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View Full Version : Drafting a Mike early a foregone conclusion? Not necessarily


Kaylore
02-14-2013, 02:31 PM
A lot of people have assumed that we're going to draft a middle linebacker early this year. There are several reasons it wouldn't be a bad idea, including:


Joe Mays, after being paid quite a bit, is coming off an injury. Even before his injury he was not playing well. The Broncos could save a lot of money by just letting him go.
Keith Brooking is ancient. He likely isn't coming back.
Nate Irving hasn't really developed.
The Broncos seem to always take the best player available regardless of need in the draft.
However I was listening to Tom Nalen and Les Shapiro on the radio today and I am beginning to think the Broncos are more optimistic about the Mike position for a variety of reasons.


DJ Williams wants to stay. What? How could he? Well he said he likes the Broncos. He thinks this is his best shot at getting a ring, and he has come forward recently and said while he would like to continue to compete with Woodyard for the weak side linebacker position, he is open to moving to the middle. He said it would be a good way to deal with the loss of speed he is dealing with, and it is not an entirely unfamiliar position to him. If the Broncos want to keep him, it makes the most sense with Miller and Woodyard on either side.
Nate Irving. What? How could he possibly be in the mix? Well word 'round the camp fire is the mental aspect of the game is slowing down for him. There could be a point where if the Broncos staff feels he's finally "got it" that he could compete and even start this next season - and at the very least will receive a good look their during preseason. If Nate does develop well, it could shift concerns during the draft to throw a pick at another position.
Steven Johnson. Who? He was a college free agent that has actually really started to raise eyebrows recently. Apparently some players and coaching staff think he has more than a decent chance to compete for the starting middle linebacker position and his good play is what helped him get onto the final 53 last season. He allegedly grew a lot and many on the staff are excited to see how he'll progress.
So while it might seem "horrible" to us right now, the Mike position has some options. And a couple have been on the back-burner for some time. It would be nice if one of those young guys emerged as a legit starter and that allowed us to dedicate resources elsewhere.

However I am reminded that last year the Broncos said they didn't think their defensive tackle position was thad bad and then proceeded to take one with their first pick. So who knows?

ludo21
02-14-2013, 02:34 PM
Mediator has been saying all along that a competent MLB can be had in the middle rounds, and i am starting to assume the same. BPA with our first rounder is beginning to look more and more like WR, OL or CB

ludo21
02-14-2013, 02:40 PM
Mediator has been saying all along that a competent MLB can be had in the middle rounds, and i am starting to assume the same. BPA with our first rounder is beginning to look more and more like WR, OL or CB

Lestat
02-14-2013, 02:45 PM
no, just no! i want a true MLB that is a pure MLB. no combo, no hybrid, no slide over from.
i want a dude who can beast and turn this defense into even more of a monster.
we have seen how big a really good MLB is in the playoffs.

Andrew Jackson in the 2nd works for me. though he goes against the prototypical Fox LB. normally he likes them 240 or less. Jackson is a 262 lb thumper.

Kaylore
02-14-2013, 02:48 PM
no, just no! i want a true MLB that is a pure MLB. no combo, no hybrid, no slide over from.
i want a dude who can beast and turn this defense into even more of a monster.
we have seen how big a really good MLB is in the playoffs.

Andrew Jackson in the 2nd works for me. though he goes against the prototypical Fox LB. normally he likes them 240 or less. Jackson is a 262 lb thumper.

In today's NFL they aren't needed. Since so much of the game is played in the nickel, are you really going to be broken up about having to "settle" for Von and Woodyard on the field and an extra DB?

I'm leaning more toward CB now, especially given where we are picking and what is available this draft.

cutthemdown
02-14-2013, 02:49 PM
How could they really draft one early? Unless they reached. How many inside linebackers even go in the first 3 rounds this year? It's a very think year for true-4-3 middle linebackers who can do what all of you want the Bronco MLB to do.

I predict at most 3 inside linebackers in first 2 rounds.

Kaylore
02-14-2013, 02:55 PM
How could they really draft one early? Unless they reached. How many inside linebackers even go in the first 3 rounds this year? It's a very think year for true-4-3 middle linebackers who can do what all of you want the Bronco MLB to do.

I predict at most 3 inside linebackers in first 2 rounds.

There's also this. It's a bad draft for linebackers and QB's this year. They can't take what isn't there...unless they reach for need, which they haven't done under Elway.

Beantown Bronco
02-14-2013, 03:04 PM
Nate Irving. There could be a point where if the Broncos staff feels he's finally "got it" that he could compete and even start this next season - and at the very least will receive a good look their during preseason. If Nate does develop well, it could shift concerns during the draft to throw a pick at another position.

This doesn't make sense. This entire part of their argument for not drafting one is based off of Irving "getting it" during the upcoming training camps and preseason, but those things happen AFTER the draft, not before. Unless they have a time machine, this logic is extremely flawed.

DBroncos4life
02-14-2013, 03:04 PM
We should just run the Peso Defense as our nickel D. WW paired with Arthur Brown would be awesome.

2KBack
02-14-2013, 03:06 PM
This doesn't make sense. This entire part of their argument for not drafting one is based off of Irving "getting it" during the upcoming training camps and preseason, but those things happen AFTER the draft, not before. Unless they have a time machine, this logic is extremely flawed.

He might have been getting it towards the end of last season, but the kept at status quo because....well because we were killing fools and you don't mess with a streak.

Rascal
02-14-2013, 03:08 PM
We should just run the Peso Defense as our nickel D. WW paired with Arthur Brown would be awesome.

Well, I doubt Brown will be there at our second round pick, so that means our first which would be a considerable reach.

Beantown Bronco
02-14-2013, 03:09 PM
He might have been getting it towards the end of last season, but the kept at status quo because....well because we were killing fools and you don't mess with a streak.

But it clearly says "if he develops well" that it could shift their focus in the draft....not "they liked his development over the course of last year". What development could the team possibly see between now and the draft that would lead them to believe he could take over the starting MLB role?

broncosteven
02-14-2013, 03:18 PM
I think the quick fix would be redoing DJ's deal (gulp extension) and moving him inside. That would allow a BPA to be taken with the 1st pick and save us money on the cap also and allow the young guys to develop behind him.

I don't think DJ would be on the street long if we did cut him.

I would like the middle of our D to be more physical DJ is a good tackler if unspectaular and he can cover better than Mays and Brookings.

Will be fun to see the tweaks we do to get over the hump.

Kaylore
02-14-2013, 03:20 PM
It's just a language error on my part. However if they feel good about the potential of both Irving, Johnson and DJ stays, they could punt on MLB and grow what they have.

Tombstone RJ
02-14-2013, 03:21 PM
I think if the right MLB falls to the Broncos they will take him, but that's a big if. As for DJ playing MLB, I guess I'll trust the Broncos to make that decision. My understanding is that the last time DJ tried MLB he failed because he couldn't grasp the playbook, not because he can't tackle or shed blocks or flow or whatever.

As for Irving, I'd love for this guy to pan out. He's definitely got the most upside.

As for Johnson, love this guy. He's got fantastic instincts, he's always around the ball. He is a true LBer at heart. That being said, dude is just not very fast. Now, if he's always in position due to his instincts and correct reads, great! But if he missjudges a play or takes a bad angle, seeyah! He's gonna be way behind.

TheReverend
02-14-2013, 03:21 PM
That's a well, but if it doesn't work out and we haven't gotten a contingency plan, then shame on he FO

2KBack
02-14-2013, 03:29 PM
But it clearly says "if he develops well" that it could shift their focus in the draft....not "they liked his development over the course of last year". What development could the team possibly see between now and the draft that would lead them to believe he could take over the starting MLB role?

Yeah, I think I adjusted that in my head to "If he's developed well." I wonder how often I read other people's posts through my editing filter?

It would explain a lot of my confusion sometimes.

DBroncos4life
02-14-2013, 03:33 PM
Well, I doubt Brown will be there at our second round pick, so that means our first which would be a considerable reach.

Well we really just need another safety playing LB. In theory it is a pretty good way to slow down the spread O.

Lestat
02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
How could they really draft one early? Unless they reached. How many inside linebackers even go in the first 3 rounds this year? It's a very think year for true-4-3 middle linebackers who can do what all of you want the Bronco MLB to do.

I predict at most 3 inside linebackers in first 2 rounds.

likely 4-5 will go in the first 2. lots of need and there are always risers like Wagner last season.

Lestat
02-14-2013, 03:43 PM
Well, I doubt Brown will be there at our second round pick, so that means our first which would be a considerable reach.

eh, Brown should be there. but after the last MLB from KSU i'm kind of skeptical on drafting him. Pierce's bomb out makes me cynical of KSU.
Granted Brown is a nice talent.

Rohirrim
02-14-2013, 03:45 PM
They're going to trust DJ not to go out drinking again? Why not just make it easy on yourself? If Minter is there at 28, take him. Problem solved.

Tombstone RJ
02-14-2013, 03:51 PM
If DJ wants to stay, I'm sure he's willing to restructure too, right? Riiiiiight.

Requiem
02-14-2013, 03:53 PM
I really don't see how people think this is a weak draft at linebacker.

socalorado
02-14-2013, 03:58 PM
I really don't see how people think this is a weak draft at linebacker.

Agreed.

Bmore Manning
02-14-2013, 04:04 PM
Mauti would be a very nice 5th round pick. He could be a contingency plan if they are going to give Irving a chance to compete for the job.

I really think Te'o makes it to #28..

oubronco
02-14-2013, 04:08 PM
Draft a stud MLB and let them fight it out in camp, it wouldn't hurt to have an extra LB as they are needed on special teams

SonOfLe-loLang
02-14-2013, 04:08 PM
eh, Brown should be there. but after the last MLB from KSU i'm kind of skeptical on drafting him. Pierce's bomb out makes me cynical of KSU.
Granted Brown is a nice talent.

Does it really? A linebacker from 10 years ago? Who cares.

What scares me more about Brown is that I think he often gets flushed out when you run at him (at least from what I watched). Which is not a very good quality for a middle linebacker to have. Great sideline to sideline, but for those who hated seeing Joe Mays take bad angles on up the gut plays, i dont think you're gonna be pleased with Brown.

Requiem
02-14-2013, 04:11 PM
Mauti would be a very nice 5th round pick. He could be a contingency plan if they are going to give Irving a chance to compete for the job.

I really think Te'o makes it to #28..

As you wrote that post, Mauti's left leg fell off. For real though. He can play, but he doesn't play often. Poor ACL tears, that really sucks. That being said -- I'm rootin' for him. Can't really go wrong with Penn State LBers.

CEH
02-14-2013, 04:18 PM
Mauti would be a very nice 5th round pick. He could be a contingency plan if they are going to give Irving a chance to compete for the job.

I really think Te'o makes it to #28..

The MLBer is typically your leader
I have serious concerns that Manti's emotional makeup is too weak to lead a group of NFL players. He seems like a loner to me. A fake girlfriend really?

Bmore Manning
02-14-2013, 04:21 PM
As you wrote that post, Mauti's left leg fell off. For real though. He can play, but he doesn't play often. Poor ACL tears, that really sucks. That being said -- I'm rootin' for him. Can't really go wrong with Penn State LBers.

LOL!!

When I heard that he wrote those 32 letters, you can't help but think, this guy really likes football. And I personally like mid round flyers on high potential players who fell for a number of reasons. He has second round talent for sure, but he cannot stay healthy. And if they aren't giving up on Irving, I think Mauti in the middle rounds is a perfect player to bring in.

Requiem
02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
LOL!!

When I heard that he wrote those 32 letters, you can't help but think, this guy really likes football. And I personally like mid round flyers on high potential players who fell for a number of reasons. He has second round talent for sure, but he cannot stay healthy. And if they aren't giving up on Irving, I think Mauti in the middle rounds is a perfect player to bring in.

I'll roll with that.

Besides, with a stare like this -- BAAAAM.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/108/1087500.jpg

Requiem
02-14-2013, 04:24 PM
The MLBer is typically your leader
I have serious concerns that Manti's emotional makeup is too weak to lead a group of NFL players. He seems like a loner to me. A fake girlfriend really?

Michael Mauti from Penn State. Not the crazy kid.

Bmore Manning
02-14-2013, 04:24 PM
The MLBer is typically your leader
I have serious concerns that Manti's emotional makeup is too weak to lead a group of NFL players. He seems like a loner to me. A fake girlfriend really?

He was a leader on the field, I think he plays with a chip on his shoulder. What I really like is his instincts. He just always seems to be in the right place. I would be very content with him at 28, unless some other elite player fell.

Paladin
02-14-2013, 04:35 PM
As you wrote that post, Mauti's left leg fell off. For real though. He can play, but he doesn't play often. Poor ACL tears, that really sucks. That being said -- I'm rootin' for him. Can't really go wrong with Penn State LBers.

He is from Notre Dame.

Paladin
02-14-2013, 04:36 PM
Now that you have clarified,,,,,

pricejj
02-14-2013, 04:37 PM
Hate to break it to the draftniks, but the Broncos starting MLB in 2013 is already on the roster.

BroncoBeavis
02-14-2013, 04:39 PM
There's also this. It's a bad draft for linebackers and QB's this year. They can't take what isn't there...unless they reach for need, which they haven't done under Elway.

Yeah, we don't reach for need. We only reach for 6 foot 7 clipboard stands. :)

Requiem
02-14-2013, 04:41 PM
He is from Notre Dame.

Manti Teo is from Notre Dame, yes.

I was talking about Michael Mauti from Penn State.

Bmore Manning
02-14-2013, 04:41 PM
Hate to break it to the draftniks, but the Broncos starting MLB in 2013 is already on the roster.

Our resident draft expert. And who is that Price..

Requiem
02-14-2013, 04:42 PM
Hate to break it to the draftniks, but the Broncos starting MLB in 2013 is already on the roster.

That better not be true.

Bmore Manning
02-14-2013, 04:47 PM
I'll roll with that.

Besides, with a stare like this -- BAAAAM.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/108/1087500.jpg

Paul Posluszny's cousin?

What's his health and recovery status/expectations?

TheReverend
02-14-2013, 04:51 PM
Mauti is an excellent football player. I'd love for him to be a Bronco.

Hull, though... boy that guy can play. With 2 years of eligibility left (I only think he'll use 1 more), he's gonna be a great NFL LBer someday.

Mogulseeker
02-14-2013, 05:15 PM
A lot of people have assumed that we're going to draft a middle linebacker early this year. There are several reasons it wouldn't be a bad idea, including:


Joe Mays, after being paid quite a bit, is coming off an injury. Even before his injury he was not playing well. The Broncos could save a lot of money by just letting him go.
Keith Brooking is ancient. He likely isn't coming back.
Nate Irving hasn't really developed.
The Broncos seem to always take the best player available regardless of need in the draft.
However I was listening to Tom Nalen and Les Shapiro on the radio today and I am beginning to think the Broncos are more optimistic about the Mike position for a variety of reasons.


DJ Williams wants to stay. What? How could he? Well he said he likes the Broncos. He thinks this is his best shot at getting a ring, and he has come forward recently and said while he would like to continue to compete with Woodyard for the weak side linebacker position, he is open to moving to the middle. He said it would be a good way to deal with the loss of speed he is dealing with, and it is not an entirely unfamiliar position to him. If the Broncos want to keep him, it makes the most sense with Miller and Woodyard on either side.
Nate Irving. What? How could he possibly be in the mix? Well word 'round the camp fire is the mental aspect of the game is slowing down for him. There could be a point where if the Broncos staff feels he's finally "got it" that he could compete and even start this next season - and at the very least will receive a good look their during preseason. If Nate does develop well, it could shift concerns during the draft to throw a pick at another position.
Steven Johnson. Who? He was a college free agent that has actually really started to raise eyebrows recently. Apparently some players and coaching staff think he has more than a decent chance to compete for the starting middle linebacker position and his good play is what helped him get onto the final 53 last season. He allegedly grew a lot and many on the staff are excited to see how he'll progress.
So while it might seem "horrible" to us right now, the Mike position has some options. And a couple have been on the back-burner for some time. It would be nice if one of those young guys emerged as a legit starter and that allowed us to dedicate resources elsewhere.

However I am reminded that last year the Broncos said they didn't think their defensive tackle position was thad bad and then proceeded to take one with their first pick. So who knows?

We might do it again.... anyone read the most recent SI with the NFL review? The Broncos were dead last in percentage of passing snaps that generated interior pressure.

g6matty
02-14-2013, 06:23 PM
if we some how were able to land ogletree we would have the youngest fastest group of linebackers for the next 10 years

DBroncos4life
02-14-2013, 06:26 PM
if we some how were able to land ogletree we would have the youngest fastest group of linebackers for the next 10 years

So Ogletree is the fountain of youth, preventing anyone from aging or slowing down.

g6matty
02-14-2013, 06:42 PM
So Ogletree is the fountain of youth, preventing anyone from aging or slowing down.

youre a douchebag. maybe you should tell us because youve been suckin him off. does your skin look any younger when he finishes on you and you rub it in?

Agamemnon
02-14-2013, 06:49 PM
I honestly think the need has been blown way out proportion. Our defense was damn good with Mike-by-committee once Joe Mays was taken out. Running back and interior o-line are much bigger needs in my opinion.

DBroncos4life
02-14-2013, 07:02 PM
youre a douchebag. maybe you should tell us because youve been suckin him off. does your skin look any younger when he finishes on you and you rub it in?

Maybe incrediblywrong will tweet about it.

Tombstone RJ
02-14-2013, 07:06 PM
With DJ admittedly slowing down (he says he's slowing down), Irving's lack of development and Johnson's inability to cover anyone, I'm not sure how the Broncos can really look people in the eyes and say everything is just fine at the MLB spot. I simply don't trust DJ at mike. As for Irving, who the hell knows? Johnson has heart but no speed. I just don't see how the Broncos can justify doing nothing at ILBer.

KipCorrington25
02-14-2013, 07:11 PM
All mediocre to bad choices on the current roster we need an upgrade immediatly.

g6matty
02-14-2013, 08:19 PM
why on earth does any body think johnson has any ability to take over the mike spot. hes an undrafted player who is a special teams body.


what about keith rivers we could try to turn his career around like we did with bunkley and tried to do with that DE last year i cant remember his name he was from jacksonville though.

u think del rio and fox could save him?

Lestat
02-14-2013, 08:33 PM
Hate to break it to the draftniks, but the Broncos starting MLB in 2013 is already on the roster.

the hell they are! we need upgrades at multiple positions and MLB being the biggest one to help the overall defense.

NFLBRONCO
02-14-2013, 09:23 PM
the hell they are! we need upgrades at multiple positions and MLB being the biggest one to help the overall defense.

While we agree with you. To go as far and say 100% sure thing FO thinks so too I'm not that confident in that case.

TheReverend
02-14-2013, 09:32 PM
why on earth does any body think johnson has any ability to take over the mike spot. hes an undrafted player who is a special teams body.

:thumbs:

what about keith rivers we could try to turn his career around like we did with bunkley and tried to do with that DE last year i cant remember his name he was from jacksonville though.

Derrick Harvey

u think del rio and fox could save him?

Rivers couldn't handle the middle

broncosteven
02-14-2013, 09:40 PM
I honestly think the need has been blown way out proportion. Our defense was damn good with Mike-by-committee once Joe Mays was taken out. Running back and interior o-line are much bigger needs in my opinion.

As the offseason has gone on I 1st thought C was a priorty, then MLB but I agree as of this second I think RB is 1st priority then everything else. I would hope that Elway learned something from Bobby Turner and can find one in the 2nd or later rounds.

This staff has proved they can evaluate their players, if they feel comfortable with what we have on the team we can go BPA in the 1st round which would be big down the road.

Man-Goblin
02-14-2013, 10:10 PM
You guys will feel better when you finally admit it is time for Champ to switch to MLB.

Taco John
02-14-2013, 11:16 PM
I have lost confidence in DJ Williams, and I certainly don't think he's the firey leader that we need at the center of our defense. I personally would like to see us get Urlacher and then draft a guy in either an early or mid round.

Play2win
02-14-2013, 11:37 PM
We need a MLB that, just like a good RB, has great vision.

FireFly
02-14-2013, 11:44 PM
I REALLY wanted us to draft a MLB in the first, but the more I think about it with all the nickel that we're playing maybe MLB isn't all that an important? Certainly not enough to reach. I think we can safely pick the BPA and not look back.

CEH
02-15-2013, 07:34 AM
Michael Mauti from Penn State. Not the crazy kid.

Damn the names are so similar. The ND kid is bat crazy

Rohirrim
02-15-2013, 08:23 AM
I have lost confidence in DJ Williams, and I certainly don't think he's the firey leader that we need at the center of our defense. I personally would like to see us get Urlacher and then draft a guy in either an early or mid round.

I don't think Brian would play for another team. If they try and trade him, he'll just retire.

BroncoBeavis
02-15-2013, 08:27 AM
With DJ admittedly slowing down (he says he's slowing down).

That's what happens when they take away a man's robopiss. :)

The more we get into the offseason, the more I want a cagey vet at MLB or SS. We have a ton of athletes on D but not enough leadership.

BroncoBeavis
02-15-2013, 08:41 AM
I don't think Brian would play for another team. If they try and trade him, he'll just retire.

He's a UFA, so it won't be a trade. I'd hope maybe if BU decided to test the market, Elway could use the old Jedi used-car mind trick on Urlacher and remind him that he doesn't have the years left to spend on a new coach and rebuild in Chicago.

Baba Booey
02-15-2013, 09:08 AM
I've heard people compare Kevin Minter to Bobby Wagner. If we're taking a mike at #28, that's the ticket.

cmhargrove
02-15-2013, 09:16 AM
This will be an interesting draft for sure. Lots of potential value picks at the bottom of round 1. I would say "bolster the trenches" at D-tackle first, but our coaches have also shown they are happy with "role players" like Vickerson, Bannan, and Unrein.

We have needed a leader in the middle for way, way too long. I love what Von and Wesley bring on the outside, but a solid leader in the middle could take us to the next level (which is what we need).

I don't know too much about Mauti, but if he has been a productive leader at Penn State, I'm all for it. I don't care about his injury, or his perceived "draft status," I say reach for the kid. Take him with whatever pick necessary and lock him in. He sounds like the kind of player (when healthy) that can solidify MLB in both the run game, and the passing game.

Agamemnon
02-15-2013, 09:20 AM
why on earth does any body think johnson has any ability to take over the mike spot. hes an undrafted player who is a special teams body.


There have been plenty of undrafted players that have become good or even great NFL starters. Who knows if he will, but I'm not going to outright dismiss the possibility.

Agamemnon
02-15-2013, 09:22 AM
I don't think Brian would play for another team. If they try and trade him, he'll just retire.

If a team with a good shot at a Super Bowl comes knocking I tend to think Urlacher would listen.

rugbythug
02-15-2013, 09:47 AM
IMO Eddie Lacy is the guy we need. Ready to play, his best years will coincide with our peak

JLesSPE
02-15-2013, 10:00 AM
Urlacher is toast. He's incredibly slow, like Gilbert Brown slow. I'd be pissed if Denver signed him. A quality MLB in his prime is way too costly, old and slow won't be an upgrade, the only options I see are to grow the talent we have and/or draft someone.

Kaylore
02-15-2013, 11:09 AM
why on earth does any body think johnson has any ability to take over the mike spot. hes an undrafted player who is a special teams body.

I only say it because the staff and players seem high on him. And this staff and group of players are less prone to doing that than in years past. This isn't "Corey Jackson can start because he's good at pickup basketball" stuff. The staff really likes him. It is a long shot, but this isn't crap I pulled out of my butt.

pricejj
02-15-2013, 11:51 AM
the hell they are! we need upgrades at multiple positions and MLB being the biggest one to help the overall defense.

MLB isn't the reason why the Broncos lost in the playoffs.

Can you remember who the starting MLB was from the years Elway won the Super Bowl? Chances are, he can't either.


The Broncos already said they are going to give Nate Irving a chance to start. By the talk around here, the Broncos should be spending a 1st or 2nd round draft pick every year trying to find the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed. Forget about player development, and the fact that Fox notoriously doesn't play young players...we need to waste more draft picks now!!!11!!11

Irving is a first team All-American MLB, but no, toss him, Keith Brooking, DJ Williams, and Danny Trevathan out, and reach on an unheralded, rookie LB (with average athleticism) in the 1st round to start. Yeah, that'll win us the Super Bowl.


It's Allen Aldridege btw.

Requiem
02-15-2013, 11:54 AM
Actually, Mike Klis speculated that Irving will have a chance to start based on the assumption that old man Keith won't be back and that Irving's base salary for 2013 is much lower than DJ Williams, who is a likely cap casualty or restructure. Nobody from the Denver Broncos has talked about Irving.

DENVERDUI55
02-15-2013, 11:55 AM
It's Allen Aldridege btw.

That is only 50 percent correct. You should Google 98 broncos.

2KBack
02-15-2013, 11:55 AM
MLB isn't the reason why the Broncos lost in the playoffs.

Can you remember who the starting MLB was from the years Elway won the Super Bowl? Chances are, he can't either.


The Broncos already said they are going to give Nate Irving a chance to start. By the talk around here, the Broncos should be spending a 1st or 2nd round draft pick every year trying to find the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed. Forget about player development, and the fact that Fox notoriously doesn't play young players...we need to waste more draft picks now!!!11!!11

Irving is a first team All-American MLB, but no, toss him, Keith Brooking, DJ Williams, and Danny Trevathan out, and bring in an unheralded rookie LB to start. Yeah, that'll win us the Super Bowl.

Te'o and Minter are good, but not that good.

It's Allen Aldridege btw.

only for one year, Glen Cadrez the other

Heyneck
02-15-2013, 12:11 PM
In Irving I trust!!! If we end up going MLB in the draft so be it. But we have a bigger problem with OL and CB depth. Right now I would prefer OL, then CB and then MLB. But I could also look at the situation as us needing a competent 3rd WR and getting one of those new super freak TE. Was pissed when we passed on Rudolph by taking Moore. Still not mad a the Moore pick, just that we had our shot at a really good TE when that years team and QB could have really used one.

pricejj
02-15-2013, 12:16 PM
only for one year, Glen Cadrez the other

Yeah Cadrez in SB33...the 6th round draft pick, multi-year vet. After Aldridge left in free agency (I think).

Both averaged under 50 tackles per year.

pricejj
02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
I've said it before.

The Broncos were willing to trot out Joe Mays as starter the last two years. They now have 5 players better than Mays that they can play at MLB(Brooking, Irving, Williams, Trevathan, and Johnson), and are coming off a top 5 Defensive ranking.

Not that I advocate spending a 1st round draft pick on a CB, but you would think replacing an undrafted FA Nickel CB (Tony Carter) who gave up the game winning TD in the last 30 seconds of the playoff game, would be a slightly higher priority than trying to replace 5 Bronco veterans by reaching in the 1st round on an unexperienced rookie, with average speed, who isn't clearly better than everybody else we have already.


Manning ain't going to be here long.

Requiem
02-15-2013, 12:30 PM
Brooking = not resigned
Williams = restructure or cut
Mays = cut
Trevathan = spot duty LB in nickel situations
Johnson = depth

We need help there, doesn't gotta be first-round, but we need it.

pricejj
02-15-2013, 04:04 PM
Brooking = not resigned
Williams = restructure or cut
Mays = cut
Trevathan = spot duty LB in nickel situations
Johnson = depth

We need help there, doesn't gotta be first-round, but we need it.

Anybody not drafted in the 1st round will not start in 2013. You could make a case for Arthur Brown in the 2nd round...but even then JDR would probably put him behind Brooking or Irving, just like he put Wolfe behind Bannan (until Hunter got hurt).

Ellerbe in FA is a possiblity, but the Broncos don't really have the cap space. Irving is making like $500k, and Brooking would resign another 1 year $1M deal to try to win a SB.

The Broncos, do however, need another backup SOLB. 1st and 2nd round are for starters, so I don't see them picking a backup SOLB until after that.

The crazy thing, is that DJ is still on the team. They're obviously trying to work with him...and it's not to backup WW at WOLB. I would be more than ok with DJ starting at MIKE in 2013. It's logical, if he's affordable. DJ vs. Brooking vs. Irving in camp.

Cito Pelon
02-15-2013, 04:07 PM
IMO, a 3-down MLB is an asset. A guy that commands the defense on all three downs, the QB of the defense. Denver doesn't have one on the roster right now, they should try to find one. Irving, Johnson, Mays, they're ST guys. DJ has the skill to be a decent MLB, but IMO doesn't have the brains and leadership to take the playcall and communicate it properly to his teammates.

They need to find some guys with intestinal fortitude, because they sure didn't have them in the 2012 playoffs.

pricejj
02-15-2013, 04:11 PM
Factors other than MIKE that cost the Broncos the SB in 2012:

1. Tony Carter sucks. Champ got beat like a stepchild.
2. Rahim Moore cheated up too much and was 6 inches short
3. Turnstile at RG that made Manning fumble
4. No pass rush against the Ravens

There's 4 different positions to spend a possible 1st round pick on.

Bmore Manning
02-15-2013, 04:34 PM
I would take Cyprien in the second before I would take Elam in the first..

If you take a RT or RG you either move on from Kuper or move him to another position..

I would take a first round CB but not to play as our Nickel. That's a unique position, and wouldn't require a first round pick..

Pass rush could use some improvement..Particularly interior pressure..

pricejj
02-15-2013, 04:42 PM
I would take Cyprien in the second before I would take Elam in the first..

If you take a RT or RG you either move on from Kuper or move him to another position..

I would take a first round CB but not to play as our Nickel. That's a unique position, and wouldn't require a first round pick..

Pass rush could use some improvement..Particularly interior pressure..

Cyprien has climbed out of our reach (at #57) and is now a top 45 prospect (good job spotting him early on).

Don't think they're going to move on from Kuper yet.

They will try to draft a #1 CB in either round 1 or 2. They don't have a choice.

Gotta get rid of Bannan as the UT, either by replacing him with Wolfe and drafting a 1st round DE (my preference), or by drafting a 1st round UT.

Bmore Manning
02-15-2013, 05:09 PM
If you take a first or second round RT/RG you cannot leave him on the bench.. Kuper is either moved to another position, or moved on.. Can't pay him $5 million to be a back-up.

I am fine with an early CB. But if you take Rhodes, he's not playing in the slot. That's a horrible fit of his skill set. Harris would move back inside or Champ. Not all CBs fit the slot, and I wouldn't draft one early..

I have no issue with drafting an early DE. I just don't like your prospect. Jones or Hunt would be my preference. And I'm not sure about taking either at #28.. Would prefer the second..

pricejj
02-15-2013, 06:36 PM
I am fine with an early CB. But if you take Rhodes, he's not playing in the slot. That's a horrible fit of his skill set. Harris would move back inside or Champ. Not all CBs fit the slot, and I wouldn't draft one early..

I have no issue with drafting an early DE. I just don't like your prospect. Jones or Hunt would be my preference. And I'm not sure about taking either at #28.. Would prefer the second..

Jones or Hunt would be fine, but I don't think Jones will be there at #28, and I don't think Hunt will be there at #58. I don't know why you don't like Montgomery, he's a blue chipper...and to be honest, I don't like the Broncos 2012 scheme, it's like a patchwork with holes in it.

If the Broncos draft someone like Poyer or Alford, they can play in the slot for one year until Champ moves to Safety (or retires)...or you could always move Harris. Or maybe they can add a Nickel CB in free agency...they do have a little money to play with.

Requiem
02-15-2013, 07:02 PM
Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.

Agamemnon
02-15-2013, 07:19 PM
Factors other than MIKE that cost the Broncos the SB in 2012:

1. Tony Carter sucks. Champ got beat like a stepchild.
2. Rahim Moore cheated up too much and was 6 inches short
3. Turnstile at RG that made Manning fumble
4. No pass rush against the Ravens

There's 4 different positions to spend a possible 1st round pick on.

Looking at one sub-par game as the basis of what we need is beyond silly...

DBroncos4life
02-15-2013, 07:30 PM
Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.

I've cooled on him since watching him there. I still wouldn't hate drafting him in the third though. :)

ZONA
02-15-2013, 09:15 PM
I think DJ would be a decent MLB and if playing there from day 1 of the season probably could be a good MLB with all the practice reps. But I still think they need to draft a MLB to see what they might find. I haven't seen enough from Irving to say he's got a real shot at starting. He'll be on the team for depth and further development but he's got some strides to make this year or he could be gone. I still think with improved DT play our LB's could produce better results.

Bmore Manning
02-15-2013, 09:32 PM
Hunt brings more potential in our current scheme at SDE than Wolfe would. But he also brings a bigger bust factor..

Price Montgomery is not a SDE, I'd personally much rather have Oakfor. The big issue here is that the scheme and Miller in particular thrived with Wolfe at DE. I'm more than content leaving it the same and drafting a more disruptive DT.

You don't draft a first round CB to play Nickel during his career. And why play him there if Harris is exceptional there? I think we maybe take a late round prospect to develop but not an early CB..

pricejj
02-15-2013, 09:38 PM
Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.

Really? The dude dominated Hawaii's RT during the bowl game. Thought he was coming around. Forget him then.

Looking at one sub-par game as the basis of what we need is beyond silly...

All the Broncos problems were amplified during the playoff game. Carter, Kuper, pass-rush out of the Nickel formation...all came back to haunt us.



Price Montgomery is not a SDE, I'd personally much rather have Oakfor. The big issue here is that the scheme and Miller in particular thrived with Wolfe at DE. I'm more than content leaving it the same and drafting a more disruptive DT.

Montgomery was an SDE at LSU, and I think he projects that way as a pro. He's not an elite pass-rusher that you need on the weakside...but he's a good-pass rusher, and he plays the run well too. Gotta love his pursuit (which the DL lacked in 2012). He also has a non-stop motor. I would take Okafor too. I'm Wolfe's biggest fan, but he sucks at DE, just no impact at all. Too slow. The Broncos need a Justin Tuck type player (a real 4-3 DE), who can penetrate from anywhere on the line. I think that is Montgomery (or Okafor).


You don't draft a first round CB to play Nickel during his career. And why play him there if Harris is exceptional there? I think we maybe take a late round prospect to develop but not an early CB..

A Nickel CB is pretty much a starter. The good passing teams exploited our nickel CB all year long (NE, Balt). The Broncos need a top-notch 3rd CB if they expect to get to the Superbowl...not a developmental prospect.

cutthemdown
02-15-2013, 09:56 PM
Factors other than MIKE that cost the Broncos the SB in 2012:

1. Tony Carter sucks. Champ got beat like a stepchild.
2. Rahim Moore cheated up too much and was 6 inches short
3. Turnstile at RG that made Manning fumble
4. No pass rush against the Ravens

There's 4 different positions to spend a possible 1st round pick on.

My replies would be

1- Carter doesn't stink, but he's a 3rd or 4th corner at best. Champ played horrid and seemed to sort of lack a lot of fire in that game. I was surprised I thought he would be ready to rock n roll and get to the Superbowl. You can't have enough corners so IMO they are always a target.

2- How that play took place was the epitome of being soft. CB let guy run right buy him, Moore not deep enough. All because they played soft and the coaches coached soft.

3-Our interior oline even when healthy is still a little soft in short yardage. With Kuper banged up interior oline seems to be the most logical spot on offense to expect a high draft pick.

4-Doom and Miller vanished and also had offisides. Just a bad showing by defense overall.

cutthemdown
02-15-2013, 09:59 PM
Personally I question DJ Williams committment to winning football games. He's stated over and over its about the party for him during the week and he then goes 100% football on Sundays. But thats not enough for a middle linebacker and leader of a defense.

Sorry I say pass on DJ Williams and his partying DUI ways. He's old, never lived up to his potential, better on the weakside but not near as good as Woodyard anymore.

Broncos draft a linebacker and DJ might not even make the roster anyways.

ZONA
02-16-2013, 12:58 AM
Moore didn't cheat up too far and wasn't out of position. Watch the tape again. He was deep enough and had good position, he just cut it off too soon and timed the jump very badly. In that circumstance, you can even say he shouldn't have gone for the ball at all. Just play the defender and make sure it's either an incomplete pass or a tackle. No need to even play the damn ball. Ah yes, here we are again going over this play, ugh.

Bmore Manning
02-16-2013, 05:39 AM
Price, the only thing keeping our D from being a 3-4, is Doom being in a two point stance. Wolfe played like a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DE.. The hybrid scheme we run accentuates what Miller does best. I would not mess with the combo.. You put a smaller body in front of Miller and it compromises our scheme..

elsid13
02-16-2013, 05:56 AM
Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.

That why I called him a 4th rounder.

Mediator12
02-16-2013, 07:50 AM
Moore didn't cheat up too far and wasn't out of position. Watch the tape again. He was deep enough and had good position, he just cut it off too soon and timed the jump very badly. In that circumstance, you can even say he shouldn't have gone for the ball at all. Just play the defender and make sure it's either an incomplete pass or a tackle. No need to even play the damn ball. Ah yes, here we are again going over this play, ugh.

Go read the article at NFP from Matt Bowen here:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-Playoffs-revisited-Jones-TD-grab-vs-Broncos.html

That is what actually happened. Moore allowed the outside Vertical to get behind him before the ball was thrown, that is poor play recognition, and even worse recovery once beaten.

It simply was a terrible mental effort, followed by poor technique once beaten. Nothing more, nothing less. It can be corrected, but is Moore a coachable kid or is he just not capable of learning. This is my question to JDR and staff next week. And believe me, I will ask it ;D

pricejj
02-16-2013, 10:43 AM
Price, the only thing keeping our D from being a 3-4, is Doom being in a two point stance. Wolfe played like a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DE.. The hybrid scheme we run accentuates what Miller does best. I would not mess with the combo.. You put a smaller body in front of Miller and it compromises our scheme..

I think, to win the Superbowl, the Broncos are going to have to play a majority of the playoffs (against elite QB's) out of the Nickel formation (4-2-5), just like the Ravens did. There are a few factors at play here:

1. The Broncos CANNOT stop the run effectively out of the Nickel formation. There are two reasons for this. a) Their LB's (Woodyard, Brooking), aren't good enough at fighting off blocks and making the tackle. b) Their DL is too slow in pursuit to the outside (Vickerson, Bannan, Wolfe) or easily blockable (Dumervil). Replacing Brooking with someone better (Irving?), and replacing Wolfe at DE with a faster player (Montgomery) will help alleviate this.

2. Von Miller is able to be double-teamed when the Broncos are only rushing 4...rendering the Broncos pass-rush non-existent. Adding another bonafide pass-rusher to the mix is the only way to solve this problem. In the draft, that would either be Sam Montgomery, Alex Okafor, or maybe Kawann Short. Though, I don't like the idea of adding Kawann Short, because I want Wolfe at UT.

3. Champ is on the verge of not being able to guard elite WR's in single-coverage anymore. This severely comprimises the Broncos secondary scheme, which compensates to account for the relatively weak coverage ability of every one else in the secondary (Harris, Carter, Adams). They NEED to go with 2-deep Safeties against elite QB's (for the most part) from here on out. Replacing Carter (at Nickel CB), is the best way the Broncos can remedy this situation for now. Allowing for 5 dB's (instead of 4), gives both Harris and Bailey help over the top (which they both need now).

All Defenses are in effect like a house-of-cards, where one weak link will make the entire scheme crumble. The Broncos are no different. Playing with a 5 man line (3-4 as you call it), leaves the Broncos too vulnerable in the secondary. They won't be able to beat elite QB's that way, and they know it.

Bmore Manning
02-16-2013, 01:12 PM
Playing as a disguised 3-4 was to address the weakness against the run. Two gapping everyone one the line except Doom allowed our two best defensive front 7 players to do what they do best, and that's hunt. It also masked the defencies of our LBs, allowing them to flow to the ball and make a play.

Make no mistake about it, Wolfe is a huge reason for Millers success this year, as I have called him the peanut butter to Von's Jelly. He is as important to Miller as Justin Smith is to Aldon Smith. Why change that? I love our hybrid scheme. Sure I think Wolfe could play UT in a true 4-3, but he has a similar role now in our scheme, but of greater importance, because he facilitates Von Miller. If Wolfe is moved inside, we need a DE who can set the edge and allow Von to come around. If you put a smaller body there, you are compromising the scheme...

Seattle runs a very similar scheme. Doom would act as the Leo or the permanent rusher off of the weak side. Sometimes they one-gap the DT next to him (Branch) and Mebane (NT) and Red Bryant (DE) two gap. That's it in terms of pass rush, and they will bring Irvin at SOLB off the edge like Miller in obvious passing downs. We have a huge advantage in that Wolfe is way more athletic then Red Bryant. And Miller plays most of the downs unlike Irvin. Wolfe will grow and develop more, he was only a rookie! Where Seattle has the tremendous upper hand aside from MLB, is their secondary. Sherman is in my opinion the second best CB in the NFL, and Browner is so physical at disrupting a WR in bump and run.

We don't have press man corners....

That ability to blanket their WRs allow that pass rush more time to get home. It allows Seattle the ability to scheme their LBs and Safeties into the passing game. What I think our scheme needs is the ability to get home from the inside, whether that means sliding Wolfe inside or drafting a disruptive DT.

Truthfully price either way could work, but if you move Wolfe inside you need a DE, if you leave Wolfe at DE you need a pressure DT. Your substituting one for one. It depends who's available come #28 and then you factor in that it takes rookie DTs time to develop and that puts us back at square one where it's just our best guess..

My question is can Ayers, or Jackson, or Beal, or Hunter, or a FA, or a rookie free up Von while setting the edge in run defense like Wolfe? At the beginning of the year I didn't like Wolfe at DE, but when I found out/saw we were two gapping, he really grew on me at DE..

Time will tell if we stay as a masked 3-4 or switch thing up to a more traditional 4-3 with Wolfe at UT. Personally I like the scheme how it is and would improve on it, rather than make new changes..

pricejj
02-16-2013, 01:39 PM
Truthfully price either way could work, but if you move Wolfe inside you need a DE, if you leave Wolfe at DE you need a pressure DT. Your substituting one for one. It depends who's available come #28 and then you factor in that it takes rookie DTs time to develop and that puts us back at square one where it's just our best guess..

Great analysis. An impact UT is perhaps the most difficult player to find (other than QB). We have one in Wolfe. I think he is a better UT than any other UT the Broncos are going to find at #28 (including Kawann Short, who is older than Wolfe BTW). I would be happy with Sam Montgomery or (possibly) Datone Jones at #28. Bannan should be (and has always) been a backup.



My question is can Ayers, or Jackson, or Beal, or Hunter, or a FA, or a rookie free up Von while setting the edge in run defense like Wolfe? At the beginning of the year I didn't like Wolfe at DE, but when I found out/saw we were two gapping, he really grew on me at DE.

Robert Ayers - Never been a pass rusher (only 3 sacks as a Sr. in college, his "big" year).
Malik Jackson - Could be a poor man's Datone Jones (don't know, I haven't really seen him play). Not fast, and not many sacks in college.
Jason Hunter - Perennial backup, averages 2 sacks per year in his 6 year NFL career. The only reason he was a starter before he was injured was because he was trying harder than everyone else in training camp and starting fights every day.

Bmore Manning
02-16-2013, 07:40 PM
I'm wondering if one of my favorite late round prospects Cooper Taylor could play MLB..?

Gutless Drunk
02-16-2013, 08:45 PM
"Alec Ogletee charged with DUI

Former Georgia linebacker Alec Ogletree, a likely first-round pick in the 2013 draft and one of the top prospects at inside linebacker, was arrested recently for DUI.

It’s not the first red flag on Ogletree’s record. During the 2012 college football season, Ogletree was suspended four games by the Bulldogs after a positive drug test."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/16/alec-ogletee-charged-with-dui/

schaaf
02-16-2013, 08:54 PM
You son of a bitch

pricejj
02-16-2013, 10:07 PM
Klis -

"The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience. Irving was Denver's third-round draft pick in 2011 and was hurt as much as any player by the NFL lockout that year, but he flashed ability in 2012. Johnson was an undrafted rookie last season."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay

Rack 'em and stack 'em. :sunshine:

schaaf
02-16-2013, 11:35 PM
That would be perfect if one of these two have shown enough to make the coaches believe theyre the future

KipCorrington25
02-17-2013, 12:35 AM
He's still better than Mays of course King Tut's mummy is as well it trips up more RB's.

Agamemnon
02-17-2013, 12:55 AM
Klis -

"The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience. Irving was Denver's third-round draft pick in 2011 and was hurt as much as any player by the NFL lockout that year, but he flashed ability in 2012. Johnson was an undrafted rookie last season."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay

Rack 'em and stack 'em. :sunshine:

Smokescreen!!! ;)

BroncoBuff
02-17-2013, 08:55 AM
I don't like Miller coming off the field so much. I think with Von and Woodyard, MLB is a two-down spot here, meaning I'm less concerned than I was last year.

That said, Teo could fall to us ... couldn't say no to that.

TheReverend
02-17-2013, 09:30 AM
Smokescreen!!! ;)

Inclined to believe this, especially when you consider that Klis will write whatever they tell him to write.

TheReverend
02-17-2013, 09:42 AM
I don't like Miller coming off the field so much. I think with Von and Woodyard, MLB is a two-down spot here, meaning I'm less concerned than I was last year.

That said, Teo could fall to us ... couldn't say no to that.

How so?

BroncoBuff
02-17-2013, 09:53 AM
http://cointrackers.com/img/coins/1929-s-buffalo-nickel.png

How. That how.

BroncoBuff
02-17-2013, 09:56 AM
Plus like I said, I don't like Miller coming off the field so much, doesn't make sense to me. Unless it's physical, is it? DJ and a hopefully developing Irving seems pretty good, I'm thinking a RB or that North Carolina guard in Round 1.

TheReverend
02-17-2013, 10:33 AM
http://cointrackers.com/img/coins/1929-s-buffalo-nickel.png

How. That how.

Plus like I said, I don't like Miller coming off the field so much, doesn't make sense to me. Unless it's physical, is it? DJ and a hopefully developing Irving seems pretty good, I'm thinking a RB or that North Carolina guard in Round 1.

So you think in the nickel Miller is a coverage LB?

When was the last time you caught a Bronco game?

NFLBRONCO
02-17-2013, 11:05 AM
Really cooled on Te'o I hope he isn't a Bronco.

Tombstone RJ
02-17-2013, 01:34 PM
Klis -

"The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience. Irving was Denver's third-round draft pick in 2011 and was hurt as much as any player by the NFL lockout that year, but he flashed ability in 2012. Johnson was an undrafted rookie last season."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay

Rack 'em and stack 'em. :sunshine:

hard to know if this is bs or not. The Broncos said last year they were ok with their DTs for the most part and they didn't really do anything of note in FA to address this. Then they drafted Wolfe in the 2nd round.

My gut instinct tells me the Broncos will take the BPA at their #28 pick and that could be a DT, an ILB, a RB, an offensive line, or a CB or Safety. All I can say with confidence is that it probably won't be a QB.

But with the depth at DT, I'm thinking they will go with DT. It's really hard to say. I hope the draft Minter in the first and a DT in the second.

Bmore Manning
02-17-2013, 02:02 PM
I really like the later round MLB prospects.. I think Ogaltree is best suited for OLB, and Minter in a 3-4. Brown could certainly play MLB or OLB, but I'm not sure he will be the best player available at #28. I really only think Te'o is a first round MLB, and that's difficult to say because I like Brown alot..

BroncoBuff
02-17-2013, 05:29 PM
So you think in the nickel Miller is a coverage LB? When was the last time you caught a Bronco game?

Where to begin? First, I said nothing like that. Miller in coverage on passing downs? That notion (if it even qualifies as a notion) was yours alone. No, Woodyard is nails in coverage, in fact they're really a prototypical SLB-WLB pair, I'd like to see both of them on the field for as many downs as they can manage. I don't like to see either one pulled.

Now, slow down ... before you respond, ask yourself: Do you really want to have another Von Miller debate with me? Before answering, think back, try to remember how the last one turned out ... opening night 2011? MNF v Raiders? Allow me to refresh your recollection: An hour or two before kickoff, Von's first game in the league. I'm snacking away, can't wait for Opening Night of the VON-DOOM SACK-TACULAR. I throw on my rose-colored glasses and exclaim "Von will lead the league in sacks this year!" (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3285268)


http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif


"You're insanely insane!" you bellowed as you rallied the nay-sayers. In a few short moments I was being pressed from all sides, "how many sacks will he get Buff?" "Yeah Buff, how many?" I paused for a moment, considered all the factors, and predicted "Realistically, 12 sacks." (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3285324&highlight=sacks#post3285324)

That sent you right through the roof, "WHAAT?! "You call 12 sacks realistic?!" (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3285349) Of course it was realistic. Or more accurately, it was CORRECT rounded to the nearest whole integer. Should point out mine wasn't the only well-reasoned forecast in that thread. My gear-jammin' good buddy's Spidey-sense prompted him to predict, "two seasons from now, people could be talking about Von Miller as the best defensive player in the NFL."

But by this time you were too far gone to appreciate any of that. Not sure what got you started that day, honestly I don't think it was me. You are a man of the cloth, maybe you were mad at the camel jockeys, maybe it's the Hebes, Northern Ireland, it's none of my business. I just wanted to get back to my popcorn.

No such luck ... you eagerly pounced on an off-hand comment I had made, wondering how Miller's body would hold up to the pounding of a long season, said he's not a "huge guy." At that moment your every single-minded obsessively-fueled goal became discrediting my notion (and it barely qualified as a notion) that Von Miller was on the small side for his position. You feverishly typed out every.single.SLB.in.the.league.and.his.weight (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3288562&postcount=36) (conveniently omitting the larger SLBs on 3-4 teams, something I hadn't done), then compared Von to your list and PRESTO! Von was an above-average size at his position! "I TOLD YOU BUFF!"

Only problem was (well, not the only problem, but the biggest of several problems) was you used the wrong weight for Miller. You used a 245 figure from who knows where. The Denver Broncos officially list Von Miller at 237 (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Von-Miller/036470c3-df00-47e4-a936-86200f2c88dc). So then, of the 16 SLBs on your list, there were just 6 lighter than Miller ... and 4 of them were just one to three pounds lighter. Add in the 3-4 SLBs I never intended to omit, and next gust of wind might carry poor Vonnie off! He's among the 7 or 8 lightest starting SLBs in the league.

So long story short, that's why you should maybe think before joining another Von Miller debate with me.

Just my two cents.

Bmore Manning
02-17-2013, 05:38 PM
http://cointrackers.com/img/coins/1929-s-buffalo-nickel.png

How. That how.

That was the perception I had too. I think the FO knew Mays was a 2 down MLB, same thing with Brooking, though he played many snaps in Nickel. But good QBs will recognize the two down thumper and exploit that with the quick pass.

So I agree that because of our Nickel use a MLB isn't a huge priority, but that could also be because a true 4-3 three down MLB are few and far between. That's the only reason to let Irving/Johnson compete. It's either a smoke screen or the honest truth that we won't search for a MLB. But if a Te'o was there at 28 or Brown in the second, how could you not take one and upgrade the position..?

misturanderson
02-17-2013, 05:56 PM
Doesn't Miller usually play LDE in nickle? How would getting another LB affect Miller or Woodyard being on the field in nickle?

gyldenlove
02-17-2013, 05:57 PM
Klis -

"The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience. Irving was Denver's third-round draft pick in 2011 and was hurt as much as any player by the NFL lockout that year, but he flashed ability in 2012. Johnson was an undrafted rookie last season."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay

Rack 'em and stack 'em. :sunshine:

I wasn't quite sure we would draft MLB early, but now I am pretty certain it will be MLB and DT in rounds 1 and 2.

BroncoBuff
02-17-2013, 05:59 PM
That was the perception I had too. I think the FO knew Mays was a 2 down MLB, same thing with Brooking, though he played many snaps in Nickel. But good QBs will recognize the two down thumper and exploit that with the quick pass.

So I agree that because of our Nickel use a MLB isn't a huge priority, but that could also be because a true 4-3 three down MLB are few and far between. That's the only reason to let Irving/Johnson compete. It's either a smoke screen or the honest truth that we won't search for a MLB. But if a Te'o was there at 28 or Brown in the second, how could you not take one and upgrade the position..?

Can't say no to Te'o at 28, unless somebody else falls.

I think you're right, good QBs should recognize a 2-down thumper and exploit him on passing downs. But you also mentioned how Brooking took lots of nickel snaps, and we had the #3 defense in football.

I think there's more to the whole picture. Guys who really know football intricacies, Rev SoCal Khan eddie mac Drek, whomever ... I get the suspicion there's too much certainty there. All kidding aside from the post above, but I keep remembering a very long story I read waiting at O'Hare couple summers ago. The thesis, and numerous coordinators and coaches chimed in agreement, is the #1 thing they do is deception, trying to disguise, "trick" their opponent to a degree. They said nearly every play includes elements of it, and they're preoccupied with it during the game. I think this aspect of the game is underappreciated.

Bmore Manning
02-17-2013, 06:03 PM
Doesn't Miller usually play LDE in nickle? How would getting another LB affect Miller or Woodyard being on the field in nickle?

That's correct, it would mean less LBs on the field and usually more DBs. It's a 4-2 alignment or 3-3. When we see in those sub packages it de emphasizes MLB and puts 2 coverage LBs on the field.. Since we have Woodyard and Trevethan that normally do that. It doesn't mean we could use a MLB for that. But it takes away the dire need for a three down MLB.

Bmore Manning
02-17-2013, 06:14 PM
I wasn't quite sure we would draft MLB early, but now I am pretty certain it will be MLB and DT in rounds 1 and 2.

That would mean smoke screen. And when Elway was speaking about Te'o I thought, they really want him and just want to put the perception out there that this guy has issues a front office would be silly to draft him.

It makes sense your theory.. The prospects we looked at were third round and back.. Cyprien/Thomas better 3rd round value.. Winter G 4th.. Gooden OLB 5th... But come combine and draft day all bets are off..

Agamemnon
02-17-2013, 07:09 PM
Inclined to believe this, especially when you consider that Klis will write whatever they tell him to write.

I really have no opinion one way or the other. It may be a smokescreen or it may be true. I'm just hoping they aren't making the same judgment error with Irving and/or Johnson that they made with Mays.

TheReverend
02-17-2013, 07:10 PM
Where to begin? First, I said nothing like that. Miller in coverage on passing downs? That notion (if it even qualifies as a notion) was yours alone. No, Woodyard is nails in coverage, in fact they're really a prototypical SLB-WLB pair, I'd like to see both of them on the field for as many downs as they can manage. I don't like to see either one pulled.

I cant fathom someone watching football as long as you have and being this ignorant of it.

BECAUSE VON RUSHES THE PASSER is why we need another coverage linebacker in the nickel, you annoying ****ing twit.

pricejj
02-17-2013, 07:31 PM
hard to know if this is bs or not. The Broncos said last year they were ok with their DTs for the most part and they didn't really do anything of note in FA to address this. Then they drafted Wolfe in the 2nd round.

They never said they were "ok" with the DT's in the 2012 offseason. They offered Bunkley a contract, then they offered Soliai a contract. They got neither, so they drafted Wolfe. Then they signed Bannan.

I don't think they're going to go after MLB's this offseason. It's not hard to imagine Irving playing as good, or better than Brooking played in 2012. Though I wouldn't be mad if they did. They know what they have in Irving and Johnson.

pricejj
02-17-2013, 07:43 PM
I wasn't quite sure we would draft MLB early, but now I am pretty certain it will be MLB and DT in rounds 1 and 2.

I don't think so.

They absolutely MUST acquire another top flight CB due to the pending departure of Tracy Porter, and UDFA Tony Carter's lazy, incosistent play. I would bet the farm that they pick a CB in round 1 or 2.

I also think they drafted Wolfe to play UT, and I think he will start there this season. I hope they draft a real impact 4-3 DE in round 1.

gyldenlove
02-17-2013, 09:11 PM
I don't think so.

They absolutely MUST acquire another top flight CB due to the pending departure of Tracy Porter, and UDFA Tony Carter's lazy, incosistent play. I would bet the farm that they pick a CB in round 1 or 2.

I also think they drafted Wolfe to play UT, and I think he will start there this season. I hope they draft a real impact 4-3 DE in round 1.

DE is one of the worst positions to draft, the failure rate is extremely high even in the 1st round - the probability of getting an impact RDE is minimal in this draft, RDE is not a strong position this year with only 2 real 1st round candidates (Datone Jones, Ezekiel Ansah) and both of those come with the same problems Robert Ayers, lack of consistent performance, lack of starter experience.

CB would be nice, but I expect them to go with a veteran in FA on a one year deal. Bolden and a veteran should be enough to give some options at nickel over Carter and nobody is going to take Champ and Harris starter positions.

Agamemnon
02-17-2013, 09:18 PM
I don't think so.

They absolutely MUST acquire another top flight CB due to the pending departure of Tracy Porter, and UDFA Tony Carter's lazy, incosistent play. I would bet the farm that they pick a CB in round 1 or 2.

I also think they drafted Wolfe to play UT, and I think he will start there this season. I hope they draft a real impact 4-3 DE in round 1.

Why on earth would we draft a DE in the first round when we already have the best edge rushing duo in the league? That makes no sense...

pricejj
02-17-2013, 11:08 PM
CB would be nice, but I expect them to go with a veteran in FA on a one year deal. Bolden and a veteran should be enough to give some options at nickel over Carter and nobody is going to take Champ and Harris starter positions.

1. They are only have about $3M to spend in Free Agency (as of right now).
2. It's possible they get another 1 year vet, but it's much better to get somebody in the mix(longterm) who can learn from Champ, help get us to the SB, and possibly take over for him in 2014.

Why on earth would we draft a DE in the first round when we already have the best edge rushing duo in the league? That makes no sense...

Tell the NY Giants that it made no sense to draft Jason Pierre-Paul #15 in the 2010 draft even though they had Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck. Or how about when they had Strahan and Osi, and drafted Tuck.

If you double Von Miller, the Broncos pass-rush is dead in the water.

KevinJames
02-17-2013, 11:14 PM
Middle Linebacker is probably one of the most overrated positions in football.

Unless your MLB is the leader and the guy calling plays for the defense it really is an overrated position.

For the Broncos all we need is a 2 down linebacker that can play the middle. Steven Johnson and Nate Irving can battle it out and fill that role just fine I am sure. or restructure DJ and slap him in the middle. MLB is the least important role in the Denver defense.

Broncos Base Nickle Package should be something like

3 CBs (Champ, Harris, Bolden or Carter)
2 Safeties (Moore, ?) I'd like to see a true veteran S here not Adams
2 LBs (Woodyard & Trevathan)
3 DE (one of them being Von the other being Wolfe as a DT)
1 DT (Vickerson? or Draft Pick)

BroncoBuff
02-18-2013, 12:52 AM
I cant fathom someone watching football as long as you have and being this ignorant of it.

BECAUSE VON RUSHES THE PASSER is why we need another coverage linebacker in the nickel, you annoying ****ing twit.

Oh that CUTS IT! Tell me where you are right now dammit, we're settling this TONIGHT!!

Seriously though, how is another coverage LB so mandatory? Woodyard is nails in coverage and Trevathan should be working into the rotation asap. And I never actually said anything about that, I said two things: 1) I don't like Miller coming off the field, and 2) MLB is the least important role in the Denver defense..

You really believe I don't know Von rushes the passer? That's sad.

Bacchus
02-18-2013, 06:40 AM
Drafting Shariff Floyd would make and average LB look good.

pricejj
02-18-2013, 03:03 PM
Just as soon as I dish on Mayock, he comes correct with the DE ratings in this draft. He's got Sam Montgomery near the top, and isn't so high on some of the other's (Mingo, Jones, or Jordan). Exactamento!

TheReverend
02-18-2013, 03:29 PM
Oh that CUTS IT! Tell me where you are right now dammit, we're settling this TONIGHT!!

Seriously though, how is another coverage LB so mandatory? Woodyard is nails in coverage and Trevathan should be working into the rotation asap. And I never actually said anything about that, I said two things: 1) I don't like Miller coming off the field, and 2) MLB is the least important role in the Denver defense..

You really believe I don't know Von rushes the passer? That's sad.

Nickel packages constitute approximately 2/3 of the defensive snaps.

There's a reason we were chewed up over the middle ALL SEASON long, and Trevathan and his whopping 3 PDs is not the answer.

Also, none of this has anything to do with Miller and whether or not he comes off the field.

You're seriously one of the more football incompetent people on the entire message board and I literally can't fathom how someone could possibly be this ignorant. You're like a small child in a grown, ugly man's body.

Cito Pelon
02-18-2013, 03:49 PM
Just as soon as I dish on Mayock, he comes correct with the DE ratings in this draft. He's got Sam Montgomery near the top, and isn't so high on some of the other's (Mingo, Jones, or Jordan). Exactamento!

Your football takes are ok, but your Louisville Spanish sucks. It's "exacto", or "exactamente". Jebus, you probably say "correctamundo" also, no? :)

Bigdawg26
02-18-2013, 06:27 PM
The only Mike I would be happy with is Minter. I would much rather get a play making safety like Eric Reid with our first pick. I would really be happy with Bostic in the 4th or 3rd though. A DT would be cool but I would be happy with resigning Big Vick and Bannan (for depth) and signing Knighton.

pricejj
02-18-2013, 10:01 PM
Your football takes are ok, but your Louisville Spanish sucks. It's "exacto", or "exactamente". Jebus, you probably say "correctamundo" also, no? :)

Lociento Suave-mente, didn't mean to ruffle your sombrero. :sunshine:

Viva La Rasa!!! ooooooohhhyayayaaaah!!!

Pick Six
02-18-2013, 10:43 PM
eh, Brown should be there. but after the last MLB from KSU i'm kind of skeptical on drafting him. Pierce's bomb out makes me cynical of KSU.
Granted Brown is a nice talent.

Ummm...what? :spit:

I'll tell you what. I'll see your Pierce and raise you Terence Newman and Jordy Nelson. :wave:

True story: I once met Pierce, and introduced myself as a Broncos fan. I don't really know why Pierce didn't work out, but he CLAIMS that he just didn't get along with Shanahan. Take it for what it's worth...:ouwknow:

pricejj
02-18-2013, 10:57 PM
True story: I once met Pierce, and introduced myself as a Broncos fan. I don't really know why Pierce didn't work out, but he CLAIMS that he just didn't get along with Shanahan. Take it for what it's worth...:ouwknow:

The dude was mega-flat footed. You could tell in preseason that he wasn't a playmaker. Then he had a slew of injuries.

Cito Pelon
02-18-2013, 11:10 PM
Lociento Suave-mente, didn't mean to ruffle your sombrero. :sunshine:

Viva La Rasa!!! ooooooohhhyayayaaaah!!!

"Lo siento", not what you said, cabron. :) Perdoneme would be more appropriate. Not bad for Front Range Spanish, though. "Suavo" is what you meant to say, verdad? :) Just a little more refinement . . . . .

DBroncos4life
02-20-2013, 04:23 PM
Broncos | MLB will be a focus at combine
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:07:58 -0800

The Denver Broncos will closely look at the performances of middle linebacker prospects during the NFL Scouting Combine. Notre Dame LB Manti Te'o could be an option in the first round if he slips.

0 Comments | Source: ESPN.com - Bill Williamson |



Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL?page=2#ixzz2LU6Ku9f7

Play2win
02-20-2013, 04:38 PM
Elway: "Dammit, Bill don't you understand what kind of game we're playing here?!?"

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2013, 05:12 PM
Bill Williamson has the best job in the world. Really. I think he works about 45 min a day

Lestat
02-22-2013, 09:07 AM
ok, fine i'll admit it for now. we're not likely to take a MLB early. Elway said in his presser that the focus was on the nickel D and Irving + Johnson competing for the spot in camp.

i think it's GM speak but... for now it could be not likely that was draft a MLB.
which means no excuse to not get some DT's and a RB.

Rascal
02-22-2013, 09:54 AM
Fox was asked if Nate Irving is ready to become the team's starting middle linebacker — alongside Wesley Woodyard at weakside linebacker and Von Miller at strongside linebacker — after not playing much in his first two seasons with the Broncos.

"I don't know that yet," Fox said. "We know he's definitely capable. He's going to get an opportunity. We've got some young players who need to graduate into more playing time. I feel confident that he'll do that."



Read more: Broncos safety Rahim Moore targeted by coach John Fox to show more growth - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22642019/john-fox-eager-see-more-imporvement-from-broncos#ixzz2LeE1VETx
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Rascal
02-22-2013, 10:07 AM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/21/ranking-the-2013-free-agents-linebackers/

1. Daryl Smith

2012 Grade: -1.3
2012 Snaps: 117

Summary: This long-time Jacksonville Jaguar hasn’t gotten as much attention as he deserves since joining the league in 2004. He spent nearly all of the 2012 season injured and played only in the last two games. Prior to that he was the standard for 4-3 outside linebackers. In 2011 he finished third in Run Stop Percentage at 10.6%, in Pass Rushing Productivity (for those with at least 50 pass rushes) at 13.0, and in Yards per Coverage Snap at 0.67. Many of the free agent linebackers available are good at one or two of those things, but he is the rare talent who can do it all. He will be 31 in a month, so his best football might be behind him, but even if he can’t reach the same heights he once did, he can still be a great upgrade for most teams.

2. Erin Henderson

2012 Grade: +1.0
2012 Snaps: 702

Summary: In 2011, Henderson emerged as a starter with the Minnesota Vikings and made his presence known in the run game. An early-season injury caused him to miss some time and he didn’t play as well during the middle of the season, but he still managed the sixth best Run Stop Percentage, at 9.8%. Despite the few poor games midseason post-injury, in other games he showed flashes of dominance, including games with a +5.3 and +4.2 Run Defense rating. He might be best suited as a two-down player, as he has only seven games as an every-down player, but his dominance against the run can’t be ignored.

3. Brad Jones

2012 Grade: +9.0
2012 Snaps: 688

Summary: After some underwhelming play as a 3-4 outside linebacker, the Packers moved Jones to inside linebacker. Then Green Bay had injures at the position which allowed Jones to emerge as an every-down starter. He managed a positive run defense rating in nine of 11 regular season games. In coverage, he allowed a 68.4% Catch Rate, which was fifth best for middle/inside linebackers who were targeted at least 30 times. He might lack highlight plays, so fans might not be excited to have someone like Brad Jones on their team, but the fact that he can play both run and coverage well makes him a valuable option.

4. Philip Wheeler

2012 Grade: +9.8
2012 Snaps: 1,044

Summary: After spending his first few years in the league with the Colts, for the 2012 season Wheeler signed a one-year deal with the Raiders and emerged as an every-down starter. Although this isn’t the main role of a 4-3 outside linebacker, he was most impressive as a pass rusher, where he managed three sacks, 14 hits and 13 hurries on 126 pass rushes. He had a breakout game against the Steelers when he forced fumbles of both the starting Steeler receivers. His low Run Stop Percentage of 5.4% is a concern, although it was better in his last year with the Colts. At worst he seems a very effective nickel linebacker, and at best an every-down player who becomes an average run defender.

5. Nick Barnett

2012 Grade: +6.0
2012 Snaps: 1,025

Summary: After two decent years in Buffalo, the Bills released the veteran linebacker. He showed sparks in 2012 of still being a great player, recording four games with four or more stops. He had a positive coverage grade in 2012, in large part due to quarterbacks avoiding him. His 9.4 cover snaps per target was the highest in the league for 4-3 outside linebackers. His Tackling Efficiency of 17.2 was sixth-best for 4-3 outside linebackers with at least 50 tackles. By the time the 2013 season hits he will be 32, so he won’t be making an impact in the league much longer. However, he can be a short-term fix as an every-down linebacker.

6. Leroy Hill

2012 Grade: +4.8
2012 Snaps: 514

Summary: Early in the 2012 season Hill lost his spot as an every-down linebacker due to the emergence of Bobby Wagner, but still played in the base defense. In his limited playing time he remained a decent run stopping linebacker, posting a Run Stop Percentage of 7.4%. In 2011, when he was an every-down linebacker, he allowed just 0.69 Yards per Coverage Snap which was fourth-best in the league for 4-3 outside linebackers. The fact the Seahawks began giving time to Malcolm Smith late in the season could mean Hill is out in Seattle. He is also on the wrong side of 30, but he can still fill the role of an every-down or part-time 4-3 outside linebacker wherever he is added.

7. Brian Urlacher

2012 Grade: -11.2
2012 Snaps: 727

Summary: In 2012 it was very clear Brian Urlacher wasn’t the player he once was when stopping the run. His Tackling Efficiency of 5.0 in the run game was the worst among inside/middle linebackers. The reason he makes this list is he is still a very good player in coverage. He had five passes defended, which was tied for the second among inside/middle linebackers, and his 0.70 Yards per Coverage Snap was fifth-best at the position. He is one of those players that is hard to imagine in any other uniform than the Bears’ blue and orange, but with a new coaching regime he might need to finish his playing days elsewhere. It might be pricy to have this eight-time Pro Bowler, but it looks like he still has some football left in him.

8. Justin Durant

2012 Grade: -0.1
2012 Snaps: 875

Summary: Over the past three years, Durant has shown in both Jacksonville and Detroit that he can make big plays in the run game. His Run Stop Percentage of 9.9% was fourth at his position in 2012. The problem is he also misses a lot of tackles ,with 14 missed this year and 10 the previous year. He had the sixth-worst Coverage Rating in 2012 in large part due to his missed tackles, but was average in both his catch rate allowed and his yards per catch allowed. He is a two-down or borderline three-down player that is high risk/high reward in his play.

9. Kaluka Maiava

2012 Grade: +7.9
2012 Snaps: 498

Summary: If a team wants a younger option at linebacker, Kaluka Maiava emerged as a solid part-time player in the Browns’ defense in 2012. The 2009 fourth-round pick’s best asset was his play in coverage where he allowed 0.50 Yards per Coverage Snap, which was by far the lowest for 4-3 outside linebackers, although it came on only 156 coverage snaps. He never allowed a catch longer than 15 yards on the year which helped keep that number low. His low Tackling Efficiency of 7.7 is a reason to be concerned, but the potential is there to be a good nickel linebacker.

10. Thomas Howard

2012 Grade: +2.3
2012 Snaps: 62

Summary: In 2012, Howard played in Week 1, and proceeded to miss the rest of the season with an injury. In 2011, Howard was used as an every-down linebacker with the Bengals, but might be best suited for a nickel linebacker role. He allowed a 73.4% catch rate and 8.7 yards per catch, which were both below league average, and he had an additional three passes defended for good measure. Thomas has said his knee is doing “absolutely fabulous”, so despite missing 2012 he should be ready to go in 2013.

Rascal
02-22-2013, 10:11 AM
ok, fine i'll admit it for now. we're not likely to take a MLB early. Elway said in his presser that the focus was on the nickel D and Irving + Johnson competing for the spot in camp.
i think it's GM speak but... for now it could be not likely that was draft a MLB.
which means no excuse to not get some DT's and a RB.

link?

Rascal
02-22-2013, 10:14 AM
Brad Jones and Phillip Wheeler would be interesting.

broncocalijohn
02-22-2013, 10:31 AM
"Alec Ogletee charged with DUI

Former Georgia linebacker Alec Ogletree, a likely first-round pick in the 2013 draft and one of the top prospects at inside linebacker, was arrested recently for DUI.

It’s not the first red flag on Ogletree’s record. During the 2012 college football season, Ogletree was suspended four games by the Bulldogs after a positive drug test."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/16/alec-ogletee-charged-with-dui/

So cut DJ and draft him so we have DJ the II?

Lestat
02-22-2013, 04:57 PM
link?

they had it live on ESPN, they cut into sportscenter when he was doing a presser. cool ass jacket on him btw.

oubronco
02-22-2013, 06:04 PM
Mike Klis‏<S>@</S>MikeKlis
Manti Te'o is on John Elway's interview schedule. "I don't get caught up in - everything swirling around him.'' http://sulia.com/c/denver-broncos/f/fe119423-e487-48a4-a3f2-f2d24a87a9a3/?source=twitter … (http://t.co/c7QHDL8G1U)

Baba Booey
02-22-2013, 07:13 PM
Minter.

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 12:24 AM
i heard one site say Minter excells in coverage. But then some other sit said hes a run stopper but needs work in coverage. LOL so which is it.

cutthemdown
02-23-2013, 12:25 AM
Broncos should get bigger and meaner at DT, then look for a MLB who can run and cover and maybe isn't super big. its all about stopping TE and RBs in the passing game right now. Teams dont even run the ball much.

barryr
02-23-2013, 06:54 AM
LB's in general are a need since Irving hasn't progressed, Brooking is old, and DJ Williams is mostly a nonfactor, which has been the case for awhile now. A tough DT would be nice and a big hitting SS would also be great.

TonyR
02-23-2013, 12:14 PM
In 2012, two players in particular always seemed to be around the ball on special teams.

Linebackers Nate Irving and Steven Johnson tied for the team lead with 10 special-teams stops for the year. That knack for tackling the ball-carrier will be even more necessary in 2013, when both players are expected to compete for the team's starting middle linebacker spot.

"We’re excited about those two," Executive Vice President of Football Operations John Elway said Friday at the NFL Scouting Combine. "They’re both guys very capable of handling that job.” http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Irving-Johnson-to-Compete-for-Starting-Spot/4d551f56-1904-446f-a0ea-2b61a8f9cb3f

Lestat
02-23-2013, 12:59 PM
i heard one site say Minter excells in coverage. But then some other sit said hes a run stopper but needs work in coverage. LOL so which is it.

he's a thumper more than a coverage guy. he can cover but struggles, especially against really athletic guys.

Cito Pelon
02-24-2013, 09:53 AM
Elway & Co sure are harping on Irving and Johnson as bona fides. I don't think it really means a lot right now, just a reflection of their own indecision right now about what directions they want to go in FA and the draft.

Nwp-Apap
02-24-2013, 11:25 AM
If Manti is available when we pick, I guarantee we draft him. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we unnecessarily trade up for him. Elway wants him, I can feel it.

Bmore Manning
02-24-2013, 11:35 AM
If Manti is available when we pick, I guarantee we draft him. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we unnecessarily trade up for him. Elway wants him, I can feel it.

Houston and Green Bay interviewed him.. Apparently Houston was enamored with Te'o..

SlyEli
02-24-2013, 11:41 AM
Houston and Green Bay interviewed him.. Apparently Houston was enamored with Te'o..

Don't they already have Cushing?

Bmore Manning
02-24-2013, 11:50 AM
Don't they already have Cushing?

Yeah coming off an injury, and they don't have anything next to him.. Keep in mind they run a 3-4.. The Wade Phillips one gap 3-4, but you still use 2 ILBs.

BroncoBuff
02-24-2013, 10:56 PM
There's a reason we were chewed up over the middle ALL SEASON long, and Trevathan and his whopping 3 PDs is not the answer.

First of all, the 'passes defensed' stat is NO WAY to evaluate competence in pass coverage. Wesley Woodyard graded out the best 4-3 pass coverage LB in the league (Pro Football Focus) (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5036/wesley-woodyard). He had 6 passes defensed. But he also had hella more snaps than Trevathan, and Tevathan had 3 ..... Rev! We're starting the wrong LB!!

Second, Trevathan's 3 passes defensed tied him for 52nd in the league among all LBs (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?year=2012&pos=LB&season=reg), which (if 'passes defensed' mattered) would be astonishing for a rookie who played as little as he did.

Third, yes, we had problems with opposing TEs this season, no doubt. But a) seems like more of a safety issue to me, and b) we so throttled opposing offenses - #2 in league yardage allowed, #4 points - that I just can't get too worked up about it.


You're seriously one of the more football incompetent people on the entire message board and I literally can't fathom how someone could possibly be this ignorant. You're like a small child in a grown, ugly man's body.

Don't know what to say. Rev, I'm just yakkin' here, never meant to hurt or insult you ... my long post about last year's opening day Von Miller stuff was 90% fun (though I did predict 12 sacks, which was correct rounded to the nearest whole integer).

And speaking of Miller, here's a thought: If you're calling somebody football-ignorant, and you want the insult to stick, you should really do better than a senseless accusation he doesn't know Von Miller rushes the quarterback ... I don't know, maybe say he relies on boutique stats like GWRBI or PD to make judgments.

Tombstone RJ
02-25-2013, 09:57 AM
boutique stats--Doh!

yerner
02-25-2013, 10:04 AM
I hadn't thought about it till today, but my bet is they go offensive line. Boring but probably the smart pick. Didn't they have their sights on the kid that went to Pittsburgh last year? I think they fill that spot this time around.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-25-2013, 10:11 AM
The longer Ellerbe stays unsigned the better it will be to court him. Flacco eats up the franchise tag and ravens beg Ellerbe to stay.

Tombstone RJ
02-25-2013, 12:01 PM
Minter ran a 4.81 forty; Ogletree ran a 4.62; Teo ran a 4.81; Brown ran a ??; the fastest LBer so far is Jon Bostic at 4.50.

BroncoBuff
02-25-2013, 12:18 PM
I hadn't thought about it till today, but my bet is they go offensive line. Boring but probably the smart pick.

I hope not, me want a safety. A real team leader (enough to obviate all this overwrought longing for a MLB), and who'll lay some wood. Broncos had a 25-year run of truly great safetys, Billy Thompson - Dennis Smith - Steve Atwater. John Lynch and Brian Dawkins were good stopgaps, but I want a leader, a face of the D.

ozomulsion
02-26-2013, 04:29 AM
Well, I doubt Brown will be there at our second round pick, so that means our first which would be a considerable reach.

We should copy ourselves and move back like last year. Brown and Woodyard would be a dream of a nickle package. Brown ran 4.52 on his first one, then-4.62.

I've watched Brown play 90% of his games since he was Jr.. All I can say about the guy is that he is that dude you want. He's just a football player who knows where to be for the int and his hips sway quickly to catch a RB in the middle of a juke.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=82068&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB

I don't care if that number is off and an actual 4.68. He's got it.

ozomulsion
02-26-2013, 04:51 AM
If we're gonna have such a simplistic running game, we need need to go get THAT GUY. Lightning in a bottle with power. Yeah, not Hillman :giggle:

spiralism
02-27-2013, 07:49 AM
If Manti is available when we pick, I guarantee we draft him. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we unnecessarily trade up for him. Elway wants him, I can feel it.

I get this feeling as well but his slow 40 would make me stop to reconsider. Do not want another Joe Mays.

Bmore Manning
02-27-2013, 08:33 AM
Let me point a few things out..

He plays Faster than he ran. He's not an explosive athlete, he's actually quick, but as the distance increases his speed doesn't, he lacks top end speed. But he can PLAY sideline to sideline! And he has incredible instincts, soft hands, and an incredible tenacity to make a play. What MLB is going to have to run 40 yards? He did well in the drills and all his tape minus one game (though it was a big game) is impressive.

I think Med mentioned that Notre Dame ran a different defensive scheme this year from what I gathered on tape. He was in a more traditional 4-3 Mike role last year and before. This year was more elements of being a 3-4, and while we run a hybrid scheme and players always have to adjust, again one bad game all season and in a new scheme is pretty good.. Not to mention, you scheme for a month on how to pound the ball and get Warmack, Jones and company to the second level. They dominated Nix who will be an NFL starter at DT/NT one day. The whole Notre Dame defense looked weak.

Some of you need to dive deeper sometimes.
If he's there @#28 I HOPE he's a Bronco..

Requiem
02-27-2013, 08:39 AM
Joe Mays and Manti Teo are nothing alike. Mays is not nearly as quick on tape and can't defend the pass to save his life. This coming from a Bison alum who watched his best college football in person for two straight yeasr.

Tombstone RJ
02-27-2013, 09:00 AM
What's the story on Jon Bostic from FL? He's run the 40 as fast as 4.48 and he averaged like a 4.61 at the combine. He's got good size too. What is he, just dumb or something, does he not interview well? He's the prototypical 4-3 MLB in height, weight and speed.

socalorado
02-27-2013, 09:16 AM
After yesterdays combine, i think DEN will go either with Trufant or Rhodes depending on how the 1st round plays out, and if they are gone, then theres a good chance Te'o is there, and they will take him. Minter is a beast too.

Tombstone RJ
02-27-2013, 09:22 AM
I think this draft is relatively deep at LBer so I can see Denver taking another position in the first and then trying to get a ILB/MLB in the second. I'd prefer the Broncos take a guy like Bostic in the 2nd round as apposed to Te'o in the first, especially when they can get a good CB in the first.

cmhargrove
02-27-2013, 10:48 AM
What's the story on Jon Bostic from FL? He's run the 40 as fast as 4.48 and he averaged like a 4.61 at the combine. He's got good size too. What is he, just dumb or something, does he not interview well? He's the prototypical 4-3 MLB in height, weight and speed.

Bostic might turn out to be a very good pro. He has pluses and minuses like all of this year's ILB crop.

From watching a few Florida games in 2012 (which had a really good defense this year), it's sometimes hard to tell chicken and egg. Do other players help him look better? Does he help others look better? One thing i'll say is that if you watched any Florida games, you definitely noticed him being a big part of their game. He makes plays and hits hard. As a matter of fact, i'll say that he sometimes plays "too mean" and really tries to drill people (which sometiomes leads to bad form or missed tackles). I thought I remember him making some stupid mistakes like punching people and drawing personal fouls at one time or another. Has a bad-ass attitude.

Bmore Manning
02-27-2013, 11:25 AM
Bostic is not a prospect I like. He missed many tackles that Evans and Elam had to clean up. He's a liability in coverage despite his "fast" 40 time. Conceptually he doesn't grasp the game like you want in a starting MLB. Just not a fan..

Cito Pelon
02-28-2013, 03:22 PM
I hadn't thought about it till today, but my bet is they go offensive line. Boring but probably the smart pick. Didn't they have their sights on the kid that went to Pittsburgh last year? I think they fill that spot this time around.

DeCastro? That was unattributed speculation. Elway not's gonna say who he liked at any time except the guy he picks. He played in the League for 17 years, been there, done that. He's not gonna give anything to the media, just bland BS kind of stuff, just enough to keep them interested, a tidbit here and there. He's smart, knows how to play the media game.

Tombstone RJ
02-28-2013, 08:24 PM
Here's my dream draft as of right now: Broncos take Trufant at #28, and DT with the #58, then a WR with 3rd round pick and Bostic or Alonso with the 4th round pick.

I'd be all giddy. It would be like Christmas in April. Oh, and pick up a RB in the 5th.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-28-2013, 08:42 PM
I don't think any of those CBs will be at 28. Closer the draft get the higher Rhodes and trufant go. I wouldn't be surprised if they are picked in the teens low 20s

Tombstone RJ
02-28-2013, 09:18 PM
I don't think any of those CBs will be at 28. Closer the draft get the higher Rhodes and trufant go. I wouldn't be surprised if they are picked in the teens low 20s

yep, hence my dream. I've seen one mock that has Trufant going to the Broncos. I've seen another mock that has Lacey going to the Broncos. Trufant really helped himself with his 40 time. The Broncos could always go with the best DT or interior olineman available, or maybe with the best WR or safety available. There just seems to be some decent options for the Broncos in areas of need, that is, ILB, DT, WR, maybe CB, and Oline.

I'm excited about this draft. It definitely sucks for teams who need a QB but it's deep in some other positions like DT. I'd have no problem if the Broncos took defense with their first 4 picks.

TonyR
03-03-2013, 12:32 PM
D.J. Williams is done as a Bronco. Nate Irving is the current plan to man the Mike.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-to-trade-lol-or-cut-dj-williams-lard

Bacchus
03-03-2013, 01:02 PM
Articles that continuously use "L.O.L." in it are very hard to read or take seriously.

Agamemnon
03-03-2013, 01:26 PM
In my opinion, coming out of college, Irving was as good a prospect as any MLB in this draft. If the Broncos believe the guy can get the job done for us I have no reason to doubt them.

TonyR
03-03-2013, 01:37 PM
Articles that continuously use "L.O.L." in it are very hard to read or take seriously.

Not trying to be a wiseguy but it was all clear to me. DJ is gone (will probably be cut). They're floating the idea that Irving is the guy to beat for the job. Pretty straightforward stuff.

SlyEli
03-03-2013, 02:09 PM
te'o is a mess.

Br0nc0Buster
03-03-2013, 03:34 PM
I really liked Irving come out of NC State
The only concern was whether he could hold up long term given he was the bionic man

I would not be totally surprised if Irving actually is being looked at as the de facto starter
With guys like Tony Carter and Chris Harris coming out of nowhere I think this staff feels like they can develop guys into their roles

But given that their last solution for MLB was Joke Mays, they cant just be given the benefit of the doubt

Tombstone RJ
03-03-2013, 10:43 PM
D.J. Williams is done as a Bronco. Nate Irving is the current plan to man the Mike.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-to-trade-lol-or-cut-dj-williams-lard

ok, this guy is a joke... lol. I'm done reading his crap. LOL.

Rabb
03-04-2013, 07:36 AM
ok, this guy is a joke... lol. I'm done reading his crap. LOL.

Yep, the unfortunate thing to me is these guys have a lot of solid knowledge but IMO they get in their own way by trying to be cute and just flat out obsessing over certain things.

I am not a Tebow fanboy by a long shot, but man they still carry on about that. The whole "LOLJets" thing is just idiotic.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-04-2013, 09:25 AM
Who's gonna even trade for DJ?

TonyR
03-04-2013, 09:29 AM
ok, this guy is a joke... lol. I'm done reading his crap. LOL.

I'm curious what you disagree with? Also curious why you can't just read around/ignore the parts that so offend you?

broncswin
03-04-2013, 09:37 AM
Who's gonna even trade for DJ?

No one...his dumb ass is getting cut

Tombstone RJ
03-04-2013, 09:41 AM
No one is going to trade for DJ, not with that salary, and his off the field issues. He's a talented WLB but expensive. I dunna, but maybe a team like the NYG think about bringing him in and give up a 7th round pick for him? The Broncos eat part of the contract and the giants only have to shell out $4m or so, but they get a guy who can step in and contribute immediately?

Requiem
03-04-2013, 10:24 AM
Send him back to Tanahan. Daft doodle.

BroncoBuff
03-04-2013, 02:38 PM
Agree D.J. has no trade value, but I'm thinking he will draw interest from multiple teams.

My guess is he goes home, the Raiders. They suit him in all aspects of where he's been and where he is now.

CEH
03-05-2013, 08:56 AM
Denver played a 4-2-5 defense 65% of the snaps last year. I don't see that changing this year so I don't expect a MLBer to be selected because those 3 down linebackers like SF has are few and far between

Oline has to be the highest priority to keep Manning here as long as possible as well as S to cover those TEs and CB

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 09:36 AM
Denver played a 4-2-5 defense 65% of the snaps last year. I don't see that changing this year so I don't expect a MLBer to be selected because those 3 down linebackers like SF has are few and far between

Oline has to be the highest priority to keep Manning here as long as possible as well as S to cover those TEs and CB

When you understand that Miller counts as part of the 4 and not the 2, you'll know why a 3 down MLB is paramount for Denver.

PS. Every defense in the league spends 60%+ in the nickel.

Requiem
03-05-2013, 09:47 AM
When you understand that Miller counts as part of the 4 and not the 2, you'll know why a 3 down MLB is paramount for Denver.

PS. Every defense in the league spends 60%+ in the nickel.

It is amazing how this easy to understand football fact evades 90% of the forum. Thank you Rev.

CEH
03-05-2013, 11:00 AM
When you understand that Miller counts as part of the 4 and not the 2, you'll know why a 3 down MLB is paramount for Denver.

PS. Every defense in the league spends 60%+ in the nickel.

And 80% of the teams do not have a 3 down MLber either

Paramount. Please. Overreact much?

Deshown Golston would have just as much impact on this team as a rookie MLBer and provide the same benefit which is covering teh samn TEs in this league

pricejj
03-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Sio Moore might be the best option at MIKE and as a 3-down LB. I know UCONN used him all over the place, but I like what he did on the inside. He definitely has the ability to be a half-field LB. He's got ideal size, he's extremely versatile, smart, strong, has great athleticism, and fights through blockers well.

Only problem is, I doubt he'll still be on the board at #58.

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 11:21 AM
And 80% of the teams do not have a 3 down MLber either

Paramount. Please. Overreact much?

Deshown Golston would have just as much impact on this team as a rookie MLBer and provide the same benefit which is covering teh samn TEs in this league

Saying there's only 5 3 down MLBers in the league is nothing shy of laughable. San Francisco has two on their team alone. In fact, I'd bet over half the teams in the league have 3 down MLBers. So not only is your 80% figure a laughable indicator of your ignorance, but 80% of teams aren't blitzing their Sam regularly either...

Bacchus
03-05-2013, 11:56 AM
Saying there's only 5 3 down MLBers in the league is nothing shy of laughable. San Francisco has two on their team alone. In fact, I'd bet over half the teams in the league have 3 down MLBers. So not only is your 80% figure a laughable indicator of your ignorance, but 80% of teams aren't blitzing their Sam regularly either...

Elway has already said that they are most likely going to go with Irving and Johnson. Doesn't sound like a high priority to me.

Requiem
03-05-2013, 12:16 PM
Elway has already said that they are most likely going to go with Irving and Johnson. Doesn't sound like a high priority to me.

He is bluffing. If he isn't, he is a moron.

CEH
03-05-2013, 12:17 PM
Saying there's only 5 3 down MLBers in the league is nothing shy of laughable. San Francisco has two on their team alone. In fact, I'd bet over half the teams in the league have 3 down MLBers. So not only is your 80% figure a laughable indicator of your ignorance, but 80% of teams aren't blitzing their Sam regularly either...


Here come the insults. Good to know that you can do basic 4th grade math.

And SF is one team not two teams and I further pointed out already that SF is the exception to the rule. Sure everone would love to have a Willis or Bowman.

I'm talking about 80% as in a "team" that has a player that would meet my definition of PARAMOUNT. I can only conclude that if you think 50% of the league has this PARMOUNT player Denver needs so badly it migth be easy to aquire said PARAMOUNT player without using a 1st round pick. I mean if 50 % of the league already has one or did all 16 teams use a first round pick and wasn't this the topic of the thread

* See what I'm doing here. Instead of addressing the spirit of a post I'm taking some snippit of a post and harping on it over and over again.

TonyR
03-05-2013, 12:17 PM
Elway has already said that they are most likely going to go with Irving and Johnson. Doesn't sound like a high priority to me.

True, but you can't trust what they're saying. Could be a smoke screen. They're never going to completely give away their true intentions.

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 12:48 PM
Here come the insults. Good to know that you can do basic 4th grade math.

And SF is one team not two teams and I further pointed out already that SF is the exception to the rule. Sure everone would love to have a Willis or Bowman.

I'm talking about 80% as in a "team" that has a player that would meet my definition of PARAMOUNT. I can only conclude that if you think 50% of the league has this PARMOUNT player Denver needs so badly it migth be easy to aquire said PARAMOUNT player without using a 1st round pick. I mean if 50 % of the league already has one or did all 16 teams use a first round pick and wasn't this the topic of the thread

* See what I'm doing here. Instead of addressing the spirit of a post I'm taking some snippit of a post and harping on it over and over again.

Willis/Bowman
Darryl Washington
Kuechly
Bobby Wagner
Posluzny
Cushing
Steven Tulloch
Johnathan Vilma
Sean Lee
Akeem Dent
Dansby
Jerod Mayo
Derrick Johnson
Urlacher
Lewis*
Fletcher*

So there's half the NFL, JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

Want to keep going or are you sufficiently embarrassed yet?

80% Ha!

Bacchus
03-05-2013, 12:54 PM
Willis/Bowman
Darryl Washington
Kuechly
Bobby Wagner
Posluzny
Cushing
Steven Tulloch
Johnathan Vilma
Sean Lee
Akeem Dent
Dansby
Jerod Mayo
Derrick Johnson
Urlacher
Lewis*
Fletcher*

So there's half the NFL, JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

Want to keep going or are you sufficiently embarrassed yet?

80% Ha!

Just by looking at that list Vilma did not even play MLB last year, and Urlacher kinda sucked. My knowledge of NFL MLBs is kinda small though.

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 01:16 PM
Just by looking at that list Vilma did not even play MLB last year, and Urlacher kinda sucked. My knowledge of NFL MLBs is kinda small though.

Can sub Lofton all the same though Vilma will probably be back at Mike this season.

Urlacher's "kinda sucked" consisted of 7 PDs and a pick. Al Wilson had ONE season in his entire career where he was able to match that.

...Just fyi.

DBroncos4life
03-05-2013, 01:53 PM
Elway has already said that they are most likely going to go with Irving and Johnson. Doesn't sound like a high priority to me.

So we can be expecting Elway to make the draft list public soon right?

Bacchus
03-05-2013, 02:03 PM
So we can be expecting Elway to make the draft list public soon right?

It sounded like a moment of candor to me. So Would you take Minter in the first? Te'o?

I would not be upset by a MLB in the first but I think the best way to improve the MLB play would be getting a great DT.

Your MLB is not going to make your DT better but a great DT makes your MLB much better by keeping the OL off of him.

DBroncos4life
03-05-2013, 02:06 PM
It sounded like a moment of candor to me. So Would you take Minter in the first? Te'o?

I would not be upset by a MLB in the first but I think the best way to improve the MLB play would be getting a great DT.

Your MLB is not going to make your DT better but a great DT makes your MLB much better by keeping the OL off of him.

I'll tell you what, I want the best player for the scheme we run.

Bacchus
03-05-2013, 02:07 PM
I'll tell you what, I want the best player for the scheme we run.

yeah me too, I would not mind that wr from West Virgina or Trufant if he falls that far.

CEH
03-05-2013, 02:41 PM
Willis/Bowman
Darryl Washington
Kuechly
Bobby Wagner
Posluzny
Cushing
Steven Tulloch
Johnathan Vilma
Sean Lee
Akeem Dent
Dansby
Jerod Mayo
Derrick Johnson
Urlacher
Lewis*
Fletcher*

So there's half the NFL, JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

Want to keep going or are you sufficiently embarrassed yet?

80% Ha!

Not really embarrassed by anything. Good job using GOOGLE. My son in 3rd grade uses GOOGLE pretty well too.

Looks to me like your list is made up of top 15 picks and 2nd round and beyond talent

Back to the 80%. I'd say that your list proves there is about 6-7 players all top 15 picks that I would consider PARAMOUNT players. Realistic type player for Denver? Hardly which brings me to the other half of the list.

Remind me again who Denver could not draft in round two with a little wiggling like dropping out of the 1st and pickup a pick or two

While you want to narrow in on a specifc fact you inadvently proved my point of the thread . Denver does not need to draft a MLBer at #28 to fill that position

Job well done.

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 02:58 PM
Not really embarrassed by anything. Good job using GOOGLE. My son in 3rd grade uses GOOGLE pretty well too.

Looks to me like your list is made up of top 15 picks and 2nd round and beyond talent

Back to the 80%. I'd say that your list proves there is about 6-7 players all top 15 picks that I would consider PARAMOUNT players. Realistic type player for Denver? Hardly which brings me to the other half of the list.

Remind me again who Denver could not draft in round two with a little wiggling like dropping out of the 1st and pickup a pick or two

While you want to narrow in on a specifc fact you inadvently proved my point of the thread . Denver does not need to draft a MLBer at #28 to fill that position

Job well done. I knew I could manipulate you once you turned into Mr Google

So you addressed none of the post and have backpedaled into an entirely different stance.

Bravo. Please don't reproduce again.

DBroncos4life
03-05-2013, 03:04 PM
So you addressed none of the post and have backpedaled into an entirely different stance.

Bravo. Please don't reproduce again.

I'm sure teams would get rid of 3 down MLBs all together if they didn't like steakhouses so much.

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 03:08 PM
I'm sure teams would get rid of 3 down MLBs all together if they didn't like steakhouses so much.

Haha... I forgot about that.

Because... ya know... his neighbor told him so. And you can also believe every pre-draft thing Elway publicly says.

CEH
03-05-2013, 03:28 PM
So you addressed none of the post and have backpedaled into an entirely different stance.

Bravo. Please don't reproduce again.

Yes you cited more than 6 MLBers in the NFL which is greater than 20 % of the league. Is that what you want to hear. Feel better? I don't want you to stress out over this. You have more important tasks at hand like trying to figure out how Denver can secure a player of Pozunzy caliber to play the "paramount" position of MLBer this year

I'll let you get back to this mind bender.

ZONA
03-05-2013, 03:44 PM
Elway has already said that they are most likely going to go with Irving and Johnson. Doesn't sound like a high priority to me.

You wanna post where Elway said that? The interview I heard several weeks back he did not say he was most likely going to go with either. He was very vague and just said that he likes some of the things both of those guys do but in no way did he indicate just what their plans are for that position.

TheReverend
03-05-2013, 03:48 PM
Yes you cited more than 6 MLBers in the NFL which is greater than 20 % of the league. Is that what you want to hear. Feel better? I don't want you to stress out over this. You have more important tasks at hand like trying to figure out how Denver can secure a player of Pozunzy caliber to play the "paramount" position of MLBer this year

I'll let you get back to this mind bender.

I think you've completely missed the point of a football message board.

...missing the point of things seems to be par for the course for you, though.

Cito Pelon
03-05-2013, 07:36 PM
I think the bottom line is every team in the League would love to have a true 3-down MLB. The trouble is they're hard to find, and if one comes around it takes a #1 draft pick to acquire. And if they're a can't miss kind of guy, it requires a pretty high #1.

For this draft from what I'm seeing there isn't a "can't miss" kind of 3-down MLB available, or maybe what I'm seeing from the draftniks is a reflection of the this meme that MLB isn't as important now with the emphasis on nickle defense.

Lestat
03-05-2013, 09:28 PM
here's the thing though. nickel or not, if you can land a 3 down MLB in this league who can make plays. that trumps the value of the nickel package. means less snaps you have to sub him out. having a really good MLB cures a lot of issues on defense, they get guys lined up correctly, diagnose plays and help counter the opposing team.

we need a stud at MLB and a new SS. that will cure a lot of issues on the D in a hurry.

Bacchus
03-06-2013, 07:20 AM
You wanna post where Elway said that? The interview I heard several weeks back he did not say he was most likely going to go with either. He was very vague and just said that he likes some of the things both of those guys do but in no way did he indicate just what their plans are for that position.

You might be right about that come to think of it. I think Elway talked about Irving and Johnson getting their shots and the columnist, klis or Legwold was assumming Denver might bypass a MLB in the draft. Anyway, I will be very very very surprised if Denver takes a MLB int he first round