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TonyR
07-26-2013, 11:46 AM
When a law is enacted, representatives who opposed it have some choices (which are not mutually exclusive). They can try to repeal it, which is perfectly acceptable—unless it becomes an effort at grandstanding so overdone that it detracts from other basic responsibilities of governing. They can try to amend it to make it work better—not just perfectly acceptable but desirable, if the goal is to improve a cumbersome law to work better for the betterment of the society and its people. They can strive to make sure that the law does the most for Americans it is intended to serve, including their own constituents, while doing the least damage to the society and the economy. Or they can step aside and leave the burden of implementation to those who supported the law and got it enacted in the first place.

But to do everything possible to undercut and destroy its implementation—which in this case means finding ways to deny coverage to many who lack any health insurance; to keep millions who might be able to get better and cheaper coverage in the dark about their new options; to create disruption for the health providers who are trying to implement the law, including insurers, hospitals, and physicians; to threaten the even greater disruption via a government shutdown or breach of the debt limit in order to blackmail the president into abandoning the law; and to hope to benefit politically from all the resulting turmoil—is simply unacceptable, even contemptible. One might expect this kind of behavior from a few grenade-throwing firebrands. That the effort is spearheaded by the Republican leaders of the House and Senate—even if Speaker John Boehner is motivated by fear of his caucus, and McConnell and Cornyn by fear of Kentucky and Texas Republican activists—takes one’s breath away. http://www.nationaljournal.com/columns/washington-inside-out/the-unprecedented-and-contemptible-attempts-to-sabotage-obamacare-20130724

TonyR
07-26-2013, 11:48 AM
It’s bad enough to just not care all that much if the U.S. has a large uninsured population. But if there’s an excuse for encouraging people who have the means to remain uninsured, I can’t fathom it.

It almost goes without saying that this effort is being undertaken to keep younger, healthier people out of the exchanges, and send the individual insurance market into an adverse-selection “death spiral.” That would ruin the system for people who want the help Obamacare offers them. And so the campaign effectively amounts to asking people to continue putting their well-being and livelihoods at risk for the good of the cause of keeping health care for sick people unaffordable. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/07/undeniable_sabotage.php

TonyR
07-26-2013, 11:49 AM
So not only are they going to be encouraging people to break the law, they're literally going to be encouraging people not to buy health insurance. Nice. I wonder if FreedomWorks plans to help out the first person who takes them up on this and then contracts leukemia? I'm guessing probably not.

What's next? A campaign to get people to skip wearing seat belts? To skip using baby seats in cars? To skip vaccinations for their kids? It's times like this that words fail those of us with a few remaining vestiges of human decency. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/freedomworks-plans-push-persuade-people-not-get-health-insurance

Pony Boy
07-26-2013, 12:07 PM
Humm ..... maybe not just the GOP


Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios'

Last Thursday, representatives of three of the nation’s largest unions fired off a letter to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, warning that Obamacare would “shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/15/labor-leaders-obamacare-will-shatter-their-health-benefits-cause-nightmare-scenarios/

BroncoBeavis
07-26-2013, 01:18 PM
But to do everything possible to undercut and destroy its implementation—which in this case means finding ways to deny coverage to many who lack any health insurance; to keep millions who might be able to get better and cheaper coverage in the dark about their new options;

What's super awesome is when this kind of rhetoric is used to paint those who opposed the mandate as having blood on their hands, but when the President unilaterally ignores the law and sets part of the mandate aside himself to avoid it impacting an election cycle, it's just because he's just a popular pragmatist. LOL

BroncoBeavis
07-26-2013, 01:22 PM
Humm ..... maybe not just the GOP


Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios'

Last Thursday, representatives of three of the nation’s largest unions fired off a letter to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, warning that Obamacare would “shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/15/labor-leaders-obamacare-will-shatter-their-health-benefits-cause-nightmare-scenarios/

Even the IRS employees union (the people enforcing the OCare mandate) want no part of it.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/26/irs-union-dont-put-tax-collectors-into-o

LOL

Tone's just trying to get out in front of this historic clusterfark with a stream of excuses so his fan-club belief system will be allowed to bash on regardless.

Rohirrim
07-26-2013, 03:44 PM
Like Patrick Moynihan pointed out, you want to fix the problem of health care in the U.S.? Simply erase the age limit in Medicare.

baja
07-26-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: The OP

One can only hope so.

Rohirrim
07-26-2013, 04:04 PM
When the first, black president was elected, a corp group of Republicans, primarily from the South, swore that they would destroy his presidency. I don't see that anything has changed, as far as that goes.

errand
07-26-2013, 07:56 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vdnY8r7_fLw?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

barryr
07-26-2013, 08:54 PM
Obamacare will destroy the economy and will make premiums go up(gee, some of us said it would happen), and more jobs are going part time to avoid having to pay the high costs, but it's republicans fault even though backroom deals with democrats(Nelson)were involved in this and republicans weren't even brought to the table on it. Good grief, liberals are stupid and never stop this rewriting of history. But what do you expect from people that keep voting for a guy who thinks we have 57 states?

barryr
07-26-2013, 09:17 PM
Oh, the irony. "Have to pass it to see what's in it." Yeah, how did that work out?

"In order to ensure Americans understand how to access the benefits available to them when many provisions of the Affordable Care Act go online October 1, the Obama administration announced last month that it is setting up a call center that will be accessible to Americans 24 hours a day."

"One branch of that call center will be located in California’s Contra Costa County, where, reportedly, 7,000 people applied for the 204 jobs. According to the Contra Costa Times, however, “about half the jobs are part-time, with no health benefits — a stinging disappointment to workers and local politicians who believed the positions would be full-time.” The county supervisor, Karen Mitchoff, called the hiring process “a comedy of errors” and said she “never dreamed [the jobs] would be part-time.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/354556/obamacare-call-center-will-not-offer-healthcare-benefits-employees-eliana-johnson

Marshall Dumervil
07-26-2013, 09:59 PM
Tell you what, my buddy was born with 2 bad kidneys. His 1st transplant bankrupted his family. Of course, it wasn't covered by insurance because it was preexisting. **** that. He got his 2nd kidney a few months ago, fortunately it was covered.

Anyone that wants to bash Obamacare can kiss my ass.

baja
07-26-2013, 10:08 PM
When the first, black president was elected, a corp group of Republicans, primarily from the South, swore that they would destroy his presidency. I don't see that anything has changed, as far as that goes.

Actually he beat them to it.

Missouribronc
07-26-2013, 10:40 PM
Who is going to pay for this? Employers are going to stop providing health care. That's the bottom line. So who is going to pay for all the people going on the government's dime?

Meck77
07-26-2013, 10:45 PM
$85,000,000,000 per month being printed up each month just to try and keep this economy going. They hinted at stopping it and the markets tanked.

16 trillion in debt last I check. It probably 17 now.......

Is there anyone here that feels like they aren't paying enough taxes already? Anyone want to pay more?

baja
07-26-2013, 10:53 PM
You taxes go to pay the bankers interest on the money it creates out of nothing and lends to the federal government. JFK said hey why do we borrow fake money from the bankers(Federal Reserve) when we can print it ourselves. So he did and 5 months later he was shot to death. When are you going to figure out the bankers are the problem? How do you manage to be so obtuse?

pricejj
07-26-2013, 11:19 PM
Who is going to pay for this? Employers are going to stop providing health care. That's the bottom line. So who is going to pay for all the people going on the government's dime?

The middle class.







OP is complete and utter garbage.

TonyR
08-06-2013, 02:39 PM
For conservatives, freedom is always coupled with personal responsibility. Your right to be free from government interference is also an implicit statement that you can take care of yourself – and won’t at some point suddenly change your mind. This is the core of conservative libertarianism: an assertion of radical independence, responsibility and self-sufficiency.

In many areas, this makes perfect sense – but healthcare isn’t one of them. Disease and accident make no distinctions among us. And since 1986, hospitals have been legally required to treat anyone seriously ill who presents himself at an emergency room, with clear medical needs. In the most fundamental way, that was the moment the US socialized medicine – and Ronald Reagan signed the bill. Alas, like so many Reagan domestic initiatives, there was no federal money provided to pay for this. And we all know what happened next: all those extra costs for the uninsured drove up premiums for everyone else, drove up hospital costs, giving them a reason to raise prices even further, and played a role in rendering healthcare unaffordable for many others.

What Obamacare does, like Romneycare before it, is end this free-loading.

The law is telling these young adults that if you want to go without insurance, you are not going to make everyone else pay for it if your risk-analysis ends up faulty. You have to exercise a minimum of personal responsibility to pay for your own potential healthcare. In other words, rights come with responsibilities in a liberal democracy. At least that is what I always understood the conservative position to be. http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/08/05/since-when-was-free-loading-a-conservative-value/

Rigs11
08-06-2013, 03:02 PM
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/08/05/since-when-was-free-loading-a-conservative-value/

great piece, the righties are always talking about free loading yet all they can do is whine.or let people starve.christians they are.:rofl:

Pony Boy
08-06-2013, 05:59 PM
great piece, the righties are always talking about free loading yet all they can do is whine.or let people starve.christians they are.:rofl:

Oh yes a great article written by a fagot from England ........ how about at least find an Article written by an American.

Andrew Sullivan –

Andrew was born in August 1963 and grew up in East Grinstead, West Sussex, England. He attended Reigate Grammar School, and Magdalen College, Oxford, where he took a First in Modern History and Modern Languages. He was also President of the Oxford Union, and spent his summer vacations as an actor in the National Youth Theatre of Great Britain.

In 1989, Sullivan wrote the first national cover-story in favor of marriage equality, and subsequently an essay, “The Politics of Homosexuality” in The New Republic in 1993, an article the Nation called the most influential of the decade in the gay rights movement. In 1995, he published his first book, “Virtually Normal,” a case for marriage equality, which was translated into a five languages. He testified against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, edited an anthology, “Same-Sex Marriage: Pro and Con” and toured the country campaigning on the issue. His second book, ‘Love Undetectable: Notes on Friendship, Sex, and Survival,’ was published in 1998 in the United States and Britain. Sullivan tested positive for HIV in 1993, and remains in good health. In 2006, he published “The Conservative Soul,” a critique of the direction of the American right in the new millennium. In 2007, he was one of the first political writers to champion the presidential campaign of Barack Obama and his cover-story for the Atlantic, “Why Obama Matters”, was regarded as a mile-stone in that campaign’s messaging.


http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/about/

TonyR
08-06-2013, 06:35 PM
Oh yes a great article written by a fagot from England ........ how about at least find an Article written by an American.


Seriously? So you're a proud bigot? Bet you're a big Riley Cooper fan. You gonna start throwing around the N-word next? Do you think you're somehow better than homosexuals and the British?

elsid13
08-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Oh yes a great article written by a fagot from England ........ how about at least find an Article written by an American.

Andrew Sullivan –

Andrew was born in August 1963 and grew up in East Grinstead, West Sussex, England. He attended Reigate Grammar School, and Magdalen College, Oxford, where he took a First in Modern History and Modern Languages. He was also President of the Oxford Union, and spent his summer vacations as an actor in the National Youth Theatre of Great Britain.

In 1989, Sullivan wrote the first national cover-story in favor of marriage equality, and subsequently an essay, “The Politics of Homosexuality” in The New Republic in 1993, an article the Nation called the most influential of the decade in the gay rights movement. In 1995, he published his first book, “Virtually Normal,” a case for marriage equality, which was translated into a five languages. He testified against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, edited an anthology, “Same-Sex Marriage: Pro and Con” and toured the country campaigning on the issue. His second book, ‘Love Undetectable: Notes on Friendship, Sex, and Survival,’ was published in 1998 in the United States and Britain. Sullivan tested positive for HIV in 1993, and remains in good health. In 2006, he published “The Conservative Soul,” a critique of the direction of the American right in the new millennium. In 2007, he was one of the first political writers to champion the presidential campaign of Barack Obama and his cover-story for the Atlantic, “Why Obama Matters”, was regarded as a mile-stone in that campaign’s messaging.


http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/about/


Sullivan is process of becoming an American citizen. He is United States Permanent Resident working his way to full citizenship.

Pony Boy
08-06-2013, 08:21 PM
Sullivan is process of becoming an American citizen. He is United States Permanent Resident working his way to full citizenship.

Yes an HIV positive Homosexual from England that has a hard on for Obamacare on his way to becoming an American citizen......... is this a great country or what?

Rohirrim
08-06-2013, 08:36 PM
Oh yes a great article written by a fagot from England ........ how about at least find an Article written by an American.

:spit:

elsid13
08-06-2013, 08:48 PM
Yes an HIV positive Homosexual from England that has a hard on for Obamacare on his way to becoming an American citizen......... is this a great country or what?

Yes it is.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

TonyR
08-06-2013, 09:11 PM
Yes an HIV positive Homosexual from England that has a hard on for Obamacare on his way to becoming an American citizen......... is this a great country or what?

What does his sexual orientation or his nationality have to do with anything? And why shouldn't he be allowed to become an American? I'll ask again: do you think you're somehow better than him?

Pony Boy
08-06-2013, 09:40 PM
Yes it is.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

right unless the golden door is on the border with Mexico........

The Lone Bolt
08-06-2013, 09:48 PM
Oh yes a great article written by a fagot from England ........ how about at least find an Article written by an American.

Regardless of his citizenship or sexual orientation, he's right. That's why you're focusing on his citizenship and sexual orientation instead of his points.

Pony Boy
08-06-2013, 10:01 PM
What does his sexual orientation or his nationality have to do with anything? And why shouldn't he be allowed to become an American? I'll ask again: do you think you're somehow better than him?

Yes I do and if that hurts your feelings I really don't give a crap.

Requiem
08-06-2013, 11:03 PM
Beetus.

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2013, 12:24 AM
Regardless of his citizenship or sexual orientation, he's right. That's why you're focusing on his citizenship and sexual orientation instead of his points.

False Premise. LOL

I like how a system designed around the healthy young (and poor) subsidizing the sick old (and rich) is framed by Sully as the height of personal accountability. Proof he can brilliantly form any opinion he wants on any set of facts, and his groupies will relentlessly lap it up.

TonyR
08-07-2013, 07:05 AM
Yes I do and if that hurts your feelings I really don't give a crap.

How and why are you better? He's far more educated. He makes substantially more money. What is your measuring stick?

As for my feelings, lol. I feel sorry for you if anything.

houghtam
08-07-2013, 07:13 AM
How and why are you better? He's far more educated. He makes substantially more money. What is your measuring stick?

As for my feelings, lol. I feel sorry for you if anything.

LOL

But...but...Dr. Brownstain says Pony Boy's one of the most successful people he knows!

Rohirrim
08-07-2013, 08:12 AM
Yes it is.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

The liberals put that up.

Pony Boy
08-07-2013, 08:28 AM
How and why are you better? He's far more educated. He makes substantially more money. What is your measuring stick?

As for my feelings, lol. I feel sorry for you if anything.


Well I wouldn't bet the farm on that statement but tell me what his yearly income is just for fun?

Sullivan appears regularly on the Colbert Report and Real Time with Bill Maher on television and continues his weekly column for the Sunday Times. He lives with his husband and two hound dogs in New York City and Provincetown, Massachusetts.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/about/

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2013, 08:36 AM
Well I wouldn't bet the farm on that statement but tell me what his yearly income is just for fun?

Sullivan appears regularly on the Colbert Report and Real Time with Bill Maher on television and continues his weekly column for the Sunday Times. He lives with his husband and two hound dogs in New York City and Provincetown, Massachusetts.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/about/

Haha. Provincetown. That's awesome. LOL

TonyR
08-07-2013, 08:37 AM
^ Even in the unlikely event that you do make more money than he does, how are you "better"? Better because you're not gay? Better because you're American? You're avoiding the larger question here. You've exposed yourself as a bigot (at least to those who hadn't already figured it out) and you're trying to dodge it. Please, tell us, how/why are you better?

Pony Boy
08-07-2013, 12:21 PM
^ Even in the unlikely event that you do make more money than he does, how are you "better"? Better because you're not gay? Better because you're American? You're avoiding the larger question here. You've exposed yourself as a bigot (at least to those who hadn't already figured it out) and you're trying to dodge it. Please, tell us, how/why are you better?

What I exposed is the author of your article on Obama care is nothing more than a shill for the Obama administration. He is also nothing more than an HIV positive homosexual that is living here in the U.S. waiting to become a citizen so he can have his pre-existing health condition covered by Obamacare. Maybe he should have uses his educational skills and not had un-protected butt-sex with his Aids’ infected boyfriend.

Rohirrim
08-07-2013, 12:22 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7dKpHtc9F9M?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pony Boy
08-07-2013, 12:55 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7dKpHtc9F9M?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Classic......... "We threw England out of here a long time ago .....and for your information "England is a fag country".

God Bless Old Archie Bunker ...........:rofl:

elsid13
08-07-2013, 03:16 PM
The liberals put that up.

Only way they could commit voter fraud.

The Lone Bolt
08-07-2013, 03:24 PM
False Premise. LOL

I like how a system designed around the healthy young (and poor) subsidizing the sick old (and rich) is framed by Sully as the height of personal accountability. Proof he can brilliantly form any opinion he wants on any set of facts, and his groupies will relentlessly lap it up.

So you prefer a system in which the uninsured get treated in ERs and stick the rest of us with the bill?

Rigs11
08-07-2013, 03:39 PM
pony is a serious homophobe. You know what they say about them?:rofl:

Rigs11
08-07-2013, 03:40 PM
So you prefer a system in which the uninsured get treated in ERs and stick the rest of us with the bill?

yep, then they have something else to complain about.debt.

houghtam
08-07-2013, 04:06 PM
yep, then they have something else to complain about.debt.

Don't forget minorities and poor people. And the lack of morals these days. And the immigrants. And the kids on their lawn (provided they're not mowing it).

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2013, 04:15 PM
So you prefer a system in which the uninsured get treated in ERs and stick the rest of us with the bill?

My mechanic gets stiffed on bills. My waiter gets stiffed on tabs. My utility company gets stiffed on payments. My mortgage bank gets stiffed on loans. In all cases, ultimately we all pay the cost.

I've never heard anyone advocating that everything should be insured on everything so nobody assumes any risk. Life is a risk. This equality above all else mindset doesn't add up.

Regardless, no coherent argument can be made that Obamacare is really about unpaid hospital visit. Those are only a small part of the problem with health care (costing about $40 billion annually). The feds could simply cut hospitals a check for all those visits and save 75% over what Obamacare is going to cost.

houghtam
08-07-2013, 05:14 PM
My mechanic gets stiffed on bills. My waiter gets stiffed on tabs. My utility company gets stiffed on payments. My mortgage bank gets stiffed on loans. In all cases, ultimately we all pay the cost.

I've never heard anyone advocating that everything should be insured on everything so nobody assumes any risk. Life is a risk. This equality above all else mindset doesn't add up.

Regardless, no coherent argument can be made that Obamacare is really about unpaid hospital visit. Those are only a small part of the problem with health care (costing about $40 billion annually). The feds could simply cut hospitals a check for all those visits and save 75% over what Obamacare is going to cost.

Yeah. Six figure hospital bills = a $20 tab at Denny's.

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2013, 05:58 PM
Yeah. Six figure hospital bills = a $20 tab at Denny's.

Proportions matter little when your stated goal is nationalizing risk in a multi-trillion dollar industry.

Oh, and like I said, the Feds are spending $170 billion a year to 'solve' the problem that by most estimates costs the health care industry $40 billion.

Oh, and that's to reduce the number of uninsured from 45ish million to 30 million. Meaning there will still be tons and tons of uncompensated care.

baja
08-07-2013, 06:08 PM
Proportions matter little when your stated goal is nationalizing risk in a multi-trillion dollar industry.

Especially when the system supports continued sickness by treating symptoms and ignoring the root causes.

baja
08-07-2013, 06:09 PM
Had a heart attack did ya? We'll give ya a triple bypass. Here have some jello and a burger with cheese.

misturanderson
08-08-2013, 08:27 AM
Had a heart attack did ya? We'll give ya a triple bypass. Here have some jello and a burger with cheese.

Do you honestly believe that there is no discussion with patients about changing eating habits after a heart attack? Pretty sure that is a mainstay of the education one would get from their doctor. Whether ir not the person follows that advice is completely up to them.

B-Large
08-08-2013, 08:35 AM
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/08/05/since-when-was-free-loading-a-conservative-value/

this about sums up how I feel on the matter.

B-Large
08-08-2013, 08:37 AM
Do you honestly believe that there is no discussion with patients about changing eating habits after a heart attack? Pretty sure that is a mainstay of the education one would get from their doctor. Whether ir not the person follows that advice is completely up to them.

In general, once a person has a heart attack or bypass surgery, they tend to seek out better habits out of fear. The question is the eficacy of such behavior in people who become complacent, even though they have stents, new vascular materials in their ticker or have other inteventions.

B-Large
08-08-2013, 08:39 AM
Who is going to pay for this? Employers are going to stop providing health care. That's the bottom line. So who is going to pay for all the people going on the government's dime?

Individuals are still expected to pay for their individual policies purchased on State exchanges. If you are referring to subsidies, ist tax payer money... but the subsidies are not easy to get is you maintain a decent income.

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 08:40 AM
this about sums up how I feel on the matter.

"Hey Broke Kids. You should pay extra for that Health Insurance you wouldn't normally buy anyway. Because old people get sick. And Because Conservative."

Not sure Sully knows what that word means anymore. LOL

B-Large
08-08-2013, 08:45 AM
"Hey Broke Kids. You should pay extra for that Health Insurance you wouldn't normally buy anyway. Because old people get sick. And Because Conservative."

Not sure Sully knows what that word means anymore. LOL

Yes, because everyone else should have to pay for the irresponsiblity of young people... what's the word the GOP like to use... socialism.... yep, that it

I am tired of paying for young TAKERS, I am a mid-thirties MAKER who has always had health insurance and I am tired of it. Time for them to pull up the bootstraps and take Personal Reponsibility for themselves... at 26 you are an adult, and will be treated as such.

I threw in the Rhetorcial Buzzwords, get it now?

B-Large
08-08-2013, 08:53 AM
False Premise. LOL

I like how a system designed around the healthy young (and poor) subsidizing the sick old (and rich) is framed by Sully as the height of personal accountability. Proof he can brilliantly form any opinion he wants on any set of facts, and his groupies will relentlessly lap it up.

Do you own home?
Do you drive a car?
Do you have a wife and kids?

Cause if you do, you likely carry Home Owner's, Autombile and Life Insurance. Do you realize you will likely pay a lifetime and almost never utilize the beneifts of these (you are paying in), but others are taking from that pool of money you all funded to cover their loses? Do you feel secure that is your castle burns to ground, it wil be rebuilt for you, if you car is totaled the insurance company will replace it, if you dies your wife will be able to fund your kids education? Are these things you consider bad?

If these are considered good, as most rational people, why the double standard for health insurance?

B-Large
08-08-2013, 08:56 AM
pony is a serious homophobe. You know what they say about them?:rofl:

they love Penis?

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 08:59 AM
Yes, because everyone else should have to pay for the irresponsiblity of young people... what's the word the GOP like to use... socialism.... yep, that it

I am tired of paying for young TAKERS, I am a mid-thirties MAKER who has always had health insurance and I am tired of it. Time for them to pull up the bootstraps and take Personal Reponsibility for themselves... at 26 you are an adult, and will be treated as such.

I threw in the Rhetorcial Buzzwords, get it now?

See, here's the point you're missing. Young people aren't being asked to pay the honest actuarial cost of their care. They're being asked to pay far above what their own coverage would cost to make up for the slack of older, sicker people being allowed to pay less.

And regardless of how much intergenerational theft we think will finally break the camel's back, the reality of the situation is that they simply won't sign up for it. Things would have to get much more coercive for that to happen. And I don't think the powers that be have the political stomach for that.

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 09:08 AM
Do you own home?
Do you drive a car?
Do you have a wife and kids?

Cause if you do, you likely carry Home Owner's, Autombile and Life Insurance. Do you realize you will likely pay a lifetime and almost never utilize the beneifts of these (you are paying in), but others are taking from that pool of money you all funded to cover their loses?

I own a home. I generally drive ****ty old cars that I fully own and carry liability only.. Not because I couldn't do better. But because I choose to sacrifice to minimize my costs. And I pay less based on the reality of my own personal risk decisions.

This is nothing like the mandate. What they expect you to pay has nothing to do with you and what you choose, or might be expected to cost. In fact, what you pay is basically a political decision. Obamacare is a reckless scheme that basically outsources the concept of a socialized payment (or maybe single payer) system. In reality it's the worst of both private and public sector solutions. And it will fall apart. Because solutions based on wishful thinking always do.

Rigs11
08-08-2013, 09:21 AM
Especially when the system supports continued sickness by treating symptoms and ignoring the root causes.

ahhh yes....remember when that evil mayor limited the size of our big gulps? or how about when that evil michelle obama pushed for healthier meals and exercise? Damn evil gubmint! Taking our freedoms away!:rofl:


A closer look at why child obesity rates may be falling

If the USA is starting to get a handle on childhood obesity, as federal health officials said Tuesday, what might we finally be doing right?

Three trends are being held up by health experts as encouraging developments: programs to get kids to exercise more, such as first lady Michelle Obama's Let's Move campaign; an increase in breast-feeding; and improvements in the nutritional content of foods provided to low-income women and children by the federal government.Thomas Frieden, director of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, cited all three examples in a news briefing announcing small but significant declines in obesity among low-income preschoolers in 18 states from 2008 to 2011.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130808/FEATURES08/308080069/A-closer-look-at-why-child-obesity-rates-may-be-falling

Rohirrim
08-08-2013, 09:40 AM
ADHD started exploding in the child population right around the time we started cutting recess and physical education out of our schools. ADHD is linked to dopamine shortages in the brain. Exercise stimulates dopamine production. Big Pharma makes billions selling ritalin and other drugs for ADHD. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

misturanderson
08-08-2013, 09:45 AM
In general, once a person has a heart attack or bypass surgery, they tend to seek out better habits out of fear. The question is the eficacy of such behavior in people who become complacent, even though they have stents, new vascular materials in their ticker or have other inteventions.

Yes, but they are educated on the better habits by their doctor. They are not fed cheeseburgers while they are recovering from surgery as Baja implies. If they become complacent and slip back into old habits, that's on them.

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 09:55 AM
ahhh yes....remember when that evil mayor limited the size of our big gulps? or how about when that evil michelle obama pushed for healthier meals and exercise? Damn evil gubmint! Taking our freedoms away!:rofl:

Can't believe anyone's willing to defend that uberdouche. LOL

Archer81
08-08-2013, 10:04 AM
ahhh yes....remember when that evil mayor limited the size of our big gulps? or how about when that evil michelle obama pushed for healthier meals and exercise? Damn evil gubmint! Taking our freedoms away!:rofl:


A closer look at why child obesity rates may be falling

If the USA is starting to get a handle on childhood obesity, as federal health officials said Tuesday, what might we finally be doing right?

Three trends are being held up by health experts as encouraging developments: programs to get kids to exercise more, such as first lady Michelle Obama's Let's Move campaign; an increase in breast-feeding; and improvements in the nutritional content of foods provided to low-income women and children by the federal government.Thomas Frieden, director of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, cited all three examples in a news briefing announcing small but significant declines in obesity among low-income preschoolers in 18 states from 2008 to 2011.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130808/FEATURES08/308080069/A-closer-look-at-why-child-obesity-rates-may-be-falling


Child obesity rates started falling in 2003. The FLOTUS did not begin her program until 2010. So...yeah.

:Broncos:

Archer81
08-08-2013, 10:19 AM
Do you own home?
Do you drive a car?
Do you have a wife and kids?

If I do not own a home, I am not required to have home owner's insurance. If I do not own a car, I am not required to have auto insurance. If I am not married or have children, I am not required to carry life insurance policies.

I am required to have "satisfactory" health insurance. If it is not satisfactory to some faceless blob at the IRS, I could face fines and be enrolled in a bastardized version of medicare. If I live in a rural area, and no doctor nearby will take medicare, I then get to truck on out to Colorado Springs and Denver until I find that doctor, which increases the cost to me. But hey. I have health insurance. Woo.

:Broncos:

Rigs11
08-08-2013, 11:08 AM
Child obesity rates started falling in 2003. The FLOTUS did not begin her program until 2010. So...yeah.

:Broncos:

I think I'll take Thomas Frieden's word over yours.:thumbs:

Rigs11
08-08-2013, 11:10 AM
Can't believe anyone's willing to defend that uberdouche. LOL

Yep, you compalin because we spend too much money on health insurance..blah..blah..blah.. then when someone tries to regulate soda, which is horrible for you, you still complain.Must suck to be a rightie.

Archer81
08-08-2013, 11:59 AM
I think I'll take Thomas Frieden's word over yours.:thumbs:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/12/25/early-childhood-obesity-rates-might-be-slowing-nation-wide/

Pertinent section:

A subtle but important shift in early childhood obesity rates in this low-income population seems to have begun in 2003. Obesity rates increased from 13.05 percent in 1998 to 15.21 percent in 2003. Soon, however, obesity rates began decreasing, reaching 14.94 percent by 2010. Extreme obesity followed a similar pattern, increasing from 1.75 percent to 2.22 percent from 1998 to 2003, but declining to 2.07 percent by 2010.

You're welcome.

:Broncos:

baja
08-08-2013, 12:17 PM
Yes, but they are educated on the better habits by their doctor. They are not fed cheeseburgers while they are recovering from surgery as Baja implies. If they become complacent and slip back into old habits, that's on them.

Really? Go check a hospital food tray sometime, you will not find a lot of healthy food there.

baja
08-08-2013, 12:20 PM
ahhh yes....remember when that evil mayor limited the size of our big gulps? or how about when that evil michelle obama pushed for healthier meals and exercise? Damn evil gubmint! Taking our freedoms away!:rofl:


A closer look at why child obesity rates may be falling

If the USA is starting to get a handle on childhood obesity, as federal health officials said Tuesday, what might we finally be doing right?

Three trends are being held up by health experts as encouraging developments: programs to get kids to exercise more, such as first lady Michelle Obama's Let's Move campaign; an increase in breast-feeding; and improvements in the nutritional content of foods provided to low-income women and children by the federal government.Thomas Frieden, director of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, cited all three examples in a news briefing announcing small but significant declines in obesity among low-income preschoolers in 18 states from 2008 to 2011.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130808/FEATURES08/308080069/A-closer-look-at-why-child-obesity-rates-may-be-falling

Well I am certainly willing to do my part I volunteer for breast feeding, where do i sign up?

baja
08-08-2013, 12:23 PM
Do you honestly believe that there is no discussion with patients about changing eating habits after a heart attack? Pretty sure that is a mainstay of the education one would get from their doctor. Whether ir not the person follows that advice is completely up to them.


The tragedy is there is very little emphasis on preventive medicine. There is no money in it. you gotta be sick before your doctor gets paid.

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 01:13 PM
Yep, you compalin because we spend too much money on health insurance..blah..blah..blah.. then when someone tries to regulate soda, which is horrible for you, you still complain.Must suck to be a rightie.

LOL Man, that's one fundamentally unprincipled slope you kids are slicking.

How 'bout federal cafeterias, or mass calisthenics?

Your logic could be used to ban just about anything

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-24/oral-sex-linked-virus-risks-causing-esophageal-cancer.html

Is the concept of individual liberty completely lost here?

Rigs11
08-08-2013, 01:38 PM
LOL Man, that's one fundamentally unprincipled slope you kids are slicking.

How 'bout federal cafeterias, or mass calisthenics?

Your logic could be used to ban just about anything

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-24/oral-sex-linked-virus-risks-causing-esophageal-cancer.html

Is the concept of individual liberty completely lost here?

i know you're kinda slow, but it was baja that said that the system doesn't address the causes, i brought up 2 examples where the system did. As usual you go apeshet with your orwellian bs.

Mr.Meanie
08-08-2013, 01:47 PM
What I exposed is the author of your article on Obama care is nothing more than a shill for the Obama administration. He is also nothing more than an HIV positive homosexual that is living here in the U.S. waiting to become a citizen so he can have his pre-existing health condition covered by Obamacare. Maybe he should have uses his educational skills and not had un-protected butt-sex with his Aids’ infected boyfriend.

Can't tell if this is expert trolling or just bottom feeding ignorance...

Rigs11
08-08-2013, 01:48 PM
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/12/25/early-childhood-obesity-rates-might-be-slowing-nation-wide/

Pertinent section:

A subtle but important shift in early childhood obesity rates in this low-income population seems to have begun in 2003. Obesity rates increased from 13.05 percent in 1998 to 15.21 percent in 2003. Soon, however, obesity rates began decreasing, reaching 14.94 percent by 2010. Extreme obesity followed a similar pattern, increasing from 1.75 percent to 2.22 percent from 1998 to 2003, but declining to 2.07 percent by 2010.

You're welcome.

:Broncos:

Background: The prevalence of obesity among U.S. preschoolers has doubled in recent decades. Childhood obesity increases the risk for adult obesity and is associated with negative health consequences. Trends in the state-specific prevalence of obesity among low-income U.S. preschool children have not been examined since 2008. State-specific obesity prevalence surveillance helps determine the need for and impact of state and local obesity prevention strategies.

During 2008–2011, statistically significant downward trends in obesity prevalence were observed in 18 states and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Florida, Georgia, Missouri, New Jersey, South Dakota, and the U.S. Virgin Islands had the largest absolute decreases in obesity prevalence, each with a decrease of ≥1 percentage point. Twenty states and Puerto Rico experienced no significant change, and obesity prevalence increased significantly in three states.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6231a4.htm?s_cid=mm6231a4_w

TonyR
08-08-2013, 02:01 PM
Can't tell if this is expert trolling or just bottom feeding ignorance...

Unfortunately all signs point to the latter.

Archer81
08-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Trends in the state-specific prevalence of obesity among low-income U.S. preschool children have not been examined since 2008.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6231a4.htm?s_cid=mm6231a4_w


You should have probably kept reading.

Other reports on young children (7,8)* have used data from CDC's Pediatric Nutrition Surveillance System (PedNSS); one report showed that among 44 states/territories during 2003–2008 nine showed a significant decline in obesity, 24 showed significant increases, and 11 showed no statistically significant change (7).

The article you posted USES the report as a source I told you about.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5828a1.htm

So this means 1 of 2 things. 1. The FLOTUS is taking credit for something she had nothing to do with, and as we know the Obamas NEVER do that.

Or 2. Most of the decrease occurred before the first lady decided to micromanage what school children eat in federally funded meal programs.

Again, you are welcome.

:Broncos:

Rigs11
08-08-2013, 03:14 PM
You should have probably kept reading.

Other reports on young children (7,8)* have used data from CDC's Pediatric Nutrition Surveillance System (PedNSS); one report showed that among 44 states/territories during 2003–2008 nine showed a significant decline in obesity, 24 showed significant increases, and 11 showed no statistically significant change (7).

The article you posted USES the report as a source I told you about.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5828a1.htm

So this means 1 of 2 things. 1. The FLOTUS is taking credit for something she had nothing to do with, and as we know the Obamas NEVER do that.

Or 2. Most of the decrease occurred before the first lady decided to micromanage what school children eat in federally funded meal programs.

Again, you are welcome.

:Broncos:

The latest study shows 19 states. last i checked 19 is more than 9.Keep trying though.This is funny. i can see you fuming over your keyboard trying so hard not to give credit where credit is due, and screaming "damn tou liberals!":rofl:


Michelle Obama's Let's Move! campaign. The first lady had pushed kids to eat healthy and exercise more, and thousands of child care centers have adopted the message. She's held nationwide healthy cooking contests for kids and agencies like the Department of Education have incorporated her message into their programs. And the date of her tenure in the White House corresponds roughly with the scope of the federal study.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/childhood-obesity-poor-kids/story?id=19905261

BroncoBeavis
08-08-2013, 03:21 PM
The latest study shows 19 states. last i checked 19 is more than 9.Keep trying though.This is funny. i can see you fuming over your keyboard trying so hard not to give credit where credit is due, and screaming "damn tou liberals!":rofl:


Michelle Obama's Let's Move! campaign. The first lady had pushed kids to eat healthy and exercise more, and thousands of child care centers have adopted the message. She's held nationwide healthy cooking contests for kids and agencies like the Department of Education have incorporated her message into their programs. And the date of her tenure in the White House corresponds roughly with the scope of the federal study.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/childhood-obesity-poor-kids/story?id=19905261

So what you're saying is that a program that started in 2010 deserves the credit for a (minuscule) trend occurring from 2008-2011 that was otherwise in line with other longer-standing trends? Is this the kind of "science" you guys are always going on and on about? :)

TonyR
08-11-2013, 02:15 PM
An effort by Democrats to fix a glitch under Obamacare that harms small churches is widely expected to be blocked by Republicans, in what would be the latest example of GOP efforts to undermine President Obama’s signature legislative achievement by refusing to fix technical problems encountered during implementation. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/obamacare-fix-churches-coons-pryor.php

The Lone Bolt
08-12-2013, 01:30 AM
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/obamacare-fix-churches-coons-pryor.php

:oyvey:

Marks my words: this hardcore drive to sabotage and completely repeal the PPACA is going to blow up in republican's faces.

gunns
08-12-2013, 09:09 AM
Obamacare will destroy the economy and will make premiums go up(gee, some of us said it would happen), and more jobs are going part time to avoid having to pay the high costs, but it's republicans fault even though backroom deals with democrats(Nelson)were involved in this and republicans weren't even brought to the table on it. Good grief, liberals are stupid and never stop this rewriting of history. But what do you expect from people that keep voting for a guy who thinks we have 57 states?

Premiums are going up? Mine haven't for the up coming year. It destroyed the economy? The economy got destroyed over 5 years ago by your boy. I haven't seen any stats on people going part time for this reason but I have been surprised by the buisness's that suddenly have available health insurance for their employees and the employees I work with from those small businesses haven't gone part time. Fear, it's what will destroy this country and keep the Republicans chugging along.

BroncoBeavis
08-12-2013, 09:40 AM
Premiums are going up? Mine haven't for the up coming year. It destroyed the economy? The economy got destroyed over 5 years ago by your boy. I haven't seen any stats on people going part time for this reason but I have been surprised by the buisness's that suddenly have available health insurance for their employees and the employees I work with from those small businesses haven't gone part time. Fear, it's what will destroy this country and keep the Republicans chugging along.

Small businesses are exempt from the mandate. As for everyone else...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/31/who-can-deny-it-obamacare-is-accelerating-u-s-towards-a-part-time-nation/

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/08/PTSurge-300x2258.png

B-Large
08-12-2013, 10:16 AM
Small businesses are exempt from the mandate. As for everyone else...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/31/who-can-deny-it-obamacare-is-accelerating-u-s-towards-a-part-time-nation/

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/08/PTSurge-300x2258.png

so its may be a statistically anomoly, and represents a tiny fraction of workers...

truth is success businesses that are selling alot of product need workers to fill orders, mandate or no mandate.

BroncoBeavis
08-12-2013, 11:06 AM
so its may be a statistically anomoly, and represents a tiny fraction of workers...

truth is success businesses that are selling alot of product need workers to fill orders, mandate or no mandate.

Part time workers can fill orders too. And come mandate-free.

BroncoBeavis
08-14-2013, 09:06 AM
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/02/198432/most-2013-job-growth-is-in-part.html#.Uf-UcGRAS7g

The July government employment report released Friday showed the job market treading water.

And a closer look at one of the two measures the Labor Department uses to gauge employment suggests that part-time work accounted for almost all the job growth that’s been reported over the past six months.

Hall is no ordinary academic. He ran the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the agency that puts out the monthly jobs report, from 2008 to 2012. Over the past six months, he said, the Household Survey shows 963,000 more people reporting that they were employed, and 936,000 of them reported they’re in part-time jobs.

“That is a really high number for a six-month period,” Hall said. “I’m not sure that has ever happened over six months before.”

Huh, even the former head of Obama's own BLS calls it unprecedented. No worries though. I'm sure it's just a weird kwinkydink.

The Lone Bolt
08-14-2013, 04:25 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure why the requirement for employers to provide health insurance for full-time employees is there to begin with. Seems to me the PPACA would work just fine without it.

Archer81
08-14-2013, 04:35 PM
The latest study shows 19 states. last i checked 19 is more than 9.Keep trying though.This is funny. i can see you fuming over your keyboard trying so hard not to give credit where credit is due, and screaming "damn tou liberals!":rofl:


Michelle Obama's Let's Move! campaign. The first lady had pushed kids to eat healthy and exercise more, and thousands of child care centers have adopted the message. She's held nationwide healthy cooking contests for kids and agencies like the Department of Education have incorporated her message into their programs. And the date of her tenure in the White House corresponds roughly with the scope of the federal study.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/childhood-obesity-poor-kids/story?id=19905261


Her program started IN 2010. The decreases were shown to have started to occur TEN years ago. How the **** can she claim credit for something she had nothing to do with? Oh, right. She is an Obama. That's how.


:Broncos:

Rigs11
08-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Her program started IN 2010. The decreases were shown to have started to occur TEN years ago. How the **** can she claim credit for something she had nothing to do with? Oh, right. She is an Obama. That's how.


:Broncos:

the selective rightards. 6 months into office and obama gets blamed for the recession that started under dubya.Yet now michelle cannot take any credit for the programs that she started in 2010. LOL

Rigs11
08-15-2013, 10:15 AM
This is from one of your own.

Gingrich: Republicans have 'zero' health care ideas

Boston (CNN) – Former House Speaker and presidential candidate Newt Gingrich reprimanded his fellow Republicans in unusually harsh terms Wednesday, blaming GOP members of Congress for developing "zero" alternatives to President Obama's health care reform law.

Gingrich, who was speaking at the opening session of the Republican National Committee's summer meeting, fielded a question about "Obamacare" and recalled that Republicans were able to block Bill Clinton's health care reform effort in 1994 because they had "a positive alternative approach" to health care.

But Republicans today have nothing comparable to offer, Gingrich told nearly the 200 state party chairs, operatives and activists gathered in Boston for the conference.

"I will bet you, for most of you, you go home in the next two weeks when your members of Congress are home, and you look them in the eye and you say, 'What is your positive replacement for Obamacare?' They will have zero answer," Gingrich said.
Gingrich blamed the problem on Republican culture that rewards obstruction and negativity instead of innovation and "being positive."
"We are caught up right now in a culture, and you see it every single day, where as long as we are negative and as long as we are vicious and as long as we can tear down our opponent, we don't have to learn anything," Gingrich said, acknowledging the "totally candid" nature of his remarks. "We have to do the homework."

"This is a very deep problem," said Gingrich, who was recently named one of the hosts of CNN's political talk show "Crossfire."

Gingrich's remarks were pegged to his forthcoming book "Breakout," which calls on Republicans to embrace new technologies and policies in an effort to become a party of the future.

President Obama also accused Republicans of having no health care plan during a White House press conference last week, a claim that was met with disdain by House Republican leaders who circulated a series of health care ideas to reporters after the president's remarks.

A number of prominent conservatives in the House and Senate are pushing to shut down the federal government in a bid to de-fund the president's health care law when Congress takes up a government spending measure in late September.
Asked if he agreed with Gingrich's arguments, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus said "not completely." He pointed to a number of piecemeal health care proposals available on the web sites of House Republican leaders.

Priebus said he supports repealing or de-funding Obamacare, but pressed on whether he would support a government shutdown to accomplish those goals, Priebus said he did not want to debate tactics.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/14/gingrich-republicans-have-zero-health-care-ideas/?hpt=hp_t3

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2013, 10:25 AM
This is from one of your own.

Gingrich: Republicans have 'zero' health care ideas

Boston (CNN) – Former House Speaker and presidential candidate Newt Gingrich reprimanded his fellow Republicans in unusually harsh terms Wednesday, blaming GOP members of Congress for developing "zero" alternatives to President Obama's health care reform law.

Gingrich, who was speaking at the opening session of the Republican National Committee's summer meeting, fielded a question about "Obamacare" and recalled that Republicans were able to block Bill Clinton's health care reform effort in 1994 because they had "a positive alternative approach" to health care.

But Republicans today have nothing comparable to offer, Gingrich told nearly the 200 state party chairs, operatives and activists gathered in Boston for the conference.

"I will bet you, for most of you, you go home in the next two weeks when your members of Congress are home, and you look them in the eye and you say, 'What is your positive replacement for Obamacare?' They will have zero answer," Gingrich said.
Gingrich blamed the problem on Republican culture that rewards obstruction and negativity instead of innovation and "being positive."
"We are caught up right now in a culture, and you see it every single day, where as long as we are negative and as long as we are vicious and as long as we can tear down our opponent, we don't have to learn anything," Gingrich said, acknowledging the "totally candid" nature of his remarks. "We have to do the homework."

"This is a very deep problem," said Gingrich, who was recently named one of the hosts of CNN's political talk show "Crossfire."

Gingrich's remarks were pegged to his forthcoming book "Breakout," which calls on Republicans to embrace new technologies and policies in an effort to become a party of the future.

President Obama also accused Republicans of having no health care plan during a White House press conference last week, a claim that was met with disdain by House Republican leaders who circulated a series of health care ideas to reporters after the president's remarks.

A number of prominent conservatives in the House and Senate are pushing to shut down the federal government in a bid to de-fund the president's health care law when Congress takes up a government spending measure in late September.
Asked if he agreed with Gingrich's arguments, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus said "not completely." He pointed to a number of piecemeal health care proposals available on the web sites of House Republican leaders.

Priebus said he supports repealing or de-funding Obamacare, but pressed on whether he would support a government shutdown to accomplish those goals, Priebus said he did not want to debate tactics.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/14/gingrich-republicans-have-zero-health-care-ideas/?hpt=hp_t3

Funny, someone else was just b****ing the other day about AEI bothering to still publish different proposals at this late Obamacare hour and what a waste of time that was. Which is it?

Anyway, as for the Newt, mostly bull****.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/12/15/ron-wyden-and-paul-ryans-bipartisan-plan-for-health-care-and-medicare-reform/

Newt's always trying to separate himself as an "ideas" guy. But the real problem isn't that there aren't alternative ideas. It's that nobody talks about your ideas if you don't have the power to implement them.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
http://www.bartcop.com/tb-wants.jpg

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2013, 10:56 AM
http://www.bartcop.com/tb-wants.jpg

Hey Labron, you didn't answer last time. Weren't you talking Bush Impeachment for all that bad stuff he did to your Civil Libertaaah a few years back?

How 'bout now?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2013, 10:59 AM
Hey Labron...

Don't you have a Klan rally or a cross burning to attend or something?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2013, 11:00 AM
Hey Labron, you didn't answer last time. Weren't you talking Bush Impeachment for all that bad stuff he did to your Civil Libertaaah a few years back?

How 'bout now?

The difference?

People like you defended Dumbya every inch of the way.

alkemical
08-15-2013, 02:38 PM
http://benswann.com/obamacare-provision-forced-home-inspections/

I haven't fact checked this, but it raised my eyebrow(s):

OBAMACARE PROVISION: “FORCED” HOME INSPECTIONS

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2013, 03:47 PM
The difference?

People like you defended Dumbya every inch of the way.

So what you're saying is you're every bit as bad as those you love to accuse.

Archer81
08-15-2013, 04:19 PM
the selective rightards. 6 months into office and obama gets blamed for the recession that started under dubya.Yet now michelle cannot take any credit for the programs that she started in 2010. LOL

The bolded is straight up stupid. I said no such thing, stop trying to deflect because you are losing the argument.

She can take credit for her program, and why you think I'd say otherwise is ridiculous. She is talking about, and taking credit for, decreases in obesity that happened before this program was even a thought. Do you not see the difference?



:Broncos:

Rigs11
08-16-2013, 09:21 AM
The bolded is straight up stupid. I said no such thing, stop trying to deflect because you are losing the argument.

She can take credit for her program, and why you think I'd say otherwise is ridiculous. She is talking about, and taking credit for, decreases in obesity that happened before this program was even a thought. Do you not see the difference?



:Broncos:

Her programs are being given credit. no not all the credit but some. talk about stupid.

The Lone Bolt
08-16-2013, 01:21 PM
Funny, someone else was just b****ing the other day about AEI bothering to still publish different proposals at this late Obamacare hour and what a waste of time that was. Which is it?

Anyway, as for the Newt, mostly bull****.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/12/15/ron-wyden-and-paul-ryans-bipartisan-plan-for-health-care-and-medicare-reform/

Newt's always trying to separate himself as an "ideas" guy. But the real problem isn't that there aren't alternative ideas. It's that nobody talks about your ideas if you don't have the power to implement them.

So can you link us to the page on the republican party website that outlines their "official" replacement plan for Obamacare?

A few ideas being thrown out by some republicans doesn't amount to a republican party healthcare reform plan. Until the entire party is behind such a plan, they have no real alternative to Obamacare.

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2013, 01:26 PM
So can you link us to the page on the republican party website that outlines their "official" replacement plan for Obamacare?

A few ideas being thrown out by some republicans doesn't amount to a republican party healthcare reform plan. Until the entire party is behind such a plan, they have no real alternative to Obamacare.

Parties don't put out concrete proposals like that. They mostly speak in general principles (which are mostly ignored)

Anyway, nobody even knew what Democrats were passing when they passed it. It certainly wasn't built off of some widely-published proposal that made the rounds beforehand.

B-Large
08-16-2013, 01:27 PM
:oyvey:

Marks my words: this hardcore drive to sabotage and completely repeal the PPACA is going to blow up in republican's faces.

What they are fighting for is a Pyrrhic Victory......

B-Large
08-16-2013, 01:29 PM
Parties don't put out concrete proposals like that. They mostly speak in general principles (which are mostly ignored)

Anyway, nobody even knew what Democrats were passing when they passed it. It certainly wasn't built off of some widely-published proposal that made the rounds beforehand.

It was built of the Heritage propopsal of the 90's with insight from the Massaschetts Health Care Law.....

People know what is was. Some wanted Single Payor, some wanted Public Option, some just wanted anything better than the shortfalls or what he had... in end we got the Hybrid Convoluted Lobby Pleasing bill that does an "ok" job of dealing with the issues.

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2013, 01:48 PM
It was built of the Heritage propopsal of the 90's with insight from the Massaschetts Health Care Law.....

People know what is was. Some wanted Single Payor, some wanted Public Option, some just wanted anything better than the shortfalls or what he had... in end we got the Hybrid Convoluted Lobby Pleasing bill that does an "ok" job of dealing with the issues.

There's only so many angles to take on health care. You could say parts of it resemble any number of past proposals. But to claim that this was a product of something that was thoroughly vetted to the public first is fantasy. Candidate Obama was pretty clearly against the individual mandate, for instance, which now is the only one in the ACA that he hasn't put on a political vacation.

houghtam
08-16-2013, 02:17 PM
There's only so many angles to take on health care. You could say parts of it resemble any number of past proposals. But to claim that this was a product of something that was thoroughly vetted to the public first is fantasy. Candidate Obama was pretty clearly against the individual mandate, for instance, which now is the only one in the ACA that he hasn't put on a political vacation.

How many laws passed are "thoroughly vetted" by the public?

Pony Boy
08-16-2013, 02:40 PM
Well he finally got his wish from the last line in this poem, he can send the doctor bill to "Whitey on the Moon"

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/e_X8ZOZ7zT4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2013, 02:44 PM
How many laws passed are "thoroughly vetted" by the public?

That's kinda my point.

houghtam
08-16-2013, 03:11 PM
That's kinda my point.

It's always been this way.

How long have you been complaining about it?

My guess is <5 years or so.

LOL

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2013, 03:20 PM
It's always been this way.

How long have you been complaining about it?

My guess is <5 years or so.

LOL

I'm not complaining about it. I'm saying it's silly for people to expect any different.

There was no concrete "Democratic Health Care Plan" laid out in detail prior to the Obamacare sausage-stuffing. Because that's not how things are done in Washington.

Why would there be one from Republicans? There are a range of ideas from a range of people on both sides. with no 'official' version to go on.

baja
08-16-2013, 03:37 PM
I'm not complaining about it. I'm saying it's silly for people to expect any different.

There was no concrete "Democratic Health Care Plan" laid out in detail prior to the Obamacare sausage-stuffing. Because that's not how things are done in Washington.

Why would there be one from Republicans? There are a range of ideas from a range of people on both sides. with no 'official' version to go on.

Hey dude look at all the part time jobs that were created......


wait for it

......out of full time jobs

Arkie
08-16-2013, 06:25 PM
61% Expect Health Care in U.S. To Get Worse Over Next Two Years
62% See Free Market As Better Than More Regulation In Reducing Health Care Costs
60% Expect Costs To Rise Under Federal Health Care Law
59% Prefer Less Health Insurance, Bigger Paycheck
54% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
By a two-to-one margin, 56% to 26%, voters want the president to delay implementation of the individual mandate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/content/search?SearchText=health

houghtam
08-16-2013, 06:52 PM
61% Expect Health Care in U.S. To Get Worse Over Next Two Years
62% See Free Market As Better Than More Regulation In Reducing Health Care Costs
60% Expect Costs To Rise Under Federal Health Care Law
59% Prefer Less Health Insurance, Bigger Paycheck
54% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
By a two-to-one margin, 56% to 26%, voters want the president to delay implementation of the individual mandate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/content/search?SearchText=health

Rasmussen's long history of a conservative lean aside, look at the polling on the individual details of the ACA and then get back to us.

DenverBrit
08-16-2013, 07:48 PM
61% Expect Health Care in U.S. To Get Worse Over Next Two Years
62% See Free Market As Better Than More Regulation In Reducing Health Care Costs
60% Expect Costs To Rise Under Federal Health Care Law
59% Prefer Less Health Insurance, Bigger Paycheck
54% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
By a two-to-one margin, 56% to 26%, voters want the president to delay implementation of the individual mandate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/content/search?SearchText=health

Problem is, few polled really understand Obama-care (me included) and are responding to whatever they learn from the 'news' source' they use.

Both 'parties' need to get their act together and 'modify' the bill until it makes fiscal sense, while at the same time, meeting its objectives; everyone covered, pre-existing condition(s) coverage, no lifetime limits on $ payouts for healthcare (the REAL death panel) etc.

They also need to look at the way it is being 'delivered;' I have serious doubts about the current viability of blanket coverage for employees working 30+ hours. Some serious tweaking needs to take place there.

Uncoupling healthcare coverage from the employers is the way to go, but that's another can of worms.

Lowering healthcare costs needs to be the priority, and that appears to vary from State to State.

The Lone Bolt
08-16-2013, 11:40 PM
I'm not complaining about it. I'm saying it's silly for people to expect any different.

There was no concrete "Democratic Health Care Plan" laid out in detail prior to the Obamacare sausage-stuffing. Because that's not how things are done in Washington.

Why would there be one from Republicans? There are a range of ideas from a range of people on both sides. with no 'official' version to go on.

The dems proved that they could get behind a plan and pass it. The republicans have shown no such potential.

No matter how much you dance around the issue the public perception is that even if the republicans are successful in repealing the PPACA chances are they'll replace it with nothing because they haven't proven they can get behind a plan of their own.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 02:45 AM
The dems proved that they could get behind a plan and pass it. The republicans have shown no such potential.

No matter how much you dance around the issue the public perception is that even if the republicans are successful in repealing the PPACA chances are they'll replace it with nothing because they haven't proven they can get behind a plan of their own.

They won't be successful repealing, so the only thing they think they can do is defund it, yet the vast majority of the law is permanent, so even defunding it doesn't do dick.

So instead the party of no does nothing except obstruct because they don't like the law, and keep trying to shove poll numbers down the public's throat which, after they're parsed, any person with two brain cells to rub together knows the public supports the individual tenets of the law.
Give it up. Stop obstructing and ****ing govern for a change.

LOL

Pony Boy
08-21-2013, 01:53 PM
UPS to drop 15,000 spouses from insurance, cites Obamacare

United Parcel Service Inc. plans to remove thousands of spouses from its medical plan because they are eligible for coverage elsewhere.
The decision comes as many analysts are downplaying the Affordable Care Act's effect on companies such as UPS, noting that the move reflects a long-term trend of shrinking corporate medical benefits, Kaiser Health News reports. But UPS repeatedly cites Obamacare to explain the decision, adding fuel to the debate over whether it erodes traditional employer coverage, Kaiser says.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 02:01 PM
The dems proved that they could get behind a plan and pass it. The republicans have shown no such potential.

That's not really a rational argument. It's one of those things that's true right up until the moment it isn't.

Not even getting into whether shooting yourself in the foot is "better" than doing nothing. :)

houghtam
08-21-2013, 02:09 PM
That's not really a rational argument. It's one of those things that's true right up until the moment it isn't.

Not even getting into whether shooting yourself in the foot is "better" than doing nothing. :)

For someone who whines so much about the "do somethingers", you sure talk a lot about doing nothing.

Do nothinger.

:)

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 02:12 PM
For someone who whines so much about the "do somethingers", you sure talk a lot about doing nothing.

Do nothinger.

:)

Doing nothing is preferable to a Federal "one-size-fits-300-million" solution 90% of the time.

peacepipe
08-21-2013, 02:19 PM
UPS to drop 15,000 spouses from insurance, cites Obamacare

United Parcel Service Inc. plans to remove thousands of spouses from its medical plan because they are eligible for coverage elsewhere.
The decision comes as many analysts are downplaying the Affordable Care Act's effect on companies such as UPS, noting that the move reflects a long-term trend of shrinking corporate medical benefits, Kaiser Health News reports. But UPS repeatedly cites Obamacare to explain the decision, adding fuel to the debate over whether it erodes traditional employer coverage, Kaiser says.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-21/ups-to-end-insurance-coverage-for-15-000-working-spouses.html

LOL it is working spouses of white-collar employees, due to the spouse can get insured through their own employer. None of the 250,000 regular workers from drivers to package handlers are affected.

houghtam
08-21-2013, 02:24 PM
Doing nothing is preferable to a Federal "one-size-fits-300-million" solution 90% of the time.

Link?

Pony Boy
08-21-2013, 02:32 PM
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-21/ups-to-end-insurance-coverage-for-15-000-working-spouses.html

LOL it is working spouses of white-collar employees, due to the spouse can get insured through their own employer. None of the 250,000 regular workers from drivers to package handlers are affected.

Barack Obama says that under his health care law, those who have health insurance will keep it.

"If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance," Obama said.

Pony Boy
08-21-2013, 02:34 PM
Mid- and large-sized companies overwhelmingly expect health-care costs to increase under Obamacare—and most are eyeing possible changes to their health insurance offerings because of a looming excise tax for pricier plans under the health-care reform law, a new survey of employers finds.

In fact, 40 percent of 420 companies surveyed by Towers Watson said they will be changing their insurance plans' designs in 2014 in light of the coming excise tax as well as to control employee-related health costs.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/100975973

peacepipe
08-21-2013, 02:45 PM
Barack Obama says that under his health care law, those who have health insurance will keep it.

"If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance," Obama said.

Obamacare is going nowhere,get over it.

Pony Boy
08-21-2013, 02:56 PM
Obamacare is going nowhere,get over it.

I think you're missing the point, UPS can thumb their nose at Obama and there is nothing he can do about it.

“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.” – Barack Obama, July 2009

Today’s ObamaCare triumph is the announcement by United Parcel Service that it will drop working spouses from its health care plan, loudly and repeatedly citing the Affordable Care Act as the reason. From Kaiser Health News:

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/08/21/todays-obamacare-triumph-ups-drops-coverage-for-15000-spouses/

houghtam
08-21-2013, 02:56 PM
Obamacare is going nowhere,get over it.

^

We're closer to single payer than we are getting rid of the ACA.

Rigs11
08-21-2013, 03:10 PM
ummm.. I hope the GOP has plans to tell them young repubs that they want to defund obamacare...:spit:

Even Republican young adults want health insurance, poll finds

Obamacare may have become a partisan issue, but more Republicans than Democrats have signed up for one of its most popular provisions, according to a survey published Wednesday.


The survey also pokes holes in the idea that most 20-somethings act like “Young Invincibles” who believe they don’t need health insurance.

A team at the Commonwealth Fund, which strongly supports healthcare reform, looked at one of the main target groups of the 2010 Affordable Care Act – young adults who have been going without health insurance. One of the most popular provisions of the law lets people age 26 and younger stay on their parents’ health insurance.

“Public opinion polls found a partisan divide … but Republicans and Democrats both took advantage of the young adult provisions,” says Commonwealth vice president Sara Collins, who led the study. “In fact, more Republicans than Democrats did.”

They found that by last March, 63 percent of young adults identifying as Republicans had enrolled in a parent’s health plan in the last 12 months, compared to 45 percent of those who considered themselves Democrats. About 26 percent of the 1,800 adults surveyed said they were Republicans, 28 percent said they were Democrats and the rest either said they were independent, some other party, or did not say.
The health reform law was passed in Congress in 2009 without a single Republican vote, and Republicans have fought it ever since -- even though it contains many provisions that were originally suggested by Republicans. The Republican-led House of Representatives has voted several times to repeal the law, which has been going into effect in stages since 2010, but the Democrats who dominate the Senate prevent any further action.

The latest push is to stop the law from taking effect by taking away money to implement its main provisions.

Overall, 15 million 19-to-25-year-olds, or about half of all Americans this age, are on their parents’ health plan, the report says.

The Obama Administration is working with a batch of non-profit groups, including one called Young Invincibles, to encourage healthy young adults to sign up for health insurance.

Just this week, the Health and Human Services Department and the group launched a contest trying to encourage young adults to make videos promoting the law’s provisions.

Health experts agree that people will take better care of their health and rack up fewer expenses down the road if they have health insurance.

There’s also concern that if young, healthy adults don’t join the insurance pool, health insurance companies will have to charge everyone more to cover the smaller, sicker pool of adults who do have coverage.

But the Commonwealth survey suggests that it’s money that stops 20-somethings from signing up for health insurance, not some idea that they don’t need it.

“There is a stereotype that young adults believe they are ‘invincible’ and don’t want or need health insurance,” said Collins. “This survey shows that is a myth—a typical uninsured young adult is from a low- or middle-income family and works a low-wage job. In general, young adults value health insurance but cannot afford it.”

“Enrollment rates of working young adults in their own employer-sponsored plans average nearly 70 percent, with cost being a principal factor cited among those who do not enroll,” the report reads.

A study released Tuesday showed the health insurance for an average family is $16,000 a year; $5,800 for a single person. Most Americans get health insurance through an employer. Under the 2010 law, states and the federal government are setting up online marketplaces where people who don’t have health insurance can buy it, often with a hefty federal government subsidy.

And about half the states will expand Medicaid to cover more people, with the federal government paying almost all the bill through 2020.

The survey itself may be only partly representative of the young Americans being targeted. Online research firm Knowledge Networks GfK did two separate surveys of 19 to 29-year-olds for Commonwealth in 2011 and 2013, each time inviting about 3,500 people to answer questions. Both times, just over half did.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/even-republican-young-adults-want-health-insurance-poll-finds-6C10963044#

Rigs11
08-21-2013, 03:11 PM
In before a rightard claims the poll biased..and that they personally know a young repub that hates obamacare...

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 03:28 PM
In before a rightard claims the poll biased..and that they personally know a young repub that hates obamacare...

Sorry, but a poll that doesn't account for socioeconomic differences in this context is meaningless.

Rigs11
08-21-2013, 03:30 PM
Sorry, but a poll that doesn't account for socioeconomic differences in this context is meaningless.

thanks for the laugh

Pony Boy
08-21-2013, 03:31 PM
In before a rightard claims the poll biased..and that they personally know a young repub that hates obamacare...

You do know that any young adult that wants health insurance can get it at a very affordable price today? Insurance companies love young health adults, it's the young healthy adults that don't see the need for health care unless it is free. They want their mommy and daddy or federal government to give it to them for free.

Tell me which monthly bill will they pay first, their cell phone bill or their health insurance premium?

Rigs11
08-21-2013, 03:35 PM
You do know that any young adult that wants health insurance can get it at a very affordable price today? Insurance companies love young health adults, it's the young healthy adults that don't see the need for health care unless it is free. They want their mommy and daddy or federal government to give it to them for free.

Tell me which monthly bill will they pay first, their cell phone bill or their health insurance premium?

and yet they are still opting for obamacare. Unless you have a different poll that states that repubs are'nt using obamacare, your opinion holds no merit. so now ther righties can also add young republicans to their hate list?damn freeloadersLOL

peacepipe
08-21-2013, 03:38 PM
You do know that any young adult that wants health insurance can get it at a very affordable price today? Insurance companies love young health adults, it's the young healthy adults that don't see the need for health care unless it is free. They want their mommy and daddy or federal government to give it to them for free.

Tell me which monthly bill will they pay first, their cell phone bill or their health insurance premium?

Just as I know many parents don't want their kids to worry about that while in college. Hence why they like being able to keep their children on their plan.

Also if a parent chooses to,they can tell their kid "make sure to get a second job so you can pay for your own insurance".

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 03:38 PM
thanks for the laugh

Did you know most Medicare enrollees lean Republican? Does that mean Medicare is most supported by Republicans?

Of course not. We all live within the framework we're given. But that doesn't mean we think it's the best way.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 03:40 PM
and yet they are still opting for obamacare. Unless you have a different poll that states that repubs are'nt using obamacare, your opinion holds no merit. so now ther righties can also add young republicans to their hate list?damn freeloadersLOL

Ah, another variation of the "If You Hate Big Oil, You Can't Drive a Car" argument. LOL

Rigs11
08-21-2013, 03:44 PM
Did you know most Medicare enrollees lean Republican? Does that mean Medicare is most supported by Republicans?

Of course not. We all live within the framework we're given. But that doesn't mean we think it's the best way.

bs. you get chills whenever the prez is succesful at anything.here repubs, most likely voting repubs, are using obamacare and now you come up with this bs that people live within the framework? are you dizzy from spinning so hard?

Rigs11
08-21-2013, 03:46 PM
obama: "water is wet"
repub: "not all water is wet!"

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 03:49 PM
bs. you get chills whenever the prez is succesful at anything.here repubs, most likely voting repubs, are using obamacare and now you come up with this bs that people live within the framework? are you dizzy from spinning so hard?

Do you feel turrible every time you stop at the corner Exxon? :)

Fedaykin
08-21-2013, 04:14 PM
Do you feel turrible every time you stop at the corner Exxon? :)

Pretty idiotic attempt to draw a parallel. It's exceedingly difficult to live without using the products of big oil -- no matter your age. It's not likewise difficult for 18-26 year olds to live without medical insurance.

Mind you -- it's still a bad idea, but easily avoidable.

Arkie
08-21-2013, 04:19 PM
Link?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Arkie
08-21-2013, 04:21 PM
^

We're closer to single payer than we are getting rid of the ACA.

That's the plan when Obamacare doesn't work. I'm guessing around 2015 or 2016.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 04:28 PM
Pretty idiotic attempt to draw a parallel. It's exceedingly difficult to live without using the products of big oil -- no matter your age. It's not likewise difficult for 18-26 year olds to live without medical insurance.

Mind you -- it's still a bad idea, but easily avoidable.

It's a pretty good parallel. Saying they have a reasonable alternative in doing that which you'd otherwise call irresponsible dirtbag freeloading only cements it.

Oh, and I guess Democrats who hate insurance companies are also huge hypocrites in this whole ACA mess. Can't bitch about Insurance companies while forcing the public to buy their product, now can we?

peacepipe
08-21-2013, 04:31 PM
obama: "water is wet"
repub: "not all water is wet!"

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/poll-louisiana-gopers-unsure-if-katrina-response-was?ref=fpb

29% of republicans in louisiana blame Obama for the response to katrina. Just piling on.

houghtam
08-21-2013, 04:33 PM
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

"But...the money!"

The Lone Bolt
08-21-2013, 04:39 PM
That's not really a rational argument. It's one of those things that's true right up until the moment it isn't.

Not even getting into whether shooting yourself in the foot is "better" than doing nothing. :)

Oh but I think it is. Whether you like it or not, the public perception is that the republicans are saying:

"We're going to repeal Obamacare and when we do we'll replace it with... um... something. And it'll be really great! Really! You'll see! Trust us."

LOL

If you think that's going to fly with most voters you're dreaming. If the repubs have any chance at all of repeal they better tell us what they plan to replace Obamacare with -- in detail.

Fedaykin
08-21-2013, 04:44 PM
It's a pretty good parallel. Saying they have a reasonable alternative in doing that which you'd otherwise call irresponsible dirtbag freeloading only cements it.

Try some reading comprehension. The issue is that :

Oil = essential and unavoidable to live life on a daily basis.

Health Insurance under parent's plan = not essential and unavoidable to live life on a daily basis. It's also not essential to complying with current law (and more expensive than any penalties associated with not having insurance).

Trying to draw a parallel between those two things and behavior associated with their use is an epic gumby attempt.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 04:49 PM
Try some reading comprehension. The issue is that :

Oil = essential and unavoidable to live life on a daily basis.

Health Insurance under parent's plan = not essential and unavoidable to live life on a daily basis. It's also not essential to complying with current law (and more expensive than any penalties associated with not having insurance).

Trying to draw a parallel between those two things and behavior associated with their use is an epic gumby attempt.

So your argument, after years of telling us how disastrous the plight of the uninsured was, is to say uninsuredism isn't all that bad a deal. LOL

Fedaykin
08-21-2013, 04:50 PM
So your argument, after years of telling us how disastrous the plight of the uninsured was, is to say uninsuredism isn't all that bad a deal. LOL

Wow, even when I reiterate, you fail to comprehend. Care to try again?

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Oh but I think it is. Whether you like it or not, the public perception is that the republicans are saying:

"We're going to repeal Obamacare and when we do we'll replace it with... um... something. And it'll be really great! Really! You'll see! Trust us."

LOL

If you think that's going to fly with most voters you're dreaming. If the repubs have any chance at all of repeal they better tell us what they plan to replace Obamacare with -- in detail.

There's no funding to insure our new Part-timer nation. Congress in it's chronically finite wisdom didn't see it coming. The uninsured will mostly remain so. Rates will spiral. People who were told Obamacare was going to reduce costs will be exposed to the real world.

If you knew what was coming, you'd be begging for repeal right now. Because when the public sees this turd in action is when things get really interesting.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Wow, even when I reiterate, you fail to comprehend. Care to try again?

No, I get it. Being a cancer patient with no insurance is easier than living a life sans Big-Oil.

Makes total sense. And is super consistent with what you kids have said all along. :)

Fedaykin
08-21-2013, 04:57 PM
No, I get it. Being a cancer patient with no insurance is easier than living a life sans Big-Oil.

Makes total sense. And is super consistent with what you kids have said all along. :)

That is not at all what I am saying. Hooked on Phonics -- get a copy bub.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 05:05 PM
That is not at all what I am saying. Hooked on Phonics -- get a copy bub.

Feel free to reiterate.

Oil = essential and unavoidable to live life on a daily basis.

Health Insurance under parent's plan = not essential and unavoidable to live life on a daily basis.

Health care... less essential than oil. This could lead us down all sorts of fun roads. LOL

The Lone Bolt
08-21-2013, 05:06 PM
There's no funding to insure our new Part-timer nation. Congress in it's chronically finite wisdom didn't see it coming. The uninsured will mostly remain so. Rates will spiral. People who were told Obamacare was going to reduce costs will be exposed to the real world.

If you knew what was coming, you'd be begging for repeal right now. Because when the public sees this turd in action is when things get really interesting.

We'll see. If there are problems the first step is reform. I never expected the program to work perfectly right off the bat. That's unrealistic.

If repeated reforms fail to produce results and we are worse off than the mess we used to have then I'll seriously consider supporting full repeal. Right now republican's demand of full repeal before the PPACA has been given any chance at working is unreasonable IMO.

Fedaykin
08-21-2013, 05:08 PM
Feel free to reiterate.



Health care... less essential than oil. This could lead us down all sorts of fun roads. LOL

Already did reiterate. That you are either to stupid or simply lack the integrity to respond honestly is your own problem bub.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 05:10 PM
We'll see. If there are problems the first step is reform. I never expected the program to work perfectly right off the bat. That's unrealistic.

If repeated reforms fail to produce results and we are worse off than the mess we used to have then I'll seriously consider supporting full repeal. Right now republican's demand of full repeal before the PPACA has been given any chance at working is unreasonable IMO.

Unfortunately, the ACA lowballed virtually all the of the realistic costs because they wanted it to look cheap during passage. An accounting gimmick normally considered criminal when traded companies engage in it.

But squeezing the next trillion or so it will take through Congress is going to be much trickier (impossible) this time.

houghtam
08-21-2013, 05:11 PM
We'll see. If there are problems the first step is reform. I never expected the program to work perfectly right off the bat. That's unrealistic.

If repeated reforms fail to produce results and we are worse off than the mess we used to have then I'll seriously consider supporting full repeal. Right now republican's demand of full repeal before the PPACA has been given any chance at working is unreasonable IMO.

No, according to Beavis, the first step should be wait and do nothing and see what happens for a long period of time.

You know, let the data "percolate" a bit?

LOL

Interesting how when it comes to climate change, there's just not enough data, yet for Obamacare, it's already time to repeal or defund based on...conjecture and opinion?

Double standard.

Fedaykin
08-21-2013, 08:10 PM
No, according to Beavis, the first step should be wait and do nothing and see what happens for a long period of time.

You know, let the data "percolate" a bit?

LOL

Interesting how when it comes to climate change, there's just not enough data, yet for Obamacare, it's already time to repeal or defund based on...conjecture and opinion?

Double standard.

If you're really expecting any kind of intellectual integrity from Beavis apparently you and me haven't been reading the same posts. ;)

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2013, 08:59 PM
No, according to Beavis, the first step should be wait and do nothing and see what happens for a long period of time.

You know, let the data "percolate" a bit?

LOL

Interesting how when it comes to climate change, there's just not enough data, yet for Obamacare, it's already time to repeal or defund based on...conjecture and opinion?

Double standard.

You've got it backwards. Obamacare is still just a theory.

$1.76 trillion (around $13,000 per US household) just to see how it works. Pretty amazing when you realize that at it's heart the plan really is to take the former Democratic victims of society poster children known as "the uninsured" and start a PR/enforcement effort to cajole and shame the dirty freeloaders into buying the insurance they could've bought all along.

Some plan. LOL

But I will give you credit. You're consistent in both approaches. Spend spend spend. Hope something good happens despite all odds.

houghtam
08-21-2013, 09:13 PM
You've got it backwards. Obamacare is still just a theory.

$1.76 trillion (around $13,000 per US household) just to see how it works. Pretty amazing when you realize that at it's heart the plan really is to take the former Democratic victims of society poster children known as "the uninsured" and start a PR/enforcement effort to cajole and shame the dirty freeloaders into buying the insurance they could've bought all along.

Some plan. LOL

But I will give you credit. You're consistent in both approaches. Spend spend spend. Hope something good happens despite all odds.

It's the law. It's not going anywhere. You can't defund it because most of it is permanent.

And more importantly, there's still a lot of data out there to be considered.

We need to let it percolate, I think.

:)

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2013, 07:04 AM
It's the law. It's not going anywhere. You can't defund it because most of it is permanent.

And more importantly, there's still a lot of data out there to be considered.

We need to let it percolate, I think.

:)

The "law" which can apparently be set aside by executive discretion. I'm sure someone will think that comes in handy later on.

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2013, 09:27 AM
http://www.nbc29.com/story/23221800/uvas-new-health-care-plan-to-affect-spousal-coverage

"The University estimates the effects of the Affordable Care Act for this coming year alone are going to add $7 million to the cost of us implementing and operating our health plan," said UVA spokesperson McGregor McCance.

LOL

houghtam
08-22-2013, 10:08 AM
The "law" which can apparently be set aside by executive discretion. I'm sure someone will think that comes in handy later on.

LOL

Political suicide.

If you think any president will set aside a law which will effectively eliminate health care coverage for millions after they've already received it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Unfortunately that bridge is crumbling due to your party's inability to fund infrastructure reform.

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2013, 10:13 AM
LOL

Political suicide.

If you think any president will set aside a law which will effectively eliminate health care coverage for millions after they've already received it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Unfortunately that bridge is crumbling due to your party's inability to fund infrastructure reform.

You don't have to kick people off of a death spiral. They mostly remove themselves.

But mostly I was thinking about how useful it'll be in other cases. Essentially any liberal priority can be waived off by future Presidents. And you're helping lay that groundwork. Congrats.

houghtam
08-22-2013, 10:20 AM
You don't have to kick people off of a death spiral. They mostly remove themselves.

But mostly I was thinking about how useful it'll be in other cases. Essentially any liberal priority can be waived off by future Presidents. And you're helping lay that groundwork. Congrats.

Selective enforcement has been around since day one. We're all about as complicit in that by your reasoning.

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2013, 10:51 AM
Selective enforcement has been around since day one. We're all about as complicit in that by your reasoning.

We're not talking about prosecutorial or administrative discretion here. We're talking

"Hey, companies, contributors, friends. I caught word that this law I signed mandates that you pay for certain things a certain way. I know that you don't like that. And I also know that there are midterm elections next year. Therefore, by my decree, you don't have to pay what the law says you do. Just do your own thing. Consumers can pick up the difference. Just try to remember us next November. Or else I might change my mind."

TonyR
08-27-2013, 12:50 PM
Interesting...

Huffington Post’s Jason Cherkis spent two days at the Kentucky State Fair with workers from Kynect, the state’s health marketplace. He came back with a better understanding of deep-fried Kool Aid (“funnel cake dough flavored with the powdered drink mix”) and this fantastic anecdote.

A middle-aged man in a red golf shirt shuffles up to a small folding table with gold trim, in a booth adorned with a flotilla of helium balloons, where government workers at the Kentucky State Fair are hawking the virtues of Kynect, the state’s health benefit exchange established by Obamacare.

The man is impressed. “This beats Obamacare I hope,” he mutters to one of the workers.

“Do I burst his bubble?” wonders Reina Diaz-Dempsey, overseeing the operation. She doesn’t. If he signs up, it’s a win-win, whether he knows he’s been ensnared by Obamacare or not.

This speaks to a point that others, particularly Jonathan Bernstein, have already made: When Americans actually interact with Obamacare, it won’t be called Obamacare at all. In Kentucky, for example, it will be Kynect, the state health marketplace. In Idaho, local residents will purchase coverage from Your Health Idaho. Covered Oregon will serve (surprise!) Oregonians, while neighboring Washingtonians will purchase coverage from WAHealthPlanFinder. If you watch the ads that states have produced to support their marketplaces, they rarely mention the federal law that has set these changes in action.

This means it’s entirely possible that, even as people start signing up for Obamacare, the program won’t get much more popular at all, something Democrats have roundly expected. “If the ACA works as its sponsors hope, quite a lot of people — maybe the majority — who get their insurance from the exchanges will tell you that, no, they have private insurance,” Bernstein wrote recently in the American Prospect. ”They aren’t getting anything from Obamacare.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/23/these-three-paragraphs-say-everything-about-obamacare/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/kentucky-obamacare_n_3801054.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003&ir=Business

http://prospect.org/article/acas-obamacare-problem

The Lone Bolt
08-27-2013, 06:42 PM
Interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/23/these-three-paragraphs-say-everything-about-obamacare/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/kentucky-obamacare_n_3801054.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003&ir=Business

http://prospect.org/article/acas-obamacare-problem

Thanks for the reads. The prospect article was a hoot!

I never thought about it like this before but it's entirely possible that ten years from now, even as the PPACA is in full force, many people will be wondering what ever happened to "Obamacare?"

The Lone Bolt
08-27-2013, 07:36 PM
Poll: Republicans hate ‘Obamacare,’ but like most of what it does

I recently mentioned that there’s yet another poll showing that most of the Affordable Care Act’s provisions are popular, even as the bill itself remained unpopular. That poll was from Reuters/Ipsos, and Greg Sargent smartly asked them for the crosstabs. Digging in, he found that the ironies go even deeper than that. It’s not just that most of the Affordable Care Act’s provisions are popular. It’s that they’re popular with Republicans:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/06/26/poll-republicans-hate-obamacare-but-like-most-of-what-it-does/

houghtam
08-27-2013, 07:45 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/06/26/poll-republicans-hate-obamacare-but-like-most-of-what-it-does/

The funny thing is, that headline could easily read:

Poll: Republicans Hate Obamacare, Have No ****ing Clue What It Entails

Rigs11
08-28-2013, 02:42 PM
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/~/media/Images/KHN%20Home/Standard/September%2010/cartoons/gop_plan512.jpg?w=512&h=347&as=1

Rigs11
08-28-2013, 02:42 PM
http://thecontributor.com/sites/default/files/resize/breaking-news/2013/05/obamacare-lather-400x303.jpg

Rigs11
08-28-2013, 02:43 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JTyOhCtkiHg/T_gcbjrVKwI/AAAAAAAAKWM/7lq7vol2QOk/s320/obamacare.jpg

Rigs11
08-28-2013, 02:46 PM
http://media.cagle.com/23/2012/08/19/117150_600.jpg

Rigs11
08-28-2013, 02:51 PM
http://www.politicsplus.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1Cartoon.jpg

Rigs11
09-17-2013, 01:38 PM
Poll: Pretty much nobody wants Obamacare defunded

From Sen. Ted Cruz to former Gov. Sarah Palin, many of the biggest conservative players in the Republican party have made defunding the Affordable Care Act one of their primary goals of 2013. But it turns out they are in the minority, the extreme minority.

According to a poll released by the Morning Consult Wednesday, only 6% of Americans want to see the law either defunded or delayed, including only 7% of Republicans. The same poll finds about a third of Americans want to see the law repealed, while nearly two-thirds want it left alone, improved, or expanded.

The plan pushed by some conservative Republicans would shut down the government entirely until the law is defunded and stopped. Cruz urged his fellow Republicans to stick to their guns over this past weekend, celebrating Tuesday when the petition to see the law defunded passed the one-million signature milestone. But mainstream Republicans have strongly opposed it, and critics have pointed out that it almost certainly won’t work.

“The Republican base seems to think that if they shut the government down then therefore there is no money for Obamacare, and I can understand why logically you would believe that,” Huffington Post reporter Ryan Grim explained on Wednesday’s PoliticsNation. “But what they don’t understand is that there’s a difference between mandatory spending and discretionary spending. It’s complicated but this is mandatory spending which means that even if the government shuts down–they can close all the parks, all the federal buildings–the mandatory money for Obamacare keeps flowing.”

The poll, released the day President Bill Clinton made a major speech touting the benefits of the law, found that a majority of young Americans approve of the law, 56% to 38%. Hispanic voters also approve of the law in similar margins.
That’s good news for the White House, as the success of the law will be buoyed if those two groups–both some of the most uninsured or underinsured in the U.S.–begin to enroll through the insurance exchanges set to open next month.

Grim believes that could be the turning point for the law.

“I think what you’re going to see after October 1, is not just a campaign from Clinton and other Democrats, but a real word-of-mouth campaign,” he said. “I think that kind of thing is just going to go from person-to-person, and you’re going to see a lot of sign-ups, and that’s what Republicans are worried about.”

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/04/poll-pretty-much-nobody-wants-obamacare-defunded/

DenverBrit
09-17-2013, 01:45 PM
Classic......... "We threw England out of here a long time ago .....and for your information "England is a fag country".

God Bless Old Archie Bunker ...........:rofl:

LOL

Based upon a British TV show.

WTF has anyone's nationality got to do with being able to see the truth?

You're not only a homophobe, you're xenophobic too. Talk about a prize catch. Ha!

elsid13
09-17-2013, 02:23 PM
It is interesting to watch "Obamacare" be implemented. In states that are on board with the plan and investing the resources to give choice in the exchanges and explaining how the plans will work, folks are liking what they are seeing. In states that are dragging their feet and whining about it, the voters are hating the plan and idea.

Obama-care will succeed in states that willing to work and fail in states that refuse to do something

peacepipe
09-17-2013, 02:33 PM
It is interesting to watch "Obamacare" be implemented. In states that are on board with the plan and investing the resources to give choice in the exchanges and explaining how the plans will work, folks are liking what they are seeing. In states that are dragging their feet and whining about it, the voters are hating the plan and idea.

Obama-care will succeed in states that willing to work and fail in states that refuse to do something
eventually all states will comply with it.

elsid13
09-17-2013, 02:36 PM
eventually all states will comply with it.

There is a deference in complying and actually effective executing the idea and the laws. Many a Republican controlled state will only do bare minimum so can comply with the law.

Rigs11
09-17-2013, 04:27 PM
There is a deference in complying and actually effective executing the idea and the laws. Many a Republican controlled state will only do bare minimum so can comply with the law.

yep and many of the repub states use more food stamps too:wiggle:

elsid13
09-17-2013, 04:29 PM
yep and many of the repub states use more food stamps too:wiggle:

But they don't need federal assistance. ......

Rigs11
09-17-2013, 04:36 PM
But they don't need federal assistance. ......

it's ok the GOP is cutting food stamps anyways


New independent estimates Monday night show that as many as 3.8 million people would lose their food stamp benefits in 2014 under a House Republican plan to tighten eligibility and end state waivers for able-bodied adults who are unemployed.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/house-gop-seeks-tighter-food-stamp-rules-96873.html#ixzz2fByvtVA8