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 08:55 AM
This shutdown just proves we have a very poorly designed government. When a handful of radical anarchists can misuse procedure to stop the functions of government, you have some major design flaws, especially when you consider that the goal of anarchists is to bring down government. For them, this is success.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 09:18 AM
This shutdown just proves we have a very poorly designed government. When a handful of radical anarchists can misuse procedure to stop the functions of government, you have some major design flaws, especially when you consider that the goal of anarchists is to bring down government. For them, this is success.


You are much much smarter than this. Look at the real issue Ro. It's not obamacare. That's just a symptom. The cancer/debt is our problem.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 10:02 AM
You are much much smarter than this. Look at the real issue Ro. It's not obamacare. That's just a symptom. The cancer/debt is our problem.

I think you have to take in the whole context. Reagan cut tax rates for the rich by 50%. That trend has continued since then including huge cuts for corporations. That was part one for the neocon revolution. Clinton got an economic free ride due to the tech and housing explosion, but continued with the Reagan/Bush tax policy. Bush II then squandered the Clinton surplus with a trillion dollar, unfunded war. Meanwhile, Wall Street and the Banks were deregulated and turned capitalism into a casino. So, the rich have been on the gravy train for thirty years, and still are, raking in 95% of the profit from the recovery over the last year. The middle class has carried the load while their wages have stagnated. Then the crash of the casino and the burst of the housing bubble took down the middle class. Government kept spending, but was unable to raise taxes due to the radical tea party cabal in Congress. Instead, they engaged in creative accounting.

We have to do what California is doing to get out of their mess. Raise taxes, cut spending. The current crop of uber-wealthy in America are the richest people who have ever lived. Meanwhile, our country is collapsing. What does that tell you?

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 10:11 AM
I think the Clinton Boom just proves the progressive case. Raise taxes on the rich. Change laws and regulations designed to bring jobs back. Get the people back to work and give them a much bigger piece of the pie. Spread the wealth around. The people produce more and they should get more of the benefit of that production, not work like serfs while the rich party. Get the economy up and running, benefiting the most, not the already wealthy few. In a few years, you're back in surplus.

On the other hand, blame it on the government (or Obama) and do everything you can to bring it down and throw out roadblock after roadblock, install more austerity and more tax breaks for the rich, and you will assuredly drive the U.S. into default.

Fedaykin
10-01-2013, 11:42 AM
I think the Clinton Boom just proves the progressive case. Raise taxes on the rich. Change laws and regulations designed to bring jobs back. Get the people back to work and give them a much bigger piece of the pie. Spread the wealth around. The people produce more and they should get more of the benefit of that production, not work like serfs while the rich party. Get the economy up and running, benefiting the most, not the already wealthy few. In a few years, you're back in surplus.

On the other hand, blame it on the government (or Obama) and do everything you can to bring it down and throw out roadblock after roadblock, install more austerity and more tax breaks for the rich, and you will assuredly drive the U.S. into default.

The debt issue didn't start until Reagan decided to say **** it and give his rich buddies a huge tax cut and then spend like a drunken salor.

For all the poo-pooing about democrats being the part of Tax & Spend, Reagan and the republicans ushered in the Borrow & Spend insanity that continues up to the present.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 01:12 PM
Wow. The polls really show how effective the GOP and Fox have been at selling their "Government is the enemy" ideology over the years. The majority of Republicans support the government shut down:

“Republicans support the federal government shutdown by a narrow 49-44 percent margin.” Democrats are against it 90-6 and so are three-in-four independents (74%-19%). The fact that the GOP is divided evenly on this shows the divide in the party and hammers home the point that it’s the party that’s united that wins these battles. On the debt ceiling, the poll finds that almost two-thirds (64-27%) are against blocking an increase in the debt limit as a way to stop the health-care law. BUT a majority of Republicans support doing just that by a 52%-39% margin, as opposed to 86% of Democrats and 62% of independents who do not. Democrats also lead on the congressional ballot by 9 points – 43%-34%, and while President Obama is at just 45% approval, congressional Republicans are at 17%.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/01/20771776-first-thoughts-welcome-to-shutdown?lite

No wonder Boehner is drinking. Ha!

BroncoBeavis
10-01-2013, 01:56 PM
The debt issue didn't start until Reagan decided to say **** it and give his rich buddies a huge tax cut and then spend like a drunken salor.

For all the poo-pooing about democrats being the part of Tax & Spend, Reagan and the republicans ushered in the Borrow & Spend insanity that continues up to the present.

Only problem with your theory is that federal revenue exploded during Reagans term. The government just grew even faster.

Fedaykin
10-01-2013, 02:37 PM
Only problem with your theory is that federal revenue exploded during Reagans term. The government just grew even faster.

No it didn't, it actually fell off a cliff from the previous 8 years.

Between 1981 (the last year of the Carter budgets and 1989 (the last year of Reagan budget), tax receipts grew at an average annual increase of 6.5%

Now compare that to the previous 8 years which includes a recession:

73-81: 12.7%

Hell, even if you only take Carter's 4 years (and the poor economy/recession that dominated that time), it actually makes Reagan look even worse, with and average of 14%/year increase.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

The idea that Reagan increased tax revenue by cutting taxes is pure myth that basic math destroys.

The thing propping up Reagan (and Carter)? The Baby Boomers coming into their prime. A big bump in demand and work force. Without it, Reaganomics likely would have resulted in a net loss of tax revenue, just like happened under Bush II.

Taco John
10-01-2013, 03:32 PM
I think the Clinton Boom just proves the progressive case.

It doesn't though. It was just another bubble in a series of unsustainable bubbles.

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 04:46 PM
It doesn't though. It was just another bubble in a series of unsustainable bubbles.

The market was inflated to a fat bubble, but otherwise, it was a boom time for business and a budget surplus. Clinton could negotiate and compromise with Newt......that's what's changed. We now have self serving, ideologues who think nothing of shutting government down to get their way. They care about their reelection, then party, then country.

The GOP leadership need to get control of their party again and restore some sanity into the opposition.

houghtam
10-01-2013, 04:48 PM
The market was inflated to a fat bubble, but otherwise, it was a boom time for business and a budget surplus. Clinton could negotiate and compromise with Newt......that's what's changed. We now have self serving, ideologues who think nothing of shutting government down to get their way. They care about their reelection, then party, then country.

The GOP leadership need to get control of their party again and restore some sanity into the opposition.

And don't forget demagogues.

But TJ only cares about "demagoguing" when it's not what he wants to hear. Much like every other conservative on the board.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 04:54 PM
Ok FACTS are coming out now. The democrats had a chance to keep the government open with just two conditions. This was their final offer before the shut down. Just two conditions!

1)Families get the same 1 year relief as big business.
2) Congress has to follow the same rules on obamacare exchanges as their constituents!

I quoted this right from the US SENATE HEARING JUST NOW!


Ok the floor is your democrats. Why on Earth are these two conditions worth shutting down the government?

W*GS
10-01-2013, 05:12 PM
Ok the floor is your democrats. Why on Earth are these two conditions worth shutting down the government?

Why is the government and its finances being held hostage by your GOP for what amounts to a policy difference?

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1379203_10151928810836800_925912897_n.jpg
"Did you see the Giants game on Sunday? They lost 31 to 7. And you know what the Giants didn't say after that game: 'If you don't give us 25 more points by midnight on Monday, we will shutdown the f**kin' NFL!' They didn't say that." - Jon Stewart

Meck77
10-01-2013, 05:16 PM
Ok the floor is your democrats. Why on Earth are these two conditions worth shutting down the government?:)

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 05:27 PM
Ok FACTS are coming out now. The democrats had a chance to keep the government open with just two conditions. This was their final offer before the shut down. Just two conditions!

1)Families get the same 1 year relief as big business.
2) Congress has to follow the same rules on obamacare exchanges as their constituents!

I quoted this right from the US SENATE HEARING JUST NOW!


Ok the floor is your democrats. Why on Earth are these two conditions worth shutting down the government?

The purpose of this cluster**** isn't to delay, it's to kill the bill. In 11 weeks, we'll be going through the same nonsense again. The Tea Party are scared to death that ACA will actually work and give Obama a landmark bill.

Obama, not running again, has Obamacare as his legacy, he's not going to let it go.

Anyway, to answer is it worth shutting the government down?? Of course not, but the House is doing this, not Obama. The GOP opposed Medicare and SS, this is more ideology at work, not government.

The Tea Party are on a suicide mission and I wish them the best of luck and hope they succeed in their 'mission.'

I also hope ACA succeeds, though it will need some serious tweaking.

houghtam
10-01-2013, 05:34 PM
The purpose of this cluster**** isn't to delay, it's to kill the bill. In a year, we'll be going through the same nonsense again. The Tea Party are scared to death that ACA will actually work and give Obama a landmark bill.

Obama, not running again, has Obamacare as his legacy, he's not going to let it go.

Anyway, to answer is it worth shutting the government down?? Of course not, but the House is doing this, not Obama. The GOP opposed Medicare and SS, this is more ideology at work, not government.

The Tea Party are on a suicide mission and I wish them the best of luck and hope they succeed in their 'mission.'

I also hope ACA succeeds, though it will need some serious tweaking.

A year?

Try like, 45ish days.

The "deal" was to get an extension until the next crisis, at which point they will smell blood in the water and expect more concessions, regardless of whether the LAW was legally passed in both houses, signed into LAW (there's that pesky word again), challenged and upheld in the Supreme Court and litigated in a national election which was won (again).

And as far as Obama not letting his legacy go? Even though he's said he won't use it, he could easily use Section 4 of the 14th Amendment to keep the government from going into default. He won't have to though, because the Democrats will always have enough votes in the Senate, and any bill that comes through from the House that Reid doesn't like, he can just table.

There's literally no footing the Republicans have to stand on.

So yeah.

:)

ZONA
10-01-2013, 05:34 PM
I think when the people examine this, they'll see that it wasn't worth shutting down the government over a year delay and the repeal of a very unpopular tax. I'm not sure what Obama and Reid are thinking.

For my part, I'm comfortable with this. I feel like the Republicans offered a reasonable compromise to keep the government open and funded. If Obama and Reid don't want to give an inch, then this is on them.

Are you kidding? All Obama has been doing since he became president is compromising with with those lunatics in the house. Many of the Democratic base thinks he's so far right it's not even funny. It just goes to show you how far right the right has moved in the past 25 years.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 05:35 PM
The purpose of this cluster**** isn't to delay, it's to kill the bill. In a year, we'll be going through the same nonsense again. The Tea Party are scared to death that ACA will actually work and give Obama a landmark bill.

Obama, not running again, has Obamacare as his legacy, he's not going to let it go.

Anyway, to answer is it worth shutting the government down?? Of course not, but the House is doing this, not Obama. The GOP opposed Medicare and SS, this is more ideology at work, not government.

The Tea Party are on a suicide mission and I wish them the best of luck and hope they succeed in their 'mission.'

I also hope ACA succeeds, though it will need some serious tweaking.

What? Condition one simply gives families the same amount of big business time to comply. 1 year.

Now please address the second condition. Why don't the democrats want to be held accountable to the same insurance exchanges as their constituents?

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 05:38 PM
A year?

Try like, 45ish days.

The "deal" was to get an extension until the next crisis, at which point they will smell blood in the water and expect more concessions, regardless of whether the LAW was legally passed in both houses, signed into LAW (there's that pesky word again), challenged and upheld in the Supreme Court and litigated in a national election which was won (again).

And as far as Obama not letting his legacy go? Even though he's said he won't use it, he could easily use Section 4 of the 14th Amendment to keep the government from going into default. He won't have to though, because the Democrats will always have enough votes in the Senate, and any bill that comes through from the House that Reid doesn't like, he can just table.

There's literally no footing the Republicans have to stand on.

So yeah.

:)

You are correct, I changed the time line in my post. ;)

Taco John
10-01-2013, 05:41 PM
The market was inflated to a fat bubble, but otherwise, it was a boom time for business and a budget surplus. Clinton could negotiate and compromise with Newt......that's what's changed. We now have self serving, ideologues who think nothing of shutting government down to get their way. They care about their reelection, then party, then country.

The GOP leadership need to get control of their party again and restore some sanity into the opposition.

You're telling me that Clinton and Newt weren't self serving ideologues?

I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Every politician is doing what they think it right for the country. This issue isn't about the politicians. It's about the voters. This got voted in the last time around when the people said "we had 4 years of this - let's elect 4 more years of this while we figure out what to do next."

That next comes in 2014. In the meantime, these guys are all going to stand by their ground and rightfully say that they're serving the people who elected them. Meanwhile, Obamacare is rolling out. Right now the question that is going to start being asked more and more is "is it ready for primetime," and "is it worth keeping the government shut down over a year delay of it."

I personally think that the Republicans will easily be able to defend the ground they've staked out given that context. Maybe not. Again, it really is going to depend on the people.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 05:46 PM
Taco I think as more and more people really start to understand why it shut down the democrats will have to concede.

Why should congress be held to a different standard then the American people with these forced insurance exchanges?

Why would Obama give Corporations 1 year to sign people up yet not allow middle class families the same amount of time?

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 05:48 PM
What? Condition one simply gives families the same amount of big business time to comply. 1 year.

It's a transparent attempt to kill the bill. They offered to fund government for only 11 weeks in exchange, knowing full well it wouldn't fly.

Now please address the second condition. Why don't the democrats want to be held accountable to the same insurance exchanges as their constituents?

As to your second point, you'll have to ask Democrats, but as it is thrown in with an unacceptable condition, they knew it wouldn't pass.

I personally have no idea why these asshats were allowed an exclusion in the first place. They shouldn't have.

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 05:50 PM
You're telling me that Clinton and Newt weren't self serving ideologues?

I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Every politician is doing what they think it right for the country. This issue isn't about the politicians. It's about the voters. This got voted in the last time around when the people said "we had 4 years of this - let's elect 4 more years of this while we figure out what to do next."

That next comes in 2014. In the meantime, these guys are all going to stand by their ground and rightfully say that they're serving the people who elected them. Meanwhile, Obamacare is rolling out. Right now the question that is going to start being asked more and more is "is it ready for primetime," and "is it worth keeping the government shut down over a year delay of it."

I personally think that the Republicans will easily be able to defend the ground they've staked out given that context. Maybe not. Again, it really is going to depend on the people.

They were able to negotiate and compromise, even though they didn't like each other. That's how it's supposed to work, not the way it's playing out now.

Your 2nd comment, well I don't know how to respond to that, other than. Hilarious!

Meck77
10-01-2013, 05:55 PM
As to your second point, you'll have to ask Democrats, but as it is thrown in with an unacceptable condition, they knew it wouldn't pass.

I personally have no idea why these asshats were allowed an exclusion in the first place. They shouldn't have.

I have no idea either but like I keep repeating and repeating!

CONGRESS HAD A CLAUSE IN OBAMACARE THAT EXEMPTED THEM FROM THE SAME SYSTEM AS YOU OR I!!!!!

Surely most Americans would want congress held to the same standard. So they can debate point 1 and get the government open again.

I'm starting to see why this "small minority" is fighting so hard now. As more facts are coming out Congress might actually have to agree to obamacare standards for themselves! Hilarious! Imagine that!

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 06:00 PM
I have no idea either but like I keep repeating and repeating!

CONGRESS HAD A CLAUSE IN OBAMACARE THAT EXEMPTED THEM FROM THE SAME SYSTEM AS YOU OR I!!!!!

Surely most Americans would want congress held to the same standard. So they can debate point 1 and get the government open again.

I'm starting to see why this "small minority" is fighting so hard now. As more facts are coming out Congress might actually have to agree to obamacare standards for themselves! Hilarious! Imagine that!

If they were serious, that would have been the only condition, and I believe it would have been acceptable. The rest is bull****. They need to see how the ACA plays out, but as I have mentioned, they are scared it will actually work.

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 06:02 PM
Too harsh? :clown:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/new-york-daily-news-house-of-turds-cover-boehner.jpg

Miss I.
10-01-2013, 06:10 PM
I have no idea either but like I keep repeating and repeating!

CONGRESS HAD A CLAUSE IN OBAMACARE THAT EXEMPTED THEM FROM THE SAME SYSTEM AS YOU OR I!!!!!

Surely most Americans would want congress held to the same standard. So they can debate point 1 and get the government open again.

I'm starting to see why this "small minority" is fighting so hard now. As more facts are coming out Congress might actually have to agree to obamacare standards for themselves! Hilarious! Imagine that!

They've always been exempt. It's not new. I am a federal employee and I guarantee you the insurance plans, benefits etc that I get as a civil servant are completely different than what they have. The Obamacare thing is not new, it just highlight the disparity that's always existed and will always exist until they are brought to task. Until they have term limits and oh say not 2 year terms so they are always running, it really doesn't matter what people do voting wise. I don't like the shut down, but if we as a people actually capitalize and force those douchebags to make a real change, beginning with legislating actual limits on their power maybe my time without a paycheck will be worth it. But to be honest I am selfish enough to want it to end soon, because I already have a house in Colorado I've been losing money on for 4 years and will continue to do so this year. If this continues long enough I may not be able to pay my house and apartment and will have short sale my house or worse. TrulyI hope it will end in a week, but who knows. These guys are idiots. Anyway, I am done with the whole thing. When I've finished my required time in VA, I am quitting my job and living off taxpayer's money doing nothing. In other words I plan to run for Congress. :curtsey:

houghtam
10-01-2013, 06:27 PM
I have no idea either but like I keep repeating and repeating!

CONGRESS HAD A CLAUSE IN OBAMACARE THAT EXEMPTED THEM FROM THE SAME SYSTEM AS YOU OR I!!!!!

Surely most Americans would want congress held to the same standard. So they can debate point 1 and get the government open again.

I'm starting to see why this "small minority" is fighting so hard now. As more facts are coming out Congress might actually have to agree to obamacare standards for themselves! Hilarious! Imagine that!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/aug/14/ted-cruz/sen-ted-cruz-says-obama-just-granted-all-congress-/

DenverBrit
10-01-2013, 07:04 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/aug/14/ted-cruz/sen-ted-cruz-says-obama-just-granted-all-congress-/

Well like many, I accepted the exception claim made by Cruz as factual.

It appears it's another of the 'death panel' myths.

Nice find.

elsid13
10-01-2013, 07:13 PM
They've always been exempt. It's not new. I am a federal employee and I guarantee you the insurance plans, benefits etc that I get as a civil servant are completely different than what they have. The Obamacare thing is not new, it just highlight the disparity that's always existed and will always exist until they are brought to task. Until they have term limits and oh say not 2 year terms so they are always running, it really doesn't matter what people do voting wise. I don't like the shut down, but if we as a people actually capitalize and force those douchebags to make a real change, beginning with legislating actual limits on their power maybe my time without a paycheck will be worth it. But to be honest I am selfish enough to want it to end soon, because I already have a house in Colorado I've been losing money on for 4 years and will continue to do so this year. If this continues long enough I may not be able to pay my house and apartment and will have short sale my house or worse. TrulyI hope it will end in a week, but who knows. These guys are idiots. Anyway, I am done with the whole thing. When I've finished my required time in VA, I am quitting my job and living off taxpayer's money doing nothing. In other words I plan to run for Congress. :curtsey:


That whole dating with Oleg is going to work for you, when you run for Congress.

Meck77
10-01-2013, 08:38 PM
They've always been exempt. It's not new. I am a federal employee and I guarantee you the insurance plans, benefits etc that I get as a civil servant are completely different than what they have. The Obamacare thing is not new, it just highlight the disparity that's always existed and will always exist until they are brought to task. Until they have term limits and oh say not 2 year terms so they are always running, it really doesn't matter what people do voting wise. I don't like the shut down, but if we as a people actually capitalize and force those douchebags to make a real change, beginning with legislating actual limits on their power maybe my time without a paycheck will be worth it. :

To impose a mandate on the people and exempt themselves is crap.

Sorry to hear about your property situation. Would be happy to offer any advice I could to help out.

From all the interviews I heard to day on both sides of the isle it sure seems like Reid has dug his heals in and said a big FU to the other side. Like them or not those Rs represent tens of millions of people also. To not even be willing to sit at a table with them won't play out very well.

houghtam
10-01-2013, 08:40 PM
To impose a mandate on the people and exempt themselves is crap.

Sorry to hear about your property situation. Would be happy to offer any advice I could to help out.

From all the interviews I heard to day on both sides of the isle it sure seems like Reid has dug his heals in and said a big FU to the other side. Like them or not those Rs represent tens of millions of people also. To not even be willing to sit at a table with them won't play out very well.

Claiming they exempted themselves is also crap.

rolandftw
10-01-2013, 08:50 PM
I'm actually stunned. I thought this was a great compromise. I can't believe Reid and Obama aren't willing to budge an inch and instead choose to preside over a shut down over such a small concession. I guess I have to credit them for having principles too.

For it to be a compromise, there must be something given up by both sides. All the Republican Party is giving up is only taking out the parts they REALLY don't like about the Affordable Healthcare Act. And that is only, for now. They're not conceding anything on any other issue that the Democrats have.

There are no reassurances that a couple weeks from now, when the budget has to be passed, that there won't be other aspects of the Bill that they want taken out in order to get a Budget passed.

I'm sorry, but the Republican Party will have to do better if they expect anyone to take them seriously that this was a real compromise.

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 09:37 PM
Once again, only one guy in the media has it right:

<iframe width="512" height="288" src="http://www.hulu.com/embed.html?eid=9c1bqzuikqvyzs6xvlpdwa&partner=aol&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.hulu.com%2fwatch%2f539756" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
10-01-2013, 09:39 PM
For it to be a compromise, there must be something given up by both sides. All the Republican Party is giving up is only taking out the parts they REALLY don't like about the Affordable Healthcare Act. And that is only, for now. They're not conceding anything on any other issue that the Democrats have.

There are no reassurances that a couple weeks from now, when the budget has to be passed, that there won't be other aspects of the Bill that they want taken out in order to get a Budget passed.

I'm sorry, but the Republican Party will have to do better if they expect anyone to take them seriously that this was a real compromise.

It's not a bill. It's a law. If they want to change it, they have to amend the law or go back and rewrite it. The president can't just change laws by fiat. No matter how many times the Rethuglican asswipes and their toadies at Fox call it a bill, it's not a bill. It's a law. Whole different animal.

ant1999e
10-01-2013, 10:09 PM
How many times has obama changed"the law" so far?

rolandftw
10-01-2013, 10:29 PM
It's not a bill. It's a law. If they want to change it, they have to amend the law or go back and rewrite it. The president can't just change laws by fiat. No matter how many times the Rethuglican asswipes and their toadies at Fox call it a bill, it's not a bill. It's a law. Whole different animal.

You're right, it's a law. But my point still stands, and that is that the Republicans aren't really giving up anything. It's not a compromise at all, because they aren't giving up anything.

Rohirrim
10-02-2013, 12:06 AM
How many times has obama changed"the law" so far?

As far as I can tell, he hasn't changed any of it.

Meck77
10-02-2013, 07:41 AM
As far as I can tell, he hasn't changed any of it.

Try 19 times.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/sep/25/tom-graves/rep-graves-says-obama-has-changed-aca-19-times/

DenverBrit
10-02-2013, 08:09 AM
Try 19 times.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/sep/25/tom-graves/rep-graves-says-obama-has-changed-aca-19-times/

Kind of.

Our ruling http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-halftrue.gif

Graves said Obama "himself has amended, delayed, or repealed 19 components of his very own law." Based on the analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, Graves has the right number. However, he simplifies the way that many of those 19 changes came about, and by doing that, makes it seem as though the president were more directly involved.

Graves cited these changes as evidence that the law is fatally flawed but he glossed over the differences among them. Some of the changes were significant and some were technical or tangential to the health care law itself.

The basic number is right but there are lot of details of details missing from Graves' assertion.

We rate the claim Half True.

Meck77
10-02-2013, 08:15 AM
Kind of.

Our ruling http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-halftrue.gif

Graves said Obama "himself has amended, delayed, or repealed 19 components of his very own law." Based on the analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, Graves has the right number. However, he simplifies the way that many of those 19 changes came about, and by doing that, makes it seem as though the president were more directly involved.

Graves cited these changes as evidence that the law is fatally flawed but he glossed over the differences among them. Some of the changes were significant and some were technical or tangential to the health care law itself.

The basic number is right but there are lot of details of details missing from Graves' assertion.

We rate the claim Half True.

Ok call it 9.5 times the law was changed then. geez....

DenverBrit
10-02-2013, 08:38 AM
Ok call it 9.5 times the law was changed then. geez....


I doubt it has been changed enough to succeed.

Rohirrim
10-02-2013, 09:20 AM
Try 19 times.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/sep/25/tom-graves/rep-graves-says-obama-has-changed-aca-19-times/

Sounds to me like Congress made the changes.

Such changes are common in Congress, according to our experts.

"Legislators aren't perfect," said Jost. "They don't get everything right the first time. That’s the nature of the legislative process."

It is also clear that Obama did not drive the majority of the changes.

(BTW, Disclaimer: I've always been opposed to the ACA and still am)

ant1999e
10-02-2013, 09:43 AM
"The administration acted on its own to delay the employer mandate, explaining that the systems were not in place to implement it." Why didn't this go through Congress like everything else?

DenverBrit
10-02-2013, 11:15 AM
"The administration acted on its own to delay the employer mandate, explaining that the systems were not in place to implement it." Why didn't this go through Congress like everything else?

Yeah, really. What could go wrong? :)

bombay
10-02-2013, 12:04 PM
The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.

The Lone Bolt
10-02-2013, 12:42 PM
The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.


Well said. :thumbsup:

Fedaykin
10-02-2013, 01:26 PM
The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.

Pretty much sums it up, and is why I'm ROTFLMAO when TJ and others say the democrats are the ones being "obstructionist" in this. Pretty clueless group there.

The Rs have been trying desperately to repeal the ACA. They can't because they don't have the votes in the senate and don't have the WH, and have lost three elections now running on a platform of repealing it.

So, now they are trying this tactic, which is just childish. Reps: you lost, sack up and do your jobs.

ant1999e
10-02-2013, 02:18 PM
ChangescDenverBrit;3929262]Yeah, really. What could go wrong? :)[/QUOTE]

well apparently the other changes went through Congress without a problem.

DenverBrit
10-02-2013, 02:25 PM
well apparently the other changes went through Congress without a problem.
Sure they did, Congress has been a girlie slapping fight since they were elected.

http://blog.recordsetter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Pizza-Slap-World-Record-Gif.gif

Rohirrim
10-02-2013, 03:18 PM
The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.

Bingo! Good post.

Obama has to hold his ground, not just because of the principle you outline here, but for the benefit of future presidents.

pricejj
10-02-2013, 08:22 PM
The problem here is...

What you don't seem to understand is, the US Gov is running just fine without non-essential activities. Shut down non-essential activities anytime you want, for any reason you want. We don't need it. Then, in less than 2 years, we can remove all the Socialists from office. Problem solved.

That's what you get when you ram your Socialist fantasies down the throat of the American people.

Hold the line true American Patriots.

gyldenlove
10-02-2013, 08:30 PM
What you don't seem to understand is, the US Gov is running just fine without non-essential activities. Shut down non-essential activities anytime you want, for any reason you want. We don't need it. Then, in less than 2 years, we can remove all the Socialists from office. Problem solved.

That's what you get when you ram your Socialist fantasies down the throat of the American people.

Hold the line true American Patriots.

So all the veterans who won't get benefits are just unpatriotic assholes who can go die?

bombay
10-02-2013, 08:44 PM
Hoo boy.

Why do I always need to be reminded to stick to the football forum.

pricejj
10-02-2013, 09:35 PM
So all the veterans who won't get benefits are just unpatriotic a-holes who can go die?

That's an outright lie. All the veterans are getting their benefits. Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment are also ALL not affected. The active military is getting paid as well.


The ONLY affected activities are NON-ESSENTIAL. Please get your facts straight.

Rohirrim
10-02-2013, 09:47 PM
Hoo boy.

Why do I always need to be reminded to stick to the football forum.

He does the same thing over there. :P

Rigs11
10-02-2013, 09:59 PM
Oops
A series of leaked emails authored by House Speaker John Boehner’s chief of staff Mike Sommers show that the Speaker may have coordinated with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to exempt Congress from Obamacare.

The emails were leaked Tuesday by Reid chief of staff David Krone, who actually has a history of this sort of thi
The leaks, which are a major taboo in Washington, show Boehner (R-Ohio) worked behind the scenes earlier this year to address confusion over a provision in the Affordable Care Act that would force members of Congress and their aides into the exchanges. In fact, if one were to go by the leaks, which were first published by Politico, it appears that the offices of Boehner and Reid regularly coordinated to exempt Congress from the health care law.

But given that Boehner is now apparently against congressional Obamacare exemptions, the emails make him look inconsistent and hypocritical – which may have been the point of their leaking.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/02/harry-reids-office-leaks-boehner-office-emails-and-it-could-ruin-any-faith-you-have-in-washington/

Rigs11
10-02-2013, 10:01 PM
[B]ehind-the-scenes, Boehner and his aides worked for months with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), and others, to save these very same, long-standing [congressional Obamacare] subsidies, according to documents and e-mails provided to POLITICO. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) was also aware of these discussions, the documents show.

One email even appears to show that Boehner’s office discussed how it would disguise a planned meeting on the subject with President Barack Obama as a meeting on immigration reform, National Review Online reported.

frerottenextelway
10-02-2013, 11:18 PM
Seems reasonable...


Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
One year delay on the individual mandate
The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
Troops get paid regardless



http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/house-will-vote-plan-keep-government-open-stop-obamacare

So sad how far you've walked back. The medical device tax is something that the democratic majority have agreed upon for some length of time. Maybe you'll get that, and the people who got their ass whipped can take their victory lap.

TonyR
10-03-2013, 09:38 AM
American voters are divided on Obamacare, with 45 percent in favor and 47 percent opposed, but they are opposed 58-34 percent to Congress cutting off funding for the health care law to stop its implementation. Republicans support the federal government shutdown by a narrow 49-44 percent margin, but opposition is 90-6 percent among Democrats and 74-19 percent among independent voters. http://www.politico.com/playbook/

[T]hese are devastating numbers for the GOP. If their private polling is close to this, we’ll see a deal soon, probably. Except that…individual right-wing members polling their own right-wing districts will see that locally, their numbers are going up! And that is the problem in a nutshell right there. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/01/numbers-that-speak-for-themselves.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

BroncoBeavis
10-03-2013, 09:42 AM
So sad how far you've walked back. The medical device tax is something that the democratic majority have agreed upon for some length of time. Maybe you'll get that, and the people who got their ass whipped can take their victory lap.

The device tax is just a bargaining chip. It is free to get stripped because this is all about the mandate.

It is a funny liberal concept though. A tax on medical devices as part of the "Affordable Care Act"

That pretty much sums up everything you need to know about leftynomics.

TonyR
10-03-2013, 10:11 AM
The Democratic administration, and a sufficient number of Republicans, already agree and are ready enough to compromise to solve this problem. If the normal machinery of democracy were allowed to work, the manufactured crisis would be over. The only reason the senseless damage is being done is that hostage-takers have terrorized members of their own party. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/the-two-basic-facts-that-should-be-in-every-shutdown-story/280179/

DenverBrit
10-03-2013, 10:41 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/the-two-basic-facts-that-should-be-in-every-shutdown-story/280179/

Exactly!

The problem is clear, but idiots are still supporting the Tea Party because they are political simpletons.

TonyR
10-03-2013, 10:56 AM
And there doesn't appear to be much hope of the fever breaking any time soon.

There is no equivalent on the moderate-Republican side to the organisational muscle and rhetorical elan that propels the party’s tea-party wing. No one is lining up to back moderate primary challengers to tea-party candidates. Establishment figures from previous Republican administrations who have found themselves transformed into voices of caution and moderation, such as Mr Gerson, most of the writers at National Review Online, and even (mutatis mutandi) Karl Rove, appear to have little ability to affect the party’s course anymore. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/10/shutdown

gyldenlove
10-03-2013, 11:39 AM
That's an outright lie. All the veterans are getting their benefits. Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment are also ALL not affected. The active military is getting paid as well.


The ONLY affected activities are NON-ESSENTIAL. Please get your facts straight.

That is not true at all. Several programs under VA are shut down or running on reduced schedules including several hot-lines, regional offices are gone. Claim and payment services will be running for another 2-3 weeks and then shut down if funding has not resumed.

Don't call people liars when you don't know what you are talking about son, it reflects poorly on your intelligence.

gyldenlove
10-03-2013, 11:45 AM
And there doesn't appear to be much hope of the fever breaking any time soon.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/10/shutdown

There are two problems right now for the GOP, one is that the Tea Party while not wielding a lot of actual voters has a lot of funding and many more moderate republican candidates have to genuinely worry about losing their seats in primary elections to Tea Party candidates with big campaign coffers, this forces some republican incumbents to vote more along Tea Party lines than they otherwise would. The other issue for the GOP is that moderates are afraid to align themselves with people like Mccain or Bush supporters because of the very negative feelings many voters have towards the Bush administration.

TonyR
10-03-2013, 11:47 AM
That is not true at all...

Yup. And lots of people are working but not being paid. I would consider that "affected".

bombay
10-03-2013, 01:23 PM
NYT says Boehner will not allow country to default, will not invoke Hastert rule.

This is good for the country, so he'll probably lose his Speakership for it.

peacepipe
10-03-2013, 01:50 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-reportedly-assures-republicans-that-debt-ceiling-will-be-raised

The lawmaker, who spoke on the condition of not being named, said Mr. Boehner indicated he would be willing to violate the so-called Hastert rule if necessary to pass a debt limit increase. The informal rule refers to a policy of not bringing to the floor any measure that does not have a majority of Republican votes.

Other Republicans also said Thursday that they got the sense that Mr. Boehner, who held two meetings Wednesday with groups of House moderates, would do whatever was necessary to ensure that the country did not default on its debt.

with that said,shut down will be over relatively soon. with no concessions.

El Minion
10-03-2013, 02:46 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-reportedly-assures-republicans-that-debt-ceiling-will-be-raised


The lawmaker, who spoke on the condition of not being named, said Mr. Boehner indicated he would be willing to violate the so-called Hastert rule if necessary to pass a debt limit increase. The informal rule refers to a policy of not bringing to the floor any measure that does not have a majority of Republican votes.

Other Republicans also said Thursday that they got the sense that Mr. Boehner, who held two meetings Wednesday with groups of House moderates, would do whatever was necessary to ensure that the country did not default on its debt.

with that said,shut down will be over relatively soon. with no concessions.

Denny Hastert Disses the ‘Hastert Rule’: It ‘Never Really Existed’
(http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/03/denny-hastert-disses-the-hastert-rule-it-never-really-existed.html)by Eleanor Clift Oct 3, 2013 5:45 AM EDT

The former Republican speaker’s ‘rule,’ that you can’t bring legislation to the House floor without a majority of GOP votes, is cited as the reason Boehner can’t end the shutdown. But Hastert tells Eleanor Clift it’s a ‘non-entity’—and ‘if we had to work with Democrats, we did.’

There’s been a lot said in recent days about the so-called Hastert Rule (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/02/the-end-of-the-hastert-rule.html). It is cited as the main reason why House Speaker John Boehner won’t allow a vote (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/30/no-exit-plan-for-boehner-with-clock-ticking-to-government-shutdown.html) to fund the government with no Obamacare strings attached—under the rule, no legislation can be brought to the floor without a majority of Republican votes. But the rule’s namesake, former House speaker Denny Hastert, told The Daily Beast on Wednesday, “The Hastert Rule never really existed. It’s a non-entity as far as I’m concerned.”

He explained that at the 2006 press conference where he is credited with instituting the rule, he was speaking generally and philosophically. A reporter asked if Hastert, who was having trouble getting an immigration reform bill out of committee and building support in the GOP conference, couldn’t get Democrats to work with him. The genial speaker replied that relying on the other party for the bulk of votes is “something I would not generally do,” a fairly benign statement, as he remembers it now, that appears to have morphed into an ironclad rule. “Generally speaking, I needed to have a majority of my majority, at least half of my conference. This wasn’t a rule. I was speaking philosophically at the time…The Hastert Rule is kind of a misnomer.”

Continues (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/03/denny-hastert-disses-the-hastert-rule-it-never-really-existed.html)

pricejj
10-03-2013, 07:25 PM
That is not true at all. Several programs under VA are shut down or running on reduced schedules including several hot-lines, regional offices are gone. Claim and payment services will be running for another 2-3 weeks and then shut down if funding has not resumed.

Don't call people liars when you don't know what you are talking about son, it reflects poorly on your intelligence.

Veterans Affairs isn't projected to run out of money until late October.

Today, the House has passed legislation to continue Veterans Affairs funding (past the end of October) but Harry Reid and Obama refuse to pass anything. Do some research before you post boy.

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20131003/NEWS05/310030032/House-passes-shutdown-exemption-VA

pricejj
10-03-2013, 07:28 PM
Yup. And lots of people are working but not being paid. I would consider that "affected".

Dumb to take a government job when you know that the US borrows 40 cents for every dollar it spends.

The taxpayers simply can't support the Democrat Federal budget. It doesn't matter whether you refuse to accept it or not.

You think taxpayers aren't "affected" by paying interest? You remain clueless.

bombay
10-05-2013, 10:52 AM
Paul Kane ‏@pkcapitol 31m
House Rs just unanimously voted to pay fed workers for time they're not working. Things that wouldn't have happened 10 days ago.

Jetmeck
10-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Seems reasonable...


Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
One year delay on the individual mandate
The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
Troops get paid regardless



http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/house-will-vote-plan-keep-government-open-stop-obamacare



Except the medical device tax pays for a lot of Obamacare so its a no starter........its just another way to defund.

In short its BS

Jetmeck
10-05-2013, 11:02 AM
Paul Kane ‏@pkcapitol 31m
House Rs just unanimously voted to pay fed workers for time they're not working. Things that wouldn't have happened 10 days ago.


Isn;t that nice of them, what about all the money prvate sector has lost and the damage to an already struggling economy ?

DO THEY HAVE A BILL TO FIX THAT ?

Jetmeck
10-05-2013, 11:03 AM
Veterans Affairs isn't projected to run out of money until late October.

Today, the House has passed legislation to continue Veterans Affairs funding (past the end of October) but Harry Reid and Obama refuse to pass anything. Do some research before you post boy.

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20131003/NEWS05/310030032/House-passes-shutdown-exemption-VA


idiot, pure and simple

Lets piece meal the whole damn budget...........

The POS repubs will leave anything OUT they don't like out...........

Like anything that helps the poor for example.

DenverBrit
10-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Just put a clean bill back on the floor for a vote. ****ing idiot politicians!!

Rohirrim
10-05-2013, 12:41 PM
Paul Kane ‏@pkcapitol 31m
House Rs just unanimously voted to pay fed workers for time they're not working. Things that wouldn't have happened 10 days ago.

So, in other words, they're making a crass, purely political move that will add to the debt.

bombay
10-05-2013, 01:11 PM
So, in other words, they're making a crass, purely political move that will add to the debt.

Yes. This is a pretty big deal.

As I understand it, most pay periods for Federal employees end on the 6th, so most were holding off on filing unemployment claims until then.

They still will, but now there's recourse for states to get the federal money back when those workers go back.

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 01:15 PM
So, in other words, they're making a crass, purely political move that will add to the debt.

Lolz. You act like federal workers getting back wages wasn't a forgone conclusion or that you wouldn't be spittling all over your screen if federal workers ended up unpaid for their time in furloughgatory.

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 01:16 PM
idiot, pure and simple

Lets piece meal the whole damn budget...........

The POS repubs will leave anything OUT they don't like out...........

Like anything that helps the poor for example.

If you think about it, budgets should be done in pieces.

All-or-nothing budgets only lead to waste, hostage-taking, and brinksmanship.

El Minion
10-05-2013, 01:17 PM
Paul Kane ‏@pkcapitol 31m
House Rs just unanimously voted to pay fed workers for time they're not working. Things that wouldn't have happened 10 days ago.

LOL Just as idiotic and hypocritical as this quote by the Republicans. “We’re not going to be disrespected, we have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.” Hilarious!

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 01:18 PM
Paid vacation.

I'll take "the way the Federal Government always disciplines employees" for 500 Alex.

Miss I.
10-05-2013, 01:30 PM
A: Back pay is NEVER a foregone conclusion. Given the 6 days of furlough already done this fiscal year, it was especially in question. Frankly I assumed we would not get it. By saying we will this just gives them an opening to keep the government closed longer.
B. Paid Vacation none of us wanted. We did 6 days of it already, which is about $5K on my salary and about $10K plus for higher salaries
C. The last time this happened it took months to get the back pay so **** load of good it does the people who need to pay rent NOW. Geezus.
D. Only Non-Exempt can file unemployment so the exempt workers are currently working without getting paid.
E. Regular Federal workers on the GS Scale have had a pay freeze for 5 years so they haven't gotten any increases in pay short of taking a promotion. This freeze is only the GS, not the SES or of course Congress or the President.

As for other idiotic remarks about Fed workers, we do our jobs because we love our country. We are angry right now because we can't do the jobs we love and because fiscally yet again we got ****ed up the ass. The last anal rape though we knew was coming and planned for. This time however, they tore us up and most of us continued to save our money as much as we could, but it still will require a lot to fix. I was just getting back to pre-furlough savings when this **** hit the fan. My agency is looking at a 20% reduction in the workforce and additional cost reduction measures and we've been under our budget for the past 10 years.

Anyway, carry on, I am going to start editing my resume and looking for a new job.

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 01:38 PM
How many shutdowns have their been before? 16? Not aware of any of them where federal workers weren't paid back.

Certainly didn't happen the last time in 1996 (first time ever involving a Republican Congress/Democratic President)

Miss I.
10-05-2013, 01:47 PM
You will have to excuse me if I don't exactly trust my "leaders" these days. One of the things they are paid to do is the budget and in my 10 years they've neither passed one on time nor passed one that effectively managed our debt. I have very little faith in anyone DC these days. Frankly I am not sure I have faith in anything right now except possibly Peyton Manning.

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 01:49 PM
You will have to excuse me if I don't exactly trust my "leaders" these days. One of the things they are paid to do is the budget and in my 10 years they've neither passed one on time nor passed one that effectively managed our debt. I have very little faith in anyone DC these days. Frankly I am not sure I have faith in anything right now except possibly Peyton Manning.

They really need to start budgeting agency by agency. Oh and stop being utter tools. :)

Jetmeck
10-05-2013, 03:21 PM
Lolz. You act like federal workers getting back wages wasn't a forgone conclusion or that you wouldn't be spittling all over your screen if federal workers ended up unpaid for their time in furloughgatory.


Considering the wack job house of reps who kept holding funds for hurricanes no I wasn't sure they would get their money.

Glad your proud of them for doing their jobs and doing the right thing.

How will they repay all the private sector money being lost ?

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 05:19 PM
Considering the wack job house of reps who kept holding funds for hurricanes no I wasn't sure they would get their money.

Glad your proud of them for doing their jobs and doing the right thing.

How will they repay all the private sector money being lost ?

Lolz, Funny time for you kids to start worrying about that...

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/on-energy/2011/08/25/epas-proposed-ozone-regulation-could-cost-1-trillion

EPA's Proposed Ozone Regulation Could Cost $1 Trillion

W*GS
10-05-2013, 05:22 PM
http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/print-cover-full/print-covers/20131005_cna400.jpg

W*GS
10-05-2013, 05:28 PM
Lolz, Funny time for you kids to start worrying about that...

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/on-energy/2011/08/25/epas-proposed-ozone-regulation-could-cost-1-trillion

That op-ed is over two years old.

EPA's Proposed Ozone Regulation Could Cost $1 Trillion
By THOMAS PYLE
August 25, 2011
Thomas Pyle is the president of the Institute for Energy Research

Who the heck is "Thomas Pyle"?

The Institute for Energy Research has a political arm, the American Energy Alliance, which is responsible for multi-million dollar television advertising campaigns that have attacked energy policy, ideas and positions of the Obama Administration that are contrary to the those held by IER. The American Energy Alliance is run by Thomas (Tom) Pyle, a former lobbyist for Koch Industries. According the its website, the Alliance engages in "grassroots public policy advocacy and debate" regarding energy.

Both IER and the American Energy Alliance are partly funded by the Koch Brothers and their donor network, according to Politico's research, sources - and to reports by Koch-controlled charitable foundations themselves.

Figures. BroncoBeavis is a Koch-sucker.

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 05:34 PM
That op-ed is over two years old.

And?



Who the heck is "Thomas Pyle"?



Figures. BroncoBeavis is a Koch-sucker.

Says Al Gore's Science Advisor's favorite slobknobber. LOL

W*GS
10-05-2013, 05:46 PM
And?

Next you'll be referring to an op-ed telling us that the tensions in Europe are none of our business, and that Hitler fellow has gotten Germany back on its feet.

Says Al Gore's Science Advisor's favorite slobknobber. LOL

Do you really want to get your head chopped off and shoved up your ass, again, about AGW and/or science generally?

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 07:26 PM
Next you'll be referring to an op-ed telling us that the tensions in Europe are none of our business, and that Hitler fellow has gotten Germany back on its feet.



Do you really want to get your head chopped off and shoved up your ass, again, about AGW and/or science generally?

Are you gonna slam the door with a Hansen quote about how accurate An Inconvenient Truth is? LOL

W*GS
10-05-2013, 07:35 PM
Are you gonna slam the door with a Hansen quote about how accurate An Inconvenient Truth is? LOL

You really have a hard-on for Hansen. You still haven't figured out that the science isn't about the people, it's about the facts.

Newton was a real a-hole, so I guess that means all the science he figured out is wrong.

Right, oh-ye-of-****-fer-brains?

Meck77
10-05-2013, 07:36 PM
Well looks like everybody gets a paid vacation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57606174/house-approves-back-pay-for-furloughed-workers-as-shutdown-continues/

BroncoBeavis
10-05-2013, 07:42 PM
You really have a hard-on for Hansen. You still haven't figured out that the science isn't about the people, it's about the facts.

Newton was a real a-hole, so I guess that means all the science he figured out is wrong.

Right, oh-ye-of-****-fer-brains?

Then why can't you bring yourself to admit that Hansen's a pretty blatant politicizer and chronic exaggerator? All you do is defend and deflect on his behalf.

Just makes it look mostly like Team Group Think has team spirit. :)

Was An Inconvenient Truth scientific and accurate?

W*GS
10-05-2013, 07:48 PM
Then why can't you bring yourself to admit that Hansen's a pretty blatant politicizer and chronic exaggerator? All you do is defend and deflect on his behalf.

Play the ball, not the man.

The facts aren't on your side, and so you have to resort to ad hominem.

Typical right-wing bullshart.

Was An Inconvenient Truth scientific and accurate?

Yes.

Play the ball, not the man.

Jetmeck
10-05-2013, 10:19 PM
Just put a clean bill back on the floor for a vote. ****ing idiot politicians!!


Exactly and the dems on the house will ALL vote for it and if just a repubs do this is over.

Did you know the repubs rewrote the rule keeping the dems from asking for this clean Senate CR to be voted on..........>?

No chit they did ?

So they rewrite the rules and Boehner is more worried about his speakership than the whole country...........

POS.........how do you clowns defend this BS ????????????????

Jetmeck
10-05-2013, 10:22 PM
Lolz, Funny time for you kids to start worrying about that...

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/on-energy/2011/08/25/epas-proposed-ozone-regulation-could-cost-1-trillion


As pointed how could a two year old article be related to this mess...............so once again

How will the republicans pay back the private sector losses and fix the harm to our economy.........>?

Don't deflect, answer............?

peacepipe
10-07-2013, 12:27 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-rep-blames-cruz-for-shutdown-he-took-a-lot-of-folks-into-the-ditch


Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA) told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that while he believes many individuals are at fault, including President Barack Obama, he said Cruz and others who bought into the quixotic campaign to defund the Affordable Care Act "took a lot of folks into the ditch."



"But if I had to cast blame anywhere, I would say it was Sen. Cruz and those who insisted upon this tactic that we all knew was not going to succeed," Dent said. "What he did essentially, Sen. Cruz, basically, he took a lot of folks into the ditch. Now that we're in the ditch, you can't get out of the ditch, the senator has no plan to get out of the ditch, those of us who do have a plan to get out of the ditch and will vote to get out of the ditch will then be criticized by those who put us in the ditch in the first place."

BroncoBeavis
10-07-2013, 01:01 PM
As pointed how could a two year old article be related to this mess...............so once again

How will the republicans pay back the private sector losses and fix the harm to our economy.........>?

Don't deflect, answer............?

There have been plenty of multi-billion (in cost) regulatory proposals and burdens put in place over the last 5 years. This is the first time I've heard a proggie ask "But how will the private sector recoup it's costs?" LOL

You elected President "Necessarily Skyrocket" but suddenly care what impact the private sector might feel. LOL

Rigs11
10-07-2013, 01:47 PM
Boner just need to bring the bill to a vote. What is he scared of?

TonyR
10-07-2013, 01:58 PM
The Senate CR funds the government in the coming weeks at a level of $988 billion. The Democrats wanted $1.058 billion. But they passed a bill at Republican levels. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said late last week: “My caucus really didn’t like that. We took a real hit…So that’s one of the largest compromises since I’ve been in Congress.”

Now why did they pass a bill at the GOP’s preferred levels? Because, Reid said late last week, he had assurances from Boehner that the House speaker wouldn’t attach demands to the Senate CR if Reid brought it in at $988 billion. So this whole thing started with a significant Democratic compromise. But once the Republicans decided that they were going to use both the shutdown and the debt ceiling to try to defund and/or delay Obamacare, they couldn’t even vote for a bill that gave them a major fiscal victory. That’s how dug in and crazy they are.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/07/here-are-three-debt-ceiling-lies-you-ll-hear-from-the-gop-this-week.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

BroncoBeavis
10-07-2013, 02:04 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/07/here-are-three-debt-ceiling-lies-you-ll-hear-from-the-gop-this-week.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

IIRC, that "compromise" consists of continuing spending at the recently sequestered level. Reid can say he wanted to spend gazillions more all he wants, but increasing spending under the guise of a "continuing resolution" defies the basic definition.

Rigs11
10-07-2013, 03:48 PM
So let me get this straight.

the ACA is modeled after conservative principles
it's passed by congress
repubs hate obama
they try to defund it 42 times and fail
they say it's unconstitutional but is upheld as constitutional by the supreme court conservatives
repubs hate obama
they tie into the gov funding bill to defund it
gov shuts down
ACA starts anyways
repubs hate obama
they complain that budget is too high even thousgh it is in line with paul Ryan's proposed budget
Boner states that congress should not get special subsidies even though he has worked secretely to give congress subsidies

Does that sum it up?

BroncoBeavis
10-07-2013, 04:11 PM
So let me get this straight.

the ACA is modeled after conservative principles
it's passed by congress
repubs hate obama
they try to defund it 42 times and fail
they say it's unconstitutional but is upheld as constitutional by the supreme court conservatives
repubs hate obama
they tie into the gov funding bill to defund it
gov shuts down
ACA starts anyways
repubs hate obama
they complain that budget is too high even thousgh it is in line with paul Ryan's proposed budget
Boner states that congress should not get special subsidies even though he has worked secretely to give congress subsidies

Does that sum it up?

Which conservative principle does the individual mandate fall under? LOL

And what budget are you talking about? We've been operating on continuing resolutions for over 3 years now. While the Senate has never approved a new budget in all that time.

Rigs11
10-07-2013, 04:29 PM
Which conservative principle does the individual mandate fall under? LOL

And what budget are you talking about? We've been operating on continuing resolutions for over 3 years now. While the Senate has never approved a new budget in all that time.

Repubs produced bills in 1993 that would require people to purchase health insurance. Damn soshalists!Hilarious!

gyldenlove
10-07-2013, 04:48 PM
Which conservative principle does the individual mandate fall under? LOL

And what budget are you talking about? We've been operating on continuing resolutions for over 3 years now. While the Senate has never approved a new budget in all that time.

It was conceived in 1992 by the Heritage foundation and adopted by the Republican governor of Massachusetts in 2006.

pricejj
10-07-2013, 06:30 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/07/here-are-three-debt-ceiling-lies-you-ll-hear-from-the-gop-this-week.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28T he+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

The sequester (agreed on by both parties) calls for $988B discretional spending in 2013. 2014 spending levels drop to $967B

Obviously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

pricejj
10-07-2013, 06:41 PM
It was conceived in 1992 by the Heritage foundation.

Catastrophic only, which would be far less expensive than existing insurance plans (unlike Obamacare).

houghtam
10-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Boner just need to bring the bill to a vote. What is he scared of?

Rachel Maddow put together a list of republicans who are on record saying they would vote for a clean CR bill. These are people that are on record...in their own words.

There are 217 votes.

That's what he's afraid of.

In related news, all regional veterans benefit administration offices will be closed starting tomorrow.

This thing is just about over. Face it, whackos: you lost.

BroncoBeavis
10-07-2013, 08:08 PM
Repubs produced bills in 1993 that would require people to purchase health insurance. Damn soshalists!Hilarious!

So I can take any Democrat or group of Democrats over the last few decades and assume that anything they ever proposed (without even voting on) is a "Progressive Solution?"

Of course this flies in the face of everything you kids are saying nowadays.

Up until 1996, every federal shutdown involved a Democratic congress.

So really, Government Shutdown is a Liberal Solution LOL

houghtam
10-07-2013, 08:12 PM
So I can take any Democrat or group of Democrats over the last few decades and assume that anything they ever proposed (without even voting on) is a "Progressive Solution?"

Of course this flies in the face of everything you kids are saying nowadays.

Up until 1996, every federal shutdown involved a Democratic congress.

So really, Government Shutdown is a Liberal Solution LOL

Yeah, that's a great argument. Sounds a lot like "Bush didn't allow a terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11." LOL

BroncoBeavis
10-07-2013, 08:13 PM
Yeah, that's a great argument. Sounds a lot like "Bush didn't allow a terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11." LOL

Except in my case, there are a dozen+ examples.

Whoops.

TonyR
10-08-2013, 11:21 AM
It’s true that most voters aren’t pleased with Congressional Democrats or Obama, either, but both the extent and the intensity of disapproval are significantly worse for the GOP. (Strong disapproval of Republicans’ handling of things among registered voters is a little higher still at 53%.) That’s not a surprise when no one, including Republicans in Congress, can explain what the GOP hopes to achieve at this point. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-blithely-blunders-on/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-gop-blithely-blunders-on

houghtam
10-08-2013, 11:23 AM
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-blithely-blunders-on/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-gop-blithely-blunders-on no one, including Republicans in Congress, can explain what the GOP hopes to achieve at this point

Add Beavis to that list. LOL

BroncoBeavis
10-08-2013, 11:30 AM
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-blithely-blunders-on/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-gop-blithely-blunders-on

Or just read the inaugural post in this thread. LOL

Although in reality, only one of those items is absolutely mandatory.

Rohirrim
10-08-2013, 11:48 AM
It’s true that most voters aren’t pleased with Congressional Democrats or Obama, either, but both the extent and the intensity of disapproval are significantly worse for the GOP. (Strong disapproval of Republicans’ handling of things among registered voters is a little higher still at 53%.) That’s not a surprise when no one, including Republicans in Congress, can explain what the GOP hopes to achieve at this point.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-blithely-blunders-on/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-gop-blithely-blunders-on

Sure they can explain it. They want to dismantle the entire concept of government created by FDR, LBJ and others. They just realize that's not going to happen, so meanwhile, they'll throw tantrums.

TonyR
10-08-2013, 12:11 PM
[H]ere is a POTENTIAL resolution to this entire stand-off: Congress could pass a clean debt-ceiling for a few months, meeting the president’s requirement of doing it without negotiating. But after that, there’s a negotiation over a longer raise (or ending the debt limit altogether), with the sequester, entitlements, etc. thrown in. Everybody wins: The president gets to say he got Congress to act without negotiating; Boehner can claim he got Obama to the negotiating table. http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20853998-first-thoughts-from-one-crisis-to-the-next-without-any-end-in-sight?lite

Rigs11
10-08-2013, 12:26 PM
Sure they can explain it. They want to dismantle the entire concept of government created by FDR, LBJ and others. They just realize that's not going to happen, so meanwhile, they'll throw tantrums.

Their boy Mittens lost by 5 million votes and so now they are holding the gov hostage by demanding that their policies are still put in place. I wonder if the teabaggers who are supposed to be patriots understand what they are really doing.

Rigs11
10-08-2013, 12:28 PM
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20853998-first-thoughts-from-one-crisis-to-the-next-without-any-end-in-sight?lite

They have the votes. Tanning drunk crying Boner just doesn't want to admit it.

BroncoBeavis
10-08-2013, 01:44 PM
Their boy Mittens lost by 5 million votes and so now they are holding the gov hostage by demanding that their policies are still put in place. I wonder if the teabaggers who are supposed to be patriots understand what they are really doing.

Damned Constitutional Republic! I want a King, Dammit!

LOL

Requiem
10-08-2013, 02:13 PM
I am not sure what they are trying to accomplish.

Ballot access laws are set up certain ways that will likely ensure a two-party system for quite some time, but things like this are just going to make the R's irrelevant unless someone with sanity can reclaim back their party.

houghtam
10-08-2013, 02:17 PM
I am not sure what they are trying to accomplish.

Ballot access laws are set up certain ways that will likely ensure a two-party system for quite some time, but things like this are just going to make the R's irrelevant unless someone with sanity can reclaim back their party.

It's the prototypical "divide and conquer" strategy that is a staple of politics in a two-party system.

Only this time, the Democrats didn't have to do any of the dividing. But they'll be there to pick up the pieces after the whole thing, that's for sure.

Rohirrim
10-08-2013, 02:18 PM
Health care reform is the first sign of the apocalypse.

Requiem
10-08-2013, 02:28 PM
It's the prototypical "divide and conquer" strategy that is a staple of politics in a two-party system.

Only this time, the Democrats didn't have to do any of the dividing. But they'll be there to pick up the pieces after the whole thing, that's for sure.

I don't think either of them are capable of picking up the pieces, they will just get broken further.

houghtam
10-08-2013, 02:41 PM
I don't think either of them are capable of picking up the pieces, they will just get broken further.

For them it doesn't matter whether they do, just as it wouldn't to the Republicans. What I'm referring to the political fallout. The reality is that every day the polls keep getting worse, and the small percentage of Republicans who are responsible just don't have the backing to overwhelm the mainstream. They have to cave, because the public is more moderate than they are. Every day, more Republicans are going on record saying that they will vote for a clean CR. But by the time they do, the damage will have been done, and the media frenzy won't die down for months; just in time for the election season to start. A year from now, most of the extreme right wing Republicans will long since have been primaried by moderate Republicans, who will be backed by the Wall Street they "saved", and in many places, weak Republican districts with motivated moderate and progressive communities will take advantage of it.

That's what I mean by "picking up the pieces".

Requiem
10-08-2013, 02:58 PM
For them it doesn't matter whether they do, just as it wouldn't to the Republicans. What I'm referring to the political fallout. The reality is that every day the polls keep getting worse, and the small percentage of Republicans who are responsible just don't have the backing to overwhelm the mainstream. They have to cave, because the public is more moderate than they are. Every day, more Republicans are going on record saying that they will vote for a clean CR. But by the time they do, the damage will have been done, and the media frenzy won't die down for months; just in time for the election season to start. A year from now, most of the extreme right wing Republicans will long since have been primaried by moderate Republicans, who will be backed by the Wall Street they "saved", and in many places, weak Republican districts with motivated moderate and progressive communities will take advantage of it.

That's what I mean by "picking up the pieces".

Ah, well said. :) Agreed.

BroncoBeavis
10-08-2013, 03:35 PM
For them it doesn't matter whether they do, just as it wouldn't to the Republicans. What I'm referring to the political fallout. The reality is that every day the polls keep getting worse, and the small percentage of Republicans who are responsible just don't have the backing to overwhelm the mainstream. They have to cave, because the public is more moderate than they are. Every day, more Republicans are going on record saying that they will vote for a clean CR. But by the time they do, the damage will have been done, and the media frenzy won't die down for months; just in time for the election season to start. A year from now, most of the extreme right wing Republicans will long since have been primaried by moderate Republicans, who will be backed by the Wall Street they "saved", and in many places, weak Republican districts with motivated moderate and progressive communities will take advantage of it.

That's what I mean by "picking up the pieces".

You keep talking about fallout, but it's really not as bad as you make it out to be.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/cnn-shutdown-poll-plenty-of-blame-to-go-around/

63% "angry" at Republicans, but 57% also show as "angry" at Democrats. A 53% majority are also "angry" at the President. Not enough of a difference to yield a complete surrender a year+ away from the next election.

The only real fallout involves most people cursing both sides. Which (by itself) will have next to zero impact a year from now.

Requiem
10-08-2013, 03:44 PM
This certainly kills any shot they have at taking the Senate, but gerrymandering will help them keep the house.

Mecklomaniac
10-09-2013, 05:29 PM
CU students asked... who do you blame for the shutdown.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vqDVy4Pk61o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

El Guapo
10-09-2013, 05:32 PM
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/09/taliban-mocks-shutdown-lawmakers-sucking-the-blood-of-their-own-people/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-mayor-gray-confronts-reid-on-capitol-steps-over-shutdowns-impact-on-city/2013/10/09/02577428-3103-11e3-89ae-16e186e117d8_story.html

gyldenlove
10-09-2013, 05:51 PM
Health care reform is the first sign of the apocalypse.

Michelle Bachmann thinks it is like the 7th or 8th sign, she is pretty certain this is the end time and the beast will come any day now.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-09-2013, 07:48 PM
Gallup: support for Republicans plummets


Have Republicans been unpopular before? Yes.

Have they been *this* unpopular before? No.

http://on.msnbc.com/GH0PYU

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=steve-benen2DD79853-4F5D-C9F1-9925-E49FC4303133.jpg&width=600

peacepipe
10-09-2013, 09:28 PM
CU students asked... who do you blame for the shutdown.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vqDVy4Pk61o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

is this the best you got!?

frerottenextelway
10-18-2013, 04:09 PM
The device tax is just a bargaining chip. It is free to get stripped because this is all about the mandate.

It is a funny liberal concept though. A tax on medical devices as part of the "Affordable Care Act"

That pretty much sums up everything you need to know about leftynomics.

Bargaining chip, ehh? Good call.

I think the tax raises 28b (by memory, I could be wrong), and Dems have been willing to lose that with an offset in revenue. And the Cruz baby tantrum cost 24b, so that's kinda amusing. Shall be called the Ted Cruz ego tax from this point on.

Shame tea-brains are the most narcissistic group ever imagined, you before your country.

BroncoBeavis
10-18-2013, 04:40 PM
Bargaining chip, ehh? Good call.

I think the tax raises 28b (by memory, I could be wrong), and Dems have been willing to lose that with an offset in revenue. And the Cruz baby tantrum cost 24b, so that's kinda amusing. Shall be called the Ted Cruz ego tax from this point on.

Shame tea-brains are the most narcissistic group ever imagined, you before your country.

They would've traded the device tax for a mandate delay in a heartbeat. Turns out Democrats might've been willing to go to the mat over the mandate. Which will be pretty epically comic when they end up having to delay it anyway.

Because then it will be clear that Republicans only failed in trying to get Democrats to do what ultimately had to be done. Meaning the entire shutdown was really about Democratic obstinance and/or denial. Take your pick.

elsid13
10-18-2013, 04:44 PM
Health care reform is the first sign of the apocalypse.

Actually it was forcing kids to watch Ghostbusters/

frerottenextelway
10-18-2013, 04:55 PM
They would've traded the device tax for a mandate delay in a heartbeat. Turns out Democrats might've been willing to go to the mat over the mandate. Which will be pretty epically comic when they end up having to delay it anyway.

Because then it will be clear that Republicans only failed in trying to get Democrats to do what ultimately had to be done. Meaning the entire shutdown was really about Democratic obstinance and/or denial. Take your pick.

Yes, the entire shutdown was about democrats. The greatest country on earth, God bless her, disagrees. Happy weekend!

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-18-2013, 08:37 PM
Boner is already starting with the excuse-making...

Boehner doesn't want to be blamed for House Republican radicalism. He was "overrun," he claims, during the shutdown crisis.

But this leads to an uncomfortable follow-up question: why did Boehner allow himself to get pushed around by his own members?

http://on.msnbc.com/1exsxDh

Rohirrim
10-18-2013, 10:02 PM
Boehner has to be the weakest Speaker this country has ever had.

Look at the vote! He recommends his party pass the Senate resolution and 144 members of his caucus vote no. And then Boehner comes out giving the victory shake with his fist? What a clown.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2013, 08:01 PM
The shutdown: When Republicans turned on each other

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gop-vs-gop-the-shutdown

...Grover Norquist, the anti-tax Republican who’s rarely known as a moderate, accused Cruz of dragging his party “across broken glass for no purpose” with his doomed plan to destroy the Affordable Care Act.

“Ted Cruz and the people around him said that anyone who didn’t follow his direction on this was a Nazi appeaser,” Norquist told Newsmax TV....

peacepipe
10-21-2013, 07:36 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/politics/cnn-poll-gop-boehner-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

According to the survey, 54% say it's a bad thing that the GOP controls the House, up 11 points from last December, soon after the 2012 elections when the Republicans kept control of the chamber. Only 38% say it's a good thing the GOP controls the House, a 13-point dive from the end of last year.

This is the first time since the Republicans won back control of the House in the 2010 midterm elections that a majority say their control of the chamber is bad for the country.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-21-2013, 08:21 AM
This is the first time since the Republicans won back control of the House in the 2010 midterm elections that a majority say their control of the chamber is bad for the country.

The Bush years should be all the evidence anyone will ever need.

The Lone Bolt
10-21-2013, 09:18 PM
Great job Boner!

CNN Poll: 75% say most Republicans in Congress don't deserve re-election

------------------

"Although incumbent members of Congress of both parties are not very popular, the shutdown seems to have only affected views of GOP incumbents," CNN Polling Director Keating Holland said.

Three-fourths of people questioned in the survey said that most congressional Republicans don't deserved to be re-elected, 21 percentage points higher than the 54% who say most Democrats don't deserve another term in office. Only one in five say most Republicans deserve to be re-elected; 42% say the same thing about Democrats on Capitol Hill.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/politics/cnn-poll-shutdown-re-election/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


Hilarious!

Rohirrim
10-21-2013, 09:50 PM
With the way they've gerrymandered the country, I don't really think it matters.

Fedaykin
10-22-2013, 09:02 AM
With the way they've gerrymandered the country, I don't really think it matters.

Until we come up with a reasonably objective way to set up house districts, the House of Representatives will remain sadly highly unrepresentative.

Meck77
10-23-2013, 03:06 PM
After all the government shutdown BS and Obama crying that he won't negotiate the mandate. Guess what. They are ready to negotiate the mandate. So who is really do blame for the unwillingness to negotiate now when the right thing all along was DELAY THE ****ING MANDATE!

Funny how that works. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-mandate-may-be-delayed-2013-10-23?dist=afterbell

BroncoBeavis
10-23-2013, 03:09 PM
After all the government shutdown BS and Obama crying that he won't negotiate the mandate. Guess what. They are ready to negotiate the mandate. So who is really do blame for the unwillingness to negotiate now when the right thing all along was DELAY THE ****ING MANDATE!

Funny how that works. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-mandate-may-be-delayed-2013-10-23?dist=afterbell

There is no right or wrong. Only Messaging.

Rohirrim
10-23-2013, 03:17 PM
After all the government shutdown BS and Obama crying that he won't negotiate the mandate. Guess what. They are ready to negotiate the mandate. So who is really do blame for the unwillingness to negotiate now when the right thing all along was DELAY THE ****ING MANDATE!

Funny how that works. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-mandate-may-be-delayed-2013-10-23?dist=afterbell

Given the failure of the website launch, I doubt they had much of a choice.

W*GS
10-23-2013, 04:02 PM
Until we come up with a reasonably objective way to set up house districts, the House of Representatives will remain sadly highly unrepresentative.

I'd prefer citizens commissions assisted by computer-based demographic analysis.

None of this partisan legislature-driven safe-seats-for-all-eternity bullshart.

The Lone Bolt
10-23-2013, 04:06 PM
After all the government shutdown BS and Obama crying that he won't negotiate the mandate. Guess what. They are ready to negotiate the mandate. So who is really do blame for the unwillingness to negotiate now when the right thing all along was DELAY THE ****ING MANDATE!

Funny how that works. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-mandate-may-be-delayed-2013-10-23?dist=afterbell

The republicans wanted the mandate to be delayed for an entire year. There is no evidence that the Obama administration is considering such a long delay.

The HHS official, however, indicated that the administration may extend the deadline beyond Feb. 15: “We are exploring options currently and will issue guidance at a later date.”

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 08:45 PM
The citizen mandate should not go in before the business mandate does. LOL that is like some sort of conservative move done by the liberals. Its like bizzarro world because its big biz that has all the money right? not the people? Now i read obamacare super expensive in rural poor areas lol. I thought liberals tried to help poor people? This law is written poorly and what really needs to happen is both parties get together and fix it somehow. Trying to force total repeal to embarassing for liberals they will never do it. Repubs should focus on trying to create laws that really drive down costs and create more competition in the insurance markets. They are blowing it and have no leadership.

cutthemdown
10-23-2013, 08:49 PM
After all the government shutdown BS and Obama crying that he won't negotiate the mandate. Guess what. They are ready to negotiate the mandate. So who is really do blame for the unwillingness to negotiate now when the right thing all along was DELAY THE ****ING MANDATE!

Funny how that works. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-mandate-may-be-delayed-2013-10-23?dist=afterbell

Exactly Obama owns the shutdown. All he had to do was just before shutdown offer up a yr delay to Obamacare. Now you watch he will delay it anyways. So lets say he only delays it 6 mos. That means Obama shut down the govt, did all that BS over 6 mos.

Obama is a horrid leader. The world govts hate us more now, Egypt hates us, Israel hates us, Russia pissed, the EU pissed, Brazil upset, Saudis pissed off, Iran heading towards a bomb and Obamacare a trainwreck.

Congrats on your hope and change.

BroncoBeavis
10-24-2013, 09:27 AM
Exactly Obama owns the shutdown. All he had to do was just before shutdown offer up a yr delay to Obamacare. Now you watch he will delay it anyways. So lets say he only delays it 6 mos. That means Obama shut down the govt, did all that BS over 6 mos.

In reality he probably could've negotiated it down to 6 months. Although Politically, I'm not sure what that would've bought him. And we all know that the political angle is his one and only concern.

peacepipe
10-24-2013, 10:02 AM
Exactly Obama owns the shutdown. All he had to do was just before shutdown offer up a yr delay to Obamacare. Now you watch he will delay it anyways. So lets say he only delays it 6 mos. That means Obama shut down the govt, did all that BS over 6 mos.

Obama is a horrid leader. The world govts hate us more now, Egypt hates us, Israel hates us, Russia pissed, the EU pissed, Brazil upset, Saudis pissed off, Iran heading towards a bomb and Obamacare a trainwreck.

Congrats on your hope and change.

Again you're FOS as usual. The last thing any president should do is negotiate when extortion is being used as a negotiation tactic. Rethugs shutdown the government in hopes that obama & democrats would be weak and cave in to their extortion. It failed miserably. Everyone knowa it was rethugs that shutdown everything.

DenverBrit
10-24-2013, 11:26 AM
Exactly Obama owns the shutdown. All he had to do was just before shutdown offer up a yr delay to Obamacare. Now you watch he will delay it anyways. So lets say he only delays it 6 mos. That means Obama shut down the govt, did all that BS over 6 mos.

Obama is a horrid leader. The world govts hate us more now, Egypt hates us, Israel hates us, Russia pissed, the EU pissed, Brazil upset, Saudis pissed off, Iran heading towards a bomb and Obamacare a trainwreck.

Congrats on your hope and change.

LOL

Another of your unintentionally funny posts. Ha!