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ludo21
01-31-2013, 04:13 PM
"Obviously, it's not working the way it should."


- Tony Dungy


Working the way it should? What does this even mean... aka rooney rule = hire more black coaches?

Are we (society) still racist?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8903044/black-former-nfl-coaches-say-rooney-rule-broken

Mogulseeker
01-31-2013, 04:21 PM
I remember the comment. I believe Dungy was making the point that the NFL is still kind of a good ol' boys network, and teams want experience... and because of past norms, it's hard to find a black coach with the right experience to be an NFL coach.

Dungy even said he wouldn't be a good coach anymore, but if he threw his name in, he would get some offers just because he's a "big name."

That's what it comes down to: teams want big names, and there just aren't many black "big names" yet.

ludo21
01-31-2013, 04:24 PM
i can see that... to a point i suppose

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-31-2013, 04:25 PM
Of course there is. But it's still here because they want to make an issue of it.

Hiring the candidate you want based on whether you like him is not racist. Making an issue of that person not being black is though.

I wonder how racist it would be to see a "whitepeoplemeet.com" TV commercial. I just saw a "blackpeoplemeet.com" one.

gyldenlove
01-31-2013, 04:30 PM
It is a glass ceiling, it exists in many different forms in different businesses. Old white guys tend to hire young white guys, often guys they are related to, that means you have an abundance of young white guys in position to get experience and when you go to hire a new old guy, you look at the current group of young guys with sufficient experience, the majority of which are white. If 50% of all first time front office and coach hires were minority candidates, it would take about 25 years before we would begin to see the results in head coaching and general manager positions.

TheReverend
01-31-2013, 04:51 PM
The league isn't hiring enough white cornerbacks. Clearly the "David Duke" rule isn't working.

DENVERDUI55
01-31-2013, 05:08 PM
The NFL owners should just interview snoop dog to fullfill the rule.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-31-2013, 05:20 PM
I dont think the color of someone's skin helps a team win a ****ing football game. It's ridiculous. Are there more singletarys than Tomlins? You bet. Just like theres more manginis than harbaughs. Succeed in the football world you get hired. Saying you can't win with Vernon Davis you get fired.

Whenever these questions come up it can easily be answered with the doctor theory. Would you want a doctor who went to school based on his grades and was hired for his doc smarts, or would you go to a doctor who got accepted at a school based on his color, and was hired for that reason?

R-Mac
01-31-2013, 05:41 PM
The Rooney Rule is racist.

ZONA
01-31-2013, 05:43 PM
I was married to to mixed race woman (1/2 black, 1/2 white) for 12 years so I think that clearly indicates I'm not racist but I've never liked this rule. It's ok for 75% of the NFL players to be black (what, maybe 90% of NBA players are black) and there is no rule that says you must at least try out 1 white guy for that position first. I don't think this rule works and it's stupid. NFL owners want 2 things, money and rings. If it was a black HC winning them championships, they would be be loving life. We've seen white coaches canned after 1 year. It's a what have you done for me lately league and black or white HC, if you don't win, you're not going to be a coach long.

Mogulseeker
01-31-2013, 05:52 PM
I dont think the color of someone's skin helps a team win a ****ing football game. It's ridiculous. Are there more singletarys than Tomlins? You bet. Just like theres more manginis than harbaughs. Succeed in the football world you get hired. Saying you can't win with Vernon Davis you get fired.

Whenever these questions come up it can easily be answered with the doctor theory. Would you want a doctor who went to school based on his grades and was hired for his doc smarts, or would you go to a doctor who got accepted at a school based on his color, and was hired for that reason?

I've never met a doctor/med student that got into school or a job because of his race.

Mogulseeker
01-31-2013, 05:53 PM
The league isn't hiring enough white cornerbacks. Clearly the "David Duke" rule isn't working.

Hilarious!

SonOfLe-loLang
01-31-2013, 05:54 PM
My gut instinct tells me that this isn't racist, because the NFL generally rewards based on performance (though the same old tired names tend to be recycled, though i dont think thats a race issue.) But there are a paltry amount of minority head coaches for whatever reason. If there were great black coordinators constantly getting overlooked, that'd be one thing, but I dont think there are? Then again, I guess you can ask the question of why there aren't so many black coordinators and so on.

But of course society is still racist...thats not even a question.

Bigdawg26
01-31-2013, 06:09 PM
I was married to to mixed race woman (1/2 black, 1/2 white) for 12 years so I think that clearly indicates I'm not racist but I've never liked this rule. It's ok for 75% of the NFL players to be black (what, maybe 90% of NBA players are black) and there is no rule that says you must at least try out 1 white guy for that position first. I don't think this rule works and it's stupid. NFL owners want 2 things, money and rings. If it was a black HC winning them championships, they would be be loving life. We've seen white coaches canned after 1 year. It's a what have you done for me lately league and black or white HC, if you don't win, you're not going to be a coach long.

OK dude when you have to justified your response by saying you were married to a mixed race girl isn't a good justification of saying your not racist. It's like saying "I'm not racist I got a three black friends!" You make a good point of 75% of the players are black but how many owners are executives are?? Not many! John Elway was a great quarterback turned great executive but I don't see Warren Moon or Randall Cunningham getting any calls! I heard the Dungy interview and agree with him and I see your point. I think the Rooney rule is BS too. Teams already know how they are going to hire, but they have to interview a minority anyway. It's BS!

Atwater His Ass
01-31-2013, 06:28 PM
It's a business. Teams should be able to hire anyone they want and not forced to interview any potential canidates.

loborugger
01-31-2013, 06:34 PM
Sports is the ultimate performance based product in the US. The performance is also easily very quantifiable with wins and loses. And with the amount $$$ involved in pro sports these days, no owner worth owning a team & no fan base is gonna to give a damn about the skin color of the head coach.

bowtown
01-31-2013, 06:47 PM
It's a business. Teams should be able to hire anyone they want and not forced to interview any potential canidates.

No, the NFL is a business. The teams are just franchises under the umbrella. There are rules they have to follow that are agreed to by the collective.

Atwater His Ass
01-31-2013, 06:50 PM
No **** sherlock. The point is that I don't agree with the rule.

DBroncos4life
01-31-2013, 06:56 PM
OK dude when you have to justified your response by saying you were married to a mixed race girl isn't a good justification of saying your not racist. It's like saying "I'm not racist I got a three black friends!" You make a good point of 75% of the players are black but how many owners are executives are?? Not many! John Elway was a great quarterback turned great executive but I don't see Warren Moon or Randall Cunningham getting any calls! I heard the Dungy interview and agree with him and I see your point. I think the Rooney rule is BS too. Teams already know how they are going to hire, but they have to interview a minority anyway. It's BS!

Is there a website that has a list of former players being offered or turning down jobs I'm not aware of?

maher_tyler
01-31-2013, 06:58 PM
Of course there is. But it's still here because they want to make an issue of it.

Hiring the candidate you want based on whether you like him is not racist. Making an issue of that person not being black is though.

I wonder how racist it would be to see a "whitepeoplemeet.com" TV commercial. I just saw a "blackpeoplemeet.com" one.

Exactly. There's racism because people constantly bring it up. It'd be nice if we as a society could leave it all in the past and move on.

Bigdawg26
01-31-2013, 07:05 PM
Is there a website that has a list of former players being offered or turning down jobs I'm not aware of?

I don't think so. But I do believe that Charlie Strong, Kevin Sumlin, and David Shaw will get alot of looks in the next two seasons from the college level. They have big enough names.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-31-2013, 07:25 PM
I've never met a doctor/med student that got into school or a job because of his race.

Affirmative action says hello. There's plenty of examples of a higher qualified getting the shaft due to another applicants skin color.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CDIQFjABOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritage.org%2Fresearch%2Flec ture%2Frace-preference-in-college-admissions&ei=QTQLUb6VE-2JiwKI2IGICQ&usg=AFQjCNGFQ35R2FgJYvl1BmAzAfsH4dZPtA

It's a long article but this is described under "race preference is bad" section.

UberBroncoMan
01-31-2013, 07:30 PM
The Rooney Rule is racist.

This.

**** like this just ups the whole entitlement mentality.

We're all human. **** this race ****. This isn't the 50's -60's anymore.

errand
01-31-2013, 07:40 PM
Of course there is. But it's still here because they want to make an issue of it.

Hiring the candidate you want based on whether you like him is not racist. Making an issue of that person not being black is though.

I wonder how racist it would be to see a "whitepeoplemeet.com" TV commercial. I just saw a "blackpeoplemeet.com" one.

I saw on a can of doctor pepper that a Hispanic lady won a scholarship.... she wanted to be a judge so she can make an impact in the Hispanic community....

now imagine if a white person had won the scholarship and said the exact same thing about making an impact in the Caucasian community.... you would have white people saying that person was racist

errand
01-31-2013, 07:43 PM
I've never met a doctor/med student that got into school or a job because of his race.

LOL.... You need to get out more often

razorwire77
01-31-2013, 08:24 PM
The league isn't hiring enough white cornerbacks. Clearly the "David Duke" rule isn't working.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HNlSwOnxhUA/T3Ep3C7DdXI/AAAAAAAABlE/SDKK88xtZJU/s320/tony+lilly.jpghttp://denverbroncosalumni.org/images/player_photos/Tony_Lilly.jpg

That's racist.

Archer81
01-31-2013, 08:53 PM
The rooney rule is completely stupid. But like all things regarding race in the US, it is easier to disregard the person's ability and hire them simply because of what color they happen to be to avoid being called racist then get the best person for the job.

:Broncos:

GoBroncos DownUnder
01-31-2013, 10:49 PM
Could it be considered "racist" if I wasn't considered a "minority candidate" under the Rooney Rule?
I am from Australia, and there are only 3 of my people in the NFL!

Bacchus
01-31-2013, 10:54 PM
The Rooney Rule has been great for the NFL. Not only has it opened owners up to hiring black coaches it has given these coaches a chance to go through the interview process more and become more polished.

The big reason why there are not any black hirings today is because there are no black coaches calling the plays for their team. The league is hiring offensive coordinators and these people need to call their plays.

The Rooney rule is great.

ThirtyDegrees
01-31-2013, 11:28 PM
It's a business. Teams should be able to hire anyone they want and not forced to interview any potential canidates.

Why are you acting as if this is somehow a government intervention? The league is a business, and it has made a business decision to force its constituent teams to follow the Rooney Rule.

ol#7
02-01-2013, 12:58 AM
The Rooney Rule has been great for the NFL. Not only has it opened owners up to hiring black coaches it has given these coaches a chance to go through the interview process more and become more polished.

The big reason why there are not any black hirings today is because there are no black coaches calling the plays for their team. The league is hiring offensive coordinators and these people need to call their plays.

The Rooney rule is great.

How is any of that "Great for the NFL?"

Maybe good for the guys who get an interview, but most of those guys are already on the short list as potential HC candidates anyway. Forcing someone to interview them however furthers no cause.

bowtown
02-01-2013, 03:33 AM
Could it be considered "racist" if I wasn't considered a "minority candidate" under the Rooney Rule?
I am from Australia, and there are only 3 of my people in the NFL!

Australians aren't a race.

Bronco X
02-01-2013, 03:53 AM
Re: Whitepeoplemeet and Hispanic judge comments: Those are classic examples of the majority not grasping what it's like being a minority.

Whites have been the majority in this country for a very long time and even today with some notable exceptions of course, white people have had a monopoly on positions of power and influence.

You walk into any public space and see other white people. It's not an issue for you. You don't need a website and if you think you do, yeah you are likely just a bit racist. I can sometimes go weeks without seeing someone of my background who I'm not related to. It doesn't bother me, but I can tell you there is a connection when I do encounter someone. I wouldn't be motivated to find a website but I can understand why people would, and it's not racist. It'd be the same thing if a white American were living in an Asian country, for example. I guarantee if you'd been living there some time and suddenly encountered another white American in a store, you'd probably be more inclined to go talk to that person than you would a random Asian stranger, and that wouldn't be racist.

There is no profession in this country a white person can't aspire to without feeling they have to break down walls because of their race. There are many such professions for anyone of just about any other race. So that's why the Hispanic judge wants to make an impact in her community by virtue of her becoming a judge. Simply not an issue for a white person.

Yeah, there's a "race card" that gets gratuitously played. But make no mistake about it, peeps, there's a "race card card" that gets played just as gratuitously, more often (just look at this here fine thread), and it rarely gets called out.

BroncoBeavis
02-01-2013, 04:44 AM
It'd be the same thing if a white American were living in an Asian country, for example. I guarantee if you'd been living there some time and suddenly encountered another <s>white</s> American in a store, you'd probably be more inclined to go talk to that person than you would a random Asian stranger

FIFY

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2013, 04:53 AM
I've lived in Asia for over 5 years now and if I see another American/white person I usually try to avoid them much more than I would a local. What now?

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 04:59 AM
Re: Whitepeoplemeet and Hispanic judge comments: Those are classic examples of the majority not grasping what it's like being a minority.

That post was written by a black guy.

I'll go get you a napkin for that egg on your face.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-01-2013, 05:46 AM
Australians aren't a race.

I never said anything about my racial background.
I was referring to being an immigrant from another country, would I be considered a "minority" by the NFL's Rooney Rule?

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 06:04 AM
How is any of that "Great for the NFL?"

Maybe good for the guys who get an interview, but most of those guys are already on the short list as potential HC candidates anyway. Forcing someone to interview them however furthers no cause.

You, and everyone else who questions the Rooney Rule, (other than the obvious racists) need to educate yourselves on basic psychology.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/business/employers-increasingly-rely-on-internal-referrals-in-hiring.html?hp&_r=0

"People tend to recommend people much like themselves, economists say, a phenomenon known as assortative matching. Mr. Topa’s study for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that 63.5 percent of employees recommended candidates of the same sex, while 71.5 percent favored the same race or ethnicity."

---------------------------

The problem is that white coaches not only have better networks than black coaches, the overwhelming whiteness of NFL front offices means that they naturally select for people like them. This can be done without any conscious racism whatsoever.

Mediocre, and sometimes even terrible, white coaches participate in a carousel of job interviews before and after they are fired or otherwise prove themselves incapable of a job.

Meanwhile, black coaches of the same talent level are overlooked because they lack the same connections as white coaches.

Here's a pertinent example, our head coach is one of the mediocre to terrible failures that was able to slide into a new job based upon his connections.

Despite leading his team to the worst record in football in 2010, John Fox was able to slot himself right into a new job.

Meanwhile, Lovie Smith, a coach with a resume almost identical to John Fox's (except he won ten games in his last season before being fired instead of two) has yet to find a job at all.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 06:08 AM
The problem is that white coaches not only have better networks than black coaches, the overwhelming whiteness of NFL front offices means that they naturally select for people like them. This can be done without any conscious racism whatsoever.

You're probably onto something... These guys all hired white coaches. Must be racists.

Martin Mayhew - Detroit Lions
Jerry Reese - New York Giants
Ozzie Newsome - Baltimore Ravens
Rick Smith - Houston Texans
Reggie McKenzie-Oakland Raiders

and Rod Graves-Arizona Cardinals until his and Whiz's firing

Bronco X
02-01-2013, 06:19 AM
That post was written by a black guy.

I'll go get you a napkin for that egg on your face.

No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 06:21 AM
You're probably onto something... These guys all hired white coaches. Must be racists.

Martin Mayhew - Detroit Lions
Jerry Reese - New York Giants
Ozzie Newsome - Baltimore Ravens
Rick Smith - Houston Texans
Reggie McKenzie-Oakland Raiders

and Rod Graves-Arizona Cardinals until his and Whiz's firing

What the **** are you babbling about? Learn to ****ing read. The statistic was that 71.5% of people select for people of their own race and over 60% select for people of their own gender when making recommendations.

Again, white coaches have more connections in general and white men make up most of the coaching and executive positions in the NFL.

Does it shock me that Rick Smith hired a white guy that he just happened to know from his time with the Broncos to coach the Texans? Not at all.

However, the Rooney Rule allowed for at least one minority coaching candidate to interview with the Texans and gain experience and connections that he didn't have that Gary Kubiak did and was able to leverage into his position.

I'm just going to come down on the side that you're just a flat out racist.

Edit: Also Jerry Reese wasn't even general manager when Tom Coughlin was hired you racist moron.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 06:28 AM
What the **** are you babbling about? Learn to ****ing read. The statistic was that 71.5% of people select for people of their own race and over 60% select for people of their own gender when making recommendations.

Odd that EVERY black general manager hired white coaches, then?

Almost like your statistic doesn't apply because a GM will ultimately be evaluated on how his TEAM performs regardless of associated races within and will hire the MOST QUALIFIED MAN FOR THE JOB.

Again, white coaches have more connections in general and white men make up most of the coaching and executive positions in the NFL.

Does it shock me that Rick Smith hired a white guy that he just happened to know from his time with the Broncos to coach the Texans? Not at all.

However, the Rooney Rule allowed for at least one minority coaching candidate to interview with the Texans and gain experience and connections that he didn't have that Gary Kubiak did and was able to leverage into his position.

I'm just going to come down on the side that you're just a flat out racist.

Edit: Also Jerry Reese wasn't even general manager when Tom Coughlin was hired you racist moron.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Clinging to race crutches instead of equality is the real racism. Bigot.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 06:31 AM
No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.

This is a fair point, but your statement was that "uninformed perspective" was due to not knowing what it felt like to be a minority.

...but he is a minority.

2KBack
02-01-2013, 06:33 AM
No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.

I believe the specific statement was that the opinion meant they did not grasp what it is like to be a minority. Essentially claiming that a black guy didn't understand the minority perspective.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 06:34 AM
No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.

So the black man is uninformed on what it is like to be a minority?

I don't really have a problem if Black people want to date other Black people. They have a similar service for farmers which I think illustrates it is more cultural than racial. However his post was asking what the reaction would be to a whitepeoplemeet.com, suggesting it would be a negative reaction. Collectively there are more minorities in the US than white people and it's continuing to trend that way. Eventually a site like that could exist and the response would be "that's waycist."

The Rooney rule is a stupid one. It is designed to give more interviews to minority candidates, but fails to take into account that these coaching decisions are merit-based and front offices put together their short list of candidates based on the style and system they run - not skin color. So all you get is a "fake" interviews with minority coaches which wastes the time of both.

BroncoInferno
02-01-2013, 06:35 AM
I don't think there's any intentional racism going on, but I think there is something to the "hiring who you know" theory. The problem is that there isn't a big enough pool of black assistant coaches in the league to begin with. So, the only obvious black candidates for HC jobs this past offseason were retreads like Lovie Smith and Jim Caldwell. If the league wants more diversity in the head coaching ranks, they need to start by looking at the assistant level. I've read in couple of places the idea of the league starting a program for former minority players who have an interest in coaching. Every team has a number of "quality control" coaches, so players in that program could be placed in such roles as kind of an internship. If they continue to show interest and aptitude, now they have their foot in the door and a better chance of advancing up the ladder. Something like this would work better than forcing teams to conduct a token interview from a limited pool of candidates. The limited pool is the problem.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 06:36 AM
Odd that EVERY black general manager hired white coaches, then?

Almost like your statistic doesn't apply because a GM will ultimately be evaluated on how his TEAM performs regardless of associated races within and will hire the MOST QUALIFIED MAN FOR THE JOB.

Oh okay, so you moonlight as an idiot with no understanding of basic statistics. Do you understand what a sample size is?

However, aside from that, what you still don't seem to grasp is that white coaches are more likely to have their names referred to GMs of any race as potential head coaching hires because they have more connections than minority candidates do.

As to your second point, NFL GMs don't always hire the best man for the job, they hire who *they believe to be* the best man for the job. This is clouded by the basic psychological fact that people tend to select for people that are like them, ie white guys choose white guys.

I'm positive that Randy Mueller thought he was hiring the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB in 2006 when he hired Cam Cameron over Mike Tomlin. He clearly didn't hire the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB, the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB was hired by the Pittsburgh Steelers who have an owner that consciously chose to take actions to expose himself and his organization to a diverse pool of candidates.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 06:39 AM
I'll reiterate this point one last time because clearly someone like ThirtyDegrees is projecting very personal experiences to this situation and people's comments within it:

If people hire what they associate with, why are black GMs hiring exclusively white coaches?

Could it possibly be--when examined on an individual basis--they hired the guy they felt was best suited for the job without any regard to skin color? Because, quite frankly, THEIR jobs and the well being of their family are on the line? Because it's a decision where ultimately hundreds of millions of dollars are on the line?

Na, couldn't be. They must be Clayton Bigsbys.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 06:42 AM
Oh okay, so you moonlight as an idiot with no understanding of basic statistics. Do you understand what a sample size is?

However, aside from that, what you still don't seem to grasp is that white coaches are more likely to have their names referred to GMs of any race as potential head coaching hires because they have more connections than minority candidates do.

As to your second point, NFL GMs don't always hire the best man for the job, they hire who *they believe to be* the best man for the job. This is clouded by the basic psychological fact that people tend to select for people that are like them, ie white guys choose white guys.

I'm positive that Randy Mueller thought he was hiring the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB in 2006 when he hired Cam Cameron over Mike Tomlin. He clearly didn't hire the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB, the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB was hired by the Pittsburgh Steelers who have an owner that consciously chose to take actions to expose himself and his organization to a diverse pool of candidates.

:rofl:

Keep dodging reality.

Here's some stats for you:

100% of black head coaches have been hired by white GMs
0% of black head coaches have been hired by black GMs

You racist.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 06:53 AM
I don't think there's any intentional racism going on, but I think there is something to the "hiring who you know" theory. The problem is that there isn't a big enough pool of black assistant coaches in the league to begin with. So, the only obvious black candidates for HC jobs this past offseason were retreads like Lovie Smith and Jim Caldwell. If the league wants more diversity in the head coaching ranks, they need to start by looking at the assistant level. I've read in couple of places the idea of the league starting a program for former minority players who have an interest in coaching. Every team has a number of "quality control" coaches, so players in that program could be placed in such roles as kind of an internship. If they continue to show interest and aptitude, now they have their foot in the door and a better chance of advancing up the ladder. Something like this would work better than forcing teams to conduct a token interview from a limited pool of candidates. The limited pool is the problem.

I fully agree with this, but I think the NFL already does a really good job at it.

Remember the trajectory of Raheem Morris' career? He went from quality control to position coach, skipped coordinating altogether and became a head coach in the blink of an eye. Tampa's GM (a white guy) saw something special in him and took a shot. He ended up being wrong (or maybe just too early), but he took a shot.

Leslie Frazier's career was shot out of a cannon too, etc etc etc

Mike Zimmer with the Bengals has DRAGGED that team to the post season several times in recent years, has been coaching in the NFL for nearly two decades, excelled in every position, and has been a "hot coaching candidate" for several years now... still in Cinci. Must be race related? ...or his vision that he's sharing in interviews isn't up to snuff. I'll bet on the latter.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 06:54 AM
I'll reiterate this point one last time because clearly someone like ThirtyDegrees is projecting very personal experiences to this situation and people's comments within it:

If people hire what they associate with, why are black GMs hiring exclusively white coaches?

Could it possibly be--when examined on an individual basis--they hired the guy they felt was best suited for the job without any regard to skin color? Because, quite frankly, THEIR jobs and the well being of their family are on the line? Because it's a decision where ultimately hundreds of millions of dollars are on the line?

Na, couldn't be. They must be Clayton Bigsbys.

No, it's because you are a ****ing moron who can't read.

People are *more likely* to recommend or hire candidates that are more like them. It isn't a binary process. The statistics that I've quoted you multiple times bear that out. People are much more likely (to the tune of 71.5%) to recommend people of the same race for job openings.

Futhermore, white coaches are more likely to have the kinds of connections and reputations that allow them to be referred for positions than minority coaches are.

Just because a team has a black GM does not mean that every person able to weigh in on a hiring decision is black. Even teams with black GMs almost certainly have overwhelmingly white front offices as a whole. So those black GMs are being given information that is potentially skewed by ingrained biases of people who select for those that are like them.

I have not stated that any conscious racism is at play from NFL executives. This kind of racially based selection and bias is not a choice, it's part of a flawed thought process that people of every race exhibit.

What the Rooney Rule (and other explicit parameters that try to diversify a candidate pool) does, if used properly, is to expose executives to a wider pool of candidates and allow them to make better decisions than they otherwise would.

The only person that I have called a racist is you, because you're insinuation is that the best black head coach available on the planet is not as good as the revolving door of mediocre white guys that NFL teams so regularly hire after their teams finish 2-14 or 4-12.

You continue to act as if the GMs that routinely make the decision to flout the Rooney Rule to hire their predetermined white coaches that then do terrible jobs are actually making the correct decisions.

Point of fact, the teams that decide upon "their guy" (inevitably a white guy) and ignore the Rooney Rule to hire retread white coaches almost always make stupid mistakes.

The idea that the Shanahans, Reids, Foxs, Manginis, and Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coach available on the planet is asinine, and the teams that make these decisions almost always pay for them.

If these GMs actually used the Rooney Rule for what it was there for, maybe they'd be competent at their jobs.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 06:57 AM
Thirty Degrees, are you a minority?

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 06:59 AM
Thirty Degrees, are you a minority?

Not that it's remotely relevant, but nope I'm as lily white as they come.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 07:03 AM
No, it's because you are a ****ing moron who can't read.

People are *more likely* to recommend or hire candidates that are more like them. It isn't a binary process. The statistics that I've quoted you multiple times bear that out. People are much more likely (to the tune of 71.5%) to recommend people of the same race for job openings.

Futhermore, white coaches are more likely to have the kinds of connections and reputations that allow them to be referred for positions than minority coaches are.

Just because a team has a black GM does not mean that every person able to weigh in on a hiring decision is black. Even teams with black GMs almost certainly have overwhelmingly white front offices as a whole. So those black GMs are being given information that is potentially skewed by ingrained biases of people who select for those that are like them.

I have not stated that any conscious racism is at play from NFL executives. This kind of racially based selection and bias is not a choice, it's part of a flawed thought process that people of every race exhibit.

What the Rooney Rule (and other explicit parameters that try to diversify a candidate pool) does, if used properly, is to expose executives to a wider pool of candidates and allow them to make better decisions than they otherwise would.

The only person that I have called a racist is you, because you're insinuation is that the best black head coach available on the planet is not as good as the revolving door of mediocre white guys that NFL teams so regularly hire after their teams finish 2-14 or 4-12.

You continue to act as if the GMs that routinely make the decision to flout the Rooney Rule to hire their predetermined white coaches that then do terrible jobs are actually making the correct decisions.

Point of fact, the teams that decide upon "their guy" (inevitably a white guy) and ignore the Rooney Rule to hire retread white coaches almost always make stupid mistakes.

The idea that the Shanahans, Reids, Foxs, Manginis, and Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coach available on the planet is asinine, and the teams that make these decisions almost always pay for them.

If these GMs actually used the Rooney Rule for what it was there for, maybe they'd be competent at their jobs.

You are out of your ****ing mind.

...And, for the record, the Shanahan, Reid, Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coaches available... and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY (here comes that pesky old equality thing that you keep dodging again) better than the best WHITE coaches available. Their track records kind of bear that out, kiddo.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 07:07 AM
You are out of your ****ing mind.

...And, for the record, the Shanahan, Reid, Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coaches available... and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY (here comes that pesky old equality thing that you keep dodging again) better than the best WHITE coaches available. Their track records kind of bear that out, kiddo.

I bet the Redskins are really glad they hired an overrated loser who rode Steve Young and John Elway's coattails after he ruined RGIII's career this year in a cynical attempt to win a playoff game to protect his job security.

Jeff Fisher is nothing special, I will guarantee right now that the Chiefs will never amount to anything under Andy Reid.

You forgot to mention that our current coach parachuted into his position after finishing 2-14 and giving his team the first overall pick.

Meanwhile he's been a disgrace and the team has won in spite of his decision making.

If John Fox were named Juan Fox or Jerome Fox he wouldn't be an NFL head coach right now and the proof is that Jim Caldwell and Lovie Smith haven't been rehired as NFL coaches despite having the exact same qualifications that John Fox has.

BroncoInferno
02-01-2013, 07:10 AM
I fully agree with this, but I think the NFL already does a really good job at it.

Remember the trajectory of Raheem Morris' career? He went from quality control to position coach, skipped coordinating altogether and became a head coach in the blink of an eye. Tampa's GM (a white guy) saw something special in him and took a shot. He ended up being wrong (or maybe just too early), but he took a shot.

Leslie Frazier's career was shot out of a cannon too, etc etc etc

Mike Zimmer with the Bengals has DRAGGED that team to the post season several times in recent years, has been coaching in the NFL for nearly two decades, excelled in every position, and has been a "hot coaching candidate" for several years now... still in Cinci. Must be race related? ...or his vision that he's sharing in interviews isn't up to snuff. I'll bet on the latter.

Frazier and Morris are perfect examples of how a structured program for former minority players could lead to fast rising coaching careers. Surely, among the ranks of former minority NFL players, there are a number of potential Morris' and Frazier's who simply lack the proper connections and just need an opportunity to get their foot in the door.

You are out of your ****ing mind.

...And, for the record, the Shanahan, Reid, Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coaches available... and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY (here comes that pesky old equality thing that you keep dodging again) better than the best WHITE coaches available. Their track records kind of bear that out, kiddo.

Yeah, he could have forwarded his argument better if he would have mentioned guys like Norv Turner, Chan Gailey and Mike Mularkey (i.e. white coaches who have been failures as an HC multiple times).

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 07:16 AM
Frazier and Morris are perfect examples of how a structured program for former minority players could lead to fast rising coaching careers. Surely, among the ranks of former minority NFL players, there are a number of potential Morris' and Frazier's without the proper connections who simply need an opportunity to get their foot in the door.

I think that opportunity already exists. A lot of players (regardless of race) don't become coaches because they see how demanding the job is while they're playing.

There's an annual article about Rod Smith working with the receivers and whatever coaching staff is current telling him he's got a position, etc.

Al Harris just signed on with Kansas City to coach.

Yeah, he could have forwarded his argument better if he would have mentioned guys like Norv Turner, Chan Gailey and Mike Mularkey (i.e. white coaches who have been failures as an HC multiple times).

You should note that from your examples, Buddy Nix is the only one who's retained his job and is currently treading on very thin ice in Buffalo.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 07:19 AM
I bet the Redskins are really glad they hired an overrated loser who rode Steve Young and John Elway's coattails after he ruined RGIII's career this year in a cynical attempt to win a playoff game to protect his job security.

Welp, that puts any questions about your intelligence level to bed.

Enjoy drooling in your oatmeal. :thumbs:

Bacchus
02-01-2013, 07:22 AM
What the **** are you babbling about? Learn to ****ing read. The statistic was that 71.5% of people select for people of their own race and over 60% select for people of their own gender when making recommendations.

Again, white coaches have more connections in general and white men make up most of the coaching and executive positions in the NFL.

Does it shock me that Rick Smith hired a white guy that he just happened to know from his time with the Broncos to coach the Texans? Not at all.

However, the Rooney Rule allowed for at least one minority coaching candidate to interview with the Texans and gain experience and connections that he didn't have that Gary Kubiak did and was able to leverage into his position.

I'm just going to come down on the side that you're just a flat out racist.

Edit: Also Jerry Reese wasn't even general manager when Tom Coughlin was hired you racist moron.


You of course are 100% correct.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 07:46 AM
Welp, that puts any questions about your intelligence level to bed.

Enjoy drooling in your oatmeal. :thumbs:

If you still think that Shanahan is anything other than an average coach who struck gold with the positions he fell into in San Francisco and Denver then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

Unless of course you're going to tell me that no minority coach would have been smart enough to spend draft picks on Marcus Nash, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, and Jarvis Moss.

People make a huge deal out of McDaniels' first draft and how terrible it was when Shanahan had literally half a dozen drafts that were just as terrible.

Shanahan let the defense atrophy for years until it eventually bottomed out into the black hole that was the McDaniels' era defense.

Then he went to Washington where he's done a piss poor job until he had the best quarterback talent in a decade fall into his lap. Shanahan proved his genius by allowing RGIII to suffer a catastrophic and potentially career altering injury in an attempt to win a meaningless playoff game.

Mindsets like yours are precisely the problem.

If it had been up to a moron like you, you'd hire Shanahan over superior coaches such as Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy, and you'd be an idiot for doing so.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 08:00 AM
If you still think that Shanahan is anything other than an average coach who struck gold with the positions he fell into in San Francisco and Denver then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

That must be why multiple HoF QBs personally thanked HIM in their inductions

Or why a coach like Belichick (and many more) refers to him as the hardest coach to prepare for

Or why he was one of the most sought after commodities in the coaching market when he was available.

Or why he managed to coach a team through a littany of injuries with a rookie QB to the playoffs in one of the most competitive divisions in football this year (taking the division title away from the SB champs).

Etc.

Unless of course you're going to tell me that no minority coach would have been smart enough to spend draft picks on Marcus Nash, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, and Jarvis Moss.

People make a huge deal out of McDaniels' first draft and how terrible it was when Shanahan had literally half a dozen drafts that were just as terrible.

Shanahan let the defense atrophy for years until it eventually bottomed out into the black hole that was the McDaniels' era defense.

Then he went to Washington where he's done a piss poor job until he had the best quarterback talent in a decade fall into his lap. Shanahan proved his genius by allowing RGIII to suffer a catastrophic and potentially career altering injury in an attempt to win a meaningless playoff game.

Clearly you don't watch football, but FYI, they had to make a big trade to get RGIII. Certainly no "lap falling".

Mindsets like yours are precisely the problem.

If it had been up to a moron like you, you'd hire Shanahan over superior coaches such as Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy, and you'd be an idiot for doing so.

I would say a mindset like yours that accepts no responsibility and instead blames "the institution" is precisely the problem.

But again, you're an idiot. Every word you speak bears this out.

OABB
02-01-2013, 08:14 AM
If this were a game of who could cook the best fried chicken there would be more black coaches.

Archer81
02-01-2013, 08:15 AM
If you still think that Shanahan is anything other than an average coach who struck gold with the positions he fell into in San Francisco and Denver then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

Unless of course you're going to tell me that no minority coach would have been smart enough to spend draft picks on Marcus Nash, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, and Jarvis Moss.

People make a huge deal out of McDaniels' first draft and how terrible it was when Shanahan had literally half a dozen drafts that were just as terrible.

Shanahan let the defense atrophy for years until it eventually bottomed out into the black hole that was the McDaniels' era defense.

Then he went to Washington where he's done a piss poor job until he had the best quarterback talent in a decade fall into his lap. Shanahan proved his genius by allowing RGIII to suffer a catastrophic and potentially career altering injury in an attempt to win a meaningless playoff game.

Mindsets like yours are precisely the problem.

If it had been up to a moron like you, you'd hire Shanahan over superior coaches such as Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy, and you'd be an idiot for doing so.


That sir, is racist.


:Broncos:

Requiem
02-01-2013, 08:15 AM
If this were a game of who could cook the best fried chicken there would be more black coaches.

I'm white and make awesome fried chicken. :)

OABB
02-01-2013, 08:17 AM
I'm white and make awesome fried chicken. :)

Racist.

Archer81
02-01-2013, 08:17 AM
Sometimes fried chicken is awesome. Then you get some from KFC and you end up dying inside.


:Broncos:

Requiem
02-01-2013, 08:21 AM
Sometimes fried chicken is awesome. Then you get some from KFC and you end up dying inside.


:Broncos:

I always used to be fascinated with the skin/crisp from KFC. It used to taste so awesome to me. I would literally take all the breasts and rip off the skin and eat them before anyone else in my family could have it. Then again, I always used to eat the crisp out of the pan after my grandma would fry us up chicken for dinner too.

I ate KFC for a whole week for free because Oprah ended up putting out tickets online when they came out with the grilled chicken creations back in like 2009/10. Worst decision of my life. I think I spent about 18 hours on the toilet in a whole week and gained about 12 pounds. :)

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-01-2013, 08:21 AM
GMs hire who they think will lead their team. The best possible candidate for them. Too bad there are more Rahim Morris's and singletarys than Tomlins and fraziers. There's a reason Fewell doesn't get hired and its not his color.

There's not enough of them not because they are being smothered by the white man. It's cause there's not many that even want to get into coaching. Trying to say black GMs won't hire a black guy cause he's in a room full of whites is asinine. He's not worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong color, he's worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong coach.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 08:23 AM
GMs hire who they think will lead their team. The best possible candidate for them. Too bad there are more Rahim Morris's and singletarys than Tomlins and fraziers. There's a reason Fewell doesn't get hired and its not his color.

There's not enough of them not because they are being smothered by the white man. It's cause there's not many that even want to get into coaching. Trying to say black GMs won't hire a black guy cause he's in a room full of whites is asinine. He's not worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong color, he's worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong coach.

It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

Archer81
02-01-2013, 08:25 AM
I always used to be fascinated with the skin/crisp from KFC. It used to taste so awesome to me. I would literally take all the breasts and rip off the skin and eat them before anyone else in my family could have it. Then again, I always used to eat the crisp out of the pan after my grandma would fry us up chicken for dinner too.

I ate KFC for a whole week for free because Oprah ended up putting out tickets online when they came out with the grilled chicken creations back in like 2009/10. Worst decision of my life. I think I spent about 18 hours on the toilet in a whole week and gained about 12 pounds. :)


Well frying something is scientifically proven to make it better. Who else would eat greenbeans otherwise? But still...KFC is of the devil. Only explanation. You know beforehand it wont end well. You know during it wont end well. You know after that it will not end well. Yet we keep buying it.

Why? WHY?

:Broncos:

Requiem
02-01-2013, 08:25 AM
It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3a3n3ZBGF1r5hfkb.gif

Archer81
02-01-2013, 08:27 AM
It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.


Says the person riddled with white guilt.

Tell me, if someone has an opinion outside of what is politically correct, are they racist, sexist or homophobic? Is having an opinion contrary to that of the power's that be that threatening that minimizing them by yelling racist, sexist or homophobe the only recourse?

Grow up, son. Get a rolemodel.


:Broncos:

Requiem
02-01-2013, 08:28 AM
Well frying something is scientifically proven to make it better. Who else would eat greenbeans otherwise? But still...KFC is of the devil. Only explanation. You know beforehand it wont end well. You know during it wont end well. You know after that it will not end well. Yet we keep buying it.

Why? WHY?

:Broncos:

Medicinal Fried Chicken.

http://www.inbb.kz/wp-content/images/Medicinal-Fried-Chicken.jpg

Cause it decreases testicular cancer!

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 08:31 AM
Says the person riddled with white guilt.

Tell me, if someone has an opinion outside of what is politically correct, are they racist, sexist or homophobic? Is having an opinion contrary to that of the power's that be that threatening that minimizing them by yelling racist, sexist or homophobe the only recourse?

Grow up, son. Get a rolemodel.


:Broncos:

I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-01-2013, 08:32 AM
It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

Pretty funny you being white, while clueless on my race. Shows how stupid you really are. I ain't white

Tombstone RJ
02-01-2013, 08:35 AM
I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

I'll take it one step further, heck I'll take all your posts to their logical conclusion, you are tard of the highest order. Does that make me racist too?

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 08:37 AM
Pretty funny you being white, while clueless on my race.


I don't care what race you are. Clarence Thomas is a black skinned white supremacist.

You gave a racist opinion, you're a racist.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 08:39 AM
I'll take it one step further, heck I'll take all your posts to their logical conclusion, you are tard of the highest order. Does that make me racist too?

More than likely, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 08:40 AM
It's nice to know somewhere there is a white guy telling a black guy how he doesn't know anything about being a minority while simultaneously telling everyone else how racist they all are.

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-01-2013, 08:40 AM
I don't care what race you are. Clarence Thomas is a black skinned white supremacist.

You gave a racist opinion, you're a racist.

I gave a true opinion. Too bad you can't see that.

Tell us about how much swag you have in the black community cool guy. What's next, a list of friends names you got that resemble a black people? GTFO

Requiem
02-01-2013, 08:41 AM
Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

Says the misanthrope.

Archer81
02-01-2013, 08:42 AM
I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.


You support a system desgined to at the very least interview coaches of color. This system does not guarantee these coaches have any actual talent at coaching. The bare minimum it requires is a dark skin tone. It goes for quantity, not quality. Which is the problem with anything steeped in affirmative action dogma. Your support for such a rule is why I believe you are awash in white guilt, and the actual racist.

You have argued that GM's hire people "like them". Rev has pointed out black GM's who did not hire black HC's. You decry him as racist.

If you cannot see the logic fail of the rooney rule, then you are not only naive, but blatantly stupid and simply parroting the politically correct position.

:Broncos:

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 08:43 AM
I gave a true opinion. Too bad you can't see that.

Tell us about how much swag you have in the black community cool guy. What's next, a list of friends names you got that resemble a black people? GTFO

Swag on a hundred thousand trillion

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-01-2013, 08:44 AM
You support a system desgined to at the very least interview coaches of color. This system does not guarantee these coaches have any actual talent at coaching. The bare minimum it requires is a dark skin tone. It goes for quantity, not quality. Which is the problem with anything steeped in affirmative action dogma. Your support for such a rule is why I believe you are awash in white guilt, and the actual racist.

You have argued that GM's hire people "like them". Rev has pointed out black GM's who did not hire black HC's. You decry him as racist.

If you cannot see the logic fail of the rooney rule, then you are not only naive, but blatantly stupid and simply parroting the politically correct position.

:Broncos:

This

Boooom. Game over.

Tombstone RJ
02-01-2013, 08:47 AM
More than likely, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I guess I dodged a major bullet there, thanks! ^5

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 08:49 AM
ITT:

An African American poster supports GMs hiring the best man for the job while someone self-described as "lily white" calls him a racist for not calling NFL GMs racist.

Go figure.

Archer81
02-01-2013, 08:50 AM
I need to get ready for work, but I leave thirtydegrees with this:


I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. - MLK

I bid you all adieu, gentlemen (that's not sexist, is it?).

:Broncos:

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 08:51 AM
I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

You're out of your ****ing mind... quote where either of us even remotely IMPLIED such a thing?

broncocalijohn
02-01-2013, 09:25 AM
The NFL owners should just interview snoop dog to fullfill the rule.

Well, he did coach a team to the Super Bowl. Of course that was Pop Warner Football but he still has the skills.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 09:27 AM
I need to get ready for work, but I leave thirtydegrees with this:


I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. - MLK

I bid you all adieu, gentlemen (that's not sexist, is it?).

:Broncos:

Here are some other quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. that you may find interesting.


"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro""

Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."


Please refrain from denigrating the man's legacy by twisting his words to support a discriminatory status quo. He'd be sickened by it.

broncocalijohn
02-01-2013, 09:34 AM
I bet the Redskins are really glad they hired an overrated loser who rode Steve Young and John Elway's coattails after he ruined RGIII's career this year in a cynical attempt to win a playoff game to protect his job security.

Jeff Fisher is nothing special, I will guarantee right now that the Chiefs will never amount to anything under Andy Reid.

You forgot to mention that our current coach parachuted into his position after finishing 2-14 and giving his team the first overall pick.

Meanwhile he's been a disgrace and the team has won in spite of his decision making.

If John Fox were named Juan Fox or Jerome Fox he wouldn't be an NFL head coach right now and the proof is that Jim Caldwell and Lovie Smith haven't been rehired as NFL coaches despite having the exact same qualifications that John Fox has.

I would be very surprised if those two do not find a job within a year. If anything, should they be considered part of the retreads that the NFL seems to go with? I call it the Benefit of the Doubt pick. It is safe as they are a veteran coach and the team feels it must have been other tangibles that made their former team suck eggs. I guess a year in waiting will tell if your opinion holds water. Caldwell had the yo yo two year career with the Colts.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 09:38 AM
Here are some other quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. that you may find interesting.


"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro""

Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."


Please refrain from denigrating the man's legacy by twisting his words to support a discriminatory status quo. He'd be sickened by it.

Please. Twisting a quote? Why don't you post the entire sentence?

A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 09:43 AM
You support a system desgined to at the very least interview coaches of color. This system does not guarantee these coaches have any actual talent at coaching. The bare minimum it requires is a dark skin tone. It goes for quantity, not quality. Which is the problem with anything steeped in affirmative action dogma. Your support for such a rule is why I believe you are awash in white guilt, and the actual racist.

You have argued that GM's hire people "like them". Rev has pointed out black GM's who did not hire black HC's. You decry him as racist.

If you cannot see the logic fail of the rooney rule, then you are not only naive, but blatantly stupid and simply parroting the politically correct position.

:Broncos:

Your implication is that minority candidates are somehow less likely to be qualified than white candidates. Furthermore you imply that coaches that have previously been interviewed under the stipulations of the Rooney Rule were not qualified.

I have argued that GM's are more likely to hire people like them, yes. It's quite different from what you are falsely claiming that I have argued.

Also, unlike anyone else in this thread, I have provided documented and scientific evidence that proves this to be true.

Your argument isn't new, people were saying the same things twenty years ago.

Teams claimed they couldn't find a qualified minority candidate, meanwhile Tony Dungy languished as an assistant coach for fifteen years before he was finally qualified.

Fast forward to 2006, with the implementation of the Rooney Rule, and Mike Tomlin only had to wait five years before he was given a chance to coach an NFL team.

All a team had to do this season to meet the requirements of the Rooney Rule was to interview one of two black men who have coached in a Super Bowl in either Jim Caldwell or Lovie Smith.

The implication that either man is so unqualified for an NFL job as to not merit an interview, when they are better coaches than at least 25% of the currently employed coaches, (including John Fox) is pathetic and racist.

According to you, a coach like Louisville's Charlie Strong, who just coached his team to a blowout win over heavily favored Florida in the Sugar Bowl is completely unqualified as to not even merit an interview from an NFL team.

Strong is 52 and just now got his first chance to lead a major football program.

What do you think the odds are that he would have had to wait until he was 52 if he was white?

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 09:45 AM
Please. Twisting a quote? Why don't you post the entire sentence?

Thankfully the Rooney Rule does just that by allowing minorities to compete on an equal basis.

It doesn't grant them anything other than an opportunity to make their case for employment.

Anyone that thinks this is somehow too much has real problems with race.

Kaylore
02-01-2013, 10:01 AM
Thankfully the Rooney Rule does just that by allowing minorities to compete on an equal basis.

It doesn't grant them anything other than an opportunity to make their case for employment.

Anyone that thinks this is somehow too much has real problems with race.

Here's the problem - it's a total joke. You really think a token interview based purely on skin color has moved things forward?

How about adressing the real problem IE there aren't enough assistant coaches that are minorities? You are the worst kind of racist because you want to allow these types of racist, overly-simplistic policies to continue to exist so you can tell yourself "we're doing something."

More racism doesn't fix racism. It fuels the problem by 1.) continuing to treat a group of people differently based on arbitrary chariteristics and 2.) invites resentment from others not sharing those characteristics who don't get those opportunities.

The black coaches themselves think it's a joke. The people it's supposed to help don't like it. The front offices don't care for it. And its racist.

At the end of the day, the front office is going to hire who they want regardless of race. In a performance driven business they want the best candidate and don't care where they're from. The problem is getting more minorities to put the time in to be assistant coaches.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 10:05 AM
I think ThirtyDegrees has gotten about as racist as someone can get here without going on a "N-word" tangent.

DENVERDUI55
02-01-2013, 10:11 AM
Loop hole in rooney rule it is fulfilled if a team fires an African American HC.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-01-2013, 10:29 AM
Here's the problem - it's a total joke. You really think a token interview based purely on skin color has moved things forward?

How about adressing the real problem IE there aren't enough assistant coaches that are minorities? You are the worst kind of racist because you want to allow these types of racist, overly-simplistic policies to continue to exist so you can tell yourself "we're doing something."

More racism doesn't fix racism. It fuels the problem by 1.) continuing to treat a group of people differently based on arbitrary chariteristics and 2.) invites resentment from others not sharing those characteristics who don't get those opportunities.

The black coaches themselves think it's a joke. The people it's supposed to help don't like it. The front offices don't care for it. And its racist.

At the end of the day, the front office is going to hire who they want regardless of race. In a performance driven business they want the best candidate and don't care where they're from. The problem is getting more minorities to put the time in to be assistant coaches.

I agree. Though i think the one thing the Rooney Rule has done is allow minority candidates to impress in an interview, regardless if that team hires them or not. That can only help their cause for future jobs.

Agamemnon
02-01-2013, 10:29 AM
This whole topic is idiotic. Making racist rules will never get rid of racism. Ultimately it's just going to take time. Just look at the QB position. It's not the all white guy club it used to be, and that didn't happen because of some rule that made teams draft black quarterbacks.

By the way are Ozzie Newsome and Reggie McKenzie racist against black head coaches too? They both hired white guys after all.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 10:41 AM
Here's the problem - it's a total joke. You really think a token interview based purely on skin color has moved things forward?

Yes, I do. It's a fact. From 1921-2003 there only were seven minority head coaches hired by NFL/AFL franchises. Since 2003 NFL teams have hired eight minority head coaches. In the ten years since the rule's inception there have been more minority head coaches hired by NFL teams than there were in the previous 80 years combined.


How about adressing the real problem IE there aren't enough assistant coaches that are minorities? You are the worst kind of racist because you want to allow these types of racist, overly-simplistic policies to continue to exist so you can tell yourself "we're doing something."

I support the extension of the Rooney Rule to include assistant coaching positions, so does Tony Dungy and many others who seek to make the rule have a more significant impact.

I fail to see how one could place more minority assistant coaches without using a similar system. What are you proposing to do something substantial if you find the Rooney Rule so anathema?

More racism doesn't fix racism. It fuels the problem by 1.) continuing to treat a group of people differently based on arbitrary chariteristics and 2.) invites resentment from others not sharing those characteristics who don't get those opportunities.

The Rooney Rule isn't racist. It simply acknowledges the fact that people are not color blind and that race plays a role in their decision making process, whether it is on a conscious level or not. Again, it is a provable fact that people are more likely to prefer candidates that are racially similar to them.

The Rooney Rule simply helps to level the playing field and allow minority candidates a fair opportunity. Nothing more.

The black coaches themselves think it's a joke.The people it's supposed to help don't like it.

Which black coaches think the rule is "a joke" on principle? Provide evidence for these assertions.



At the end of the day, the front office is going to hire who they want regardless of race. In a performance driven business they want the best candidate and don't care where they're from.

Who is disputing this? The point that you cannot seem to grasp is that the reasoning that front offices use to find the best candidate is fundamentally flawed. Qualified candidates are overlooked, like Tony Dungy was for fifteen years before he was hired by the Buccaneers.

The Miami Dolphins decided that Cam Cameron was a better candidate than Mike Tomlin in 2007. The Dolphins went 1-15 (then tied for the NFL worst mark) and the Steelers hired Tomlin and won a Super Bowl


The problem is getting more minorities to put the time in to be assistant coaches.

This is a racist statement. Thank you for proving my point with your bullsh*t about "lazy minorities."

There are numerous minority position and assistant coaches in both college and the NFL. The problem is that they don't get the chance for promotion that white coaches do and they don't have the same connections that white coaches do.

More than that, minority coaches don't get the same chances to learn on the job and fail before parachuting into a new job like white coaches do.

Agamemnon
02-01-2013, 10:48 AM
Yes, I do. It's a fact. From 1921-2003 there only were seven minority head coaches hired by NFL/AFL franchises. Since 2003 NFL teams have hired eight minority head coaches. In the ten years since the rule's inception there have been more minority head coaches hired by NFL teams than there were in the previous 80 years combined.


In that same time you'll probably find that there has been a marked rise in black CEO's. In that time we've seen the first black president elected. You seem to be assuming that it is the Rooney rule and not a general shift in our society that is the cause. That's a pretty big assumption.

ludo21
02-01-2013, 10:53 AM
no tomlin went to an already good team and won the superbowl and cameron went to a crapper and sucked...

shocking

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 10:54 AM
In that same time you'll probably find that there has been a marked rise in black CEO's. In that time we've seen the first black president elected. You seem to be assuming that it is the Rooney rule and not a general shift in our society that is the cause. That's a pretty big assumption.

Corporate executive boards are not representative of the diversity of the American population at large.

The United States Senate just now for the first time in its history has two black members at the same time. Two, out of 100. Those two men were both appointed by the way.

American society has a long way to go before it reaches racial equality and the accomplishments of one extraordinary black man in the White House hasn't wiped that away.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 10:55 AM
no tomlin went to an already good team and won the superbowl and cameron went to a crapper and sucked...

shocking

Feel free to assert that Cam Cameron, recently fired Ravens offensive coordinator is a capable NFL coach.

Meanwhile a guy that many in this thread have implied isn't qualified for an interview took over for Cameron and immediately improved the Ravens offense, including coaching them to a blowout of the highest paid defense in the league in Denver a couple weeks ago.

Agamemnon
02-01-2013, 11:00 AM
Corporate executive boards are not representative of the diversity of the American population at large.

The United States Senate just now for the first time in its history has two black members at the same time. Two, out of 100. Those two men were both appointed by the way.

American society has a long way to go before it reaches racial equality and the accomplishments of one extraordinary black man in the White House hasn't wiped that away.

You completely missed my point. You are assuming a correlation is causal. It's a common mistake made by intellectually lazy people who have an agenda.

Agamemnon
02-01-2013, 11:03 AM
Feel free to assert that Cam Cameron, recently fired Ravens offensive coordinator is a capable NFL coach.

Meanwhile a guy that many in this thread have implied isn't qualified for an interview took over for Cameron and immediately improved the Ravens offense, including coaching them to a blowout of the highest paid defense in the league in Denver a couple weeks ago.

And Mike Singletary **** the bed. Seriously dude, your laughably simplistic takes on the matter hurt my head. There's a lot that goes into hiring a head coach and many teams make the wrong choice all the time. Just because a team doesn't hire a black head coach doesn't mean there is racism involved.

Requiem
02-01-2013, 11:06 AM
http://www.americanproject.tv/storage/t8zrasr0.jpeg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=133113207 2086

myMind
02-01-2013, 11:07 AM
Is this racist?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SACL6SI7OlQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 11:08 AM
And Mike Singletary **** the bed. Seriously dude, your laughably simplistic takes on the matter hurt my head. There's a lot that goes into hiring a head coach and many teams make the wrong choice all the time. Just because a team doesn't hire a black head coach doesn't mean there is racism involved.

Another person with moron level reading comprehension. Noted.

Play2win
02-01-2013, 12:43 PM
Rap Sucks.

That is all... Hilarious!

jerseyboiler120
02-01-2013, 03:55 PM
We will never achieve equality when some parts of society are granted extra advantages and benefits. People as a whole are far less motivated, creative, and hard-working than they were in years past due to an over-developed sense of entitlements and expectations of what's owed to them.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 03:59 PM
We will never achieve equality when some parts of society are granted extra advantages and benefits.

Just to be clear, you're talking about white people right?

Houshyamama
02-01-2013, 04:19 PM
As of 2011, 13.1% of America was black.

In 2012, 22% of NFL head coaches were black.

I don't see a problem.

According to those statistics, black head coaches are now over-represented, if anything.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 04:23 PM
As of 2011, 13.1% of America was black.

In 2012, 22% of NFL head coaches were black.

I don't see a problem.

According to those statistics, black head coaches are now over-represented, if anything.

LOL, you might want to reexamine your parameters there homie.

What percentage of NFL players are black?

Houshyamama
02-01-2013, 04:24 PM
LOL, you might want to reexamine your parameters there homie.

What percentage of NFL players are black?

Black NFL players are the only Americans interested in being an NFL coach?

BTW, your patronizing tone is grating and annoying.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 04:26 PM
Black NFL players are the only Americans interested in being an NFL coach?

BTW, your patronizing tone is grating and annoying.

Oh, I'm really sorry if I've made the white privilege echo chamber here feel somewhat uncomfortable.

Houshyamama
02-01-2013, 04:28 PM
Oh, I'm really sorry if I've made the white privilege echo chamber here feel somewhat uncomfortable.

Answer the question. Nobody cares how good your self-righteous diatribes make you feel.

ThirtyDegrees
02-01-2013, 04:31 PM
Answer the question. Nobody cares how good your self-righteous diatribes make you feel.

What question, your stupid question? The obvious answer is no.

Houshyamama
02-01-2013, 04:33 PM
What question, your stupid question? The obvious answer is no.

:kiss:

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 04:49 PM
Oh, I'm really sorry if I've made the white privilege echo chamber here feel somewhat uncomfortable.

You've got some real issues, man.

DENVERDUI55
02-01-2013, 05:02 PM
As of 2011, 13.1% of America was black.

In 2012, 22% of NFL head coaches were black.

I don't see a problem.

According to those statistics, black head coaches are now over-represented, if anything.


I was going to say the same thing props.

OABB
02-01-2013, 05:24 PM
What question, your stupid question? The obvious answer is no.

so...then you were wrong..great.

errand
02-01-2013, 05:48 PM
The only person that I have called a racist is you, because you're insinuation is that the best black head coach available on the planet is not as good as the revolving door of mediocre white guys that NFL teams so regularly hire after their teams finish 2-14 or 4-12.





So please enlighten us on which unemployed black coaches have better resume's than Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, and Mike Shanahan?

Coaches who make it to the Super Bowl are not considered mediocre.....they are considered good to exceptional. Guys like Mike Shanahan will continue to be hired because of their past accomplishments.....and experience. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a more impressive resume.


FYI...black head coaches since the merger (including interim) are a combined 631-592-2 (.516) and have led their teams to 5 SB's (Tomlin 2, Dungy 1, Caldwell 1, Smith 1) winning 2

errand
02-01-2013, 06:00 PM
I don't care what race you are. Clarence Thomas is a black skinned white supremacist.

You gave a racist opinion, you're a racist.

...and there it is! What we have here is a liberal on crusade.....well, let me send you on a worthwhile quest -

Instead of asking why there aren't more black head coaches, with the pct. of fatherless black children being born somewhere in the area of 65-75% maybe you should be asking why there aren't more black fathers.

errand
02-01-2013, 06:05 PM
ThirtyDegrees said - If John Fox were named Juan Fox or Jerome Fox he wouldn't be an NFL head coach right now and the proof is that Jim Caldwell and Lovie Smith haven't been rehired as NFL coaches despite having the exact same qualifications that John Fox has.

Isn't using stereotypical names like "Juan" and "Jerome" a racist act?

DENVERDUI55
02-01-2013, 06:53 PM
I think ThirtyDegrees is a Macgruder handle or FREAK. He existence before the race thread was only to defend Tebow and rip Fox.

TomServo
02-02-2013, 12:47 AM
F-saint Dungy. the nfl's problem is cronyism. how many chances do coaches like dennis green , joe bugel,norv turner, wade phillips -get?
Only a cheatin bastige like belichek would welcome a losing cheating moron like McD back into the fold.
the nfl would welcome Any insider, black or white into the fold than any outsider-black or white.

TomServo
02-02-2013, 01:08 AM
ALSO first black QB in pro football history? Marlin Briscoe. QB Denver Broncos 1969.
blah blah james harris starting bills(black) qb in 1971.

BroncoBeavis
02-02-2013, 05:09 AM
I don't really have a problem if Black people want to date other Black people. They have a similar service for farmers

To be fair I don't think that was the original intent of sheepdeep.com or ewe****ers.org. it just kinda worked out that way.

Requiem
02-02-2013, 10:09 AM
so...then you were wrong..great.

http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1359828333887.jpg

jerseyboiler120
02-02-2013, 10:45 AM
Just to be clear, you're talking about white people right?


Of course not. White people are not given the extra advantages and entitlements that other races are. I don't care if somebody is green as long as they are the best person for the job.

But we have thrown that motto away in America, and focus too heavily on hiring and helping based on skin color. That does not provide a climate for people to strive to achieve excellence; rather they strive to avoid hard work and look for what's "owed to them".

OABB
02-02-2013, 11:16 AM
http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1359828333887.jpg

I don't get it.

OABB
02-02-2013, 11:18 AM
...and there it is! What we have here is a liberal on crusade.....well, let me send you on a worthwhile quest -

Instead of asking why there aren't more black head coaches, with the pct. of fatherless black children being born somewhere in the area of 65-75% maybe you should be asking why there aren't more black fathers.

Because maury can only do a couple of tests a show.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-02-2013, 11:48 AM
This is how to troll.

Agamemnon
02-02-2013, 01:28 PM
Oh, I'm really sorry if I've made the white privilege echo chamber here feel somewhat uncomfortable.

I'll never get over how ironic it is to see people who are supposedly fighting racism bring up one of the most racist notions of all time. PC anti-racist rhetoric is so poisonous and bigoted, and you people don't even see it.

That One Guy
02-02-2013, 02:16 PM
Just remember, spending a lifetime screaming "crackas be holdin' me down, yo" is worse than living an honorable life and truly facing discrimination. In one case you're being held down by someone else's ignorance, in one case you're being held down by your own.

I never understand these people who seem to be trying to change the world by preaching the ills of white folks and that's all they do about it. They're throwing away a lifetime over perceived unfairness and their need to whine and cry.

And if you're motivated enough to be part of one of those racial activist groups, this doesn't pertain to you. I f'ing hate your guts but at least you're not so lazy as to sit on your ass bitchin' about the white man.

Willynowei
02-02-2013, 02:25 PM
These kind of rules are almost always counter productive. I know so many people that were not racist before a point in their life where they knew that someone took their spot due to one of these racial laws, you end up with someone not being hired or losing their job because the company or institution needs a certain amount of black/hispanic employees.

So now someone whos never been racist or thought about such a thing in their life starts to develop contempt... its the stupidest ****ing thing every conceived.

That One Guy
02-02-2013, 02:33 PM
These kind of rules are almost always counter productive. I know so many people that were not racist before a point in their life where they knew that someone took their spot due to one of these racial laws, you end up with someone not being hired or losing their job because the company or institution needs a certain amount of black/hispanic employees.

So now someone whos never been racist or thought about such a thing in their life starts to develop contempt... its the stupidest ****ing thing every conceived.

And it's particularly bad because there's no end state. We saw it in this thread already. A vast majority of NFL players are black so some think the coaches should represent that percentage rather than the national percentage at large.

In reality, we should probably be asking why so many blacks are in the NFL with such little white, Asian, etc, representation. Those numbers are far more skewed than the lack of black coaches. It's just a never-ending cry for a crutch.

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 02:59 PM
fact is whites will be the minority sooner than later and then will these anti-discrimination laws still be enforced or even in place? If it's just about numbers then these laws should help whites in the future right? As a matter of fact in some communities whites are the minority race so it stands to reason that they will get priority when jobs are available, right?

Or am I just living in a dreamland?

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 03:01 PM
There's more women going to college than men, so shouldn't the colleges and universities amend their policies to attact more men?

RhymesayersDU
02-02-2013, 03:05 PM
Not sure why you guys are arguing with ThirtyDegrees. He called me a ****er-lover in a rep comment. Pretty vile stuff.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2013, 03:29 PM
Y'all don't know what it's like, being male, middle class, and white.

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 03:35 PM
Y'all don't know what it's like, being male, middle class, and white.

I guess you speak from experience? Or are you just another transgendered lesbian, african-american woman looking for a job?

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2013, 03:38 PM
fact is whites will be the minority sooner than later and then will these anti-discrimination laws still be enforced or even in place? If it's just about numbers then these laws should help whites in the future right? As a matter of fact in some communities whites are the minority race so it stands to reason that they will get priority when jobs are available, right?

Or am I just living in a dreamland?

Well, lets look at the issue from a socioeconomic standpoint when the time comes. I know this is a sensitive issue, and in the world of the nfl it is odd that the coaching ranks are overwhelmingly white when the players aren't, but I don't know why people don't understand that many African Americans have had a tougher road to travel due to slavery, post slavery racism, and the economic effects of both. It's obviously better than it once was, and will continue to get better as society evolves, but simply forgetting history because you weren't born early enough to see it is dangerous.

It's a tough issue

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2013, 03:41 PM
I guess you speak from experience? Or are you just another transgendered lesbian, african-american woman looking for a job?

I was actually just quoting a Ben Folds song. Or misquoting it. You're a pretty intolerant fellow though. I don't think you're a bad guy but you sometimes say things that are odd and then seem shocked when someone doesn't agree

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 03:47 PM
I was actually just quoting a Ben Folds song. Or misquoting it. You're a pretty intolerant fellow though. I don't think you're a bad guy but you sometimes say things that are odd and then seem shocked when someone doesn't agree

hmmm. I've never been called intolerant by anyone. I also know that liberals like you tend to put bad labels on people who don't necessarily agree with you on social issues. That's ok though, that's just how you operate because you got nothing else.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2013, 03:49 PM
hmmm. I've never been called intolerant by anyone. I also know that liberals like you tend to put bad labels on people who don't necessarily agree with you on social issues. That's ok though, that's just how you operate because you got nothing else.

My point exactly.

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 03:53 PM
Well, lets look at the issue from a socioeconomic standpoint when the time comes. I know this is a sensitive issue, and in the world of the nfl it is odd that the coaching ranks are overwhelmingly white when the players aren't, but I don't know why people don't understand that many African Americans have had a tougher road to travel due to slavery, post slavery racism, and the economic effects of both. It's obviously better than it once was, and will continue to get better as society evolves, but simply forgetting history because you weren't born early enough to see it is dangerous.

It's a tough issue

I was just asking a question about numbers, that is, many institutions pass up well qualified people in order to fill a minority hire quota. So this should work for all races, right?

I agree about knowing history, it's very important. I guess my point is will history be forgotten or ignored when whites are no longer the "majority"? My point about colleges and universities now having more woman attending them is a good example. Title 9 has benefitted woman at the expense of men. So now that things are all equal, will these institutions of higher education amend these policies to some degree. It's a legitmate question to ask.

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 03:54 PM
My point exactly.

you have no point, which is my point. See, I can play your game too.

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 03:57 PM
Also, just a little bit of interesting trivia, I know the woman who used to manage the Ben Folds Five... lol!

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2013, 03:57 PM
I was just asking a question about numbers, that is, many institutions pass up well qualified people in order to fill a minority hire quota. So this should work for all races, right?

I agree about knowing history, it's very important. I guess my point is will history be forgotten or ignored when whites are no longer the "majority"? My point about colleges and universities now having more woman attending them is a good example. Title 9 has benefitted woman at the expense of men. So now that things are all equal, will these institutions of higher education amend these policies to some degree. It's a legitmate question to ask.

It is a legit question, which is why I said it will become more of a socioeconomic issue. But don't be surprised if a lot of minorities are still given aid because they don't have as much money as whites

But the reality is the USA is overpopulated. No one wants to talk about that cuz I guess there's nothing we can do about it

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2013, 03:58 PM
Also, just a little bit of interesting trivia, I know the woman who used to manage the Ben Folds Five... lol!

Used to love watching those dudes perform. Who knew a bunch of nerdy dudes could put on that kind of show

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2013, 04:06 PM
It is a legit question, which is why I said it will become more of a socioeconomic issue. But don't be surprised if a lot of minorities are still given aid because they don't have as much money as whites

But the reality is the USA is overpopulated. No one wants to talk about that cuz I guess there's nothing we can do about it

See, this is where liberals tend to change the rules. When EOE was began it was about giving minorities and women a better chance at getting jobs. Fair enough, I like the policy and agree with it. However, now that more balance is being obtained (it's no perfect by any means) and whites and males are decreasing in numbers for various reasons, will these same laws that protected people of color and women apply to whites and males? However, you seem to be saying "it's not about jobs anymore, it's about $."

So then, you are saying "no" that EOE won't ever be applied to whites and males because it's not about jobs, it's about wealth? Perhaps I don't understand the reasoning behind EOE policies?

ThirtyDegrees
02-02-2013, 04:33 PM
Not sure why you guys are arguing with ThirtyDegrees. He called me a ****er-lover in a rep comment. Pretty vile stuff.


LOL at resulting to slander because you're too dumb to make an intelligent point.

I've never given anyone on this site rep positively or negatively, and I never will.

errand
02-02-2013, 06:46 PM
I was just asking a question about numbers, that is, many institutions pass up well qualified people in order to fill a minority hire quota. So this should work for all races, right?

I agree about knowing history, it's very important. I guess my point is will history be forgotten or ignored when whites are no longer the "majority"?

No it won't change if whites become the minority......

That's because affirmative action isn't about leveling the playing field...it's about getting even.

I recall the UM Law School suit where a caucasian woman sued over their admittance scoring that gave an extra 20 points to hispanic and black applicants as the ones selected are those who score closer to the 150 point maximum

......basically making anyone else start in a 20-0 hole before the application was completed. allegedly they are "leveling" the playing field, when the truth is they are saying that blacks and hispanics are too stupid to get into their school without some help.

I find it odd that Asians who are the smallest group of the minorities are not included in this alleged "leveling" of the playing field, despite the affirmative action was implemented under the guise to help "minorities"

RhymesayersDU
02-02-2013, 06:55 PM
LOL at resulting to slander because you're too dumb to make an intelligent point.

I've never given anyone on this site rep positively or negatively, and I never will.

Bro, not sure why you're even denying it. You know what you wrote. Not sure why you'd say that then and now take up the cause the other way.

Just bored, maybe? I'll assume it's that.

Ratboy
02-02-2013, 06:57 PM
screenshot?

Dr. Broncenstein
02-02-2013, 07:51 PM
LOL at resulting to slander because you're too dumb to make an intelligent point.

I've never given anyone on this site rep positively or negatively, and I never will.

Don't get all uppity on us.

ThirtyDegrees
02-02-2013, 08:30 PM
Bro, not sure why you're even denying it. You know what you wrote. Not sure why you'd say that then and now take up the cause the other way.

Just bored, maybe? I'll assume it's that.


lmfao. I'm sure there's some way for you to document this it it were true.

Quite a pathetic lie.

Houshyamama
02-02-2013, 08:43 PM
lmfao. I'm sure there's some way for you to document this it it were true.

Quite a pathetic lie.

http://i.imgur.com/3fvgRl9.jpg

bronco militia
02-02-2013, 08:54 PM
bwhaha

ThirtyDegrees
02-03-2013, 01:16 AM
http://i.imgur.com/3fvgRl9.jpg

I left this one, this one's real

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-03-2013, 12:16 PM
So, from reading a bit further back, the Rooney Rule is about "giving a chance" to people who are of a different skin colour?
I'm assuming that as a legal immigrant I would get "zero" from the rule, as far as help in my NFL coaching career, my friend from India would also get nothing, ... while an immigrant from Mexico would benefit. WTF?

ElwayMD
02-04-2013, 06:38 AM
Well frying something is scientifically proven to make it better. Who else would eat greenbeans otherwise? But still...KFC is of the devil. Only explanation. You know beforehand it wont end well. You know during it wont end well. You know after that it will not end well. Yet we keep buying it.

Why? WHY?

:Broncos:

The wife and I call KFC the one-legged hooker. She is so good in the moment and you love every second of it, but when you get home you are full of regret and pain.

Kaylore
02-04-2013, 07:16 AM
http://i.imgur.com/3fvgRl9.jpg

I must like how you post.

gyldenlove
02-04-2013, 09:09 AM
So, from reading a bit further back, the Rooney Rule is about "giving a chance" to people who are of a different skin colour?
I'm assuming that as a legal immigrant I would get "zero" from the rule, as far as help in my NFL coaching career, my friend from India would also get nothing, ... while an immigrant from Mexico would benefit. WTF?

Your friend from India would certainly qualify as a Rooney rule candidate, the rule now includes all ethnic minorities, not just african americans - so Indian, Chinese, hispanic is all good.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-04-2013, 10:25 AM
Your friend from India would certainly qualify as a Rooney rule candidate ...
Feel free to correct me here ... aren't Indians considered "caucasian" in the USA?

Pretty sure we're going to get down to splitting hairs here, which is why this "Rooney Rule" would be CRUSHED for it's absurdity in a court of law.

Archer81
02-04-2013, 10:26 AM
Feel free to correct me here ... aren't Indians considered "caucasian" in the USA?

Pretty sure we're going to get down to splitting hairs here, which is why this "Rooney Rule" would be CRUSHED for it's absurdity in a court of law.


This is the United States. We make the absurd common place.


:Broncos:

txtebow
02-04-2013, 10:32 AM
I'd like to see the NFL implement a Caucasian defensive back and running back program where every NFL team has to have at least ONE. Call it the "LOONEY RULE"

txtebow
02-04-2013, 10:38 AM
And it's particularly bad because there's no end state. We saw it in this thread already. A vast majority of NFL players are black so some think the coaches should represent that percentage rather than the national percentage at large.

In reality, we should probably be asking why so many blacks are in the NFL with such little white, Asian, etc, representation. Those numbers are far more skewed than the lack of black coaches. It's just a never-ending cry for a crutch.

BINGO! but what it boils down to, is quite frankly, GENETICS and testing parameters. Fast twitch vs slow twitch, bone and muscle density differences, and of course IQ differences....see my attachment for further clarification

Houshyamama
02-04-2013, 11:32 AM
I must like how you post.

That or you take pity on me.

ThirtyDegrees
02-04-2013, 01:19 PM
Hahaha, so there's a lack of qualified minority head coaches for NFL teams to even interview.

Meanwhile Jim Caldwell takes over for repeated NFL failure Cam Cameron at coordinator and turns the Baltimore Ravens offense into Super Bowl winners.

Requiem
02-04-2013, 01:21 PM
Hahaha, so there's a lack of qualified minority head coaches for NFL teams to even interview.

Meanwhile Jim Caldwell takes over for repeated NFL failure Cam Cameron at coordinator and turns the Baltimore Ravens offense into Super Bowl winners.

Joe Flacco, a white man, rose to the occasion.

broncosteven
02-04-2013, 08:24 PM
I am waiting for Scandinavian-American Month. Hell Leif Erickson beat Columbus to our Continent by centuries and yet we have to put up with Columbus Day.

We call it Leif Erickson day in my house.

You bitches should all have to eat Lefse, Lubscos (which is the one thing I can cook well), Swedish Meatballs, and pickled Herring while listening to readings of the Hemskringla and the telling of the Norse Myths, my favorite is the one where Loki steals Sif's Hair and Thor makes him replace it with gold thread made by gnomes.

I feel THE MAN is keeping me down!

broncocalijohn
02-04-2013, 08:58 PM
I must like how you post.

who would know? You don't get off your damn smart phone to type something about why you liked it. You leave us hanging with that blank pos rep. You are kind but yet too cool for school to type anything. That or you are Mystery Man.

broncocalijohn
02-04-2013, 08:58 PM
I must like how you post.

who would know? You don't get off your damn smart phone to type something about why you liked it. You leave us hanging with that blank pos rep. You are kind but yet too cool for school to type anything. That or you are Mystery Man.