PDA

View Full Version : Those who do not learn from history...


Old Dude
02-28-2013, 11:34 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/02/28/elway-fox-are-sticking-by-shaken-safety-rahim-moore-after-blunder-in-playoffs/

socalorado
02-28-2013, 11:44 AM
http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/bertstare/grand/banana_bert.gif

In before Rev

Rohirrim
02-28-2013, 11:58 AM
Well, Harbaugh said he loved him some Alex Smith too. Just sayin'...

Bacchus
02-28-2013, 12:04 PM
He had a great year and was one of the best tacklers on the team. Manning threw the game ending Int. Are Elway and Fox going to stand by him? Is there an article about this?

Old Dude
02-28-2013, 12:43 PM
Moore had a mediocre year after a terrible rookie season and got burned in historic fashion trying to be a hotdog, destroying Denver's best shot at the Super Bowl in more than a decade. Other than that, he had a fine season.

Play2win
02-28-2013, 12:49 PM
Just more propaganda by fauxnews :)

gyldenlove
02-28-2013, 01:05 PM
It is ridiculous, clearly Moore failed in his first playoff start should be better. At least Elway knows from own experience that if you fail in your first playoff game you have no chance of ever succeeding.....

SlyEli
02-28-2013, 01:06 PM
I don't trust rahim the dream either. I've been advocating picking up a guy like woodson or reed in free agency

Requiem
02-28-2013, 01:16 PM
Considering we have interviewed a half dozen safeties and more corners than you can imagine, I highly doubt that the Broncos are "content" with their position as the article indicates. When you bring in John Lynch to Indy to help you evaluate the position, it is clearing going to get upgraded.

We aren't stupid, FOXNEWS!

gunns
02-28-2013, 01:28 PM
Well judging from some things Elway has said in the past I may just chalk this up to Elway being "politically correct".

I'm hoping he looks at this game like Shanahan looked at the Jacksonville game and fills the needed areas with FA. There were only 3 draft picks that year and none contributed much at all. We need to win now. But I want a new safety, probably more than a CB and I hope Elway is suggesting Moore will remain on the team but may not be the starter.

Requiem
02-28-2013, 01:31 PM
DL, CB, LB, S -- pick a guy from each of these spots.

WR, RB, OL on offense.

Oh darn, we only have 6 picks.

OK, get a free agent somewhere. :)

cutthemdown
02-28-2013, 01:36 PM
It was an epic misplay on Moores part but you have to stick with him. He's a good player and we have bigger needs. Remember had we been better running the ball at the end Moore would not have been on the field. Had Bailey not gotten burnt a couple times, had Manning played better, etc etc. So we can improve the team most IMO by taking a CB, linebackers who can cover TE, DT who can rush the passer.

cutthemdown
02-28-2013, 01:40 PM
DL, CB, LB, S -- pick a guy from each of these spots.

WR, RB, OL on offense.

Oh darn, we only have 6 picks.

OK, get a free agent somewhere. :)

I think cross off safety because we have a young one already. Instead rent another vet safety and hope hes better then Adams.

But.....looking at Mock drafts there is a good chance that CB and Safety present themself with value at our spots. So Elway could say lets really get younger on the back end. Keep Moore, draft a CB, draft a safety and prepare for Bailey not being worth 10 mil a season or whatever it is he makes.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2013, 01:43 PM
I have a lot of respect for Moore. He could have gotten out of that locker room without talking to the media, but he stood up like a man and took what was coming to him. He knows he ****ed up, and he manned up about it.

He's not a perfect player; in fact he's far from it. I'd love to have a shot at Reed or Woodson.

Old Dude would like you all to know he's never ever made a mistake.

Requiem
02-28-2013, 01:44 PM
Cut, remember that Adams deal expires after next year. Quinton Carter definitely showed promise, but he had microfracture -- he is an unknown. I love Bruton as a reserve safety and special teams player, but that is what he is. So essentially we have Moore, Carter, Adams (contract year) and FA in Bruton (who they will re-sign) and Jim Leonhard (FA).

Three guys on the team, one was on IR last year.

For Elway to say they are fine there is hore****.

He even said UDFA Stevie Johnson will compete at MIKE with Nate Irving (special teams guys) to be a starter. Not to mention the FA we have there and the likelihood of Williams getting dumped.

Does Elway think we are stupid?

Everyone knows that DB/LB is a big need for this team. If they stick with what they got and don't improve there, they are assholes of the highest level.

Watch them blow our first round pick on some turd who doesn't even contribute right away.

Kaylore
02-28-2013, 01:45 PM
http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/bertstare/grand/banana_bert.gif

In before Rev

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2681&dateline=1359757993

broncosteven
02-28-2013, 01:47 PM
John gave KM some great press then KM spent the majority of the season inactive.

I think he is just saying the right things to keep Moore's head in the game.

They already fired his position coach, I don't think Moore has been a stud safety but he is better than most. Bring in some competition and if he can't win the gig in TC then it is his loss.

I don't have high hopes of Carter replacing him, I thought Carter was even worse than Moore. I wouldn't mind seeing us draft a safety or 2.

g6matty
02-28-2013, 01:50 PM
you guys need to get over it. crying about rahim like my little sister does over twilight. hes an up and coming player for us and he will get better

Bacchus
02-28-2013, 01:56 PM
Moore had a mediocre year after a terrible rookie season and got burned in historic fashion trying to be a hotdog, destroying Denver's best shot at the Super Bowl in more than a decade. Other than that, he had a fine season.

Stats show he missed the fewest tackles on the team and was one of the leading tacklers.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-28-2013, 02:02 PM
Stats show he missed the fewest tackles on the team and was one of the leading tacklers.

Right. That's what OD means when he says he had a "mediocre" season.

broncosteven
02-28-2013, 02:02 PM
Stats show he missed the fewest tackles on the team and was one of the leading tacklers.

And he was totally out of position and made a couple bad decisions on the TD.

Plus I think both he and Adams were out of position most of the game. They didn't expect Flacco to be able to sling it that far.

Your stats only show he can tackle, they say nothing about his coverage.

Give him some competiton and a chance to win/keep the job in TC. If he can't get on the field and has no depth value then talk about cutting him.

Cito Pelon
02-28-2013, 02:07 PM
Elway was on the radio today for about 5 minutes and just said GM generic crap about this and every other position, just generic "we want to see what we have, we're evaluating, we want to see what happens" just the bland say-nothing you'd expect.

The only concrete thing he said was that they have not tried to get anybody to restructure, and Champ is not moving to safety.

ludo21
02-28-2013, 02:07 PM
i think im leaning towards having a REALLY REALLY REALLY hard time to root for the guy.

he has got to go. (A month ago i said the opposite)

socalorado
02-28-2013, 02:20 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2681&dateline=1359757993

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bert_eyes.gif

Jetmeck
02-28-2013, 02:41 PM
He had a great year and was one of the best tacklers on the team. Manning threw the game ending Int. Are Elway and Fox going to stand by him? Is there an article about this?


I agree 100% with this take........Manning has sucked in the playoffs and stats and win/loss percentage prove this.

Moore made great strides last year and is very young.........to somehow think he wont get btter with experience is just plain stupid.

I quarantee you this you will NEVER have to tell the kid to play back again in a situation like that.

But throwing him away is just dumb...............however that said we eed to draft another safety.

Kaylore
02-28-2013, 02:49 PM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bert_eyes.gif

:erm?:

socalorado
02-28-2013, 02:58 PM
<img src="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=15709&stc=1&d=1147936819">

http://images.wikia.com/thebiglebowski/images/a/ae/The-big-lebowski-reunion-animated-gifs-12.gif

Play2win
02-28-2013, 03:07 PM
I have a lot of respect for Moore. He could have gotten out of that locker room without talking to the media, but he stood up like a man and took what was coming to him. He knows he ****ed up, and he manned up about it.

He's not a perfect player; in fact he's far from it. I'd love to have a shot at Reed or Woodson.

Old Dude would like you all to know he's never ever made a mistake.

Like a large, late-season bet for the Broncos to make it to the Superbowl?

DBroncos4life
02-28-2013, 03:25 PM
I miss the good old days when a coach said something we didn't take it as gospel.

ColoradoDarin
02-28-2013, 03:26 PM
http://images.wikia.com/thebiglebowski/images/a/ae/The-big-lebowski-reunion-animated-gifs-12.gif

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/dhaus5650/gifs/81526106.gif

Smiling Assassin27
02-28-2013, 03:43 PM
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o139/megsparker/11jvimh.gif

mhgaffney
02-28-2013, 03:45 PM
I agree 100% with this take........Manning has sucked in the playoffs and stats and win/loss percentage prove this.

Moore made great strides last year and is very young.........to somehow think he wont get btter with experience is just plain stupid.

I quarantee you this you will NEVER have to tell the kid to play back again in a situation like that.

But throwing him away is just dumb...............however that said we need to draft another safety.

Better to draft a top CB and move Champ to safety.

Champ got burned again in the Pro Bowl.

Smiling Assassin27
02-28-2013, 03:50 PM
Better to draft a top CB and move Champ to safety.

Champ got burned again in the Pro Bowl.


Dude, read that last sentence again. That's like saying it's time for Kobe to hang 'em up because howard isley blew by him in a charity game.

Bacchus
02-28-2013, 04:11 PM
Dude, read that last sentence again. That's like saying it's time for Kobe to hang 'em up because howard isley blew by him in a charity game.

Champs also got burned for 2 TDs against the Ravens. HE SUCKS Get rid of him!!

Manning threw the Game losing INT he sucks get rid of him

Miller was invisible the whole game he sucks get rid of him

Doom was invisible the whole game he sucks get rid of him

Moreno got injured he sucks get rid of him

Hillman did not run the ball well he sucks get rid of him

BroncosfanGuy
02-28-2013, 05:08 PM
Champ got burned again in the Pro Bowl.

what now?

spiralism
02-28-2013, 05:13 PM
He had improved drastically up to that point and he was one of many players who pissed down their legs that day, along with our coach. I'm all for standing by the lad. Though we should be careful that his ****up hasnt messed with his head and causes him to regress.

Old Dude
02-28-2013, 05:16 PM
Actually, I would get rid of Hillman, and I don't trust Moreno to stay healthy.

As for the others, they have track records of accomplishments.

Moore has been a hotdog since the day he got here. He wasted his time looking for killshots instead of learning the position and was rightly benched his rookie season in favor of guys who worked harder. He only got a starting job due to injuries and did nothing once he was there.

Yes, he improved his tackling in his second season. Big deal. When the chips are down, he's still a guy who will consistently overestimate his own abilities and ignore his role and assignment on the team in pursuit of the limelight. That's a hotdog and teams with hotdogs always pay dearly, sooner or later.

And if I pulled the equivalent of that kind of boneheaded move in any job I've ever been paid to perform, I'd fully expect to be fired as well.

yerner
02-28-2013, 05:19 PM
Moore had a mediocre year after a terrible rookie season and got burned in historic fashion trying to be a hotdog, destroying Denver's best shot at the Super Bowl in more than a decade. Other than that, he had a fine season.

You should try watching the games sometime, stupid.

SlyEli
02-28-2013, 05:22 PM
Actually, I would get rid of Hillman, and I don't trust Moreno to stay healthy.

As for the others, they have track records of accomplishments.

Moore has been a hotdog since the day he got here. He wasted his time looking for killshots instead of learning the position and was rightly benched his rookie season in favor of guys who worked harder. He only got a starting job due to injuries and did nothing once he was there.

Yes, he improved his tackling in his second season. Big deal. When the chips are down, he's still a guy who will consistently overestimate his own abilities and ignore his role and assignment on the team in pursuit of the limelight. That's a hotdog and teams with hotdogs always pay dearly, sooner or later.

And if I pulled the equivalent of that kind of boneheaded move in any job I've ever been paid to perform, I'd fully expect to be fired as well.

I'm not the biggest rahim fan or anything but this is just stupid. Because he got one penalty for hitting a defenseless receiver, that means he was "looking for killshots instead of trying to learn the position?" seriously? You have no idea what his work ethic is. Headhunting and learning the position are unrelated. How do you know the guys that replaced him were harder workers?

I do agree that he was a terrible tackler and did nothing great in coverage. But to knock him for things you have no idea about is just stupid

BroncosfanGuy
02-28-2013, 05:29 PM
Actually, I would get rid of Hillman

why? he's the only RB on the roster with gamebreaker ability and he's only entering his 2nd season. It wouldn't make any sense to get rid of Hillman right now unless some crazy team threw Denver an offer it couldn't refuse

Bacchus
02-28-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm not the biggest rahim fan or anything but this is just stupid. Because he got one penalty for hitting a defenseless receiver, that means he was "looking for killshots instead of trying to learn the position?" seriously? You have no idea what his work ethic is. Headhunting and learning the position are unrelated. How do you know the guys that replaced him were harder workers?

I do agree that he was a terrible tackler and did nothing great in coverage. But to knock him for things you have no idea about is just stupid

Moore is one of the best tacklers on the team. How do you people not see that?

broncosteven
02-28-2013, 05:39 PM
Moreno got injured he sucks get rid of him



Finally someone who agrees with me that KM sucks!

SlyEli
02-28-2013, 05:42 PM
Moore is one of the best tacklers on the team. How do you people not see that?

I was referring to his rookie season. He was one of the top tacklers among safeties last year. But his rookie year was embarrassing

SlyEli
02-28-2013, 05:44 PM
Finally someone who agrees with me that KM sucks!

He used to suck, then he improved to slightly above average. I still think they can do better.

cutthemdown
02-28-2013, 07:37 PM
Cut, remember that Adams deal expires after next year. Quinton Carter definitely showed promise, but he had microfracture -- he is an unknown. I love Bruton as a reserve safety and special teams player, but that is what he is. So essentially we have Moore, Carter, Adams (contract year) and FA in Bruton (who they will re-sign) and Jim Leonhard (FA).

Three guys on the team, one was on IR last year.

For Elway to say they are fine there is hore****.

He even said UDFA Stevie Johnson will compete at MIKE with Nate Irving (special teams guys) to be a starter. Not to mention the FA we have there and the likelihood of Williams getting dumped.

Does Elway think we are stupid?

Everyone knows that DB/LB is a big need for this team. If they stick with what they got and don't improve there, they are a-holes of the highest level.

Watch them blow our first round pick on some turd who doesn't even contribute right away.

I think Elway seems to like to go for someone who can contribute right away with the first round pick. But only 2 yrs worth of picks to look at so who knows. I agree there is room for another safety to make the roster. I just feel it will probably be a free agent.

if you think back though Elway probably remember how Broncos used to be known for our linebackers and safetys. Maybe he will want to look for an absolute stud on the back end. Hell move up and grab Vaccaro I don't really care.

Like you mostly I just want players who make the team and contribute. That is how you get better. We still have enough holes IMO to look for better players at RB, OG, C, DT, DE, ILB, CB, S in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

Seriously the team isn't that good despite the 13-3 record.

Bacchus
03-01-2013, 02:40 AM
I was referring to his rookie season. He was one of the top tacklers among safeties last year. But his rookie year was embarrassing

Oh yeah, he was a major disappointment his rookie year. That makes his turnaround even more spectacular. He could make another huge improvement this offseason.

I really like Moore, he is fast and by looking at him you think he is kinda frail for a safety but he isn't. He isnot a big hitter but he brings them down.

I see Champ and Moore back there and Denver would have the fastest safeties in the NFL.

cutthemdown
03-01-2013, 04:34 AM
Moore's season was medicore by NFL standards. But he went from sort of crappy, to now being sort of an avg nfl player. Let's give him that 3rd yr and see if he can make it to above avg. Who knows though maybe he is shell shocked and will have trouble focusing on getting better. Hopefully though it just motivates him to make big plays and get a superbowl ring.

This team could win it all with just a few more good players and less mistakes. The main key will be less friggin mistakes.

Bacchus
03-01-2013, 05:10 AM
Moore's season was medicore by NFL standards. But he went from sort of crappy, to now being sort of an avg nfl player. Let's give him that 3rd yr and see if he can make it to above avg. Who knows though maybe he is shell shocked and will have trouble focusing on getting better. Hopefully though it just motivates him to make big plays and get a superbowl ring.

This team could win it all with just a few more good players and less mistakes. The main key will be less friggin mistakes.

He was one of the leading tacklers on one of the best defenses in the NFL. He also had one of the lowest missed tackle ratios. Go ahead and say it, he played well last year.

rbackfactory80
03-01-2013, 05:53 AM
In related news--

Champ Bailey still the best corner in the game...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-01-2013, 09:26 AM
Actually, I would get rid of Hillman, and I don't trust Moreno to stay healthy.

As for the others, they have track records of accomplishments.

Moore has been a hotdog since the day he got here. He wasted his time looking for killshots instead of learning the position and was rightly benched his rookie season in favor of guys who worked harder. He only got a starting job due to injuries and did nothing once he was there.

Yes, he improved his tackling in his second season. Big deal. When the chips are down, he's still a guy who will consistently overestimate his own abilities and ignore his role and assignment on the team in pursuit of the limelight. That's a hotdog and teams with hotdogs always pay dearly, sooner or later.

And if I pulled the equivalent of that kind of boneheaded move in any job I've ever been paid to perform, I'd fully expect to be fired as well.

Due respect, but how do you hotdog it in the fry pit?

Dr. Broncenstein
03-01-2013, 09:42 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2013/0119/20130119__2013-01-13T011452Z_1123823167_TB3E91D03GKZS_RTRMADP_3_NFL-PLAYOFFS~p1.jpg

Mediator12
03-01-2013, 09:57 AM
He was one of the leading tacklers on one of the best defenses in the NFL. He also had one of the lowest missed tackle ratios. Go ahead and say it, he played well last year.

You know what I am absolutely TIRED of hearing this crap. Moore missed Tackles he never even made it close enough to make, and the tackles he made were late and down the field. He did not miss many by that weak ass PFF criteria, because he took weak angles to the ball and he was late to react to the play. Rarely, did any tackle he made actually stop a play from being executed. Rarely did he make a tackle for loss. Rarely did he make a tackle that stopped a first down. So, the tackles he made were what he was supposed to do, but late. It's like the MLB with 150+ tackles where 80% are after where they should have been made if he executed the play properly.

Playing slow and steady in the NFL is not playing well. Period. He just did his job and not very well. So, his ratio of missed tackles was very good. That is not the question you should be asking, despite PFF's ridiculous stats without analysis emphasis. Did his tackles make a difference or were they simply cleaning up and getting there late? Making a tackle on 3rd and 4, 7 yards down the field is not good. It's a first down. The question is why was he not there earlier?

Bacchus
03-01-2013, 10:17 AM
You know what I am absolutely TIRED of hearing this crap. Moore missed Tackles he never even made it close enough to make, and the tackles he made were late and down the field. He did not miss many by that weak ass PFF criteria, because he took weak angles to the ball and he was late to react to the play. Rarely, did any tackle he made actually stop a play from being executed. Rarely did he make a tackle for loss. Rarely did he make a tackle that stopped a first down. So, the tackles he made were what he was supposed to do, but late. It's like the MLB with 150+ tackles where 80% are after where they should have been made if he executed the play properly.

Playing slow and steady in the NFL is not playing well. Period. He just did his job and not very well. So, his ratio of missed tackles was very good. That is not the question you should be asking, despite PFF's ridiculous stats without analysis emphasis. Did his tackles make a difference or were they simply cleaning up and getting there late? Making a tackle on 3rd and 4, 7 yards down the field is not good. It's a first down. The question is why was he not there earlier?

Oh so he did not miss tackles and he was third on the team in tackles but you say he is slow and took weak angles. That is bull****. During the mid part of the season there were a whole bunch of stories about how well he was playing. He plays safety, how many tackles for a loss are you supposed to have? He is not a big physical guy and Denver rarely played him close to the LOS.

He was one of the leading tacklers on a top 3 defense but you say he took poor angels and was slow. ok :thumbs:

Rabb
03-01-2013, 10:34 AM
Are you really basing your argument off of stories?

This should be good.

TonyR
03-01-2013, 10:37 AM
I certainly understand the animosity towards Moore. He blew it in a big way on a very visible and memorable play that unfortunately we're never going to forget. But lots of guys blew it on lots of plays in that game. And that includes Champ Bailey, Peyton Manning, John Fox, Jack Del Rio, Chris Kuper, Matt Prater, and so on. Lots of blame to go around. Putting it all on one guy on one play is a bit silly.

If you haven't already done so, read this in its entirety. Even that one play can't be pinned entirely on Rahim Moore.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/a-second-helping-of-baltimores-70-yard-game-tying-td

CEH
03-01-2013, 10:59 AM
Let's just wait and see what happens. I thought at one time Elway said Timmy Try Hard would be the Broncos starting QB. take what Elway says at this time of year with a grain of salt. He just pumped up Omar Bolden at the combine so that tells me they are looking for a CB. Wonder why Lynch would be at the combine with Elway?

cutthemdown
03-04-2013, 02:07 AM
I have a lot of respect for Moore. He could have gotten out of that locker room without talking to the media, but he stood up like a man and took what was coming to him. He knows he ****ed up, and he manned up about it.

He's not a perfect player; in fact he's far from it. I'd love to have a shot at Reed or Woodson.

Old Dude would like you all to know he's never ever made a mistake.

It would be great to have an established safety to help Moore learn some sneaky tricks. Ed Reed would be fantastic. IMO Moore has not reached his ceiling. He came from UCLA whose program on defense not exactly churning out pros right now. I think he had a whole lot to learn these last couple years. Some guys ready to play, for others like Moore they get a bunch of welcome to the NFL moments.

Moore going into his 3rd yr which IMO for dbacks and WR is the yr to show that i have learned my lessons, I understand offenses and what qbs are trying to get me to do, and I am on the same page as them.

I bet Moore works his ass off, gets better, and comes back next yr getting more interceptions and making bigger plays.

DarkHorse30
03-04-2013, 09:10 AM
32119

crap

Mediator12
03-04-2013, 09:11 AM
Oh so he did not miss tackles and he was third on the team in tackles but you say he is slow and took weak angles. That is bull****. During the mid part of the season there were a whole bunch of stories about how well he was playing. He plays safety, how many tackles for a loss are you supposed to have? He is not a big physical guy and Denver rarely played him close to the LOS.

He was one of the leading tacklers on a top 3 defense but you say he took poor angels and was slow. ok :thumbs:

You know why, because I have the ability to grade film, which I have done, and done with another friend who is also a coach. Not some internet hack who is trying to make a market for services with pop stats. I do not have a website to sell you anything, but I know how to grade film.

The problem here, is it takes a dirtload of time to do this without the playcalls, I am talking upwards of 40 hours to do the season on just one guy. I did not have the time during the season, but have really used a lot of free time the last month to get an accurate view. I have not reviewed every play, but the ones I did were simply unimpressive for the reasons I stated above.

Mentally, he is slow to react and execute. Period. Whether its in coverage or run support. He has cleaned up his poor tackling however from his first year. The problem is he is not always in the right position to make tackles where they should be made. In cleaning up his poor tackling he is playing soft and not attacking the Runner. He is making sure he does not miss, versus doing his job in force or attacking downhill.

That is the difference.

Mediator12
03-04-2013, 09:46 AM
I certainly understand the animosity towards Moore. He blew it in a big way on a very visible and memorable play that unfortunately we're never going to forget. But lots of guys blew it on lots of plays in that game. And that includes Champ Bailey, Peyton Manning, John Fox, Jack Del Rio, Chris Kuper, Matt Prater, and so on. Lots of blame to go around. Putting it all on one guy on one play is a bit silly.

If you haven't already done so, read this in its entirety. Even that one play can't be pinned entirely on Rahim Moore.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/a-second-helping-of-baltimores-70-yard-game-tying-td

I am not sure where that article actually says anybody else screwed up either. It talks about WHY Moore screwed up, but never mentions anyone else?

Also, the author is absolutely wrong about the playcall in hindsight. The Ravens ran a four vertical clear out route to get extra space underneath for the Lone underneath receiver to get a first down. When you protect the deep part of the field with 3 versus four verticals you are simply screwed. Look at the middle frame and Leonard and Bruton are already leveraged against 2 deep routes and have to split them. Leonard is also screwed because he is Supposed to take the breakoff route inside or out in that play.

What happens is one on one deep and a jump ball wins. That with 2 safety's in a tough situation. Thank God Champ realized he need to be in close trail when he realized they were all going vertical. Otherwise Bruton was going to be severely stressed covering the deep seam and the outside.

I am truly amazed they played a 3 deep concept with the 3 rushers on that play. A simple cover 4 with the 2 CB's keeping the deep play outside off the safeties and them being able to focus on the inside quarters ensures that play is not as successful.

Not giving some blame to the playcall is a copout. Not giving Moore a hard time for NOT playing situational football is a copout. Being a good football player means understanding the situation and the route concepts. His sole Job there is to play deep to short in that situation, despite what IAOFM wants to say here. In fact, very rarely is the safety in that particualar Playcall supposed to play the underneath, and that is when the CB replaces him deep over the top after hinting he was going to underneath. That did not happen here, and its a copout to say otherwise.

I like IAOFM, they do a good job keeping people informed and trying to keep people from flying off the deep end emotionally. However, they occasionally forget to call it like it is to do just that. This explanation from Matt Bowen at NFP is actually more accurate and the guy actually ran this coverage as a safety in the NFL:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-Playoffs-revisited-Jones-TD-grab-vs-Broncos.html

Crushaholic
03-04-2013, 10:00 AM
As poorly as the Broncos played, as a whole, I'm not so sure that we would have been able to beat the Patriots. It would have been fun to try, though...:thumbsup:

Mediator12
03-04-2013, 10:40 AM
As poorly as the Broncos played, as a whole, I'm not so sure that we would have been able to beat the Patriots. It would have been fun to try, though...:thumbsup:

Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes! The last 2 home playoff losses were all about mistakes and giving things away, versus not being able to win.

A very discipined and strong team, failed to play well at home for some reason. They were killing that team at one point just like the first time, but for some damn reason we gave up huge plays on defense and a Pick 6 as well. 21 of their 38 points were because of Mistakes.

More than anything, I hope this wakes their asses up and makes them hungry this offseason. They can be a lot better with another whole offseason in the weight room, film room, and practice field.

No way to lose, in fact the worst way to lose IMHO. Knowing you had them beat, despite playing poorly, and then acting like you got paid to throw the game at the end. Still hurts for me and I did not even play ;D

TonyR
03-04-2013, 10:52 AM
I am not sure where that article...

I read at least 3-4 articles that disected the play, including the one you linked. I probably didn't pick the best one to make the point. But I'll stand by the point that while Moore deserves most of the blame for that play, he doesn't deserve all of it. And he certainly doesn't deserve all of the blame for the loss, which was my larger point.

I think the most interesting takeaway from the article I linked is that the Broncos weren't expecting a downfield play of that nature, and that there's good reason they weren't expecting it. But, as it turns out, their expecations didn't match what happened.

crush17
03-04-2013, 11:04 AM
You all do realize Moore was only in his 2nd season, right?

As if there is no way he could possibly improve... what the crap.

Mediator12
03-04-2013, 11:35 AM
I read at least 3-4 articles that disected the play, including the one you linked. I probably didn't pick the best one to make the point. But I'll stand by the point that while Moore deserves most of the blame for that play, he doesn't deserve all of it. And he certainly doesn't deserve all of the blame for the loss, which was my larger point.

I think the most interesting takeaway from the article I linked is that the Broncos weren't expected a downfield play of that nature, and that there's good reason they weren't expecting it. But, as it turns out, their expecations didn't match what happened.

I choose to differ greatly on that. As a playcaller in that situation, you have to protect from deep to short. That call, with eight in coverage is simply not wise. Especially since they were playing in a personnel package and formation designed to execute four verticals. I have been on record saying how well this defense played this year, but they made tremendous mistakes in every single aspect of that game including that playcall.

People love to criticize what they see, but they do not always understand why it really occurred. When you look at that play, it assumes with no timeouts BAL is going to simply be happy with a first down and then a spike. However, they had already demonstrated they were going to get vertical on this back end repeatedly during the game. They threw deep in that situation twice before for Long TD passes, because DEN playcalled underneath coverage and dared them to throw deep. Heck, they missed another sure TD because Flacco airmailed it in the Den Altitude missing a wide open Smith. As a playcaller, you need to be aware of that.

Instead, they dialed up a 5 under 3 deep look that if BAL called 4 verticals would stretch the safeties on the outide to make a play on a jump ball at best with one on one coverage. Ridiculous in that situation. Maybe if they had a time out and could afford to play it closer to the vest, but they had already PROVEN they would go deep if DEN played underneath.

My contention is why take the risk? That is what every playcaller has to determine on every play. Every playcall has risk, and why take the risk of getting stressed deep in that situation. Make a call where 4 verticals is not going to stress you deep and give 2 guys a chance to make a play by playing quarters coverage and take the risk underneath where they will waste time. It also helps you keep any catch in bounds by playing outside leverage and not inside like Moore mistakenly forgot to do in that coverage.

To me, the playcall seriously contributed to the mental errors by Moore. However, he should be playing the ball deep to short, and nowhere near what he did on that play.

Rohirrim
03-04-2013, 11:43 AM
I choose to differ greatly on that. As a playcaller in that situation, you have to protect from deep to short. That call, with eight in coverage is simply not wise. Especially since they were playing in a personnel package and formation designed to execute four verticals. I have been on record saying how well this defense played this year, but they made tremendous mistakes in every single aspect of that game including that playcall.

People love to criticize what they see, but they do not always understand why it really occurred. When you look at that play, it assumes with no timeouts BAL is going to simply be happy with a first down and then a spike. However, they had already demonstrated they were going to get vertical on this back end repeatedly during the game. They threw deep in that situation twice before for Long TD passes, because DEN playcalled underneath coverage and dared them to throw deep. Heck, they missed another sure TD because Flacco airmailed it in the Den Altitude missing a wide open Smith. As a playcaller, you need to be aware of that.

Instead, they dialed up a 5 under 3 deep look that if BAL called 4 verticals would stretch the safeties on the outide to make a play on a jump ball at best with one on one coverage. Ridiculous in that situation. Maybe if they had a time out and could afford to play it closer to the vest, but they had already PROVEN they would go deep if DEN played underneath.

My contention is why take the risk? That is what every playcaller has to determine on every play. Every playcall has risk, and why take the risk of getting stressed deep in that situation. Make a call where 4 verticals is not going to stress you deep and give 2 guys a chance to make a play by playing quarters coverage and take the risk underneath where they will waste time. It also helps you keep any catch in bounds by playing outside leverage and not inside like Moore mistakenly forgot to do in that coverage.

To me, the playcall seriously contributed to the mental errors by Moore. However, he should be playing the ball deep to short, and nowhere near what he did on that play.

So what's your opinion of the firing of the secondary coach, Milus? Does that solve the problem, or send a message, or is it one of those things where Moore's f'up is so bad, that somebody has to pay, but it's not going to be the player?

TonyR
03-04-2013, 12:21 PM
I choose to differ greatly on that...

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other because I agree with what you're saying. The Broncos should have been prepared for a deep play. They shouldn't have taken any chances. But both the defensive play call and the way the players reacted generally suggested they were expecting the Ravens to go shorter and/or more underneath for a 1st down rather than going down field. That was the start of the problem, and the Ravens reaction to it and execution of it, along with the way Moore and Carter played it, was the end of it.

Bacchus
03-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes! The last 2 home playoff losses were all about mistakes and giving things away, versus not being able to win.

A very discipined and strong team, failed to play well at home for some reason. They were killing that team at one point just like the first time, but for some damn reason we gave up huge plays on defense and a Pick 6 as well. 21 of their 38 points were because of Mistakes.


There was no pressure on the QB and Rice ran for over 100 yards. That is why a big pocket pushing, run stuffing DT would do wonders for the defense and MLB position and for the team as a whole.

Drek
03-04-2013, 01:04 PM
You all do realize Moore was only in his 2nd season, right?

As if there is no way he could possibly improve... what the crap.

Its great that he has time on his side, but that doesn't mean an alternative shouldn't be brought in, and an alternative better than Adams or Leonhard. Q. Carter, Moore, one solid FA to be the safety net, and a first three rounds draftee would be the ideal mix to fix our safety issues.

Rohirrim
03-04-2013, 01:29 PM
Maybe we're misunderstanding each other because I agree with what you're saying. The Broncos should have been prepared for a deep play. They shouldn't have taken any chances. But both the defensive play call and the way the players reacted generally suggested they were expecting the Ravens to go shorter and/or more underneath for a 1st down rather than going down field. That was the start of the problem, and the Ravens reaction to it and execution of it, along with the way Moore and Carter played it, was the end of it.

Frankly, if I'm the coach on one sideline and one of the Harbaugh Bros. is on the sideline opposite, I'm going to expect a wild ass gamble.

Cito Pelon
03-04-2013, 04:43 PM
I choose to differ greatly on that. As a playcaller in that situation, you have to protect from deep to short. That call, with eight in coverage is simply not wise. Especially since they were playing in a personnel package and formation designed to execute four verticals. I have been on record saying how well this defense played this year, but they made tremendous mistakes in every single aspect of that game including that playcall.

People love to criticize what they see, but they do not always understand why it really occurred. When you look at that play, it assumes with no timeouts BAL is going to simply be happy with a first down and then a spike. However, they had already demonstrated they were going to get vertical on this back end repeatedly during the game. They threw deep in that situation twice before for Long TD passes, because DEN playcalled underneath coverage and dared them to throw deep. Heck, they missed another sure TD because Flacco airmailed it in the Den Altitude missing a wide open Smith. As a playcaller, you need to be aware of that.

Instead, they dialed up a 5 under 3 deep look that if BAL called 4 verticals would stretch the safeties on the outide to make a play on a jump ball at best with one on one coverage. Ridiculous in that situation. Maybe if they had a time out and could afford to play it closer to the vest, but they had already PROVEN they would go deep if DEN played underneath.

My contention is why take the risk? That is what every playcaller has to determine on every play. Every playcall has risk, and why take the risk of getting stressed deep in that situation. Make a call where 4 verticals is not going to stress you deep and give 2 guys a chance to make a play by playing quarters coverage and take the risk underneath where they will waste time. It also helps you keep any catch in bounds by playing outside leverage and not inside like Moore mistakenly forgot to do in that coverage.

To me, the playcall seriously contributed to the mental errors by Moore. However, he should be playing the ball deep to short, and nowhere near what he did on that play.

Maybe Del Rio should have called for a timeout before the snap, or a more experienced guy other than Woodyard would have called a timeout. This kind of leads into having a 3-down MLB on the field rather than having Woodyard command the defense from his OLB position.