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spdirty
03-28-2013, 08:06 AM
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10200278536319636" width="1280" height="720" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Anyone care to explain this to me? A couple took this video. This is a train headed west in the middle of the desert between Hackberry and Peach Springs Arizona. Just a logical explanation would be appreciated.

Rohirrim
03-28-2013, 08:34 AM
Probably equipment returning from Iraq and headed toward mothballing in the desert somewhere.

spdirty
03-28-2013, 09:35 AM
Probably equipment returning from Iraq and headed toward mothballing in the desert somewhere.

Hope so.

W*GS
03-28-2013, 09:45 AM
Probably equipment returning from Iraq and headed toward mothballing in the desert somewhere.

You've disappointed. Didn't you know it's a secret DHS transport of military materiel for the coming totalitarian regime change?

nyuk nyuk
03-28-2013, 10:11 AM
They aren't tanks, who knows where they've come from or are headed to.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 11:21 AM
It's a super secret equipment shipment to be used for [insert you favorite conspiracy nutter fantasy here]

Shipped at daytime, in plain view of the public.

Brilliant!

Requiem
03-28-2013, 11:26 AM
I wondered the same thing when I saw them roll through my town. Suspicious trains!

houghtam
03-28-2013, 11:37 AM
They aren't tanks.

Brilliant analysis.

They also aren't hot air balloons.

DenverBrit
03-28-2013, 11:39 AM
Someone suggested closing gunshow loopholes, so the Redcoats are coming to take our guns. :rofl:

baja
03-28-2013, 12:04 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?218994-Dept-Of-Homeland-Security-Buys-2500-GLS-armored-fighting-vehicles

houghtam
03-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Didn't you know, guys? All military vehicles are manufactured on US military bases and flown directly to the battlefield, and then they stay there forever. The public can never see them.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 12:22 PM
Didn't you know, guys? All military vehicles are manufactured on US military bases and flown directly to the battlefield, and then they stay there forever. The public can never see them.

Don't forget the mind control rays used to make sure people don't even see the air transports.

baja
03-28-2013, 12:23 PM
Didn't you know, guys? All military vehicles are manufactured on US military bases and flown directly to the battlefield, and then they stay there forever. The public can never see them.

Cute,

Why did the Department of Homeland Security buy them pray tell?

baja
03-28-2013, 12:27 PM
Check it out;


Homeland Security graduates first Corps of Homeland Youth
October 7, 2012. Vicksburg. The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.


On September 13, 2012, the Dept of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps youth, aka the Homeland Youth. Image courtesy of DHS.gov.

On September 13, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps first-responders. While the idea of having a volunteer force of tens of thousands of volunteers scattered across the country to aid in times of natural disasters sounds great, the details and timing of this new government army is somewhat curious, if not disturbing.

DHS raising an armed army

The first problem one finds with this ‘new army’ is the fact that they are mere children. Yes, 18 is generally the legal age a person can sign a contract, join the military or be tried as an adult. But ask any parent - an 18, 20 or even a 24 year-old is still a naïve, readily-influenced kid.

The second problem with this announcement and program is its timing. Over the past two years, President Obama has signed a number of Executive Orders suspending all civil and Constitutional rights and turning over management of an America under Martial Law to FEMA. Also in that time, domestic federal agencies under DHS, including FEMA, have ordered billions of rounds of ammunition as well as the corresponding firearms. Admittedly, these new weapons and ammunition aren’t to be used in some far-off war or to fight forest fires in California, but right here on the streets of America.

Strange Armored Fighting Vehicles

Individuals around the US have begun reporting the site of strange, new, heavily-armed FEMA fighting vehicles. What would a disaster relief agency like FEMA need with 2,500 brand new GLS armored fighting vehicles? According to the agency’s own mandate, as well as President Obama’s recent Executive Order, the answer is ‘population control’ during a time of Martial Law.

One set of images made available by Rense.com shows trailer after trailer carrying these new DHS and FEMA armored fighting vehicles, complete with machine gun slots. They’re labeled with the usual backward American flag and the title, ‘Homeland Security’. Below that and the DHS logo, it also reads, ‘Immigration & Customs Enforcement’. Joining those markings, the black vehicles with white lettering also display ‘POLICE/RESCUE’ on one side and ‘Special Response Team’ on the other.



DHS & FEMA armed fighting vehicles. Images courtesy of Rense.com.



FEMA Corps

FEMA Deputy Administrator Rich Serino gave the keynote address at the ‘Induction Ceremony’ for the inaugural class of FEMA Corps members. According to the DHS website, ‘Corps members assist with disaster preparedness, response, and recovery activities, providing support in areas ranging from working directly with disaster survivors to supporting disaster recovering centers to sharing valuable disaster preparedness and mitigation information with the public.’

Serino describes what the first FEMA Corps class has accomplished so far, as well as where they’ll be going next:

‘Yesterday, we welcomed 231 energetic members into the first ever FEMA Corps class. The members just finished off their first month of training with our partners at the Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS) and are one step closer to working in the field on disaster response and recovery. They will now head to FEMA’s Center for Domestic Preparedness to spend the next two weeks training in their FEMA position-specific roles. Once they complete both the CNCS and FEMA training, these 231 dedicated FEMA Corps members will be qualified to work in one of a variety of disaster related roles, ranging from Community Relations to Disaster Recovery Center support.’

A standing army

Unlike most local disaster response teams who are volunteers, training periodically and only showing up when there’s a disaster, the FEMA Corps will be a paid, full time, standing army of government youth. FEMA Deputy Administrator Sarino goes on to explain, ‘The new members, who range in age from 18-24 years old, will contribute to a dedicated, trained, and reliable disaster workforce by working full-time for ten months on federal disaster response and recovery efforts.’

In closing his announcement of the first graduating class of FEMA Corps Youth, Sarino describes his and the agency’s vision of the future, one where ‘FEMA Corps sets the foundation for a new generation of emergency managers’.

DHS arms itself

As we detailed in the August 28 Whiteout Press article ‘History of DHS Ammunition Purchases’, federal emergency management agencies are looking more and more like a military army every day.

The federal government’s procurement website actually lists DHS’ requests for bids to supply it with ammunition and military weaponry. All of the orders listed in the above article, including the orders for hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition, are publicly available at http://www.fbo.gov.

One look at a chart of DHS ammunition purchases over the past decade reveals a drastic spike in orders of bullets recently, totaling in the billions of rounds. Other charts available online show a similar drastic spike in the purchases of accompanying weaponry by the Department of Homeland Security.

What is the US federal government preparing for? And why does it feel it needs an army of brainwashed youth, millions of guns, thousands of armored fighting vehicles and literally billions of rounds of ammunition, just to provide relief to the American people during a natural disaster? Any historian will tell you it sounds more like the arming of the Hitler Youth than an army of first responders fighting forest fires and hurricanes.

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Related articles:

Obama Martial Law EO moves power from FEMA to President

History of DHS Ammunition Purchases

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SC Citizens rush to defend Posse Comitatus

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DenverBrit
03-28-2013, 12:34 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?218994-Dept-Of-Homeland-Security-Buys-2500-GLS-armored-fighting-vehicles

Plenty of rational responses, I liked this one.

Seriously? Strap that tinfoil hat on a little tighter chief.

Those vehicles will be assigned to particular units, primarily HSI SRT teams for high-risk warrants (much-needed considering three of our SRT agents were recently shot up while making an approach on a location), HSI Rapid Response Teams mobilized during natural disasters (ie, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.) like Katrina and Haiti to support recovery operations and local law enforcement, FEMA response teams to provide aid, Coast Guard natural disaster response, etc.

Your links detail the ammo purchases by DHS. When you actually apply logic to the amounts purchased, instead of retard-level conclusions, you will see why it was purchased. Training, qualifications, field issue, etc., for members of ICE (HSI/ERO/OIA/OPR), US Secret Service, FEMA, US Coast Guard, US Customs and Border Protection (OFO and Border Patrol), FLETC students, and whole host of others.

Christ, people are f***ing stupid these days.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 12:42 PM
More of the same b.s. like scaremongering over the DHS contracting to buy 1.6bn small arms ammo over 5 years -- which isn't even remotely out of line with the number of active, armed personnel they have.

DenverBrit
03-28-2013, 12:44 PM
Check it out;


Homeland Security graduates first Corps of Homeland Youth
October 7, 2012. Vicksburg. The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.


LOL

At that rate, the planet will have died of natural causes. Baja, the powers given under the Patriot act, Homeland security and other post 911 depts are plenty to be concerned about.

If 231 kids trained for FEMA scare you, better head to the bunker now, there's another 231 kids graduating next year too. So in a couple of thousand years, they'll be.....allowing for deaths from old age......hundreds and hundreds more.

Anyway, the 2nd amendment protects us from kids well trained in the dark arts of hurricane clean up.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 12:47 PM
The only real conspiracy is that someone is pouring stupid juice into the water supply, apparently.

baja
03-28-2013, 12:49 PM
Plenty of rational responses, I liked this one.

Yes never mind the news about DHS buying 2 billion rounds of ammunition ( many hollow point ) as well as over 2,000 iraqi war vehicles.

Did I mention this was The Department of Homeland Security that make this purchase?

houghtam
03-28-2013, 12:50 PM
Check it out;


Homeland Security graduates first Corps of Homeland Youth
October 7, 2012. Vicksburg. The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.


On September 13, 2012, the Dept of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps youth, aka the Homeland Youth. Image courtesy of DHS.gov.

On September 13, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps first-responders. While the idea of having a volunteer force of tens of thousands of volunteers scattered across the country to aid in times of natural disasters sounds great, the details and timing of this new government army is somewhat curious, if not disturbing.

DHS raising an armed army

The first problem one finds with this ‘new army’ is the fact that they are mere children. Yes, 18 is generally the legal age a person can sign a contract, join the military or be tried as an adult. But ask any parent - an 18, 20 or even a 24 year-old is still a naïve, readily-influenced kid.

The second problem with this announcement and program is its timing. Over the past two years, President Obama has signed a number of Executive Orders suspending all civil and Constitutional rights and turning over management of an America under Martial Law to FEMA. Also in that time, domestic federal agencies under DHS, including FEMA, have ordered billions of rounds of ammunition as well as the corresponding firearms. Admittedly, these new weapons and ammunition aren’t to be used in some far-off war or to fight forest fires in California, but right here on the streets of America.

Strange Armored Fighting Vehicles

Individuals around the US have begun reporting the site of strange, new, heavily-armed FEMA fighting vehicles. What would a disaster relief agency like FEMA need with 2,500 brand new GLS armored fighting vehicles? According to the agency’s own mandate, as well as President Obama’s recent Executive Order, the answer is ‘population control’ during a time of Martial Law.

One set of images made available by Rense.com shows trailer after trailer carrying these new DHS and FEMA armored fighting vehicles, complete with machine gun slots. They’re labeled with the usual backward American flag and the title, ‘Homeland Security’. Below that and the DHS logo, it also reads, ‘Immigration & Customs Enforcement’. Joining those markings, the black vehicles with white lettering also display ‘POLICE/RESCUE’ on one side and ‘Special Response Team’ on the other.



DHS & FEMA armed fighting vehicles. Images courtesy of Rense.com.



FEMA Corps

FEMA Deputy Administrator Rich Serino gave the keynote address at the ‘Induction Ceremony’ for the inaugural class of FEMA Corps members. According to the DHS website, ‘Corps members assist with disaster preparedness, response, and recovery activities, providing support in areas ranging from working directly with disaster survivors to supporting disaster recovering centers to sharing valuable disaster preparedness and mitigation information with the public.’

Serino describes what the first FEMA Corps class has accomplished so far, as well as where they’ll be going next:

‘Yesterday, we welcomed 231 energetic members into the first ever FEMA Corps class. The members just finished off their first month of training with our partners at the Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS) and are one step closer to working in the field on disaster response and recovery. They will now head to FEMA’s Center for Domestic Preparedness to spend the next two weeks training in their FEMA position-specific roles. Once they complete both the CNCS and FEMA training, these 231 dedicated FEMA Corps members will be qualified to work in one of a variety of disaster related roles, ranging from Community Relations to Disaster Recovery Center support.’

A standing army

Unlike most local disaster response teams who are volunteers, training periodically and only showing up when there’s a disaster, the FEMA Corps will be a paid, full time, standing army of government youth. FEMA Deputy Administrator Sarino goes on to explain, ‘The new members, who range in age from 18-24 years old, will contribute to a dedicated, trained, and reliable disaster workforce by working full-time for ten months on federal disaster response and recovery efforts.’

Do better research. FEMA Corps was created as a partnership between FEMA and Americorps. You and the author of this article need to do some serious research if you think there isn't a need for full time disaster relief workers.

W*GS
03-28-2013, 12:53 PM
If baja can't be scared, then he has no reason to live.

baja
03-28-2013, 12:55 PM
LOL

At that rate, the planet will have died of natural causes. Baja, the powers given under the Patriot act, Homeland security and other post 911 depts are plenty to be concerned about.

If 231 kids trained for FEMA scare you, better head to the bunker now, there's another 231 kids graduating next year too. So in a couple of thousand years, they'll be.....allowing for deaths from old age......hundreds and hundreds more.

Anyway, the 2nd amendment protects us from kids well trained in the dark arts of hurricane clean up.

I suppose that is exactly the reaction of Germans when Hitler started his Youth Corps

Obama FEMA Corp recruits conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany

Fred Brownbill
saveamericafoundation.com
October 19, 2012
The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.
On September 13, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps first-responders. While the idea of having a volunteer force of tens of thousands of volunteers scattered across the country to aid in times of natural disasters sounds great, the details and timing of this new government army is somewhat curious, if not disturbing.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 12:57 PM
Yes never mind the news about DHS buying 2 billion rounds of ammunition ( many hollow point ) as well as over 2,000 iraqi war vehicles.

Did I mention this was The Department of Homeland Security that make this purchase?

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Answer these two questions:

Do armed employees of the government ever need to practice?

Can they go out and pick up the bullets afterwards and reuse them?

houghtam
03-28-2013, 01:05 PM
I suppose that is exactly the reaction of Germans when Hitler started his Youth Corps

Obama FEMA Corp recruits conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany

Fred Brownbill
saveamericafoundation.com
October 19, 2012
The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.
On September 13, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps first-responders. While the idea of having a volunteer force of tens of thousands of volunteers scattered across the country to aid in times of natural disasters sounds great, the details and timing of this new government army is somewhat curious, if not disturbing.

Your comparison to the Hitler Youth is disingenuous and ignorant of history at best, fearmongering and lunacy at worst.

I'm really getting sick of you armchair historians trying to rewrite German history. The Hitler Youth was always a paramilitary organization. There were no coverups trying to make them look like the Boy Scouts. They were indoctrinated, told they were the future of the Aryan race, and advertised as such.

The only thing that FEMA Corps has in common with Hitler Youth is that it is directed toward young people. For someone like you who complains all the time about people not caring enough about their country (even though you moved away) I would think you would be in favor of a number of kids, no matter how swimmingly insignificantly small, would be motivated to help.

DenverBrit
03-28-2013, 01:13 PM
Yes never mind the news about DHS buying 2 billion rounds of ammunition ( many hollow point ) as well as over 2,000 iraqi war vehicles.

Did I mention this was The Department of Homeland Security that make this purchase?

Got a link?

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 01:15 PM
Yes never mind the news about DHS buying 2 billion rounds of ammunition ( many hollow point ) as well as over 2,000 iraqi war vehicles.

Did I mention this was The Department of Homeland Security that make this purchase?

They didn't buy 2bn rounds of ammo. They set up a contract that allows they to buy UP TO that much. The people running around talking about 1.6bn rounds of ammo are idiots who don't understand that an RFQ (request for quote) is not a purchase agreement.

The DHS put out a several RFQ (for different purposes -- i.e. duty ammo vs. training ammo) for a purchase of UP TO 1.6bn rounds of ammo over 5 years. They did not actually buy 1.6bn rounds of ammo all at once or even 320m/year.

Why so much ammo? They contracted for up to 450m rounds over 5 years for their training center. The DHS training center does training for pretty much all federal agencies and many non-federal law enforcement agencies. Around 70,000 people use their facilities/yr, which means they are planning to be able to supply UP TO 1,300 bullets per user of their training facility over the next 5 years. Not all that much, especially when you consider that it's only UP TO that much. I personally go through more than that every year and I'm not a training law enforcement agent. In a single range visit I may go through 2-300 rounds if I'm shooting my pistols.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp

DenverBrit
03-28-2013, 01:16 PM
I suppose that is exactly the reaction of Germans when Hitler started his Youth Corps

Obama FEMA Corp recruits conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany

Fred Brownbill
saveamericafoundation.com
October 19, 2012
The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, the Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.
On September 13, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps first-responders. While the idea of having a volunteer force of tens of thousands of volunteers scattered across the country to aid in times of natural disasters sounds great, the details and timing of this new government army is somewhat curious, if not disturbing.

Obama better hurry, he'll be out of office soon. By which time, he will have nearly a thousand little Nazis goosestepping toward Congress, ready to take over.

Assuming Elmer Fudd doesn't take them all out during the march.

baja
03-28-2013, 01:22 PM
This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Answer these two questions:

Do armed employees of the government ever need to practice?

Can they go out and pick up the bullets afterwards and reuse them?

Do you have any idea how many 2 billion bullets is.

To give you an idea at the height of the Iraqi war the US troops used 6,000,000

2,000,000,000 divided by 6,000,000 = 333.333 months of target practice or 27.7 years. Not to mention a large amount of these bullets are hollow points not used for target practice, oh and illegal in war fare

baja
03-28-2013, 01:24 PM
Got a link?

Sure....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

houghtam
03-28-2013, 01:25 PM
Do you have any idea how many 2 billion bullets is.

To give you an idea at the height of the Iraqi war the US troops used 6,000,000

2,000,000,000 divided by 6,000,000 = 333.333 months of target practice or 27.7 years. Not to mention a large amount of these bullets are hollow points not used for target practice, oh and illegal in war fare

Read Fed's posts in this and the other two threads where it was brought up.

baja
03-28-2013, 01:34 PM
Obama better hurry, he'll be out of office soon. By which time, he will have nearly a thousand little Nazis goosestepping toward Congress, ready to take over.

Assuming Elmer Fudd doesn't take them all out during the march.

Yes because there will always be only 300 new trainees every year.

BTW this is not about Obama or Bush or any president since Kennedy. This is part of a long range undertaking, very long range.

Go to my Fantasy? thread and watch a few vids. I can never cover this broad centuries old plan on a message board.

Even in the face of all the evidence you will deny this reality because it's to damn scary to accept the truth of the situation. It's human nature and what they count on.

Rohirrim
03-28-2013, 01:36 PM
So, in the Hitler Youth scenario, who's playing Adolph Hitler?

baja
03-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Read Fed's posts in this and the other two threads where it was brought up.

You will awake one day of this I am sure....

houghtam
03-28-2013, 01:52 PM
You will awake one day of this I am sure....

You've been sure about a lot. Still waiting for any of it to come true.

In the meantime, take any 100-level European History 1900-present course and you'll learn how awful your Hitler Youth comparison is.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 01:53 PM
You will awake one day of this I am sure....

It's possible one day you'll actually engage your brain. Highly improbable, but it's possible.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
This bloody coup is the worst-run in history. If it were me in charge and I were trying to hide something, I would have built covers to go over all those vehicles so no one would be able to see them. I would have used all my secret funds to purchase ammunition. I would have made the FEMA Corps a SECRET organization no one knew about.

What a bunch of amateurs.

I certainly hope our lizard-people overlords are much more intelligent than these yokels.

Screw this, I want a new Beloved Leader.

baja
03-28-2013, 01:59 PM
While it's interesting to watch you shoot the messenger it will not change the truth of the message.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 02:01 PM
So Baja, what's a reasonable amount of ammo for the DHS to actually buy in a single year? Walk us through your "thought" process.

baja
03-28-2013, 02:02 PM
This bloody coup is the worst-run in history. If it were me in charge and I were trying to hide something, I would have built covers to go over all those vehicles so no one would be able to see them. I would have used all my secret funds to purchase ammunition. I would have made the FEMA Corps a SECRET organization no one knew about.

What a bunch of amateurs.

I certainly hope our lizard-people overlords are much more intelligent than these yokels.

Screw this, I want a new Beloved Leader.

It is all in plain sight that is how confident they are you will continue to deny what is before your eyes. They know you better than you know yourselves.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 02:04 PM
So Baja, what's a reasonable amount of ammo for the DHS to actually buy in a single year? Walk us through your "thought" process.

What does it matter? The Second Amendemt will save us from the big bad government!

W*GS
03-28-2013, 02:05 PM
BTW this is not about Obama or Bush or any president since Kennedy. This is part of a long range undertaking, very long range.

Was Kennedy part of it? If not, why not? What about Ike?

How long is "very long"? Like the Bene Gesserit breeding program? Millenia?

houghtam
03-28-2013, 02:05 PM
It is all in plain sight that is how confident they are you will continue to deny what is before your eyes. They know you better than you know yourselves.

Aha! The "it's just what they'd WANT you to think" argument.

I was wondering how long before you pulled that one out.

baja
03-28-2013, 02:12 PM
DO YOUR RESEARCH; START HERE;

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110548

BYE NOW ;D

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 02:13 PM
DO YOUR RESEARCH; START HERE;

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110548

BYE NOW ;D

That's what I expected: You tuck tail and run like the coward you are when asked to actually put up or shut up.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 02:16 PM
That's what I expected: You tuck tail and run like the coward you are when asked to actually put up or shut up.

"Who's a coward? I just directed you to a bunch of links I posted because you obviously are too clouded to see it my way. I'm the one with the vision here, not you guys. Even though it's obvious I am overreacting to some things I post and that there are perfectly reasonable explanations for most everything else. But you guys are the ones who are blind."

- Gaff

I mean baja.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 02:19 PM
DO YOUR RESEARCH; START HERE;

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110548

BYE NOW ;D

Speaking of research...

Tell me more about what you think the Hitler Youth was.

:yayaya:

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 02:26 PM
Was Kennedy part of it? If not, why not? What about Ike?

How long is "very long"? Like the Bene Gesserit breeding program? Millenia?

Hah, have to rep this just for the Dune ref =P

baja
03-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Big Sis Ignores Congressman’s Demand For Briefing on Bullet Buys

“Congress deserves an answer” on huge ammo purchases
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
March 28, 2013

Janet Napolitano. Image: Wikimedia Commons
Janet Napolitano has ignored a letter written by New Jersey Congressman Leonard Lance calling for the Department of Homeland Security chief to attend a congressional briefing and provide an explanation as to why the DHS has committed to purchasing more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the last year.
Lance, who first promised to investigate the matter during a Tea Party event on March 15, sent a letter five days later noting how there was “growing public concern surrounding the Department’s procurement of ammunition.”
“He is not asking for Napolitano to testify but to give us a congressional briefing because Congress wasn’t aware of it. It deserves an answer,” Lance spokesman Todd Mitchell told the Daily Record.
Over a week after the letter was sent, Lance’s office has still not received a response, similar to how 15 other members of Congress were stonewalled by the DHS when they demanded to know if the huge bullet purchases were an attempt by the federal agency to restrict ammunition supplies.
Instead of a formal explanation, the federal agency released a glib statement to the media claiming the amount of ammunition purchased was not abnormal, that the bullets were bought in bulk “because it’s cheaper for the agency,” and that the rounds were for training purposes only.
However, the DHS has completely failed to address the fundamental flaw in their explanation. Most of the bullets purchased are hollow point rounds which are twice as expensive as full metal jacket bullets, rendering the claim the agency is buying in bulk to save money redundant.
As former Marine Richard Mason told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”
Earlier this week, a weapons manufacturer who supplies ammunition to the federal government told the nationally syndicated Savage Nation radio show that the ammo purchases were an attempt to “control the amount of market that’s available on the commercial market at any time,” by forcing manufacturers to hold back stock.
Ammunition is in short supply across the country, with police departments being forced to barter between themselves to meet demand while gun stores across America have resorted to bullet rationing.
Earlier this week, the DHS put out a solicitation asking for 360,000 more bullets to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.
Last week, retired United States Army Captain Terry M. Hestilow sent a letter to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) warning that the ammo purchases represent “a bold threat of war by that agency (DHS), and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America.”

houghtam
03-28-2013, 02:44 PM
Big Sis Ignores Congressman’s Demand For Briefing on Bullet Buys

“Congress deserves an answer” on huge ammo purchases
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
March 28, 2013

Janet Napolitano. Image: Wikimedia Commons
Janet Napolitano has ignored a letter written by New Jersey Congressman Leonard Lance calling for the Department of Homeland Security chief to attend a congressional briefing and provide an explanation as to why the DHS has committed to purchasing more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the last year.
Lance, who first promised to investigate the matter during a Tea Party event on March 15, sent a letter five days later noting how there was “growing public concern surrounding the Department’s procurement of ammunition.”
“He is not asking for Napolitano to testify but to give us a congressional briefing because Congress wasn’t aware of it. It deserves an answer,” Lance spokesman Todd Mitchell told the Daily Record.
Over a week after the letter was sent, Lance’s office has still not received a response, similar to how 15 other members of Congress were stonewalled by the DHS when they demanded to know if the huge bullet purchases were an attempt by the federal agency to restrict ammunition supplies.
Instead of a formal explanation, the federal agency released a glib statement to the media claiming the amount of ammunition purchased was not abnormal, that the bullets were bought in bulk “because it’s cheaper for the agency,” and that the rounds were for training purposes only.
However, the DHS has completely failed to address the fundamental flaw in their explanation. Most of the bullets purchased are hollow point rounds which are twice as expensive as full metal jacket bullets, rendering the claim the agency is buying in bulk to save money redundant.
As former Marine Richard Mason told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”
Earlier this week, a weapons manufacturer who supplies ammunition to the federal government told the nationally syndicated Savage Nation radio show that the ammo purchases were an attempt to “control the amount of market that’s available on the commercial market at any time,” by forcing manufacturers to hold back stock.
Ammunition is in short supply across the country, with police departments being forced to barter between themselves to meet demand while gun stores across America have resorted to bullet rationing.
Earlier this week, the DHS put out a solicitation asking for 360,000 more bullets to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.
Last week, retired United States Army Captain Terry M. Hestilow sent a letter to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) warning that the ammo purchases represent “a bold threat of war by that agency (DHS), and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America.”

Perfectly reasonable to ask why.

Then inevitably when an explanation comes out, it doesn't fall in line with the conspiracy theory, and it's not good enough. Self-perpetuation.

My guess is that's why it's not even being answered. There are perfectly reasonable explanations, but the birthers/truthers/conspiracy theorists don't want to hear the real answers, they want confirmation of theirs.

baja
03-28-2013, 02:54 PM
Perfectly reasonable to ask why.

Then inevitably when an explanation comes out, it doesn't fall in line with the conspiracy theory, and it's not good enough. Self-perpetuation.

My guess is that's why it's not even being answered. There are perfectly reasonable explanations, but the birthers/truthers/conspiracy theorists don't want to hear the real answers, they want confirmation of theirs.


Here in lays my feelings of helpfulness.

Why don't you say to Janet Napolitano what you say to me?

Answer the question Janet

No DHS buys 2 B bullets and you give them a pass.

That's the Department of Homeland Security doing this. Are you expecting invasion? If not what is this mega purchase for? Why won't DHS answer the question from 8 separate congressman?

houghtam
03-28-2013, 03:11 PM
Here in lays my feelings of helpfulness.

Why don't you say to Janet Napolitano what you say to me?

Answer the question Janet

No DHS buys 2 B bullets and you give them a pass.

That's the Department of Homeland Security doing this. Are you expecting invasion? If not what is this mega purchase for? Why won't DHS answer the question from 8 separate congressman?

Why don't I ask Napolitano? I thought I made it clear. I don't see any problems with it. I simply said its reasonable to ask. You apparently never thought it may also be reasonable not to answer, considering some of the theories out there. I would imagine the people in the government have better things to do than entertain every crackpot theory whose author deems it reasonable.

Remember, you thought it was "reasonable" for the state of Arizona to explore leaving Obama off the ballot because they had questions about his birth certificate, and then quickly disappeared when I introduced you to the full faith and credit clause of the US constitution.

Reasonable for one does not necessarily equal reasonable for another, baja.

baja
03-28-2013, 03:15 PM
Aparently

houghtam
03-28-2013, 03:30 PM
Aparently

What's the cutoff for crazy, baja?

Obviously you can't believe every conspiracy theory. So what makes you think the US Government should address this theory and not, say, the face-eating zombie in Florida which was caused by a biological accident at an Illinois University?

Should the president create a new cabinet member, the Secretary of Explaining Unnatural Phenomena, with a whole task force dedicated to rooting out every crackpot theory out there and dismantling it?

What is the cutoff for crazy?

Is there anything that anyone does that doesn't have some trumped up ulterior motive behind it?

baja
03-28-2013, 03:44 PM
YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF


I'll say this, getting justification from DHS for the purchase of 2 B bullets with a high number of them being hollow point certainly is not anywhere close to the cutoff.

What I find over the top is you trusting DHS has a good reason for this head scratching purchase even in the light of their arrogant dismissal of the congress of the USA that is seeking answers. Arn't you even curious?

elsid13
03-28-2013, 03:55 PM
Probably equipment returning from Iraq and headed toward mothballing in the desert somewhere.

You are exactly right. They will be overhauled or demil in either Army depot or contractor plant and then stored in the high desert if they are needed again.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 03:55 PM
YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF


I'll say this, getting justification from DHS for the purchase of 2 B bullets with a high number of them being hollow point certainly is not anywhere close to the cutoff.

What I find over the top is you trusting DHS has a good reason for this head scratching purchase even in the light of their arrogant dismissal of the congress of the USA that is seeking answers. Arn't you even curious?

Not really, considering the research I've done on the subject that hasn't involved going to conspiracy theory websites.

Oh!

Now I'm part of the conspiracy.

baja
03-28-2013, 04:02 PM
Not really, considering the research I've done on the subject that hasn't involved going to conspiracy theory websites.

Oh!

Now I'm part of the conspiracy.

Yes you are bound to uncover a conspiracy by going to non conspiracy web sites.


So you must have the answer to why DHS purchased 2B bullets. Please share it.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 04:26 PM
Yes you are bound to uncover a conspiracy by going to non conspiracy web sites.


So you must have the answer to why DHS purchased 2B bullets. Please share it.

Fed's already answered it. It's a quote, it's 1.6B, and it's UP TO, over the next 5 years.

Now you answer this question.

IF the government were trying to take us over, which is easier to believe? Explain your answer.

A) The government is PUBLICLY buying up billions of rounds of ammunition, carting around military vehicles, and has been at work for years in order to wage an open war on its citizenry

OR

B) The government is secretly creating a bio-toxin in a secret laboratory at an Illinois university which will cause people to turn on and cannibalize each other, thus reducing the population and the resistance, and this bio-toxin was accidentally released, causing people to eat each others' faces off

B is the obvious choice. Why aren't you outraged and demanding answers about this?

Why do you think the Nazis built the death camps? It's because after hundreds of thousands of bullets, they realized that shooting people is a terribly ineffective way to kill someone. It's a lot easier to pass laws marginalizing certain people, get the majority to turn on them, and they do the dirty work for you.

Now, let's look at the big picture. I'll reiterate what I said in another post. IF there is an armed uprising in this country, it won't be the liberals coming to take away your guns. Nor will it be the government waging war against the people who pay its bills. It will be a small segment of the population who uses fear to manipulate public opinion, and who then use that public opinion to affect policy. You can already see it in the attempts to take voting rights away from people who deserve every right to vote in the name of defeating a voter fraud boogeyman that doesn't exist. You can already hear it in the rhetoric of posters on this very board, blaming brown people, women and gays for the troubles the nation faces.

If you're truly concerned about who is taking over this country, stay away from the conspiracy websites. Do some real research. Look into what actually caused events like the Holocaust (assuming you believe it happened). I guarantee you if you take the same classes I have...if you study, say, the way anti-Semites in Germany described "the Jewish problem", maybe you would be a little less outspoken on how evil the government is, and more outspoken on how evil people like errand, txtebow, Dramanyuk, cutthemdown, Dr. Broncenstein, Meck77 and Pony Boy are.

Arkie
03-28-2013, 04:36 PM
Just because people have a different political view than you doesn't make them evil.

baja
03-28-2013, 04:38 PM
Look Houghtam either you see what is going on or you don't. No amount a bander between us will change that. I have linked several excellent films in my thread Fantasy? please see them for your answers. That is you best opportunity to understand the scope of this.

I think you are using this forum to display what you believe to be your cleverness and high intellect. That's fine if that is what you are into I just don't have the time to play along with you. This is the third of fourth time I have referenced you to the Fantasy thread. The films there are so much more comprehensive than I could ever be with my posts here.

nyuk nyuk
03-28-2013, 04:43 PM
I think you are using this forum to display what you believe to be your cleverness and high intellect.

He's in the movie theater industry. Don't question him.

nyuk nyuk
03-28-2013, 04:44 PM
Just because people have a different political view than you doesn't make them evil.

Yes - it DOES. It's part of liberal tolerance.

nyuk nyuk
03-28-2013, 04:45 PM
YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF


I'll say this, getting justification from DHS for the purchase of 2 B bullets with a high number of them being hollow point certainly is not anywhere close to the cutoff.

What I find over the top is you trusting DHS has a good reason for this head scratching purchase even in the light of their arrogant dismissal of the congress of the USA that is seeking answers. Arn't you even curious?

DHS is a garbage agency and should have never been founded to begin with. It's like with mass shootings - a horrible overreaction.

As far as bullet purchases go, I see conflicting stories. Some say the feds have their own plant that makes it, some say they buy it from mainstream manufacturers. I haven't looked into it enough to make a real decision. Clearly the horse crap talk about gun bans is at least in part driving the run on weapons and bullets.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 04:52 PM
Just because people have a different political view than you doesn't make them evil.

No, but using coded language in order to sew fear and hatred, knowing or hoping it will affect policy, is. Saying black people are genetically inferior to white people is not a political view, nor is it a valid scientific theory.

elsid13
03-28-2013, 05:00 PM
DHS is a garbage agency and should have never been founded to begin with. It's like with mass shootings - a horrible overreaction.

As far as bullet purchases go, I see conflicting stories. Some say the feds have their own plant that makes it, some say they buy it from mainstream manufacturers. I haven't looked into it enough to make a real decision. Clearly the horse crap talk about gun bans is at least in part driving the run on weapons and bullets.

The plant is owned by the Government (Army) and leased out to the manufacturer (ATK). It is part of the national industrial reserve system set up just after WWII.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 06:45 PM
Giving you another chance Baja: How much ammunition does the DHS need for a year?

Think for yourself. Engage your brain. It's a matter of grade school level reasoning and math -- nothing fancy.

Linking to videos is not thinking for yourself. It's entirely the opposite of thinking for yourself. So: will you think for yourself?

Rohirrim
03-28-2013, 07:00 PM
Yes - it DOES. It's part of liberal tolerance.

I can think of no excuse for tolerating ignorance. Especially the brand of willful ignorance practiced by the Right.

baja
03-28-2013, 07:10 PM
Giving you another chance Baja: How much ammunition does the DHS need for a year?

Think for yourself. Engage your brain. It's a matter of grade school level reasoning and math -- nothing fancy.

Linking to videos is not thinking for yourself. It's entirely the opposite of thinking for yourself. So: will you think for yourself?

How can I ever thank you for this gracious EXTRA chance. YOU ARE TRULY A KIND AND HUMBLE MAN.

let's see, the entire US force during the height of the Iraq war used 6,000,000 rounds a month so if the DHS finds itself in a war they will have enough bullets to fight on for 28 years

and if you think this is for target practice why hollow point rounds which was a large part of the purchase. They cost twice as much as steel jacket rounds so there goes the money saving argument.

BTW hollow point rounds are outlawed for use in war by global agreement. so what ever will the DHS use them for?

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 07:15 PM
How can I ever thank you for this gracious EXTRA chance. YOU ARE TRULY A KIND AND HUMBLE MAN.


:rofl:


let's see, the entire US force during the height of the Iraq war used 6,000,000 rounds a month so if the DHS finds itself in a war they will have enough bullets to fight on for 28 years


Comparing apples to oranges there bub. The DHS is not using ammo in a warzone, they are using it primarily for training and supplying law enforcement.

Try again. So far you get a big fat F in grade school reasoning.


and if you think this is for target practice why hollow point rounds which was a large part of the purchase. They cost twice as much as steel jacket rounds so there goes the money saving argument.


What's the total amount of HP bullets ordered Baja? Love your vague, useless "large part of the purchase".

houghtam
03-28-2013, 07:16 PM
Baja, have you ever given any thought to the fact that if the government had as evil intentions as you say it does, and if even a fraction of all of these conspiracy theories were true, you and all the other people who discovered them would have been whacked along time ago?

Do you seriously think a government which plans on turning its weapons on its own citizens would allow you and others like you to shed light on what's really going on?

I can guarantee you one thing. If this government bore any resemblance to the Nazi Germany you so love to reference, you would be in jail right now.

Or dead.

baja
03-28-2013, 07:26 PM
:rofl:



Comparing apples to oranges there bub. The DHS is not using ammo in a warzone, they are using it primarily for training and supplying law enforcement.

Try again. So far you get a big fat F in grade school reasoning.



What's the total amount of HP bullets ordered Baja? Love your vague, useless "large part of the purchase".

More than 1 is cause for question given their stated use but here you go;

DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition

Arms build-up continues as Congress demands answers
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
March 25, 2013
While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year.

The DHS has now purchased over 2 billion rounds of ammo.
A solicitation on the Federal Business Opportunities website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.
Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”
Hollow point bullets are almost twice as expensive as full metal jackets, therefore the DHS’ explanation that it is buying huge quantities in bulk to “save money” doesn’t make sense.
As we reported yesterday, concerns about the apparent arms build-up are growing, with retired United States Army Captain Terry M. Hestilow sending a letter to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) warning that the ammo purchases represent “a bold threat of war by that agency (DHS), and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America.”

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 07:56 PM
More than 1 is cause for question given their stated use but here you go;

DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition

...



And your source is fudging things. The solicitation for the HP bullets does not indicate they are to be used for training only. It doesn't specify any particular use (why would a RFQ specify a use? that would be silly).

Here's the actual solicitation:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=22419062d923f87db4df15c676da7943&_cview=0

It's an RFQ, and hasn't even been filled. It's the only evidence you've brought they they've tried or have actually bought HP rounds.

So, so far they've bought 0 HP rounds based on what you've shown me. And even if they did, they have legit uses for it (no doubt the secrecy service and other organizations under the DHS don't mess around with FMJ for duty ammo) so it's no surprise they they buy it.


In any event, you didn't answer the question: how much ammo does the DHS need per year?

baja
03-28-2013, 08:31 PM
Dude if you don't have a shock & awe experience over the 2B bullet purchase by the DHS than I don't know what to tell you/ I don't think you have any idea how much 2 BILLION ROUNDS actually is.

Lets say there are 50,000 DHS employees that fire 10 rounds a day it would take 5 1/2 years to go through that many rounds.

barryr
03-28-2013, 08:35 PM
I'm still trying to figure out when those that wanted cuts in defense and the military started defending the build up of weaponry and ammunition? 2009? So the average Joe should have to go through tougher requirements to buy and keep a gun, but Homeland Security should add tons of such things without having to answer for it? "Interesting" country we have to say the least.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 08:48 PM
Dude if you don't have a shock & awe experience over the 2B bullet purchase by the DHS than I don't know what to tell you/ I don't think you have any idea how much 2 BILLION ROUNDS actually is.


The only people in "shock and awe" are the ignorant like you. How many time do I have to say it:

1.) They haven't bought 2 billion rounds. They have several contracts that add up to a MAXIMUM LIMIT AT A CERTAIN PRICE of that many. Do you not understand the difference?

2.) What they have contracted if over a FIVE YEAR PERIOD.

3.) Given what the DHS does (lots and lots of training), the amount of ammo in the RFQ is quite reasonable.

In other words, the DHS has negotiated a bulk rate on ammo for 5 years, with a maximum limit to the number of rounds that they can buy at that rate. They have not actually bought that much ammo.

You have to be pretty GD daft to not understand that.


Lets say there are 50,000 DHS employees that fire 10 rounds a day it would take 5 1/2 years to go through that many rounds.

Again: Based on your reasoning, how many rounds do they actually need? Why won't you answer such a simple question?

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 08:50 PM
I'm still trying to figure out when those that wanted cuts in defense and the military started defending the build up of weaponry and ammunition? 2009? So the average Joe should have to go through tougher requirements to buy and keep a gun, but Homeland Security should add tons of such things without having to answer for it? "Interesting" country we have to say the least.

There is no build up of weaponry and ammo.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 08:54 PM
^^

This.

When I worked for one of the pro sports teams in Cincinnati I was able to negotiate a deal with a local meat supplier that we could purchase several different types of hot dogs at a certain price, and because of our usage, that price was capped at a certain quantity.

My boss didn't look at the contract and blow a gasket after seeing the number of hot dogs we could buy at that price, and he definitely didn't say "there's no way our customers could eat that many!"

baja
03-28-2013, 09:28 PM
The only people in "shock and awe" are the ignorant like you. How many time do I have to say it:

1.) They haven't bought 2 billion rounds. They have several contracts that add up to a MAXIMUM LIMIT AT A CERTAIN PRICE of that many. Do you not understand the difference?

2.) What they have contracted if over a FIVE YEAR PERIOD.

3.) Given what the DHS does (lots and lots of training), the amount of ammo in the RFQ is quite reasonable.

In other words, the DHS has negotiated a bulk rate on ammo for 5 years, with a maximum limit to the number of rounds that they can buy at that rate. They have not actually bought that much ammo.

You have to be pretty GD daft to not understand that.



Again: Based on your reasoning, how many rounds do they actually need? Why won't you answer such a simple question?

Homeland Security needs 0 bullets in fact the whole mess needs to be decommissioned.

Now answer a question for me.

Why do we need Homeland Security.


Oh and if you can't confiscate the guns what is the next best thing.? You dry up the ammunition supply. How do you do that? Have DHS put in a requisition for 2 BILLION BULLETS.

Have you tried to buy a box of bullets lately? You can't.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 09:53 PM
Homeland Security needs 0 bullets in fact the whole mess needs to be decommissioned.


The coast guard doesn't need bullets?
The secret service doesn't need bullets?
The federal police don't need bullets?
The border patrol doesn't need bullets?
The FBI, Federal Marshals, various state police forces, etc. don't need bullets?

:rofl:


Now answer a question for me.

Why do we need Homeland Security.


I agree certain elements of HS are pointless, such as the TSA. I also agree that the umbrella agency itself is not necessary, though the previous situation was even more silly as it was the treasury dept. that ran many of those law enforcement agencies.

Doesn't mean I'm an ignoramus like you who thinks there aren't legit functions done by the current DHS.


Oh and if you can't confiscate the guns what is the next best thing.? You dry up the ammunition supply. How do you do that? Have DHS put in a requisition for 2 BILLION BULLETS.


Jesus ****in' christ, they did not requisition 2 billion bullets. Get a ****ing clue already.


Have you tried to buy a box of bullets lately? You can't.

Yes you can. I've purchased quite a bit of ammo and components lately 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, .300wm, 30-06, primers, powder, bullets, etc. There is a shortage of course -- caused by idiot hoarders.

I buy from Midway, and have the things I want on auto notify. Every few days they get a shipment of ammo and/or components., and within hours the hoarders have gobbled it all up.

See what Hornady, a major ammo and components maker has to say:

http://www.hornady.com/support/availability


The current political climate has caused extremely high demand on all shooting industry products, including ours. Empty retail shelves, long backorders, and exaggerated price increases on online auction sites – all fueled by rumors and conjecture – have amplified concerns about the availability of ammunition and firearms-related items.

If the information you hear doesn’t originate from Hornady Manufacturing, don’t believe it.

Here are some of rumors we’ve heard, and questions we’ve received:

Have you stopped production, or has the government forced you to stop?
Not at all.
Did you stop selling bullets so you could only make loaded ammunition?
Absolutely not.
Since we can’t find your product you must be selling it all to the government.
Nope, less than 5% of our sales are to government entities.
Why can’t you make more? Ramp up production? Turn on all the machines?
We’ve been steadily growing our production for a long time, especially the last five years. We’ve added presses, lathes, CNC equipment, people and space. Many popular items are produced 24 hours a day. Several hundred Hornady employees work overtime every week to produce as much as safely possible. If there is any question about that – please take a tour of the factory. You’ll be amazed at what you see.

We are producing as much as we can; much more than last year, which was a lot more than the year before, etc. No one wants to ship more during this time than we do.

We appreciate everyone’s understanding and patience. We don’t know when the situation will improve, so please bear with us a little longer. And remember, when it comes to Hornady Manufacturing, if you don’t hear it from us, please don’t believe it.

houghtam
03-28-2013, 10:01 PM
Homeland Security needs 0 bullets in fact the whole mess needs to be decommissioned.

Now answer a question for me.

Why do we need Homeland Security.


Oh and if you can't confiscate the guns what is the next best thing.? You dry up the ammunition supply. How do you do that? Have DHS request a quote for a maximum of 2 BILLION BULLETS over 5 years.

Have you tried to buy a box of bullets lately? You can't.

#1, fixed your post in bold.

#2, Why aren't you putting that question to the gun nuts as well?

Perhaps if every time one of their mouth-breathing brethren shoots up a place they didn't go crazy and buy up everything they can get their hands on, there'd be more bullets to go around.

Also, you're leaving out the fact (again, or still, I can't tell) that although the RFQ was made by DHS, they plan on only using 750M of them, again, for training. The rest are being purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp

Edit: Meh, Fed you're doing a good enough job on your own of showing baja the research he's missing. I'm going to sleep.

Fedaykin
03-28-2013, 10:08 PM
I was in a gun shop 2 days after the election (was on a hunting trip). The owner was discussion how by noon the day after the election he'd been cleaned out of almost all handgun ammo, 5.56, .233, and 7.62, and had sold 20 some AR-15s.

Lots of paranoid idiots is what is causing the shortages, not a (completely non-existant as we've discussed) giant purchase from DHS.

cutthemdown
03-29-2013, 03:33 AM
Of course there was a run on ammo and assault rifles. When your govt says things like we should make those illegal, and other politicians talk about taxing ammo, you get out and get what you can while you can.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 09:41 AM
Sure....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

Dig a little deeper, Baja. Those 2700 vehicles, were not tanks, but modifications to Marine Corps vehicles.

NAVY

Navistar Defense, L.L.C., Warrenville, Ill., is being awarded an $879,923,195 firm-fixed-priced delivery order 0023 under previously awarded contract (M67854-07-D-5032) for the procurement of 2,717 units of rolling chassis; 10 engineering change proposals; and 25 contract data requirements lists, for MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. Work will be performed in West Point, Miss., and is expected to be completed by the end of October 2013. Procurement funds in the amount of $879,923,195 will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The original contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.

http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701

houghtam
03-29-2013, 10:05 AM
Of course there was a run on ammo and assault rifles. When your govt says things like we should make those illegal, and other politicians talk about taxing ammo, you get out and get what you can while you can.

Apparently you missed the run on weapons and ammo in 2008 after his first election, when he was still graded as an F by the Brady Campaign.

It's not a normal reaction, it's paranoia.

houghtam
03-29-2013, 10:08 AM
Dig a little deeper, Baja. Those 2700 vehicles, were not tanks, but modifications to Marine Corps vehicles.



http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701

Baja won't be happy until they've spent more millions on filling in the gun slots and stripping off the extra armor.

baja
03-29-2013, 10:17 AM
25 contract data requirements lists, for MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles.

Yes I know they are not tanks in the strict sense of the word but why do we need these vehicles on the streets of America. The bullets the MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, seems like Homeland Security is gearing up for civil unrest.

BTW what about this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSkQgnEV-Q

Now look into FEMA camps

Add it all up and what do ya got?

houghtam
03-29-2013, 01:02 PM
Yes I know they are not tanks in the strict sense of the word but why do we need these vehicles on the streets of America. The bullets the MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, seems like Homeland Security is gearing up for civil unrest.

BTW what about this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSkQgnEV-Q

Now look into FEMA camps

Add it all up and what do ya got?

How about we ask the people of New Orleans and New York?

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1209/120906slidell.htm

"The sheer volume of medical assistance calls and calls involving high-water evacuations throughout the city and parish were mounting," said William Black, HSI New Orleans supervisory special agent and Rapid Response Team mission coordinator. "The only way to reach many of the residences was with a high-water vehicle...

HSI New Orleans is equipped with a Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle that its Special Response Team and Rapid Response Team can deploy during emergencies. Weighing in at 30,000 pounds and standing approximately nine feet tall, this heavy-duty vehicle is well suited for emergency high-water rescue operations."

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1211/121115newyork.htm

In many areas, the HSI New York SRT utilized its Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle (MRAP) to pull destroyed government vehicles onto the street so they could be towed out of the area.

Oh wow, interesting, they work in high water. I'm sure the residents of Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi and Louisiana would be glad to hear that. Probably those along the eastern seaboard and Gulf Coast, too. And I would imagine they could probably be useful in landslides, as well. Let's add California, Oregon and Washington to the mix, as well.

Wow, look at that, there's only like...13 states...? without significant regions of land that suffer flood damage.

But these links were from a government website. Probably disinformation.

Nevermind that these vehicles have been in service for years.

Where were you in 2000 when the Navy sold a bunch of its patrol ships to the Coast Guard??

I can only imagine what your reaction would have been after the Civil War when the cavalry sold a lot of its horses to local police forces.

Good God, if the internet and baja had been around back then...can you imagine?

Rohirrim
03-29-2013, 01:31 PM
Yes I know they are not tanks in the strict sense of the word but why do we need these vehicles on the streets of America. The bullets the MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, seems like Homeland Security is gearing up for civil unrest.

BTW what about this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSkQgnEV-Q

Now look into FEMA camps

Add it all up and what do ya got?

My guess is that FEMA failed so miserably after Katrina that Obama doesn't want that sort of thing to happen again. Be prepared, like the Boy Scouts say.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 01:31 PM
Yes I know they are not tanks in the strict sense of the word but why do we need these vehicles on the streets of America. The bullets the MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, seems like Homeland Security is gearing up for civil unrest.

BTW what about this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSkQgnEV-Q

Now look into FEMA camps

Add it all up and what do ya got?

Baja, those 2700 vehicles were ordered and contracted by the Marine Corp, not DHS.

The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.

baja
03-29-2013, 02:07 PM
DHS orders nearly 3,000 mine-resistant armored vehicles


http://www.examiner.com/government

http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-orders-nearly-3-000-mine-resistant-armored-vehicles

houghtam
03-29-2013, 02:10 PM
DHS orders nearly 3,000 mine-resistant armored vehicles


http://www.examiner.com/government

http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-orders-nearly-3-000-mine-resistant-armored-vehicles

Awesome. I feel 3000 times safer in the event of an emergency.

baja
03-29-2013, 02:16 PM
Awesome. I feel 3000 times safer in the event of an emergency.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=DHS+ORDERS+2700+armored+vehicles&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&biw=1264&bih=664&tbm=isch&tbnid=H1BNbfQuOn2dbM:&imgrefurl=http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/80809-government-arms-race-kicks-into-high-gear-as-dhs-buys-2700-armored-vehicles-for-streets-of-america&docid=jpB1Lfy2-8H9yM&imgurl=http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/March20130/armored-vehicle.jpg&w=475&h=320&ei=ivdVUZWbHIqIiALLyYHIDg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:6,s:0,i:102&iact=rc&dur=4090&page=1&tbnh=184&tbnw=274&start=0&ndsp=15&tx=160&ty=60
Because this what you need in an emergency....


This equipment is used in the event of an insurgency.


Ask yourself this why is the DHS worried about insurgency in the USA?

Who are the insurgents?

houghtam
03-29-2013, 02:20 PM
http://www.examiner.com/government

Because this what you need in an emergency....


This equipment is used in the event of an insurgency.


Ask yourself this why is the DHS worried about insurgency in the USA?

Who are the insurgents?

Post 87.

The "insurgents" are things like vehicles trapped in a flood. MRAPs are good at taking them out.

baja
03-29-2013, 02:22 PM
Post 87.

The "insurgents" are things like vehicles trapped in a flood. MRAPs are good at taking them out.

A million dollar tow truck - OK we are done here. Bye....

houghtam
03-29-2013, 02:30 PM
A million dollar tow truck - OK we are done here. Bye....

Yeah because tow trucks can go in 4 feet of water.

No, we're most definitely NOT done here. You've just been shown that these vehicles have been in service for years, they work great in disaster areas, as well as Fed's thing about the ammunition.

You chose not to believe reality and math in favor of a conspiracy. Not my fault you can't open your eyes to the truth before you, man!

baja
03-29-2013, 02:39 PM
Yeah because tow trucks can go in 4 feet of water.

No, we're most definitely NOT done here. You've just been shown that these vehicles have been in service for years, they work great in disaster areas, as well as Fed's thing about the ammunition.

You chose not to believe reality and math in favor of a conspiracy. Not my fault you can't open your eyes to the truth before you, man!

So in the middle of the chaotic aftermath of a hurricane you want rescue cars under4 feet of water with high tech armored vehicles - no we are certainly done here.

houghtam
03-29-2013, 02:41 PM
So in the middle of the chaotic aftermath of a hurricane you want rescue cars under4 feet of water with high tech armored vehicles - no we are certainly done here.

READ. THE. ****ING. LINK.

THEY. ALREADY. DO. IT.

baja
03-29-2013, 02:49 PM
READ. THE. ****ING. LINK.

THEY. ALREADY. DO. IT.

and you believe that?

Where I'm from we use back hoes

anyway you believe main stream news owned by the very people that do want to create a global government to control your every move.

You are in the matrix and I am not that is why we are done. There is no way I can open your eyes as long as you use main stream media to support your position and discard ALL alternative independent news outlets as conspiracy sites.

houghtam
03-29-2013, 02:57 PM
and you believe that?

Where I'm from we use back hoes

anyway you believe main stream news owned by the very people that do want to create a global government to control your every move.

You are in the matrix and I am not that is why we are done. There is no way I can open your eyes as long as you use main stream media to support your position and discard ALL alternative independent news outlets as conspiracy sites.

LOL

houghtam
03-29-2013, 03:01 PM
Hey baja, is math the same in the real world as it is in the matrix?

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 03:09 PM
DHS orders nearly 3,000 mine-resistant armored vehicles


http://www.examiner.com/government

http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-orders-nearly-3-000-mine-resistant-armored-vehicles

Really, Baja, you're using Gateway Pundit as a source? :rofl:

Fact Checking: ‘Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks’
Conspiracy mongers are still spreading a lie about DHS “tanks”

This week, conspiracy hounds of the internet were set alight by a rumor that President Obama has ordered “2,700 Light-Armored Tanks” for the Department of Homeland Security. Leading the charge was Jim Hoft who runs the blog Gateway Pundit:

Update 1: Business Insider confirms this report and DHS is only in possession of 16 MRAP and the USMC getting the 2,717:

An earlier version of this post included a figure of over 2,700 vehicles, as cited from the original RT link. This figure likely comes from a press release from Navistar Defense, mentioning delivery of 2,717 to the U.S. Marine Corps. A DHS Spokesman confirmed with Business Insider that they have only 16 nationwide.

Update 2: Foreign Policy updates their story linking with Business Insider.

As one would expect, tales of DHS buying 2,700 MRAPs from the Army (in reality, DHS only has 16, a fleet that it started building around 2008) inflamed the government conspiracy corners of the blogosphere. Just do a quick Google search of the term DHS MRAP and you can see for yourself.

Update 3: Snopes confirms that DHS will not be receiving 2,700 tanks and has determined this to be FALSE.

A March 2013 claim that the Department of Homeland Security had “purchased 2,700 tanks” for use in the U.S. was based on a year-old (i.e., March 2012) announcement that the DHS had engaged a contractor to install new chassis on a number of Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles that were being returned from deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan…

Update 4: Navistar Press Release.

LISLE, Ill., March 15, 2012 /PRNewswire/ — Navistar Defense, LLC received an award to conduct the installation work associated with its January order to upgrade 2,717 International® MaxxPro® Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles with a new vehicle chassis. The $21 million contract from the U.S. Army Contracting Command is just one of Navistar’s many reset offerings aimed at revitalizing existing defense assets for future missions.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 03:11 PM
Fox's Dobbs Pushes Conspiracy That Government Is "Arming Up"

Fox's Lou Dobbs hyped the false claim that the Department of Homeland Security bought 2700 light armored vehicles, echoing claims made on fringe conservative blogs. In fact, the order for 2717 new light armored vehicles is coming from the United States Marine Corps -- not the Department of Homeland Security.

On the March 4 edition of Fox Business' Lou Dobbs Tonight, host Lou Dobbs claimed that DHS is buying "2 billion rounds of ammunition" and, "allegedly," "2700 light armored vehicles." Dobbs then asked his guest, NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, "What in the world is going on as the Homeland Department -- the Department of Homeland Security seems to be arming up and the administration is trying to disarm American citizens?"


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/04/foxs-dobbs-pushes-conspiracy-that-government-is/192905

houghtam
03-29-2013, 03:13 PM
Really, Baja, you're using Gateway Pundit as a source? :rofl:

Fact Checking: ‘Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks’
Conspiracy mongers are still spreading a lie about DHS “tanks”

NOPE.

MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

LOL

Mad rep to the first person who can photoshop me a picture of Neo, Morpheus and a Gorn driving an MRAP vehicle to go take away people's guns.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 03:18 PM
NOPE.

MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

LOL

Mad rep to the first person who can photoshop me a picture of Neo, Morpheus and a Gorn driving an MRAP vehicle to go take away people's guns.

It's a strange day when Baja starts using the looney Right Wing blogs as a 'news' source. A source and story that has been repeatedly debunked.

Very Gaffneyesque! :giggle:

baja
03-29-2013, 03:24 PM
Really, Baja, you're using Gateway Pundit as a source? :rofl:

Fact Checking: ‘Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks’
Conspiracy mongers are still spreading a lie about DHS “tanks”

The Marine corp bought them you say.

There are several sources saying it is the DHS that bought them. We will see which source has it right. This is not over yet. Are they doing damage control or is it in fact true this is a marine corps purchase? I will continue to follow the story. If my sources are wrong I will admit it. If it turns out your sources are covering up the story will you admit it?

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 03:36 PM
The Marine corp bought them you say.

There are several sources saying it is the DHS that bought them. We will see which source has it right. This is not over yet. Are they doing damage control or is it in fact true this is a marine corps purchase? I will continue to follow the story. If my sources are wrong I will admit it. If it turns out your sources are covering up the story will you admit it?

Of course I will, it's always about the facts.

baja
03-29-2013, 03:41 PM
Of course I will, it's always about the facts.

I know you will DB.

just a little frustrated with some of the other posters today..

Fedaykin
03-29-2013, 04:56 PM
You know all this stuff is a matter of public record here, don't you Baja?

Here's the actual contract for the 2717 vehicles: http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701

It's a DoD contract for the Marines. Doesn't even mention the DHS.

Engage your brain, try to think for yourself. Stop just lapping up conspiracy bull**** like a naive child and then regurgitating it here.

As far as I can tell the idea that the DHS bought 2700 of these things is nothing more than a complete fabrication made up to stir up the conspiracy nutters like you. Care to show me some evidence that it's not?

baja
03-29-2013, 06:03 PM
You know all this stuff is a matter of public record here, don't you Baja?

Here's the actual contract for the 2717 vehicles: http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701

It's a DoD contract for the Marines. Doesn't even mention the DHS.

Engage your brain, try to think for yourself. Stop just lapping up conspiracy bull**** like a naive child and then regurgitating it here.

As far as I can tell the idea that the DHS bought 2700 of these things is nothing more than a complete fabrication made up to stir up the conspiracy nutters like you. Care to show me some evidence that it's not?

MAYBE YOU NOTICED THAT PO WAS FROM JANUARY 9, 2012

Fedaykin
03-29-2013, 06:21 PM
MAYBE YOU NOTICED THAT PO WAS FROM JANUARY 9, 2012

It is indeed the contract in question, what's your beef with the date? Just because your nutjob sites keep recycling the story and spinning more bull****, doesn't change the fact that this is a contract for the DoD to upgrade some military equipment, not a contract for the DHS to buy these things.

Try again. Do some actual, real thinking this time. I know you are out of practice, but try anyway. What evidence do you have that the DHS has purchased 2,717 combat vehicles?

houghtam
03-29-2013, 06:50 PM
MAYBE YOU NOTICED THAT PO WAS FROM JANUARY 9, 2012

Yeah and this story first started gaining momentum in August 2012.

You're just a little late to the party.

baja
03-29-2013, 07:29 PM
It is indeed the contract in question, what's your beef with the date? Just because your nutjob sites keep recycling the story and spinning more bull****, doesn't change the fact that this is a contract for the DoD to upgrade some military equipment, not a contract for the DHS to buy these things.

Try again. Do some actual, real thinking this time. I know you are out of practice, but try anyway. What evidence do you have that the DHS has purchased 2,717 combat vehicles?


Ya know I want to tell what a pleasure it is conversing with. Your charming personality is slowly winning over. You must be a real charmer in your daily life.


Navistar Defense, L.L.C., Warrenville, Ill., is being awarded an $879,923,195 firm-fixed-priced delivery order 0023 under previously awarded contract (M67854-07-D-5032) for the procurement of 2,717 units of rolling chassis; 10 engineering change proposals; and 25 contract data requirements lists, for MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. Work will be performed in West Point, Miss., and is expected to be completed by the end of October 2013. Procurement funds in the amount of $879,923,195 will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The original contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.


This article is about a refit, possibly to accommodate the needs of DHS. The original story I read stated they were going to leave these previously purchased vehicles in Iraq because they were too costly to bring back relative to their value (possibly explains the date of the original purchase) so the plan was to leave them until the DHS decided they wanted them and they were shipped back thus the photos of them on the train in route to their new destination. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on rather or not they are for DHS but I will follow the story until I am satisfied. Until then....

baja
03-29-2013, 07:32 PM
Yeah and this story first started gaining momentum in August 2012.

You're just a little late to the party.


Link Colombo

Fedaykin
03-29-2013, 07:39 PM
Ya know I want to tell what a pleasure it is conversing with. Your charming personality is slowly winning over. You must be a real charmer in your daily life.


Uh oh, Baja no likey!


This article is about a refit, possibly to accommodate the needs of DHS. The original story I read stated they were going to leave these previously purchased vehicles in Iraq because they were too costly to bring back relative to their value (possibly explains the date of the original purchase) so the plan was to leave them until the DHS decided they wanted them and they were shipped back thus the photos of them on the train in route to their new destination. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on rather or not they are for DHS but I will follow the story until I am satisfied. Until then....


Ahh, a mysterious, unattributed source. You saw a story, at some time? Awesome! Now I'm convinced!