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View Full Version : 30 seconds left in 4th. Knee or go for it?


Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 01:56 PM
So fox says he'd do it the same 10 out of 10 times. Who else agrees with him?

stbernard
01-14-2013, 02:01 PM
Play to win. Always.

KevinJames
01-14-2013, 02:03 PM
kneel it especially with the new OT rules. You play for OT if you got a good D and good O.

FireFly
01-14-2013, 02:08 PM
I've thought this all year! I don't even see the benefit of taking a knee 30 seconds before half time!?

You have the ball, you have time (+time outs) - why wouldn't you!? You're just going to have to fight for the ball later anyhow!

Smiling Assassin27
01-14-2013, 02:14 PM
So fox says he'd do it the same 10 out of 10 times. Who else agrees with him?

I agree that HE'D do it 10 out of 10 times...lol

I think you gotta open up some, even get it to the 40 or so and let Osweiler chuck one into the endzone at worst. But if you can get 30-40 yards with your timeouts, at least give prater a shot at kicking a long one. Granted, he'd be kicking a block of ice, but i'd try it. ravens had no timeouts left, so they couldnt stop the clock anyway.

2KBack
01-14-2013, 02:16 PM
Fake kneel down to pass

oubronco
01-14-2013, 02:31 PM
You play to win the game

TheChamp24
01-14-2013, 02:35 PM
This, I didn't understand at all, and made me feel like we completely had no faith in the offense to a point.
30 seconds, you have 2 timeouts. Say need 45 yards at a shot at a field goal attempt that is makeable.
It just screamed, we can't throw it down the field, and we're scared of turning the ball over, so we'll hope to win in OT.

edog24
01-14-2013, 03:14 PM
I'm sorry, but if our HC says he would do this again 10/10 times then he is either a) stubborn to the point of being stupid or b) just plain stupid. If it's (b) then he should be looking for work today.

What is there to gain by kneeling it? It's not it's Tebow back there, you have PFM for god's sake!

Armchair Bronco
01-14-2013, 03:25 PM
Depends on the team.

If you're the Ravens, 49ers, Seahawks, Patriots, or Falcons, you go for it and try to get another score any which way you can.

If you're the Broncos, you don't, and take a knee.

End of story.

titan
01-14-2013, 03:38 PM
I was at the game and I can understand running it on 3rd and 7 to take time off the clock, but I don't understand taking a knee with 30 seconds to go, with a hall of fame qb on your side. 10 times out of 10 - bad call. You play to win.

broncocalijohn
01-14-2013, 03:40 PM
Fake kneel down to pass

Thank you Bernie Kosar.

spdirty
01-14-2013, 03:40 PM
Depends on the team.

If you're the Ravens, 49ers, Seahawks, Patriots, or Falcons, you go for it and try to get another score any which way you can.

If you're the Broncos, you don't, and take a knee.

End of story.

Because your in shock. And this isn't a football game anymore where you have one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, as well as a top 10 wideout. It's now turned into a prize fight where you got dinged and just want to tuck tail and run and hide until the bell rings.

John Fox will never win a Super Bowl.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 09:11 PM
I bet you guys in the stands were in disbelief. At the time I rewinding the tv to see if I actually saw what I thought I had seen.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-14-2013, 09:17 PM
That was the point in the game when I knew for sure we were going to lose. B!tch move.

Crushaholic
01-14-2013, 09:18 PM
The way our defense was playing, I thought OT was a tricky proposition (and, it turned out to be just that). There had to be some plays that could have placed us in field goal range. I had a feeling that we were going to lose, at that exact moment. Forget the Rahim Moore flub. We STILL could have actually WON THE GAME in regulation...

schaaf
01-14-2013, 09:22 PM
Kneel it. Prater had a real strong headwind coming from that direction in his face and he had also proven that he tries to make contact with the football a half yard behind it.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 09:27 PM
Watching the game again it was apparent that they were not preparing for anything other than kneeling. I missed it the fist time but they were showing shots of PFM just standing there in his cap while the extra point was being made. Not huddled up or going over plays. They were caught with their pants down and weren't prepared to do squat.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 09:28 PM
getting awful close to that magical 97.2 mark.

RaiderH8r
01-14-2013, 09:30 PM
The way our defense was playing, I thought OT was a tricky proposition (and, it turned out to be just that). There had to be some plays that could have placed us in field goal range. I had a feeling that we were going to lose, at that exact moment. Forget the Rahim Moore flub. We STILL could have actually WON THE GAME in regulation...

Exactly. If our defense had been playing worth a **** the game would haven already been out of reach. Kneeling just told me we were going to lose. Harbaugh had to have been relieved when Manning didn't go no huddle with two timeouts to win it. Time outs mean we can throw anywhere on the field. DT can turn any p,ay into a 30 yard gain or more and Stoke and Decker can chew up 15 yds per pass on comeback routes. Why hire the $96 million man to watch him hand it off and cry uncle going into OT?

Vine
01-14-2013, 09:30 PM
Watching the game again it was apparent that they were not preparing for anything other than kneeling. I missed it the fist time but they were showing shots of PFM just standing there in his cap while the extra point was being made. Not huddled up or going over plays. They were caught with their pants down and weren't prepared to do squat.

Not a valid excuse. Once that td was scored, it should have been time to get your ****ing ass mentally, into the game, as the situation dictated.

BowlenBall
01-14-2013, 11:23 PM
If Tebow is my quarterback? Take the knee.

If Manning is my quarterback? It seems obvious to go for it.

The frustrating thing is that Fox believes he's playing the percentages, which is fine if he is, in fact correct. But in freezing weather, playing against a tired, gassed team at altitude, two time-outs in your pocket, and a kicker with a big-time leg? The smart money says you try to close out that game then and there. As far as I can tell, Fox was playing AGAINST the percentages in this case.

BroncoBeavis
01-14-2013, 11:36 PM
If Tebow is my quarterback? Take the knee.

If Manning is my quarterback? It seems obvious to go for it.

The frustrating thing is that Fox believes he's playing the percentages, which is fine if he is, in fact correct. But in freezing weather, playing against a tired, gassed team at altitude, two time-outs in your pocket, and a kicker with a big-time leg? The smart money says you try to close out that game then and there. As far as I can tell, Fox was playing AGAINST the percentages in this case.

Dumb thing is that yes something bad could happen that costs you the game. But once you hit OT that same fact is true on every play. You're not avoiding any risk by taking a knee. You're just giving away your first opportunity.

BowlenBall
01-14-2013, 11:43 PM
Interesting sequence of events to close out the Atlanta-Seattle game the next day:


Atlanta Falcons at 00:31 (Seattle 28, Atlanta 27)

7-R.Longwell kicks 71 yards from SEA 35 to ATL -6. 32-Jz. Rodgers to ATL 28 for 34 yards (31-K.Chancellor).

1-10-ATL 28 (:25) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass deep left to 83-H.Douglas to 50 for 22 yards (39-B.Browner).

Timeout #2 by ATL at 00:19.
1-10-(:19) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SEA 31 for 19 yards (29-E.Thomas).

Timeout #3 by ATL at 00:13.

Timeout #1 by SEA at 00:13.

1-10-SEA 31 (:13) 71-K.Biermann and 79-M.Johnson reported in as eligible. 3-M.Bryant 49 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-47-J.Harris, Holder-5-M.Bosher.

Seattle 28, Atlanta 30


Aaaaaaaaand that's why Atlanta is still playing, we're not.

Mile High 81
01-15-2013, 05:38 AM
From the DP

According to Keith Goldner at the excellent Advanced NFL Stats, since the 2000 NFL season there have been 21 games similar to the Broncos’ situation against the Ravens (a drive that starts with between 20-40 seconds remaining; the offense has two or more timeouts; the offense has either a deficit of 3-or-fewer points or the game is tied).

In those 21 situations, the offense scored a field goal four times. Not a lot. But only one offense turned the ball over and eventually lost the game (Donovan McNabb’s INT for Philadelphia against Washington in 2009). In 16 games, the offense missed a field goal or didn’t get a kick off

So that means
4 Times the team Win
16 Times nothing happend
1 Time the lose

So Mister "we play for the odds" Fox.

You have a 96 % Chance of winning or NOT Losing the Game. And a 4 % Chance of losing.

What do you do ?

Mile High 81
01-15-2013, 05:39 AM
From the DP

According to Keith Goldner at the excellent Advanced NFL Stats, since the 2000 NFL season there have been 21 games similar to the Broncos’ situation against the Ravens (a drive that starts with between 20-40 seconds remaining; the offense has two or more timeouts; the offense has either a deficit of 3-or-fewer points or the game is tied).

In those 21 situations, the offense scored a field goal four times. Not a lot. But only one offense turned the ball over and eventually lost the game (Donovan McNabb’s INT for Philadelphia against Washington in 2009). In 16 games, the offense missed a field goal or didn’t get a kick off

So that means
4 Times the team Win
16 Times nothing happend
1 Time the lose

So Mister "we play for the odds" Fox.

You have a 96 % Chance of winning or NOT Losing the Game. And a 4 % Chance of losing.

What do you do ?

OrangeCrush2724
01-15-2013, 06:12 AM
"You watch a (70)-yard bomb go over your head, there's a certain amount of shock value," Fox said. "A little bit like a prize fighter who gets a right cross on the chin at the end of a round, you're looking to get out of the round."

-John Fox

Which means we are not mentally tough. We get hit, and we need to lay low and need to get out of the quarter and collect our self instead of hitting them back in the mouth. He coached scarred. And because of that he will never win. This guy was the reason we lost. I will take Raheem Moore any day over this clown. Atleast with Moore, I know the kid will try to do better and learn from his huge mistake. But this is Fox being Fox. A conservative/scarred coach.

BroncoBeavis
01-15-2013, 08:26 AM
From the DP



So that means
4 Times the team Win
16 Times nothing happend
1 Time the lose

So Mister "we play for the odds" Fox.

You have a 96 % Chance of winning or NOT Losing the Game. And a 4 % Chance of losing.

What do you do ?

You take 3 or 4 Aleve. All those numbers made Foxy's head hurt. :)

RaiderH8r
01-15-2013, 01:59 PM
"You watch a (70)-yard bomb go over your head, there's a certain amount of shock value," Fox said. "A little bit like a prize fighter who gets a right cross on the chin at the end of a round, you're looking to get out of the round."

-John Fox

Which means we are not mentally tough. We get hit, and we need to lay low and need to get out of the quarter and collect our self instead of hitting them back in the mouth. He coached scarred. And because of that he will never win. This guy was the reason we lost. I will take Raheem Moore any day over this clown. Atleast with Moore, I know the kid will try to do better and learn from his huge mistake. But this is Fox being Fox. A conservative/scarred coach.

That sounds like some **** John Ralston would say.

Hulamau
01-15-2013, 02:16 PM
Yesterday I heard the sorriest excuse ever for taking the knee and killing any last chance to kick a FG for the win even after the Cluster Fork that is Rahim Moore!

Fox sat there and said with a straight face the reason they had PMFM take a freakin' knee with 32 seconds and two time outs left with the game tied was because the team was 'shell shocked' and too stunned to play a little offense and complete a couple passes for the win!

Mind you it was the DEFENSE that was the SHELL- SHOCKEE's .. not the offense who had been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the D to wrap up the victory gift they had giving on the 91 yard TD drive for the 7 point lead!

They were not out there running around and laying a huge egg! They may have been a bit shocked for 20 seconds or so followed by being mad as hell that Moore (and Foxy before him) put the whole team in this position.

These are grown men and are suppose to be warriors for cryin' out loud! Manning could easily huddle the O together during the TV commercial before the Ravens kickoff with one simple message.

'Okay guys we're going do to them just what they just did to us!! Everyone focus, lock and load ... No mistakes allowed and go kick arse, CATCH the damn ball and block like your life depended on it!'

That's all he would have to say to have blood and spit coming out of those guys eyeballs!

If the D needed a breather to regroup after that. .fine .. I might even buy that a little . .but not the O who had been twiddling their thumbs waiting just in case they had to do a rescue mission!

This is the kind of weak-minded excuse ... 'playing not to lose' mentality that I don't think Fox is capable of seeing through and changing even a little bit?

I like Fox and he brings many a good things to the table and brings stability and is good as a players coach ... but this late game decision making on offense in particular which has never been his forte MUST be reassigned to whomever the new OC is!!

Elway went along with what Fox said but it wasn't a strong defense of Fox's position and seemed more because he was in the 'Fox' hole with Fox at the moment.

go_broncos
01-15-2013, 03:03 PM
"You watch a (70)-yard bomb go over your head, there's a certain amount of shock value," Fox said. "A little bit like a prize fighter who gets a right cross on the chin at the end of a round, you're looking to get out of the round."

-John Fox

Which means we are not mentally tough. We get hit, and we need to lay low and need to get out of the quarter and collect our self instead of hitting them back in the mouth. He coached scarred. And because of that he will never win. This guy was the reason we lost. I will take Raheem Moore any day over this clown. Atleast with Moore, I know the kid will try to do better and learn from his huge mistake. But this is Fox being Fox. A conservative/scarred coach.

Fox plays scared and is conservative.
That's the reason we didn't try to pass the ball..He was afraid that something bad might have happen if we throw the ball.
Rest of coaches and players take that attitude from Fox..
We deserved to lose the game.I am worried that he will have the same attitude when he coaches us next year.

go_broncos
01-15-2013, 03:09 PM
"You watch a (70)-yard bomb go over your head, there's a certain amount of shock value," Fox said. "A little bit like a prize fighter who gets a right cross on the chin at the end of a round, you're looking to get out of the round."

-John Fox

Which means we are not mentally tough. We get hit, and we need to lay low and need to get out of the quarter and collect our self instead of hitting them back in the mouth. He coached scarred. And because of that he will never win. This guy was the reason we lost. I will take Raheem Moore any day over this clown. Atleast with Moore, I know the kid will try to do better and learn from his huge mistake. But this is Fox being Fox. A conservative/scarred coach.

After reading the above statement, i am depressed.
There is a reason why coaches like Norv, Marty lose games.
They sit on small leads and try running the ball..

CEH
01-15-2013, 03:24 PM
Fox is John Madden mentally

Remember Brady's first Super Bowl Madden saying Brady's going to take a knee and play for OT

How did that turn out

What QB takes a knee?

Broncos dude
01-15-2013, 04:15 PM
I agree with fox you take a knee in that situation. Atlanta is down and has no choice, and its 70 degrees not 5 below. Peyton Manning would be throwing a fit if he was confident in his game but he just didnt look good the longer the game went imo. Moore and del rio cost em the game

Bronco Yoda
01-16-2013, 10:03 AM
What I want to know is what Elway is going to do about this. I know Elway said all the PC things to back the coach. That's his job in this situation. But what's really being said behind closed doors. This wasn't just ONE bad call but several.

Combine first half kneel and second half kneel down and you've got 1:07 & 5 time outs.... and you just kneel it down. You don't even try. Not to even speak 3&7.

Holy Shiz! Did he just give up?