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pricejj
01-28-2013, 10:23 AM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/01/28/nate-irving-younger-inexpensive-alternative-linebacker/18294/#disqus_thread

Rascal posted in the draft forum that the DP reports Nate Irving is moving back to MLB to compete for the starting job this offseason.

1. Are Brooking and Irving going to battle it out for starting MLB?
2. Is this is writing on the wall for DJ to be released?
3. If so, forget about spending a high draft pick on an LB in the draft.


(either that or I am completely misreading the entire thing.)

SonOfLe-loLang
01-28-2013, 10:26 AM
I'm not sure how you drew any of those conclusions from that one simple article.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 10:33 AM
I'm not sure how you drew any of those conclusions from that one simple article.

If Irving really is returning to MLB (as they report it), it changes a lot of things. Of course, they may just be speculating. The article seems to be a bit high on 'wishful thinking' and a bit low on factual content.

ZONA
01-28-2013, 10:37 AM
There is NOTHING in that article to give your post any cred at all. If you think Elway is going into next season knowing he has a team that can win it all now, with maybe a few more upgrades, and you think he's going to count on Iriving as the starting MLB, I think you may be just as dumb as the guy who's writing that article. The guy hasn't show hardly anything in his few years here. There's no way you can look at what he's done so far and say he's the answer.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-28-2013, 10:37 AM
Perhaps but...

1) it doesnt imply that they will sign brooking back, or that they are overly confident Irving will take the starting job.
2) Whats it have to do with DJ? Though i think the broncos will logically cut him anyway
3) They hardly have a ton of money wrapped up in irving. I dont see why they wouldnt draft an LB just because of him

Requiem
01-28-2013, 11:25 AM
Denver will draft a LB with one of their top three picks.

gunns
01-28-2013, 11:37 AM
Denver will draft a LB with one of their top three picks.

I think so too. Irving will have to compete with whomever that is. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they let DJ go and I don't believe they will resign Brooking, if they do it will be another year.

Ray Finkle
01-28-2013, 11:47 AM
he has as much of a chance of becoming the starting MLB for the Broncos next year as I do becoming the King of France....

Tombstone RJ
01-28-2013, 11:52 AM
We will know a lot more after the draft IMHO. This article is basically saying that Nate is still a young guy and that means Elway will give him an opportunity to win the starting MLB spot b/c Elway wants to infuse some more youth into the team. So basically, Elway is telling Nate "here's your chance." However, the draft will also speak to this issue. If the Broncos spend a first day pick on a ILB/MLB then Nate will know that nothing is being given to him.

Rohirrim
01-28-2013, 12:05 PM
Sounds to me like all they are saying is that Irving will get a chance to compete for a LB position, same as everybody else they bring in.

Rascal
01-28-2013, 12:15 PM
FWIW, I read the rotoworld blurb, which outside of mentioning Broncos and Nate Irving appears to have no similarities to the Denverpost blog.

Sorry.

Lestat
01-28-2013, 12:18 PM
he'll get a chance. but there is too much talent in the draft at MLB to pass over.

enjolras
01-28-2013, 12:23 PM
There is NOTHING in that article to give your post any cred at all. If you think Elway is going into next season knowing he has a team that can win it all now, with maybe a few more upgrades, and you think he's going to count on Iriving as the starting MLB, I think you may be just as dumb as the guy who's writing that article. The guy hasn't show hardly anything in his few years here. There's no way you can look at what he's done so far and say he's the answer.

He's been here for two seasons and that's a pretty harsh critique.

Irving was *fantastic* on special teams this year. He was fast and tackled really really well. He's been a project for sure, but he consistently got better as the year wore on.

There were lingering injury issues in his rookie season and there have been scattered reports (listening to the local radio) that his first season was essentially a redshirt year. Coming into this season he clearly had issues adjusting to NFL game speed, but at least on special teams, that got better and better as the year went along.

I still have no idea if he'll ever see the field, but there are least reasons to be optimistic.

Requiem
01-28-2013, 12:23 PM
Well, that is pretty incorrect. You don't know that they thought Irving was a first-round talent. In fact, it was Bill Parcells who thought Nate Irving was a first-round talent, despite the fact that he basically lost his leg in an automobile accident. The team obviously didn't have him rated that high since he was a third-round selection.

And why would the roster space be limited? We have a bunch of areas we can upgrade on this roster. ILB being one of the primary ones. Irving and Brooking aren't the kind of guys you want being the only dudes on your roster going into training camp at MIKE.

This is assuming something is done with DJ and Joe as well. We are not deep at LB. We have Trevathan, Johnson, Miller, Irving and Woodyard outside those two X-Factors above, which in my eyes are likely to be cap casualties (and I like both those players). Outside Miller, it really isn't that impressive. Another young player or veteran needs to be added into the mix to make the unit a whole lot better. If one of those guys goes down, we are SOL.

Tombstone RJ
01-28-2013, 12:27 PM
fuggit, get Minter LOL!

pricejj
01-28-2013, 12:28 PM
Perhaps but...

1) it doesnt imply that they will sign brooking back, or that they are overly confident Irving will take the starting job.

Why wouldn't you bring Brooking back? He led the Broncos to the #4 scoring Defense.

I think Irving's likely role will be similar to D.J.'s role when he came back...while hoping he can be the starter in the future.

2) Whats it have to do with DJ? Though i think the broncos will logically cut him anyway

It's highly unlikely D.J. will remain on the team as 3rd string MLB.

3) They hardly have a ton of money wrapped up in irving. I dont see why they wouldnt draft an LB just because of him

MLB is not the reason the Broncos lost in the playoffs. The Broncos have bigger fish to fry in early rounds...especially since they evidently believe they already have two capable players (Brooking, Irving) at the position.

Bigdawg26
01-28-2013, 12:29 PM
Well, that is pretty incorrect. You don't know that they thought Irving was a first-round talent. In fact, it was Bill Parcells who thought Nate Irving was a first-round talent, despite the fact that he basically lost his leg in an automobile accident. The team obviously didn't have him rated that high since he was a third-round selection.

And why would the roster space be limited? We have a bunch of areas we can upgrade on this roster. ILB being one of the primary ones. Irving and Brooking aren't the kind of guys you want being the only dudes on your roster going into training camp at MIKE.

This is assuming something is done with DJ and Joe as well. We are not deep at LB. We have Trevathan, Johnson, Miller, Irving and Woodyard outside those two X-Factors above, which in my eyes are likely to be cap casualties (and I like both those players). Outside Miller, it really isn't that impressive. Another young player or veteran needs to be added into the mix to make the unit a whole lot better. If one of those guys goes down, we are SOL.

This! Although you gotta give credit to Woody. I think we have our starting OLB's.

Requiem
01-28-2013, 12:31 PM
This! Although you gotta give credit to Woody. I think we have our starting OLB's.

You are right. Wesley had a terrific year stepping up in place of DJ. I have his autograph on a big Broncos sticker decal on my fireproof safe. (Thanks again to fellow Maner underrated29 for hooking that up!)

pricejj
01-28-2013, 12:36 PM
This is assuming something is done with DJ and Joe as well. We are not deep at LB. We have Trevathan, Johnson, Miller, Irving and Woodyard outside those two X-Factors above, which in my eyes are likely to be cap casualties (and I like both those players). Outside Miller, it really isn't that impressive. Another young player or veteran needs to be added into the mix to make the unit a whole lot better. If one of those guys goes down, we are SOL.


WOLB:
1. Woodyard
2. D.J. Williams (adios amigo)
3. Trevathan

MLB:
1. Brooking
2. Irving
3. Steven Johnson or a restructured Joe Mays

SOLB:
1. Miller
2. X


Looks like all the Broncos need is a backup SOLB who will rarely see the field...hardly something you need to spend a 1st or 2nd round draft pick on.

BroncosfanGuy
01-28-2013, 12:37 PM
Why wouldn't you bring Brooking back? He led the Broncos to the #2 scoring Defense.

I think Irving's likely role will be similar to D.J.'s role when he came back...while hoping he can be the starter in the future.



It's highly unlikely D.J. will remain on the team as 3rd string MLB.



MLB is not the reason the Broncos lost in the playoffs. The Broncos have bigger fish to fry in early rounds...especially since they evidently believe they already have two capable players (Brooking, Irving) at the position.
This is all assuming that Brooking is retained (which I think is a long shot) and that Denver plans to keep Williams at Mike. Mike LB is definitely a need position whether Denver moves Irving to Mike, keeps Brooking, and/or retains Wiliams. For all we know Irving is viewed as depth at MLB. He hasn't done anything to show us that he's The Man there now. Brooking was a stopgap after the Mays experiment fell through.

Why wouldn't you bring Brooking back? He led the Broncos to the #2 scoring Defense.

no

Requiem
01-28-2013, 12:38 PM
Irving hasn't proved **** and the last time Keith Brooking was worth a **** Bill Clinton was getting dome in the Oval Office. You are off your rocker if you think we are going into training camp with the same personnel at MIKE as this past year.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 12:55 PM
Irving hasn't proved **** and the last time Keith Brooking was worth a **** Bill Clinton was getting dome in the Oval Office. You are off your rocker if you think we are going into training camp with the same personnel at MIKE as this past year.

Watch what you say about Brooking, he's the Broncos starting MLB, and played well this year for the NFL's #4 Defense. Haven't heard anything about him retiring.

I said the Irving move indicates that it's highly unlikely the Broncos spend a high draft pick on an MLB. I like his improvement.

Since you continue to maintain that the Broncos WILL spend a high draft pick (1st or 2nd rounder) on an MLB, who do you think it will be? Just curious. Would be mighty strange to see JDR roll out only Irving and a rookie at MLB in camp.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 01:01 PM
no

fixed (#4)

Requiem
01-28-2013, 01:04 PM
Since you continue to maintain that the Broncos WILL spend a high draft pick (1st or 2nd rounder) on an MLB, who do you think it will be? Just curious.

I said the Broncos will draft a LINEBACKER within the first three rounds. Who I think it will be is irrelevant.

Heyneck
01-28-2013, 01:10 PM
Always liked the Irvin pick. Hoped he would have been the MLB this season instead of Mays. Still want competition at MLB, but will not be mad at all if he wins it. This will only be his 3rd year, he got to at least learn from Brooking and not Mays. I actually like this if true a lot. Still need to get some prospect to develop and for depth reasons.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 01:12 PM
I said the Broncos will draft a LINEBACKER within the first three rounds. Who I think it will be is irrelevant.

All I was talking about was MLB's. That's kinda what this thread is about. They are going to have to do something about backup SOLB now...which is pretty irrevalent to this conversation.

Requiem
01-28-2013, 01:22 PM
All I was talking about was MLB's. That's kinda what this thread is about. They are going to have to do something about backup SOLB now...which is pretty irrevalent to this conversation.

Like I said, if you think that Keith and Nate are the only guys they will have give it a rip in 2013 at MIKE. . . more power to ya.

ZONA
01-28-2013, 01:27 PM
He's been here for two seasons and that's a pretty harsh critique.

Irving was *fantastic* on special teams this year. He was fast and tackled really really well. He's been a project for sure, but he consistently got better as the year wore on.

There were lingering injury issues in his rookie season and there have been scattered reports (listening to the local radio) that his first season was essentially a redshirt year. Coming into this season he clearly had issues adjusting to NFL game speed, but at least on special teams, that got better and better as the year went along.

I still have no idea if he'll ever see the field, but there are least reasons to be optimistic.

Al Wilson was in the probowl his 2nd year. Ray Lewis was in the probowl is 2nd year. Patrick Willis was in the probowl his 1st year. When you have a stud MLB, IMO, it's pretty evident right away. I'm not saying give up on Irving, he's good at ST's and could eventually work himself into a MLB backup role. But I think when you have a great MLB it's very clear early on.

broncocalijohn
01-28-2013, 01:27 PM
he'll get a chance. but there is too much talent in the draft at MLB to pass over.

exactly. Why would we take such a huge chance on such an important postition and not look for the upgrade? If DJ isnt the answer, we have a small window of opportunity to get to the Super Bowl. This past year, MLB hurt us before Brooking came in so I am not blaming him for the playoff loss. I just don't think Irving is going to be some big upgrade if we are looking for some "Romanowski" type upgrade to get to the SB.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 01:33 PM
Like I said, if you think that Keith and Nate are the only guys they will have give it a rip in 2013 at MIKE. . . more power to ya.

I didn't say that.

They probably keep Steven Johnson on at MLB too...maybe a low round draft pick...nothing in the first 3 rounds the way I see it. The Broncos have too many more crucial needs. I don't have to list them all here.

I just don't think Irving is going to be some big upgrade if we are looking for some "Romanowski" type upgrade to get to the SB.

Brooking is our Romanowski.

broncosteven
01-28-2013, 02:11 PM
Isn't Brooking a FA? I highly doubt they bring him back for anything more than depth, he is old but still better than Mays.

Unless they move Mays to DT and have him bulk up I bet he is gone. Irving and Trevathan got a lot of rotation time in but I don't remember Mays getting any snaps after being benched. Cut Mays and save some money, plus our dead space is freeing up so might as well put someone on it.

I would be surprised if we didn't go MLB in the 1st round. I wonder if they don't go through the FA pile and try to find a Vet to bring in cheap as depth at both MLB (could still be Brooking) and/or SAM.

The other possibility is they could try to restructure DJ and keep him at OLB which would give us quality depth, a Vet presence (if not the smartest dude on the planet off a football field) and some cap savings.

If it is true they moved Irving to MLB then they might be considering keeping DJ at a reduced salary.

cmhargrove
01-28-2013, 02:46 PM
They probably keep Steven Johnson on at MLB too...maybe a low round draft pick...nothing in the first 3 rounds the way I see it. The Broncos have too many more crucial needs. I don't have to list them all here.


Johnson actually looked really good last preseason. When I finished watching the games he was in, I actually believed in his potential.

I really want every Bronco to succeed, but I just don't see Irving as the type of player that will make us any better than we were last year. We need to get better in order to win a superbowl, and the MLB position is crucial. Irving isn't the guy. As stated before, I have actually seen Johnson make more preseason impact than Irving, but neither has had the chance to prove much in games that count.

Tombstone RJ
01-28-2013, 02:58 PM
The positives about Johnson is he has a nose for the ball, he's got good instincts. The problem with Johnson is he's just too slow, he simply doesn't have the speed an effective NFL mike needs. I'm pretty sure that if the Broncos draft an ILB then Johnson will not make the roster next season. That's too bad because I really like this kid.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 03:37 PM
Johnson actually looked really good last preseason. When I finished watching the games he was in, I actually believed in his potential.

I really want every Bronco to succeed, but I just don't see Irving as the type of player that will make us any better than we were last year. We need to get better in order to win a superbowl, and the MLB position is crucial. Irving isn't the guy. As stated before, I have actually seen Johnson make more preseason impact than Irving, but neither has had the chance to prove much in games that count.

Considering the list of probably alternatives at #28, the Broncos would be wise to draft Te'o or Minter if they are available.

Maybe they are just moving Irving, because he has shown enough ability that he could compete at MLB. He would never be of much value at SOLB behind Von Miller, so it's their way of putting him back in the mix, and letting him keep learning at MLB so he can be of value later on.

bap454
01-28-2013, 03:45 PM
Denver will draft a LB with one of their top three picks.

Couldn't agree more. Top loaded with great prospects at the position. Terry Pierce would be a steal in the second round and solidify the position for years to come.

bowtown
01-28-2013, 03:51 PM
I heard he met an awesome new girl online and has been motivated by talking to her late at night.

Cito Pelon
01-28-2013, 04:12 PM
MLB sure seems like a need in the draft, and early. Apparently there are some good prospects. Just seems like it would be a failure by the FO to go into the TC with Brooking, Mays, DJ, Johnson, and Irving as the only competition.

First, they're only gonna carry three MLB on the 53, and do they really want to roll the dice on those three MLB's to come out of that group? I doubt it.

But for all I know they may still like DJ at MLB/ILB (depending on the D packages they send out on the field). If they want to roll the dice on him at his salary, that would reduce the chance of a 1st rounder on a MLB. And in that case I guess they would stick with Irving and Johnson as the backups and as ST guys. They could maybe bring Brooking back after TC if there's an injury, or some other older player cut after TC.

Lestat
01-28-2013, 05:01 PM
this is who i want at MLB. hopefully he falls to round #2
http://binaryapi.ap.org/35215272aac744ff8b1bd22ed3c2bb0e/460x.jpg

Bmore Manning
01-28-2013, 05:38 PM
Those of you who follow my posts especially in the draft forum know I am a huge proponent of getting a MLB, personally Arthur Brown would be my selection in the first round!

But... I think there are some interesting signs we cannot ignore..

The interviews showed us last year, that this staff will interview who they like, I.E. Wolfe last year.. I think the writing is on the wall that we will be getting at least one safety maybe two early in the draft.

We also looked at a project OLB, this is someone who can take the place of DJ on the roster and be that coverage rotational SOLB.

This means we value coverage..

Irving could move back as at least depth and to compete for ILB. I think that's a real possibility..that doesn't mean we won't addresss MLB in the draft or free agency, but I don't think it's an absolute lock we are going MLB round one..

SonOfLe-loLang
01-28-2013, 06:04 PM
Those of you who follow my posts especially in the draft forum know I am a huge proponent of getting a MLB, personally Arthur Brown would be my selection in the first round!

But... I think there are some interesting signs we cannot ignore..

The interviews showed us last year, that this staff will interview who they like, I.E. Wolfe last year.. I think the writing is on the wall that we will be getting at least one safety maybe two early in the draft.

We also looked at a project OLB, this is someone who can take the place of DJ on the roster and be that coverage rotational SOLB.

This means we value coverage..

Irving could move back as at least depth and to compete for ILB. I think that's a real possibility..that doesn't mean we won't addresss MLB in the draft or free agency, but I don't think it's an absolute lock we are going MLB round one..

He sure is athletic, but, and granted i know nothing, he looks like he'd be better at weakside to me. He played a lot of games this year against spread teams and, from what i can find, spent a lot of time in nickel. When they were in more of a traditional base defense he looks like the type that gets caught out of position when you run at him, but is quick if you try to attack the edges.

Bmore Manning
01-28-2013, 06:18 PM
He sure is athletic, but, and granted i know nothing, he looks like he'd be better at weakside to me. He played a lot of games this year against spread teams and, from what i can find, spent a lot of time in nickel. When they were in more of a traditional base defense he looks like the type that gets caught out of position when you run at him, but is quick if you try to attack the edges.

Well that would be his value, nickel packages and presenting a coverage option on one side of the field. I'm not implying this is the guy they think can play MLB, but he could potentially be a very nice addition to a nickel package.

oubronco
01-28-2013, 06:30 PM
Denver will draft a LB with one of their top three picks.

2nd Round: Jon Bostic, Linebacker, Florida

Middle linebacker is arguably the Broncos' weakest position. The aging Keith Brooking will be a free agent this offseason, and behind him they have Joe Mays and Steven Johnson. Mays lost his job to Brooking last season and will be coming off a knee injury as well.

Denver could address this position in free agency by reaching out to a guy like Rey Maualuga of the Cincinnati Bengals or Tim Dobbins of the Houston Texans. Both would be a big upgrade over what the Broncos have.

Jon Bostic may be a bit of a reach in the second round, but he comes out of one of the nation's best defenses at Florida. He plays the run very well and is athletic enough to force turnovers, returning one of his two interceptions for a touchdown in his senior season.

If the Broncos were to draft Bostic, some would probably call it a reach, but the same thing was said last year about Derek Wolfe, and that turned out pretty good.

Bacchus
01-28-2013, 06:30 PM
I think so too. Irving will have to compete with whomever that is. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they let DJ go and I don't believe they will resign Brooking, if they do it will be another year.

I think they would be crazy not to re-sign Brooking to another one year contract. Great vet leader, low pay and he can startif he has to.

Lestat
01-28-2013, 06:43 PM
2nd Round: Jon Bostic, Linebacker, Florida

Middle linebacker is arguably the Broncos' weakest position. The aging Keith Brooking will be a free agent this offseason, and behind him they have Joe Mays and Steven Johnson. Mays lost his job to Brooking last season and will be coming off a knee injury as well.

Denver could address this position in free agency by reaching out to a guy like Rey Maualuga of the Cincinnati Bengals or Tim Dobbins of the Houston Texans. Both would be a big upgrade over what the Broncos have.

Jon Bostic may be a bit of a reach in the second round, but he comes out of one of the nation's best defenses at Florida. He plays the run very well and is athletic enough to force turnovers, returning one of his two interceptions for a touchdown in his senior season.

If the Broncos were to draft Bostic, some would probably call it a reach, but the same thing was said last year about Derek Wolfe, and that turned out pretty good.

Teo,Jackson,Minter,Olgetree,Bostic are the main guys i want at MLB.
Jackson is my favorite as i think Teo will be gone(and his hoax issues are kinda alarming)but also he's a big,mean, nasty complete LB who can thump in the middle.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-28-2013, 10:04 PM
2nd Round: Jon Bostic, Linebacker, Florida

Middle linebacker is arguably the Broncos' weakest position. The aging Keith Brooking will be a free agent this offseason, and behind him they have Joe Mays and Steven Johnson. Mays lost his job to Brooking last season and will be coming off a knee injury as well.

Denver could address this position in free agency by reaching out to a guy like Rey Maualuga of the Cincinnati Bengals or Tim Dobbins of the Houston Texans. Both would be a big upgrade over what the Broncos have.

Jon Bostic may be a bit of a reach in the second round, but he comes out of one of the nation's best defenses at Florida. He plays the run very well and is athletic enough to force turnovers, returning one of his two interceptions for a touchdown in his senior season.

If the Broncos were to draft Bostic, some would probably call it a reach, but the same thing was said last year about Derek Wolfe, and that turned out pretty good.

Rey Maualuga has been exposed badly. He really, really sucks.

maher_tyler
01-28-2013, 10:37 PM
he has as much of a chance of becoming the starting MLB for the Broncos next year as I do becoming the King of France....

We all said the same thing about Mays after last season. Then we re-signed him and he was the starting MLB week 1.

Bigdawg26
01-28-2013, 10:44 PM
Yeah I really like Bostic from florida too in the second round. I'm a little off subject but another guy I really like is Eric Reid in the first round at FS. They could be two starters that could really improve our young core foundation on defense.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 10:53 PM
Teo,Jackson,Minter,Olgetree,Bostic are the main guys i want at MLB.
Jackson is my favorite as i think Teo will be gone(and his hoax issues are kinda alarming)but also he's a big,mean, nasty complete LB who can thump in the middle.

Jackson is not in this draft. He's the #1 rated ILB in the 2014 draft.

enjolras
01-28-2013, 11:30 PM
MLB is not the reason the Broncos lost in the playoffs. The Broncos have bigger fish to fry in early rounds...especially since they evidently believe they already have two capable players (Brooking, Irving) at the position.

It sure didn't help. Ray Rice went for 131 yards on 30 carries. Furthermore our lack of range at middle linebacker is the reason (I believe) that the defense played with the safeties up so much of the game. They risked the deep ball against man-to-man coverage to cover up for their extreme hole in the middle of their linebacking corp.

Hell all season the interior defensive tackles played a conservative style designed to plug holes and force all of the action to the much more talented outside backers.

In short: The defense was far less dynamic than it could have been because one position on the field was far less competent than the other 10 guys. They started the year with Joe Mays for crying out loud. If that's not a cry for help, I don't know what is.

There isn't a more pressing need on this team than to fill that hole at middle linebacker. It's the most important position, by a mile, in the 4-3.

ZONA
01-28-2013, 11:31 PM
Rey Maualuga has been exposed badly. He really, really sucks.

He is sorta what he was in college. If you get too close, he'll hit ya, but he's not great in space. He's not what we need. We need somebody who is really smart, good in space.

pricejj
01-28-2013, 11:37 PM
We need somebody who is really smart, good in space.

We need Spock.

enjolras
01-28-2013, 11:41 PM
Al Wilson was in the probowl his 2nd year. Ray Lewis was in the probowl is 2nd year. Patrick Willis was in the probowl his 1st year. When you have a stud MLB, IMO, it's pretty evident right away. I'm not saying give up on Irving, he's good at ST's and could eventually work himself into a MLB backup role. But I think when you have a great MLB it's very clear early on.

London Fletcher, Lawrence Timmons, Desmond Bishop...inside backers that spring to mind who didn't flash right away.