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View Full Version : Wheel of Time (A Memory of Light) - SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!


TheReverend
02-06-2013, 07:01 PM
GoT has it's own discussion, this sure as hell should too!

Stop reading if you haven't finished the series yet.

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Overall, totally loved the book. After the previous one (specifically the scene on dragonmount), I was worried the entire last battle would be some introspective bull**** where the real enemy was within Rand's heart.

While his fight with the Dark One was fairly introspective, it was done in a really cool way, and the entire book was the last battle so that was amazing.

I did have some gripes though:

- The entire Padan Fain segment of the ending was just kinda "let's get this over with" without any actual give a **** involved. Thought this was just extremely stupid... especially considering he's been a fairly significant role player since book 1.

- Perrin's story line with Slayer was dumb. A LARGE portion of the book is spent in that just so Perrin can have a brief moment where he realizes he's holding back and then beat the living **** out of Slayer.

- WTF Demandred? Dude's killing everyone, meanwhile Moghedien's a complete afterthought and does nothing but get collared.

- Swapping bodies with Moridin... how did it happen anyway? And, really, kinda pointless... they never sell that he's dead for a second.

I thought everything else was perfect. Moraine's return at the council choked me up, Mat's stuff was flawless, loved Rand/LewsTherin, Egwene's stories were awesome, Lan was amazing, etc.

DenverBroncosJM
02-07-2013, 08:44 AM
I have to agree. While reading the book I kept looking at how many pages I had left and thinking no way this is enough! There was not a lot of closure on the storylines. I enjoyed the book and I think Sanderson took on something that ended up being much bigger than he imagined and he just wanted to be done with it.

After reading these books for ten years the ending really felt a bit cheap to me.

Kaylore
02-07-2013, 09:53 AM
I just read the first line of your review to avoid spoilers. So you approve and it's worth trudging through?

And DenverBroncosJM, you think he just closed an open storyline?

TheReverend
02-07-2013, 10:18 AM
I just read the first line of your review to avoid spoilers. So you approve and it's worth trudging through?

And DenverBroncosJM, you think he just closed an open storyline?

Well, I mean, it's hard to put it into perspective.

After 15,000 pages and decades of time, a lot of us have flat out grown up with Rand, Mat, Perrin and everyone and really emotionally attached to the characters and the story.

Largely, the book's pretty fantastic and delivers on the closure. Parts are certainly lacking as highlighted above and the epilogue was super weak, so it left an emotionally attached audience unsatisfied in many ways.

That's my feelings on it, at least.

RIP Jordan. They never should've given your work to a Mormon :wiggle:

Kaylore
02-07-2013, 10:38 AM
Well, I mean, it's hard to put it into perspective.

After 15,000 pages and decades of time, a lot of us have flat out grown up with Rand, Mat, Perrin and everyone and really emotionally attached to the characters and the story.

Largely, the book's pretty fantastic and delivers on the closure. Parts are certainly lacking as highlighted above and the epilogue was super weak, so it left an emotionally attached audience unsatisfied in many ways.

That's my feelings on it, at least.

RIP Jordan. They never should've given your work to a Mormon :wiggle:

Hey! Mormon writers are awesome! Ask Tracey Hickman if he sucks!

Second, did they get a better artist to do the cover art? I know that one artist who did them for a long time and was horrid finally died. The Gathering Storm cover was especially bad. I liked what this guy said about it.

http://hypnerdic.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/a-terrible-disease/

I might try to give WOT a try. After two books I became fatigued at Jordan's writing style. I'm not going to say you are better than Jordan, but your characters are more impactful in their first introduction and you don't let them lie fallow for so long I don't give a crap when I see them again.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-07-2013, 10:44 AM
Ive never read these, but my father has a habit of reading them, but forgetting them at the doctors office, or on the train, or where ever. Though he finally got a kindle, so i guess he doesn't forget that.

There you have it, my worthless two cents.

TheReverend
02-07-2013, 10:45 AM
Hey! Mormon writers are awesome! Ask Tracey Hickman if he sucks!

Second, did they get a better artist to do the cover art? I know that one artist who did them for a long time and was horrid finally died. The Gathering Storm cover was especially bad. I liked what this guy said about it.

http://hypnerdic.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/a-terrible-disease/

I might try to give WOT a try. After two books I became fatigued at Jordan's writing style. I'm not going to say you are better than Jordan, but your characters are more impactful in their first introduction and you don't let them lie fallow for so long I don't give a crap when I see them again.

lol I think Sanderson did a great job, actually. I just think in the end, it showed that it wasn't HIS baby, ya know?

The covers got a LITTLE better at the end, but I know EXACTLY what you're talking about.

Also, you must understand I worship Jordan so it's almost like you're equating me to YHVH in your last paragraph.

You will now be repped with even more frequency.

v2micca
02-07-2013, 11:03 AM
You know, a part of me actually has a hard time believing it is well and truly over. I started reading this series when I was a 15 year old kid. Now, 20 years later, the series finally wraps.

So, a couple of thoughts Spoiler Alerts engaged.....










Sanderson did have a pretty thankless job. As others have said, this just wasn't his baby. Despite his best efforts, at times sequences just come off as a fan writing a big Wheel of Time Fanfiction. His Mat in particular suffers. Sanderson is just trying so hard to make Mat cool and awesome that he kind of overdoes it a little bit and ends up turning him into a strange Han Solo/Malcolm Reynolds fanboi hybrid. Its kind of weird. At times he gets him right, then he just goes way over the top in the next scene.

Perrin was boring. I mostly scanned his parts.

My least favorite female character (by far) finally bites it in this book. Unfortunately, everyone is going to remember her as friggin' hero. Kind of sucks.

Rand's ending was......weird. I mean, there is the whole body swap thing. But, he's just knocked up two women (one with Twins apparently) and decides to ride off into the sunset with apparently no intentions to ever be a father to any of them. Just seemed.....off for the character. I mean, it was an ending that I could have seen happening to Mat way more than Rand. Just really odd.

Speaking of Rands ending......reminds me of a quote that Robert Jordan had made way back in the day. It was around the time that his 7th book was just released and he was doing the whole book tour. He had mentioned that he already had plans for his next series tentatively called Shipwrecked, which would involve a character more mature than Rand, without Rand's super powers, who gets shipwrecked and washed up on the shore of a very Seanchan Empire like land. I'm now almost wondering if he was actually teasing a spin-off series to the Wheel of Time. I guess we will never know.

So, in summary. If you have read at least 10 of the 13 previous books, you might as well finish the series at this point. Otherwise, I would advise stopping at Book 5, reading the wiki, and calling it a day.

Kaylore
02-07-2013, 11:18 AM
lol I think Sanderson did a great job, actually. I just think in the end, it showed that it wasn't HIS baby, ya know?

The covers got a LITTLE better at the end, but I know EXACTLY what you're talking about.

Also, you must understand I worship Jordan so it's almost like you're equating me to YHVH in your last paragraph.

You will now be repped with even more frequency.

Well....I'll knock you down a peg then. I like his characters more than yours. You are good at introducing characters. You reveal their character elements and motivations in not beat-you-over-the-head ways. This really helps in remembering them and caring enough to remember them. But caring about them only happens if you like the characters. I'd say for me, you're not there yet, but it could be my style preference. You don't write material that I usually read.

I never tell a writer what they should do instead. I learned that is not helpful. But I will share what doesn't work for me. That's always seems to be helpful.

TheReverend
02-07-2013, 01:03 PM
You know, a part of me actually has a hard time believing it is well and truly over. I started reading this series when I was a 15 year old kid. Now, 20 years later, the series finally wraps.

So, a couple of thoughts Spoiler Alerts engaged.....

Egwene had definitely lost favor with me during the series, but that was pretty substantially regained during her fight against the Seanchan at the White Tower. I thought that whole sequence was pretty awesome.

Obviously the way she went out in aMoL was pretty amazing too.

Archer81
02-07-2013, 01:11 PM
Nice. Need a new series of books to read. I did not read the spoilers. I wish to be surprised.


:Broncos:

SeedReaver
02-07-2013, 01:11 PM
My brother is huge into these books. I've read the first two, and while I enjoyed them, I felt it was quite laborious to get through them. I've heard the eight (I think) book was terribly laborious, but how are the others? I have the third book bought on my Kindle, but I think I may try to get through the third book of Game of Thrones first before the new season starts.

TheReverend
02-07-2013, 01:40 PM
My brother is huge into these books. I've read the first two, and while I enjoyed them, I felt it was quite laborious to get through them. I've heard the eight (I think) book was terribly laborious, but how are the others? I have the third book bought on my Kindle, but I think I may try to get through the third book of Game of Thrones first before the new season starts.

7-10 are pretty rough, honestly.

Requiem
02-07-2013, 01:47 PM
MS Paint the spoilers, plz.

Kaylore
02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
My brother is huge into these books. I've read the first two, and while I enjoyed them, I felt it was quite laborious to get through them. I've heard the eight (I think) book was terribly laborious, but how are the others? I have the third book bought on my Kindle, but I think I may try to get through the third book of Game of Thrones first before the new season starts.

This is exactly me. It's not bad reading, but it's hard reading. Like a more fun Moby Dick.

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 01:59 PM
Huzzah! I am not the biggest nerd on this board!

SeedReaver
02-07-2013, 02:50 PM
MS Paint the spoilers, plz.

In order. My interpretation of Rev's comments, of course. SPOILER ALERT!

TheReverend
02-07-2013, 06:17 PM
^ that's one of the best posts I've ever seen. Amazing work.

DenverBroncosJM
02-07-2013, 06:59 PM
I just read the first line of your review to avoid spoilers. So you approve and it's worth trudging through?

And DenverBroncosJM, you think he just closed an open storyline?

Hmm best way to put it was what Rev said you have an emotional attachment and I think ...hmm I'm trying not to ruin it. Read it and then bump this and ill see what you think!

Overall the book is great maybe I'm just bitter because the series is complete now.

FYI Peter Brett new book in the warded man series comes out Tuesday!

McDman
02-07-2013, 07:39 PM
A long time ago I read the first 7 or 8 books and lost all interest. Recently I read the first 7 or 8 again and lost interest. I probably enjoyed the first 3 and made myself read the others. He could have done this series in so much less and actually made them interesting.

Out of the fantasy I've read these are pretty bad. Almost every character is unlikeable. Everyone of them becomes annoying and it wears thin.

v2micca
02-08-2013, 02:51 AM
In order. My interpretation of Rev's comments, of course. SPOILER ALERT!

holy **** I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

TheReverend
02-08-2013, 05:07 AM
holy **** I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

Glorious, wasn't it?

Your shipwrecked tidbit was pretty awesome. I wonder if they intend to grab another fantasy writer to tie it together somehow?

Broncomutt
02-08-2013, 06:14 AM
A long time ago I read the first 7 or 8 books and lost all interest. Recently I read the first 7 or 8 again and lost interest. I probably enjoyed the first 3 and made myself read the others. He could have done this series in so much less and actually made them interesting.

Out of the fantasy I've read these are pretty bad. Almost every character is unlikeable. Everyone of them becomes annoying and it wears thin.

Had a similar experience.

I first picked up and read Eye of the World just after The Great Hunt came out. I was about 18 and really enjoyed them, so much so that when The Dragon Reborn came out I re-read the first 2 books. Me and 4 friends all started reading the series.

But these books get really ponderous after the first few. They lack for suspense. The characters really get tiresome and I found I didn't care what happened to them. They do become annoying. When I finally finished the 6th book, I was done, and knew I would never touch the 7th.

Of the 4 friends that started this series none of us ever made it past the 6th book. Maybe it gets better, I dunno. I think you really have to be a hardcore Fantasy novel addict to make it all the way through this series.

A book I found alot closer to Martin's ASOIAF, that has the harsh reality of war, rape, torture, and characters you'll love (and love to hate), is Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth and World Without End. Follet's not afraid to snuff out central characters like Martin does.

Jordan's books lack suspense and edginess. Not trying to sh*t on Jordan's work, some of the books were OK, they just wear you down after awhile. I kinda feel like I just eventually outgrew them.

TheReverend
02-08-2013, 06:37 AM
Kinda floored that people are having this kind of reaction to the first 6.

Isn't 6 the one with Dumai's Wells? That's hands down one of the most exciting scenes in any book I've ever read.

McDman
02-08-2013, 11:41 AM
My biggest thing is once you get about five books in there is literally almost no likeable character. Matt is a sketchy A-hole. Perrin had potential to be awesome but turns into a pussy. Rand just goes crazy and has no redeeming qualities.

I also feel like Martin must have never actually talked to a woman before. How stereotypical can you make every woman? It is all nagging and no worth to the story.

Requiem
02-08-2013, 12:02 PM
Sounds like I won't be reading these.

SeedReaver
02-08-2013, 04:22 PM
Sounds like I won't be reading these.
The Wheel of Time series is often heralded as the only fantasy series that holds a candle to (or exceeds) Tolkien. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

Agamemnon
02-08-2013, 05:00 PM
Read the first book but couldn't finish the second. I found his writing style rather painful to read honestly. Game of Thrones is infinitely better in my opinion.

TheReverend
02-08-2013, 05:10 PM
The Wheel of Time series is often heralded as the only fantasy series that holds a candle to (or exceeds) Tolkien. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

This... it's practically the quintessential series that defines the genre. Kinda amazed at all the negativity up in this bitch. I understand it's so ****ing long that it's intimidating but... this is a little excessive.

Taco John
02-08-2013, 05:32 PM
I'm actually just about to start this one. I'm in the middle of Elantris by Brandon Sanders right now.

DenverBroncosJM
02-08-2013, 06:09 PM
I'm actually just about to start this one. I'm in the middle of Elantris by Brandon Sanders right now.

Really good read

McDman
02-08-2013, 06:44 PM
The Wheel of Time series is often heralded as the only fantasy series that holds a candle to (or exceeds) Tolkien. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

It is nowhere near Tolkien and Martin is much better. I couldn't put any of his books down, save maybe the fourth which was tough.

McDman
02-08-2013, 06:48 PM
This... it's practically the quintessential series that defines the genre. Kinda amazed at all the negativity up in this b****. I understand it's so ****ing long that it's intimidating but... this is a little excessive.

Haha, but it is legit criticism. I don't see how anyone could like any of the characters. They're all terrible past the third book. The length is ridiculous too. Even making it 8 books would have been much better.

Also, you said you have read them since the beginning. I think a lot of your love may be from a nostalgic point of view. If someone my age, 27, starts them it is going to be nowhere near as enjoyable as they would be if a 13 year old starts them.

McDman
02-09-2013, 05:15 AM
I came across this review awhile back and thought you guys would enjoy it. If you have read this series, no matter whether you liked or dislike it, you need to read this. It's pretty hilarious and even if you like it much of it rings true.

Rev, you definitely won't agree with it but parts had me laughing out loud.

http://forum.malazanempire.com/index.php?showtopic=21832&st=0

Kaylore
02-09-2013, 07:36 AM
It is nowhere near Tolkien and Martin is much better. I couldn't put any of his books down, save maybe the fourth which was tough.

Martin is a better writer but I have issues with him too. First, is he kills off too many characters - good characters. I applaud that he is willing to break some eggs. Many writers don't. And I know he wants to create "real fear" for the reader, but by Storm of Swords I was starting to not want to emotionally invest in any character because I figured sooner or later they were going to get killed. And there are so many who are so good it seems like a waste!

He also takes a bit too long to set things up. I'm not crazy about the way his books constantly switch between characters. I realize he has to to get his stage set, especially given the scope of what he does, and he does it pretty well, but it's not a style I'm a fan of. I hate getting into a character, reading a great scene and then you have to "work through" three chapters of characters who are doing something less interesting or who you don't care as much for as the one in a critical situation.

That said, I can empathize with every single character he creates. That alone is amazing. I like his heroes, I like his villains, I like his sub characters. Even some bastard making a helmet is believable. That is what drives good stories for me; Good characters you want to read about. I suppose since he can make so many he has no qualms about discarding them willy-nilly. lol.

Kaylore
02-09-2013, 07:49 AM
I came across this review awhile back and thought you guys would enjoy it. If you have read this series, no matter whether you liked or dislike it, you need to read this. It's pretty hilarious and even if you like it much of it rings true.

Rev, you definitely won't agree with it but parts had me laughing out loud.

http://forum.malazanempire.com/index.php?showtopic=21832&st=0

This is hilarious.

You couldn't be more insulting of someone's talent if you hired a ninja to mow your lawn or Elton John to **** your wife.

Agamemnon
02-09-2013, 08:05 AM
This... it's practically the quintessential series that defines the genre. Kinda amazed at all the negativity up in this b****. I understand it's so ****ing long that it's intimidating but... this is a little excessive.

I've read so much fantasy that is vastly superior that the idea that it "defines the genre" just causes me to laugh. I mean if you like it cool, but it doesn't define anything other than the quintessential overly long fantasy series.

TheReverend
02-09-2013, 08:22 AM
I came across this review awhile back and thought you guys would enjoy it. If you have read this series, no matter whether you liked or dislike it, you need to read this. It's pretty hilarious and even if you like it much of it rings true.

Rev, you definitely won't agree with it but parts had me laughing out loud.

http://forum.malazanempire.com/index.php?showtopic=21832&st=0

Haha, that was fun to read. This was my favorite part because it rang the truest to me: "LOOK GANG, A SPUNKY NEW SEAFOLK CHANNELER that you don't give a **** about."

Drunk Monkey
02-09-2013, 10:23 AM
LALALALALALALALa.................... will be back here when I finish my current book and then Memory of Light

JCMElway
02-09-2013, 10:29 AM
If you all like Brandon Sanderson's work, I highly recommend picking up his Mistborn series. Great books.

McDman
02-09-2013, 11:18 AM
I'm going to start calling my junk a steddingpenis.

McDman
02-09-2013, 11:50 AM
Martin is a better writer but I have issues with him too. First, is he kills off too many characters - good characters. I applaud that he is willing to break some eggs. Many writers don't. And I know he wants to create "real fear" for the reader, but by Storm of Swords I was starting to not want to emotionally invest in any character because I figured sooner or later they were going to get killed. And there are so many who are so good it seems like a waste!

He also takes a bit too long to set things up. I'm not crazy about the way his books constantly switch between characters. I realize he has to to get his stage set, especially given the scope of what he does, and he does it pretty well, but it's not a style I'm a fan of. I hate getting into a character, reading a great scene and then you have to "work through" three chapters of characters who are doing something less interesting or who you don't care as much for as the one in a critical situation.

That said, I can empathize with every single character he creates. That alone is amazing. I like his heroes, I like his villains, I like his sub characters. Even some bastard making a helmet is believable. That is what drives good stories for me; Good characters you want to read about. I suppose since he can make so many he has no qualms about discarding them willy-nilly. lol.

Agree with almost all of this. Martin is the opposite at Jordan to me. There are quite a few characters in his books I love to read about.

Kaylore
02-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Agree with almost all of this. Martin is the opposite at Jordan to me. There are quite a few characters in his books I love to read about.

Thanks to Martin's glacial pace of writing, they unfortunately could both be authors who die before they can finish their work. I can't imagine who they would tap to finish Game of Thrones.

TheReverend
02-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Thanks to Martin's glacial pace of writing, they unfortunately could both be authors who die before they can finish their work. I can't imagine who they would tap to finish Game of Thrones.

The HBO people. I believe that contingency plan has been already been arranged for and he's given them key plot lines etc.

Martin was a big WoT fan (though judging from this thread the series is apparently ****?) and has several references to that series (as well as LoTR).

Marillion, Sam Tarly and Jon:Samwise and Frodo, etc

As far as the WoT references go, this one is my favorite:

House Jordayne, led by Trebor (Robert backwards) that rule over Tor (the publisher of WoT) and the house motto is "Let it be written" haha.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Wheel of Time was solid for me. I think Song of Ice and Fire, Symphony of Ages, and Sword of Truth annihilate it. Still, I really enjoyed it, and it was quite epic.

I thought Sanderson finished relatively strong. His Egwene was better than Jordan's, but his Mat was just off. Mat was my favorite character in the series, and I just never felt like Sanderson had a true grasp of his wit. I agree the Padan Fain part was ridiculously bad at the end, as well as the entire Slayer/Luc/Perrin/Gaul storyline. I thought Rand finished strong at least, and the ending seemed right to me. I also never understood the entire Moraine/Thom angle. That seemed pulled straight out of someone's ass.

Still, the series was well worth the read, but there are better out there.

Kaylore
02-09-2013, 02:52 PM
The HBO people. I believe that contingency plan has been already been arranged for and he's given them key plot lines etc.

Martin was a big WoT fan (though judging from this thread the series is apparently ****?) and has several references to that series (as well as LoTR).

Marillion, Sam Tarly and Jon:Samwise and Frodo, etc

As far as the WoT references go, this one is my favorite:

House Jordayne, led by Trebor (Robert backwards) that rule over Tor (the publisher of WoT) and the house motto is "Let it be written" haha.

That's actually pretty awesome.

Drunk Monkey
03-01-2013, 05:51 AM
I thought AMoL was great. Any time you get a series that is 15,000 pages and 20 years long an ending is going to be tough to pull off. I agree with the above points on Padin Fain. Disagree with the Hon Solo Matt. He was a little more over the top but that played well into his generalship of the last battle. The amount of action that was jammed into this book was epic. It is like they tried to make up for the snooze fest in books7-10. All things considered I enjoyed the series. Maybe I will read it again in another 50 years or so.

TheReverend
03-01-2013, 06:30 AM
I thought AMoL was great. Any time you get a series that is 15,000 pages and 20 years long an ending is going to be tough to pull off. I agree with the above points on Padin Fain. Disagree with the Hon Solo Matt. He was a little more over the top but that played well into his generalship of the last battle. The amount of action that was jammed into this book was epic. It is like they tried to make up for the snooze fest in books7-10. All things considered I enjoyed the series. Maybe I will read it again in another 50 years or so.

Yeah that's how I felt too

Taco John
03-01-2013, 09:36 AM
I'm having a hard time getting through Elantris. I can't say I'm a fan of Sanderson. His characters are too shallow and templated for my liking. It's hard to go from the texture and depth of the 200+ characters in the Game of Thrones to the Padme Amidala clone, and buddy sidekicks in Elantris. But I trudge on...

Broncos_OTM
03-01-2013, 10:38 AM
Vood book finnished about a month ago. bout time