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Smilin Assassin
01-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Or do we look at FA/Draft?

Been thinking about the players/positions we need to address this offseason, and I think this is a key one.

I really liked what Koppen did once he was inserted, but he was on a 1 yr deal and isn't getting any younger. That said, I have to believe he was brought in because the staff wasn't happy w/Walton BEFORE his injury.

Do we bring Dan back? Or maybe hope Blake is the eventual answer?

Thoughts?

RaiderH8r
01-21-2013, 02:09 PM
Barrett Jones.

pricejj
01-21-2013, 02:10 PM
J.D. put a ton of work in last offseason and it showed. I used to think he needed to be replaced, but he seemed like he was kicking ass this year before he was injured.

Resign Koppen, and let them battle it out...I fully expect Walton to win, because he's younger and healthier.

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 02:13 PM
IDK, I think a guy needs to be on the roster and groomed for his replacement. Walton wasn't trash but Koppen was an instant upgrade. I would hope it is Walton or Blake, that means we can free up a draft pick.

I think MLB and DT should be 1a, 1b, then RB, maybe a slot guy to groom for Stokely and then maybe a safety or CB followed by BPA.

Old Dude
01-21-2013, 02:17 PM
J.D. put a ton of work in last offseason and it showed. I used to think he needed to be replaced, but he seemed like he was kicking ass this year before he was injured.

...

I had the opposite impression. And I felt that once Denver signed Koppen, the writing was already on the wall. I guess we'll find out more next training camp.

Heyneck
01-21-2013, 02:18 PM
J.D. put a ton of work in last offseason and it showed. I used to think he needed to be replaced, but he seemed like he was kicking ass this year before he was injured.

Resign Koppen, and let them battle it out...I fully expect Walton to win, because he's younger and healthier.

This! But if Barret Jones is available at 28 you have to give it a thought. Kid can play all over the line and dominate. Boring pick, but damn would it make our oline better. Great depth for both C and G.

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 02:22 PM
This! But if Barret Jones is available at 28 you have to give it a thought. Kid can play all over the line and dominate. Boring pick, but damn would it make our oline better. Great depth for both C and G.

I would love to see us get a guy who can play well at multiple positions along the OL.

I am holding out hope we can get Melton then draft one of the top 2 MLB's on the board but OL is always important and would not be pissed if we used a 1st round pick there.

Anyone think we will try to shop Rameriz since Kuper will get a full offseason to heal up?

Tombstone RJ
01-21-2013, 02:24 PM
I think much depends on Blake.

Lestat
01-21-2013, 02:39 PM
i wasn't fully sold on Jones before the BCS championship game.
at times he's too damn nice, he blocks well and plays the game right but he just didn't have the "mean SOB" in him. but in that game, it came out in a fury, plus he's started 3 BCS title games at 3 different positions and won an lineman award at each position.

if he's there you run to the podium for that Manning insurance.

outdoor_miner
01-21-2013, 02:52 PM
I think much depends on Blake.

Correct. It will be interesting to see what happens with him. Seemed like a classic "give him a year to develop" IR stash. I highly doubt they invest a draft-pick in a Center with both Walton and Blake there... Unless Blake is a total bust.

gyldenlove
01-21-2013, 03:08 PM
JD Walton, he is a superior run blocker and every bit as good a pass blocker.

ludo21
01-21-2013, 03:14 PM
run with what we got

Im with pricejj and gylenlove I thought I saw improvement in Walton before he went down. Peyton went out of his way a few times to praise him.

Kaylore
01-21-2013, 03:19 PM
Walton is a very good pass protector.

RaiderH8r
01-21-2013, 03:26 PM
Barrett jones fixes our depth issues immediately. Kuper's health is a question mark. Jones can play all the spots at a high level.

ScottXray
01-21-2013, 03:58 PM
Walton was balling really well before his injury. Koppen filled in
really well and there was literally no change in play level, but I
don't think he was an upgrade. Walton had his problems the previous 2 years, but not this one.

While improvement at any position is always something you look for, I don't think a high draft pick needs to be invested at Center. Assuming Walton comes back healthy, and we resign Koppen as insurance again, then Blake comes back healthy, we stick with what we have here, and let the chips fall during camp. BPA at LB, DT, CB then OL.

And as far as Koppen I think he was signed after Blake went down, and our line depth there got to near zero, not because Walton was doing poorly. A smart move in light of Walton going down.

Between Walton and Beadles our two youngsters showed a LOT of improvement on the line.

Bacchus
01-21-2013, 04:01 PM
Keep them both and look to the draft to help elsewhere.

Ray Finkle
01-21-2013, 04:44 PM
Keep them both and look to the draft to help elsewhere.

I agree with this 100%

cutthemdown
01-21-2013, 05:03 PM
I'd draft one.

Inkana7
01-21-2013, 06:18 PM
When Koppen came in and didn't suck, it made a lot of people who had been critical of him go "aha! clearly he is better than Walton," when really, Walton is just as good if not better at certain things (he seems to be stronger, but that's just my impression). He's also much younger. Roll with Walton.

Requiem
01-21-2013, 06:29 PM
I would give Greg Eslinger and call and start polishing the Lombardi.

gyldenlove
01-21-2013, 07:18 PM
When Koppen came in and didn't suck, it made a lot of people who had been critical of him go "aha! clearly he is better than Walton," when really, Walton is just as good if not better at certain things (he seems to be stronger, but that's just my impression). He's also much younger. Roll with Walton.

Walton is definitely stronger, Koppen gets less push in the run game and struggles giving support against really big 1-techs in the pass game, he can handle 0-techs with his technique but people lining up on his shoulder are a problem.

Play2win
01-21-2013, 07:59 PM
It just seemed like the whole O-line gelled and worked together as single unit, as soon as Koppen got in there.

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 08:18 PM
I would give Greg Eslinger and call and start polishing the Lombardi.

There are bums like Polumbus and Meyers who started on playoff teams this year. I didn't think they would stick.

It is obvious it takes years to become a very good OL man, the fact that Clady and Franklin were able to come in and start their rookie years shows what great assets they are.

I would love to not have to worry about upgrading C, I hope Walton is back and better.

cabronco
01-21-2013, 08:27 PM
Keep them both and look to the draft to help elsewhere.

This. I thought Walton was starting to play real well when he got injured. Koppen played well aslo, just not sure he's got the upside as Walton. Let it all play out in TC and practices.

Play2win
01-21-2013, 08:30 PM
There are bums like Polumbus and Meyers who started on playoff teams this year. I didn't think they would stick.

It is obvious it takes years to become a very good OL man, the fact that Clady and Franklin were able to come in and start their rookie years shows what great assets they are.

I would love to not have to worry about upgrading C, I hope Walton is back and better.

Really think about it, if we did get Barrett Jones, we would have 3 big physically imposing men on our oline in Clady, Franklin, and Jones.

3 serious keystones for our oline.

lonestar
01-21-2013, 09:34 PM
J.D. put a ton of work in last offseason and it showed. I used to think he needed to be replaced, but he seemed like he was kicking ass this year before he was injured.

Resign Koppen, and let them battle it out...I fully expect Walton to win, because he's younger and healthier.

I'd like to see JD put on 10-15 pounds of muscle more if he can as the anchor in the center of the OL he is always up against someone that right now out weighs him by 20-50 pounds. Whether it is is fat or muscle it is mass and unusually the bigger mass wins out one on one.

This! But if Barret Jones is available at 28 you have to give it a thought. Kid can play all over the line and dominate. Boring pick, but damn would it make our oline better. Great depth for both C and G.


Would have no objections to getting another stud Interior OL guy and let the best man win.

Personally I suspect that as much trouble as Kuper has had with his ankles his career may be soon over or limited to back up duty.

Now maybe thathe jus never healed up or the the injury was a lot more sever than they talked about. As he was not worth a crap in the BAL game at least as much of what I saw of him.

I would have pulled him and out manny back in. I doubt it would have been a drop off at all.

As far as using a first rounder on a LOS pick IMO that should be done about every other year. As we have 9 starters that need to be kept fresh and as a general rule these players do not come in and play every down at a high level until year 2 or so..

Got to replace them to keep them fresh and the competition Hugh for starting spots.

If the LOS guys are stellar then almaot everyone behind them can be lesser quality intend of elite players. Those guys on the LOS improve everyone behind them.

lonestar
01-21-2013, 09:51 PM
Really think about it, if we did get Barrett Jones, we would have 3 big physically imposing men on our oline in Clady, Franklin, and Jones.

3 serious keystones for our oline.

Clady is hardly imposing he is a finesse blocker with great feet and hand.. not a devastating run blocker at all.. at least compared to Franklin.. who has become a solid overall OT..

ScottXray
01-22-2013, 05:42 AM
Clady is hardly imposing he is a finesse blocker with great feet and hand.. not a devastating run blocker at all.. at least compared to Franklin.. who has become a solid overall OT..

Agree with Cladys run blocking...he rarely gets clean blocks in the run game. Most of our run yardage is right and center, hardly ever to the left, and then its usually Beadles that springs the RB. Clady is a good pass blocker, but has trouble with speed rushers.

Rascal
01-22-2013, 07:42 AM
Keep them both and look to the draft to help elsewhere.

This.

nyuk nyuk
01-22-2013, 08:35 AM
Koppen with JD as understudy. Easy call to me.

Kaylore
01-22-2013, 09:01 AM
FWIW, Elway said his number 1 priority is to re-sign Clady this offseason.

LRtagger
01-22-2013, 09:05 AM
I think you draft Jones and start him at Center. Keep JD as the backup. If Kuper or Beadles goes down you slide Jones into that spot and bring in JD. Great Oline depth.

broncosteven
01-22-2013, 09:25 AM
FWIW, Elway said his number 1 priority is to re-sign Clady this offseason.

This needs to be done. Then if we have any money left over throw it at Melton.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 10:40 AM
Agree with Cladys run blocking...he rarely gets clean blocks in the run game. Most of our run yardage is right and center, hardly ever to the left, and then its usually Beadles that springs the RB. Clady is a good pass blocker, but has trouble with speed rushers.

IMO he has lost something since his knee injury, while never a great run blocker his issue now with speed rusher bothers me. Last year he lead the league in holding penalties this past year not so much but then we did have a quick decision maker with fast arm.

Who knows who will be back there the year after next? IMO we franchise him until we know. Draft another OT for the long term.

Sure he is a pro bowl player wgphich only infaltes his value in his and his agents mind. But he is not all that great block for the run which is Foxes favorite thing to do, run the ball. If we HAVE TO go right then they simply load up there to stop it, why not actually get some one that can do all his job instead.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 10:46 AM
FWIW, Elway said his number 1 priority is to re-sign Clady this offseason.

Sounds like coach speak to me. I suspect that once reality sets in with limited funds to work with and so many other bodies Just to get up to the roster limit not outing IR players that count against the cap I'd guess they have to budget 7-10 players for that we will have to sign about 20+ players with less than 19 mil.

I think Clady will price himself out of our ability to pay.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 10:48 AM
This needs to be done. Then if we have any money left over throw it at Melton.

Where is the money coming from?

Heyneck
01-22-2013, 10:53 AM
Sounds like coach speak to me. I suspect that once reality sets in with limited funds to work with and so many other bodies Just to get up to the roster limit not outing IR players that count against the cap I'd guess they have to budget 7-10 players for that we will have to sign about 20+ players with less than 19 mil.

I think Clady will price himself out of our ability to pay.

you must be out of your mind to think we wont pay up to protect PM. Letting Clady walk would be the most idiotic thing the FO could do. Clady will earn his 10+ mill a year he gets from us. If they arn't sure about his long term stay, they will at least franchise him. They have to protect the 96 million investment.

Heyneck
01-22-2013, 10:55 AM
Where is the money coming from?

Cutting DJ, Ball, Wilfork, Mays... possible restructures.

Beantown Bronco
01-22-2013, 11:00 AM
Anyone think we will try to shop Rameriz since Kuper will get a full offseason to heal up?

Kuper is starting to make Moreno look like Cal Ripken out there. I wouldn't go into next season without some major insurance at his position.

Requiem
01-22-2013, 11:08 AM
Lonestar is off in his own little free agency world for sure.

To him: Clady is average. (Allowed 1 sack this year) -- We can't afford anybody in free agency, we won't spend money in free agency.

Tanahan doodle.

Requiem
01-22-2013, 12:05 PM
There are bums like Polumbus and Meyers who started on playoff teams this year. I didn't think they would stick.

It is obvious it takes years to become a very good OL man, the fact that Clady and Franklin were able to come in and start their rookie years shows what great assets they are.

I would love to not have to worry about upgrading C, I hope Walton is back and better.

I don't think Myers was ever a bum. I can't even remember what we got for him when we traded him to the Texans. Polumbus was always average. Lichtensteiger is a starter (IIRC) in Washington. Just stories of a couple of zone guys sticking. I was huge on Greg when he played with the Golden Gophers. Sad to see it didn't pan out in the NFL for him, but I believe he was going to be a doctor or dentist anyways.

WolfpackGuy
01-22-2013, 12:14 PM
Pay Clady and figure out everything else later.

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 12:22 PM
IDK, I think a guy needs to be on the roster and groomed for his replacement. Walton wasn't trash but Koppen was an instant upgrade. I would hope it is Walton or Blake, that means we can free up a draft pick.

I think MLB and DT should be 1a, 1b, then RB, maybe a slot guy to groom for Stokely and then maybe a safety or CB followed by BPA.

I say go next season with Walton or Koppen and maybe Blake. If Koppen wins we draft a successor and if Walton or Blake win and play well we are fine. The position isn't a massive need like MLB Dt. RB or speed at receiver

bronco militia
01-22-2013, 12:22 PM
Lonestar is off in his own little free agency world for sure.

To him: Clady is average. (Allowed 1 sack this year) -- We can't afford anybody in free agency, we won't spend money in free agency.

Tanahan doodle.

Hilarious!

lonestar
01-22-2013, 01:21 PM
you must be out of your mind to think we wont pay up to protect PM. Letting Clady walk would be the most idiotic thing the FO could do. Clady will earn his 10+ mill a year he gets from us. If they arn't sure about his long term stay, they will at least franchise him. They have to protect the 96 million investment.

How are you going to pay him? Right now we are 15 players short of filling out the roster for the 53. We have 18.5 mil under the cap.. Even if we cut some salary we still have to pay those replacement players something.

Even if Pat allows John to spend all of the cap which he has not allowed since the last couple of years with mikey. Each year since then he has limited the GM from spending the full cap. The past few years we have after the season was over had about 12 mil left.

Not only do you have to pay the 53 on the active roster but also those that wound up on IR OUT OF THE CAP. LAT YEAR IIIRC that was 7 playes and the average has been about that. So about 22 players as we speak have to squeeze under the 18.5 million IF pat allows them to spend it all.

Do you see them giving Clady 10+ a proration of the bonus money which could be another 2 and then having just 6 left for the other 21 players?


Think with your big head. Not going to happen.

Requiem
01-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Shut up.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 01:30 PM
Cutting DJ, Ball, Wilfork, Mays... possible restructures.

Who is Wilfork.

Even if you cut dj that saves you 6 and Mayes a shade over 3

Not sure on ball but doubt it would be a mill. So when you take the 1.7 for DJ and probably another 300k for Mayes proated portion of their bonus money now you are looking at maybe 8 million left over and now you have to replace them with 3 more bodies.probaby about 700 K each so the net gain on your scheme is 5.9 mil to spend.

If you restruce you just defer that money till next year and beyond, which is exactly what got mikey into major dead money issues each year.


Will they do some of it?

Probably but the likelyhood of getting additional impact players seem slim and none and resigning Clady long term IMO unlikely.

Since next year we have even more players becoming UFA.

Sorry Charlie but this is not madden or FF. the NFL has actual owners and budget restrictions.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 01:33 PM
Kuper is starting to make Moreno look like Cal Ripken out there. I wouldn't go into next season without some major insurance at his position.

You seem to be right on the money. Not sure how many times Kupes has had ankle issues. And if it never healed right the first time he may never be right again.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 01:44 PM
I see dream is chirping again.

Clady would have had loads more sacks and holding class this past year with anyone other than Manning back there.

Face it he is not the same guy he was before his up knee issue. May never be, sad if he is not. But life goes on in the NFL.

The OLT spot is not near the preimier postion it used to be ten years ago.

With the advent of the quick passing game the odds of a sack happening are WAY down over the old 5-7 step drop back passing game.

If John finds the money and I do not see where it is going to come from, to resign him then I'm ok with it.

But so not be surprised that Clady will be out of our price range especially now he is going back to the pro bowl.


There will be some team out there that will flat out bid us for him.. Happens every year a desparate HC/GM will spend more money than will John and John, will think he is worth.

After Manning which QB will be back there and if he is not as quick on the tigger will Clady be able to take care of him.

He used to be elite since the knee not so much.

BTW had Manning not benn on the team how many pro bowlers would we have had?

Smilin Assassin
01-22-2013, 02:18 PM
I see dream is chirping again.

Clady would have had loads more sacks and holding class this past year with anyone other than Manning back there.

Face it he is not the same guy he was before his up knee issue. May never be, sad if he is not. But life goes on in the NFL.

The OLT spot is not near the preimier postion it used to be ten years ago.

With the advent of the quick passing game the odds of a sack happening are WAY down over the old 5-7 step drop back passing game.

If John finds the money and I do not see where it is going to come from, to resign him then I'm ok with it.

There will be some team out there that will flat out bid us for him.. Happens every year a desparate HC/GM will spend more money than will John and John, will think he is worth.

After Manning which QB will be back there and if he is not as quick on the tigger will Clady be able to take care of him.

He used to be elite since the knee not so much.

BTW had Manning not benn on the team how many pro bowlers would we have had?

Wow.


Just looking at your last, say...20 posts, you have got to be the biggest negative nancy I've ever come across.

Were you upset when Dec 22nd rolled around and the earth was still here? I'm sure you consider yourself a realist, and not a pessimist, but....seriously man. Lighten up.

Enjoy life a lil. Every once in awhile? Good things actually happen.

But so not be surprised that Clady will be out of our price range especially now he is going back to the pro bowl.

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 02:22 PM
You seem to be right on the money. Not sure how many times Kupes has had ankle issues. And if it never healed right the first time he may never be right again.

Give me a break about Kupe being some injury prone can't be counted on player. He had started or played in almost every game since becoming a starter in year 2 until his gruesome injury last season. Considering the severity of that injury it is not surprising he wasn't close to 100% this year. Give the guy the offseason and next season to get that injury completely healed and strengthened back up before you write the guy off.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 02:31 PM
Wow.


Just looking at your last, say...20 posts, you have got to be the biggest negative nancy I've ever come across.

Were you upset when Dec 22nd rolled around and the earth was still here? I'm sure you consider yourself a realist, and not a pessimist, but....seriously man. Lighten up.

Enjoy life a lil. Every once in awhile? Good things actually happen.

But so not be surprised that Clady will be out of our price range especially now he is going back to the pro bowl.

Call me realistic.

No sense in dreaming for somethingnthatnis not going to happen.

Looking at the numbers I have seen, we are not going to be able to sign all these UFA that everyone is having orgasms over.

Not sure we will be able to fill the roster spots correctly writhe the money we have..

While John has Done a masterful job finding talent none of them other than Manning have been long term solutions. One year contracts and then they come UFA rthe next year and if they had a great year then the likelyhood of them coming back diminishes.


Which I'd great for them but tough finding replacements that are cheap.

Right now we have about 35-38 players under contract for 2013. Limited funds to resign them.

No doubt John will pull a few more rabbits out of his hat, but as a business man we will not be able to get any longer term solutions, nor top talent at the spots we need other than via the draft (which in the way to build a team anyway) but just takes longer to do.


Call me negative if you want, I just see it how it is. after 50+ years of watching the team I've earned the right to not wear orange colored glasses and not to yearn for players we can not afford. Just gives you ulcers.

What happens happens. just that simple.

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 02:32 PM
I see dream is chirping again.

Clady would have had loads more sacks and holding class this past year with anyone other than Manning back there.

Face it he is not the same guy he was before his up knee issue. May never be, sad if he is not. But life goes on in the NFL.

The OLT spot is not near the preimier postion it used to be ten years ago.

With the advent of the quick passing game the odds of a sack happening are WAY down over the old 5-7 step drop back passing game.

If John finds the money and I do not see where it is going to come from, to resign him then I'm ok with it.

But so not be surprised that Clady will be out of our price range especially now he is going back to the pro bowl.


There will be some team out there that will flat out bid us for him.. Happens every year a desparate HC/GM will spend more money than will John and John, will think he is worth.

After Manning which QB will be back there and if he is not as quick on the tigger will Clady be able to take care of him.

He used to be elite since the knee not so much.

BTW had Manning not benn on the team how many pro bowlers would we have had?
1 sack allowed for a team that threw more than most teams, another pro bowl an all pro, yeah you are right Clady sucks.

And really you are saying that because we have Manning that our players improving their play to pro bowl level isn't good? If we didn't have Elway we wouldn't have 2 super bowl wins. Your argument that Manning being here made some of our players pro bowlers just shows the talent that Peyton brought out of these guys

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 02:38 PM
Call me realistic.

No sense in dreaming for somethingnthatnis not going to happen.

Looking at the numbers I have seen, we are not going to be able to sign all these UFA that everyone is having orgasms over.

Not sure we will be able to fill the roster spots correctly writhe the money we have..

While John has Done a masterful job finding talent none of them other than Manning have been long term solutions. One year contracts and then they come UFA rthe next year and if they had a great year then the likelyhood of them coming back diminishes.


Which I'd great for them but tough finding replacements that are cheap.

Right now we have about 35-38 players under contract for 2013. Limited funds to resign them.

No doubt John will pull a few more rabbits out of his hat, but as a business man we will not be able to get any longer term solutions, nor top talent at the spots we need other than via the draft (which in the way to build a team anyway) but just takes longer to do.


Call me negative if you want, I just see it how it is. after 50+ years of watching the team I've earned the right to not wear orange colored glasses and not to yearn for players we can not afford. Just gives you ulcers.

What happens happens. just that simple.
That is the point of Elway's use of FA. Bring in good guys for a year or 2 while drafted guys learn and then take over.

He Isn't Shanahaning the team with free agents trying to create a long term fix with free agents. He is building through the draft and adding supplementary pieces through free agency.

These big name free agents we fans want were never in Elway's plan for this team. Look for solid guys who can contribute for a year or 2 and draft picks being groomed to take over

lonestar
01-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Give me a break about Kupe being some injury prone can't be counted on player. He had started or played in almost every game since becoming a starter in year 2 until his gruesome injury last season. Considering the severity of that injury it is not surprising he wasn't close to 100% this year. Give the guy the offseason and next season to get that injury completely healed and strengthened back up before you write the guy off.


Not factual. His only two season he played in every game was 08 and 11. All the other season he missed games period and a few more as starter.

He injured his ankle a few years ago and played hurt on it mainly because we had no one behind him.

Iirc he had ankle surgery last year and frankly not sure it Healed correctly

Do not get me wrong I like the guy think he might have been our best guy on the OL last year 2011 .. But he was struggling all year and a shell of his 2011 level all last year. 12.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 02:47 PM
1 sack allowed for a team that threw more than most teams, another pro bowl an all pro, yeah you are right Clady sucks.

And really you are saying that because we have Manning that our players improving their play to pro bowl level isn't good? If we didn't have Elway we wouldn't have 2 super bowl wins. Your argument that Manning being here made some of our players pro bowlers just shows the talent that Peyton brought out of these guys

Well I see the you never got the RIF while in school I have never said Clady sucks. NEVER.

I have repeated said he is not elite like a few seem to beleive he is. He has never came back from the knee issue and last year led the league in holding calls. Why Because Manning was not the QB and had to protect the passer longer. This the amount of holding calls.

Manning as has been said thousands of time rises all the boats. Please do not try and say had Manning not been here that our offensive guys going and perhaps a couple D guys would be going to the pro bowl. That would plain be silly.


Simply put Clady will be out of our price range. Because some other team needs OLT more than we do at 10million a year.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 02:49 PM
Watching th north south practices looks like there are. A bunch of OT that are coming out and some real animals out there.

I suspect we will get one or more in the draft.

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 03:00 PM
Well I see the you never got the RIF while in school I have never said Clady sucks. NEVER.

I have repeated said he is not elite like a few seem to beleive he is. He has never came back from the knee issue and last year led the league in holding calls. Why Because Manning was not the QB and had to protect the passer longer. This the amount of holding calls.

Manning as has been said thousands of time rises all the boats. Please do not try and say had Manning not been here that our offensive guys going and perhaps a couple D guys would be going to the pro bowl. That would plain be silly.


Simply put Clady will be out of our price range. Because some other team needs OLT more than we do at 10million a year.

What's silly is you faulting guys for stepping up while playing with an elite player

lonestar
01-22-2013, 03:36 PM
What's silly is you faulting guys for stepping up while playing with an elite player

I have not faulted anyone. Merely said that Mainning rose all boats. That most likely they would have not been pro bowlers IF manning was not here.

Please RIF try it some time and stop putting words in my posts that I have not used.

Not sure why the hate other than, It seems that you can not take getting your ass handed to you in posts.


Just because I poo poo some of your wish list players and or prove a post wrong, time to hair up and grow a pair.

CEH
01-22-2013, 04:43 PM
Denver's first interview at the Senior Bowl G Brian Winters Kent State

We would have drafted DeCastro so not sure if the Cooper kid from NC will fall but Guards typically don't go as high as other positions and a good one may be there at 28

Heyneck
01-22-2013, 05:52 PM
]Not factual. His only two season he played in every game was 08 and 11. All the other season he missed games period and a few more as starter. [/B]

He injured his ankle a few years ago and played hurt on it mainly because we had no one behind him.

Iirc he had ankle surgery last year and frankly not sure it Healed correctly

Do not get me wrong I like the guy think he might have been our best guy on the OL last year 2011 .. But he was struggling all year and a shell of his 2011 level all last year. 12.

Wait what? Before this season, he had missed only 2 regular season games in his career. Dude is a bad ass that plays through injuries! This thing of him missing games is total bs!!! He had started at least 15 games the last 4 years, starting 15 in all o those years and the full 16 in 2 of those. Plus... if you factored in that he took that starting job 1/3 into the 2007 season, his durability seems way more impressive.

Of course he wasn't going to be the same this year. He pushed hard to make it back, resulting in a setback. He said so himself, but I could care less. I love his competitive nature, plus his nasty streak!. He has nothing as bad as last year to recover from. Dude will be ready to go for training camp, wouldn't be surprised to see him in OTAs and minicamps.

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 06:55 PM
Not factual. His only two season he played in every game was 08 and 11. All the other season he missed games period and a few more as starter.

He injured his ankle a few years ago and played hurt on it mainly because we had no one behind him.

Iirc he had ankle surgery last year and frankly not sure it Healed correctly

Do not get me wrong I like the guy think he might have been our best guy on the OL last year 2011 .. But he was struggling all year and a shell of his 2011 level all last year. 12.

From 2007-2011 he played 78 of 80 games. Just like I said he played in almost every possible game. The guy is a year removed from a major ankle injury where his foot was turned completely around.

I just in august suffered a similar injury. Car accident that broke both bones in my ankle tore some ligaments and had pins inserted to heal the ankle. 5 months and some rehab and I am just now getting to the point that I am walking without a limp. Doctors said a full year before I am as close to 100% as I will ever be again.

Kupe's injury was worse and he came back in 9 months. No way that ankle was completely back to 100%. Because of that he no doubt compensated more on the other leg which led to his current injury. Let him fully heal from his injuries. He is a warrior for this team so quit talking about the guy like he is some washed up waste of space.

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 07:01 PM
I have not faulted anyone. Merely said that Mainning rose all boats. That most likely they would have not been pro bowlers IF manning was not here.

Please RIF try it some time and stop putting words in my posts that I have not used.

Not sure why the hate other than, It seems that you can not take getting your ass handed to you in posts.


Just because I poo poo some of your wish list players and or prove a post wrong, time to hair up and grow a pair.

Debating with you is like debating with a woman that you can't stand. The only logic that matters is the logic in your head. There is no validity to any other point of view and everyone but you is wrong

DBroncos4life
01-22-2013, 07:02 PM
Denver's first interview at the Senior Bowl G Brian Winters Kent State

We would have drafted DeCastro so not sure if the Cooper kid from NC will fall but Guards typically don't go as high as other positions and a good one may be there at 28

Good move Winters looks good as does Brian Schwenke.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 07:42 PM
From 2007-2011 he played 78 of 80 games. Just like I said he played in almost every possible game. The guy is a year removed from a major ankle injury where his foot was turned completely around.

I just in august suffered a similar injury. Car accident that broke both bones in my ankle tore some ligaments and had pins inserted to heal the ankle. 5 months and some rehab and I am just now getting to the point that I am walking without a limp. Doctors said a full year before I am as close to 100% as I will ever be again.

Kupe's injury was worse and he came back in 9 months. No way that ankle was completely back to 100%. Because of that he no doubt compensated more on the other leg which led to his current injury. Let him fully heal from his injuries. He is a warrior for this team so quit talking about the guy like he is some washed up waste of space.
Again not true.

Figures never lie liar always figure. Looks to me that he missed a game in 09 and 10 along with 5 in 07.

Math is fundamental adds up to 7.

2012 DEN 7 5
2011 DEN 16 16
2010 DEN 15 15
2009 DEN 15 15
2008 DEN 16 16
2007 DEN 16 11
2006 DEN 1 0



http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Chris-Kuper/306c3339-32be-4d9f-a694-8930baa7bc7b


Once again I'd GUESS that his ankle was worse that thought and should have healed but did not

Not to mention the concussions he has had.

Heyneck
01-22-2013, 08:19 PM
Again not true.

Figures never lie liar always figure. Looks to me that he missed a game in 09 and 10 along with 5 in 07.

Math is fundamental adds up to 7.

2012 DEN 7 5
2011 DEN 16 16
2010 DEN 15 15
2009 DEN 15 15
2008 DEN 16 16
2007 DEN 16 11
2006 DEN 1 0



http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Chris-Kuper/306c3339-32be-4d9f-a694-8930baa7bc7b


Once again I'd GUESS that his ankle was worse that thought and should have healed but did not

Not to mention the concussions he has had.

That's what happens when you look at the stats. In 2007 he assumed the starting job 1/3 into the season. As you can see though... he still appeared in all 16 games. So again, you are wrong. He had only missed 2 games due to INJURY up to this season. Hopefully next time you read the full link you post so you don't look the type that look over player stats instead of trying to remember what happened the previous seasons. You know... since you have been watching Bronco Football for 50 years.

Started the Broncos’ final 11 games in 2007 at left guard after seeing time in one game with the club as a rookie in 2006.

*Look it up at the end of the same link you posted. What a Fail!

DBroncos4life
01-22-2013, 08:40 PM
That's what happens when you look at the stats. In 2007 he assumed the starting job 1/3 into the season. As you can see though... he still appeared in all 16 games. So again, you are wrong. He had only missed 2 games due to INJURY up to this season. Hopefully next time you read the full link you post so you don't look the type that look over player stats instead of trying to remember what happened the previous seasons. You know... since you have been watching Bronco Football for 50 years.



*Look it up at the end of the same link you posted. What a Fail!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1003/so-lone-star-take-that-any-episode-of-star-wars-demotivational-poster-1268180180.jpg (http://www.motifake.com/so-lone-star-take-that-any-episode-star-wars-demotivational-posters-93476.html)

Smilin Assassin
01-22-2013, 09:00 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1003/so-lone-star-take-that-any-episode-of-star-wars-demotivational-poster-1268180180.jpg (http://www.motifake.com/so-lone-star-take-that-any-episode-star-wars-demotivational-posters-93476.html)

LOL

ZONA
01-22-2013, 09:01 PM
I think Walton will be back. Sorta hard to really compare how Walton vs Koppen really played out. Walton obviously played very early in the season, so much was new and the schedule was very difficult. Koppen came in and did a nice job but he also came in after there was somewhat of a cohesiveness going offensively and he did not have to play in Atlanta, in New England, against the Steelers and against the Texans. I think Walton did really good for a 2nd year center who was thrown almost a totally new offensive system, a new QB and against those teams.

In conclusion I don't think Center was an issue for us this year. Cmon people, really? Any FA you bring in is already going to be behind Koppen and Walton as far as the playbook and you're not going to find an all world center in FA anyway. If they want to draft a center I guess that's fine but lord please not until very late in the draft. We need those picks for other areas that are a more important need then center.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 09:04 PM
Debating with you is like debating with a woman that you can't stand. The only logic that matters is the logic in your head. There is no validity to any other point of view and everyone but you is wrong

Finally you got it.

Facts are facts you have been unable to beat the facts I've laid out. Now you are changing the subject once again and making it about me and not the debate.

Typical.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 09:23 PM
That's what happens when you look at the stats. In 2007 he assumed the starting job 1/3 into the season. As you can see though... he still appeared in all 16 games. So again, you are wrong. He had only missed 2 games due to INJURY up to this season. Hopefully next time you read the full link you post so you don't look the type that look over player stats instead of trying to remember what happened the previous seasons. You know... since you have been watching Bronco Football for 50 years.



*Look it up at the end of the same link you posted. What a Fail!

You aRe correct I read it as starting 78 of 80 games.

I think we all know that he played Hurt in many of those games and had several ankle sprains during his career here. I'm not going go back and check out the injury reports but I think we can agree he has had issues with them. And the break was gruesome.

I think we also agree that even though he played this year after the wrist/broke arm which or both was healed he played like crap most of the time he was not the KUPES we all loved to see play. His play in the playoff game was far below his normal standard.

I will state it again chances are his starting career is over in Denver.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Unlike some I will admit I was wrong.

Let me add whether he played at ORG or OLG it matters not. That was never in the conversation.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 09:28 PM
I think Walton will be back. Sorta hard to really compare how Walton vs Koppen really played out. Walton obviously played very early in the season, so much was new and the schedule was very difficult. Koppen came in and did a nice job but he also came in after there was somewhat of a cohesiveness going offensively and he did not have to play in Atlanta, in New England, against the Steelers and against the Texans. I think Walton did really good for a 2nd year center who was thrown almost a totally new offensive system, a new QB and against those teams.

In conclusion I don't think Center was an issue for us this year. Cmon people, really? Any FA you bring in is already going to be behind Koppen and Walton as far as the playbook and you're not going to find an all world center in FA anyway. If they want to draft a center I guess that's fine but lord please not until very late in the draft. We need those picks for other areas that are a more important need then center.


Great post we have bigger fish to fry. If they find one in the draft great if not pit 15 more pounds of muscle on JD. And send him into battle.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 09:31 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1003/so-lone-star-take-that-any-episode-of-star-wars-demotivational-poster-1268180180.jpg (http://www.motifake.com/so-lone-star-take-that-any-episode-star-wars-demotivational-posters-93476.html)

So calling names is what you have resorted to.

A shame you can't win a debate without acting like a child.

One of these days you might mature. But perhaps not, not my worries.

lonestar
01-22-2013, 09:51 PM
Broncos guard Chris Kuper needs surgery, declines Pro Bowl
Posted: 01/22/2013 02:55:40 PM MST
Updated: 01/22/2013 03:51:00 PM MST
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post


For the record, count Chris Kuper among the Broncos players invited to the Pro Bowl.

The right guard opted out, though, because of impending surgery to repair what turned out to be another break in his lower left fibula.

The break is in the same area where Kuper suffered a severe left ankle dislocation during the final game of the 2011 regular season.

The initial injury, which occurred Jan. 1, 2012, in a 7-3 loss against the Kansas City Chiefs, was more serious. The dislocation caused multiple breaks in the fibula and several ligament tears. During surgery a plate was inserted with several screws to help repair the damage.

Not everything about the surgery took, one reason Kuper this time will be operated on by Dr. Bob Anderson in Charlotte, N.C.

"This one is less traumatic," Kuper said. "It doesn't have all the other things wrong in there so I'm optimistic it will be a normal recovery."

The longest tenured member of the Broncos' offensive line, Kuper, 30, wound up starting only six games, counting the playoff loss to Baltimore, this season because of various injuries.

Read more: Broncos guard Chris Kuper needs surgery, declines Pro Bowl - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22426823/broncos-guard-chris-kuper-needs-surgery-declines-pro#ixzz2Im733ray
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

lonestar
01-22-2013, 09:53 PM
Kuper to undergo further surgery, and why did he play 94 snaps against Baltimore?
Douglas Lee Jan 22, 2013 9:22 PM

Broncos guard Chris Kuper has opted out of the Pro Bowl, and will soon undergo surgery to repair a reaggravation of the injury that ended his 2011 season.

Kuper endured a gruesome leg injury in the 2011 regular season finale which included a dislocated ankle, several torn ligaments, and multiple breaks in his fibula.

A broken forearm suffered during training camp last summer caused the seventh-year guard to miss the season's first five games, and he reinjured his leg injury Week 9 at Cincinnati.

Initial X-rays revealed no further damage, but the injury ended up keeping Kuper out of Denver's Week 14 game at Oakland, and it was at that point discovered that Kuper's leg was again in poor shape.

It's rather difficult to tell from the wording in Mike Klis's article whether the problem is with Kuper's fibula, or the plate that had been used to stabilize it a year ago. Either the bone or the plate has been "shattered," and the rest of the blogosphere is translating Klis's words to mean it's the fibula. Granted, this makes sense, given that the plate's material should not be capable of being shattered, but we'd prefer to point out the poor wording than make a statement of fact based upon it.

Verbiage aside, the severity of Kuper's injury, plus the abject crappiness of his play against Baltimore, calls into sharp question the Broncos staff's decisions to start him in that game, and to stick with him throughout his obvious struggles.

His minus-7.4 grade from PFF is by far the worst given him during the site's five seasons of existence, and nobody - not Champ Bailey, not Rahim Moore - came even close to grading out as poorly in the loss. Kuper struggled in all facets, allowing two hits and one hurry against Peyton Manning, and getting whistled for three drive-killing holding penalties, although one of them was a highly questionable call (during Jacob Hester's would-be 3rd-and-1 conversion).

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/kuper-to-undergo-further-surgery-and-why-did-he-play-against-baltimore

BroncoMan4ever
01-22-2013, 10:13 PM
Again not true.

Figures never lie liar always figure. Looks to me that he missed a game in 09 and 10 along with 5 in 07.

Math is fundamental adds up to 7.

2012 DEN 7 5
2011 DEN 16 16
2010 DEN 15 15
2009 DEN 15 15
2008 DEN 16 16
2007 DEN 16 11
2006 DEN 1 0



http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Chris-Kuper/306c3339-32be-4d9f-a694-8930baa7bc7b


Once again I'd GUESS that his ankle was worse that thought and should have healed but did not

Not to mention the concussions he has had.

You spout that others need to RIF yet you don't. At no point did I say he started 78 of 80 games, I said he played. He didn't become a full time starter until midway through the 07 season but he played in every game.

And your thought on the ankle is just your opinion unless of course you're his doctor

lonestar
01-22-2013, 10:41 PM
You spout that others need to RIF yet you don't. At no point did I say he started 78 of 80 games, I said he played. He didn't become a full time starter until midway through the 07 season but he played in every game.

And your thought on the ankle is just your opinion unless of course you're his doctor

might want to read Kliss's article on today paper or for that matter this one

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/kuper-to-undergo-further-surgery-and-why-did-he-play-against-baltimore

seems I'm not the only one thinking something is not kosher in Dove valley..


as for the other comment I misquoted you. and said so in this post



That's what happens when you look at the stats. In 2007 he assumed the starting job 1/3 into the season. As you can see though... he still appeared in all 16 games. So again, you are wrong. He had only missed 2 games due to INJURY up to this season. Hopefully next time you read the full link you post so you don't look the type that look over player stats instead of trying to remember what happened the previous seasons. You know... since you have been watching Bronco Football for 50 years.



*Look it up at the end of the same link you posted. What a Fail!

You are correct I read it as starting 78 of 80 games.

I think we all know that he played Hurt in many of those games and had several ankle sprains during his career here. I'm not going go back and check out the injury reports but I think we can agree he has had issues with them. And the break was gruesome.

I think we also agree that even though he played this year after the wrist/broke arm which or both was healed he played like crap most of the time he was not the KUPES we all loved to see play. His play in the playoff game was far below his normal standard.

I will state it again chances are his starting career is over in Denver.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Unlike some I will admit I was wrong.

Let me add whether he played at ORG or OLG it matters not. That was never in the conversation.


which was in reference to this one..that I misread reading them on an iPhone well sometimes you do not see every thing that the OP said..

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
From 2007-2011 he played 78 of 80 games. Just like I said he played in almost every possible game. The guy is a year removed from a major ankle injury where his foot was turned completely around.

I just in august suffered a similar injury. Car accident that broke both bones in my ankle tore some ligaments and had pins inserted to heal the ankle. 5 months and some rehab and I am just now getting to the point that I am walking without a limp. Doctors said a full year before I am as close to 100% as I will ever be again.

Kupe's injury was worse and he came back in 9 months. No way that ankle was completely back to 100%. Because of that he no doubt compensated more on the other leg which led to his current injury. Let him fully heal from his injuries. He is a warrior for this team so quit talking about the guy like he is some washed up waste of space.

Bacchus
01-22-2013, 10:48 PM
1 sack allowed for a team that threw more than most teams, another pro bowl an all pro, yeah you are right Clady sucks.

And really you are saying that because we have Manning that our players improving their play to pro bowl level isn't good? If we didn't have Elway we wouldn't have 2 super bowl wins. Your argument that Manning being here made some of our players pro bowlers just shows the talent that Peyton brought out of these guys

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l6k30Vfd964/TrQPbzFkMPI/AAAAAAAAV4Y/r2NQcH6hrxI/s1600/high5me.gif

cutthemdown
01-23-2013, 12:09 AM
If our oline is so good and we need nothing how come they don't move the LOS in short yardage very well? It really looks like when i watch Beadles and Koppen can pass block but not much else unless the defense isn't looking run. In short yardage when teams are loaded to stop us we don't seem to do well.

If Clady a medicore run blocker doesn't it make sense we need a real mauler next to him? a pile mover?

lonestar
01-23-2013, 01:03 AM
If our oline is so good and we need nothing how come they don't move the LOS in short yardage very well? It really looks like when i watch Beadles and Koppen can pass block but not much else unless the defense isn't looking run. In short yardage when teams are loaded to stop us we don't seem to do well.

If Clady a medicore run blocker doesn't it make sense we need a real mauler next to him? a pile mover?

Beadles is a great run blocker. But when you are out weighed by 20-40 pounds it is unlikely that the interior of the OL is going to move them.

That said clady is a pretty good in pass protect, but is no Franklin when it comes to run blocking.

Giving him the key to the mint is silly, especially since he is lacking at run blocking.

With another off season of conditioning and coaching I believe that both Beadles and Walton and hopefully KUper heals up and all three put some additional weight on 10-15 pounds of muscle will make a heck of a difference when we have to have a yard.

Kaylore
01-23-2013, 01:39 AM
Yeah Beadles is a better run blocker than pass blocker. I don't know what you're talking about, CTD.