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Rigs11
08-08-2013, 03:21 PM
USA! USA!USA! Spin away righties!:rofl:

U.S. soars in world popularity charts post Iraq ó but will it last?

Favorable global feelings toward the United States have returned to 2002 levels, matching generally warm, pro-American sentiments measured just prior to the Iraq War: 64 percent of the planetís inhabitants tend to like America, according to numbers tabulated for NBC News by the Pew Research Center.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/08/19934453-us-soars-in-world-popularity-charts-post-iraq-but-will-it-last?lite

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 03:48 PM
Is this supposed to matter to somebody?

Rohirrim
08-08-2013, 03:54 PM
We've got great PR. Not as good as the Brits, but pretty good. Of course, they've got that accent.

Bacchus
08-08-2013, 04:07 PM
USA! USA!USA! Spin away righties!:rofl:

U.S. soars in world popularity charts post Iraq ó but will it last?

Favorable global feelings toward the United States have returned to 2002 levels, matching generally warm, pro-American sentiments measured just prior to the Iraq War: 64 percent of the planetís inhabitants tend to like America, according to numbers tabulated for NBC News by the Pew Research Center.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/08/19934453-us-soars-in-world-popularity-charts-post-iraq-but-will-it-last?lite

Its called the Obama effect

nyuk nyuk
08-08-2013, 04:38 PM
So you're saying they appreciate Bush knocking off Saddam.

Alrightythen.

You can't say offing Saddam was bad and turn around and show the US is more popular afterward. Come off it.

BroncoLifer
08-08-2013, 05:00 PM
What really matters is whether or not they respect us.

orinjkrush
08-08-2013, 06:20 PM
umm, they like America (Americans) but hate the policies (government)?

throughout the world if the populace likes America (Americans), they generally hate the government. Maybe they know something?

Rigs11
08-09-2013, 09:40 AM
Dance righties! Dance!:rofl:

DenverBrit
08-09-2013, 09:51 AM
So you're saying they appreciate Bush knocking off Saddam.

Alrightythen.

You can't say offing Saddam was bad and turn around and show the US is more popular afterward. Come off it.

Is that really how you read those stats? :rofl:

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 10:20 AM
Suggested new thread title.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MWtUVDG5M1w?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Apparently the Sum Total of the Progressive Foreign Policy Agenda. :)

DenverBrit
08-09-2013, 10:41 AM
Suggested new thread title.



Being liked is good for business.

Rigs11
08-09-2013, 10:59 AM
Being liked is good for business.

yep, the righties complain about evil terrorists, they complain about our foreign policy. Then when some good news comes out, they say it doesn't matter.:~ohyah!:pessimists.they cheerlead when obama fails, even if it's bad for the country.

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 11:08 AM
Being liked is good for business.

Respected, probably. Liked.... meh. There are lots of likable people you'd be crazy to do business with.

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 11:10 AM
yep, the righties complain about evil terrorists, they complain about our foreign policy. Then when some good news comes out, they say it doesn't matter.:~ohyah!:pessimists.they cheerlead when obama fails, even if it's bad for the country.

Yeah, nothing spells success like declaring the war won and then shutting down all your embassies in the region every time you hear someone sneeze. LOL

That'll earn their respect.

DenverBrit
08-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Respected, probably. Liked.... meh. There are lots of likable people you'd be crazy to do business with.

Then you don't understand even the basics (101) of 'doing business.'

DenverBrit
08-09-2013, 11:40 AM
yep, the righties complain about evil terrorists, they complain about our foreign policy. Then when some good news comes out, they say it doesn't matter.:~ohyah!:pessimists.they cheerlead when obama fails, even if it's bad for the country.

The business side of the GOP understand it, but large segments of those who vote for them are apparently clueless.

DenverBrit
08-09-2013, 11:42 AM
Yeah, nothing spells success like declaring the war won and then shutting down all your embassies in the region every time you hear someone sneeze. LOL

That'll earn their respect.

So you're privy to the intelligence and think the closures unnecessary?

Or are you hoping for another Benghazi?

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 12:06 PM
So you're privy to the intelligence and think the closures unnecessary?

Or are you hoping for another Benghazi?

Well the intelligence can't be that intelligent with closures so widespread. At some point the prevention becomes as bad as the disease. Imagine how much these guys might be laughing their asses off if they were just throwing up chatter to get a rise.

In the end, needless to say that the whole "Al Qaeda is on the run" stuff looks pretty silly as we're shuttering embassies all over the region based on secret chatter. If they have such a free hand that we don't even know where in the world they might see advantage, and strike, it becomes pretty clear that we're losing the war more than winning it.

Rigs11
08-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Yeah, nothing spells success like declaring the war won and then shutting down all your embassies in the region every time you hear someone sneeze. LOL

That'll earn their respect.

yep and if you don't shut them down, then faux news and their sheep go all benghazi on them if they don't do something to heed warnings. perfect example of your party.

TonyR
08-09-2013, 12:54 PM
So you're saying they appreciate Bush knocking off Saddam.

LOL Yes, knocking him off did wonders for the stability of the region! Let's do some more "democracy building"!

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 01:10 PM
yep and if you don't shut them down, then faux news and their sheep go all benghazi on them if they don't do something to heed warnings. perfect example of your party.

Maybe it'd help if when an ambassador begs you for help against the attack he feels is imminent, you do something other than say "Hey, bud. Sorry, can't help ya. Got a reelection to think about here."

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 01:12 PM
LOL Yes, knocking him off did wonders for the stability of the region! Let's do some more "democracy building"!

You do realize Obama's currently working on his 3rd plinked dictator. With zero practical concern for what comes after.

TonyR
08-09-2013, 01:23 PM
You do realize Obama's currently working on his 3rd plinked dictator. With zero practical concern for what comes after.

Dictators that were directly taken out by U.S. forces that included an invasion and occupation of the country?

Rigs11
08-09-2013, 01:29 PM
Maybe it'd help if when an ambassador begs you for help against the attack he feels is imminent, you do something other than say "Hey, bud. Sorry, can't help ya. Got a reelection to think about here."

Ya,mistakes are made.kinda like when someone tells you that someone is going to attack in the US and you don't heed the warnings. Get off your high horse beavis and stop salivating over bad news.

TonyR
08-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Get off your high horse beavis and stop salivating over bad news.

He's still waiting for one of those 3 big "scandals" he was so gleeful aobut to bring down the current administration. All 3 appear to be moss covered at this point. But, the liberal media conspiracy is probably to blame...

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 01:56 PM
Dictators that were directly taken out by U.S. forces that included an invasion and occupation of the country?

I went over this once before, but what's worse.... Offing a dictator and putting (inadequate) boots on the ground, realizing at least in part that you're responsible for what comes after. Or....

Just offing the dictator and thinking a grand speech or three will negate the need for all of the hands-dirty business.

And I know in the fan club clubhouse, it might not be sinking in that everyone in the real world is starting to realize. But here you go.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/obama-s-confused-syria-policy.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/09/opinion/ghitis-obama-mideast/

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Ya,mistakes are made.kinda like when someone tells you that someone is going to attack in the US and you don't heed the warnings. Get off your high horse beavis and stop salivating over bad news.

No mistake. Politics above all else. That's the difference.

TonyR
08-09-2013, 01:59 PM
Offing a dictator...

But who did we directly "off"?

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 02:17 PM
But who did we directly "off"?

Naivety is a lame defense.

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 02:31 PM
He's still waiting for one of those 3 big "scandals" he was so gleeful aobut to bring down the current administration. All 3 appear to be moss covered at this point. But, the liberal media conspiracy is probably to blame...

I never said any of these scandals would bring down the President. In fact I think I said the opposite. What it does do though, along with your no-matter-what cheerleading, is substantially lower the bar for any future administration. Hard to even imagine what you kids will have to complain about anymore.

TonyR
08-09-2013, 03:52 PM
Naivety is a lame defense.

So, then, you're not going to answer the question?

TonyR
08-09-2013, 03:55 PM
I never said any of these scandals would bring down the President. In fact I think I said the opposite.

I'm fairly positive that myself (and several others) took the position that these scandals were being overblown, and that you (and several others) said they were big deals and weren't going away any time soon. I think it's fairly clearly who was right and who was wrong. Man up and take ownership.

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 03:58 PM
So, then, you're not going to answer the question?

First you'll have to tell us who GW ousted. Just so we can get all definitions on the table.

BroncoBeavis
08-09-2013, 04:10 PM
I'm fairly positive that myself (and several others) took the position that these scandals were being overblown, and that you (and several others) said they were big deals and weren't going away any time soon. I think it's fairly clearly who was right and who was wrong. Man up and take ownership.

Well, we can't all define "scandal" by how it makes me and Andrew Sullivan feel way down deep in our pants. LOL

Both the EFF and ACLU filed suit against the NSA's "phony scandal" related activities. But Tony gets tingles when the President says "nothing to see here" so obviously there's nothing to any of it.

DenverBrit
08-09-2013, 10:00 PM
First you'll have to tell us who GW ousted. Just so we can get all definitions on the table.

Do you actually think going to war on a lie, and getting rid of the one dictator Bin Laden hated more than the West was worth the sacrifice?

In addition to the tens of thousands of lives:
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.costofwar.com/costofwar-embed.js"></script>
<style type="text/css"> #costOfWarIraq { text-align: center; width: 250px; font-weight: bold; } #costOfWarIraq_Total { font-size: 1.3em; font-weight: bold; color: #990000; } #costOfWarIraq_Link { font-size: .7em; } </style>

<div id="costOfWarIraq"><script>initCostOfIraq();</script></div>

BroncoBeavis
08-10-2013, 06:16 AM
Do you actually think going to war on a lie, and getting rid of the one dictator Bin Laden hated more than the West was worth the sacrifice?

In addition to the tens of thousands of lives:
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.costofwar.com/costofwar-embed.js"></script>
<style type="text/css"> #costOfWarIraq { text-align: center; width: 250px; font-weight: bold; } #costOfWarIraq_Total { font-size: 1.3em; font-weight: bold; color: #990000; } #costOfWarIraq_Link { font-size: .7em; } </style>

<div id="costOfWarIraq"><script>initCostOfIraq();</script></div>

You'll have to point out where I said that. And are you saying Bush lied? Because with how far you're currently willing to go down the road of plausible executive ignorance, that's a laughable double standard.

DenverBrit
08-10-2013, 10:32 AM
You'll have to point out where I said that. And are you saying Bush lied? Because with how far you're currently willing to go down the road of plausible executive ignorance, that's a laughable double standard.

Explain.

TonyR
08-10-2013, 10:38 AM
First you'll have to tell us who GW ousted. Just so we can get all definitions on the table.

Just stop dodging and stalling and answer the question. Who has been directly taken down by the U.S. since Obama has been POTUS in a manner which remotely resembles what occurred with Iraq/Hussein?

DenverBrit
08-10-2013, 10:49 AM
You'll have to point out where I said that. And are you saying Bush lied? Because with how far you're currently willing to go down the road of plausible executive ignorance, that's a laughable double standard.


It was a question: Was it worth the sacrifice? Was it? (same question)

No, I'm not saying Bush lied, however:

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:45 AM
It was a question: Was it worth the sacrifice? Was it? (same question)

No, I'm not saying Bush lied, however:

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

"False statement"? What is that?

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:48 AM
Just stop dodging and stalling and answer the question. Who has been directly taken down by the U.S. since Obama has been POTUS in a manner which remotely resembles what occurred with Iraq/Hussein?

When the US enacts as policy to take out a government, it RARELY does so directly. Keep in mind offing the Saddam Hussein regime was put into policy during the Clinton administration and was bipartisan policy from that point onward.

The US was actively involved with the rebel forces that took down and executed Ghaddafi. Why is this even up to debate here? If you're trying to climb upon a moral high horse with the false belief that the US hasn't been directly involved in trying to bump off governments since Obama took over, you're living in dreamland. Now we're also actively helping the Syrian rebels.

There is also for whatever odd reason I would say to raise the goalposts acting as if using a proxy is somehow more morally acceptable than directly shooting someone in the ass. That doesn't make sense.

W*GS
08-10-2013, 11:48 AM
"False statement"? What is that?

Just about every statement made by the Bush cabal before their war.

"False" meaning "at variance with reality". I'm sure you can think of a few.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:51 AM
Just about every statement made by the Bush cabal before their war.

"False" meaning "at variance with reality". I'm sure you can think of a few.

All politicians do such things. Clearly the unspoken insinuation here was that false = lies by default. That's a steep hill to climb.

TonyR
08-10-2013, 12:06 PM
That doesn't make sense.

What doesn't make sense is your post because I didn't argue against, and I don't necessarily disagree with, any of it. So you're positioning your post as if you're telling me something I don't know and/or that you're arguing against me when you're really doing neither. None of the "dictator takedowns" that have occurred post Iraq/Hussien have remotely resembled or been as disasterous for our country as that long, expensive fiasco.

DenverBrit
08-10-2013, 12:41 PM
"False statement"? What is that?

Can't comprehend, or just being your deliberately obtuse self? 8')

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 01:01 PM
What doesn't make sense is your post because I didn't argue against, and I don't necessarily disagree with, any of it. So you're positioning your post as if you're telling me something I don't know and/or that you're arguing against me when you're really doing neither. None of the "dictator takedowns" that have occurred post Iraq/Hussien have remotely resembled or been as disasterous for our country as that long, expensive fiasco.

My point is that it is clear to me that you're moving the goalposts on the topic of dictator removal to a place as such as that only Bush is at fault. All I can gather is that dictator removal isn't the problem it's that A) It was direct instead of as usual through a proxy, and B) It didn't work out well.

What does that prove?

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 01:02 PM
Can't comprehend, or just being your deliberately obtuse self? 8')

If you weren't so lazy as to read 2 posts above this one, you'd have seen my point.

:yayaya:

DenverBrit
08-10-2013, 01:30 PM
If you weren't so lazy as to read 2 posts above this one, you'd have seen my point.

:yayaya:

I'm responding to your comment to my post.

A post that had a Cheney quote that was false.

I can't make it any simpler for you. :yayaya:

BroncoBeavis
08-10-2013, 05:30 PM
Explain.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3848667&postcount=438

Oh and this one's really rich.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3848381&postcount=396

Obama admin cooks up phony Youtube facts to cover up a larger scandal. DB maintains that the Administration went nationwide with this bull**** for days whilst the poor poor President had no idea where it came from or whether it was true.

Meanwhile, Bush follows the same line on the same intelligence drawn by Hill n Bill (his predecessors) and everything he says is a DIRTY LIE! LOL

W*GS
08-10-2013, 06:14 PM
All politicians do such things. Clearly the unspoken insinuation here was that false = lies by default. That's a steep hill to climb.

Not many politicians have lied us into a war, as the Bushies did. And so ostentatiously, too.

DenverBrit
08-10-2013, 06:47 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3848667&postcount=438

Oh and this one's really rich.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3848381&postcount=396

Obama admin cooks up phony Youtube facts to cover up a larger scandal. DB maintains that the Administration went nationwide with this bull**** for days whilst the poor poor President had no idea where it came from or whether it was true.

Meanwhile, Bush follows the same line on the same intelligence drawn by Hill n Bill (his predecessors) and everything he says is a DIRTY LIE! LOL

What larger scandal and what does anything you're posting have to do with the Iraq war?? You're desperately reaching as usual.

Why not answer the original question instead of deflecting off into some strange attempt at false equivalency?

Was the Iraq war worth the sacrifice??

BroncoBeavis
08-11-2013, 08:39 PM
What larger scandal and what does anything you're posting have to do with the Iraq war?? You're desperately reaching as usual.

Why not answer the original question instead of deflecting off into some strange attempt at false equivalency?

Was the Iraq war worth the sacrifice??


Hey, I get it, I get it. Bush subscribing to the same beliefs as his predecessor, that had been the prevailing wisdom for a decade+.... Bush Lied, people died, etc etc.

Obama's team burnin' the midnight oil making up fantasmical stories they knew were impossible from the word go.... no biggie unless it's written in the President's handwriting. And then you might say a polite apology was in order. LOL

Oh, and BTW, this thread isn't about Iraq. Just want Tony to flesh out for me what the technical difference is in how we ousted Saddam vs say Muammar.

houghtam
08-11-2013, 09:03 PM
^ LOL that guy.

TonyR
08-12-2013, 07:36 AM
Just want Tony to flesh out for me what the technical difference is in how we ousted Saddam vs say Muammar.

You mean other than the invasion and occupation, the hundreds of millions of dollars (and counting) spent, the tens of thousands of lives (and counting), and the widespread destabilization of the region?

Rohirrim
08-12-2013, 07:42 AM
Hey, I get it, I get it. Bush subscribing to the same beliefs as his predecessor, that had been the prevailing wisdom for a decade+.... Bush Lied, people died, etc etc.

Obama's team burnin' the midnight oil making up fantasmical stories they knew were impossible from the word go.... no biggie unless it's written in the President's handwriting. And then you might say a polite apology was in order. LOL

Oh, and BTW, this thread isn't about Iraq. Just want Tony to flesh out for me what the technical difference is in how we ousted Saddam vs say Muammar.

http://www.slugtales.com/powell%20bumperstickers.jpg

Bacchus
08-12-2013, 08:29 AM
http://www.slugtales.com/powell%20bumperstickers.jpg

LMAO!!!!!!! HAHAHA yeah I remember all those mobile weapon labs he was supposed to have had...wow and we believed them... I am embarrassed but I'll never believe them so easily again.

DenverBrit
08-12-2013, 08:58 AM
Hey, I get it, I get it. Bush subscribing to the same beliefs as his predecessor, that had been the prevailing wisdom for a decade+.... Bush Lied, people died, etc etc.

Obama's team burnin' the midnight oil making up fantasmical stories they knew were impossible from the word go.... no biggie unless it's written in the President's handwriting. And then you might say a polite apology was in order. LOL

Oh, and BTW, this thread isn't about Iraq. Just want Tony to flesh out for me what the technical difference is in how we ousted Saddam vs say Muammar.

:spit:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1714245/tapdancing-dummy-o.gif (http://gifsoup.com/view/1714245/tapdancing-dummy.html)

DenverBrit
08-12-2013, 09:15 AM
http://www.slugtales.com/powell%20bumperstickers.jpg

http://cloudfront-5.publicintegrity.org/files/styles/8col/public/img/WarCardChart.jpeg?itok=yN8xfaJe

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2008/01/23/5649/methodology

BroncoBeavis
08-12-2013, 09:23 AM
You mean other than the invasion and occupation, the hundreds of millions of dollars (and counting) spent, the tens of thousands of lives (and counting), and the widespread destabilization of the region?

News flash. Bad things happen. Even if there's not an MSNBC camera present in the forest to see it.

What we got wrapped up with in Iraq wasn't good. But our "Too good for war but not too good to outsource it" foreign policy is even worse.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/03/al-qaeda-3-0-terrorism-s-emergent-new-power-bases.html

Its not hard logic to follow. You can create a vacuum and then try to fill it. Or just create the vacuum then sit back with a smoke and a smile to see what happens next. Sad to say a large group of people think the latter preferable. They take the shortest of short-term views.