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Bacchus
02-01-2013, 12:08 AM
One in four Americans think God helps decide the outcome of football games
Rick Chandler
Jan 31, 2013, 9:00 AM EST

http://nbcoutofbounds.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/tebowpraygetty1.jpg?w=315
......according to the poll, 27 percent of Americans believe that God actually plays a role in determining which team wins a sporting event. Yes, God is waving that ball fair or foul, like an omnipotent Carlton Fisk. Or to put it another way, God spends all day playing Madden NFL 12 with real players.

Which means that David Akers must have really done something wrong in his life recently. God seems to be steamed at him.

The poll, conducted on Jan. 16, consisted of random telephone interviews with 1,033 subjects.

The percentage jumps even higher if youíre a white evangelical Protestant from the South.

Roughly 4-in-10 minority Christians (40%) and white evangelical Protestants (38%) agree that God does play a role in the outcome of a sporting event, compared to less than 3-in-10 (29%) Catholics, less than 1-in-5 (19%) white mainline Protestants, and approximately 1-in-10 (12%) religiously unaffiliated Americans.

More than one-third (36%) of Americans who live in the South agree that God plays a role in determining which team wins a sporting event, compared to nearly 3-in-10 (28%) Americans who live in the Midwest, 1-in-5 (20%) Americans who live in the Northeast, and 15% of Americans who live in the West.
That low percentage for the West is not surprising: thatís where Chargers and Raiders fans live.




Read more here along with always entertaining Yahoo comments: http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2013/01/31/one-in-four-americans-think-god-helps-decide-the-outcome-of-football-games/related/

ol#7
02-01-2013, 02:04 AM
Then what do you think of the morons who turn their beer labels a certain way to effect a kick or break into a past residence to sit in their lucky spot (49er fan). While dumb examples from recent beer commercials, I have seen any number of people invovled in various ritual acts, but I guess boob mojo never happened.

Man-Goblin
02-01-2013, 05:40 AM
I watch all Broncos games without pants. Not because I think it will help them win, but because it feels good.

Rohirrim
02-01-2013, 07:29 AM
God is a busy deity.

2KBack
02-01-2013, 07:38 AM
So you think religious people are stupid? I mean if one believes that a deity intervene in our lives, or even plans them, it isn't a leap in logic to think that includes the outcome of football games.

While I am just shy of an atheist, I don't think I would be arrogant enough to claim that religious people are Stoopid.

Bacchus
02-01-2013, 08:25 AM
Then what do you think of the morons who turn their beer labels a certain way to effect a kick or break into a past residence to sit in their lucky spot (49er fan). While dumb examples from recent beer commercials, I have seen any number of people invovled in various ritual acts, but I guess boob mojo never happened.

Good analogy, game day superstitions, boob mojo and religion are the same. I agree. They are all stoopid.

Boob mojo doesn't help Denver win, but it does improve the moral of the Mane.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 08:26 AM
So you think religious people are stupid? I mean if one believes that a deity intervene in our lives, or even plans them, it isn't a leap in logic to think that includes the outcome of football games.

While I am just shy of an atheist, I don't think I would be arrogant enough to claim that religious people are Stoopid.

Do you expect better when the OP is borderline retarded?

Bacchus
02-01-2013, 08:29 AM
So you think religious people are stupid? I mean if one believes that a deity intervene in our lives, or even plans them, it isn't a leap in logic to think that includes the outcome of football games.

While I am just shy of an atheist, I don't think I would be arrogant enough to claim that religious people are Stoopid.

I wouldn't call them stupid, but if they believe in God and they believe that God has a vested interest in the NFL and effectuates the outcome of games, they are ****ing stupid.

Beantown Bronco
02-01-2013, 08:38 AM
I wouldn't call them stupid, but if they believe in God and they believe that God has a vested interest in the NFL and effectuates the outcome of games, they are ****ing stupid.

If one believes in God, it usually follows that they believe that he is the one that essentially controls everything (including things like the weather that most CERTAINLY have an effect on outdoor sporting events). Maybe he doesn't have a vested interest in who wins or loses, but he doesn't have to, because he effects the games nonetheless by his other seemingly unrelated day to day actions.

Requiem
02-01-2013, 08:58 AM
So you think religious people are stupid? I mean if one believes that a deity intervene in our lives, or even plans them, it isn't a leap in logic to think that includes the outcome of football games.

While I am just shy of an atheist, I don't think I would be arrogant enough to claim that religious people are Stoopid.

I pray to Horus that the Broncos draft Xavier Rhodes in 2013.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 09:09 AM
I pray to Horus that the Broncos draft Xavier Rhodes in 2013.

I imagine he'll gone by our selection no matter how much we sacrifice to the great sky god

OABB
02-01-2013, 09:10 AM
religious people are naive and don't think for themselves, but they aren't stupid.

Rohirrim
02-01-2013, 09:11 AM
I pray to Horus that the Broncos draft Xavier Rhodes in 2013.

I pray to Zeus we draft Sharrif Floyd. My god will kick your god's ass. :redpunch:

Requiem
02-01-2013, 09:12 AM
I imagine he'll gone by our selection no matter how much we sacrifice to the great sky god

You are probably right.

OABB
02-01-2013, 09:19 AM
If god was involved, the raiders plane would have crashed years ago.

Archer81
02-01-2013, 09:21 AM
Gozer or GTFO.


:Broncos:

Tombstone RJ
02-01-2013, 09:23 AM
people are people and sometimes you have to people the people, the people people the people yah know?

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-01-2013, 09:25 AM
Then what do you think of the morons who turn their beer labels a certain way to effect a kick or break into a past residence to sit in their lucky spot (49er fan). While dumb examples from recent beer commercials, I have seen any number of people invovled in various ritual acts, but I guess boob mojo never happened.

Exactly. Robert de Niro in the movie "Silver Lining Playbook" is a perfect example of this! Ha! Great movie


On a side note, I have asked several religious people this question and everyone of them told me football is a materialistic entity and is in no way swayed by God.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 09:26 AM
The existence of a god that plays an active role in human affairs is one of the most utterly stupid and ignorant things a person can believe in.

God wouldn't stop the holocaust, but he'll help Ray Lewis play linebacker.

God wouldn't prevent 9/11 but he'll cure your Aunt of cancer.

I've never understood it, never will.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 09:28 AM
I imagine he'll gone by our selection no matter how much we sacrifice to the great sky god

Can we try sacrificing though? MacGruder? Lonestar?

Tombstone RJ
02-01-2013, 09:30 AM
The existence of a god that plays an active role in human affairs is one of the most utterly stupid and ignorant things a person can believe in.

God wouldn't stop the holocaust, but he'll help Ray Lewis play linebacker.

God wouldn't prevent 9/11 but he'll cure your Aunt of cancer.

I've never understood it, never will.

You don't understand racism either so you got that going for you too.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 09:34 AM
The existence of a god that plays an active role in human affairs is one of the most utterly stupid and ignorant things a person can believe in.

God wouldn't stop the holocaust, but he'll help Ray Lewis play linebacker.

God wouldn't prevent 9/11 but he'll cure your Aunt of cancer.

I've never understood it, never will.

I tend to agree with you, but have just grown to accept it. As an athiest, the idea of a higher power is absolutely absurd to me, and incredibly frustrating that people use it as some kind of a compass.

i still remember the day I officially realized I didnt believe it. I grew up with Jewish faith and my parents would send me to Jew sunday school, and one day they brought a halocaust survivor in to speak to a bunch of us 10 year olds. And he told some story about almost getting caught when he escaped Auschvitz and how that was some kind of miracle. And i remember thinking, wait a second, 6 million others died, why was saving YOU a miracle? It's not like you went on to do anything other than live a normal life.

But I'm hardly surprised by that stat. As someone said, if most people believe in God, then why shouldnt they believe a God affects the outcome of a football game. But I do question whether or not anyone on the Mane TRULY believes Boob Mojo or sitting in your lucky seat truly affects the outcome of games. I sincerely doubt it.

I have to wonder that, if society is still around in 5,000 years, if the idea of God is looked upon widely as absurd, much like today's society views Greek Gods.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 09:35 AM
I believe God cares about the outcome of football games. I don't believe he cares very much though...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 09:39 AM
I believe God cares about the outcome of football games. I don't believe he cares very much though...

If God's a Ravens fan, then I really don't wanna believe in him.

Requiem
02-01-2013, 09:45 AM
I have to wonder that, if society is still around in 5,000 years, if the idea of God is looked upon widely as absurd, much like today's society views Greek Gods.

Most definitely. Thanks for sharing your story.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
Can we try sacrificing though? MacGruder? Lonestar?

I'll take a dozen of them over one ThirtyDegrees

Paladin
02-01-2013, 09:54 AM
If God is a Ravens fan, he should GTFO.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 09:57 AM
If God's a Ravens fan, then I really don't wanna believe in him.

I think there are people involved in a game and God cares about people. Not so much the outcome but how we respond in situations.

I realize atheists find the higher power idea stupid. However for those who don't believe in God because they think he would be a super man of sorts, flying around stopping bad things from happening, that is a minunderstanding of what many believe about the nature of God. If you are a God raising your children and believe their experiences here on this mortal coil, good and bad, are going to contribute to their being formed how you want them, and by your own basic principles of righteousness you must allow humanity to exercise their agency, then bad things are going to happen. This will condemn the wicked, bring the good home and create opportunities for humanity to learn to take care of each other.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 10:01 AM
I think there are people involved in a game and God cares about people. Not so much the outcome but how we respond in situations.

I realize atheists find the higher power idea stupid. However for those who don't believe in God because they think he would be a super man of sorts, flying around stopping bad things from happening, that is a minunderstanding of what many believe about the nature of God. If you are a God raising your children and believe their experiences here on this mortal coil, good and bad, are going to contribute to their being formed how you want them, and by your own basic principles of righteousness you must allow humanity to exercise their agency, then bad things are going to happen. This will condemn the wicked, bring the good home and create opportunities for humanity to learn to take care of each other.

This is one of those things where we'll always just have to agree to disagree, which is fine (and i sincerely HOPE you're right), but i have a very hard time believing in something that's theory or intangible and has given me zero proof of any sort of existence. People often compare feeling of God to Love, but I've felt love, i've felt how it can drive you crazy and instantly change your priorities. Ive never found that from a higher being.

But you're a smart guy and are measured in your beliefs, and I doubt you'd ever use God as an excuse or reason to do something wicked. Unfortunately there are tons of idiots who do, and thats the frustrating thing.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 10:06 AM
This is one of those things where we'll always just have to agree to disagree, which is fine (and i sincerely HOPE you're right), but i have a very hard time believing in something that's theory or intangible and has given me zero proof of any sort of existence. People often compare feeling of God to Love, but I've felt love, i've felt how it can drive you crazy and instantly change your priorities. Ive never found that from a higher being.

But you're a smart guy and are measured in your beliefs, and I doubt you'd ever use God as an excuse or reason to do something wicked. Unfortunately there are tons of idiots who do, and thats the frustrating thing.

Stupid people do stupid things for the wrong reasons on both sides of ANY issue.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
Stupid people do stupid things for the wrong reasons on both sides of ANY issue.

No doubt, humans are retarded. And I've actually long said that if religion didn't exist, humans would find something else to justify their retardation. But it's still frustrating when that's the excuse they give.

ColoradoDarin
02-01-2013, 10:19 AM
I think there are people involved in a game and God cares about people. Not so much the outcome but how we respond in situations.

I realize atheists find the higher power idea stupid. However for those who don't believe in God because they think he would be a super man of sorts, flying around stopping bad things from happening, that is a minunderstanding of what many believe about the nature of God. If you are a God raising your children and believe their experiences here on this mortal coil, good and bad, are going to contribute to their being formed how you want them, and by your own basic principles of righteousness you must allow humanity to exercise their agency, then bad things are going to happen. This will condemn the wicked, bring the good home and create opportunities for humanity to learn to take care of each other.

Come on, children turn out so much better when their parents shelter them from everything and also give them everything they ever desire. We never refer to them as spoiled rotten.

sisterhellfyre
02-01-2013, 10:24 AM
Can we try sacrificing though? MacGruder? Lonestar?

Wouldn't work. You can't go insulting Mithra through the act of sacrifice.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 10:28 AM
I honestly have no answer for you. I admit much of what I take is on faith. I have had spiritual experiences that are powerful and moving and were as life changing as a deep love or a harsh cruelty. What's interesting and disappointing is there are a number of posters on here who will tell you emphatically that what I experienced was of evil design because they're "way" is right and mine is wrong.

Spirituality is deeply personal. I cannot discount the wisdom and power I hear from Budhists who have found profound meaning in their journey's just because they don't believe Christ died for their sins. I have met many who profess to be spiritual, regularly attend church and go to meetings and seem to be shallow, petty and cruel - devoid of any growth that spiritual progression is supposed to afford.

I have wondered how some can experience these things and others cannot. I theorized perhaps God is preparing them for something else, or perhaps some of us evolved to have these experiences because it created a shared experience that bound early mankind together and afford hope in what was an incredibly bleak existence.

I don't know, SonofLeeloLang. I just know what works for me. And I completely accept and applaud that what works for me won't work for others. Even my own brand of Mormonism is different than the guy sitting in the pew next to me this Sunday. For me, this doesn't weaken my own faith, or weaken religion in general. It speaks to the universality of God's ability to touch each person in exactly the way they need to be. Perhaps God has found the best way to mold you into who you need to be is through an atheistic approach.

I don't know. That's the one thing I am sure of.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 11:01 AM
I honestly have no answer for you. I admit much of what I take is on faith. I have had spiritual experiences that are powerful and moving and were as life changing as a deep love or a harsh cruelty. What's interesting and disappointing is there are a number of posters on here who will tell you emphatically that what I experienced was of evil design because they're "way" is right and mine is wrong.

Spirituality is deeply personal. I cannot discount the wisdom and power I hear from Budhists who have found profound meaning in their journey's just because they don't believe Christ died for their sins. I have met many who profess to be spiritual, regularly attend church and go to meetings and seem to be shallow, petty and cruel - devoid of any growth that spiritual progression is supposed to afford.

I have wondered how some can experience these things and others cannot. I theorized perhaps God is preparing them for something else, or perhaps some of us evolved to have these experiences because it created a shared experience that bound early mankind together and afford hope in what was an incredibly bleak existence.

I don't know, SonofLeeloLang. I just know what works for me. And I completely accept and applaud that what works for me won't work for others. Even my own brand of Mormonism is different than the guy sitting in the pew next to me this Sunday. For me, this doesn't weaken my own faith, or weaken religion in general. It speaks to the universality of God's ability to touch each person in exactly the way they need to be. Perhaps God has found the best way to mold you into who you need to be is through an atheistic approach.

I don't know. That's the one thing I am sure of.

This is fair! And trust me, I have no issues with your beliefs or anyones personal beliefs. I think its a beautiful thing if your beliefs allow you to be a good person. I do take issue with religious people (or people in general) who judge and shove their beliefs on me, especially if they seep into law and government. And I assume we probably all agree on that.

bronco_diesel
02-01-2013, 11:05 AM
I believe God cares about the outcome of football games. I don't believe he cares very much though...

I believe the outcome is more a formality and He proably cares less about it and more about how individuals conduct themselves during the game.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 11:09 AM
This is fair! And trust me, I have no issues with your beliefs or anyones personal beliefs. I think its a beautiful thing if your beliefs allow you to be a good person. I do take issue with religious people (or people in general) who judge and shove their beliefs on me, especially if they seep into law and government. And I assume we probably all agree on that.

I never felt attacked by you. And to your last point I would say yes and no. I'm not a fan of legislating the minutiae of a set of beliefs onto a people. However if my beliefs are a critical part of my moral values, how can they not affect my view on moral things like crime, justice and raising children - things that we must make choices on in a political arena? For example, my beliefs in compassion, hard work, self-reliance and personal agency directly contriubute to my fiscally conservative world view. All of those are heavily influenced by my spiritual believes

Interstingly, you talk to some very liberal Mormons and they will tell you the exact same thing - their believes in compassion, hard work, agency and self-reliance are directly related to why they vote for higher taxes, gay marriage and less millitary spending. :)

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 11:10 AM
I believe the outcome is more a formality and He proably cares less about it and more about how individuals conduct themselves during the game.

There's decent evidence that He is actually a massive football fan and will even get someone off a murder charge so they can compete in the Superbowl.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 11:24 AM
I never felt attacked by you. And to your last point I would say yes and no. I'm not a fan of legislating the minutiae of a set of beliefs onto a people. However if my beliefs are a critical part of my moral values, how can they not affect my view on moral things like crime, justice and raising children - things that we must make choices on in a political arena? For example, my beliefs in compassion, hard work, self-reliance and personal agency directly contriubute to my fiscally conservative world view. All of those are heavily influenced by my spiritual believes

Interstingly, you talk to some very liberal Mormons and they will tell you the exact same thing - their believes in compassion, hard work, agency and self-reliance are directly related to why they vote for higher taxes, gay marriage and less millitary spending. :)

Well i think morals born from religious views and morals drawn from just being a decent human often cross paths. But I do take issue with gay marriage for example. To me that's an issue steeped in the fact that religions have declared it a "sin."

Jetmeck
02-01-2013, 11:47 AM
Good analogy, game day superstitions, boob mojo and religion are the same. I agree. They are all stoopid.

Boob mojo doesn't help Denver win, but it does improve the moral of the Mane.


AMEN to all that.............err well Hilarious!

GoD is too busy stopping wars and terrorist attacks to affect a football game.................haha

gyldenlove
02-01-2013, 12:18 PM
So you think religious people are stupid? I mean if one believes that a deity intervene in our lives, or even plans them, it isn't a leap in logic to think that includes the outcome of football games.

While I am just shy of an atheist, I don't think I would be arrogant enough to claim that religious people are Stoopid.

The question is, does god intervene only in pro games or does he also determine the outcome when I play 2 on 2 pickup basketball with a few friends?

In this case I do think there is valid evidence to claim that believing an intangible but omnipotent and omniscient deity interferes with athletic contests constitutes a pretty serious delusion. I wouldn't equate delusion with stupidity, but certainly if you replace the word god in almost all sentences that involve direct interaction with objects the vast majority of people would agree the sentence is nonsensical.

Example: Santa Claus determines the outcome of football games. I think we can pretty much all agree that that sentence is nonsense, firstly there is no evidence that supports the existence of Santa, but a vast body of evidence that supports that he doesn't exist.

Rohirrim
02-01-2013, 12:28 PM
I honestly have no answer for you. I admit much of what I take is on faith. I have had spiritual experiences that are powerful and moving and were as life changing as a deep love or a harsh cruelty. What's interesting and disappointing is there are a number of posters on here who will tell you emphatically that what I experienced was of evil design because they're "way" is right and mine is wrong.

Spirituality is deeply personal. I cannot discount the wisdom and power I hear from Budhists who have found profound meaning in their journey's just because they don't believe Christ died for their sins. I have met many who profess to be spiritual, regularly attend church and go to meetings and seem to be shallow, petty and cruel - devoid of any growth that spiritual progression is supposed to afford.

I have wondered how some can experience these things and others cannot. I theorized perhaps God is preparing them for something else, or perhaps some of us evolved to have these experiences because it created a shared experience that bound early mankind together and afford hope in what was an incredibly bleak existence.

I don't know, SonofLeeloLang. I just know what works for me. And I completely accept and applaud that what works for me won't work for others. Even my own brand of Mormonism is different than the guy sitting in the pew next to me this Sunday. For me, this doesn't weaken my own faith, or weaken religion in general. It speaks to the universality of God's ability to touch each person in exactly the way they need to be. Perhaps God has found the best way to mold you into who you need to be is through an atheistic approach.

I don't know. That's the one thing I am sure of.

Maybe what you have experienced is some untapped part of your own self? And the faith is a simply a mechanism that allows you to bypass your ego and touch that inner self?

Requiem
02-01-2013, 12:29 PM
Getting in touch with your divine ego (higher self) is important.

gyldenlove
02-01-2013, 12:35 PM
I never felt attacked by you. And to your last point I would say yes and no. I'm not a fan of legislating the minutiae of a set of beliefs onto a people. However if my beliefs are a critical part of my moral values, how can they not affect my view on moral things like crime, justice and raising children - things that we must make choices on in a political arena? For example, my beliefs in compassion, hard work, self-reliance and personal agency directly contriubute to my fiscally conservative world view. All of those are heavily influenced by my spiritual believes

Interstingly, you talk to some very liberal Mormons and they will tell you the exact same thing - their believes in compassion, hard work, agency and self-reliance are directly related to why they vote for higher taxes, gay marriage and less millitary spending. :)

I would argue against your point that morals are determined by your spirituality. Morals, and in fact very similar moral systems are quite universal to humanity - murder, theft, child rearing, violence, compassion are found in all human societies including those who share not a single aspect of spiritual belief with you. Deep in the amazon there are tribes who share almost identical morals and values with you, despite never having heard a word of english, never having been exposed to the bible in any of its forms or its teachings. The justification for your beliefs may in your specific case have influenced your adherence to your morals, but your morals are quite independent of those beliefs - at least anthropologically.

Any rigid belief system must set forth a number of instructions to be followed, however as times change this set of instructions becomes partly irrelevant - we see that with a number of biblical prohibitions and there are examples in all major religions. When this happens, decisions much be made in situations not accounted for and these decisions must be made based on the entirety of our experience and knowledge, this is where we often see schisms in society as some people will weigh one part of their experience or belief over another. This is why some christians weigh the requirement of compassion and charity highly when talking about tax policy, while others weigh individualism and self reliance higher.

You choose in most situations how you let your beliefs, your education and your basic human values influence you, because there are many examples of where these influences do not agree.

IHaveALight
02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
All is one, seperation only exists in the mind. It's impossible for god not to have an impact, because everyone involved is god.

B-Large
02-01-2013, 01:18 PM
One in four Americans think God helps decide the outcome of football games
Rick Chandler
Jan 31, 2013, 9:00 AM EST

http://nbcoutofbounds.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/tebowpraygetty1.jpg?w=315
......according to the poll, 27 percent of Americans believe that God actually plays a role in determining which team wins a sporting event. Yes, God is waving that ball fair or foul, like an omnipotent Carlton Fisk. Or to put it another way, God spends all day playing Madden NFL 12 with real players.

Which means that David Akers must have really done something wrong in his life recently. God seems to be steamed at him.

The poll, conducted on Jan. 16, consisted of random telephone interviews with 1,033 subjects.

The percentage jumps even higher if youíre a white evangelical Protestant from the South.

Roughly 4-in-10 minority Christians (40%) and white evangelical Protestants (38%) agree that God does play a role in the outcome of a sporting event, compared to less than 3-in-10 (29%) Catholics, less than 1-in-5 (19%) white mainline Protestants, and approximately 1-in-10 (12%) religiously unaffiliated Americans.

More than one-third (36%) of Americans who live in the South agree that God plays a role in determining which team wins a sporting event, compared to nearly 3-in-10 (28%) Americans who live in the Midwest, 1-in-5 (20%) Americans who live in the Northeast, and 15% of Americans who live in the West.
That low percentage for the West is not surprising: thatís where Chargers and Raiders fans live.




Read more here along with always entertaining Yahoo comments: http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2013/01/31/one-in-four-americans-think-god-helps-decide-the-outcome-of-football-games/related/


God Hates John Fox, who was compelled to take a knee with time on the clock, time outs and the best intermediate passer in the history of the NFL....

What did John do to piss God off?

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 01:53 PM
I would argue against your point that morals are determined by your spirituality. Morals, and in fact very similar moral systems are quite universal to humanity - murder, theft, child rearing, violence, compassion are found in all human societies including those who share not a single aspect of spiritual belief with you. Deep in the amazon there are tribes who share almost identical morals and values with you, despite never having heard a word of english, never having been exposed to the bible in any of its forms or its teachings. The justification for your beliefs may in your specific case have influenced your adherence to your morals, but your morals are quite independent of those beliefs - at least anthropologically.

Any rigid belief system must set forth a number of instructions to be followed, however as times change this set of instructions becomes partly irrelevant - we see that with a number of biblical prohibitions and there are examples in all major religions. When this happens, decisions much be made in situations not accounted for and these decisions must be made based on the entirety of our experience and knowledge, this is where we often see schisms in society as some people will weigh one part of their experience or belief over another. This is why some christians weigh the requirement of compassion and charity highly when talking about tax policy, while others weigh individualism and self reliance higher.

You choose in most situations how you let your beliefs, your education and your basic human values influence you, because there are many examples of where these influences do not agree.

I totally disagree. The Aztecs had a religion that sacrificed humans to the sun god. There are tribes that eat their enemies because of the beliefs of how consuming your enemy can help you. You say there are "basic human values" and even try and even suggest there is anthropological evidence for such values when the evidence is completely the opposite. People torture, enslave, murder and even eat each other. They commit every carnal act known. For every noble, egalitarian society you point to, I can point to multiple others had cultures and religions that fed horrific behavior. Certainly there is a symbiotic relationship between religion, culture, morals and the society that opperates beneath them, but to say that morals exist in a vaccuum is complete hogwash.

And personally speaking, you're wrong there as well. My morals would be very different on several levels if I wasn't practicing my faith. I wouldn't want to be part of a religion that didn't challenge my character or try to shape me in some way. Too often people look for religion that already meets with everything they agree with and then they wonder why they don't get anything out of church when it never challenges them to become something else.

gyldenlove
02-01-2013, 02:04 PM
I honestly have no answer for you. I admit much of what I take is on faith. I have had spiritual experiences that are powerful and moving and were as life changing as a deep love or a harsh cruelty. What's interesting and disappointing is there are a number of posters on here who will tell you emphatically that what I experienced was of evil design because they're "way" is right and mine is wrong.

Spirituality is deeply personal. I cannot discount the wisdom and power I hear from Budhists who have found profound meaning in their journey's just because they don't believe Christ died for their sins. I have met many who profess to be spiritual, regularly attend church and go to meetings and seem to be shallow, petty and cruel - devoid of any growth that spiritual progression is supposed to afford.

I have wondered how some can experience these things and others cannot. I theorized perhaps God is preparing them for something else, or perhaps some of us evolved to have these experiences because it created a shared experience that bound early mankind together and afford hope in what was an incredibly bleak existence.

I don't know, SonofLeeloLang. I just know what works for me. And I completely accept and applaud that what works for me won't work for others. Even my own brand of Mormonism is different than the guy sitting in the pew next to me this Sunday. For me, this doesn't weaken my own faith, or weaken religion in general. It speaks to the universality of God's ability to touch each person in exactly the way they need to be. Perhaps God has found the best way to mold you into who you need to be is through an atheistic approach.

I don't know. That's the one thing I am sure of.

Spirituality is part of humanity, imperfect as we are we can not comprehend all that we are and all that the world around us is. This failure of comprehension is spirituality, when we glimpse that which we can not understand and wonder or dismay at the marvels.

Spirituality is as individual as aesthetics, on the most profound level we can be moved by beauty or horror, but the beauty that moves one may be lost on another.

Sadly some organizations have decided to adopt an absolutist view, and only those things and phenomena that are officially supported are acceptable and all others are evil and must be shunned. This is a sad and archaic condition that works to control and limit those who cannot and those who will not see beyond the cage they are put into - but today when development and technology continually tear down cages and break new ground, we must accept that absolutism is a thing of the past, a thing of the days when answers could not be offered to simple questions and when knowledge was isolated in ivory towers.

At the end of the day, the truths we all need to know and accept are that we are all human and we are all capable of causing great joy and sadness, both to those we know and those we don't. You should never be ashamed of who you are and you should accept that if someone does not accept you it is their failing, not yours and when you fail to accept someone else it is because your failing not theirs.

gyldenlove
02-01-2013, 02:19 PM
I totally disagree. The Aztecs had a religion that sacrificed humans to the sun god. There are tribes that eat their enemies because of the beliefs of how consuming your enemy can help you. You say there are "basic human values" and even try and even suggest there is anthropological evidence for such values when the evidence is completely the opposite. People torture, enslave, murder and even eat each other. They commit every carnal act known. For every noble, egalitarian society you point to, I can point to multiple others had cultures and religions that fed horrific behavior. Certainly there is a symbiotic relationship between religion, culture, morals and the society that opperates beneath them, but to say that morals exist in a vaccuum is complete hogwash.

And personally speaking, you're wrong there as well. My morals would be very different on several levels if I wasn't practicing my faith. I wouldn't want to be part of a religion that didn't challenge my character or try to shape me in some way. Too often people look for religion that already meets with everything they agree with and then they wonder why they don't get anything out of church when it never challenges them to become something else.

Name me one "civilization" that has not sacrificed humans, tortured, enslaved, raped and pillaged? Name me one religion that has always existed in peace with those of other religions and those of other races. The only difference is the magnitude of atrocities committed and this is mostly limited by the availability of victims.

Name me one society where murder, theft and arson has not been punished? you mention the Aztecs, which had a court system that operated with fairly codified laws of punishment for various crimes. Murder was no less illegal to the Aztecs than it was to the Vikings, the Romans, the Japanese, Polynesians, Mohawks or than it is in Arizona. In fact the Aztecs may rank ahead of many of those societies in terms of civility as slaves in the Aztec empire had legal protection which they didn't in Rome or among the Vikings or in Alabama or Japan.

No society exists or has ever existed where murder or theft is accepted - and human sacrifice whereever it has been performed has ALWAYS been performed as a religious act - in almost every society religion is in fact the ONLY way to justify taking a human life....

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 02:44 PM
Name me one "civilization" that has not sacrificed humans, tortured, enslaved, raped and pillaged? Name me one religion that has always existed in peace with those of other religions and those of other races. The only difference is the magnitude of atrocities committed and this is mostly limited by the availability of victims.

Name me one society where murder, theft and arson has not been punished? you mention the Aztecs, which had a court system that operated with fairly codified laws of punishment for various crimes. Murder was no less illegal to the Aztecs than it was to the Vikings, the Romans, the Japanese, Polynesians, Mohawks or than it is in Arizona. In fact the Aztecs may rank ahead of many of those societies in terms of civility as slaves in the Aztec empire had legal protection which they didn't in Rome or among the Vikings or in Alabama or Japan.

No society exists or has ever existed where murder or theft is accepted - and human sacrifice whereever it has been performed has ALWAYS been performed as a religious act - in almost every society religion is in fact the ONLY way to justify taking a human life....

The Babylonians codefied law but they pretty much killed you any time you did anything wrong. It was simple but effective and had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with keeping order. Most would argue that is immoral. Not sure what point you're trying to make but it's doing more to make my point than yours. If your point is "everyone has some morals" I wouldn't disagree. I took issue with you suggesting "morals are essentially the same through time and history and aren't influenced by religion." That second point is categorically incorrect.

jerseyboiler120
02-01-2013, 02:54 PM
Has anyone posted the theory that our God and prior cultures' Gods were really aliens visiting earth long long ago? It just may be that they care so much about football that they let a murderer get away with the crime so he can play football and be given unfair advantages by the officials. And I've heard they don't like deer, so they support someone using deer antler spray to get big and strong.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 03:14 PM
Has anyone posted the theory that our God and prior cultures' Gods were really aliens visiting earth long long ago? It just may be that they care so much about football that they let a murderer get away with the crime so he can play football and be given unfair advantages by the officials. And I've heard they don't like deer, so they support someone using deer antler spray to get big and strong.

http://memeimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ancient-aliens-guy-big-hair-giorgio-tsoukalos.jpeg

jerseyboiler120
02-01-2013, 03:36 PM
Lmaooo that guy is hilarious. His hair has gotten wilder and wilder over the past couple years.

lolcopter
02-01-2013, 04:21 PM
This thread didn't take long to become full blown retard

gjge all

DHallblows
02-01-2013, 05:54 PM
There's decent evidence that He is actually a massive football fan and will even get someone off a murder charge so they can compete in the Superbowl.

He probably got in trouble with a loanshark, so he placed a bet while the trial was happening that Ray would win another Super Bowl in 13 years.

I bet he got ridonkulous odds...

DENVERDUI55
02-01-2013, 06:54 PM
Then what do you think of the morons who turn their beer labels a certain way to effect a kick or break into a past residence to sit in their lucky spot (49er fan). While dumb examples from recent beer commercials, I have seen any number of people invovled in various ritual acts, but I guess boob mojo never happened.

What about posters on the mane that think you can jinx outcomes of Bronco games?

errand
02-01-2013, 07:24 PM
The existence of a god that plays an active role in human affairs is one of the most utterly stupid and ignorant things a person can believe in.

God wouldn't stop the holocaust, but he'll help Ray Lewis play linebacker.

God wouldn't prevent 9/11 but he'll cure your Aunt of cancer.

I've never understood it, never will.

Read the Bible...the answers are all in there. Read it with the intent to comprehend, and with the open mind you liberals always claim to have, and you'll be surprised. As for whether or not God decides the winners and losers....

You can choose to believe in Him or not...it's called freewill.

Some choose to believe in other things.....if you think wearing the same unwashed jersey every week will help your team win, how does that make someone thinking the team won because of God stupid?

Jetmeck
02-01-2013, 11:25 PM
Read the Bible...the answers are all in there. Read it with the intent to comprehend, and with the open mind you liberals always claim to have, and you'll be surprised. As for whether or not God decides the winners and losers....

You can choose to believe in Him or not...it's called freewill.

Some choose to believe in other things.....if you think wearing the same unwashed jersey every week will help your team win, how does that make someone thinking the team won because of God stupid?



I have read it.........went to church religiously as a youth.

It is fiction. Since you went there with the liberal comment............


Tell me how conservatives are so religious when they want to force

some poor woman to have a rapists child and then after its born they

forget everything the Bibles teaches because they want to cut

funding for everything that would help the kid.


Your either religious and follow your faith on everything, not just

when its convenient to your agument..... but forcing your religious

beliefs on someone else is BS..................but don't follow the good

book on abortion and then throw the poor under the bus.

Chew on that awhile..................

Jetmeck
02-01-2013, 11:34 PM
I could also make the argument that the right wing nut jobs who think they need an assault rifle even though without them lives would have already been saved like in Colorado shooting. High capacity drums/clips and assault rifles
are not needed by the public and without them lives would have been saved and will be saved in the future.

Nobody wants your pistols, shotguns or hunting rifles but if I ever were unfortunate enough to be in the situation those people were in the movie theatre I want the asshole with the gun to not have an assault rifle and large ammo clips so he can be taken out after the first 10-12 shots instead of 30-100 shots.

Yet you religious clowns are the first types to defend these weapons and ammo clips. How the hell do you balance that with your religion ?

Dr.5280
02-01-2013, 11:35 PM
Give GOD a break. He has three religions to run and sometimes he just ffuucckkss up.

Jetmeck
02-01-2013, 11:35 PM
Don't pull the religion card only when it is convenient, I am not buying it.

Tombstone RJ
02-03-2013, 01:38 PM
I have read it.........went to church religiously as a youth.

It is fiction. Since you went there with the liberal comment............


Tell me how conservatives are so religious when they want to force

some poor woman to have a rapists child and then after its born they

forget everything the Bibles teaches because they want to cut

funding for everything that would help the kid.


Your either religious and follow your faith on everything, not just

when its convenient to your agument..... but forcing your religious

beliefs on someone else is BS..................but don't follow the good

book on abortion and then throw the poor under the bus.

Chew on that awhile..................

The Bible is the most scrutinized text in the history of the world, and no one has proven it to be fiction, ever!

as for the rest of your post, it's not even worth addressing.

Jetmeck
02-03-2013, 01:49 PM
The Bible is the most scrutinized text in the history of the world, and no one has proven it to be fiction, ever!

as for the rest of your post, it's not even worth addressing.


Your kidding right ? Your proof thats its real is you have no proof ?

Typical religious nonsense like when thousands of people are killed it was god's plan ............

As for the rest of my post you can't justify being pro life and also fighting against common sense gun proposlas to save lives.

Also no way in hell republican so called conservatives are religious when they force some poor raped woman to conceive and they propose to throw poor people and old people under the bus.

Your Bible teachs to take care of you fellow man not just when its convenient to do so..............

Parting of the red sea and the great flood........lol

You are gullible.

Regardless conservatives religion when it comes to politics is BS...........they use only when it suits their purposes.

That is not what is taught in the good book.

TDmvp
02-03-2013, 01:52 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsgb3dLv6I1qjs0gjo1_500.jpg


and might I add

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkqm0enAZt1qh59n0o1_500.gif

Mogulseeker
02-03-2013, 04:42 PM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/541421_10151258124600753_1564015493_n.jpg

Willynowei
02-03-2013, 08:53 PM
You know whats WAYYYY STOOOPIDER?

The flawed logical conclusion drawn by the journalist of A---->C, B----->C; and therefore, A---->B. In other words, kicking a fieldgoal contributes to winning, god plays a role in the team winning, therefore, god decides whether each fieldgoal is made.

Wait you know what's stupider than that? This thread!

Tombstone RJ
02-03-2013, 10:25 PM
Your kidding right ? Your proof thats its real is you have no proof ?

Typical religious nonsense like when thousands of people are killed it was god's plan ............

As for the rest of my post you can't justify being pro life and also fighting against common sense gun proposlas to save lives.

Also no way in hell republican so called conservatives are religious when they force some poor raped woman to conceive and they propose to throw poor people and old people under the bus.

Your Bible teachs to take care of you fellow man not just when its convenient to do so..............

Parting of the red sea and the great flood........lol

You are gullible.

Regardless conservatives religion when it comes to politics is BS...........they use only when it suits their purposes.

That is not what is taught in the good book.

lol

gyldenlove
02-04-2013, 10:01 AM
The Babylonians codefied law but they pretty much killed you any time you did anything wrong. It was simple but effective and had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with keeping order. Most would argue that is immoral. Not sure what point you're trying to make but it's doing more to make my point than yours. If your point is "everyone has some morals" I wouldn't disagree. I took issue with you suggesting "morals are essentially the same through time and history and aren't influenced by religion." That second point is categorically incorrect.

There is no evidence that morals shifted due to religion. Slavery, oppression of women, torture and ritual killings existed before and after the emergence of any major religion. The harming or killing of a member of your own society or the theft of the goods of others has been wrong in every society, before or after religion.

I am not saying that morals are the same through time and history - they clearly have changed. I am saying morals have not changed because of and are not dictated by religion. Morals have changed to accommodate changes in society due to technology, changes in population density and heterogeneity and the change from a primary need to a secondary need driven society.

The death sentence or the use of disfigurement or dismemberment was used quite universally due to the high cost and difficulties with incarceration. This is a commonality across the globe, you see it in Asia, Africa, South America, Europe and North America in tribes and nations. At the time in a primary need driven society it wasn't feasible to remove a large number of able bodied adults from other tasks to watch over prisoners.