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View Full Version : Does the game last saturday affect Champs place in broncos history?


Mile High 81
01-17-2013, 02:25 AM
I know there is the 100 post rule but i think this is an interesting question?

I know that everybody can have a bad game but i mean really:

You are a Hall of fame CB you have no ring and every shot can be your last. And you play a game like this?

BowlenBall
01-17-2013, 03:26 AM
Still in stage 2, huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stages_of_grief

1) Denial — "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me."
Denial is usually only a temporary defense for the individual. This feeling is generally replaced with heightened awareness of possessions and individuals that will be left behind after death. Denial can be conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, or the reality of the situation. Denial is a defense mechanism and some people can become locked in this stage.

2) Anger — "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; '"Who is to blame?"
Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy. Anger can manifest itself in different ways. People can be angry with themselves, or with others, and especially those who are close to them. It is important to remain detached and nonjudgmental when dealing with a person experiencing anger from grief.

3) Bargaining — "I'll do anything for a few more years."; "I will give my life savings if..."
The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay death. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made with a higher power in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand I will die, but if I could just do something to buy more time..." People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?.." when facing a break-up. Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it's a matter of life or death.

4) Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die soon so what's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"
During the fourth stage, the dying person begins to understand the certainty of death. Because of this, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time crying and grieving. This process allows the dying person to disconnect from things of love and affection. It is not recommended to attempt to cheer up an individual who is in this stage. It is an important time for grieving that must be processed. Depression could be referred to as the dress rehearsal for the 'aftermath'. It is a kind of acceptance with emotional attachment. It's natural to feel sadness, regret, fear, and uncertainty when going through this stage. Feeling those emotions shows that the person has begun to accept the situation.

5) Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."
In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with their mortality, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. This stage varies according to the person's situation. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.

BowlenBall
01-17-2013, 03:27 AM
Just want you to know that I'm here for you, Mile High 81 (albeit in a detached and nonjudgemental way).

extralife
01-17-2013, 03:29 AM
I know there is the 100 post rule

I know there is the 100 post rule

100 post rule

100

That One Guy
01-17-2013, 06:27 AM
It just means we don't have to feel bad for him when he's at that press conference announcing his retirement and his fingers are bare. He had his chance.

That said, 96.4% of Broncos fans and 99.7% of NFL fans will never remember Champ had a bad game if they even knew it. They'll remember the guy that mistimed the ball and was out of position. Then maybe they'll remember kneeling with 30 seconds and two timeouts.

loborugger
01-17-2013, 06:33 AM
I would answer this question with another question.

Did performances in Super Bowl 22 or 24 affect John Elway's place in Broncos history?

BowlenBall
01-17-2013, 06:47 AM
I would answer this question with another question.

Did performances in Super Bowl 22 or 24 affect John Elway's place in Broncos history?

Ah, the Socratic method.

Gutless Drunk
01-17-2013, 07:34 AM
Maybe it puts an end to the endless "Champ really wants a championship" stories?

He had a chance and he completely blew it.

bronco militia
01-17-2013, 07:39 AM
he's still the Broncos best CB since Louis Wright

NFLBRONCO
01-17-2013, 08:35 AM
I'm ready to put Champ in Manning's catagory.

No brainer 1st ballot HOF players but, avg playoff players. Still glad they are Bronco's

Tombstone RJ
01-17-2013, 08:45 AM
I know there is the 100 post rule but i think this is an interesting question?

I know that everybody can have a bad game but i mean really:

You are a Hall of fame CB you have no ring and every shot can be your last. And you play a game like this?

Yes, especially if the Broncos don't win a SB with him and/or Manning on the team. Absolutely it does. And good question!

wolf754life
01-17-2013, 09:08 AM
there is a BIG reason why this guy has never played in a superbowl

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-17-2013, 09:28 AM
All it shows is he's older. Cannot do everything he used to in the same way/speed. All HOFers get older and decline. And yes he is declining.

Cito Pelon
01-17-2013, 01:25 PM
Hard to say. Two of the three biggest games of his career - the AFCCG in Mile High, and now this last one at Mile High - he got burnt. The Div game at Mile High in 2006 against NE he played very well, but lost the ball when Ben Watson hammered him about the 5 yd line. Could have been called a touchback and NE ball at the 20. The play was reviewed because the ball went out of the endzone after Champ fumbled.

He got burnt pretty bad in the AFCCG against Pitt, gave up two passing TD's in the redzone, missed that easy pick six in Pitt territory.

The good teams that are feeling bold are gonna go after him if he's one-on-one in a playoff game. They have to challenge him on the road, and if they're successful it gives their entire team a boost.

lonestar
01-17-2013, 01:41 PM
Seriously?

enjolras
01-17-2013, 02:04 PM
I'm ready to put Champ in Manning's catagory.

No brainer 1st ballot HOF players but, avg playoff players. Still glad they are Bronco's

Oh for **** sakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n74qajrx4b4

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Cito Pelon
01-17-2013, 02:24 PM
The ball went out of the end zone after Champ was hit, hence the review. He was called out of bounds on the field, and the call on the field was upheld. Dude had no idea he was gonna get hammered, poor field awareness. That was one of the worst hammerings I've ever seen a DB get nailed with on a 100 yd return.

Gutless Drunk
01-17-2013, 03:01 PM
"I'm told future Hall of Fame corner Champ Bailey remains despondent -- a word used to describe him by a source -- over getting torched by Baltimore's Torrey Smith. There are some people (including me) that practically worship Bailey and were utterly stunned at how easily he was getting beat. It was as if someone flipped a switch and he was suddenly old.

Some people will claim they saw this coming but anyone who does isn't being truthful. I spoke to Bailey extensively this past summer, as well as teammates, and there was no hint of a drop-off.

So what does Bailey do now? Bailey is a 12-time Pro Bowler and lock for the Hall, but -- at least for the moment -- I'm told he has no immediate plans to retire"
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21569791/tenpoint-stance-brady-piles-up-records-but-montana-still-wears-crown

enjolras
01-17-2013, 03:15 PM
"I'm told future Hall of Fame corner Champ Bailey remains despondent -- a word used to describe him by a source -- over getting torched by Baltimore's Torrey Smith. There are some people (including me) that practically worship Bailey and were utterly stunned at how easily he was getting beat. It was as if someone flipped a switch and he was suddenly old.

Some people will claim they saw this coming but anyone who does isn't being truthful. I spoke to Bailey extensively this past summer, as well as teammates, and there was no hint of a drop-off.

So what does Bailey do now? Bailey is a 12-time Pro Bowler and lock for the Hall, but -- at least for the moment -- I'm told he has no immediate plans to retire"
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21569791/tenpoint-stance-brady-piles-up-records-but-montana-still-wears-crown

I really hope he moves to Safety. Not because I think he's not a top-5 corner in this league (he is), but because he can do MUCH MORE good for this team from that spot.

That One Guy
01-17-2013, 03:30 PM
"I'm told future Hall of Fame corner Champ Bailey remains despondent -- a word used to describe him by a source -- over getting torched by Baltimore's Torrey Smith. There are some people (including me) that practically worship Bailey and were utterly stunned at how easily he was getting beat. It was as if someone flipped a switch and he was suddenly old.

Some people will claim they saw this coming but anyone who does isn't being truthful. I spoke to Bailey extensively this past summer, as well as teammates, and there was no hint of a drop-off.

So what does Bailey do now? Bailey is a 12-time Pro Bowler and lock for the Hall, but -- at least for the moment -- I'm told he has no immediate plans to retire"
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21569791/tenpoint-stance-brady-piles-up-records-but-montana-still-wears-crown

Good. He's one of the only leadership personalities on that D and that D didn't come ready to play. He should take it to heart, reflect on what he could've done differently, and come back next year with a fire that'll spread to all his teammates.

That One Guy
01-17-2013, 03:32 PM
I really hope he moves to Safety. Not because I think he's not a top-5 corner in this league (he is), but because he can do MUCH MORE good for this team from that spot.

I merely want him to play in whichever position allows them to get the best 11 on the field. If he's demanding he be a corner just because he doesn't want to admit he's aging, I hope this game makes him open to whatever is most beneficial and helps him recognize the human nature of everyone. I don't necessarily think he's a liability at corner, however. He just isn't what he once was.

extralife
01-17-2013, 03:50 PM
everything about this thread makes me want to slap you people

Cito Pelon
01-17-2013, 03:51 PM
I merely want him to play in whichever position allows them to get the best 11 on the field. If he's demanding he be a corner just because he doesn't want to admit he's aging, I hope this game makes him open to whatever is most beneficial and helps him recognize the human nature of everyone. I don't necessarily think he's a liability at corner, however. He just isn't what he once was.

Dude is an LCB, why they had Tony Carter at LCB, I don't know. Champ can maybe beat himself up a little bit because he didn't jam Torrey Smith in the slot, but Champ isn't a slot CB, he's an LCB. Carter is the slot CB, but the staff had their roles reversed. Maybe Champ is despondent because he said he would shadow Torrey Smith everywhere and convinced the staff he could do so.

Chris
01-17-2013, 04:02 PM
How much do you wanna bet Champ comes back with a nasty vengeance next season? Carter isn't good enough at least right to step into a #2 role.

That said, I wasn't a huge fan of Champ's reaction after the game (not beating himself up). Maybe he was just keeping himself to himself.

TheReverend
01-17-2013, 04:14 PM
I really hope he moves to Safety. Not because I think he's not a top-5 corner in this league (he is), but because he can do MUCH MORE good for this team from that spot.

Definitely not top 5. Still very good, but probably not even top 10

elsid13
01-17-2013, 04:22 PM
Champ place will not change, is a HOF corner that we have been very lucky to have on our team. Plus improve pass rush next season will help him play corner if he really has lost any speed.

jerseyboiler120
01-17-2013, 04:35 PM
I don't think it will change his place in Bronco or NFL history. He's had a game here and there like this over the past few seasons, but most corners do. It does show his age, but at the same time every good game he plays defies his age.

What angers me most though is the first td never should have been an offensive play for the ravens. The refs gave them a freebie first down on that grossly ticky-tack PI call on Carter.

enjolras
01-17-2013, 09:57 PM
I don't think it will change his place in Bronco or NFL history. He's had a game here and there like this over the past few seasons, but most corners do. It does show his age, but at the same time every good game he plays defies his age.

What angers me most though is the first td never should have been an offensive play for the ravens. The refs gave them a freebie first down on that grossly ticky-tack PI call on Carter.

I don't think it was even ticky-tack. I think it was straight up wrong. Corners have the right to any spot they wish as long as they don't impede the receiver. Carter immediately established textbook position and carried it through the play.

The ONLY thing you can quibble about was the fact he was turned the wrong direction early in the play. However he corrected without initiating contact and simply carried his position through the play.

It was *perfect* coverage and a terrible call.

Cito Pelon
01-17-2013, 10:17 PM
I don't think it was even ticky-tack. I think it was straight up wrong. Corners have the right to any spot they wish as long as they don't impede the receiver. Carter immediately established textbook position and carried it through the play.

The ONLY thing you can quibble about was the fact he was turned the wrong direction early in the play. However he corrected without initiating contact and simply carried his position through the play.

It was *perfect* coverage and a terrible call.

The question to me is why is Tony Carter playing LCB? That's Champs spot. I didn't see Tony Carter playing LCB the entire regular season, then all of a sudden Carter is there and Champ is playing slot. WTF?

enjolras
01-18-2013, 12:49 AM
The question to me is why is Tony Carter playing LCB? That's Champs spot. I didn't see Tony Carter playing LCB the entire regular season, then all of a sudden Carter is there and Champ is playing slot. WTF?

I wish they hadn't stolen game rewind from me...cause I'd love to cite examples.

Carter played all over the field this season actually. I think it has a lot to do with how good he was that you didn't notice. It was much more obvious on the coaches film.

Probably the biggest change this year is that they were playing a LOT of man-to-man and they were doing it based on matchups. Generally JDR stuck Champ on the other teams best receiver and then found the best matchup for Carter and Harris. Every corner (outside of zone) was really playing all over the field.

Cito Pelon
01-18-2013, 12:57 AM
I wish they hadn't stolen game rewind from me...cause I'd love to cite examples.

Carter played all over the field this season actually. I think it has a lot to do with how good he was that you didn't notice. It was much more obvious on the coaches film.

Probably the biggest change this year is that they were playing a LOT of man-to-man and they were doing it based on matchups. Generally JDR stuck Champ on the other teams best receiver and then found the best matchup for Carter and Harris. Every corner (outside of zone) was really playing all over the field.

I can't remember any time Tony Carter played LCB until last Saturday. If you can find it that's great.

tsiguy96
01-18-2013, 03:47 AM
why was he lined up on him anyway? chris harris is much faster and honestly better right now on downfield throws. champ will remove a possession receiver from the game with the best in the NFL. coaches get confused?

bpc
01-18-2013, 06:14 AM
Give me a break. The guy had a bad game. He however also had a great year. Credit to T. Smith for making plays. A bad game does not define a career, look at Elway's post season record. Hell, we could have three more super bowl trophy's sitting at Dove Valley.

OrangeSe7en
01-18-2013, 05:34 PM
"I'm told future Hall of Fame corner Champ Bailey remains despondent -- a word used to describe him by a source -- over getting torched by Baltimore's Torrey Smith. There are some people (including me) that practically worship Bailey and were utterly stunned at how easily he was getting beat. It was as if someone flipped a switch and he was suddenly old.

Some people will claim they saw this coming but anyone who does isn't being truthful. I spoke to Bailey extensively this past summer, as well as teammates, and there was no hint of a drop-off.

So what does Bailey do now? Bailey is a 12-time Pro Bowler and lock for the Hall, but -- at least for the moment -- I'm told he has no immediate plans to retire"
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21569791/tenpoint-stance-brady-piles-up-records-but-montana-still-wears-crown

When youre old, the cold weather is less forgiving. The joints and muscles don't react as well. Maybe this explains (to some degree) why Champ looked so bad.


But yeah, he blew it. And yes, it will affect his place.

OrangeSe7en
01-18-2013, 05:35 PM
I would answer this question with another question.

Did performances in Super Bowl 22 or 24 affect John Elway's place in Broncos history?

That's not even close to being comparable. Nice try though.

OrangeSe7en
01-18-2013, 05:38 PM
Give me a break. The guy had a bad game. He however also had a great year. Credit to T. Smith for making plays. A bad game does not define a career, look at Elway's post season record. Hell, we could have three more super bowl trophy's sitting at Dove Valley.

People need to stop mentioning Elway. Elway had games like "the drive" en route to SBs. Champ doesnt even have that.

Champs biggest moment in the playoffs was almost fumbling the ball away on a long INT return where he was almost ran down from behind by a TE.

So, just shut up with the Elway talk.

Broncos dude
01-18-2013, 06:03 PM
Give me a break. The guy had a bad game. He however also had a great year. Credit to T. Smith for making plays. A bad game does not define a career, look at Elway's post season record. Hell, we could have three more super bowl trophy's sitting at Dove Valley.

No joke. My first game in 04 against the radiers in denver he had the worst game, just like last weekend. He will be fine

BroncoFox
01-18-2013, 06:29 PM
He played amazing all year. There is a stat that isn't much heard about, but it's a stat that measures CBs specifically. How many throws against them, how many yards gained, catches and scores, etc. Champ was #1 in the NFL this year.

He had a bad game. He really had two bad plays. He REALLY only had one bad play. He got burned once. The Ravens got VERY lucky with their bomb and hope for the best approach. Their receiver made an amazing play. Champ wasn't even burned - he was right there. There was a fair degree of luck on the second TD catch.

Champ I'm sure feels he played a horrible game. But to hear fans talk about his place in Broncos history because of ONE GAME? You guys suck as fans, if you think that.

OrangeSe7en
01-18-2013, 06:39 PM
He played amazing all year. There is a stat that isn't much heard about, but it's a stat that measures CBs specifically. How many throws against them, how many yards gained, catches and scores, etc. Champ was #1 in the NFL this year.

He had a bad game. He really had two bad plays. He REALLY only had one bad play. He got burned once. The Ravens got VERY lucky with their bomb and hope for the best approach. Their receiver made an amazing play. Champ wasn't even burned - he was right there. There was a fair degree of luck on the second TD catch.

Champ I'm sure feels he played a horrible game. But to hear fans talk about his place in Broncos history because of ONE GAME? You guys suck as fans, if you think that.

Good grief. Enough with the apoligists. He was lit up. It happened. We all saw it. Deal with it.

bpc
01-18-2013, 06:42 PM
People need to stop mentioning Elway. Elway had games like "the drive" en route to SBs. Champ doesnt even have that.

Champs biggest moment in the playoffs was almost fumbling the ball away on a long INT return where he was almost ran down from behind by a TE.

So, just shut up with the Elway talk.

Did you say *almost* fumbled? As in he didn't and it helped us knock off the defending sb champs? Clown argument, nice try though.

KipCorrington25
01-18-2013, 06:43 PM
He was terrible on a big stage of course it will be remembered but now the onus is on him to bounce back strong next year.

OrangeSe7en
01-18-2013, 06:46 PM
I don't think it was even ticky-tack. I think it was straight up wrong. Corners have the right to any spot they wish as long as they don't impede the receiver. Carter immediately established textbook position and carried it through the play.

The ONLY thing you can quibble about was the fact he was turned the wrong direction early in the play. However he corrected without initiating contact and simply carried his position through the play.

It was *perfect* coverage and a terrible call.

If you have the WR behind you, you're allowed to use throttle control. What you can't do is stick out your arms. But you can run as slowly as you want and make the WR go around you.

OrangeSe7en
01-18-2013, 06:48 PM
Did you say *almost* fumbled? As in he didn't and it helped us knock off the defending sb champs? Clown argument, nice try though.

No, "almost fumbled" as in, he might have fumbled. The replay couldnt say either way. That doesnt change the fact that he was clowned by a TE who chased him down from behind. Keep swinging (and missing), sport.

cutthemdown
01-18-2013, 06:58 PM
It does in my eyes. Champ choked bigtime. He saved his worst for a huge game which isn't what great players do.

TomServo
01-18-2013, 11:31 PM
love champ but he has lost a step or two..duh. he got burnt and embarrased on the biggest game of his career. after all his being "too proud to play saftey" crap. if he doesnt move to saftey he should retire. bailey? deion sanders? gimme Louis Wright any and everyday. and twice on sundays

TomServo
01-19-2013, 01:18 AM
corner saftey, safety corner

extralife
01-19-2013, 01:36 AM
love champ but he has lost a step or two..duh. he got burnt and embarrased on the biggest game of his career. after all his being "too proud to play saftey" crap. if he doesnt move to saftey he should retire. bailey? deion sanders? gimme Louis Wright any and everyday. and twice on sundays

why are you so stupid?

should every corner who gets burned on TWO ROUTES over the course of A SEASON "move to safety" or retire? boo-hoo, Champ isn't as fast as Torrey Smith. how many corners in the NFL are? a handful? if you're lucky? what were your feelings on Champ Bailey two weeks ago?

here, this should be amusing: what would moving to safety do, specifically? tell me something that you know about football that you didn't read in a newspaper.

(here's one for you: Champ was expecting inside help on the first TD. he didn't get it. go watch the play.)

TomServo
01-19-2013, 01:52 AM
all i know is he got flamed right off the line of scrimmage. i said i loved the guy but his days as CB are Over. he cant run with a fast reciever. that is all. the reciever ran right past him. thats all there is to it.
i suspect your too young to even know who loius wright is but he was better than champ.

extralife
01-19-2013, 01:56 AM
I guess Chris Harris and Tony Carter's days as corners are over, too. After all, they can't run with Torrey Smith. herp derp.

TomServo
01-19-2013, 02:01 AM
well i hope they can cause champ cant keep up anymore. herp blah blah. bailey cant play man on man anymore. whats the mystery?

TomServo
01-19-2013, 02:02 AM
time waits for no NFL corner not even for champ bailey.

TomServo
01-19-2013, 02:10 AM
i wonder if the team was saying herp derp on the sidelines as two long touchdowns sailed past champ? after all the reportes said that champ "had that side of the field" pride comes before the fall