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mhgaffney
08-27-2013, 04:48 PM
Obama will launch another war with only 9% support. Incredible. MHG

Obama's Syria Moment
Another Western War Crime In The Making

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/27/another-western-war-crime-in-the-making/

by PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Washington and its British and French puppet governments are poised to yet again reveal their criminality. The image of the West as War Criminal is not a propaganda image created by the West’s enemies, but the portrait that the West has painted of itself.

The UK Independent reports that over this past week-end Obama, Cameron, and Hollande agreed to launch cruise missile attacks against the Syrian government within two weeks despite the lack of any authorization from the UN and despite the absence of any evidence in behalf of Washington’s claim that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons against the Washington-backed “rebels”, largely US supported external forces, seeking to overthrow the Syrian government.

Indeed, one reason for the rush to war is to prevent the UN inspection that Washington knows would disprove its claim and possibly implicate Washington in the false flag attack by the “rebels,” who assembled a large number of children into one area to be chemically murdered with the blame pinned by Washington on the Syrian government.

Another reason for the rush to war is that Cameron, the UK prime minister, wants to get the war going before the British parliament can block him for providing cover for Obama’s war crimes the way that Tony Blair provided cover for George W. Bush, for which Blair was duly rewarded. What does Cameron care about Syrian lives when he can leave office into the waiting arms of a $50 million fortune.

The Syrian government, knowing that it is not responsible for the chemical weapons incident, has agreed for the UN to send in chemical inspectors to determine the substance used and the method of delivery. However, Washington has declared that it is “too late” for UN inspectors and that Washington accepts the self-serving claim of the al Qaeda affiliated “rebels” that the Syrian government attacked civilians with chemical weapons.

In an attempt to prevent the UN chemical inspectors who arrived on the scene from doing their work, the inspectors were fired upon by snipers in “rebel” held territory and forced off site, although a later report from RT says the inspectors have returned to the site to conduct their inspection.

The corrupt British government has declared that Syria can be attacked without UN authorization, just as Serbia and Libya were militarily attacked without UN authorization.

In other words, the Western democracies have already established precedents for violating international law. “International law? We don’t need no stinking international law!” The West knows only one rule: Might is Right. As long as the West has the Might, the West has the Right.

In a response to the news report that the US, UK, and France are preparing to attack Syria, the Russian Foreign Minister, Lavrov, said that such unilateral action is a “severe violation of international law,” and that the violation was not only a legal one but also an ethical and moral violation. Lavrov referred to the lies and deception used by the West to justify its grave violations of international law in military attacks on Serbia, Iraq, and Libya and how the US government used preemptive moves to undermine every hope for peaceful settlements in Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

Once again Washington has preempted any hope of peaceful settlement. By announcing the forthcoming attack, the US destroyed any incentive for the “rebels” to participate in the peace talks with the Syrian government. On the verge of these talks taking place, the “rebels” now have no incentive to participate as the West’s military is coming to their aid.

In his press conference Lavrov spoke of how the ruling parties in the US, UK, and France stir up emotions among poorly informed people that, once aroused, have to be satisfied by war. This, of course, is the way the US manipulated the public in order to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. But the American public is tired of the wars, the goal of which is never made clear, and has grown suspicious of the government’s justifications for more wars.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll finds that “Americans strongly oppose U.S. intervention in Syria’s civil war and believe Washington should stay out of the conflict even if reports that Syria’s government used deadly chemicals to attack civilians are confirmed.” However, Obama could not care less that only 9 percent of the public supports his warmongering. As former president Jimmy Carter recently stated, “America has no functioning democracy.” It has a police state in which the executive branch has placed itself above all law and the Constitution.

This police state is now going to commit yet another Nazi-style war crime of unprovoked aggression. At Nuremberg the Nazis were sentenced to death for precisely the identical actions being committed by Obama, Cameron, and Hollande. The West is banking on might, not right, to keep it out of the criminal dock.

The US, UK, and French governments have not explained why it matters whether people in the wars initiated by the West are killed by explosives made of depleted uranium or with chemical agents or any other weapon. It was obvious from the beginning that Obama was setting up the Syrian government for attack. Obama demonized chemical weapons–but not nuclear “bunker busters” that the US might use on Iran. Then Obama drew a red line, saying that the use of chemical weapons by the Syrians was such a great crime that the West would be obliged to attack Syria. Washington’s UK puppets, William Hague and Cameron, have just repeated this nonsensical claim. The final step in the frame-up was to orchestrate a chemical incident and blame the Syrian government.

What is the West’s real agenda? This is the unasked and unanswered question. Clearly, the US, UK, and French governments, which have displayed continuously their support for dictatorial regimes that serve their purposes, are not the least disturbed by dictatorships. They brand Assad a dictator as a means of demonizing him for the ill-informed Western masses. But Washington, UK, and France support any number of dictatorial regimes, such as the ones in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and now the military dictatorship in Egypt that is ruthlessly killing Egyptians without any Western government speaking of invading Egypt for “killing its own people.”

Clearly also, the forthcoming Western attack on Syria has nothing whatsoever to do with bringing “freedom and democracy” to Syria any more than freedom and democracy were reasons for the attacks on Iraq and Libya, neither of which gained any “freedom and democracy.”

The Western attack on Syria is unrelated to human rights, justice or any of the high sounding causes with which the West cloaks its criminality.

The Western media, and least of all the American presstitutes, never ask Obama, Cameron, or Hollande what the real agenda is. It is difficult to believe than any reporter is sufficiently stupid or gullible to believe that the agenda is bringing “freedom and democracy” to Syria or punishing Assad for allegedly using chemical weapons against murderous thugs trying to overthrow the Syrian government.

Of course, the question wouldn’t be answered if asked. But the act of asking it would help make the public aware that more is afoot than meets the eye. Originally, the excuse for Washington’s wars was to keep Americans safe from terrorists. Now Washington is endeavoring to turn Syria over to jihad terrorists by helping them to overthrow the secular, non-terrorist Assad government. What is the agenda behind Washington’s support of terrorism?

Perhaps the purpose of the wars is to radicalize Muslims and, thereby, destabilize Russia and even China. Russia has large populations of Muslims and is bordered by Muslim countries. Even China has some Muslim population. As radicalization spreads strife into the only two countries capable of being an obstacle to Washington’s world hegemony, Western media propaganda and the large number of US financed NGOs, posing as “human rights” organizations, can be counted on by Washington to demonize the Russian and Chinese governments for harsh measures against “rebels.”

Another advantage of the radicalization of Muslims is that it leaves former Muslim countries in long-term turmoil or civil wars, as is currently the case in Iraq and Libya, thus removing any organized state power from obstructing Israeli purposes.

Secretary of State John Kerry is working the phones using bribes and threats to build acceptance, if not support, for Washington’s war crime-in-the-making against Syria.

Washington is driving the world closer to nuclear war than it ever was even in the most dangerous periods of the Cold War. When Washington finishes with Syria, the next target is Iran. Russia and China will no longer be able to fool themselves that there is any system of international law or restraint on Western criminality. Western aggression is already forcing both countries to develop their strategic nuclear forces and to curtail the Western-financed NGOs that pose as “human rights organizations,” but in reality comprise a fifth column that Washington can use to destroy the legitimacy of the Russian and Chinese governments.

Russia and China have been extremely careless in their dealings with the United States. Essentially, the Russian political opposition is financed by Washington. Even the Chinese government is being undermined. When a US corporation opens a company in China, it creates a Chinese board on which are put relatives of the local political authorities. These boards create a conduit for payments that influence the decisions and loyalties of local and regional party members. The US has penetrated Chinese universities and intellectual attitudes. The Rockefeller University is active in China as is Rockefeller philanthropy. Dissenting voices are being created that are arrayed against the Chinese government. Demands for “liberalization” can resurrect regional and ethnic differences and undermine the cohesiveness of the national government.

Once Russia and China realize that they are riven with American fifth columns, isolated diplomatically, and outgunned militarily, nuclear weapons become the only guarantor of their sovereignty. This suggests that nuclear war is likely to terminate humanity well before humanity succumbs to global warming or rising national debts.

Update:

The war criminals in Washington and other Western capitals are determined to maintain their lie that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. Having failed in efforts to intimidate the UN chemical inspectors in Syria, Washington has demanded that UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon withdraw the chemical weapons inspectors before they can assess the evidence and make their report. The UN Secretary General stood up to the Washington war criminals and rejected their demand.

The US and UK governments have revealed none of the “conclusive evidence” they claim to have that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. Listening to their voices, observing their body language, and looking into their eyes, it is completely obvious that John Kerry and his British and German puppets are lying through their teeth. This is a far more shameful situation than the massive lies that former Secretary of State Colin Powell told the UN about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. Colin Powell claims that he was deceived by the White House and did not know that he was lying. Kerry and the British, French, and German puppets know full well that they are lying.

The face that the West presents to the world is the brazen face of a liar.

Paul Craig Roberts is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. His latest book The Failure of Laissez-Faire Capitalism. Roberts’ How the Economy Was Lost is now available from CounterPunch in electronic format.

Meck77
08-27-2013, 05:00 PM
Not so fast Gaff...........

Sounds like Congress may weigh in here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57600273/potential-military-strike-in-syria-sparks-concern-in-congress/

Rohirrim
08-27-2013, 05:03 PM
So. Has anybody bothered to ask what critical interest to our national security will be addressed by attacking Syria?

Meck77
08-27-2013, 05:26 PM
Get a load of this. Biden going on record saying he would move to Impeach bush if he attacked iran without congressional approval.

If Obama attacks Syria would Biden go after Obama? Ha!

http://www.caintv.com/in-2007-biden-threatened-to-im

peacepipe
08-27-2013, 05:46 PM
So. Has anybody bothered to ask what critical interest to our national security will be addressed by attacking Syria?

None,other then the treatys/agreements we have with the other countries in the UN.

Rohirrim
08-27-2013, 07:35 PM
None,other then the treatys/agreements we have with the other countries in the UN.

I don't hear us including the UN in this decision, do you?

SoCalBronco
08-27-2013, 09:41 PM
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.

theAPAOps5
08-27-2013, 10:20 PM
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Sadly, Me too, it's a lose lose for the majority of us. But ghaffo would rather anyone who would attack the Jews in power. So it's win win for him, regardless of horrible war crimes and gas attacks or Muslim brotherhood.

ant1999e
08-27-2013, 11:25 PM
None,other then the treatys/agreements we have with the other countries in the UN.

You have no gag reflex do you? Cock, balls and all.

Meck77
08-28-2013, 06:48 AM
100,000 slaughtered in Syria the last two years. Where was our response then?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/meast/syria-chemical-weapons-red-line/

alkemical
08-28-2013, 07:18 AM
With information about the cia helping saddam gas Iranian troops and admission they overthrew the pm...I'd be very suspect on information received.

Rohirrim
08-28-2013, 08:00 AM
With information about the cia helping saddam gas Iranian troops and admission they overthrew the pm...I'd be very suspect on information received.

It's kind of funny. So many people have the response, "Oh sure, they were doing that back then, but they're not doing that now. Now, there's oversight." :rofl:

Rohirrim
08-28-2013, 08:02 AM
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Not me. At least with the opposition there is a chance for change. Like in Egypt, the people sent the Muslim Brotherhood packing. I don't doubt the majority would do the same thing to Al Queda in Syria, if they were able to win. With Assad in control, you have no chance.

DenverBrit
08-28-2013, 08:25 AM
With information about the cia helping saddam gas Iranian troops and admission they overthrew the pm...I'd be very suspect on information received.

They need to allow the weapons inspectors time to do their job, we don't need another 'Iraq' and without a 3rd party verification, that's exactly what we might be getting.......another recruiting bonanza for Al Qaeda.

Good read from the BBC.

Syria attack may force search for peace
By Jim Muir BBC News, Beirut

The Western powers have never wanted the rebels to win.
Syrians in Bulgaria protest against Wednesday's suspected chemical weapons attack (23 August 2013) The US and UK insist "significant use of chemical weapons would merit a serious response"

Their strategy has been to redress the balance so that the regime came under such pressure that it would cave in, dump the Assad leadership and negotiate a transition that would exclude the inner ruling circle while preserving stability and state structures.

There has never been evidence to suggest such an approach might work.

The signs have always been that the regime would pull the whole house down around it before capitulating, and also that its strategic allies, especially Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, would not allow that to happen.

In addition, the West faces the reality that the moderate opposition elements it has been trying to boost have proven neither cohesive, credible nor effective on the ground.

Instead, the running has largely been made by Islamist factions, many linked to al-Qaeda.

Full article.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23831696

Pony Boy
08-28-2013, 08:40 AM
So. Has anybody bothered to ask what critical interest to our national security will be addressed by attacking Syria?

Disruption of oil supply. Syria lies in close proximity to pipelines and sea routes that transport much of the world’s crude.

October crude futures surged an ended in a sixth-month high.

alkemical
08-28-2013, 10:53 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria
Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.

The details of the talks were first leaked to the Russian press. A more detailed version has since appeared in the Lebanese newspaper As-Safir, which has Hezbollah links and is hostile to the Saudis.
As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord. “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” he allegedly said.

alkemical
08-28-2013, 10:58 AM
If anyone is interested - here are some links referencing the CIA involvement in the assistance in regard to gassing the iranians and the offical admission of involvement in ousting the PM:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2402174/CIA-helped-Saddam-Hussein-make-chemical-weapons-attack-Iran-1988-Ronald-Reagan.html


CIA 'helped Saddam Hussein carry out chemical weapons attack on Iran' in 1988 under Ronald Reagan
U.S. fed intelligence to Iraq about whereabouts of Iranian forces
Iraq deployed mustard gas and sarin in 1988 on the back of the information
U.S. administration supported Iraq during the eight-year conflict
Up to 20,000 Iranian troops were killed by mustard gas and nerve agents from Iraqi forces during the war


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/18/cia_admits_it_was_behind_irans_coup


CIA Admits It Was Behind Iran's Coup
The agency finally owns up to its role in the 1953 operation.


And we're supposed to buy this claim of chem weapons in Syria?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/27/collapse-reported-temple-mount

Seems like a script.

baja
08-28-2013, 11:37 AM
A government by the people for the people to serve the people.


Do you feel it?

peacepipe
08-28-2013, 11:45 AM
I don't hear us including the UN in this decision, do you?

We're in talks with UN countries france ,England,turkey and other countries are already on board with the USA. What's going on is Russia & china have veto power,just like the USA has veto power and they are exercising it.

Personally,I don't support bombing syria , because I don't think we should be policing everything that happens around the world & if you break it you get stuck for years fixing it.

peacepipe
08-28-2013, 11:48 AM
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Assad will remain in charge,in large part because any attack we do will not be with the intent of removing Assad from power.

Traveler
08-28-2013, 11:53 AM
It's kind of funny. So many people have the response, "Oh sure, they were doing that back then, but they're not doing that now. Now, there's oversight." :rofl:

Exactly!

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 01:24 PM
Sadly, Me too, it's a lose lose for the majority of us. But ghaffo would rather anyone who would attack the Jews in power. So it's win win for him, regardless of horrible war crimes and gas attacks or Muslim brotherhood.

You're insane, APA. We all lose.

The goal of this proxy war appears to be the balkanization of Syria.

Now who would want that? Answer: Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

Those are the facts. MHG

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 01:28 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria
Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.

Russia will not accept such a deal. Putin correctly understands that Syria is vital for Russian security. If Syria is destroyed, Iran will soon follow, then Russia.

The line is drawn in the sand. Imagine if a Russian ship is sunk in the Mediterranean.

Unfortunately, there is no JFK in the White House to stand firm against the generals. Obama is spineless -- has allowed the generals to push him around.

Madmen rule the West.

MHG

theAPAOps5
08-28-2013, 01:30 PM
You're insane, APA. We all lose.

The goal of this proxy war appears to be the balkanization of Syria.

Now who would want that? Answer: Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

Those are the facts. MHG

No sir, you are clearly the one who is off his rocker and most likely a sociopath.

orinjkrush
08-28-2013, 01:37 PM
I think Russia is more concerned with the possible competition in natural gas pipelines that a more business "friendly" Syria might pose. Russia has a stranglehold on Europe in terms of energy right now.

Second, Obama is owned lock stock and barrel, not by the Pentagon, but by the CIA. I would really like to know who is driving the CIA, 'cause it's not the "public" administration. I'm wondering if there is a hidden, big money cabal driving the CIA somehow.

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 01:56 PM
No sir, you are clearly the one who is off his rocker and most likely a sociopath.

Why? Because I consistently call for peace -- not war?

You are just another Amerikkkan on steroids.

MHG

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 01:58 PM
Apparently Russia presented satellite photos to the UN Security Council proving that the missiles came from a rebel stronghold.

Why is the US media not covering this? Three guesses. MHG

Is the Drive for War on Syria to Cover Up a War Crime?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36000.htm

By William Bowles

According to the source, Russia’s ambassador in the UN Security Council, Vitaly Churkin, presented conclusive evidence – based on documents and Russian satellite images – of two rockets carrying toxic chemicals, fired from Douma, controlled by the Syrian “rebels”, and landing on East Ghouta. Hundreds of “rebels”, as well as civilians – including those children on the cover of Western corporate media papers – were killed. The evidence, says the Russian source, is conclusive. – Pepe Escobar

August 27, 2013 "Information Clearing House - "williambowles " - Shattering news if indeed it’s true, that it was two missiles fired by rebels from a place called Douma in the suburbs of Damascus, which is indeed under rebel control, that did the damage. No wonder the Empire is in a panic to go to war if it gets out that it was actually the side its arming and supporting that caused such horrendous loss of life!

The mad, panic-driven desire to destroy being exhibited by the USUK maybe the reason for the drive toward war as it will (hopefully) obscure and relegate to history what actually took place. The threat of war on Syria is some terrible psychopathic sideshow and well within the remit of the barbarians, who it is clear will stop at nothing to achieve their objectives. Unless stopped.

If what Escobar reports (and another source, see below) is really true, then it means that the rebels actually did kill hundreds of people, including its own soldiers! Maybe even a thousand or more. No wonder the West doesn’t want it to be investigated! The UN inspection team has no remit to try and find out who is actually responsible, just whether some kind gas attack took place.

All that guff about, ‘it’s too late, Assad has gotten rid of the evidence’ or, ‘you should have let us in earlier’, is just a smokescreen. What the West HAS to do, is try and cover it up, like they did to the thousands of Iraqi troops who were bulldozed in their trenches, alive, buried in sand.

More Confirmation

Below is a short promo of an interview with an Syrian activist confirming the report made by Pepe Escobar above. It’s on the Boiling Frogs website but you need a paid subscription to view the entire video, which is a bit of a drag. And I’d like to see the satellite images and any accompanying information. Why aren’t the Russians making a bigger play of the information they allegedly have? IT could stop this war thing in its tracks!

Rohirrim
08-28-2013, 02:10 PM
**** the Russians. A bunch of thugs and liars. Who would be dumb enough to believe anything the Russians have to say?

I looked up Pepe Escobar. He works for Russian and Iranian TV. Could you be more ****ing gullible?

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 02:10 PM
CBS NEWS/ August 27, 2013, 7:31 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57600202/syria-challenges-u.s-to-produce-the-evidence-that-assad-regime-launched-chemical-attack/

Syria challenges U.S. to "produce the evidence" that Assad regime launched chemical attack

Syria's foreign minister challenged the Obama administration and its allies on Tuesday to "produce the evidence" showing Bashar Assad's government was behind a chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus last week, saying the information available on which side was behind the deadly attack provided a "weak and inaccurate" case for military intervention from the West.

Walid Muallem said he was holding the televised news conference in Damascus to inform the American public that the Obama administration's assertion that there could be "little doubt" the Assad regime was behind the apparent chemical attack in the eastern Ghouta suburbs of Damascus "is completely wrong."

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 02:20 PM
Events are rapidly spinning out of control. Prince Bandar has reportedly threatened Russia with terrorism if Russia does not accept the destruction of Syria. Incredible.

Let us remember, this is the same Prince Bandar whose wife supplied cash to two of the 9/11 terrorists.
MHG

Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria
Posted by EU Times on Aug 27th, 2013 //

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/08/putin-orders-massive-strike-against-saudi-arabia-if-west-attacks-syria/

A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria.

According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia.

Lebanese newspaper As-Safir confirmed this amazing threat against Russia saying that Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord by stating: “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us.”

Prince Bandar went on to say that Chechens operating in Syria were a pressure tool that could be switched on an off. “These groups do not scare us. We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role in Syria’s political future.”

DenverBrit
08-28-2013, 02:22 PM
LOL

Gaffney, you're such a dupe.

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 02:29 PM
Given that 90% of the US media is controlled by 6 corporations -- I'd say the real dupes are those Americans foolish enough to believe what they hear and see on US TV.

DenverBrit
08-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Given that 90% of the US media is controlled by 6 corporations -- I'd say the real dupes are those Americans foolish enough to believe what they hear and see on US TV.

Try reading outside the country instead of spamming the board with nonsense being peddled by the conspiracy wacko sites. :loopy:

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 02:36 PM
Evidently Prince Bandar went to Moscow last month -- and presented Putin with inducements to allow the West to destroy Syria. Bandar also delivered a veiled threat.

Has this meeting been reported in the western media?

The meeting adds to the evidence that the recent chemical weapons attack was staged - a false flag operation.

MHG

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#ixzz2d5UVLSNv

DenverBrit
08-28-2013, 02:47 PM
Evidently Prince Bandar went to Moscow last month -- and presented Putin with inducements to allow the West to destroy Syria. Bandar also delivered a veiled threat.

Has this meeting been reported in the western media?

The meeting adds to the evidence that the recent chemical weapons attack was staged - a false flag operation.

MHG

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#ixzz2d5UVLSNv

Endlessly. As usual, you're too ****ing lazy to even Google the stories you claim no one is reporting.

Reuters reported this story weeks ago, and I'm sure the BBC also reported it...as did the Telegraph. And those are just the sources I remember.

W*GS
08-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Why? Because I consistently call for peace -- not war?

You call for the destruction of America (and Israel too).

You think that means peace.

You're a sociopath.

mhgaffney
08-28-2013, 05:33 PM
So, calling for an end to the wars is tantamount to calling for the destruction of Israel and the US.

Welcome to knee jerk America.

theAPAOps5
08-28-2013, 09:45 PM
Why? Because I consistently call for peace -- not war?

You are just another Amerikkkan on steroids.

MHG

PSYCHO......

ak1971
08-28-2013, 10:20 PM
Obama will launch another war with only 9% support. Incredible. MHG

Obama's Syria Moment
Another Western War Crime In The Making

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/27/another-western-war-crime-in-the-making/

by PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

.

You know you can catch something from sucking throat yogurt from Paul right?

houghtam
08-28-2013, 10:52 PM
You know you can catch something from sucking throat yogurt from Paul right?

Throgurt.

It's cursed, but it comes with your choice of toppings...also cursed.

That's bad.

W*GS
08-29-2013, 06:23 AM
So, calling for an end to the wars is tantamount to calling for the destruction of Israel and the US.

Welcome to knee jerk America.

Coy isn't your best tactic.

You go far beyond "calling for an end to the wars".

You're as much of a "peace activist" as Rummy.

Rohirrim
08-29-2013, 11:57 AM
Rumsfeld says that Obama hasn't made the case for Syrian intervention:
"One thing that's very interesting, it seems to me, is that there really hasn't been any indication from the administration as to what our national interest is with respect to this particular situation," Rumsfeld said in an interview with Fox Business Network.

'Scuse me while I :spit:

baja
08-29-2013, 12:09 PM
Rumsfeld says that Obama hasn't made the case for Syrian intervention:
"One thing that's very interesting, it seems to me, is that there really hasn't been any indication from the administration as to what our national interest is with respect to this particular situation," Rumsfeld said in an interview with Fox Business Network.

'Scuse me while I :spit:


While I agree we should stay out of Syria how do people like Rumsfeld with his part in the Iraq fiasco make a statement like this. How do they live with themselves

mhgaffney
08-29-2013, 01:11 PM
Let us pray that saner heads prevail. MHG

Russia warns West over 'illegal' Syria intervention


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10266449/Russia-warns-West-over-illegal-Syria-intervention.html
Russian foreign minister warns West that military intervention in Syrian conflict without UN Security Council approval would violate international law, as UN inspectors finally arrive at site of last week's suspected chemical weapons attack.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters that the use of military force by the West against Assad's regime without the approval of the UN Security Council "is a very grave violation of international law".

Speaking at a hastily convened news conference, he added that the West was currently moving towards "a very dangerous path, a very slippery path".
His comments came after William Hague today refused to rule out bombing Assad regime targets within days, warning that the Syrian regime could not be allowed to use chemical weapons against its own people “with impunity”, following an alleged attack last week in which at least 355 people were killed and 3,600 injured.

Royal Navy vessels are being readied to take part in a possible series of cruise missile strikes, alongside the United States, as military commanders finalise a list of potential targets.

The British Foreign Secretary said "there is no possible explanation other than that [the alleged chemical attack] has been carried out by the Assad regime".

But Lavrov told reporters that the West has been unable to produce any evidence to back claims that the Syrian government used chemical weapons.
"They (the West) have not been able to come up with any proof but are saying at the same time that the red line has been crossed and there can be no delay," Lavrov said.

Syrian activists with the bodies of some of the victims in Damascus (Reuters)
Earlier today, UN inspectors finally reached the site of the alleged atrocities in Syria's capital to launch an investigation into last week's suspected chemical weapons attack, meeting doctors and casualties.

Inspectors had been given the green light to visit the site on Sunday, four days after the alleged attacks, following mounting pressure and accusations of responsibility against President Bashar al-Assad for the strikes from Western countries.

But the UN experts had been initially forced to abandon their investigation after they were 'deliberately' targeted while travelling in convoy to the site of the alleged atrocities by snipers.

"The inspectors managed to enter the town of Moadamiyet al-Sham with civilians, and visited the Red Crescent centre where they met doctors," Abu Nadim, an activist in Damascus province, told AFP via Skype earlier today.

Lavrov warned that in any case Western intervention on the side of the opposition forces would be a "grave mistake" and scupper any hopes of convening a peace conference to resolve the conflict.

"If anyone thinks that destroying Syria's military infrastructure and leaving the battleground open for the opposition to take victory would be the end of it, that is an illusion," said Lavrov.

"Even in case of such a victory, civil war will continue, only the side of the government will be the opposition side."

After journalists repeatedly asked Lavrov how Russia would react to the possible Western intervention he also said: "We (Russia) do not intend to fight with anyone."

Lavrov also accused the West of double standards in foreign policy.
He said: "You cannot fight with a regime only because you don't like the dictator that heads it and then not fight another regime where you like the authoritarian ruler."

Russia, one of the few remaining allies of Assad, told Syria to cooperate with UN experts investigating reports of a deadly chemical weapons attack on Friday.

mhgaffney
08-29-2013, 01:34 PM
Syria reportedly has the world's most advanced anti ship missile -- known the Yakhonts. These are ship killers. They have never been used in combat.

If the US destroyers attack, Syria will be within its rights to counter -- and sink the US warships.

Syria appears to have the capability. The Yakhonts has a range of 180 miles and is extremely accurate.
MHG


Russia Sends More Advanced Missiles to Aid Assad in Syria

By MICHAEL R. GORDON and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: May 16, 2013


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/17/world/middleeast/russia-provides-syria-with-advanced-missiles.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Rohirrim
08-29-2013, 01:34 PM
Yeah. If the West were to intervene in Syria, it would mess up Russia's intervention in Syria. Ha!

houghtam
08-29-2013, 01:55 PM
Syria reportedly has the world's most advanced anti ship missile -- known the Yakhonts. These are ship killers. They have never been used in combat.

If the US destroyers attack, Syria will be within its rights to counter -- and sink the US warships.

Syria appears to have the capability. The Yakhonts has a range of 180 miles and is extremely accurate.
MHG


Russia Sends More Advanced Missiles to Aid Assad in Syria

By MICHAEL R. GORDON and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: May 16, 2013


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/17/world/middleeast/russia-provides-syria-with-advanced-missiles.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Yakhont effective range - ~200mi

Tomahawk effective range - ~900mi

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think we should be committing any troops over there under almost any circumstances, but these missiles are hardly a threat. The biggest threat Syria poses is its air defense system.

peacepipe
08-29-2013, 01:57 PM
If I were Obama I would put it to a vote in congress, seems everyone in Congress is asking to be consulted but none as I have seen has said to put it to a vote. Everyone,especially rethugs, want to have their cake & eat it too. I would put everybody on the record.

mhgaffney
08-29-2013, 01:59 PM
Right -- so long as the US ships stay out of range.

Last month, Israel attacked Syrian missile batteries along the coast -- an attempt to destroy or degrade the Yakhonts missiles. http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_07_14/Israel-hits-Syria-to-destroy-Russian-made-Yakhont-anti-ship-missiles-3943/

ant1999e
08-29-2013, 02:07 PM
If I were Obama I would put it to a vote in congress, seems everyone in Congress is asking to be consulted but none as I have seen has said to put it to a vote. Everyone,especially rethugs, want to have their cake & eat it too. I would put everybody on the record.

It's very telling how we're talking about attacking another country and the fact that people will die. That a government is poisoning and killing its own people and all you're worried about is saving face for your lord and saviour and the Party.:thumbsdow

houghtam
08-29-2013, 02:11 PM
If I were Obama I would put it to a vote in congress, seems everyone in Congress is asking to be consulted but none as I have seen has said to put it to a vote. Everyone,especially rethugs, want to have their cake & eat it too. I would put everybody on the record.

That is the only route he can go without looking like a total fool and hypocrite on this issue. Even then there is nothing that says we always need to be in the van. The Brits are making noise saying this would be justified, and Israel's military can handle anyone in the region. Let one of them take the lead on this one.

The world knows what we're capable of. Sitting this one out unless absolutely necessary won't make people think we're weak. And if they do, well...that's their own mistake.

baja
08-29-2013, 02:17 PM
http://www.infowars.com/libya-and-syria-the-neocon-plan-to-attack-seven-countries-in-five-years/

Watch vid of Wesley Clark disclosing the long standing plan to attack 7 Middle East countries. The plan to engage Syria has just waiting for an excuse to jump in.

Rohirrim
08-29-2013, 02:22 PM
There hasn't been a left-of-center Democrat with any real power in this country for over thirty years. Obama is to the right of Nixon. Truth hurts.

The propaganda says that there is a counter-balance on the Left. No there isn't. And there hasn't been for years.

peacepipe
08-29-2013, 03:09 PM
It's very telling how we're talking about attacking another country and the fact that people will die. That a government is poisoning and killing its own people and all you're worried about is saving face for your lord and saviour and the Party.:thumbsdow

It isn't about saving face,it's about a bunch of cowards who want to bitch & complain but don't have the balls to own it with a vote. They want to sit back and say they were for it if its successful but want to point the finger if it isn't.

peacepipe
08-29-2013, 03:49 PM
England is out, their Parliament just voted against any attacks and although Cameron voiced public support for it will not override the vote.

DenverBrit
08-29-2013, 03:57 PM
England is out, their Parliament just voted against any attacks and although Cameron voiced public support for it will not override the vote.

That wasn't as surprising as this:

But - in an unexpected turn of events - MPs also rejected the government's motion in support of military action in Syria if it was supported by evidence from United Nations weapons inspectors, who are investigating claims President Bashar al-Assad's regime had used chemical weapons against civilians.

BroncoBeavis
08-29-2013, 04:05 PM
It isn't about saving face,it's about a bunch of cowards who want to b**** & complain but don't have the balls to own it with a vote. They want to sit back and say they were for it if its successful but want to point the finger if it isn't.

How would you define "success" in this scenario?

Meck77
08-29-2013, 05:38 PM
Good for the Brits. Hopefully we follow suit and tell Israel to attack Syria if they feel threatened. I highly doubt it.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-29-2013, 05:51 PM
There hasn't been a left-of-center Democrat with any real power in this country for over thirty years. Obama is to the right of Nixon. Truth hurts.

The propaganda says that there is a counter-balance on the Left. No there isn't. And there hasn't been for years.

This.

At the end of the day, Obama answers to the same Wall Street masters as every president since JFK.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-29-2013, 05:57 PM
It's very telling how we're talking about attacking another country and the fact that people will die. That a government is poisoning and killing its own people and all you're worried about is saving face for your lord and saviour and the Party.:thumbsdow

Sort of like you and your fellow Bush blowers with bogus Iraq intel?

baja
08-29-2013, 05:57 PM
This.

At the end of the day, Obama answers to the same Wall Street masters as every president since JFK.


You will want to watch this;

http://usawatchdog.com/time-to-tell-these-crooks-theyre-fired-karen-hudes/

You can thank me later ;D

barryr
08-30-2013, 07:39 AM
I wonder if we'll see demonstrations of "war with Syria all about oil?" No, I doubt it. The double talk is comical, but the norm. I still believe Iraq funneled weapons to Syria a decade ago, but it didn't fit the narrative at the time.

peacepipe
08-30-2013, 07:49 AM
I wonder if we'll see demonstrations of "war with Syria all about oil?" No, I doubt it. The double talk is comical, but the norm. I still believe Iraq funneled weapons to Syria a decade ago, but it didn't fit the narrative at the time.

Considering the crap you post,I'm not surprised.

houghtam
08-30-2013, 08:36 AM
Considering the crap you post,I'm not surprised.

Well I mean, I suppose it's possible that Iraq could have independently and coincidentally had WMDs (that they subsequently got rid of in such a way that there was no trace of them)...

But the evidence the administration said they had has long since been proven to be doctored or fabricated entirely.



Like I said though, Obama has a long way to go in proving there is any reason at all we should go in there. The first step would be acknowledging members of Congress' wishes (180 now have signed the petition), calling them back into session, making his case and calling for a vote.

Even then I still don't believe we should commit military assets to the region (any more than are already stationed there), and considering now the Brits are sitting this one out, maybe you know, I dunno, taking a page from his own speeches and realizing that the international community has a voice too, and maybe, just maybe there is something to most of the rest of the world choosing to have nothing to do with it.

baja
08-30-2013, 09:07 AM
Well I mean, I suppose it's possible that Iraq could have independently and coincidentally had WMDs (that they subsequently got rid of in such a way that there was no trace of them)...

But the evidence the administration said they had has long since been proven to be doctored or fabricated entirely.



Like I said though, Obama has a long way to go in proving there is any reason at all we should go in there. The first step would be acknowledging members of Congress' wishes (180 now have signed the petition), calling them back into session, making his case and calling for a vote.

Even then I still don't believe we should commit military assets to the region (any more than are already stationed there), and considering now the Brits are sitting this one out, maybe you know, I dunno, taking a page from his own speeches and realizing that the international community has a voice too, and maybe, just maybe there is something to most of the rest of the world choosing to have nothing to do with it.

The trouble is O did not find out who his real boss was until he got into office.

Bigloco
08-30-2013, 09:28 AM
Thought this was a decent opinion piece...other than the "christian" bs..

Obama, Don't Rush! (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/opinion/paul-syria-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

peacepipe
08-30-2013, 10:18 AM
Thought this was a decent opinion piece...other than the "christian" bs..

Obama, Don't Rush! (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/opinion/paul-syria-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

I don't know about it being decent but it is an opinion.

I

alkemical
08-30-2013, 11:05 AM
So...did the CIA assist in chemical weapons usage in Syria (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he _gassed_iran)?

Why is Saudi Arabia making raw deals to russia (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html)?

One other question, is i wonder whom declassified the Intelligence Agency's papers. I'd like to understand what was being looked for, or motivation.

ant1999e
08-30-2013, 11:19 AM
Thought this was a decent opinion piece...other than the "christian" bs..

Obama, Don't Rush! (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/opinion/paul-syria-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

What Christian BS?

1. The arms supplied to the Islamic rebels may well be used against Christians;

I don't know what about this is BS.

houghtam
08-30-2013, 11:22 AM
What Christian BS?

1. The arms supplied to the Islamic rebels may well be used against Christians;

I don't know what about this is BS.

Would the same statement with "Christians" replaced with "citizens" have achieved the same purpose?

Would the statement, as is, argued in Congress for the world to see help or hurt our standing with the Islamic world?

ant1999e
08-30-2013, 11:31 AM
Would the same statement with "Christians" replaced with "citizens" have achieved the same purpose?

Would the statement, as is, argued in Congress for the world to see help or hurt our standing with the Islamic world?

Big picture, I get your point. Especially when it is suspected that Muslim extremists may be among the ones we arm. However, the attacks on Christians in Egypt are a concern.
I think it's too late to give them weapons. That train left the station long ago. I do believe Assad deserves a few cruise missiles up his ass. The retaliation from other countries (Russia, Iran) is a bit worrisome.

houghtam
08-30-2013, 11:33 AM
Big picture, I get your point. Especially when it is suspected that Muslim extremists may be among the ones we arm. However, the attacks on Christians in Egypt are a concern.
I think it's too late to give them weapons. That train left the station long ago. I do believe Assad deserves a few cruise missiles up his ass. The retaliation from other countries (Russia, Iran) is a bit worrisome.

So we fire the missiles.

Then what?

Good plan.

houghtam
08-30-2013, 11:40 AM
Point being, if the goal is to remove (or otherwise punish) Assad, there are other ways to do it. Just ask Israel, they are very good at removing people from power, and have been doing so for generations.

Maybe we can let them do it again.

Or do it ourselves.

If the goal is something else, I'd like to know what it is before we commit anything. Don't we as citizens have that right?

There is not always a need for boots on the ground to affect change. In fact, as the world changes and globalization becomes more entrenched, boots on the ground and conventional warfare makes less and less sense every day.

There is also not always a need for military action to prove we're big and bad. People start coming up missing and the US says "that's a shame, and he was such a nice guy" and shrugs their shoulders, people will fear us, but in a different way.

Do you really think Osama bin Laden was afraid of all our military might? Hell, do you think Hussein was? Yeah, we got him, but at what cost?

ant1999e
08-30-2013, 11:45 AM
So we fire the missiles.

Then what?

Good plan.

I'm not the POTUS, that decision's way above my pay grade. Clinton did it a few times. Degradation will work until the regime is eliminated. Elimination would take boots on the ground and nobody wants that. If the dude's gassing his own people, we should do something about it. Sitting by and just watching is unacceptable.

Rohirrim
08-30-2013, 12:07 PM
Good write-up on Obama's three bad options: http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/30/opinion/miller-obama-least-bad-option/

houghtam
08-30-2013, 12:31 PM
You can believe what you want about Russia's role in this and their intentions, but this guy has it right.

"The West handles the Islamic world the way a monkey handles a grenade," Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin tweeted.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/world/meast/syria-iran-china-russia-supporters/

mhgaffney
08-30-2013, 01:16 PM
Call/Write Speaker Boehner now!

We saw democracy work in the UK. Let us take inspiration from the vote in the House of Commons

Write or call Speaker Boehner now and ask him to reconvene Congress to debate and vote on Obama's plan to attack Syria.

Let the people decide!

http://www.speaker.gov/contact

houghtam
08-30-2013, 01:29 PM
Call/Write Speaker Boehner now!

We saw democracy work in the UK. Let us take inspiration from the vote in the House of Commons

Write or call Speaker Boehner now and ask him to reconvene Congress to debate and vote on Obama's plan to attack Syria.

Let the people decide!

http://www.speaker.gov/contact

Done. If Obama is too cowardly to call them into session, perhaps Borhner will, you know, do his job.

I wouldn't count on it.

mhgaffney
08-30-2013, 02:05 PM
The source of the intercepted cable we have been hearing about and which "proves" Assad did it -- was Israel.

This alone should make us skeptical about this intel.

MHG

Israeli intelligence 'intercepted Syrian regime talk about chemical attack'
Information passed to US by Israeli Defence Forces' 8200 unit, former official tells magazine


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/28/israeli-intelligence-intercepted-syria-chemical-talk

mhgaffney
08-30-2013, 02:13 PM
One would think that by now US officials would be wary of intel from the Mossad. MHG

Israeli intelligence seen as central to US case against Syria

Netanyahu to hold second security cabinet meeting on crisis in two days; top minister says it’s unthinkable for Assad to be allowed to go on gassing childrenBy TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF August 27, 2013,

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-intelligence-seen-as-central-to-us-case-against-syria/

houghtam
08-30-2013, 02:17 PM
Israeli intelligence on an Arab state should be about as trustworthy as Russian intelligence on Chechens.

Keep in mind that sometimes they get it right.

mhgaffney
08-30-2013, 02:44 PM
According to the Jewish paper Tikkun, the Israeli attack on Latakia failed because a spy tipped off the Assad regime -- which moved the Lakhonts missiles before the Israeli strike.

This story reads like the script for a Hollywood thriller.

No question -- if the US attacks, Syria will use its Yakhonts missiles -- probably fire them at Israeli ships. MHG

Assad Tipped Off to Israeli Attack by FSA Mole
by RICHARD SILVERSTEIN on JULY 31, 2013 ·
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/07/31/assad-tipped-off-to-israeli-attack-by-fsa-mole/

Israel discovered the downside of relying on Arab allies in its attacks on its enemies. The NY Times just exposed the failure of Israel’s July 5th attack on a Syrian government weapons arsenal. After the assault on the facility in Latakia, reporters said the target had been Russian-made Yakhonts anti-ship missiles. Most observers assumed the attack had been successful since it had destroyed the warehouse in which the weapons were believed to be stored.

The Times has just revealed via U.S. intelligence sources that government forces moved the targeted missiles before Israel bombed the location. The story says that “some” of the missiles were saved. My hunch is that all of them were saved.

The Times report does not reveal that Assad learned of the attack beforehand and spoiled Israel’s plan. Thanks to my well-placed Israeli source I’ve learned the secret. I was the only media outlet to report earlier that Israel collaborated with the Free Syrian Army in this attack. The latter launched a diversionary assault that was intended to draw government forces away from the depot. This plan also allowed Israel to put out the story that the FSA was responsible for the attack and so divert attention from the IAF as the author of the operation. But in planning it, Israel revealed key details to rebel commanders, one of whom was a spy for the government. This individual revealed the plan and Assad was able to move the Yakhonts from the warehouse.

This represents yet another defeat for Israeli intelligence. It put together an extremely ambitious plan that involved collaboration with forces it had previously not worked closely with in this context: Israeli planes took off from a Turkish air base and the FSA joined in the attack. As any engineer will tell you, the more elements there are to a plan, the more chance that one of them will fail.

This development also reveals how unreliable the rebel forces are. They cannot be trusted to maintain the secrets of their allies. They are riddled with moles and spies. Though I detest Assad, I have to say that he has pulled the rug out from under the IDF and the FSA in this operation.

Israel will of course have other opportunities to attack these missiles. Presumably, however Israel learned they were housed in Latakia, it may get another opportunity to learn their next location. But in the cat and mouse game that is the Syrian civil war, Assad has a victory, Israel a defeat. But if you’re rooting for the Blue and White, don’t despair. It’s a long game. There will be other chances, just as there will be other chances for Hezbollah and Assad to find chinks in Israel’s armor.

El Guapo
08-30-2013, 02:45 PM
U.S.: Al Qaeda-linked Group Behind Benghazi Attack Trains Jihadists for Syrian Rebel Groups (http://freebeacon.com/u-s-al-qaeda-linked-group-behind-benghazi-attack-trains-jihadists-for-syrian-rebel-groups/)

Pony Boy
09-04-2013, 03:48 PM
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up, Obama didn't set the red line ......... the whole world set the red line.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FfDUO_XF8KU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mhgaffney
09-04-2013, 04:33 PM
Last Chance for Peace - Historic Vote in Congress Draws Near

by Mark H Gaffney

The United States is being manipulated into another even bigger Mideast War, and the only thing that can prevent it is an informed citizenry. The upcoming debate in Congress, scheduled to begin on September 9, will tell the tale.

President Obama lied to the nation, last Saturday, when he told us that a US attack on Syria would be “narrow” and “limited”, and would not involve boots on the ground. As I write, US special forces may already be in Syria. According to Israeli on-line intel news Debkafile, several days before the chemical attack in Damascus hundreds of armed rebels crossed over into Syria from a newly established CIA base in Jordan. The rebels were led by US commanders. The Debkafile report was subsequently confirmed by the French paper Le Figaro, which claimed that CIA personnel accompanied the rebels across the border.

Debkafile also reported that Centcom, the US military command for the Middle East, has established a new underground war room near Amman, Jordan, for the purpose of commanding Syrian operations. Recently, General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, visited Amman to inaugurate the new forward command center.

These important stories should have been headline news here in the US. But, thus far, I have seen no mention of them in the fawning US press. Clearly, the American people are being kept in the dark about the true extent of US involvement in the Syrian civil war, which is about to go viral. We are also being jollied about US objectives in the region.

For the rest:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-wag-to-dog-towards-a-major-mideast-war/5348010

orinjkrush
09-04-2013, 04:51 PM
CIA continues its rogue operations...

DenverBrit
09-04-2013, 05:37 PM
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up, Obama didn't set the red live ......... the whole world set the red line.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FfDUO_XF8KU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

For Once, Obama is correct, or did you think it was he who first drew that line??

the Geneva Protocol, which prohibited the use of chemical weapons in warfare, was signed in 1925

http://www.un.org/disarmament/WMD/Chemical/

Arkie
09-04-2013, 08:02 PM
It's naive to believe that the military industrial complex has no influence on Obama. Syria is not an actual threat to the US. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with the amount of lives sacrificed for the war profiteers own gain.

ant1999e
09-04-2013, 08:39 PM
U.S.: Al Qaeda-linked Group Behind Benghazi Attack Trains Jihadists for Syrian Rebel Groups (http://freebeacon.com/u-s-al-qaeda-linked-group-behind-benghazi-attack-trains-jihadists-for-syrian-rebel-groups/)

Seems fitting since we were smuggling weapons to the Syrian rebels through Libya.

ant1999e
09-04-2013, 08:41 PM
It's naive to believe that the military industrial complex has no influence on Obama. Syria is not an actual threat to the US. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with the amount of lives sacrificed for the war profiteers own gain.

It's obvious McCain isn't worried since he was playing Candy Crush during today's hearings.

Rohirrim
09-04-2013, 10:38 PM
Once again, Jon Stewart gets closest to the truth:

<div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><iframe src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/embed/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:428780" width="512" height="288" frameborder="0"></iframe><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-3-2013/uncle-jonny-stew-s-good-time-syria-jamboree">The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></b><br/>Get More: <a href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a>,<a href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></p></div></div>

24champ
09-05-2013, 11:24 AM
If the goal is to destroy or limit Assads ability to use chemical weapons, how can we be sure we got them all? Syrian military has already moved their equipment to civilian buildings. It's a no-win situation for Obama at this point.

I'm personally worried that boots are going to be on the ground at some point in the future when this thing escalates, because nobody is talking about the potential ramifications of a 90 day bombing campaign. We've already seen how Assad reacts when he loses his grip on his power.

Pony Boy
09-05-2013, 01:03 PM
For Once, Obama is correct, or did you think it was he who first drew that line??

Yes the Geneva Protocol prohibits the use of chemical weapons in warfare but what red line did they draw in the sand? What punishment was attached to the protocol?

I believe Obama set a red line that supposedly had serious consequences attached to it, oh wait.... He didn't do it, the world did it.

mosca
09-05-2013, 01:19 PM
Here's some more insight into that evidence that they're insisting on keeping classified. Gotta love it.
----------------------------------------------------

Texas Republican: Evidence that Assad used chemical weapons is 'thin'
By Ian Swanson - 09/02/13 09:45 AM ET

A Texas Republican lawmaker said the evidence he saw Sunday at a classified briefing showing the use of chemical weapons by Syria's government was thin.
"Yes, I saw the classified documents yesterday. They were pretty thin," Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas) said.
He then said a case could be made that Syrian President Bashar Assad's government wasn't the side that used chemical weapons.
"The case can be made that actually Assad was the one that pulled the trigger is suspect," he said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/319879-texas-republican-evidence-that-assad-used-chemical-weapons-is-thin

W*GS
09-05-2013, 01:22 PM
Once again, Jon Stewart gets closest to the truth:

Loved it.

"STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU! STFU!"

DenverBrit
09-05-2013, 01:30 PM
Yes the Geneva Protocol prohibits the use of chemical weapons in warfare but what red line did they draw in the sand? What punishment was attached to the protocol?

I believe Obama set a red line that supposedly had serious consequences attached to it, oh wait.... He didn't do it, the world did it.

You're arguing a different point.

Mine was that technically, Obama was correct, the UN did draw a 'red line'....whatever the **** that means.....in 1925 and others have done so since.

However, going it alone with a vague plan makes little sense. Let the Arab League take care of their neighborhood, if they don't care, not sure why we do.

Pony Boy
09-05-2013, 01:48 PM
You're arguing a different point.

Mine was that technically, Obama was correct, the UN did draw a 'red line'....whatever the **** that means.....in 1925 and others have done so since.

However, going it alone with a vague plan makes little sense. Let the Arab League take care of their neighborhood, if they don't care, not sure why we do.

My old football coach always said "Don't let your mouth write a check that your ass can't cash".

Rohirrim
09-05-2013, 02:56 PM
You're arguing a different point.

Mine was that technically, Obama was correct, the UN did draw a 'red line'....whatever the **** that means.....in 1925 and others have done so since.

However, going it alone with a vague plan makes little sense. Let the Arab League take care of their neighborhood, if they don't care, not sure why we do.

The Arab League cares, just not enough to put their people at risk. They say they'll pay for all operations if we'll go take care of business for them. Instead of the worlds' policemen, we could be become the worlds' mercenaries. So far, this vote looks like it's going down. According to USA Today, 2/3rds opposed. ;D

houghtam
09-05-2013, 03:10 PM
The Arab League cares, just not enough to put their people at risk. They say they'll pay for all operations if we'll go take care of business for them. Instead of the worlds' policemen, we could be become the worlds' mercenaries. So far, this vote looks like it's going down. According to USA Today, 2/3rds opposed. ;D

Why not just let Blackwater and all the other mercenaries work for them?

Sleazebags working with sleazebags to secure a better future.

W*GS
09-05-2013, 04:48 PM
The Arab League cares, just not enough to put their people at risk. They say they'll pay for all operations if we'll go take care of business for them. Instead of the worlds' policemen, we could be become the worlds' mercenaries. So far, this vote looks like it's going down. According to USA Today, 2/3rds opposed. ;D

The Persian Gulf War was a mercenary war, paid for by the Kuwaitis and Saudis (IIRC), so the precedent has been set.

mhgaffney
09-05-2013, 05:17 PM
It's a sad state of affairs indeed when a Russian president is more credible than our own [sic] leaders. MHG

Russia's Putin calls John Kerry a liar on Syria

September 4, 2013

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-putin-calls-john-kerry-liar-syria-195236089.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CepZyhSg2oAvs7QtDMD

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday called U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry a liar, claiming he had denied that al-Qaida was fighting with the Syrian opposition in that country's civil war.

Speaking to his human rights council, Putin recalled watching a congressional debate where Kerry was asked about al-Qaida. Putin said he had denied that it was operating in Syria, even though he was aware of the al-Qaida-linked Jabhat al-Nusra group.

Putin said: "This was very unpleasant and surprising for me. We talk to them (the Americans) and we assume they are decent people, but he is lying and he knows that he is lying. This is sad."

It was unclear exactly what Putin was referencing, but Kerry was asked Tuesday while testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee if the Syrian opposition had become more infiltrated by al-Qaida.

Kerry responded that that was "basically incorrect" and that the opposition has "increasingly become more defined by its moderation."

When asked if a strike would make al-Nusra and other extremist forces stronger, Kerry responded, "No, I don't believe you do (make them stronger). As a matter of fact, I think you actually make the opposition stronger. And the opposition is getting stronger by the day now."

In testimony Wednesday, Kerry said that he didn't agree that "a majority (of the opposition) are al- Qaida and the bad guys." Extremists amount to 15 to 25 percent of the opposition, he said, including al-Nusra and many other groups that are "fighting each other, even now."

Putin also repeated Russia's position that any use of military force against Syria without the approval of the U.N. Security Council would be an act of aggression.

W*GS
09-05-2013, 09:16 PM
**** off, gaffe - Putin-spunk-swallower.

mhgaffney
09-05-2013, 10:53 PM
Perhaps W*gs can explain to us why Israel is granting oil rights to an oil company for land inside of Syria.

Explain that one, W*gs.
MHG

Israel Grants Oil Rights in Syria to Murdoch and Rothschild

by craig on February 21, 2013

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/israel-grants-oil-rights-in-syria-to-murdoch-and-rothschild/

Israel has granted oil exploration rights inside Syria, in the occupied Golan Heights, to Genie Energy. Major shareholders of Genie Energy – which also has interests in shale gas in the United States and shale oil in Israel – include Rupert Murdoch and Lord Jacob Rothschild. This from a 2010 Genie Energy press release:

Claude Pupkin, CEO of Genie Oil and Gas, commented, “Genie’s success will ultimately depend, in part, on access to the expertise of the oil and gas industry and to the financial markets. Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch are extremely well regarded by and connected to leaders in these sectors. Their guidance and participation will prove invaluable.”

“I am grateful to Howard Jonas and IDT for the opportunity to invest in this important initiative,” Lord Rothschild said. “Rupert Murdoch’s extraordinary achievements speak for themselves and we are very pleased he has agreed to be our partner. Genie Energy is making good technological progress to tap the world’s substantial oil shale deposits which could transform the future prospects of Israel, the Middle East and our allies around the world.”

For Israel to seek to exploit mineral reserves in the occupied Golan Heights is plainly illegal in international law. Japan was succesfully sued by Singapore before the International Court of Justice for exploitation of Singapore’s oil resources during the second world war. The argument has been made in international law that an occupying power is entitled to opeate oil wells which were previously functioning and operated by the sovereign power, in whose position the occupying power now stands. But there is absolutely no disagreement in the authorities and case law that the drilling of new wells – let alone fracking – by an occupying power is illegal.

Israel tried to make the same move twenty years ago but was forced to back down after a strong reaction from the Syrian government, which gained diplomatic support from the United States. Israel is now seeking to take advantage of the weakened Syrian state; this move perhaps casts a new light on recent Israeli bombings in Syria.

In a rational world, the involvement of Rothschild and Murdoch in this international criminal activity would show them not to be fit and proper persons to hold major commercial interests elsewhere, and action would be taken. Naturally, nothing of the kind will happen.

Obushma
09-05-2013, 11:06 PM
**** off, gaffe - Putin-spunk-swallower.

BWAHAHAHA

Kerry sheathed his sword in your DC burka boy ass, didn't he Wogs.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-05-2013, 11:09 PM
https://sphotos-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/544878_10151656483565896_1740456238_n.png

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-05-2013, 11:14 PM
^

Maybe the repukes will get a chance to be the party of "no" when it's actually warranted this time.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-05-2013, 11:36 PM
Another reminder, in case anyone needs one, of who our "elected representatives" really work for...

Raytheon Stock Skyrockets With Talk of U.S. Intervention in Syria (http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2013/08/30/raytheon-stock-skyrockets-with-talk-of-u-s-intervention-in-syria/)

Rohirrim
09-05-2013, 11:43 PM
Another reminder, in case anyone needs one, of who our "elected representatives" really work for...

Raytheon Stock Skyrockets With Talk of U.S. Intervention in Syria (http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2013/08/30/raytheon-stock-skyrockets-with-talk-of-u-s-intervention-in-syria/)

And there it is in black and white.

W*GS
09-06-2013, 07:08 AM
Perhaps W*gs can explain to us why Israel is granting oil rights to an oil company for land inside of Syria.

Explain that one, W*gs.

Because Jews are the spawn of Satan and eat Christian babies.

What prize do I win for my spot-on imitation of you, gaffe?

W*GS
09-06-2013, 07:09 AM
BWAHAHAHA

Kerry sheathed his sword in your DC burka boy ass, didn't he Wogs.

You don't even make sense, dickhead.

Rohirrim
09-06-2013, 08:30 AM
Talk about atrocities. It now appears that the North Koreans have starved to death over 20,000 prisoners in their gulag.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/06/20353287-human-rights-group-thousands-of-n-korean-prisoners-disappeared-from-gulag?lite

This is an abomination even worse than Assad's poison attack on civilians. Where's the UN? Where is our missile attack?

Pick Six
09-06-2013, 08:55 AM
Talk about atrocities. It now appears that the North Koreans have starved to death over 20,000 prisoners in their gulag.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/06/20353287-human-rights-group-thousands-of-n-korean-prisoners-disappeared-from-gulag?lite

This is an abomination even worse than Assad's poison attack on civilians. Where's the UN? Where is our missile attack?

Don't worry. Dennis Rodman got this...

Pony Boy
09-06-2013, 10:54 AM
Another reminder, in case anyone needs one, of who our "elected representatives" really work for...

Raytheon Stock Skyrockets With Talk of U.S. Intervention in Syria (http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2013/08/30/raytheon-stock-skyrockets-with-talk-of-u-s-intervention-in-syria/)

Come on L.A. Butt F..er.... you can do better than that, let me help you ..............

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 11:25 AM
Dennis Kucinich: Syria Strike Would Make U.S. 'Al Qaeda's Air Force,' Could Spark 'World War Three'

The Huffington Post | By Nick Wing
Posted: 08/28/2013 11:15 am EDT | Updated: 08/28/2013 1:41 pm EDT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/28/dennis-kucinich-syria_n_3829678.html

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 11:31 AM
Pony Boy,

You are seriously misinformed about the stakes in a US attack on Syria.

Let me help you get up to speed.

Launch of a Yakhonts anti ship missile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AW1XHUcAsQ&feature=player_embedded#t=51

Russian Advanced Weapons for Syria: Unrevealed Secrets of Vladimir Putin’s Recent Visit to London -

http://www.globalresearch.ca/russian-advanced-weapons-for-syria-unrevealed-secrets-of-vladimir-putins-recent-visit-to-london/5339559

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 11:41 AM
Supercavitating Torpedo
A rocket torpedo that swims in an air bubble
By Eric Adams

The Russian ships/submarines in the Mediterranean are equipped with the VA-111 Shkval torpedo -- which has been in development since the 1960s.

These are ship killers. The Shval moves at 230 mph underwater and is unstoppable. One Russian ship armed with this weapon could sink every US naval vessel in the area.

The Ruskis are way ahead of us in some key areas of military weaponry.

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/supercavitating-torpedo

Pony Boy
09-06-2013, 11:57 AM
Pony Boy,

You are seriously misinformed about the stakes in a US attack on Syria.

Let me help you get up to speed.

Launch of a Yakhonts anti ship missile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AW1XHUcAsQ&feature=player_embedded#t=51

Russian Advanced Weapons for Syria: Unrevealed Secrets of Vladimir Putin’s Recent Visit to London -

http://www.globalresearch.ca/russian-advanced-weapons-for-syria-unrevealed-secrets-of-vladimir-putins-recent-visit-to-london/5339559

What's it like to be you, do you ever leave the house?

W*GS
09-06-2013, 12:39 PM
Pony Boy,

You are seriously misinformed about the stakes in a US attack on Syria.

Let me help you get up to speed.

Launch of a Yakhonts anti ship missile:

Yakhonts range: 300 km.
Cruise missile range: 1,300 km-2,500 km.

Get yer facts in order, dopehead gaffe.

Rohirrim
09-06-2013, 01:10 PM
Humans are insane.

Does it ever occur to anybody that what we have here are a bunch of chimps with AK47s, figuratively speaking?

houghtam
09-06-2013, 01:25 PM
Humans are insane.

Does it ever occur to anybody that what we have here are a bunch of chimps with AK47s, figuratively speaking?

Syria's military is nothing to joke about, relative to the rest of the nations in the region. There is a reason for legitimate concern on their part. They do have a rater extensive and advanced air defense system, but that's about it.

Relative to our military however, even with outright backing from Russia, it's not even a contest. The majority of their Air Force consists of MiG 25's which, for frame of reference, were produced toward the end of the Vietnam war, and haven't been in production for about 30 years.

Russia's military has not been able to stand toe-to-toe with the US since 1980 or earlier. Outside of nukes, they haven't been a threat for over a generation.

The only nation in the world that comes even close is China, and even then we way outclass them.

Rohirrim
09-06-2013, 01:33 PM
Syria's military is nothing to joke about, relative to the rest of the nations in the region. There is a reason for legitimate concern on their part. They do have a rater extensive and advanced air defense system, but that's about it.

Relative to our military however, even with outright backing from Russia, it's not even a contest. Russia's military has not been able to stand toe-to-toe with the US since 1980 or earlier. Outside of nukes, they haven't been a threat for over a generation.

The only nation in the world that comes even close is China, and even then we way outclass them.

I'm just talking about humans showing a complete incapacity to deal with any issues without resorting to violence. As much as we tout civilization, we're not very civilized at all.

As far as this issue goes, I can't think of a single reason that Syria is of vital interest to the U.S. The Arab League has plenty of wealth and plenty of firepower. So does Israel. Let them deal with it. This atrocity is the reason the UN was created. If it is too cowardly to deal with it, we should withdraw from the organization, stop supporting it, and tell them to find a new home. I suggest they try Beijing.

THIS IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!

George Washington: "The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to domestic nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities."

John Quincy Adams: "Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will be America’s heart, her benedictions, and her prayers. But she does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."

Washington also said: "Of all enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few."

houghtam
09-06-2013, 03:34 PM
I'm just talking about humans showing a complete incapacity to deal with any issues without resorting to violence.

As a truly great man once said, we're barely out of the woods as a species.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0guEKMVYmZ8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 04:55 PM
Yakhonts range: 300 km.
Cruise missile range: 1,300 km-2,500 km.

Get yer facts in order, dopehead gaffe.

You really are a moron. The Yahkonts are a deterrent to Israel -- which is why Israel tried to take them out -- and failed -- back in June.

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 05:02 PM
Syria's military is nothing to joke about, relative to the rest of the nations in the region. There is a reason for legitimate concern on their part. They do have a rater extensive and advanced air defense system, but that's about it.

Relative to our military however, even with outright backing from Russia, it's not even a contest. The majority of their Air Force consists of MiG 25's which, for frame of reference, were produced toward the end of the Vietnam war, and haven't been in production for about 30 years.

Russia's military has not been able to stand toe-to-toe with the US since 1980 or earlier. Outside of nukes, they haven't been a threat for over a generation.

The only nation in the world that comes even close is China, and even then we way outclass them.

This is why a US strike against Syria is so dangerous.

Syria is an ancient country. I am told, the only one in the region that was never conquered by the Assyrians -- and other ancient empires. The Syrians have resisted foreign domination for millennia.

They will never give up.

Apparently Israel will be picking the targets for the US to hit.

The Syrians have the world's largest stock of bio weapons and chemical weapons. God knows what else.

If we start degrading their air defenses and weaken them -- they may feel they are losing their deterrent with Israel. In which case -- it's use it or lose it.

Backed to the wall -- they will defend themselves with everything they have. Why is no one talking about this? It could get very ugly.

Prince Bander, the prince of darkness, is going around telling everyone that Syria won't do anything. They will sit there and take it.

This is just plain craziness. Bander is a war criminal. He is also implicated in 9/11.

MHG

elsid13
09-06-2013, 05:14 PM
This is why a US strike against Syria is so dangerous.

Syria is an ancient country. I am told, the only one in the region that was never conquered by the Assyrians -- and other ancient empires. The Syrians have resisted foreign domination for millennia.

They will never give up.

Apparently Israel will be picking the targets for the US to hit.

The Syrians have the world's largest stock of bio weapons and chemical weapons. God knows what else.

If we start degrading their air defenses and weaken them -- they may feel they are losing their deterrent with Israel. In which case -- it's use it or lose it.

Backed to the wall -- they will defend themselves with everything they have. Why is no one talking about this? It could get very ugly.

Prince Bander, the prince of darkness, is going around telling everyone that Syria won't do anything. They will sit there and take it.

This is just plain craziness. Bander is a war criminal. He is also implicated in 9/11.

MHG

Syrian doesn't have largest source of Bio/Chem Weapons in the world, that "honor" belongs to Russia and NK.

And Syria has been conquered and controlled by Romans, Persians, Mongols, Turks, French and number of other tribes and nation states. Get your history right.

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 05:27 PM
A friend of mine is part Syrian. He also has advanced degrees -- and knows of what he speaks. He tells me the only people on the planet as tough as Syrians are the Russians. Even the Sicilian mafia know not to f**k with Syrians.

I am just telling you what I was told. MHG

mhgaffney
09-06-2013, 05:30 PM
Looks like Obama ran into a buzz saw in Petersburg. MHG

World leaders pressure Obama over Syria at G20 summit

By Timothy Heritage | Reuters – Thu, 5 Sep, 2013


ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama faced growing pressure from Russia's Vladimir Putin and other world leaders on Thursday to decide against launching military strikes in Syria, which many of them fear would hurt the global economy and push up oil prices.

At a summit of the Group of 20 (G20) developed and developing economies in St. Petersburg, Putin greeted Obama with a thin smile and a businesslike handshake, a clear sign of the strains between them over how to respond to a chemical weapons attack in Syria.

Obama also wore a stiff smile before talks began over dinner on the world economy and then on Syria, and there was none of the arm clutching or hugs between the two presidents that is typical of such occasions.

The rift over Syria overshadowed the discussions on how to revive growth but not before splits emerged within the group over a U.S. plan to wind down an economic stimulus program. The G20 accounts for two thirds of the world's population and 90 percent of its output.

The first round at the summit went to Putin, as China, the European Union, the BRICS emerging economies and a letter from Pope Francis all warned of the dangers of military intervention in Syria without the approval of the U.N. Security Council.

"Military action would have a negative impact on the global economy, especially on the oil price - it will cause a hike in the oil price," Chinese Vice Finance Minister Zhu Guangyao said.

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon later told the leaders over the dinner in a tsarist-era seafront palace that any military action must have the Security Council's backing.

"Let us remember: every day that we lose is a day when scores of innocent civilians die," his office quoted him as saying. "There is no military solution."

jhat01
09-06-2013, 05:31 PM
A friend of mine is part Syrian. He also has advanced degrees -- and knows of what he speaks. He tells me the only people on the planet as tough as Syrians are the Russians. Even the Sicilian mafia know not to **** with Syrians.

I am just telling you what I was told. MHG

I'll take Brian Dennehy over any Syrian ROFL!

Arkie
09-06-2013, 05:52 PM
I'm just talking about humans showing a complete incapacity to deal with any issues without resorting to violence. As much as we tout civilization, we're not very civilized at all.


Jacque Fresco said it best. “We talk about civilization as though it’s a static state. There are no civilized people yet, it’s a process that’s constantly going on… As long as you have war, police, prisons, crime, you are in the early stages of civilization.”

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-06-2013, 05:52 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1005816_641047225928226_1282889047_n.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-06-2013, 05:56 PM
https://sphotos-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1238137_577597782295711_1767498137_n.png

houghtam
09-06-2013, 06:12 PM
Gaff, do you know why biological weapons like sarin gas are outlawed? It's not because the nations of the world are some humanitarian monolith. It's because the weapons are known not to be terribly effective in modern warfare.

The fact that Syria has tons of them is not nearly as concerning as their air defense, etc.

W*GS
09-06-2013, 06:13 PM
Herr gaffe simply wants Jews and Israel destroyed, and he's pissed that Hitler didn't finish the job.

DenverBrit
09-06-2013, 06:15 PM
A friend of mine is part Syrian. He also has advanced degrees -- and knows of what he speaks. He tells me the only people on the planet as tough as Syrians are the Russians. Even the Sicilian mafia know not to **** with Syrians.

I am just telling you what I was told. MHG

Try reading or researching about the topics you post instead of using anecdotal hearsay that is demonstrably untrue.

Seriously, that sounds like schoolyard bragging.

Just a suggestion. :oyvey:

W*GS
09-06-2013, 06:18 PM
Try reading or researching about the topics you post instead of using anecdotal hearsay that is demonstrably untrue.

If he did, he'd have to STFU.

DenverBrit
09-06-2013, 06:24 PM
If he did, he'd have to STFU.

That will happen....

http://www.whenpigsflyetc.com/images/whenpigsfly.jpg

ant1999e
09-06-2013, 06:30 PM
Gaff, do you know why biological weapons like sarin gas are outlawed? It's not because the nations of the world are some humanitarian monolith. It's because the weapons are known not to be terribly effective in modern warfare.

The fact that Syria has tons of them is not nearly as concerning as their air defense, etc.

They're outlawed because they cause suffering.

houghtam
09-06-2013, 06:35 PM
They're outlawed because they cause suffering.

So does white phosphorous. It's still legal because its an effective weapon.

elsid13
09-06-2013, 07:02 PM
So does white phosphorous. It's still legal because its an effective weapon.

While you are correct Chem/Bio Weapon are not very effective against modern militaries, they banned more for suffering they caused non-combatants vs ineffectiveness. IF that was the standard effectiveness of modern weapon system then world would not agreed to ban cluster munitions.

Rohirrim
09-06-2013, 09:48 PM
Try reading or researching about the topics you post instead of using anecdotal hearsay that is demonstrably untrue.

Seriously, that sounds like schoolyard bragging.

Just a suggestion. :oyvey:

I've always thought, you know, somewhere on Earth is the baddest mofo on the entire planet. Some guy is actually the baddest dude. I'm guessing he's in some prison somewhere, or on some commando unit. When you break down what it is to be the baddest of all the badasses, what it really means is something along the lines of the Keyser Soze Effect - that guy is just the most psychopathic killer on the planet who would kill his entire family just to prove what a baddass he is. And we admire that. Paranoid psychopathy. Ha!

Rohirrim
09-06-2013, 09:49 PM
They're outlawed because they cause suffering.

So do bullets. So does napalm. So do arrows. So do knives.

houghtam
09-06-2013, 10:17 PM
I've always thought, you know, somewhere on Earth is the baddest mofo on the entire planet. Some guy is actually the baddest dude. I'm guessing he's in some prison somewhere, or on some commando unit. When you break down what it is to be the baddest of all the badasses, what it really means is something along the lines of the Keyser Soze Effect - that guy is just the most psychopathic killer on the planet who would kill his entire family just to prove what a baddass he is. And we admire that. Paranoid psychopathy. Ha!

Whoever that guy is, he's probably a Syrian. Or a Russian.

ant1999e
09-06-2013, 10:29 PM
Whoever that guy is, he's probably a Syrian. Or a Russian.

I know a Syrian/Russian guy with an advanced degree. He's a bad mutha.

Rohirrim
09-06-2013, 10:40 PM
Whoever that guy is, he's probably a Syrian. Or a Russian.

It was Kevin Spacey.

houghtam
09-06-2013, 11:15 PM
It was Kevin Spacey.

Unusual Suspects Spacey? Or House of Cards Spacey?

Six of one, I suppose.

Arkie
09-07-2013, 07:54 AM
It was Kevin Spacey.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/85c2343167c2cbca0cee3f4a070da6c8/tumblr_mkzle6TWqQ1sn8ziso1_500.gif

DenverBrit
09-07-2013, 09:08 AM
I've always thought, you know, somewhere on Earth is the baddest mofo on the entire planet. Some guy is actually the baddest dude. I'm guessing he's in some prison somewhere, or on some commando unit. When you break down what it is to be the baddest of all the badasses, what it really means is something along the lines of the Keyser Soze Effect - that guy is just the most psychopathic killer on the planet who would kill his entire family just to prove what a baddass he is. And we admire that. Paranoid psychopathy. Ha!

Good guess. Oddly enough, the Syrians didn't crack the top 10. :spit:

Top 10 Badasses of the World’s Special Forces

http://listverse.com/2010/01/11/top-10-badasses-of-the-worlds-special-forces/

DenverBrit
09-07-2013, 09:14 AM
It was Kevin Spacey.

Gaffney apparently never met these..........'ladies' ;D

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bIHF4rVTK4E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mhgaffney
09-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Gaff, do you know why biological weapons like sarin gas are outlawed? It's not because the nations of the world are some humanitarian monolith. It's because the weapons are known not to be terribly effective in modern warfare.

The fact that Syria has tons of them is not nearly as concerning as their air defense, etc.

Not true. The use of mustard gas in WW I was horrific -- and shocked the world.

With US help, Saddam used chemical weapons against Iran in the 1980s. The results were also horrific. The US press helped to cover up the facts - because of US complicity. The average American probably doesn't even know it happened.

Israel used white phosphorus (with US approval) against the Palestinians in 2006 - -and the US used white phosphorus against Iraqis in Fallujah. These are chemical weapons.

The US and Israel have both used depleted uranium weapons -- which are terrible and comparable to chemical weapons.

And don't forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

This explains the international contempt for Kerry's self righteous grandstanding over Syria. It's total hypocrisy.
MHG

mhgaffney
09-07-2013, 01:23 PM
This letter to Obama from a dozen former members of the US intelligence community should be headline news -- but are any networks covering it? Probably not.
MHG

Obama Warned on Syrian Intel

September 6, 2013

Exclusive: Despite the Obama administration’s supposedly “high confidence” regarding Syrian government guilt over the Aug. 21 chemical attack near Damascus, a dozen former U.S. military and intelligence officials are telling President Obama that they are picking up information that undercuts the Official Story.

MEMORANDUM FOR: The President

FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

SUBJECT: Is Syria a Trap?

Precedence: IMMEDIATE

We regret to inform you that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as “plausible denial.”

We have been down this road before – with President George W. Bush, to whom we addressed our first VIPS memorandumimmediately after Colin Powell’s Feb. 5, 2003 U.N. speech, in which he peddled fraudulent “intelligence” to support attacking Iraq. Then, also, we chose to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was being misled – or, at the least, very poorly advised.

The fraudulent nature of Powell’s speech was a no-brainer. And so, that very afternoon we strongly urged your predecessor to “widen the discussion beyond … the circle of those advisers clearly bent on a war for which we see no compelling reason and from which we believe the unintended consequences are likely to be catastrophic.” We offer you the same advice today.

Our sources confirm that a chemical incident of some sort did cause fatalities and injuries on August 21 in a suburb of Damascus. They insist, however, that the incident was not the result of an attack by the Syrian Army using military-grade chemical weapons from its arsenal. That is the most salient fact, according to CIA officers working on the Syria issue. They tell us that CIA Director John Brennan is perpetrating a pre-Iraq-War-type fraud on members of Congress, the media, the public – and perhaps even you.

We have observed John Brennan closely over recent years and, sadly, we find what our former colleagues are now telling us easy to believe. Sadder still, this goes in spades for those of us who have worked with him personally; we give him zero credence. And that goes, as well, for his titular boss, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who has admitted he gave “clearly erroneous” sworn testimony to Congress denying NSA eavesdropping on Americans.

for the rest
http://consortiumnews.com/2013/09/06/obama-warned-on-syrian-intel/

houghtam
09-07-2013, 01:37 PM
Not true. The use of mustard gas in WW I was horrific -- and shocked the world.

With US help, Saddam used chemical weapons against Iran in the 1980s. The results were also horrific. The US press helped to cover up the facts - because of US complicity. The average American probably doesn't even know it happened.

Israel used white phosphorus (with US approval) against the Palestinians in 2006 - -and the US used white phosphorus against Iraqis in Fallujah. These are chemical weapons.

The US and Israel have both used depleted uranium weapons -- which are terrible and comparable to chemical weapons.

And don't forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

This explains the international contempt for Kerry's self righteous grandstanding over Syria. It's total hypocrisy.
MHG

World War I is not "modern warfare" by any stretch.

The use of chemical weapons against Iranian troops was not terribly effective, and its use against troops in general is not, which is why you generally only see it used against civilians, i.e. targets that are not moving and cannot defend themselves. Against a military force, it's just not as effective.

White phosphorous and depleted uranium are not considered chemical weapons...why? BECAUSE THEY ARE USEFUL IN COMBAT.

That is my point entirely. It doesn't mean I agree with it, nor does it mean I support their use.

All this means is that in the grand scheme of things, your assessment of the threat Syria poses to our military is way, way off.

Does that mean I want to see us involved in Syria? Not at all. But you do need to learn a little more about military tactics and technology before spouting off about it. You could start with a lesson on World War I, and then move up to the effective range of the Israeli Air Force (which I schooled you in last year), then to the effective range of Syrian/Russian missiles.

All this stuff is available on the internet these days.

W*GS
09-07-2013, 01:47 PM
The great thing about gaffe is that he proves his ignorance on all kinds of subjects - military stuff, metallurgy, science, physics, chemistry, astronomy, politics, and many more - every time he posts.

Rohirrim
09-07-2013, 01:52 PM
No. The U.S. has nothing to fear about a Syrian military response. It's a joke to consider it. Here's what will happen. Against the will of the American people and Congress, Obama will strike a bunch of sites in Syria, probably with Tomahawks or bombs (or both). This will have little effect on the final outcome in Syria. We only need to look at Libya and Egypt to see how out-of-control these kinds of conflicts are. But Hezbollah will respond. A busload of American tourists in, who knows where, Bali? Thailand? Spain? will be blown to ****. Obama will turn Americans into targets over a conflict that has absolutely nothing to do with any American vital interest.

W*GS
09-07-2013, 02:38 PM
No. The U.S. has nothing to fear about a Syrian military response. It's a joke to consider it. Here's what will happen. Against the will of the American people and Congress, Obama will strike a bunch of sites in Syria, probably with Tomahawks or bombs (or both). This will have little effect on the final outcome in Syria. We only need to look at Libya and Egypt to see how out-of-control these kinds of conflicts are. But Hezbollah will respond. A busload of American tourists in, who knows where, Bali? Thailand? Spain? will be blown to ****. Obama will turn Americans into targets over a conflict that has absolutely nothing to do with any American vital interest.

I concur. A hit out of the park.

houghtam
09-07-2013, 02:41 PM
I concur. A hit out of the park.

+2

Our foreign policy is a joke.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-07-2013, 02:52 PM
You guys are sooooooooooooooooooooo wrong about Big "o" you owe the rest of us money!

slick7
09-07-2013, 03:01 PM
Guys, if the US sits back and does nothing we will be seen as weak.

/sarcasm

mhgaffney
09-07-2013, 03:22 PM
No. The U.S. has nothing to fear about a Syrian military response. It's a joke to consider it. Here's what will happen. Against the will of the American people and Congress, Obama will strike a bunch of sites in Syria, probably with Tomahawks or bombs (or both). This will have little effect on the final outcome in Syria. We only need to look at Libya and Egypt to see how out-of-control these kinds of conflicts are. But Hezbollah will respond. A busload of American tourists in, who knows where, Bali? Thailand? Spain? will be blown to ****. Obama will turn Americans into targets over a conflict that has absolutely nothing to do with any American vital interest.

You are par for the course around here.

No one is claiming that Syria is a security threat to the US except Obama and Kerry. Certainly not me.

But this does not mean that a US strike is not incredibly stupid and extremely dangerous. It is.

It certainly does appear that Bibi Netanyahu is getting his wish. The US intel was actually supplied by the Mossad - -and is probably fraudulent.

A US strike will weaken Syria -- but Syria will respond. They have to. If Israel and Lebanon become involved -- it can quickly spread.

If Iran becomes involved, all bets are off. The resulting fire storm can quickly escalate to WW III.

As for the alleged ineffectiveness of chemical weapons -- Sarin kills 90% of the people who come in contact.

The complacency around here is nauseating.

MHG

W*GS
09-07-2013, 03:38 PM
The resulting fire storm can quickly escalate to WW III.

That gives you a chub.

houghtam
09-07-2013, 03:50 PM
As for the alleged ineffectiveness of chemical weapons -- Sarin kills 90% of the people who come in contact.

The complacency around here is nauseating.

MHG

If it were effective in combat, the US would never have agreed to a ban. Unless you think that somehow the US has some sort of humanitarian compass when it comes to winning wars. That's a laugh and a half right there.

Let's look at another example.

Landmines!

They're banned by every nearly every western nation except the United States. Why? Because there are over a million landmines lining the DMZ between North and South Korea!

Let's look at another example.

Shotguns!

The Germans wanted to have them included in the Hague Convention because they caused unnecessarily cruel suffering. Never stuck. Why? Because they are quite effective in trench warfare (which is why they were also used in the Korean War and in the tunnels of Vietnam).

Rohirrim
09-07-2013, 03:52 PM
You are par for the course around here.

No one is claiming that Syria is a security threat to the US except Obama and Kerry. Certainly not me.

But this does not mean that a US strike is not incredibly stupid and extremely dangerous. It is.

It certainly does appear that Bibi Netanyahu is getting his wish. The US intel was actually supplied by the Mossad - -and is probably fraudulent.

A US strike will weaken Syria -- but Syria will respond. They have to. If Israel and Lebanon become involved -- it can quickly spread.

If Iran becomes involved, all bets are off. The resulting fire storm can quickly escalate to WW III.

As for the alleged ineffectiveness of chemical weapons -- Sarin kills 90% of the people who come in contact.

The complacency around here is nauseating.

MHG

I know WWIII is your fantasy, but like most of your fantasies, it makes about as much sense as the average comic book.

Broncos_OTM
09-07-2013, 11:46 PM
And there it is in black and white.that was 16 yes from republicans and 9 yees from democrats.not to mention the guy who's is clanging around hissword is tthe president... who is a democrat.

Broncos_OTM
09-08-2013, 12:07 AM
If he did, he'd have to STFU.you sir are a troll. Instead of any counter argument , you bring insults. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

barryr
09-08-2013, 07:50 AM
So when Syria's government was torturing and shooting and killing for like 2 years, there was little outcry, but oh no, maybe they used chemical weapons to kill, so now the U.S. needs to act? So if they had just kept mowing down people with rifles we could continue to pretend nothing was happening? This is what happens when you have a president with no experience with military or with dealing with foreign countries, other than making speeches for how sorry he was for actions done before most were even alive. Again, the world laughs at this president and his bumbling admin.

W*GS
09-08-2013, 08:33 AM
you sir are a troll. Instead of any counter argument , you bring insults. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Anyone who takes gaffe seriously needs a lobotomy.

mhgaffney
09-08-2013, 08:38 AM
I know WWIII is your fantasy, but like most of your fantasies, it makes about as much sense as the average comic book.

Fantasy? Tell that to the survivors at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

mhgaffney
09-08-2013, 08:41 AM
It's looking more and more like the intercepted cable was passed to the US by Israel -- i.e., Mossad. The fact the intelligence assessment claims this as US intel calls into question the integrity of the entire assessment.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-intelligence-was-twisted-to-support-an-attack-on-syria/5348542

W*GS
09-08-2013, 08:57 AM
Fantasy? Tell that to the survivors at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Why not the survivors of Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg...?

Rohirrim
09-08-2013, 09:28 AM
that was 16 yes from republicans and 9 yees from democrats.not to mention the guy who's is clanging around hissword is tthe president... who is a democrat.

Since I'm not a dem, why would I care?

Rohirrim
09-08-2013, 09:32 AM
So when Syria's government was torturing and shooting and killing for like 2 years, there was little outcry, but oh no, maybe they used chemical weapons to kill, so now the U.S. needs to act? So if they had just kept mowing down people with rifles we could continue to pretend nothing was happening? This is what happens when you have a president with no experience with military or with dealing with foreign countries, other than making speeches for how sorry he was for actions done before most were even alive. Again, the world laughs at this president and his bumbling admin.

No less than they laughed at Bush for his. Of course, throw in Bush's drunken performance at the Olympics and the embarrassment quotient goes way up. Or how about his Merkel massage moment? Obama is not a great president by any means, but at least he's managed to stay sober. Ha!

Rohirrim
09-08-2013, 09:33 AM
Fantasy? Tell that to the survivors at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Like I said, comic books.

You want to know who the Japanese people should blame for Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The emperor of Japan who refused to surrender.

DenverBrit
09-08-2013, 12:29 PM
Like I said, comic books.

You want to know who the Japanese people should blame for Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The emperor of Japan who refused to surrender.

You're going to confuse and mystify Gaffney by quoting historical facts.

Rohirrim
09-08-2013, 12:38 PM
You're going to confuse and mystify Gaffney by quoting historical facts.

Yep. Not only did he refuse to surrender, he was having children trained as suicide bombers.

W*GS
09-08-2013, 12:41 PM
Japan's Longest Day (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062041/) (aka "Nihon no ichiban nagai hi"), 1967.

Good movie.

Rohirrim
09-08-2013, 03:01 PM
Japan's Longest Day (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062041/) (aka "Nihon no ichiban nagai hi"), 1967.

Good movie.

Good mythology. ;D

mhgaffney
09-08-2013, 08:50 PM
Like I said, comic books.

You want to know who the Japanese people should blame for Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The emperor of Japan who refused to surrender.

Total bull****. Japan was beaten -- and would have surrendered anyway. This has been well documented.

As Peter Dale Scott has written, "western civilization is a conspiracy of organized denial."

I suggest you check out Oliver Stone's new book THE UNTOLD HISTORY OF THE US

http://www.amazon.com/Untold-History-United-States/dp/1451613512/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378694982&sr=1-1&keywords=oliver+stone+untold+history+of+the+united +states

Rohirrim
09-08-2013, 09:56 PM
Total bull****. Japan was beaten -- and would have surrendered anyway. This has been well documented.

As Peter Dale Scott has written, "western civilization is a conspiracy of organized denial."

I suggest you check out Oliver Stone's new book THE UNTOLD HISTORY OF THE US

http://www.amazon.com/Untold-History-United-States/dp/1451613512/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378694982&sr=1-1&keywords=oliver+stone+untold+history+of+the+united +states

Horse****. If the U.S. wouldn't have accepted the continuation of the emperor in his position as titular ruler of Japan, the Japanese would have fought to the last child. They admitted as much. I can only imagine your "documentation" for this would have been the equal to all the other documentation you've presented on other topics. As far as Oliver Stone goes, I really think he is mad.

DenverBrit
09-08-2013, 10:44 PM
Total bull****. Japan was beaten -- and would have surrendered anyway. This has been well documented.

As Peter Dale Scott has written, "western civilization is a conspiracy of organized denial."

I suggest you check out Oliver Stone's new book THE UNTOLD HISTORY OF THE US

http://www.amazon.com/Untold-History-United-States/dp/1451613512/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378694982&sr=1-1&keywords=oliver+stone+untold+history+of+the+united +states

As usual, you're clueless about facts, history and reality. The Japanese refused to surrender before the bombs were used.....and even after Hiroshima,they refused.

The Japanese had proven themselves capable of mass murder, genocide and just about every human rights crime during WW2, and during their invasion and occupation of China.

The Allies were not going to waste 100's of thousands of lives when alternatives were available.

As usual, you side with evil to satisfy to your hatred of the US.

One of these days, you'll wake your lazy ass up and research some of the 'stupid' you inflict upon us daily......ok, probably not, bull**** is your stock in trade.

When Japan refused to accept the terms on July 29, Truman authorized the use of the atomic bomb. On Aug. 6, the United States dropped an atomic bomb on the city of Hiroshima, destroying over 60 percent of the developed city and killing between 70,000 and 80,000.

Still, Japan refused to accept the terms of the Potsdam Declaration. On the morning of Aug. 9, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan, and then the United States dropped the bomb on Nagasaki.

After the bombing, Japan accepted the Potsdam terms and unconditionally surrendered to the United States on Aug. 14, a day known as Victory in Japan, or V-J, Day. It marked the end of World War II.


http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/aug-9-1945-u-s-drops-atomic-bomb-on-nagasaki-japan/?_r=0

mhgaffney
09-09-2013, 12:03 PM
Kerry fails to mention that Syria chemical weapons are a deterrent to Israel's nuclear arsenal - -which does not exist, remember?
MHG

John Kerry Gives Syria Week to Hand over Chemical Weapons or Face Attack

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36175.htm

mhgaffney
09-09-2013, 12:05 PM
As usual, you're clueless about facts, history and reality. The Japanese refused to surrender before the bombs were used.....and even after Hiroshima,they refused.

The Japanese had proven themselves capable of mass murder, genocide and just about every human rights crime during WW2, and during their invasion and occupation of China.

The Allies were not going to waste 100's of thousands of lives when alternatives were available.

As usual, you side with evil to satisfy to your hatred of the US.

One of these days, you'll wake your lazy ass up and research some of the 'stupid' you inflict upon us daily......ok, probably not, bull**** is your stock in trade.



http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/aug-9-1945-u-s-drops-atomic-bomb-on-nagasaki-japan/?_r=0

You gave the nerve to cite the NY Times on this? What a joke. The Time sis part of the problem, here.

Check out the scholarly sources in Stone's book. Oh -- I forgot, you don't read books. MHG

mhgaffney
09-09-2013, 12:12 PM
Why The US, UK, EU & Israel Want To Destroy Syria

By Adrian Salbuchi

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36173.htm

DenverBrit
09-09-2013, 12:53 PM
You gave the nerve to cite the NY Times on this? What a joke. The Time sis part of the problem, here.

Check out the scholarly sources in Stone's book. Oh -- I forgot, you don't read books. MHG

LOL

Says the clown who quotes the well known wacko, Oliver Stone.

You can't handle anything more 'scholarly' so I kept it simple for you.

Go ahead and dispute the timeline with historical facts, not the usual bull**** you cut and paste.

Here's the BBC summary of events. Once again, your assertion that the Japanese were ready to surrender before is nonsense. There are plenty of accurate records of events


On 6 August 1945, the United States dropped the first ever atomic weapon on the Japanese city of Hiroshima. Japanese officials, despite the terrible consequences of the attack, convened to debate their next move.

The United States waited three days before dropping a second bomb on Nagasaki. The Japanese then began talks directly with the United States and, although their government's decision was not unilateral, Japan had little choice but to surrender. The Soviet declaration of war on Japan (on 8 August 1945) and the nuclear attacks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima forced Japan to face the facts, and the Empire disintegrated.

And from Princeton's Edu site, including Wiki entries.

The Potsdam Declaration or the Proclamation Defining Terms for Japanese Surrender is a statement calling for the Surrender of Japan in World War II. On July 26, 1945, United States President Harry S. Truman, United Kingdom Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and Chairman of the Nationalist Government of China Chiang Kai-shek issued the document, which outlines the terms of surrender for the Empire of Japan as agreed upon at the Potsdam Conference. This ultimatum stated that, if Japan did not surrender, it would face "prompt and utter destruction".

Japan's initial rejection of the ultimatum led directly to Truman's decision to drop atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6 and August 9. Whether the ultimatum was intended to be acceptable without recourse to use nuclear weapons has been subject to considerable debate.

The declaration was one of Churchill's final official acts as Prime Minister before he left office the following day in favour of Clement Attlee.

DenverBrit
09-09-2013, 12:54 PM
You gave the nerve to cite the NY Times on this? What a joke. The Time sis part of the problem, here.

Check out the scholarly sources in Stone's book. Oh -- I forgot, you don't read books. MHG

You're an idiot who can't tolerate anyone disputing your lies and conspiracy nonsense.

Meds, Gaffney, meds!!

Rohirrim
09-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Why The US, UK, EU & Israel Want To Destroy Syria

By Adrian Salbuchi

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36173.htm

The Bilderburgs and the Rothchilds? Again? The Zionist conpiracy?

As far as Syria's vast oil reserves go, check it out here:
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=sy&v=88

They can be found right below Thailand.

Rohirrim
09-09-2013, 03:28 PM
So who exactly would the United States be helping if it bombed Syria? We don’t really know. Neither do many Syrians.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/09/20405910-first-person-the-dark-knights-of-the-syrian-opposition?lite

alkemical
09-09-2013, 04:43 PM
So who exactly would the United States be helping if it bombed Syria? We don’t really know. Neither do many Syrians.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/09/20405910-first-person-the-dark-knights-of-the-syrian-opposition?lite

The USA would be helping the opposition.

mhgaffney
09-09-2013, 05:13 PM
The Bilderburgs and the Rothchilds? Again? The Zionist conpiracy?

As far as Syria's vast oil reserves go, check it out here:
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=sy&v=88

They can be found right below Thailand.

Syria has negligible oil of its own. But Syria sits a very important location from the standpoint of getting oil/gas from the Gulf to Europe.

Recently, Assad signed a contract with Iran and Iraq to build a pipeline from Iran to the Syrian coast -- where ships will thence transport the gas to Europe.Iran has the largest gas field on the planet.

Qatar wanted the pipeline to start at its own fields -- but Assad inked the deal with Iran instead. This is why Qatar and S Arabia want to overthrow the Syrian regime.

Its about oil/gas,

MHG

mhgaffney
09-09-2013, 05:31 PM
Obama is facing stiff opinion polls this week.

The latest CNN poll showed 59% of Americans opposed to a strike on Syria.

70% oppose a strike if Congress rejects the war resolution.

But even if it passes -- 55% of Americans oppose a strike.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/09/6a.poll.syria.pdf

Rohirrim
09-09-2013, 05:37 PM
The USA would be helping the opposition.

The article points out who composes that opposition.

ant1999e
09-10-2013, 10:25 AM
The article points out who composes that opposition.

So why would the President want to help them?

Rigs11
09-10-2013, 10:48 AM
http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/O/1/6/Syria-Options.jpg

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-10-2013, 11:14 AM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/z-sdO6pwVHQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mhgaffney
09-10-2013, 12:18 PM
AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE QUOTIENT

by mhgaffney

When is a recovery not a recovery?
Ans: When it’s a balloon.

When is a Bradley not a Bradley?
Ans: When it’s a Chelsea.

When is a correction not a correction?
Ans: When it’s a crash.

When is a Syrian rebel not a rebel?
Ans: When its Al Qaeda.

When is a tomato not a tomato?
Ans: When it’s a Monsanto.

When is a dollar not a dollar?
Wrong question: When was a dollar a dollar?

Rohirrim
09-10-2013, 12:19 PM
So why would the President want to help them?

Don't have a clue. I figure if two of your worst enemies are trying to kill each other, you sell them ammo. ;D

Rigs11
09-10-2013, 01:06 PM
McConell couldn't wait to utter his favorite word:NO:clown:

alkemical
09-10-2013, 02:31 PM
The article points out who composes that opposition.

The other day, I was watching NBC news and they were showing Kerry and some gentleman representing the military (i forget if it was sec of defense, etc) -

and the message was "We are supporting the opposition"

Congressman: "Which is...?"

"The opposition"

Congressman: "Is the opposition favorable to US?"

"Yes, they are the opposition"



I think our vested interest might be to go and find weapons that were sold to syria through benghazi.

At least that's the POV i come to the conclusion when following the money and the repeated behaviour of the CIA arming dictators and supplying them with intel and resources.

ant1999e
09-10-2013, 02:37 PM
The other day, I was watching NBC news and they were showing Kerry and some gentleman representing the military (i forget if it was sec of defense, etc) -

and the message was "We are supporting the opposition"

Congressman: "Which is...?"

"The opposition"

Congressman: "Is the opposition favorable to US?"

"Yes, they are the opposition"



I think our vested interest might be to go and find weapons that were sold to syria through benghazi.

At least that's the POV i come to the conclusion when following the money and the repeated behaviour of the CIA arming dictators and supplying them with intel and resources.

I believe we were dealing guns to Syria in Bengazi. That's what I think it was all about. I think it was to the rebels though.

mhgaffney
09-11-2013, 03:48 PM
Lies and Omissions by Obama last night

1. Obama: Assad used chemical weapons -- unproven and probably not true. The available evidence suggests the opposition staged a false flag attack -- to set up Assad for western intervention.

2. Obama: Assad's military prepared for a chemical attack -- based on what evidence? A cable passed to the US from.....Israel, Assad's enemy. Israel has bombed Syria repeatedly in recent months and clearly wants a failed state next door. To pass off this garbage intelligence as evidence calls into question the entire case for a military strike.

3. Obama: I will not put boots on the ground. False. The CIA is already reportedly inside Syria.

4. Obama: We have samples of hair and blood showing that Sarin gas was used. Again, this is garbage evidence. The samples came from the opposition, hence are unreliable. There is no chain of custody of these samples, nothing to link them to the sites of the attack.

Furthermore, the facts as known - i.e., the fatalities, do not support the case that Sarin was used. If Sarin had been used there would have been 90% fatalities -- not 10% as appears to be the case. No, this was some other chemical agent -- not Sarin.

5. Obama: we must stand by our principles. What a bunch of hypocritical BS -- given that the US used chemical agents to destroy Vietnam, and supplied chemical agents to Saddam Hussein in the 1980s and even the targeting intel so that Saddam could maximize his chemical attacks against Iran. Meanwhile, the US press obfuscated this use to confuse the American people - so the truth would not be known, including the US role.

Then, after we bombed Iraq back into the stone age - -we used white phosphorus at Fallujah -- not to mention depleted uranium bombs.

6. Obama failed to mention that Israel has also refused to sign the chemical weapons ban. Will we pressure Israel to sign? Don't hold your breath.

This list makes no claim to be comprehensive...MHG

alkemical
09-11-2013, 04:39 PM
I believe we were dealing guns to Syria in Bengazi. That's what I think it was all about. I think it was to the rebels though.

War makes great recurring revenue.

Rohirrim
09-11-2013, 04:41 PM
War makes great recurring revenue.

Yeah, but a war in Syria just wouldn't generate enough money to get us out of this economic mess. We need a bigger fish to fry. Iran. Or Russia. That would do it. The MIC could rake in some serious dough. ;D

alkemical
09-11-2013, 04:48 PM
Yeah, but a war in Syria just wouldn't generate enough money to get us out of this economic mess. We need a bigger fish to fry. Iran. Or Russia. That would do it. The MIC could rake in some serious dough. ;D

Serfs don't get spoils of war.

mhgaffney
09-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Putin's next move?

This would not surprise me. MHG

The Syrian Gambit-The Next Surprise Move?

by Barry Lando

http://barrymlando.com/https/barry-landosquarespacecom/

Just a hunch, but Bashar al-Assad and Vladimir Putin may have another surprise chess move to play—one that may catch Israel and its U.S. ally completely off guard.

From the start, Syria’s leaders have viewed their Chemical Weapons as a kind of poor man’s weapon of mass destruction—an affordable way for them to present a meaningful deterrent to Israel’s overwhelming military might, and particularly to Israel’s nuclear capability.

As I previously wrote, that’s the bottom line of several serious studies of Syria’s weapons program, done over the past few years by American and other experts, such as Charles Blair of the Federation of American Scientists. Aa a paper published by the European Union’s non-proliferation consortium in July 2012, concluded, “Syria’s CWs are not tactical or battlefield weapons, but rather a strategic deterrence against Israel’s conventional superiority and its nuclear weapons arsenal.”

Now, Syria and its Russian sponsors have announced that Syria would be willing to give up its CW and sign the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The next move? What would be more natural than for the Assad and Putin to call upon Israel to give up its WMD —i.e. its nuclear weapons, and to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty.

A perfectly reasonable request, they would say. The U.S. and Israel and Israel’s backers would squirm and fume: Israel, after all, is a civilized state, they would say, run by civilized men, like Bibi Netanyahu not tyrants like Assad.

Will Assad and Putin make that move? It would seem a natural.

mhgaffney
09-12-2013, 03:51 PM
When was the last time a US president spoke with the clarity and sanity displayed in Putin's NYTimes op-ed, yesterday?

You'd have to go back 50 years to JFK. MHG


September 11, 2013

A Plea for Caution From Russia
By VLADIMIR V. PUTIN

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0&pagewanted=print

MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Rohirrim
09-12-2013, 04:51 PM
Der Gaffo doesn't realize that Russia is Assad's largest weapons supplier and probably gave him the sarin gas. Did Putin mention how this civil war got started? Assad's snipers were picking off peaceful protesters in the streets from rooftops. The leadership of the peaceful protests disappeared and haven't been seen since. Putin has vetoed every attempt made by the international community to bring any kind of relief to the Syrian people. He moans that the UN might collapse like the League of Nations and yet he is the one blocking every action the UN takes. Putin knows that Assad has killed thousands and was responsible for the chemical attacks (where the hell does he think the opposition would get chemical weapons?) and yet he has also blocked efforts to turn the whole thing over to the International Court which would investigate both sides.

Why am I not surprised that he's Gaffo's new hero? One of the biggest thugs on the world stage attacks America and what does Gaffo do? He shakes his cheerleader pom poms.

BTW, an old KGB spook lecturing Obama on "God creating us equal" is pretty damn laughable.

mhgaffney
09-13-2013, 08:12 AM
Der Gaffo doesn't realize that Russia is Assad's largest weapons supplier and probably gave him the sarin gas. Did Putin mention how this civil war got started? Assad's snipers were picking off peaceful protesters in the streets from rooftops. The leadership of the peaceful protests disappeared and haven't been seen since. Putin has vetoed every attempt made by the international community to bring any kind of relief to the Syrian people. He moans that the UN might collapse like the League of Nations and yet he is the one blocking every action the UN takes. Putin knows that Assad has killed thousands and was responsible for the chemical attacks (where the hell does he think the opposition would get chemical weapons?) and yet he has also blocked efforts to turn the whole thing over to the International Court which would investigate both sides.

Why am I not surprised that he's Gaffo's new hero? One of the biggest thugs on the world stage attacks America and what does Gaffo do? He shakes his cheerleader pom poms.

BTW, an old KGB spook lecturing Obama on "God creating us equal" is pretty damn laughable.

Sorry, it won't wash. Ro, you should spend more time doing your homework.

We are witnessing a replay of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Assad probably has Sarin -- as a strategic weapon to be used against Israel as a last resort. He does not have tactical chemical weapons.

Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.

Ro can't face the probability that the opposition (Al Qaeda) did the attack -- to set up Assad. A classic false flag.

Ro also can't face the fact that a Russian pres has become more credible than our own. I agree it's a sad day -- but there it is.
MHG

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-13-2013, 08:36 AM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ntkkJwl8TNY?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
09-13-2013, 09:00 AM
Sorry, it won't wash. Ro, you should spend more time doing your homework.

We are witnessing a replay of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Assad probably has Sarin -- as a strategic weapon to be used against Israel as a last resort. He does not have tactical chemical weapons.

Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.

Ro can't face the probability that the opposition (Al Qaeda) did the attack -- to set up Assad. A classic false flag.

Ro also can't face the fact that a Russian pres has become more credible than our own. I agree it's a sad day -- but there it is.
MHG

You would call a trip to the grocery store a false flag operation. Nothing that ever happens is simply what it appears to be, right Gaffo?

BTW, if Al Queda got its hands on some sarin gas, it wouldn't waste it in Syria.

Rohirrim
09-13-2013, 09:05 AM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ntkkJwl8TNY?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ha! Right wingers hate Obama so much, they're climbing on board with the KGB.

BroncoBeavis
09-13-2013, 09:23 AM
When was the last time a US president spoke with the clarity and sanity displayed in Putin's NYTimes op-ed, yesterday?

GD, Gaff. That's some crazy **** you're huffing. Whatever it is.

DenverBrit
09-13-2013, 09:35 AM
Sorry, it won't wash. Ro, you should spend more time doing your homework.

We are witnessing a replay of Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Assad probably has Sarin -- as a strategic weapon to be used against Israel as a last resort. He does not have tactical chemical weapons.

Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.

Ro can't face the probability that the opposition (Al Qaeda) did the attack -- to set up Assad. A classic false flag.

Ro also can't face the fact that a Russian pres has become more credible than our own. I agree it's a sad day -- but there it is.
MHG

You support any tyrant, no matter how evil, who's on the opposite side of the US. Pathetic.

W*GS
09-13-2013, 11:26 AM
You support any tyrant, no matter how evil, who's on the opposite side of the US. Pathetic.

Yep. gaffe wants the US utterly eviscerated and humiliated, regardless of context, because he views the US as nothing more than a tool of the Jews and only when the US is gutted, will we get rid of our Zionist puppetmasters and take back our country. He's just like Hitler. Always looking for a scapegoat.

gaffe sucks up to America's enemies because he's a spineless prick.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-13-2013, 11:46 AM
Ha! Right wingers hate Obama so much, they're climbing on board with the KGB.

Just the same way you hated Bush and sided with KGB. What's the diff. LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-13-2013, 11:48 AM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B5OcKbJLB74?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

W*GS
09-13-2013, 11:55 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DkGEBfVXkT4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
09-13-2013, 02:14 PM
Just the same way you hated Bush and sided with KGB. What's the diff. LOL

Everybody already knows you're a dumbass. You don't have to keep proving it over and over again.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-13-2013, 08:04 PM
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/970204_638098656211175_2093274597_n.jpg

DenverBrit
09-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Syria crisis: UN report to confirm chemical arms attack
A UN report expected next week will "overwhelmingly" confirm that chemical weapons were used in Syria last month, the secretary general says.

Ban Ki-moon made no comment on who was to blame for the 21 August attack in the Ghouta area of Damascus, as that is not part of the report's remit.

But he did say Syria's president was guilty of "crimes against humanity".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24088277

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-13-2013, 11:11 PM
Syria crisis: UN report to confirm chemical arms attack
A UN report expected next week will "overwhelmingly" confirm that chemical weapons were used in Syria last month, the secretary general says.

Ban Ki-moon made no comment on who was to blame for the 21 August attack in the Ghouta area of Damascus, as that is not part of the report's remit.

But he did say Syria's president was guilty of "crimes against humanity".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24088277

But who fired the rounds?

W*GS
09-14-2013, 09:17 AM
One of the godfathers of the Right, Faux News chief Roger Ailes, on Syria, in 2012:

“Putin is angry. He thinks the United States doesn’t take him seriously or treat Russia as a major player. Okay, fine, that’s how he feels. If I were president, I’d get in a room with him and say, ‘Look at the slaughter going on in Syria. You can stop it. Do it, and I’ll see to it that you can get all the credit. I’ll tell the world it was you who saved the innocent children of Syria from slaughter. You’ll be an international hero. You’ll go down in history.’ Hell, Putin would go to bed thinking, ‘That’s not a bad offer.’ There will still be plenty of other issues I’d have with Russia. But instead of looking for one huge deal that settles everything, you take a piece of the problem and solve it. Give an incentive for good behavior. Show the other guy his self-interest. Everybody has an ego. Everybody needs dignity. And what does it cost? You get what you want you give up nothing.”

Roger Ailes's Syria solution (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/09/roger-ailess-syria-solution-171995.html)

houghtam
09-14-2013, 10:01 AM
One of the godfathers of the Right, Faux News chief Roger Ailes, on Syria, in 2012:



Roger Ailes's Syria solution (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/09/roger-ailess-syria-solution-171995.html)

LOL

I wonder how far back the conservative knob slobbering of Russian ideals goes back?

Perhaps the whole McCarthyism era was really one of those situations where someone protests so much against homosexuality and then gets caught with a male hooker in their hotel room.

Rohirrim
09-14-2013, 10:49 AM
The Right has always had a thinly disguised fondness for despotism. ;D

W*GS
09-14-2013, 11:00 AM
LOL

I wonder how far back the conservative knob slobbering of Russian ideals goes back?

When the Right calls for "leadership", usually what they have in mind is a Putinesque authoritarian.

nyuk nyuk
09-14-2013, 11:27 AM
Obama rescued by a blue eyed ex KGB devil. Oh my!

nyuk nyuk
09-14-2013, 11:28 AM
The Right has always had a thinly disguised fondness for despotism. ;D

How about a little context?

nyuk nyuk
09-14-2013, 11:29 AM
Yep. gaffe wants the US utterly eviscerated and humiliated, regardless of context, because he views the US as nothing more than a tool of the Jews and only when the US is gutted, will we get rid of our Zionist puppetmasters and take back our country. He's just like Hitler. Always looking for a scapegoat.

gaffe sucks up to America's enemies because he's a spineless prick.

Just replace the word Jews here with capitalists and you have much of the modern left.

houghtam
09-14-2013, 11:32 AM
When the Right calls for "leadership", usually what they have in mind is a Putinesque authoritarian.

Except when they are enacting laws based on conservative ideals through a constitutionally sound process.

Man, those guys are an enigma wrapped in a conundrum and sealed with a big giant WTF.

:yayaya:

W*GS
09-14-2013, 11:51 AM
Just replace the word Jews here with capitalists and you have much of the modern left.

Not really.

But then, I consider it's you making the comment, so virtually automatically it's wrong.

W*GS
09-14-2013, 11:52 AM
Except when they are enacting laws based on conservative ideals through a constitutionally sound process.

Man, those guys are an enigma wrapped in a conundrum and sealed with a big giant WTF.

:yayaya:

Putin is the ultimate conservative. That's why the Right is slobbering all over him. He even uses the same language...

We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

DenverBrit
09-14-2013, 12:58 PM
Putin is the ultimate conservative. That's why the Right is slobbering all over him. He even uses the same language...

The KGB were famous for their religious devotion and adherence to Christian beliefs..... in much the same way as some of the moonbat right wing. Ha!

houghtam
09-14-2013, 01:37 PM
The KGB were famous for their religious devotion and adherence to Christian beliefs..... in much the same way as some of the moonbat right wing. Ha!

Don't forget spying on their own people.

Although that "ultra-liberal Ay-rabb soshulist" Obama does that too, so now it's bad.

LOL

Meck77
09-14-2013, 07:01 PM
It appears America has had enough of being Israel's pit bull. It's about time.

The votes just weren't there and Obama knew it. Putin gave him a chance to wiggle out.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-14-2013, 11:01 PM
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1235325_581548185234004_155671320_n.jpg

Rohirrim
09-15-2013, 01:38 AM
The only people on Earth who still think Jay Leno is funny. LOL

peacepipe
09-16-2013, 06:50 AM
It appears America has had enough of being Israel's pit bull. It's about time.

The votes just weren't there and Obama knew it. Putin gave him a chance to wiggle out.

putin didn't do anything,except for give in to what we wanted. what was he going to do,if the U.S. bombed syria? absolutely nothing & everybody knew it. At the end of the day russia would've looked weak to their allies,if they had not come with some kind of deal. there's one question to ask after this, who is it that got what they wanted in all of this? Obama. Putin could've sat back,let a possible no vote happen in congress and have the last laugh.

DenverBrit
09-16-2013, 11:31 AM
Whatever chemical agent was used on Aug 21, it was not Sarin, which causes massive vomiting. Did you see any of the victims vomiting? No. It was something else.
MHG

LOL

You need to wake up, climb down off your high horse and admit you have no clue about almost anything you post here. Especially anything to do with......ANYTHING!Ha!

Stick with organic gardening and poetry.

U.N. report confirms chemical weapons use in Syria

“Chemical weapons have been used in the ongoing conflict between the parties in the Syrian Arab Republic, also against civilians, including children, on a relatively large scale,” inspectors concluded in a 38-page report, which included analysis of chemical, environmental and medical samples.

Those samples provided “clear and convincing” evidence that rockets containing sarin were deployed in the area, the report said.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/16/20524937-un-report-confirms-chemical-weapons-use-in-syria?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

Meck77
09-16-2013, 11:43 AM
putin didn't do anything,except for give in to what we wanted. what was he going to do,if the U.S. bombed syria? absolutely nothing & everybody knew it. At the end of the day russia would've looked weak to their allies,if they had not come with some kind of deal. there's one question to ask after this, who is it that got what they wanted in all of this? Obama. Putin could've sat back,let a possible no vote happen in congress and have the last laugh.

Obama could slaugher babies on the streets of DC and you'd still support him.

Anyway the importance of what is really happening is that congress took a stand against the powerful Israeli lobby that has dominated our foreign policy and sunk us trillions in debt and got us in these never ending wars.

Syria and Iran will remain a threat to Israel. That is the real threat going on. Anybody with any common sense knows this. They aren't a threat to America.

BroncoBeavis
09-16-2013, 11:44 AM
It appears America has had enough of being Israel's pit bull. It's about time.

The votes just weren't there and Obama knew it. Putin gave him a chance to wiggle out.

I'm not sure Israel has all that much interest in seeing Assad overthrown. The Devil you Know, you know? I just think they'd just prefer the whole civil war doesn't get too messy (on either side)

peacepipe
09-16-2013, 01:17 PM
Obama could slaugher babies on the streets of DC and you'd still support him.

Anyway the importance of what is really happening is that congress took a stand against the powerful Israeli lobby that has dominated our foreign policy and sunk us trillions in debt and got us in these never ending wars.

Syria and Iran will remain a threat to Israel. That is the real threat going on. Anybody with any common sense knows this. They aren't a threat to America.


whatever,this coming from someone that if obama found the cure to cancer would call him a heretic.. I took an objectiive approach to what happened & you don't like it, unless it's bashing obama. I have stated disagreements with obama for example on his persistance about being able to bomb syria without approval. I am even supportive of impeaching him if he were to act against a no vote,but no vote ever happened so no stand was ever taken by congress.

At the end of the day congress never took a stand,they never voted,they just did alot of yapping.

I can agree that isreal has become nothing more than the perverbial spoiled child.

gyldenlove
09-16-2013, 08:59 PM
I'm not sure Israel has all that much interest in seeing Assad overthrown. The Devil you Know, you know? I just think they'd just prefer the whole civil war doesn't get too messy (on either side)

Very few countries have real interest in seeing Assad go, he is a moderate muslim and a reasonably secular guy, he has been stable and has solid background in Western economic theory. The only countries who really oppose him are all fundamental islamic states like Iran, Saudi Arabia, The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Now that Egypt and Pakistan have fallen as muslim countries that accepted religious minorities, that leaves very few in the middle east. After the initial sabre rattling by the usual suspects when news of the gas attack broke, it pretty quickly became clear that most of the government leaders were not actually interested in attacking Assad or deposing him with a proposed attack.

mhgaffney
09-17-2013, 08:40 AM
The only people on Earth who still think Jay Leno is funny. LOL

Ro has forgotten how to laugh -- now that his dark villain has become a world class statesman.

He can't handle it.

mhgaffney
09-17-2013, 08:53 AM
LOL

You need to wake up, climb down off your high horse and admit you have no clue about almost anything you post here. Especially anything to do with......ANYTHING!Ha!

Stick with organic gardening and poetry.

U.N. report confirms chemical weapons use in Syria


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/16/20524937-un-report-confirms-chemical-weapons-use-in-syria?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

What an A- hole.

I read the UN report. The fatality rates suggest this was not weapons grade Sarin - which is consistent with the now confirmed fact that the rebels had some form of Sarin --

A Turkish judge has just indicted the rebels for seeking Sarin
http://rt.com/news/turkey-syria-chemical-weapons-850/

mhgaffney
09-17-2013, 08:54 AM
I'm not sure Israel has all that much interest in seeing Assad overthrown. The Devil you Know, you know? I just think they'd just prefer the whole civil war doesn't get too messy (on either side)

They do. Israel wants a failed state next door - - this helps Israel to dominate the region.

They were behind the US attack on Iraq in 2003 -- for the same reason.

Rohirrim
09-17-2013, 09:31 AM
Ro has forgotten how to laugh -- now that his dark villain has become a world class statesman.

He can't handle it.

Putin is a thug and a murderer. Journalists who write the truth about him get thrown off buildings. Political opponents end up in prison, their property confiscated, or they ingest radioactive isotopes "by mistake." Nice guy to choose for a hero, Gaffo.

Jay Leno stopped being funny twenty years ago.

DenverBrit
09-17-2013, 09:32 AM
I read the UN report. The fatality rates suggest this was not weapons grade Sarin - which is consistent with the now confirmed fact that the rebels had some form of Sarin --


LOL

Gaffney has spoken, ignore the UN inspector's report, he's read it, they've got it wrong.

If only they knew to ask our resident wacko!! :loopy:

Rohirrim
09-17-2013, 09:35 AM
LOL

Gaffney has spoken, ignore the UN inspector's report, he's read it, they've got it wrong.

If only they knew to ask our resident wacko!! :loopy:

It's an easy paradigm for the conspiracist: If you deny their "truth," you're part of the conspiracy.

DenverBrit
09-17-2013, 09:42 AM
It's an easy paradigm for the conspiracist: If you deny their "truth," you're part of the conspiracy.

To quote Thomas W. Eagar, an engineering professor at MIT.

Conspiracy theorists "use the 'reverse scientific method'.
They determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion,
and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion."

mhgaffney
09-17-2013, 10:37 AM
To quote Thomas W. Eagar, an engineering professor at MIT.

Brit is surreal.

He has it exactly backwards.

BTW, Eagar's explanation for the WTC collapse was refuted many years ago.

DenverBrit
09-17-2013, 12:18 PM
Brit is surreal.

He has it exactly backwards.[/B]

BTW, Eagar's explanation for the WTC collapse was refuted many years ago.

LOL

More 'reverse engineering.'

Tell us again how you debunked the UN report. Idiot!! :loopy:

Rohirrim
09-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Gaffo would never answer my question: Give us a rough estimate of how many people are involved in the 9/11 conspiracy and how many organizations do they represent?

W*GS
09-17-2013, 02:20 PM
Gaffo would never answer my question: Give us a rough estimate of how many people are involved in the 9/11 conspiracy and how many organizations do they represent?

He can't even tell us what Venus is or when America was at its apex.

He's just a chicken****.