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Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 11:25 AM
"Please, No African American Nurses to care for [redacted] Baby per Dad's request. Thank you," read a note that was attached to the baby's clipboard.

A Michigan hospital is under fire after a lawsuit claims it fulfilled a father's request to have no black nurses look after his baby in the neonatal intensive care unit last fall.

A black nurse sued Hurley Medical Center for discrimination and violation of the state civil rights act after the nurse manager reassigned her because of the man's request for no black nurses, according to the complaint.

A hospital lawyer eventually told the staff this was illegal, but the lawsuit alleges that black nurses were intentionally not assigned to the baby for the remainder of its stay in the hospital over the next month.

So the question is, "What’s more important the rights of the Dad in the what he wants for his baby or the rights of the Nurse that was not assigned to care for the baby"?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/no-black-nurses-request-draws-lawsuit-173026275--abc-news-health.html

Requiem
02-20-2013, 11:27 AM
Sounds like Dad is a loser.

spdirty
02-20-2013, 11:29 AM
That hospital is gonna lose its ass for being stupid.

peacepipe
02-20-2013, 11:30 AM
Sounds like Dad is a loser.

Real big loser,regardless of what the dad wanted,the hospital violated the law accommodating him.

Bacchus
02-20-2013, 11:57 AM
I'd had nothing but black nurses take care of that child, kiss, the baby, and bathe the baby and give the baby miniature dreadlocks and a hoodie.

baja
02-20-2013, 12:26 PM
"Please, No African American Nurses to care for [redacted] Baby per Dad's request. Thank you," read a note that was attached to the baby's clipboard.

A Michigan hospital is under fire after a lawsuit claims it fulfilled a father's request to have no black nurses look after his baby in the neonatal intensive care unit last fall.

A black nurse sued Hurley Medical Center for discrimination and violation of the state civil rights act after the nurse manager reassigned her because of the man's request for no black nurses, according to the complaint.

A hospital lawyer eventually told the staff this was illegal, but the lawsuit alleges that black nurses were intentionally not assigned to the baby for the remainder of its stay in the hospital over the next month.

So the question is, "What’s more important the rights of the Dad in the what he wants for his baby or the rights of the Nurse that was not assigned to care for the baby"?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/no-black-nurses-request-draws-lawsuit-173026275--abc-news-health.html


Is this a serious question???

" I don't want those darkies using my bathroom in my Diner" Mississippi restaurant owner.

Who's rights do you think won out?

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 12:46 PM
Is this a serious question???

" I don't want those darkies using my bathroom in my Diner" Mississippi restaurant owner.

Who's rights do you think won out?

Sure it's a serious question, I don't agree with the guy but should he have the right to make all decisions with regards to the care of his child?

If you go to the hospital, you have the right to pick to pick what Doctor will treat your child and you don't have to give a reason why.

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 12:54 PM
That hospital is gonna lose its ass for being stupid.

What is the stupid mistake worth in dollars? No pay was taken from the black nurse, she wasn't sent home and was only reassigned to other duties.

Should this nurse walk away from the hospital with millions of dollars so she will never have to work again?

TonyR
02-20-2013, 12:57 PM
Sure it's a serious question, I don't agree with the guy but should he have the right to make all decisions with regards to the care of his child?

If you go to the hospital, you have the right to pick to pick what Doctor will treat your child and you don't have to give a reason why.

Shouldn't you be celebrating the fact that the guy got his way? He was allowed to be an ignorant, racist pig. Just how you clearly like it. So why aren't you happy?

peacepipe
02-20-2013, 01:21 PM
What is the stupid mistake worth in dollars? No pay was taken from the black nurse, she wasn't sent home and was only reassigned to other duties.

Should this nurse walk away from the hospital with millions of dollars so she will never have to work again?
Dollars? 50,000+ just in lawyer fees to say the least.

BTW,what makes you think she'll get millions?

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 01:24 PM
Shouldn't you be celebrating the fact that the guy got his way? He was allowed to be an ignorant, racist pig. Just how you clearly like it. So why aren't you happy?

See how you can't have a simple exchange of ideas with out name calling ...... I see you are one of those "internet tough guys". Hilarious!

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 01:29 PM
Dollars? 50,000+ just in lawyer fees to say the least.

BTW,what makes you think she'll get millions?

I didn't say she would get millions, I was referring to Spdirty’s comment that the hospital was going to loose their ass. What does lose their ass mean in a dollar amount? What's fair?

TonyR
02-20-2013, 01:33 PM
See how you can't have a simple exchange of ideas with out name calling ......

The shoe didn't fit? The guy wasn't an ignorant, racist pig? You disagree? Pleae explain. Exchange some ideas with us.

TonyR
02-20-2013, 01:35 PM
...the hospital...

The hospital should have denied the request. They should have explained that they were an equal opportunity employer and would not remove a nurse from her/his assignment based on race. That was their policy. If the patient didn't like this policy they were free to choose a different hospital.

peacepipe
02-20-2013, 01:50 PM
I didn't say she would get millions, I was referring to Spdirty’s comment that the hospital was going to loose their ass. What does lose their ass mean in a dollar amount? What's fair?

Whatever the amt is,it is going to be a lot more than the 0 amt they would've paid if they had simply told the guy no.

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 01:51 PM
The shoe didn't fit? The guy wasn't an ignorant, racist pig? You disagree? Pleae explain. Exchange some ideas with us.

I said in an earlier post I didn't agree with the guy but then you post .......
"He was allowed to be an ignorant, racist pig. Just how you clearly like it".

So the way I see it you were calling me an ignorant, racist pig" so again I say that you can't have a simple exchange of ideas without name-calling and the shoe does fit you well.

Now you need to go lay down somewhere and let your pups suck and don't bother me with your dribble.

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 02:10 PM
The hospital should have denied the request. They should have explained that they were an equal opportunity employer and would not remove a nurse from her/his assignment based on race. That was their policy. If the patient didn't like this policy they were free to choose a different hospital.

The a-hole dad wasn't the patient, if the hospital turned away the baby and something happen to the baby, well now we are talking a law suite in the millions.

BroncoBeavis
02-20-2013, 02:23 PM
The a-hole dad wasn't the patient, if the hospital turned away the baby and something happen to the baby, well now we are talking a law suite in the millions.

Yeah, it's pretty hilarious that these guys think a hospital would be free to say "Oh yeah! Well you take your effing skinhead spawn and get the eff out!" and kick them both out on the curb.

Definitely a sticky situation. Glad it wasn't me who had to figure out what to do.

houghtam
02-20-2013, 03:08 PM
Yeah, it's pretty hilarious that these guys think a hospital would be free to say "Oh yeah! Well you take your effing skinhead spawn and get the eff out!" and kick them both out on the curb.

Definitely a sticky situation. Glad it wasn't me who had to figure out what to do.

It's not a sticky situation at all if you know anything about employment law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_occupational_qualifications

It's not refusal of service to say we cannot legally comply with your request. Race is not protected under BFOQ, and customer satisfaction is not a legitimate (read: legally protected) reason to comply with this request.

There are no "patient's rights" where race is concerned. This hospital is in huge trouble.

BroncoBeavis
02-20-2013, 03:16 PM
It's not a sticky situation at all if you know anything about employment law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_occupational_qualifications

It's not refusal of service to say we cannot legally comply with your request. Race is not protected under BFOQ, and customer satisfaction is not a legitimate (read: legally protected) reason to comply with this request.

There are no "patient's rights" where race is concerned. This hospital is in huge trouble.

Technically, you're right. But as a supervisor it's a tough call to send your staff into a predeterminedly ugly situation like that. They can't stop the guy from being racist, so I can see why a supervisor might err on the side of shielding the staff from it rather than bring it to full-blown confrontation. If the hospital effectively tells that story, it's hard to imagine the "damages" amounting to much. I wish the courts would force plaintiffs to just accept an apology sometimes. The world would be a better place.

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 03:18 PM
It's not a sticky situation at all if you know anything about employment law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_occupational_qualifications

It's not refusal of service to say we cannot legally comply with your request. Race is not protected under BFOQ, and customer satisfaction is not a legitimate (read: legally protected) reason to comply with this request.

There are no "patient's rights" where race is concerned. This hospital is in huge trouble.

So is it enough for the hospital to fire all personnel that had any involvement with this situation and then offer the nurse an apology at an open press conference for all to see.

Or on the other hand is the only thing that will make this right is to award the nurse with a large amount of cash?

houghtam
02-20-2013, 03:24 PM
Technically, you're right. But as a supervisor it's a tough call to send your staff into a predeterminedly ugly situation like that. They can't stop the guy from being racist, so I can see why a supervisor might err on the side of shielding the staff from it rather than bring it to full-blown confrontation. If the hospital effectively tells that story, it's hard to imagine the "damages" amounting to much. I wish the courts would force plaintiffs to just accept an apology sometimes. The world would be a better place.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. At some point, the management needs to take responsibility for their employees, and if this supervisor was unaware of the law, it's on the hospital. Personally, I always made sure my supervisors were knowledgeable of all applicable laws because I know that it not only covers their ass, it covers mine and my company's as well.

What the supervisor should have done is tell the father that they were unable to comply with his request per federal law, and that he was welcome to seek treatment somewhere that might be able to follow his request. Then the supervisor should have gone to their immediate supervisor and reported the situation.

How a request like this in this day and age wouldn't cause anyone to go to their supervisor for help is beyond me.

It doesn't matter how effectively the hospital tells the story, the damages are going to be huge, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the millions. I can say that if I were in that situation, a simple "sorry we didn't know the laws" wouldn't be enough, and I have a hard time believing the courts won't find the same.

BroncoBeavis
02-20-2013, 03:30 PM
Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. At some point, the management needs to take responsibility for their employees, and if this supervisor was unaware of the law, it's on the hospital. Personally, I always made sure my supervisors were knowledgeable of all applicable laws because I know that it not only covers their ass, it covers mine and my company's as well.

What the supervisor should have done is tell the father that they were unable to comply with his request per federal law, and that he was welcome to seek treatment somewhere that might be able to follow his request. Then the supervisor should have gone to their immediate supervisor and reported the situation.

How a request like this in this day and age wouldn't cause anyone to go to their supervisor for help is beyond me.

It doesn't matter how effectively the hospital tells the story, the damages are going to be huge, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the millions. I can say that if I were in that situation, a simple "sorry we didn't know the laws" wouldn't be enough, and I have a hard time believing the courts won't find the same.

Say what you want, but in the real world it was just a no win situation. If they sent the nurse in there with the guy and he said anything offensive, she'd be suing them for subjecting her to a known hostile working environment. The biggest shame is that people feel the need to try to cash in on these kinds of problems. It's part of life. Everyone learns from it, you move on.

houghtam
02-20-2013, 03:39 PM
So is it enough for the hospital to fire all personnel that had any involvement with this situation and then offer the nurse an apology at an open press conference for all to see.

Or on the other hand is the only thing that will make this right is to award the nurse with a large amount of cash?

To my knowledge, the plaintiff doesn't have a whole lot to do with the amount of damages awarded once it goes to trial, so as far as what would be enough for the courts to decide, it's not really my place to decide.

As far as a settlement goes, I wouldn't settle for anything less than:

- Formal public apology and explanation
- Disciplinary action for those involved
- Establishment of education program on applicable employment law for all employees involved
- Wages from now until retirement age
- Continued health benefits
- Accrued retirement time and benefits resulting thereof during retirement

houghtam
02-20-2013, 03:46 PM
Say what you want, but in the real world it was just a no win situation. If they sent the nurse in there with the guy and he said anything offensive, she'd be suing them for subjecting her to a known hostile working environment. The biggest shame is that people feel the need to try to cash in on these kinds of problems. It's part of life. Everyone learns from it, you move on.

Number one, since when is following federal law not "the real world"? How is it somehow the nurse's fault that her boss wasn't aware she couldn't discriminate?

Number two, really? The biggest shame in a situation where a supervisor discriminates based on race is that the affected nurse is likely to receive remuneration? Have you ever worked in an environment where you were the direct cause of your supervisor's dismissal? My guess is no.

Number three, it's not even a no-win situation. As a supervisor, my decision would have been based on two choices: 1) I comply with the patient and DEFINITELY break the law, or 2) I comply with the law and MAYBE the nurse gets offended. Additionally, I would have confronted the nurse and explained the situation, as well as contacted my immediate supervisor. Most times I would bet the nurse would simply recuse herself from the situation...I wouldn't force her to go in there, so doing so would be entirely her choice. The supervisor (and the hospital) were simply negligent on educating their staff and taking the appropriate action.

cutthemdown
02-20-2013, 05:42 PM
The rights of the nurses are vastly more important then a stupid dad who is a racist. You have no rights to things that are illegal, like discrimination.

cutthemdown
02-20-2013, 05:44 PM
As a supervisor i would tell the black nurses his request, that they may have to deal with a troublesome dad, then send them out to be professionals and do their jobs. Then I would get a hospital social worker on scene and inform him/her of the situation. Hospitals are equiped and trained to handle stuff like this.

baja
02-20-2013, 05:54 PM
Sure it's a serious question, I don't agree with the guy but should he have the right to make all decisions with regards to the care of his child?

If you go to the hospital, you have the right to pick to pick what Doctor will treat your child and you don't have to give a reason why.

The request specifically prevents a entire group of professionals from preforming their jobs based on racial origin.

How do you not see that is wrong?

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 07:42 PM
The request specifically prevents a entire group of professionals from preforming their jobs based on racial origin.

How do you not see that is wrong?

Sober up and read the thread, I didn't say I thought it was right. I posed a question for discussion nothing more and nothing less.

Now I realize where you live you get a Mexican doctor and Mexican nurse so why do you care anyway.

txtebow
02-20-2013, 07:48 PM
I just Googled 'hot black nurses' and to my disappointment and surprise there were NONE in the google image search....that is grounds enough in my book to only request asian,latino or caucasian nurses

http://www.google.com/search?q=hot+black+nurses&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=oJglUYLUA6qW2QWj_oGQCQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=569

Play2win
02-20-2013, 08:15 PM
I would want my son to only have hot asian nurses taking care of him. And if I'm footing the bill, it better well MF'n happen. :)

BroncoBeavis
02-20-2013, 08:24 PM
Number one, since when is following federal law not "the real world"?

LOL

http://seattletimes.com/html/homegarden/2009286944_zhom01toysafety.html

LOL

baja
02-20-2013, 08:34 PM
Sober up and read the thread, I didn't say I thought it was right. I posed a question for discussion nothing more and nothing less.

Now I realize where you live you get a Mexican doctor and Mexican nurse so why do you care anyway.

The amazing part is you don't even know what a bigot you are while it shouts out through your words to everyone who isn't.

houghtam
02-20-2013, 08:39 PM
LOL

http://seattletimes.com/html/homegarden/2009286944_zhom01toysafety.html

LOL

You're comparing the garage sale cottage industry to a hospital... One whose own lawyers were the ones to catch the problem.

How unbelievably stupid you look.

BroncoBeavis
02-20-2013, 08:47 PM
You're comparing the garage sale cottage industry to a hospital... One whose own lawyers were the ones to catch the problem.

How unbelievably stupid you look.

No, I'm pointing out that Federal Law can be just as retarded as your average proggy.

The nurse wasn't sent home. Didn't miss any pay. The employer apologized for any possible offense taken (even though the only real offense anyone could take was from the client.) But apparently your view of Federal Law is that someone should get rich every time an administrative mistake occurs if it happens to somehow brush up against the sacred race cow.

Would you feel the same way if a patient asked for no Male nurses? (hint: it happens all the time)

spdirty
02-20-2013, 08:58 PM
What is the stupid mistake worth in dollars? No pay was taken from the black nurse, she wasn't sent home and was only reassigned to other duties.

Should this nurse walk away from the hospital with millions of dollars so she will never have to work again?

It has to do with a stupid ass lack of basic common sense mistake committed by the hospital that will likely cost them a ton of money. While I think an apology could/should be enough, it won't happen in the world we live in today.

The world we live in today is a CYA society. If you are in a postition like this hospital is, you have to cover your ass at all times. If you don't your ass is toast. To me it isn't about should the nurse get millions. It's about when this guy made this unlawful request, should the hospital have honored that request, or covered their asses by telling the guy to **** off? This hospital should have known better.

spdirty
02-20-2013, 09:08 PM
Would you feel the same way if a patient asked for no Male nurses? (hint: it happens all the time)

Holy shlt man. Not meaning to change the subject but this reminds me of when I had my surgery a couple years ago.

I had this female nurse and she was great. Sweet sweet lady. And she was there the first 5 days I was recovering. But they had to put a catheter in me. Now I am the type of guy that would choose death over having to put that in me on a regular basis. But they said there was no choice. And I was flat out freaked out. So what I did was asked for the highest dosage of pain killers they could give me. Then I requested a male nurse put the catheter in, my line of thinking being if a guy had to stick a tube up my peehole, he would be much more sensitive to my situation than a woman. They honored this request, and I was so doped up anyway that I didn't feel a thing. Just being a big baby.

Now my question is, if this female nurse wanted to, could she sue the hospital for gender discrimination?

houghtam
02-20-2013, 09:10 PM
No, I'm pointing out that Federal Law can be just as retarded as your average proggy.

The nurse wasn't sent home. Didn't miss any pay. The employer apologized for any possible offense taken (even though the only real offense anyone could take was from the client.) But apparently your view of Federal Law is that someone should get rich every time an administrative mistake occurs if it happens to somehow brush up against the sacred race cow.

Would you feel the same way if a patient asked for no Male nurses? (hint: it happens all the time)

Did you even read the BFOQ? Here, I'll edit the big legalese paragraph so you can read it more easily.

t shall not be an unlawful employment practice (That means "it's okay") for an employer to hire and employ employees, for an employment agency to classify, or refer for employment any individual, for a labor organization to classify its membership or to classify or refer for employment any individual, or for an employer, labor organization, or joint labor-management committee controlling apprenticeship or other training or retraining programs to admit or employ any individual in any such program, on the basis of his religion, sex, or national origin in those certain instances where religion, sex, or national origin is a bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise…

Legally, it is reasonable for a person of a certain gender to request a caregiver of a certain gender. The Playboy mansion doesn't need to hire guys dressed in bunny suits, nor does Hooters need to hire men in tight orange shorts.

Customer preference can "'be taken into account only when it is based on the company's inability to perform the primary function or service it offers,' that is, where sex or sex appeal is itself the dominant service provided."

Also explicitly: While religion, sex, or national origin may be considered a bona fide occupational qualification in narrow contexts, race can never be a BFOQ.



Now, as far as the nurse is concerned, a case can and will be made...IF (big if) it even goes to trial that, particularly if there is any disciplinary action involved with her superiors, that it will create a hostile work environment for the nurse that was affected. As I stated, you've probably never been the reason one of your bosses got disciplined. That case is made all the time in these types of situations, and it's a legitimate concern. Even if her supervisor gets fired, the argument will be made that there may be animosity from fellow employees who liked the boss, hospital executives who want to get even for costing them money...happens all the time, even with the whistleblower laws.

Additionally, if she were to leave the hospital, any potential employer would ask her why, after 15 years of being employed by this hospital, she's all the sudden no longer employed, not to mention we're talking about Flint, MI here...not many places else to go.

And finally, do you really chalk this up to an "administrative mistake"? An administrative mistake is not signing a form correctly. Not training your employees on federal law and its ramifications on your job is negligence, pure and simple.

But whatever, I'm still laughing at your absurd statement that the [I]worst thing to come out of a situation where an employee was discriminated against is that she will get compensated for it.

Pony Boy
02-20-2013, 09:14 PM
The amazing part is you don't even know what a bigot you are while it shouts out through your words to everyone who isn't.

What happened did you get a little too much sand in your panties today ......... it's ok just remember alcohol is you friend.

houghtam
02-20-2013, 09:17 PM
What happened did you get a little too much sand in your panties today ......... it's ok just remember alcohol is you friend.

Do you really blame baja for calling the person a bigot who said "black on black violence is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about"...THEN started a thread about a black nurse being discriminated against and asking the question "what about the rights of the white supremicist?"

I sure don't. I mean, you may not be...you just post like one.

lonestar
02-20-2013, 10:15 PM
Shouldn't you be celebrating the fact that the guy got his way? He was allowed to be an ignorant, racist pig. Just how you clearly like it. So why aren't you happy?

RIF

Originally Posted by Pony Boy
Sure it's a serious question, I don't agree with the guy but should he have the right to make all decisions with regards to the care of his child?

If you go to the hospital, you have the right to pick to pick what Doctor will treat your child and you don't have to give a reason why.

txtebow
02-21-2013, 06:02 AM
Obviously, this was a ridiculous request being made by a person who lacks tact...Now here's how to do it on the sly ...step 1) black nurse walks in step 2) you go speak to the nursing supervisor/hospital liason that you don't like her "bed manner" 3) hot nurse walks in or 4) repeat step 2............You're welcome.

TonyR
02-21-2013, 06:23 AM
Do you really blame baja for calling the person a bigot who said "black on black violence is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about"...THEN started a thread about a black nurse being discriminated against and asking the question "what about the rights of the white supremicist?"

I sure don't. I mean, you may not be...you just post like one.

LOL Yup. And I'm waiting for the "but, but, but, I have a lot of black friends" defense.

DenverBrit
02-21-2013, 07:43 AM
Is there something wrong with that article? This was excluded by the poster and changes the story entirely.

From the link.

"The father was informed that his request could not be granted, and as a result, all nurses remained available to care for his baby," Hurley CEO Melany Gavulic said, according to WJRT. "We appreciate the community's concern and involvement today, as we publicly clarify the facts of this case. The medical center looks forward to a quick and amicable resolution."

Pony Boy
02-21-2013, 07:54 AM
Do you really blame baja for calling the person a bigot who said "black on black violence is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about"...THEN started a thread about a black nurse being discriminated against and asking the question "what about the rights of the white supremicist?"

I sure don't. I mean, you may not be...you just post like one.

Fist of all I didn't start that thread, all I said was "if you are going to talk about gun violence, you must be willing to discuss "the elephant in the room" that everyone chooses to ignore. No one wants to talk about those facts because it's politically incorrect. I also stated it should be up to the blacks to take steps to solve that problem on their own in the communities where the violence is a way of life. The same communities that you wouldn't take your family on a drive through. You choose to ignore the elephant and bush it off as a socioeconomic problem.

Every citizen has rights and whether you agree or not that includes a "white supremist" or a "black gang-banger". Go back and look at the "Ruby Ridge" fiasco when the rights of a so-called "white supremist" were trampled on by the U.S. government. They killed his wife, 14-year-old son and even his dog all because he sawed off the barrel of a 12-gauge shotgun and sold it to an undercover FBI agent.

.

Pony Boy
02-21-2013, 07:59 AM
LOL Yup. And I'm waiting for the "but, but, but, I have a lot of black friends" defense.

but, but, but since I'm not white and I'm a minority it's hard for me to be a "white Supremist" ...........

baja
02-21-2013, 09:59 AM
Fist of all I didn't start that thread, all I said was "if you are going to talk about gun violence, you must be willing to discuss "the elephant in the room" that everyone chooses to ignore. No one wants to talk about those facts because it's politically incorrect. I also stated it should be up to the blacks to take steps to solve that problem on their own in the communities where the violence is a way of life. The same communities that you wouldn't take your family on a drive through. You choose to ignore the elephant and bush it off as a socioeconomic problem.

Every citizen has rights and whether you agree or not that includes a "white supremist" or a "black gang-banger". Go back and look at the "Ruby Ridge" fiasco when the rights of a so-called "white supremist" were trampled on by the U.S. government. They killed his wife, 14-year-old son and even his dog all because he sawed off the barrel of a 12-gauge shotgun and sold it to an undercover FBI agent.

.

BTW I agree with you that Black on Black violence is a very real issue, nobody could deny that but tell me if it is not a socioeconomic problem what the underling issue that is the problem.

Pony Boy
02-21-2013, 10:16 AM
BTW I agree with you that Black on Black violence is a very real issue, nobody could deny that but tell me if it is not a socioeconomic problem what the underling issue that is the problem.

I don't think it's a socioeconomic problem that would disappear if the economic conditions of the inner city suddenly became better. The high rolling gangster types with all the money, cars and bling still make gun possession as a priority in life. Look at all the NFL players that have problems related to firearms and it's not due to a socioeconomic problem.

Black on Black violence is something that needs to be taken head on by the black community itself and passing new gun laws for the rest of the nation is not the answer.

TonyR
02-21-2013, 10:41 AM
I don't think it's a socioeconomic problem that would disappear if the economic conditions of the inner city suddenly became better. The high rolling gangster types with all the money, cars and bling still make gun possession as a priority in life. Look at all the NFL players that have problems related to firearms and it's not due to a socioeconomic problem.

You clearly don't even have a rudimentary understanding of what a "socioeconomic problem" is. The gangster/money/car/bling/gun culture you mention exists precisely because of socioeconomic issues! Those are the guys that have, or are perceived to have, the power and money amongst the powerless and moneyless. You just really don't have a clue here, although I do agree that the problems wouldn't "disappear" overnight.

Pony Boy
02-21-2013, 11:05 AM
You clearly don't even have a rudimentary understanding of what a "socioeconomic problem" is. The gangster/money/car/bling/gun culture you mention exists precisely because of socioeconomic issues! Those are the guys that have, or are perceived to have, the power and money amongst the powerless and moneyless. You just really don't have a clue here, although I do agree that the problems wouldn't "disappear" overnight.

No I don't think you understand, do think if manufacturing and industry are brought back to the inner cities anything will change? The population that existed in the inner city that depended on the manufacturing industry all moved out to the suburbs. The lawless people that exist there filled the void and they need to be disarmed by their own citizens not by rest of the country.

lonestar
02-21-2013, 12:00 PM
Fist of all I didn't start that thread, all I said was "if you are going to talk about gun violence, you must be willing to discuss "the elephant in the room" that everyone chooses to ignore. No one wants to talk about those facts because it's politically incorrect. I also stated it should be up to the blacks to take steps to solve that problem on their own in the communities where the violence is a way of life. The same communities that you wouldn't take your family on a drive through. You choose to ignore the elephant and bush it off as a socioeconomic problem.

Every citizen has rights and whether you agree or not that includes a "white supremist" or a "black gang-banger". Go back and look at the "Ruby Ridge" fiasco when the rights of a so-called "white supremist" were trampled on by the U.S. government. They killed his wife, 14-year-old son and even his dog all because he sawed off the barrel of a 12-gauge shotgun and sold it to an undercover FBI agent.

.

Just one more unrefutable post. Yet the FLL will try..

Wanna bet they think your an angry old white guy, living with a bunch of other of the same persuasion.

The FLL will be back with the name calling any second now.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2013, 12:35 PM
BTW I agree with you that Black on Black violence is a very real issue, nobody could deny that but tell me if it is not a socioeconomic problem what the underling issue that is the problem.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G8-6eAYHOBE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2013, 12:45 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YtOL_JQFO80" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dr. Broncenstein
02-21-2013, 12:50 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/D0OioI_-_Jk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bacchus
02-21-2013, 12:52 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WKohFWcgL1o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This song is not about black people, because black people are incapable of farting.

nyuk nyuk
02-21-2013, 03:46 PM
This is garbage. Patients have the right to request who they wish. Some request no males. I only choose female doctors for my primary care - should I be brought up on charges?!

nyuk nyuk
02-21-2013, 03:47 PM
The rights of the nurses are vastly more important then a stupid dad who is a racist. You have no rights to things that are illegal, like discrimination.

You're an idiot. You've never worked in a hospital. You know nothing.

nyuk nyuk
02-21-2013, 03:48 PM
Real big loser,regardless of what the dad wanted,the hospital violated the law accommodating him.

Prove it.

houghtam
02-21-2013, 06:37 PM
Prove it.

You clearly haven't read the thread. Race is not protected under BFOQ. Sex is.

You're clearly the one here who doesn't have a ****ing clue.

As usual.

nyuk nyuk
02-21-2013, 07:26 PM
You clearly haven't read the thread. Race is not protected under BFOQ. Sex is.

You're clearly the one here who doesn't have a ****ing clue.

As usual.

I've worked in hospitals for years - how about yourself?

W*GS
02-21-2013, 07:29 PM
I've worked in hospitals for years - how about yourself?

Cleaning used bedpans with your tongue (until you were kicked out) doesn't count as practical experience.

baja
02-21-2013, 07:48 PM
I've worked in hospitals for years - how about yourself?

I got ya beat I stayed at a Holiday Inn once.

houghtam
02-21-2013, 08:23 PM
I've worked in hospitals for years - how about yourself?

Great! The supervisor that violated federal law probably worked for a hospital for many years, too!

But, alas, ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violation of the law.

I recommend you educate yourself about how employment law is applicable to your own (albeit claimed) line of work. Just might save your job someday.

nyuk nyuk
02-21-2013, 08:34 PM
LMFAO.

Ad hominem, retardo speculation, and armchair quarterbacking from clowns that never worked in a hospital.

Yes, that's what I thought.

So you actually think that if there is a demented patient, for example, who lobs racial invectives at people of other races, the staff will ignore it and put just anyone in there?

That's just another example of where they don't.

nyuk nyuk
02-21-2013, 08:38 PM
I think the next time a patient hurls racial invective at me or flashes me his family jewels, I'll go suck my thumb and sue.

Derp!

People fire their nurses and doctors all the time, bros.

houghtam
02-21-2013, 09:00 PM
LMFAO.

Ad hominem, retardo speculation, and armchair quarterbacking from clowns that never worked in a hospital.

Yes, that's what I thought.

So you actually think that if there is a demented patient, for example, who lobs racial invectives at people of other races, the staff will ignore it and put just anyone in there?

That's just another example of where they don't.

You can say that you work in a hospital all you want. It may even be true, for all anyone knows. It does not change the fact that, as applicable to that profession, gender is considered an acceptable qualification.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=gender+protected+bfoq+nurse&oq=gender+protected+bfoq+nurse&gs_l=hp.3...109646.109646.1.110392.1.1.0.0.0.0.106 .106.0j1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.4.psy-ab.AJUKExC8yHg&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42768644,d.aWM&fp=91c3d795106f22b5&biw=1024&bih=629

Title VII says:

It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin

However, as we know, BFOQ is a defense available under Section 703 of Title VII:

Privacy defenses have been upheld in instances where employers require custodians to be the same sex as those in the facility being cleaned, nurses and care providers in hospitals and nursing homes to be of the same sex as patients being assisted, and labor and delivery nurses to be female.63 Courts are often lenient in permitting BFOQs in health care situations.64 In Fesel v. Masonic Home of Delaware, Inc., for example, a court considered sex-based hiring permissible, finding that being a woman was a legitimate BFOQ for an orderly since the patients would not consent to male workers bathing them or providing any other intimate-contact services.

So what happened is they passed the Civil Rights Act, and then proceeded to make exceptions in certain cases where a person's ability to perform their job may be hindered by certain characteristics (e.g. mandatory retirement ages for bus drivers and pilots due to safety concerns). Gender is one of those qualifications in the case of hospitals. Race is not.

You.

Have.

No.

****ing.

Clue.

:thanku:

Requiem
02-21-2013, 09:03 PM
Houghtam,

Thanks for sharing this good news. It is good to be educated. I feel like a winner.

cutthemdown
02-21-2013, 09:34 PM
I think the next time a patient hurls racial invective at me or flashes me his family jewels, I'll go suck my thumb and sue.

Derp!

People fire their nurses and doctors all the time, bros.

You can refuse service from a nurse until they give you a new one, but you can't really fire a nurse. A doctor you could choose not to see but a hospital can't let patients make choices based on race.

Sure a person can refuse to treated and most hospitals would probably just accomadate the person.

But if a hospital said you can't work today because the patients say they don't want any black nurses, umm yeah they will be getting sued. If they said hey this patient a bigot racist, we were thinking we would just have you not be his nurse for safety reason etc, that would probably be ok. Really this is a stupid issue to argue when we have some really good ones we could be talking about.

houghtam
02-21-2013, 09:55 PM
You can refuse service from a nurse until they give you a new one, but you can't really fire a nurse. A doctor you could choose not to see but a hospital can't let patients make choices based on race.

Sure a person can refuse to treated and most hospitals would probably just accomadate the person.

But if a hospital said you can't work today because the patients say they don't want any black nurses, umm yeah they will be getting sued. If they said hey this patient a bigot racist, we were thinking we would just have you not be his nurse for safety reason etc, that would probably be ok. Really this is a stupid issue to argue when we have some really good ones we could be talking about.

And that's exactly what the supervisor should and could have done. Much of law is decided by what a reasonable person would do in any given situation. Had the supervisor taken the tack of apprising the black nurse of the situation and allowing her to make the decision for herself whether to work with the man or not, there's very little chance a lawsuit would hold up in court, because a reasonable employee knows that. The hospital cannot refuse service, so the patient is there whether she likes it or not. If, after being warned about the father, she still chose to brave that situation, the hospital would then likely be released from liability.

If she also didn't notify her supervisors, or her supervisors didn't know the law either. If so, that's negligence, and one of the reasons we have laws like this. And I suppose a hospital being able to tell a sack of **** like that father that they won't comply with racism is probably another.

Now, another poster brought up the fact that the hospital released a statement about what actually happened, and in the context of the article, I basically took it as, the request was made, granted, the nurse wasn't told, at some point the lawyer for the hospital found out and put the kibosh on it, and then they released that statement. I can't imagine she would e suing if nothing actually happened. If so, well then THAT is a frivolous lawsuit.

cutthemdown
02-21-2013, 11:05 PM
And that's exactly what the supervisor should and could have done. Much of law is decided by what a reasonable person would do in any given situation. Had the supervisor taken the tack of apprising the black nurse of the situation and allowing her to make the decision for herself whether to work with the man or not, there's very little chance a lawsuit would hold up in court, because a reasonable employee knows that. The hospital cannot refuse service, so the patient is there whether she likes it or not. If, after being warned about the father, she still chose to brave that situation, the hospital would then likely be released from liability.

If she also didn't notify her supervisors, or her supervisors didn't know the law either. If so, that's negligence, and one of the reasons we have laws like this. And I suppose a hospital being able to tell a sack of **** like that father that they won't comply with racism is probably another.

Now, another poster brought up the fact that the hospital released a statement about what actually happened, and in the context of the article, I basically took it as, the request was made, granted, the nurse wasn't told, at some point the lawyer for the hospital found out and put the kibosh on it, and then they released that statement. I can't imagine she would e suing if nothing actually happened. If so, well then THAT is a frivolous lawsuit.

She still doesn't have a good lawsuit. Lawsuits are determined by damages and from what I gather she didn't lose her job or reputation. I don't see any big damages here from that standpoint.

houghtam
02-22-2013, 03:38 AM
She still doesn't have a good lawsuit. Lawsuits are determined by damages and from what I gather she didn't lose her job or reputation. I don't see any big damages here from that standpoint.

http://www.theemploymentlawyers.com/Articles/Emotional%20distress%20damages.htm

Read these cases and then tell me she doesn't have a strong legal argument for remuneration.

Obviously things will change as facts come out. But chances are there will just be some sort of settlement.

Be interesting to see how much. I say it will be hefty.

BroncoBeavis
02-22-2013, 07:45 AM
It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin

Well, if you want to get very technical, you could say the "conditions" of employment were somewhat altered in one single situation. In every other respect, nothing about the terms of employment changed. The problem is that the complaint has to navigate a very narrow window for "damages."

The nurse would essentially have to make the argument that she was harmed by not being exposed to a racist client, or suffered serious psychological harm from having a supervisor dare consider not wanting to expose certain staff to one.

Thin at best. There's a case there, but it's not much. It will settle, but I'm sure the terms won't be disclosed when it is.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-22-2013, 07:55 AM
Don't worry fellas. The lawyers will get paid regardless of the result. Notice that the racist patient who started the ball rolling won't be sued.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-22-2013, 08:00 AM
Also notice the nursing supervisor who made the decision to comply with racist patient won't be sued.

Pony Boy
02-22-2013, 08:25 AM
Also notice the nursing supervisor who made the decision to comply with racist patient won't be sued.

Yep, not looking for what's right or wrong, just looking for the deep pockets.

BroncoBeavis
02-22-2013, 08:28 AM
Yep, not looking for what's right or wrong, just looking for the deep pockets.

Yeah, if this happened at some independent Denny's franchise (and it probably does all the time) there would be no lawsuit.

Healthcare = Pockets. Pockets = Litigation. Litigation=Higher Prices for All.

Bacchus
02-22-2013, 10:11 AM
I wanna sue somebody!!!!

Dr. Broncenstein
02-22-2013, 10:14 AM
I wanna sue somebody!!!!

The new American Dream.

cutthemdown
02-22-2013, 10:33 AM
http://www.theemploymentlawyers.com/Articles/Emotional%20distress%20damages.htm

Read these cases and then tell me she doesn't have a strong legal argument for remuneration.

Obviously things will change as facts come out. But chances are there will just be some sort of settlement.

Be interesting to see how much. I say it will be hefty.

You follow it and let us know ok? Sure she may get 50 grand or something who knows but in Calif they have gotten a little tighter with judgements since the late 90's where most of your examples came from.

gunns
02-22-2013, 11:30 AM
The hospital should have denied the request. They should have explained that they were an equal opportunity employer and would not remove a nurse from her/his assignment based on race. That was their policy. If the patient didn't like this policy they were free to choose a different hospital.

This. They wouldn't be abandoning the baby or the mother and if they chose another hospital, that's their choice. What if all the nurses had been black? I don't know if I agree with a lawsuit unless it's a class action though. I do agree that the hospital is probably in trouble.

Pony Boy
02-22-2013, 03:45 PM
I wanna sue somebody!!!!

That could be a great country song.

baja
02-22-2013, 05:18 PM
That could be a great country song.

We got it already;


"A boy named Sue"

houghtam
02-22-2013, 06:08 PM
Don't worry fellas. The lawyers will get paid regardless of the result.

I hear it's the same for doctors.

LOL

baja
02-22-2013, 07:23 PM
I hear it's the same for doctors.

LOL

LOL


That I have always found amazing/

Any other service you don't deliver the service you don't get paid.


But the medical service, like McDonald's, gets paid no matter what.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-22-2013, 07:42 PM
LOL


That I have always found amazing/

Any other service you don't deliver the service you don't get paid.


But the medical service, like McDonald's, gets paid no matter what.

This is news to me. Physicians on call are required by law to take care of all patients regardless of their ability to pay. They can then be sued regardless of the outcome even if they did nothing wrong.

baja
02-22-2013, 09:49 PM
If only it worked that way.

BroncoBeavis
02-22-2013, 10:12 PM
If only it worked that way.

Well to be fair you can't pay in blood and cigarettes up here like you can down there. :)

baja
02-23-2013, 10:23 AM
Well to be fair you can't pay in blood and cigarettes up here like you can down there. :)

I get to chat with my MD about the latest in holistic medicine and traditional herbal remedies during a paid visit. We can spend 45 minutes or so together and nobody is watching the clock. The visit will probably cost about $35 and I get great personal care. He is my friend and we trade books and ideas about healing so I am pretty darn happy with my health care network.

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 10:39 AM
I'd like these battleaxe nurses reconcile their personal feelings of offense with that patients have the right to have a say in who cares for them.

Go ahead, ladies.

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 10:45 AM
Do you really blame baja for calling the person a bigot who said "black on black violence is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about"...THEN started a thread about a black nurse being discriminated against and asking the question "what about the rights of the white supremicist?"

I sure don't. I mean, you may not be...you just post like one.

Odd because I don't see anything about white supremacism here. Plenty of black patients choose black doctors as their primary care providers. I guess they're all "supremicists," too.

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 10:47 AM
but, but, but since I'm not white and I'm a minority it's hard for me to be a "white Supremist" ...........

But in the eyes of the trained attack animals, you say things that set off their PC alarms, so they assume you're "one of those."

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 10:50 AM
She still doesn't have a good lawsuit. Lawsuits are determined by damages and from what I gather she didn't lose her job or reputation. I don't see any big damages here from that standpoint.

This is about hurt feelings, not damages.

Next time I'm flashed or groped by a patient, I'm suing my hospital.

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 10:52 AM
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=gender+protected+bfoq+nurse&oq=gender+protected+bfoq+nurse&gs_l=hp.3...109646.109646.1.110392.1.1.0.0.0.0.106 .106.0j1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.4.psy-ab.AJUKExC8yHg&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42768644,d.aWM&fp=91c3d795106f22b5&biw=1024&bih=629

Google > life experience?

:yayaya::rofl:

houghtam
02-23-2013, 12:10 PM
Odd because I don't see anything about white supremacism here. Plenty of black patients choose black doctors as their primary care providers. I guess they're all "supremicists," too.

LOL

Used to think you just don't read.

Now it's clear you just don't know how.

From the OP:

The man also pulled up his sleeve to reveal "some type of tattoo which was believed to be a swastika of some kind"

Let me guess, he was a central american sun worshipper?

LOL

And as far as using Google is concerned, it's an easy way to link things you already know by typing in keywords about topics the less-learned and uneducated know nothing about, as evidenced in this thread and your total inability to refute anything anyone has said with anything based on, well...anything.

Now get back to stocking the suppository shelves. If you even work in a hospital, which I'm sure you don't. It's likely just another facet of your internet persona you have invented out of convenience, like your womanhood.

Worst case scenario for you, you're Drama Llama and are a sad, sad person. Best case, you're a female nurse who doesn't have a ****ing clue about employment law or the responsibilities of your profession, and are a sad, sad person.



Oh wait...

:yayaya:

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 12:26 PM
Let me guess, he was a central american sun worshipper?

Who cares what tattoos he had?

Frankly, you're not considering the inverse. If someone belongs to a racial group and there are markings or other indications that they belong to it, then it can be within their legitimate concerns that they fear nurses of other races may retaliate against them.

We've more than once had members of the Nation of Islam as patients. I certainly wondered if they hated my guts when I went in to see them, and they probably wondered the same about me. Either way, the concern is a legitimate one from both angles. The patient would wonder if the person of another race helping them would retaliate in some manner, and likewise the person helping them would wonder if they may be subject to unfair accusations as a result of treating someone with these views.

You and yours are trying to oversimplify complicated situations by beating your PC drums and marching around your kumbaya campfire.

houghtam
02-23-2013, 12:26 PM
Hey guys, did you know that movie theaters are exempted from paying minimum wage?

It doesn't matter what you guys say because I work in a movie theater and I know what I'm talking about, no matter what the evidence and common knowledge that anyone can find from a simple Google search shows to the contrary.

What a maroon.





:yayaya:

nyuk nyuk
02-23-2013, 12:33 PM
Hey guys, did you know that movie theaters are exempted from paying minimum wage?

It doesn't matter what you guys say because I work in a movie theater and I know what I'm talking about, no matter what the evidence and common knowledge that anyone can find from a simple Google search shows to the contrary.

Piss poor comparison and you clearly cannot address anything beyond the kumbaya viewpoint.

So I guess my employer was "racist" several years ago when in a semiprivate room a woman from Peru or Chile didn't like having a black lady in the next bed and demanded a room change. We didn't have anything open so we had to keep her curtain pulled shut and get her a bedside commode because she refused to share the same toilet with the black woman.

Violated rights! FIGHT DUH POWAH

houghtam
02-23-2013, 12:37 PM
Piss poor comparison and you clearly cannot address anything beyond the kumbaya viewpoint.

So I guess my employer was "racist" several years ago when in a semiprivate room a woman from Peru or Chile didn't like having a black lady in the next bed and demanded a room change. We didn't have anything open so we had to keep her curtain pulled shut and get her a bedside commode because she refused to share the same toilet with the black woman.

Violated rights! FIGHT DUH POWAH

I'll let you figure it out. You clearly know what you're talking about, as demonstrated in this very thread.

:yayaya:

houghtam
02-23-2013, 01:12 PM
Oh will you look at that, I just got off the phone with my niece who's only been an RN for two years, and even she knows this is the law. Had to deduct a little from her total because she didn't know it was called BFOQ.

There, I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you (although unlike you my niece actually is a nurse who knows the law), so the only thing that separates our arguments is, you know, my actual evidence.

:yayaya:

Pony Boy
02-23-2013, 03:35 PM
Family Sues Disney For Racial Discrimination

White Rabbit character accused of hugging white Kids only

WTF is going on in this World .......


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7kJxf-oM9d8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

houghtam
02-23-2013, 04:27 PM
Family Sues Disney For Racial Discrimination

White Rabbit character accused of hugging white Kids only

WTF is going on in this World .......


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7kJxf-oM9d8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sues?

Do you even listen to your own stuff? The family did exactly what you said the nurse should have done in the first place: they asked for an apology and disciplinary action for the employee. They only hired a lawyer after they were offered $500, which they declined.

So which is it that is acceptable to you, ask for an apology, or sue?

(Or just grin and bear it, right?)

Pony Boy
02-23-2013, 04:38 PM
Sues?

Do you even listen to your own stuff? The family did exactly what you said the nurse should have done in the first place: they asked for an apology and disciplinary action for the employee. They only hired a lawyer after they were offered $500, which they declined.

So which is it that is acceptable to you, ask for an apology, or sue?

(Or just grin and bear it, right?)

I think you're missing the whole point here, so I won't even bother to explain ........ :rofl:

houghtam
02-23-2013, 04:44 PM
I think you're missing the whole point here, so I won't even bother to explain ........ :rofl:

Nope, I got your point.

Grin and bear it. Sometimes racism happens, and if you attempt to rectify the situation by either working it out with the company or working within the confines of established law, then you're a pussy.

Sound about right to you?

baja
02-23-2013, 06:22 PM
The day we breed ourselves into all one color is the day racism will end/

baja
02-23-2013, 06:32 PM
We will have brown hair, brown eyes, light brown skin and the men will all sport a medium sized dick,

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 07:58 PM
The people suing Disney have very little chance.

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 08:02 PM
I'm so sick of black people crying racism all the time. It sure gets old to hear the same BS all the time. We had a case recently where a lady tried to sue pacific theaters for throwing her kids out of the theater. Why because they were loud and ruining it for other people. Of course they feel it was because they are black. Why? They claim some white kids were also using phones and talking but they didn't get kicked out.

manager told me white kids shut up when they asked them to. Black kids laughed and continued to talk on phones, talk loud, and throw popcorn at each other so they threw them out no refund.

They will lose case already about to be dismissed. Attorney is a hack just fishing for a settlement but companies are fighting BS lawsuits more and more and saying cool lets go to court and see what a jury says.

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 08:04 PM
Back to Disney talk about a company with the very best attorneys in the world. People get money from Disney all the time but the % of cases that Disney wins are still about 80% from what i have heard. Just really hard to sue them and win unless its a personal injury lawsuit from you getting hurt. Even then though people don't get as much as they think.

I do know though that the settlement over the person who got killed by the rope that snapped off that big ship got a huge one but not sure if they released how much. I think it was sealed.

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 08:07 PM
Nope, I got your point.

Grin and bear it. Sometimes racism happens, and if you attempt to rectify the situation by either working it out with the company or working within the confines of established law, then you're a p***Y.

Sound about right to you?

No the point is just because you think a character dressed up as a rabbit didn't hug your kid because he's black doesn't rise to the level of racism. The whole lawsuit a joke. Unless you think Disney trains people to be racist how would they be at fault anyways?

It's an absurd lawsuit on every level. What we need to do is sanction more attorneys who file crap lawsuits.

Pony Boy
02-23-2013, 08:08 PM
Nope, I got your point.

Grin and bear it. Sometimes racism happens, and if you attempt to rectify the situation by either working it out with the company or working within the confines of established law, then you're a p***Y.

Sound about right to you?

It's really pathetic when people define racism by their kids not getting a hug from the white bunny at Disney world. I'm really surprised they are not getting upset that there are only white bunnies and no black bunnies.

The poor kids were scarred for life.

houghtam
02-23-2013, 08:22 PM
No the point is just because you think a character dressed up as a rabbit didn't hug your kid because he's black doesn't rise to the level of racism. The whole lawsuit a joke. Unless you think Disney trains people to be racist how would they be at fault anyways?

It's an absurd lawsuit on every level. What we need to do is sanction more attorneys who file crap lawsuits.

You realize there's no lawsuit, right?

The people just asked for an apology and disciplinary action. In response, they got a letter from Disney offering them $500 in shut up money. It wasn't until then that they hired a lawyer. This is all in the video. It's a shame I have to repeat it.

houghtam
02-23-2013, 08:45 PM
It's really pathetic when people define racism by their kids not getting a hug from the white bunny at Disney world. I'm really surprised they are not getting upset that there are only white bunnies and no black bunnies.

The poor kids were scarred for life.

Again, it sure seems like you didn't even watch the video you yourself posted. If they were claiming they were the only customers and they didn't get any attention, you would have a point. But no, they're claiming that white children got attention and black children didn't. That would seem fishy to me if it happened like they said.

You, however, along with cut, are automatically assuming it's a false claim. Why? Maybe it's because they're black?

Why would I make this claim?

Let's recap this thread so far:

- You start a thread about a white supremacist requesting no black nurses and openly question why he can't, all the while implying there is nothing wrong with the practice

- You say the nurse that was affected should be fine with an apology and disciplinary action for the offending supervisor

- You post another story about a black family claiming racism at an amusement park, misrepresent their story because you either didn't understand it or because you were purposely trying to sell a bogus angle

- You claim that the family isn't entitled to anything in this situation, even though in the previous situation the nurse was entitled to an apology and disciplinary action, all the while implying they are being too sensitive

And you wonder why people think you're racist.

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 11:20 PM
You realize there's no lawsuit, right?

The people just asked for an apology and disciplinary action. In response, they got a letter from Disney offering them $500 in shut up money. It wasn't until then that they hired a lawyer. This is all in the video. It's a shame I have to repeat it.

Oh my bad. Usually when someone hires an attorney its to sue. I actually had read about this earlier and didn't watch the video. I just assumed since i was seeing a story where now they have an attorney it meant a lawsuit is coming.

Good for them not suing because suing would prove they are 2 bit shucksters looking for an easy payout.

Pony Boy
02-24-2013, 06:08 AM
Oh my bad. Usually when someone hires an attorney its to sue. I actually had read about this earlier and didn't watch the video. I just assumed since i was seeing a story where now they have an attorney it meant a lawsuit is coming.

Good for them not suing because suing would prove they are 2 bit shucksters looking for an easy payout.

Disneyland is being sued by Jason and Annelia Black, who say their African-American children were treated differently than white kids who approached the “Alice in Wonderland” character for hugs and pictures at the Anaheim, Calif., amusement park.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/black-family-claims-disney-white-rabbit-character-refused-180034301--finance.html

Pony Boy
02-24-2013, 06:18 AM
Sues?

Do you even listen to your own stuff? The family did exactly what you said the nurse should have done in the first place: they asked for an apology and disciplinary action for the employee. They only hired a lawyer after they were offered $500, which they declined.

So which is it that is acceptable to you, ask for an apology, or sue?

(Or just grin and bear it, right?)


Local family files lawsuit against Disneyland, claims racism
Family claims mistreatment by Disney character

SAN DIEGO - A local family filed a lawsuit Monday against Disneyland over claims of racism.

http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/local-family-files-lawsuit-against-disneyland-claims-racism

houghtam
02-24-2013, 07:26 AM
Local family files lawsuit against Disneyland, claims racism
Family claims mistreatment by Disney character

SAN DIEGO - A local family filed a lawsuit Monday against Disneyland over claims of racism.

http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/local-family-files-lawsuit-against-disneyland-claims-racism

That wasn't in the original story you posted, firstly. Secondly that still confirms the timeline I set out.

Care to address this?:

The Blacks' attorney sent a demand letter to Disney, demanding a confirmation the employee has been fired, along with policy changes to make sure the incident never happens again.

They were just demanding what you thought would be sufficient enough for te nurse. So tell me why this situation is different and why these people should have thicker skin than the nurse.

Pony Boy
02-24-2013, 07:51 AM
That wasn't in the original story you posted, firstly. Secondly that still confirms the timeline I set out.

Care to address this?:



They were just demanding what you thought would be sufficient enough for te nurse. So tell me why this situation is different and why these people should have thicker skin than the nurse.

Because in neither case it’s really not about racism but it's "all about the money".

The lawyer said "this isn't about money" so what do you think that means .......

houghtam
02-24-2013, 08:04 AM
Because in neither case it’s really not about racism but it's "all about the money".

The lawyer said "this isn't about money" so what do you think that means .......

They didn't hire a lawyer until after they were offered $500 for their silence. I mean, what could have possibly made them think there was anything more to the story, amirite??

So let me get this straight. Let's say you perceived you were being treated unfairly because of your race. When you approached the business about it, they apologized and offered you $500 if you signed a contract not to talk about the incident. Wouldn't you expect there's something fishy going on? I would. That's not common business practice, or you'd have people cashing in on the $500 all. the. time. Especially those black people you claim don't care about racism, just money.

No, what you do in a situation where you believe someone is falsely claiming racism and threatening a boycott unless you give them money is what I did in 2009. You document it and take the claim to police, because extortion is a felony and 2 counts will get you 10-20 years. I'm not going to post the case info here on the board, but if you're interested or don't believe me, shoot me a PM and I'll give you the case number in Cobb County (GA) Superior Court.

So again, what part of hiring a lawyer after getting offered $500 in shut up money is being "all about the money?"

errand
02-24-2013, 08:21 AM
wow racism in a blue state.....I've always been told that that was impossible as they are such utopias of diversity.....silly me. I personally would have told him he should find another hospital to have his child's birth in.....but that too might have opened them up for litigation.

I find it funny that this skinhead would possibly think he could live in Flint Michigan and not have a black person touch something of his....I mean where does he go for fast food, or groceries or get his car fixed, etc.....

My only question is what if the roles were reversed? What if the father was a black man who didn't want some white nurses with swastikas to handle his child? What if the father was Jewish and didn't want any blonde haired blue eye nurse that looked German to handle his child? While the odds of that happening are slim, it isn't impossible.....so would the hospital have been wrong to do likewise?

Add in that the fact that as others have mentioned a hostile situation would have potentially happened had this skinhead found out the hospital ignored his wishes or directives it could have also led to the hospital being sued.....

Imagine this scenario...racist father comes in and sees Aeisha holding his child....he then rips the child out of her arms and says I don't want your "ni@@er" hands on my child....Aeisha gets angry and smacks the father for using a racial slur.......while I think he deserves it, the hospital and courts might feel otherwise as her slapping him is still considered assualt....not to mention what if the father reacts to being slapped like a US Postal employee and comes into the hospital and shoots it up?

What is more important? Protecting the black nurses from racism or protecting the entire hospital and it's patients from a potentially violent **** burger mess?

houghtam
02-24-2013, 08:29 AM
wow racism in a blue state.....I've always been told that that was impossible as they are such utopias of diversity.....silly me. I personally would have told him he should find another hospital to have his child's birth in.....but that too might have opened them up for litigation.

I find it funny that this skinhead would possibly think he could live in Flint Michigan and not have a black person touch something of his....I mean where does he go for fast food, or groceries or get his car fixed, etc.....

My only question is what if the roles were reversed? What if the father was a black man who didn't want some white nurses with swastikas to handle his child? What if the father was Jewish and didn't want any blonde haired blue eye nurse that looked German to handle his child? While the odds of that happening are slim, it isn't impossible.....so would the hospital have been wrong to do likewise?

Add in that the fact that as others have mentioned a hostile situation would have potentially happened had this skinhead found out the hospital ignored his wishes or directives it could have also led to the hospital being sued.....

Imagine this scenario...racist father comes in and sees Aeisha holding his child....he then rips the child out of her arms and says I don't want your "ni@@er" hands on my child....Aeisha gets angry and smacks the father for using a racial slur.......while I think he deserves it, the hospital and courts might feel otherwise as her slapping him is still considered assualt....not to mention what if the father reacts to being slapped like a US Postal employee and comes into the hospital and shoots it up?

What is more important? Protecting the black nurses from racism or protecting the entire hospital and it's patients from a potentially violent **** burger mess?

Which is why the supervisor should have denied the request, informed the black nurse of the situation and that it was her choice if she still wanted the assignment, and then informed her supervisor so that the higher ups knew immediately. That would have likely released the hospital from liability because not only did they not comply with the illegal request, they gave the nurse the option to not go in there out of concern for her safety. You could still file suit if you wanted, but it would get thrown out in a heartbeat.

As far as your example, a hospital cannot legally comply with any request for service based on race. That includes both examples you gave. If you want to be racist, you have to be sneaky about it like txtebow suggested, and pretend you don't like a black person because of other qualities. Or at least that's what he claims. He's probably got more experience in that regard than I.

errand
02-24-2013, 08:42 AM
It's about when this guy made this unlawful request

how is his request unlawful?

The act of granting him his request might be unlawful....but how is requesting no black nurses unlawful? It's racist and given the locale of the hospital and % of blacks working there a stupid request, but I don't see how it is unlawful.....I mean was the dad arrested for illegally requesting caucasian nurses?

errand
02-24-2013, 08:51 AM
What if the black nurse refused to tend to the patient had she been informed of the father's skinhead attitude on life?

Is it just as bad for a black nurse to refuse to care for someone who is racist as it is to not let a black nurse care for a racist?

errand
02-24-2013, 08:57 AM
Do you really blame baja for calling the person a bigot who said "black on black violence is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about"...THEN started a thread about a black nurse being discriminated against and asking the question "what about the rights of the white supremicist?"

I sure don't. I mean, you may not be...you just post like one.

Go on facebook and type in search window the words white power, then black power, then latino power, and finally asian power...guess which one isn't allowed to be a "group" that can have a facebook page.


Isn't it just a racist to think blacks are superior to whites or asians? Isn't it just as racist to believe latinos are better than blacks or whites? Or are we still stuck in that only whites have the ability to be racist?

errand
02-24-2013, 09:03 AM
but, but, but since I'm not white and I'm a minority it's hard for me to be a "white Supremist" ...........

And it never crossed their narrow minds to think you might be a "minority"...but because you say many things that conservatives say, so in their eyes you have to be a white racist, or at the very least a racist.

houghtam
02-24-2013, 09:06 AM
Go on facebook and type in search window the words white power, then black power, then latino power, and finally asian power...guess which one isn't allowed to be a "group" that can have a facebook page.


Isn't it just a racist to think blacks are superior to whites or asians? Isn't it just as racist to believe latinos are better than blacks or whites? Or are we still stuck in that only whites have the ability to be racist?

1) Pony already said he's not white.

2) If that's the case, it's deplorable and I think that Facebook should change their policy. In fact, I'll even write them an email about it.

3) It literally has nothing to do with the case.

As far as your other example goes, it would depend on the circumstances, but I'm sure the case could be made for the nurse that she felt threatened by the guy who requested no black nurses who had a swastika tattoo on his arm. A nurse could not, however, just refuse to serve a white guy for no other reason than "he's white".

And you're right, spdirty (and I) should probably not have said "illegal request", but rather "request which is illegal to grant". Small (but important?) distinction...somehow I think you understood what we meant, though.

errand
02-24-2013, 09:25 AM
BTW I agree with you that Black on Black violence is a very real issue, nobody could deny that but tell me if it is not a socioeconomic problem what the underling issue that is the problem.

how about too many broken homes without fathers......happens more in black communities than any other....too many people in this country dismiss the importance of a positive male role model in the upbringing of a child.

Pony Boy
02-24-2013, 09:39 AM
1) Pony already said he's not white.

2) If that's the case, it's deplorable and I think that Facebook should change their policy. In fact, I'll even write them an email about it.

3) It literally has nothing to do with the case.

As far as your other example goes, it would depend on the circumstances, but I'm sure the case could be made for the nurse that she felt threatened by the guy who requested no black nurses who had a swastika tattoo on his arm. A nurse could not, however, just refuse to serve a white guy for no other reason than "he's white".

And you're right, spdirty (and I) should probably not have said "illegal request", but rather "request which is illegal to grant". Small (but important?) distinction...somehow I think you understood what we meant, though.


I think you've wandered pretty far off the reservation here we are talking about a father's request to have no black nurses look after his baby in the neonatal intensive care. I’m pretty sure the baby didn't have a swastika tattoo or was any kind of threat.

Maybe he was afraid the black nurse wouldn’t hug the racists white baby but only gives out hugs to black babies, it does happen just look at the racist white rabbit.

errand
02-24-2013, 09:40 AM
That could be a great country song.

Well it already is a rock and roll song....George wrote this after being sued by his former band mates John, Paul, and Ringo....of course George counter sued.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f2JIexhpMNs?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

errand
02-24-2013, 10:00 AM
The day we breed ourselves into all one color is the day racism will end/

...and yet we have liberals telling us we should embrace diversity....so when we're all the same color how will we be diverse?

But I wonder what the excuses will be if that happened? And if racism didn't exist because we were all the same color, then what comes next? We all become transexuals to stop sex discrimination? We become Logan's Run to stop age discrimination? we all become one religion to stop religious discrimination?

I was raised that not everyone is going to like me for whatever reasons they have.......and that calling me a name isn't going to determine what my life's outcome is going to be.

errand
02-24-2013, 10:04 AM
You realize there's no lawsuit, right?

The people just asked for an apology and disciplinary action. In response, they got a letter from Disney offering them $500 in shut up money. It wasn't until then that they hired a lawyer. This is all in the video. It's a shame I have to repeat it.

If they hired a lawyer, they intend to sue....why else would they hire a lawyer?

houghtam
02-24-2013, 10:15 AM
I think you've wandered pretty far off the reservation here we are talking about a (swastika tattoo-having) father's request (which would be illegal for the hospital to grant) to have no black nurses look after his baby in the neonatal intensive care. I’m pretty sure the baby didn't have a swastika tattoo or was any kind of threat.

Maybe he was afraid the black nurse wouldn’t hug the racists white baby but only gives out hugs to black babies, it does happen just look at the racist white rabbit.

Fixed your post to show you the facts that you left out. Facts that, while they're convenient for you to forget, won't be forgotten when this inevitably gets settled.

If you can't see the absurdity of the rest of the tripe you typed, we're done here until you can sufficiently explain how an apology and disciplinary action are okay under one situation, but when they're requested in a similar situation involving race, they're not deserved, and somehow now both parties are only in it for the money, despite one party turning down $500.

PS: It wouldn't matter if the baby were half-black with a birthmark that said "I love people of all colors, and so does my dad." The fact remains that any request based on race to limit what nurses can handle your baby is illegal for the hospital to grant. What part of that is too hard for you to understand?

If they hired a lawyer, they intend to sue....why else would they hire a lawyer?

Read. The. Article.

They hired the lawyer after they were offered $500 shut up money, which they refused, and stated they only wanted an apology and disciplinary action. I would have done the same.

houghtam
03-09-2013, 09:52 AM
Oh look.

Precedent.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12175147218935997244

houghtam
02-14-2014, 04:44 PM
You follow it and let us know ok? Sure she may get 50 grand or something who knows but in Calif they have gotten a little tighter with judgements since the late 90's where most of your examples came from.

This case was apparently settled very quickly. $110,000 to the one plaintiff, $45,000 to the other two.

Frankenmuth attorney Julie Gafkay, who represented the women, said the size of the settlement, particularly since there was no monetary loss, supports the claim that the nurses were wronged.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/03/hurley_hospital_paid_nearly_20.html

Depending on how long she worked there, in Flint that's probably 2-3 years' salary, easy. I'd say that's sizable.

cutthemdown
02-15-2014, 11:24 PM
This case was apparently settled very quickly. $110,000 to the one plaintiff, $45,000 to the other two.



http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/03/hurley_hospital_paid_nearly_20.html

Depending on how long she worked there, in Flint that's probably 2-3 years' salary, easy. I'd say that's sizable.

Still anyone who thinks little settlements like that are alot isn't in the legal field. She probably deserved it. We just did a case where someone was wrongfully terminated, proved it, and they are getting 1 full yrs salary (90 grand). A fair deal as it takes that long or even more to rebuild career.

Not surprised the did 100 grand as the difference between 50 and 100 when it comes to paying for attorney fees is nothing. Often the big enitity is more worried about losing big in court.

Still i stand by my comment that people are wrong if they thing it is super easy to just sue people and win. It's tough to win a big settlement. For all the ones you hear about I could give you 3 where the person probably deserved money and got nothing.

cutthemdown
02-15-2014, 11:25 PM
Remember 30-35% goes str8 to the lawyers/ :)

cutthemdown
02-15-2014, 11:26 PM
Houghtam whats sort of funny is the firm i work at does a lot of slip and falls for Pacfic Theaters. Man a lot of crazy **** happens in theaters. We have a case where the lady says she slipped on butter from spilled popcorn.

houghtam
02-16-2014, 04:18 AM
Houghtam whats sort of funny is the firm i work at does a lot of slip and falls for Pacfic Theaters. Man a lot of crazy **** happens in theaters. We have a case where the lady says she slipped on butter from spilled popcorn.

It's easy to do. If you don't hire the right people and train them correctly, theaters are not exactly the safest places on the face of the earth. Think about it. Poorly lit (the companies I worked for purposely turned off the lobby lights as well, using only the illumination from the trailer screens and concessions counters), high traffic, people not paying attention to where they're going, wet floors due to spills and/or inclement weather. And that just the lobby.

Now that I think of it, if I were handicapped or elderly, I would avoid those places like the plague, unless I knew the place was well kept up. I never had a problem at any of the theaters in my districts, and both companies overall were pretty good about that sort of thing, but I've been to about a dozen Regal theaters nationwide, and haven't had very good luck. Same with Carmike.

cutthemdown
02-17-2014, 02:42 AM
All theaters can really do is have a great cleaning routine where the employees sign off on each thing, for each time slot.

Also some theaters are crazy and install tile floors in the lobby that get really slippery when wet. We have an expert that actually can test how slippery a floor was. Some of them come back ridiculously slippery when wet. It makes you wonder who designs theaters and why they don't learn their lessons.

houghtam
02-17-2014, 05:55 AM
All theaters can really do is have a great cleaning routine where the employees sign off on each thing, for each time slot.

Also some theaters are crazy and install tile floors in the lobby that get really slippery when wet. We have an expert that actually can test how slippery a floor was. Some of them come back ridiculously slippery when wet. It makes you wonder who designs theaters and why they don't learn their lessons.

It's because the types of tile that are designed to keep from getting slippery are more expensive and hold more dirt, so they are a lot more difficult to deep clean, so they end up looking like **** in a few years. Cheaper tile is easier to keep clean, and most theaters figure with the right training and staffing you can avoid accidents in the first place.

Also if you have an active management team, one of them should be in the lobby more or less at all times. If you're ever in a theater and there is not a manager out on the floor watching and listening to make sure everything is okay, you're going to the wrong place.

broncocalijohn
02-17-2014, 11:33 AM
The a-hole dad wasn't the patient, if the hospital turned away the baby and something happen to the baby, well now we are talking a law suite in the millions.

Then you tell the Dad that we are here to care for his baby and whoever is on staff is capable of doing as planned. If he doesn't want a certain type of person on our staff to care for his baby then he will need to get the expenses of moving the child to a facility that can fulfill his wishes.