PDA

View Full Version : Constitution Project’s Report on Detainee Treatment


TonyR
04-17-2013, 05:55 PM
A sweeping, 577-page report by a non-partisan, 11-member task force says that never before had there been “the kind of considered and detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers on the wisdom, propriety and legality of inflicting pain and torment on some detainees in our custody.” http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/04/16/world/16torture-report.html?_r=0

...Those findings, to put it bluntly, are that for several years, the United States government systematically committed war crimes against prisoners in its custody, violating the Geneva Conventions, US domestic law, and international law. Many of these war crimes were acts of torture; many more were acts of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. All are federal crimes. None of those who authorized the war crimes has been prosecuted.

The report – which I urge you to read in full when you get the chance – dispassionately lays out all the possible legal definitions of torture (domestic and international) and then describes what the Bush administration authorized. The case is not a close one. Bush and Cheney are war criminals, as are all those involved in the implementation of these torture techniques... http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/04/16/yes-of-course-it-was-torture/

cutthemdown
04-17-2013, 06:27 PM
Blah blah ba ba blah blah Cheney. Ba Blah ba ba ba war criminal Bush. Derp a herpa baka laka durga durga.

TonyR
04-18-2013, 06:59 AM
^Typical, expected response from you. Torture goes against everything this country stands for, not to mention international law and Christian doctrine. We've lowered ourselves to the level of the Gestapa and Khmer Rouge. And you think it's something to joke around about.

nyuk nyuk
04-18-2013, 10:22 AM
I've never liked the idea of our Constitution applying to overseas alien combatants.

cutthemdown
04-18-2013, 10:49 AM
^Typical, expected response from you. Torture goes against everything this country stands for, not to mention international law and Christian doctrine. We've lowered ourselves to the level of the Gestapa and Khmer Rouge. And you think it's something to joke around about.

They shouldn't be mean to the naughty terrorists!

cutthemdown
04-18-2013, 10:52 AM
Sorry but we already heard all this stuff before and just don't think its an issue. We realize you hate Cheney but he isn't being tried for war crimes so why bother talking about it. I like to discuss issues that will really be addressed by our govt. That way we talk about real stuff not some fantasy where liberals get to charge Bush and Cheney for the war.

TonyR
04-18-2013, 10:54 AM
I like to discuss issues that will really be addressed by our govt.

LOL Oh? Which "issues that will really be addressed by our govt" do you "like to discuss"?

Pony Boy
04-18-2013, 11:05 AM
^Typical, expected response from you. Torture goes against everything this country stands for, not to mention international law and Christian doctrine. We've lowered ourselves to the level of the Gestapa and Khmer Rouge. And you think it's something to joke around about.

JFC ..... you're a p***Y.......you need to grow a pair

TonyR
04-18-2013, 11:20 AM
JFC ..... you're a p***Y.......you need to grow a pair

Imagine my surprise that the weight of this issue is lost on you! :rofl:

Beyond that, what did I say that you don't agree with?

Since I have a suspicion that reading probably isn't your forte, here's a quick video on the release of the report:

<object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc16d9c0" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=10,0,0,0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" /><param name="FlashVars" value="launch=51562838&amp;width=420&amp;height=245" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed name="msnbc16d9c0" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" width="420" height="245" FlashVars="launch=51562838&amp;width=420&amp;height=245" allowscriptaccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 420px;">Visit NBCNews.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.nbcnews.com">breaking news</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">world news</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">news about the economy</a></p>

Pony Boy
04-18-2013, 11:53 AM
Imagine my surprise that the weight of this issue is lost on you! :rofl:

Beyond that, what did I say that you don't agree with?>

On taking office in 2009, President Obama declined to undertake or commission an official study of what happened, saying it was unproductive to “look backwards” rather than forward.

The Constitution Project’s Task Force on Detainee Treatment is an independent, bipartisan, blue-ribbon panel not approved or sanctioned by the congress and the investigation proceeded without the advantages of subpoena power or access to classified information.

http://detaineetaskforce.org/

mhgaffney
04-18-2013, 12:06 PM
I've never liked the idea of our Constitution applying to overseas alien combatants.

Yeah -- like the 200 children murdered by US drones in the last couple of years -- not to mention the hundreds of innocent people attending funerals and weddings that we killed.

Ooops.

TonyR
04-18-2013, 05:22 PM
On taking office in 2009, President Obama declined to undertake or commission an official study of what happened...

Yup, Obama isn't innocent in all of this.

The disgrace of the American torture regime falls on Bush officials and secondarily the media and political institutions that acquiesced to it, but the full-scale protection of those war crimes (and the denial of justice to their victims) falls squarely on the Obama administration. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/18/torture-report-cnn-terrorism-iran

errand
04-18-2013, 05:26 PM
^Typical, expected response from you. Torture goes against everything this country stands for, not to mention international law and Christian doctrine. We've lowered ourselves to the level of the Gestapa and Khmer Rouge. And you think it's something to joke around about.

So what level did we sink to when Roosevelt interned Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor? Talk about Gestapo and Khmer Rouge....isn't that the same thing as a concentration camp?

errand
04-18-2013, 05:28 PM
LOL Oh? Which "issues that will really be addressed by our govt" do you "like to discuss"?


Well since Obama has kept Getmo open, does that mean any "torture" going on means he too is a war criminal?

TonyR
04-18-2013, 05:29 PM
So what level did we sink to when Roosevelt interned Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor? Talk about Gestapo and Khmer Rouge....isn't that the same thing as a concentration camp?

I don't know, did they torture those interned?

TonyR
04-18-2013, 05:32 PM
Well since Obama has kept Getmo open, does that mean any "torture" going on means he too is a war criminal?

As I mentioned in a previous post, the Obama administration is guilty of protecting war criminals. If there is torture still going on at Gitmo, which I don't think there is since Obama stopped the Bush admin torture policy, then I suppose he would also be a "war criminal".

mhgaffney
04-18-2013, 05:45 PM
As I mentioned in a previous post, the Obama administration is guilty of protecting war criminals. If there is torture still going on at Gitmo, which I don't think there is since Obama stopped the Bush admin torture policy, then I suppose he would also be a "war criminal".

Last I heard there was a hunger strike underway at Gitmo -- though the US media was hardly covering it.

Same old shyte.

bowtown
04-18-2013, 05:47 PM
So what level did we sink to when Roosevelt interned Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor? Talk about Gestapo and Khmer Rouge....isn't that the same thing as a concentration camp?

Pretty close to concentration camps.. It was a horrible mark on our nation's past, motivated by fear and prejudice. How does that make this report any less atrocious?

TonyR
04-19-2013, 06:34 AM
How does that make this report any less atrocious?

^ Yup, I was wondering the same.

TonyR
04-23-2013, 09:03 AM
The first US citizen, Jose Padilla, was captured on US soil, detained without formal charges, accused of plotting a dirty bomb, and then brutally tortured until he was a human wreck. Eventually, the dirty bomb charges were dropped in the legal process. And there was a serious question about whether, after such brutal torture and isolation, he had been psychologically brutalized by his own government to the point of insanity.

Tsarnaev, in contrast, was formally charged this morning, will be tried in a civilian court, go through due process, and face a weight of evidence against him.

This is why we elected Obama. To bring America back. To defend this country without betraying its core principles. http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/04/22/padilla-vs-tsarnaev-bush-vs-obama/

cutthemdown
04-28-2013, 12:30 AM
They are all on a hunger strike. Just let them starve and be done with it. If someone is so stupid they won't eat why should we care? You provide them access to food, they don't want to eat so be it. Hell this problem may solve itself if 300-400 of them die.

cutthemdown
04-28-2013, 12:32 AM
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/04/22/padilla-vs-tsarnaev-bush-vs-obama/

Did we bring him back to have a guy on the terror watch list travel to Russia, get pinged so we knew he did, then come back and blow us up? Awesome.

TonyR
04-30-2013, 09:15 AM
http://www.rollcall.com/news/biden_backs_public_disclosure_of_torture_report-224389-1.html?pos=hln

TonyR
04-30-2013, 12:28 PM
From a Gitmo detainee journal:

My first thought was, they mistook me for somebody else. My second thought was to try to look around, but one of the guards was squeezing my face against the floor. I saw the dog fighting to get loose. I saw [-------] standing up, looking helpless at the guards working on me. “Blindfold the mother****er! He’s trying to look—” One of them hit me hard across the face and quickly put goggles on my eyes, earmuffs on my ears, and a small bag over my head. They tightened the chains around my ankles and my wrists; afterward I started to bleed. All I could hear was [-------] cursing, “F-ing this and F-ing that.” I thought they were going to execute me.

The other guard dragged me out with my toes tracing the way, and threw me in a truck, which immediately took off. The beating party would last for the next three to four hours, before they turned me over to another team that would use different torture techniques. “Stop praying, mother****er. You’re killing people,” [-------] said, and punched me hard on my mouth. My mouth and nose started to bleed, and my lips grew so big that I technically could not speak anymore. The colleague of [-------] turned out to be one of my guards; [-------] and [-------] each took one of my sides and started to punch me and smash me against the metal of the truck. One of the guys hit me so that my breath stopped and I was choking. I felt like I was breathing through my ribs. …

Inside the boat, [-------] made me drink salt water, I believe it was direct from the ocean. It was so nasty I threw it up. They put an object in my mouth and shouted, “Swallow, mother****er!” I decided inside not to swallow the organ-damaging salt water, which choked me as they kept pouring the water in my mouth. “Swallow, you idiot!” I contemplated quickly, and decided for the nasty, damaging water rather than death.

[-------] and [-------] had been escorting me for about three hours in the high-speed boat. The goal of such trip was, first, to torture the detainee and claim that the “detainee hurt himself during transport,” and second to make the detainee believe he is being transferred to some far faraway secret prison. We detainees knew all about this; we had detainees who reported flying four hours and finding themselves in the same jail where they started. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2013/04/mohamedou_ould_slahi_s_guantanamo_memoirs_part_1_t he_endless_interrogations.html

cutthemdown
04-30-2013, 07:31 PM
That's some good stuff TonyR thanks for sharing. It's almost like how Theon Greyjoy getting ****ed with on Game of Thrones.

TonyR
05-06-2013, 08:54 AM
That's some good stuff TonyR thanks for sharing.

It's good to know that you find Verschaerfte Vernehmung to be "good stuff"...

cutthemdown
05-06-2013, 03:33 PM
I love compelling stories. I can't wait to see how it all ends!

cutthemdown
05-06-2013, 03:37 PM
if you think about it Tony no war movies are ever as popular as the German ones. Shocking they were but also interesting and compelling to hear the stories. I still think the story of us imprisoning Japanese in WW2 is more shocking then Gitmo and our reaction to 9-11. Still though it shows America reacts over the top when we get attackes. It's sort of been that way for a long long time.

I mean seriously FDR like the poster boy of liberalism and even he got forced into treating Japanese Americans like criminals. I won't say that was his fault because he had a really racist country to deal with. but still our track record is we are some racist SOBS when we get attacked and we throw down after with an over the top attack.

baja
05-06-2013, 03:59 PM
Blah blah ba ba blah blah Cheney. Ba Blah ba ba ba war criminal Bush. Derp a herpa baka laka durga durga.


....and it will continue because of attitudes just like yours.

The USA has become the leading global terrorist

Obama hasn't missed a tick since taking over for Bush.


The USA is the most hated and feared nation in the world today.

All this criminal activity is being conducted by global power structures that have gotten control of the US Government and America is getting the blame for these atrocities being committed routinely around the world.

cutthemdown
05-07-2013, 12:29 AM
Baja but I work for the global power structure. Not saying it won't suck for you though. :) I work at the factory that makes the machines! I know you are a bad machine Baja.

cutthemdown
05-07-2013, 12:29 AM
Baja do you think Japan, S Korea, etc fear us more then N Korea?