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orinjkrush
02-04-2013, 07:14 AM
Granted, it turned out to be an exciting game, but, I thought the officiating was about as one sided as you could get.

meaning, no calls generally let the Raven's thuggery continue, just as they pulled off in their other post season games.

I saw one non-call on the 49ers and about 10 non calls on the Ravens.

Thoughts?

Hulamau
02-04-2013, 07:22 AM
When 49er fans know a little of how we feel with that last non PI call in the end zone on Williams or whoever it was mugging Crabtree.. Would have won the game for them had he not been held...

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 07:24 AM
Granted, it turned out to be an exciting game, but, I thought the officiating was about as one sided as you could get.

meaning, no calls generally let the Raven's thuggery continue, just as they pulled off in their other post season games.

I saw one non-call on the 49ers and about 10 non calls on the Ravens.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that the games are fixed.
I was blasted when i said it before..Once Lewis announced his retirement, refs made sure he wins the SB.
For instance..4TH AND 29...it was never converted..it was yard short.

TonyR
02-04-2013, 07:30 AM
Would have won the game for them had he not been held...

If the call was made, as it should have been, it would have given the Niners first and goal at the 1. Depending on how many plays it took to score from there, assuming they did score, it would have left the Ravens far less than two minutes to drive for a FG. The score would have been 35-34 Niners at that point if they went for 2 and failed, 37-34 if they got the 2 point conversion.

Mouth
02-04-2013, 07:35 AM
My thoughts are that the games are fixed.
I was blasted when i said it before..Once Lewis announced his retirement, refs made sure he wins the SB.
For instance..4TH AND 29...it was never converted..it was yard short.

I'm with you on the fix being in, but I'm not sure it was a complete fix, just a ref thing. How many judgement calls went against the ravens? Also, how many holding calls did the ravens o-line get called for all playoffs? The 3 penalties the ravens were called for were roughing the passer (have to show we care about player safety) running into the kicker (safety issue again, and it could have been a 15 yarder) and unnecisary(sp?) roughness that was offset.

It's not scripted, but it is most definitely favoring the ravens.

Mouth

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 07:36 AM
one more thing...champ will never win SB..He doesn't deserve it.plays like **** when it matters.

Kaylore
02-04-2013, 07:39 AM
one more thing...champ will never win SB..He doesn't deserve it.plays like **** when it matters.

You suck

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dL78BKa5LCs/UCSd1zKD54I/AAAAAAAAB68/XRSoVocGOus/s1600/19+-+2005+AFC+-+Patriots+@+Broncos.jpg

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 07:39 AM
I'm with you on the fix being in, but I'm not sure it was a complete fix, just a ref thing. How many judgement calls went against the ravens? Also, how many holding calls did the ravens o-line get called for all playoffs? The 3 penalties the ravens were called for were roughing the passer (have to show we care about player safety) running into the kicker (safety issue again, and it could have been a 15 yarder) and unnecisary(sp?) roughness that was offset.

It's not scripted, but it is most definitely favoring the ravens.

Mouth

I never said the complete game is fixed..it's just that all of a sudden Ravens became most disciplined team in NFL once Ray announced his retirement.
Wish we had a player like him in our team that can influence ref's.

Wes Mantooth
02-04-2013, 07:41 AM
one more thing...champ will never win SB..He doesn't deserve it.plays like **** when it matters.

you my friend are an idiot.

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 07:41 AM
You suck

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dL78BKa5LCs/UCSd1zKD54I/AAAAAAAAB68/XRSoVocGOus/s1600/19+-+2005+AFC+-+Patriots+@+Broncos.jpg

Hilarious!

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 07:47 AM
you my friend are an idiot.

HOF players elevate the game when it mattered..
Players like manning, Champ and coaches like Fox panic.
Manning is the overrated QB.
He like Brett Favre will screw the team during crunch time.

We need players like Elway...

Kaylore
02-04-2013, 07:54 AM
HOF players elevate the game when it mattered..
Players like manning, Champ and coaches like Fox panic.
Manning is the overrated QB.
He like Brett Favre will screw the team during crunch time.

We need players like Elway...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ni7rZvHU1qgzdhjo1_r1_250.gif

Meck77
02-04-2013, 07:59 AM
It was terrible. I think college sports will see in an increase in popularity over the next decade or so as more and more people shun $100-$1000 seats, $100 million contracts, and side shows like Ray Lewis, strikes, and what sure seems like crooked officiating.

With that being said one of the greatest sporting events is about to unfold. March Madness. It's hard to beat the pure competitive nature of College Basketball.

Ain't that right Raenos?

Requiem
02-04-2013, 08:02 AM
Jimmy Smith got away with murder in the endzone at the end of the game. That being said, March Madness is boring.

DENVERDUI55
02-04-2013, 08:03 AM
I only remember one call go the 9ers way the running into the kicker.

Kaylore
02-04-2013, 08:09 AM
It was terrible. I think college sports will see in an increase in popularity over the next decade or so as more and more people shun $100-$1000 seats, $100 million contracts, and side shows like Ray Lewis, strikes, and what sure seems like crooked officiating.

With that being said one of the greatest sporting events is about to unfold. March Madness. It's hard to beat the pure competitive nature of College Basketball.

Ain't that right Raenos?

Alec Raenos rep. He IS Alec Raenos, Mage.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 08:11 AM
HOF players elevate the game when it mattered..
Players like manning, Champ and coaches like Fox panic.
Manning is the overrated QB.
He like Brett Favre will screw the team during crunch time.

We need players like Elway...

Love elway obviously. He's amazing. But watch the 97 Super Bowl again

Rascal
02-04-2013, 08:16 AM
I only remember one call go the 9ers way the running into the kicker.

Refs didn't call a blatant o-line holding penatly (guard or center) during the 49ers last drive.

bronco militia
02-04-2013, 08:23 AM
I was pissed last night, but now I don't care........


ZZZ...

Gutless Drunk
02-04-2013, 08:24 AM
Raven's offensive line had no holding penalties in the playoffs. That's right, they faced Dwight Freeny, Robert Mathias, Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Justin Smith & Aldon Smith without committing a holding penalty.
Greatest offensive line performance ever.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 08:43 AM
The officiating was terrible.

I would like Peyton to announce his retirement effective at the end of the 2013 season. Then maybe we'll get some of that sweet Ray Ray home cookin'.

Rohirrim
02-04-2013, 08:46 AM
Seemed pretty even to me, but then I hate both those teams and didn't really care one way or another.

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 08:47 AM
Raven's offensive line had no holding penalties in the playoffs. That's right, they faced Dwight Freeny, Robert Mathias, Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Justin Smith & Aldon Smith without committing a holding penalty.
Greatest offensive line performance ever.

this show how it's fixed..

2KBack
02-04-2013, 08:48 AM
Raven's offensive line had no holding penalties in the playoffs. That's right, they faced Dwight Freeny, Robert Mathias, Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, Justin Smith & Aldon Smith without committing a holding penalty.
Greatest offensive line performance ever.

This is the most telling stat in my mind. As we know, some level of holding occurs every play, so to not call it for 4 straight games against teams with great pass rushes is just sickening.

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 08:51 AM
just now i read that European soccer games are fixed..
I strongly believe that NFL is fixed..hopefully, someone will tell the truth in the near future.

BroncoBeavis
02-04-2013, 08:54 AM
The officiating was terrible.

I would like Peyton to announce his retirement effective at the end of the 2013 season. Then maybe we'll get some of that sweet Ray Ray home cookin'.

Bill Belichick would call a press conference the next day announcing Tom Brady's retirement.

Old Dude
02-04-2013, 09:04 AM
I don't know. I went back and watched some of the action at the line of scrimmage and I didn't see a lot of holding going on. Most of the time, Dumervil was simply being handled. Miller only rushed on about a third of the plays and he got close a few times, but you have to give Flacco credit for not getting phased.

Getting Yanda back was huge for the Ravens. I think their offensive line really did step it up and should get most of the credit for their success.That was especially important for a QB like Flacco who depends on the long ball.

It's almost impossible to win the SB without some luck. Sometimes, it comes in the form of an injury free year, or getting the right players back at the right time. They had that.

Sometimes you get really lucky with the draft and/or free agents. Their 3d round RB was a lot better than ours. But realistically, they were already a good team going into the season, having made it to the AFCCG the year before.

Sometimes it comes in the form of reduced competition, within the division and in the playoffs. Pittsburgh really faded this year and that helped them a bit, though I can't say the AFC North was worse than the abysmal AFC West. They had an easy first game against the Colts. They caught Denver at the right time, as well as the Pats.

And you certainly need some close calls to go your way on the field. They got those, in spades.And hearts and diamonds and clubs.

They were a good team that peaked at the right time and had an incredible amount of lopsided luck with the officials. So much and so often and at such critical times that it has a stink about it.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 09:08 AM
I'd really love to hear g0_broncos reasoning as to why the NFL would fix it for the Ravens. It makes no sense. And dont give me this ray lewis ****. The Ravens have one player with a top 25 jersey sale. This is hardly americas team. Theyve just gotten lucky with the calls

ColoradoDarin
02-04-2013, 09:16 AM
I don't think the officiating was all that bad, they swallowed their whistles the entire game. What I was surprised about was that Ravens #29 wasn't kicked out of the game for pushing an official during that big pileup.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 09:19 AM
I'd really love to hear g0_broncos reasoning as to why the NFL would fix it for the Ravens. It makes no sense. And dont give me this ray lewis ****. The Ravens have one player with a top 25 jersey sale. This is hardly americas team. Theyve just gotten lucky with the calls

The reasons why are pretty obvious. Don't even have to look that hard.

The Ravens were in freefall when Lewis announced. Then they went on an absolute tear.

Art dying this year. A legend in the league, even though he was a total douchebag when he left Cleveland the way he did.

The Harbowl.

With Eli not in the playoffs, the league couldn't have its Manning/Manning in New Orleans game they'd hoped for, so they went with the next-best thing. Retiring Ray Lewis, dead Art Modell, Harbowl. They can have Brady/Manning and Manning/Manning next year (and in New York!).

Not saying it WAS fixed, but there are plenty of reasons to fix it.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 09:27 AM
The reasons why are pretty obvious. Don't even have to look that hard.

The Ravens were in freefall when Lewis announced. Then they went on an absolute tear.

Art dying this year. A legend in the league, even though he was a total douchebag when he left Cleveland the way he did.

The Harbowl.

With Eli not in the playoffs, the league couldn't have its Manning/Manning in New Orleans game they'd hoped for, so they went with the next-best thing. Retiring Ray Lewis, dead Art Modell, Harbowl. They can have Brady/Manning and Manning/Manning next year (and in New York!).

Not saying it WAS fixed, but there are plenty of reasons to fix it.

Again, The NFL does not need storylines. It's ****ing teflon. Even with all these concussions, the NFL is beyond popular. It would never ever risk its credibility to get...Ray Lewis a ring? Who gives a **** about Ray Lewis? A dead Art Modell? You think 90 percent of the people watching last night knows who Art Modell is?

What's a more compelling storyline to you? The most popular player in the NFl goes down, has 4 neck surgeries, and miraculously comes back to the next season to win a super bowl for a new team.....or Ray Lewis retiring?

Its absurd. Yes, the Ravens seemed to get the better officiating, but that could easily be explained away by coincidence. Hanlon's Razor...never assume malice for something that can easily be explained away by stupidity.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2013, 09:35 AM
What's a more compelling storyline to you? The most popular player in the NFl goes down, has 4 neck surgeries, and miraculously comes back to the next season to win a super bowl for a new team.....or Ray Lewis retiring?

One made a deal with Willem Dafoe. The other didn't.

gunns
02-04-2013, 09:46 AM
And how about Cary Williams shoving the ref during that fight. Would have been a sure ejection for anyone else.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18djqrflmpr7ogif/original.gif

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 09:50 AM
Again, The NFL does not need storylines. It's ****ing teflon. Even with all these concussions, the NFL is beyond popular. It would never ever risk its credibility to get...Ray Lewis a ring? Who gives a **** about Ray Lewis? A dead Art Modell? You think 90 percent of the people watching last night knows who Art Modell is?

What's a more compelling storyline to you? The most popular player in the NFl goes down, has 4 neck surgeries, and miraculously comes back to the next season to win a super bowl for a new team.....or Ray Lewis retiring?

Its absurd. Yes, the Ravens seemed to get the better officiating, but that could easily be explained away by coincidence. Hanlon's Razor...never assume malice for something that can easily be explained away by stupidity.

If you think the league doesn't utilize storylines at every possible turn, I'd be really curious what game you're watching.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 09:54 AM
If you think the league doesn't utilize storylines at every possible turn, I'd be really curious what game you're watching.

Of course it uses storylines, they are always trying to make narratives, but they would never FIX games to promote one...especially one that isn't all that compelling to begin with.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 10:00 AM
Of course it uses storylines, they are always trying to make narratives, but they would never FIX games to promote one...especially one that isn't all that compelling to begin with.

Sure they wouldn't, Rog.

Meck77
02-04-2013, 10:07 AM
And how about Cary Williams shoving the ref during that fight. Would have been a sure ejection for anyone else.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18djqrflmpr7ogif/original.gif

Holy cow missed that. How the hell could that not be an ejection?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 10:12 AM
Holy cow missed that. How the hell could that not be an ejection?

Because he shoved the official in the chest rather than touch fingers, like Stokley (http://www.popscreen.com/v/6qxOI/Brandon-Stokley-Ejected-For-slapping-Broncos-vs-Eagles) did.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-04-2013, 10:13 AM
I would rather have a ref team that has been together all season, than putting a bunch of different ones from different ref teams together.

Mouth
02-04-2013, 10:25 AM
I'll agree that the refs swallowed their whistles most of the game, but I don't remember the 9ers committing many possible penalties that weren't called (maybe 2 or 3). The thing that bothers me are all the could-have-been penalties that weren't called. That is what doesn't pass the smell test for me. I'm not just talking superbowl either. All playoff long, almost none of the "maybe" penalties went against the ravens.

Drunk Monkey
02-04-2013, 10:28 AM
I don't think the officiating was all that bad, they swallowed their whistles the entire game. What I was surprised about was that Ravens #29 wasn't kicked out of the game for pushing an official during that big pileup.

I agree, over all the officiating wasn't to bad. I think people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to calling a game. I would rather see fewer penalties vs more in a game.

2KBack
02-04-2013, 10:36 AM
It's not about the number of penalties, it's about consistency. What constitutes a penalty seems to fluctuate from game to game, and when you get to the playoffs and Championship those kinds of calls/non calls are magnified.

NUB
02-04-2013, 10:43 AM
I just don't see how the flag was not thrown on the fade into the endzone. The play started at the five yard line, so anything into the endzone was past the 5-yard zone. Jimmy Smith was holding for two to three yards straight and the ref just stared it right down and did nothing.

Regardless, the 49ers should have ran it in; they had many attempts at it but just kept passing instead.

Also, #29 should have been tossed for shoving a ref.

Someone was being literally held on the fake punt safety. Again, right in front of the ref.


Oh well. The Superbowl was on its way to being one of the worst ever until the 49ers started making plays.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 10:43 AM
Sure they wouldn't, Rog.

When you come up with a reason as to why the NFL would risk credibility to serve Ray Lewis and Art Modell, then i'll listen. Because right now you're pointing at a few calls and creating a story around that while ignoring every other variable.

MagicHef
02-04-2013, 10:45 AM
I've heard a lot that the refs call fewer penalties in the playoffs than in the regular season. It was true this year, there were 6.3 penalties for 53.2 yards per team per game in the regular season, and only 5.0 penalties for 40.1 yards per team per game in the playoffs. However (don't read unless you want to be angry):

Denver was the only team to be penalized more in the post season than in the regular season. Not by a little bit either.

We had 3.8 more penalties for 36.7 more yards. The next highest was Cincinnati, who had 1.2 FEWER penalties for 2.6 FEWER yards.

On average, the other 11 teams had 1.8 fewer penalties for 18.6 fewer yards than they had in the regular season.

ludo21
02-04-2013, 10:48 AM
just 2 stand out to me and the Ravens got them both in their favor... just sayin... ;D

Cary Williams shove, wtf?

and Egregious hold by jimmy smith not called witha definite 'catchable' ball.... just wow

great game though

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 10:54 AM
I'd really love to hear g0_broncos reasoning as to why the NFL would fix it for the Ravens. It makes no sense. And dont give me this ray lewis ****. The Ravens have one player with a top 25 jersey sale. This is hardly americas team. Theyve just gotten lucky with the calls

Today..i read that European soccer games are fixed.
Based on your logic, it should not be fixed as it's already popular.
Professional sports are driven by betting and they have influence on how the games are played.

Quoydogs
02-04-2013, 10:55 AM
one more thing...champ will never win SB..He doesn't deserve it.plays like **** when it matters.

If you're not joking this should get you banned . I can't think of one player in the NFL that deserves it more. You sir are scum.

Archer81
02-04-2013, 10:55 AM
My thoughts are that the games are fixed.
I was blasted when i said it before..Once Lewis announced his retirement, refs made sure he wins the SB.
For instance..4TH AND 29...it was never converted..it was yard short.


4th and 29 was a regular season game. Before Lewis announced his retirement.

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Today..i read that European soccer games are fixed.
Based on your logic, it should not be fixed as it's already popular.
Professional sports are driven by betting and they have influence on how the games are played.

I'm not arguing if gambling fixed anything, though i'd find that hard to believe anyway. Not to mention, even if the niners score at the end, it wouldn't have changed bets in Vegas. I'm arguing the NFL isnt fixing **** for the sake of a storyline.

Drunk Monkey
02-04-2013, 11:11 AM
I think all the talk about the "Fix" is complete and total BS. I can't think of one team Rodger would rather have in the SB other then Denver..... maybe the Pats. The NFC perennial contender would shuffle between the Packers, Cowboys, and Bears. I agree with Lang, there is no reason to fix the NFL, it is going to smoothly as is.

Smiling Assassin27
02-04-2013, 11:15 AM
Hell, Rod Smith got ejected for ACCIDENTALLY smacking a ref in a scrum. This is pure bullcrap.

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 11:16 AM
I think all the talk about the "Fix" is complete and total BS. I can't think of one team Rodger would rather have in the SB other then Denver..... maybe the Pats. The NFC perennial contender would shuffle between the Packers, Cowboys, and Bears. I agree with Lang, there is no reason to fix the NFL, it is going to smoothly as is.

It's not BS...See how matches were fixed in European soccer.
Soccer is more popular than NFL and yet they fix games.
As i said, betting dictates the sports world.

BroncosfanGuy
02-04-2013, 11:46 AM
not sure what thread this should be in but 0 holding calls against Baltimore all postseason.

Drunk Monkey
02-04-2013, 12:03 PM
It's not BS...See how matches were fixed in European soccer.
Soccer is more popular than NFL and yet they fix games.
As i said, betting dictates the sports world.

which soccer games were fixed?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 12:08 PM
When you come up with a reason as to why the NFL would risk credibility to serve Ray Lewis and Art Modell, then i'll listen. Because right now you're pointing at a few calls and creating a story around that while ignoring every other variable.

When you come up with a reason they wouldn't , I'll start listening.

BroncosfanGuy
02-04-2013, 12:08 PM
which soccer games were fixed?

up to 680 including World Cup qualifiers and Euro Championship qualifiers
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/match-fixing-probe-found-380-103613303--sow.html

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 12:08 PM
I think all the talk about the "Fix" is complete and total BS. I can't think of one team Rodger would rather have in the SB other then Denver..... maybe the Pats. The NFC perennial contender would shuffle between the Packers, Cowboys, and Bears. I agree with Lang, there is no reason to fix the NFL, it is going to smoothly as is.

You don't think either of the New York teams would be the choice?

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 12:13 PM
When you come up with a reason they wouldn't , I'll start listening.

Here's the main one:

The NFL is the most popular form of entertainment in America. It's not close. All their games rate incredibly well, and the super bowl is a holiday regardless of who is in it. Hell, even markets dont matter to the NFL, Green Bay does just fine and its a tiny town.

So why would the NFL EVER EVER risk credibility to push a storyline that would do absolutely nothing in regards to the popularity of the sport? And, if they did do such things (which would be asinine), why would pushing a Ray Lewis story be the way to go? You really think that was the best storyline of all possible storylines?

How does that make ANY sense to you? This is hardly some fledgling league looking for publicity stunts.

Drunk Monkey
02-04-2013, 12:15 PM
You don't think either of the New York teams would be the choice?

Yes to the Giants, I forgot about them. Jets, not so much.

oubronco
02-04-2013, 12:17 PM
There were 2 holding non calls on the 9ers 4th down play according to Mangini and he showed them in detail

gunns
02-04-2013, 12:32 PM
If there is no fix in then instead of coming out and making fools of themselves by trying to justify these calls or non calls they need to have someone, that is not affliated with the referees, look at them. Then the NFL needs to lay down the law, the refs got what they wanted in the strike, better do better than this to remain in the NFL. I don't believe the refs decisions were the reason that the Broncos lost (they did quite well by themselves) or the 49ers but you have to wonder what might have been.

Old Dude
02-04-2013, 12:33 PM
After reflection, I don't think the SB was "fixed," but if it was, why does anyone assume it had to be the league that did it? Refs go on strike, lose money, some gambler gets to one or more of them and then there's a huge payoff.

Most of the biggest scandals in sports history circumvented whatever league authority was in place.

2KBack
02-04-2013, 12:38 PM
After reflection, I don't think the SB was "fixed," but if it was, why does anyone assume it had to be the league that did it? Refs go on strike, lose money, some gambler gets to one or more of them and then there's a huge payoff.

Most of the biggest scandals in sports history circumvented whatever league authority was in place.

This is what I keep thinking. It doesn't have to be the NFL, it only has to be the Refs.

Drunk Monkey
02-04-2013, 12:45 PM
up to 680 including World Cup qualifiers and Euro Championship qualifiers
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/match-fixing-probe-found-380-103613303--sow.html

It will be interesting to see how that shakes out. If confirmed it will destroy Soccer.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 12:46 PM
If there is no fix in then instead of coming out and making fools of themselves by trying to justify these calls or non calls they need to have someone, that is not affliated with the referees, look at them. Then the NFL needs to lay down the law, the refs got what they wanted in the strike, better do better than this to remain in the NFL. I don't believe the refs decisions were the reason that the Broncos lost (they did quite well by themselves) or the 49ers but you have to wonder what might have been.

I dont really know what you want from them, its human error. That will never change. My guess is the NFL is fine with the refs performance because it wont affect ratings or the bottom line, but something id really consider is making PI reviewable.

Old Dude
02-04-2013, 12:56 PM
...something id really consider is making PI reviewable.

Makes sense to me. Let's say you hit a receiver before the ball gets there. In fact, let's say you yank down his left arm while the ball's still about a yard way. Let's say the ball bounces off his shoulder into the hands of another defender, who takes it in for a TD. Not only do you stop a drive. You get 7 points.

One of the biggest game & momentum changers in football.

All we have now is an announcer saying that a certain team "got away with a little something there."

Later, it's excused, because, "gee whiz" that happened fast. And it was cold outside, too.

mwill07
02-04-2013, 01:01 PM
Much like i'm not at all concerned about a Chief being in the HoF while worthy Broncos are sitting on the outside looking in, I'm not concerned about how the 49ers got screwed while knowing the Broncos were screwed much, much worse.

BroncosfanGuy
02-04-2013, 01:53 PM
It will be interesting to see how that shakes out. If confirmed it will destroy Soccer.

i doubt it

BroncosfanGuy
02-04-2013, 01:57 PM
by the way, Bill Vinovich was the alternate referee for yesterday's game (emphasis added).

http://www.pressboxonline.com/blog.cfm?ID=5714

BOGER TO REF: Perhaps the worst-kept secret in the world of football officiating was made official with the announcement that nine-year NFL official Jerome Boger will referee the Super Bowl.
Boger has not worked a game involving the Ravens since the fifth game of the 2010 season, a 31-17 home win against the Denver Broncos.
Speaking of Denver, the referee at the Ravens' double-overtime Divisional Round win against the Broncos, Bill Vinovich, is the Super Bowl alternate.

TDmvp
02-04-2013, 02:02 PM
not sure what thread this should be in but 0 holding calls against Baltimore all postseason.



No way ????????? ... That's just unreal.

Beantown Bronco
02-04-2013, 02:23 PM
There were 2 holding non calls on the 9ers 4th down play according to Mangini and he showed them in detail

The league is in full damage control mode right now.

0 holding calls made against the Ravens OLine in the entire postseason. That's all I need to know.

ZONA
02-04-2013, 02:25 PM
I thought maybe a few more calls went the Ravens way but wouldn't go as far as saying it was a badly officiated game.

WolfpackGuy
02-04-2013, 02:27 PM
The Super Bowl was officiated better than the Broncos-Ravens playoff game, but that really isn't saying a damn thing.

0 holding calls on a patchwork offensive line that hadn't played together until the Wild Card round?

That is un-fuggin-real and total garbage!

Rocket 7
02-04-2013, 03:29 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000135279/Can-t-Miss-Play-Jacoby-Jones-sets-record-with-kickoff-return


I don't know the number but watch the 49er's player at about the 25 yard line. He gets mugged by two Ravens on the kickoff return.

oubronco
02-04-2013, 04:00 PM
How #29 didn't get thrown out is really suspicious

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1425569/refshove.gif

KipCorrington25
02-04-2013, 04:01 PM
That 29 pushing the ref was shown on the initial replay in plain sight but did the annoucers even mention it? It seemed like they showed it before they realized what happened and then didn't show or mention it again... why? The cynic would say to keep it under wraps and not bring attention to the cover up.

DomCasual
02-04-2013, 04:13 PM
Mike Pereira said it was a good call (https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/298274055365226499).

Is it just me, or does Pereira remind you a little of this guy?
http://polaroidjournal.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/bagdhad-bob1.jpg

oubronco
02-04-2013, 04:18 PM
The WR in the slot on the other side was held worse and Mangini showed it on his telliprompterscreen thing

TonyR
02-04-2013, 04:32 PM
There were 2 holding non calls on the 9ers 4th down play according to Mangini and he showed them in detail

Where did you see this? ESPN?

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 04:45 PM
How #29 didn't get thrown out is really suspicious

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1425569/refshove.gif

Hilarious!

people still think it's not fixed..

jerseyboiler120
02-04-2013, 04:53 PM
This postseason was fixed beyond all belief. Anyone who honestly believes the murderering thugs played the best and won it on merit please give me a call I have some great swampland in florida to sell you.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 05:10 PM
Yes to the Giants, I forgot about them. Jets, not so much.

Why?

Biggest media market in the country. If they could have a Jets/Giants super bowl next year IN New York, Goodell's cock would explode in happiness.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2013, 05:12 PM
Here's the main one:

The NFL is the most popular form of entertainment in America. It's not close. All their games rate incredibly well, and the super bowl is a holiday regardless of who is in it. Hell, even markets dont matter to the NFL, Green Bay does just fine and its a tiny town.

So why would the NFL EVER EVER risk credibility to push a storyline that would do absolutely nothing in regards to the popularity of the sport? And, if they did do such things (which would be asinine), why would pushing a Ray Lewis story be the way to go? You really think that was the best storyline of all possible storylines?

How does that make ANY sense to you? This is hardly some fledgling league looking for publicity stunts.

That's not a very good argument.

You think the NFL risks ANYTHING by pushing a storyline? Get a job, man.

You get a redemption story, which the league LOVES LOVES LOVES LOVES LOVES, on top of the "we did it for Mr. Modell!" bull****, on top of the Flaccid reinvention, on top of the Harbowl... and it's meaningless?

The Super Bowl yesterday was the most-watched in history. Prolly just for the commercials, though. Hilarious!

extralife
02-04-2013, 05:19 PM
We need players like Elway...

The Elway who lost three super bowls? The one who put up 7 points against the Bills in the 1991 AFC Championship game? Or the one with TD in the backfield?

You can't win them all, but idiots are happy to buy into post hoc narratives.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-04-2013, 05:48 PM
That's not a very good argument.

You think the NFL risks ANYTHING by pushing a storyline? Get a job, man.

You get a redemption story, which the league LOVES LOVES LOVES LOVES LOVES, on top of the "we did it for Mr. Modell!" bull****, on top of the Flaccid reinvention, on top of the Harbowl... and it's meaningless?

The Super Bowl yesterday was the most-watched in history. Prolly just for the commercials, though. Hilarious!

This is insane. First off, pending on which report you read, your last point isn't exactly true.

((((From AP: Updated at 2:11 p.m.: Nielsen estimated Monday afternoon that 108.4 million total viewers watched this year's game, which makes it the third-most watched program ever, behind the 2010 and 2011 Super Bowls.]

The Green Bay Packers' win over the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2011 drew a 47.9 rating; the New York Giants' victory over the New England Patriots in 2012 got a 48.1 rating.)))

Secondly, the numbers are more or less on par with past years.

Thirdly, you are INSANE if the NFL would risk credibility to push an ART MODELL storyline. Are you ****ing out of your mind? You think anyone gives a **** about Art Modell? Joe Flacco? They don't even care about Ray Lewis. If the league wanted its most popular players in the Super Bowl, somehow the Broncos and Redskins would have gotten in.

Again, the NFL is KING in america. It does not need to FIX ITS GAMES for a storyline.

Youre crazy.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-05-2013, 07:18 AM
This is insane. First off, pending on which report you read, your last point isn't exactly true.

((((From AP: Updated at 2:11 p.m.: Nielsen estimated Monday afternoon that 108.4 million total viewers watched this year's game, which makes it the third-most watched program ever, behind the 2010 and 2011 Super Bowls.]

The Green Bay Packers' win over the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2011 drew a 47.9 rating; the New York Giants' victory over the New England Patriots in 2012 got a 48.1 rating.)))

Secondly, the numbers are more or less on par with past years.

Thirdly, you are INSANE if the NFL would risk credibility to push an ART MODELL storyline. Are you ****ing out of your mind? You think anyone gives a **** about Art Modell? Joe Flacco? They don't even care about Ray Lewis. If the league wanted its most popular players in the Super Bowl, somehow the Broncos and Redskins would have gotten in.

Again, the NFL is KING in america. It does not need to FIX ITS GAMES for a storyline.

Youre crazy.

You're right. It's not totally absurd that a **** matchup between Baltimore and San Fran is the third-most watched Super Bowl, behind matchups with premiere teams like New England, New York, Green Bay and Pittsburgh. TOTALLY makes sense that this **** matchup would be right behind those two games, since nobody cares at all about matchups.

I don't think the league gives a flying **** about "giving the people" a Modell storyline. I think the league wanted a Modell storyline. Period.

The league can have its two most popular players next year. There is no option for the Ray Lewis Redemption Tour next season, is there?

Sorry kiddo. There are plenty of reasons that a lot of people can see why the league MIGHT fix some games here and there, or increase some odds here and there with officiating, to get the Ravens into the big chair. I'm not saying it was fixed, I'm saying I can see the reasons why.

You can't, and that's your deal. By all means, keep those eyes firmly closed.

The NFL is so popular, A) nobody is going to care if they did push a storyline, and B) even if they did, even if it was proven that some games were fixed, the NFL's popularity wouldn't be touched.

ScottXray
02-05-2013, 08:11 AM
I dont really know what you want from them, its human error. That will never change. My guess is the NFL is fine with the refs performance because it wont affect ratings or the bottom line, but something id really consider is making PI reviewable.

THIS! I'd like to see any turnover/TD reviewed, with the review official obligated and empowered to call a PI penalty on either team, if the replay shows that the PI was clear and effectively caused the TD to happen. I would not review holding penalties, because, as we all know, holding happens on every play Also, the Review offical should be off the field and have authority over the field crew. The on the field head ref will enforce what the replay official calls.

Replay tech is good enough that bad calls or non calls should be corrected before the games result is affected. The officials don't want their purview overturned by tech but frankly the game is too fast for them to get it right all the time, and they use that excuse too often to excuse poor officiating.

TonyR
02-05-2013, 08:26 AM
...if the replay shows that the PI was clear...

Yup, PI is such a huge call that they really need to consider opening it up to replay. I say "huge call" because it can result in such a big change in yardage and outcome. For example, in this case (Sunday's game) if they make the correct call San Fran probably wins the Super Bowl instead of Baltimore.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 09:50 AM
You're right. It's not totally absurd that a **** matchup between Baltimore and San Fran is the third-most watched Super Bowl, behind matchups with premiere teams like New England, New York, Green Bay and Pittsburgh. TOTALLY makes sense that this **** matchup would be right behind those two games, since nobody cares at all about matchups.

I don't think the league gives a flying **** about "giving the people" a Modell storyline. I think the league wanted a Modell storyline. Period.

The league can have its two most popular players next year. There is no option for the Ray Lewis Redemption Tour next season, is there?

Sorry kiddo. There are plenty of reasons that a lot of people can see why the league MIGHT fix some games here and there, or increase some odds here and there with officiating, to get the Ravens into the big chair. I'm not saying it was fixed, I'm saying I can see the reasons why.

You can't, and that's your deal. By all means, keep those eyes firmly closed.

The NFL is so popular, A) nobody is going to care if they did push a storyline, and B) even if they did, even if it was proven that some games were fixed, the NFL's popularity wouldn't be touched.

You're a conspiracy theorist arent you?

This is not "fixing a game here and there" Youre claiming the NFL FIXED the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS for a storyline when the NFL does not need to do that. Why would the NFL ever ever ever risk its credibility? In the era of wikileaks and whatnot, its hard to keep that kind of **** under wraps.

Picture this headline: NFL FIXES 2013 PLAYOFFS AS ART MODELL TRIBUTE you REALLY think people wouldnt jump ship? And youd, as a fan, would think "oh that seems worth it to them, what a moment that was"

You also realize Ray Lewis was not the most popular player in the league, right? In a poll last year, the top was Polamalu (63 percent approval), followed by...Drew Brees and Charles Woodson (62 percent), Peyton Manning (59 percent), Aaron Rodgers and Rob Gronkowski (58 percent), and Robert Griffin III, Brian Urlacher and Donald Driver (57 percent).

Sorry, "kiddo." My eyes are wide open because I'm a rational human being. If NFL games are fixed, its a gambling thing...not because of storylines which can be created out of thin air, for a sport people will watch anyway.

This is the sword you want to fall on? Really?

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 10:14 AM
and Rob Gronkowski (58 percent)

Wow, that one's shocking. Never knew the LGBT'ers made up so much of the NFL fanbase. :)

Beantown Bronco
02-05-2013, 10:18 AM
You also realize Ray Lewis was not the most popular player in the league, right? In a poll last year, the top was Polamalu (63 percent approval), followed by...Drew Brees and Charles Woodson (62 percent), Peyton Manning (59 percent), Aaron Rodgers and Rob Gronkowski (58 percent), and Robert Griffin III, Brian Urlacher and Donald Driver (57 percent).

And how many of those guys have NOT be in a recent SB? I count one and he's a rookie.

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
And how many of those guys have NOT be in a recent SB? I count one and he's a rookie.

That's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Players who win tend to become popular.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-05-2013, 11:00 AM
You're a conspiracy theorist arent you?

This is not "fixing a game here and there" Youre claiming the NFL FIXED the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS for a storyline when the NFL does not need to do that. Why would the NFL ever ever ever risk its credibility? In the era of wikileaks and whatnot, its hard to keep that kind of **** under wraps.

Picture this headline: NFL FIXES 2013 PLAYOFFS AS ART MODELL TRIBUTE you REALLY think people wouldnt jump ship? And youd, as a fan, would think "oh that seems worth it to them, what a moment that was"

You also realize Ray Lewis was not the most popular player in the league, right? In a poll last year, the top was Polamalu (63 percent approval), followed by...Drew Brees and Charles Woodson (62 percent), Peyton Manning (59 percent), Aaron Rodgers and Rob Gronkowski (58 percent), and Robert Griffin III, Brian Urlacher and Donald Driver (57 percent).

Sorry, "kiddo." My eyes are wide open because I'm a rational human being. If NFL games are fixed, its a gambling thing...not because of storylines which can be created out of thin air, for a sport people will watch anyway.

This is the sword you want to fall on? Really?

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't think the games were fixed. Either that, or you have trouble with reading comprehension.

Is that the issue? Inability to understand the words written right in front of your face?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-05-2013, 11:02 AM
You also realize Ray Lewis was not the most popular player in the league, right? In a poll last year, the top was Polamalu (63 percent approval), followed by...Drew Brees and Charles Woodson (62 percent), Peyton Manning (59 percent), Aaron Rodgers and Rob Gronkowski (58 percent), and Robert Griffin III, Brian Urlacher and Donald Driver (57 percent).



Uh, cool.

Ray Lewis was also featured in the biggest-selling product the league puts out every year: Madden 13. He wasn't the cover boy, but the opening sequences are all focused on a shadowed character, Ray Ray's voice talking about dedication and focus and hard work and blah blah blah blah blah... the camera slowly pans in to show... Ray, at his locker...

But sure. he's not popular enough for the league to focus on him.

Your ideas are really kewl.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 11:12 AM
Uh, cool.

Ray Lewis was also featured in the biggest-selling product the league puts out every year: Madden 13. He wasn't the cover boy, but the opening sequences are all focused on a shadowed character, Ray Ray's voice talking about dedication and focus and hard work and blah blah blah blah blah... the camera slowly pans in to show... Ray, at his locker...

But sure. he's not popular enough for the league to focus on him.

Your ideas are really kewl.

Keep falling on your dumb sword about this dumber topic and insulting my intelligence. It makes you look really smart.

Type Ray Lewis into Google right now and youll see the SECOND subject to come up in the auto is "ray lewis murders." Yeah, this whole thing is fixed so the NFL can push a storyline. God, if the American public thinks like you, i weap for it.

You are one of those people who really hates to admit they are wrong. But keep arguing this stupid point.

TonyR
02-05-2013, 11:22 AM
Some focused on that singular picture of the unreachable ball and attempted to contend that there should be no penalty because, after all, it was an uncatchable pass. This amused Hall of Fame Raiders coach John Madden, who saw the game larger than life on his multi-screen, mega-sized, Maddenplex in Pleasanton, Calif.

"I heard somebody said it was an uncatchable ball," Madden said Monday. "That's a bunch of baloney. Of course if the receiver is held he cannot get to the ball, so it appears uncatchable." http://sports.yahoo.com/news/super-bowl-officials-too-permissive-213004590--nfl.html

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 11:29 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/super-bowl-officials-too-permissive-213004590--nfl.html

It did seem obvious to me too...it wsnt a perfectly thrown ball, but it could have been caught

go_broncos
02-05-2013, 11:31 AM
Keep falling on your dumb sword about this dumber topic and insulting my intelligence. It makes you look really smart.

Type Ray Lewis into Google right now and youll see the SECOND subject to come up in the auto is "ray lewis murders." Yeah, this whole thing is fixed so the NFL can push a storyline. God, if the American public thinks like you, i weap for it.

You are one of those people who really hates to admit they are wrong. But keep arguing this stupid point.

NFL is fixed..it is done by ref's.
I don't know what world you live in.
People were saying the same thing about soccer..look how many games were fixed.
Don't worry..you will know the truth in near future.
Hopefully, you will not be shocked at that time.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 11:36 AM
NFL is fixed..it is done by ref's.
I don't know what world you live in.
People were saying the same thing about soccer..look how many games were fixed.
Don't worry..you will know the truth in near future.
Hopefully, you will not be shocked at that time.

Fixed for who exactly? NFL? The city of Baltimore? The state of Maryland? Vegas? If it was fixed you would've had Eli vs Peyton. You would have the cash cow that are the cowboys making it. Vegas fixes this game no way do you see a safety happen in it. At the start of this year nobody was thinking, lets put the ravens in the superbowl cause it will benefit the NFL the most. Smh at the stupidity in this world. Trying to compare soccer??

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 11:53 AM
NFL is fixed..it is done by ref's.
I don't know what world you live in.
People were saying the same thing about soccer..look how many games were fixed.
Don't worry..you will know the truth in near future.
Hopefully, you will not be shocked at that time.

I'm not denying that sports games might be fixed. Im not saying its DEFINITE either, but i give you the possibility.

What I AM saying is the NFL doesnt fix its games for storylines.

WolfpackGuy
02-05-2013, 11:54 AM
The Niners' last gasp pass only landed a yard or so out of bounds.

Had Crabtree not been impeded, he probably would've made the catch easily.

Can't blame the Ratbirds for continuing to do what they had been getting away with all postseason.

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 11:58 AM
I'm obviously an outlier in not minding the no-call. Close to the line of scrimmage, very quick and desperate toss to a spot for a jump ball.

Seeing the actual hold in real time would be more difficult than it seems from slow-mo replay. I'd much rather a ref hold onto a flag until he's 100% sure he saw a penalty. The alternative in such a bang-bang situation is for him to throw a flag on a guess. And just as many (if not more) bad things happen when refs start penalizing through guesswork.

Question for the travesty-of-justice'ers. If it was just a chuck at 5 yards with zero holding, would you still think it should've been called?

For me, if your whole game came down to relying on this call on 4th down and goal in order to win you a Super Bowl, you can't claim you deserved to win. Especially after catching a break or three yourself.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 12:01 PM
I'm obviously an outlier in not minding the no-call. Close to the line of scrimmage, very quick and desperate toss to a spot for a jump ball.

Seeing the actual hold in real time would be more difficult than it seems from slow-mo replay. I'd much rather a ref hold onto a flag until he's 100% sure he saw a penalty. The alternative in such a bang-bang situation is for him to throw a flag on a guess. And just as many (if not more) bad things happen when refs start penalizing through guesswork.

Question for the travesty-of-justice'ers. If it was just a chuck at 5 yards with zero holding, would you still think it should've been called?

For me, if your whole game came down to relying on this call on 4th down and goal in order to win you a Super Bowl, you can't claim you deserved to win. Especially after catching a break or three yourself.

I dont disagree with you, but i do hate the "deserve to win" cliche. I can't blame the refs for swallowing their whistles there and letting them play (they had been letting them play like that all game), but i also understand it being a bitter pill to swallow for niners fans. If going by the rules, that's defensive holding. But i get why it wasnt called.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 12:12 PM
I actually liked the no call. It meant consistency throughout the game that they swallowed flags. A play like that is also designed to draw a flag. Almost like they call the play assuming they can get a flag. the refs all game kept the flags off the field at least making it consistent.

TonyR
02-05-2013, 12:17 PM
^ My issue is that Crabtree was grabbed with two hands. One hand clearly had a handful of jersey. How often do you see a DB get away with grabbing the jersey like that? Meanwhile, the Broncos had 3 PI calls against them vs. the Ravens that were lesser violations.

The only decent argument I've heard is that Crabtree was also guilty of pushing off, so it could have been offsetting PI. But in that case the flag still should have been thrown and the penalties offset, giving the Niners another chance.

Durango
02-05-2013, 12:25 PM
It was terrible. I think college sports will see in an increase in popularity over the next decade or so as more and more people shun $100-$1000 seats, $100 million contracts, and side shows like Ray Lewis, strikes, and what sure seems like crooked officiating.

With that being said one of the greatest sporting events is about to unfold. March Madness. It's hard to beat the pure competitive nature of College Basketball.

Ain't that right Raenos?\

I agree, and not just because of that ridiculous non-call in the EZ that should've given the 49ers a first down at the 2 1/2.

The problem isn't that it was consistently bad, it's that it was completely inconsistent altogether.

A questionable PI here, no holding calls when both teams had jerseys stretched out so far I'm surprised they didn't just tear apart.

I understand the premise that the audience wants the refs to let them play when it reaches this level of the play-offs. Problem is, no-one seemed to respect the rules in this game, and the refs let it happen.

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 01:28 PM
^ My issue is that Crabtree was grabbed with two hands. One hand clearly had a handful of jersey. How often do you see a DB get away with grabbing the jersey like that? Meanwhile, the Broncos had 3 PI calls against them vs. the Ravens that were lesser violations.

He did, but it was during the typical 5-yard contact. It was close to the body, and at full speed was literally a fraction of a second. I think that kind of stuff near the line gets a pass all the time in the NFL.

You're right that those calls against us were terrible, but to me, that only enhances my point. I'd much rather have this standard for PI/D-holding than the one we witnessed a few weeks ago.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 01:47 PM
He did, but it was during the typical 5-yard contact. It was close to the body, and at full speed was literally a fraction of a second. I think that kind of stuff near the line gets a pass all the time in the NFL.

You're right that those calls against us were terrible, but to me, that only enhances my point. I'd much rather have this standard for PI/D-holding than the one we witnessed a few weeks ago.

Wasnt it while the ball was in the air though?

LetsGoBroncos
02-05-2013, 02:07 PM
Here is a simple question. Which was worse, the PI called on Tony Carter early in the game that had the ref not thrown a flag we would have been up 7-0 and had the ball at midfield early, or the one on Crabtree at the end? One drew a flag and one didn't. I'm arguing with Peter King and Eric Davis on twitter right now about it.

Boltjolt
02-05-2013, 02:11 PM
When 49er fans know a little of how we feel with that last non PI call in the end zone on Williams or whoever it was mugging Crabtree.. Would have won the game for them had he not been held...

Uncatchable ball anyways. It landed out of bounds so it wouldnt have won the game for them but a penalty would have put them at the 1.

Just some bad playcalling by SF. 3 passes to Crabtree? Not one read option when they ran for 186 yards on them.
Anyways im not convinced it was a penalty. Glad they let the players play more. I get tired of seeing piddley PI calls all year long.

go_broncos
02-05-2013, 02:11 PM
It's frustrating to see that ref's are deciding the result..Shame on NFL

TonyR
02-05-2013, 02:15 PM
He did, but it was during the typical 5-yard contact.

Go to the pics in this link. He had a hand full of jersey well into the end zone. Since the play was run from outside the 5 yard line that is well beyond 5 yards.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-and-goal-pass-interference-super-bowl-47-video/

But, this article makes a case for either offsetting penalties or no call.

TonyR
02-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Uncatchable ball anyways.

Not remotely "uncatchable".

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 02:17 PM
Wasnt it while the ball was in the air though?

It was close. But it was far too close to expect that a ref could simultaneously determine the release of the ball and be watching close enough to determine holding or PI at the same time.

But I'm not a fan of the idea that a receiver should get a free pass off the line just because the QB decides to loft a jump ball right at the snap. How exactly are you supposed to defend that?

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 02:25 PM
Go to the pics in this link. He had a hand full of jersey well into the end zone. Since the play was run from outside the 5 yard line that is well beyond 5 yards.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-and-goal-pass-interference-super-bowl-47-video/

But, this article makes a case for either offsetting penalties or no call.

It's maybe a yard beyond 5. But refs give that kind of cushion all day every day. And I'm agreeing that if you look at a still capture, you can see holding. But there's a big difference between seeing technical holding by replay screengrab and expecting a ref to call that in real time. Any time I see that play in real time I think to myself, "No way I'd throw that flag"

And I literally couldn't give two ****s who won that game.

All I'm saying is that if we expect refs to start catching that kind of holding, expect 3 times as many holding calls every game. I'd rather they just miss one every now and again. That play didn't deserve to score, and probably wouldn't have anyway.

Boltjolt
02-05-2013, 02:27 PM
Not remotely "uncatchable".

If he does catch it, he is easily out of bounds.

Rabb
02-05-2013, 02:28 PM
If he does catch it, he is easily out of bounds.

Well, then it's holding

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 02:29 PM
Go to the pics in this link. He had a hand full of jersey well into the end zone. Since the play was run from outside the 5 yard line that is well beyond 5 yards.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-and-goal-pass-interference-super-bowl-47-video/

But, this article makes a case for either offsetting penalties or no call.

2 things I get from this link. 1 look at Vernon Davis open over the middle because of the blitz. Experience throws to that option. One on one. 2. Look at crabtrees hands. His left hand throws the defenders head. He's on the face mask pushing off his head the entire time. Other hand is contacting defender also. When you watch it in slow motion you can see the defenders head get pushed and helmet turns almost halfway around. That left hand of Crabtree is pushing off the helmet the entire time. You can see jimmy smith arm go up to the refs when hes on the ground as if to say did you see his hand push my helmet backwards

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-05-2013, 02:30 PM
Keep falling on your dumb sword about this dumber topic and insulting my intelligence. It makes you look really smart.

Type Ray Lewis into Google right now and youll see the SECOND subject to come up in the auto is "ray lewis murders." Yeah, this whole thing is fixed so the NFL can push a storyline. God, if the American public thinks like you, i weap for it.

You are one of those people who really hates to admit they are wrong. But keep arguing this stupid point.

Falling on my sword? WTF are you talking about Junior? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, it's "weep." Weap isn't a word. Unless you're a "moran."

Boltjolt
02-05-2013, 02:30 PM
It's maybe a yard beyond 5. But refs give that kind of cushion all day every day. And I'm agreeing that if you look at a still capture, you can see holding. But there's a big difference between seeing technical holding by replay screengrab and expecting a ref to call that in real time. Any time I see that play in real time I think to myself, "No way I'd throw that flag"

And I literally couldn't give two ****s who won that game.

All I'm saying is that if we expect refs to start catching that kind of holding, expect 3 times as many holding calls every game. I'd rather they just miss one every now and again. That play didn't deserve to score, and probably wouldn't have anyway.

Exactly. Not sure why this is even a topic here. Seems you guys just like to trash the refs all the time like your team is their main target. Everyone has bad calls go against them. We have had our share.

Boltjolt
02-05-2013, 02:33 PM
Well, then it's holding

Ive seen the guys on NFL Network talk about it a lot. It is what it is. Could go either way and i didnt think right away it was holding. The ball was in the air and according to those pics with the rules someone posted, those dont apply.

SF just called some bad plays there.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Ive seen the guys on NFL Network talk about it a lot. It is what it is. Could go either way and i didnt think right away it was holding. The ball was in the air and according to those pics with the rules someone posted, those dont apply.

SF just called some bad plays there.

Yes they did. That's what they(niner fans) should be whining about. It was bad redzone execution. Not just that sequence but the entire game down there.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 02:39 PM
Ive seen the guys on NFL Network talk about it a lot. It is what it is. Could go either way and i didnt think right away it was holding. The ball was in the air and according to those pics with the rules someone posted, those dont apply.

SF just called some bad plays there.

Agreed. I was surprised by pretty much all of the calls in that sequence. Why Kaep was ever under center was odd.

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 02:42 PM
Exactly. Not sure why this is even a topic here. Seems you guys just like to trash the refs all the time like your team is their main target. Everyone has bad calls go against them. We have had our share.

Bull****. Ed Hochuli is infallible. Basically he's the Pope of NFL Officiating.

oubronco
02-05-2013, 03:50 PM
Go to the pics in this link. He had a hand full of jersey well into the end zone. Since the play was run from outside the 5 yard line that is well beyond 5 yards.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-and-goal-pass-interference-super-bowl-47-video/

But, this article makes a case for either offsetting penalties or no call.

Go to the video and watch the second WR from the top he gets MUGGED!!

enjolras
02-05-2013, 04:30 PM
This is just making me bitter about the god-awful call against Carter in our game.

“Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.”

Section E is the really relevant one here. Carter had inside position and clearly was playing the ball. He had every right to run towards the sideline and he did. There isn't anything you can construe out of this rule to turn that into pass interference.

Stupid f*****A**asdasdfkjhadsflkjasd*ing refs.

enjolras
02-05-2013, 04:33 PM
Go to the video and watch the second WR from the top he gets MUGGED!!

Ya.. the analysis on that page is awful. Crabtree didn't initiate contact, Smith did. It doesn't define initiating contact as being outside of 5 yards. The defender initiated contact on the jam (that's fine). He stayed engaged and Crabtree attempted to fight him off.. which he's allowed to do at that point.

Smith committed both defensive holding AND interference on the play. He never even attempted to play the ball.

The only thing I can guess is that the ruled the ball uncatchable. But that's stupid. Crabtree has the hops to go get that ball.

TonyR
02-05-2013, 04:35 PM
Look at crabtrees hands. His left hand throws the defenders head. He's on the face mask pushing off his head the entire time. Other hand is contacting defender also. When you watch it in slow motion you can see the defenders head get pushed and helmet turns almost halfway around. That left hand of Crabtree is pushing off the helmet the entire time. You can see jimmy smith arm go up to the refs when hes on the ground as if to say did you see his hand push my helmet backwards

I would argue that Crabtree pushed off as a reaction to getting mugged by the defender. The defender cut him off and grabbed him so the reaction would be to push off. Regardless, the defender is guilty of PI. If Crabtree is as well the result should be offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 04:50 PM
I would argue that Crabtree pushed off as a reaction to getting mugged by the defender. The defender cut him off and grabbed him so the reaction would be to push off. Regardless, the defender is guilty of PI. If Crabtree is as well the result should be offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.

So if you're actively engaged with a receiver and the QB hastily wings a duck somewhere in your vicinity, it should be an automatic PI?

Seems to me this is a recipe to end press coverage completely. You can't hit a guy and disengage faster than a QB can chuck a football straight up in the air.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 04:52 PM
I would argue that Crabtree pushed off as a reaction to getting mugged by the defender. The defender cut him off and grabbed him so the reaction would be to push off. Regardless, the defender is guilty of PI. If Crabtree is as well the result should be offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.

Could be why it's a no call. Offsetting penalties like that don't happen too often. Usually goes one way or the other, or a no call. I agree that there is something there, I just feel they kept it consistent to the flow of the officiating of the game. Which was Swallowing flags.

Had they scored I still believe ravens wouldve won. They've shown multiple times throughout the playoffs they only need seconds to do it. Would've been fun to watch.

TonyR
02-05-2013, 05:03 PM
So if you're actively engaged with a receiver and the QB hastily wings a duck somewhere in your vicinity, it should be an automatic PI?

Seems to me this is a recipe to end press coverage completely. You can't hit a guy and disengage faster than a QB can chuck a football straight up in the air.

My understanding of the relevant rules from the article I linked previously is as follows: if the DB is touching the WR beyond 5+ yards beyond the LOS before the ball is thrown it's either holding or illegal contact. After the ball is thrown, it's PI.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 05:19 PM
That last play in the falcons game could've gone PI too. Niner fans weren't complaining then.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2013, 05:19 PM
So if you're actively engaged with a receiver and the QB hastily wings a duck somewhere in your vicinity, it should be an automatic PI?

Seems to me this is a recipe to end press coverage completely. You can't hit a guy and disengage faster than a QB can chuck a football straight up in the air.

No, but its a judgment call. You can easily make the argument that Smith's contact prevented Crabtree from getting in place to catch that ball, regardless of its a duck or not.

Put it this way, would anyone have REALLY cried foul on that had they thrown a flag outside of Ravens fans?

gunns
02-05-2013, 06:16 PM
Whitlock on the new "no-call" saying the NFL got what it wanted. Did he comment on the Broncos game?

"Here’s your season-ending NFL Truths column:

The NFL got exactly what it wanted from referee Jerome Boger and the crew that worked the Super Bowl.

Roger Goodell wanted an officiating crew that would get out of the way and let the players be the stars.

For the past 15 years and spurred by the popularity of HD TV, NFL refs have been horning in on the players’ spotlight. The refs like being stars. They like being recognized. Ed Hochuli’s guns have become as well-known as Deion’s high-step.

Goodell wants to end this. He doesn’t want officiating stars. That’s why the NFL worked its system to assign a mediocre, nondescript ref to the Super Bowl. According to Boger’s jealous peers, his season-long grades did not justify his Super Bowl selection. Speculation quickly asserted the NFL manipulated its grading system so that an African-American ref could lead the Super Bowl.

If that were the case, Mike Carey would’ve been the easy choice. He’s worked the Super Bowl before and he’s highly regarded.

Nope. Goodell was after something different. Goodell wanted a ref who would stay out of the way, a crew that wouldn’t take over the game. And that’s what the league got.



Boger and his crew swallowed their flags from start to finish. They entered the stadium determined not to be the story when the game was over. Guess what? They’re the story. Jim Harbaugh was irate there was no defensive holding or pass interference called on San Fran’s last offensive play.

Boger and Co. spent the entire evening trying to avoid throwing their flags. Baltimore cornerback Cary Williams shoved an official and should’ve been tossed from the game in the first half. There was no flag.

Here's the rest http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/whitlock-truths-super-bowl-xlvii-jerome-boger-roger-goodell-referees-out-of-way-ray-lewis-jim-john-harbaugh-020413

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-05-2013, 06:21 PM
Whitlock is a fat racist clown. Always has been

gunns
02-05-2013, 06:36 PM
I agree that the Ravens probably would have won anyway. Even in the Broncos game, heaven knows the Broncos had enough of their own **** ups. There are 60 minutes in each game so it's rare if ever that a bad call produced the eventual outcome.

There are bad calls or non calls in every game, but usually not multiple calls where it's the big talk after the game. It was after the Bronco game in the media. It makes for too many suppositions about what might have been rather than what was. The refs have rules to enforce and they should. With a new deal they need to be doing a much better job. And Mike Perriera needs to be honest about the questionable ones. We're not stupid and nothing gets better by covering.

BroncoBeavis
02-05-2013, 07:22 PM
My understanding of the relevant rules from the article I linked previously is as follows: if the DB is touching the WR beyond 5+ yards beyond the LOS before the ball is thrown it's either holding or illegal contact. After the ball is thrown, it's PI.

The 5 yards thing was irrelevant. They're not going to nitpick between 5 or 6 yards. Especially in that situation. And if the QB throws the ball to a WR literally at the same time he's being legally bumped off the line, a ref is going to give the DB some benefit of the doubt.

And that's how it should be. When in doubt, the assumption should be no flag.

broncos-rock
02-05-2013, 09:35 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the punt on the 2nd to the last play of the game. The reason that he was able to run so much of the clock is that the guy was being held like in a bear hug from behind. I know basically the game was over but an extra 5 secs could have been huge.

oubronco
02-06-2013, 07:38 AM
There were 2-3 that were being bear hugged on that play

TonyR
02-06-2013, 08:11 AM
The 5 yards thing was irrelevant. They're not going to nitpick between 5 or 6 yards. Especially in that situation. And if the QB throws the ball to a WR literally at the same time he's being legally bumped off the line, a ref is going to give the DB some benefit of the doubt.

And that's how it should be. When in doubt, the assumption should be no flag.

Again, the pictures and video clearly show the DB hand a fist full of jersey 2-3 yards into the end zone. So to my eyes there is no doubt. The only possible thing I can maybe see is offsetting penalties, which I agree is pretty much never called.

Beantown Bronco
02-06-2013, 08:25 AM
I just feel they kept it consistent to the flow of the officiating of the game. Which was Swallowing flags.

Not when it came to pass interference penalties on receivers. It was the only penalty they seemed willing to call.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2013, 09:33 AM
Again, the pictures and video clearly show the DB hand a fist full of jersey 2-3 yards into the end zone. So to my eyes there is no doubt. The only possible thing I can maybe see is offsetting penalties, which I agree is pretty much never called.

Some guys' 2-3 yards are longer than others' I guess. :)

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/709/699/NoCall_original_original.gif?1359955740

broncobum6162
02-06-2013, 09:37 AM
I only remember one call go the 9ers way the running into the kicker.

Roughing the kicker would have been automatic 1st down..

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2013, 09:39 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the punt on the 2nd to the last play of the game. The reason that he was able to run so much of the clock is that the guy was being held like in a bear hug from behind. I know basically the game was over but an extra 5 secs could have been huge.

That was a terrible no call. Probably the worst of the game. But nearly inconsequential as far as my understanding of the rules go. The official can't whistle the play dead because of holding. And I don't believe it's possible under the rules to claim any time back afterwards due to a penalty mid-play.

So holding should have been called. But I think the best thing that could've come out of that would've been a 10 yard shorter field on the safety kick. Which might've marginally helped. Then again if your only option to win the game is taking a kick return to the house, 10 yards is pretty inconsequential.

Definitely seems like a rule change is needed here somehow though. Holding was definitely Harbaugh's game plan on that play, so you know something with the rules isn't right in this situation.

TonyR
02-06-2013, 10:18 AM
Some guys' 2-3 yards are longer than others' I guess.

Go to the first picture of the play in the link below, under the following paragraph:

And that brings us to this screenshot of the play, in which Jimmy Smith is clearly grabbing Michael Crabtree’s jersey and obstructing his path beyond five yards. Remember, the ball was snapped from the five yard line, and the contact is two yards into the end zone – seven yards from the line of scrimmage:

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-and-goal-pass-interference-super-bowl-47-video/

Requiem
02-06-2013, 10:26 AM
It was pass interference without a doubt. Anyone who says otherwise needs to buy the new Monopoly game. Yes, the iron piece has been removed and replaced with a cat.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2013, 10:41 AM
Go to the first picture of the play in the link below, under the following paragraph:

Yeah, if you gauge how far in he is by the length of his feet (assuming a foot or so per foot), his feet look to be about a yard in. He's leaning forward, but he's definitely less than 2 yards outside the 5 yard zone. This happens every game.

Frankly I don't want officials worrying about whether a guy is 6 or 7 yards off the line by the time a DB cuts him loose. The contact started within 5, and there's some necessary play in there. Refs don't have the processing time for the kind of thinking you expect... while you slowly sip your courvoisier, pouring over still camera images. :)

TonyR
02-06-2013, 01:53 PM
...while you slowly sip your courvoisier, pouring over still camera images.

LOL Says the guy who posted a gif trying to make his case (see post #143)! I'm sorry that the pic I'm pointing you to is more definitive than your gif.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2013, 02:32 PM
LOL Says the guy who posted a gif trying to make his case (see post #143)! I'm sorry that the pic I'm pointing you to is more definitive than your gif.

I'm sorry you think 1-2 yards is 2-3. But we all know a guy or two who's been known to exaggerate on length every now and again. :)

TonyR
02-06-2013, 02:39 PM
I'm sorry you think 1-2 yards is 2-3. But we all know a guy or two who's been known to exaggerate on length every now and again. :)

LOL Touche!!!