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View Full Version : Legal immigrant reminds us why the 2nd exists.


BABronco
01-30-2013, 08:47 AM
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Korean man speaks on 1/28/13 about gun rights and a little gun history.

Dukes
01-30-2013, 11:40 AM
"But if it saves just one life, it will be worth it"

Rohirrim
01-30-2013, 12:07 PM
"Societal decay?" Way too broad of a concept to even be useful. I would also argue that "societal decay" is what the older generation always thinks the younger generation is bringing about in era after era after era. Plato thought the younger generation of his time was engaged in "societal decay." And so it goes.

The guy makes some good points, especially the one about the riots in L.A. How does a free society guard itself against psychos? Who knows? Would the shopkeepers in L.A. have been able to hold off rioters with shotguns? Probably. Does anybody really need 30 round clips and armor piercing ammo?

That One Guy
01-30-2013, 12:22 PM
"Societal decay?" Way too broad of a concept to even be useful. I would also argue that "societal decay" is what the older generation always thinks the younger generation is bringing about in era after era after era. Plato thought the younger generation of his time was engaged in "societal decay." And so it goes.

The guy makes some good points, especially the one about the riots in L.A. How does a free society guard itself against psychos? Who knows? Would the shopkeepers in L.A. have been able to hold off rioters with shotguns? Probably. Does anybody really need 30 round clips and armor piercing ammo?

Is gun availability now comparable to 30 years ago? Are school shooting rates comparable to 30 years ago?

Dukes
01-30-2013, 12:32 PM
"Societal decay?" Way too broad of a concept to even be useful. I would also argue that "societal decay" is what the older generation always thinks the younger generation is bringing about in era after era after era. Plato thought the younger generation of his time was engaged in "societal decay." And so it goes.

The guy makes some good points, especially the one about the riots in L.A. How does a free society guard itself against psychos? Who knows? Would the shopkeepers in L.A. have been able to hold off rioters with shotguns? Probably. Does anybody really need 30 round clips and armor piercing ammo?

Do we really need cars that can go 200+ miles an hour burning a gallon of fuel every mile? Do we really need sports in society, with all the injuries costing millions a year? Since when is a right have anything to do with "need"?

ant1999e
01-30-2013, 01:53 PM
Do we really need cars that can go 200+ miles an hour burning a gallon of fuel every mile? Do we really need sports in society, with all the injuries costing millions a year? Since when is a right have anything to do with "need"?

I think we should be limited to 2 cars per family with fuel tanks no larger than 10 gallons.

Rohirrim
01-30-2013, 01:59 PM
I think we should be limited to 2 cars per family with fuel tanks no larger than 10 gallons.

That will make a sensible argument as soon as some whacko knocks off a room full of schoolchildren with a car.

ant1999e
01-30-2013, 02:02 PM
That will make a sensible argument as soon as some whacko knocks off a room full of schoolchildren with a car.

You will always fail to see the true problem.

Sad that immigrants cherish our rights more than we do.

Rohirrim
01-30-2013, 02:05 PM
Do we really need cars that can go 200+ miles an hour burning a gallon of fuel every mile? Do we really need sports in society, with all the injuries costing millions a year? Since when is a right have anything to do with "need"?

So, your interpretation of the second amendment means you have the right to own an atomic weapon?

Rohirrim
01-30-2013, 02:07 PM
You will always fail to see the true problem.

Sad that immigrants cherish our rights more than we do.

What is the true problem?

Dukes
01-30-2013, 03:37 PM
So, your interpretation of the second amendment means you have the right to own an atomic weapon?

I have my application in the works right now to posses my own atomic bomb. Thanks for asking.

Dukes
01-30-2013, 03:39 PM
We should probably ban the internet too. Lot's of child predators find children from it, not to mention all the child porn they distribute. Hell, if a kid gets bullied over the internet they might kill themselves. The internet must go. We must think of the children first!

cutthemdown
01-30-2013, 04:04 PM
That will make a sensible argument as soon as some whacko knocks off a room full of schoolchildren with a car.

BS he is saying we could easily make many laws that would save at least one childs life. We could end football for all young kids because its too dangerous a sport. Hell look at all the adults with brain problems? How can we let our kids play that sport?

Also we drive fast. We could easily save lives with a 45 MPH speed limit. It will be worth it if we save even one life right?

Also this winter alone like 10 people have been killed by simply walking too close to the waves along the ocean. They got swept in. We could make a law saying no one walk near the water. It will save at least one life right?

Dukes
01-30-2013, 05:00 PM
BS he is saying we could easily make many laws that would save at least one childs life. We could end football for all young kids because its too dangerous a sport. Hell look at all the adults with brain problems? How can we let our kids play that sport?

Also we drive fast. We could easily save lives with a 45 MPH speed limit. It will be worth it if we save even one life right?

Also this winter alone like 10 people have been killed by simply walking too close to the waves along the ocean. They got swept in. We could make a law saying no one walk near the water. It will save at least one life right?

What about all the people who are stabbed to death? Where is their justice? We can't have all these knives being sold to just anyone. Want a new set of steak knives? Pfft.... lets see your background. People die every year from skiing accidents, who really needs to go skiing anyway? We better make it illegal to own any ingredients to making bombs as well. Don't want another Timothy McVeigh blowing up a building with fertilizer. You don't need fertilizer. The new possibilities of safety are endless.

cutthemdown
01-30-2013, 06:46 PM
What about all the people who are stabbed to death? Where is their justice? We can't have all these knives being sold to just anyone. Want a new set of steak knives? Pfft.... lets see your background. People die every year from skiing accidents, who really needs to go skiing anyway? We better make it illegal to own any ingredients to making bombs as well. Don't want another Timothy McVeigh blowing up a building with fertilizer. You don't need fertilizer. The new possibilities of safety are endless.

Not to mention skiing is bad for the snow, which turns to water, which we drink. And then they have to rip out trees for the runs. Also where are the animals supposed to run to when being ran down by a 50 mph skiier?

Dukes you are on to something here. If we make enough laws not one single person will die from anything but old age. Oh and if we put money into cloning maybe not even that!

First off though we have to make alcohol illegal. It kills so many and if it even saves one life it will be worth it.

Dukes
01-30-2013, 07:27 PM
Not to mention skiing is bad for the snow, which turns to water, which we drink. And then they have to rip out trees for the runs. Also where are the animals supposed to run to when being ran down by a 50 mph skiier?

Dukes you are on to something here. If we make enough laws not one single person will die from anything but old age. Oh and if we put money into cloning maybe not even that!

First off though we have to make alcohol illegal. It kills so many and if it even saves one life it will be worth it.

What about prescription drugs? Thousands of teens abuse them every year. We need to force people who are precribed drugs to lock them into a government approved safe out of the reach of children. Ugh, I feel like I'm the only one who cares about the children!!

Dukes
01-30-2013, 07:33 PM
Not to mention skiing is bad for the snow, which turns to water, which we drink. And then they have to rip out trees for the runs. Also where are the animals supposed to run to when being ran down by a 50 mph skiier?

Dukes you are on to something here. If we make enough laws not one single person will die from anything but old age. Oh and if we put money into cloning maybe not even that!

First off though we have to make alcohol illegal. It kills so many and if it even saves one life it will be worth it.

I think WE are on to something. Imagine a society without guns, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, knives, sharp sticks, 30oz sodas, salt and foul language. I feel a tingle running up my leg.

cutthemdown
01-30-2013, 08:21 PM
What about prescription drugs? Thousands of teens abuse them every year. We need to force people who are precribed drugs to lock them into a government approved safe out of the reach of children. Ugh, I feel like I'm the only one who cares about the children!!

I could actually see them doing that lol.

lonestar
01-30-2013, 08:25 PM
I think we should be limited to 2 cars per family with fuel tanks no larger than 10 gallons.

Shhhhhhh. Do not plants anymore stupid ideas in the far left liberals heads.

For Gods sake be quiet or some moron will write dirty Harry or dummy finestien withe it as an original thought.

lonestar
01-30-2013, 08:30 PM
What about all the people who are stabbed to death? Where is their justice? We can't have all these knives being sold to just anyone. Want a new set of steak knives? Pfft.... lets see your background. People die every year from skiing accidents, who really needs to go skiing anyway? We better make it illegal to own any ingredients to making bombs as well. Don't want another Timothy McVeigh blowing up a building with fertilizer. You don't need fertilizer. The new possibilities of safety are endless.

You are on a roll.

But every time you post one of these some moron will jump on that bandwagon.

Got to control your thoughts man. You are planting seeds that just may take over the earth.

ant1999e
01-30-2013, 09:27 PM
What is the true problem?

:crazy:

nyuk nyuk
01-31-2013, 08:34 AM
Notice how when AR15s save lives they're called "semiautomatic rifles" but when they take them they're called "assault weapons"?

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nyuk nyuk
01-31-2013, 08:39 AM
That will make a sensible argument as soon as some whacko knocks off a room full of schoolchildren with a car.

One guy?

So I assume by this measurement that since over 10,000 people a year are killed in drunken driving crashes that you want to ban or severely restrict booze sales? Limits on how much booze you can buy, how large a bottle of booze, forced booze classes? Booze sales tracking?

nyuk nyuk
01-31-2013, 08:51 AM
"Societal decay?" Way too broad of a concept to even be useful. I would also argue that "societal decay" is what the older generation always thinks the younger generation is bringing about in era after era after era. Plato thought the younger generation of his time was engaged in "societal decay." And so it goes.

No, this is what societal decay looks like (http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-23.pdf).

Fedaykin
01-31-2013, 10:06 AM
One guy?

So I assume by this measurement that since over 10,000 people a year are killed in drunken driving crashes that you want to ban or severely restrict booze sales? Limits on how much booze you can buy, how large a bottle of booze, forced booze classes? Booze sales tracking?

You do realize we do that stuff, right?

Requiem
01-31-2013, 10:11 AM
You do realize we do that stuff, right?

No way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state) man! Hilarious!

nyuk nyuk
01-31-2013, 10:12 AM
You do realize we do that stuff, right?

Really? I don't see everyone being limited or tracked every time they purchase something. That over 10,000/yr are killed in drunken driving crashes anyway doesn't set off any red flags to you that what laws there are aren't enough.

Why?

Requiem
01-31-2013, 10:15 AM
Really? I don't see everyone being limited or tracked every time they purchase something. That over 10,000/yr are killed in drunken driving crashes anyway doesn't set off any red flags to you that what laws there are aren't enough.

Why?

Just cause it is illegal to drink and drive doesn't mean people aren't going to do it.

Rohirrim
01-31-2013, 11:00 AM
Just cause it is illegal to drink and drive doesn't mean people aren't going to do it.

Since criminals won't follow new gun laws, there's no point in writing and passing them. Which is a pretty good argument for wiping all statutes off the books, I suppose. I mean, what's the point, right? :puff:

Irish Stout
01-31-2013, 11:49 AM
You do realize we do that stuff, right?

I was going to say.

Personally, I think people should be able to buy all the booze, cigarettes and guns they want. I wouldn't mind actually seeing the legal age on all of those being 18, as well as the driving age.

This doesn't solve any problems. Probably creates more.

Perhaps every 18 year old would need to go through an alcohol, firearm, and tobacco health and safety class, before being allowed to access these items... but thats probably inconceivable as well.

Oh well, I'm gonna go down my liter of Beam while smoking knock off cuban cigars and shooting old bean cans.

DenverBrit
01-31-2013, 12:16 PM
Really? I don't see everyone being limited or tracked every time they purchase something. That over 10,000/yr are killed in drunken driving crashes anyway doesn't set off any red flags to you that what laws there are aren't enough.

Why?

Want to drive a car? Pass a test, register the car and prove you have liability insurance ....and that's for something designed as transportation.

Want to own a gun? No test, plenty of loopholes if you are a criminal or ****ing crazy, no insurance required.........and that's for something designed to kill and maim.

It's time to at least treat guns the same way we treat cars.

Fedaykin
01-31-2013, 12:35 PM
Really? I don't see everyone being limited or tracked every time they purchase something. That over 10,000/yr are killed in drunken driving crashes anyway doesn't set off any red flags to you that what laws there are aren't enough.

Why?

Anytime you get on a public road, you're being monitored by law enforcement (increasingly by automated electronic surveillance). There's also sobriety checkpoints, random stops, etc. Every time you buy alcohol, you're, by law, required to be screened for appropriate age, sobriety and mental state. You can only buy alcohol over the counter in designated establishments. You can only buy alcohol from licensed dealers (and there is no loophole for selling alcohol in any quantity at any location without a license or to minors/etc.). Dealers are frequently (sometimes/places as often as weekly) tested for compliance with all laws. Failure to comply with laws typically leads to fines, revocation of licenses, etc. You can't buy alcohol on certain, arbitrary, days in many jurisdictions (blue laws). Many jurisdictions completely ban alcohol. Many ban anything stronger than extremely weak alcohol (3.2%). Extremely low limits of BAC are in place in most jurisdictions (typically less than 1 drink/hour will put you over the legally drunk limit).

Of course, if you want to talk about drunk driving, you have to include all the laws about driving itself. In order to drive a car, you must be licensed, pass a test, procure liability insurance, etc. Oh, and that includes compulsory education about alcohol.

Providing alcohol to minors or other "invalid" purchasers typically leads to large fines, some jail time, etc. (in Colorado, up to 6 years in prison + 3 years probation + $5,000 fine) and they'll pull your driver's license.

We restrict and police alcohol far more than firearms. And, of course, trying to compare something that causes accidental death (alcohol) to something that enables purposeful death on a large, easy to commit scale is, quite frankly, ****ing retarded.

Almost as retarded as cutlet comparing it to sports and walking on the beach, but he still has you beat there.

Dukes
01-31-2013, 05:44 PM
Want to drive a car? Pass a test, register the car and prove you have liability insurance ....and that's for something designed as transportation.

Want to own a gun? No test, plenty of loopholes if you are a criminal or ****ing crazy, no insurance required.........and that's for something designed to kill and maim.

It's time to at least treat guns the same way we treat cars.

I guess I missed that part in the Constitution that says driving a car is a right.

DenverBrit
01-31-2013, 06:34 PM
I guess I missed that part in the Constitution that says driving a car is a right.

I'm sure the 'pursuit of happiness' covers it. :)

I'm not suggesting denying law abiding citizens the 2nd, but this isn't the 18th century and sanity and common sense also need to apply. Anyway, the Supreme Court is there to decide if the 2nd has been violated. Let's at least get to the table and discuss the issues.

So far, it's been all 'nyet' and scare tactics from the NRA & gun lobby.....unless the discussion is 'more guns are needed.'

That One Guy
01-31-2013, 07:24 PM
I'm sure the 'pursuit of happiness' covers it. :)

I'm not suggesting denying law abiding citizens the 2nd, but this isn't the 18th century and sanity and common sense also need to apply. Anyway, the Supreme Court is there to decide if the 2nd has been violated. Let's at least get to the table and discuss the issues.

So far, it's been all 'nyet' and scare tactics from the NRA & gun lobby.....unless the discussion is 'more guns are needed.'

Common sense says after they imprisoned the Japanese in WWII, chased communist spies in the 50s, then sacrificed privacy to get the terrorists following 9/11, you'd stop letting people herd you by way of the boogy man. Gun owners aren't the problem. Criminals are the problem.

Dukes
01-31-2013, 07:31 PM
I'm sure the 'pursuit of happiness' covers it. :)

I'm not suggesting denying law abiding citizens the 2nd, but this isn't the 18th century and sanity and common sense also need to apply. Anyway, the Supreme Court is there to decide if the 2nd has been violated. Let's at least get to the table and discuss the issues.

So far, it's been all 'nyet' and scare tactics from the NRA & gun lobby.....unless the discussion is 'more guns are needed.'

We need to discuss issues that will actually keep people safe. Attacking magazine capacity and "assault weapons" that have no real difference than traditional rifles is just doing something for the sake of doing something. The reality is if people weren't being threatened with confiscation hidden as registration then people would be more likely to accept new legislation.

The fact is the current system does work. Besides total confiscation of ALL weapons, what exactly would have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre? I haven't heard one rational argument on that yet. Is the left willing to really attempt confiscation? If so they will lose, and this country will be in a civil war and then we all lose.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/30/the-gun-show-loophole-myth/

spdirty
02-01-2013, 07:37 AM
"Societal decay?" Way too broad of a concept to even be useful. I would also argue that "societal decay" is what the older generation always thinks the younger generation is bringing about in era after era after era. Plato thought the younger generation of his time was engaged in "societal decay." And so it goes.

It is. Have you seen these kids lately? All have long hair, stupid looking pants, piercings everywhere, impolite little bastards think the world revolves around them. None of them give a diddly **** about football, or politics.

The guy makes some good points, especially the one about the riots in L.A. How does a free society guard itself against psychos? Who knows? Would the shopkeepers in L.A. have been able to hold off rioters with shotguns? Probably. Does anybody really need 30 round clips and armor piercing ammo?

What do you think you will need if your government ever turns on you?

W*GS
02-01-2013, 07:47 AM
What do you think you will need if your government ever turns on you?

A nuke. From where can I get one?

Requiem
02-01-2013, 07:52 AM
It is. Have you seen these kids lately? All have long hair, stupid looking pants, piercings everywhere, impolite little bastards think the world revolves around them.

Like Ro said, every other generation looks down their noses at the ones that will follow them. It has been going on forever. Do some people fit into what you describe? Sure. Do most? Hardly. Having piercings, long hair and stupid looking pants (what is a stupid looking pair of pants?) doesn't signify societal decay. That is their personal appearance. What is the big deal?

If there is a good critique on younger generations (teens to mid-twenties), I would argue that it would be most cannot relate to other generations or engage with people who are older than them. A lot of them are spoiled and have no idea what it is like to work for anything. Blame can be placed on their parents for that. We live in a me-first society in the first place and I think a lot of people end up caring about the wrong things. At any case, the root of most of these problems starts at home.

None of them give a diddly **** about football, or politics.

More than half of the population is politically apathetic. We have a very uneducated citizenry.

Rohirrim
02-01-2013, 08:00 AM
What do you think you will need if your government ever turns on you?

That ship has sailed, my friend. We have government of the Wall Street, for the military/industrial complex, and by the corporation.

Who should we shoot first?

Pony Boy
02-01-2013, 09:22 AM
Since criminals won't follow new gun laws, there's no point in writing and passing them. Which is a pretty good argument for wiping all statutes off the books, I suppose. I mean, what's the point, right? :puff:

Why don't we start in Chicago, just write a new law requiring anyone with an illegal firearm to turn the weapons in at the local police department. If you are a convicted felon, please turn in you firearm and yourself in for possible prosecution. That should do it, no more murders committed with a firearm in Chicago.

DenverBrit
02-01-2013, 09:38 AM
We need to discuss issues that will actually keep people safe. Attacking magazine capacity and "assault weapons" that have no real difference than traditional rifles is just doing something for the sake of doing something. The reality is if people weren't being threatened with confiscation hidden as registration then people would be more likely to accept new legislation.

The fact is the current system does work. Besides total confiscation of ALL weapons, what exactly would have prevented the Sandy Hook massacre? I haven't heard one rational argument on that yet. Is the left willing to really attempt confiscation? If so they will lose, and this country will be in a civil war and then we all lose.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/30/the-gun-show-loophole-myth/

I agree. An open discussion to lessen murder rates and hopefully prevent future incidents like Sandy Hook are needed. There are plenty of issues to deal with and no single solution will be enough.

There is a lot of scare mongering about confiscation of guns, which isn't going to happen, nor would it be on the table, but the NRA and gun lobby love to play that card.

It's not useful, in fact it's a cynical attempt to drive gun sales and NRA memberships. They are acting like 'troofers,' and for the same purpose.....$$$

cutthemdown
02-01-2013, 09:40 AM
I agree. An open discussion to lessen murder rates and hopefully prevent future incidents like Sandy Hook are needed. There are plenty of issues to deal with and no single issue will be enough.

There is a lot of scare mongering about confiscation of guns, which isn't going to happen, nor would it be on the table, but the NRA and gun lobby love to play that card.

It's not useful, in fact it's a cynical attempt to drive gun sales and NRA memberships. They are acting like 'troofers,' and for the same purpose.....$$$

Its gun control adovocates who use the scare tactics Brit. They make people think that their kids aren't safe in school because of a lack of gun control. How is that not a scare tactic?

cutthemdown
02-01-2013, 10:01 AM
Why don't we start in Chicago, just write a new law requiring anyone with an illegal firearm to turn the weapons in at the local police department. If you are a convicted felon, please turn in you firearm and yourself in for possible prosecution. That should do it, no more murders committed with a firearm in Chicago.

I make money of the gun buy back in CA. Now they only give gift cards though but its still cool. Get a crappy gun that doesn't even work and go get 50-100 bucks for it. We are out of guns to turn in now but i am always on the lookout because i know CA will do it again eventually. LAPD does them all the time. Guns don't even have to work just find the oldest most worthless guns you can and buy them up cheap.

cutthemdown
02-01-2013, 10:02 AM
Whats more of a scare tactic then support a law limiting clip sizes and rifle types or your kids won't be safe in school.?

Dukes
02-01-2013, 11:00 AM
I agree. An open discussion to lessen murder rates and hopefully prevent future incidents like Sandy Hook are needed. There are plenty of issues to deal with and no single solution will be enough.

There is a lot of scare mongering about confiscation of guns, which isn't going to happen, nor would it be on the table, but the NRA and gun lobby love to play that card.

It's not useful, in fact it's a cynical attempt to drive gun sales and NRA memberships. They are acting like 'troofers,' and for the same purpose.....$$$

Fear is the best motivator. Both sides use it, especially on this issue. Confiscation isn't going to happen, but that doesn't mean that the left doesn't want it to happen.

DenverBrit
02-01-2013, 11:04 AM
Its gun control adovocates who use the scare tactics Brit. They make people think that their kids aren't safe in school because of a lack of gun control. How is that not a scare tactic?

Are they making money in some way?

Because that's my issue, the NRA and gun lobby are about the money.

Those who advocate gun controls have what objective in mind?

Dukes
02-01-2013, 10:14 PM
Look at all these Rednecks! Good grief. Damn inbreeds.

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Dukes
02-01-2013, 10:18 PM
And another one. The redneck is strong with this one.

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Dukes
02-01-2013, 10:19 PM
And another one. The redneck is strong with this one.

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