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View Full Version : The man who killed Osama Bin Laden...Is Screwed


spdirty
02-11-2013, 09:27 PM
A long read but a damn good read. It's pretty disgusting how bad we treat our heroes. They should never HAVE to work again once they're done being badass mother****ing heroes for all of us. I don't think this should be a partisan political issue where the red team and the blue team argue over whose fault it is...but rather the shame of a nation, and what should be done about this. Hopefully this story gets enough run so that a movement starts and the lawmakers in Washington might make things right with our greatest heroes.

http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313

ant1999e
02-11-2013, 10:40 PM
I don't get it. Did he do 20 years? If not, what did he expect? It's bad ass that he killed Osama but that's the military.

Willynowei
02-12-2013, 12:03 AM
These guys are some of the most motivated and disciplined individuals in the world, to the point of being almost machine like. They are forced into leadership positions that give them more powerful experience than mid-level executives in the worlds biggest companies, with more on the line, in quite literally the most stressful environment that anyone could be placed in.

If they spent 15+ years in the SEALs and actually had a good enough performance record to be the one chosen to take out Osama, then they represent a fraction of a percent of the individuals in this world in terms of performance and aptitude under stress.

It really sucks they can't put that on a resume. There's plenty of stories involving SEALs and other special forces guys going to Harvard Business School and coming out as successful executives. Harvard would love to have them, but you have to first take the tests, the interviews, and arrange for the loans/money to pay for such education. And if you have a family, school may not be an option at all.

I read the whole article, its pretty gut wrenching, takes all the glory out of being a hero when you realize they get the short end of the stick.

elsid13
02-12-2013, 01:31 AM
I don't get it. Did he do 20 years? If not, what did he expect? It's bad ass that he killed Osama but that's the military.

He didn't and refused to do a stint in the reserves to make that up. He did it to himself.

jhat01
02-12-2013, 05:56 AM
He didn't and refused to do a stint in the reserves to make that up. He did it to himself.

It may be time to have a conversation regarding these guys and retirement. These dudes volunteer yes, so they know what's up, but they burn out much faster than the guy that sings in the choir for 20 years. Maybe a 15 year retirement might be more appropriate, I don't know.

Dukes
02-12-2013, 06:00 AM
It may be time to have a conversation regarding these guys and retirement. These dudes volunteer yes, so they know what's up, but they burn out much faster than the guy that sings in the choir for 20 years. Maybe a 15 year retirement might be more appropriate, I don't know.

Interesting thought. SF guys go through a hell of a lot more stress than your average soldier, sailor or Marine.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-12-2013, 06:08 AM
http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-esquire-storys-claims-the-seal-who-shot-osama-has-access-to-health-care

In the wake of the Esquire article's publication, which prompted a wave of media coverage (including here on Gawker), Stars and Stripes reporter Megan McCloskey did some digging and discovered that one of the main cruxes of the piece—that the the SEAL shooter receives no health coverage from the government—is inaccurate. Like other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, asserts McCloskey, the SEAL is eligible for five years of free medical care upon retirement, a fact Esquire writer Phil Bronstein left out of his piece.

The writer, Phil Bronstein, who heads up the Center for Investigative Reporting, stands by the story. He said the assertion that the government gave the SEAL "nothing" in terms of health care is both fair and accurate, because the SEAL didn't know the VA benefits existed.

Rabb
02-12-2013, 06:20 AM
Very one sided, I feel for the guy but you make choices in life. My brother works for a private security company and makes 4 times what I do as an engineer and he's doing the same thing he did as a scout sniper/force recon Marine. There is always an option.

And yes, I am a veteran myself.

Pony Boy
02-12-2013, 06:28 AM
Let's not forget the heroes that did the waterboarding to find out where Osama was hiding, like it or not that really works.

ant1999e
02-12-2013, 07:00 AM
Let's cut more money from defense. Shyt there's talk of going away from the pension and just doing a 401k for the military.

Rohirrim
02-12-2013, 08:17 AM
America has been screwing over its vets since the Congress refused to pay off Revolutionary War veterans. It's why Washington, DC is a federal district, because Congress wasn't sure a state militia would protect them against protesting soldiers. Hell, read about the Bonus March of WW1 veterans in 1932. America has always **** on its vets while at the same time politicians give speeches about how wonderful the vets are and how it's all apple pie and flags flying. It's an American tradition; After the bullets are done flying, the vets get kicked to the curb. After the Vietnam War, you would have thought it was the vets who were responsible for it, instead of the lying politicians.

peacepipe
02-12-2013, 08:32 AM
Let's not forget the heroes that did the waterboarding to find out where Osama was hiding, like it or not that really works.

WRONG!

razorwire77
02-12-2013, 08:33 AM
Single payer healthcare system for all.

Chris
02-12-2013, 08:36 AM
Very one sided, I feel for the guy but you make choices in life. My brother works for a private security company and makes 4 times what I do as an engineer and he's doing the same thing he did as a scout sniper/force recon Marine. There is always an option.

And yes, I am a veteran myself.

What kind of security do they do? Like Blackwater or guarding armoured trucks in the US?

Rabb
02-12-2013, 08:37 AM
What kind of security do they do? Like Blackwater or guarding armoured trucks in the US?

Blackwater is actually the exact company, I forget what they are named now but they changed names. He is at an embassy in Iraq.

Bacchus
02-12-2013, 08:39 AM
A long read but a damn good read. It's pretty disgusting how bad we treat our heroes. They should never HAVE to work again once they're done being badass mother****ing heroes for all of us. I don't think this should be a partisan political issue where the red team and the blue team argue over whose fault it is...but rather the shame of a nation, and what should be done about this. Hopefully this story gets enough run so that a movement starts and the lawmakers in Washington might make things right with our greatest heroes.

http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313

It shouldn't be a partisan political issue but it is. The Republicans always want to send them to war and cut their benefits when they get home.

Agamemnon
02-12-2013, 08:40 AM
All you people who actually believe the whole Bin Laden story kill me. "Hey we just killed the most infamous terrorist of all time. Let's load him onto a boat and dump him into the ocean according to Muslim tradition." Hilarious!

Seriously guys, after the long and extensive history our government has of lying to us why are you so quick to believe them? Bin Laden was probably in a CIA prison for years and either died of natural causes or was killed when he was no longer useful. Hell maybe he got vaporized by a bomb years ago. All the speculation aside, their haste to dispose of the body before anyone could actually look at it should arouse the suspicions of every rational individual on the planet.

Smiling Assassin27
02-12-2013, 08:41 AM
http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-esquire-storys-claims-the-seal-who-shot-osama-has-access-to-health-care

In the wake of the Esquire article's publication, which prompted a wave of media coverage (including here on Gawker), Stars and Stripes reporter Megan McCloskey did some digging and discovered that one of the main cruxes of the piece—that the the SEAL shooter receives no health coverage from the government—is inaccurate. Like other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, asserts McCloskey, the SEAL is eligible for five years of free medical care upon retirement, a fact Esquire writer Phil Bronstein left out of his piece.

The writer, Phil Bronstein, who heads up the Center for Investigative Reporting, stands by the story. He said the assertion that the government gave the SEAL "nothing" in terms of health care is both fair and accurate, because the SEAL didn't know the VA benefits existed.

How this article got written with such poor research is amazing. There's this thing called outprocessing where, if you pay attention, you learn about the benefits you can access. Either this guy missed it or he wasn't told. Either way, a far cry from the point the article/author was trying to make. Shoddy.

Requiem
02-12-2013, 08:41 AM
Blackwater changed it's name twice. It was Xe Services and now it's Academi.

Why? Because they partake in criminal activity and tried to save face.

But do they get in trouble? No. Just fines. How typical.

(And I'm not trying to be offensive to your bro Rabb.)

Bacchus
02-12-2013, 08:41 AM
Let's not forget the heroes that did the waterboarding to find out where Osama was hiding, like it or not that really works.

biggest lie ever.

spdirty
02-12-2013, 08:42 AM
I don't get it. Did he do 20 years? If not, what did he expect? It's bad ass that he killed Osama but that's the military.

He didn't and refused to do a stint in the reserves to make that up. He did it to himself.

The guy was burnt out. What, would you prefer having a burnt out SEAL continue to go on the most dangerous missions so he could get his retirement benefits?

I don't know, I am so in awe of SF that when hearing about 1 or more of them getting screwed by the government it just makes my blood boil. And this travesty needs to be dealt with. And if the government won't do anything about it, a few private charities need to get going to help these heroes out.

Like me, I'm a vet, did 4 years and out, didn't see any combat, I'd have gone if sent but I'm glad I didn't see any. If someone were to ever come up to me and say I'm a hero, I'd tell em to **** off. Cuz I'm not anywhere close to this guy. I might make it 3 or 4 days of SF training before quitting or washing out. This guy and his team members are better people than me. And better people than 99% of the world. This guy and his team members have done more for this country than 99% of the rest of us combined. And to think that he got the same kind of benefits that I got when I got out? Its total bull****. What in the hell can he put on a resume?

Bacchus
02-12-2013, 08:43 AM
All you people who actually believe the whole Bin Laden story kill me. "Hey we just killed the most infamous terrorist of all time. Let's load him onto a boat and dump him into the ocean according to Muslim tradition." Hilarious!

Seriously guys, after the long and extensive history our government has of lying to us why are you so quick to believe them? Bin Laden was probably in a CIA prison for years and either died of natural causes or was killed when he was no longer useful. Hell maybe he got vaporized by a bomb years ago. All the speculation aside, their haste to dispose of the body before anyone could actually look at it should arouse the suspicions of every rational individual on the planet.

that is why they crashed a helicopter at a Pakistani compound and killed one of Bin Laden's wives. You are an idiot.

Rohirrim
02-12-2013, 08:46 AM
Single payer healthcare system for all.

That would require that a whole bunch of people pull their heads out of their asses and start looking at reality. Ain't gonna happen. Not to mention, you have giant industries like insurance, Big Pharma and healthcare buying up enough politicians and media message to make sure it never happens.

BroncoBuff
02-12-2013, 08:51 AM
I recall seeing reports that many of the very SEALS who carried out the bin-Laden raid were killed in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan about six weeks later.

Agamemnon
02-12-2013, 08:52 AM
that is why they crashed a helicopter at a Pakistani compound and killed one of Bin Laden's wives. You are an idiot.

Cool story. Now tell me why no one ever got to examine Bin Laden's body. Tell me why they dumped it in the ocean claiming it was for the sake of Muslim tradition when it was in fact completely contrary to Muslim tradition. Answer those questions for this idiot.

enjolras
02-12-2013, 08:55 AM
All you people who actually believe the whole Bin Laden story kill me. "Hey we just killed the most infamous terrorist of all time. Let's load him onto a boat and dump him into the ocean according to Muslim tradition." Hilarious!

Alright MacGruder... I would think Al-Qeada would fall over themselves at the chance to prove the American government wrong. We're coming up on two years out and they've confirmed the kill and haven't released a public statement from Osama since.

Do you think the CIA got naked pictures of his mom or something to shut him up? This guy isn't well known for his cooperation with the U.S. government.

peacepipe
02-12-2013, 09:01 AM
All you people who actually believe the whole Bin Laden story kill me. "Hey we just killed the most infamous terrorist of all time. Let's load him onto a boat and dump him into the ocean according to Muslim tradition." Hilarious!

Seriously guys, after the long and extensive history our government has of lying to us why are you so quick to believe them? Bin Laden was probably in a CIA prison for years and either died of natural causes or was killed when he was no longer useful. Hell maybe he got vaporized by a bomb years ago. All the speculation aside, their haste to dispose of the body before anyone could actually look at it should arouse the suspicions of every rational individual on the planet.

JC,you're worse than mcghaffney.

Chris
02-12-2013, 09:02 AM
The guy was burnt out. What, would you prefer having a burnt out SEAL continue to go on the most dangerous missions so he could get his retirement benefits?

I don't know, I am so in awe of SF that when hearing about 1 or more of them getting screwed by the government it just makes my blood boil. And this travesty needs to be dealt with. And if the government won't do anything about it, a few private charities need to get going to help these heroes out.

Like me, I'm a vet, did 4 years and out, didn't see any combat, I'd have gone if sent but I'm glad I didn't see any. If someone were to ever come up to me and say I'm a hero, I'd tell em to **** off. Cuz I'm not anywhere close to this guy. I might make it 3 or 4 days of SF training before quitting or washing out. This guy and his team members are better people than me. And better people than 99% of the world. This guy and his team members have done more for this country than 99% of the rest of us combined. And to think that he got the same kind of benefits that I got when I got out? Its total bull****. What in the hell can he put on a resume?

How bout

KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

RhymesayersDU
02-12-2013, 09:04 AM
Alright MacGruder... I would think Al-Qeada would fall over themselves at the chance to prove the American government wrong. We're coming up on two years out and they've confirmed the kill and haven't released a public statement from Osama since.

Do you think the CIA got naked pictures of his mom or something to shut him up? This guy isn't well known for his cooperation with the U.S. government.

Bro the Illuminati runs both sides, you know that.

#tinfoilhats

Rabb
02-12-2013, 09:59 AM
Blackwater changed it's name twice. It was Xe Services and now it's Academi.

Why? Because they partake in criminal activity and tried to save face.

But do they get in trouble? No. Just fines. How typical.

(And I'm not trying to be offensive to your bro Rabb.)

Oh believe me, none taken brother.

He's an epic asshole anyhow.

Mediator12
02-12-2013, 10:08 AM
This sounds entirely too freaking Whiny to be a Seal team member, let alone a ST6 member. I have a couple buddies I shoot with who were Seals and their East Coast Sniper Academy is 45 minutes from my house. This is NOT the attititude of a "Quiet Professional" let alone one at the top of Tier One.

I am stunned at the way the government treats these guys when they muster out, but come on. These guys have skills most consulting companies would DIE to have in there personnel. These guys have tremendous work effort, do NOT complain, and are one of the most highly motivated get the Job done people EVER.

I work with several service groups who help place guys like this, and its absolutely stunning none of them have reached out to this guy. I for one will make sure someone in VB gets a head up on this, but I am sure someone there has already read the article.

mkporter
02-12-2013, 11:36 AM
Let's cut more money from defense. Shyt there's talk of going away from the pension and just doing a 401k for the military.

It's too bad there isn't more of a graduated system of retirement benefits for our military. You should get more benefits sticking around for 19 years than someone who does 4. I'm no expert, so maybe you do, but my impression is that isn't the case.

Cutting military spending should be (and mostly is) about eliminating spending on unneeded weapons development and procurement, and reducing the active force to levels appropriate for our current commitments (which have been reduced as we extricate ourselves from our major wars). We should take some of the savings and drastically increase our funding for veteran's support, in particular health-care (especially mental health), and programs to transition to civilian life. These aren't regular jobs, and shouldn't be treated as such. It is our responsibility to allow our military personnel to re-enter civilian life with as little trauma as possible.

mkporter
02-12-2013, 11:41 AM
This sounds entirely too freaking Whiny to be a Seal team member, let alone a ST6 member. I have a couple buddies I shoot with who were Seals and their East Coast Sniper Academy is 45 minutes from my house. This is NOT the attititude of a "Quiet Professional" let alone one at the top of Tier One.

I am stunned at the way the government treats these guys when they muster out, but come on. These guys have skills most consulting companies would DIE to have in there personnel. These guys have tremendous work effort, do NOT complain, and are one of the most highly motivated get the Job done people EVER.

I work with several service groups who help place guys like this, and its absolutely stunning none of them have reached out to this guy. I for one will make sure someone in VB gets a head up on this, but I am sure someone there has already read the article.

I was surprised by this as well. I've known a couple of ex-SEALs and you won't find people who are more dedicated and task driven. One of the guys I know would always tell me that getting through SEAL training isn't about being the strongest, toughest, most bad-ass warrior. It's 90% mental toughness, the ability to endure extremely stressful environments and stay focused on the task at hand.

Requiem
02-12-2013, 11:50 AM
The government has went under a mass initiative in the past sixth months after an executive order that happened in 2010 which boosted the Feds Hire Vets program. I think Obama also said he was in favor of a tax credit to employers who hire veterans. Not sure if that every went through or made a mark. Programs are there, I just think awareness of them is down.

That One Guy
02-12-2013, 01:13 PM
http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-esquire-storys-claims-the-seal-who-shot-osama-has-access-to-health-care

In the wake of the Esquire article's publication, which prompted a wave of media coverage (including here on Gawker), Stars and Stripes reporter Megan McCloskey did some digging and discovered that one of the main cruxes of the piece—that the the SEAL shooter receives no health coverage from the government—is inaccurate. Like other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, asserts McCloskey, the SEAL is eligible for five years of free medical care upon retirement, a fact Esquire writer Phil Bronstein left out of his piece.

The writer, Phil Bronstein, who heads up the Center for Investigative Reporting, stands by the story. He said the assertion that the government gave the SEAL "nothing" in terms of health care is both fair and accurate, because the SEAL didn't know the VA benefits existed.

The guy didn't retire. I do recall them offering something like the 18 month healthcare when I transitioned out but I didn't need it so I'm not sure the exacts of it. The claim here just doesn't make any sense.

That One Guy
02-12-2013, 01:15 PM
It's too bad there isn't more of a graduated system of retirement benefits for our military. You should get more benefits sticking around for 19 years than someone who does 4. I'm no expert, so maybe you do, but my impression is that isn't the case.



The military folks actually get two pensions: Their retirement and their "disability". It used to be that you essentially only got one but they've changed that. I was in 7 years, I get 20 or 30% retirement so a few hundred bucks a month. That's with almost nothing wrong with me (and getting f'd over by VA in a paperwork mess I was too lazy to fix). Guys who spend the better part of two decades will have a laundry list of problems they'll get compensated for.

That One Guy
02-12-2013, 01:19 PM
This sounds entirely too freaking Whiny to be a Seal team member, let alone a ST6 member. I have a couple buddies I shoot with who were Seals and their East Coast Sniper Academy is 45 minutes from my house. This is NOT the attititude of a "Quiet Professional" let alone one at the top of Tier One.

I am stunned at the way the government treats these guys when they muster out, but come on. These guys have skills most consulting companies would DIE to have in there personnel. These guys have tremendous work effort, do NOT complain, and are one of the most highly motivated get the Job done people EVER.

I work with several service groups who help place guys like this, and its absolutely stunning none of them have reached out to this guy. I for one will make sure someone in VB gets a head up on this, but I am sure someone there has already read the article.

I'm just not buying the story, personally. Sounds like a publicity cry, to me.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-12-2013, 01:21 PM
The guy didn't retire. I do recall them offering something like the 18 month healthcare when I transitioned out but I didn't need it so I'm not sure the exacts of it. The claim here just doesn't make any sense.

Huh? From the article:

"By early September of last year, the Shooter was out, officially. Retired."

The editor who ran the story says the story is making a point about the difficult and byzantine nature of the VA system, and how it is broken, and how it has affected this particular guy.

The original piece makes no such argument. It could have made that argument, but it did not, because it was badly edited. Esquire chose to publish a sweeping, overwrought account of how this hapless SEAL was "screwed" by the system—utterly abandoned—rather than presenting the case that the current system is inadequate and frustrating and difficult to navigate. That would have been a good case to make, but the story did not make it, and now the editors are trying to backfill the work they didn't do in the first place.

That One Guy
02-12-2013, 01:24 PM
Huh? From the article:

"By early September of last year, the Shooter was out, officially. Retired."

The editor who ran the story says the story is making a point about the difficult and byzantine nature of the VA system, and how it is broken, and how it has affected this particular guy.

The original piece makes no such argument. It could have made that argument, but it did not, because it was badly edited. Esquire chose to publish a sweeping, overwrought account of how this hapless SEAL was "screwed" by the system—utterly abandoned—rather than presenting the case that the current system is inadequate and frustrating and difficult to navigate. That would have been a good case to make, but the story did not make it, and now the editors are trying to backfill the work they didn't do in the first place.

He didn't retire - that's where this mess came from. If he'd retired, he'd have healthcare. He got out at 16 so that's the same, in that regard, as getting out after 3.

elsid13
02-12-2013, 02:23 PM
The guy was burnt out. What, would you prefer having a burnt out SEAL continue to go on the most dangerous missions so he could get his retirement benefits?

I don't know, I am so in awe of SF that when hearing about 1 or more of them getting screwed by the government it just makes my blood boil. And this travesty needs to be dealt with. And if the government won't do anything about it, a few private charities need to get going to help these heroes out.

Like me, I'm a vet, did 4 years and out, didn't see any combat, I'd have gone if sent but I'm glad I didn't see any. If someone were to ever come up to me and say I'm a hero, I'd tell em to **** off. Cuz I'm not anywhere close to this guy. I might make it 3 or 4 days of SF training before quitting or washing out. This guy and his team members are better people than me. And better people than 99% of the world. This guy and his team members have done more for this country than 99% of the rest of us combined. And to think that he got the same kind of benefits that I got when I got out? Its total bull****. What in the hell can he put on a resume?

No one is question his honor or fact that he did his duty, but he made very bad decision. I am sure that everyone in his command from the CO on down told him what would happen and gave him options. If he was burned out but needed the years they could have gotten him something down in Little Creek or NB Norfolk that could done his time and been home by 1600 every day. Heck he could walk right into Veteran Civilian Intern Billet for the DoN and had a job in Civil Service if he wanted it.

BTW I think there is more to this story then what been reported.

broncosteven
02-12-2013, 02:34 PM
http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-esquire-storys-claims-the-seal-who-shot-osama-has-access-to-health-care

In the wake of the Esquire article's publication, which prompted a wave of media coverage (including here on Gawker), Stars and Stripes reporter Megan McCloskey did some digging and discovered that one of the main cruxes of the piece—that the the SEAL shooter receives no health coverage from the government—is inaccurate. Like other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, asserts McCloskey, the SEAL is eligible for five years of free medical care upon retirement, a fact Esquire writer Phil Bronstein left out of his piece.

The writer, Phil Bronstein, who heads up the Center for Investigative Reporting, stands by the story. He said the assertion that the government gave the SEAL "nothing" in terms of health care is both fair and accurate, because the SEAL didn't know the VA benefits existed.

My dad goes to the VA and gets free or very reduced treatment and he has been out of the service for 45 years. Did they change coverage for VA services down to 5 years? That would suck.

I am surprised they don't have a better outplacement support in place for these guys. What is the line about teaching a man to fish? In the end it is his life and he has to make the transition himself. Sure people are making money off the event but he needs to focus on his life and what he can control.

I am all for giving these hero's unlimited healthcare (through the VA) and the support (mental and outplacement) he needs to adapt to civilian life but I am not for giving them anything. They need to forge their own paths through the rest of their lives. If anything the armed forces should have these guys thinking about life after the service the whole time they are in it.

I have been through a sudden life change and it sucks but I got through it by having goals, plans and doing what I could to make my life better.

Ratboy
02-12-2013, 03:04 PM
As for the Seal not knowing about benefits, he must have skipped out on his mandatory separation briefings.

Agamemnon
02-12-2013, 03:11 PM
Alright MacGruder... I would think Al-Qeada would fall over themselves at the chance to prove the American government wrong. We're coming up on two years out and they've confirmed the kill and haven't released a public statement from Osama since.

Do you think the CIA got naked pictures of his mom or something to shut him up? This guy isn't well known for his cooperation with the U.S. government.

My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".

cutthemdown
02-12-2013, 03:11 PM
Just because he shot Bin Laden doesn't mean he is more special then the soldier who shot at jow blow terrorist. We should be making sure they all get medical care and help when they get home.

With another 34 thousand coming back from Afghanistan soon this will be really important.

My buddy only did 4 yrs in the marines, got discharged because of an injury. He recently went to the local VA and got bennies so no way they cut people off. He served way back in the early 90's. Not sure what he is getting but he told me starting in march he will be going to the VA for healthcare. It is taking him awhile to get signed up.

Taking care of troops should be one of those easy issues both sides agree on. Govt should be happy and pass a veteran jobs bill or even a tax cut.

I would have no problem with say giving former soliders a few years of a tax break after they are honorably discharged.

cutthemdown
02-12-2013, 03:13 PM
My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".

I sort of believe them but its not out of the realm of possibility we don't know exactly what happened or that he could be alive still.

Jimmy Carter kept the Argo thing a secret when it could have helped him. For all we know our govt knew where bin laden was for a long long long time before they killed him.

I do believe they got him though because the other side admitted we got him. Hard to lie about that.

Agamemnon
02-12-2013, 03:34 PM
I sort of believe them but its not out of the realm of possibility we don't know exactly what happened or that he could be alive still.

Jimmy Carter kept the Argo thing a secret when it could have helped him. For all we know our govt knew where bin laden was for a long long long time before they killed him.

I do believe they got him though because the other side admitted we got him. Hard to lie about that.

What other side? A few anecdotal "Yes I saw them kill him" from family members? Al Jazeera, who are no better informed on the matter than the western media? Yeah none of that really holds any water. If they killed him when and where they say they did, why is there zero actual evidence of it?

The official story is swiss cheese and all Freedom of Information Act requests for actual proof have been denied by our government. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around all the people accepting the government's story despite all the signs that it's bull****.

broncosteven
02-12-2013, 05:09 PM
Just because he shot Bin Laden doesn't mean he is more special then the soldier who shot at jow blow terrorist. We should be making sure they all get medical care and help when they get home.

With another 34 thousand coming back from Afghanistan soon this will be really important.

My buddy only did 4 yrs in the marines, got discharged because of an injury. He recently went to the local VA and got bennies so no way they cut people off. He served way back in the early 90's. Not sure what he is getting but he told me starting in march he will be going to the VA for healthcare. It is taking him awhile to get signed up.

Taking care of troops should be one of those easy issues both sides agree on. Govt should be happy and pass a veteran jobs bill or even a tax cut.

I would have no problem with say giving former soliders a few years of a tax break after they are honorably discharged.

It took my dad a while to get signed up too but it is the best benefit he has ever had from any employer in his whole life.

He went in dragging and kicking but loves it now, he has people of his age who experienced the same type of things he did he can talk to.

People look down at VA's because they think they are 2nd rate but actually they have improved leaps and bounds over the last 10+ years. He might not get a private room but the quality of Doctors is very high.

broncosteven
02-12-2013, 05:10 PM
My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".

Area 51...just sayin...

That One Guy
02-12-2013, 05:23 PM
My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".

Wait.. so you think he might've been captured that night... or he might not've. He might be dead... or he might not be. You're just adamant that the story that he was captured and is now dead is impossible.

You're literally just deciding the government lied for absolutely no reason and you have no idea what the lie could be.

orinjkrush
02-12-2013, 05:54 PM
so much of this story smells. first, if he left at 16 yrs, he either was mustered out for cause or he left on his own. nobody, i mean NOBODY, in the military does not know the retirement impact of leaving at 16. you are briefed on it. now, there used to be a graduated retirement at 15, but i don't know if its still in effect. apparently not.
second, every security company in the world would die to get an ex seal on staff, for a lot more than a chief petty officer's pay. so, what's up with that?
there has to be more to the story than what we read.

That One Guy
02-12-2013, 06:14 PM
so much of this story smells. first, if he left at 16 yrs, he either was mustered out for cause or he left on his own. nobody, i mean NOBODY, in the military does not know the retirement impact of leaving at 16. you are briefed on it. now, there used to be a graduated retirement at 15, but i don't know if its still in effect. apparently not.
second, every security company in the world would die to get an ex seal on staff, for a lot more than a chief petty officer's pay. so, what's up with that?
there has to be more to the story than what we read.

I think he thought he'd be a hero or walked into a position as an executive or consultant - if not maybe a book deal or something. Whatever it was, he expected something and didn't get it and now he's regretting leaving at 16. The answer is to get his name in the news.

Note the whole story revolves around, "Come on, I'm the guy that killed Bin Laden. Shouldn't I get something for that?".

Rabb
02-12-2013, 06:38 PM
As for the Seal not knowing about benefits, he must have skipped out on his mandatory separation briefings.

this was my exact first thought, I had to sit through a whole day of that ****

Bronco Yoda
02-12-2013, 06:43 PM
Single payer healthcare system for all.

Yep.

A HEALTHY nation is a productive nation.

C130Herkload
02-12-2013, 09:42 PM
There is not nor has there been a 15 year retirement option available in the military.

Im currently this week going through my transition briefing and its been a lot of information to take in, but its all very clearly presented. There is a slew of websites the VA runs that deal solely with all aspects of the switch to civilian life. This poor guy was probably burned out, true. But there are other options in his community in a support role that would have carried him over the 20year point.

He wasnt screwed as the article states. Being in for 16 years, he would have known what it took to get to a point where benefits would kick in, however meager they currently are. Its not an easy process leaving the military, regardless of what your role was...no way this guy was that naive. He did a truly heroic thing, but that type of mission was what he volunteered for. Sad, but to be singled out...no. Lots of folks leave after less than 20, happens every day.

As I said, Im enduring the retirement process now after 21 years and its scary, especially in this economic climate-I get to be unemployed in 6 mos. I feel for the guy-I really do, but given his skillset-he'll land on his feet. Probably soon too.

Agamemnon
02-13-2013, 04:37 AM
Wait.. so you think he might've been captured that night... or he might not've. He might be dead... or he might not be. You're just adamant that the story that he was captured and is now dead is impossible.

You're literally just deciding the government lied for absolutely no reason and you have no idea what the lie could be.

I never said it was impossible, but when someone says they did something while refusing to offer any proof they actually did it, and worse, seem to have made a point of disposing of any evidence one way or the other, I become very suspicious. When it's the U.S. government, who everyone knows lives off of lies and secrets, that suspicion simply balloons. There are some very naive people in this thread.

That One Guy
02-13-2013, 06:02 AM
I never said it was impossible, but when someone says they did something while refusing to offer any proof they actually did it, and worse, seem to have made a point of disposing of any evidence one way or the other, I become very suspicious. When it's the U.S. government, who everyone knows lives off of lies and secrets, that suspicion simply balloons. There are some very naive people in this thread.

Having skepticism and assuming a conspiracy are two totally different things.

Agamemnon
02-13-2013, 06:12 AM
Having skepticism and assuming a conspiracy are two totally different things.

I never called it a conspiracy. That's a term people throw around to try and discredit viewpoints like mine. I'm saying that they are almost certainly lying about what exactly happened because if they were telling the truth there would actually be some kind of proof. The utter lack of proof and their complete avoidance of giving any indicates obfuscation. Period.

That One Guy
02-13-2013, 08:26 AM
I never called it a conspiracy. That's a term people throw around to try and discredit viewpoints like mine. I'm saying that they are almost certainly lying about what exactly happened because if they were telling the truth there would actually be some kind of proof. The utter lack of proof and their complete avoidance of giving any indicates obfuscation. Period.

There is plenty of proof he was captured on that night yet you question it as well. You're plain crazy and just looking for lies. I'll just leave it at that.

orinjkrush
02-15-2013, 06:55 AM
There is not nor has there been a 15 year retirement option available in the military.

Im currently this week going through my transition briefing and its been a lot of information to take in, but its all very clearly presented. There is a slew of websites the VA runs that deal solely with all aspects of the switch to civilian life. This poor guy was probably burned out, true. But there are other options in his community in a support role that would have carried him over the 20year point.

He wasnt screwed as the article states. Being in for 16 years, he would have known what it took to get to a point where benefits would kick in, however meager they currently are. Its not an easy process leaving the military, regardless of what your role was...no way this guy was that naive. He did a truly heroic thing, but that type of mission was what he volunteered for. Sad, but to be singled out...no. Lots of folks leave after less than 20, happens every day.

As I said, Im enduring the retirement process now after 21 years and its scary, especially in this economic climate-I get to be unemployed in 6 mos. I feel for the guy-I really do, but given his skillset-he'll land on his feet. Probably soon too.

sorry, not true. they offered it for several years. i have several friends who retired at 15. and not on medicals either. but, clearly not in effect now.
regardless, leaving at 16 is generally just not smart.

That One Guy
02-15-2013, 09:44 AM
sorry, not true. they offered it for several years. i have several friends who retired at 15. and not on medicals either. but, clearly not in effect now.
regardless, leaving at 16 is generally just not smart.

I know there were a few drawdown periods where they tried to get people out early (after the gulf war and again in the late 90s, I believe) but I think that was always a thing where they just bought out their retirement. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being allowed to retire before 20 years.

orinjkrush
02-17-2013, 10:05 AM
I know there were a few drawdown periods where they tried to get people out early (after the gulf war and again in the late 90s, I believe) but I think that was always a thing where they just bought out their retirement. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being allowed to retire before 20 years.

well, i personally know two: one army major and one usaf major. both retired, with full (for 15 years) retirement benefits (not bought out). if my memory serves, it was about '97 when they left. anyhow, still tangential to the OP.

99.9% of the time leaving at 16 is not smart, financially.