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Meck77
03-17-2013, 06:09 AM
(Reuters) - The euro zone agreed on Saturday to hand Cyprus a bailout worth 10 billion euros ($13 billion), but demanded depositors in its banks forfeit some money to stave off bankruptcy despite the risk of a wider run on savings.

The eastern Mediterranean island becomes the fifth country after Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain to turn to the euro zone for financial help during the region's debt crisis.

In a radical departure from previous aid packages - and one that gave rise to incredulity and anger across the country - euro zone finance ministers forced Cyprus' savers to pay up to 10 percent of their deposits to raise almost 6 billion euros.

continued....


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus-idUSBRE92E02220130316

orinjkrush
03-17-2013, 08:24 AM
it is amazing. wonder if this portends some kind of domino effect throughout the EU?

Rohirrim
03-17-2013, 08:45 AM
If they wanted to go after money-laundering Russians they should have been a little more focused in their attack, making sure that pensioners don't get swept up with drug dealers. It would be an interesting scenario if the governments collapsed while the banks and global corporations remained. A whole new kind of world.

mhgaffney
03-17-2013, 10:04 AM
They call theft a "deposit levy" !!!

Something not too different happened in the US in the 1930s. The gov't required citizens who owned gold to turn it over to the fed gov't for $35 an ounce.

Not long after bankers were paid more -- I can't recall the number but it was maybe $40-45 an ounce.

mhgaffney
03-17-2013, 07:41 PM
Jim Sinclair says gold is about to surge to new highs because of gold wars now raging


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/3/16_Sinclair_-_One_Of_The_Most_Important_Events_In_History_%26_G old.html


Today legendary trader Jim Sinclair told King World News we have just witnessed one of the most important events in history and it will have a major impact on the gold market. Sinclair, who’s father was business partners with legendary trader Jesse Livermore, had this to say in this extraordinary and exclusive KWN interview:

“The wire reports on the Cyprus situation are working overtime to try to make the case that 80% of the deposits belong to the people of Cyprus, and only 20% of the deposits belong to the Russians. That’s absolutely false. After 1985, when the ‘Robber Barrons’ of Russia took over the general economics of Russia, that was the transformation from the KGB to private business. The primary place for exported Russian funds was Cyprus.

Now, there is one leader in the world that would be very dangerous to challenge and that is Putin of Russia....

“What’s just happened is the IMF has backed up, lauded, supported, and publicized, as if it were a victory, the taking of 10% of what really turns out to be 80% of Russian ‘black money.’ Russian ‘black money’ is KGB money, now in business. The leader of Russia (Putin) was a former KGB official. Whose money do you think they have taken? This is the biggest mistake the IMF could possibly have ever made.”


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/3/16_Sinclair_-_One_Of_The_Most_Important_Events_In_History_%26_G old.html

mhgaffney
03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
Paul Craig Roberts says three bubbles are about to go POP!!!!

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2013/3/16_Dr._Paul_Craig_Roberts.html

W*GS
03-17-2013, 08:00 PM
gaffe, you think Venus was a comet.

You're ****ed in the head.

Rohirrim
03-18-2013, 07:36 AM
Der Gaffo waits in the darkness, gleefully rubbing his hands together in anticipation of the fall of the world. Macabre, really. Given that he lives in a little cabin out in the woods, like the Unabomber, I can understand where he's coming from. He's invested all this energy in building his little life raft. If the world doesn't crash, what was it all for?

W*GS
03-18-2013, 07:52 AM
Der Gaffo waits in the darkness, gleefully rubbing his hands together in anticipation of the fall of the world. Macabre, really. Given that he lives in a little cabin out in the woods, like the Unabomber, I can understand where he's coming from. He's invested all this energy in building his little life raft. If the world doesn't crash, what was it all for?

gaffe is a death cultist. Nothing would please him more than to see the billions of us he labels "idiots" and "clowns" (all because we don't follow Messiah-gaffe) suffer and die. He desperately wants vindication, but that requires lots of death.

He's one sick ****ed-up puppy. Who communicates from the crapper.

Meck77
03-18-2013, 09:44 AM
Wow they completely shut the damn banks down til thursday.

Unreal.

I could see someone going ho hum if you didn't have any substantial money in a bank but if you do this should serve as a wake up call.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cyprus-banks-to-stay-shut-until-thursday-ap-2013-03-18?link=MW_home_latest_news

Don't be so naive to think it couldn't happen in America. Oh wait it already is! When the full force of QE is felt people will realize they maybe they should have paid better attention.

Rohirrim
03-18-2013, 10:37 AM
Oddly enough, the sale of mattresses in Europe have gone up. ;D

The banks have really screwed the pooch on this one. I foresee Europeans going with an all currency economy and maybe even some good old black market stuff as well. Actually, it's probably a good thing for the world to tear down the credit economy and flush it. It's time that wealth actually represented something more than numbers on a screen. Wealth should represent production, not unicorns.

Play2win
03-18-2013, 10:38 AM
So how soon before the population curve is too great, and there are too many people in this world, for currency to continue to be effective?

Rohirrim
03-18-2013, 10:42 AM
Currency is local.

orinjkrush
03-18-2013, 10:58 AM
If they wanted to go after money-laundering Russians they should have been a little more focused in their attack, making sure that pensioners don't get swept up with drug dealers. It would be an interesting scenario if the governments collapsed while the banks and global corporations remained. A whole new kind of world.

cool movie idea!

Meck77
03-18-2013, 11:44 AM
Currency is local.

No gold is a global currency.

For those paying attention a buying opportunity happened in the sub 1,600 range.

I bet the people who just lost a few million euros wish they weren't sitting on a stack of paper that is being taken from them.

Smiling Assassin27
03-18-2013, 11:54 AM
C'mon Meck, Cyprus is just a 'special case', right? You know, just like Greece...and like Spain is going to be..and Portugal...if i'm in Spain or Portugal, I'm yanking all my cash out now before things hit there.

baja
03-18-2013, 01:01 PM
If they wanted to go after money-laundering Russians they should have been a little more focused in their attack, making sure that pensioners don't get swept up with drug dealers. It would be an interesting scenario if the governments collapsed while the banks and global corporations remained. A whole new kind of world.

That is the plan Ro. Now it is becoming more transparent. I have been warning you about this for years. Just what do you think "New World Order" means?


These are trial balloons they are sending up. If the people stand for this the next one will be more inclusive, growing more and more invasive until the take over is complete. If we the people do not wake up to what is happening soon we will all be slaves to the banking globalists. Truth is they are doing the bidding of another older more shadowy force. Google Rothschild Zionists.

baja
03-18-2013, 01:03 PM
Check bit coin - it's the ANSWER

Meck this will interest you

baja
03-18-2013, 01:08 PM
No gold is a global currency.

For those paying attention a buying opportunity happened in the sub 1,600 range.

I bet the people who just lost a few million euros wish they weren't sitting on a stack of paper that is being taken from them.

Gold, seeds, natural medicine, water purification and rural real property with water and good soil and yes guns. Been trying to convey this to my Bronco brothers and sisters for years now.

houghtam
03-18-2013, 01:16 PM
I see the sky is still falling for you guys.

And when nothing happens again, it will be somewhere else that is just the next domino before systemic collapse. Just y'all wait, I tells you what.

:rofl:

How long would you guys have stayed in The Swan pushing those numbers every 108 minutes?

W*GS
03-18-2013, 02:13 PM
Truth is they are doing the bidding of another older more shadowy force. Google Rothschild Zionists.

I thought it was these people:

http://azweird.com/img/arts/2010/Aug/31/670/reptilians.jpg

houghtam
03-18-2013, 02:24 PM
I thought it was these people:

http://azweird.com/img/arts/2010/Aug/31/670/reptilians.jpg

LOL

No dude, it's the Rothschildian sect of the Lizard People's Front of Judea.

baja
03-18-2013, 02:54 PM
It's always the intellectuals that are the last to figure it out (like the above two posters). They are a prisoner to their egoic mind. All you really have is a lot of information seeded in your mind by others that you have accepted as immutable truth. Think for yourself

W*GS
03-18-2013, 03:35 PM
It's always the intellectuals that are the last to figure it out (like the above two posters). They are a prisoner to their egoic mind. All you really have is a lot of information seeded in your mind by others that you have accepted as immutable truth. Think for yourself

I've seen plenty of this new-agey bull****, or whatever the heck you want to call it, to last me.

You're just a flake.

And an easily-duped and easily-led tool for various kinds of scumbags.

You have no critical thinking skills. You're as bad as gaffe.

baja
03-18-2013, 03:36 PM
Cyprus government raids private checking and savings accounts as citizens panic
Sunday, March 17, 2013
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com

(NaturalNews) The day is coming when the U.S. government will claim it "owns" a portion of all our bank accounts, and it will electronically drain our accounts of money in a grand theft scheme designed to pay off the banksters while decimating private savings.

Don't believe it? That day has already arrived in the European nation of Cyprus, where the government made a secret deal with the IMF to loot private bank accounts of up to 10% of current deposits. Banks went along with the theft, sealing off the funds from account holders. The government now plans to initiate millions of funds transfers as early as Tuesday, draining private accounts of the money the government now claims it owns.

"Restrictions have been imposed to stop people emptying their accounts or moving their money out of the country following the deal with other eurozone finance ministers, under which ordinary citizens' deposits will be directly raided for the first time," reports the Daily Mail.

It continues: "But financial experts said the move -- designed to stop Cyprus crashing out of the euro, potentially destroying the currency -- would send shock waves through the eurozone. If savers in other troubled nations fear their accounts might be next, they could withdraw their money and spark a catastrophic run on the banks."

Outright government theft of after-tax money

Just to be clear: even after you earn money by working your job and paying your taxes, any money you have in a bank account can be seized without notice as the government loots private savings to bail out wealthy bankers.

Not surprisingly, bank customers freaked out across Cyprus and began lining up in front of ATMs to withdraw as much cash as possible, causing fears of bank runs.

This seizing of private funds held in bank accounts is being called a "bailout" by eurozone cleptocrats. This is the model of theft that we are going to see replicated all across the EU as the global debt collapse takes hold. When wealthy bankers and investment houses make bad decisions on derivatives debt, they will be "bailed out" by a combination of governments creating fiat currency and / or looting the bank accounts of private citizens.

See this video for more (story continues below):



Now it's clear why DHS needs 1.6 billion bullets and armored assault vehicles

If you've been wondering why DHS thinks it needs 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition, 7,000+ full-auto assault rifles, and 2,700+ armored assault vehicles, all for use on the streets of America, the answer is now clear:

The U.S. government is going to loot private bank accounts when the global debt collapse strikes, stealing everybody's money and setting off nationwide riots that will be held in check using armored assault vehicles and automatic weapons fire.

This is what the government sees coming: A global collapse of the 1+ quadrillion dollars in derivatives debt, causing a runaway cascade of wealth destruction and bank failures. No nation on the planet carries more debt than the U.S. government, making it more vulnerable to a debt collapse than any other nation.

Once a global debt collapse spreads to America, the U.S. government will be unable to sell new debt, meaning it will have no choice but to print currency and start looting private bank accounts just to stay afloat. The value of the currency will be rapidly eroded, causing dollars that people have saved in bank accounts to plummet in value by the day. When the government loots private bank accounts, all hell will break loose in the streets, and a national state of Martial Law will be declared to try to stop the violent riots that will be unleashed in every major city.

The U.S. government, like every other government in the world, is like a cancer tumor in that it would rather kill the host than face death itself. There is no limit to the actions the U.S. government will take in an attempt to keep itself afloat, including confiscating private bank accounts, confiscating gold, demanding all gun owners turn in their guns or be arrested, and even confiscating large sectors of the economy such as the technology sector. Don't be surprised if the U.S. government seizes Google, for example, and then begins to censor the search results of all websites critical of the government.

All those in society who produce wealth will be told to hand over their wealth to the government. The billions of rounds of ammunition (and armored assault vehicles ordered by DHS) are to be used by the government to make sure the populace complies. Drones will also be used to kill any who resist by firing missiles at their homes or businesses. This is why Obama continues to claim the right to use drone strikes on U.S. soil to target "enemies" of America (meaning enemies of his regime).

How to protect yourself from government theft

As Cyprus clearly demonstrates, we are now entering the era of runaway government theft of private bank accounts. This is a warning sign of deep desperation, and it's a sign of things to come across the globe. The global debt pyramid is a fictional construct built on a house of cards, and it's going to come crashing down in a violent, desperate implosion that impacts every nation on the planet.

How can you protect yourself from this theft? Trade dollars for REAL things now, while you still can. Here's my list of real assets that are far more valuable than dollars, Euros or any other currency:

• Farm land with good topsoil and multiple water supplies (more valuable than gold!)
• Heirloom seeds


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039522_Cyprus_government_looting_bank_accounts.htm l#ixzz2Nvgc1JDR

Requiem
03-18-2013, 03:56 PM
Grandma always told me to put a quarter in the ceiling, I'm talkin' a quarter million.

Meck77
03-18-2013, 04:07 PM
I noticed the media is now calling it a "tax". Won't be long til the liberals start agreeing with "taxing" people's savings accounts in America.

cutthemdown
03-18-2013, 04:17 PM
wow that sounds crazy.

houghtam
03-18-2013, 04:17 PM
"Welp, get yer coats on kids, we gotta mosey on down to the Wal Mart and pick us up som more guns and ammo, then I gotta dig up that jar I money what got buried last month so's we can buy some more gold bars. Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne LaPierre said it so it must be true."

Why live with such abject fear and hatred? The global meltdown new world order or what the **** ever comes, even if you're armed to the teeth living in a compound, how long are you going to last? A few years? At what cost? Living every day cowering under the threat of a global meltdown? Listening to people who are proven to prey upon the fearful? Wasting money hoarding stuff?

I'm the one who should wake up?

Dude, I'm on freaking cloud nine right now and have been for the past year and a half. Considering if there's a global societal meltdown on the scale you guys are raging about, I don't plan on making it 6 weeks, I'd say I'm far and away in the black on this one.

Rohirrim
03-18-2013, 04:26 PM
Uhh Who's going to be driving the armored assault vehicles and firing the automatic weapons on the American people?

baja
03-18-2013, 04:42 PM
Uhh Who's going to be driving the armored assault vehicles and firing the automatic weapons on the American people?

http://www.infowars.com/newouwphotospg2.html


also they will create a nice little race war. They are not stupid they will get us to kill each other. Who are they you ask? That goes pretty far down the rabbit hole - It will be up to you to seek out the information, it's readily available on the net.

W*GS
03-18-2013, 04:45 PM
It will be up to you to seek out the information, it's readily available on the net.

And everything on the intertubes is reliable and factual, and there's no nutjob bull**** at all!

Want my advice? All you really have is a lot of information seeded in your mind by others that you have accepted as immutable truth. Think for yourself.

orinjkrush
03-18-2013, 04:54 PM
I thought it was these people:

http://azweird.com/img/arts/2010/Aug/31/670/reptilians.jpg

frickin hilarious

baja
03-18-2013, 04:54 PM
And everything on the intertubes is reliable and factual, and there's no nutjob bull**** at all!

Want my advice? All you really have is a lot of information seeded in your mind by others that you have accepted as immutable truth. Think for yourself.

We shall see W*GS, we shall see.

Personally I pray you are right and I am just a foolish alarmist.

Rohirrim
03-18-2013, 04:54 PM
http://www.infowars.com/newouwphotospg2.html


also they will create a nice little race war. They are not stupid they will get us to kill each other. Who are they you ask? That goes pretty far down the rabbit hole - It will be up to you to seek out the information, it's readily available on the net.

Ah! The Dutch! Well that makes more sense.

baja
03-18-2013, 04:57 PM
And everything on the intertubes is reliable and factual, and there's no nutjob bull**** at all!

Want my advice? All you really have is a lot of information seeded in your mind by others that you have accepted as immutable truth. Think for yourself.

Of course there is, that's why you use your gift of discernment. You're a smart guy use it!

baja
03-18-2013, 05:21 PM
Ah! The Dutch! Well that makes more sense.


Clearly these discussions are going nowhere. I only hope there are a few others that read this that will look into this information for themselves.

I like you Ro and respect your right to believe in what you wish but I think you are making a mistake. Time will tell........

houghtam
03-18-2013, 05:48 PM
Time will tell........

That's my point.

Time will always tell, because another "next big thing" is always just around the corner. You are the equivalent of the "The End Is Nigh" guy on the street corner. You've been there for centuries with the same tired message of fire, brimstone, societal collapse, the wonder of the gold standard, the danger of the new world order...then you temper you proselytizing with a "but I hope I'm wrong" tag, to pass yourself off as the prophet and savior of humanity.

It's all bull****.

I can only imagine what kind of hell this board would have been with you and Gaff on it in 1999.

baja
03-18-2013, 06:07 PM
That's my point.

Time will always tell, because another "next big thing" is always just around the corner. You are the equivalent of the "The End Is Nigh" guy on the street corner. You've been there for centuries with the same tired message of fire, brimstone, societal collapse, the wonder of the gold standard, the danger of the new world order...then you temper you proselytizing with a "but I hope I'm wrong" tag, to pass yourself off as the prophet and savior of humanity.

It's all bull****.

I can only imagine what kind of hell this board would have been with you and Gaff on it in 1999.

You may as well stop reading my posts or responding to them as this will be my last response to you. I really don't have time for you. Please continue to enjoy your life, that is what I plan to do. Each and every day. What you presume as my fear is in fact my desire to inform. After all our power to defeat this is really quite simple, It rests in our numbers seeing the game and resisting. United we have great power over those few that would enslave us. Be well Houghtam.

jhat01
03-19-2013, 08:12 AM
http://www.infowars.com/newouwphotospg2.html


also they will create a nice little race war. They are not stupid they will get us to kill each other. Who are they you ask? That goes pretty far down the rabbit hole - It will be up to you to seek out the information, it's readily available on the net.

Nice paranoia web site...No reason for Marines to train in urban warfare huh? Does Fallujah ring a bell? Hue City? Seoul in 1950? Last I checked, cities are pretty much everywhere. urban operations training is as important now as it ever was...get a grip dude.

Rohirrim
03-19-2013, 08:40 AM
Alex Jones is different than Glenn Beck because...

Rohirrim
03-19-2013, 10:47 AM
Well, that was a whole lot of hysteria over nothing. Looks like cooler heads will prevail, or like this guy pointed out:

Steve Keen, professor of Economics & Finance at the University of Western Sydney, told CNBC that Russia could retaliate against the perceived proxy attack on its citizens, and their money.
"If you try to target the Russians, and there's President Putin acting under the image of the 'strong man' of Russia, why would he not then decide to shut down gas supplies to Germany until that was righted?
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/19/17370616-cyprus-bailout-deal-looks-set-for-collapse-amid-fear-of-run-on-banks?lite

baja
03-19-2013, 10:02 PM
Alex Jones is different than Glenn Beck because...

.... he's not insane

Rohirrim
03-20-2013, 06:07 AM
.... he's not insane

Same shtick. Different emphasis.

baja
03-21-2013, 11:16 PM
Cyprus bank insolvency crisis quickly escalating; may set off EU bankageddon
Friday, March 22, 2013
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...)



(NaturalNews) As you may have suspected, there's far more to the Cyprus bank crisis story than meets the eye. It turns out the shutdown of Cypriot banks has caused a large-scale financial shutdown of the Russian government which uses Cyprus banks for most transactions.

On top of that, the EU central bank (ECB) has now issued an ultimatum that threatens to revoke all financial support and crash the Cypriot banks if they can't come up with 5.8 billion Euros by Monday. Reuters reports:

The European Central Bank, which has kept Cyprus's banks operating with a liquidity lifeline, said the government had until Monday to get a deal in place, or funds would be cut off - putting not just the Cypriot economy in jeopardy but billions of euros held on the island by foreigners, notably from Russia.

USA Today reports, "If it does not find a way by Monday, the European Central Bank said it will cut off emergency support to the banks, letting them collapse. That would throw the country into financial chaos and, ultimately, cause it to leave the eurozone, with unpredictable consequences for the region."

Until then, the banks remain closed, and everybody knows the minute they open, every account holder will immediately transfer their money out of the banks, causing a near-instant bank run and a collapse.

The worry across the eurozone now is that this imminent bank collapse will trigger account holders in Greece to start taking their money out of the bank, too. The Greek banking system is already in such sad shape that it only takes a very small percentage of account holders withdrawing their funds -- perhaps 5% or so -- to topple Greek banks. That's because the banks are roughly 95% leveraged with fractional reserve accounts and complex debt instruments.

Once bank runs begin in Greece, they will spread across the EU. Fear will kick in everywhere and depositors will run on the banks in Spain, Italy and even the UK. Germany is arguably in the safest position to defend against bank runs, but even its banks are unwisely leveraged beyond reasonable ratios.

We are about to witness massive wealth destruction

It's important to understand that fractional reserve banking wealth is a fictional construct that does not exist in reality. Thus, the wealth created by fractional reserve banking is nothing more than a mirage that can be destroyed literally overnight.

Importantly -- and here's the real point nobody is talking about -- Russia may be willing to let Cypriot banks collapse and lose a lot of money itself, knowing that the aftermath of a collapse may set off a chain reaction of bank collapses across the EU.

EU authorities seem to anticipate this possibility and they are already talking about dropping Cyprus from the EU as quickly as possible. As Yahoo News reports:

The official also referred to the need to resolve the issue of Cyprus's two biggest banks, both of which are close to collapse, and mentioned the possibility of Cyprus leaving the euro zone. In the event of an exit, the official said steps needed to be taken to "ring-fence" the rest of the euro zone from the impact and to ensure there was no contagion to Greece.

"Contagion" is the right word, because if this situation doesn't get resolved very, very quickly, we may be witnessing the start of the collapse of the EU -- an outcome that would very well serve the political interests of Russia. So don't expect Russia to try to resolve any of this. It may be waiting in the wings and actually hoping to help set off a kind of "bankageddon" that, once begun, will be impossible to stop.


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039588_Cyprus_banking_crisis_collapse.html#ixzz2OF 6eKmjA

Rohirrim
03-22-2013, 06:53 AM
What is the lure of apocalyptica? Why the fascination with global destruction?

baja
03-22-2013, 08:06 AM
What is the lure of apocalyptica? Why the fascination with global destruction?

Greed drives the bus destruction is just a consequence


kinda like how a virus works. Grows until it destroys it's host and thus itself.

houghtam
03-22-2013, 08:48 AM
Greed drives the bus destruction is just a consequence


kinda like how a virus works. Grows until it destroys it's host and thus itself.

That's not what he's asking.

Here's a more direct way.

Why are people like you, Gaff, PCR, Alex Jones, and the rest so fascinated with the prospect of a global apocalypse?

Or is this just another example of "Oh I'm not rooting for it, I'm just a benevolent prophet trying to save you from yourselves?"

baja
03-22-2013, 09:37 AM
That's not what he's asking.

Here's a more direct way.

Why are people like you, Gaff, PCR, Alex Jones, and the rest so fascinated with the prospect of a global apocalypse?

Or is this just another example of "Oh I'm not rooting for it, I'm just a benevolent prophet trying to save you from yourselves?"

OK I'll answer this one/

First I know what he was getting at.

Second I am not doing anything different than you or anyone else posting. I am trying to "wake you up" to my reality. Who here is not trying to do that very thing.

Finally I admit my motive is somewhat selfish. If we the people do not wake up to the ever tightening grip of those that would control all the rest of us then they will accomplish their goal and the result will be horrid for the rest of us.

I know I will survive just fine in the mountains of Baja but what about the generations to come. There really is a war going on and evil is winning because good is asleep.

Rohirrim
03-22-2013, 12:47 PM
OK I'll answer this one/

First I know what he was getting at.

Second I am not doing anything different than you or anyone else posting. I am trying to "wake you up" to my reality. Who here is not trying to do that very thing.

Finally I admit my motive is somewhat selfish. If we the people do not wake up to the ever tightening grip of those that would control all the rest of us then they will accomplish their goal and the result will be horrid for the rest of us.

I know I will survive just fine in the mountains of Baja but what about the generations to come. There really is a war going on and evil is winning because good is asleep.

One thing never changes. Change. :puff:

Meck77
03-22-2013, 03:14 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/03/pf/states_currencies/index.htm

AZ voting on gold/silver as legal currency soon.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-03-18/arizona-lawmakers-back-gold-silver-as-currency

baja
03-22-2013, 03:17 PM
http://bitcoin.org/en/

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bitcoin

mhgaffney
03-22-2013, 05:01 PM
If you missed Paul Craig Robert's recent interview...

here it is again. Not to be missed. This is the best summary I have heard in awhile.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2013/3/16_Dr._Paul_Craig_Roberts.html

baja
03-22-2013, 05:19 PM
Ya I saw it today;

Alex Jones, " So doctor how do you fix the dollar problem? "

Dr. Craig, " You can't, it's too late now it's just a question of when it collapses and pushes us into an inflationary depression"

Jones. "That is the worse case scenario, right?"

Dr. Craig, "Yes"

mhgaffney
03-22-2013, 05:22 PM
No -- this is the interview on Kingworldnews -- but along the same lines.

In the Kingworld show Roberts does a great job explaining why the fed is keeping the price of gold & silver down.

Today silver is 28+ -- hard to believe it's so low. If I had extra cash I would buy silver while it's this low.

baja
03-22-2013, 05:26 PM
Ya figured that out listening now....

baja
03-22-2013, 05:27 PM
You should watch the alex jones radio show today. It's probably on you tube somewhere by now.

mhgaffney
03-22-2013, 06:42 PM
Here is today's interview -- Alex Jones with Paul Craig Roberts

fast forward to 1:07

The shyte is about to hit the fan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt687k40UGc

W*GS
03-22-2013, 06:47 PM
Not surprised that baja and gaffe are Jones' bukkake boys...

houghtam
03-22-2013, 07:15 PM
Here is today's interview -- Alex Jones with Paul Craig Roberts

fast forward to 1:07

The shyte is about to hit the fan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt687k40UGc

I'm on my phone and can't watch the video. Can you define "about to" in terms of days/weeks/months so I can come back here at the end of said period of time and get an answer why the **** didn't actually hit the fan? Just a ballpark figure would be fine so I can just bring it up every few days when the deadline hits.

baja
03-22-2013, 07:24 PM
I'm on my phone and can't watch the video. Can you define "about to" in terms of days/weeks/months so I can come back here at the end of said period of time and get an answer why the **** didn't actually hit the fan? Just a ballpark figure would be fine so I can just bring it up every few days when the deadline hits.

Next Tuesday @ 11:47 AM CDT

W*GS
03-22-2013, 07:28 PM
I'm on my phone and can't watch the video. Can you define "about to" in terms of days/weeks/months so I can come back here at the end of said period of time and get an answer why the **** didn't actually hit the fan? Just a ballpark figure would be fine so I can just bring it up every few days when the deadline hits.

gaffe, baja, and the other conspiracist wankers (on the right and left) can never name a time...

It's always "soon".

They're full of shyte, of course.

houghtam
03-22-2013, 07:43 PM
Next Tuesday @ 11:47 AM CDT

Next Tuesday, like, the next Tuesday there is?

Or next Tuesday, like, not this Tuesday, but the next one?

Gotta make sure I'm there for this.

gyldenlove
03-22-2013, 07:44 PM
Cyprus bank insolvency crisis quickly escalating; may set off EU bankageddon
Friday, March 22, 2013
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...)



(NaturalNews) As you may have suspected, there's far more to the Cyprus bank crisis story than meets the eye. It turns out the shutdown of Cypriot banks has caused a large-scale financial shutdown of the Russian government which uses Cyprus banks for most transactions.

On top of that, the EU central bank (ECB) has now issued an ultimatum that threatens to revoke all financial support and crash the Cypriot banks if they can't come up with 5.8 billion Euros by Monday. Reuters reports:

The European Central Bank, which has kept Cyprus's banks operating with a liquidity lifeline, said the government had until Monday to get a deal in place, or funds would be cut off - putting not just the Cypriot economy in jeopardy but billions of euros held on the island by foreigners, notably from Russia.

USA Today reports, "If it does not find a way by Monday, the European Central Bank said it will cut off emergency support to the banks, letting them collapse. That would throw the country into financial chaos and, ultimately, cause it to leave the eurozone, with unpredictable consequences for the region."

Until then, the banks remain closed, and everybody knows the minute they open, every account holder will immediately transfer their money out of the banks, causing a near-instant bank run and a collapse.

The worry across the eurozone now is that this imminent bank collapse will trigger account holders in Greece to start taking their money out of the bank, too. The Greek banking system is already in such sad shape that it only takes a very small percentage of account holders withdrawing their funds -- perhaps 5% or so -- to topple Greek banks. That's because the banks are roughly 95% leveraged with fractional reserve accounts and complex debt instruments.

Once bank runs begin in Greece, they will spread across the EU. Fear will kick in everywhere and depositors will run on the banks in Spain, Italy and even the UK. Germany is arguably in the safest position to defend against bank runs, but even its banks are unwisely leveraged beyond reasonable ratios.

We are about to witness massive wealth destruction

It's important to understand that fractional reserve banking wealth is a fictional construct that does not exist in reality. Thus, the wealth created by fractional reserve banking is nothing more than a mirage that can be destroyed literally overnight.

Importantly -- and here's the real point nobody is talking about -- Russia may be willing to let Cypriot banks collapse and lose a lot of money itself, knowing that the aftermath of a collapse may set off a chain reaction of bank collapses across the EU.

EU authorities seem to anticipate this possibility and they are already talking about dropping Cyprus from the EU as quickly as possible. As Yahoo News reports:

The official also referred to the need to resolve the issue of Cyprus's two biggest banks, both of which are close to collapse, and mentioned the possibility of Cyprus leaving the euro zone. In the event of an exit, the official said steps needed to be taken to "ring-fence" the rest of the euro zone from the impact and to ensure there was no contagion to Greece.

"Contagion" is the right word, because if this situation doesn't get resolved very, very quickly, we may be witnessing the start of the collapse of the EU -- an outcome that would very well serve the political interests of Russia. So don't expect Russia to try to resolve any of this. It may be waiting in the wings and actually hoping to help set off a kind of "bankageddon" that, once begun, will be impossible to stop.


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039588_Cyprus_banking_crisis_collapse.html#ixzz2OF 6eKmjA

This is some pretty strong bull**** as bull**** goes, it is not quite young earth creationism but certainly up there with birthers and the vaccine causes autism crowd.

The banks in Cyprus won't open for withdrawals until they have a liquidity lifeline in place, if they must they will limit withdrawals and only allow transfers to other Cypriot banks. As for bankageddon that is not only a horrible pun but also pure fiction. The Cypriot banks are largely involved with retired expats from other EU countries, Russians who are involved especially with international shipping and trade and Greek interests - it is the large investment in Greek bonds that knocked the wind out of the sails.

None of the groups who are heavily involved with Cypriot banking are major players in any European banking sector, so losses from banks going belly up in Cyprus would not domino to other countries - this is also why the ECB and IMF required Cyprus to self-fund part of the emergency liquidity fund unlike any other European economy. If Ireland or Spain or Greece had failed, it would have had a potential domino effect, but Cyprus is so small and isolated financially that a failure would not cause more than small ripples throughout European banking.

baja
03-22-2013, 07:48 PM
Next Tuesday, like, the next Tuesday there is?

Or next Tuesday, like, not this Tuesday, but the next one?

Gotta make sure I'm there for this.

as in Mañana

baja
03-22-2013, 07:58 PM
This is some pretty strong bull**** as bull**** goes, it is not quite young earth creationism but certainly up there with birthers and the vaccine causes autism crowd.

The banks in Cyprus won't open for withdrawals until they have a liquidity lifeline in place, if they must they will limit withdrawals and only allow transfers to other Cypriot banks. As for bankageddon that is not only a horrible pun but also pure fiction. The Cypriot banks are largely involved with retired expats from other EU countries, Russians who are involved especially with international shipping and trade and Greek interests - it is the large investment in Greek bonds that knocked the wind out of the sails.

None of the groups who are heavily involved with Cypriot banking are major players in any European banking sector, so losses from banks going belly up in Cyprus would not domino to other countries - this is also why the ECB and IMF required Cyprus to self-fund part of the emergency liquidity fund unlike any other European economy. If Ireland or Spain or Greece had failed, it would have had a potential domino effect, but Cyprus is so small and isolated financially that a failure would not cause more than small ripples throughout European banking.

No offense but I value this guy's opinion infinitely more than yours when it comes to financial matters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts

houghtam
03-22-2013, 08:20 PM
No offense but I value this guy's opinion infinitely more than yours when it comes to financial matters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts

Because I know when I'm looking for economic insight, I'm going to trust the Reaganomics guy.

baja
03-22-2013, 08:28 PM
In this instance he is speaking to deregulation and what it lead to. People do learn from mistakes you know. But don't bother to watch the video because you already "know'

baja
03-22-2013, 08:29 PM
You sound a lot like the banned Garcia Bronco.

houghtam
03-22-2013, 09:46 PM
In this instance he is speaking to deregulation and what it lead to. People do learn from mistakes you know. But don't bother to watch the video because you already "know'

In this instance, gyldenlove is making a rather compelling argument about not only what contributed to the crisis, but the scope of the crisis as well. Some people on this board do know what they're talking about you know. But don't bother to research his claims because you already "know".

:thanku: You're too kind, OMane, you're too kind.

baja
03-22-2013, 10:12 PM
Well lets see what happens with the Cypriot banking system on Monday shall we..

Meck77
03-22-2013, 10:20 PM
Interesting. Hadn't read about this anywhere. CAD and AUD to be added as reserve currencies. Question is will the DXY stay on. If not. Get your hand tools ready baja.

http://rt.com/business/imf-reserve-currencies-909/

baja
03-22-2013, 10:38 PM
It's not a question of if but when the world shiit cans the fiat system due to it's inevitable collapse ( largest ponzi scheme ever and second place isn't even close) The logical replacement is asset based currency but the transition will be apocalyptic in nature. The bitcoin I linked for you is a very promising solution. Did you get a chance to look into it?

baja
03-22-2013, 10:42 PM
Interesting. Hadn't read about this anywhere. CAD and AUD to be added as reserve currencies. Question is will the DXY stay on. If not. Get your hand tools ready baja.

http://rt.com/business/imf-reserve-currencies-909/

Oh by the way you need not worry about any of this because hougtam has assured us all is well because Glydenlove said so in a fifty word post and he is smart in hougham's estimation..

houghtam
03-22-2013, 10:43 PM
Come on, admit it guys. The only reason anyone is talking about this is because everyone loves saying and typing the word Cypriot.

Cypriot.

DenverBrit
03-23-2013, 08:37 AM
Well lets see what happens with the Cypriot banking system on Monday shall we..

I think you'll be disappointed.

The collapse of the dollar and pound has been predicted for decades, and now we have the Euro to add to the gloom and doom crowd.

Time to replenish the bunker's canned goods, the last batch are way past their expiration dates.....again. :peace:

baja
03-23-2013, 09:19 AM
I think you'll be disappointed.

The collapse of the dollar and pound has been predicted for decades, and now we have the Euro to add to the gloom and doom crowd.

Time to replenish the bunker's canned goods, the last batch are way past their expiration dates.....again. :peace:

Why would think I would be disappointed if a very bad thing did not happen?

If I wanted this to happen I would not subject myself to ridicule by those of you that are smugly asleep if I wanted this to happen. No I would just sit back in my comfortable well supplied bunker and watch you all eat each other.


You know Mock and I used to talk on the phone about these eventful times (That's right Mock saw things much as I do) He had a gallows humor about zombies that would make me laugh. I miss that guy.

I understand pointing these tribulations out to you pisses many of you off but it doesn't change the facts.

"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand." . Ezekiel 33:6

houghtam
03-23-2013, 09:30 AM
Why would think I would be disappointed if a very bad thing did not happen?

If I wanted this to happen I would not subject myself to ridicule by those of you that are smugly asleep if I wanted this to happen. No I would just sit back in my comfortable well supplied bunker and watch you all eat each other.


You know Mock and I used to talk on the phone about these eventful times (That's right Mock saw things much as I do) He had a gallows humor about zombies that would make me laugh. I miss that guy.

I understand pointing these tribulations out to you pisses many of you off but it doesn't change the facts.

"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand." . Ezekiel 33:6

Facts and suppositions are two different things. If the watchmen hears a commotion outside the gates, assumes its an attack, and raises the alarm, he does his people a disservice by giving out the wrong information based on an incorrect assumption. If he does this over a long period of time, people begin to stop believing his nonsense.

DenverBrit
03-23-2013, 09:52 AM
Why would think I would be disappointed if a very bad thing did not happen?

If I wanted this to happen I would not subject myself to ridicule by those of you that are smugly asleep if I wanted this to happen. No I would just sit back in my comfortable well supplied bunker and watch you all eat each other.


You know Mock and I used to talk on the phone about these eventful times (That's right Mock saw things much as I do) He had a gallows humor about zombies that would make me laugh. I miss that guy.

I understand pointing these tribulations out to you pisses many of you off but it doesn't change the facts.

"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand." . Ezekiel 33:6

As I mentioned, these dire predictions have been going on for decades, so nothing new to see here.

Just more of the same...... 'buy seeds, stock up on ammo, gold and canned goods.' A strange and sad way to live a life.

They amuse me, not 'piss me off.' :~ohyah!:

baja
03-23-2013, 09:58 AM
Facts and suppositions are two different things. If the watchmen hears a commotion outside the gates, assumes its an attack, and raises the alarm, he does his people a disservice by giving out the wrong information based on an incorrect assumption. If he does this over a long period of time, people begin to stop believing his nonsense.

Believe me I understand your position and your reactions.

I believe many of you are uninformed or in denial. It is a horrendous scenario to realize but the signs are all there that we have reached a time crisis with the fiat monetary system and it has been known from it's inception it was destined to collapse one day.

Goggle Fiat money / videos, there are dozens to choose from.

baja
03-23-2013, 10:02 AM
As I mentioned, these dire predictions have been going on for decades, so nothing new to see here.

Just more of the same...... 'buy seeds, stock up on ammo, gold and canned goods.' A strange and sad way to live a life.

They amuse me, not 'piss me off.' :~ohyah!:

As I have stated many times I do not live in fear, on the contrary this realization causes me to enjoy and treasure each and every day because I know there is a limited amount of them until things get very rocky.

houghtam
03-23-2013, 10:09 AM
Believe me I understand your position and your reactions.

I believe many of you are uninformed or in denial. It is a horrendous scenario to realize but the signs are all there that we have reached a time crisis with the fiat monetary system and it has been known from it's inception it was destined to collapse one day.

Goggle Fiat money / videos, there are dozens to choose from.

If you can give me concrete evidence of even ONE time where you've made bold predictions such as these and they actually came true, I will sell all my worldly belongings and move to the countryside as well.

You and Gaff have cried wolf plenty over the years.

baja
03-23-2013, 10:18 AM
I said Iraq did not have WMD - I was right

I said gold would be a great investment . I was right

i predicted the housing (sub prime) bubble.

I predicted the banking crisis (derivatives)

I am sure there are more but i gotta go enjoy the day.....

Meck77
03-23-2013, 10:20 AM
As I mentioned, these dire predictions have been going on for decades, so nothing new to see here.

Just more of the same...... 'buy seeds, stock up on ammo, gold and canned goods.' A strange and sad way to live a life.

They amuse me, not 'piss me off.' :~ohyah!:

I find it interesting that preparing one's family is considered "strange" or "sad".

For my family farming has been a way of life for many generations. Extra food, ammo etc is just a part of life. They survived the forced starvation in Ukraine, Hitler's blitzkrig ripped through my families village, later the russians ripped through. Most of them survived all of it by being prepared.

I'm not saying Americans need to prepare for a ground invasion or the zombies but most people don't even have so much as a tomato plant in their yard or even know how to sweat a copper pipe if they need to fix their own plumbing. Hell I had friends on Facebook who were without any clean water for their families when the east coast flood happened. There was a weeks worth of warnings yet they didn't even have an extra 5 gallons of water? stupid!

As far as gold and Ammo Denver Brit. Are you really happy you did not buy $300 gold or maybe even $900 gold?

Is it really crazy to have a big stack of Ammo considering it's double and even tripled in price?

Now I don't agree with baja's lizzard people theory but all indications are there is a currency crisis on the horizon. You can either hedge yourself against it or not. Don't agree with Baja on the stability of Mexico either. It was a tough state of affairs down there. A much more noticeable "police state". Had to drive through numerous check points and was basically interrogated several times. It was complete BS!

Perhaps you have nothing to lose. If you don't I can understand why you wouldn't be paying attention.

DenverBrit
03-23-2013, 11:25 AM
I find it interesting that preparing one's family is considered "strange" or "sad".

For my family farming has been a way of life for many generations. Extra food, ammo etc is just a part of life. They survived the forced starvation in Ukraine, Hitler's blitzkrig ripped through my families village, later the russians ripped through. Most of them survived all of it by being prepared.

I'm not saying Americans need to prepare for a ground invasion or the zombies but most people don't even have so much as a tomato plant in their yard or even know how to sweat a copper pipe if they need to fix their own plumbing. Hell I had friends on Facebook who were without any clean water for their families when the east coast flood happened. There was a weeks worth of warnings yet they didn't even have an extra 5 gallons of water? stupid!

As far as gold and Ammo Denver Brit. Are you really happy you did not buy $300 gold or maybe even $900 gold?

Is it really crazy to have a big stack of Ammo considering it's double and even tripled in price?

Now I don't agree with baja's lizzard people theory but all indications are there is a currency crisis on the horizon. You can either hedge yourself against it or not. Don't agree with Baja on the stability of Mexico either. It was a tough state of affairs down there. A much more noticeable "police state". Had to drive through numerous check points and was basically interrogated several times. It was complete BS!

Perhaps you have nothing to lose. If you don't I can understand why you wouldn't be paying attention.

That would depend on why one prepares. Natural disasters? Yes! Tribulations? Nah.

The currency crisis? Again, been hearing that for decades and choose not to build a life around it.

Gold? Made a bundle buying it in the late 70's and have owned gold stocks and done well. I don't hoard it for barter purposes in anticipation of Armageddon.

I have plenty to lose, and plenty to gain. I choose to ignore dire predictions and invest in dividend yielding stocks. I've done just fine during the meltdown and since. Paying off debt makes more sense to me than buying ammo or filling my basement with canned goods.

It's all about outlook. I don't live in fear of a calamity that would create a post apocalyptic world. IMO, that would be a sad way to live.

mhgaffney
03-23-2013, 11:38 AM
Because I know when I'm looking for economic insight, I'm going to trust the Reaganomics guy.

PCR has come a long way, baby, since those days.

mhgaffney
03-23-2013, 11:41 AM
I find it interesting that preparing one's family is considered "strange" or "sad".

For my family farming has been a way of life for many generations. Extra food, ammo etc is just a part of life. They survived the forced starvation in Ukraine, Hitler's blitzkrig ripped through my families village, later the russians ripped through. Most of them survived all of it by being prepared.

I'm not saying Americans need to prepare for a ground invasion or the zombies but most people don't even have so much as a tomato plant in their yard or even know how to sweat a copper pipe if they need to fix their own plumbing. Hell I had friends on Facebook who were without any clean water for their families when the east coast flood happened. There was a weeks worth of warnings yet they didn't even have an extra 5 gallons of water? stupid!

As far as gold and Ammo Denver Brit. Are you really happy you did not buy $300 gold or maybe even $900 gold?

Is it really crazy to have a big stack of Ammo considering it's double and even tripled in price?

Now I don't agree with baja's lizzard people theory but all indications are there is a currency crisis on the horizon. You can either hedge yourself against it or not. Don't agree with Baja on the stability of Mexico either. It was a tough state of affairs down there. A much more noticeable "police state". Had to drive through numerous check points and was basically interrogated several times. It was complete BS!

Perhaps you have nothing to lose. If you don't I can understand why you wouldn't be paying attention.

Good post.

I learned about getting ready way back when I was a boy scout. Our motto was "be prepared"

The clowns on this board will be sucking air when the shyte hits the fan. No one knows when -- but the writing is on the wall.

MHG

orinjkrush
03-23-2013, 11:53 AM
As I mentioned, these dire predictions have been going on for decades, so nothing new to see here.

Just more of the same...... 'buy seeds, stock up on ammo, gold and canned goods.' A strange and sad way to live a life.

They amuse me, not 'piss me off.' :~ohyah!:

You're amused at others "sad way of life"? Well, you can always say "I told you so." That should be icing on the cake.

IMHO People should prepare for the future in whatever way suits their needs. As long as they don't hurt anyone, it's all good.

baja
03-23-2013, 02:11 PM
I find it interesting that preparing one's family is considered "strange" or "sad".

For my family farming has been a way of life for many generations. Extra food, ammo etc is just a part of life. They survived the forced starvation in Ukraine, Hitler's blitzkrig ripped through my families village, later the russians ripped through. Most of them survived all of it by being prepared.

I'm not saying Americans need to prepare for a ground invasion or the zombies but most people don't even have so much as a tomato plant in their yard or even know how to sweat a copper pipe if they need to fix their own plumbing. Hell I had friends on Facebook who were without any clean water for their families when the east coast flood happened. There was a weeks worth of warnings yet they didn't even have an extra 5 gallons of water? stupid!

As far as gold and Ammo Denver Brit. Are you really happy you did not buy $300 gold or maybe even $900 gold?

Is it really crazy to have a big stack of Ammo considering it's double and even tripled in price?

Now I don't agree with baja's lizzard people theory but all indications are there is a currency crisis on the horizon. You can either hedge yourself against it or not. Don't agree with Baja on the stability of Mexico either. It was a tough state of affairs down there. A much more noticeable "police state". Had to drive through numerous check points and was basically interrogated several times. It was complete BS!

Perhaps you have nothing to lose. If you don't I can understand why you wouldn't be paying attention.

The lizard people was made in jest and as so often is was taken way out of context for proposes of ridicule. My take on that is the possibility of other dimensional interference which although far fetched of most of us still is possible. In Spiritual terms a struggle between good and evil

As for Mexico I agree mainland Mexico is dangerous and I would not visit many places there but the Baja is basically an island with a road to San Diego. My place in the mountains is very secure. I am among about a dozen other families that have been there for generations whom I know and trust. This trust has been built over several years of knowing them and they me. The world could collapse and unless they got a memo they would not know about it.

My goal in posting what I post in mostly to be helpful to you guys reading my posts and links. If I thought I could better serve making a difference by returning to the US I would be there tomorrow. My desire is to do my part in defeating this enemy of evil that I see tightening the noose of control ever tighter with each passing day. And yes these are all things I pray about and ask guidance for. Finally as I have said many times I will gladly play the fool if that is what it means for me to be wrong about my concerns.

DenverBrit
03-23-2013, 02:47 PM
You're amused at others "sad way of life"? Well, you can always say "I told you so." That should be icing on the cake.

IMHO People should prepare for the future in whatever way suits their needs. As long as they don't hurt anyone, it's all good.

I'm amused by the doomsayer predictions.

It's living with that attitude I find sad.

As for 'I told you so,' there's no need, I've been hearing it long enough and we're still here.

DenverBrit
03-23-2013, 02:49 PM
Good post.

I learned about getting ready way back when I was a boy scout. Our motto was "be prepared"

The clowns on this board will be sucking air when the shyte hits the fan. No one knows when -- but the writing is on the wall.

MHG

Honestly, how many decades have you been saying that??

houghtam
03-23-2013, 04:41 PM
I'm amused by the doomsayer predictions.

It's living with that attitude I find sad.

As for 'I told you so,' there's no need, I've been hearing it long enough and we're still here.

^

If we're wrong, we'll die in the first wave and won't be able to say I told you so, so I'm not sure where he is getting that this could possibly be our motivation.

I'm personally at a loss as to why alarmism isn't considered a bad thing at all times, and approached with the utmost skepticism, as it is usual based on shadowy, nebulous "truths" and "wait-and-sees" rather than hard evidence.

mhgaffney
03-23-2013, 04:51 PM
Honestly, how many decades have you been saying that??

Honestly.

I've been warning about the dangers of nuclear war in the Mideast ever since I published my book about Israel's nukes in 1989.

Americans have not listened. The public has been dumbed down too far to know what is going on -- or care.

The dangers of WW III have increased. At that time the region was much more stable than at present. Look at the map. We now have numerous failed states in the region, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, and now Syria.

This has served only Israel.

On the economic front -- I have never predicted or warned of impending doom -- until very recently.

You ignore/ridicule Paul Craig Roberts at your own peril.

MHG

W*GS
03-23-2013, 05:05 PM
Hmmm...

baja
03-23-2013, 05:26 PM
doing some soul searching Wags?

baja
03-23-2013, 05:42 PM
You don't even have to read some dry article, all you have to do is listen;


http://youtu.be/qiCcpyKiC_4

baja
03-23-2013, 05:45 PM
Heres another;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv-TfBXEOAc

baja
03-23-2013, 06:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw


Don't watch this one if you want remain blissfully ignorant....

mhgaffney
03-23-2013, 07:19 PM
Didn't you know?

W*gs hates Paul Craig Roberts because Roberts talks truth about Palestine. This drives W*gs insane.

He can't stand it when someone calls Israel for its violence, its crimes, its brutal persecution of the native people of Palestine.

For this reason he is driven to blindly ridicule PCR on the economics front.

MHG

baja
03-23-2013, 07:44 PM
Mark google or better yet use start page and type in Rothschild Zionism

DenverBrit
03-24-2013, 10:32 AM
^

If we're wrong, we'll die in the first wave and won't be able to say I told you so, so I'm not sure where he is getting that this could possibly be our motivation.

I'm personally at a loss as to why alarmism isn't considered a bad thing at all times, and approached with the utmost skepticism, as it is usual based on shadowy, nebulous "truths" and "wait-and-sees" rather than hard evidence.

Fear and paranoia have become embedded in our society. School kids taught to hide under a desk during a nuclear attack was the image of the 50's.

From the 60's, it has been the collapse of the financial system and it's become a growth industry ever since.

Meck77
03-24-2013, 01:04 PM
“In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation,” he concluded. “There is no safe store of value” for the dollar. Alan Greenspan
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2001/04/9016/#dxGPTY0ZW9oJXVU0.99

baja
03-24-2013, 01:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ

Meck77
03-24-2013, 08:28 PM
Deal done. Money will be stolen from the people.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cyprus-gets-aid-deal-but-laiki-bank-to-close-eu-2013-03-24

baja
03-24-2013, 09:01 PM
And the elitist global banking cartel eugenists run up another trial ballon to see if the sheepal accept yet another attack on their freedom. "Oh it's just the rich they can afford it" they will say. What they fail to see is they are next. In the end nobody will escape the tyranny unless you wake the £uck up.

Obushma
03-25-2013, 11:15 AM
The Rothschilds just robbed anyone with over 100k in Cyprus banks for 40% of their total deposits.

NSFW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lFjSGC5LsI&feature=youtu.be

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1lFjSGC5LsI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

orinjkrush
03-25-2013, 12:50 PM
Hmmm...



http://www.cracked.com/article_15974_7-insane-conspiracies-that-actually-happened.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JaF2AuqUbaA/TI-zef_erfI/AAAAAAAAA64/EzBNXNk4_TI/s1600/lincoln-conspirators.jpg

houghtam
03-25-2013, 02:31 PM
Man, the Dow is down over 60 points today. What a mess.

Rohirrim
03-25-2013, 02:41 PM
Just out of curiosity, since I'm not a banker, but if the banks collapsed and the Cyprus government collapsed, wouldn't the depositors lose all of their savings?

W*GS
03-25-2013, 02:50 PM
Didn't you know?

W*gs hates Paul Craig Roberts because Roberts talks truth about Palestine. This drives W*gs insane.

He can't stand it when someone calls Israel for its violence, its crimes, its brutal persecution of the native people of Palestine.

For this reason he is driven to blindly ridicule PCR on the economics front.

Just about anyone you lovingly reference is a nutjob.

baja
03-25-2013, 03:01 PM
Banks In Europe May Now Seize Deposits To Cover Their Gambling Losses

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/banks-europe-may-now-seize-deposits-cover-gambling-134036516.html

elsid13
03-25-2013, 03:23 PM
Just out of curiosity, since I'm not a banker, but if the banks collapsed and the Cyprus government collapsed, wouldn't the depositors lose all of their savings?

The only similar case study is Argentine banking crisis in 1999 to 2001. Their saving wouldn't just disappear but it's buying power for their currency would be worthless causing massive economic turmoil.

mhgaffney
03-25-2013, 04:15 PM
Why gold is a great bargain today at 1605/ounce

Check out the chart below which shows the steady rise in the price of gold from 2001 to 2010 -- at which point the fed began manipulating the price to keep it from rising further.

Without that artificial cap - - you can extrapolate the slope to what gold would in all likelihood be at today -- somewhere conservatively above 2200/ounce.

The Fed's shorting of gold down to boost confidence in the dollar shows their desperation. Otherwise -- why thwart a bull market?

MHG

baja
03-25-2013, 04:19 PM
Why gold is a great bargain today at 1605/ounce

Check out the chart below which shows the steady rise in the price of gold from 2001 to 2010 -- at which point the fed began manipulating the price to keep it from rising further.

Without that artificial cap - - you can extrapolate the slope to what gold would in all likelihood be at today -- somewhere conservatively above 2200/ounce.

The Fed's shorting of gold down to boost confidence in the dollar shows their desperation. Otherwise -- why thwart a bull market?

MHG

That is exactly what is happening yet no one is questioning it.

There is only one reason the FED is shorting gold, it is as you say to prop up the failing dollar.

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 05:43 PM
Why gold is a great bargain today at 1605/ounce

Check out the chart below which shows the steady rise in the price of gold from 2001 to 2010 -- at which point the fed began manipulating the price to keep it from rising further.

Without that artificial cap - - you can extrapolate the slope to what gold would in all likelihood be at today -- somewhere conservatively above 2200/ounce.

The Fed's shorting of gold down to boost confidence in the dollar shows their desperation. Otherwise -- why thwart a bull market?

MHG

Ok, Gaffney, how about a link to this story?

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 05:51 PM
Just out of curiosity, since I'm not a banker, but if the banks collapsed and the Cyprus government collapsed, wouldn't the depositors lose all of their savings?

You're hitting on the reality of this bailout. That is an 'offshore bank' and as anyone offshore understands, there is no insurance if a bank collapses.

This notion that depositors are being 'taxed' is absurd. If that were a US bank, no accounts above the FDIC insured amount would be covered and those depositors would likely lose all.

Because Cyprus is in the EuroZone, they are getting a bailout, and a damn generous one for the depositors. This might be the first time an offshore bank has been bailed out, the Russians should be on their knees gratefully accepting the 60% they will walk away with.

baja
03-25-2013, 05:58 PM
Maybe I'm old school but I put my money in a bank for only one reason safe keeping, if they were to take 40% to pay off their bad investments I would not consider that safe keeping

Hey it's not like I'm investing with them and would see a return on my money

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 06:15 PM
Maybe I'm old school but I put my money in a bank for only one reason safe keeping, if they were to take 40% to pay off their bad investments I would not consider that safe keeping

Hey it's not like I'm investing with them and would see a return on my money

If you put your money in a European bank, your deposits are insured to 100k Euros (US, $250k).

If you put it in an 'offshore bank' looking for high returns (Cyprus) you have no insurance.....excepting that because Cyprus is in the EuroZone, they were able to get a bailout and bank deposits were insured to 100k.

If that were a Cayman or Bahamian bank, depositors would lose all.

mhgaffney
03-25-2013, 06:17 PM
Ok, Gaffney, how about a link to this story?

Hahahaha!

That's my analysis.

(The numbers do not lie.)

W*GS
03-25-2013, 06:39 PM
That's my analysis.

AKA

http://cdn.verysmartbrothas.com/images/Turd.png

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 06:59 PM
Hahahaha!

That's my analysis.

(The numbers do not lie.)

Both you AND your numbers lie.

mhgaffney
03-25-2013, 07:18 PM
Both you AND your numbers lie.

hahahaha...

The numbers can be confirmed by anyone with one Google search.

You really are a fool.

MHG

baja
03-25-2013, 07:31 PM
If you put your money in a European bank, your deposits are insured to 100k Euros (US, $250k).

If you put it in an 'offshore bank' looking for high returns (Cyprus) you have no insurance.....excepting that because Cyprus is in the EuroZone, they were able to get a bailout and bank deposits were insured to 100k.

If that were a Cayman or Bahamian bank, depositors would lose all.

What you fail to address is why the banks are in trouble in the first place. They are doing nothing short of gambling in the derivative market which would be illegal if the banksters had not strong armed governments to remove controls such the Glass Steagall Act.

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 08:20 PM
What you fail to address is why the banks are in trouble in the first place. They are doing nothing short of gambling in the derivative market which would be illegal if the banksters had not strong armed governments to remove controls such the Glass Steagall Act.

Offshore banking has ALWAYS been risky.

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 08:22 PM
hahahaha...

The numbers can be confirmed by anyone with one Google search.

You really are a fool.

MHG

You lie through your teeth, and admit it....."the fed is shorting gold".... and I'm the fool??

Get a grip.

baja
03-25-2013, 08:48 PM
Offshore banking has ALWAYS been risky.

There are levels of risk as you know. The deregulation that has take place since the Clinton years has created an opportunity for catastrophic collapse. We are dealing in insanity with these derivatives. The value of the derivatives market is purportedly a hundred times that of all the wealth in the world, that's insanity. Look at Iceland they refused to accept the debt these banks were attempting to heap on them. They just said no and what happened, they are now the fastest growing economy in the world. This debt is not the debt of the Cypriot account holders. They are being robbed to pay a debt that is not theirs.

What you are seeing is a broken global fiat money system that is frantically being patched and propped up. They are just buying time on someone else's dime.

DenverBrit
03-25-2013, 10:03 PM
There are levels of risk as you know. The deregulation that has take place since the Clinton years has created an opportunity for catastrophic collapse. We are dealing in insanity with these derivatives. The value of the derivatives market is purportedly a hundred times that of all the wealth in the world, that's insanity. Look at Iceland they refused to accept the debt these banks were attempting to heap on them. They just said no and what happened, they are now the fastest growing economy in the world. This debt is not the debt of the Cypriot account holders. They are being robbed to pay a debt that is not theirs.

What you are seeing is a broken global fiat money system that is frantically being patched and propped up. They are just buying time on someone else's dime.

One of the main Cypriot bank problems are massive Greek bond holdings.

Again, this is offshore banking, always high risk and returns, the depositors knew that and understood if the bank goes, so does their cash.

Besides, much of the deposits are suspected Russian mob money being laundered.

baja
03-25-2013, 10:49 PM
One of the main Cypriot bank problems are massive Greek bond holdings.

Again, this is offshore banking, always high risk and returns, the depositors knew that and understood if the bank goes, so does their cash.

Besides, much of the deposits are suspected Russian mob money being laundered.

I suspect this debt is much more complex than Greek bonds and Russian laundered money. Not saying that is not one level of it but my reading tells me it is much more complex than that. Truth is neither one of us could possibly know the full details but I will be willing to bet it's not as simple as you believe. Guess I just agree to disagree on this one. If you have some time you might watch the videos I linked on my thread entitled Fantasy

DenverBrit
03-26-2013, 07:23 AM
I suspect this debt is much more complex than Greek bonds and Russian laundered money. Not saying that is not one level of it but my reading tells me it is much more complex than that. Truth is neither one of us could possibly know the full details but I will be willing to bet it's not as simple as you believe. Guess I just agree to disagree on this one. If you have some time you might watch the videos I linked on my thread entitled Fantasy

Add greed and corruption.

baja
03-26-2013, 08:12 AM
Add greed and corruption.

Yes I have I just spell it differently - derivative market

houghtam
03-26-2013, 11:06 AM
DJIA up 75 points in latest Cypriot banking panic!

Must be that heralded "buy high, sell low" strategy I'm hearing about.

Rohirrim
03-26-2013, 11:35 AM
One of the main Cypriot bank problems are massive Greek bond holdings.

Again, this is offshore banking, always high risk and returns, the depositors knew that and understood if the bank goes, so does their cash.

Besides, much of the deposits are suspected Russian mob money being laundered.

I wonder what would happen if a revolution took place in the Cayman Islands and some communist like Chavez took over and seized all the banks? You'd hear some squeaking then. :rofl:

DenverBrit
03-26-2013, 11:48 AM
I wonder what would happen if a revolution took place in the Cayman Islands and some communist like Chavez took over and seized all the banks? You'd hear some squeaking then. :rofl:

Considering that an 'offshore bank' has been rescued and most of the deposits salvaged, there's an awful lot of ungrateful Russians still whining.

All that stopped the Cypriots from nationalizing the banks, was the bailout. So now the Germans and French have the pleasure of subsidizing Russian mob money.

And people wonder why the UK said 'no thanks' to dumping sterling and joining the Euro. :)

mhgaffney
03-26-2013, 12:20 PM
One of the main Cypriot bank problems are massive Greek bond holdings.

Again, this is offshore banking, always high risk and returns, the depositors knew that and understood if the bank goes, so does their cash.

Besides, much of the deposits are suspected Russian mob money being laundered.

The rationalizations for theft are endless.

No surprise that you bought these. I will watch your reaction when they start stealing from US bank accounts.

DenverBrit
03-26-2013, 12:28 PM
The rationalizations for theft are endless.

No surprise that you bought these. I will watch your reaction when they start stealing from US bank accounts.

Quite the opposite.

Obviously you just don't grasp the difference between an 'offshore bank' and an FDIC insured bank, or the precedent set by rescuing one.

You'd rather focus on how the poor Russian mob lost 40% of their drug money.

If the Eurozone hadn't stepped up and bailed them out, Cyprus would be looking at a banking system collapse, and EVERY depositor would have been cleaned out.

I'm sure you'd prefer that as it suits your 'collapse of the world economy' scenario.

You'll just have to wait!

baja
03-26-2013, 07:28 PM
Have The Russians Already Quietly Withdrawn All Their Cash From Cyprus?
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/25/2013 17:00 -0400

European Central Bank Latvia New Normal recovery Reuters


Yesterday, we first reported on something very disturbing (at least to Cyprus' citizens): despite the closed banks (which will mostly reopen tomorrow, while the two biggest soon to be liquidated banks Laiki and BoC will be shuttered until Thursday) and the capital controls, the local financial system has been leaking cash. Lots and lots of cash.

Alas, we did not have much granularity or details on who or where these illegal transfers were conducted with. Today, courtesy of a follow up by Reuters, we do.

The result, at least for Europe, is quite scary because let's recall that the primary political purpose of destroying the Cyprus financial system was simply to punish and humiliate Russian billionaire oligarchs who held tens of billions in "unsecured" deposits with the island nation's two biggest banks.

As it turns out, these same oligrachs may have used the one week hiatus period of total chaos in the banking system to transfer the bulk of the cash they had deposited with one of the two main Cypriot banks, in the process making the whole punitive point of collapsing the Cyprus financial system entirely moot.

From Reuters:

While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.

No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.
So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and other affiliates?

Just brilliant.

And if there was any doubt that the entire process of destroying one entire nation was simply to punish Cyprus, it can be completely cleared away now:

ECB officials contacted Latvia, another EU country that has received large Russian deposits, to warn authorities against taking in Russian money fleeing Cyprus, two sources familiar with the contacts said.

"It was made clear to our Latvian friends that if they want to join the euro, they should not provide a haven for Russian money exiting Cyprus," a euro zone central banker said.
If one thinks there is any material Russian cash therefore left in Cyprus with this epic loophole in place, we urge them to make a deposit in the insolvent nation. One person who certainly will not be allocating any of his money into Bank of Cyprus is German FinMin Schaeuble:

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said the bank closure had limited capital flight but that the ECB was looking closely at the issue. He declined to provide figures.
Perhaps because if he did, it would become clear that the only entities truly punished by this weekend's actions are not evil Russian billionaires, but small and medium domestic companies, and other moderately wealthy individuals, hardly any of them from the former "Evil Empire."

Companies that had to meet margin calls to avoid defaulting on deals were granted funds. Transfers for trade in humanitarian products, medicines and jet fuel were allowed.
The stealth withdrawals by Russians of course means that the two megabanks are now utterly drained of capital, and that the haircuts on those who still have unsecured deposits with the two banks will be so big it will likely mean a complete wipeout of all deposits. As in 0% recovery on your deposits!

In other words, by now any big Russian funds in Cyprus are long gone, and the only damage accrues to the locals: for one reason because their money over the critical EUR100K threshold has been "vaporized", and for another because the marginal driving force and loan demand creator in Cyprus, the Russians, are gone and are never coming back again.

This is what passes for monetary real-politik in the New Normal - an entire nation becomes collateral when pursuing a wealthy group of people. And the "wealthy group" is victorious in the end despite everything...

If we were Cypriots at this point we would be angry. Very, very angry.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/have-russians-already-quietly-withdrawn-all-their-cash-cyprus

mhgaffney
03-27-2013, 01:52 PM
Quite the opposite.

Obviously you just don't grasp the difference between an 'offshore bank' and an FDIC insured bank, or the precedent set by rescuing one.

You'd rather focus on how the poor Russian mob lost 40% of their drug money.

If the Eurozone hadn't stepped up and bailed them out, Cyprus would be looking at a banking system collapse, and EVERY depositor would have been cleaned out.

I'm sure you'd prefer that as it suits your 'collapse of the world economy' scenario.

You'll just have to wait!

So you support the bail outs. No surprise -- given your past predilections.

The people are being raped to pay for the bank's mistakes/incompetence/criminality.

The FDIC protection here won't begin to save Americans. The fund is woefully inadequate to cover what is coming.

MHG

DenverBrit
03-27-2013, 02:19 PM
So you support the bail outs. No surprise -- given your past predilections.

The people are being raped to pay for the bank's mistakes/incompetence/criminality.

The FDIC protection here won't begin to save Americans. The fund is woefully inadequate to cover what is coming.

MHG

And your solution is??

Fedaykin
03-27-2013, 03:03 PM
Why gold is a great bargain today at 1605/ounce

Check out the chart below which shows the steady rise in the price of gold from 2001 to 2010 -- at which point the fed began manipulating the price to keep it from rising further.

Without that artificial cap - - you can extrapolate the slope to what gold would in all likelihood be at today -- somewhere conservatively above 2200/ounce.

The Fed's shorting of gold down to boost confidence in the dollar shows their desperation. Otherwise -- why thwart a bull market?

MHG

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/extrapolating.png

mhgaffney
03-27-2013, 04:33 PM
And your solution is??

Did you watch the Paul Craig Roberts interview on Alex Jones -- last Friday.

No. The link was posted.

There is no solution. There is no way to avert what is coming. The best we can do is to try to prepare as individuals.

Here is a reasonable opinion piece about the actual significance of Cyprus. This author says it's the beginning of the end of the Euro.

MHG


Worst Bailout.... EVER
March 27, 2013 10:53 AM

http://adventuresincapitalism.com/post/2013/03/27/Worst-Bailout-EVER.aspx

W*GS
03-27-2013, 05:23 PM
There is no solution. There is no way to avert what is coming. The best we can do is to try to prepare as individuals.

Bull****.

Just more of your passivist fatalist negativist crapola.

The emotional health and average intelligence of humanity as whole will measurably improve when you kick the bucket.

DenverBrit
03-27-2013, 05:44 PM
Did you watch the Paul Craig Roberts interview on Alex Jones -- last Friday.

No. The link was posted.

There is no solution. There is no way to avert what is coming. The best we can do is to try to prepare as individuals.

Here is a reasonable opinion piece about the actual significance of Cyprus. This author says it's the beginning of the end of the Euro.

MHG


Worst Bailout.... EVER
March 27, 2013 10:53 AM

http://adventuresincapitalism.com/post/2013/03/27/Worst-Bailout-EVER.aspx

So you'd let Cyprus crash and burn?

baja
03-27-2013, 06:48 PM
So you'd let Cyprus crash and burn?


Iceland didn't pay and didn't crash and burn, on the contrary the have one of the fastest growing economies in the world once they refused to be bullied into paying someone else's debt.

BTW didn't you call Cyprus an unimportant island who's banks were mostly a haven for laundered drug money. Did you catch the article reporting the Russians got most of their money out See my post above

DenverBrit
03-27-2013, 06:52 PM
Iceland didn't pay and didn't crash and burn, on the contrary the have one of the fastest growing economies in the world once they refused to be bullied into paying someone else's debt.

BTW didn't you call Cyprus an unimportant island who's banks were mostly a haven for laundered drug money. Did you catch the article reporting the Russians got most of their money out See my post above

No and yes.

Your linked story is probably bull**** btw, I can't find any mention of it on the BBC or Economist sites. Got another source?

Meck77
03-28-2013, 04:22 AM
Meanwhile Obama is continuing with infinite Quantitative Easing @ $85,000,000,000 per month. PER MONTH!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-doves-in-no-rush-to-scale-back-asset-purchases-2013-03-27?dist=beforebell

Rohirrim
03-28-2013, 07:07 AM
Meanwhile Obama is continuing with infinite Quantitative Easing @ $85,000,000,000 per month. PER MONTH!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-doves-in-no-rush-to-scale-back-asset-purchases-2013-03-27?dist=beforebell

What do you think would happen if the Fed sent the signal that it no longer had faith in U.S. bonds?

Oh, and BTW, it's not Obama this, Obama that. What a bunch of crap. Like the majority of presidents, if you quizzed him on all this monetary alchemy, he wouldn't have a clue - like the overwhelming majority of Americans. Some people forget, when Wall Street created the derivatives market, they brought in physicists to design it. Even they don't understand it.

We've got to take down the casino and return to sound money principles. Too bad our politicians are too gutless and corrupt to even approach such an idea. Meanwhile, Clinton plays golf with Bush. And so it goes...

baja
03-28-2013, 08:09 AM
What do you think would happen if the Fed sent the signal that it no longer had faith in U.S. bonds?

Oh, and BTW, it's not Obama this, Obama that. What a bunch of crap. Like the majority of presidents, if you quizzed him on all this monetary alchemy, he wouldn't have a clue - like the overwhelming majority of Americans. Some people forget, when Wall Street created the derivatives market, they brought in physicists to design it. Even they don't understand it.

We've got to take down the casino and return to sound money principles. Too bad our politicians are too gutless and corrupt to even approach such an idea. Meanwhile, Clinton plays golf with Bush. And so it goes...

And yet there is no long term plan that does not include you or me. The elite few want most of us useless eaters dead. That's how they see us.

Rohirrim
03-28-2013, 08:39 AM
And yet there is no long term plan that does not include you or me. The elite few want most of us useless eaters dead. That's how they see us.

Yeah. Everything's a conspiracy. :oyvey:

baja
03-28-2013, 09:12 AM
Yeah. Everything's a conspiracy. :oyvey:

See here's your problem. You see circumstances as separate but what really is taking place is a grand global plan being played out. It includes banking military agribusiness health education politics and more. This control is at the very top and many below doing their bidding are compartmentalized.

I realize how crazy and impossible this seems but none the less it is very real. At some point you will come to realize this. A some point it will be so in your face you will have to see it. Let's hope it is before they have us all on complete lock down. We are not in their plans for the future Ro. They will have robots to do most of the necessary work and we become useless eaters. Think of all the problems that would just disappear if the global population was somehow reduced by 80%. There is a group that sees this as their duty and then have been working this plan for a very long time. And "They" control most of the money and power.

If I didn't uncover this information for myself and was reading this post I would say this person writing this is completely nuts.

How do we not see this you ask?

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/illuminati_formula_mind_control.htm

W*GS
03-28-2013, 09:32 AM
Just for baja...

http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Conspiracy.jpg

baja
03-28-2013, 09:41 AM
http://www.soveriegn.freeservers.com/rothschild.htm

baja
03-28-2013, 09:49 AM
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/illuminati_formula_mind_control.htm

W*GS
03-28-2013, 09:54 AM
Right on to baja...

http://www.starbase400.org/academy/races/GGornRock1.jpg

baja
03-28-2013, 10:05 AM
I'm sure you crack yourself up.

I am willing to bet you do not have even one friend.

Would you like me to tell you why you find yourself friendless?

W*GS
03-28-2013, 10:20 AM
Belief in a global conspiracy is coward's copout.

baja
03-28-2013, 10:40 AM
define coward

W*GS
03-28-2013, 11:30 AM
define coward

You. Because you can always blame "the Conspiracy" for all your fackups.

mhgaffney
03-28-2013, 07:02 PM
So you'd let Cyprus crash and burn?

As Baja pointed out -- Iceland is showing the way. They put their own banksters behind bars where they belong -- and Iceland's economy is improving.

Norway and Sweden also revolted against the bankers many years ago - -and took control of their countries back.

But this kind of solution will not come to the US -- at least not in time -- maybe later AFTER the dollar collapses.

MHG

DenverBrit
03-28-2013, 10:05 PM
As Baja pointed out -- Iceland is showing the way. They put their own banksters behind bars where they belong -- and Iceland's economy is improving.

Norway and Sweden also revolted against the bankers many years ago - -and took control of their countries back.

But this kind of solution will not come to the US -- at least not in time -- maybe later AFTER the dollar collapses.

MHG

Completely different scenarios. Do you know the important differences?

mhgaffney
03-29-2013, 08:29 AM
Completely different scenarios. Do you know the important differences?

Yeah the difference is you support the bailouts (the banksters) and I support the people.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 09:17 AM
Yeah the difference is you support the bailouts (the banksters) and I support the people.

Support the people? You? :rofl:

People=Russians laundering money.

The deal was hammered out at the last possible minute, as Cyprus banks were literally running out of money — with no more than a few million euros left, unable to restock ATMs, and the prospect of a cashless freefall looming. The President of Cyprus, Nicos Anastasiades, had previously refused to contemplate the deal, but in the end he presumably felt he had no choice.

The exclusion of pretty much every Cypriot — those with under 100,000 euros in cash deposits — from confiscation has at least saved many people from disaster.



All you do is use 'banksters' at every opportunity like a ****ing parrot.

As usual, you are a lazy researcher/historian who lacks even the basic knowledge of the topics you argue.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 11:00 AM
Once more for the idiot Gaffney.

5 Hiding money in tax havens can turn into hide-and-seek

German chancellor Angela Merkel declared the Cyprus financial services business model, in which banks were eight times the size of the country's GDP, as "dead" – unusually blunt language for a world leader. But it is a warning shot to rich tax-dodgers everywhere: if you park your money in offshore havens, it's at risk.

Some Russians will lose 40% of their cash, but will find little sympathy from German taxpayers suffering bailout fatigue, who regard it as dirty money laundered into the EU through the back door.

However, Cyprus is not the only country to run a business model where bank assets are a large multiple of GDP. Luxembourg has bank assets that are 22.5 times the size of its economy – greater than Cyprus. Both Malta and Ireland have banking sectors that, relative to their economies, are bigger than the banks in Cyprus.

The Channel Islands must be asking if running an economy based on offshore banking is the one-way ticket to prosperity it seemed in the past.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/mar/29/10-lessons-cyprus-bailout

mhgaffney
03-29-2013, 02:19 PM
Support the people? You? :rofl:

People=Russians laundering money.



All you do is use 'banksters' at every opportunity like a ****ing parrot.

As usual, you are a lazy researcher/historian who lacks even the basic knowledge of the topics you argue.

Brit is a fully brainwashed American. He swallows the BS rationalization about Russian dirty money.

Sure some of the Cyprus money being "taxed" (stolen) is dirty -- but this does not justify the seizures -- which let us remember are not the result of any criminal convictions -- but are being done with no due process -- in a wholly arbitrary manner.

It's theft pure and simple.

MHG

baja
03-29-2013, 02:27 PM
Brit is a fully brainwashed American. He swallows the BS rationalization about Russian dirty money.

Sure some of the Cyprus money being "taxed" (stolen) is dirty -- but this does not justify the seizures -- which let us remember are not the result of any criminal convictions -- but are being done with no due process -- in a wholly arbitrary manner.

It's theft pure and simple.

MHG

Surprise;

Yesterday, we first reported on something very disturbing (at least to Cyprus' citizens): despite the closed banks (which will mostly reopen tomorrow, while the two biggest soon to be liquidated banks Laiki and BoC will be shuttered until Thursday) and the capital controls, the local financial system has been leaking cash. Lots and lots of cash.

Alas, we did not have much granularity or details on who or where these illegal transfers were conducted with. Today, courtesy of a follow up by Reuters, we do.

The result, at least for Europe, is quite scary because let's recall that the primary political purpose of destroying the Cyprus financial system was simply to punish and humiliate Russian billionaire oligarchs who held tens of billions in "unsecured" deposits with the island nation's two biggest banks.

As it turns out, these same oligrachs may have used the one week hiatus period of total chaos in the banking system to transfer the bulk of the cash they had deposited with one of the two main Cypriot banks, in the process making the whole punitive point of collapsing the Cyprus financial system entirely moot.

From Reuters:

While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.

No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.
So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and other affiliates?

Just brilliant.

And if there was any doubt that the entire process of destroying one entire nation was simply to punish Cyprus, it can be completely cleared away now:

baja
03-29-2013, 02:29 PM
From Reuters:



While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.



No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.

So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and other affiliates?

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 02:44 PM
Brit is a fully brainwashed American. He swallows the BS rationalization about Russian dirty money.

Sure some of the Cyprus money being "taxed" (stolen) is dirty -- but this does not justify the seizures -- which let us remember are not the result of any criminal convictions -- but are being done with no due process -- in a wholly arbitrary manner.

It's theft pure and simple.

MHG

Gaffney.

You obviously know nothing about banking, other than the epithet 'banksters.'

Bailing out Cyprus, before it went into default required bailing out the OFFSHORE BANKS. You know, the place where the mega wealthy hide their money to avoid taxes. This is a 'FIRST.'

In order to do so, the smaller depositors were 'insured' by the EuroZone. Otherwise, the vast majority of Cypriots would have been wiped out and the islands economy tanked so badly, they would have been forced out of the Eurozone. Both events may still happen eventually.

In the meantime, the 'people' who's 'side' you claim, unconvincingly, to be on will get their money because it is now insured. Only those who used the bank to avoid taxes, launder money or went for high risk, high yield returns will be affected.

The exclusion of pretty much every Cypriot — those with under 100,000 euros in cash deposits — from confiscation has at least saved many people from disaster.

You continue to make stupid statements because you're to lazy/stupid to learn the facts. No matter how well documented.

http://s4.bo.lt/page=2egt1ba4et:type=asset:version=4/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/wpid-facebook_-712025363.jpg

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 02:55 PM
From Reuters:



While ordinary Cypriots queued at ATM machines to withdraw a few hundred euros as credit card transactions stopped, other depositors used an array of techniques to access their money.



No one knows exactly how much money has left Cyprus' banks, or where it has gone. The two banks at the centre of the crisis - Cyprus Popular Bank, also known as Laiki, and Bank of Cyprus - have units in London which remained open throughout the week and placed no limits on withdrawals. Bank of Cyprus also owns 80 percent of Russia's Uniastrum Bank, which put no restrictions on withdrawals in Russia. Russians were among Cypriot banks' largest depositors.

So while one could not withdraw from Bank of Cyprus or Laiki, one could withdraw without limitations from subsidiary and OpCo banks, and other affiliates?

You're still pasting a blog from Hugo Dixon.

If this were happening, why is he the only one reporting it? Sole source for these stories are always suspicious and almost always fiction.

This, on the other hand is widely reported and 3 hours old.

Cyprus Bank Transactions Have No Domestic Limits, Central Bank Says

NICOSIA, Cyprus — Cyprus' central bank tried to kickstart spending in a country left reeling by a 10-day bank closure and financial near-collapse by telling Cypriots Friday that there were no limits on domestic debit and credit card transactions.

The central bank made the announcement to clarify the capital control rules it introduced this week to prevent a run on the country's banks.

The banking authority said that, while there is a 5,000 euro ($6,402.50) limit on credit and debit card purchases abroad, there were no such limits on similar domestic transactions and money transfers.

Meanwhile, government spokesman Christos Stylianides said that authorities would look into media reports about a leaked list of politicians and other high-profile individuals who had bank loans written off.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/cyprus-bank-transaction-limit_n_2979276.html

baja
03-29-2013, 03:15 PM
Do a Start Page search for;

Russians allowed to withdraw funds from Cyprus bank accounts


You will get a lot more sources.

DenverBrit
03-29-2013, 03:27 PM
Do a Start Page search for;

Russians allowed to withdraw funds from Cyprus bank accounts


You will get a lot more sources.

On page one of that Google search, only one other source mentions that rumor.....and they are quoting....yes, you guessed it, Hugo Dixon.

You didn't even bother to check it yourself. Baja. If it's true, every news outlet would be reporting it and it would show up on page one of a Google search. It didn't.

No doubt there are attempts to circumvent the 'account freeze,' but so far, it's a non starter of a story.

baja
03-29-2013, 03:46 PM
On page one of that Google search, only one other source mentions that rumor.....and they are quoting....yes, you guessed it, Hugo Dixon.

You didn't even bother to check it yourself. Baja. If it's true, every news outlet would be reporting it and it would show up on page one of a Google search. It didn't.

No doubt there are attempts to circumvent the 'account freeze,' but so far, it's a non starter of a story.

Do you know Google tailors their search to your search history?

Your search results will be different than mine because of our search history.

Arkie
03-30-2013, 08:48 AM
http://bitcoin.org/en/

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bitcoin

Bitcoin deserves it's own thread. I still don't know what to think about it. I wish I jumped on this train years ago, or even a month ago. It's quadrupled since February! This could be the future currency, or it could be just a fad. I haven't bought any yet, and I've already missed out on a lot of value. One bitcoin is worth $90 today. It was worth $20 in February. It took thousands of bitcoin to equal just $1 a few years ago. For example, the first pizza was bought with 10,000 BTC in 2010. That would be a $90,000 pizza today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

baja
03-30-2013, 09:25 AM
Bitcoin deserves it's own thread. I still don't know what to think about it. I wish I jumped on this train years ago, or even a month ago. It's quadrupled since February! This could be the future currency, or it could be just a fad. I haven't bought any yet, and I've already missed out on a lot of value. One bitcoin is worth $90 today. It was worth $20 in February. It took thousands of bitcoin to equal just $1 a few years ago. For example, the first pizza was bought with 10,000 BTC in 2010. That would be a $90,000 pizza today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

The same " I wish I woulda " argument was made about gold when it went to $400

Go buy what you can afford NOW.

DenverBrit
03-30-2013, 09:48 AM
Do you know Google tailors their search to your search history?

Your search results will be different than mine because of our search history.

Ok, then you'll have to post the links. :)

Arkie
03-30-2013, 10:16 AM
The same " I wish I woulda " argument was made about gold when it went to $400

Go buy what you can afford NOW.

What about cyber attacks or government takeovers? It's too dependent on so many factors I don't fully understand. I don't trust the security. I would be interested in the opinions of some of the tech savvy people on this forum like Taco John. I believe in the fundamentals if it's secure and stays true to its supply increase schedule. It's a better hedge than gold, and I've been advocating gold on this forum for 5 years. I can also physically secure it myself.

baja
03-30-2013, 10:22 AM
What about cyber attacks or government takeovers? It's too dependent on so many factors I don't fully understand. I don't trust the security. I would be interested in the opinions of some of the tech savvy people on this forum like Taco John. I believe in the fundamentals if it's secure and stays true to its supply increase schedule. It's a better hedge than gold, and I've been advocating gold on this forum for 5 years. I can also physically secure it myself.

Opportunity with a huge up side is never without risk.

I will start a thread as you suggested where we can collect and post information.

Meck77
03-30-2013, 01:00 PM
Ok fellas check out what the FDIC and Bank of England are up to. It appears what some of us suspected. Cyprus was only a test. See (*****) Below

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) and the Bank of England—together with the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and the Financial Services Authority— have been working to develop resolution strategies for the failure of globally active, systemically important, financial institutions (SIFIs or G-SIFIs) with significant operations on both sides of the Atlantic.
The goal is to produce resolution strategies that could be implemented for the failure of one or more of the largest financial institutions with extensive activities in our respective jurisdictions. These resolution strategies should maintain systemically important operations and contain threats to financial stability. (*****They should also assign losses to shareholders and unsecured creditors in the group, thereby avoiding the need for a bailout by taxpayers. ****)

Summary Here
http://www.silverdoctors.com/fdic-ba...or-tbtf-banks/

Actual FDIC Document with the quote I posted above.

http://www.fdic.gov/about/srac/2012/gsifi.pdf

baja
03-30-2013, 03:42 PM
And so it begins

but you lemmings say all is well........" I be insured"

Banksters have gambled wildly and recklessly (Derivatives) and there is more money owed out than exists in the world. Thing is they want you to pay first.

Seems like a good time to buy some BitCoin.

mhgaffney
03-31-2013, 06:47 PM
Ok fellas check out what the FDIC and Bank of England are up to. It appears what some of us suspected. Cyprus was only a test. See (*****) Below

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) and the Bank of England—together with the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and the Financial Services Authority— have been working to develop resolution strategies for the failure of globally active, systemically important, financial institutions (SIFIs or G-SIFIs) with significant operations on both sides of the Atlantic.
The goal is to produce resolution strategies that could be implemented for the failure of one or more of the largest financial institutions with extensive activities in our respective jurisdictions. These resolution strategies should maintain systemically important operations and contain threats to financial stability. (*****They should also assign losses to shareholders and unsecured creditors in the group, thereby avoiding the need for a bailout by taxpayers. ****)

Summary Here
http://www.silverdoctors.com/fdic-ba...or-tbtf-banks/

Actual FDIC Document with the quote I posted above.

http://www.fdic.gov/about/srac/2012/gsifi.pdf

The executive summary gives away the game when they call their strategy a "top down" approach.

Three guesses.

Here's another transparent passage. Notice they don't show concern that banks are too big to fail. This says it all:

The financial crisis that began in late 2007 highlighted the shortcomings of the arrangements for handling the failure of large financial institutions that were in place on either side of the Atlantic. Large banking organizations in both the U.S. and the U.K. had become highly leveraged and complex, with numerous and dispersed financial operations, extensive off-balance-sheet activities, and opaque financial statements. These institutions were managed as single entities, despite their subsidiaries being structured as separate and distinct legal entities. They were highly interconnected through their capital markets activities, interbank lending, payments, and off-balance-sheet arrangements.

baja
03-31-2013, 07:56 PM
The executive summary gives away the game when they call their strategy a "top down" approach.

Three guesses.

Here's another transparent passage. Notice they don't show concern that banks are too big to fail. This says it all:

The financial crisis that began in late 2007 highlighted the shortcomings of the arrangements for handling the failure of large financial institutions that were in place on either side of the Atlantic. Large banking organizations in both the U.S. and the U.K. had become highly leveraged and complex, with numerous and dispersed financial operations, extensive off-balance-sheet activities, and opaque financial statements. These institutions were managed as single entities, despite their subsidiaries being structured as separate and distinct legal entities. They were highly interconnected through their capital markets activities, interbank lending, payments, and off-balance-sheet arrangements.

No collusion there.... There is no global bank just a bunch of highly competitive banks vying for your deposit dollars Nothing to see here. Move along Move along

mhgaffney
04-02-2013, 03:39 PM
The Great Cyprus Bank Robbery

by Ron Paul

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34486.htm

Smiling Assassin27
04-03-2013, 11:17 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BG8VydgCUAArSgF.jpg

baja
04-05-2013, 01:31 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BG8VydgCUAArSgF.jpg

rep

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws" - Amschel Rothschild

mhgaffney
04-06-2013, 03:02 PM
I just heard from a friend who cashed in his 401 and had to pay a new 40% tax -- which is much higher than his usual payroll tax.

Looks like PCR is on target. He recently predicted the gov't would start going after pensions. Obama will announce next week a new tax on socoal security/Medicare.

The unravelling is well underway. MHG


The Assault On Gold

By Paul Craig Roberts

April 05, 2013 "Information Clearing House" - For Americans, financial and economic Armageddon might be close at hand. The evidence for this conclusion is the concerted effort by the Federal Reserve and its dependent financial institutions to scare people away from gold and silver by driving down their prices.

When gold prices hit $1,917.50 an ounce on August 23, 2011, a gain of more than $500 an ounce in less than 8 months, capping a rise over a decade from $272 at the end of December 2000, the Federal Reserve panicked. With the US dollar losing value so rapidly compared to the world standard for money, the Federal Reserve’s policy of printing $1 trillion annually in order to support the impaired balance sheets of banks and to finance the federal deficit was placed in danger. Who could believe the dollar’s exchange rate in relation to other currencies when the dollar was collapsing in value in relation to gold and silver.

The Federal Reserve realized that its massive purchase of bonds in order to keep their prices high (and thus interest rates low) was threatened by the dollar’s rapid loss of value in terms of gold and silver. The Federal Reserve was concerned that large holders of US dollars, such as the central banks of China and Japan and the OPEC sovereign investment funds, might join the flight of individual investors away from the US dollar, thus ending in the fall of the dollar’s foreign exchange value and thus decline in US bond and stock prices.

Intelligent people could see that the US government could not afford the long and numerous wars that the neoconservatives were engineering or the loss of tax base and consumer income from offshoring millions of US middle class jobs for the sake of executive bonuses and shareholder capital gains. They could see what was in the cards, and began exiting the dollar for gold and silver.

Central banks are slower to act. Saudi Arabia and the oil emirates are dependent on US protection and do not want to anger their protector. Japan is a puppet state that is careful in its relationship with its master. China wanted to hold on to the American consumer market for as long as that market existed. It was individuals who began the exit from the US dollar.

When gold topped $1,900, Washington put out the story that gold was a bubble. The presstitute media fell in line with Washington’s propaganda. “Gold looking a bit bubbly” declared CNN Money on August 23, 2011.

The Federal Reserve used its dependent “banks too big to fail” to short the precious metals markets. By selling naked shorts in the paper bullion market against the rising demand for physical possession, the Federal Reserve was able to drive the price of gold down to $1,750 and keep it more or less capped there until recently, when a concerted effort on April 2-3, 2013, drove gold down to $1,557 and silver, which had approached $50 per ounce in 2011, down to $27.

The Federal Reserve began its April Fool’s assault on gold by sending the word to brokerage houses, which quickly went out to clients, that hedge funds and other large investors were going to unload their gold positions and that clients should get out of the precious metal market prior to these sales. As this inside information was the government’s own strategy, individuals cannot be prosecuted for acting on it. By this operation, the Federal Reserve, a totally corrupt entity, was able to combine individual flight with institutional flight. Bullion prices took a big hit, and bullishness departed from the gold and silver markets. The flow of dollars into bullion, which threatened to become a torrent, was stopped.

For now it seems that the Fed has succeeded in creating wariness among Americans about the virtues of gold and silver, and thus the Federal Reserve has extended the time that it can print money to keep the house of cards standing. This time could be short or it could last a couple of years.

However, for the Russians and Chinese, whose central banks have more dollars than they any longer want, and for the 1.3 billion Indians in India, the low dollar price for gold that the Federal Reserve has engineered is an opportunity. They see the opportunity that the Federal Reserve has given them to purchase gold at $350-$400 an ounce less than two years ago as a gift.

The Federal Reserve’s attack on bullion is an act of desperation that, when widely recognized, will doom its policy.

As I have explained previously, the orchestrated move against gold and silver is to protect the exchange value of the US dollar. If bullion were not a threat, the government would not be attacking it.

The Federal Reserve is creating $1 trillion new dollars per year, but the world is moving away from the use of the dollar for international payments and, thus, as reserve currency. The result is an increase in supply and a decrease in demand. This means a falling exchange value of the dollar, domestic inflation from rising import prices, and a rising interest rate and collapsing bond, stock and real estate markets.

The Federal Reserve’s orchestration against bullion cannot ultimately succeed. It is designed to gain time for the Federal Reserve to be able to continue financing the federal budget deficit by printing money and also to keep interest rates low and debt prices high in order to support the banks' balance sheets.

When the Federal Reserve can no longer print due to dollar decline which printing would make worse, US bank deposits and pensions could be grabbed in order to finance the federal budget deficit for couple of more years. Anything to stave off the final catastrophe.

The manipulation of the bullion market is illegal, but as government is doing it the law will not be enforced.

By its obvious and concerted attack on gold and silver, the US government could not give any clearer warning that trouble is approaching. The values of the dollar and of financial assets denominated in dollars are in doubt.

Those who believe in government and those who believe in deregulation will be proved equally wrong. The United States of America is past its zenith. As I predicted early in the 21st century, in 20 years the US will be a third world country. We are halfway there.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following. His latest book, The Failure of Laissez Faire Capitalism and Economic Dissolution of the West is now available. http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

Fedaykin
04-06-2013, 04:32 PM
I just heard from a friend who cashed in his 401 and had to pay a new 40% tax -- which is much higher than his usual payroll tax.

Citation?

The actual penalty for early withdrawl is 10% on top of your marginal tax rate. In other words, depending on your tax bracket the tax you pay for early withdrawl is between 20% (you you have no very little income) and 49.6% (for the highest incomes).

Unless you just started your 401k or the market has done very badly, you're still likely come out ahead from having not invested pre-tax income.

The penalty is not 40%.

DenverBrit
04-06-2013, 05:03 PM
When gold topped $1,900, Washington put out the story that gold was a bubble. The presstitute media fell in line with Washington’s propaganda. “Gold looking a bit bubbly” declared CNN Money on August 23, 2011.

There was no need for Washington to 'put out a story' because gold was 'bubbly' and has stabilized since.

Conspiracy nit wits. :loopy:

mhgaffney
04-06-2013, 06:06 PM
Citation?

The actual penalty for early withdrawl is 10% on top of your marginal tax rate. In other words, depending on your tax bracket the tax you pay for early withdrawl is between 20% (you you have no very little income) and 49.6% (for the highest incomes).

Unless you just started your 401k or the market has done very badly, you're still likely come out ahead from having not invested pre-tax income.

The penalty is not 40%.

This is anecdotal. My friend told me he saw a story on the tube about higher taxes on 401ks.

Doesn't apply to me. Sorry.

Fedaykin
04-06-2013, 06:27 PM
This is anecdotal. My friend told me he saw a story on the tube about higher taxes on 401ks.

Doesn't apply to me. Sorry.

LMAO just like all your other B.S.

DenverBrit
04-07-2013, 10:25 AM
This is anecdotal. My friend told me he saw a story on the tube about higher taxes on 401ks.


I just heard from a friend who cashed in his 401 and had to pay a new 40% tax -- which is much higher than his usual payroll tax.

Lying and bull****ing comes so easy for you.

mhgaffney
04-08-2013, 01:05 PM
Anecdotal is anecdotal. Take it for what it is.

When I post my own research I cite sources. (Not that you ever check them.)

mhgaffney
04-11-2013, 03:25 PM
If you think what happened in Cyprus can't happen here, read on.

According to Ellen Brown US law now gives derivatives priority over private bank accounts. Remember -- with the repeal of Glass Steagal in 1998 the barrier between investment banks and regular banks went away.

In a meltdown US law will support banks seizing your private account to cover a bank's losses.
MHG


Winner Takes All: The Super-priority Status of Derivatives

Why Derivatives Threaten Your Bank Account

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34567.htm

By Ellen Brown

April 10, 2013 "Information Clearing House" -" Cyprus-style confiscation of depositor funds has been called the “new normal.” Bail-in policies are appearing in multiple countries directing failing TBTF banks to convert the funds of “unsecured creditors” into capital; and those creditors, it turns out, include ordinary depositors. Even “secured” creditors, including state and local governments, may be at risk. Derivatives have “super-priority” status in bankruptcy, and Dodd Frank precludes further taxpayer bailouts. In a big derivatives bust, there may be no collateral left for the creditors who are next in line.

Shock waves went around the world when the IMF, the EU, and the ECB not only approved but mandated the confiscation of depositor funds to “bail in” two bankrupt banks in Cyprus. A “bail in” is a quantum leap beyond a “bail out.” When governments are no longer willing to use taxpayer money to bail out banks that have gambled away their capital, the banks are now being instructed to “recapitalize” themselves by confiscating the funds of their creditors, turning debt into equity, or stock; and the “creditors” include the depositors who put their money in the bank thinking it was a secure place to store their savings.

The Cyprus bail-in was not a one-off emergency measure but was consistent with similar policies already in the works for the US, UK, EU, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, as detailed in my earlier articles here and here. “Too big to fail” now trumps all. Rather than banks being put into bankruptcy to salvage the deposits of their customers, the customers will be put into bankruptcy to save the banks.

Why Derivatives Threaten Your Bank Account

The big risk behind all this is the massive $230 trillion derivatives boondoggle managed by US banks. Derivatives are sold as a kind of insurance for managing profits and risk; but as Satyajit Das points out in Extreme Money, they actually increase risk to the system as a whole.

In the US after the Glass-Steagall Act was implemented in 1933, a bank could not gamble with depositor funds for its own account; but in 1999, that barrier was removed. Recent congressional investigations have revealed that in the biggest derivative banks, JPMorgan and Bank of America, massive commingling has occurred between their depository arms and their unregulated and highly vulnerable derivatives arms. Under both the Dodd Frank Act and the 2005 Bankruptcy Act, derivative claims have super-priority over all other claims, secured and unsecured, insured and uninsured. In a major derivatives fiasco, derivative claimants could well grab all the collateral, leaving other claimants, public and private, holding the bag.

The tab for the 2008 bailout was $700 billion in taxpayer funds, and that was just to start. Another $700 billion disaster could easily wipe out all the money in the FDIC insurance fund, which has only about $25 billion in it. Both JPMorgan and Bank of America have over $1 trillion in deposits, and total deposits covered by FDIC insurance are about $9 trillion. According to an article on Bloomberg in November 2011, Bank of America’s holding company then had almost $75 trillion in derivatives, and 71% were held in its depository arm; while J.P. Morgan had $79 trillion in derivatives, and 99% were in its depository arm. Those whole mega-sums are not actually at risk, but the cash calculated to be at risk from derivatives from all sources is at least $12 trillion; and JPM is the biggest player, with 30% of the market.

It used to be that the government would backstop the FDIC if it ran out of money. But section 716 of the Dodd Frank Act now precludes the payment of further taxpayer funds to bail out a bank from a bad derivatives gamble. As summarized in a letter from Americans for Financial Reform quoted by Yves Smith:

Section 716 bans taxpayer bailouts of a broad range of derivatives dealing and speculative derivatives activities. Section 716 does not in any way limit the swaps activities which banks or other financial institutions may engage in. It simply prohibits public support for such activities.

There will be no more $700 billion taxpayer bailouts. So where will the banks get the money in the next crisis? It seems the plan has just been revealed in the new bail-in policies.

All Depositors, Secured and Unsecured, May Be at Risk

The bail-in policy for the US and UK is set forth in a document put out jointly by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) and the Bank of England (BOE) in December 2012, titled Resolving Globally Active, Systemically Important, Financial Institutions.

In an April 4th article in Financial Sense, John Butler points out that the directive does not explicitly refer to “depositors.” It refers only to “unsecured creditors.” But the effective meaning of the term, says Butler, is belied by the fact that the FDIC has been put on the job. The FDIC has direct responsibility only for depositors, not for the bondholders who are wholesale non-depositor sources of bank credit. Butler comments:

Do you see the sleight-of-hand at work here? Under the guise of protecting taxpayers, depositors of failing institutions are to be arbitrarily, de-facto subordinated to interbank claims, when in fact they are legally senior to those claims!

. . . [C]onsider the brutal, unjust irony of the entire proposal. Remember, its stated purpose is to solve the problem revealed in 2008, namely the existence of insolvent TBTF institutions that were “highly leveraged and complex, with numerous and dispersed financial operations, extensive off-balance-sheet activities, and opaque financial statements.” Yet what is being proposed is a framework sacrificing depositors in order to maintain precisely this complex, opaque, leverage-laden financial edifice!

If you believe that what has happened recently in Cyprus is unlikely to happen elsewhere, think again. Economic policy officials in the US, UK and other countries are preparing for it. Remember, someone has to pay. Will it be you? If you are a depositor, the answer is yes.

The FDIC was set up to ensure the safety of deposits. Now it, it seems, its function will be the confiscation of deposits to save Wall Street. In the only mention of “depositors” in the FDIC-BOE directive as it pertains to US policy, paragraph 47 says that “the authorities recognize the need for effective communication to depositors, making it clear that their deposits will be protected.” But protected with what? As with MF Global, the pot will already have been gambled away. From whom will the bank get it back? Not the derivatives claimants, who are first in line to be paid; not the taxpayers, since Congress has sealed the vault; not the FDIC insurance fund, which has a paltry $25 billion in it. As long as the derivatives counterparties have super-priority status, the claims of all other parties are in jeopardy.

That could mean not just the “unsecured creditors” but the “secured creditors,” including state and local governments. Local governments keep a significant portion of their revenues in Wall Street banks because smaller local banks lack the capacity to handle their complex business. In the US, banks taking deposits of public funds are required to pledge collateral against any funds exceeding the deposit insurance limit of $250,000. But derivative claims are also secured with collateral, and they have super-priority over all other claimants, including other secured creditors. The vault may be empty by the time local government officials get to the teller’s window. Main Street will again have been plundered by Wall Street.

Super-priority Status for Derivatives Increases Rather than Decreases Risk

Harvard Law Professor Mark Row maintains that the super-priority status of derivatives needs to be repealed. He writes:

. . . [D]erivatives counterparties, . . . unlike most other secured creditors, can seize and immediately liquidate collateral, readily net out gains and losses in their dealings with the bankrupt, terminate their contracts with the bankrupt, and keep both preferential eve-of-bankruptcy payments and fraudulent conveyances they obtained from the debtor, all in ways that favor them over the bankrupt’s other creditors.

. . . [W]hen we subsidize derivatives and similar financial activity via bankruptcy benefits unavailable to other creditors, we get more of the activity than we otherwise would. Repeal would induce these burgeoning financial markets to better recognize the risks of counterparty financial failure, which in turn should dampen the possibility of another AIG-, Bear Stearns-, or Lehman Brothers-style financial meltdown, thereby helping to maintain systemic financial stability.

In The New Financial Deal: Understanding the Dodd-Frank Act and Its (Unintended) Consequences, David Skeel agrees. He calls the Dodd-Frank policy approach “corporatism” – a partnership between government and corporations. Congress has made no attempt in the legislation to reduce the size of the big banks or to undermine the implicit subsidy provided by the knowledge that they will be bailed out in the event of trouble.

Undergirding this approach is what Skeel calls “the Lehman myth,” which blames the 2008 banking collapse on the decision to allow Lehman Brothers to fail. Skeel counters that the Lehman bankruptcy was actually orderly, and the derivatives were unwound relatively quickly. Rather than preventing the Lehman collapse, the bankruptcy exemption for derivatives may have helped precipitate it. When the bank appeared to be on shaky ground, the derivatives players all rushed to put in their claims, in a run on the collateral before it ran out. Skeel says the problem could be resolved by eliminating the derivatives exemption from the stay of proceedings that a bankruptcy court applies to other contracts to prevent this sort of run.

Putting the Brakes on the Wall Street End Game

Besides eliminating the super-priority of derivatives, here are some other ways to block the Wall Street asset grab:

(1) Restore the Glass-Steagall Act separating depository banking from investment banking. Support Marcy Kaptur’s H.R. 129.

(2) Break up the giant derivatives banks. Support Bernie Sanders’ “too big to jail” legislation.

(3) Alternatively, nationalize the TBTFs, as advised in the New York Times by Gar Alperovitz. If taxpayer bailouts to save the TBTFs are unacceptable, depositor bailouts are even more unacceptable.

(4) Make derivatives illegal, as they were between 1936 and 1982 under the Commodities Exchange Act. They can be unwound by simply netting them out, declaring them null and void. As noted by Paul Craig Roberts, “the only major effect of closing out or netting all the swaps (mostly over-the-counter contracts between counter-parties) would be to take $230 trillion of leveraged risk out of the financial system.”

(5) Support the Harkin-Whitehouse bill to impose a financial transactions tax on Wall Street trading. Among other uses, a tax on all trades might supplement the FDIC insurance fund to cover another derivatives disaster.

(5) Establish postal savings banks as government-guaranteed depositories for individual savings. Many countries have public savings banks, which became particularly popular after savings in private banks were wiped out in the banking crisis of the late 1990s.

(6) Establish publicly-owned banks to be depositories of public monies, following the lead of North Dakota, the only state to completely escape the 2008 banking crisis. North Dakota does not keep its revenues in Wall Street banks but deposits them in the state-owned Bank of North Dakota by law. The bank has a mandate to serve the public, and it does not gamble in derivatives.

A motivated state legislature could set up a publicly-owned bank very quickly. Having its own bank would allow the state to protect both its own revenues and those of its citizens while generating the credit needed to support local business and restore prosperity to Main Street.

For more information on the public bank option, see here. Learn more at the Public Banking Institute conference June 2-4 in San Rafael, California, featuring Matt Taibbi, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Gar Alperovitz and others.

Ellen Brown is an attorney, chairman of the Public Banking Institute, and the author of eleven books, including Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth About Our Money System and How We Can Break Free. Her websites are webofdebt.com and ellenbrown.com.

baja
04-11-2013, 06:35 PM
I told you all 5 years ago derivatives was gong to destroy the world financial system and cause a global financial failure.

Get out of paper money and get out of banks