PDA

View Full Version : Black Self-Sabotage


nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 09:13 AM
Note the marriage statistics. It blows out of the water the bogus lefty theory of "the legacy of slavery" driving up black out of wedlock births. Beginning in earnest in the 60s, political radicals took aim at the family unit and began promoting single parenthood as legitimate and consequently out of wedlock birth rates for all races in the US began to climb.


Black Self-Sabotage (http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams.html)
by Walter E. Williams

If we put ourselves into the shoes of racists who seek to sabotage black upward mobility, we couldn't develop a more effective agenda than that followed by civil rights organizations, black politicians, academics, liberals and the news media. Let's look at it....

W*GS
08-04-2013, 09:20 AM
What's the conservative response, then? And how do you plan on enacting it as policy?

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 09:33 AM
Yes, nanny state to the rescue. A moral values problem, this being one of many the left have managed to undermine, is one that requires people themselves take the concern enough to promote and enact better moral behavior in their own lives and encourage it in their communities. The atmosphere of social acceptability for casual pregnancies needs to be reversed as well as the "mind your business" mindset the left have pushed for decades. The old taboo against out of wedlock pregnancy needs to come back, like it or not. Will it? Not likely. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's very difficult to get back in. Those with loose values and behavior standards aren't often known to reconsider and live in a more healthy manner. They tend to resist correction, sometimes violently, especially living in a pop culture that values casual relations and general narcissism. Better parental guidance is certainly a good start, and God forbid, that just might mean more women staying at home.

Oh, and enforcing existing obscenity laws would certainly help.

I don't look for a "conservative response." Do I speak for others? No. I speak for me.

W*GS
08-04-2013, 09:51 AM
Yes, nanny state to the rescue. A moral values problem, this being one of many the left have managed to undermine, is one that requires people themselves take the concern enough to promote and enact better moral behavior in their own lives and encourage it in their communities. The atmosphere of social acceptability for casual pregnancies needs to be reversed as well as the "mind your business" mindset the left have pushed for decades. The old taboo against out of wedlock pregnancy needs to come back, like it or not. Will it? Not likely. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's very difficult to get back in. Those with loose values and behavior standards aren't often known to reconsider and live in a more healthy manner. They tend to resist correction, sometimes violently, especially living in a pop culture that values casual relations and general narcissism. Better parental guidance is certainly a good start, and God forbid, that just might mean more women staying at home.

Oh, and enforcing existing obscenity laws would certainly help.

I don't look for a "conservative response." Do I speak for others? No. I speak for me.

So, in your view, go back to making women little more than property and adjuncts to men, criminalize divorce, and make bastardy immoral. Right?

And censor porn. Because one thing we can't have is people having sex. Right?

If you don't tell me what will fix the problem as you perceive it, I'll just make it up. So, go ahead:

peacepipe
08-04-2013, 09:55 AM
Walter E. Williams,another conservative who thinks he knows It all and knows nothing.

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 10:51 AM
Walter E. Williams,another conservative who thinks he knows It all and knows nothing.

What does that have to do with Jim Crow-era marriage rates being higher than modern ones which liberals, especially, insist on attributing to "the legacy of slavery" and thus blaming society as a whole for the disintegration of the nuclear family which psychological studies shows harms children of all races?

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 10:55 AM
So, in your view, go back to making women little more than property and adjuncts to men, criminalize divorce, and make bastardy immoral. Right?

And censor porn. Because one thing we can't have is people having sex. Right?

If you don't tell me what will fix the problem as you perceive it, I'll just make it up. So, go ahead:

What I find amusing is how the same crowd of ass hats call workplace hierarchy and role fulfillment by employees as a normal way of running things but suddenly when it comes to the family having a similar structure, it's suddenly and quite magically "oppression."

Cut the ****.

Gender roles are not oppression and I don't think anyone with half a brain would say a kid raised in the daytime by daycare would be as well-adjusted and prepared for adulthood as someone with a parent at home. Too retarded.

Unsurprisingly, you are unable to discuss such things without dipping your hand into the usual lefty grab-bag of traditional gender role narratives and horror stories.

Especially as a man, and worse yet a liberal and thus emasculated one, you seriously need to shut your trap and stop telling us women what to think.

Or are you a closet misogynist :D

!Booya!

peacepipe
08-04-2013, 11:01 AM
BS. You have issues with marriage rates? Who the **** cares. That is the problem with conservatives, what difference does it make to you the marriage rates among ALL colors white,brown or black. Jim Crow?!

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db123.htm

Teen birth rates are all trending downwards for WHITES, BLACKS and LATINOS.
Besides there's no law that requires marriage in order have a child. Nor is it required to have both a mother & father for there to be a family. A single parent household is just as strong as a traditional one.

barryr
08-04-2013, 11:03 AM
Walter E. Williams,another conservative who thinks he knows It all and knows nothing.

I'll take the typical liberal way of handling such a remark: You're a racist for disagreeing with Williams since is a black man. You can go into every liberal type of forum where that is standard practice. But as also typical, the lily white liberal "gee, I once had a black friend, so that makes me an expert on the black community" think they know more about the subject than a black man.

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 11:04 AM
^ None of these liberal protestations have to do with the topic of this thread. This all seems to be deflective BS.

Perhaps you'll now be ready to at least consider that the disintegration of the nuclear family unit is not a result of slavery.

peacepipe
08-04-2013, 11:06 AM
What I find amusing is how the same crowd of ass hats call workplace hierarchy and role fulfillment by employees as a normal way of running things but suddenly when it comes to the family having a similar structure, it's suddenly and quite magically "oppression."

Cut the ****.

Gender roles are not oppression and I don't think anyone with half a brain would say a kid raised in the daytime by daycare would be as well-adjusted and prepared for adulthood as someone with a parent at home. Too retarded.

Unsurprisingly, you are unable to discuss such things without dipping your hand into the usual lefty grab-bag of traditional gender role narratives and horror stories.

Especially as a man, and worse yet a liberal and thus emasculated one, you seriously need to shut your trap and stop telling us women what to think.

Or are you a closet misogynist :D

!Booya!

LOL You have nothing but your own ignorant beliefs to back up what you're saying. Anyone with half a brain is going to recognize your post is complete BS.

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 11:06 AM
BS. You have issues with marriage rates? Who the **** cares. That is the problem with conservatives, what difference does it make to you the marriage rates among ALL colors white,brown or black. Jim Crow?!

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db123.htm

Teen birth rates are all trending downwards for WHITES, BLACKS and LATINOS.
Besides there's no law that requires marriage in order have a child. Nor is it required to have both a mother & father for there to be a family. A single parent household is just as strong as a traditional one.

Typical liberal tripe, the same kind of tripe that has been pumped into society's ears by the left since the 60s, if not sooner. As the article mentions - if you cared to read it which you don't - data and I'll add from my own experience psychological studies have shown that intact homes are healthier ones and more prosperous ones.

If you think a single parent producing kids with higher rates of poverty and delinquency is cool, then don't bitch about black poverty and juvenile mayhem.

Ever.

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 11:08 AM
LOL You have nothing but your own ignorant beliefs to back up what you're saying. Anyone with half a brain is going to recognize your post is complete BS.

That's not a response. You did know that, right? Essentially calling names and giggling: the typical liberal retort here and all over teh internetz.

Kudos. :thumbs::yayaya:

peacepipe
08-04-2013, 11:09 AM
I'll take the typical liberal way of handling such a remark: You're a racist for disagreeing with Williams since is a black man. You can go into every liberal type of forum where that is standard practice. But as also typical, the lily white liberal "gee, I once had a black friend, so that makes me an expert on the black community" think they know more about the subject than a black man.

That's a conservative response actually, "I have a black friend" defense to their own racist beliefs. Nice try though,projecting your own ignorance onto others doesn't fly.

peacepipe
08-04-2013, 11:11 AM
Typical liberal tripe, the same kind of tripe that has been pumped into society's ears by the left since the 60s, if not sooner. As the article mentions - if you cared to read it which you don't - data and I'll add from my own experience psychological studies have shown that intact homes are healthier ones and more prosperous ones.

If you think a single parent producing kids with higher rates of poverty and delinquency is cool, then don't b**** about black poverty and juvenile mayhem.

Ever.

Responding with conservative tripe isn't going to prove anything. Show us the actual data that proves your point. Walter e Williams couldn't,can you.

barryr
08-04-2013, 11:12 AM
Until the majority of the black community stops blindly being the slave to the democrat party, things will not change for them. The democrats have done diddly for them, unless keeping them in the ghettos and in poverty counts as something. High abortion rates, high crime rate, high poverty rate, high unemployment rate(oh, the white liberals really think more people have gotten great, full-time jobs all of a sudden) are not things I would be proud of. But let's face it, also for the race issue, that has to be kept alive too considering the democrats would have nothing to really run on other than more give away programs that end up helping nobody in the end. More black people are unemployed right now than ever before, and there is a black president who had a democrat controlled Congress his first 2 years and still has the Senate and nothing. You don't need more proof the democrats are full of crap.

They like to believe it's the black people who have escaped the democrats and saw the light as traitors to their race and other worse remarks, but it's those that blindly take the word of democrats with no substance as we can see(Detroit, Baltimore, among others) as those that have done the harm to themselves and their race. Truth hurts sometimes.

barryr
08-04-2013, 11:14 AM
That's a conservative response actually, "I have a black friend" defense to their own racist beliefs. Nice try though,projecting your own ignorance onto others doesn't fly.

LOL, sorry, but it's you and your liberal klan that do that, not to mention use simply disagreeing with a black person as being racist. But I know, as typical of liberals, "it's different when I do it." LOL

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 11:18 AM
Mentioning data does not equal evidence.

Yet you and yours do it all the time. Raising the bar here?

Yes. You are.

Rohirrim
08-04-2013, 11:22 AM
So, to sum up the OP argument: Liberal...blah, blah, blah... liberal... blah, blah, blah... liberal... blah, blah, blah... liberal, blah, blah, blah...


Is that it?

peacepipe
08-04-2013, 11:31 AM
LOL, sorry, but it's you and your liberal klan that do that, not to mention use simply disagreeing with a black person as being racist. But I know, as typical of liberals, "it's different when I do it." LOL

I've never implied disagreeing with someone who is black makes you a racist. BTW,point to actual examples of anyone saying that. Otherwise you're FoS as usual.

W*GS
08-04-2013, 11:52 AM
What I find amusing is how the same crowd of ass hats call workplace hierarchy and role fulfillment by employees as a normal way of running things but suddenly when it comes to the family having a similar structure, it's suddenly and quite magically "oppression."

Cut the ****.

Gender roles are not oppression and I don't think anyone with half a brain would say a kid raised in the daytime by daycare would be as well-adjusted and prepared for adulthood as someone with a parent at home. Too retarded.

Unsurprisingly, you are unable to discuss such things without dipping your hand into the usual lefty grab-bag of traditional gender role narratives and horror stories.

Especially as a man, and worse yet a liberal and thus emasculated one, you seriously need to shut your trap and stop telling us women what to think.

Or are you a closet misogynist :D

!Booya!

You just need a man to smack you around a bit and treat you like ****.

Then you'll be happy in your conservative gender role and quit being such a beeyotch.

We all know that right-wingers such as yourself think this is perfect:

http://academic.depauw.edu/aevans_web/HONR101-02/WebPages/Fall2009/Tess/Public_html/welcome%20to%20stepford2.jpg

W*GS
08-04-2013, 11:53 AM
Until the majority of the black community stops blindly being the slave to the democrat party, things will not change for them. The democrats have done diddly for them, unless keeping them in the ghettos and in poverty counts as something. High abortion rates, high crime rate, high poverty rate, high unemployment rate(oh, the white liberals really think more people have gotten great, full-time jobs all of a sudden) are not things I would be proud of. But let's face it, also for the race issue, that has to be kept alive too considering the democrats would have nothing to really run on other than more give away programs that end up helping nobody in the end. More black people are unemployed right now than ever before, and there is a black president who had a democrat controlled Congress his first 2 years and still has the Senate and nothing. You don't need more proof the democrats are full of crap.

They like to believe it's the black people who have escaped the democrats and saw the light as traitors to their race and other worse remarks, but it's those that blindly take the word of democrats with no substance as we can see(Detroit, Baltimore, among others) as those that have done the harm to themselves and their race. Truth hurts sometimes.

Those damned Negras, eh?

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 05:14 PM
So, to sum up the OP argument: Liberal...blah, blah, blah... liberal... blah, blah, blah... liberal... blah, blah, blah... liberal, blah, blah, blah...


Is that it?

I'm sorry, sir. Was it conservatives that worked overtime the past several decades to legitimize such damaging social relations?

I think not.

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 05:16 PM
You just need a man to smack you around a bit and treat you like ****.

Then you'll be happy in your conservative gender role and quit being such a beeyotch.

We all know that right-wingers such as yourself think this is perfect:

http://academic.depauw.edu/aevans_web/HONR101-02/WebPages/Fall2009/Tess/Public_html/welcome%20to%20stepford2.jpg

As usual you can't address the topic without dropping your panties and taking a steaming dump while you parrot the usual false dichotomy talking points I grew up hearing from a certain political group of people.

What's wrong with those women? Feminity frighten you?

As I said, which you expectly did not respond to, was that you liberals are all about hierarchies and roles in society and the workplace.... As long as the same are not practiced in the home.

You cannot explain the difference nor justify why this is so, you'll just keep asserting it while you throw mud at people.

Same old stupid **** out of you.

nyuk nyuk
08-04-2013, 05:21 PM
Responding with conservative tripe isn't going to prove anything. Show us the actual data that proves your point. Walter e Williams couldn't,can you.

Opinion columnists do not normally post a bibliography of their sources, and I know damned well that you do not expect as such from liberal columnists you enjoy reading.

If you wish to get off your duff and read further on the topic - which I know you have no interest nor intent of doing - feel free to get a copy of The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925 (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Family-Slavery-Freedom-1750-1925/dp/0394724518). I own a copy and I know you don't.

Read and stop blindly parroting platitudes. If you think the black family was destroyed in slavery and they've always had high out of wedlock birthrates as a result, kindly state YOUR source.

Thanks.

W*GS
08-04-2013, 05:29 PM
Same old stupid **** out of you.

You never post anything but stoopid shyte.

Of course, you've got a deluded belief that you're a female, so that puts you in the loony bin with baja and gaffe...

W*GS
08-04-2013, 05:30 PM
Was it conservatives that worked overtime the past several decades to legitimize such damaging social relations?

It was conservatives who decided that such families were "damaging" and did their best to make them so.

You guys just won't be happy until women are chattel again.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 11:12 AM
It was conservatives who decided that such families were "damaging" and did their best to make them so.

You guys just won't be happy until women are chattel again.

Back when I was a liberal Democrat, I decided to look around for laws that showed where women were chattel. I couldn't find any. All I ever did find was claims in feminist literature that women were such.

I am a woman so why would I want to be a "chattel"? Seeing modern feminism for the damaging thing it is doesn't mean I want to be locked in chains. THAT, bub, is just another worn out lefty canard.

Rohirrim
08-06-2013, 11:32 AM
Back when I was a liberal Democrat, I decided to look around for laws that showed where women were chattel. I couldn't find any. All I ever did find was claims in feminist literature that women were such.

I am a woman so why would I want to be a "chattel"? Seeing modern feminism for the damaging thing it is doesn't mean I want to be locked in chains. THAT, bub, is just another worn out lefty canard.

And yet, you support church-oriented, patriarchal, woman-in-the-kitchen tradition? ???

W*GS
08-06-2013, 11:42 AM
I am a woman [...]

Bullshyte alert.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 12:35 PM
And yet, you support church-oriented, patriarchal, woman-in-the-kitchen tradition? ???

Plenty of women cease supporting modern feminism for seeing it what it is. What's wrong with a patriarchal family structure? Men are built to be protectors and hunters, if you haven't noticed. Women are built to be bearers of children. Does that mean that's "all we're good for"? No, that's an alarmist lefty canard. It means nature has designated roles for people, heaven forbid.

As I said before, the left have no problem with the idea of a hierarchical structure and assigned roles in the workplace. They just have a problem with it in the home, for whatever nonsensical and bizarre reasons they may have, other than the usual mindless thought patterns and lack of critical analysis of one's inhaled belief system. Workplaces run well with such systems, why not the home? Oh the horror. Seriously.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 12:36 PM
Bullshyte alert.

You don't like my views therefore I am lying about my identity. Yes, yes, several of you assert this here regularly.

Oh, and that doesn't tell me anything about evidence that women were historically considered "chattel," either.

W*GS
08-06-2013, 12:44 PM
You don't like my views therefore I am lying about my identity. Yes, yes, several of you assert this here regularly.

Oh, and that doesn't tell me anything about evidence that women were historically considered "chattel," either.

A "woman" who doesn't know the history of women's rights. ****ing pathetic.

Tell me about all the women who voted in 1919.

Or the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974.

Why do you want a return to the era of women being submissive to men? Do you need a real man to smack you around so you can be a real woman?

You're an embarrassment to your gender.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 12:48 PM
A "woman" who doesn't know the history of women's rights. ****ing pathetic.

Tell me about all the women who voted in 1919.

Or the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974.

Why do you want a return to the era of women being submissive to men? Do you need a real man to smack you around so you can be a real woman?

You're an embarrassment to your gender.

An expected false dichotomy. Accept modern feminist radicalism or chain myself to a wall. I've seen this before and your trying to shift the burden to me on the history doesn't say anything other than you don't know what I was asking for.

Considering the horrid voting record of women, I've gotten to the point where I don't mind women not voting. As far as other laws, I take each one as I see it. I don't agree with all of them, lockstep. However, such laws do not make women necessarily chattel, either. The ECOA of 74 is with regard to private business dealings as opposed to an overarching system of chattel oppression specifically at the legislative level. Those are two different things.

W*GS
08-06-2013, 12:54 PM
An expected false dichotomy. Accept modern feminist radicalism or chain myself to a wall.

There's your false dichotomy.

"Modern feminist radicalism" is trog-speak for "women should be political equals to men". No wonder you hate the concept.

A real man smacking you around couldn't do any more damage to your brain, so find such a real man and get ready for some bruising.

Of course, you're not really a woman, you're just a troll who tries to pass himself off as a woman, for some odd reason. Oh, so you can spew misogynistic crap thinking you'll escape criticism for it. Pathetic and stupid, bub.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 01:21 PM
There's your false dichotomy.

"Modern feminist radicalism" is trog-speak for "women should be political equals to men". No wonder you hate the concept.

A real man smacking you around couldn't do any more damage to your brain, so find such a real man and get ready for some bruising.

Of course, you're not really a woman, you're just a troll who tries to pass himself off as a woman, for some odd reason. Oh, so you can spew misogynistic crap thinking you'll escape criticism for it. Pathetic and stupid, bub.

No, modern feminism was hijacked by leftist radicals who view their radical agenda so important that they throw legitimate issues under the bus, including the women that go with them. They're the same ones calling women who dare don't vote according to radical party line "sellouts" and worse. They're the same ones that glamorize out of wedlock parenting regardless of the damage it does to kids and regardless of the poverty which it begs for the women.

Yet again, you take their tactic and assume that because I do not espouse what you think women should - partyline liberal politics - I therefore am a fake somehow. Clearly you think women should indeed be in the kitchen as long as the kitchen is owned by the political left.

You want us to make our own choices or not?

W*GS
08-06-2013, 01:25 PM
No, modern feminism was hijacked by leftist radicals who view their radical agenda so important that they throw legitimate issues under the bus, including the women that go with them. They're the same ones calling women who dare don't vote according to radical party line "sellouts" and worse. They're the same ones that glamorize out of wedlock parenting regardless of the damage it does to kids and regardless of the poverty which it begs for the women.

Yet again, you take their tactic and assume that because I do not espouse what you think women should - partyline liberal politics - I therefore am a fake somehow. Clearly you think women should indeed be in the kitchen as long as the kitchen is owned by the political left.

You want us to make our own choices or not?

A woman who chooses to agree with today's conservatives has made the same poor choice as one who converts to Islam.

She's free to make that choice - but doing so is against her interests.

But why am I telling a fellow male all this stuff? It's of no interest to him.

You just want to spout misogynistic crap and thinking you can fool us by claiming to be a woman so you won't be called out. You're a pathetic turd.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 01:28 PM
A woman who chooses to agree with today's conservatives has made the same poor choice as one who converts to Islam.

She's free to make that choice - but doing so is against her interests.

But why am I telling a fellow male all this stuff? It's of no interest to him.

You just want to spout misogynistic crap and thinking you can fool us by claiming to be a woman so you won't be called out. You're a pathetic turd.

Don't tell me what are my interests. Furthermore, I am not a selfish dog in that my social and political views are limited to my personal selfish interests as if I were narcissistic hag.

You telling me what my interests are makes YOU the misogynist, bub. Be gone.

WOMAN POWA!

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 01:29 PM
So basically on this thread, the topic has been totally ignored and derailed without response.

Okay then. Just not let me see ANY of you liberals blame "the legacy of slavery" for everything going on in the black community like a bunch of mindless automatons.

W*GS
08-06-2013, 01:40 PM
You telling me what my interests are makes YOU the misogynist, bub. Be gone.

Why do you insist you're a woman?

It's so obvious you're not. You're just the latest iteration of one the trog trolls.

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 01:41 PM
Circular argument. Dislike my views, unable to answer my points so call me a closet male and troll. And on it goes.

W*GS
08-06-2013, 01:56 PM
Circular argument. Dislike my views, unable to answer my points so call me a closet male and troll. And on it goes.

You don't make any points.

You just rationalize your bigotry - both anti-black and anti-woman.

chadta
08-06-2013, 02:57 PM
A single parent household is just as strong as a traditional one.


:rofl:

really ?

Ill buy that a gay couple is just as good raising kids as a straight couple, it really shouldn't matter what the sex is of the 2 parental figures, but im sorry 1 does not equal 2

Requiem
08-06-2013, 03:01 PM
Nyuk got a new dictionary. Canard is her new word!

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 03:12 PM
Nyuk got a new dictionary. Canard is her new word!

Ad hominem is still your favorite tactic. All that college -- wasted!

houghtam
08-06-2013, 03:21 PM
Nyuk got a new dictionary. Canard is her new word!

Yep. It was tripe a few days ago (after he read it in one of my posts). We should keep a running tally.

:yayaya:

nyuk nyuk
08-06-2013, 03:22 PM
Yep. It was tripe a few days ago (after he read it in one of my posts). We should keep a running tally.

:yayaya:

Right. I never used the words until I heard it from Popcorn Boy. True, true. :thumbs:

houghtam
08-06-2013, 04:35 PM
Right. I never used the words until I heard it from Popcorn Boy. True, true. :thumbs:

You've been educated in many more elementary subjects than vocabulary on this board. I could probably teach you a bit on penmanship, too, but I imagine that might further test the limits of your womanly facade.

chadta
08-06-2013, 04:50 PM
You've been educated in many more elementary subjects than vocabulary on this board. I could probably teach you a bit on penmanship, too, but I imagine that might further test the limits of your womanly facade.

so nyuk nyuk really is a woman ? I thought you guys were kidding

houghtam
08-06-2013, 04:59 PM
so nyuk nyuk really is a woman ? I thought you guys were kidding

LOL not a chance.

No woman in the world talks about being a woman as much as epicnyukllamaftw does. Not even the feminists he hates so much.

Requiem
08-06-2013, 10:28 PM
Yep. It was tripe a few days ago (after he read it in one of my posts). We should keep a running tally.

:yayaya:

I would rather not. It is sad enough coming to the realization that somewhere behind a computer screen there is a nyuk nyuk.

nyuk nyuk
08-07-2013, 04:57 AM
You've been educated in many more elementary subjects than vocabulary on this board. I could probably teach you a bit on penmanship, too, but I imagine that might further test the limits of your womanly facade.

Yes, of course. Now what does this juvenile ad hominem from the usual crowd of angry boys have to do with the topic of this thread?

An attempt to intentionally derail and trying to bait into a brawl, perhaps? Yes. That tends to happen around here when people can't deal with a topic.

TonyR
08-07-2013, 06:16 AM
so nyuk nyuk really is a woman ? I thought you guys were kidding

No. "nyuk nyuk" is epicsocialism4tw, and before that dramallama.

Jason in LA
08-07-2013, 08:14 AM
When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2013, 08:24 AM
BS. You have issues with marriage rates? Who the **** cares. That is the problem with conservatives, what difference does it make to you the marriage rates among ALL colors white,brown or black. Jim Crow?!

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db123.htm

Teen birth rates are all trending downwards for WHITES, BLACKS and LATINOS.
Besides there's no law that requires marriage in order have a child. Nor is it required to have both a mother & father for there to be a family. A single parent household is just as strong as a traditional one.

Teen birth rates aren't all they're cracked up to be. Better(statistically) to be the product of a teen birth in rural Minnesota than a single parented child born to a 30 yo on the south side of Chicago.

And its not the marriage certificate that provides any benefit. Its the healthy marriage.

Rohirrim
08-07-2013, 11:06 AM
When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol

Do you think the economist who wrote the OP article is right?

Requiem
08-07-2013, 01:12 PM
When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol

What do you think of Tyler the Creator?

nyuk nyuk
08-07-2013, 01:19 PM
so nyuk nyuk really is a woman ? I thought you guys were kidding

There is what I say I am and what those who hate me say I am. Take your pick.

Requiem
08-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Majority rules, chadta. Follow your heart.

nyuk nyuk
08-07-2013, 02:11 PM
When I first read the title of this thread, I was thinking that some of y'all are really interested in black folks. Then I skim through the thread, and this isn't about black folks. lol

This is a big diversion off the topic of the thread. Liberals tend to do that when confronted with accurate data they don't like and/or that contradicts their belief system, much like a bunch of religious zealots who attack science for saying anything the Bible doesn't.

Lovely to observe, isn't it?

nyuk nyuk
08-07-2013, 02:14 PM
Majority rules, chadta. Follow your heart.

The majority here being a small clique of ticked off liberal she-males with hopelessly trampled egos and inflated senses of knowledge and self-worth.

I'll be at the Century Aurora Friday for Elysium. Care to join me?

chadta
08-07-2013, 02:14 PM
There is what I say I am and what those who hate me say I am. Take your pick.

honestly, in order to decide id have to first care, and im sorry but i dont, it matters not to me, altho i have to admit i thought you were epic dramalamas latest incarnation, just by the way you talk, its ok tho, I agree with most of what you post, just not the bat **** crazy stuff which lately has been most of it.

nyuk nyuk
08-07-2013, 02:16 PM
honestly, in order to decide id have to first care, and im sorry but i dont, it matters not to me, altho i have to admit i thought you were epic dramalamas latest incarnation, just by the way you talk, its ok tho, I agree with most of what you post, just not the bat **** crazy stuff which lately has been most of it.

I don't post here very often. There's only so long a person can watch a group of children finger paint without getting extremely bored and leaving. What have I said lately that is bat **** crazy?

NUB
08-07-2013, 10:01 PM
Comparatively speaking, and by social and economic measurements, there is not a worse group of people in the United States than the inner-city black population. Some of that is due to circumstances outside their control, but a lot of it isn't. People are people. They have agency -- they can navigate their lives how they choose and thus bear some responsibility in what happens to them more often than not. These inner-city folk are the most violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, superstitious, anti-intellectual, charity-leeching band of people I have ever come across. That's my personal experience, but it's also correlated by the crazily disproportionate statistics when it comes to figuring out what elements of our society are harmful -- i.e., the inner-city populations.

Of course, nobody says this outright. Blacks who do get railroaded into being Uncle Toms. Whites get accused of racism. Conservatives use it as a critique of liberal policies. Liberals just state it's in the penumbra of slavery's afterglow. I just look at it for what it is, which is not a particularly good thing. Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed, though ending the war on drugs would probably be a great start.

nyuk nyuk
08-07-2013, 10:08 PM
Comparatively speaking, and by social and economic measurements, there is not a worse group of people in the United States than the inner-city black population. Some of that is due to circumstances outside their control, but a lot of it isn't. People are people. They have agency -- they can navigate their lives how they choose and thus bear some responsibility in what happens to them more often than not. These inner-city folk are the most violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, superstitious, anti-intellectual, charity-leeching band of people I have ever come across. That's my personal experience, but it's also correlated by the crazily disproportionate statistics when it comes to figuring out what elements of our society are harmful -- i.e., the inner-city populations.

Of course, nobody says this outright. Blacks who do get railroaded into being Uncle Toms. Whites get accused of racism. Conservatives use it as a critique of liberal policies. Liberals just state it's in the penumbra of slavery's afterglow. I just look at it for what it is, which is not a particularly good thing. Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed, though ending the war on drugs would probably be a great start.

Having lived within 2 miles of downtown Denver since 1987, I can concur with this totally. Noticing it, of course, is a no-no. Now of course the first hostile liberal knee-jerk reaction is the false accusation that you are saying they "all" are like this.

Jason in LA
08-08-2013, 12:57 AM
Do you think the economist who wrote the OP article is right?

Well, the guy makes valid points. Very valid points. No question about that. But at the same time I don't think that certain white folks should use what he is saying to act as if white America does not have anything to do with the situation that black people are in now.

Now, let me make this clear. I am not blaming white America for black people's problems. Black people need to be accountable for themselves. But lets not act like black people did all of this stuff to themselves.

I'm always conflicted on this topic, and I try to be as objective as possible. So I put the blame on both sides. When I have this conversation with black folks, especially those who blame white people, they try to act like I'm defending white folks, or question my blackness. When I have this conversation with white folks (usually on a message board), and I point out things that white America has done to create this situation, people act as if I won't hold black people accountable and that I'll always take the black angle.

Neither side can take all of the blame, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, in a nut shell, is that many of the problems that plague the black community, were created several generations ago by a racist country. Black folks were set up to fail. I believe Malcolm X said something like that there is a vicious cycle where a black person grows up in a poor environment, gets a poor education, which leads to a poor job when he/she grows up, and then their kids grow up in the same poor environment, and the cycle just repeats itself. Well, who started this cycle? It can be traced back to 250 or so years of slavery, and then the 100 years of segregation.

Okay, but since the Civil Rights era this country has made great strides toward equality. We certainly aren't there yet, but things are way better than before. There is no legal segregation. But yet these cycles continue. Well, that's where black people of today have to be more accountable. Can't really blame the white America, or the government, or The Man, or whoever to the same degree. Everybody has a chance. It's still not an equal chance (especially when looking at the education in poor areas), but there is nothing stopping anybody today. Black folks today are shooting themselves in the foot. They aren't taking advantage of opportunities presented, and they don't value education. Well, not that there is a good education for us in a lot of cases, but even in hood schools, if a student applies him/herself, they can get a good education. But that's where a major problem is. Can we really expect a kid, who probably doesn't have a father in the home and an uneducated mother, to really figure out how to get a good education on their own? Yeah, come on folks. That **** ain't happening.

I've been a part of mentoring programs, and have gone to elementary schools to give presentations on what I do for a career, and talk about the value of education. Dealing with the black kids, especially in the hood schools, it's a losing battle. I hate to say it, but some of these kids have very little hope. They are a part of a cycle that they do not know how to get themselves out of, and if there isn't an adult there with them on a daily basis to help them get out of that cycle, they'll end up with a poor education, and probably turn to a life of crime and have children out of wedlock. A few people here and there showing up at school to promote education isn't going to do much of anything, because the messages that stick come from home, with a parent who is with the kids every day.

The school systems suck really bad in poor areas, and now there aren't as many after school programs for these kids because of budget cuts. So what are these kids supposed to do? Where do they go? They hang out in the streets. They join gangs, they have kids at an early age.

Money needs to be pumped into poor areas. Not just black areas, because I'm pretty sure a lot of these same problems happen in white poor areas, and poor areas of all races. It's almost like poor people are being told to figure it out themselves, and if they can't get their **** together, it's all their faults. Well in black communities, the origin of these problems really didn't start with us. But we certainly keep them going.

Bottom line, there is no one group that should take all, or the bulk of the blame. But everybody should be accountable. And there should be an effort from everybody to solve the problems with people in poor areas.

Jason in LA
08-08-2013, 01:00 AM
What do you think of Tyler the Creator?

I've never heard of him. I just googled him. I'll listen to a few of his songs.

Jason in LA
08-08-2013, 01:08 AM
Comparatively speaking, and by social and economic measurements, there is not a worse group of people in the United States than the inner-city black population. Some of that is due to circumstances outside their control, but a lot of it isn't. People are people. They have agency -- they can navigate their lives how they choose and thus bear some responsibility in what happens to them more often than not. These inner-city folk are the most violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, superstitious, anti-intellectual, charity-leeching band of people I have ever come across. That's my personal experience, but it's also correlated by the crazily disproportionate statistics when it comes to figuring out what elements of our society are harmful -- i.e., the inner-city populations.

Of course, nobody says this outright. Blacks who do get railroaded into being Uncle Toms. Whites get accused of racism. Conservatives use it as a critique of liberal policies. Liberals just state it's in the penumbra of slavery's afterglow. I just look at it for what it is, which is not a particularly good thing. Absolutely no idea how it can be fixed, though ending the war on drugs would probably be a great start.

There is truth to that. And I would say that is true about poor people in general. Those same issues are present in poor people of every race.

The thing that frustrates me is that those issues defines the black race, and not other races that deal with similar issues. Now it can be said that those issues happen to a higher degree in the black community than other races. But that doesn't mean that the entire race is made up of a bunch of murderers, thieves, and druggies. There are a whole lot of black people who abide by the law, raise their children, have jobs. But the perception is that those type of black people are few and far between. That's what annoys me abut the entire debate.

TonyR
08-08-2013, 06:06 AM
...And I would say that is true about poor people in general. Those same issues are present in poor people of every race.

Exactly. This isn't an African American thing. It's a poverty thing. And yes, there is some difference between the urban poor and rural poor. But a "black ghetto" isn't really all that different from a "hispanic/latino ghetto", for example. This is about the cycle of poverty, a cycle that's always been extremely difficult to get out of and has probably gotten more difficult to escape.

Requiem
08-08-2013, 12:51 PM
The majority here being a small clique of ticked off liberal she-males with hopelessly trampled egos and inflated senses of knowledge and self-worth.

I'll be at the Century Aurora Friday for Elysium. Care to join me?

Only if you follow my rules.

nyuk nyuk
08-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Well, the guy makes valid points. Very valid points. No question about that. But at the same time I don't think that certain white folks should use what he is saying to act as if white America does not have anything to do with the situation that black people are in now.

Now, let me make this clear. I am not blaming white America for black people's problems. Black people need to be accountable for themselves. But lets not act like black people did all of this stuff to themselves.


How is black out of wedlock births the fault of white society if black out of wedlock birthrates were far lower before the civil rights movement?

nyuk nyuk
08-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Only if you follow my rules.

What rules, pet? Aren't you stuck up in the Dakotas?

nyuk nyuk
08-08-2013, 02:14 PM
Exactly. This isn't an African American thing. It's a poverty thing. And yes, there is some difference between the urban poor and rural poor. But a "black ghetto" isn't really all that different from a "hispanic/latino ghetto", for example. This is about the cycle of poverty, a cycle that's always been extremely difficult to get out of and has probably gotten more difficult to escape.

Then why were black out of wedlock birthrates far lower in the Jim Crow era?

Rohirrim
08-08-2013, 02:25 PM
Well, the guy makes valid points. Very valid points. No question about that. But at the same time I don't think that certain white folks should use what he is saying to act as if white America does not have anything to do with the situation that black people are in now.

Now, let me make this clear. I am not blaming white America for black people's problems. Black people need to be accountable for themselves. But lets not act like black people did all of this stuff to themselves.

I'm always conflicted on this topic, and I try to be as objective as possible. So I put the blame on both sides. When I have this conversation with black folks, especially those who blame white people, they try to act like I'm defending white folks, or question my blackness. When I have this conversation with white folks (usually on a message board), and I point out things that white America has done to create this situation, people act as if I won't hold black people accountable and that I'll always take the black angle.

Neither side can take all of the blame, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, in a nut shell, is that many of the problems that plague the black community, were created several generations ago by a racist country. Black folks were set up to fail. I believe Malcolm X said something like that there is a vicious cycle where a black person grows up in a poor environment, gets a poor education, which leads to a poor job when he/she grows up, and then their kids grow up in the same poor environment, and the cycle just repeats itself. Well, who started this cycle? It can be traced back to 250 or so years of slavery, and then the 100 years of segregation.

Okay, but since the Civil Rights era this country has made great strides toward equality. We certainly aren't there yet, but things are way better than before. There is no legal segregation. But yet these cycles continue. Well, that's where black people of today have to be more accountable. Can't really blame the white America, or the government, or The Man, or whoever to the same degree. Everybody has a chance. It's still not an equal chance (especially when looking at the education in poor areas), but there is nothing stopping anybody today. Black folks today are shooting themselves in the foot. They aren't taking advantage of opportunities presented, and they don't value education. Well, not that there is a good education for us in a lot of cases, but even in hood schools, if a student applies him/herself, they can get a good education. But that's where a major problem is. Can we really expect a kid, who probably doesn't have a father in the home and an uneducated mother, to really figure out how to get a good education on their own? Yeah, come on folks. That **** ain't happening.

I've been a part of mentoring programs, and have gone to elementary schools to give presentations on what I do for a career, and talk about the value of education. Dealing with the black kids, especially in the hood schools, it's a losing battle. I hate to say it, but some of these kids have very little hope. They are a part of a cycle that they do not know how to get themselves out of, and if there isn't an adult there with them on a daily basis to help them get out of that cycle, they'll end up with a poor education, and probably turn to a life of crime and have children out of wedlock. A few people here and there showing up at school to promote education isn't going to do much of anything, because the messages that stick come from home, with a parent who is with the kids every day.

The school systems suck really bad in poor areas, and now there aren't as many after school programs for these kids because of budget cuts. So what are these kids supposed to do? Where do they go? They hang out in the streets. They join gangs, they have kids at an early age.

Money needs to be pumped into poor areas. Not just black areas, because I'm pretty sure a lot of these same problems happen in white poor areas, and poor areas of all races. It's almost like poor people are being told to figure it out themselves, and if they can't get their **** together, it's all their faults. Well in black communities, the origin of these problems really didn't start with us. But we certainly keep them going.

Bottom line, there is no one group that should take all, or the bulk of the blame. But everybody should be accountable. And there should be an effort from everybody to solve the problems with people in poor areas.

Wow! Going all heavy and ****. ;D Thanks for the in depth response. I agree that the current situation was born in hundreds of years of slavery and a hundred more years of Jim Crow. The economics follow the bigotry. Unfortunately, nothing evolves more slowly than consciousness, and that's the only way out of it.

There are both blatant, and subtle lines of prejudice running through, not just America, but all of mankind. In most countries, the darker you are, the lower you go on the social totem poll. This seems to be a recurrent, human theme. For one of the subtle lines, let's face it, until JFK, every one of our presidents was a WASP. That is still the dominant culture in America's top economic percentile. Every day you can see an example of that leftover Puritan streak raising its ugly head in judgment of others. We can't seem to get it out of our system no matter how "pluralistic" we try to get as a nation. Look at the backlash against Obama's presidency from some quarters? Anybody who thinks race is not a component of that is living in a fantasy.

On the economic side, I just think humans are hard-wired to default into hierarchical systems. We praise the rich and abandon the poor. We can't seem to shed our primordial king-of-the-hill social modeling. For the last thirty years we have watched this chasm of inequality open and done nothing about it. We've supported the candidates and policies that made it happen. Listen to half the people in government now (especially on the Right) and you hear them passing moral judgment on the poor. Why? So they can abandon them without guilt.

In the poor community (and not just black), it is ten times harder to get things done. That's just a fact. Yes, the community must step up. Yes, the parents must step up. But it's not a fight they can win alone. And if they feel the leadership of the country has abandoned them, it's just another burden they must carry forward. They must have hope. If they see that chasm of inequality just getting wider and wider and their hope getting smaller and smaller, you can expect more defeats and fewer victories. Do people think those single mothers don't want a man in the house, helping her raise her family? Think those men don't want jobs that give them pride in themselves and support them staying in their homes? Poverty dismantles social mores. That's just a fact.

For those who haven't seen it, I post it again. This is what is happening in America, folks. This is what we must address:

<iframe src="http://embed.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

nyuk nyuk
08-08-2013, 02:30 PM
I agree that the current situation was born in hundreds of years of slavery and a hundred more years of Jim Crow. The economics follow the bigotry. Unfortunately, nothing evolves more slowly than consciousness, and that's the only way out of it.

Oboy! The Narrative!

According to The Narrative, black out of wedlock birth rates have always been high, due to The Legacy of Slavery. However in reality as has already been shown on this thread, that assertion is a load of horse ****.

Blaming society is the first thing liberals do and they rarely bother looking at the facts. What a shame.

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 02:38 PM
I think when it comes to the inner city, white flight has brought back many of the practical problems of segregation.

And School choice maybe isn't the answer in and of itself. But you have to start with the kids. And throwing more money at the problem, if not to give those kids other options, is essentially doing nothing.

Those pockets of desperation need to be broken up. I can't think of any more realistic way (long term) to do it than getting the kids out of there often enough to see what the world around them really looks like.

Rohirrim
08-08-2013, 02:50 PM
Oboy! The Narrative!

According to The Narrative, black out of wedlock birth rates have always been high, due to The Legacy of Slavery. However in reality as has already been shown on this thread, that assertion is a load of horse ****.

Blaming society is the first thing liberals do and they rarely bother looking at the facts. What a shame.

I knew before I posted it that as far as you were concerned, it would be like watering the rocks in my garden and expecting something to grow out of them.

nyuk nyuk
08-08-2013, 03:29 PM
I knew before I posted it that as far as you were concerned, it would be like watering the rocks in my garden and expecting something to grow out of them.

I'm merely reiterating that statistical data doesn't support The Narrative. It simply doesn't. Furthermore, since the early 20th century, out of wedlock births for ALL races have increased. Please refer to this book for info (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3887619&postcount=25) on historical black family data, and you'll see what I am referring to.

Everyone's getting hit. Families of all races are disintegrating.

As I have said before, if you guys are going to insist on pointing fingers of blame at society, at least do some damned research first. Is this too much ask??!

Arkie
08-08-2013, 04:15 PM
I knew before I posted it that as far as you were concerned, it would be like watering the rocks in my garden and expecting something to grow out of them.

Racism is hard-wired into some people at an early age. I just except their limited minds and move on. Life is more enjoyable to take in all the diversity. The only purpose of these threads is to stir the pot of racism. Misery enjoys company. It will take a few generations for racism to die out. The newer generations are less racist overall.

Rohirrim
08-08-2013, 04:35 PM
I'm merely reiterating that statistical data doesn't support The Narrative. It simply doesn't. Furthermore, since the early 20th century, out of wedlock births for ALL races have increased. Please refer to this book for info (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3887619&postcount=25) on historical black family data, and you'll see what I am referring to.

Everyone's getting hit. Families of all races are disintegrating.

As I have said before, if you guys are going to insist on pointing fingers of blame at society, at least do some damned research first. Is this too much ask??!

Glaringly obvious that you couldn't be bothered to watch the video I posted. Your "damned research" is right there.

Jason in LA
08-08-2013, 05:53 PM
How is black out of wedlock births the fault of white society if black out of wedlock birthrates were far lower before the civil rights movement?

I never stated that black out of wedlock births is the fault of the white society. I made several points in my statement, many of which were eluding to black people having to be accountable for their own situation. It seems to me that you, and I'm assuming that you are a white person, but I could be wrong, are trying to act as if white America has nothing to do with the state of black America. As a black person, I'll say that black America has greatly contributed to the situation, and is continuing the cycle of poverty and everything that comes with that. But lets not act like none of this has anything to do with this country's past, or that black America is the sole reason for this. And I'm not just talking about things that happened a few hundred years ago. That would also include things that have happened during the lifetime of a good amount of the current U.S. population.

Requiem
08-08-2013, 06:13 PM
What rules, pet? Aren't you stuck up in the Dakotas?

First rule is look pretty. Do you pass?

If you are white -- I am not interested.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:11 AM
I think when it comes to the inner city, white flight has brought back many of the practical problems of segregation.

And School choice maybe isn't the answer in and of itself. But you have to start with the kids. And throwing more money at the problem, if not to give those kids other options, is essentially doing nothing.

Those pockets of desperation need to be broken up. I can't think of any more realistic way (long term) to do it than getting the kids out of there often enough to see what the world around them really looks like.

What?

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:12 AM
First rule is look pretty. Do you pass?

If you are white -- I am not interested.

Too late, the movie was yesterday. You'd have liked the idiotic leftwing theme of Elysium.

I pass on pretty, but I'm white. If you don't like white chicks, I'd suggest a move out of the Dakotas.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:14 AM
Glaringly obvious that you couldn't be bothered to watch the video I posted. Your "damned research" is right there.

Considering I posted my source on page 1 and you ignored it, your whining here is pretty funny. It clearly shows that black marriage rates were higher during Jim Crow years. Considering that, then, blaming the dissolution of the black family on segregation or "the legacy of slavery" is a load of ****. It's not hard to figure out.

Economic inequality has NOTHING to do with the decline of black marriage rates, unless you're idiotic enough to think they made more money in Jim Crow than they make now?

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:18 AM
I never stated that black out of wedlock births is the fault of the white society. I made several points in my statement, many of which were eluding to black people having to be accountable for their own situation. It seems to me that you, and I'm assuming that you are a white person, but I could be wrong, are trying to act as if white America has nothing to do with the state of black America. As a black person, I'll say that black America has greatly contributed to the situation, and is continuing the cycle of poverty and everything that comes with that. But lets not act like none of this has anything to do with this country's past, or that black America is the sole reason for this. And I'm not just talking about things that happened a few hundred years ago. That would also include things that have happened during the lifetime of a good amount of the current U.S. population.

I take issue with people who point fingers externally first and never bother to look in the mirror first.

Whites have not been the ones to discourage black children from staying in school. That is a longterm mindset in which black children are told that to go to school is to "act white" and "get a white man's education."

Consider that black Americans are the most prosperous and educated black people on the planet, yet somehow their condition is one of unending misery attributed to white people, even while people immigrate here from places like Ethiopia and open businesses nearly right away. Sorry I don't buy structural oppression lefty meme.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:19 AM
Racism is hard-wired into some people at an early age. I just except their limited minds and move on. Life is more enjoyable to take in all the diversity. The only purpose of these threads is to stir the pot of racism. Misery enjoys company. It will take a few generations for racism to die out. The newer generations are less racist overall.

I found this mentality common when I was a liberal and I always thought it odd. Conflict of groups be they ethnic, racial, religious, or otherwise, has always existed in one form or another. If you seriously think this is going away or will going away, I have a tropical island in Antarctica to sell you.

TonyR
08-10-2013, 10:19 AM
I like how nyuk nyuk is still pretending to be "a chick". :rofl: Probably fun for him since it's the most intimate he ever gets with one.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:28 AM
Neither side can take all of the blame, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. The way I see it, in a nut shell, is that many of the problems that plague the black community, were created several generations ago by a racist country. Black folks were set up to fail. I believe Malcolm X said something like that there is a vicious cycle where a black person grows up in a poor environment, gets a poor education, which leads to a poor job when he/she grows up, and then their kids grow up in the same poor environment, and the cycle just repeats itself. Well, who started this cycle? It can be traced back to 250 or so years of slavery, and then the 100 years of segregation.

What does any of this external blame-gaming have to do with high black dropout rates?

they don't value education.


Well there you go. Value education, stop dropping out, finish your studies and see how much you financially struggle. Until then, stick a sock in it with your blaming.



Can we really expect a kid, who probably doesn't have a father in the home and an uneducated mother, to really figure out how to get a good education on their own? Yeah, come on folks. That **** ain't happening.

Actually yes. I grew up in such a situation as did many people in this country of various races. I didn't suck my thumb. I didn't cry. I didn't blame society. I got a full time job and went to part-time college.

The biggest disservice you can do to anyone is to accept their self-pity and excuse-making for why they don't lift a finger for themselves.


The school systems suck really bad in poor areas, and now there aren't as many after school programs for these kids because of budget cuts. So what are these kids supposed to do? Where do they go? They hang out in the streets. They join gangs, they have kids at an early age.

If living in a poor area is related to educational success, I'd like to know why people come over here from places like India with graduate degrees in mathematics. Even poor districts in the US have it much better off than third world countries do. They are spoiled brats in comparison. I had a trigonometry professor from India who described conditions in which students had to work with other there. You have no concept, and you're using poverty as an excuse. Apply yourself and focus on your studies, and it doesn't matter how poor you are.

As far as after school programs, would they need them if the economy wasn't so undermined that both parents had to work (if both parents were around) thus leaving the kids to rot at home alone or in daycare with strangers? I don't think so. I didn't need an after school program to stop me from behaving like a hoodlum.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:29 AM
I like how nyuk nyuk is still pretending to be "a chick". :rofl: Probably fun for him since it's the most intimate he ever gets with one.

Off topic ad hominem. We have a certified MENSA member here, folks.

TonyR
08-10-2013, 10:32 AM
If living in a poor area is related to educational success, I'd like to know why people come over here from places like India with graduate degrees in mathematics.

It's generally the wealthier from countries like India who come here and succeed. India has an outstanding education system for those with wealth and/or those in a higher caste.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 10:43 AM
It's generally the wealthier from countries like India who come here and succeed. India has an outstanding education system for those with wealth and/or those in a higher caste.

Outstanding? Their textbooks come from a list of books they can choose from a library that have the same general content as the class syllabus because they don't have textbooks to give out. Americans have never had to do such a thing as their textbook though I have done it as a helpful supplement. They also have one final exam at the end of the year which is their only exam, no quizzes at all. How's that for pressure?

TonyR
08-10-2013, 11:09 AM
Outstanding? ...

LOL So, the wealthy and/or higher caste people leave India highly educated but their whole education system sucks?

Rohirrim
08-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Considering I posted my source on page 1 and you ignored it, your whining here is pretty funny. It clearly shows that black marriage rates were higher during Jim Crow years. Considering that, then, blaming the dissolution of the black family on segregation or "the legacy of slavery" is a load of ****. It's not hard to figure out.

Economic inequality has NOTHING to do with the decline of black marriage rates, unless you're idiotic enough to think they made more money in Jim Crow than they make now?

I didn't ignore it. It's an economist citing some numbers and making a few mild conclusions based on those numbers and then you hysterically extrapolating those opinions into much more than even William's argument. He's an economist. Ever notice that Exxon Mobil's number one spokesman against AGW is a geologist? What does an economist know about history, or the social sciences? Is it because he's black that you add freight to his opinion?

Obviously, your hysteria doesn't allow you to critically take in the opinions of others. If you read my post you would see that I said these problems were "...born in..." slavery and Jim Crow, which is undeniable. Unless you simply want to ignore history in service of, once again, blind Right Wing ideological dogma. Were you this dogmatic when you were a Marxist?

Black poverty and the decline of black marriage and the black teenage birth rate and black violence and racism has just got to be the fault of blacks, doesn't it? This is one of the foundational principles of Right Wing thought (if you can call it that): Everybody is to blame for their own situation. If you are failing, it simply means you are not working hard enough. If your wages keep dropping relative to the rest of the economy, it means you are losing value, and rightfully so. Otherwise, that might mean it's something else, like income inequality, like a society that is not working, like a glaring failure of capitalism to solve all our problems. It would mean that capitalism is not perfect. And to the Right Wingers, that idea is heresy.

You're like the geologist focusing in on the microclimate and ignoring the macroclimate. It's snowing, ergo global warming doesn't exist. Take a few minute to watch the video. Richard Wilkenson is a Professor Emeritus of Social Epidemiology at the University of Nottingham, not an economist dabbling in social science.

Rohirrim
08-10-2013, 11:26 AM
Even poor districts in the US have it much better off than third world countries do.

And you can thank seventy years of progressive politics for that. Otherwise, we'd be no different than Rio, which is where the Right Wing wants us to go back to; castles surrounded by slums. Politics created the middle class in America, and politics is taking it apart.

Arkie
08-10-2013, 11:30 AM
I like how nyuk nyuk is still pretending to be "a chick". :rofl: Probably fun for him since it's the most intimate he ever gets with one.

He's the same guy as angryllama/epicsocialism4TW. They have the same writing style, views, sense of humor, or lack thereof. So many others have noticed this too. We all notice different things, but taken together as a group, we can be sure it's the same guy.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:36 AM
And you can thank seventy years of progressive politics for that. Otherwise, we'd be no different than Rio, which is where the Right Wing wants us to go back to; castles surrounded by slums. Politics created the middle class in America, and politics is taking it apart.

Mass migration of cheap uneducated foreign labor is what is wrecking the middle class, dude, and Democrats are the main culprit in pushing its continuance in the form of amnesty. If the "right wing" are the big evil culprits here, I'd love to know why they're some 90% of the opposition to amnesty?

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:38 AM
He's the same guy as angryllama/epicsocialism4TW. They have the same writing style, views, sense of humor, or lack thereof. So many others have noticed this too. We all notice different things, but taken together as a group, we can be sure it's the same guy.

What I see is a small circle of angry liberals with rabies disliking my views and using as a tactic to discredit them without addressing them rumors and feminine gossip tales about my being some guy in Texas.

Apparently this includes you.

Gossip is clearly yet another characteristic of the emasculated, feminine modern liberal male.

Rohirrim
08-10-2013, 11:43 AM
Mass migration of cheap uneducated foreign labor is what is wrecking the middle class, dude, and Democrats are the main culprit in pushing its continuance in the form of amnesty. If the "right wing" are the big evil culprits here, I'd love to know why they're some 90% of the opposition to amnesty?

So, now we're going from "It's the black peoples' fault" to "It's the brown peoples' fault." :rofl:

BTW, "mass migration of cheap uneducated foreign labor" is what built America.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:45 AM
I didn't ignore it. It's an economist citing some numbers and making a few mild conclusions based on those numbers and then you hysterically extrapolating those opinions into much more than even William's argument. He's an economist. Ever notice that Exxon Mobil's number one spokesman against AGW is a geologist? What does an economist know about history, or the social sciences? Is it because he's black that you add freight to his opinion?

Obviously, your hysteria doesn't allow you to critically take in the opinions of others. If you read my post you would see that I said these problems were "...born in..." slavery and Jim Crow, which is undeniable. Unless you simply want to ignore history in service of, once again, blind Right Wing ideological dogma. Were you this dogmatic when you were a Marxist?

Black poverty and the decline of black marriage and the black teenage birth rate and black violence and racism has just got to be the fault of blacks, doesn't it? This is one of the foundational principles of Right Wing thought (if you can call it that): Everybody is to blame for their own situation. If you are failing, it simply means you are not working hard enough. If your wages keep dropping relative to the rest of the economy, it means you are losing value, and rightfully so. Otherwise, that might mean it's something else, like income inequality, like a society that is not working, like a glaring failure of capitalism to solve all our problems. It would mean that capitalism is not perfect. And to the Right Wingers, that idea is heresy.

You're like the geologist focusing in on the microclimate and ignoring the macroclimate. It's snowing, ergo global warming doesn't exist. Take a few minute to watch the video. Richard Wilkenson is a Professor Emeritus of Social Epidemiology at the University of Nottingham, not an economist dabbling in social science.

None of this has dick to do with the topic of this thread or the facts of the previous relative health of the black family in comparison to today. That being said, how was the modern massive black out of wedlock birth rate "born in slavery or Jim Crow"? Clearly you're full of it. Clearly even more that in the same span of time, out of wedlock birth rates for all races in this country - including whites - has increased.

I don't think it's unfair of me to expect people to look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others and blaming society, but unfortunately, liberals in general react in anger whenever I have the audacity to suggest such a thing.

If you wish to focus on the economic health of the American worker, I've already posted two US government sources - from liberal US administrations - discussing how poor border control and massive immigration of even legal unskilled workers is undercutting American working class wages. Want to help these people out? Stop importing cheaper replacements so they can have a job and have one paying at a higher rate in a job market that doesn't have artificially deflated wages due to the massive influx of cheaper labor that Americans can't compete with.

Capitalism is one thing. Unethical, predatory capitalism is another.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:46 AM
So, now we're going from "It's the black peoples' fault" to "It's the brown peoples' fault." :rofl:

Both the Clinton and Obama administrations have released reports stating the negative impact of mass migration on working class American wages. I guess in your eyes, then, Clinton and Obama "blame the brown people."

Rohirrim
08-10-2013, 11:50 AM
None of this has dick to do with the topic of this thread or the facts of the previous relative health of the black family in comparison to today. That being said, how was the modern massive black out of wedlock birth rate "born in slavery or Jim Crow"? Clearly you're full of it. Clearly even more that in the same span of time, out of wedlock birth rates for all races in this country - including whites - has increased.

I don't think it's unfair of me to expect people to look in the mirror before pointing fingers at others and blaming society, but unfortunately, liberals in general react in anger whenever I have the audacity to suggest such a thing.

If you wish to focus on the economic health of the American worker, I've already posted two US government sources - from liberal US administrations - discussing how poor border control and massive immigration of even legal unskilled workers is undercutting American working class wages. Want to help these people out? Stop importing cheaper replacements so they can have a job and have one paying at a higher rate in a job market that doesn't have artificially deflated wages due to the massive influx of cheaper labor that Americans can't compete with.

Capitalism is one thing. Unethical, predatory capitalism is another.

Those at the top are having no problems whatsoever. In fact, since this recession hit, their incomes have gone up - some as much as 21%. CEO pay has increased by 400% in the last thirty years. Workers' pay has either held steady in single percentage growth numbers or declined. First we look at the microcosm. Than we look at the macrocosm. I have no problems with that. You seem to get hysterical about it. Of course, you've always been the drama llama, eh?

Rohirrim
08-10-2013, 11:53 AM
Both the Clinton and Obama administrations have released reports stating the negative impact of mass migration on working class American wages. I guess in your eyes, then, Clinton and Obama "blame the brown people."

Hey. Maybe you're right. Since the only jobs America can produce anymore are in hotel service and fast food, we might have a problem here. And since Clinton is probably more responsible than any one man for sending so many of America's good jobs offshore, I imagine he'd like to divert attention away. He was always a master at that.

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:58 AM
Hey. Maybe you're right. Since the only jobs America can produce anymore are in hotel service and fast food, we might have a problem here. And since Clinton is probably more responsible than any one man for sending so many of America's good jobs offshore, I imagine he'd like to divert attention away. He was always a master at that.

Both parties have conspired to do it as they are both conspiring to bring tidal waves of unskilled labor here which Americans are having difficulty competing with. However it is now that the GOP is actually doing a better service for unskilled American workers as they are the main force against amnesty.

What would Detroit be today if car manufacturing hadn't moved to Mexico?

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 11:59 AM
Those at the top are having no problems whatsoever. In fact, since this recession hit, their incomes have gone up - some as much as 21%. CEO pay has increased by 400% in the last thirty years. Workers' pay has either held steady in single percentage growth numbers or declined. First we look at the microcosm. Than we look at the macrocosm. I have no problems with that. You seem to get hysterical about it. Of course, you've always been the drama llama, eh?

I understand that but we aren't importing millions of CEOs.

Rohirrim
08-10-2013, 12:23 PM
I understand that but we aren't importing millions of CEOs.

Face the facts: Two and a half billion people reside in India and China. Slightly over 300 million reside in the U.S., just over ten percent. Global corporatism is abandoning America, and its workforce, to cater to the needs of those much larger populations. That's where the money is. That's why they keep raking in more and more as the American worker falls farther and farther behind; Their investment base is internationalized. And soon, it will probably be tax free.

Since they also happen to own the U.S. government, the economic policies they write and hand over to their government lackies for implementation are designed to enable the success of this strategy. A major facet of this strategy is reducing the American labor force to the same level of China's and India's. And they don't give a **** whether you are of African, Mexican or European descent.

And what are the Chinese doing with all that American wealth being shoveled into their coffers? Why, they're buying up America, piece by piece.

In a December 2012 report, the committee said that it "judges with moderate confidence that there is likely a coordinated strategy among one or more foreign governments or companies to acquire U.S. companies involved in research, development, or production of critical technologies for which the United States is a leading producer." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/money-chinese-investments-us/story?id=19347795

In other words, Americans are being sold out. Think of the black community as the canary in the coal mine. Like the video shows, as the income inequality climbs the process of ghetto-ization expands outward. Since America already has the worst income inequality in the industrialized world, how much farther can it go? ???

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Perfect example here. Thomas Sowell grew up in Harlem in the 1940s and attended college in which people in his very poor neighborhood likewise attended college and was coming out doctors, lawyers, etc. He addresses reasons for this and why today it is different.

This is a far more involved issue than simply laying the usual "legacy of slavery" narrative on it and blaming society.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JaXxeK7NHjs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

nyuk nyuk
08-10-2013, 12:47 PM
Face the facts: Two and a half billion people reside in India and China. Slightly over 300 million reside in the U.S., just over ten percent. Global corporatism is abandoning America, and its workforce, to cater to the needs of those much larger populations. That's where the money is. That's why they keep raking in more and more as the American worker falls farther and farther behind; Their investment base is internationalized. And soon, it will probably be tax free.

I disagree here. American buying power is still far higher and the abandonment of the US is due to ultracheap labor overseas from which massive profits can be extracted. Nike is a perfect example. Those countries with little exception are quite poor and as such have far less buying power than we do. What they DO have is a ****load of desperate people ripe to be exploited. And yes, international investment in these countries tends to be near tax free or tax free with much less environmental or worker protection, thus making it even more lucrative.

I believe in capitalism BUT I do not believe in unethical, unpatriotic predatory capitalism.


Since they also happen to own the U.S. government, the economic policies they write and hand over to their government lackies for implementation are designed to enable the success of this strategy. A major facet of this strategy is reducing the American labor force to the same level of China's and India's. And they don't give a **** whether you are of African, Mexican or European descent.

I don't think they own the government but I do think there needs to be massive reforms in the lobbying business in this country. All too many American politicians are on friendly terms with the Chicoms. I'm not even sure where to draw the line on all this. I think on an ethical level for reasons of loyalty to US workers and as a moral stand against a repressive Marxist regime should disinvest from China, but at the same time, our government is not known to control industry, either, and doing so can be very dangerous.


And what are the Chinese doing with all that American wealth being shoveled into their coffers? Why, they're buying up America, piece by piece.

Yes business in China to my understanding is basically governmental enterprises with top-level bigwigs in the government living lavishly off the profits produced by average Chinese who make very little. China is turning into an environmental disaster due to the lack of protections and protesters of such projects are often met with military force.

In a December 2012 report, the committee said that it "judges with moderate confidence that there is likely a coordinated strategy among one or more foreign governments or companies to acquire U.S. companies involved in research, development, or production of critical technologies for which the United States is a leading producer." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/money-chinese-investments-us/story?id=19347795

Doesn't surprise me. They've long engaged in industrial espionage, hacking, etc. One thing Marx said was true: The capitalist will sell you the rope for which you'll hang him with. This is what happens when intelligent means to defend our economic and military infrastructure are being abandoned or neglected. And it'll undoubtedly only get worse. An unregulated economic free for all is not only unethical, it's also suicidal.

In other words, Americans are being sold out. Think of the black community as the canary in the coal mine. Like the video shows, as the income inequality climbs the process of ghetto-ization expands outward. Since America already has the worst income inequality in the industrialized world, how much farther can it go? ???

Yes we are being sold out and black Americans are being hit the hardest. Income inequality in and of itself isn't evil, but I think rather the way it has come about. Someone with no education should not make as much money as someone with a graduate degree, but at the same time we should not be seeing people lose jobs to cheaper foreign labor or outsourcing, either, and there is no way to stop this without government controlling the economy so we are basically ****ed, I think.