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lonestar
01-23-2013, 01:03 PM
Was answering in the Clady thread and it disappeared

So here is my answer.

Leave the cap stuff to eddiemac he is usually right on and doesnt include blind speculation about what the owner will or wont do.

Not blind speculation but the facts ver the past few years going back to at least Josh maybe even the last year under mikey, we have been under the cap..

Remember all those stories about Pat being broke. While my friend they started then.

We had 11 and change inside that 18.5 that we are under the cap this year, that 11 came from last year. Being under last years cap.

Facts are facts.

Prove me wrong.

As for what he will do this year not sure but MAX we had as of the EOY was 18.5. That is a reported fact from sources other than Eddiemac.

While I have load s of respect for him, I also know the research I did at taphan time we had 35 player under contract for 2013. With only 18.5 mil to spend to round out the roster.

Even if we cut dumb ass Williams that ony saves us 4.3 million. His salary of 6 less his prorated 1.7 bonus money.

While that is another 4.3 you will spend about 700k or more to replace him. So the bet net is 3.6.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Kaylore
01-23-2013, 01:22 PM
You started a new thread to continue an argument?

ColoradoDarin
01-23-2013, 01:30 PM
You started a new thread to continue an argument?

Derp is derp.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/dhaus5650/4JUmy.gif

RhymesayersDU
01-23-2013, 01:36 PM
Cool story bro.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 01:45 PM
You started a new thread to continue an argument?

no to continue debate..

someone ask a question I answered it..

if they moved the thread then let them merge it if they deleted a thread that had a good discussion going on, I'd like to know why..

DENVERDUI55
01-23-2013, 01:59 PM
Lonestar say we let Clady walk who do you want to replace him?

DarkHorse30
01-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Was answering in the Clady thread and it disappeared

So here is my answer.



Not blind speculation but the facts ver the past few years going back to at least Josh maybe even the last year under mikey, we have been under the cap..

Remember all those stories about Pat being broke. While my friend they started then.

We had 11 and change inside that 18.5 that we are under the cap this year, that 11 came from last year. Being under last years cap.

Facts are facts.

Prove me wrong.

As for what he will do this year not sure but MAX we had as of the EOY was 18.5. That is a reported fact from sources other than Eddiemac.

While I have load s of respect for him, I also know the research I did at taphan time we had 35 player under contract for 2013. With only 18.5 mil to spend to round out the roster.

Even if we cut dumb ass Williams that ony saves us 4.3 million. His salary of 6 less his prorated 1.7 bonus money.

While that is another 4.3 you will spend about 700k or more to replace him. So the bet net is 3.6.

Show me where I'm wrong.

I missed the other thread. What is the point of your thread title and your first post? I'm unclear because Clady is not mentioned in the post

BroncoBuff
01-23-2013, 02:44 PM
You started a new thread to continue an argument?

Agree it's a lame premise, but this thread could help form a consensus going forward.

Ryan Clady was named AP 1st-Team All Pro (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21543584/2012-all-pro-team-announced) for 2012 - ahead of Joe Thomas - and to the Pro Bowl team. Most agree you never let an elite talent just walk when the franchise tag is available. So, notwithstanding lonetstar's needlessly complicated and out of context cap numbers, the offseason questions about whether Clady was overrated-on the downside-not that great have been settled.

Now can we all agree we should either PAY him or TAG him?

lonestar
01-23-2013, 02:59 PM
Lonestar say we let Clady walk who do you want to replace him?

I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

lonestar
01-23-2013, 02:59 PM
Lonestar say we let Clady walk who do you want to replace him?

I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

loborugger
01-23-2013, 03:05 PM
You started a new thread to continue an argument?

You may have an issue with the interwebz when...

bowtown
01-23-2013, 03:06 PM
http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/you+_d2f64f9e88c38004e277694640315a5e.png

lonestar
01-23-2013, 03:09 PM
Agree it's a lame premise, but this thread could help form a consensus going forward.

Ryan Clady was named AP 1st-Team All Pro (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21543584/2012-all-pro-team-announced) for 2012 - ahead of Joe Thomas - and to the Pro Bowl team. Most agree you never let an elite talent just walk when the franchise tag is available. So, notwithstanding lonetstar's needlessly complicated and out of context cap numbers, the offseason questions about whether Clady was overrated-on the downside-not that great have been settled.

Now can we all agree we should either PAY him or TAG him?

Personally I'd never pay him long term..

if any thing tag him while we train a newbie to learn the position..

while he is "voted" in tot eh pro-bowl we all know it is a popularity contest..

I'm happy for him, but he has not been that "great" OT since his knee issue a few years ago..

his run blocking is not elite and he gets beat by speed rushers something he did not do in his first years.. now does that mean he gave up sacks, no but Manning has "risen all boats" a phrase most have used on this site since he got here..

IMO he can be replaced with a rookie and TAG him if you have to.. he simply is not worth 12 million a year long term..

SonOfLe-loLang
01-23-2013, 03:11 PM
When the window to a championship is closing, I hate letting talent go just to replace it with a possible similar talent (especially when its just a money saving manuever.) If you think you can live without Ryan Clady because LT isn't important, and spend your resources elsewhere, then fine. But letting someone go just to make a lateral move (spending a 1st rounder in this case) when finances are the only reason, seems like a **** idea.

Mountain Bronco
01-23-2013, 03:49 PM
that we have went to

...

Mountain Bronco
01-23-2013, 03:51 PM
if any thing


...

cmhargrove
01-23-2013, 04:01 PM
I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

What is it with bat-**** crazy posts and threads today? There has to be something in the water...

You don't go spend $18 mil per year on Manning then cobble together an offensive line. Remember that Peyton chose us, and has the option to walk away if he wants. There is no way that Elway and Bowlen will take away our pieces of the O-line that work. If anything, Kuper's injury puts the Broncos FO in a much more difficult bargaining position with Clady. Mess with too many pieces, and Manning's neck might get snapped off.

You will be paying starter money to any FA Left Tackle in the offseason - there is no good reason not to re-sign Clady.

TheReverend
01-23-2013, 04:22 PM
I like the use of punctuation in the thread title.

TheReverend
01-23-2013, 04:23 PM
I like the use of punctuation in the thread title.

broncosteven
01-23-2013, 04:33 PM
What is it with bat-**** crazy posts and threads today? There has to be something in the water...

You don't go spend $18 mil per year on Manning then cobble together an offensive line. Remember that Peyton chose us, and has the option to walk away if he wants. There is no way that Elway and Bowlen will take away our pieces of the O-line that work. If anything, Kuper's injury puts the Broncos FO in a much more difficult bargaining position with Clady. Mess with too many pieces, and Manning's neck might get snapped off.

You will be paying starter money to any FA Left Tackle in the offseason - there is no good reason not to re-sign Clady.

Everyone knows that rookies can be drafted and step in and play at Pro Bowl levels right away, just look at how it has worked out for duh bears.

Football players are all interchangeable parts. Anyone coming out of college is equal or better to proven vets who have made pro bowls and stuff.

DUH....

bowtown
01-23-2013, 06:11 PM
Clady bois.

Heyneck
01-23-2013, 06:30 PM
yeah! let clady walk! Draft our next great rookie OT! We could always luck out and have a George Foster type player fall right on our lap!!

oubronco
01-23-2013, 06:37 PM
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/did%20not%20read/grand/didnt_read_gif_kgk9.gif

lonestar
01-23-2013, 07:39 PM
When the window to a championship is closing, I hate letting talent go just to replace it with a possible similar talent (especially when its just a money saving manuever.) If you think you can live without Ryan Clady because LT isn't important, and spend your resources elsewhere, then fine. But letting someone go just to make a lateral move (spending a 1st rounder in this case) when finances are the only reason, seems like a **** idea.

Was Franklin a first rounder?

It is not just saving a few bucks but saving perhaps as much as 45 million over the life of the contract and actually allowing the team to pay for other players also.

It may not be ideal but. The odds of John spending 70 million on a guy that IS NOT the guy he was before his dumb ass move and injury playing basketball in the off season.

Odds are now that he is a UFA that some bottom feeder of a team will indeed out bid us.

If this was a premium position like it was ten years ago then maybe. But the majority of our passing game is shotgun or fast passing that the ball is gone in less than 3 seconds. Almost no 5 steps drop backs and NO seven steps.

With the advent of fast paced offenses it will become even less important. The defenses can not subsistute so they get tired faster thus even less pass rush.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 09:18 PM
What is it with bat-**** crazy posts and threads today? There has to be something in the water...

You don't go spend $18 mil per year on Manning then cobble together an offensive line. Remember that Peyton chose us, and has the option to walk away if he wants. There is no way that Elway and Bowlen will take away our pieces of the O-line that work. If anything, Kuper's injury puts the Broncos FO in a much more difficult bargaining position with Clady. Mess with too many pieces, and Manning's neck might get snapped off.

You will be paying starter money to any FA Left Tackle in the offseason - there is no good reason not to re-sign Clady.

Yes ther is a reason we do not have the money. He will cost cap wise between 9 and 12 million a year. Since we have less than 19 million to sign as many as 25 more players to fill out the roster. Your going to spend over half of it for one spot?


Not likely. Show me the money your going to pay him with.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 09:29 PM
Everyone knows that rookies can be drafted and step in and play at Pro Bowl levels right away, just look at how it has worked out for duh bears.

Football players are all interchangeable parts. Anyone coming out of college is equal or better to proven vets who have made pro bowls and stuff.

DUH....

Get a clue. No one has said they would play at pro bowl levels.

If anything I have said that having an elite OLT is not as necessary as before.

We do not have a QB that hangs on t the ball like some other teams.

We have a guy that throws more from the shot gun and rarely takes long drops when he plays under center.

He gets rid of the ball fast.

And even your God Clady has been beat by speed rushers. He is not great at run blocking and his performance since his knee operation leaves a lot to be desired.

Last year he led the league in holding calls. Sure it was a different QB which in itself shows that Manning has risen all boats. We flat do not need to have 5 all pros in front of him like you seem to be implying.

Now I would love to have tha many as I'm very firm in my belief that you win or lose on the LOS. But we will not be able to outbid bottom dwellers for his contract we flat do not have the money to do so.

If we did then I'm all for giving him a decent new contact. But he will eat more than half of our cap space this year and leave the other 8-9 million to sign some 25 other player to fill out the roster.

Do you see that happening. Or just want to be a wisea SS some more.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 09:31 PM
yeah! let clady walk! Draft our next great rookie OT! We could always luck out and have a George Foster type player fall right on our lap!!

Mikey is in WAS not making choices here.

So far how many duds has John picked. Until he does worry then.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 09:37 PM
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/did%20not%20read/grand/didnt_read_gif_kgk9.gif

Funny man would think you might learn so,etching.

Your loss. Not mine.

Missouribronc
01-23-2013, 09:58 PM
I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

That's not a myth. And Denver can afford Clady. They offered him a deal on the low end after a sub par year. He took a gamble and said no, and then played his ass off and is now recognized as one of the best in the game.

What a stupid thread.

broncosteven
01-23-2013, 09:58 PM
Yes ther is a reason we do not have the money. He will cost cap wise between 9 and 12 million a year. Since we have less than 19 million to sign as many as 25 more players to fill out the roster. Your going to spend over half of it for one spot?


Not likely. Show me the money your going to pay him with.

Dummerville should restructure or extend, he is costing us 16 mill against the cap next year if I got the right info from Spotrac. If they can get him to extend out another 3-4 years they should be able to trim his cap hit down at least 6mill or more but Eddie Mac would know better than me. Plus this would be a good year to hit up Elvis, he had a good year but no where near what he had when he signed his last deal, throw in the 2 sub par years after getting paid and he should be cool if he wants to win.

They need to resign Clady, we are in an all or nothing position once we signed Manning, to let Clady walk and develop his replacement over the next couple years would be insanity.

Only other real option would be if they were real high on Franklin, move him to LT, shifted Beadles to RT (or draft a new RT) then draft a G. They still need to figure what to do at C so we could have a totally different OL where consistency is prized.

There is money to be moved around, I trust the FO to squeeze it out.

I am not expecting a big money FA Henry Melton type signing this year though. I bet we keep what we have and hope to draft well or maybe make a trade or 2. We do have a very good young core everywhere except for PM.

If you wanted to cut someone to save money cut Doom Not Clady.

Heyneck
01-23-2013, 10:01 PM
Mikey is in WAS not making choices here.

So far how many duds has John picked. Until he does worry then.

Too early to tell, but, Nate Irving hasn't panned out the way expected. Julius Thomas has been a huge disappointment. That there is a 3rd and 4th round pick. Pretty good rounds too pick up talent if you ask me. This past class was pure gold, even though I still don't agree with the Brock pick being in a win now situation. Too small of a sample. Mike had great drafts too! But sucked big time for half of it. I really think John got lucky with getting a top 2 pick last year. But you have to give credit for pulling the trigger on Von. The rest of the draft was... ok.

Anyway, this ain't about the FO capabilities of drafting talent. This is about letting an All-Pro sure thing talent at LT go. You get a QB, then a LT, followed by the QB headhunter and then the CB. Plus we have a QB with a head duct taped to his neck. You think Manning is going to be ok with the FO getting rid of his blindside protector that allowed only 1 sack? Sure... lets give that job to a rookie! You are delusional to think the FO wont retain Clady one way or the other.

mwill07
01-23-2013, 10:03 PM
When the window to a championship is closing, I hate letting talent go just to replace it with a possible similar talent (especially when its just a money saving manuever.) If you think you can live without Ryan Clady because LT isn't important, and spend your resources elsewhere, then fine. But letting someone go just to make a lateral move (spending a 1st rounder in this case) when finances are the only reason, seems like a **** idea.

This is a good point. Any high draft lick spent to replace Clady is a high draft pick not spent on MLB or DT.

The incremental cost of Clady vs a FA tackle...not really interested. I'd rather pay Clady $12m vs some scrub $8m, especially in a time when we are gearing up for a championship run with a 37 yr old HoF QB.

Heyneck
01-23-2013, 10:07 PM
Dummerville should restructure or extend, he is costing us 16 mill against the cap next year if I got the right info from Spotrac. If they can get him to extend out another 3-4 years they should be able to trim his cap hit down at least 6mill or more but Eddie Mac would know better than me. Plus this would be a good year to hit up Elvis, he had a good year but no where near what he had when he signed his last deal, throw in the 2 sub par years after getting paid and he should be cool if he wants to win.

They need to resign Clady, we are in an all or nothing position once we signed Manning, to let Clady walk and develop his replacement over the next couple years would be insanity.

Only other real option would be if they were real high on Franklin, move him to LT, shifted Beadles to RT (or draft a new RT) then draft a G. They still need to figure what to do at C so we could have a totally different OL where consistency is prized.

There is money to be moved around, I trust the FO to squeeze it out.

I am not expecting a big money FA Henry Melton type signing this year though. I bet we keep what we have and hope to draft well or maybe make a trade or 2. We do have a very good young core everywhere except for PM.

If you wanted to cut someone to save money cut Doom Not Clady.

Don't got how doom gets so much unappreciated by some around here. Look his stats. His career up to this point is at the pace of a top 10, or even more all time rusher if he keeps it up late into his career. We struggled for years to get a pass rush from the edge. Now we have 2. If we get someone that can put constant heat up the middle... fireworks!!! Do agree that he has to get that figure down from 16mil though.

Jason7730
01-23-2013, 10:47 PM
That's not a myth. And Denver can afford Clady. They offered him a deal on the low end after a sub par year. He took a gamble and said no, and then played his ass off and is now recognized as one of the best in the game.

What a stupid thread.

^ +1

lonestar
01-23-2013, 10:52 PM
That's not a myth. And Denver can afford Clady. They offered him a deal on the low end after a sub par year. He took a gamble and said no, and then played his ass off and is now recognized as one of the best in the game.

What a stupid thread.

Here are the facts.

We had as a month ago 35 players under contract for 2013.
At that time we had 18.5 million under the cap.

We have since signed ten players to future contracts money unknown to me.

Since the roster is 53 and we had 18.5 to spend if Pat allows them to spend every dime, and since he has not the past four years there is little to elite he will this year .

We need 53 to fill out the roster. Means that 18 players have to fit under the cap numbers plus anther 7-10 that will hit IR before the end of the season.. All of which are going to have to be paid and still stay under the cap.

If you spend 12 million n Clady. 10 in salary and 2 in prorated bonus money. How are you going to to be able to afford to fill it the roster.

MO your smart where is the money going to come from.

Or do yu think all of those almost 30 players are going to fit into 6 million dollar..

Again IF Pat allows them to max there salary cap. Which he has not in at least 4 years.

Show me the mney MO.

I know they tried to sign him cheap last year. It back fired and now some other team will out bid them plain and simple

Unless he takes the same contract they offered him last year or less.

What are those odds?

Show me the money MO.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 10:58 PM
Dummerville should restructure or extend, he is costing us 16 mill against the cap next year if I got the right info from Spotrac. If they can get him to extend out another 3-4 years they should be able to trim his cap hit down at least 6mill or more but Eddie Mac would know better than me. Plus this would be a good year to hit up Elvis, he had a good year but no where near what he had when he signed his last deal, throw in the 2 sub par years after getting paid and he should be cool if he wants to win.

They need to resign Clady, we are in an all or nothing position once we signed Manning, to let Clady walk and develop his replacement over the next couple years would be insanity.

Only other real option would be if they were real high on Franklin, move him to LT, shifted Beadles to RT (or draft a new RT) then draft a G. They still need to figure what to do at C so we could have a totally different OL where consistency is prized.

There is money to be moved around, I trust the FO to squeeze it out.

I am not expecting a big money FA Henry Melton type signing this year though. I bet we keep what we have and hope to draft well or maybe make a trade or 2. We do have a very good young core everywhere except for PM.

If you wanted to cut someone to save money cut Doom Not Clady.

Pretty sane post unlike most in this thread BUT. If you cut Doom he had about 5 mil each year in prorated bonus money that would come due. So that really is not an option.
2013 12,000,000 423,000 4,525,000 16,948,000

. Looks the same way each year. Close enough to 5 mil per year to kill any savings.

Perhaps they can talk him into redoing the contract but what incentive does he have. The only me would to be get more money up front and then THaT proration counts agains the cap also.

Good try though most folks just like to call names. Yet have no ideas other than hysterical rants about how we must have him.

Natedogg
01-23-2013, 11:02 PM
lone "good post. i don't watch games not broadcast in texas" star.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 11:04 PM
^ +1

Really a great post why not try to refute me instead.

lonestar
01-23-2013, 11:11 PM
lone "good post. i don't watch games not broadcast in texas" star.

Actually saw them all this year, most were on either local TV or on CBS east or west coast feeds. I only had to watch one on direct ticket.

Kind of a waste my money on direct ticket this year.

So what was your point?

Why not add something worth reading instead of being.

DBroncos4life
01-23-2013, 11:32 PM
1. Justin Boren
2. Paul Cornick
3. Ben Garland
4. Gerell Robinson
5. Quentin Saulsberry
6. Aaron Brewer
7. Omar Bolden
8. Brock Osweiler
9. Ronnie Hillman
10. Trindon Holliday
11. Philip Blake
12. Sealver Siliga
13. Duke Ihenacho
14. Danny Trevathan
15. Malik Jackson
16. Steven Johnson
17. Jeremiah Johnson
18. Mario Fannin
19. Derek Wolfe
20. Julius Thomas
21. Virgil Green
22. Quinton Carter
23. Chris Harris
24. Nate Irving
25. Rahim Moore
26. C.J Davis
27. Eric Davis
28. Zane Beadles
29. JD Walton
30. Jacob Hester
31. Manuel Ramirez
32. Orlando Franklin
33. Demaryius Thomas
34. Andre Caldwell
35. Robert Ayers
36. Caleb Hanie
37. Knowshon Moreno
38. Wesley Woodyard
39. Mike Adams
40 Von Miller
41. Willis McGahee
42. Jacob Tamme
43. Matt Prater
44. Joel Dreessen
45. Joe Mays
46. Chris Kuper
47. DJ Williams
48. Champ Bailey
49 Elvis Dumervil
50. Peyton Manning

If I read one more quote with Lonestar saying we only have 35 or 37 players under contract I'm going to flip out. All those players have a contract for NEXT SEASON

24champ
01-24-2013, 12:13 AM
Personally I'd never pay him long term..

if any thing tag him while we train a newbie to learn the position..

while he is "voted" in tot eh pro-bowl we all know it is a popularity contest..

I'm happy for him, but he has not been that "great" OT since his knee issue a few years ago..

his run blocking is not elite and he gets beat by speed rushers something he did not do in his first years.. now does that mean he gave up sacks, no but Manning has "risen all boats" a phrase most have used on this site since he got here..

IMO he can be replaced with a rookie ]and TAG him if you have to.. he simply is not worth 12 million a year long term..


http://gifsoup.com/view2/1175938/waterboy-lt-o.gif

Mhmmm. Which brings me to my next point. Don't smoke crack.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 01:34 AM
1. Justin Boren
2. Paul Cornick
3. Ben Garland
4. Gerell Robinson
5. Quentin Saulsberry
6. Aaron Brewer
7. Omar Bolden
8. Brock Osweiler
9. Ronnie Hillman
10. Trindon Holliday
11. Philip Blake
12. Sealver Siliga
13. Duke Ihenacho
14. Danny Trevathan
15. Malik Jackson
16. Steven Johnson
17. Jeremiah Johnson
18. Mario Fannin
19. Derek Wolfe
20. Julius Thomas
21. Virgil Green
22. Quinton Carter
23. Chris Harris
24. Nate Irving
25. Rahim Moore
26. C.J Davis
27. Eric Davis
28. Zane Beadles
29. JD Walton
30. Jacob Hester
31. Manuel Ramirez
32. Orlando Franklin
33. Demaryius Thomas
34. Andre Caldwell
35. Robert Ayers
36. Caleb Hanie
37. Knowshon Moreno
38. Wesley Woodyard
39. Mike Adams
40 Von Miller
41. Willis McGahee
42. Jacob Tamme
43. Matt Prater
44. Joel Dreessen
45. Joe Mays
46. Chris Kuper
47. DJ Williams
48. Champ Bailey
49 Elvis Dumervil
50. Peyton Manning

If I read one more quote with Lonestar saying we only have 35 or 37 players under contract I'm going to flip out. All those players have a contract for NEXT SEASON
So show me the money. They are owed.

At the time I did the numbers there were 35. And since then to the best of my knowledge they have signed 10 player to future contracts.


If they signed more folks than the 35 accounted for then those dollars have to come out of the cap money of 18.5.

Show me how much they signed for and how much we have left.

This is what sport track has.

Player Contract End Year Free Agent
Peyton Manning at
Quarterback
5 yr/$96,000,000
2016
2017
Elvis Dumervil at
Defensive End
6 yr/$61,500,000
2015
2016
Champ Bailey at
Cornerback
4 yr/$43,000,000
2014
2015
D.J. Williams at
Linebacker
6 yr/$32,000,000
2013
2014
Chris Kuper at
Guard
6 yr/$28,012,000
2015
2016
Von Miller at
Linebacker
4 yr/$21,000,380
2014
2015
Ryan Clady at
Tackle
5 yr/$17,500,000
2012
2013
Knowshon Moreno at
Running Back
5 yr/$16,700,000
2013
2015
Robert Ayers at
Defensive End
5 yr/$15,500,000
2013
2014
Matt Prater at
Kicker
4 yr/$13,000,000
2015
2016
Demaryius Thomas at
Wide Receiver
5 yr/$12,155,000
2014
2015
Joe Mays at
Linebacker
3 yr/$12,000,000
2014
2015
Willis McGahee at
Running Back
4 yr/$9,500,000
2014
2015
Joel Dreessen at
Tight End
3 yr/$8,500,000
2014
2015
Jacob Tamme at
Tight End
3 yr/$8,000,000
2014
2015
Derek Wolfe at
Defensive End
4 yr/$6,247,675
2015
2016
Kevin Vickerson at
Defensive Tackle
2 yr/$4,750,000
2012
2013
Rahim Moore at
Safety
4 yr/$4,448,000
2014
2015
Orlando Franklin at
Tackle
4 yr/$4,350,000
2014
2015
Zane Beadles at
Guard
4 yr/$4,171,000
2013
2014
Mike Adams at
Safety
2 yr/$4,000,000
2013
2014
Tracy Porter at
Cornerback
1 yr/$4,000,000
2012
2013
Wesley Woodyard at
Linebacker
2 yr/$3,500,000
2013
2014
Brock Osweiler at
Quarterback
4 yr/$3,100,000
2015
2016
Ronnie Hillman at
Running Back
4 yr/$3,000,000
2015
2016
Nate Irving at
Linebacker
4 yr/$2,735,000
2014
2015
J.D. Walton at
Center
4 yr/$2,588,500
2013
2014
Omar Bolden at
Cornerback
4 yr/$2,574,428
2015
2016
Philip Blake at
Center
4 yr/$2,554,000
2015
2016
Eric Decker at
Wide Receiver
4 yr/$2,522,150
2013
2014
Quinton Carter at
Safety
4 yr/$2,490,000
2014
2015
Julius Thomas at
Tight End
4 yr/$2,420,000
2014
2015
Malik Jackson at
Defensive End
4 yr/$2,313,600
2015
2016
Caleb Hanie at
Quarterback
2 yr/$2,250,000
2013
2014
David Bruton at
Safety
4 yr/$2,232,400
2012
2013
Danny Trevathan at
Linebacker
4 yr/$2,204,072
2015
2016
Virgil Green at
Tight End
4 yr/$2,160,000
2014
2015
Andre Caldwell at
Wide Receiver
2 yr/$1,800,000
2013
2014
Ty Warren at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$1,500,000
2012
2013
Steven Johnson at
Linebacker
3 yr/$1,452,000
2014
2015
Aaron Brewer at
Long Snapper, Linebacker
3 yr/$1,444,000
2014
2015
Jacob Hester at
Running Back
2 yr/$1,415,000
2013
2014
Manuel Ramirez at
Guard
2 yr/$1,415,000
2013
2014
Mario Fannin at
Running Back
3 yr/$1,405,000
2013
2014
Chris Harris at
Cornerback
3 yr/$1,398,000
2013
2014
Matt Willis at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$1,260,000
2012
2013
Chris Gronkowski at
Running Back
3 yr/$1,215,000
2012
2013
C.J. Davis at
Guard
2 yr/$1,020,000
2013
2014
Justin Bannan at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$1,000,000
2012
2013
Keith Brooking at
Linebacker
1 yr/$1,000,000
2012
2013
Brandon Stokley at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$925,000
2012
2013
Gerell Robinson at
Wide Receiver
2 yr/$900,000
2014
2015
Jim Leonhard at
Safety
1 yr/$890,000
2012
2013
Trindon Holliday at
Kick Returner
2 yr/$870,000
2013
2014
Sealver Siliga at
Defensive Tackle
2 yr/$870,000
2013
2014
Dan Koppen at
Center
1 yr/$825,000
2012
2013
Jason Hunter at
Defensive End
1 yr/$700,000
2012
2013
Tony Carter at
Cornerback
1 yr/$615,000
2012
2013
Lance Ball at
Running Back
1 yr/$540,000
2012
2013
Chris Clark at
Tackle
1 yr/$540,000
2012
2013
Britton Colquitt at
Punter
1 yr/$540,000
2012
2013
Duke Ihenacho at
Cornerback
1 yr/$480,000
2013
2014
Jeremiah Johnson at
Running Back
1 yr/$480,000
2013
2014
Mitch Unrein at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$415,000
2012
2013
Ben Garland at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Quentin Saulsberry at
Center
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Paul Cornick at
Tackle
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Justin Boren at
Guard
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Mario Butler at
Cornerback
1 yr/TBD
2013
2014
Greg Orton at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/TBD
2013
2014
Dead Money / Buyouts
Andre' Goodman at
Cornerback
2 yr/$1,200,000
2013
Coryell Judie at
Cornerback
2 yr/$10,000
2013
Eric Page at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$1,085
2012
Ty Warren at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$1,250,000
2012
Jabar Gaffney at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$375,000
2012
Eric Olsen at
Guard
1 yr/$53,000
2012
Perrish Cox at
Cornerback
1 yr/$101,000
2012
Darcel McBath at
Safety
2 yr/$772,000
2012
Richard Quinn at
Tight End
2 yr/$465,000
2012
Lonie Paxton at
Long Snapper
2 yr/$365,200
2013
Austin Wuebbels at
Guard
1 yr/$1,334
2012
Elliot Coffey at
Linebacker
2 yr/$3,000
2013
Anthony Miller at
Tight End
2 yr/$5,000
2013
Mike Remmers at
Tackle
2 yr/$5,000
2013
Drayton Florence at
Cornerback
1 yr/$1,500,000
2012
Duke Ihenacho at
Cornerback
1 yr/$8,500
2012
Jerry Franklin at
Linebacker
1 yr/$10,000
2012
Ben Garland at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$666
2012
Wayne Tribue at
Guard
1 yr/$2,000
2012
Syd'Quan Thompson at
Cornerback
1 yr/$28,424
2012
Gerell Robinson at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$3,500
2012
Jamie Blatnick at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$10,000
2012
Duke Ihenacho at
Cornerback
1 yr/$121,875
2012




Sorry but doing this on an iPhone this the best I can do for now

Requiem
01-24-2013, 07:05 AM
The reason I deleted the thread I started on Clady is because lonestar acted like a petulant ass continuously bickering with people just for the Hell of it. Over a dozen posters on this board have shown him the # of players we have under contract or came up with scenarios where the Broncos can fiddle with their roster and cap (as they have in years past) in order to retain Clady, re-sign UFA, RFA, ERFA and our draft class -- yet he continues to troll and spew nonsense whenever he feels it is appropriate.

The bottom line is this: Lonestar never liked the Clady selecton (despite not watching college football) because he came from Boise State and he questioned the level of competition he faced. [He also called Elvis Dumervil a short midget, who wouldn't ever last in the pros.] Unfortunately, in five years with the Broncos -- Clady has started every game, made 3 Pro-Bowls and been named All-Pro twice. Obviously his worse season was in a shortended off-season due to an injury, but he came back and proved his worth this year.

To even try and suggest that the Broncos would rid themselves of one of their best players on the team just to replace him with a rookie LT is absolutely ludicrous. Furthermore, saying that LT isn't as important to our team because we have Manning is one of the most stupid football takes ever espoused on the Orange Mane.

TROLL.

mwill07
01-24-2013, 07:35 AM
Here's how I think it works:

2012 cap was $120M. Our 2012 salary was $120,335,684. tack on $4.68M in dead money and $8.42M in IR'ed salaries, we were at $133.4M. but that's OK because we rolled $26M over from 2011.

That left us essentially $12.6M under the cap, which rolls over into next year.

Clady's 2012 cap number was $5.8M. so, to get him to $12M, we are only going to have to find roughly an additional $6M.

Some guys that could be let go, freeing up some salary:

DJ Williams: 2013 cap: $7.7M. 2013 is his final year under contract - not a whole lot of signing bonus to bring forward.
Tracy Porter: 2012 UFA. his 2012 cap hit was $4M.
Caleb Hanie: 1 year left @ $1M. no signing bonus.
Matt Willis: 2012 salary of $1.26M.
I think Drayton Florence and his $1.5M comes off the books.
Ty Warrens $1.5M most certainly comes off.
Joe Mays has a $4M salary with very little signing bonus to pro-rate. I'm not sure what the impact of cutting him would be. I think his salary doesn't count, but bonus money paid does, which would be about $330K in dead money.

That's about $19M right there. Combine that with the $12M that rolls over, and we have roughly $31M to play with. I'm quite sure they could figure out how to allocate $6M to Clady, and use the remaining $25M to sign rookies and a key FA or two.

NickStixx
01-24-2013, 08:43 AM
The reason I deleted the thread I started on Clady is because lonestar acted like a petulant ass continuously bickering with people just for the Hell of it. Over a dozen posters on this board have shown him the # of players we have under contract or came up with scenarios where the Broncos can fiddle with their roster and cap (as they have in years past) in order to retain Clady, re-sign UFA, RFA, ERFA and our draft class -- yet he continues to troll and spew nonsense whenever he feels it is appropriate.

The bottom line is this: Lonestar never liked the Clady selecton (despite not watching college football) because he came from Boise State and he questioned the level of competition he faced. [He also called Elvis Dumervil a short midget, who wouldn't ever last in the pros.] Unfortunately, in five years with the Broncos -- Clady has started every game, made 3 Pro-Bowls and been named All-Pro twice. Obviously his worse season was in a shortended off-season due to an injury, but he came back and proved his worth this year.

To even try and suggest that the Broncos would rid themselves of one of their best players on the team just to replace him with a rookie LT is absolutely ludicrous. Furthermore, saying that LT isn't as important to our team because we have Manning is one of the most stupid football takes ever espoused on the Orange Mane.

TROLL.

Espoused! I like it!

Lonestar let me ask you this... You watched every Broncos game this past year right? I hope at least. I know I did.
Can you really with a straight face say that EVERY single pass play was a simple 3 step drop and Manning just dumped it off? I remember quite a few times where Manning had time to sit in the pocket and throw it down field.
The NFL is a passing league right now. And for a passing league, you typically like to have LT's that can protect the QB's blindside. When you have one of the best in the league at that position, you don't just let him walk.
Go ahead and ask Arizona, Philly, Chicago how much fun it is to not have that.
Clady has had one bad year, when he came back from injury. Much like Jake Long in Miami just had this last year.
He is a top 3 LT. Pay the man.
I'm going to put my faith in the FO of the Broncos to be able to figure out how to pay him and move forward with the team this next year.

Beantown Bronco
01-24-2013, 08:55 AM
lonestar,

Would you be open to some kind of wager involving the Broncos ability to sign Clady, all their draft picks, a few of their own FAs who are actually worth re-signing and a handful of outside FAs going for more than the league minimum? Say if they do, you can never again post about the Broncos cap?

DBroncos4life
01-24-2013, 09:02 AM
So show me the money. They are owed.

At the time I did the numbers there were 35. And since then to the best of my knowledge they have signed 10 player to future contracts.


If they signed more folks than the 35 accounted for then those dollars have to come out of the cap money of 18.5.

Show me how much they signed for and how much we have left.

This is what sport track has.

Player Contract End Year Free Agent
Peyton Manning at
Quarterback
5 yr/$96,000,000
2016
2017
Elvis Dumervil at
Defensive End
6 yr/$61,500,000
2015
2016
Champ Bailey at
Cornerback
4 yr/$43,000,000
2014
2015
D.J. Williams at
Linebacker
6 yr/$32,000,000
2013
2014
Chris Kuper at
Guard
6 yr/$28,012,000
2015
2016
Von Miller at
Linebacker
4 yr/$21,000,380
2014
2015
Ryan Clady at
Tackle
5 yr/$17,500,000
2012
2013
Knowshon Moreno at
Running Back
5 yr/$16,700,000
2013
2015
Robert Ayers at
Defensive End
5 yr/$15,500,000
2013
2014
Matt Prater at
Kicker
4 yr/$13,000,000
2015
2016
Demaryius Thomas at
Wide Receiver
5 yr/$12,155,000
2014
2015
Joe Mays at
Linebacker
3 yr/$12,000,000
2014
2015
Willis McGahee at
Running Back
4 yr/$9,500,000
2014
2015
Joel Dreessen at
Tight End
3 yr/$8,500,000
2014
2015
Jacob Tamme at
Tight End
3 yr/$8,000,000
2014
2015
Derek Wolfe at
Defensive End
4 yr/$6,247,675
2015
2016
Kevin Vickerson at
Defensive Tackle
2 yr/$4,750,000
2012
2013
Rahim Moore at
Safety
4 yr/$4,448,000
2014
2015
Orlando Franklin at
Tackle
4 yr/$4,350,000
2014
2015
Zane Beadles at
Guard
4 yr/$4,171,000
2013
2014
Mike Adams at
Safety
2 yr/$4,000,000
2013
2014
Tracy Porter at
Cornerback
1 yr/$4,000,000
2012
2013
Wesley Woodyard at
Linebacker
2 yr/$3,500,000
2013
2014
Brock Osweiler at
Quarterback
4 yr/$3,100,000
2015
2016
Ronnie Hillman at
Running Back
4 yr/$3,000,000
2015
2016
Nate Irving at
Linebacker
4 yr/$2,735,000
2014
2015
J.D. Walton at
Center
4 yr/$2,588,500
2013
2014
Omar Bolden at
Cornerback
4 yr/$2,574,428
2015
2016
Philip Blake at
Center
4 yr/$2,554,000
2015
2016
Eric Decker at
Wide Receiver
4 yr/$2,522,150
2013
2014
Quinton Carter at
Safety
4 yr/$2,490,000
2014
2015
Julius Thomas at
Tight End
4 yr/$2,420,000
2014
2015
Malik Jackson at
Defensive End
4 yr/$2,313,600
2015
2016
Caleb Hanie at
Quarterback
2 yr/$2,250,000
2013
2014
David Bruton at
Safety
4 yr/$2,232,400
2012
2013
Danny Trevathan at
Linebacker
4 yr/$2,204,072
2015
2016
Virgil Green at
Tight End
4 yr/$2,160,000
2014
2015
Andre Caldwell at
Wide Receiver
2 yr/$1,800,000
2013
2014
Ty Warren at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$1,500,000
2012
2013
Steven Johnson at
Linebacker
3 yr/$1,452,000
2014
2015
Aaron Brewer at
Long Snapper, Linebacker
3 yr/$1,444,000
2014
2015
Jacob Hester at
Running Back
2 yr/$1,415,000
2013
2014
Manuel Ramirez at
Guard
2 yr/$1,415,000
2013
2014
Mario Fannin at
Running Back
3 yr/$1,405,000
2013
2014
Chris Harris at
Cornerback
3 yr/$1,398,000
2013
2014
Matt Willis at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$1,260,000
2012
2013
Chris Gronkowski at
Running Back
3 yr/$1,215,000
2012
2013
C.J. Davis at
Guard
2 yr/$1,020,000
2013
2014
Justin Bannan at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$1,000,000
2012
2013
Keith Brooking at
Linebacker
1 yr/$1,000,000
2012
2013
Brandon Stokley at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$925,000
2012
2013
Gerell Robinson at
Wide Receiver
2 yr/$900,000
2014
2015
Jim Leonhard at
Safety
1 yr/$890,000
2012
2013
Trindon Holliday at
Kick Returner
2 yr/$870,000
2013
2014
Sealver Siliga at
Defensive Tackle
2 yr/$870,000
2013
2014
Dan Koppen at
Center
1 yr/$825,000
2012
2013
Jason Hunter at
Defensive End
1 yr/$700,000
2012
2013
Tony Carter at
Cornerback
1 yr/$615,000
2012
2013
Lance Ball at
Running Back
1 yr/$540,000
2012
2013
Chris Clark at
Tackle
1 yr/$540,000
2012
2013
Britton Colquitt at
Punter
1 yr/$540,000
2012
2013
Duke Ihenacho at
Cornerback
1 yr/$480,000
2013
2014
Jeremiah Johnson at
Running Back
1 yr/$480,000
2013
2014
Mitch Unrein at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$415,000
2012
2013
Ben Garland at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Quentin Saulsberry at
Center
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Paul Cornick at
Tackle
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Justin Boren at
Guard
1 yr/$405,000
2013
2014
Mario Butler at
Cornerback
1 yr/TBD
2013
2014
Greg Orton at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/TBD
2013
2014
Dead Money / Buyouts
Andre' Goodman at
Cornerback
2 yr/$1,200,000
2013
Coryell Judie at
Cornerback
2 yr/$10,000
2013
Eric Page at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$1,085
2012
Ty Warren at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$1,250,000
2012
Jabar Gaffney at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$375,000
2012
Eric Olsen at
Guard
1 yr/$53,000
2012
Perrish Cox at
Cornerback
1 yr/$101,000
2012
Darcel McBath at
Safety
2 yr/$772,000
2012
Richard Quinn at
Tight End
2 yr/$465,000
2012
Lonie Paxton at
Long Snapper
2 yr/$365,200
2013
Austin Wuebbels at
Guard
1 yr/$1,334
2012
Elliot Coffey at
Linebacker
2 yr/$3,000
2013
Anthony Miller at
Tight End
2 yr/$5,000
2013
Mike Remmers at
Tackle
2 yr/$5,000
2013
Drayton Florence at
Cornerback
1 yr/$1,500,000
2012
Duke Ihenacho at
Cornerback
1 yr/$8,500
2012
Jerry Franklin at
Linebacker
1 yr/$10,000
2012
Ben Garland at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$666
2012
Wayne Tribue at
Guard
1 yr/$2,000
2012
Syd'Quan Thompson at
Cornerback
1 yr/$28,424
2012
Gerell Robinson at
Wide Receiver
1 yr/$3,500
2012
Jamie Blatnick at
Defensive Tackle
1 yr/$10,000
2012
Duke Ihenacho at
Cornerback
1 yr/$121,875
2012




Sorry but doing this on an iPhone this the best I can do for now
I'm only going to respond to you about this once. I know what spotrac says because I SHOWED you the site. Also I'm not going to do anymore work to prove you are wrong. You are. Get over it and click the sportac link I'm about to show you and you can figure out the money all you want. We have 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 and I will say it again 50 players signed with plenty of cap room. Now you are back to my iggy.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/yearly/

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 09:04 AM
I don't think Lonestar grasps that the cap is allocated towards the 53 man roster..

The 35 players under contract, refer to the players whom were on the starting roster for the 2012 season and their cap hit, because the assumption is they will be part of the player count against the salary cap.

http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/faq.aspx

Requiem
01-24-2013, 09:18 AM
Lonestar doesn't grasp a lot of things. You didn't hear Peyton Manning b****ing when he had Tarik Glenn protecting his ass for a decade, but somehow Ryan Clady (who is probably a better overall player than Glenn) is piss and not worth of this roster. Like I said, Lonestar's disdain for Clady comes from pre-2008 draft ignorance on them that he has never let go. It is hilarious to see a guy who claims to not see many games talk about the performance of players if he isn't even watching. That has been loneturd's MOS for years.

mwill07
01-24-2013, 09:36 AM
I don't think Lonestar grasps that the cap is allocated towards the 53 man roster..

The 35 players under contract, refer to the players whom were on the starting roster for the 2012 season and their cap hit, because the assumption is they will be part of the player count against the salary cap.

http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/faq.aspx

plus, there are at least 4 guys out of this 50 that, IMO, are unlikely to be on the 2013 roster at their given salaries:

DJ Williams: $6M
Joe Mays: $4M
Caleb Hanie: $1.25M
Andre Caldwell: $900k

in dead money, cutting these guys could cost:
DJ: $500k in accelerated signing bonus
Mays: $333k
Hanie: $0
Caldwell: $100k

so, cutting these 4 guys saves roughly $11.2M.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 09:43 AM
Lonestar doesn't grasp a lot of things. You didn't hear Peyton Manning b****ing when he had Tarik Glenn protecting his ass for a decade, but somehow Ryan Clady (who is probably a better overall player than Glenn) is piss and not worth of this roster. Like I said, Lonestar's disdain for Clady comes from pre-2008 draft ignorance on them that he has never let go. It is hilarious to see a guy who claims to not see many games talk about the performance of players if he isn't even watching. That has been loneturd's MOS for years.

Clady is a priority. He just talks about money but he dances around the question of who replaces him.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 09:47 AM
plus, there are at least 4 guys out of this 50 that, IMO, are unlikely to be on the 2013 roster at their given salaries:

DJ Williams: $6M
Joe Mays: $4M
Caleb Hanie: $1.25M
Andre Caldwell: $900k

in dead money, cutting these guys could cost:
DJ: $500k in accelerated signing bonus
Mays: $333k
Hanie: $0
Caldwell: $100k

so, cutting these 4 guys saves roughly $11.2M.

These are 4 that I agree should be cut! When I proposed that to him, that the savings of Mays and DJ cover Clady's franchise tag, worst case scenario. He goes off on tangents about who replaces them and blah blah blah. Yet we have our DJ replacement in Trevethan, and the Mays replacement is still TBD. It's not as dire as he makes it out to be.

DBroncos4life
01-24-2013, 09:54 AM
These are 4 that I agree should be cut! When I proposed that to him, that the savings of Mays and DJ cover Clady's franchise tag, worst case scenario. He goes off on tangents about who replaces them and blah blah blah. Yet we have our DJ replacement in Trevethan, and the Mays replacement is still TBD. It's not as dire as he makes it out to be.
We only need one LB replaced this off-season IMO and that it is Brooking. That is even if we cut DJ and Mays. Trevethan in season two should be improved enough to be a full time starter.

I did a quick break down of how much we had invested in the LB's and we had I believe damn near 7 million bucks in back up LBs.

mwill07
01-24-2013, 10:05 AM
These are 4 that I agree should be cut! When I proposed that to him, that the savings of Mays and DJ cover Clady's franchise tag, worst case scenario. He goes off on tangents about who replaces them and blah blah blah. Yet we have our DJ replacement in Trevethan, and the Mays replacement is still TBD. It's not as dire as he makes it out to be.

yeah, it would be much easier to replace two LB's who didn't make meaningful contributions in 2012 than the only guy to start @ LT for the past 5 years, and played well enough to be recognized as all-pro.

Requiem
01-24-2013, 10:16 AM
We only need one LB replaced this off-season IMO and that it is Brooking. That is even if we cut DJ and Mays. Trevethan in season two should be improved enough to be a full time starter.

I did a quick break down of how much we had invested in the LB's and we had I believe damn near 7 million bucks in back up LBs.

Where is Trevathan going to start? Von @ SLB. Woodyard @ WLB. Trevathan is listed as #3 WLB on our depth chart behind Williams. Basically, we have this moving forward:

WLB: Woodyard, Trevathan
SLB: Von, Irving
MLB: Steven Johnson

IR: Joe Mays (MLB)
FA: Keith Brooking (MLB)
Other: DJ Williams (Potential $ Cut Move)

Basically, I don't see Steven Johnson or Danny Trevathan (who I think will be find role players) assuming starting roles on this team, especially at ILB. I don't know if Irving will ever live up to the billing of being able to play on the inside, but maybe in his third year he will have that shot and get it.

Mays, Williams and Brooking won't all be back. The way I look at it, we have 5 viable options at LB to move forward with in the future. DJ would make 6, but I don't think he sticks around at that salary. As much of a Bison fan as I am, Joe isn't worth 4 million bucks on the inside and Brooking was fine for a one-year stop gap.

MIKE has got to be upgraded.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 10:20 AM
These are 4 that I agree should be cut! When I proposed that to him, that the savings of Mays and DJ cover Clady's franchise tag, worst case scenario. He goes off on tangents about who replaces them and blah blah blah. Yet we have our DJ replacement in Trevethan, and the Mays replacement is still TBD. It's not as dire as he makes it out to be.

Let me do this slowly it is not who replaces DJ as LB it is whoever replaces these guys on the roster, have to be paid also.. if they are vets it is about 700K minimum per body if it is a rookie type nontenured guy probably about 400K..

Just cutting someone does not mean that you do not have to replace the guy, all is does is remove some of the value of his contract not ALL IS free money..

plus when you do cut someone their FULL prorated bonus money comes due excepting roster bonus, which is obvious since one has to be on the roster at a certain time to get it..

Now I trust that John E and company have better numbers than the rest of us have access to, and so far John excepting Mayes has made some damned fine decisions, so IF they decide that he is worth the money so be it..

But the numbers I see and the low ball offer they made last year gives me the indication they do not feel he is worth elite money..

Which he no doubt will get from someone that needs him worse than we do.. I understand that many have their panties in a wad about OLT having to be the best, but I just do not see clady the same as y'all seem to think he is..

Requiem
01-24-2013, 10:22 AM
Except you don't watch many Broncos games, so you can't make that assessment. The people who do and make a living off commenting on the NFL made him an All-Pro. Shut up.

DBroncos4life
01-24-2013, 10:24 AM
Where is Trevathan going to start? Von @ SLB. Woodyard @ WLB. Trevathan is listed as #3 WLB on our depth chart behind Williams. Basically, we have this moving forward:

WLB: Woodyard, Trevathan
SLB: Von, Irving
MLB: Steven Johnson

IR: Joe Mays (MLB)
FA: Keith Brooking (MLB)
Other: DJ Williams (Potential $ Cut Move)

Basically, I don't see Steven Johnson or Danny Trevathan (who I think will be find role players) assuming starting roles on this team, especially at ILB. I don't know if Irving will ever live up to the billing of being able to play on the inside, but maybe in his third year he will have that shot and get it.

Mays, Williams and Brooking won't all be back. The way I look at it, we have 5 viable options at LB to move forward with in the future. DJ would make 6, but I don't think he sticks around at that salary. As much of a Bison fan as I am, Joe isn't worth 4 million bucks on the inside and Brooking was fine for a one-year stop gap.

MIKE has got to be upgraded.
I should have reworded that. His rotation time should increase.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 10:33 AM
The reason I deleted the thread I started on Clady is because lonestar acted like a petulant !@#$%^&* continuously bickering with people just for the Hell of it. Over a dozen posters on this board have shown him the # of players we have under contract or came up with scenarios where the Broncos can fiddle with their roster and cap (as they have in years past) in order to retain Clady, re-sign UFA, RFA, ERFA and our draft class -- yet he continues to troll and spew nonsense whenever he feels it is appropriate.

The bottom line is this: Lonestar never liked the Clady selecton (despite not watching college football) because he came from Boise State and he questioned the level of competition he faced. [He also called Elvis Dumervil a short midget, who wouldn't ever last in the pros.] Unfortunately, in five years with the Broncos -- Clady has started every game, made 3 Pro-Bowls and been named All-Pro twice. Obviously his worse season was in a shortended off-season due to an injury, but he came back and proved his worth this year.

To even try and suggest that the Broncos would rid themselves of one of their best players on the team just to replace him with a rookie LT is absolutely ludicrous. Furthermore, saying that LT isn't as important to our team because we have Manning is one of the most stupid football takes ever espoused on the Orange Mane.

TROLL.

I'll take this time to reply just once..

POOR DREAM had his feelings hurt in his thread because I DARED to reply in it so I seemed like he wanted to shrink his balls and run for cover.. by deleting the thread..

speak of trolls your one of the kings of it..

most of your posts are tee hee hee giggling like a little girl one line responses..

It seem that just because I do not hold Clady to the same level you do, that you feel my posts are trolling..

All I asked in your thread was show me the money.. at least a few good poster s in this thread have attempted to do so and some make damned good sense, unlike your whining in here..

If you do not like what I have to say, refute it and stop pissing and moaning about poor dream and how I pick on him..

I've had you on IGGY most of my posting days because you are a troll following ME from forum to forum.. Unlike your comments to the contrary and when I was a mod and had to ban you repeatedly form your behavior you seem to never GOT IT.. it is you and not the rest of the forum that was at fault..

Yes I got banned after I was fired as a MOD but it was because I choose to defy the direction the forum was going nothing more nothing less..

So now back to iggy for you as I choose not to see your silly whiny posts..

mwill07
01-24-2013, 10:35 AM
Let me do this slowly it is not who replaces DJ as LB it is whoever replaces these guys on the roster, have to be paid also.. if they are vets it is about 700K minimum per body if it is a rookie type nontenured guy probably about 400K..

Just cutting someone does not mean that you do not have to replace the guy, all is does is remove some of the value of his contract not ALL IS free money..

plus when you do cut someone their FULL prorated bonus money comes due excepting roster bonus, which is obvious since one has to be on the roster at a certain time to get it..

Now I trust that John E and company have better numbers than the rest of us have access to, and so far John excepting Mayes has made some damned fine decisions, so IF they decide that he is worth the money so be it..

But the numbers I see and the low ball offer they made last year gives me the indication they do not feel he is worth elite money..

Which he no doubt will get from someone that needs him worse than we do.. I understand that many have their panties in a wad about OLT having to be the best, but I just do not see clady the same as y'all seem to think he is..

did you miss the part above where I mentioned accelerated bonus counting against the cap? cutting DJ would cost $500k in dead money. That's it.

Requiem
01-24-2013, 10:38 AM
You were banned because you were an insufferable ****head that nobody likes. It has been the same everywhere you go. Nobody gives a **** about what you post here. So why bother?

Flex Gunmetal
01-24-2013, 10:41 AM
I'll take this time to reply just once..

POOR DREAM had his feelings hurt in his thread because I DARED to reply in it so I seemed like he wanted to shrink his balls and run for cover.. by deleting the thread..

speak of trolls your one of the kings of it..

most of your posts are tee hee hee giggling like a little girl one line responses..

It seem that just because I do not hold Clady to the same level you do, that you feel my posts are trolling..

All I asked in your thread was show me the money.. at least a few good poster s in this thread have attempted to do so and some make damned good sense, unlike your whining in here..

If you do not like what I have to say, refute it and stop pissing and moaning about poor dream and how I pick on him..

I've had you on IGGY most of my posting days because you are a troll following ME from forum to forum.. Unlike your comments to the contrary and when I was a mod and had to ban you repeatedly form your behavior you seem to never GOT IT.. it is you and not the rest of the forum that was at fault..

Yes I got banned after I was fired as a MOD but it was because I choose to defy the direction the forum was going nothing more nothing less..

So now back to iggy for you as I choose not to see your silly whiny posts..


Go away you clueless waste of air. No one likes you, nor do you offer anything of value to this site other than headaches and spite.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 10:44 AM
We only need one LB replaced this off-season IMO and that it is Brooking. That is even if we cut DJ and Mays. Trevethan in season two should be improved enough to be a full time starter.

I did a quick break down of how much we had invested in the LB's and we had I believe damn near 7 million bucks in back up LBs.

Well majority of that is DJ.. But technically it would be about 12 Million.. Mays and DJ.. Irvin, Trevethan, Johnson.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 10:52 AM
let me add I have said this many times


dream was correct about me not liking clady mostly because he came from a small school and played NO ONE while in school..

Originally I saw it as just one more mikeys Wild Assed Guesses on draft choices and we all know how many of them we have had..

nothing wrong with that..

I have also said that I was surprised that he turned into a very good OLT and had great couple of season UNTIL his dinged his Knee and since then his performance has been less that Elite ..

let me add that dream was having orgasms about this kid so that also fuels the fire in his hate for me..



I just do not see him as being as great as some of you think he is..

he is good but flawed in his run game and as many others on here have noticed he struggles a bit with speed rushers..

Again IF John and John think he is wrth teh money and can find it fine with me..

I just do not think it will happen..

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 10:52 AM
Let me do this slowly it is not who replaces DJ as LB it is whoever replaces these guys on the roster, have to be paid also.. if they are vets it is about 700K minimum per body if it is a rookie type nontenured guy probably about 400K..

Just cutting someone does not mean that you do not have to replace the guy, all is does is remove some of the value of his contract not ALL IS free money..

plus when you do cut someone their FULL prorated bonus money comes due excepting roster bonus, which is obvious since one has to be on the roster at a certain time to get it..

Now I trust that John E and company have better numbers than the rest of us have access to, and so far John excepting Mayes has made some damned fine decisions, so IF they decide that he is worth the money so be it..

But the numbers I see and the low ball offer they made last year gives me the indication they do not feel he is worth elite money..

Which he no doubt will get from someone that needs him worse than we do.. I understand that many have their panties in a wad about OLT having to be the best, but I just do not see clady the same as y'all seem to think he is..

Let me say this slowly, you are missing itttt. You cut DJ and your saving roughly $6 million, you cut Mays roughly $4 million. That can all be applied to Clady's Tag. So we are with one player signed and no cap effects. DJ was a back up, you can draft a back up in the draft, although we have one in Trevethan.. So we can carry ONE LESS LB on the depth chart. Do you understand?

Beantown Bronco
01-24-2013, 10:53 AM
lonestar,

I'm still waiting.

lonestar,

Would you be open to some kind of wager involving the Broncos ability to sign Clady, all their draft picks, a few of their own FAs who are actually worth re-signing and a handful of outside FAs going for more than the league minimum? Say if they do, you can never again post about the Broncos cap?

lonestar
01-24-2013, 10:56 AM
Go away you clueless waste of air. No one likes you, nor do you offer anything of value to this site other than headaches and spite.

well now I know that you must be dreams budd..

frankly I do not care what you think.. I get loads of reps from folks so I suspect you are just spouting sour grapes..

In case you did not realize it forums like this are for peoples view points and if every one was like you then it would be a piss poor place to come to..

have a great day..

because now that I have heard from you I will, you made my day..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 10:57 AM
lonestar,

I'm still waiting.

I have made it clear hat I do not wager anywhere but in the stock market..

not interested.. and BTW I did not see your post before now..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
Let me say this slowly, you are missing itttt. You cut DJ and your saving roughly $6 million, you cut Mays roughly $4 million. That can all be applied to Clady's Tag. So we are with one player signed and no cap effects. DJ was a back up, you can draft a back up in the draft, although we have one in Trevethan.. So we can carry ONE LESS LB on the depth chart. Do you understand?

yet you have two less players on the roster..

you still have to pay them when you sign them and at minimum they get about 400k..

so Even if your roughlys are near correct you do not have enough to cover cladys 12 million a year including prorated bonuses.. just doing rough math you are close to 3 million short..

I take it you learned the new math?

Flex Gunmetal
01-24-2013, 11:03 AM
well now I know that you must be dreams budd..

frankly I do not care what you think.. I get loads of reps from folks so I suspect you are just spouting sour grapes..

In case you did not realize it forums like this are for peoples view points and if every one was like you then it would be a piss poor place to come to..

have a great day..

because now that I have heard from you I will, you made my day..

"I dont care if people hate me, I'll continue to be a pain in the ass at every turn!"

You're a broken record. Post your CP.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
"I dont care if people hate me, I'll continue to be a pain in the ass at every turn!"

You're a broken record. Post your CP.

Aw now your hurting my feelings.

Are you that insecure in life gunmetal.

You internet big shots amaze me. Tough names for little boys.

Beantown Bronco
01-24-2013, 11:07 AM
I have made it clear hat I do not wager anywhere but in the stock market..

not interested.. and BTW I did not see your post before now..

Then don't look at it as a wager. Look at is as an acknowledgment that you either know what you're talking about or don't. If you're completely wrong about everything you've been posting basically since you started posting here, you go away. If you're right and the Broncos don't sign Clady and don't pay anyone else that $10-12 mil, you can keep on posting to your heart's content.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 11:07 AM
yet you have two less players on the roster..

you still have to pay them when you sign them and at minimum they get about 400k..

so Even if your roughlys are near correct you do not have enough to cover cladys 12 million a year including prorated bonuses.. just doing rough math you are close to 3 million short..

I take it you learned the new math?

No prick, I thought we talked about your insults before, yet you continue.

We can TAG Clady at a $9.6 cap hit. We can draft a LB and pay him $400K.. That's $10 million... With 2 new players under contract.

Minus DJ $6 and Mays $4 which EQUALS $10. It means we would have the same cap with the same amount of players signed.. DO YOU FOLLOW?

I guess you have learned a new language.

Flex Gunmetal
01-24-2013, 11:08 AM
Aw now your hurting my feelings.

Are you that insecure in life gunmetal.

You internet big shots amaze me. Tough names for little boys.

I'm insecure because I find a pest to in fact, be a pest?

Post your CP clownshoes.

DBroncos4life
01-24-2013, 11:10 AM
Well majority of that is DJ.. But technically it would be about 12 Million.. Mays and DJ.. Irvin, Trevethan, Johnson.

LB was the second highest paid group last year at almost 14 million. Miller is included. DJs replacement is already on the roster so we luck out there.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 11:11 AM
did you miss the part above where I mentioned accelerated bonus counting against the cap? cutting DJ would cost $500k in dead money. That's it.

Sorry I did not see this til now. As I understand it he is due 7.7 this coming year with 250 bonus and about 1.4 and change in other bonus money none of which is roster.

That means 1.7 is prorated bonus money that should come off the 6 million. In his base salary. Leaving 4.3.

Now showed me where you come up with only 500k and I can dig it.

I got my info from sportrac.

mwill07
01-24-2013, 11:30 AM
Sorry I did not see this til now. As I understand it he is due 7.7 this coming year with 250 bonus and about 1.4 and change in other bonus money none of which is roster.

That means 1.7 is prorated bonus money that should come off the 6 million. In his base salary. Leaving 4.3.

Now showed me where you come up with only 500k and I can dig it.

I got my info from sportrac.

apologies - his cap hit for 2013 would be $250k if we cut him now.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/d.j.-williams/

If DJ does not make the final 2013 roster, his salary and bonuses would not be paid, and therefore would not hit the cap. All we would be on the hook for is the balance of his pro-rated signing bonus, which is $250k.

24champ
01-24-2013, 01:00 PM
frankly I do not care what you think.. I get loads of reps from folks so I suspect you are just spouting sour grapes..



Judging from this thread, nobody else agrees with you.

Lets see this "loads of rep from folks" bs. Post your CP.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 01:22 PM
What's "CP"..?

24champ
01-24-2013, 01:27 PM
What's "CP"..?

Control Panel, where you can see the rep you receive from others.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 01:43 PM
Control Panel, where you can see the rep you receive from others.

Thanks. Am I able to see that from an iPhone?

24champ
01-24-2013, 01:50 PM
Thanks. Am I able to see that from an iPhone?

Yes you can, just go to user CP on your screen.

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 01:58 PM
Yes you can, just go to user CP on your screen.

Thanks! How do I select good or bad for others posts?

Requiem
01-24-2013, 02:13 PM
Judging from this thread, nobody else agrees with you.

Lets see this "loads of rep from folks" bs. Post your CP.

teh facts iz you draft kiddies and your madden xbox catn undrsto0d pat has a budget to perate with and likely the way i see it since i managed business that elway not gonna get the full dole to do what he wants. iirc they had set limits justl ike with mikey and josh so say what you iwll just can't post that.

Requiem
01-24-2013, 02:14 PM
Thanks! How do I select good or bad for others posts?

If you have a green mark with a comment in your CP -- it is positive rep.

If you have a red mark with a comment in your CP -- it is negative rep.

If you have a silver mark with a comment in your CP -- it means it is neutral, coming from a user who has more negative reputation than positive. Essentially, it means that theyre contribution points are worth nothing.

If you guys all negative rep lonestar he will be there in just a few days.

Oh wait, we can't repbomb anymore. Hilarious!

lonestar
01-24-2013, 02:14 PM
No prick, I thought we talked about your insults before, yet you continue.

We can TAG Clady at a $9.6 cap hit. We can draft a LB and pay him $400K.. That's $10 million... With 2 new players under contract.

Minus DJ $6 and Mays $4 which EQUALS $10. It means we would have the same cap with the same amount of players signed.. DO YOU FOLLOW?

I guess you have learned a new language.

Hoe do you remotely think he is going to take 9.6. If anything it will be closer to 12 a year in cap hit.

Hell he turned down right at 10 a year last summer. IIRC five years for 45+ million. What makes you think he would not want a hell of a lot more?

As far as dj and Mayes yes you lose ten mil in salary. But you

ONE you have to replace both players as bodies not necessarily as LB but I'd guess losing at least brooking, dj and mayes they would add another lb or two to the roster.

So replacing a player is going cost you between 400 to 700 K EACH if they are role players. SO LET'S SAY A MILLION for the two. ( now that could be less if we just get bodies via UDFA. But not much less.

TWO The prorated bonus money has to be deducted from the upcoming cap. If I calculated this correctly that is close to 2 mil between the two.

So now instead of having all that 10 million to spend on Clady you really have something closer to 7.

Now I'm not trying to be him stile here. I just expect that folks be realistic.

If I'm wrong show me where I am. Back it up with facts not pipe dreams.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 02:22 PM
apologies - his cap hit for 2013 would be $250k if we cut him now.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/d.j.-williams/

If DJ does not make the final 2013 roster, his salary and bonuses would not be paid, and therefore would not hit the cap. All we would be on the hook for is the balance of his pro-rated signing bonus, which is $250k.

What is the other 1.4+ mil for listed on their site any ideas.

I read ON a pretty respect site at one time that we were on the hook for that 1.7 cap wise and when I saw it on their site I added to two together.


If yoi are correct with the 250k then yes we do indeed save 5.75 mil. By cutting him.

Nice to know that at least a few posters have a clue and do not get their panties In a wad when either called on something or asked to explain wher they got their numbers or info from.

:thumbs: thanks for the info

mwill07
01-24-2013, 02:34 PM
What is the other 1.4+ mil for listed on their site any ideas.

I read ON a pretty respect site at one time that we were on the hook for that 1.7 cap wise and when I saw it on their site I added to two together.


If yoi are correct with the 250k then yes we do indeed save 5.75 mil. By cutting him.

Nice to know that at least a few posters have a clue and do not get their panties In a wad when either called on something or asked to explain wher they got their numbers or info from.

:thumbs: thanks for the info

there are bonuses besides signing bonuses - there are roster bonuses which can be earned simply by making the team, and there are performance bonuses...i.e. make the pro-bowl, earn $x. Record X number of sacks, earn X. These are typically broken down into "likely to be earned" and "unlikely to be earned". IIRD, only "likely to be earned" and roster bonuses count towards the cap. This may have changed since the last CBA though.

If you saw $1.7, they are lumping his $1.4M misc. bonus with the remainder of his signing bonus: $250k. without seeing the contract, it's hard to tell if that's appropriate.

Beyond that, I remember hearing that DJ's contract was re-worked last season, but details weren't given. So, this discussion could be moot.

Bottom line - let Elway's team worry about Bowlens budget. Only they know what the real numbers are and the Broncos cap situation. sportrac and all of the media guys - they are really guessing, just like everyone else.

mwill07
01-24-2013, 02:39 PM
Hoe do you remotely think he is going to take 9.6. If anything it will be closer to 12 a year in cap hit.

Hell he turned down right at 10 a year last summer. IIRC five years for 45+ million. What makes you think he would not want a hell of a lot more?

As far as dj and Mayes yes you lose ten mil in salary. But you

ONE you have to replace both players as bodies not necessarily as LB but I'd guess losing at least brooking, dj and mayes they would add another lb or two to the roster.

So replacing a player is going cost you between 400 to 700 K EACH if they are role players. SO LET'S SAY A MILLION for the two. ( now that could be less if we just get bodies via UDFA. But not much less.

TWO The prorated bonus money has to be deducted from the upcoming cap. If I calculated this correctly that is close to 2 mil between the two.

So now instead of having all that 10 million to spend on Clady you really have something closer to 7.

Now I'm not trying to be him stile here. I just expect that folks be realistic.

If I'm wrong show me where I am. Back it up with facts not pipe dreams.

just a guess here, but $9.6M is probably the cost of a franchise tag.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 02:45 PM
I'm insecure because I find a pest to in fact, be a pest?

Post your CP clownshoes.

I take it you do not like my posts..

if you have not figured it out yet they have this wonderful thing on here called the IGNORE function or commonly referred to as IGGY .. since I have yet to read a post of your worth a crap, welcome to mine..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 02:49 PM
just a guess here, but $9.6M is probably the cost of a franchise tag.
:thumbs:

he has bee so adamant about resigning him, long term I missed the "TAG" part..


OK that makes sense, but what does that really accomplish?

we get to keep him one more year and then he is gone, We still have to replace him after that.. so why not start right now?

we either find the money somewhere and pay him long term and not fill other spots of need or cut him loose with thanks for the past few years..

Flex Gunmetal
01-24-2013, 02:55 PM
I take it you do not like my posts..

if you have not figured it out yet they have this wonderful thing on here called the IGNORE function or commonly referred to as IGGY .. since I have yet to read a post of your worth a crap, welcome to mine..

Since you are convinced you are right and everyone else is wrong, no matter how many people have to call you out for the clown you are, post your CP.

I'd wager I have more reps solely from posts in which I point out how much of a moron you are, than you have in total.

I'll wait, surely you'll deliver.

mwill07
01-24-2013, 03:01 PM
:thumbs:

he has bee so adamant about resigning him, long term I missed the "TAG" part..


OK that makes sense, but what does that really accomplish?

we get to keep him one more year and then he is gone, We still have to replace him after that.. so why not start right now?

we either find the money somewhere and pay him long term and not fill other spots of need or cut him loose with thanks for the past few years..

if you can work out a deal that is good with both parties, great. Sign it up and be done with it. If you can't make it happen, tag him and keep working on the deal before he hits the open market. No reason to just let him walk right now.

There are a couple other options:

non-exclusive franchise tag. We offer him the average of the top 5 players over the past 5 years (which would be lower than the exclusive tag), but would give Clady the option to negotiate with other teams. If someone else wants him that bad and we choose not to match, we would get two first round picks as compensation.

tag and trade. Hit him up with the franchise tag and then trade to whomever wants to deal with the negotiations.

IMO, these are things that rebuilding teams should consider. We are not in that camp. When you are building for a championship run, draft picks are less important than on-bard talent.

Dendave
01-24-2013, 03:10 PM
OK that makes sense, but what does that really accomplish?

we get to keep him one more year and then he is gone, We still have to replace him after that.. so why not start right now?

we either find the money somewhere and pay him long term and not fill other spots of need or cut him loose with thanks for the past few years..

A player can be franchised a maximum of three times in a row

lonestar
01-24-2013, 03:16 PM
there are bonuses besides signing bonuses - there are roster bonuses which can be earned simply by making the team, and there are performance bonuses...i.e. make the pro-bowl, earn $x. Record X number of sacks, earn X. These are typically broken down into "likely to be earned" and "unlikely to be earned". IIRD, only "likely to be earned" and roster bonuses count towards the cap. This may have changed since the last CBA though.

If you saw $1.7, they are lumping his $1.4M misc. bonus with the remainder of his signing bonus: $250k. without seeing the contract, it's hard to tell if that's appropriate.

Beyond that, I remember hearing that DJ's contract was re-worked last season, but details weren't given. So, this discussion could be moot.

Bottom line - let Elway's team worry about Bowlens budget. Only they know what the real numbers are and the Broncos cap situation. sportrac and all of the media guys - they are really guessing, just like everyone else.

his contract rework was for 12 only that much I remember seeing that it supposedly did not touch any of his 2013 portion of the contract..

as far as letting John do the math.. I have always said if he can do it more power to him..

I love what he has done so far and fault him ONLY for signing Mayes out of all his moves that is pretty good bating average so far..

I post these things to slow down all the kiddies on here that have orgasms over every player that might or actually does hit Free Agency..

95% of them have never done a budget and spend every dime they have every pay day.. and do not have a clue on what it takes to run a business..

I'm not trying to be mean, merely pointing out that decisions have to be made and 98% of those decision are based on money not skill level..

while I'm sure that John would love to have a roster full of pro bowlers that hard facts are NO TEAM can afford to do so..

Most one here believe that because they have won on madden or as a FF owner that you have to have noting but all stars to win..

yet the good teams have some good players working as a TEAM to win lots of games..

the Pro Bowl players are in most cases voted on because of name recognition and not because they are studs..

way to many of the posters here get their panties in a wad if you tell them the truth that their ideas are unrealistic..

as you can clearly see in this thread..

24champ
01-24-2013, 03:27 PM
Post your cp, show us all that many people gave you good rep and agreed with you.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 03:31 PM
if you can work out a deal that is good with both parties, great. Sign it up and be done with it. If you can't make it happen, tag him and keep working on the deal before he hits the open market. No reason to just let him walk right now.

There are a couple other options:

non-exclusive franchise tag. We offer him the average of the top 5 players over the past 5 years (which would be lower than the exclusive tag), but would give Clady the option to negotiate with other teams. If someone else wants him that bad and we choose not to match, we would get two first round picks as compensation.

tag and trade. Hit him up with the franchise tag and then trade to whomever wants to deal with the negotiations.

IMO, these are things that rebuilding teams should consider. We are not in that camp. When you are building for a championship run, draft picks are less important than on-bard talent.

I had forgot about the non exclusive tag, that saves money or a roster spot and loads of cap money if he gets a better deal..

frankly I do not see him as the elite OLT that a few seem to think he is..

It will be interesting to see how the FO thinks on this..

I could be wrong as Hell on this and he just may be the second coming of Zimmerman.

But then if they do give him the keys to Pats House what do they use to sign the other players with..

for every guy they cut they have to replace them with a body and they are not free like so many here think..


unlike you I believe IF THEY ARE USED properly draft choices are more important than some players are..

for the most part if used proroperly they can indeed replace players fast.

one spot in particular is LB they can start immediately, may get beat from time to time, but if you have the right guy they should be a starter..

if the choice is correct the same should work for safety also.. has not worked for us lately but otehr teams seem to get it right..

I also believe that OL guys can step in and start day one.. again some growing pains as we saw with Walton, Beadles, Franklin and less so with Clady but we have proven the myth wrong about that..

Again unlike you I believe we are still rebuilding from the Mikey and Josh regimes.. John had brought in loads of one year contract guys, to fill the void while our kiddies earned their spurs..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 03:33 PM
A player can be franchised a maximum of three times in a row

I could be wrong but seem to think it is a one time tag now the players hated it so much they held out for a one time tag..

someone else may want to check that out but the was one of the real points of contention.. I would think the players would not have caved on that..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 03:46 PM
52. Greg Orton at Wide Receiver 1 yr/TBD 2013 2014
51. Mario Butler at Cornerback 1 yr/TBD 2013 2014
1. Justin Boren 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
2. Paul Cornick 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
3. Ben Garland 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
4. Gerell Robinson 2 yr/$900,000 2014 2015
5. Quentin Saulsberry 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
6. Aaron Brewer 3 yr/$1,444,000 2014 2015
7. Omar Bolden 4 yr/$2,574,428 2015 2016
8. Brock Osweiler 4 yr/$3,100,000 2015 2016
9. Ronnie Hillman 4 yr/$3,000,000 2015 2016
10. Trindon Holliday 2 yr/$870,000 2013 2014
11. Philip Blake 4 yr/$2,554,000 2015 2016
12. Sealver Siliga 2 yr/$870,000 2013 2014
13. Duke Ihenacho 1 yr/$480,000 2013 2014
14. Danny Trevathan 4 yr/$2,204,072 2015 2016
15. Malik Jackson 4 yr/$2,313,600 2015 2016
16. Steven Johnson 3 yr/$1,452,000 2014 2015
17. Jeremiah Johnson 1 yr/$480,000 2013 2014
18. Mario Fannin 3 yr/$1,405,000 2013 2014
19. Derek Wolfe 4 yr/$6,247,675 2015 2016
20. Julius Thomas 4 yr/$2,420,000 2014 2015
21. Virgil Green 4 yr/$2,160,000 2014 2015
22. Quinton Carter 4 yr/$2,490,000 2014 2015
23. Chris Harris 3 yr/$1,398,000 2013 2014
24. Nate Irving 4 yr/$2,735,000 2014 2015
25. Rahim Moore 4 yr/$4,448,000 2014 2015
26. C.J Davis 2 yr/$1,020,000 2013 2014
27. Eric Davis think you meant decker..
Eric Decker 4 yr/$2,522,150 2013 2014
28. Zane Beadles 4 yr/$4,171,000 2013 2014
29. JD Walton 4 yr/$2,588,500 2013 2014
30. Jacob Hester 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
31. Manuel Ramirez 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
32. Orlando Franklin 4 yr/$4,350,000 2014 2015
33. Demaryius Thomas 5 yr/$12,155,000 2014 2015
34. Andre Caldwell 2 yr/$1,800,000 2013 2014
35. Robert Ayers 5 yr/$15,500,000 2013 2014
36. Caleb Hanie 2 yr/$2,250,000 2013 2014
37. Knowshon Moreno 5 yr/$16,700,000 2013 2015
38. Wesley Woodyard 2 yr/$3,500,000 2013 2014
39. Mike Adams 2 yr/$4,000,000 2013 2014
40 Von Miller 4 yr/$21,000,380 2014 2015
41. Willis McGahee 4 yr/$9,500,000 2014 2015
42. Jacob Tamme 3 yr/$8,000,000 2014 2015
43. Matt Prater 4 yr/$13,000,000 2015 2016
44. Joel Dreessen 3 yr/$8,500,000 2014 2015
45. Joe Mays 3 yr/$12,000,000 2014 2015
46. Chris Kuper 6 yr/$28,012,000 2015 2016
47. DJ Williams 6 yr/$32,000,000 2013 2014
48. Champ Bailey 4 yr/$43,000,000 2014 2015
49 Elvis Dumervil 6 yr/$61,500,000 2015 2016
50. Peyton Manning 5 yr/$96,000,000 2016 2017


If I read one more quote with Lonestar saying we only have 35 or 37 players under contract I'm going to flip out. All those players have a contract for NEXT SEASON

lets see how close you really are now..



Active Contracts
2012 Cap Hits
salaries by year
Depth Chart
2013 Free Agents

Player Contract End Year Free Agent
Peyton Manning at Quarterback 5 yr/$96,000,000 2016 2017
Elvis Dumervil at Defensive End 6 yr/$61,500,000 2015 2016
Champ Bailey at Cornerback 4 yr/$43,000,000 2014 2015
D.J. Williams at Linebacker 6 yr/$32,000,000 2013 2014
Chris Kuper at Guard 6 yr/$28,012,000 2015 2016
Von Miller at Linebacker 4 yr/$21,000,380 2014 2015
Ryan Clady at Tackle 5 yr/$17,500,000 2012 2013
Knowshon Moreno at Running Back 5 yr/$16,700,000 2013 2015
Robert Ayers at Defensive End 5 yr/$15,500,000 2013 2014
Matt Prater at Kicker 4 yr/$13,000,000 2015 2016
Demaryius Thomas at Wide Receiver 5 yr/$12,155,000 2014 2015
Joe Mays at Linebacker 3 yr/$12,000,000 2014 2015
Willis McGahee at Running Back 4 yr/$9,500,000 2014 2015
Joel Dreessen at Tight End 3 yr/$8,500,000 2014 2015
Jacob Tamme at Tight End 3 yr/$8,000,000 2014 2015
Derek Wolfe at Defensive End 4 yr/$6,247,675 2015 2016
Kevin Vickerson at Defensive Tackle 2 yr/$4,750,000 2012 2013
Rahim Moore at Safety 4 yr/$4,448,000 2014 2015
Orlando Franklin at Tackle 4 yr/$4,350,000 2014 2015
Zane Beadles at Guard 4 yr/$4,171,000 2013 2014
Mike Adams at Safety 2 yr/$4,000,000 2013 2014
Tracy Porter at Cornerback 1 yr/$4,000,000 2012 2013
Wesley Woodyard at Linebacker 2 yr/$3,500,000 2013 2014
Brock Osweiler at Quarterback 4 yr/$3,100,000 2015 2016
Ronnie Hillman at Running Back 4 yr/$3,000,000 2015 2016
Nate Irving at Linebacker 4 yr/$2,735,000 2014 2015
J.D. Walton at Center 4 yr/$2,588,500 2013 2014
Omar Bolden at Cornerback 4 yr/$2,574,428 2015 2016
Philip Blake at Center 4 yr/$2,554,000 2015 2016
Eric Decker at Wide Receiver 4 yr/$2,522,150 2013 2014
Quinton Carter at Safety 4 yr/$2,490,000 2014 2015
Julius Thomas at Tight End 4 yr/$2,420,000 2014 2015
Malik Jackson at Defensive End 4 yr/$2,313,600 2015 2016
Caleb Hanie at Quarterback 2 yr/$2,250,000 2013 2014
David Bruton at Safety 4 yr/$2,232,400 2012 2013
Danny Trevathan at Linebacker 4 yr/$2,204,072 2015 2016
Virgil Green at Tight End 4 yr/$2,160,000 2014 2015
Andre Caldwell at Wide Receiver 2 yr/$1,800,000 2013 2014
Ty Warren at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$1,500,000 2012 2013
Steven Johnson at Linebacker 3 yr/$1,452,000 2014 2015
Aaron Brewer at Long Snapper, Linebacker 3 yr/$1,444,000 2014 2015
Jacob Hester at Running Back 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
Manuel Ramirez at Guard 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
Mario Fannin at Running Back 3 yr/$1,405,000 2013 2014
Chris Harris at Cornerback 3 yr/$1,398,000 2013 2014
Matt Willis at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$1,260,000 2012 2013]
Chris Gronkowski at Running Back 3 yr/$1,215,000 2012 2013
C.J. Davis at Guard 2 yr/$1,020,000 2013 2014
Justin Bannan at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$1,000,000 2012 2013
Keith Brooking at Linebacker 1 yr/$1,000,000 2012 2013
Brandon Stokley at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$925,000 2012 2013[/COLOR
Gerell Robinson at Wide Receiver 2 yr/$900,000 2014 2015
[COLOR="Red"]Jim Leonhard at Safety 1 yr/$890,000 2012 2013
Trindon Holliday at Kick Returner 2 yr/$870,000 2013 2014
Sealver Siliga at Defensive Tackle 2 yr/$870,000 2013 2014
Dan Koppen at Center 1 yr/$825,000 2012 2013
Jason Hunter at Defensive End 1 yr/$700,000 2012 2013
Tony Carter at Cornerback 1 yr/$615,000 2012 2013
Lance Ball at Running Back 1 yr/$540,000 2012 2013
Chris Clark at Tackle 1 yr/$540,000 2012 2013
Britton Colquitt at Punter 1 yr/$540,000 2012 2013
Duke Ihenacho at Cornerback 1 yr/$480,000 2013 2014
Jeremiah Johnson at Running Back 1 yr/$480,000 2013 2014
Mitch Unrein at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$415,000 2012 2013
Ben Garland at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
Quentin Saulsberry at Center 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
Paul Cornick at Tackle 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
Justin Boren at Guard 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
Mario Butler at Cornerback 1 yr/TBD 2013 2014
Greg Orton at Wide Receiver 1 yr/TBD 2013 2014
Dead Money / Buyouts
Andre' Goodman at Cornerback 2 yr/$1,200,000 2013
Coryell Judie at Cornerback 2 yr/$10,000 2013
Eric Page at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$1,085 2012
Ty Warren at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$1,250,000 2012
Jabar Gaffney at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$375,000 2012
Eric Olsen at Guard 1 yr/$53,000 2012
Perrish Cox at Cornerback 1 yr/$101,000 2012
Darcel McBath at Safety 2 yr/$772,000 2012
Richard Quinn at Tight End 2 yr/$465,000 2012
Lonie Paxton at Long Snapper 2 yr/$365,200 2013
Austin Wuebbels at Guard 1 yr/$1,334 2012
Elliot Coffey at Linebacker 2 yr/$3,000 2013
Anthony Miller at Tight End 2 yr/$5,000 2013
Mike Remmers at Tackle 2 yr/$5,000 2013
Drayton Florence at Cornerback 1 yr/$1,500,000 2012
Duke Ihenacho at Cornerback 1 yr/$8,500 2012
Jerry Franklin at Linebacker 1 yr/$10,000 2012
Ben Garland at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$666 2012
Wayne Tribue at Guard 1 yr/$2,000 2012
Syd'Quan Thompson at Cornerback 1 yr/$28,424 2012
Gerell Robinson at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$3,500 2012
Jamie Blatnick at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$10,000 2012
Duke Ihenacho at Cornerback 1 yr/$121,875 2012

all those in RED are UFA in 2012..

dead money or buyouts not sure what the status for money against the cap is in 2013


SO my esteemed friend was correct the roster is INDEED at 52 as we speak..

the question now is what are the newbies costing us for the coming year ( as it will have to be deducted from the 18.5 mil cap space that was quoted before we started siging folks to future contracst at the EOY ..)more to follow as I have the time to research

Dendave
01-24-2013, 04:01 PM
I could be wrong but seem to think it is a one time tag now the players hated it so much they held out for a one time tag..

someone else may want to check that out but the was one of the real points of contention.. I would think the players would not have caved on that..

No it's true, I saw it on the internet

Bmore Manning
01-24-2013, 04:24 PM
Hoe do you remotely think he is going to take 9.6. If anything it will be closer to 12 a year in cap hit.

Hell he turned down right at 10 a year last summer. IIRC five years for 45+ million. What makes you think he would not want a hell of a lot more?

As far as dj and Mayes yes you lose ten mil in salary. But you

ONE you have to replace both players as bodies not necessarily as LB but I'd guess losing at least brooking, dj and mayes they would add another lb or two to the roster.

So replacing a player is going cost you between 400 to 700 K EACH if they are role players. SO LET'S SAY A MILLION for the two. ( now that could be less if we just get bodies via UDFA. But not much less.

TWO The prorated bonus money has to be deducted from the upcoming cap. If I calculated this correctly that is close to 2 mil between the two.

So now instead of having all that 10 million to spend on Clady you really have something closer to 7.

Now I'm not trying to be him stile here. I just expect that folks be realistic.

If I'm wrong show me where I am. Back it up with facts not pipe dreams.

$9.6 Million would be the franchise tag amount. I had thought the 7.7 for DJ is subtracted from the cap with only the 1.7 bonus counting against the cap, meaning a $6 million cap savings to cut him. And Mays is closer to $4.. This is two less signed players, with about $10 million added to the cap, so if you draft a LB $400-$700k and the $9.6 tag for Clady.. This is essentially an even cap swap to at least keep Clady on the team and get a LB from the draft. Even roster and cap exchange essentially.

If you draft a LT, you may be saving loads of cap, but your using a first round draft pick, on not the same instant quality of a player. Lane Johnson is who your looking at come 28, he's not going to be as good as Clady year one. Or do you think so? Who's the free agent LT or draftee you would like? If you let Clady walk and you draft a LT instead of a MLB, other than saving money, how does that make the team better? You have no well thought out contingency plan but you are talking **** that we are dreaming for suggesting resigning him. In my Offseason Plan 1.0 on the draft forum, my only notable FA pick up was a cheap signing of Collie. And that's day dreaming!! Your something special.

DBroncos4life
01-24-2013, 04:28 PM
1. Justin Boren 405k
2. Paul Cornick 405k No Bonus
3. Ben Garland 405k
4. Gerell Robinson 405k
5. Quentin Saulsberry 405k
6. Aaron Brewer 480k 1,333
7. Omar Bolden 480k 249,396
8. Brock Osweiler 480k 172,708
9. Ronnie Hillman 480k 172,708
10. Trindon Holliday 480k
11. Philip Blake 480k 113,400
12. Sealver Siliga 480k
13. Duke Ihenacho 480k
14. Danny Trevathan 480k 26,018
15. Malik Jackson 480k 53,400
16. Steven Johnson 480k
17. Jeremiah Johnson 480k
18. Mario Fannin 480k
19. Derek Wolfe 480k 713,582
20. Julius Thomas 555k
21. Virgil Green 555k
22. Quinton Carter 555k 432,500
23. Chris Harris 555k
24. Nate Irving 555k 173,750
25. Rahim Moore 555k
26. C.J Davis 555k
27. Eric Decker 575k 183,037
28. Zane Beadles 575k 430,000
29. JD Walton 715k 199,625
30. Jacob Hester 715k
31. Manuel Ramirez 715k
32. Orlando Franklin 771k 420,000
33. Demaryius Thomas 836,500k 1,593,750
34. Andre Caldwell 900k 100,000
35. Robert Ayers 1,060,000 1,181,250
36. Caleb Hanie 1,250,000
37. Knowshon Moreno 1,700,000 1,775,750
38. Wesley Woodyard 2,000,000
39. Mike Adams 1,750,000 250k
40 Von Miller 2,284,125 3,443,251
41. Willis McGahee 2,500,000 500K
42. Jacob Tamme 2,500,000 500,000
43. Matt Prater 2,500,000 812,500
44. Joel Dreessen 2,500,000 833,333
45. Joe Mays 4,000,000 166,667
46. Chris Kuper 4,500,000 1,415,166
47. DJ Williams 6,000,000 1,732,500
48. Champ Bailey 9,000,000
49 Elvis Dumervil 12,000,000 4,675,000
50. Peyton Manning 20,000,000

If I read one more quote with Lonestar saying we only have 35 or 37 players under contract I'm going to flip out. All those players have a contract for NEXT SEASON

There are your base numbers of the 50 players under contract for the next season.

Grand total base salaries for next year are 92,726,625 million dollars. I do think that number is high due to the fact I think added extra money when I figured it to Moreno's contract.

Clearly we are doomed and should shut the team down.

20,787,749 in bonus and 1 million in dead money.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 04:42 PM
No it's true, I saw it on the internet

with a little research you are correct

How else did the franchise-tag rules change?

Teams can continuously franchise players, but it'll cost them to do that. As had been the case previously, a player tagged a second straight year would have his number set at 120 percent of the previous figure. A third straight year? That's where things change, and the percentage goes up to 144.

so it can be done thanks for the impetus to check it out..

I doubt that they would tag him more than once, because of the cost ..

but who knows.. for sure..

broncosteven
01-24-2013, 04:51 PM
There are your base numbers of the 50 players under contract for the next season.

Grand total base salaries for next year are 92,726,625 million dollars. I do think that number is high due to the fact I think added extra money when I figured it to Moreno's contract.

Clearly we are doomed and should shut the team down.

We should cut Manning because we can draft a QB to play cheaper.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 04:53 PM
$9.6 Million would be the franchise tag amount. I had thought the 7.7 for DJ is subtracted from the cap with only the 1.7 bonus counting against the cap, meaning a $6 million cap savings to cut him. And Mays is closer to $4.. This is two less signed players, with about $10 million added to the cap, so if you draft a LB $400-$700k and the $9.6 tag for Clady.. This is essentially an even cap swap to at least keep Clady on the team and get a LB from the draft. Even roster and cap exchange essentially.

If you draft a LT, you may be saving loads of cap, but your using a first round draft pick, on not the same instant quality of a player. Lane Johnson is who your looking at come 28, he's not going to be as good as Clady year one. Or do you think so? Who's the free agent LT or draftee you would like? If you let Clady walk and you draft a LT instead of a MLB, other than saving money, how does that make the team better? You have no well thought out contingency plan but you are talking **** that we are dreaming for suggesting resigning him. In my Offseason Plan 1.0 on the draft forum, my only notable FA pick up was a cheap signing of Collie. And that's day dreaming!! Your something special.

First of all I'm not angry about winning or losing a debate.. just want you to justify the numbers you put out..

thanks for coming back with this..

Yes I had someone else point out it would be tag money and not contract money

I'm not all that sure that a drafted OLT can not be just as good as clady is at this time..

his run blocking has always been less than great and lately since his knee issue the speed rushers have given him trouble while not officially giving up but one sack there have been hurries or forcing Manning up into he pocket..


You can go back and check my records/post about always wanting to up grade the OL and DL..

IMO that has been a weak spot for decades..

no need to be hostile just because all I have ever asked is how are you going to pay for some of the dream you and others have had..

Requiem
01-24-2013, 04:55 PM
Da dafffty doooodle da diddle doo da dummies Bowlen gots da pennies to draftie doops.

DBroncos4life
01-24-2013, 04:57 PM
We should cut Manning because we can draft a QB to play cheaper.

While true it means we would need a better LT because the QB is not Manning. What a conundrum we are in :P

broncosteven
01-24-2013, 04:57 PM
I had forgot about the non exclusive tag, that saves money or a roster spot and loads of cap money if he gets a better deal..

frankly I do not see him as the elite OLT that a few seem to think he is..

It will be interesting to see how the FO thinks on this..

I could be wrong as Hell on this and he just may be the second coming of Zimmerman.

But then if they do give him the keys to Pats House what do they use to sign the other players with..

for every guy they cut they have to replace them with a body and they are not free like so many here think..


unlike you I believe IF THEY ARE USED properly draft choices are more important than some players are..

for the most part if used proroperly they can indeed replace players fast.

one spot in particular is LB they can start immediately, may get beat from time to time, but if you have the right guy they should be a starter..

if the choice is correct the same should work for safety also.. has not worked for us lately but otehr teams seem to get it right..

I also believe that OL guys can step in and start day one.. again some growing pains as we saw with Walton, Beadles, Franklin and less so with Clady but we have proven the myth wrong about that..

Again unlike you I believe we are still rebuilding from the Mikey and Josh regimes.. John had brought in loads of one year contract guys, to fill the void while our kiddies earned their spurs..


OK I will play some more.

Lets say we let Clady walk and decide to draft a brand spanking new kid to start at LT day one.

Lets move from looking at the CAP to the draft.

We draft at what #26 in each round right?

Clady was drafted 12th overall, Brandon Albert, drafted 15th overall, Joe Thomas 3rd over all, etc...

Who is going to be there for us in the late 20's to pick then start and play at a level equal or better to Clady?

In your world do the Broncos move up 10 spots to get a Tackle they like? How many picks does that move cost us?

lonestar
01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
this is a dead money post to see what if anything carries over to 2013 according to sport trac..
http://www.spotrac.com/

all of those listed as dead money/buyouts on that site

this is what appears to be on the books for 2013 and has to fit under the cap..


Dead Money / Buyouts
Andre' Goodman at Cornerback 2013: 800,000
Coryell Judie at Cornerback 2013: 6,667
Eric Page at Wide Receiver
Ty Warren at Defensive Tackle
Jabar Gaffney at Wide Receiver
Eric Olsen at Guard
Perrish Cox at Cornerback
Darcel McBath at Safety
Richard Quinn at Tight End
Lonie Paxton at Long Snapper 2013: 182,600
Austin Wuebbels at Guard
Elliot Coffey at Linebacker 2013: 2,000
Anthony Miller at Tight End 2013: 3,334
Mike Remmers at Tackle
Drayton Florence at Cornerback
Duke Ihenacho at Cornerback
Jerry Franklin at Linebacker
Ben Garland at Defensive Tackle
Wayne Tribue at Guard
Syd'Quan Thompson at Cornerback
Gerell Robinson at Wide Receiver
Jamie Blatnick at Defensive Tackle



right at Million.. again if their numbers are correct..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 05:24 PM
There are your base numbers of the 50 players under contract for the next season.

Grand total base salaries for next year are 92,726,625 million dollars. I do think that number is high due to the fact I think added extra money when I figured it to Moreno's contract.

Clearly we are doomed and should shut the team down.

do you really beleive that we are going into teh season with what was practice squad player last year on the roster?

look I realize you do not like what I have been saying but, but I think we agree that if we started with 35 players a month ago under contract and we signed 17 because we actually have 52 players under contract for 2013 as we speak.. TWO do not have dollar values attached to them yet..

if we started with 35 solid players added 17 probably scrubs (all below normal player pricing ). we still have to draft at least six players and no doubt have a few UDFA as well as UFA coming.. what is left of that 21 million is going to go pretty fast..

that is IF Pat allows them to max out the cap this year..

Time will tell if John deems Caldy worth 12 million a year..

Myself I do not think he will..

BTW we have another 13 players with contracts expiring in 2013.. and other 19 going out in 2014..

so they may be looking at that long term stuff also when making the decision..

lonestar
01-24-2013, 05:37 PM
OK I will play some more.

Lets say we let Clady walk and decide to draft a brand spanking new kid to start at LT day one.

Lets move from looking at the CAP to the draft.

We draft at what #26 in each round right?

Clady was drafted 12th overall, Brandon Albert, drafted 15th overall, Joe Thomas 3rd over all, etc...

Who is going to be there for us in the late 20's to pick then start and play at a level equal or better to Clady?

In your world do the Broncos move up 10 spots to get a Tackle they like? How many picks does that move cost us?

Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..

24champ
01-24-2013, 05:41 PM
Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-m8n1urYA0s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

broncosteven
01-24-2013, 08:56 PM
Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..

I am not asking WHO you want I wanted to know WHERE you think they would get the new LT.

Your insane if you think a 2nd or 3rd round LT would come in and start day 1 and be equal or better than Clady.

Again you keep ignoring my references to the Chicago Bears OL issues, they drafted Gabe Carimi in the 1st round and they are still waiting for him to step up and pan out, that is after totally wiffing on Chris Williams and before that Marc Columbo (who eventually made a decent career bouncing around the league after getting cut for sucking.

I don't want names, I want to know how you figure John will draft a replacement that is = or > Clady.

Clady was the 2nd Tackle taken at 12 the year he was drafted, after that there was a run on tackles, 5 out of the next 10 picks were OT's.

If your saying let Clady walk and then get a guy in the draft that is = or > then we need to move up into or near the top 10. In order to that we would have to package at least 2, maybe even 3 picks which would totally hose up our development down the road and kill the chances that we aquire other positions of need like a top flight MLB, DT, RB, S, etc...

Missouribronc
01-24-2013, 10:12 PM
Here are the facts.

We had as a month ago 35 players under contract for 2013.
At that time we had 18.5 million under the cap.

We have since signed ten players to future contracts money unknown to me.

Since the roster is 53 and we had 18.5 to spend if Pat allows them to spend every dime, and since he has not the past four years there is little to elite he will this year .

We need 53 to fill out the roster. Means that 18 players have to fit under the cap numbers plus anther 7-10 that will hit IR before the end of the season.. All of which are going to have to be paid and still stay under the cap.

If you spend 12 million n Clady. 10 in salary and 2 in prorated bonus money. How are you going to to be able to afford to fill it the roster.

MO your smart where is the money going to come from.

Or do yu think all of those almost 30 players are going to fit into 6 million dollar..

Again IF Pat allows them to max there salary cap. Which he has not in at least 4 years.

Show me the mney MO.

I know they tried to sign him cheap last year. It back fired and now some other team will out bid them plain and simple

Unless he takes the same contract they offered him last year or less.

What are those odds?

Show me the money MO.

You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.

Missouribronc
01-24-2013, 10:26 PM
There's nearly $10 million coming OFF the books too...at least.

24champ
01-24-2013, 11:07 PM
You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.

But he's backed up by a ton of rep comments. "Loads" of people support him...

lonestar
01-24-2013, 11:10 PM
I am not asking WHO you want I wanted to know WHERE you think they would get the new LT.

Your insane if you think a 2nd or 3rd round LT would come in and start day 1 and be equal or better than Clady.

Again you keep ignoring my references to the Chicago Bears OL issues, they drafted Gabe Carimi in the 1st round and they are still waiting for him to step up and pan out, that is after totally wiffing on Chris Williams and before that Marc Columbo (who eventually made a decent career bouncing around the league after getting cut for sucking.

I don't want names, I want to know how you figure John will draft a replacement that is = or > Clady.

Clady was the 2nd Tackle taken at 12 the year he was drafted, after that there was a run on tackles, 5 out of the next 10 picks were OT's.

If your saying let Clady walk and then get a guy in the draft that is = or > then we need to move up into or near the top 10. In order to that we would have to package at least 2, maybe even 3 picks which would totally hose up our development down the road and kill the chances that we aquire other positions of need like a top flight MLB, DT, RB, S, etc...

I'll say it again. and hikite the part that you seemed to miss


Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..



I have never alluded to saying I'm know who or where the players come from.

I have said that and will stick by it that drafted players can start in the nFL.

Perhaps he will not be at Cladys level day one because even Clady was not at this level day one.

If they have to keep a TE or blocking back in to protect Manning on some plays so be it.

They do not wind up playing Clady on the vicinity of 12 mil(cap dollars) per year. Which he will not doubt get from some one.

You are not going to get me to commit to naming a player that will be as good or better than Clady is at this moment.

Hey maybe the next guy will be better. Hell Franklin surprised the hell out of folks this year with his improvement. And when was he drafted.

And Yes I know that manning has a limited life span in Denver,but we also have other priorities to pay for that 12 mil would go along way to fix other issues.



Hope that answers your questions

lonestar
01-24-2013, 11:12 PM
You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.

Show me the money.

Time will tell with what happens with Clady. And loads of other dreams of every poster on here.

lonestar
01-24-2013, 11:13 PM
There's nearly $10 million coming OFF the books too...at least.

Where is it coming from?

rugbythug
01-24-2013, 11:26 PM
Where is it coming from?

there are 48 players on our Roster I would cut to find money for Clady. Lucky for us we won't have to.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 12:53 AM
there are 48 players on our Roster I would cut to find money for Clady. Lucky for us we won't have to.

Actually there are 52 players on the roster 35 of which were on it at the end of season the last group was the practice squad and a few others were signed since the EOS.

Yet for the past at least 4 years and IIRC a couple of Mikey's last years Pat has held the GM/HC from sending the entire car space we actually had.

During the last throes of Mikey's time the rumor got started that Pat was broke.

While we supposedly have about 20 million in cap space, what makes anyone believe that Pat is going allow John to spend it all this year? Of that cap space we have 11.5 is being carried ver from last year.

What's makes folks think we will not carry that much to next year?

extralife
01-25-2013, 01:03 AM
What's makes folks think we will not carry that much to next year?

1. the carry over deal was a one time thing

2. 13-3. when you're close, you spend to get there. it's not rocket science, and bowlen has done it before.

Kaylore
01-25-2013, 01:16 AM
The new CBA requires each team to spend almost all of their cap. They no longer have the option of being cheap. Someone is getting that money.

24champ
01-25-2013, 02:04 AM
The people involved in financial decisions for the Broncos will probably raise ticket prices and the team is usually top 5 in revenue. They shouldn't have a hard time spending the necessary amount.

Beantown Bronco
01-25-2013, 04:28 AM
But he's backed up by a ton of rep comments. "Loads" of people support him...

I heard that he has binders full of rep.

colorado jones
01-25-2013, 07:20 AM
Want-a-be Internet GM's are by far the most annoying.

There is a reason you are sitting on your toilet posting on a football message board.

Bmore Manning
01-25-2013, 07:29 AM
First of all I'm not angry about winning or losing a debate.. just want you to justify the numbers you put out..

thanks for coming back with this..

Yes I had someone else point out it would be tag money and not contract money

I'm not all that sure that a drafted OLT can not be just as good as clady is at this time..

his run blocking has always been less than great and lately since his knee issue the speed rushers have given him trouble while not officially giving up but one sack there have been hurries or forcing Manning up into he pocket..


You can go back and check my records/post about always wanting to up grade the OL and DL..

IMO that has been a weak spot for decades..

no need to be hostile just because all I have ever asked is how are you going to pay for some of the dream you and others have had..

Why is resigning our own players INCLUDING Clady, and signing Collie to a cheap deal DREAMING? It's not dreaming at all. I just showed you how 2 players we were gonna essentially dump (Mays, DJ) can be replaced cap wise and roster wise by our best T and a draftee LB, which mark my words we will add one through the draft.

So how exactly is that not logical or DREAMING? Also say we draft a LT and don't resign Clady. What are we doing with all that extra cap room to improve the team?

DBroncos4life
01-25-2013, 09:30 AM
The Giants have 22 FA's and are 9 million dollars over the cap. I guess they should just pack it in and realize they are F'd for next year.

Kaylore
01-25-2013, 09:36 AM
Want-a-be Internet GM's are by far the most annoying.

There is a reason you are sitting on your toilet posting on a football message board.

Because I have diarrhea?

Rascal
01-25-2013, 09:43 AM
The new CBA requires each team to spend almost all of their cap. They no longer have the option of being cheap. Someone is getting that money.

I heard that, but I haven't been able to find out how much exactly. Got a link?

lonestar
01-25-2013, 11:41 AM
1. the carry over deal was a one time thing

2. 13-3. when you're close, you spend to get there. it's not rocket science, and bowlen has done it before.

Yes he did and it cost him hundreds of millions with I'd guess close to a hundred mil in dead money over the years.

So while I'd love to see every dime spent it is Pat decision to hold back since this is the last year he decides how much he can do so.

Next year they go to the new rules of having to spend at least 89% ofthe cap ceiling. Which if my numbers add up means for 121 cap year he can hold back a Shade over 13 mil. Which was about the same percentage as he did last year.

Btw the hold over thing was more than one year it started after the uncapped year.

Kaylore
01-25-2013, 11:47 AM
I heard that, but I haven't been able to find out how much exactly. Got a link?

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/23/3905376/minimum-salary-requirements-force-teams-to-spend-in-2013

At it's most generic and simplistic, teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of the salary cap starting in 2013. The projected NFL salary cap for 2013 is approximately $121 million with an approximate minimum of $107 million, aka the floor

lonestar
01-25-2013, 11:54 AM
The new CBA requires each team to spend almost all of their cap. They no longer have the option of being cheap. Someone is getting that money.

That is next year.
And while it requires the teams to spend more the collective amount is 89% of the total cap value across the league. IIRC. So that would mean that while WAS DAL SfO NYG NYJ will max out some of the smaller market teams like DEN KC BUF may not even have to get to 89% of the cap value.

Now I could be wrong. But that was how it was explained by one of the talking head during the announcement of the new CBA.

The 11.5 we could carry over to this year would have been about right at 10% of last years cap value. If the cap value was 114 or so.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 12:07 PM
Want-a-be Internet GM's are by far the most annoying.

There is a reason you are sitting on your toilet posting on a football message board.

To me the most annoying posters are the "I want" every flicking player that hits UFA and even worse those that are RFA Or anytime some one hears a rumor that a revis type player might hold out.

They have to be the first moron to start a new thread to ask the question what does everyone think.

Since 90% of the kiddies on here have no conception of budgets or management of personnel they get the answer they want hell yes. Without any idea if we could afford them and if asked then they promptly start by talking about cutting any with a cap ale over 50 bucks. So they can play FF owner.

As for my posts I have stated a few time that I do it when taking a dump. It was meant to be a funny as most of those threads were about crap anyway.

But as usuall most of the humor was completely over your HEAD.

See, another funny " head".

I realize some do not care for my commentary because I just state the facts as I know them. And when proved wrong I admit it and thank them for setting me straight unlike some of the morons on here. That take things personally and will never let it go.

Beantown Bronco
01-25-2013, 12:11 PM
And when proved wrong I admit it and thank them for setting me straight

textbook example of practice makes perfect

Jason7730
01-25-2013, 01:12 PM
^+1

lonestar
01-25-2013, 03:06 PM
Why is resigning our own players INCLUDING Clady, and signing Collie to a cheap deal DREAMING? It's not dreaming at all. I just showed you how 2 players we were gonna essentially dump (Mays, DJ) can be replaced cap wise and roster wise by our best T and a draftee LB, which mark my words we will add one through the draft.

So how exactly is that not logical or DREAMING? Also say we draft a LT and don't resign Clady. What are we doing with all that extra cap room to improve the team?

Again. If all we needed was a OLT that would be one thing. But we have several holes to fill and LOADs of depth to restore.

So spend 12 mil per year on one guy or spend that 12 mil On 3-4 guys which makes more sense to you.

But what you or I want makes no difference it is what John And John want.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 03:11 PM
The Giants have 22 FA's and are 9 million dollars over the cap. I guess they should just pack it in and realize they are F'd for next year.

They have been screwed for years just did not know it.

Yes they are going to have to make some major changes.

With all their fans clamoring for them to resign the hot shot RBs a few years ago, the managanement knew they would've sucking hind teat soon and allowed him to move on as they could not afford him long term.

broncosteven
01-25-2013, 03:21 PM
Again. If all we needed was a OLT that would be one thing. But we have several holes to fill and LOADs of depth to restore.

So spend 12 mil per year on one guy or spend that 12 mil On 3-4 guys which makes more sense to you.

But what you or I want makes no difference it is what John And John want.

Now your just proving my point, why add another "hole to fill" by letting a top 5 LT in the league walk?

We need an MLB, DT, OL, CB, S, and even saying that we can cover those positions with scheme. Signing PM to monster money then not protecting him with a proven vet in his blind side is a true waste of money.

I could almost see your point if we had a running QB like Kapernick or that scrub who washed out of the league in NY but we need to protect our old drop back passer.

Your looking at it from a money end which is something that a typical manager might do but a good manager would see his talent, weigh it against his needs and pay for it if it made his group stronger. A problem with American companies is that they look at the bottom line 1st and make decisions off of that rather than look at performance and how it will impact the future. OMG we can fire one dude and free up 160k and replace him with a kid out of college for 40k a year, there by passing up all that talent and experience to make a spread sheet look good.

Kaylore
01-25-2013, 03:23 PM
That is next year.
And while it requires the teams to spend more the collective amount is 89% of the total cap value across the league. IIRC. So that would mean that while WAS DAL SfO NYG NYJ will max out some of the smaller market teams like DEN KC BUF may not even have to get to 89% of the cap value.

Now I could be wrong. But that was how it was explained by one of the talking head during the announcement of the new CBA.

The 11.5 we could carry over to this year would have been about right at 10% of last years cap value. If the cap value was 114 or so.

You're wrong. It is this year and while it is spread out, the league isn't going to allow some teams to go cheap.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 03:33 PM
You're wrong. It is this year and while it is spread out, the league isn't going to allow some teams to go cheap.

By next year I meant 2013. Sorry that did not come across correct.

But the 89% is a league wide number correct ..

Therefore as long as the league hits that number the CBA is satisfied.

We all know the smaller market teams can not afford to hit the top number. Therefore the reason for it being an average.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

And even IF they do Pat could still stay on the lower edge of it and spend right at the 114 level which if my calculations are correct would be about only about ten mil more this year than last.

Requiem
01-25-2013, 03:53 PM
So does anyone have a current guess (Eddie mac, DB, etc.) at how much cap room we have now with the future contracts (50 players) signed? I know you still have to figure in dead money from years past, but I believe SportTrac has those numbers.

If anyone has a good estimate or guess, let me know. It would be helpful when trying to calculate the money that would be available. I've read from various places that the number is ~ $18.5 where we stand now. Is that correct? Seems like it would more given DB's post on the 50 contracts equaling the number he posted, but I am assuming that didn't include bonuses, dead money, etc.

In my opinion, lonestar's huffing and puffing about the cap and us not having enough money is absurd. Basically, he just doesn't like Clady. Here is why we can fiscally do it:

Ryan Clady is the only big name free agent we have this year: It isn't like we are some team who has four good players with contracts expiring.

The free agents worth retaining are likely to come at an affordable price:

I see the Broncos re-signing David Bruton to keep playing special teams. He will be an affordable contract. Justin Bannan can be re-signed on the cheap home discount. He likes playing for Del Rio and I doubt would get more lucrative offers at anywhere else at this point in his career. Bring back Kevin Vickerson. He is an RFA. If another team wants him, they lose a pick. He won't be getting a huge contract, but like Bannan, can operate in this scheme and be effective.

Bring back Koppen unless you feel the need to draft someone to compete with J.D. Walton. Great interior prospects this year. Could be considered. Does Stokley have another year of fire? If so, he is coming cheap. Brian Leonhard isn't going to break the bank either. How many players outside of this is that? 5 or 6? Doubt that even costs us more than 15 million, probably even less.

Ball, Brooking, Gronkowski, Hunter, Warren, Willis can all go elsewhere. What is the status on Hester?

Players like Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter will probably be back on the team as ERFA. [Maybe Carter isn't] We are the only team that can offer them contracts. I'm betting they will come back at pretty cheap prices.

At least five rookies are going to make the team and be playing for a relatively small amount of change. Some of them are likely to replace positions on the team right now that are costing us much more money, i.e. -- linebacker. I don't see any way possible that the Broncos go in to 2013 with Williams and Mays both here accounting for over $11 million against the cap. There are other players like Caleb Hanie who could be trimmed and we could get savings there as well too.

Ryan Clady needs to be re-signed. We have some starters, but mostly role players and depth to replace. It won't be hard to retain them, and with a few quality draft selections, we will have upgrades over most all of them. Jesus.

Kaylore
01-25-2013, 04:11 PM
By next year I meant 2013. Sorry that did not come across correct.

But the 89% is a league wide number correct ..

Therefore as long as the league hits that number the CBA is satisfied.

We all know the smaller market teams can not afford to hit the top number. Therefore the reason for it being an average.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

And even IF they do Pat could still stay on the lower edge of it and spend right at the 114 level which if my calculations are correct would be about only about ten mil more this year than last.

He theoretically could, but there are provisions in there to prevent it. Among them are that the league has to pay the difference the the players union, which no one wants to do, and there are things they can do to the teams for not meeting the minimum.

Honestly, the league has to try and hit %100 and the league will self-enforce each team spending at least %89 of their cap each. And you are correct in that the new season doesn't start for a few months, but that is the cap number we're all talking about here.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 04:12 PM
Now your just proving my point, why add another "hole to fill" by letting a top 5 LT in the league walk?

We need an MLB, DT, OL, CB, S, and even saying that we can cover those positions with scheme. Signing PM to monster money then not protecting him with a proven vet in his blind side is a true waste of money.

I could almost see your point if we had a running QB like Kapernick or that scrub who washed out of the league in NY but we need to protect our old drop back passer.

Your looking at it from a money end which is something that a typical manager might do but a good manager would see his talent, weigh it against his needs and pay for it if it made his group stronger. A problem with American companies is that they look at the bottom line 1st and make decisions off of that rather than look at performance and how it will impact the future. OMG we can fire one dude and free up 160k and replace him with a kid out of college for 40k a year, there by passing up all that talent and experience to make a spread sheet look good.

Yes I am looking at it from a monetary angle, never said I was not in fact I have always said show me the money..


most poster on here are strictly looking at talent and while that is nice our super bolw team had to be blown up because we could not sustain the talent level because the players ALL wanted more money than we had..

not only did we have players retire but had several Sharpe, Atwater and ROmo being the most noticeable moved on for more money even though we had other biggie players retire mikey shot his wad getting the rings with ZERO concerns for next year..

even with those players retiring we still had NO cap room..

SO a good Gm should be looking at what happens next year also when he is putting together packages for this year..

SO even IF we are able to slide enough money for clady this year what happens next year.. and the year after.. you are talking about just handleing the Profits for this year .. a good GM VP should be looking long term.. something that John said he would be doing by building the team via the draft .. which he has and by signing short term rental UFA mostly one year guys.. But that is starting to bite him in the !@#$%^&* also..

note the following guys that leave the team in 2013 and then in 2014.. we will have to have money then to sign the good ones and most of what are leaving are good one IMO..



52. Greg Orton at Wide Receiver 1 yr/TBD 2013 2014
51. Mario Butler at Cornerback 1 yr/TBD 2013 2014
1. Justin Boren 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
2. Paul Cornick 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
3. Ben Garland 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
5. Quentin Saulsberry 1 yr/$405,000 2013 2014
10. Trindon Holliday 2 yr/$870,000 2013 2014
12. Sealver Siliga 2 yr/$870,000 2013 2014
13. Duke Ihenacho 1 yr/$480,000 2013 2014
17. Jeremiah Johnson 1 yr/$480,000 2013 2014
18. Mario Fannin 3 yr/$1,405,000 2013 2014
23. Chris Harris 3 yr/$1,398,000 2013 2014
26. C.J Davis 2 yr/$1,020,000 2013 2014
27. Eric Davis think you meant decker..
Eric Decker 4 yr/$2,522,150 2013 2014
28. Zane Beadles 4 yr/$4,171,000 2013 2014
29. JD Walton 4 yr/$2,588,500 2013 2014
30. Jacob Hester 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
31. Manuel Ramirez 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
34. Andre Caldwell 2 yr/$1,800,000 2013 2014
35. Robert Ayers 5 yr/$15,500,000 2013 2014
36. Caleb Hanie 2 yr/$2,250,000 2013 2014
37. Knowshon Moreno 5 yr/$16,700,000 2013 2015
38. Wesley Woodyard 2 yr/$3,500,000 2013 2014
39. Mike Adams 2 yr/$4,000,000 2013 2014


40 Von Miller 4 yr/$21,000,380 2014 2015
41. Willis McGahee 4 yr/$9,500,000 2014 2015
42. Jacob Tamme 3 yr/$8,000,000 2014 2015
32. Orlando Franklin 4 yr/$4,350,000 2014 2015
33. Demaryius Thomas 5 yr/$12,155,000 2014 2015
44. Joel Dreessen 3 yr/$8,500,000 2014 2015
45. Joe Mays 3 yr/$12,000,000 2014 2015
24. Nate Irving 4 yr/$2,735,000 2014 2015
25. Rahim Moore 4 yr/$4,448,000 2014 2015
20. Julius Thomas 4 yr/$2,420,000 2014 2015
21. Virgil Green 4 yr/$2,160,000 2014 2015
22. Quinton Carter 4 yr/$2,490,000 2014 2015
48. Champ Bailey 4 yr/$43,000,000 2014 2015
16. Steven Johnson 3 yr/$1,452,000 2014 2015
4. Gerell Robinson 2 yr/$900,000 2014 2015
6. Aaron Brewer 3 yr/$1,444,000 2014 2015

11. Philip Blake 4 yr/$2,554,000 2015 2016
46. Chris Kuper 6 yr/$28,012,000 2015 2016
14. Danny Trevathan 4 yr/$2,204,072 2015 2016
15. Malik Jackson 4 yr/$2,313,600 2015 2016
7. Omar Bolden 4 yr/$2,574,428 2015 2016
8. Brock Osweiler 4 yr/$3,100,000 2015 2016
9. Ronnie Hillman 4 yr/$3,000,000 2015 2016
43. Matt Prater 4 yr/$13,000,000 2015 2016
19. Derek Wolfe 4 yr/$6,247,675 2015 2016



47. DJ Williams 6 yr/$32,000,000 2013 2014

23 players becoming unrestricted free agents after this coming season..

16 becoming UFA in 2014..

SO IMO they will be looking at those numbers also when hthey are deciding about Clady or any other player they want to sign..

YES the cap does go up each year but 23 players at teh lowest end that need to be replaced at the end of this next season is a bunch and will cost us some coin to sign at least this group..

Eric Decker 4 yr/$2,522,150 2013 2014
28. Zane Beadles 4 yr/$4,171,000 2013 2014
29. JD Walton 4 yr/$2,588,500 2013 2014
30. Jacob Hester 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
31. Manuel Ramirez 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
35. Robert Ayers 5 yr/$15,500,000 2013 2014
37. Knowshon Moreno 5 yr/$16,700,000 2013 2015
38. Wesley Woodyard 2 yr/$3,500,000 2013 2014

and IF you do not resign them they are going to be hard to replace.. and cost money.. then of course we have the following year..


40 Von Miller 4 yr/$21,000,380 2014 2015
41. Willis McGahee 4 yr/$9,500,000 2014 2015
42. Jacob Tamme 3 yr/$8,000,000 2014 2015
32. Orlando Franklin 4 yr/$4,350,000 2014 2015
33. Demaryius Thomas 5 yr/$12,155,000 2014 2015

now maybe tamme and Willis are not biggies but DT and Von as well as franklin will be..

so yes I look at more than this minute when I'm making my decisions and just because there is money left in the bank, that does not mean you have to spend it right now..

Does what I have presented, make it harder to Clady to a whopper contract IMO YES..


The broncos have a Cap specialist that is doing much the same thing but in far deeper detail.. then generalities that I have shown..

I will say it again..

So far John has given me no reason than to trust what he is doing (even if he fubared Mayes)

I see no indications that he is going mikey on us.. every thing has been planned out.. Even telling DJ if he wanted to come back this year to us he would have to redo his existing contract for 2012.

Almost all of his UFA have been short term and have for the most part worked out well.. which means he is still on board for building via the draft which is the most economical way to field a team..

lonestar
01-25-2013, 04:25 PM
He theoretically could, but there are provisions in there to prevent it. Among them are that the league has to pay the difference the the players union, which no one wants to do, and there are things they can do to the teams for not meeting the minimum.

Honestly, the league has to try and hit %100 and the league will self-enforce each team spending at least %89 of their cap each. And you are correct in that the new season doesn't start for a few months, but that is the cap number we're all talking about here.

OK a reasonable response..

But have questions and frankly I do not see how they could force a team to max out..

since at least in the past all player that hit IR had to fall under the cap, how can you go into the season at max cap, have a player hit IR and then be able to replace them.. If they were at max cap starting the season how are they going to handle it..

If they do not count the money on IR players then what is to stop teams from placing player there to lower the cap values?

or better yet stash them away for next year?

every thing I read and heard told me that the 89% was the minimum they any team had to spend and it was placed there for the smaller market owners to ensure they could remain profitable..

that the league ONLY had to hit the 89% total league wide or penalties then would be in play..

there is no way for every team to get to 100% without going over and still have the IR provision..

then add in the presumed incentive bonus money that has to be added into the cap, for "reaching the pro bowl", getting 15 sacks, having a QBR of 100.. etc.. if that money is counted in the cap money then I see the owners padding that area with unreachable goals to save paying them real money..

What say you?

Bmore Manning
01-25-2013, 04:29 PM
So does anyone have a current guess (Eddie mac, DB, etc.) at how much cap room we have now with the future contracts (50 players) signed? I know you still have to figure in dead money from years past, but I believe SportTrac has those numbers.

If anyone has a good estimate or guess, let me know. It would be helpful when trying to calculate the money that would be available. I've read from various places that the number is ~ $18.5 where we stand now. Is that correct? Seems like it would more given DB's post on the 50 contracts equaling the number he posted, but I am assuming that didn't include bonuses, dead money, etc.

In my opinion, lonestar's huffing and puffing about the cap and us not having enough money is absurd. Basically, he just doesn't like Clady. Here is why we can fiscally do it:

Ryan Clady is the only big name free agent we have this year: It isn't like we are some team who has four good players with contracts expiring.

The free agents worth retaining are likely to come at an affordable price:

I see the Broncos re-signing David Bruton to keep playing special teams. He will be an affordable contract. Justin Bannan can be re-signed on the cheap home discount. He likes playing for Del Rio and I doubt would get more lucrative offers at anywhere else at this point in his career. Bring back Kevin Vickerson. He is an RFA. If another team wants him, they lose a pick. He won't be getting a huge contract, but like Bannan, can operate in this scheme and be effective.

Bring back Koppen unless you feel the need to draft someone to compete with J.D. Walton. Great interior prospects this year. Could be considered. Does Stokley have another year of fire? If so, he is coming cheap. Brian Leonhard isn't going to break the bank either. How many players outside of this is that? 5 or 6? Doubt that even costs us more than 15 million, probably even less.

Ball, Brooking, Gronkowski, Hunter, Warren, Willis can all go elsewhere. What is the status on Hester?

Players like Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter will probably be back on the team as ERFA. [Maybe Carter isn't] We are the only team that can offer them contracts. I'm betting they will come back at pretty cheap prices.

At least five rookies are going to make the team and be playing for a relatively small amount of change. Some of them are likely to replace positions on the team right now that are costing us much more money, i.e. -- linebacker. I don't see any way possible that the Broncos go in to 2013 with Williams and Mays both here accounting for over $11 million against the cap. There are other players like Caleb Hanie who could be trimmed and we could get savings there as well too.

Ryan Clady needs to be re-signed. We have some starters, but mostly role players and depth to replace. It won't be hard to retain them, and with a few quality draft selections, we will have upgrades over most all of them. Jesus.

That's TBD based on the 53 man roster.. That's what's counted against the cap. Who gets cut, their dead money, players bonus money, all those variables are circumstantial to how you tweak it.

Did DB4L's 50 contracts included the total cap hit, or just Salary?

Missouribronc
01-25-2013, 04:44 PM
Where is it coming from?

Let's start with the basics.

First, Clady's cap hit was nearly $6 million in 2012. So if the Broncos pay him $12 million (Joe Thomas money) they only take an extra cap hit of $6 million. The cap hits don't compound.

That doesn't even include the $11.97 million in cap hits coming off the books for free agents to be, i.e., Lance Ball ($540,000), Tracy Porter ($4,000,000), Bannon ($1,000,000), Brookings ($1,000,000), Chris Clark ($540,000), Chris Gronkowski ($540,000), Jim Leonhard ($890,000), Jason Hunter ($700,000), Ty Warren ($1,500,000) and Matt Willis ($1,260,000), that likely won't be resigned.

That leaves roughly $27.97 million of cap room flexibility. Take into consideration that Denver's rookie cap hits last year was something like $4 million, so that still leaves the Broncos with $23.97 million in cap space to work with even after signing Clady.

Granted, there will be some dead cap space accrued from something, and that will cut down on that, but there's also a lot of dead cap space that comes off the books too.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 05:23 PM
Let's start with the basics.

First, Clady's cap hit was nearly $6 million in 2012. So if the Broncos pay him $12 million (Joe Thomas money) they only take an extra cap hit of $6 million. The cap hits don't compound.

That doesn't even include the $11.97 million in cap hits coming off the books for free agents to be, i.e., Lance Ball ($540,000), Tracy Porter ($4,000,000), Bannon ($1,000,000), Brookings ($1,000,000), Chris Clark ($540,000), Chris Gronkowski ($540,000), Jim Leonhard ($890,000), Jason Hunter ($700,000), Ty Warren ($1,500,000) and Matt Willis ($1,260,000), that likely won't be resigned.

That leaves roughly $27.97 million of cap room flexibility. Take into consideration that Denver's rookie cap hits last year was something like $4 million, so that still leaves the Broncos with $23.97 million in cap space to work with even after signing Clady.

Granted, there will be some dead cap space accrued from something, and that will cut down on that, but there's also a lot of dead cap space that comes off the books too.

YET the cap hit each year would be 12 million addition by subtraction just does not work.. 12 mil is 12 mill is 12 mil..

does any one really believe that he is worth 12 million.. I'm sure on here all the kiddies will swoon over it.. but I doubt that John will when the long term realities hit him..

yet he is NOT the same guy we had as a rookie since his knew issue he has never been the same last year 2011 he led the league in holding penalties this year the speed rushers have been all over him and while he did only allow one sack this year, he made Manning visibly nervous forcing him to step up into the pocket or roll out away FROM clady on numerous occasions.. ..

Does that mean he will be 100 % of what he was a rookie? I'll let John and John worry about that..

Again if they find the money OK by me as they are a lot closer to the situation than you or I am..

the facts were when I originally posted numbers were :


we had 18.5 mil in free space going into the season.. 11 and change of which was roll over money.. those were numbers gathered and published by a national concern.. Whether they are spot on or not I do not know for sure.. but none the less 18.5 million..

we had 35 players under contract at that time according to sporttrac all of which I listed, since then we have signed apx 17 players to future contracts.. totaling as of yesterday (24Jan) 52 players . all listed above in this thread..


now numerous others have went thru the numbers and posted salaries of those they found, I have not checked their accuracy and everyone that has done so has come up with different numbers who is spot on or not I have no idea..


while I appreciate your taking last years numbers and subtracting out who you believe will be gone I still stand on 18.5 million IF Pat allows us to spend it all to fill out some 25 roster spots when the season starts and that includes the number of IR players that have to fit under the cap.. 35 on the list adding 18 for the 53 man roster plus an average of 7 on IR or 60 players.. 25 players for 18.5 mil 740 K per person..

BTW I note you did not list Williams on the cut list, that IMO is a for sure cut..


but thanks again for your thoughts,, even IF I do not see it the way you do....

BTW the real dead money according to Sportrac i listed above at about 1 million for the coming year NOT counting who they may cut in the future

DBroncos4life
01-25-2013, 05:33 PM
So does anyone have a current guess (Eddie mac, DB, etc.) at how much cap room we have now with the future contracts (50 players) signed? I know you still have to figure in dead money from years past, but I believe SportTrac has those numbers.

If anyone has a good estimate or guess, let me know. It would be helpful when trying to calculate the money that would be available. I've read from various places that the number is ~ $18.5 where we stand now. Is that correct? Seems like it would more given DB's post on the 50 contracts equaling the number he posted, but I am assuming that didn't include bonuses, dead money, etc.

In my opinion, lonestar's huffing and puffing about the cap and us not having enough money is absurd. Basically, he just doesn't like Clady. Here is why we can fiscally do it:

Ryan Clady is the only big name free agent we have this year: It isn't like we are some team who has four good players with contracts expiring.

The free agents worth retaining are likely to come at an affordable price:

I see the Broncos re-signing David Bruton to keep playing special teams. He will be an affordable contract. Justin Bannan can be re-signed on the cheap home discount. He likes playing for Del Rio and I doubt would get more lucrative offers at anywhere else at this point in his career. Bring back Kevin Vickerson. He is an RFA. If another team wants him, they lose a pick. He won't be getting a huge contract, but like Bannan, can operate in this scheme and be effective.

Bring back Koppen unless you feel the need to draft someone to compete with J.D. Walton. Great interior prospects this year. Could be considered. Does Stokley have another year of fire? If so, he is coming cheap. Brian Leonhard isn't going to break the bank either. How many players outside of this is that? 5 or 6? Doubt that even costs us more than 15 million, probably even less.

Ball, Brooking, Gronkowski, Hunter, Warren, Willis can all go elsewhere. What is the status on Hester?

Players like Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter will probably be back on the team as ERFA. [Maybe Carter isn't] We are the only team that can offer them contracts. I'm betting they will come back at pretty cheap prices.

At least five rookies are going to make the team and be playing for a relatively small amount of change. Some of them are likely to replace positions on the team right now that are costing us much more money, i.e. -- linebacker. I don't see any way possible that the Broncos go in to 2013 with Williams and Mays both here accounting for over $11 million against the cap. There are other players like Caleb Hanie who could be trimmed and we could get savings there as well too.

Ryan Clady needs to be re-signed. We have some starters, but mostly role players and depth to replace. It won't be hard to retain them, and with a few quality draft selections, we will have upgrades over most all of them. Jesus.

I added bonus on that original post. Denver has only 1 million dollars in dead money. Right now with bonus we are roughly at 114,514,370.

lonestar
01-25-2013, 05:43 PM
I added bonus on that original post. Denver has only 1 million dollars in dead money. Right now with bonus we are roughly at 114,514,370.

So recap this as we have been all I've over the place with numbers.

For the 50-52 players on the roster right now we have committed including dead money 115 mil?

Is that what you are saying?

colorado jones
01-25-2013, 05:48 PM
Because I have diarrhea?

Lol... Yes, diarrhea of the brain.

Missouribronc
01-25-2013, 08:00 PM
YET the cap hit each year would be 12 million addition by subtraction just does not work.. 12 mil is 12 mill is 12 mil..

does any one really believe that he is worth 12 million.. I'm sure on here all the kiddies will swoon over it.. but I doubt that John will when the long term realities hit him..

yet he is NOT the same guy we had as a rookie since his knew issue he has never been the same last year 2011 he led the league in holding penalties this year the speed rushers have been all over him and while he did only allow one sack this year, he made Manning visibly nervous forcing him to step up into the pocket or roll out away FROM clady on numerous occasions.. ..

Does that mean he will be 100 % of what he was a rookie? I'll let John and John worry about that..

Again if they find the money OK by me as they are a lot closer to the situation than you or I am..

the facts were when I originally posted numbers were :


we had 18.5 mil in free space going into the season.. 11 and change of which was roll over money.. those were numbers gathered and published by a national concern.. Whether they are spot on or not I do not know for sure.. but none the less 18.5 million..

we had 35 players under contract at that time according to sporttrac all of which I listed, since then we have signed apx 17 players to future contracts.. totaling as of yesterday (24Jan) 52 players . all listed above in this thread..


now numerous others have went thru the numbers and posted salaries of those they found, I have not checked their accuracy and everyone that has done so has come up with different numbers who is spot on or not I have no idea..


while I appreciate your taking last years numbers and subtracting out who you believe will be gone I still stand on 18.5 million IF Pat allows us to spend it all to fill out some 25 roster spots when the season starts and that includes the number of IR players that have to fit under the cap.. 35 on the list adding 18 for the 53 man roster plus an average of 7 on IR or 60 players.. 25 players for 18.5 mil 740 K per person..

BTW I note you did not list Williams on the cut list, that IMO is a for sure cut..


but thanks again for your thoughts,, even IF I do not see it the way you do....

BTW the real dead money according to Sportrac i listed above at about 1 million for the coming year NOT counting who they may cut in the future

What?

Of course a franchise tackle is worth $12 mill. That's the going rate.

As to the rest of that crap, you obviously can't even do simple math, let alone cap-related math.

The Broncos had $22 million, or $18 million THIS SEASON. That's not even close to a finite number for NEXT SEASON.

That's why it does matter who is let go to free agency and who re-signs.

This is simple logic.

www.spotrac.com has everything, and that's verified information. Read. Stop posting until you comprehend.

Missouribronc
01-25-2013, 08:04 PM
And they are required to spend $106.8 million.

The Bowlen is broke conspiracies are dumb.

jutang
01-25-2013, 10:00 PM
Given how quick Manning gets rid of the football and the fact how offenses rarely do 7 step drop backs anymore, is Clady worth taking up all that cap space?

Look at the Baltimore game and how Doom got shut out b/c he was blatantly held on every play. This offense would still be deadly with a slightly above average LT.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 12:41 AM
Given how quick Manning gets rid of the football and the fact how offenses rarely do 7 step drop backs anymore, is Clady worth taking up all that cap space?

Look at the Baltimore game and how Doom got shut out b/c he was blatantly held on every play. This offense would still be deadly with a slightly above average LT.

A fact lost on almost everyone else.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 01:19 AM
What?

Of course a franchise tackle is worth $12 mill. That's the going rate.

As to the rest of that crap, you obviously can't even do simple math, let alone cap-related math.

The Broncos had $22 million, or $18 million THIS SEASON. That's not even close to a finite number for NEXT SEASON.

That's why it does matter who is let go to free agency and who re-signs.

This is simple logic.

www.spotrac.com has everything, and that's verified information. Read. Stop posting until you comprehend.


The simple fact is I used those number from sportrac several weeks ago for this info.


Carryover rules impact cap strategy

The Miami Dolphins have $35.8 million, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers $31.3 million, the Jacksonville Jaguars $22.1 million, the Buffalo Bills $20.6 million and the Tennessee Titans $19.4 million.

On the negative side, the New York Jets are $19.4 million over the cap. The Dallas Cowboys are $18.2 million over, the New Orleans Saints $14.7 million over and the Carolina Panthers $11.8 million over.


For chart and list of all teams cap numbers: http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8822266/nfl-mailbag-carryover-rules-impact-cap-strategy

This was posted in another thread. It shows the information of how I came to those numbers. 


Denver rolled over 26 million into the Salary Cap in 2012, this made our Cap Total $147.26 Million of money available to be spent, which includes salary and bonus. Denver spent around $137.53 Million this season.. which means there’s about $10 million dollars of Cap Rollover into next season.. this is where I got my $10 Cap Room Number. That’s just rollover money, so this puts the spending mark limit around $131 Million roughly.. the Salary Cap is projected to be about $121 Million for 2013. 

Now here is the intricate part which I said requires some pretty extensive research.. below is a list of the players under contract for the Denver Broncos heading into the 2013 NFL season and THEIR SALARY.. take note that this does not reflect the total salary cap number, because it does not include bonuses. I am not privied to what teams pay out for in bonuses prior to the season.. we know that there is typically a signing bonus associated with most contracts, and this guaranteed money gets prorated over the contract for several years. This is why when you go on spot tract you are only able to see Cap Hit for 2012.. in will say Salary, Signing Bonus, Other Bonus.. these numbers added up are what give you your Cap Hit for the year.

Manning $20 M
Dumervil $12 M
Bailey $9 M
DJ Williams $6 M
Kuper $4.5 M
Dreesen, Prater, & Tamme $2.5 M
Von Miller $2.28 M
Woodyard $2 M
Adams $1.75 M
Moreno $1.7 M
Hanie $1.25 M
Ayers $1.06 M 
Caldwell $900 K
DT $836 K
Franklin $771 K
Ramirez & Hester $715 K
Beadles & Decker $575 K
Julius Thomas, Moore, Green, Irving, & Harris $555 K
Wolfe, Brewer, Malik Jackson, Steve Johnson, Bolden, Trevethan, Holliday, Hillman, & Osweiler $480 K

Salary Total Roughly $89 Million 
So that is a current salary cap hit of $89 Million, this does not include bonuses, again I am not privied to bonuses because I do not have their actual contracts in front of me. But I do know based on viewing the amount of time left on current players contracts, there should not be a significant bonus cap hit… over the length of a time of a contract the cap hit either goes up or comes down, fortunately for us, our players with higher cap hits had more front loaded contracts, and what you see is what you get.. 

Signing Rookie Players
To sign a draft class will count about $7 Million against the cap..
This puts Denver at a $96 Million Cap Hit, this is with the list of players above and our signed draft class.. Remember this does not include the bonus money of players from the long list above, but that $7 million draft class is a very accurate total cap hit gauge. 

Bonuses
As I have reieterated throughout the post, I am not privied to what the entire cap hit will be per player under contract because I do not know what their contract allows for in terms of bonuses. What I do know is the big name free agent who will get a huge signing bonus this offseason that will be prorated over the contract will be Ryan Clady, assuming of course he is resigned. When free agents sign a contract, they care more about the guaranteed money that they will get upfront and no matter if they are injured or not, salary is an after thought. Denver had $30 million dollars of bonuses towards the cap last season. If we assume that number is the same for 2013, then our cap figure is now $126 Million… this includes the entire list of current signed players, our draft class signed, and all bonuses included…
This will have Denver with about $5 million to spend towards impending free agents and free agents that will hit the open market. I just want to note I do not think the bonus money will account for some $30 million dollars next season, I expect about $20 million.. which gives us $15 million to spend towards free agency.

Impending Free Agents
Lance Ball, Justin Bannan, Keith Brooking, David Bruton, Tony Carter, Chris Clark, Britton Colquitt
C.J. Davis, Chris Gronkowski, Dan Koppen, Jim Leonhard, Sealver Siliga, Brandon Stokley, Mitch Unrein
Kevin Vickerson, Matt Willis, Tracy Porter, and Ryan Clady.

Conclusion
We are a very fortunate team in the NFL to have such a plethora of skilled young talent.. right now we are paying peanuts for guys who are doing great things on the roster. Regardless of who you think we should resign, who you think we should draft, who you think we should pursue in free agency.. you need to have a firm grasp of where we stand in regards to the cap. Maybe you think some deals should be reworked, maybe some players should be outright cut so we can increase our ability to spend. 
My best assessment puts Denver with $5-$15 Million towards free agency spending.. that included our own impending free agents as well as whats their on the market. I spent several hours on this.. so make sure when you Draft Gurus use my numbers in your Mock threads, you be sure to give me a shout out, or reference that you got the numbers from me.. Enjoy the numbers and get creative!!

actual numbers from the site quoted..

Players currently under contract for 2013..

$104,209K and Change..

2012 players that will need to be replaced in some manner Unlikely most of these will be cheaper..   Other than Porter who was expensive as a Backup but would have been decent as a starter at $4mil..  

$22,609k and change  

total of the money is $126,818 K and change..


         Base Salary S. Bonus Misc. Bonus Cap Hit
Dumervil  2013 12,000,000 423,000 4,525,000 16,948,00
Bailey 2013 9,000,000 - 1,500,000 10,500,000
Adams 2013 1,750,000 - 250,000 2,000,000
Ayers $2013 1,060,000 - 1,181,250 2,241,250  
Beadles 2013 575,000 430,000 - 1,005,000
Bolden 2013 480,000 118,607 - 598,607
Brewer      2013 480,000 1,333 - 481,333
Caldewell 2013 900,000 100,000 - 1,000,000
Decker 2013 575,000 183,037 - 758,037
Dressen  2013 2,500,000 833,333 - 3,333,333
Franklin 2013 771,000 420,000 - 1,191,000
Green 2013 555,000 4,320 - 559,320
Gronkowski  2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Hanie        2013 1,250,000 - - 1,250,000
HArris c   2013 555,000 1,000 - 556,000
Hester       2013 715,000 - - 715,000
Hilman  2013 480,000 172,708 - 652,708
Holiday      2013 480,000 - - 480,000
Irving   2013 555,000 173,750 - 728,750
Jackson      2013 480,000 53,400 - 533,400
Johnson     2013 480,000 4,000 - 484,000
Kuper   2013 4,500,000 315,166 1,100,000 5,915,166
Manning  2013 20,000,000 -   -   20,000,000
Miller   2013 2,284,125 3,443,251 - 5,727,376
Moore    2013 555,000 432,500 - 987,500
Moreno      2013 1,700,000 832,000 943,750 3,475,750
Osweliere   2013 480,000 249,396 - 729,396
Pratar   2013 2,500,000 812,500 - 3,312,500
Tamme    2013 2,500,000 500,000 - 3,000,000
Thomas D  2013 836,500 1,593,750 - 2,430,250
Thomas J   2013 555,000 96,000 - 651,000
Trevathan   2013 480,000 26,018 - 506,018
Williams  2013 6,000,000 250,000 1,482,500 7,732,500
Wolfe   2013 480,000 566,910 146,672 1,193,582
Woodyard   2013 2,000,000 - - 2,000,000

*****************

RFA/UFA
Ball           2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Bannan     2012 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Brooking 2012 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Burton  2012 615,000 120,600 - 735,600
Carter 2012 615,000 - - 615,000
Clady   2012 3,500,000 - 2,329,375 5,829,375
Clark  2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Colquitt 2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Davis   2012 615,000 - - 615,000
Koppen    2012 825,000 - - 825,000
Leonard   2012 825,000 65,000 - 890,000
Porter   2012 3,000,000 1,000,000 - 4,000,000
Ramierez   2013 715,000 - - 715,000
Siliga   2012 390,000 - - 390,000
Stokely   2012 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Urein   2012 415,000 - - 415,000
Vickerson   2012 1,200,000 500,000 - 1,700,000
Willis    2012 1,260,000 - - 1,260,000



 While I applaud BMs work and thoughts here I see us with less than 20 million to work with to fill all the UFA or RFA spots that I either did not have valid numbers for for 2013 (RFA) or holes that  UFA create..

that is assuming we do not resign Clady to the mega contract he is looking for..
  If we do then we are looking at about 8 million of which he thinks 7 will be for Rookie contracts..

Now let me add something in here, Pat has had both Josh and John on a short leash in spending up to the cap value..   Therefore unless he opens up the purse strings we are either going to have to redo under performing players  contracts, cut some of these guys or NOT sign any UFA and since we currently have only 35 players under contract something will have to give....



So while I may be of a bit on my numbers at the time I did this they were spot on.

As for Clady he may be worth 12 million a year as a franchise OLT. The question John has to ask is he to rich for our blood. considering we have IIRC 24 more UFA at the end if the 2013 season. Can we afford him and and sign those that need to be kept from that list that is posted above.

Thanks for your normal courteous reply. Just like the old days. Friday nite LITES.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 01:25 AM
Btw cutting and pasting from an iPhone is a real biatch and even finding that info in another thread was no fun.

Have a nice night. Pass the bud.

Missouribronc
01-26-2013, 07:21 AM
The simple fact is I used those number from sportrac several weeks ago for this info.


So while I may be of a bit on my numbers at the time I did this they were spot on.

As for Clady he may be worth 12 million a year as a franchise OLT. The question John has to ask is he to rich for our blood. considering we have IIRC 24 more UFA at the end if the 2013 season. Can we afford him and and sign those that need to be kept from that list that is posted above.

Thanks for your normal courteous reply. Just like the old days. Friday nite LITES.

I have a feeling you'll be surprised when the cap numbers come out after the start of the season next year, and when Clady is signed. And honestly, I don't think Elway and company will worry too much about "cap" when they sign Clady. He's that important.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 09:57 AM
I have a feeling you'll be surprised when the cap numbers come out after the start of the season next year, and when Clady is signed. And honestly, I don't think Elway and company will worry too much about "cap" when they sign Clady. He's that important.

I may be.. But then so might y'all.

If he was elite and all they would not have tried to lowball him last year.

Since he will be a UFA that means we have to be against all the bottom feeders as well as a few that just need that one guy to get to the next level.

Since John said he wanted build via the draft and knowing he has almost half the team (as we speak) needing to be replaced or resigned, he may just decide a not so elite (that is what Clady is) can be had for a third or less of his going rate.

If he was a complete OLT being able to run block as well as handle speed rushers, if our QB was not able to get rid of the ball fast as he does, then and only then he may feel the need to over pay for a less than elite OLT. IMO.

If he does then I'm ok with it.

Just know that getting a few more "frill UFA" may be out of the question.

Beantown Bronco
01-26-2013, 11:17 AM
If he was elite and all they would not have tried to lowball him last year.

Logic fail. They tried to lowball Champ a few years ago too and he was clearly elite.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 11:36 AM
Logic fail. They tried to lowball Champ a few years ago too and he was clearly elite.

Ah who tried to lowball champ.

Iirc it was a different regime.

Do you feel that Clady is a elite?

With his deficiency in run blocking.

Struggling with speed rushers.

I Always thought that just not giving up sack was just part of being a complete (read elite) OT. But hey that is just IMO.

Beantown Bronco
01-26-2013, 12:25 PM
Do you feel that Clady is a elite?


I can't name 5 left tackles I'd rather have than him, so yes, to answer your question, I do feel that he's elite. And so does pretty much everyone else in the world not named lonestar.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 03:00 PM
I can't name 5 left tackles I'd rather have than him, so yes, to answer your question, I do feel that he's elite. And so does pretty much everyone else in the world not named lonestar.

Let's see what John does. Then we will know for sure.

IMO he is not elite he is above average in pass blocking, but I doubt he would have been even that without Manning back there this year.

See that is the real test. How he does without manning.

In 11 he led the league in holding calls, and well the sack level was much higher.

So was it Tebow and Orton that sucked or just your elite OLT?

Those are the questions that John will be looking at as well as how do we afford him when we have 24 other UFA coming do next year.

Beantown Bronco
01-26-2013, 04:03 PM
IMO he is not elite he is above average in pass blocking, but I doubt he would have been even that without Manning back there this year.

See that is the real test. How he does without manning.

Are you really this idiotic?!? Was Clady a rookie this year?

Here's what he did BEFORE Manning:

Clady finished third in voting behind Matt Ryan and Chris Johnson for the 2008 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year Award. He was the only offensive lineman to receive any votes.

Clady started every game during the 2008 NFL season and gave up just a half of a sack while committing only three penalties. He was the only starting NFL offensive lineman to give up less than one sack for the entire season. He was named to the Associated Press NFL All-Pro Second Team behind Michael Roos and Jordan Gross.

As of May 2009, Sporting News lists Clady as the No. 1 offensive tackle in the NFL.

After the Broncos' October 4, 2009 victory over the Dallas Cowboys, Clady set a new NFL record for consecutive games to start a career without giving up a full sack. Through 20 games, he has surrendered only one half of a sack.

Clady was named a starter for the 2010 Pro Bowl and was named First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Associated Press after the 2009 season.

On April 28, 2010, Clady injured his patella tendon while playing basketball but did not miss a game the following season.

On January 17, 2012, Clady was added to the 2012 Pro Bowl roster along with teammate Willis McGahee.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 05:46 PM
Are you really this idiotic?!? Was Clady a rookie this year?

Here's what he did BEFORE Manning:

Clady finished third in voting behind Matt Ryan and Chris Johnson for the 2008 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year Award. He was the only offensive lineman to receive any votes.

Clady started every game during the 2008 NFL season and gave up just a half of a sack while committing only three penalties. He was the only starting NFL offensive lineman to give up less than one sack for the entire season. He was named to the Associated Press NFL All-Pro Second Team behind Michael Roos and Jordan Gross.

As of May 2009, Sporting News lists Clady as the No. 1 offensive tackle in the NFL.

After the Broncos' October 4, 2009 victory over the Dallas Cowboys, Clady set a new NFL record for consecutive games to start a career without giving up a full sack. Through 20 games, he has surrendered only one half of a sack.

Clady was named a starter for the 2010 Pro Bowl and was named First-team All-Pro by the Sporting News and Associated Press after the 2009 season.

On April 28, 2010, Clady injured his patella tendon while playing basketball but did not miss a game the following season.

On January 17, 2012, Clady was added to the 2012 Pro Bowl roster along with teammate Willis McGahee.


And yet Clady led the league in holding calls in 2011.

He had a great year in 12 allowing IIRC only one sack.

Even if you are not his cousin. I suspect if you are honest you WILL admit that he is not the same caliber OLT he was as rookie. Or the following year either. The knee is not the same as it was those years.

I also think that if you are honest you know that the pro bowl is a beauty contest and while many are there because they are great some folks get there on past reps.

and yet nine of this matters if we can not afford him. If other teams start the bidding process the specter of having more spots to actually fill this year and do not fool your self into thinking that players that were just signed (cheaply I might add) most of which will either be cut or PS players (which do not count against the cap) .. To the informed that means we have less than 18 mil to fill out this squad. 4-7 will be for rookies coming in and if John holds to his form all of which will make the team.

Add to that 24 players currently on this team are UFA after this coming season of which 5-10 will have to be resigned as they are core players. If they are not then their replacements are going to be almost as expensive.

John is going to have to make some hard decisions.


As great as your bromance is with Clady I'm not sure he will be one kept.

Heyneck
01-26-2013, 06:41 PM
And yet Clady led the league in holding calls in 2011.

He had a great year in 12 allowing IIRC only one sack.

Even if you are not his cousin. I suspect if you are honest you WILL admit that he is not the same caliber OLT he was as rookie. Or the following year either. The knee is not the same as it was those years.

I also think that if you are honest you know that the pro bowl is a beauty contest and while many are there because they are great some folks get there on past reps.

and yet nine of this matters if we can not afford him. If other teams start the bidding process the specter of having more spots to actually fill this year and do not fool your self into thinking that players that were just signed (cheaply I might add) most of which will either be cut or PS players (which do not count against the cap) .. To the informed that means we have less than 18 mil to fill out this squad. 4-7 will be for rookies coming in and if John holds to his form all of which will make the team.

Add to that 24 players currently on this team are UFA after this coming season of which 5-10 will have to be resigned as they are core players. If they are not then their replacements are going to be almost as expensive.

John is going to have to make some hard decisions.


As great as your bromance is with Clady I'm not sure he will be one kept.



Dude seriously still doubting Clady talent? Yeah Pro Bowl is a beauty contest, the the All-Pro designation is not. Get a clue. I am not a betting man but I am 100% sure he will be back with us next season. Sig bet?

Inkana7
01-26-2013, 06:54 PM
hey guys it's not worth having good players on the team because

DBroncos4life
01-26-2013, 07:07 PM
I'm curious to see lonestars opinion on how the Giants who are 9 million dollars OVER the cap with with MORE FAs the us and how the plan on fielding a team next season.

Bmore Manning
01-26-2013, 07:55 PM
I'm curious on who we replace him with... CJ Davis come on down!!!!

Maybe we take Albert from the Chiefs and send Clady packing.

If Lonestar said you know what guys, I would use that contract he's going to get, as well as cutting a few others..on pursuing Steven Jackson RB, Jarius Byrd FS, Brent Grimes CB, and Brandon Albert or even King Dunlap LT... Then I think people could respect you. But just saying "He's not worth it, he's not Elite" and not saying who will replace him, or if we have to draft a LT in round one, then who do we spend his money on to improve the team, comes off as Clady hatred.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 08:19 PM
I'm curious to see lonestars opinion on how the Giants who are 9 million dollars OVER the cap with with MORE FAs the us and how the plan on fielding a team next season.

Guessing they will have to cut a lot of salary..

since I do not follow them at all except for seeing/hearing about them on the NYC new casts.

Frankly I do not care, they are not my team..

broncosteven
01-26-2013, 08:27 PM
I'm curious on who we replace him with... CJ Davis come on down!!!!

Maybe we take Albert from the Chiefs and send Clady packing.

If Lonestar said you know what guys, I would use that contract he's going to get, as well as cutting a few others..on pursuing Steven Jackson RB, Jarius Byrd FS, Brent Grimes CB, and Brandon Albert or even King Dunlap LT... Then I think people could respect you. But just saying "He's not worth it, he's not Elite" and not saying who will replace him, or if we have to draft a LT in round one, then who do we spend his money on to improve the team, comes off as Clady hatred.

I don't see how Albert could be any cheaper than Clady, if he hits the market I bet Chicago is all over him.

Plus I don't think he is as good as Clady is. Didn't they come out the same year? Why not just pay the guy who knows your system and the rest of the OL and move on to the real issue, finding a MLB.

broncosteven
01-26-2013, 08:30 PM
Given how quick Manning gets rid of the football and the fact how offenses rarely do 7 step drop backs anymore, is Clady worth taking up all that cap space?

Look at the Baltimore game and how Doom got shut out b/c he was blatantly held on every play. This offense would still be deadly with a slightly above average LT.

You didn't watch the line play in the Balt game. Manning took deep drops and was forced to hold the ball for a long time because his WR's were covered. As it was our OL gave up a couple sacks (including a Strip Sack) late with the game on the line.

To think that anyone could go back there and hold up as long as Clady did is insane, you must be watching the ball and not the players.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 08:39 PM
I'm curious on who we replace him with... CJ Davis come on down!!!!

Maybe we take Albert from the Chiefs and send Clady packing.

If Lonestar said you know what guys, I would use that contract he's going to get, as well as cutting a few others..on pursuing Steven Jackson RB, Jarius Byrd FS, Brent Grimes CB, and Brandon Albert or even King Dunlap LT... Then I think people could respect you. But just saying "He's not worth it, he's not Elite" and not saying who will replace him, or if we have to draft a LT in round one, then who do we spend his money on to improve the team, comes off as Clady hatred.

do you realistically think Albert is going to be much cheaper?

IMO if they replace him it will be with another rookie or maybe but I really doubt it swap franklin over..

as for others coming in if he is not resigned why on earth would you want guys like jackson who has more miles on him that a 57 chevy..

I do not care if people respect me I'm not in the ohh please be my friend phase..

I post what I post to make y'all think past the end of your johnson..

as I have said numerous times most folks on here have never EVER done a budget much less live under one..

most folks live month to month and businesses can not do that.. they have to plan LONG term which means looking at what is happening next year when making decisions for this coming season..

Do we sign a bunch more one year contracts so they expire when the following come due for UFA..

Eric Decker 4 yr/$2,522,150 2013 2014
28. Zane Beadles 4 yr/$4,171,000 2013 2014
29. JD Walton 4 yr/$2,588,500 2013 2014
30. Jacob Hester 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
31. Manuel Ramirez 2 yr/$1,415,000 2013 2014
35. Robert Ayers 5 yr/$15,500,000 2013 2014
37. Knowshon Moreno 5 yr/$16,700,000 2013 2015
38. Wesley Woodyard 2 yr/$3,500,000 2013 2014

or do we try and lock them up this coming summer and use that cap space we HAVE to spend this year to get us up to the 89% of the value that CBA requires..

has anyone thought about that as an option?

do not everyone answer at once..

some of Y'all think I hate Clady I DO NOT, I just do not have an orgasm about him, nor do I believe he is elite.. Just because he has had some honors as pro bowl just means that some of the guys that should have been there declined.. and he is better than the next guy on the popular voting list is..

he is a good OLT he also has warts that many want to overlook, average at best run blocking and strugles with speed rushers..

BTW there are other OT that could be looked at other than rookies guys on other teams PS squad the past couple of years.. John has been pretty good about finding gems for our team there.

I'm not the bad guy, just because I want y'all to think about the long term instead of just tomorrow..

But if it makes you feel good hate me I could care less..

also IF JOHN decides Clady is worth the money then it is OK with me..

Bmore Manning
01-26-2013, 08:40 PM
I don't see how Albert could be any cheaper than Clady, if he hits the market I bet Chicago is all over him.

Plus I don't think he is as good as Clady is. Didn't they come out the same year? Why not just pay the guy who knows your system and the rest of the OL and move on to the real issue, finding a MLB.

Albert is not as good as Clady, I was more trying to show an example then be literal. He dances around the question of who to replace him with, and where to allocate those extra funds.

Bmore Manning
01-26-2013, 08:45 PM
Lonestar, all my free agent requests/off season plans are realistic. Stop grouping everyone into the same category. You take all examples to be so literal. Funny you knew nothing about how teams had to start hitting the cap limits, and now you apparently proposed that all along.

broncosteven
01-26-2013, 08:48 PM
Ah who tried to lowball champ.

Iirc it was a different regime.

Do you feel that Clady is a elite?

With his deficiency in run blocking.

Struggling with speed rushers.

I Always thought that just not giving up sack was just part of being a complete (read elite) OT. But hey that is just IMO.

I think when you down play Clady's run blocking your forgetting that Beadles is an above avg pulling guard. They run Right because their LG is pulling right. I remember watching them use Hillman in a game, maybe the last kFc game where Clady sealed the edge and Hillman got wide for a big gainer, Clady had no help on the play, he can do it and do it well.

It will be interesting to see what Gase does because McCoy was content with picking up 3-4 yards on 1st down with the back running behind a pulling Beadles. Willis is a little better than KM being patient with his blocks and following his lead blocker into the hole. The game he got hurt on he was on pace for a 150+ yard day just with simple power between the tackles.

I wonder if Gase doesn't try running more counters or the ISO pitch with Hillman after he has an offseason to grow into his body and gain a little more weight and muscle.

If you want to upgrade the run blocking we need a better C who can get to the 2nd level.

I really think Beadles is more valuable to the run game pulling which is why they run to the right so often. I don't think it is because Clady sucks as a run blocker.

If your going to grade a guy on his run blocking you have to take into account Beadles pulling the majority of the time and Clady having to man the hole Beadles leaves. If anything I would say they trust Clady more in the Blocking game because Beadles is pulling and leaving his man unblocked.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 10:52 PM
I think when you down play Clady's run blocking your forgetting that Beadles is an above avg pulling guard. They run Right because their LG is pulling right. I remember watching them use Hillman in a game, maybe the last kFc game where Clady sealed the edge and Hillman got wide for a big gainer, Clady had no help on the play, he can do it and do it well.

It will be interesting to see what Gase does because McCoy was content with picking up 3-4 yards on 1st down with the back running behind a pulling Beadles. Willis is a little better than KM being patient with his blocks and following his lead blocker into the hole. The game he got hurt on he was on pace for a 150+ yard day just with simple power between the tackles.

I wonder if Gase doesn't try running more counters or the ISO pitch with Hillman after he has an offseason to grow into his body and gain a little more weight and muscle.

If you want to upgrade the run blocking we need a better C who can get to the 2nd level.

I really think Beadles is more valuable to the run game pulling which is why they run to the right so often. I don't think it is because Clady sucks as a run blocker.

If your going to grade a guy on his run blocking you have to take into account Beadles pulling the majority of the time and Clady having to man the hole Beadles leaves. If anything I would say they trust Clady more in the Blocking game because Beadles is pulling and leaving his man unblocked.

Fwiw i did not just base my thoughts on Clady for his run blocking this year.
It has never been his forte.

Now have they run left in the past and they did well absolutely but his lack of consistently being able to do so along with Franklin being a road grader makes it easier to go that way..

BTW pulling and going right can be just as easy to go to the left.

They chose to go left for other reasons.

As for the center yes we need to get some more heft on Walton this coming year he was making great strides until he was hurt. I think this injury may be a blessing as he is able to spend loads of time in the weight room..

Now that said he will never be Pouncey. But that is ok also.

My biggest concern is will Kuper ever be back to his former self. Or are those ankles and lower legs damaged beyond being a NFL OG again.

I do know they had no reason to bring him back when he was obviously not ready and should have been pulled when they saw he was unable to handle the job during the game.

jutang
01-26-2013, 10:57 PM
You didn't watch the line play in the Balt game. Manning took deep drops and was forced to hold the ball for a long time because his WR's were covered. As it was our OL gave up a couple sacks (including a Strip Sack) late with the game on the line.

To think that anyone could go back there and hold up as long as Clady did is insane, you must be watching the ball and not the players.

Still too pissed off to watch the game again and I'm not doubting Clady's status as an elite tackle, but if you can switch out Clady for say a Lepsis quality tackle and upgrade another position like TE, RB, S, or MLB... the team may overall be stronger. Baltimore is a classic example this year. The Giants last year's LT, Diehl, I think changed positions this year. I'm just questioning the value of an elite LT in today's NFL.

lonestar
01-26-2013, 11:07 PM
I think when you down play Clady's run blocking your forgetting that Beadles is an above avg pulling guard. They run Right because their LG is pulling right. I remember watching them use Hillman in a game, maybe the last kFc game where Clady sealed the edge and Hillman got wide for a big gainer, Clady had no help on the play, he can do it and do it well.

It will be interesting to see what Gase does because McCoy was content with picking up 3-4 yards on 1st down with the back running behind a pulling Beadles. Willis is a little better than KM being patient with his blocks and following his lead blocker into the hole. The game he got hurt on he was on pace for a 150+ yard day just with simple power between the tackles.

I wonder if Gase doesn't try running more counters or the ISO pitch with Hillman after he has an offseason to grow into his body and gain a little more weight and muscle.

If you want to upgrade the run blocking we need a better C who can get to the 2nd level.

I really think Beadles is more valuable to the run game pulling which is why they run to the right so often. I don't think it is because Clady sucks as a run blocker.

If your going to grade a guy on his run blocking you have to take into account Beadles pulling the majority of the time and Clady having to man the hole Beadles leaves. If anything I would say they trust Clady more in the Blocking game because Beadles is pulling and leaving his man unblocked.

Fwiw i did not just base my thoughts on Clady for his run blocking this year.
It has never been his forte.

Now have they run left in the past and they did well absolutely but his lack of consistently being able to do so along with Franklin being a road grader makes it easier to go that way..

BTW pulling and going right can be just as easy to go to the left.

They chose to go left for other reasons.

As for the center yes we need to get some more heft on Walton this coming year he was making great strides until he was hurt. I think this injury may be a blessing as he is able to spend loads of time in the weight room..

Now that said he will never be Pouncey. But that is ok also.

My biggest concern is will Kuper ever be back to his former self. Or are those ankles and lower legs damaged beyond being a NFL OG again.

I do know they had no reason to bring him back when he was obviously not ready and should have been pulled when they saw he was unable to handle the job during the game.

Missouribronc
01-26-2013, 11:26 PM
It just amazes me that people complain about the best offensive lineman the team has.

It shouldn't surprise me. But it does.

lonestar
01-27-2013, 12:26 AM
It just amazes me that people complain about the best offensive lineman the team has.

It shouldn't surprise me. But it does.

Just because he is the best does not mean he can not be improved on or have the same quality for less money.

Amazes me that folks do not see that.

Missouribronc
01-27-2013, 09:46 PM
Just because he is the best does not mean he can not be improved on or have the same quality for less money.

Amazes me that folks do not see that.

He's one of the two best tackles in the NFL.

Explain how Clady could be "improved on?"

lonestar
01-27-2013, 09:51 PM
He's one of the two best tackles in the NFL.

Explain how Clady could be "improved on?"

Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

Missouribronc
01-27-2013, 09:55 PM
Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

Two tackles in the entire league are named First Team All-Pro.

One was Clady.

So...crap? Please explain.

Missouribronc
01-27-2013, 10:09 PM
Come on lonestar, explain how Clady could be named one of the best two tackles in the league.

I'm waiting.

DBroncos4life
01-27-2013, 10:10 PM
Two tackles in the entire league are named First Team All-Pro.

One was Clady.

So...crap? Please explain.
All the facts in the world will ever stop him from trolling the board man.

broncosteven
01-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Fwiw i did not just base my thoughts on Clady for his run blocking this year.
It has never been his forte.

Now have they run left in the past and they did well absolutely but his lack of consistently being able to do so along with Franklin being a road grader makes it easier to go that way..

BTW pulling and going right can be just as easy to go to the left.

They chose to go left for other reasons.

As for the center yes we need to get some more heft on Walton this coming year he was making great strides until he was hurt. I think this injury may be a blessing as he is able to spend loads of time in the weight room..

Now that said he will never be Pouncey. But that is ok also.

My biggest concern is will Kuper ever be back to his former self. Or are those ankles and lower legs damaged beyond being a NFL OG again.

I do know they had no reason to bring him back when he was obviously not ready and should have been pulled when they saw he was unable to handle the job during the game.

My point, which you obviously failed to comprehend, was that Beadles (who plays LEFT Guard) is the best pulling guard on the team. He even made it to the Pro Bowl today.

My point was the reason they ran right the majority of the time is because Beadles excels at pulling which means he crosses behind the Center (who is in the middle of the formation and is responsible for snapping the ball) and creates a hole/seam/kickout/seal block for the runner on the RIGHT side of the formation.

If they were going to pull a G to the right then Kuper would pull, he does, they do pull Kuper but this is something Beadles has excelled at and with Clady being able to make good choices covering for Beadles pull on the back side the staff feels more comfortable pulling to the right.

You do realize that when Beadles pulls his guy is unblocked and Clady has more to do than just man up on his guy right? If there seems to be a lot of penetration from the left side when Beadles is pulling it is because there is, the pull creates an unballanced line effect putting more guys on one side and attempting to get blockers to the 2nd level. The thinking is having a quick G leading is better than a FB because of the size matchups and having more blockers than defenders on one side of the field.

Shanny's system used to get more people on one side in the Zone because they would cut the back side defenders getting them on the ground with the tackles and enabling the guards and center to get to the 2nd level because the backside guy(s) were on the ground.

JUTANG:
This is why guys like Lepsis were able to be effective because they needed to be quicker and more agile and didn't need strength to get their guy out of the play, just technique. Shanny developed Lepsis over a couple years moving him from a TE to T, he was not a day 1 NFL tackle. The reason guys like Meyers and Polumbus are still in the NFL is because of the system they are in. They would struggle in a power run system.

Everyone loves the zone scheme between the 20's because there is space for the RB to cut back. As drives get closer to the goal line the cut back lanes get clogged with safeties and LB's who don't have to cover 10-20 or more yards deeper and are closer to the LOS. This is why people bitched about Shanny's red zone production after we lost a RB like TD who and exceptional vision, quickness and ability to cut.

You can't just let a top 5 LT walk and expect to run a power run game and protect Manning long enough for him to get the ball down field. If your advocating changing back to a west coast short passing game or quick dink and dunk game with a sub par run support then fine. I like our system now, I like that Manning is thinking deep 1st then down only when he has to. It is not like Manning has the speed to pull the ball down if the 1st option isn't there.

broncosteven
01-27-2013, 10:56 PM
Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

You realize that QB's should be stepping up into the pocket on their throws right? A good pocket will allow a QB to step up into the pocket. If your getting penetrating from the inside then the QB has to back up which causes him to throw off his back foot with no power, look at Cutler or Plummer for example.

If you watched the Balt game the strip sack came from the right side. Clady had his guy blocked and held up the block for the longest of any of the OL on that play. The other times there was pressure in that game it came from the right. I don't think Kuper was 100%, he did not have the best game of his career but Clady played a solid game.

You should actually go back and rewatch the games Clady played when he had NFL Caliber QB's. I think last year was a mix of injury and the fact that they could not set the pocket because they didn't know where Tebow was at any point after the snap. If your trying to come back from a tough injury to come back from then have to block for a QB who is pulling the ball down after seeing his 1st option covered then your going to expect to see him hold a lot.

How about you back up your opinion on Clady with some real evidence rather than just typing one sentence BS like: "his run blocking is below avg, he held alot in 2011 and he is not same as he was before his injury"?

Heyneck
01-27-2013, 11:00 PM
Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

Hours of practice on technique also have enabled Clady to become a more efficient run blocker.

"I think the area he's improved in is his run blocking," said Broncos coach John Fox. "It was something that we had seen as something he could improve at and he has."

Read more: Denver Broncos' Ryan Clady showing he's worth the big bucks - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21909966/denver-broncos-ryan-clady-showing-hes-worth-big#ixzz2JFNzgpMj
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2013/1/25/328d75aa-996a-4ee1-a1a7-5e7675cb7d77.gif

extralife
01-28-2013, 02:29 AM
If anyone hadn't stopped paying attention to lonestar before, the cue now is probably when someone says we run to the right because Beadles is an excellent puller and lonestar essentially responds by saying we should just pull beadles to the left. clearly we have a budding offensive line coach here.

broncosteven
01-28-2013, 10:04 PM
Did a new thread get made to discuss this further? This thread got quiet all of a sudden.

DBroncos4life
01-28-2013, 10:31 PM
Did a new thread get made to discuss this further? This thread got quiet all of a sudden.

We are one rookie/below average LT away from being a contender.

*WARHORSE*
01-28-2013, 11:35 PM
Does anyone really think Clady is playing anywhere but Denver next year with a franchise caliber QB under center?


Clady will be wearing his number here for a long time, or we will get a kings ransom in draft picks for him.

*WARHORSE*
01-29-2013, 12:38 AM
Does anyone really think Clady is playing anywhere but Denver next year?

Hes not.

He's gonna be right here under the franchise tag or a long term deal.

No way Elway doesnt lock up Clady to protect Peyton.



End of story.

extralife
01-29-2013, 12:53 AM
thanks for giving us two posts an hour apart on the same topic. forget your pills this morning?

Natedogg
01-29-2013, 08:31 AM
crapstar.