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mhgaffney
05-08-2013, 08:42 PM
Physicist pulls out of conference hosted by president Shimon Peres in protest at treatment of Palestinians

Harriet Sherwood and Matthew Kalman in Jerusalem
The Guardian, Tuesday 7 May 2013

Professor Stephen Hawking is backing the academic boycott of Israel by pulling out of a conference hosted by Israeli president Shimon Peres in Jerusalem as a protest at Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

Hawking, 71, the world-renowned theoretical physicist and former Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge, had accepted an invitation to headline the fifth annual president's conference, Facing Tomorrow, in June, which features major international personalities, attracts thousands of participants and this year will celebrate Peres's 90th birthday.

Hawking is in very poor health, but last week he wrote a brief letter to the Israeli president to say he had changed his mind. He has not announced his decision publicly, but a statement published by the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine with Hawking's approval described it as "his independent decision to respect the boycott, based upon his knowledge of Palestine, and on the unanimous advice of his own academic contacts there".

Hawking's decision marks another victory in the campaign for boycott, divestment and sanctions targeting Israeli academic institutions.

In April the Teachers' Union of Ireland became the first lecturers' association in Europe to call for an academic boycott of Israel, and in the United States members of the Association for Asian American Studies voted to support a boycott, the first national academic group to do so.

In the four weeks since Hawking's participation in the Jerusalem event was announced, he has been bombarded with messages from Britain and abroad as part of an intense campaign by boycott supporters trying to persuade him to change his mind. In the end, Hawking told friends, he decided to follow the advice of Palestinian colleagues who unanimously agreed that he should not attend.

Hawking's decision met with abusive responses on Facebook, with many commentators focusing on his physical condition, and some accusing him of antisemitism.

By participating in the boycott, Hawking joins a small but growing list of British personalities who have turned down invitations to visit Israel, including Elvis Costello, Roger Waters, Brian Eno, Annie Lennox and Mike Leigh.

However, many artists, writers and academics have defied and even denounced the boycott, calling it ineffective and selective. Ian McEwan, who was awarded the Jerusalem Prize in 2011, responded to critics by saying: "If I only went to countries that I approve of, I probably would never get out of bed It's not great if everyone stops talking."

Noam Chomsky, a prominent supporter of the Palestinian cause, has said that he supports the "boycott and divestment of firms that are carrying out operations in the occupied territories" but that a general boycott of Israel is "a gift to Israeli hardliners and their American supporters".

Hawking has visited Israel four times in the past. Most recently, in 2006, he delivered public lectures at Israeli and Palestinian universities as the guest of the British embassy in Tel Aviv. At the time, he said he was "looking forward to coming out to Israel and the Palestinian territories and excited about meeting both Israeli and Palestinian scientists".

Since then, his attitude to Israel appears to have hardened. In 2009, Hawking denounced Israel's three-week attack on Gaza, telling Riz Khan on Al-Jazeera that Israel's response to rocket fire from Gaza was "plain out of proportion The situation is like that of South Africa before 1990 and cannot continue."

Israel Maimon, chairman of the presidential conference said: "This decision is outrageous and wrong.

"The use of an academic boycott against Israel is outrageous and improper, particularly for those to whom the spirit of liberty is the basis of the human and academic mission. Israel is a democracy in which everyone can express their opinion, whatever it may be. A boycott decision is incompatible with open democratic discourse."

In 2011, the Israeli parliament passed a law making a boycott call by an individual or organisation a civil offence which can result in compensation liable to be paid regardless of actual damage caused. It defined a boycott as "deliberately avoiding economic, cultural or academic ties with another person or another factor only because of his ties with the State of Israel, one of its institutions or an area under its control, in such a way that may cause economic, cultural or academic damage".

This article was amended on 8 May 2013. The original described Hawking as Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge. He stepped down in 2009.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/08/stephen-hawking-israel-academic-boycott

cutthemdown
05-08-2013, 09:38 PM
This will probably tilt the battle in favor of the Muslims. Oh wait no it won't.

Requiem
05-08-2013, 09:44 PM
Good for Stephen Hawking.

SoCalBronco
05-08-2013, 10:59 PM
Didn't read.

nyuk nyuk
05-08-2013, 11:46 PM
Hawking needs to focus on letting someone brush his brown teeth.

Requiem
05-09-2013, 07:41 AM
Hawking needs to focus on letting someone brush his brown teeth.

Who is gonna wipe your brown eye?

nyuk nyuk
05-09-2013, 11:02 AM
Didn't read.

I didn't either. It's pretty standard for left-leaning academics to cling to such causes. It's quite bizarre, considering that they hate Israel in the name of brutality while they endlessly defend people who strap bombs to juveniles and send them into pizza parlors.

If Muslim countries only treated all of their citizens as well as Israel treats it's own non-Jewish population.

nyuk nyuk
05-09-2013, 11:05 AM
This will probably tilt the battle in favor of the Muslims. Oh wait no it won't.

These people are screwed up.

While all we hear is prattle about how evil Israel is, we don't hear about persecutions in the West Bank of Christians by the Muslims. In some cases, they're being harassed out of towns such as Bethlehem with not a peep from the MSM. It seems rather odd that the media generally only express interest in religious persecution if it's against Muslims.

Arkie
05-09-2013, 11:39 AM
These people are screwed up.

While all we hear is prattle about how evil Israel is, we don't hear about persecutions in the West Bank of Christians by the Muslims. In some cases, they're being harassed out of towns such as Bethlehem with not a peep from the MSM. It seems rather odd that the media generally only express interest in religious persecution if it's against Muslims.

It depends on the media. Mainstream media only has two versions, and you seem to parrot the mainstream right-wing media.

nyuk nyuk
05-09-2013, 11:53 AM
It depends on the media. Mainstream media only has two versions, and you seem to parrot the mainstream right-wing media.

What mainstream right-wing media? Fox News? You're talking about ONE conservative outlet versus 4 network outlets and at least 2 cable news outlets. The 2 cable news outlets mix their journalism with social and political activism.

cutthemdown
05-09-2013, 02:30 PM
Egyptian Christians, Iraq Christians, and now Syrian Christians are all screwed. Liberals don't care though because they don't see Islamic extremsim as religion. They see them through the eyes of anti-semetism.

nyuk nyuk
05-09-2013, 03:53 PM
Egyptian Christians, Iraq Christians, and now Syrian Christians are all screwed. Liberals don't care though because they don't see Islamic extremsim as religion. They see them through the eyes of anti-semetism.

How much attention is given them in the MSM? Palestinian ones aren't exactly treated well, either.

mhgaffney
05-09-2013, 07:17 PM
I didn't either. It's pretty standard for left-leaning academics to cling to such causes. It's quite bizarre, considering that they hate Israel in the name of brutality while they endlessly defend people who strap bombs to juveniles and send them into pizza parlors.

If Muslim countries only treated all of their citizens as well as Israel treats it's own non-Jewish population.

Are you referring to the theft of lands in Palestinian ownership for more than a thousand years?

Or do you mean the ripping up of olive groves, the poisoning of wells, the raping of women, the bulldozing of homes, or the use of children for target practice?

StugotsIII
05-09-2013, 07:39 PM
Are you referring to the theft of lands in Palestinian ownership for more than a thousand years?

Or do you mean the ripping up of olive groves, the poisoning of wells, the raping of women, the bulldozing of homes, or the use of children for target practice?

It's actually starting to make sense now. You are pro muslim.


Just admit it.

Requiem
05-09-2013, 07:48 PM
The Israeli's are doing all of those things to the Palestinians. Admit it.

mhgaffney
05-09-2013, 07:48 PM
It's actually starting to make sense now. You are pro muslim.
Just admit it.

I'm not any more pro Muslim than I'm pro Buddhist, pro Hindu, pro Taoist or pro Judaeo-Christian.

I'm pro all world faiths.

Perhaps what you are missing is that I am also pro peace -- which requires me to speak out loud and clear against the US war machine. And because Israel is a favored US ally -- I also have to speak out against Israel's racist agenda.

Clear now?

BroncoBeavis
05-09-2013, 07:53 PM
Are you referring to the theft of lands in Palestinian ownership for more than a thousand years?

You keep saying this kind of crap but you can't point out to me exactly when over the last thousand years the "Palestinians" ever controlled " Palestine"

In reality the whole thing is a mythical Arab anti-Jewish construct.

DenverBrit
05-09-2013, 08:23 PM
A little 'factual' history.

Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[29] Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#Ancestral_origins

The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine

cutthemdown
05-10-2013, 12:50 AM
What do people want the USA to do? Stop giving Israel aid? put sanctions on them?

Requiem
05-10-2013, 07:03 AM
A little 'factual' history.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#Ancestral_origins



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine

DenverBrit, you are a revisionist! :~ohyah!:

DenverBrit
05-10-2013, 08:12 AM
DenverBrit, you are a revisionist! :~ohyah!:

I like 'facts' with my cornflakes. :)

houghtam
05-10-2013, 08:15 AM
What do people want the USA to do? Stop giving Israel aid? put sanctions on them?

I'll answer your question with a question.

What exactly does Israel do for the United States? Do they provide anything we can't get somewhere else or do ourselves for less trouble? We're not even their largest trading partner...they export more to China and Russia than the US.

They have no oil.

In terms of the economic factors (you know, that thing you Repugs like to talk about all the time), Israel gives us NOTHING. In terms of military? There's nothing the Israelis can do that we can't do for ourselves.

BroncoBeavis
05-10-2013, 08:30 AM
A little 'factual' history.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#Ancestral_origins



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine

Not sure if this was aimed at me. If it was, I don't see the relevance of when a term for a region was coined. You could adopt the mantle of the ancient Egyptian name for pretty much anything and it would predate (and probably contradict) the modern order of anything.

In the real world, Israel's control has gone (backwards) from Israel to the British Empire, to the Ottoman Turks, to the Egyptians with some Crusaders mixed in between, to the (Eastern Roman) Greeks, to the Romans, and Ancient Israelites, with a mix before that of Babylonian, Persian, with some more Egyptian rule sprinkled about. There has never been a real independent Palestinian state of any kind for any real duration throughout the known history of the world.

This isn't about some kind of firm national identity. It's about Islam vs Judaism. And Islam has no greater claim to (or any better prospects for) the Democratic nation of Isreal.

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 08:52 AM
You keep saying this kind of crap but you can't point out to me exactly when over the last thousand years the "Palestinians" ever controlled " Palestine"

In reality the whole thing is a mythical Arab anti-Jewish construct.

Your cute summation of world history would earn you an "F" at any university here in the states -- or anywhere in the world.

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 08:54 AM
DenverBrit, you are a revisionist! :~ohyah!:

haha

For once, Brit did some actual research. Bravo. Miracles do happen.

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 08:57 AM
Not sure if this was aimed at me. If it was, I don't see the relevance of when a term for a region was coined. You could adopt the mantle of the ancient Egyptian name for pretty much anything and it would predate (and probably contradict) the modern order of anything.

In the real world, Israel's control has gone (backwards) from Israel to the British Empire, to the Ottoman Turks, to the Egyptians with some Crusaders mixed in between, to the (Eastern Roman) Greeks, to the Romans, and Ancient Israelites, with a mix before that of Babylonian, Persian, with some more Egyptian rule sprinkled about. There has never been a real independent Palestinian state of any kind for any real duration throughout the known history of the world.

This isn't about some kind of firm national identity. It's about Islam vs Judaism. And Islam has no greater claim to (or any better prospects for) the Democratic nation of Isreal.

Wrong.

It's never been about religion. Since the birth of Zionism the struggle for Palestine has always been about real estate.

elsid13
05-10-2013, 09:04 AM
I'll answer your question with a question.

What exactly does Israel do for the United States? Do they provide anything we can't get somewhere else or do ourselves for less trouble? We're not even their largest trading partner...they export more to China and Russia than the US.

They have no oil.

In terms of the economic factors (you know, that thing you Repugs like to talk about all the time), Israel gives us NOTHING. In terms of military? There's nothing the Israelis can do that we can't do for ourselves.

Sometimes it's not about economics. Israel is western style democracy in part of the world that we have failed to gain allies from both the countries leadership and population. Democratic countries tend to be partners and have very similar agendas.

Israel does provide a us, with INTEL and stable partner we don't have anywhere else in ME.

DenverBrit
05-10-2013, 09:09 AM
Not sure if this was aimed at me. If it was, I don't see the relevance of when a term for a region was coined. You could adopt the mantle of the ancient Egyptian name for pretty much anything and it would predate (and probably contradict) the modern order of anything.

In the real world, Israel's control has gone (backwards) from Israel to the British Empire, to the Ottoman Turks, to the Egyptians with some Crusaders mixed in between, to the (Eastern Roman) Greeks, to the Romans, and Ancient Israelites, with a mix before that of Babylonian, Persian, with some more Egyptian rule sprinkled about. There has never been a real independent Palestinian state of any kind for any real duration throughout the known history of the world.

This isn't about some kind of firm national identity. It's about Islam vs Judaism. And Islam has no greater claim to (or any better prospects for) the Democratic nation of Isreal.

It was aimed at the conversation.

Both the Jews and Arabs belong there by heritage, they have to find a way to live together, there is no other choice.

DenverBrit
05-10-2013, 09:11 AM
haha

For once, Brit did some actual research. Bravo. Miracles do happen.

Research? You should try it sometime, maybe you wouldn't come across as a condescending, misinformed wackjob.

BroncoBeavis
05-10-2013, 09:15 AM
Your cute summation of world history would earn you an "F" at any university here in the states -- or anywhere in the world.

If that's the case (it isn't), then I guess it's true that education can be naked propaganda. LOL

Anyway, genius, if you've got it down pat, please tell me when it was that "The Palestinians" ruled Palestine.

And I hope (for your sake) you don't hope to invoke the Philistines.

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 09:15 AM
Sometimes it's not about economics. Israel is western style democracy in part of the world that we have failed to gain allies from both the countries leadership and population. Democratic countries tend to be partners and have very similar agendas.

Israel does provide a us, with INTEL and stable partner we don't have anywhere else in ME.

You are incredibly naive.

Check out how Israel assists in the surveillance of Americans. And btw they sell their spyware to repressive regimes like China, Saudi Arabia etc that use it to prevent democratization.

BroncoBeavis
05-10-2013, 09:22 AM
Wrong.

It's never been about religion. Since the birth of Zionism the struggle for Palestine has always been about real estate.

This is, of course, true on some level. But the same could be said of almost all of world history. The question is, why is this the one time... the one example where you want to roll the clock back, only to hand the reins of the most advanced and democratic nation in the region back to a bunch of angry third-worlders?

Do the Zoroastrians get Persia back as well? How about the Moors? Should we reinstate the Caliphate of Cordoba?

elsid13
05-10-2013, 09:24 AM
You are incredibly naive.

Check out how Israel assists in the surveillance of Americans. And btw they sell their spyware to repressive regimes like China, Saudi Arabia etc that use it to prevent democratization.

And you are incredible bitter and simple. You don't understand all the things that are really happening in the world, and the internet don't allow you to.

BroncoBeavis
05-10-2013, 09:24 AM
You are incredibly naive.

Check out how Israel assists in the surveillance of Americans. And btw they sell their spyware to repressive regimes like China, Saudi Arabia etc that use it to prevent democratization.

We do that too. I guess it's just dirtier when Ze Joos do it.

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 09:27 AM
If that's the case (it isn't), then I guess it's true that education can be naked propaganda. LOL

Anyway, genius, if you've got it down pat, please tell me when it was that "The Palestinians" ruled Palestine.

And I hope (for your sake) you don't hope to invoke the Philistines.

Your point is irrelevant.

Over history, Palestine has almost always been dominated and ruled by others -- because of its strategic location.

This was also true of ancient Israel. Does this fact negate the Jewish connection to the land? No.

Ditto for the Palestinians.

In fact, Britain promised to free the Arabs if they would assist during WW I. You are familiar with Lawrence of Arabia? The Arabs did help defeat the Ottoman Turks that were allied with Germany in WW I --

Afterwards, the Brits reneged on their word - and set up the British Mandate. This included support for a Zionist settler colony in Palestine -- which set the stage for the present conflict.

Another reason why I have no respect for British colonialism. We made a huge mistake -- following in the footsteps of the UK.
MHG

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 09:36 AM
This is, of course, true on some level. But the same could be said of almost all of world history. The question is, why is this the one time... the one example where you want to roll the clock back, only to hand the reins of the most advanced and democratic nation in the region back to a bunch of angry third-worlders?

Do the Zoroastrians get Persia back as well? How about the Moors? Should we reinstate the Caliphate of Cordoba?

Funny you mentioned Persia.

It was the ancient Persian ruler Cyrus the Great who freed the Hebrews from captivity in the 5th century BC.

The Hebrews had been carried off in chains by the Babylonian monarch Nebuchadnezzar when he invaded Palestine.

Thus, the modern Jews have good historical reasons to view Iran (Persia) as a close friend and ally. The Bible contains much evidence that the Hebrews benefitted greatly from their exposure to the rich culture and religion of ancient Persia.

Why then the current day antagonism between Israel and Iran?

Again -- it's about real estate. Iran has stood on principle -- supporting the rights of the Palestinians, which have been crushed by the Zionists.

MHG

BroncoBeavis
05-10-2013, 09:57 AM
Why then the current day antagonism between Israel and Iran?

Again -- it's about real estate. Iran has stood on principle -- supporting the rights of the Palestinians, which have been crushed by the Zionists.

MHG

"Iran has stood on principle" LOL

Dude, Persia wasn't Islamic. It was invaded by Arabs and converted by force. Much like what would happen to Israel today if your guys had their way. Pretending that Iran and Persia are the same thing is precious, but in reality is just another one of your red-herrings to avoid answering the real question...

When did the Palestinians rule Palestine? Crickets.... chirping.... chirp chirp

baja
05-10-2013, 10:06 AM
Didn't read.

Neither did Nixon.

Arkie
05-10-2013, 11:36 AM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6770/1272499386602.png

mhgaffney
05-10-2013, 05:40 PM
"Iran has stood on principle" LOL

Dude, Persia wasn't Islamic. It was invaded by Arabs and converted by force. Much like what would happen to Israel today if your guys had their way. Pretending that Iran and Persia are the same thing is precious, but in reality is just another one of your red-herrings to avoid answering the real question...

When did the Palestinians rule Palestine? Crickets.... chirping.... chirp chirp

Here are some facts to chew on:

Iran is one of the oldest and culturally richest nations on the planet.

Iran is NOT Arab -- except for the southwestern corner.

The Iranians are proud of their Persian and Islamic history.

Israel has no intention of militarily occupying and annexing Iran. Rather, Israel's present (sic) leadership simply wants to level the place --- that is -- to destroy the infrastructure of yet another nation -- to eliminate all opposition to their goal of regional hegemony.

Their regional ambition folds nicely into the US global goal of full spectrum dominance --