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View Full Version : Need a stud DT next to Wolfe..............


Jetmeck
01-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Quote sack numbers to me all you want.............

...............when the game is close we have no consistent pash rush.

Having a put it away pass rush when your up two scores is a good thing but we need consistency no matter the circumstance...........


The elite QBs in this leaque will step uo to avoid DEs and kill ya.


This should be high on our FA list..............

Course a safety that can cover would be nice as well...............:wave:

NFLBRONCO
01-21-2013, 08:23 PM
I think Denvers top 4 needs are DT MLB G DE 2nd tier needs Slot WR RB S

enjolras
01-21-2013, 08:30 PM
I think a MLB would do a lot to free up the interior rushers. We played incredibly conservative on the interior all season long. They were covering for the issues at middle linebacker by just stuffing up the middle. You didn't see many stunts or terribly complex movement up front.

We need to somehow turn up a strong middle linebacker at all costs. Trade the entire draft if you have to. Do whatever you have to do to find that guy. A superbowl literally depends on it.

Cosmo
01-21-2013, 08:53 PM
#1 MLB
#2 DT
#3 Slot WR
#4 RB

In order of priority.

Easy enough to Draft MLB in first round, Free agent DT & WR, draft RB 2nd round.

Houshyamama
01-21-2013, 09:19 PM
#1 - Interior OL
#2 - DT
#3 - SS
#4 - MLB
#5 - CB
#6 - Slot WR

go_broncos
01-21-2013, 09:30 PM
#1 Priority should be RB...We would have won the game if Moreno was healthy.
Manning and this offense need a RB that doesn't get injured.

swaiy
01-21-2013, 10:03 PM
#1 Priority should be RB...We would have won the game if Moreno was healthy.
Manning and this offense need a RB that doesn't get injured.

Guess they'll be drafting a bionic RB. Didnt see one that stuck out in this draft. Maybe the class of 3002 will be better.

Jetmeck
01-21-2013, 11:29 PM
#1 Priority should be RB...We would have won the game if Moreno was healthy.
Manning and this offense need a RB that doesn't get injured.


First off I agree FU refs............

However our rook did an admirable job and definitely did enough to keep Baltimore honest. Moreno would not have made that much difference cause he was getting stuffed regularly anyway.

Manning doesn't need much of a run game. He had a bad day like the rest of the team................


With our so called great pass rushing defense Flacco should have been on his ass everytime he tried to go deep...............

avangeline
01-22-2013, 12:39 AM
Really good thread!
http://www.booksstore.info/11k/bass.jpg
http://www.booksstore.info/jokelist/boa.jpg

socalorado
01-22-2013, 05:52 AM
A healthy Moreno would have made a HUGE difference.
Once he went down, there was absolutely NO BLITZ PICK UP by Ball, which when they tried for 1 play, was one of the most embarassing plays i've ever seen in Bronco history, and Hillman, as good as he ran, was useless as well, and just is not big enough to stop opposing blitzers.
Manning was completely handcuffed because of this, and suddenly the passing game disappeared.
DEN needs to draft a RB like Stephan Taylor (STAN) BAD.

socalorado
01-22-2013, 05:52 AM
Oh, and as for DTs its all about Kawan Short.
However i dont think DEN will go DT high.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 06:00 AM
#1 MLB
#2 DT
#3 Safety
#4 OG/C
#5 RB
#6 WR

I think you Draft the MLB, Safety, and a late round RB. Grab a FA DT, maybe Safety is you can get a good one (that isn't Mike Adams)

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 06:07 AM
So... we had the #1 pass rush in the league, but in the game our secondary gets torched and we get no pressure, the assumption is that it must be a pass rush deficiency instead of the ****ing coverage?

This isn't your fault Jetmeck, I'm sick of so many people coming to these wrong side of the chicken-egg conclusions: You guys are seriously retarded...

TonyR
01-22-2013, 06:21 AM
So... we had the #1 pass rush in the league, but in the game our secondary gets torched and we get no pressure, the assumption is that it must be a pass rush deficiency instead of the ****ing coverage?

Right, the secondary got "torched" in large part because there was no pressure on Flacco. Can't give a good QB a clean pocket and all day to throw like that. Go back and compare/contrast to the regular season game where we actually bothered Flacco a little bit. No, the coverage wasn't good, but would have looked a hell of a lot better with some help from the front 7. But you already know all this, or should, so I'm not sure what the argument is.

CEH
01-22-2013, 06:22 AM
We got torched one time , one great catch set up by a failed FG that was butt ugly with no chance in hell of coming close, and one Hail Mary where Miller almost got to Flacco with a 3 man rush

The magnitude of the game will get you fired but the stats say Baltimore did not come in here and imposed their will.

In the end the Defense gave the ball to the Offense 3 times to win the game

I wouldn't call 220 yards (before the hail mary) by Joe Flacco some sort of awesome game.

This team was/is built this year to play with the lead and that's how the season went.

If I could pick one player if would be a big time guard and or RB to close out the games and continues to add young fast playmakers on defense

That's JMO

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 06:30 AM
Right, the secondary got "torched" in large part because there was no pressure on Flacco. Can't give a good QB a clean pocket and all day to throw like that. Go back and compare/contrast to the regular season game where we actually bothered Flacco a little bit. No, the coverage wasn't good, but would have looked a hell of a lot better with some help from the front 7. But you already know all this, or should, so I'm not sure what the argument is.

You want some pressure? You want to put the QB on the ground?

Cover the open ****ing man for 3+ seconds. Playoff QBs will find the open man... there's your disparity.

In the 6 games played against teams with winning records, Denver sacked the QB 2.5x per game (5 of which coming against one opponent, drastically raising the ave).

In the other games, 3.8x per game.

Hmmm... what could possibly be causing this disparity...

Btw, also against winning teams: 13TDs to 3INTs by opposing QBs. Over 60% completion and roughly 80 ypg to TEs.

Get this "OMG WE OBVI NEED A PASSRUSHER!" bull**** out of here/

baja
01-22-2013, 06:38 AM
So... we had the #1 pass rush in the league, but in the game our secondary gets torched and we get no pressure, the assumption is that it must be a pass rush deficiency instead of the ****ing coverage?

This isn't your fault Jetmeck, I'm sick of so many people coming to these wrong side of the chicken-egg conclusions: You guys are seriously retarded...

Do you spit on yourself when you talk?

2KBack
01-22-2013, 06:41 AM
Right, the secondary got "torched" in large part because there was no pressure on Flacco. Can't give a good QB a clean pocket and all day to throw like that. Go back and compare/contrast to the regular season game where we actually bothered Flacco a little bit. No, the coverage wasn't good, but would have looked a hell of a lot better with some help from the front 7. But you already know all this, or should, so I'm not sure what the argument is.

My observation was that Flacco was releasing the ball quite early....even on the deep shots. Baltimore knew we would be leaving the DB's on an island depending on the pass rush and trusted their guys to beat ours deep....and they did. They gameplanned for the pass rush and beat it. Slightly better secondary play and likely none of the bombs are complete and gmae looks much different. It;'s not like Flacco was sitting in the pocket picking us a apart. He was heaving homeruns right ahead of the rush....and hitting them.

g6matty
01-22-2013, 06:42 AM
http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/files/2012/11/OgletreeSanderlin.JPG

im gonna ride this bandwagon till the wheels fall off. we cant cover tight ends ever. they kill us when we play the good teams . if we draft ogletree the converted safety what ever he lacks in run stuffing he will make up for in pass coverage. this pick makes too much sense all the dum asses who wants a thumper MLB in minter WE DONT NEED A THUMPER WE WERE TOP 5 IN RUN DEFENSE we suck at COVERING TIGHT ENDS . who can cover tight ends OGLETREE

MagicHef
01-22-2013, 06:42 AM
Miller dropped into coverage 12 times. I'd rather keep that number much, much lower. We would need more than one LB that can be trusted in coverage for that to happen, though.

TonyR
01-22-2013, 06:44 AM
Over 60% completion and roughly 80 ypg to TEs.

I agree this was/is a huge problem for us. I just think the biggest difference this time vs. last time against the Ravens is that we didn't get any pressure on Flacco.

Also, this according to TJ Johnson at IAOFM:

In the rematch last Saturday, the Ravens ran the ball three out of their first five plays until they realized they were running into an eight-man box, not a seven-man box as in their first meeting. Essentially, Del Rio changed his defensive look between the two contests. Instead of playing Cover 2, Man Under like he had previously, he switched to a Cover 1, which brings the strong safety into the box and leaves the free safety as the only deep defender in coverage. http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/a-second-helping-of-torrey-smiths-59-yard-touchdown-catch

Ray Finkle
01-22-2013, 06:45 AM
You want some pressure? You want to put the QB on the ground?

Cover the open ****ing man for 3+ seconds. Playoff QBs will find the open man... there's your disparity.

In the 6 games played against teams with winning records, Denver sacked the QB 2.5x per game (5 of which coming against one opponent, drastically raising the ave).

In the other games, 3.8x per game.

Hmmm... what could possibly be causing this disparity...

Btw, also against winning teams: 13TDs to 3INTs by opposing QBs. Over 60% completion and roughly 80 ypg to TEs.

Get this "OMG WE OBVI NEED A PASSRUSHER!" bull**** out of here/

I read the last line and thought of this image....

Bmore Manning
01-22-2013, 06:46 AM
Rev what your saying may be true, there was a total lapse in coverage, but that doesn't take away the fact that we need a more disruptive interior player.. QBs stepped up into the pocket all season. If they could no longer do that, we would probably approach 70 sacks.

My favorite player who is scheme flexible, can two gap and still be incredibly disruptive is Brandon Williams Missouri Southern, and he's right in our ball park as a third round pick..

Ray Finkle
01-22-2013, 06:48 AM
replacing Adams with a safety that could cover would help more.....Denver is in more need of a run stuff DT than pass rushing one.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 06:48 AM
all the dum asses

Irony.

Minter isn't just a thumper, he is an all-around LB, as is Teo, and neither would be the liability that ogletree would be in the run game. It's like making Ian Gold play MLB.

Bigdawg26
01-22-2013, 06:49 AM
http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/files/2012/11/OgletreeSanderlin.JPG

im gonna ride this bandwagon till the wheels fall off. we cant cover tight ends ever. they kill us when we play the good teams . if we draft ogletree the converted safety what ever he lacks in run stuffing he will make up for in pass coverage. this pick makes too much sense all the dum asses who wants a thumper MLB in minter WE DONT NEED A THUMPER WE WERE TOP 5 IN RUN DEFENSE we suck at COVERING TIGHT ENDS . who can cover tight ends OGLETREE

One of the most overrated defensive players in the draft. He's got size and speed, but he can't tackle and can't shed blocks well (like DJ Williams was when he was playing MLB). I dunno if he and the rest of the UGA defenders were mainly interested in going their stats up or what but that whole defense sucked as a unit. Besides your MLB doesn't need to cover a linebacker your Outside backers do. I would much rather Minter who could come up and stuff the run as oppose to him. But given all that I would much rather see us get a safety that can cause turnovers or change the game with our first pick. Either by intercepting the ball like an Ed Reed or Earl Thomas or by knocking a defender out like an Gholston or Pollard.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 06:55 AM
replacing Adams with a safety that could cover would help more.....Denver is in more need of a run stuff DT than pass rushing one.

The middle of the field was such a vortex of disaster I am so shocked the defense did as well as it did. Mike Adams, was getting schooled all year and we had a collection of 2 down MLB's. Even the slightest upgrade in both positions would have a dramatic affect.

bronco militia
01-22-2013, 06:58 AM
The middle of the field was such a vortex of disaster I am so shocked the defense did as well as it did. Mike Adams, was getting schooled all year and we had a collection of 2 down MLB's. Even the slightest upgrade in both positions would have a dramatic affect.

yeah, that's where I would start.and then interior OL.

BroncoBeavis
01-22-2013, 06:58 AM
A healthy Moreno would have made a HUGE difference.
Once he went down, there was absolutely NO BLITZ PICK UP by Ball, which when they tried for 1 play, was one of the most embarassing plays i've ever seen in Bronco history, and Hillman, as good as he ran, was useless as well, and just is not big enough to stop opposing blitzers.
Manning was completely handcuffed because of this, and suddenly the passing game disappeared.
DEN needs to draft a RB like Stephan Taylor (STAN) BAD.

Yeah, a stout young pair of legs is a top-2 priority for me (next to MLB) We can't count on KM or Willis to make it through a game at this point. Who knows how Willis will look next year anyway. We don't have time to mess around with another 30 year old free agent.

g6matty
01-22-2013, 07:00 AM
One of the most overrated defensive players in the draft. He's got size and speed, but he can't tackle and can't shed blocks well (like DJ Williams was when he was playing MLB). I dunno if he and the rest of the UGA defenders were mainly interested in going their stats up or what but that whole defense sucked as a unit. Besides your MLB doesn't need to cover a linebacker your Outside backers do. I would much rather Minter who could come up and stuff the run as oppose to him. But given all that I would much rather see us get a safety that can cause turnovers or change the game with our first pick. Either by intercepting the ball like an Ed Reed or Earl Thomas or by knocking a defender out like an Gholston or Pollard.

yea dude glad nfl execs agree with you


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g6matty
01-22-2013, 07:04 AM
its funny that MLB dont need to cover yet the two teams in the super bowls MLB's handle the responsibilities of covering tight ends. ray lewis navaro bowman and p willy lmao gtfo

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 07:10 AM
Rev what your saying may be true, there was a total lapse in coverage, but that doesn't take away the fact that we need a more disruptive interior player.. QBs stepped up into the pocket all season. If they could no longer do that, we would probably approach 70 sacks.

My favorite player who is scheme flexible, can two gap and still be incredibly disruptive is Brandon Williams Missouri Southern, and he's right in our ball park as a third round pick..

The **** they did.

Bmore Manning
01-22-2013, 07:10 AM
its funny that MLB dont need to cover yet the two teams in the super bowls MLB's handle the responsibilities of covering tight ends. ray lewis navaro bowman and p willy lmao gtfo

They run a true 3-4.. Different LB responsibilities..Cincys gonna take Ogaltree to play OLB..you watch.

Bmore Manning
01-22-2013, 07:12 AM
The **** they did.

You can't be serious to think QBs didn't step up into the pocket against us. Where else did they go?

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 07:12 AM
its funny that MLB dont need to cover yet the two teams in the super bowls MLB's handle the responsibilities of covering tight ends. ray lewis navaro bowman and p willy lmao gtfo

Whosaid that?

g6matty
01-22-2013, 07:14 AM
They run a true 3-4.. Different LB responsibilities..Cincys gonna take Ogaltree to play OLB..you watch.

idk man i just think this guy has the wow factor that doesnt come around at MLB often .

g6matty
01-22-2013, 07:15 AM
Whosaid that?

see post #26

2KBack
01-22-2013, 07:16 AM
yea dude glad nfl execs agree with you


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Ever hear of something called the Fallacious appeal to authority?

g6matty
01-22-2013, 07:19 AM
Ever hear of something called the Fallacious appeal to authority?

no but i just googled it and i mean we can argue back and forth but the fact is that these guys get paid to scout and make opinions on the future stars of the league and they think said ogletree is one of those guys

Bmore Manning
01-22-2013, 07:20 AM
idk man i just think this guy has the wow factor that doesnt come around at MLB often .

Are you advocating we trade up for him? I doubt he's there @28. Again I had read that Cincy was interested in drafting him to play OLB. And they would move Burfict to MLB, and not retain the services of Ray M.

DENVERDUI55
01-22-2013, 07:20 AM
Denver needs both DT and secondary. Front 7 is more important than secondary but the S play in Denver needs to be addressed for sure.

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 07:21 AM
One of the most overrated defensive players in the draft. He's got size and speed, but he can't tackle and can't shed blocks well (like DJ Williams was when he was playing MLB). I dunno if he and the rest of the UGA defenders were mainly interested in going their stats up or what but that whole defense sucked as a unit. Besides your MLB doesn't need to cover a linebacker your Outside backers do. I would much rather Minter who could come up and stuff the run as oppose to him. But given all that I would much rather see us get a safety that can cause turnovers or change the game with our first pick. Either by intercepting the ball like an Ed Reed or Earl Thomas or by knocking a defender out like an Gholston or Pollard.

One of our linebackers is essentially a DE, so no. Another coverage LB is glaringly our biggest need.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 07:29 AM
no but i just googled it and i mean we can argue back and forth but the fact is that these guys get paid to scout and make opinions on the future stars of the league and they think said ogletree is one of those guys

it means that an "expert opinion" is a fallacious argument if there is no consensus among these "experts," or in what defines an "expert" or "Authority."

That's why you rarely see someone say: "Person A thinks like me, therefor I am right."

You like Ogletree, that's fine, defend that with your opinion and observations, not someone elses.

g6matty
01-22-2013, 07:41 AM
it means that an "expert opinion" is a fallacious argument if there is no consensus among these "experts," or in what defines an "expert" or "Authority."

That's why you rarely see someone say: "Person A thinks like me, therefor I am right."

You like Ogletree, that's fine, defend that with your opinion and observations, not someone elses.

we have packages where we bring in a 3rd safety because our linebackers are so putrid in coverage i dont see how this guy isnt an easy solution for our team. i cant fathom how we can get by with guys like brooking and mays at MLB and go top 5 in run defense, but complain a young stud cant step in and do just as good if not better job while increasing the pass defense drastically.

and to answer bmore's question about trading up. idk i think we will have to when its all said and done with the combine he should destroy

Rascal
01-22-2013, 07:47 AM
MLB or DT main priority in draft. Assuming Champ moves to safety in 2014 with Rahim Moore at the other safety spot.

CB, OG/C, WR, RB other areas to address in FA/draft.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 07:56 AM
we have packages where we bring in a 3rd safety because our linebackers are so putrid in coverage i dont see how this guy isnt an easy solution for our team. i cant fathom how we can get by with guys like brooking and mays at MLB and go top 5 in run defense, but complain a young stud cant step in and do just as good if not better job while increasing the pass defense drastically.

and to answer bmore's question about trading up. idk i think we will have to when its all said and done with the combine he should destroy

You aren;t following though. We were top 5 in run defense partially due to scheme and partially due to the fact that the MLB's we do have are stout against the run. Their liability is in coverage. Ogletree may improve the coverage part, but then creates a new weakness against the run. That is why so many of us are advocating Minter (or Teo). Ogletree hasn't proven to be any better in coverage than those two, but he is less stout against the run.

you see what I'm saying? We can improve the pass defense, while still having a good run defense with Minter, but would potentially sacrifice the run defense to improve the Pass defense with Ogletree (unless he puts on some weight and gets stronger).

pricejj
01-22-2013, 08:19 AM
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/804488/thumbs/s-DJ-WILLIAMS-large.jpg

It's all about Dyme Lyfe...and you know this.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMBqMOi_-zI3Jxpo3LtyCmR3lcAZDACpKm87Oib7C69hGOIiRm-WFk7guy

You arguing with Champ M*********in Bailey? Didn't think so...so dead all the MLB talk.

Kaylore
01-22-2013, 08:22 AM
A lot of you guys in this thread are trying to fix that game or even that one play at the end of regulation by thinking some free agent or draft pick would have changed things like it's going to happen that way again.

Here's the reality. We led the league in sacks, and while Miller's production had a lot to do with it, the reality is many of our games he'd get one or two and everyone else got the other four, five or six sacks spread out.

Pass rush isn't a problem. We need more strength at the POA inside and better speed at linebacker, particularly in the middle and some help in the secondary. I will concede that the OP suggests the safeties could use some upgrading.

However basing what this team needs on one game where we played bad all over is just more emotional reaction to the loss and not based on reality.

Tombstone RJ
01-22-2013, 08:26 AM
I'd have no problem if the Broncos got the best CB possible with the #28 pick and then worked on an interior DL in the second or a MLB in the second. If you look at the mock drafts they are all over the place. Minter is sometimes gone in the first round and in other mocks he's not gone until the 3rd round. A guy like Short is sometimes taken in the 2nd round, sometimes in the 3rd round, etc.

Until the combine comes and goes, it's all guess work. My personal opinion is just get the BPA whether that be a CB, Oline, DT, MLB, RB, whatever. Just make the pick count.

Beantown Bronco
01-22-2013, 08:27 AM
However basing what this team needs on one game where we played bad all over is just more emotional reaction to the loss and not based on reality.

This. It's happening here as well over the Pats. People saying they need to blow the whole thing up when they were a few crappy drives away from appearing in yet another SB.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 08:36 AM
A lot of you guys in this thread are trying to fix that game or even that one play at the end of regulation by thinking some free agent or draft pick would have changed things like it's going to happen that way again.

Here's the reality. We led the league in sacks, and while Miller's production had a lot to do with it, the reality is many of our games he'd get one or two and everyone else got the other four, five or six sacks spread out.

Pass rush isn't a problem. We need more strength at the POA inside and better speed at linebacker, particularly in the middle and some help in the secondary. I will concede that the OP suggests the safeties could use some upgrading.

However basing what this team needs on one game where we played bad all over is just more emotional reaction to the loss and not based on reality.

While I agree, there are weaknesses or lack of depth on this team that were apparent the entire season. Safety and MLB specifically were a constant shuffle. We can't rely on Jim Leonard, Mike Adams and Keith Brooking going forward and there is great opportunity to upgrade their positions.

Mediator12
01-22-2013, 08:41 AM
This. It's happening here as well over the Pats. People saying they need to blow the whole thing up when they were a few crappy drives away from appearing in yet another SB.

Absolutely! I liked the scheme and the performance of the defense this year, but the 2 most needed postions are MLB and S and then DT. DT is not a playmaking position in this scheme like the one gap attacking schemes who need an elite 3 tech to draw Double teams. The DT's are role players and the Edge rushers are the playmakers. The Scheme funnels inside out so the outside players are available to make plays.

The problem is really on the back end not being able to hold up downfield if the pass rush is not right there immediately. There is NO WAY the secondary should get beat deep rushing 4. All of the deep balls in the playoff game were rush 4 or less. No way you let those WR's get behind you having 7 to cover. Bad coaching and even worse execution.

Kaylore
01-22-2013, 08:42 AM
While I agree, there are weaknesses or lack of depth on this team that were apparent the entire season. Safety and MLB specifically were a constant shuffle. We can't rely on Jim Leonard, Mike Adams and Keith Brooking going forward and there is great opportunity to upgrade their positions.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't get better. I'm saying floating ideas based on what went wrong last game is stupid. For example "We couldn't get any pressure on Flacco therefore we need a pass rushing DT." That's stupid.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 08:48 AM
I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't get better. I'm saying floating ideas based on what went wrong last game is stupid. For example "We couldn't get any pressure on Flacco therefore we need a pass rushing DT." That's stupid.

Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 08:54 AM
Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.

Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 08:55 AM
Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.

Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.

MagicHef
01-22-2013, 09:05 AM
A pass rushing DT would necessitate more rotation of the DL on a down by down basis. That would be negated entirely by a hurryup offense.

Bigdawg26
01-22-2013, 09:24 AM
yea dude glad nfl execs agree with you


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As if an NFL exec's opinion has never been wrong? From what I'm seen from him by watching alot of UGA games is that he isn't a real factor and is just a guy that has great size and speed. Now, I'm not saying that I know more than even a decent NFL scout, but it's just what I saw.

broncosteven
01-22-2013, 09:40 AM
You want some pressure? You want to put the QB on the ground?

Cover the open ****ing man for 3+ seconds. Playoff QBs will find the open man... there's your disparity.

In the 6 games played against teams with winning records, Denver sacked the QB 2.5x per game (5 of which coming against one opponent, drastically raising the ave).

In the other games, 3.8x per game.

Hmmm... what could possibly be causing this disparity...

Btw, also against winning teams: 13TDs to 3INTs by opposing QBs. Over 60% completion and roughly 80 ypg to TEs.

Get this "OMG WE OBVI NEED A PASSRUSHER!" bull**** out of here/

IDK I think it is a chicken or egg type conundrum, I think it was pressure that got in Manning's and Brady's head. Ravens covered well in both games and the inital coverage allowed the pressure to get hits on them or lead to sacks.

I think expecting more than 3 seconds of coverage is a bit much, after that you need guys who can impact the pocket and force the QB out of his rhythm and get hits and or sacks.

With our DT's now FA's no reason we can't upgrade most of them, go hard after Melton as our big FA. Then draft a presence at MLB who can cover and rush.

As long as we upgrade either a DT or MLB I will be happy. We have lived this long without above avg DT's, why stop now? Hell I would be happy if we passed on Melton (hoping Wolfe turns in to him down the road) and got a hulking wide body later in the draft who can command 2 blockers and free up Wolfe/Miller/Doom to rush. I just don't want more of the same.

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 09:41 AM
Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.

Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.

broncosteven
01-22-2013, 09:53 AM
Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.

Doesn't Wolfe move around to DE once in a great while? Didn't they use him there a few times over the year?

Ayers is still not a great Pass rusher, keep him off the field, slide Wolfe over to end and fit a Melton in Wolf's spot.

I am on the fence about DT, I think MLB is more of a priorty now, I will likely flip flop on it all off season. It is just so hard to not go after a guy who is realatively young with the skill set of Melton who is available for the highest bidder. I would be fine with a big old mouth breather in the 330lb range who can clog the middle on early downs and force stuff outside like Med said. If we do that and Pass on Melton we better hit on a great MLB.

Lestat
01-22-2013, 09:56 AM
I think Denvers top 4 needs are DT MLB G DE 2nd tier needs Slot WR RB S

switch MLB with DT and i agree. but the depth at DT is better than MLB in terms of where it drops off from the best to the lower tier.

if we took Floyd from Florida in the first round i'd be happy.
flexible DT who can play all over the DL like Wolfe. gets in the backfield and gets TFL and has experience at DE if we wanna use him as a flexible every down lineman to confuse the offense.

Bigdawg26
01-22-2013, 09:58 AM
I'm ok with Big Vick and Wolfe starting at DT and Ayers and Doom starting at DE's (with Doom, Von, Ayers, and Wolfe on passing downs). I wouldn't mind bringing in another big DT and pass rusher DE for depth but it's not a big need. I would say we need an actual MLB and a Play making safety to improve our D. Brookings can't do it for another year and like I said in my previous post we need a game changer at safety. I would like to see those with the first two picks.

TheReverend
01-22-2013, 10:09 AM
Doesn't Wolfe move around to DE once in a great while? Didn't they use him there a few times over the year?

More often than not. He plays DE in the base lineup.

Ayers is still not a great Pass rusher, keep him off the field, slide Wolfe over to end and fit a Melton in Wolf's spot.

I am on the fence about DT, I think MLB is more of a priorty now, I will likely flip flop on it all off season. It is just so hard to not go after a guy who is realatively young with the skill set of Melton who is available for the highest bidder. I would be fine with a big old mouth breather in the 330lb range who can clog the middle on early downs and force stuff outside like Med said. If we do that and Pass on Melton we better hit on a great MLB.

Hey now, I STARTED the Melton bandwagon.

Rascal
01-22-2013, 10:10 AM
Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

At DT.

Lestat
01-22-2013, 10:11 AM
I'm ok with Big Vick and Wolfe starting at DT and Ayers and Doom starting at DE's (with Doom, Von, Ayers, and Wolfe on passing downs). I wouldn't mind bringing in another big DT and pass rusher DE for depth but it's not a big need. I would say we need an actual MLB and a Play making safety to improve our D. Brookings can't do it for another year and like I said in my previous post we need a game changer at safety. I would like to see those with the first two picks.

we can't get a consistent pass rush in key situations outside of Von and the Ravens figured out how to stop that for the most part.
we have to get a upgrade at DT who can force double teams and free up the LB's and and DE's.

we definitely need a stud MLB too. but the DT is critical. every MLB will tell you that the key for them is the DT's allowing them to be free and read the play.

Bmore Manning
01-22-2013, 10:33 AM
In our scheme we need a two gapper who can hold the point of attack as well as be a disruptive force.. Brandon Williams in the draft, if we address it with a player in Free Agency, someone like Knighton or Sims. Big bodied DTs, stout verse the run, but can be disruptive in the pocket.

Jetmeck
01-22-2013, 11:35 AM
So... we had the #1 pass rush in the league, but in the game our secondary gets torched and we get no pressure, the assumption is that it must be a pass rush deficiency instead of the ****ing coverage?

This isn't your fault Jetmeck, I'm sick of so many people coming to these wrong side of the chicken-egg conclusions: You guys are seriously retarded...


I am sorry as well cause you need to accept the reality that a lot of those sacks came when we were up two scores against bad teams.

Take a look at playoff caliber tams and count the sacks, I dare ya.


Stupid is being unwilling to take off the homer glasses.

Jetmeck
01-22-2013, 11:36 AM
we can't get a consistent pass rush in key situations outside of Von and the Ravens figured out how to stop that for the most part.
we have to get a upgrade at DT who can force double teams and free up the LB's and and DE's.

we definitely need a stud MLB too. but the DT is critical. every MLB will tell you that the key for them is the DT's allowing them to be free and read the play.


Yes, sir

Jetmeck
01-22-2013, 11:39 AM
I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't get better. I'm saying floating ideas based on what went wrong last game is stupid. For example "We couldn't get any pressure on Flacco therefore we need a pass rushing DT." That's stupid.

As I have said take off the your homer glasses....our pass rush made its numbers aginst low quality non playoff caliber teams.

Say what you will being a homer and not admitting to the truth ?

What would you call that ?

Jetmeck
01-22-2013, 11:41 AM
Heh you hard headed homers................where does a QB like Manning or Brady go when you have good edge rushing coming at them ?

They step up every time.

Wake up....we need a consistent pressure, not once in awhile when your up two scores.

2KBack
01-22-2013, 11:42 AM
I am sorry as well cause you need to accept the reality that a lot of those sacks came when we were up two scores against bad teams.

Take a look at playoff caliber tams and count the sacks, I dare ya.


Stupid is being unwilling to take off the homer glasses.

So you are saying we had more sacks in our 13 wins than our 4 losses? Genius!

BroncosfanGuy
01-22-2013, 11:45 AM
imo: need a Mike LB before anything else on O or on D. That was probably need #1 or 2 last year as well.

Requiem
01-22-2013, 11:49 AM
If Denver took a ILB, S, DT and DE in the draft I would be stoked. Add in a WR/RB/OL and cake.

Kaylore
01-22-2013, 12:04 PM
As I have said take off the your homer glasses....our pass rush made its numbers aginst low quality non playoff caliber teams.

Say what you will being a homer and not admitting to the truth ?

What would you call that ?

I'd................call that...........a..........lot........of......perio ds............

I'd also argue we put up a lot of sacks against four of the top five best teams at not allowing sacks.

There are a lot of needs on this team. Interior pressure isn't one of them.

Requiem
01-22-2013, 12:18 PM
hey kaylore........

when. . . . do you..... think.... we. should. have our council of chris valentines day party....

.....
...



.

....


....

.....

draft kiddies.

Kaylore
01-22-2013, 12:19 PM
hey kaylore........

when. . . . do you..... think.... we. should. have our council of chris valentines day party....

.....
...



.

....


....

.....

draft kiddies.

...................... .............. ........... .................. ...............
.......... .............. ........... .... ... ................. ..................
.................................................. ................
.......................................

.

......................

Requiem
01-22-2013, 12:27 PM
We are fluent in braile.

BroncoBeavis
01-22-2013, 01:00 PM
imo: need a Mike LB before anything else on O or on D. That was probably need #1 or 2 last year as well.

Hopefully they learned last year that just because you pay someone like a top 10 MLB, doesn't suddenly make him a top 10 MLB.

broncosteven
01-22-2013, 01:48 PM
hey kaylore........

when. . . . do you..... think.... we. should. have our council of chris valentines day party....

.....
...



.

....


....

.....

draft kiddies.

Is..............this...suddenly................... .................................................. .................................................. .........................................a........ ..thread.............about........................ .................................................. ......................Harold..........Pinter?

Jetmeck
01-22-2013, 03:07 PM
So you are saying we had more sacks in our 13 wins than our 4 losses? Genius!


I am saying you are a smartass and a dumbass at the same time.

You know exactly what I meant..........

Jetmeck
01-22-2013, 03:08 PM
...................... .............. ........... .................. ...............
.......... .............. ........... .... ... ................. ..................
.................................................. ................
.......................................

.

......................


One of your best posts ever ..........................

broncowill
01-22-2013, 09:34 PM
Just out of curiosity, where do all of you go to scout draft prospects? Do you all just Youtube all of the prospects or is there another website to go to?

CEH
01-23-2013, 04:54 AM
I agree this was/is a huge problem for us. I just think the biggest difference this time vs. last time against the Ravens is that we didn't get any pressure on Flacco.

Also, this according to TJ Johnson at IAOFM:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/a-second-helping-of-torrey-smiths-59-yard-touchdown-catch

Let's just pray it was Bailey who screwed up and was beaten because if he was expecting inside help it was Moore who screwed up again

g6matty
01-23-2013, 06:33 AM
i think we need to draft for a defensive dynasty and just add stop gaps on offense to play with manning ....

Bigdawg26
01-23-2013, 09:35 AM
we can't get a consistent pass rush in key situations outside of Von and the Ravens figured out how to stop that for the most part.
we have to get a upgrade at DT who can force double teams and free up the LB's and and DE's.

we definitely need a stud MLB too. but the DT is critical. every MLB will tell you that the key for them is the DT's allowing them to be free and read the play.

Doom did have 11 sacks this year! I'm not saying we don't need another pass rusher because we can always use another. I'm just saying its not as much of a need as a MLB and S (which I would like to spend my first two round picks on). I think Eric Reid would be an awesome pick for this defense. He's kinda like a Laron Landry with range. I wouldn't mind getting a 3th-5th round pass rush specialist or run stuffing DT for depth.

Arkie
01-23-2013, 10:03 AM
I'm sure this was already mentioned. Del Rio used to have two DT studs aka Hurricane Henderstroud.

cutthemdown
01-23-2013, 10:25 AM
there aren't a lot of big time MLB in the draft this yr, or in FA. I would forget about getting a stud Mlb for right now.

MagicHef
01-23-2013, 10:41 AM
I'm sure this was already mentioned. Del Rio used to have two DT studs aka Hurricane Henderstroud.

He didn't acquire either, they were both on the team when he became HC.

ZONA
01-23-2013, 10:59 AM
We got torched one time , one great catch set up by a failed FG that was butt ugly with no chance in hell of coming close, and one Hail Mary where Miller almost got to Flacco with a 3 man rush

That's JMO

Dice it up how you feel fit but the fact is, Flacco beat us deep on 3 TD passes and just missed hitting another big 50 yard TD pass, which would have given him 4 long passes on the day for TD's. Now you can say we got beat once and then gave up a hail mary, which it wasn't but Moore's bad timing sorta made it look that way, you can call it anything you want dude but we got beat like a drum in the secondary that day so don't try to fluff it up and say we didn't.

TonyR
01-23-2013, 11:06 AM
Let's just pray it was Bailey who screwed up and was beaten because if he was expecting inside help it was Moore who screwed up again

Speaking of Champ...

During the regular season Champ Bailey allowed just 29.9 yards per game and one touchdown all season. In his playoff game, he allowed 128 yards and two touchdowns. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/23/32-observations-pro-bowl/

Tombstone RJ
01-23-2013, 11:14 AM
Speaking of Champ...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/23/32-observations-pro-bowl/

Everybody has a bad game. Unfortunately for the Broncos, it appeared that outside of Holliday, all the best players were struggling. Kuper, Manning, Bailey, Miller, etc. That being said, with the #28 pick I'd have no problem whatsoever if the Broncos got the best CB available.

I still am not ready to give up on Rahim Moore. The Broncos took him with the idea that his stength was coverage. Yep, he screwed the pooch in this game big time, but he was not the only guy to lay an egg. Everyone did, from the front office (not making sure the coaches and players were ready for this game) to the coaching staff (poor game planning, underestimating the Ravens, poor adjustments) to the players (poor execution, not mentally ready to play). It was a total failure as an organization. That being said, the Broncos were very close to winning this game.

CEH
01-23-2013, 11:18 AM
Dice it up how you feel fit but the fact is, Flacco beat us deep on 3 TD passes and just missed hitting another big 50 yard TD pass, which would have given him 4 long passes on the day for TD's. Now you can say we got beat once and then gave up a hail mary, which it wasn't but Moore's bad timing sorta made it look that way, you can call it anything you want dude but we got beat like a drum in the secondary that day so don't try to fluff it up and say we didn't.

Blah Blah Blah

And if Moore plays his position correctly Falcco does not complete the last TD. It is what it is. How many teams score with 40 seconds left on a 70 yard TD pass. It wasn't like Moore got beat physically like Champ did.

Sorry dude but if not for the Hail Mary we be looking at these stats for the game. Tell me those stats say anything but below average for yards above average for TDs

Manning - 24/37 for 261 yards, 3 TD, INT, 101.3 PR, 50th GWD, 10th playoff win, hosting the AFC-C
Flacco - 14/27 for 219 yards, 2 TD, INT, 88.3 PR, still never won a playoff game when BAL allows > 14 points

Kaylore
01-23-2013, 11:25 AM
Blah Blah Blah

And if Moore plays his position correctly Falcco

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cVikZ8Oe_XA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mountain Bronco
01-23-2013, 11:39 AM
I thought our Defensive Line play was good this year. We were fairly stout against the run and were league leaders in sacks, that doesn't happen without solid play on the line. I thought our biggest liability on D was in giving up the big passing play and huge games to TE's. That to me says we need more speed and coverage ability at LB and improved safety play.

At LB Miller eats up one spot and I expect him to improve in coverage again next year as he did this year, but do you really want him in coverage over rushing the passer? Answer is NO. WW takes another spot and he is about as fast as it gets at LB so I don't see a big change there next year. Where we lack speed and ability is at MLB so that is the obvious upgrade.

At Safety we again have a few decent parts, but no game changers (either from a fear of getting clobbered ie.. Pollard type player or a ball hawking player).

Those are the two biggest areas of need on the Defense, not DT IMO.

Bigdawg26
01-23-2013, 05:30 PM
I thought our Defensive Line play was good this year. We were fairly stout against the run and were league leaders in sacks, that doesn't happen without solid play on the line. I thought our biggest liability on D was in giving up the big passing play and huge games to TE's. That to me says we need more speed and coverage ability at LB and improved safety play.

At LB Miller eats up one spot and I expect him to improve in coverage again next year as he did this year, but do you really want him in coverage over rushing the passer? Answer is NO. WW takes another spot and he is about as fast as it gets at LB so I don't see a big change there next year. Where we lack speed and ability is at MLB so that is the obvious upgrade.

At Safety we again have a few decent parts, but no game changers (either from a fear of getting clobbered ie.. Pollard type player or a ball hawking player).

Those are the two biggest areas of need on the Defense, not DT IMO.

Agree!