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View Full Version : Fast, fun car - good mileage? Any advice?


cmhargrove
02-07-2013, 03:54 PM
Ok, so I am getting ready to have my youngest child driving in a couple months. Our tradition is that we hand down our older cars to the kids and upgrade. My wife says it's time for me to "get a fast car" as I pass down my 2002 GMC Yukon XL (family boat) to my son.

So, any recommendations?

If possible, I would also like something with the best city mileage I can get. So, fast.... Yet as easy as possible on the gas... Can I do both???

I have always been a Mustang fan, so I started looking at the new v6 convertibles, and talked with someone locally about adding a supercharger. So, good gas mileage when I don't hammer down (better than the GT), but fun when I do.

I thought I would ask for suggestions. Any advice?

MagicHef
02-07-2013, 04:19 PM
I have a 2001 MR2 with a turbo added. Ridiculously fast and handles better than anything else I've ever driven. It only has 2 seats and absolutely no cargo room, though.

I can get close to 40 mpg if I drive responsibly. Somehow that never happens, though, so it's more like 30-35 mpg.

Paladin
02-07-2013, 04:25 PM
Tesla

CEH
02-07-2013, 04:59 PM
Tesla

They have a tesla store inside park meadows mall
Strange to see a car store inside the mall

MagicHef
02-07-2013, 05:12 PM
Whoa, I just realized that my car is 12 years old. You're probably looking for something newer.

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 05:20 PM
I really want to buy another 3 series BMW. They have the new 4 cylinder with a Turbo that is supposed to be really good on mileage. They also offer it in a 6 with Turbo. If you don't get navigation and every upgrade package they do make sense. Mine is on 112,000 miles. I want to see how many miles I can get out of it. I still love the thing and would buy another in a heart beat.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 05:31 PM
how fast you wanna go is based on how much you wanna spend. How much do you wanna spend?

Ironlung
02-07-2013, 05:32 PM
If you like mustangs & superchargers check out a 03-04 Cobra (Terminator). I absolutely love mine. Ive never been in a car thats more fun....gas mileage? Not so great but ive never heard of a 500 hp car getting good gas mileage.

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 05:33 PM
Hmm, the M3 is the best selling true performance car in the world and a great ride - but you get what you pay for.

The Caddy CTS-V is a really solid drive as well, it has a corvette V8 or just the CTS with the 3.6 V6 - I am not sure if they do a V6 version with blow, but I am sure you could put a turbo on it.

Mogulseeker
02-07-2013, 05:40 PM
They're planning on introducing a new version of the Tesla at less than 60k.... might be worth looking into. I'm not sure if it's been rolled out yet. I took a class on venture capital as an undergrad and I did a profile on Elon Musk. The man is a genius.

hades
02-07-2013, 05:43 PM
I've heard some really good things about the 6 cylinder Mustang and a turbo, instead of a super charger. Can't go wrong with either tho! :thumbsup:

I had an 01 GT with twin turbos, and my MPG was the same when I didn't have lead foot syndrome, compared to when it was stock.

BroncosfanGuy
02-07-2013, 05:46 PM
Subaru Impreza WRX
boxer engine, turbo, smooth ride, decent mileage, AWD, affordable, it's a Subaru so as long as you maintain it, it'll probably last a long while.

Check out the STI model

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Subaru Impreza WRX
boxer engine, turbo, smooth ride, decent mileage, AWD, affordable, it's a Subaru so as long as you maintain it, it'll probably last a long while.

Check out the STI model

There are few things thirstier than a 2 L 4 cylinder engine with a huge turbo that is being caned - but when you don't put the hammer down it is good on gas.

BroncosfanGuy
02-07-2013, 05:54 PM
There are few things thirstier than a 2 L 4 cylinder engine with a huge turbo that is being caned - but when you don't put the hammer down it is good on gas.

yeah, I was taking the city driving thing into consideration when I was talking about the gas mileage. Definitely don't want to be flooring it and turboing all the time otherwise it'll drain your gas fo sho. But as far as finding the median between a good city car & a quick ride on the interstate, I think it's a good car

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 05:59 PM
Subaru has come out with a little RWD only sports car, a little pocket rocket so to speak. They are also building it for Scion and rebaging it as a Scion but it's got the same boxer engine and is RWD. Toyota is investing in Subaru hence this new project/relationship.

Ironlung
02-07-2013, 06:17 PM
Subaru has come out with a little RWD only sports car, a little pocket rocket so to speak. They are also building it for Scion and rebaging it as a Scion but it's got the same boxer engine and is RWD. Toyota is investing in Subaru hence this new project/relationship.

My neighbor just got one of these. It looks sweet but only 190hp. It's just begging for turbos.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 06:21 PM
My neighbor just got one of these. It looks sweet but only 190hp. It's just begging for turbos.

yah but how light is it? I think that is one reason Subaru didn't go with the AWD, weight savings. You don't need a lot of horsepower if you got a lighter car.

I'm sure it's not blindingly fast...

Tim
02-07-2013, 06:31 PM
I commute to work in a 335i BMW, and that fits your criteria. Maybe not the most economical or quickest but it will hold its own vs others listed in this thread without a goofy looking wing on the back.

Cito Pelon
02-07-2013, 06:43 PM
Subaru Impreza WRX
boxer engine, turbo, smooth ride, decent mileage, AWD, affordable, it's a Subaru so as long as you maintain it, it'll probably last a long while.

Check out the STI model

That's probably the best bang for the buck vehicle on the road, IMO. I see a lot of them, drove a couple of them, very nice vehicle. Not a "status" vehicle, though.

Dude in the OP may want a status fast and fun vehicle, and that would be the BMW or the Lexus. The 3 series, the 5 series from BMW or the Lexus IS or GS series. Those are the premium vehicles for fast and fun - with luxury.

Ironlung
02-07-2013, 06:45 PM
yah but how light is it? I think that is one reason Subaru didn't go with the AWD, weight savings. You don't need a lot of horsepower if you got a lighter car.

I'm sure it's not blindingly fast...

2762lbs. Weighs more than i would've guessed. I like the looks of these cars alot. They certainly look fast.

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 06:50 PM
I commute to work in a 335i BMW, and that fits your criteria. Maybe not the most economical or quickest but it will hold its own vs others listed in this thread without a goofy looking wing on the back.

See! I told you guys.

Nothing like a 3 series.

ak1971
02-07-2013, 06:50 PM
Audi S6

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 06:51 PM
Audi S6

Figured you as a Mini Cooper guy for some reason.

chadta
02-07-2013, 06:52 PM
my buddy has one of these, its awesome

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/s63.php?lang=eng

630 horse V12 family sedan, paddle shifter, fun fun car to drive

Ironlung
02-07-2013, 06:53 PM
I commute to work in a 335i BMW, and that fits your criteria. Maybe not the most economical or quickest but it will hold its own vs others listed in this thread without a goofy looking wing on the back.

I don't think it could hold its own against the sti, cts-v, or cobra.

LRtagger
02-07-2013, 06:53 PM
Ariel Atom

0-60 in 2.9sec and 30 mpg :~ohyah!:

http://nation.towergaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/03arielatom3qs2010.jpg

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 06:54 PM
I don't think it could hold its own against the sti, cts-v, or cobra.

Maybe not from stop light to stop light but on a winding road it would.

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 06:55 PM
my buddy has one of these, its awesome

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/s63.php?lang=eng

630 horse V12 family sedan, paddle shifter, fun fun car to drive

If you for an AMG, get the SL 65 or the C63.

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 06:56 PM
Ariel Atom

0-60 in 2.9sec and 30 mpg :~ohyah!:

http://nation.towergaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/03arielatom3qs2010.jpg

They finally put a windscreen on that sucker....

Ironlung
02-07-2013, 06:57 PM
Maybe not from stop light to stop light but on a winding road it would.

That's highly debateable...and who races on winding roads besides rally drivers?

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 07:18 PM
2762lbs. Weighs more than i would've guessed. I like the looks of these cars alot. They certainly look fast.

hmmm, well, it is under 3000lbs which is kind of rare for a mass produced car, yes? Still, I agree. Throw a turbo on it and call it good.

OBF1
02-07-2013, 07:18 PM
The CTS-V is one bad mother, I would take over a 3 series any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

Supercharged 6.2L V8 putting down 556 horse power and 551 ft lbs of torque... A 3 class dreams about those kinds of numbers.

19x10'" wheels with monster 285/35/19 Michelin pilot's

Read the following link, 190mph with the 6 speed manual transmission and the following quote, " the company held nothing back in the ride and handling department. For those forgetting, the four-door version was the first sedan to crack 8 minutes around the infamous Nürburgring, and was the fastest four-door in the world for a few years, until the new 2012 M5 gave the ‘Ring a run, which is said to be a few seconds faster around the track.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/11/review-2012-cadillac-cts-v-coupe/

OBF1
02-07-2013, 07:21 PM
Or get an old Renault R5 Turbo II, pulls over a G in the handling department and fast as hell to boot. If it was good enough for James Bond, it is good enough for any of us.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 07:21 PM
Cadillac has real quality control issues. I wouldn't touch one.

Ironlung
02-07-2013, 07:23 PM
The CTS-V is one bad mother, I would take over a 3 series any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

Supercharged 6.2L V8 putting down 556 horse power and 551 ft lbs of torque... A 3 class dreams about those kinds of numbers.

19x10'" wheels with monster 285/35/19 Michelin pilot's

Read the following link, 190mph with the 6 speed manual transmission and the following quote, " the company held nothing back in the ride and handling department. For those forgetting, the four-door version was the first sedan to crack 8 minutes around the infamous Nürburgring, and was the fastest four-door in the world for a few years, until the new 2012 M5 gave the ‘Ring a run, which is said to be a few seconds faster around the track.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/11/review-2012-cadillac-cts-v-coupe/
It's an amazing car...and thats bone stock! When you start modding these cars they can be absolute monsters.

Cito Pelon
02-07-2013, 07:26 PM
Audi S6

Reliability issues.

chadta
02-07-2013, 07:28 PM
you want fast and good mileage, get an R1, or some other liter bike, 200 horse, 300 lbs will do the quarter mile in mid 9's bone stock, and still get 35-50 MPG

Cito Pelon
02-07-2013, 07:32 PM
That's highly debateable...and who races on winding roads besides rally drivers?

Well, the mark of a good car is how it does overall, and that includes on winding roads.

MagicHef
02-07-2013, 07:39 PM
Well, I was certainly aiming for the wrong tax bracket.

Tim
02-07-2013, 07:54 PM
I don't think it could hold its own against the sti, cts-v, or cobra.
Off the showroom floor tested by car and driver magazine a few years ago:

BMW 13.6 @ 106
Sti. 13.3 @ 103

Trap times trump et in most drag racing circles when the argument is who is faster or has more power.

cmhargrove
02-07-2013, 07:57 PM
Well, I was certainly aiming for the wrong tax bracket.

No, I think I'm with you. I want to find something fun, but I'm looking to keep the whole package under 40k. Some of the suggestions here seem a bit over my budget.

That One Guy
02-07-2013, 07:58 PM
My Silverado and Forenza both can do 90 MPH on the freeway. How much faster do you need?

Cito Pelon
02-07-2013, 08:01 PM
The CTS-V is one bad mother, I would take over a 3 series any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

Supercharged 6.2L V8 putting down 556 horse power and 551 ft lbs of torque... A 3 class dreams about those kinds of numbers.

19x10'" wheels with monster 285/35/19 Michelin pilot's

Read the following link, 190mph with the 6 speed manual transmission and the following quote, " the company held nothing back in the ride and handling department. For those forgetting, the four-door version was the first sedan to crack 8 minutes around the infamous Nürburgring, and was the fastest four-door in the world for a few years, until the new 2012 M5 gave the ‘Ring a run, which is said to be a few seconds faster around the track.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/11/review-2012-cadillac-cts-v-coupe/

Cadillac is putting their nose into the premium market along with BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes. Cadillac doesn't have the long history those brands do, though.

GM has some history of innovative kind of vehicles, the Oldsmobile Toronado for instance. Front wheel drive luxury car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Toronado

Cadillac had FWD in the Eldorado with the same platform, also some of their later models like the DTS, CTS.

Too bad the quality sucked, it was common to see Cadillacs with paint flaking off exposing primer, or being towed. Alright, history lesson over.

Cadillac has improved their quality lately and got themselves into the conversation at least for premium luxury vehicles.

loborugger
02-07-2013, 08:05 PM
A VW GTI is fun and fast and about 30 MPG. Its pricey - but not as pricey as the other stuff that is being suggested in this thread. I have one that I bought used and I really dig it. If you are tall, the VWs have more room than other cars. I had a Mustang a while back and the GTI has better leg & head room. The downside to the GTI is that a fix can be expensive - but no more so than the Merc or BMWs that people are recommending.

MagicHef
02-07-2013, 08:07 PM
No, I think I'm with you. I want to find something fun, but I'm looking to keep the whole package under 40k. Some of the suggestions here seem a bit over my budget.

How much of a back seat do you want?

Cito Pelon
02-07-2013, 08:08 PM
No, I think I'm with you. I want to find something fun, but I'm looking to keep the whole package under 40k. Some of the suggestions here seem a bit over my budget.

Hit the BMW dealer used cars or the Lexus dealer used car lot. Have some fun on test rides, they want you to buy the car, that's for sure. They'll have plenty of selection and you can let 'em rip a little bit.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 08:14 PM
No, I think I'm with you. I want to find something fun, but I'm looking to keep the whole package under 40k. Some of the suggestions here seem a bit over my budget.

Get a used Porsche Turbo, fantastic cars. You can get a used 996 for under $50k. These were the first water cooled Porsches, with the tear drop design front headlights. For whatever reason this particular look is not as popular with most Porsche enthusiasts hence the lower prices:

http://cars.yakaz.com/porsche-996-turbo-for-sale#cc=US&cname=Type&s=10&univ=cars&v=txt&what=porsche%20996%20turbo%20for%20sale

Go big or go home.

More info on the 996:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_996

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 08:23 PM
Cadillac is putting their nose into the premium market along with BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes. Cadillac doesn't have the long history those brands do, though.

GM has some history of innovative kind of vehicles, the Oldsmobile Toronado for instance. Front wheel drive luxury car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Toronado

Cadillac had FWD in the Eldorado with the same platform, also some of their later models like the DTS, CTS.

Too bad the quality sucked, it was common to see Cadillacs with paint flaking off exposing primer, or being towed. Alright, history lesson over.

Cadillac has improved their quality lately and got themselves into the conversation at least for premium luxury vehicles.

Well said.

I have read a lot of good things about what they are doing, they certainly are now in the converstation. I did do some comparision shopping between the 2 a couple months ago, I will stick with BWM because they have been doing it year in and out. Plus I love that they went the turbo rout on the new 2013 cars. guys like me only need the kick for passing, I not burning rubber from light to light so the savings on gas mileage would benefit me.

Plus you get German engineering.

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 08:27 PM
Get a used Porsche Turbo, fantastic cars. You can get a used 996 for under $50k. These were the first water cooled Porsches, with the tear drop design front headlights. For whatever reason this particular look is not as popular with most Porsche enthusiasts hence the lower prices:

http://cars.yakaz.com/porsche-996-turbo-for-sale#cc=US&cname=Type&s=10&univ=cars&v=txt&what=porsche%20996%20turbo%20for%20sale

Go big or go home.

More info on the 996:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_996

My 2nd car was a used 928 I think it was an '83. I loved that car, that engine is still probably out on the street running. I couldn't afford to keep it nice at the time, stuff like the sun roof broke down (though they did include a manual crank which I thought was cool) and I needed to drive 35 miles to a new job in bad weather conditions so I sold it and bought a 4x4. I should have kept it. The couple bad snow days we had I was the only idiot who made it in, everyone else got the day off. I would buy another one if the wife would let me have a 3rd car.

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 08:37 PM
A VW GTI is fun and fast and about 30 MPG. Its pricey - but not as pricey as the other stuff that is being suggested in this thread. I have one that I bought used and I really dig it. If you are tall, the VWs have more room than other cars. I had a Mustang a while back and the GTI has better leg & head room. The downside to the GTI is that a fix can be expensive - but no more so than the Merc or BMWs that people are recommending.

Knock on wood but I haven't had any real big fix issues outside of maint. I had to replace a washer tank because it cracked and a tail light assembly I got reimbursed due to a recall. You get free oil changes and stuff for the 1st couple years.

Nothing terrible, my wifes Durango had an issue where it would switch it'self into 4 low when the thing was off, like it was haunted or something. Had to replace the transfer case, it cost over $1500. I haven't had that on the BWM and I have had the BMW for over 10 years now.

I bought non OEM brakes and had a guy put them on for me and saved some money that way. I also have him do the recommended maint stuff in the book.

If you go to a dealer and do the 100k recommended service it will cost you $2k but if you do most of it with a mechanic you trust you can save lots of money and keep it running at it's best.

Tombstone RJ
02-07-2013, 08:42 PM
My 2nd car was a used 928 I think it was an '83. I loved that car, that engine is still probably out on the street running. I couldn't afford to keep it nice at the time, stuff like the sun roof broke down (though they did include a manual crank which I thought was cool) and I needed to drive 35 miles to a new job in bad weather conditions so I sold it and bought a 4x4. I should have kept it. The couple bad snow days we had I was the only idiot who made it in, everyone else got the day off. I would buy another one if the wife would let me have a 3rd car.

My family has owned a 928, a 928S and a 928GTS over the years, along with various and asundry 911 models of all kinds, a 914-6 (which we dropped a bigger boxer engine into for racing purposes), a even a 924S. I have a family member who just got a twin turbo Cayenne that's a freaking rocket ship.

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 08:47 PM
No, I think I'm with you. I want to find something fun, but I'm looking to keep the whole package under 40k. Some of the suggestions here seem a bit over my budget.

Build a 3 series on the BMW website. You can get into a 325i with coldweather package leather seats for a couple grand under that.

The killer is when you start adding the Nav and trim upgrades.

For the hell of it I just priced out a 320i (they must not offer the 325i anymore) with cold weather ($950) and the Premium package ($3,200) for $39,595.

People get scared off by the badge but they are still a reasonable car to get into. If you figure to have it for a long time like I did and you get 10-15 years out of it, it is well worth the investment.

Plus they sell a cheaper 1 series now, if your getting on becoming an empty nester and don't need a lot of space.

Mediator12
02-07-2013, 09:23 PM
I don't think it could hold its own against the sti, cts-v, or cobra.

No but the M3 will ;D However, none of the aforementioned are going to be gas friendly, most are going to need premium fuel as well.

I also prefer the Audi S6 though AK :welcome:

Mediator12
02-07-2013, 09:54 PM
Seriously though, buy a used BMW M5 or Audi S6 with a certified warranty. Best deal you will ever get. Both are rediculous values as they will last forever and they drive like they were built to cruise at 150 MPH on the AutoBahn. Going 90 on the highway is like doing 55 in an american or japanese car. Just test drive one before you buy. The 2010 models are nice and around 40K locally.

Look for cars coming off leases and haggle. That's what I do. Had my last 2 German cars for 12 and 13 years respectively and My mechanic bought both of them from me they were in such excellent shape.

DenverBroncosJM
02-07-2013, 10:28 PM
370z

Under 35k and drives great. I really can't think of another sports car under 35k I could even compare it too

Cito Pelon
02-07-2013, 10:28 PM
There's lots of good advice for hargrove on this thread.

Me, I'd like to own a Porsche 928 sometime. The engine note on those is distinctive, like the Ferrari V-12's, the Honda CBX. The engine note turns your head, you hear it and your head snaps around to see what produced that sound. You want to own a vehicle sometime in your life that snaps heads like that.

Broncojef
02-07-2013, 11:16 PM
With the new Corvette C7 on the way C6s can be had very cheap. Base models have 450hp and a v8 that gets me 20mpg city and 28mpg highway. I bet you could pick-up a base model for low40s or a vert mid 40s, should be some good deals out there.

Broncojef
02-07-2013, 11:22 PM
I own a cts-v, a lot of fun, same engine as the zr1 but weighs a lot more. I took my buddies breath away the first test drive I gave him. I highly recommend this car.


The CTS-V is one bad mother, I would take over a 3 series any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

Supercharged 6.2L V8 putting down 556 horse power and 551 ft lbs of torque... A 3 class dreams about those kinds of numbers.

19x10'" wheels with monster 285/35/19 Michelin pilot's

Read the following link, 190mph with the 6 speed manual transmission and the following quote, " the company held nothing back in the ride and handling department. For those forgetting, the four-door version was the first sedan to crack 8 minutes around the infamous Nürburgring, and was the fastest four-door in the world for a few years, until the new 2012 M5 gave the ‘Ring a run, which is said to be a few seconds faster around the track.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/11/review-2012-cadillac-cts-v-coupe/

wandlc
02-07-2013, 11:22 PM
BMW 335D, good performance, comfort, and fuel economy.

waz06
02-08-2013, 12:01 AM
What the hell? We are already on page 3 and not a single mention of a Vette. For 40k you can pick up a used Corvette ZO6 with performance that will embarass most expensive european supercars.
Not many people realize that the newer vettes get great gas mileage too. I get above 20 mpg when I keep my speed below 3 digits. (and it takes great restraint to do this because it is so quick to get past 100). And get a good radar detector like BEL electronics or Valentine 1 or you will lose your license.
Yes it is a 2 seater but you can always borrow back the Yukon from your son if you need to haul more .
Try to test drive a ZO6 and take it out on some winding road. The car has almost a 50/50 front to rear weight distribution plus its low profile and big fat tires allows it to take curves easily. And its lightning quick acceleration will leave a silly grin on your face.

:thumbsup:did not see broncojef's post above

Cito Pelon
02-08-2013, 12:24 AM
What the hell? We are already on page 3 and not a single mention of a Vette. For 40k you can pick up a used Corvette ZO6 with performance that will embarass most expensive european supercars.
Not many people realize that the newer vettes get great gas mileage too. I get above 20 mpg when I keep my speed below 3 digits. (and it takes great restraint to do this because it is so quick to get past 100). And get a good radar detector like BEL electronics or Valentine 1 or you will lose your license.
Yes it is a 2 seater but you can always borrow back the Yukon from your son if you need to haul more .
Try to test drive a ZO6 and take it out on some winding road. The car has almost a 50/50 front to rear weight distribution plus its low profile and big fat tires allows it to take curves easily. And its lightning quick acceleration will leave a silly grin on your face.

:thumbsup:did not see broncojef's post above

And that is the problem right there. You get two people and a sandwich in the car. You can't even get a change of clothes in the car for an overnight trip.

Boobs McGee
02-08-2013, 12:43 AM
No, I think I'm with you. I want to find something fun, but I'm looking to keep the whole package under 40k. Some of the suggestions here seem a bit over my budget.

Couple questions... are you looking new, used, and have you considered leasing? ANYTHING is going to be better than your Yukon on gas, but is there a certain range you want to be in mileage wise?

Bighorn
02-08-2013, 06:54 AM
Ever think about an SRT8 Jeep Grand Cherokee? They are all wheel drive Almost 500hp. They are pretty sweet. A buddy of mine has one and its funny as hell when we pull up beside people with "hotrods" and blow their doors off with grandmas Grand Cherokee!! Dodge and Chrysler have come a long ways. The new Dart has a performance edition as well as the SRT8 Challenger.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2013, 07:08 AM
Ever think about an SRT8 Jeep Grand Cherokee? They are all wheel drive Almost 500hp. They are pretty sweet. A buddy of mine has one and its funny as hell when we pull up beside people with "hotrods" and blow their doors off with grandmas Grand Cherokee!! Dodge and Chrysler have come a long ways. The new Dart has a performance edition as well as the SRT8 Challenger.

Ummmmm, did you miss his one major criteria?

I would also like something with the best city mileage I can get.

The SRT8: 12 mpg in the city......if you're lucky.

Bighorn
02-08-2013, 07:55 AM
Ummmmm, did you miss his one major criteria?



The SRT8: 12 mpg in the city......if you're lucky.

I saw that. But what kind of mileage do you think a Vet gets?? If you want a fast car your going to have to burn fuel. It's not like the old days when gas was orange had lead in it and you could get 20mpg with a muscle car. Im just a big advocate of cars built in Detroit.

Mediator12
02-08-2013, 07:59 AM
There are great cars mentioned here, just promise me you will at least drive an M3 or M5 before you buy something else. I was not convinced until I drove it. Stats are for sports, cars are all about looks, feel, and drivability. I love mine, just drive it ;D

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2013, 08:10 AM
I saw that. But what kind of mileage do you think a Vet gets??


And that was also a piss poor suggestion IMO, given the OP's criteria.

If you want a fast car your going to have to burn fuel. It's not like the old days when gas was orange had lead in it and you could get 20mpg with a muscle car. Im just a big advocate of cars built in Detroit.

There are PLENTY of fast vehicles out there today that get 20+ mpg in the city. Hell, there are non turbo 4 cylinder cars out there today that go FAR faster than anyone could ever go in real life. They may not be as flashy as the examples given here, but the OP never said anything about it having to look flashy.

Burning fuel is one thing. Burning a gallon every 10 miles or so is another.

MagicHef
02-08-2013, 08:26 AM
Ummmmm, did you miss his one major criteria?



The SRT8: 12 mpg in the city......if you're lucky.

The M5s and CTS-Vs are right there too, 14 each. I don't know what kind of room he wants, but to get fast, fun and fuel efficient, smaller is always better.

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2013, 08:32 AM
Let's just be honest. If all you really want is fast, fun and fuel efficient, go spend $20-25K at a Mazda dealership and call it a day. If you're looking for more of a status symbol and are willing to spend more and sacrifice the fuel efficiency, then this thread has you more than covered.

MagicHef
02-08-2013, 08:45 AM
Let's just be honest. If all you really want is fast, fun and fuel efficient, go spend $20-25K at a Mazda dealership and call it a day. If you're looking for more of a status symbol and are willing to spend more and sacrifice the fuel efficiency, then this thread has you more than covered.

Yep.

However, his wife told him to get a fast car. I know I'm generalizing, but that could easily mean "nice car." If he has $40k to spend and she has an interest in what he's driving, I don't think she wants her husband in a Mazda.

Or maybe I'm way off. Completely possible.

Also, he mentioned that he was looking at a convertible.

I might suggest a slightly used Boxster, unless a back seat is important. A little better gas mileage than the V6 Mustang, looks good, very fun to drive.

ColoradoDarin
02-08-2013, 09:03 AM
You're on the right track with the Mustang. I miss my old Acura CL Type S (V6 260hp), that sucker was fast and still got 22/30. Had to sell it because kids car seats don't go in those. Too bad they stopped making them. I don't think Acura makes a true coupe anymore.

Boobs McGee
02-08-2013, 09:34 AM
BMW 335 or the 1 series twin turbo six, OR the M's (used), Subaru wrx sti, mitsubishi lancer evo, hyundai genesis r spec, ford taurus sho or the mustang, challenger srt8, any AMG mercedes, the sky is really the limit for $40k. One thing you might look into, is the Dinan upgrades for BMW. Ridiculous power, but pricey. Honestly, for the money though, the Subaru and Mitsi are two of the easiest to upgrade, fastest, and moderately priced out of the group.

IHaveALight
02-08-2013, 09:36 AM
Find you a nice used reliable Mazda, Toyota or Honda for 5k to 10 k. Pay cash, free yourself from slavery to the banks, work less and live more.

cmhargrove
02-08-2013, 09:44 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions.

I now have three (almost grown) kids, and spent the last couple decades driving the obligatory minivans, SUV's, and cars that make great family sense.

I actually grew up going to Mustang shows with some family friends, and really had some love for american muscle cars (especially Fords). As a matter of fact, it is still a long term dream for me to build my own 427 Shelby Cobra kit, but that will have to wait until all three boys have finished college (time sink, money sink). Also, with gas at $3.50 per gallon it just doesn't make econmical sense for me right now.

So, this go around, I definitely have my eye on something a little more fun. I would still like a back seat when necessary, but it doesn't have to be super comfortable or large (even though my oldest son is 6'4" 340 - this isn't for him!). I want something that will be fun around town, maybe a little flashy, but could also get good highway mileage as my wife and I like to take short weekend trips. So, several of the suggestions have got me looking in new directions. It's nice to hear what models people are really happy with long-term since I tend to own a car for about 10 years (passing down the family line).

If there are any more suggestions, keep 'em coming. I'm already checking out several of the models discussed here.

gyldenlove
02-08-2013, 09:47 AM
How much does a new GTR go for? that thing is a ****ing monster. If you want to go cheaper, go with an older Supra, put twin turbos on the V6 and you should get around 400-450 BHP and a sweet soundtrack.

Captain 'Dre
02-08-2013, 09:52 AM
I have a 2001 MR2 with a turbo added. Ridiculously fast and handles better than anything else I've ever driven. It only has 2 seats and absolutely no cargo room, though.

I can get close to 40 mpg if I drive responsibly. Somehow that never happens, though, so it's more like 30-35 mpg.

I have a Miata and LOVE it.

Handles great, is zippy and gets good fuel economy-- 31/hwy, 26/city

If you need a lot of passenger room or trunk space, however, you're **** out of luck. :angel:

crush17
02-08-2013, 10:03 AM
CTS-V or GTFO!

Captain 'Dre
02-08-2013, 10:06 AM
What the hell? We are already on page 3 and not a single mention of a Vette. For 40k you can pick up a used Corvette ZO6 with performance that will embarass most expensive european supercars.
Not many people realize that the newer vettes get great gas mileage too. I get above 20 mpg when I keep my speed below 3 digits. (and it takes great restraint to do this because it is so quick to get past 100). And get a good radar detector like BEL electronics or Valentine 1 or you will lose your license.
Yes it is a 2 seater but you can always borrow back the Yukon from your son if you need to haul more .
Try to test drive a ZO6 and take it out on some winding road. The car has almost a 50/50 front to rear weight distribution plus its low profile and big fat tires allows it to take curves easily. And its lightning quick acceleration will leave a silly grin on your face.

:thumbsup:did not see broncojef's post above

Historically, wheelbase issues have kept 'vettes from having great handling. Fast? You bet! But lack the maneuverability of plenty of other sports cars.

Captain 'Dre
02-08-2013, 10:12 AM
I have a friend with a Porsche Cayman...

It has the same chassis as the Boxter, but looks more like a 911, and is fast and handles like a dream. Used, you can easily get one for $35K in great shape.

Only a 2 seater, but at least (as a mid-engine) has both a front and rear trunk. :)

broncocalijohn
02-08-2013, 10:12 AM
They're planning on introducing a new version of the Tesla at less than 60k.... might be worth looking into. I'm not sure if it's been rolled out yet. I took a class on venture capital as an undergrad and I did a profile on Elon Musk. The man is a genius.

Well **** then Smurf! His kid is getting ready to drive so why not buy him a $60k car!

Go with the Gremlin. Stylish, very much a classic, fast and good gas mileage. If it was good enough to be highly featured in a Mike Myers movie, it should be good enough for your kid.

MagicHef
02-08-2013, 10:12 AM
I have a Miata and LOVE it.

Handles great, is zippy and gets good fuel economy-- 31/hwy, 26/city

If you need a lot of passenger room or trunk space, however, you're **** out of luck. :angel:

I have never driven anything so fun. At first, it seemed too impractical, but after a while I realized that I never use my back seat. We have a minivan to carry the kids around, so even if I did have a back seat, we wouldn't all cram into a small 4 door when we could have much more space. I don't know about turbos on Miatas, but the MR2 is an entirely different car with it.

broncocalijohn
02-08-2013, 10:15 AM
I have a Miata and LOVE it.

Handles great, is zippy and gets good fuel economy-- 31/hwy, 26/city

If you need a lot of passenger room or trunk space, however, you're **** out of luck. :angel:

...and it lets every dude know that you are totally available. Miata? Hilarious! I had a girlfriend who got one when they first came out. Within a year I got her to turn it in for a 240 SX. One hydroplaning helped her to agree.

Requiem
02-08-2013, 10:21 AM
1988 Buick Grand National with a supercharger. We call it "mashing."

Beantown Bronco
02-08-2013, 10:23 AM
Hey, even Bill Romanowski drives a Miata.......(granted he was playing a flaming gay guy in the movie The Benchwarmers, but still).

Captain 'Dre
02-08-2013, 10:51 AM
...and it lets every dude know that you are totally available. Miata? Hilarious! I had a girlfriend who got one when they first came out. Within a year I got her to turn it in for a 240 SX. One hydroplaning helped her to agree.

What can I say? I'm secure in my gender identity, and don't feel like a Miata makes me 'feminine'. :angel:

broncocalijohn
02-08-2013, 11:28 AM
What can I say? I'm secure in my gender identity, and don't feel like a Miata makes me 'feminine'. :angel:

Oh, I agree. You totally would have to when driving the Miata. By any chance, when you bought it, did you trade it in with a Volkswagen Cabriolet Convertible? :rofl:

ZONA
02-08-2013, 11:30 AM
cars are for girls, dudes drive trucks. nuff said

Tom A Hawk
02-08-2013, 01:20 PM
get one of these
Mercedes Benz C350 coupe
305 HP V6
30+ on highway
I average 26...drive back and forth to work city/hiway.
I traded a GT Mustang (2005).

Captain 'Dre
02-08-2013, 01:43 PM
Oh, I agree. You totally would have to when driving the Miata. By any chance, when you bought it, did you trade it in with a Volkswagen Cabriolet Convertible? :rofl:

No, a Mazda Rx7. Nowhere NEAR as fun a driving experience.

Clerarly, YOU would be uncomfortable being seen driving a Miata. What does it matter to you if some fellow drivers conclude you might be gay because of the car you're driving? 'Fraid they'll run you off the road and try to seduce you?

broncosteven
02-08-2013, 02:12 PM
My family has owned a 928, a 928S and a 928GTS over the years, along with various and asundry 911 models of all kinds, a 914-6 (which we dropped a bigger boxer engine into for racing purposes), a even a 924S. I have a family member who just got a twin turbo Cayenne that's a freaking rocket ship.

Mine was the 928S. I saw it in Scarface and fell in love with it back in HS. Funny thing was when I went to buy a car I wasn't thinking I had to have a 928 I looked at a new 1989 Mustang GT and figured for about the same money I could have a 928 so I did that. I probably should have bought a more practical daily driver but I was young, very young.

DenverBroncosJM
02-08-2013, 02:32 PM
You at least owe it to yourself to try the 370z. I can guarantee you will not find a faster, better performing "sports car" in that price range. You can get 29 to 30 mpg on the higher probably more if you pay attention.

razorwire77
02-08-2013, 03:37 PM
One of the best older used cars for the money is an E39 M5 BMW (1998-2003).

First of all it's a saloon, so the insurance is more reasonable. Secondly, it has a 400 bhp V8, along with all of the handling you'd expect from an M series. The E39 is also exceptional even by M-Series standards. You'll get 22-25 MPG if you drive fairly conservatively, which is hard when a car is this ****ing awesome.

An E39 in decent shape with decent miles can be had for between 15-20K depending on where you live.

srphoenix
02-08-2013, 04:55 PM
I've really enjoyed my Evo X. 325hp and tq as it stands right now, but with a conservative tune once I buy an ecu cable I should be at 375-400 hp and tq. All wheel drive is a godsend if you live in winter climates and it pulls 1g stock on the skidpad. Plus 4 doors and a trunk are convenient if you plan on living with the car as a daily driver. Around town I average about 22mpg but if your cruising on the freeway you should be getting at least 26mpg.

You should be able to find a non-molested one with relatively lower miles for 22-25k.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd13/omnikron1307/57581266-5296-41ae-ab50-84f0fab39fab_zpsb7195d14.jpg

Cito Pelon
02-08-2013, 05:06 PM
Hargrove, your best bet is go to new car dealerships like BMW, Acura, Mercedes, Lexus, whatever and test drive the many used cars they have. You'll find a huge selection of nice vehicles and they're plenty happy to let you run them around.

Here's some good websites for research:

http://www.caranddriver.com/

http://www.motortrend.com/

http://www.autoweek.com/

edmunds.com and kbb.com have nice resources also, and you can do sortable side-by-side comparisons between vehicles that give you all the data about headroom, trunk space, all the data.

For reliability stats, Consumer Reports is the bible, it will cost you about $30 for a one-year online subscription but well worth the money.

Tombstone RJ
02-08-2013, 07:06 PM
I've really enjoyed my Evo X. 325hp and tq as it stands right now, but with a conservative tune once I buy an ecu cable I should be at 375-400 hp and tq. All wheel drive is a godsend if you live in winter climates and it pulls 1g stock on the skidpad. Plus 4 doors and a trunk are convenient if you plan on living with the car as a daily driver. Around town I average about 22mpg but if your cruising on the freeway you should be getting at least 26mpg.

You should be able to find a non-molested one with relatively lower miles for 22-25k.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd13/omnikron1307/57581266-5296-41ae-ab50-84f0fab39fab_zpsb7195d14.jpg

Si. Love this car. Talk about bang for the buck, AWD, good looks, 4 door and you can get it with a stick or paddle shifter. Very nice. You can probably get a brand new one for less than $40k.

loborugger
02-09-2013, 10:28 PM
Let us know what you get.

Oh, and https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Dq3zEihXk6c&NR=1

:)

lonestar
02-10-2013, 01:19 AM
Audi S6

I have an Audi A5 prestige series. 4 cyl turbo, 8 speed transimission AWD. when the turbo kicks in it is rocket fast.

Gets over 35 on the highway about 25 in town and has every option known to Audi on it. Ricaro racing seats, have had it above 140 with loads of RPM left. Drives turns like your on rails.


Have seen the A6 and they are more for the family man. Outstanding cars that Audi puts out.

Hulamau
02-10-2013, 07:55 AM
Go Audi ... Can't go wrong! Give us a price range for starters.

You want fun ... An R8-GT is fun will set you back $228,000 with ceramic brakes and the 560hp V10 ... Not much room for the kids but you and the Misses will have a scream in' good time and look very good will doing it...

A 2012/13 S4 (my ride) S5 or an A6 can all be had for around $53k to $57k with Audi's wonderful Supercharged V6 333HP- 325lb torque with fabulous handling and ride ... Make sure and get the optional rear sports differential with Quattro ... Can't beat it for staying glued to winding mountain roads at speed.

lolcopter
02-10-2013, 08:51 AM
Scion fr-s

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/12/lead19-2013-scion-fr-s-fd.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/12/lead14-2013-scion-fr-s-fd.jpg

Beantown Bronco
02-10-2013, 09:37 AM
Go Audi ... Can't go wrong! Give us a price range for starters.

You want fun ... An R8-GT is fun will set you back $228,000 with ceramic brakes and the 560hp V10 ... Not much room for the kids but you and the Misses will have a scream in' good time and look very good will doing it...

A 2012/13 S4 (my ride) S5 or an A6 can all be had for around $53k with Audi's wonderful Supercharged V6 333HP- 325lb torque with fabulous handling and ride ... Make sure and get the optional rear sports differential with Quattro ... Can't beat it for staying glued to winding mountain roads at speed.

He said it had to be under 40K

Tombstone RJ
02-10-2013, 09:41 AM
Scion fr-s

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/12/lead19-2013-scion-fr-s-fd.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/12/lead14-2013-scion-fr-s-fd.jpg

See post #15 on first page. This is the car Subaru is building for Toyota.

lolcopter
02-10-2013, 10:04 AM
See post #15 on first page. This is the car Subaru is building for Toyota.

I prefer the FRS to the BRZ

Hulamau
02-10-2013, 11:15 AM
He said it had to be under 40K

Oh! Nevermind then :) but he can definitely get a new Audi A4 premium plus package with Quattro for jus a hair under $40k and that is very much a fun car to drive with 260lbs of torque right in the right passing speeds and great handling/ nice ride balance its a pleasure to own and cruise with.

Later he can do a simple after market computer engine mod and get 5.4 seconds to 60mph out of it. Audi makes superb engines and the 4cyl 2.0 liter turbo is one of the best 4 cylinder engines you can buy with good mileage too for a very response and quick car. The exteriors are primo as well and their Quattro all wheel drive is legendary.

You'd be hard pressed to get more overall balance between fun, great engineering plus refined styling and design from your $40k budget overall.

cmhargrove
02-10-2013, 12:38 PM
After some previous recs, the Audi S4 is definitely on the test drive list. I know the prices can vary, buy maybe finding an off-lease model would be a really good value.

I'm going to test drive a couple Mustangs today, and I'm going to the local Mitsubishi dealer to test drive the Evolution later this week. I think the Audi dealer is pretty close, so I'll hit the A4 then.

lonestar
02-10-2013, 01:15 PM
After some previous recs, the Audi S4 is definitely on the test drive list. I know the prices can vary, buy maybe finding an off-lease model would be a really good value.

I'm going to test drive a couple Mustangs today, and I'm going to the local Mitsubishi dealer to test drive the Evolution later this week. I think the Audi dealer is pretty close, so I'll hit the A4 then.

I have a mustang GT. and the Audi. And frankly until I started driving the Audi the mustang was one hell of a car.

Now when I drive it just to keep the battery charged it is tinny and lots of road noise.

There is zero comparison between the two. ..

wandlc
02-10-2013, 04:27 PM
Cmhargrove, how is your son doing in school? Is he on schedule to get his engineering degree? Also, he will be a junior this coming season, is he going to start at T or G for MUST? Also, again I wouldn't discount the BMW 335d if you can find a used one on a BMW lot at least give it a test drive. I'm also a fan of Audi.

cmhargrove
02-10-2013, 04:47 PM
Cmhargrove, how is your son doing in school? Is he on schedule to get his engineering degree? Also, he will be a junior this coming season, is he going to start at T or G for MUST? Also, again I wouldn't discount the BMW 335d if you can find a used one on a BMW lot at least give it a test drive. I'm also a fan of Audi.

My son has been doing well, but honestly playing football and studying engineering has been a major hill to climb. He is one semester behind right now, but I consider that excellent for the load he has taken on.

Circumstances have changed for him, and I think next fall he will actually be transferring to Oklahoma State to be nearer his girlfriend (they have been seriously dating for more than 2 years). He is a two year letterman in football and has been starting at Right Guard. If you followed S&t this year, you know they went 10-1 and broke the school's all time points record (over 100 seasons at S&T). Anyway, the school is treating the head coach like dirt and he is actively pursuing other coaching jobs (which sucks for S&T football). So, my son feels like things are pointing to a change for him as well.

He is going to take his engineering study to Oklahoma State and walk on this fall. That way he gets to fulfill his childhood dream of playing "big school ball.". The good news is that he started right away freshman year, so he still has a redshirt year to burn while he learns the OSU system. Then, he still has 2 years of eligibility to fight for a starting job. The offense and talent level at Oklahoma State is pretty exciting right now, so I think he is in for a fun ride. He has already been offered jobs from 2 previous internships as long as he just completes his degree, so I think he won't miss too much from losing the S&T degree (we hope).

Anyway, thanks for asking and I'll try to give everyone updates if/when he makes the team at Oklahoma State.

tesnyde
02-10-2013, 04:53 PM
cars are for girls, dudes drive trucks. nuff said

Amen. I can haul stuff, pull stuff, and do stuff.

Cito Pelon
02-10-2013, 04:53 PM
After some previous recs, the Audi S4 is definitely on the test drive list. I know the prices can vary, buy maybe finding an off-lease model would be a really good value.

I'm going to test drive a couple Mustangs today, and I'm going to the local Mitsubishi dealer to test drive the Evolution later this week. I think the Audi dealer is pretty close, so I'll hit the A4 then.

Dunno about Audi's reliability, when I was researching a few years ago Consumer Report's stats didn't look so good.

Lexus and Acura are the reliability kings, and both make models that performance-wise are comparable or better than Audi.

If you're looking used or coming off a lease, I'd sure be test driving a Lexus IS or GS. Just the resale value on those is a BFD. They hold their value better than other cars. You can have fun with them for a few years, and get better resale value than an Audi.

Hulamau
02-11-2013, 12:26 AM
Hey Cito,
Audi reliability is fine. Particularly over the last decade . Consumer Reports is a very unreliable reporter in many of their surveys for a good while. It Wasnt always that way.

Audi used to have some issues until absorbed into VW group as the main flagship engineering arm of the conglomerate .. They then put big bucks into LeMans 24 hr endurance racing and the major effort there which had resulted in 11 wins over the last 13 years .. Amazing dominance in a race that demands reliability.

Most all of that engineering experience has trickled down directly into their passenger car line and majorly increased Audis performance, engineering , overall design and reliability.

Go talk to almost any top Indepedent German car mechanic outfit in most major cities and ask them who makes a better car these days BMW, Merc or Audi... I know of five highly respected such high end Euro car outfits Three of which are former head mechanics at BMW San Francisco, the largest BMW dealer in Houston and the third was head honcho at North Scottsdale BMW ... The other two I spoke with worked at Mercedes and Jaguar respectively for years but were not running those service depts,.

All five own their own independent shops now and each one of them said hands down they prefer working on Audis over BMWs and MBs.. Especially over more recent vintage BMW models which the former head of BMW Houston said has taken a real nose dive iin quality in the drivetrain and interior fit and finish in recent years... It's why he quit after 15 years rnning the whole service department there and opened his own shop.

The story from each of these men was essentially the same.. And all five strongly recommended Audi over the other two German makers for better bang and reliability for the buck all around...

I've previously owned three Audis the first the original Audi Quattro Coupe in 1980...and now have two, a '12 A4 for the wife and '12 S4 for me we got at the same time with a modest Twofer discount ... Have had three BMWs 1986 325e, '97 328i and 2002 330 soft-top and one Acura Legend in 1992 ranging ftom the mid 80s up to 2004 and I wouldn't think about buying another Beamer as long as Audi keeps making cars like they have been the last decade...

This steady increase in design, performance and reliability over the last decade is the main reason Audi has moved ahead of MB sales and has almost caught BMW as well in this market.

Lexus cars are way too mushy and Japanesey for my liking . They are okay reliability wise as are most Japanese cars, but for my taste their definition of what looks and feels luxurious has just too much shinny bling with too many bells and whistles... The Japanese haven't quite got the understated yet refined luxury look and feel down to date, though they are making some progress in that area.. They are nice and comfy for sure and plush, but still not in the German league overall in my book.

To each his own Cito, but go spend a little time in the new gen Audi's before you make your decision ... I think you'll be surprised.

lonestar
02-11-2013, 01:53 AM
My father in law back in the early 80s had an Audi and every time I drove it something broke on it.

I had shied away from them when looking and then I got this A5 and love it. Have zero complaints other than the complexity of all the doodads..

May never figure our how everything works.

ZONA
02-11-2013, 02:26 AM
Amen. I can haul stuff, pull stuff, and do stuff.

Oh yeah, these guys can tool around the city in their little sports cars. I'd take a Ford Raptor any day and head off road. I can tow anything, haul anything, still throw down on the highway as fast as I could really stand to go. Sports car might get me off the line by a few seconds but that's not enough to out weigh all the benefits of having a truck vs a car.



Isn't it a beauty?



http://www.wall-pix.net/albums/vehicles-cars/00025485.jpg

fontaine
02-11-2013, 04:04 AM
If you don't care about mileage, cornering, refinement, being able to go long haul (say over 1 hour) in comfort, an ugly pastic interior then yeah go for the mustang.

Ironlung
02-11-2013, 06:11 AM
If you don't care about mileage, cornering, refinement, being able to go long haul (say over 1 hour) in comfort, an ugly pastic interior then yeah go for the mustang.

Lol

Ironlung
02-11-2013, 06:36 AM
Oh yeah, these guys can tool around the city in their little sports cars. I'd take a Ford Raptor any day and head off road. I can tow anything, haul anything, still throw down on the highway as fast as I could really stand to go. Sports car might get me off the line by a few seconds but that's not enough to out weigh all the benefits of having a truck vs a car.



Isn't it a beauty?



http://www.wall-pix.net/albums/vehicles-cars/00025485.jpg

The Raptor is a badass truck, but 65k for a truck? I dont think so. For that money id rather have a 650hp 200mph '13 GT500...and thats bone stock!

Mediator12
02-11-2013, 08:10 AM
Hey Cito,
Audi reliability is fine. Particularly over the last decade . Consumer Reports is a very unreliable reporter in many of their surveys for a good while. It Wasnt always that way.

Audi used to have some issues until absorbed into VW group as the main flagship engineering arm of the conglomerate .. They then put big bucks into LeMans 24 hr endurance racing and the major effort there which had resulted in 11 wins over the last 13 years .. Amazing dominance in a race that demands reliability.

Most all of that engineering experience has trickled down directly into their passenger car line and majorly increased Audis performance, engineering , overall design and reliability.

Go talk to almost any top Indepedent German car mechanic outfit in most major cities and ask them who makes a better car these days BMW, Merc or Audi... I know of five highly respected such high end Euro car outfits Three of which are former head mechanics at BMW San Francisco, the largest BMW dealer in Houston and the third was head honcho at North Scottsdale BMW ... The other two I spoke with worked at Mercedes and Jaguar respectively for years but were not running those service depts,.

All five own their own independent shops now and each one of them said hands down they prefer working on Audis over BMWs and MBs.. Especially over more recent vintage BMW models which the former head of BMW Houston said has taken a real nose dive iin quality in the drivetrain and interior fit and finish in recent years... It's why he quit after 15 years rnning the whole service department there and opened his own shop.

The story from each of these men was essentially the same.. And all five strongly recommended Audi over the other two German makers for better bang and reliability for the buck all around...

I've previously owned three Audis the first the original Audi Quattro Coupe in 1980...and now have two, a '12 A4 for the wife and '12 S4 for me we got at the same time with a modest Twofer discount ... Have had three BMWs 1986 325e, '97 328i and 2002 330 soft-top and one Acura Legend in 1992 ranging ftom the mid 80s up to 2004 and I wouldn't think about buying another Beamer as long as Audi keeps making cars like they have been the last decade...

This steady increase in design, performance and reliability over the last decade is the main reason Audi has moved ahead of MB sales and has almost caught BMW as well in this market.

Lexus cars are way too mushy and Japanesey for my liking . They are okay reliability wise as are most Japanese cars, but for my taste their definition of what looks and feels luxurious has just too much shinny bling with too many bells and whistles... The Japanese haven't quite got the understated yet refined luxury look and feel down to date, though they are making some progress in that area.. They are nice and comfy for sure and plush, but still not in the German league overall in my book.

To each his own Cito, but go spend a little time in the new gen Audi's before you make your decision ... I think you'll be surprised.

This about Audi and BMW reliability. I have had both and the newer Audi is everything the old BMW's used to be.

Couple of really important things though if you buy the german cars:

1. Repair and upkeep are much more than the american cars. Find a real good independent mechanic like Hulamau suggested above and make sure he looks at the car before you buy a used one.

2. German Cars feel better on the road, because they are designed to go 120+ on the AutoBahn. They are also designed to survive crashes at 120+ and several of my friends who are firefighters just talk about how much better people survive and are not as seriously injured driving German made cars.

3. The gas Mileage is not going to be as good as you want with the M or S class Cars, but the idea to get a A4 with the four cylinder is better if that really matters. If you have that good Mechanic in your pocket the upgrades are gauranteed and if anything goes wrong, you do not have to worry about the warranty being broken, the Mechanic will gaurantee his work especially if he checks the vehicle out before you buy it. Saved my ass once!

Requiem
02-11-2013, 09:09 AM
Such an absurd about of $ for a car.

Mediator12
02-11-2013, 09:19 AM
Such an absurd about of $ for a car.

It can be, if you buy new. I have not bought a new car since I got out of college and wanted to Show off.

However, you get what you pay for with cars. I started with the German Cars about 15 years ago. Never bought a new one and keep them for 10 years or so. I leased the latest one through the company as it is the best use of money and cheapest way to drive. Wife has gone to the darkside though. Leased a Kia Optima for under $300 a month Brand spanking new with Everything on it. She absolutely loves the panoramic Sunroof and all the bells and whistles with the Iphone. Its a gorgeous car and cheap with excellent features and has a 200k warranty through the local dealer.

I get the badass car though :thumbs:

Requiem
02-11-2013, 10:27 AM
It can be, if you buy new. I have not bought a new car since I got out of college and wanted to Show off.

However, you get what you pay for with cars. I started with the German Cars about 15 years ago. Never bought a new one and keep them for 10 years or so. I leased the latest one through the company as it is the best use of money and cheapest way to drive. Wife has gone to the darkside though. Leased a Kia Optima for under $300 a month Brand spanking new with Everything on it. She absolutely loves the panoramic Sunroof and all the bells and whistles with the Iphone. Its a gorgeous car and cheap with excellent features and has a 200k warranty through the local dealer.

I get the badass car though :thumbs:

I had a crappy car back in high school and ditched in in college when I decided to use public transportation because it got me everywhere I wanted to go for free. I ended up paying $40 a month after graduation to use the metro area transit system so I could get to work if I didn't feel like biking to my law office on the newer side of town about ~ 10 miles from my apartment.

From my apartment now I live about 7 blocks from my federal office where I work, so even in the winter time I just walk it. It makes for good exercise and I have Wanderlust really bad, so it helps me take my mind of things.

I've been saving up for a nice vehicle, but can't even imagine to spend money on a brand new vehicle. It just seems like it is a terrible investment. Pay $30,000 for it on the lot and the second you drive it off -- it depreciates a great deal.

I see a lot of good deals on used one's with relatively low miles, but I would like to get a truck or an SUV, especially if I move back to Colorado or stay in an area where there is snow. They tend to keep their value up in these parts. My cousin just got fleeced on buying a 2005 Mitsubishi SUV with over 100,000 miles and she paid $10,000 for it when Kelly Blue Book booked it out for several grand less. Plus, I like to hike, camp, fish, etc. and do a bunch of outdoor stuff, so I don't see why I'd get a car.

If I want to drive a fun car, I just hop in my dads Z06 and mash. He still sweats bullets when he is in the passenger seat and I'm manning it down, depsite me driving for almost 10 years. :~ohyah!:

People can do whatever they want with their money, but I've never understood why people go out and buy brand new cars. I think it is one of the worst investments you can possibly make. That Ford Raptor up there looks awesome as ****, but in the Dakota's you can get a nice middle-class home that is no more than 50 years old for the same price. It's a priority thing I guess. *shrug*

To each their own. I like being active, whether it's biking, skating or walking to work. I'm also a cheap ass and save every penny I can. I still put coins in a peanut butter jar like a five year old. After a while, it does add up. :)

Mediator12
02-11-2013, 10:52 AM
I had a crappy car back in high school and ditched in in college when I decided to use public transportation because it got me everywhere I wanted to go for free. I ended up paying $40 a month after graduation to use the metro area transit system so I could get to work if I didn't feel like biking to my law office on the newer side of town about ~ 10 miles from my apartment.

From my apartment now I live about 7 blocks from my federal office where I work, so even in the winter time I just walk it. It makes for good exercise and I have Wanderlust really bad, so it helps me take my mind of things.

I've been saving up for a nice vehicle, but can't even imagine to spend money on a brand new vehicle. It just seems like it is a terrible investment. Pay $30,000 for it on the lot and the second you drive it off -- it depreciates a great deal.

I see a lot of good deals on used one's with relatively low miles, but I would like to get a truck or an SUV, especially if I move back to Colorado or stay in an area where there is snow. They tend to keep their value up in these parts. My cousin just got fleeced on buying a 2005 Mitsubishi SUV with over 100,000 miles and she paid $10,000 for it when Kelly Blue Book booked it out for several grand less. Plus, I like to hike, camp, fish, etc. and do a bunch of outdoor stuff, so I don't see why I'd get a car.

If I want to drive a fun car, I just hop in my dads Z06 and mash. He still sweats bullets when he is in the passenger seat and I'm manning it down, depsite me driving for almost 10 years. :~ohyah!:

People can do whatever they want with their money, but I've never understood why people go out and buy brand new cars. I think it is one of the worst investments you can possibly make. That Ford Raptor up there looks awesome as ****, but in the Dakota's you can get a nice middle-class home that is no more than 50 years old for the same price. It's a priority thing I guess. *shrug*

To each their own. I like being active, whether it's biking, skating or walking to work. I'm also a cheap ass and save every penny I can. I still put coins in a peanut butter jar like a five year old. After a while, it does add up. :)

It also depends what you do. I am a consultant and when I drive clients around in a Car that they are a little intimidated in it helps! The Audi and BMW are an investment in My business. I hate to say it, but first impressions go a long way to getting New Clients. Most of these guys are decision makers as well and hard to impress.

That is why it makes long term financial sense for me to have a car like this, and also know what these guys like to drive. It makes me money and provides a great talking point with guys :thumbs: The women clients also like it too, just don't tell the Wife :yayaya:

Rascal
02-11-2013, 11:14 AM
I've driven the hell out of my 6 cylinder honda accord. My wife has an acura tl that really moves, but it takes premium fuel. if you need a family sized car for kids, my vote is on an accord. Besides replacing the brakes/battery/tires/oil and naturally the timing belt I haven't done a thing to it and I've got 150K in 5 years.

Mediator12
02-11-2013, 11:19 AM
I've driven the hell out of my 6 cylinder honda accord. My wife has an acura tl that really moves, but it takes premium fuel. if you need a family sized car for kids, my vote is on an accord. Besides replacing the brakes/battery/tires/oil and naturally the timing belt I haven't done a thing to it and I've got 150K in 5 years.

I had an Accord before and its a solid car, hell the new one looks like the 335! I drove it to 150 as well and the cheaper gas is nice. The V6 engine does leave something to be desired. My wifes Optima has more juice and it does not require premium either.

Ray Finkle
02-11-2013, 11:26 AM
We had Audi's and Benz's. I liked them but get rid of them before 100K miles both cars began to fall apart at that time (I did mostly all the maintenance on them as well). I've had a Highlander Hybrid with almost 100K miles and other than hitting a deer, haven't had an issue.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 11:58 AM
I've watched the evolution of German cars over the years and I gotta say, I'm not really impressed for the most part. Very homogenous, very cookie cutter, very plastic.

The best bang for the buck now is coming out of South Korea IMHO. Their target, of course, is to compete with the Japanese. I also think that bang for the buck, the Japs still do it the best, but Koreans are catching up.

Boobs McGee
02-11-2013, 01:13 PM
After some previous recs, the Audi S4 is definitely on the test drive list. I know the prices can vary, buy maybe finding an off-lease model would be a really good value.

I'm going to test drive a couple Mustangs today, and I'm going to the local Mitsubishi dealer to test drive the Evolution later this week. I think the Audi dealer is pretty close, so I'll hit the A4 then.

MAJOR depreciation hits on European luxury, so an off lease unit is going to be your best up front monetary value if you decide to go that route (there's a reason that more roughly 70% of the "new luxury" market is lease, not finance). Also, keep in mind that if you truly are the type of individual who drives it till the wheels fall off, the cost of ownership for that European engineering is going to be quite steep down the road. It's not that they break down more, but the cost of the parts/repairs is substantially more than American/Japanese/Korean. Audi's are incredible, but just be aware of what you're going to spending over the life of your ownership!

Rascal
02-11-2013, 01:29 PM
I had an Accord before and its a solid car, hell the new one looks like the 335! I drove it to 150 as well and the cheaper gas is nice. The V6 engine does leave something to be desired. My wifes Optima has more juice and it does not require premium either.

What year did you have? My 2006 V6 is fine with me.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 01:57 PM
Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I'm so ahead of the curve! check out this crap, it backs up my rant on German cars being homogenous, plastic, cookie cutter machines:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volkswagen-discovered-the-holy-grail-of-carmakers--192022985.html

PS--I wouldn't by a new VW. Quality is questionable and as other's have mentioned, the parts on German cars (which VW claims to be lol) are over the top.

cartel
02-11-2013, 02:45 PM
Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I'm so ahead of the curve! check out this crap, it backs up my rant on German cars being homogenous, plastic, cookie cutter machines:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volkswagen-discovered-the-holy-grail-of-carmakers--192022985.html

PS--I wouldn't by a new VW. Quality is questionable and as other's have mentioned, the parts on German cars (which VW claims to be lol) are over the top.

shouldn't this make their parts cheaper in the long run? i actually love the gti, was going to buy one, love the engine and utility of hatchbacks. i'm holding out until 2014-15 if audi launches the a3 sportback tdi quattro, that's mine.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 03:12 PM
shouldn't this make their parts cheaper in the long run? i actually love the gti, was going to buy one, love the engine and utility of hatchbacks. i'm holding out until 2014-15 if audi launches the a3 sportback tdi quattro, that's mine.

Nope, it just makes the profits larger for these big conglomerates. More modular is not better. It's just more modular.

Boobs McGee
02-11-2013, 03:12 PM
Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I'm so ahead of the curve! check out this crap, it backs up my rant on German cars being homogenous, plastic, cookie cutter machines:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volkswagen-discovered-the-holy-grail-of-carmakers--192022985.html

PS--I wouldn't by a new VW. Quality is questionable and as other's have mentioned, the parts on German cars (which VW claims to be lol) are over the top.

Well, technically, their MQB platform will (potentially) drive down the cost of parts in the near future. Quality on the new VW's are pretty solid, imo...I've sold/leased 15 jettas/passats/tiguans in the last 8 months, and even their BASE models have a well built feel. Obviously, the reliability remains to be seen, but they have some of the most inexpensive lease options on the market, and are producing some solid vehicles. The only companiues I'm MORE impressed with right now (in terms of innovation, quality, and pricing), are Ford and Subaru.

Boobs McGee
02-11-2013, 03:16 PM
Nope, it just makes the profits larger for these big conglomerates. More modular is not better. It's just more modular.

I'm going to disagree. Obviously, we have to wait and see how it pans out, but the whole business model is designed around having inexpensive parts that can be utilized by a multitude of platforms. SO, instead of having to buy that aerodynamically designed hand crafted blinker fluid container, there will be an interchangeable surplus of them hanging around. Now, CHANGING that part might still be a colossal biotch, and require $100 plus dollars an hour in labor (haha), but the part itself will in theory be more inexpensive.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 03:18 PM
Well, technically, their MQB platform will (potentially) drive down the cost of parts in the near future. Quality on the new VW's are pretty solid, imo...I've sold/leased 15 jettas/passats/tiguans in the last 8 months, and even their BASE models have a well built feel. Obviously, the reliability remains to be seen, but they have some of the most inexpensive lease options on the market, and are producing some solid vehicles. The only companiues I'm MORE impressed with right now (in terms of innovation, quality, and pricing), are Ford and Subaru.

It will increase profits, not necessarily drive down costs. These savings won't be passed on to the customer, especially when fixing your car. You have to remember that fixing and servicing cars is the bread and butter of dealerships, not new car sales. There may be some plateauing of up front pricing on these vehicles but that's about it.

You want to invest in a great German machine--buy a Porsche. Porsche is NOT a car company. It's an engineering firm that just happens to make great cars.

Here's another little fact: Porsche had the chance to BUY VW. That's right, it had the chance to buy the majority shares in VW but it said "hell no."

Porsche knows what it's doing.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 03:21 PM
I'm going to disagree. Obviously, we have to wait and see how it pans out, but the whole business model is designed around having inexpensive parts that can be utilized by a multitude of platforms. SO, instead of having to buy that aerodynamically designed hand crafted blinker fluid container, there will be an interchangeable surplus of them hanging around. Now, CHANGING that part might still be a colossal biotch, and require $100 plus dollars an hour in labor (haha), but the part itself will in theory be more inexpensive.

Well, you got that right. But the consumer won't benefit from this. Sorry.

elsid13
02-11-2013, 03:23 PM
Nope, it just makes the profits larger for these big conglomerates. More modular is not better. It's just more modular.

Modular is better, because it reduce production cost, supply chain cost, line start up cost and provides faster engineering and deployment. And as more companies switch their production to modular format it will decrease cost to the buy, because like computers it becomes a commodity driven market.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 03:26 PM
Modular is better, because it reduce production cost, supply chain cost, lnie start up cost and provides faster engineering and deployment. And as more companies switch their production to modular format it will decrease cost to the buy, because like computers it becomes a commodity driven market.

Like I said, increased profits. But it's not necessarily better for the consumer, quality can go way down too.

elsid13
02-11-2013, 03:34 PM
Like I said, increased profits. But it's not necessarily better for the consumer, quality can go way down too.

Quality usually goes up, because your quality inspectors don't need to be trained in multiply pieces and when end up doesn't work correctly it easier to to identify the root cause. And profits are only going to be high when the competitive advantage is there, once the competition jumps on board it becomes price point issue to win market share.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 03:41 PM
Quality usually goes up, because your quality inspectors don't need to be trained in multiply pieces and when end up doesn't work correctly it easier to to identify the root cause. And profits are only going to be high when the competitive advantage is there, once the competition jumps on board it becomes price point issue to win market share.

I guess we will just agree to disagree. The cost to produce will go down for sure which will increase profit margins. However, if you got one part going into 1 million different vehicles on multiple platforms and that part fails, well then you got a problem, a massive problem. Also, if a part or a few parts have questionable quality to begin with, and a bad design, then it's a massive and systemic failure and a multitude of platforms, affecting millions of consumers all over the world.

Modularity is not new to the car industry and yes, it can be an excellent way to do some things. However, you have to be very careful on how you use it. Modularity on computers is one thing, you aren't going to be driving a computer around and if it breaks down you can get another one for $500.00 or so. Cars, not so much. JMHO of course.

Boobs McGee
02-11-2013, 03:42 PM
It will increase profits, not necessarily drive down costs. These savings won't be passed on to the customer, especially when fixing your car. You have to remember that fixing and servicing cars is the bread and butter of dealerships, not new car sales. There may be some plateauing of up front pricing on these vehicles but that's about it.

You want to invest in a great German machine--buy a Porsche. Porsche is NOT a car company. It's an engineering firm that just happens to make great cars.

Here's another little fact: Porsche had the chance to BUY VW. That's right, it had the chance to buy the majority shares in VW but it said "hell no."

Porsche knows what it's doing.

If you're taking your car to a dealership to get serviced, then I also have some wonderful Volcano Insurance I'd like to talk with you about :D
You're absolutely right, service underwriting IS their bread and butter, and the majority of that profit comes from labor mark ups, AND part costs. Find yourself a reliable independent mechanic, and profit. The dealerships aren't going to change their labor pricing, but IMO you'll see substantial decreases in part pricing once you have a massive production increase.

As to your second point, about porsche buying out VW but saying "hell no" at the last minute...total ****ing bull****. They were doing EVERYTHING in their power to take over VW, including the increase of their shares up to 40% before the market collapsed in 2008. The ONLY reason they didn't go ahead with the market share takeover (which they are on record as saying was their ultimate goal), is because the banks wouldn't lend them any more money. Now they're owned by VW. But seriously, nice try.

chadta
02-11-2013, 03:54 PM
The dealerships aren't going to change their labor pricing, but IMO you'll see substantial decreases in part pricing once you have a massive production increase.

A few phone calls can also save alot of money.

Ford ranger, Mazda B3000 pickup, both the exact same truck. After market emergency brake cables, 3 parts, 69, 69, and 89, ford dealer 89,89,89, mazda dealer 49,49,49.

Valve cover gaskets for the 4L motor, after market 59 bucks, ford 29, mazda 49.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 04:05 PM
If you're taking your car to a dealership to get serviced, then I also have some wonderful Volcano Insurance I'd like to talk with you about :D
You're absolutely right, service underwriting IS their bread and butter, and the majority of that profit comes from labor mark ups, AND part costs. Find yourself a reliable independent mechanic, and profit. The dealerships aren't going to change their labor pricing, but IMO you'll see substantial decreases in part pricing once you have a massive production increase.

As to your second point, about porsche buying out VW but saying "hell no" at the last minute...total ****ing bull****. They were doing EVERYTHING in their power to take over VW, including the increase of their shares up to 40% before the market collapsed in 2008. The ONLY reason they didn't go ahead with the market share takeover (which they are on record as saying was their ultimate goal), is because the banks wouldn't lend them any more money. Now they're owned by VW. But seriously, nice try.

the price on the parts to the independent service shops is still the same price. Your independent guy will still have to pay to get the part. His labor may be cheaper but not the price of the part.

As for Porsche, I'm checking on what you are talking about. I don't recall VW buying Porsche.

Boobs McGee
02-11-2013, 04:10 PM
the price on the parts to the independent service shops is still the same price. Your independent guy will still have to pay to get the part. His labor may be cheaper but not the price of the part.

As for Porsche, I'm checking on what you are talking about. I don't recall VW buying Porsche.

Number one. Everyone marks up the price on their parts differently. Independent shops are almost always more inexpensive in both parts cost AND labor to the consumer.

Secondly.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0911_porsche_and_volkswagen_what_happened/viewall.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/05/volkswagen-buys-porsche

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-11/porsche-market-manipulation-probe-extended-to-supervisory-board.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/01/porsche-vw-finally-say-i-do/

Boobs McGee
02-11-2013, 04:11 PM
A few phone calls can also save alot of money.

Ford ranger, Mazda B3000 pickup, both the exact same truck. After market emergency brake cables, 3 parts, 69, 69, and 89, ford dealer 89,89,89, mazda dealer 49,49,49.

Valve cover gaskets for the 4L motor, after market 59 bucks, ford 29, mazda 49.

You're absolutely correct! It's pretty incredible, but most people would rather just fork over the dough then put in the time for savings.

Tombstone RJ
02-11-2013, 04:32 PM
Number one. Everyone marks up the price on their parts differently. Independent shops are almost always more inexpensive in both parts cost AND labor to the consumer.

Secondly.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0911_porsche_and_volkswagen_what_happened/viewall.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/05/volkswagen-buys-porsche

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-11/porsche-market-manipulation-probe-extended-to-supervisory-board.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/01/porsche-vw-finally-say-i-do/

dude, I know. Point being the friggen cost of the part is the same for everyone. If the independent guy wants to make less on the part that's his call, but he's still paying the same price for the part.

As for VW buying Porsche, fair enough. It's still pretty amazing a smaller manufacturer like Porsche had the chance to buy a huge company like VW to begin with (at least the majority shares). VW now owns 50.1% of Porsche :(

wandlc
02-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Owning 2 German cars, I never pay half of dealer price for an OEM part. There is actually a dealer that has an online parts department that sells the parts at half price. You just have to do your research and learn about your vehicle and where to get the parts. There are several online companies that specialize in selling import OEM car parts far cheaper than the dealer prices, and sometimes they have better quality parts available than the dealer.

Mediator12
02-12-2013, 09:52 AM
Owning 2 German cars, I never pay half of dealer price for an OEM part. There is actually a dealer that has an online parts department that sells the parts at half price. You just have to do your research and learn about your vehicle and where to get the parts. There are several online companies that specialize in selling import OEM car parts far cheaper than the dealer prices, and sometimes they have better quality parts available than the dealer.

This, and I have a world Class Mechanic who specializes in upgrading German cars. We have been friends forever and I get a huge discount by sending him referrals. I have paid 1/4 of the price for repairs and upkeep the last 10 years because we network. Its actually cheaper for me to go to him than have a lesser mechanic work on the car for cheaper Labor costs.

I love dealing with independent shops too. He has sent me several clients as well including one who wanted to drive my car when he took his in to the shop! That was a good day, second largest account I have too :approve:

Tombstone RJ
02-12-2013, 10:26 AM
It will be interesting to see where the independent mechanic is in the next 50 years or so, the technology for the cars is changing rapidly and they are more and more software as much as hardware.

I did speak to a family member about Porsche and basically the minnow "Porsche" got way ahead of itself on 2007 when it made a stock grab for the largest auto company in the world, VW. When the crash came in 2008 it was bad timing and Porsche was so backwards in debt from the loans it took to buy VW stock that VW eventually came in and rescued Porsche.

Its really too bad, but that's what happens when greed and power go to your head. I wouldn't be surpised if Porsche eventually goes back to being and independed manufacturer.

Mediator12
02-12-2013, 11:15 AM
It will be interesting to see where the independent mechanic is in the next 50 years or so, the technology for the cars is changing rapidly and they are more and more software as much as hardware.

I did speak to a family member about Porsche and basically the minnow "Porsche" got way ahead of itself on 2007 when it made a stock grab for the largest auto company in the world, VW. When the crash came in 2008 it was bad timing and Porsche was so backwards in debt from the loans it took to buy VW stock that VW eventually came in and rescued Porsche.

Its really too bad, but that's what happens when greed and power go to your head. I wouldn't be surpised if Porsche eventually goes back to being and independed manufacturer.

The new mechanics have to be software specialists, its not the grease monkeys of old :thumbs: Sure they still get dirty, but they do their best work on the computers and prevent bad things from happening long term. They can pinpoint potential problems by running numbers every six months on the performance. Its really quite interesting, but way over my head ;D

Powderaddict
02-12-2013, 03:22 PM
Forget buying a car for fun. Cars are boring.

Buy a cheap boring car that gets good gas mileage and can get you from A-B in relative comfort. You can find those cheap. Ford Focus, Honda Civic, etc.

Then buy a motorcycle for fun. You can find those cheap as well. For under $5k you can find a used low mileage bike in great condition that will absolutely destroy 99.99% of the cars on the road. Plus, they are just more fun than a car.

Tombstone RJ
02-12-2013, 09:49 PM
Here's a video on the BRZ and where it's built in Japan, it's a little long but interesting:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/txA9JDC9Ivs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>