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24champ
05-27-2013, 09:55 PM
LOS ANGELES — After years of grueling battles over state budget deficits and spending cuts, California has a new challenge on its hands: too much money. An unexpected surplus is fueling an argument over how the state should respond to its turn of good fortune.

The amount is a matter of debate, but by any measure significant: between $1.2 billion, projected by Gov. Jerry Brown, and $4.4 billion, the estimate of the Legislature’s independent financial analyst. The surplus comes barely three years after the state was facing a deficit of close to $60 billion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/us/californias-new-problem-too-much-money.html?pagewanted=2&hp&_r=0


How should they spend the surplus?

My take is that CA should start putting some of it in a Rainy day fund + reinvestment in public service and education.

SoCalBronco
05-27-2013, 10:06 PM
The surplus is the result of an improving housing market and economy in general as well as the tax passed last year. Brown has also done a good job trimming the budget the last couple years. He has pissed off some of his own constituency but he has been a solid fiscal steward.

A decent chunk of the money for the tax increase went into education already, so I would rather just use the surplus entirely for the rainy day fund, as we still have significant fiscal issues long term. Don't piss it away on spending, just lock it away.

24champ
05-27-2013, 10:51 PM
The surplus is the result of an improving housing market and economy in general as well as the tax passed last year. Brown has also done a good job trimming the budget the last couple years. He has pissed off some of his own constituency but he has been a solid fiscal steward.

A decent chunk of the money for the tax increase went into education already, so I would rather just use the surplus entirely for the rainy day fund, as we still have significant fiscal issues long term. Don't piss it away on spending, just lock it away.

Those tax increases went towards preventing education from even more cutbacks. Teachers already have furlough days, and with the surplus we should start by rolling those back.

ghwk
05-27-2013, 10:53 PM
He still needs o deal with the teachers union here and the schools still need money. It would be really good to get class sizes in primary school into the twenties again

Finally we have a good problem!

baja
05-27-2013, 10:57 PM
The surplus is the result of an improving housing market and economy in general as well as the tax passed last year. Brown has also done a good job trimming the budget the last couple years. He has pissed off some of his own constituency but he has been a solid fiscal steward.

A decent chunk of the money for the tax increase went into education already, so I would rather just use the surplus entirely for the rainy day fund, as we still have significant fiscal issues long term. Don't piss it away on spending, just lock it away.


Better find a return of at least 15% other wise you are bleeding capital.

Real inflation may go markedly higher in the coming years.

cutthemdown
05-27-2013, 11:34 PM
Brown really did cut everything. And you know what? I didn't notice one bit diminished service for anything.

He did raise taxes and it could be awhile before that hurts by forcing some super rich out of the state.

Overall though it shows that if you just cut public spending the agencies often find a way to make ends meet and provide the public service. Our schools still fuctioning we still have fireman and police.

cutthemdown
05-27-2013, 11:37 PM
You can't beat the teachers union in CA. They are too strong. No calif politician dem or repub takes them on IMO. They can raise 10 million dollars with one letter and put it against you in a campaign. Hell they make a point and they can raise 50 million against you if they wanted. So you can forget about reform in education that includes anything they don't rubber stamp.

I still say they will over tax and hurt our states growth but i am happy with my vote for gov Brown for the most part. I didn't vote for the tax raise but the fact he made the public have to vote for the tax raise is something i apprecieated.

baja
05-27-2013, 11:58 PM
On second thought spend it now while it has some value, fix your infrastructure.

cutthemdown
05-28-2013, 02:45 AM
How about a sales tax holiday. :)

Rohirrim
05-28-2013, 04:49 AM
Wait a minute. Ahnold failed miserably and Governor Moonbeam succeeded?

24champ
05-28-2013, 09:21 AM
Wait a minute. Ahnold failed miserably and Governor Moonbeam succeeded?

Brown succeeded for the short term but if this keeps up. Conceivably the state can pay off the deficit in 10-15 years. Ill admit that I thought brown would be a complete disaster, and that Whitman would be as well. We were screwed either way but so far I'm wrong on that. Hopefully Brown contines his fiscal success.

Fedaykin
05-28-2013, 09:36 AM
You mean he worked the problem from both angles and it's working well.

Whodathunkit?

ghwk
05-28-2013, 11:58 AM
You can't beat the teachers union in CA. They are too strong. No calif politician dem or repub takes them on IMO. They can raise 10 million dollars with one letter and put it against you in a campaign. Hell they make a point and they can raise 50 million against you if they wanted. So you can forget about reform in education that includes anything they don't rubber stamp.

I still say they will over tax and hurt our states growth but i am happy with my vote for gov Brown for the most part. I didn't vote for the tax raise but the fact he made the public have to vote for the tax raise is something i apprecieated.

As a parent, I understand the reluctance on taking on the the Teachers Union but I don't think Policitans understand how frustrated parents are as well and there is untapped support there for reform. I am not anti union, BUT there are teachers who should not be teaching and abuse of the system when it comes to benefits (not just a teachers union problem). Last year my son had 3 different teachers, two of whom were hired got pregnant and left, knowing the system worked to their benefit in this. Who suffered? Every 7-8 year old in that class. And no I'm not anti-women or anti-pregnancy and right to work but this situation sucked.

My son's 3rd grade teacher just teaches to the materials handed to her by the standardized testing companies. Having been on the job for 30 years and in her 60's she will have full benefits. If she was an awesome teacher I'd want her to stay on but she isn't so I'd like to see her step aside.

I'm not trying to oversimplify the teaching problem in our schools, it's systemic and multi pronged.

I know as someone who taught at the college level if you have to develop your own lesson plans and lectures you are far more invested in them and the students than the "teach to the test matierials" they are provided with by the publishing companies. Even my sons teacher agreed with that. This prevented her from teaching to students capabilites as opposed to the progression defined by the state. She could have made a better effort but she has a built in excuse not to.

bpc
05-28-2013, 12:33 PM
How about fix the new bay bridge ensuring it won't collapse in a few years with all the faulty **** they built it with?

ghwk
05-28-2013, 12:56 PM
How about fix the new bay bridge ensuring it won't collapse in a few years with all the faulty **** they built it with?

Huge clusterf**k.

24champ
05-28-2013, 01:50 PM
How about fix the new bay bridge ensuring it won't collapse in a few years with all the faulty **** they built it with?

Thought that was fixed?

cutthemdown
05-28-2013, 02:49 PM
I have heard the state pumping tons of oil right now and plans to pump more. Our Montery shale field is huge. 15 billion barrels. It will be interesting to see the numbers and where the increase in revenue really came from.

broncocalijohn
05-28-2013, 02:57 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/us/californias-new-problem-too-much-money.html?pagewanted=2&hp&_r=0


How should they spend the surplus?

My take is that CA should start putting some of it in a Rainy day fund + reinvestment in public service and education.

LOL! Reinvest in education? You mean the 60% of the state budget isn't enough already? We spend the most and get the least out of it. How about they "act" like we are at a loss and start trimming the fat from the public union pensions and pay increases to public workers! This is how we got in trouble the first time around in the late 90s during the internet boom.

Legislature is in fantasy land if they think we don't have pension problems coming very soon. If $100 billion doesn't scare them now, I doubt anything will. California never had a revenue problem but a spending problem.

elsid13
05-28-2013, 03:02 PM
LOL! Reinvest in education? You mean the 60% of the state budget isn't enough already? We spend the most and get the least out of it. How about they "act" like we are at a loss and start trimming the fat from the public union pensions and pay increases to public workers! This is how we got in trouble the first time around in the late 90s during the internet boom.

Legislature is in fantasy land if they think we don't have pension problems coming very soon. If $100 billion doesn't scare them now, I doubt anything will. California never had a revenue problem but a spending problem.

Your numbers are little off:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/california_state_spending_pie_chart

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p3&chs=600x200&chf=bg,s,e8e8ff&chd=t:13,33,14,17,8,3,2,5,4&chl=Pensions%2013%|Health%20Care%2033%|Education%2 014%|Welfare%2017%|Protection%208%|Transportation% 203%|General%20Government%202%|Other%20Spending%20 5%|Interest%204%&chtt=State%20Spending%20for%20California%20-%20FY%202013

El Minion
05-28-2013, 04:54 PM
LOL! Reinvest in education? You mean the 60% of the state budget isn't enough already? We spend the most and get the least out of it. How about they "act" like we are at a loss and start trimming the fat from the public union pensions and pay increases to public workers! This is how we got in trouble the first time around in the late 90s during the internet boom.

Legislature is in fantasy land if they think we don't have pension problems coming very soon. If $100 billion doesn't scare them now, I doubt anything will. California never had a revenue problem but a spending problem.

http://shirahvollmermd.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/delusional.gif

24champ
05-28-2013, 05:54 PM
LOL! Reinvest in education? You mean the 60% of the state budget isn't enough already?

Where did you get those numbers? LOL



We spend the most and get the least out of it.

California is 49th in the nation in per pupil spending at $8,482.

http://www.edsource.org/today/2013/california-drops-to-49th-in-school-spending-in-annual-ed-week-report/25379#.UaVQdpyKGyE


It's been nosediving since 2006 and we DO need to reinvest in education after the drastic cuts its suffered as a result of the the economic calamity. The furloughs and teachers that were fired have impacted the education we are serving the students.

So yes, we do need to reinvest in education.

cutthemdown
05-28-2013, 06:36 PM
Just as I talked oil they announce 10 new bills in the legislature to limit drilling it and put up a ton of regulations. Thats calif for ya. Hell we could fuel a mini industrial revolution with all the oil we could frack.

Rohirrim
05-29-2013, 07:42 AM
http://shirahvollmermd.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/delusional.gif

Ha! Perfect!

Rohirrim
05-29-2013, 07:45 AM
Your numbers are little off:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/california_state_spending_pie_chart

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p3&chs=600x200&chf=bg,s,e8e8ff&chd=t:13,33,14,17,8,3,2,5,4&chl=Pensions%2013%|Health%20Care%2033%|Education%2 014%|Welfare%2017%|Protection%208%|Transportation% 203%|General%20Government%202%|Other%20Spending%20 5%|Interest%204%&chtt=State%20Spending%20for%20California%20-%20FY%202013

I wonder what we would think of such a pie chart if, instead of using the word "welfare," we used something like "caring for people" or "taking care of those who can no longer care for themselves." Then, rather than an accusation, it would stand as testament to the beneficence of our society. ;D

elsid13
05-29-2013, 02:19 PM
I wonder what we would think of such a pie chart if, instead of using the word "welfare," we used something like "caring for people" or "taking care of those who can no longer care for themselves." Then, rather than an accusation, it would stand as testament to the beneficence of our society. ;D

Maybe.

Just a little more information, when you dig into the health care cost, most of those cost are those folks that don't have coverage or are dependent upon state to help them.

broncocalijohn
05-29-2013, 10:05 PM
Your numbers are little off:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/california_state_spending_pie_chart

https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=p3&chs=600x200&chf=bg,s,e8e8ff&chd=t:13,33,14,17,8,3,2,5,4&chl=Pensions%2013%|Health%20Care%2033%|Education%2 014%|Welfare%2017%|Protection%208%|Transportation% 203%|General%20Government%202%|Other%20Spending%20 5%|Interest%204%&chtt=State%20Spending%20for%20California%20-%20FY%202013

Here is Chart C for California:
http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/budget_faqs/documents/CHART-C.pdf

General fund is 53% for last budget. My numbers are way closer than the 14% numbers put in this thread. There are also bonds that are attached to education. When you include money outside of the General Fund, the numbers can be higher.

8. How much of the State Budget is required to be spent on Education? What is Proposition 98?
Proposition 98 is an initiative passed in November 1988 and amended in June of 1990 by Proposition 111. It provides a minimum funding guarantee for school districts, community college districts, and other state agencies that provide direct elementary and secondary instructional programs for kindergarten through grade 14 (K–14).

The guarantee is based upon prior-year Proposition 98 appropriations, a cost-of-living index, population estimates, changes in per capita personal income, estimated General Fund tax proceeds and various other formulas and tests that result in the calculation of an amount that is required to be appropriated by the State for K–14 education. The guarantee varies from year to year and throughout the stages of a fiscal year's budget (from the initial Governor's Budget proposal to actual expenditures) as the various factors change.

The state's share of the guarantee is derived by subtracting local property tax revenues (the local share of the guarantee) from the total guarantee amount. Proposition 98's share of overall General Fund tax proceeds averages about 43 percent. As a percentage of new (additional) General Fund tax revenues, Proposition 98 gets approximately 54 percent, depending upon the factors and tests. For example, for an increase in General Fund tax proceeds of $100 million, Proposition 98 would get about $54 million on the average.

cutthemdown
05-29-2013, 10:24 PM
Calif should be smart and let the oil companies drill. When the spill courts are awarding huge judgements nowdays so go for it I say. We don't even have to risk the coasts because we have a shale oil reserve as big as whats fueling North Dakotas oil boom.

Why not drill, use the oil, make the money? More money means more taxes. More taxes means Obama can invest even more in alternative energy. It should be pedal to the metal on both ends right now IMO. Nothing out there going to cool the Earth. We need some huge projects that will actually reduce co2 and still leave us with adundant energy.

cutthemdown
05-29-2013, 10:27 PM
Cracks me up Elsid doesn't live in CA and thinks he can just pull a graph up and that shows the whole picture.

Trust us we spend a ton on education. Thats not even counting the money that comes in from local cities to their local schools.

B-Large
05-30-2013, 05:37 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/us/californias-new-problem-too-much-money.html?pagewanted=2&hp&_r=0


How should they spend the surplus?

My take is that CA should start putting some of it in a Rainy day fund + reinvestment in public service and education.

Maybe don't spend it, maybe give it back to tax payers?