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View Full Version : The Postseason still comes down to defense


Mediator12
01-21-2013, 10:08 AM
Both Winners of yesterdays games shut out the home team in the second half. Yes, that is right, the visiting teams shut out the HOME teams in the second half yesterday.

I was very happy with what happened defensively this year, but absolutely not happy with the defensive performance in the playoff game. I have rewatched the game several times and the defense played almost as bad as the infamous 2006 AFCCG implosion after playing fantastic for most of the year.

This concerns me, because our personnel was beaten 1 on 1 way too often against BAL. The Scheme, halftime adjustments, and playcalling were great all year but were terrible in the playoff game. I really believe this is why Ron Milus was let go, but lets hope the new guy gets the message.

I really want to see a better gameplan and adjustments on Defense in the playoffs next year. DEN got abused against an AVERAGE BAL offense. They gave up 5 explosive plays in that game when they gave up only 5 the second half of the season. They were situationally poorly prepared and executed like a team that was wildly inconsistent, not a top 5 defense.

I like DEN's chances next year, I really do. However, that kind of coaching performance can not be repeated.

spdirty
01-21-2013, 10:09 AM
More than that it comes down to safety play.

OBF1
01-21-2013, 10:13 AM
You can not blame the safety's or CB's when the front 7 are not getting any pressure on the opposing QB. You can only cover so long.

spdirty
01-21-2013, 10:17 AM
You can not blame the safety's or CB's when the front 7 are not getting any pressure on the opposing QB. You can only cover so long.

For that 1 ****ing back breaking play you can.

winstoncup bronco
01-21-2013, 10:19 AM
Getting the offense to score more than 7 points in the second half and a full period of OT wouldn't hurt either.

Pick Six
01-21-2013, 10:55 AM
Baltimore demonstrated how to successfully get through the playoffs. They were agressive on offense AND defense, while limiting mistakes. That was a clinic...

Mediator12
01-21-2013, 10:58 AM
Getting the offense to score more than 7 points in the second half and a full period of OT wouldn't hurt either.

For once, the offense was not the issue. They scored 21 points and had some great ST's help to get 35 total. They scored on 3 of 8 posessions and had 4 of those other 5 drives screwed up by the bogus non-PI TD BAL and several really dubious Holding calls stalled drives. You should win a game in the playoffs when you score 35 points at home.

The big deal was allowing BAL's offense to score 31 points after taking them to the cleaners in their place a month before.

NFLBRONCO
01-21-2013, 10:59 AM
Denver needs to rush the passer alot better to compete with the big boys. DB and O sucked too.

gunns
01-21-2013, 11:05 AM
Both Winners of yesterdays games shut out the home team in the second half. Yes, that is right, the visiting teams shut out the HOME teams in the second half yesterday.

I was very happy with what happened defensively this year, but absolutely not happy with the defensive performance in the playoff game. I have rewatched the game several times and the defense played almost as bad as the infamous 2006 AFCCG implosion after playing fantastic for most of the year.

This concerns me, because our personnel was beaten 1 on 1 way too often against BAL. The Scheme, halftime adjustments, and playcalling were great all year but were terrible in the playoff game. I really believe this is why Ron Milus was let go, but lets hope the new guy gets the message.

I really want to see a better gameplan and adjustments on Defense in the playoffs next year. DEN got abused against an AVERAGE BAL offense. They gave up 5 explosive plays in that game when they gave up only 5 the second half of the season. They were situationally poorly prepared and executed like a team that was wildly inconsistent, not a top 5 defense.

I like DEN's chances next year, I really do. However, that kind of coaching performance can not be repeated.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. If the defense that had played during the season had played in that game, and Fox hadn't lost his mind with 30 left, guess where we'd be today. You have to have a dominant defense that executes well. A dominant defense will allow your offense to do whatever and look good doing it.

And thank you to spdirty for mentioning the safeties. This has nothing to do with Moore, well maybe some. Successful team have stand out safeties. Hell you can even go back to SB XXXII. An INT catch and Atwater was probably MVP.

elsid13
01-21-2013, 11:07 AM
Denver needs to rush the passer alot better to compete with the big boys. DB and O sucked too.

Make you wonder if Doom is really worth the money that Denver pays him.

cabronco
01-21-2013, 11:08 AM
Baltimore demonstrated how to successfully get through the playoffs. They were agressive on offense AND defense, while limiting mistakes. That was a clinic...


On top of that The Ravens out phyically play their opponents with their Defense. They would punish the ball carrier or receiver getting the ball. They played us hard & physical, and certainly did to the Pats. Knocked the rb out to get a turnover. They keep it pretty basic on D, and just punch you in the mouth, similar to the Bears. We need that type of play/mentality on our team. We played pretty tough most the year, but didnt bring it or step up our game for the playoffs.

CEH
01-21-2013, 11:15 AM
Way too many big plays but the defense up to 40 seconds left was playing well enough to win a playoff game at home
The big deal was allowing a 70 yard TD with 40 seconds left.

Before that play and OT Flacco was 14 for 26 219 yards and 2 TDs
Ray Rice was under 100 yards on 19 carries.

The missed FG was a back breaker. Denver easily could have been up 17 one minute into the 3rd qtr and would have rolled Baltimore just like they did in week 15

I am still very optimistic that this team can get better and be one of teh most compete teams in teh NFL for years to come

CEH
01-21-2013, 11:19 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you. If the defense that had played during the season had played in that game, and Fox hadn't lost his mind with 30 left, guess where we'd be today. You have to have a dominant defense that executes well. A dominant defense will allow your offense to do whatever and look good doing it.

And thank you to spdirty for mentioning the safeties. This has nothing to do with Moore, well maybe some. Successful team have stand out safeties. Hell you can even go back to SB XXXII. An INT catch and Atwater was probably MVP.

Speaking of Atwater, remember in the GB Super Bowl and Farve was driving. You saw Atwater playing deep and coming up and laying out himself and 2 others.

Never let anyone get behind you

Lestat
01-21-2013, 11:25 AM
you know what helps a great defense? a dynamic MLB.
Lewis and Willis help solve a lot of issues for their defenses. diagnosing plays,dropping into coverage to allow others to rush, forcing a extra blocker to key on them and free up an edge rusher at DB or DL.

getting a really good MLB and DT in the draft would solve a lot of issues for us.

pricejj
01-21-2013, 11:35 AM
If your Defensive players can't cover the Offensive players one-on-one, you need better Defensive players.

Neither Torrey Smith (4.41 forty), nor Jacoby Jones (4.5 forty) are super-fast. Tracy Porter would have been able to guard Torrey Smith easily. Champ is too old and slow (or at least he was that day), and Tony Carter just sucks.

There is no reason a guy who runs a 4.41 forty should be getting 5 yards behind your Defense all day. No reason at all. It was super-crappy execution by the Broncos DB's...when they knew exactly what was coming.

pricejj
01-21-2013, 11:48 AM
Rahim Moore made one bad play, and slightly misjudged the flight of a looping rainbow pass, coming up 6 inches short of a game ending INT. He showed remarkable progress in the last year, and won't make that mistake again...you can count on it.

Champ got blown out of the freaking water by a guy who doesn't even have elite speed.

Judging by the first time we played the Ravens, I can't judge Champ too harshly based on one game. Maybe he was wearing an extra pair of long johns and a sweatshirt that weighed him down, who knows. I think everybody's concentration was slightly off due to the nagging, biting cold too.

But yeah, still need to get pressure out of a 4-man line. MLB had nothing to do with the loss (not that a much cheaper upgrade wouldn't be nice...and may also free up some money to pursue a dominant DT).

Inkana7
01-21-2013, 11:59 AM
yup torrey smith sure isn't that fast, good call

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 12:13 PM
I said this in the Welker thread,

Throw the money at Henry Melton and draft the best MLB we can get, we need to be more physical in the middle of the field. DJ did nothing after coming back, they had him in the OLB depth chart not MLB, if they don't keep him and move him to MLB full time we need to find a stud in the draft or see if we can't milk a couple years out of a FA.

Between a more physical presence in the middle of the field that can both stuff the run and push in interior of the pocket the secondary will get better hopefully at the expense of Milus.

Greatspirits
01-21-2013, 12:13 PM
On top of that The Ravens out phyically play their opponents with their Defense. They would punish the ball carrier or receiver getting the ball. They played us hard & physical, and certainly did to the Pats. Knocked the rb out to get a turnover. They keep it pretty basic on D, and just punch you in the mouth, similar to the Bears. We need that type of play/mentality on our team. We played pretty tough most the year, but didnt bring it or step up our game for the playoffs.

With one year under his belt I expect JDR to bring a more physical presence to our Defense.

ZONA
01-21-2013, 12:15 PM
You can not blame the safety's or CB's when the front 7 are not getting any pressure on the opposing QB. You can only cover so long.

That is normally the case but Champ was beaten several times almost right away and no pass rush would have made a difference on those plays. Same with Moore's infamous play. You can't blame that on the pass rush. Face the facts, our secondary was horrible that game, pass rush or no pass rush, they looked terrible.

ScottXray
01-21-2013, 12:19 PM
Both Winners of yesterdays games shut out the home team in the second half. Yes, that is right, the visiting teams shut out the HOME teams in the second half yesterday.

I was very happy with what happened defensively this year, but absolutely not happy with the defensive performance in the playoff game. I have rewatched the game several times and the defense played almost as bad as the infamous 2006 AFCCG implosion after playing fantastic for most of the year.

This concerns me, because our personnel was beaten 1 on 1 way too often against BAL. The Scheme, halftime adjustments, and playcalling were great all year but were terrible in the playoff game. I really believe this is why Ron Milus was let go, but lets hope the new guy gets the message.

I really want to see a better gameplan and adjustments on Defense in the playoffs next year. DEN got abused against an AVERAGE BAL offense. They gave up 5 explosive plays in that game when they gave up only 5 the second half of the season. They were situationally poorly prepared and executed like a team that was wildly inconsistent, not a top 5 defense.

I like DEN's chances next year, I really do. However, that kind of coaching performance can not be repeated.

Agree. Beef up the team talent and make it so even officals poor calls ( or lack of calls) do not put us in danger of losing. Coaching must do a better job of prepping and adjusting next year. Not sure why they had such a poor
plan this year.

bpc
01-21-2013, 12:19 PM
I think we played a $hitty game along w/ refs giving us the screw job and cleanly won that game if not for Moore's stupidity in coverage. With that being said and critically looking at ourselves... the coaches absolutely $hit the pot and one can say that Manning choked as well. JDR/Fox/McCoy all got out of our comfort zones. You could tell on bunch plays by Baltimore that the defensive coverage did not know what they were doing. It burned us too. The play calls in that game displayed folks that were nervous. When compared to close games in the regular season, we played loose and called plays to win the game, like throws on 3rd and short. We didn't run on obvious running downs, and we didn't kneel on the ball.

I like where we are going but as Elway needed help in his later years by a great running game, we REALLY need to find a dependable back that can alter what defenses do against our pass game if we are going to take the next step. McGahee and Moreno were not dependable when the games were on the line. Hillman has some potential but limited upside IMO based on what he did last year. Lots of areas to improve but it was a good year overall. We let an amazing opportunity slip away. We had Baltimore down for the count and let them back into it.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-21-2013, 12:21 PM
Rahim Moore made one bad play, and slightly misjudged the flight of a looping rainbow pass, coming up 6 inches short of a game ending INT. He showed remarkable progress in the last year, and won't make that mistake again...you can count on it.

Champ got blown out of the freaking water by a guy who doesn't even have elite speed.

Judging by the first time we played the Ravens, I can't judge Champ too harshly based on one game. Maybe he was wearing an extra pair of long johns and a sweatshirt that weighed him down, who knows. I think everybody's concentration was slightly off due to the nagging, biting cold too.

But yeah, still need to get pressure out of a 4-man line. MLB had nothing to do with the loss (not that a much cheaper upgrade wouldn't be nice...and may also free up some money to pursue a dominant DT).

Regardless of the rest, Torrey Smith is pretty fast. Timed in low 4.4's, rumored 4.3 before that.

Anyway, i do think the cold probably played apart in everyones game too.

go_broncos
01-21-2013, 12:22 PM
Playoff games are not for conservative minded coaches.
With the same set of players, we would have won the game last week if the coach was different.
We got lot of opportunities to take 10/14 point lead..What did we do???
Played conservatively..After ravens turnover, we had a opportunity to put the game away.
What did we do..Keep running the ball to kill the clock.
These days 17 point lead going in 2nd half is also not safe.
Yet, our coach sits on 7 point lead.

We are a good team that could have reached SB this year.
No one can predict next year.

Adding good players is fine.Fox should know when to play conservative and when to attach..If his mindset is not changed, we will be talking about him the way we talk about Mike Smith, Marty.

Broncos4Life
01-21-2013, 12:23 PM
Moore than that it comes down to safety play.


Fixed that for you :)

CEH
01-21-2013, 12:26 PM
I think we played a $hitty game along w/ refs giving us the screw job and cleanly won that game if not for Moore's stupidity in coverage. With that being said and critically looking at ourselves... the coaches absolutely $hit the pot and one can say that Manning choked as well. JDR/Fox/McCoy all got out of our comfort zones. You could tell on bunch plays by Baltimore that the defensive coverage did not know what they were doing. It burned us too. The play calls in that game displayed folks that were nervous. When compared to close games in the regular season, we played loose and called plays to win the game, like throws on 3rd and short. We didn't run on obvious running downs, and we didn't kneel on the ball.

I like where we are going but as Elway needed help in his later years by a great running game, we REALLY need to find a dependable back that can alter what defenses do against our pass game if we are going to take the next step. McGahee and Moreno were not dependable when the games were on the line. Hillman has some potential but limited upside IMO based on what he did last year. Lots of areas to improve but it was a good year overall. We let an amazing opportunity slip away. We had Baltimore down for the count and let them back into it.

Thinking out loud wonder if MJD would be available this offseason
This move alone would propel Denver to the top the NFL. Throw to win run to close out the games.

A guy can dream

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 12:33 PM
Regardless of the rest, Torrey Smith is pretty fast. Timed in low 4.4's, rumored 4.3 before that.

Anyway, i do think the cold probably played apart in everyones game too.

Torry Smith is turning into a very good WR, he has speed and hands, he is going to beat a lot of good CB's in this league, not adjusting the safeties or coaching Champ to get in his grill at the LOS was more Milus's fault.

I would love to see Champ move to FS, he would upgrade the position immensely but I am confident he can still play CB for a couple more years if he wants.

razorwire77
01-21-2013, 12:37 PM
I think you strongly consider trying to sign a guy like Glenn Dorsey as a FA and give him a shot as a 4-3 DT, or maybe an Alan Branch (who was highly productive as a Seahawk this year.) Then maybe you hedge your bets by taking a guy like Sharrif Floyd at the bottom of the first round. Our interior d-line got next to no push against Bmore. Then you draft a guy like Minter at the bottom of the 2nd round.

bpc
01-21-2013, 01:49 PM
I agree. DT's have a learning curve where as HB's can come and contribute from year 1. I'd be more a fan of Denver resigning Clady and adding some defense in FA and then spending draft picks on offense to give Manning some more weapons.

2KBack
01-21-2013, 01:54 PM
I think you strongly consider trying to sign a guy like Glenn Dorsey as a FA and give him a shot as a 4-3 DT, or maybe an Alan Branch (who was highly productive as a Seahawk this year.) Then maybe you hedge your bets by taking a guy like Sharrif Floyd at the bottom of the first round. Our interior d-line got next to no push against Bmore. Then you draft a guy like Minter at the bottom of the 2nd round.

Minter won't last that long....you'd have to go 2nd tier like Mauti or Skov or somthing

TheReverend
01-21-2013, 01:55 PM
Minter won't last that long....you'd have to go 2nd tier like Mauti or Skov or somthing

How dare you call Mauti 2nd tier, you sonofabitch.

Popps
01-21-2013, 02:01 PM
Both Winners of yesterdays games shut out the home team in the second half. Yes, that is right, the visiting teams shut out the HOME teams in the second half yesterday.

I was very happy with what happened defensively this year, but absolutely not happy with the defensive performance in the playoff game. I have rewatched the game several times and the defense played almost as bad as the infamous 2006 AFCCG implosion after playing fantastic for most of the year.

This concerns me, because our personnel was beaten 1 on 1 way too often against BAL. The Scheme, halftime adjustments, and playcalling were great all year but were terrible in the playoff game. I really believe this is why Ron Milus was let go, but lets hope the new guy gets the message.

I really want to see a better gameplan and adjustments on Defense in the playoffs next year. DEN got abused against an AVERAGE BAL offense. They gave up 5 explosive plays in that game when they gave up only 5 the second half of the season. They were situationally poorly prepared and executed like a team that was wildly inconsistent, not a top 5 defense.

I like DEN's chances next year, I really do. However, that kind of coaching performance can not be repeated.

This is a yearly argument around here. Every year, the usual "it's an offensive league now" chant is thrown around, and every year the team that can step up defensively in the playoffs seems to be the one that makes it to the dance.
(Holding the Pats to 13 points is a stellar playoff performance.)

Like in 2005 when our defense laid down against the Steelers, our defense gave up 28 points against a Ravens offense that had not been particularly explosive as of late. But, like in 2005... the conversation around here after we lost was about what the quarterback did wrong.

The bottom line is that no QB should be expected to overcome 35 point deficits in a playoff game. If that's how you're planning to win a SB, you're going to be very disappointed. Ask Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers about this fact. Or, just ask Peyton Manning.

I've been critical of our offensive play-calling in the game. No question we made mistakes. I also would point out that the big, mauler-type WR played a huge rule in the games this year. Boldin, Gonzales, Hernandez, etc. While I think our TEs played well, I wouldn't mind seeing us go after one of these big, Gronkowski-style apes that can get open and abuse LBs. I also would advocate actually using a Pro Bowl WR like Thomas when he's healthy and on the field in a playoff game.

But, it comes down to defense. We lost to the Ravens because of defensive lapses and a generally poor performance, the same reason we lost our last important playoff game. You have to have a defense that can keep you in a low scoring game, or a game where your QB makes mistakes like Manning did. If you don't have that defense, you're not going to a Superbowl 95% of the time.

chrisp
01-21-2013, 03:12 PM
Its not offense or defense but both. All teams have an emphasis on one or the other but can make winning plays on both sides when they need to. However I agree that the key plays that cost us the game were those lapses on defense. It may be unpopular to say this round here, but I think those lapses were uncharacteristic and those same two players (Moore and Bailey) will be back in next year's playoffs atonig for their errors.

Those plays were horrific but they should not define a player's career.....

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-21-2013, 03:24 PM
I agree it could be both. Niners could've shut out Atlanta in the 2nd half and still lose. An offense wins a game when they are down 17-0. Just like ravens offense beat us. Against the broncos That ravens defense gave up a 10 play 88 yard drive in the 4th losing the lead. Their offense bailed them out.

Offense wins.

Lestat
01-21-2013, 03:45 PM
Minter won't last that long....you'd have to go 2nd tier like Mauti or Skov or somthing

not a skov fan. Minter,Jackson or Bostic(even with his idiot issues in the BCS bowl vs Louisville)are the top ILB's i like. Ogletree fits the fox mold though. normally draft an athletic freak who's smaller and can get sideline to sideline and make big plays.
Shariff Floyd is the DT i want in this draft. so flexible and would fit well next to Wolfe.

orinjkrush
01-21-2013, 04:46 PM
dennis smith....first round
steve atwater...first round
ed reed......first round
troy polawhachacmacallit...first round
laron landry...first round
eric berry...first round

time to put some more emphasis on what's killing us: stopping TE's and CB help.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-21-2013, 04:57 PM
dennis smith....first round
steve atwater...first round
ed reed......first round
troy polawhachacmacallit...first round
laron landry...first round
eric berry...first round

time to put some more emphasis on what's killing us: stopping TE's and CB help.

I think RB killed us. A stable of injury prone backs getting hurt at the wrong times.

winstoncup bronco
01-21-2013, 05:05 PM
I agree it could be both. Niners could've shut out Atlanta in the 2nd half and still lose. An offense wins a game when they are down 17-0. Just like ravens offense beat us. Against the broncos That ravens defense gave up a 10 play 88 yard drive in the 4th losing the lead. Their offense bailed them out.

Offense wins.

This.

This entire postseason, only one team has won a game where their offense scored less than the 21 points our offense put up against Baltimore.

It's very catchy to use the 'defense wins' cliches, but you have to remember that the offenses you are facing in the playoffs aren't pushovers. San Francisco gave up 31 points to GB, and they still won easily. Unless you have the '85 Bears defense, it's a good idea to have an offense that can score 30 points or more if needed.

Our defense let us down big time, but you cannot ignore 7 points by the offense over the last 3 quarters of the game. It's foolish to think that wasn't a factor.

CEH
01-21-2013, 05:53 PM
This.

This entire postseason, only one team has won a game where their offense scored less than the 21 points our offense put up against Baltimore.

It's very catchy to use the 'defense wins' cliches, but you have to remember that the offenses you are facing in the playoffs aren't pushovers. San Francisco gave up 31 points to GB, and they still won easily. Unless you have the '85 Bears defense, it's a good idea to have an offense that can score 30 points or more if needed.

Our defense let us down big time, but you cannot ignore 7 points by the offense over the last 3 quarters of the game. It's foolish to think that wasn't a factor.

Somehow SF managed to give up 24 points in the first half yesterday and 280 yards of offense. Not really dominate . Ryan decided to give SF two turnovers to help their cause in the 2nd half

maher_tyler
01-21-2013, 07:33 PM
This.

This entire postseason, only one team has won a game where their offense scored less than the 21 points our offense put up against Baltimore.

It's very catchy to use the 'defense wins' cliches, but you have to remember that the offenses you are facing in the playoffs aren't pushovers. San Francisco gave up 31 points to GB, and they still won easily. Unless you have the '85 Bears defense, it's a good idea to have an offense that can score 30 points or more if needed.

Our defense let us down big time, but you cannot ignore 7 points by the offense over the last 3 quarters of the game. It's foolish to think that wasn't a factor.

Not to mention we took zero shots down the field. I wonder what the reasoning was? Maybe they just weren't open. All I know is that RB, MLB and DT were positions that stood out as severly lacked playmaking ability. Those positions and the interior of the OL need upgrading!

Rascal
01-21-2013, 08:25 PM
Make you wonder if Doom is really worth the money that Denver pays him.

NO.

Rohirrim
01-21-2013, 08:27 PM
Love Skov. He's a playmaker and a leader. But he's out of the picture. He's going back to Stanford as a fifth year senior.