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View Full Version : North Korea Declares War on S. Korea / US


Taco John
03-30-2013, 03:09 AM
Full war declaration statement from DPRK (via KCNA):

The moves of the U.S. imperialists to violate the sovereignty of the DPRK and encroach upon its supreme interests have entered an extremely grave phase. Under this situation, the dear respected Marshal Kim Jong Un, brilliant commander of Mt. Paektu, convened an urgent operation meeting on the performance of duty of the Strategic Rocket Force of the Korean People's Army for firepower strike and finally examined and ratified a plan for firepower strike.

The important decision made by him is the declaration of a do-or-die battle to provide an epochal occasion for putting an end to the history of the long-standing showdown with the U.S. and opening a new era. It is also a last warning of justice served to the U.S., south Korean group and other anti-reunification hostile forces. The decision reflects the strong will of the army and people of the DPRK to annihilate the enemies.

Now the heroic service personnel and all other people of the DPRK are full of surging anger at the U.S. imperialists' reckless war provocation moves, and the strong will to turn out as one in the death-defying battle with the enemies and achieve a final victory of the great war for national reunification true to the important decision made by Kim Jong Un.

The Supreme Command of the KPA in its previous statement solemnly declared at home and abroad the will of the army and people of the DPRK to take decisive military counteraction to defend the sovereignty of the country and the dignity of its supreme leadership as regards the war moves of the U.S. and south Korean puppets that have reached the most extreme phase.

Not content with letting B-52 make sorties into the sky over south Korea in succession despite the repeated warnings of the DPRK, the U.S. made B-2A stealth strategic bomber and other ultra-modern strategic strike means fly from the U.S. mainland to south Korea to stage a bombing drill targeting the DPRK. This is an unpardonable and heinous provocation and an open challenge.

By taking advantage of the U.S. reckless campaign for a nuclear war against the DPRK, the south Korean puppets vociferated about "preemptive attack" and "strong counteraction" and even "strike at the commanding forces", openly revealing the attempt to destroy monuments symbolic of the dignity of the DPRK's supreme leadership.

This clearly shows that the U.S. brigandish ambition for aggression and the puppets' attempt to invade the DPRK have gone beyond the limit and their threats have entered the reckless phase of an actual war from the phase of threat and blackmail.

The prevailing grim situation more clearly proves that the Supreme Command of the KPA was just when it made the judgment and decision to decisively settle accounts with the U.S. imperialists and south Korean puppets by dint of the arms of Songun, because time when words could work has passed.

Now they are openly claiming that the B-2A stealth strategic bombers' drill of dropping nuclear bombs was "not to irritate the north" but "the defensive one". The U.S. also says the drill is "to defend the interests of its ally". However, it is nothing but a lame pretext to cover up its aggressive nature, evade the denunciation at home and abroad and escape from the DPRK's retaliatory blows.

The era when the U.S. resorted to the policy of strength by brandishing nuclear weapons has gone.

It is the resolute answer of the DPRK and its steadfast stand to counter the nuclear blackmail of the U.S. imperialists with merciless nuclear attack and their war of aggression with just all-out war.

They should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past.

The hostile forces will clearly realize the iron will, matchless grit and extraordinary mettle of the brilliant commander of Mt. Paektu that the earth cannot exist without Songun Korea.

Time has come to stage a do-or-die final battle.

The government, political parties and organizations of the DPRK solemnly declare as follows reflecting the final decision made by Kim Jong Un at the operation meeting of the KPA Supreme Command and the unanimous will of all service personnel and people of the DPRK who are waiting for a final order from him.

1.From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war and all the issues arousing between the north and the south will be dealt with according to the wartime regulations.

The state of neither peace nor war has ended on the Korean Peninsula.

Now that the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK have entered into an actual military action, the inter-Korean relations have naturally entered the state of war. Accordingly, the DPRK will immediately punish any slightest provocation hurting its dignity and sovereignty with resolute and merciless physical actions without any prior notice.

2. If the U.S. and the south Korean puppet group perpetrate a military provocation for igniting a war against the DPRK in any area including the five islands in the West Sea of Korea or in the area along the Military Demarcation Line, it will not be limited to a local war, but develop into an all-out war, a nuclear war.

It is self-evident that any military conflict on the Korean Peninsula is bound to lead to an all-out war, a nuclear war now that even U.S. nuclear strategic bombers in its military bases in the Pacific including Hawaii and Guam and in its mainland are flying into the sky above south Korea to participate in the madcap DPRK-targeted nuclear war moves.

The first strike of the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK will blow up the U.S. bases for aggression in its mainland and in the Pacific operational theatres including Hawaii and Guam and reduce not only its military bases in south Korea but the puppets' ruling institutions including Chongwadae and puppet army's bases to ashes at once, to say nothing of the aggressors and the provokers.

3. The DPRK will never miss the golden chance to win a final victory in a great war for national reunification.

This war will not be a three day-war but it will be a blitz war through which the KPA will occupy all areas of south Korea including Jeju Island at one strike, not giving the U.S. and the puppet warmongers time to come to their senses, and a three-dimensional war to be fought in the air, land and seas and on the front line and in the rear.

This sacred war of justice will be a nation-wide, all-people resistance involving all Koreans in the north and the south and overseas in which the traitors to the nation including heinous confrontation maniacs, warmongers and human scum will be mercilessly swept away.

No force on earth can break the will of the service personnel and people of the DPRK all out in the just great war for national reunification and of all other Koreans and overpower their might.

Holding in high esteem the peerlessly great men of Mt. Paektu, the Korean people will give vent to the pent-up grudge and realize their cherished desire and thus bring a bright day of national reunification and build the best power on this land without fail.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_Korea/70001409

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-30-2013, 04:14 AM
Hope my friends in South Korea stay safe.

broncobum6162
03-30-2013, 04:37 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah....more empty rhetoric from an even bigger idiot than his daddy...

tesnyde
03-30-2013, 05:07 AM
The war never officially ended.

StugotsIII
03-30-2013, 05:21 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah....more empty rhetoric from an even bigger idiot than his daddy...

Right…more empty rhetoric…with missile testing.


We should probably do nothing about it and just wait for him to launch missiles that start killing people.

Atwater His Ass
03-30-2013, 05:46 AM
They've had this "military first" policy for quite some time now. This is their response to the US flying nuclear launch capable B-2's from the US to the Korean peninsula this week. The north is super sensistive to that, considering the bombings they took during the Korean war.

They use these opportunities to release propaganda and get the public behind the military policy. It's as much for the domestic audienence as it is for the rest of the world.

I would keep in mind though, the US may have been more interesting in proving this capability to South Korea and Japan, our allies in the region, perhaps with the overall goal of preventing South Korea from doing anything rash, knowing they have backup.

Something does need to be done though before they do develop the capability to develop a nuclear weapon with a long range delivery system.

ND Bronco Fan
03-30-2013, 06:08 AM
TPS---Tiny Penis Syndrome........

Bring it you little midget....make one slip up and this problem will be resolved forever, I actually hope he tries it.....for North Korea and their people to be free and reunify with the south i think we all would agree is a good thing. Plus I want to know really how many people are in the prison camps and how bad it really is there, it needs to stop so bring it Kim....our armed forces will be waiting.

Atwater His Ass
03-30-2013, 06:12 AM
I've read some interesting points, I wasn't aware of, that claim that North Korea only has enough fuel for operate their military for 30 days in a state of war. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, it means that any attack they would execute would have to be quick and desicive in nature as they couldn't prolong the confrontation. Bad news for Seoul, as they would probably be the hard hit destination before allied forces could react.

B-Large
03-30-2013, 06:29 AM
The people of North Korea are likely praying for war and regime change...

SeedReaver
03-30-2013, 06:36 AM
The people of North Korea are likely praying for war and regime change...

They don't know any better.

TheReverend
03-30-2013, 06:41 AM
Lold at greatest ever commander.

Is it April fools day in Korea?

Dr. Broncenstein
03-30-2013, 06:45 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mchoyxReHx1qd49glo1_500.jpg

2KBack
03-30-2013, 06:53 AM
http://www.cracked.com/article_17165_6-reasons-north-korea-funniest-evil-dictatorship-ever.html

2KBack
03-30-2013, 06:57 AM
http://thecount.com/wp-content/uploads/kim-jong-un-respect-my-authoritah.jpg

Chris
03-30-2013, 07:11 AM
Get laid, man.

Kaylore
03-30-2013, 07:20 AM
The son is only doing what the father was doing but louder and more tantrum like. I love Korea. I have friends I am still in contact with there and I am legitimately worried about them, but as was mentioned, officially, North and South Korea have been "at war" since the 50's, so this really doesn't change anything.

goldengopher1976
03-30-2013, 07:37 AM
Best line of the announcement:

They should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past.

Chris
03-30-2013, 07:38 AM
So ronery.

B-Large
03-30-2013, 08:20 AM
They don't know any better.

They know, anybody whose being suppressed and live in fear knows... Just to scared to do anything about it

Rohirrim
03-30-2013, 08:23 AM
I spent some months on that DMZ living in the caves and tunnels. I remember we had a pep talk from some general who told us that if the NK attacked we would have 90% casualties. The other 10% would be on leave.

I think he was trying to inspire us. ;D

Anyway, our guys probably wouldn't make it back over the Imjin River. There are massive artillery batteries lined up behind both sides of that border. I don't know how quickly we could gain air superiority. I imagine, for the majority of the troops up there, it would be their first combat. Then, you have to wonder what China would do. They have the largest army on Earth. You always have to wonder if this isn't their puppet following their orders. Let's hope this is just the same old talk from the same old crazies.

I would hate to die in a ****ing tunnel.

baja
03-30-2013, 09:18 AM
All these years of tolerating this Regime of horror....

Tell me why we had to attack Iraq again??

Denver724
03-30-2013, 09:40 AM
I thought Rodman had this taken care of.

Los Broncos
03-30-2013, 09:46 AM
If they do attack, does Obama drop the hammer?

Mediator12
03-30-2013, 09:48 AM
All these years of tolerating this Regime of horror....

Tell me why we had to attack Iraq again??

Well, the guys who actually attacked america and other countries, instead of just using words like the best ever commander ever were from that region. Oh yeah, and they have oil the last time I checked. They were an immediate threat to world peace and commerce.

The NK's are a proud and rascist people who believe they should be at the center of the world, even though they never have been or will be. They are led by sociopaths with no balls but plenty of bluster. I bet the fat guy has never had to do a 5 mile march with a rucksack, but man is he ready to go to war!

They believe they would rather wipe out a whole people, than not be in control. True Sociopathy at a nation state level. However, they are not capable of doing a lot of what they say, and certainly don't want to actually die trying. Freaking nightmare, but at least they are weak minded....

peacepipe
03-30-2013, 09:55 AM
Well, the guys who actually attacked america and other countries, instead of just using words like the best ever commander ever were from that region. Oh yeah, and they have oil the last time I checked. They were an immediate threat to world peace and commerce.

The NK's are a proud and rascist people who believe they should be at the center of the world, even though they never have been or will be. They are led by sociopaths with no balls but plenty of bluster. I bet the fat guy has never had to do a 5 mile march with a rucksack, but man is he ready to go to war!

They believe they would rather wipe out a whole people, than not be in control. True Sociopathy at a nation state level. However, they are not capable of doing a lot of what they say, and certainly don't want to actually die trying. Freaking nightmare, but at least they are weak minded....when did Iraq attack America? Or am I misreading this.

Rohirrim
03-30-2013, 10:18 AM
when did Iraq attack America? Or am I misreading this.

Didn't you listen to Dick Cheney? Saddam was behind 911.

Dukes
03-30-2013, 10:20 AM
There are no birds left in America, I have no idea how we would win against the great Un.

Willynowei
03-30-2013, 10:20 AM
You invade Iraq to protect the petro dollar, improve relations and stability in the region for our interests, and you get access to their oil reserves that you have someone manage with the interests of US companies in mind.

Iraq invasion seems to have some pretty decent reasoning behind it to me.

Whats in North Korea? Poor people. The only thing you do by invading North Korea is make China think you're trying to get American spy planes closer inland.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2013, 10:22 AM
All these years of tolerating this Regime of horror....

Tell me why we had to attack Iraq again??

I didn't realize Mexico attack Iraq.

Dukes
03-30-2013, 10:22 AM
This is worth posting again

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S7Kq78G2nxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tombstone RJ
03-30-2013, 10:26 AM
Full war declaration statement from DPRK (via KCNA):


http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_Korea/70001409

I don't think this is the first time that N. Korea has rattled its sabers rather loudly, the question is how serious are they? There's a new leader in N.Korea and this may be his first big test since taking over, that is, his dad did this type of stuff pretty regularly so is this another bark with no bite or is this really war?

baja
03-30-2013, 10:29 AM
Well, the guys who actually attacked america and other countries, instead of just using words like the best ever commander ever were from that region. Oh yeah, and they have oil the last time I checked. They were an immediate threat to world peace and commerce.

The NK's are a proud and rascist people who believe they should be at the center of the world, even though they never have been or will be. They are led by sociopaths with no balls but plenty of bluster. I bet the fat guy has never had to do a 5 mile march with a rucksack, but man is he ready to go to war!

They believe they would rather wipe out a whole people, than not be in control. True Sociopathy at a nation state level. However, they are not capable of doing a lot of what they say, and certainly don't want to actually die trying. Freaking nightmare, but at least they are weak minded....

Well that's very interesting maybe you could enlighten me as to when Iraq attacked the United States?

baja
03-30-2013, 10:36 AM
You invade Iraq to protect the petro dollar, improve relations and stability in the region for our interests, and you get access to their oil reserves that you have someone manage with the interests of US companies in mind.

Iraq invasion seems to have some pretty decent reasoning behind it to me.

Whats in North Korea? Poor people. The only thing you do by invading North Korea is make China think you're trying to get American spy planes closer inland.

Wow Dick Chaney is posting here.

UberBroncoMan
03-30-2013, 10:55 AM
The people of North Korea are likely praying for war and regime change...

They don't know any better.

What Seed said. They are taught an entirely difference and completely fabricated history in North Korea. One where WE invaded them in the Korean War and they defeated us. Tons of other BS too. Basically, they are taught to hate us and to worship the leader of their nation on the level of a deity. A nation of clueless people living in an alternate reality. It's like a ****ed up version of The Truman Show.

Swedish Extrovert
03-30-2013, 11:00 AM
**** it... send in the SEALs to extract Un. Let democracy take its course.

We can dream.

Drunk Monkey
03-30-2013, 11:21 AM
I spent some months on that DMZ living in the caves and tunnels. I remember we had a pep talk from some general who told us that if the NK attacked we would have 90% casualties. The other 10% would be on leave.

I think he was trying to inspire us. ;D

Anyway, our guys probably wouldn't make it back over the Imjin River. There are massive artillery batteries lined up behind both sides of that border. I don't know how quickly we could gain air superiority. I imagine, for the majority of the troops up there, it would be their first combat. Then, you have to wonder what China would do. They have the largest army on Earth. You always have to wonder if this isn't their puppet following their orders. Let's hope this is just the same old talk from the same old crazies.

I would hate to die in a ****ing tunnel.

N Korea is China's burden not puppet. If something goes down China is going to wake up to 25 million refugees flooding their border.

Bacchus
03-30-2013, 11:27 AM
YAWN... nothing to see here, just North Korea looking for a little attention. I'm sure the Neocons will be screaming for war.

Kaylore
03-30-2013, 11:30 AM
Best line of the announcement:

They should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/baphomet999/Response/consequencesWillNeverBeTheSame.jpg

loborugger
03-30-2013, 11:32 AM
Before launching their war at the US, North Korea first plans to conquer Middle Earth. They have also decided to back the Emperor Palpatine against the Alliance.

Cito Pelon
03-30-2013, 11:48 AM
I spent some months on that DMZ living in the caves and tunnels. I remember we had a pep talk from some general who told us that if the NK attacked we would have 90% casualties. The other 10% would be on leave.

I think he was trying to inspire us. ;D

Anyway, our guys probably wouldn't make it back over the Imjin River. There are massive artillery batteries lined up behind both sides of that border. I don't know how quickly we could gain air superiority. I imagine, for the majority of the troops up there, it would be their first combat. Then, you have to wonder what China would do. They have the largest army on Earth. You always have to wonder if this isn't their puppet following their orders. Let's hope this is just the same old talk from the same old crazies.

I would hate to die in a ****ing tunnel.

I think China is playing two different hands with NK. One, they want them to be a thorn in the side of the US and Japan. Also, with Russia.

But second, they don't REALLY want a nuclear-armed NK, after all Beijing is pretty close. The original Kim, Kim Il-sung never visited China, but he had a close relationship with the old USSR. Kim Jong-Il played the Russia card many times against Beijing. If he didn't like what Beijing was telling him, he'd jump on his train to Russia (they do have a common border, which no doubt has pissed Beijing off since the Treaty of Tientsin after the Second Opium War I believe it was that established that border).

There's been some interesting dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea over the years. People talk about the land grabs by Britain mostly, but Russia under the Czars also made some HUGE land grabs from China in the 19th century.

Russia also grabbed much of Manchuria after the Boxer Wars in 1901. And the USSR and China also had some major conflicts prior to WWII. So China has been trying to reduce Moscow's influence in NKorea since WWII. No doubt there are many in the Chinese leadership that would like to have their old sphere of influence in East Asia back that the Czars and the USSR took.

They currently rattle their swords at the US and Japan mostly right now, because the Russians are their temporary allies against the West.

Well, anyway, the dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea are pretty interesting reading.

Rohirrim
03-30-2013, 11:48 AM
N Korea is China's burden not puppet. If something goes down China is going to wake up to 25 million refugees flooding their border.

China backed them up in the first war. Why not now? You think they don't want to destabilize the Sea of Japan and their economic competitors? They haven't become much more aggressive, ever adding to their huge army, building a larger navy, claiming islands? You don't think they'd love to see South Korea destroyed, a democratic country that proves the success of freedom over their brand of rigidly controlled communism? You don't think they want Taiwan back?

Don't ever assume China's motives. This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China. They absolutely love to send out their little test balloons. Fortunately, I assume our military leaders, and South Korea's, see it the same way.

Requiem
03-30-2013, 12:02 PM
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/284/890/26b.jpg

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/284/900/35f.jpg

rmsanger
03-30-2013, 12:06 PM
rutroh

Cito Pelon
03-30-2013, 12:13 PM
China backed them up in the first war. Why not now? You think they don't want to destabilize the Sea of Japan and their economic competitors? They haven't become much more aggressive, ever adding to their huge army, building a larger navy, claiming islands? You don't think they'd love to see South Korea destroyed, a democratic country that proves the success of freedom over their brand of rigidly controlled communism? You don't think they want Taiwan back?

Don't ever assume China's motives. This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China. They absolutely love to send out their little test balloons. Fortunately, I assume our military leaders, and South Korea's, see it the same way.

Actually, China didn't get involved in the Korean Conflict until the Allied forces got close to the NK/Chinese border. At the time, Mao and the Soviets were closely aligned, but Stalin was calling most of the shots I believe.

After 1953, I believe Mao began to resent the amount of Soviet influence in the region, although their longterm strategic interests coincided. And that continued through Kruschev.

But I do agree with "This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China". I find this whole continuing East Asia Six-Party talks deal very interesting for future geopolitical dynamics.

kappys
03-30-2013, 01:04 PM
Always have to wonder how much of this has to do with internal politics. Initially there was some thought that the new Kim having been in the West for a period might be open to actual reform - there was almost some hope when he initially took over. I wonder if this was a concern among the generals too and now Kim is being forced back into the old pattern to keep the generals happy and himself in power.

I think this shows that we have another long long wait on our hands for any real reforms in NK. It would take a charismatic leader to actually get the generals out of their old ways of thinking and this young Kim does not inspire much confidence does he?

Broncos_OTM
03-30-2013, 01:07 PM
The oppression of NK needs to come to a close..eff it lets do this

Willynowei
03-30-2013, 01:19 PM
China backed them up in the first war. Why not now? You think they don't want to destabilize the Sea of Japan and their economic competitors? They haven't become much more aggressive, ever adding to their huge army, building a larger navy, claiming islands? You don't think they'd love to see South Korea destroyed, a democratic country that proves the success of freedom over their brand of rigidly controlled communism? You don't think they want Taiwan back?

Don't ever assume China's motives. This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China. They absolutely love to send out their little test balloons. Fortunately, I assume our military leaders, and South Korea's, see it the same way.

Dude, pick up a ****ing book, or go visit China, you're wayyyyyy off.

gyldenlove
03-30-2013, 01:19 PM
I think China is playing two different hands with NK. One, they want them to be a thorn in the side of the US and Japan. Also, with Russia.

But second, they don't REALLY want a nuclear-armed NK, after all Beijing is pretty close. The original Kim, Kim Il-sung never visited China, but he had a close relationship with the old USSR. Kim Jong-Il played the Russia card many times against Beijing. If he didn't like what Beijing was telling him, he'd jump on his train to Russia (they do have a common border, which no doubt has pissed Beijing off since the Treaty of Tientsin after the Second Opium War I believe it was that established that border).

There's been some interesting dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea over the years. People talk about the land grabs by Britain mostly, but Russia under the Czars also made some HUGE land grabs from China in the 19th century.

Russia also grabbed much of Manchuria after the Boxer Wars in 1901. And the USSR and China also had some major conflicts prior to WWII. So China has been trying to reduce Moscow's influence in NKorea since WWII. No doubt there are many in the Chinese leadership that would like to have their old sphere of influence in East Asia back that the Czars and the USSR took.

They currently rattle their swords at the US and Japan mostly right now, because the Russians are their temporary allies against the West.

Well, anyway, the dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea are pretty interesting reading.

Russia lost control of most of Manchuria to Japan around the time of world war I, they gained back control of parts of it in 1925 but lost it to Japan in world war 2. The Russians took it back in 1945 and the Chinese communists took it over in 1949 and used it as the power base to launch the Chinese revolution.

Kim Il Sung spend a lot of time in China, he grew up in Manchuria, he was a member of the chinese communist party in the 1930s and fought in chinese guerrilla groups against the Japanese in Manchuria, he later became a political officer of the chinese communist party.

Kim Il Sung had pretty tight relations with Mao, but after his death and the reforms of Deng Xiaopeng relations with China deteriorated as China no longer had any need to trade with North Korea when they opened up trades with Europe and especially North America.

Neither China nor Russia have strong political influence in North Korea these days, China has closed their borders completely to North Korea. China has an interest in North Korea keeping South Korea from becoming a dominant asian economy, but China has no interest in an all out war, firstly North Korea is very close to China and should it come to nuclear war the fallout will be felt in China, it will also shut down a lot of shipping which China relies heavily on for imports and exports.

OBF1
03-30-2013, 01:27 PM
I thought Rodman had this taken care of.

That is why North Korea is so pissed off... They thought Rodman was Obama.

Willynowei
03-30-2013, 01:31 PM
What China wants is status quo in NK, its the only thing that makes sense, China wants the oil off of Senkaku, they want Taiwan. What they don't want is ownership of a chunk of dirt that currently buffers them against American allies. And as Cito says, they all hate each other (Russia, China, NK), in fact they all hate each other infinitely more than they dislike America (whom they really love, except when the U.S. is busy pitting everyone against each other to avoid the establishment of true hegemony by any of them).

Cito Pelon
03-30-2013, 01:38 PM
Always have to wonder how much of this has to do with internal politics. Initially there was some thought that the new Kim having been in the West for a period might be open to actual reform - there was almost some hope when he initially took over. I wonder if this was a concern among the generals too and now Kim is being forced back into the old pattern to keep the generals happy and himself in power.

I think this shows that we have another long long wait on our hands for any real reforms in NK. It would take a charismatic leader to actually get the generals out of their old ways of thinking and this young Kim does not inspire much confidence does he?

I believe the current Kim was the only one of Jong-Il's sons that DID NOT embrace the West. He was the youngest of them all, right? I read something about Jong-Il's sons going playboy in Switzerland, Macau, on Facebook, etc., but Jong-Un came back from school in Switzerland and stayed in NKorea, and that's why he was chosen as the new Super-Commander.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out. East Asia is kind of a hotspot. Lot's of big players in geopolitics in that region, strong economies with Japan, China, SKorea, lots of oil, and of course Russia wants to stay a big player in that region as well as the US.

Japan keeps trying to amend their constitution to be more of an offensive military, and China/NKorea is scared sh*tless of that happening. Throw in the Phillipines also, they have a Muslim insurgency and have had conflicts with China. China has their fingers on the Phillipines for sure.

Broncojef
03-30-2013, 01:40 PM
The North Korean people are in a land lost in time. No other country on the planet is as shut off or isolated. A few idiots in charge spewing proaganda and telling the populace what reality is. I'd love to take a common North Korean person around America for a week, I bet they'd be in awe. I still remember the space shuttle pictures of lights over land masses, yet North Korea was always dark, such a shame people live like that and are unaware how the rest of the world really lives. We are totally blessed to live in this nation.

Willynowei
03-30-2013, 01:47 PM
I believe the current Kim was the only one of Jong-Il's sons that DID NOT embrace the West. He was the youngest of them all, right? I read something about Jong-Il's sons going playboy in Switzerland, Macau, on Facebook, etc., but Jong-Un came back from school in Switzerland and stayed in NKorea, and that's why he was chosen as the new Super-Commander.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out. East Asia is kind of a hotspot. Lot's of big players in geopolitics in that region, strong economies with Japan, China, SKorea, lots of oil, and of course Russia wants to stay a big player in that region as well as the US.

Japan keeps trying to amend their constitution to be more of an offensive military, and China/NKorea is scared sh*tless of that happening. Throw in the Phillipines also, they have a Muslim insurgency and have had conflicts with China. China has their fingers on the Phillipines for sure.

I don't know that scared ****less is the right terminology as Chinese military spending per year is roughly equivalent to Japan, the UK, France, and Russia combined. If they keep spending at such a high rate, only the U.S. will really be able to push them around out there. Example of what that military spending is leading to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

I think China welcomes Japan getting aggressive, because then Japan can't play the victim card, and the U.S. can't as easily get involved.

I just don't see NK as a player in this area, they are the little kid no one pays attention to.

Kaylore
03-30-2013, 01:55 PM
This photo sums up North Korea.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg

Meck77
03-30-2013, 01:56 PM
Well our government said they needed an extra 1,600,000,000 bullets.

Who would have thought we would have gotten ourselves in 20+ years of war because Saddam launched a few scuds at Israel. It's been a mess since. Saddam had no chance of defeating Israel yet was crazy enough to lob some rockets at them.

Israel could have just smashed Iraq themselves and we would have sparred ourselves a lot of blood, trillions of dollars, 9-11, and possibly a recession. Hell our government faces shutting down monthly now while taxes are going up across the board. Something will have to give.

North Korea? Who knows what the Military Industrial Complex will come up with next.

Cito Pelon
03-30-2013, 02:03 PM
Russia lost control of most of Manchuria to Japan around the time of world war I, they gained back control of parts of it in 1925 but lost it to Japan in world war 2. The Russians took it back in 1945 and the Chinese communists took it over in 1949 and used it as the power base to launch the Chinese revolution.

Kim Il Sung spend a lot of time in China, he grew up in Manchuria, he was a member of the chinese communist party in the 1930s and fought in chinese guerrilla groups against the Japanese in Manchuria, he later became a political officer of the chinese communist party.

Kim Il Sung had pretty tight relations with Mao, but after his death and the reforms of Deng Xiaopeng relations with China deteriorated as China no longer had any need to trade with North Korea when they opened up trades with Europe and especially North America.

Neither China nor Russia have strong political influence in North Korea these days, China has closed their borders completely to North Korea. China has an interest in North Korea keeping South Korea from becoming a dominant asian economy, but China has no interest in an all out war, firstly North Korea is very close to China and should it come to nuclear war the fallout will be felt in China, it will also shut down a lot of shipping which China relies heavily on for imports and exports.

Well, that's somewhat true. The Russians still control the parts of Manchuria they took way back under the Czars in the 19th century. Particularly the coastal area on the Sea of Japan and the border to North Korea. Then there was some land grabs by the Czars after the Boxer Wars in 1901 that included Mongolia I believe.

Yeah, there was some change of hands after the 1905 Russia-Japanese war, and more change of hands after 1944 when I believe Russia took Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands.

As I said, there has been some interesting dynamics in East Asia, and memories are long. China lost to Russia a good chunk of their sphere of influence as well as outright territory lost from about 1859 to WWII. And China hasn't regained it.

24champ
03-30-2013, 02:09 PM
If they do attack, does Obama drop the hammer?

Make no mistake, Obama will swiftly respond.

NK has to know they will commit suicide if they do decide to attack and I don't know if China would come to the rescue again as they did in the Korean war. Such events could cripple the Chinese military and economy.

Some interesting dynamics here, lots of bitter history between countries in that region and economic interests at play here.

Mediator12
03-30-2013, 02:17 PM
Well that's very interesting maybe you could enlighten me as to when Iraq attacked the United States?

Did you forget Kuwait and the first Iraqi war. Did you forget the whole middle eastern connection to Oil and Insanity. Sheesh, read and think people.

Rohirrim
03-30-2013, 02:24 PM
Dude, pick up a ****ing book, or go visit China, you're wayyyyyy off.

I don't believe the bull****. China has a long history of bull****ting. With China, I know one thing: What the man on the street wants doesn't mean ****.

Cito Pelon
03-30-2013, 02:29 PM
I don't know that scared ****less is the right terminology as Chinese military spending per year is roughly equivalent to Japan, the UK, France, and Russia combined. If they keep spending at such a high rate, only the U.S. will really be able to push them around out there. Example of what that military spending is leading to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

I think China welcomes Japan getting aggressive, because then Japan can't play the victim card, and the U.S. can't as easily get involved.

I just don't see NK as a player in this area, they are the little kid no one pays attention to.

Yeah, China is certainly trying to regain their sphere of influence and expand it in East Asia, South Asia, and the Western Pacific. NK is a pawn as Roh said above.

IMO, NK is kind of a dangerous pawn for them to play. China supported the UN resolutions for sanctions after NK went nuclear, but they continue to support NK economically. They're playing a dangerous game because Beijing is within range of nuclear missiles from NK. China is playing a dangerous game with NK.

Rohirrim
03-30-2013, 02:37 PM
It's naive to look on this move of NKs as totally separate from the campaign of aggression the Chinese have been pushing the last few years:

China's creeping assertiveness towards its neighbours, evident since 2008-09, has become even bolder. Within weeks of his (Xi's) ascendancy, for the first time, four Chinese warships entered waters near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands that China calls Diaoyu. This was followed by a Chinese maritime surveillance aircraft flying over the contested islands, prompting Japan to scramble its own fighter jets. A confrontation was avoided as the Chinese plane had left the area before Japanese interceptors arrived. But the message was clear: China was ready to use force to change the status quo. Although the island has been under Japanese control for five decades, China's attempt to change the reality on the ground is perhaps based on calculation that a weakened and dispirited Japan would seek to avoid direct confrontation. China's aggressive moves also coincided with its submission of documents to the UN, detailing its claims to the continental shelf in the East China Sea.

This escalation comes in the wake of other incidents in the South China Sea, in which Chinese patrol boats had repeatedly intercepted Vietnamese and Malaysian survey vessels and cut seismic cables used for exploration. China's Hainan province has passed a law allowing its officials to search and repel foreign ships believed to be engaged in "illegal activities" in the territorial waters surrounding islands that China claims. Like the surveillance flight over Senkakus, this operation too, is designed to make good China's claim to the islets, rocks and surrounding waters claimed by Beijing.

By launching its first aircraft carrier and expanding its maritime patrol Beijing has put some teeth behind its territorial claims. These military moves have also been accompanied by stepped up economic pressure on the neighbours. After banning exports of rare earth minerals (on which China holds a monopoly) to Japan, China has sharply cut back imports from Japan and scaled down Chinese tourist visits to the country, causing Japan to run a trade deficit for the fifth month in a row. Earlier, China cancelled banana imports from the Philippines in retaliation for its challenge to China's territorial claims. Alarmed Vietnamese officials have called on China to desist from using trade tools in settling a territorial dispute. As Vietnam's largest trade partner, China holds considerable sway.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-22/edit-page/35953913_1_senkaku-islands-chinese-plane-xi

Willynowei
03-30-2013, 02:44 PM
I don't believe the bull****. China has a long history of bull****ting. With China, I know one thing: What the man on the street wants doesn't mean ****.

Lmao, do you know what its like to live one day in the shoes of a Chinese government official? You go to the fanciest restaurants, nicest bars, you have some hot european model wife and your kids go to Harvard. Do you know where all this money comes from? International private interests, from U.S. companies, European companies, Japanese companies.

Sounds terrible doesn't it? Really makes you want to build a big military and push others around. :rofl:

Do you know who actually wants Chinese hegemony and military development? Chinese citizens! That's right.

You're talking about a people who have constantly experienced invasions for thousands of years from "babarians" (including mongols, manchurians, the united western forces in the opium wars and Japan).

This group of impoverished people used to starve under a corrupt ruling class that eventually got kicked off the mainland onto a little island called Taiwan, along with the ruling elite that they consider greedy and corrupt.

This group is particularly pissed off at the fact that their own navy can't keep America's 7th fleet outside of their own backyard, as pissed as you or I would be if we lived on the coasts in the early 1800's and saw the British Royal Navy parading around American docks for "peace keeping" missions.

The Chinese people, the poor, are the ones that care about pride and nationalism, their government officials, are concerned about only 1 thing - money, because they are hard core capitalists.

Ask any expert on the area and they'll tell you that growing nationalism among the "common people" that you say are not heard over there is the primary pressure internally for central government to build up their military.

Go to China, watch how the common people make fun of their own government as incapable of being strong and projecting Chinese influence the way that America does.

Willynowei
03-30-2013, 02:46 PM
It's naive to look on this move of NKs as totally separate from the campaign of aggression the Chinese have been pushing the last few years:

China's creeping assertiveness towards its neighbours, evident since 2008-09, has become even bolder. Within weeks of his (Xi's) ascendancy, for the first time, four Chinese warships entered waters near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands that China calls Diaoyu. This was followed by a Chinese maritime surveillance aircraft flying over the contested islands, prompting Japan to scramble its own fighter jets. A confrontation was avoided as the Chinese plane had left the area before Japanese interceptors arrived. But the message was clear: China was ready to use force to change the status quo. Although the island has been under Japanese control for five decades, China's attempt to change the reality on the ground is perhaps based on calculation that a weakened and dispirited Japan would seek to avoid direct confrontation. China's aggressive moves also coincided with its submission of documents to the UN, detailing its claims to the continental shelf in the East China Sea.

This escalation comes in the wake of other incidents in the South China Sea, in which Chinese patrol boats had repeatedly intercepted Vietnamese and Malaysian survey vessels and cut seismic cables used for exploration. China's Hainan province has passed a law allowing its officials to search and repel foreign ships believed to be engaged in "illegal activities" in the territorial waters surrounding islands that China claims. Like the surveillance flight over Senkakus, this operation too, is designed to make good China's claim to the islets, rocks and surrounding waters claimed by Beijing.

By launching its first aircraft carrier and expanding its maritime patrol Beijing has put some teeth behind its territorial claims. These military moves have also been accompanied by stepped up economic pressure on the neighbours. After banning exports of rare earth minerals (on which China holds a monopoly) to Japan, China has sharply cut back imports from Japan and scaled down Chinese tourist visits to the country, causing Japan to run a trade deficit for the fifth month in a row. Earlier, China cancelled banana imports from the Philippines in retaliation for its challenge to China's territorial claims. Alarmed Vietnamese officials have called on China to desist from using trade tools in settling a territorial dispute. As Vietnam's largest trade partner, China holds considerable sway.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-22/edit-page/35953913_1_senkaku-islands-chinese-plane-xi

excellent sources you educate yourself with there. LOL!

Its funny because your article mentions the senkaku islands which i already referred to earlier in the thread, except the difference is, i actually said why they want Senkaku where as ur article brilliantly skips over it.

Chinese disputes over islands mainly focus on economic trade routes and oil, they don't give a **** about North Korea, and neither does the U.S.

baja
03-30-2013, 02:49 PM
That is why North Korea is so pissed off... They thought Rodman was Obama.


LOL LOL Now that's damn funny....

baja
03-30-2013, 02:54 PM
Did you forget Kuwait and the first Iraqi war. Did you forget the whole middle eastern connection to Oil and Insanity. Sheesh, read and think people.

So Kuwait is the 51st state than. Geez nobody tells me anything.

nyuk nyuk
03-30-2013, 03:14 PM
This is worth posting again

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S7Kq78G2nxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You'd think these radicals would put 1 and 1 together in their mind and conclude that if their cause is so great, they wouldn't have to cover up facts and lie like that, yet they never seem to get it. And they never question what they're doing, either.

Rohirrim
03-30-2013, 04:19 PM
excellent sources you educate yourself with there. LOL!

Its funny because your article mentions the senkaku islands which i already referred to earlier in the thread, except the difference is, i actually said why they want Senkaku where as ur article brilliantly skips over it.

Chinese disputes over islands mainly focus on economic trade routes and oil, they don't give a **** about North Korea, and neither does the U.S.

The Times of India? They have the largest circulation in the world. ???

baja
03-30-2013, 04:27 PM
This is worth posting again

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S7Kq78G2nxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dang their news is more accurate than our own main stream media.

cutthemdown
03-30-2013, 04:34 PM
Don't worry Obama will handle it.......Oh wait no he won't.

W*GS
03-30-2013, 04:53 PM
Dang their news is more accurate than our own main stream media.

I didn't realize Kim Jong-un posted on the OM. Who knew?

Broncojef
03-30-2013, 05:02 PM
Dang their news is more accurate than our own main stream media.

Not clearing a huge hurdle there are they.

W*GS
03-30-2013, 05:03 PM
Don't worry Obama will handle it.......Oh wait no he won't.

Bush didn't "handle it".

baja
03-30-2013, 05:12 PM
I didn't realize Kim Jong-un posted on the OM. Who knew?

Got kinche?

baja
03-30-2013, 05:20 PM
Not clearing a huge hurdle there are they.



Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Time have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Broncojef
03-30-2013, 05:56 PM
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Time have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

He was the last guy I remember my family tuning in to hear every night. I was a child when we landed on the moon and remember hanging on his every word and looking up at night to see if I could see the guys up there.

Fedaykin
03-30-2013, 06:31 PM
NK rattling the sabres to get some more food to feed their starving people and boost moral.

Chickenhawks simultaneously spluging and peeing themselves.

Kaylore
03-30-2013, 11:04 PM
I had snow and robin for lunch today.

baja
03-30-2013, 11:16 PM
I had snow and robin for lunch today.

Did you eat the last one?

cutthemdown
03-31-2013, 03:56 AM
Bush didn't "handle it".

Either did Clinton or Bush SR. No President has the balls to deal with it. That is the smart move also. We deal with it by having a scorched earth counter strike policy. They step too far out of line by launching or using a nuclear device we scorch the whole country.

I don't know who is too blame for them getting a nuke and testing it but the chance to stop them sort of passed. What can we do no air strike would stop their program and would only lead to them shelling S Korea and a huge war. If that war goes nuclear we have to nuke them back. Its just crazy.

god forbid we make some mistake with Iran. I do believe Obama is last in like to stop them. Much like Clinton was the last who had a chance to stop n korea. But that could be bush sr i don't know. I do know by bush jr they had already tested a nuke so can't be his fault.

cutthemdown
03-31-2013, 03:57 AM
Damn no snow in CA and I am dying for some coffee. The good news is i called the N Korean humanitarian relief agency and they brought me some snow to make coffee. I was so grateful to them for the help.

baja
03-31-2013, 07:36 AM
Either did Clinton or Bush SR. No President has the balls to deal with it. That is the smart move also. We deal with it by having a scorched earth counter strike policy. They step too far out of line by launching or using a nuclear device we scorch the whole country.

I don't know who is too blame for them getting a nuke and testing it but the chance to stop them sort of passed. What can we do no air strike would stop their program and would only lead to them shelling S Korea and a huge war. If that war goes nuclear we have to nuke them back. Its just crazy.

god forbid we make some mistake with Iran. I do believe Obama is last in like to stop them. Much like Clinton was the last who had a chance to stop n korea. But that could be bush sr i don't know. I do know by bush jr they had already tested a nuke so can't be his fault.

Oh but what about the poor oppressed N. Korean people don't we have a moral responsibility to to rescue them, after all moral obligation was the reason given to attack Iraq after "Saddam is al Qaeda" and Saddam has WMD and we will see a mushroom cloud in NYC any day now " didn't fly.

DenverBrit
03-31-2013, 08:01 AM
Oh but what about the poor oppressed N. Korean people don't we have a moral responsibility to to rescue them, after all moral obligation was the reason given to attack Iraq after "Saddam is al Qaeda" and Saddam has WMD and we will see a mushroom cloud in NYC any day now " didn't fly.

Pakistan represents the bigger threat and we won't be ****ing with them any time soon either. Not even sanctions.

Despite the attempts at justification, Iraq was never about WMDs or Al Qaeda. We will probably never know for certain what motivated that dumbassery, but the almighty $ would be a good place to start.

baja
03-31-2013, 08:28 AM
Pakistan represents the bigger threat and we won't be ****ing with them any time soon either. Not even sanctions.

Despite the attempts at justification, Iraq was never about WMDs or Al Qaeda. We will probably never know for certain what motivated that dumbassery, but the almighty $ would be a good place to start.

This guy comes close but he fails to understand whats behind curtain ;


There have been many 'official' justifications for why the US attacked Iraq . Some of these include: Saddam had WMDs and was a direct threat to the US and the world, Saddam was involved with 9/11 and needed to be brought to justice, Saddam supported and funded worldwide terrorism in the form of Al-Qaeda and OBL, and Saddam was a brutal dictator whose regime condoned torture and rape. While all these have been shown to be false justifications, in one way or another, the latest US government ploy is to claim that Iraqis were killed and their property destroyed to bring them democracy and freedom, and that this somehow justifies a brutal war of aggression. My personal feeling is, if given a choice between brutal dictatorship and keeping life and property, or having democracy and freedom, but losing life and property, most people would choose the brutal dictatorship.

All the official justifications have been shown to be false. Here is a brief recap of the lies and deceptions. Saddam had WMDs ' had is the operative word. Before the invasion, Saddam had dismantled all WMDs that the US and others had given him. Saddam was telling the truth about WMDs, the US lied about WMDs. Saddam was involved with 9/11 - while Saddam thought 9/11 was justified and a result of US foreign policy, there is no evidence linking Saddam to 9/11, as admitted by the Bush administration itself. Saddam supported terrorism ' Saddam and OBL were ideological enemies, and there is no evidence that they ever formed any type of alliance. Saddam was a brutal dictator ' yes he was, just like all the other brutal dictators the US has and continues to support when they fully support US goals. Saddam's worst atrocities came when he was considered a valuable US asset, and done with the full knowledge and support of the US government. Also, with the US government and military involvement with rape and torture, the only change seems to be who is doing the brutality, not the elimination of brutality. The Bush administration's latest justification for their outright lying and deception is that everyone in the Bush administration, and everyone in the multibillion dollar security agencies, was completely fooled by a known crazy drunk and pathological liar code named Curveball, who wasn't even in Iraq at the time. So the current wisdom seems to be that, even though the Bush administration and its lackeys were completely incompetent, and couldn't distinguish between a real threat and an imaginary, non-existent threat, it is still a magnanimous act of compassion that the US attacked Iraq, killing and maiming at least hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, destroying billions of dollars of personal property, and torturing and raping thousand of Iraqis, because the US brought democracy and freedom. Instead of being an endorsement for democracy and freedom, as Fox News and the other bobble heads of the media proclaim, it appears to be a scathing indictment of the incompetence of the state.

So if one looks beyond the official lies and deceptions, what were the real reasons for invading Iraq ? There are many reasons that have been given that seem very plausible. Most of them have to do with US hegemony, with the US trying to assert control and dominion as the lone superpower. If given as a multiple choice question, the possible answers would resemble: a) US dollar hegemony, b) US oil hegemony, c) US military hegemony, d) US client state Israel hegemony, e) all of the above, f) none of the above. Let's look at each possible answer a little more closely.

US dollar hegemony is a nice choice. There are scholars who believe that is the prime reason the US attacked Iraq . Before the invasion, during the time of the crippling US-approved UN sanctions against Iraq that led to million of deaths of Iraqis, at least half of them children, Saddam had switched from pricing oil from dollars to euros. As the article The War To Save The U.S. Dollar explains: 'The Americans could live with Saddam until he started selling oil for euros instead of U.S. dollars. Then the Europeans could live with him.' As the article The Iranian Threat: The Bomb or the Euro? points out, this is the real reason the US is upset with Iran . The author, Dr. Elias Akleh, states 'Iran does not pose a threat to the United State because of its nuclear projects, its WMD, or its support to 'terrorists organizations' as the American administration is claiming, but in its attempt to re-shape the global economical system by converting it from a petrodollar to a petroeuro system. Such conversion is looked upon as a flagrant declaration of economical war against the US that would flatten the revenues of the American corporations and eventually might cause an economic collapse.' Like any government program, this one is having the exact opposite effect. Because of the war in Iraq , the national debt has spiraled more out of control, causing the Fed to print more money, making each dollar worth less, causing more countries to seek alternatives to the once mighty US dollar.

The second choice of US oil hegemony is also a good one. This article Why Bush Jr. Wants War on Iraq - A Crisis Really About Saudi Arabia, and many others like it, make the case that it is all about oil. And oil is vitally important to the US and all modern industrial civilization. It is much more than just about gas and fuel for vehicles. Oil is critical for lubricating machinery, modern synthetic materials, agriculture, pesticides, and fertilizers. Without oil, and oil-based products, modern industrial civilization cannot exist. So instead of encouraging development of alternatives to oil, which it seems we will have to do at some point, or paying free market prices to gain access to the oil legally, the criminals in DC came up with the idea of stealing the second largest known oil reserves in the world. They even howled how the theft of Iraqi oil would pay for the war and be a great benefit to US corporations and the average American. Like all their other madcap assertions, this one has backfired too. It seems the Iraqis would rather blow up their oil pipelines than just let the US steal their oil, and that has caused Iraq oil to disappear on the world market.

Option three is US military hegemony. Again we find this is a very credible product of US policy. With reports of building 14 enduring bases in Iraq, it only confirms that this is true. It seems the Saudis were anxious to get rid of us, where we were unwelcome guests, so the brains of the neo-CONs decided to invade Iraq , where we would be hated occupiers. Unlike how the neo-crazies said the US troops would be greeted with flowers and candy and welcomed as liberators, US troops have been greeted with RPGs and IEDs and treated as hated enemies. Instead of projecting US military strength, the Iraq quagmire has exposed the US military's weakness, where a ragtag band of freedom fighters equipped with low tech weapons have effectively stalemated the high tech, multibillion dollar US military. Add in the effect of war crimes committed by the US military, with the slaughter, torture, and rape of innocent civilians, allowing for the increased recruitment in terrorists and hatred of America , and one sees that this is just another massive government boondoggle of disastrous proportions.

The fourth option is US client state Israel hegemony. Probably the only point of contention with this choice is whether Zionist Israel is the client state of the US or the US is the client state of Zionist Israel. It is probably one of the worst kept secrets that the Iraq war was fought to protect Israel's interests. And what are the benefits to Americans? This article entitled This War Is Being Fought For Israel! makes this interesting observation: 'Further aid [to Israel] will only lead to yet even more taxation of the American people, and an attack on Iraq will incite intense hatred throughout the Middle East against Americans and U.S. interests, and likely to an even more massive retaliation than September 11th. With friends like this, who needs enemies?' The problem with Zionist Israel is their inhumane, racist treatment of the Palestinians, which is exacerbated by the illegal US funding and backing of the Zionists' cruel treatment of the Palestinians. Until the Zionists find an equitable settlement to this self-inflicted problem, they are always going to be abhorrent and scorned by the majority of humanity, not just by Arabs. The result of the Iraq war for Israel 's interests seems to be another massive blunder by the Zionists and their neo-CON buddies, as Iran seems to have been strengthened by the war, while Israel and the US were both weakened.

So this brings us to the all the above option. While it is a good one, and it is true that all the preceding were reasons for the US invasion of Iraq , I'm going to skip it, and choose the last option, none of the above. So what was the real reason the US attacked Iraq ? The real reason the US invaded Iraq was because the US leaders knew they could get away with it. They knew they could lie and deceive, and have their lies regurgitated by compliant media whores, and that most Americans would unquestioningly believe them. They knew that Americans would rather have their sons and daughters die, than to see their patriotism questioned. The leaders knew that even if their lies and deceptions were exposed, most Americans would still believe the lies and deceptions, and look to them to lead them. They knew they would never be held accountable by citizens who lacked the willpower to think for themselves and take individual responsibility for their lives. Just as the 'good Germans' blindly followed the Nazis to their own destruction, so today the 'good Americans' are racing along the highway to Hell, led by their leaders they so mechanically respond to and adore.

Just as America 's leaders claimed they believed the drunken, crazy ranting of a pathological liar, so too Americans claim they believe the fanatical ravings of the congenital liars of the state. Americans need to wake up, realize that the state is just the biggest criminal Ponzi scheme in history, and that you cannot continue to live a lie indefinitely. For most Americans, this day appears to be fast approaching.

The real lesson of why the US attacked Iraq is massive government incompetence and criminal malfeasance allowed by a people who were totally gullible and ignorant to stop it. Americans should realize that the US government is their own worst enemy, and their political leaders are incompetent at best and wholly criminal at worst. It is not just a case of Republicans versus Democrats, liberals versus conservatives, as all have contributed to the downfall of America . There is no simple solution of just getting the right people elected, as the whole system is rotten at its core. The only way to avoid the catastrophe of war is if each person accepts that no person, or group of persons, even if they call themselves politicians and leaders, may use their freedom to violate the freedom of another person. People must accept that it is wrong to kill innocent foreigners, to destroy their property, and that killing and stealing for the state is just as wrong as an individual killing and stealing. It is not patriotic to follow the criminal dictates of parasitic leaders who use blind obedience to violate the rights of others. The only hope for America is that her people will lose their collectivist herd mentality inculcated by the state and its indoctrination centers, reject the state and its minions as the slavers of humanity they are, and accept individualism and the responsibility to direct their own life in voluntary cooperation, association, and trade.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/weebies/weebies11.html

baja
03-31-2013, 08:33 AM
Here is a simple message as to what to do about the real problem;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f0sBA61L0Y

baja
03-31-2013, 08:34 AM
This vid makes a good point why this corruption did not begin or end with GWB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSkQgnEV-Q

DenverBrit
03-31-2013, 09:17 AM
This guy comes close but he fails to understand whats behind curtain ;



while Saddam thought 9/11 was justified and a result of US foreign policy, there is no evidence linking Saddam to 9/11, as admitted by the Bush administration itself. Saddam supported terrorism ' Saddam and OBL were ideological enemies, and there is no evidence that they ever formed any type of alliance. Saddam was a brutal dictator ' yes he was, just like all the other brutal dictators the US has and continues to support when they fully support US goals. Saddam's worst atrocities came when he was considered a valuable US asset, and done with the full knowledge and support of the US government.

The highlighted comment was well known by anyone following Iraq and terrorism. Bin Laden hated Saddam as much as he hated the west....if not more. Neglecting the unfinished business in Afghanistan to invade Iraq was an unbelievably stupid move, but the pussies on both sides of the aisle went along rather than be accused of being unpatriotic.

It's amazing how much was lost and damage done, yet no vigorous inquiry or investigation into the invasion and motivation for the attack. Where were the 'special prosecutors' and call for impeachment?

No 'morale' outrage by the hypocrites of the far right this time.

baja
03-31-2013, 09:51 AM
The highlighted comment was well known by anyone following Iraq and terrorism. Bin Laden hated Saddam as much as he hated the west....if not more. Neglecting the unfinished business in Afghanistan to invade Iraq was an unbelievably stupid move, but the pussies on both sides of the aisle went along rather than be accused of being unpatriotic.

It's amazing how much was lost and damage done, yet no vigorous inquiry or investigation into the invasion and motivation for the attack. Where were the 'special prosecutors' and call for impeachment?

No 'morale' outrage by the hypocrites of the far right this time.

This is the sole responsibility of the American people, if they did not tolerate these tyrannical deeds they would not be able to exist.

The good news is there are more and more people awakening from there nap of denial. At some point this awakening will become exponential and the collective we will reclaim our power . Hopefully before the ever nearing point when to do so will have horrific personal costs for each and everyone of us on the planet.

baja
03-31-2013, 10:02 AM
Here is a retired major general that explains how we citizens were set up to accept and justify the second attack on Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc1ql4TfCZw

cutthemdown
03-31-2013, 12:54 PM
Oh but what about the poor oppressed N. Korean people don't we have a moral responsibility to to rescue them, after all moral obligation was the reason given to attack Iraq after "Saddam is al Qaeda" and Saddam has WMD and we will see a mushroom cloud in NYC any day now " didn't fly.


Just no way to help them at this point. You can't help people whose own govt would kill them rather then let us liberate them. They would have some way of setting off a nuke you can bet that. Even if its in some building just ready to go etc etc. Good job though bringing in Iraq you are a smooth operator Baal.

cutthemdown
03-31-2013, 12:55 PM
So you guys can't even discuss any other region ever again without talking about Iraq. Holy cow let it go it's over with. It's too late to arrest Bush and Cheney. Don't worry Cheney will die soon and you can make it a new holiday.

baja
03-31-2013, 12:58 PM
Just no way to help them at this point. You can't help people whose own govt would kill them rather then let us liberate them. They would have some way of setting off a nuke you can bet that. Even if its in some building just ready to go etc etc. Good job though bringing in Iraq you are a smooth operator Baal.

Guess we need a sarcastic smily

baja
03-31-2013, 01:01 PM
So you guys can't even discuss any other region ever again without talking about Iraq. Holy cow let it go it's over with. It's too late to arrest Bush and Cheney. Don't worry Cheney will die soon and you can make it a new holiday.

"getting over it " guarantees it will happen again and is right now with Afghanistan (why are we there again?) and Syria in the pipeline.