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View Full Version : Why should Rahim Moore be back next year?


spdirty
01-14-2013, 09:45 AM
After effectively costing us the season, and destroying everything that team and coaching staff worked so hard all year for.

He is despised by at least 90% of the fanbase. Probably worse than McDaniels.

What do you think the coaches think about him?

What do you think the players think of him?

Where is his head right now? I saw a poster say he was in a restaurant yesterday staring into outer space just zoned out.

Even if he comes back to be the next Ed Reed, he will NEVER live this down here. 20 years from now people will remember this and remember his name with disgust. Perry and Lilly haven't lived down their **** ups for ****s sakes. And Lilly was 26 years ago, Perry 16.

I just don't know how you can justify bringing him back after this.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 09:49 AM
I never want to see him in the O&B again.

Gutless Drunk
01-14-2013, 09:50 AM
"What do you think the players think of him?"

Sandy Clough just intimated on radio that privately offensive players are furious at his selfish play. So much so, that he thinks it will be a "schism" situation and Moore should be done here.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2013, 09:51 AM
It was a horrible mistake, but this sort of **** is character building. He's a good, young player with upside. You dont get rid of him. You see how he reacts to this.

Domostick
01-14-2013, 09:51 AM
Well I hope you want to get rid of Champ Bailey and Manning then too because they had just as much of an effect on the outcome as Moore. That's why I'll let John Elway sit back and make those decisions.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2013, 09:52 AM
"What do you think the players think of him?"

Sandy Clough just intimated on radio that privately offensive players are furious at his selfish play. So much so, that he thinks it will be a "schism" situation and Moore should be done here.

I dont understand why it was "selfish." It was DUMB. You cant let a guy get behind you like that, but selfish is an odd word to use.

spdirty
01-14-2013, 09:53 AM
Well I hope you want to get rid of Champ Bailey and Manning then too because they had just as much of an effect on the outcome as Moore. That's why I'll let John Elway sit back and make those decisions.

No they didn't. NOBODY is more responsible for this loss than Rahim Moore.

ludo21
01-14-2013, 09:55 AM
serious?

if the players hate him, then I agree get rid of him. But if the lockerroom is fine then let the kid learn and move on.

He had a great year and is still improving.

go_broncos
01-14-2013, 09:56 AM
Rahim moore...Why did you do this mistake??

Gutless Drunk
01-14-2013, 09:57 AM
I dont understand why it was "selfish." It was DUMB. You cant let a guy get behind you like that, but selfish is an odd word to use.

He was going for the pick to be hero. That's what Moore meant when he said "I got too happy" That's what Clough intimated the other players think.

Pick Six
01-14-2013, 09:58 AM
Ummm...no...

Rahim Moore did NOT cost us the game. Poor playcalling, sub-par offensive play, and poor officiating cost us the game....

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 09:58 AM
I dont understand why it was "selfish." It was DUMB. You cant let a guy get behind you like that, but selfish is an odd word to use.

Because, his play completely ignored the game situation (and what was best for the team) and he opted instead for a grandstand play that it turns out, he couldn't make.

Chris
01-14-2013, 10:01 AM
I think the other players should be looking at their own ****ty performances (not you Wolfe, Vick, Woodyard, Harris, Adams, Stokely) before looking at any one thing in that awful game that cost us the W.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2013, 10:01 AM
Because, his play completely ignored the game situation (and what was best for the team) and he opted instead for a grandstand play that it turns out, he couldn't make.

I still think thats dumb, not selfish. He made a snap decision in the moment. A selfish play would have been for him to run away because he didn't want to get hurt because he's in a contract year or something. I dont think he was making a conscious choice in the moment.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2013, 10:02 AM
I think the other players should be looking at their own ****ty performances (not you Wolfe, Vick, Woodyard, Harris, Adams, Stokely) before looking at any one thing in that awful game that cost us the W.

I wonder what Stoke's future is with us. Still looks like he's got it to me. But we could use some more speed out of the slot. Is there room on this roster for both?

24champ
01-14-2013, 10:05 AM
By spdirty's stupid logic, lets get rid of Kuper, Champ, Manning, Von Miller, Dumervil, Woodyard, Prater because of this game. Fire this staff as well for their conservative game play throughout the game and in OT.

It was a team effort in that loss, nobody showed up except Holliday.

B-Large
01-14-2013, 10:11 AM
First, hes young guy with upside who played pretty well this season
Second, Rahim will beat himself up to a pulp this offseason... and he should... but I hope it motivates him to step up big next year and be the guy who wins that close game with a big play, rather than be the liability
Third, I bet he never underplays a deep throw in the Dvision round playoff game again... lol... so we have that going for us...

elsid13
01-14-2013, 10:17 AM
Some folks need to remember it is just a football game and not a life and death situation. Kid made a mistake on the job, something that we all do. He will be back and will learn from the mistake which will make him a better player.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 10:19 AM
I still think thats dumb, not selfish. He made a snap decision in the moment. A selfish play would have been for him to run away because he didn't want to get hurt because he's in a contract year or something. I dont think he was making a conscious choice in the moment.

No. It was waaaay beyond dumb. Dumb would have been tackling the receiver while the ball was in the air, which still would have been better than playing short and going for the ball.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-14-2013, 10:20 AM
No. It was waaaay beyond dumb. Dumb would have been tackling the receiver while the ball was in the air, which still would have been better than playing short and going for the ball.

Oh its the dumbest thing possibly imaginable. I still dont think its selfish. Just really ****ing dumb.

Smiling Assassin27
01-14-2013, 10:21 AM
Some folks need to remember it is just a football game and not a life and death situation. Kid made a mistake on the job, something that we all do. He will be back and will learn from the mistake which will make him a better player.


I agree, Mr. Buckner.

Tombstone RJ
01-14-2013, 10:21 AM
After effectively costing us the season, and destroying everything that team and coaching staff worked so hard all year for.

He is despised by at least 90% of the fanbase. Probably worse than McDaniels.

What do you think the coaches think about him?

What do you think the players think of him?

Where is his head right now? I saw a poster say he was in a restaurant yesterday staring into outer space just zoned out.

Even if he comes back to be the next Ed Reed, he will NEVER live this down here. 20 years from now people will remember this and remember his name with disgust. Perry and Lilly haven't lived down their **** ups for ****s sakes. And Lilly was 26 years ago, Perry 16.

I just don't know how you can justify bringing him back after this.

Absolutey you bring him back!!!!!!!!!! The very fact that he cares tells me he is worth bringing back. I hate it when the Broncos give up on young players too soon and they go to other teams and have success.

Moore made a mistake, the good news is he should have the opportunities to make up for this mistake by playing more games for the Broncos in the future.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 10:21 AM
Some folks need to remember it is just a football game and not a life and death situation. Kid made a mistake on the job, something that we all do. He will be back and will learn from the mistake which will make him a better player.

And when you make a mistake of that magnitude, you get fired. Even in the "real" world.

Tombstone RJ
01-14-2013, 10:22 AM
"What do you think the players think of him?"

Sandy Clough just intimated on radio that privately offensive players are furious at his selfish play. So much so, that he thinks it will be a "schism" situation and Moore should be done here.

Sandy Clough is a turd, and a tard, and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Trust me on this, please!

Rabb
01-14-2013, 10:25 AM
I have said it before and I will say it again. When you let yourself get into that position, you deserve to lose. It rarely comes down to just one play. Yes, Moore was an idiot...but Denver as a team did plenty to **** that game up before then.

I don't want to see the kid remain a Bronco, but this wasn't just on him...not by a long shot.

bronco militia
01-14-2013, 10:29 AM
He's 22 or 23 years old. He's definitely good enough and young enough to get better. I'm sure his teammates are pissed, but they don't hold grudges like the media and fans. Pro athletes are some of the most positive people on the planet and love second chances.

edog24
01-14-2013, 10:33 AM
The only way he should come back is to polish Champ's walker.

milehighJC
01-14-2013, 10:35 AM
And when you make a mistake of that magnitude, you get fired. Even in the "real" world.

Not necessarily. A smart organization looks at the mistake in context of overall performance. Are his core skills good? Is he prone to these types of mistakes? Has he learned from this one? Is it likely to happen again?

No question that this particular mistake cost the Broncos the game in this particular situation. To his credit, he has owned it, but it is not his first ugly mistake. IT will be interesting to see what the Broncos do. I would guess he is gone too...

Beantown Bronco
01-14-2013, 10:35 AM
Despite the blame people would like to assign elsewhere for all the crap that some other players did before that play, the simple fact is: we still had a 97% chance of winning the game before that play. This is not debatable. It sucks that one play essentially decided the game and it's going to change that one player's life, possible for the rest of his life, but the facts are the facts.

There are certainly arguments for keeping him and arguments for cutting him. I don't want to make any snap judgments either way, but if half the team wants him gone that badly, I think you have to do it.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 10:42 AM
Like I say, trade him to a team in the AFCW. It could be a win/win. ;D

Fedaykin
01-14-2013, 10:56 AM
Dude didn't just make a mistake or get beat. He made a conscious decision to abandon his responsibility and go for personal glory.

Doesn't mean he's a bad person -- just means he has no business on my Broncos.

Ship him now.

ColoradoDarin
01-14-2013, 11:12 AM
Same exact things said about Rahim can be said about Manning's final pick.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 11:12 AM
It was a horrible mistake, but this sort of **** is character building. He's a good, young player with upside. You dont get rid of him. You see how he reacts to this.

this^

It was an expensive learning experience for everyone involved. Now you hope that you can recoup some of that cost with future play from a more experienced player. Of course he could just crumble from it, or not learn anything from it. Then you dump him.

He will definitely never live it down. That was a monumental boneheaded play of epic proportions.

spdirty
01-14-2013, 11:12 AM
I have said it before and I will say it again. When you let yourself get into that position, you deserve to lose. It rarely comes down to just one play. Yes, Moore was an idiot...but Denver as a team did plenty to **** that game up before then.

I don't want to see the kid remain a Bronco, but this wasn't just on him...not by a long shot.

We were a 97% favorite to win that game. That was the situation. I will take that situation every game next year. Against Kansas City, Oakland, New England, ANY game.

Despite all the bs and bad play and bad calls, we were a 97% favorite to win that game with a minute left. I will take that any game any year.

Its like fielding a ground ball bare handed and doing a spin move to look cool and ****ing up. With a runner on 3rd with 2 outs up by 1 in the LCS.

Its like a fast break all alone and trying a windmill dunk and ****ing it all up. In game 7 of the conference semis with the clock running down and it's tied.

oubronco
01-14-2013, 11:19 AM
He'll be back and hopefully with some competition

BroncoMan4ever
01-14-2013, 11:41 AM
I dont understand why it was "selfish." It was DUMB. You cant let a guy get behind you like that, but selfish is an odd word to use.

It was a mistake. The guy watched Pitta too closely while the receiver got past him. He tried to recover but didn't get there in time. In fairness he should have run through the receiver instead of going for the ball. But he had a big turnaround season and is developing into a good player. We dump him and he will be a treasure to another franchise

hades
01-14-2013, 11:48 AM
Put him on the practice squad for 8 games, Moreno improved after that happened to him!

Tombstone RJ
01-14-2013, 11:57 AM
It was a mistake. The guy watched Pitta too closely while the receiver got past him. He tried to recover but didn't get there in time. In fairness he should have run through the receiver instead of going for the ball. But he had a big turnaround season and is developing into a good player. We dump him and he will be a treasure to another franchise

Yep, he was spying Pitta and had he forgot about Pitta and just covered Jones, and then maybe Flacco chucks it to Pitta and Pitta makes a huge play for big yardage we'd all be down on Moore for that as well. Moore simply got there a little too late and he did not time his leap well and the rest is history.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Same exact things said about Rahim can be said about Manning's final pick.

The fact that both exist while not knowing what could've been cause our coaching staff was too scared and didn't trust the offense in 2 different scenarios to end the game is what hurts the most.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-14-2013, 12:05 PM
[QUOTE=Tombstone RJ;3781220]Yep, he was spying Pitta and had he forgot about Pitta and just covered Jones, and then maybe Flacco chucks it to Pitta and Pitta makes a huge play for big yardage we'd all be down on Moore for that as well. Moore simply got there a little too late and he did not time his leap well and the rest is history.[/QUOTE

Wrong. I wouldn't be as upset with a 30 yard gain. I wouldn't be as upset if Moore flat out ran into the reciever getting PI. Neither is a TD. It's pop Warner knowledge that you NEVER let someone get past the coverage in that situation. I've seen teams put a player at the 5 yard line when that play starts. He did that in college and still doing it today. His routes to the ball have always been bad.

Tombstone RJ
01-14-2013, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE=Tombstone RJ;3781220]Yep, he was spying Pitta and had he forgot about Pitta and just covered Jones, and then maybe Flacco chucks it to Pitta and Pitta makes a huge play for big yardage we'd all be down on Moore for that as well. Moore simply got there a little too late and he did not time his leap well and the rest is history.[/QUOTE

Wrong. I wouldn't be as upset with a 30 yard gain. I wouldn't be as upset if Moore flat out ran into the reciever getting PI. Neither is a TD. It's pop Warner knowledge that you NEVER let someone get past the coverage in that situation. I've seen teams put a player at the 5 yard line when that play starts. He did that in college and still doing it today. His routes to the ball have always been bad.

I'm just saying that maybe Flacco throws to Pitta and Moore gets there too late (because he's favoring Jones), doesn't make the tackle and the ratbirds have a huge, huge play and maybe get a TD that way. Yes, Moore should have favored Jones, there's no doubt about it but who knows what could have happened if he completely ignores Pitta.

Old Dude
01-14-2013, 12:11 PM
What happened to Michael Dean Perry after the 96-97 season?

The whole team was flat that day, but it was Perry's slow walk off the field (and the resulting penalty) that gave Jax the final chance they needed to win.

Mitigating circumstances here are that (a) Moore's a much, much younger player and (b) the bonehead move here was being selfish and overaggressive rather than lazy.

So I'm not sure that Moore gets cut or traded, but I guarantee he'll be facing stiff competion for that spot in the offseason.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 12:33 PM
What happened to Michael Dean Perry after the 96-97 season?

The whole team was flat that day, but it was Perry's slow walk off the field (and the resulting penalty) that gave Jax the final chance they needed to win.

Mitigating circumstances here are that (a) Moore's a much, much younger player and (b) the bonehead move here was being selfish and overaggressive rather than lazy.

So I'm not sure that Moore gets cut or traded, but I guarantee he'll be facing stiff competion for that spot in the offseason.

Hopefully, from Champ. :~ohyah!:

Lestat
01-14-2013, 12:49 PM
my thought was that we needed a S before the play and it reinforced my opinion after that.
Moore will be fine, he's a 2nd year player with his first full season of starting under his belt.

we need a SS draftee in case Carter can't come back quickly.
this will be a huge learning experience for Moore and it will force him to get better.

cutthemdown
01-14-2013, 12:54 PM
I more blame Bailey then Moore. Moore is a young player while Bailey was supposed to be playing for his big career ending swan song. Instead he got burnt 4 times but luckily only gave up the 2 big plays. Also Manning with turnovers and a pick 6? But people want to blame moore for it all because his bad play was last? Nope Bailey has more to blame then any other defender. He is the HOF player. He is the big leader. He is the big stud and he played the worst game he ever has in Denver.

Baliey, Manning and the coaching staff deserve more blame then Moore.

spdirty
01-14-2013, 01:00 PM
I more blame Bailey then Moore. Moore is a young player while Bailey was supposed to be playing for his big career ending swan song. Instead he got burnt 4 times but luckily only gave up the 2 big plays. Also Manning with turnovers and a pick 6? But people want to blame moore for it all because his bad play was last? Nope Bailey has more to blame then any other defender. He is the HOF player. He is the big leader. He is the big stud and he played the worst game he ever has in Denver.

Baliey, Manning and the coaching staff deserve more blame then Moore.

Again, even with manning and bailey playing awful, we still had a 97.5% chance to win. That is a situation I will take any time any game. That play lost the game more than anything else.

cutthemdown
01-14-2013, 01:03 PM
Again, even with manning and bailey playing awful, we still had a 97.5% chance to win. That is a situation I will take any time any game. That play lost the game more than anything else.

Bailey has no one but himself to blame now. I lost a lot of respect for him with that performance. CHOKE!!!!!

eddie mac
01-14-2013, 01:03 PM
If other players have an issue with him I'd **** them out. It's not as if at some point in these pro's careers they've made a mistake or 10.

This is the bloody NFL, not the playground, the Broncos invested a 2nd rd pick in this kid and this season was the first in which we've seen any real progress and you wanna throw him to the lions???

One play does not make a career, if we'd have binned Elway after some of his shocking Superbowl performances wtf would the Broncos history be right now???

Al Wilson
01-14-2013, 01:07 PM
Everyone wants Moore's head on a plate. What about Champ Bailey? He got owned like a bitch all game and deserves more heat than Moore. Bailey got bitch slapped in that game

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 01:07 PM
If other players have an issue with him I'd **** them out. It's not as if at some point in these pro's careers they've made a mistake or 10.

This is the bloody NFL, not the playground, the Broncos invested a 2nd rd pick in this kid and this season was the first in which we've seen any real progress and you wanna throw him to the lions???

One play does not make a career, if we'd have binned Elway after some of his shocking Superbowl performances wtf would the Broncos history be right now???

Letting a receiver get behind you in that type of game situation is much more than a simple mistake. You have to question the guy's ability to understand simple game concepts.

sgbfan
01-14-2013, 01:09 PM
He didn't spy on the TE too much. He had plenty of time to get back and make the play, he just backpedaled instead of turning to run, a mistake I doubt he makes again. Moore was one of the most improved players this year and would be difficult to replace with someone better. Champ is the question mark for me. He isn't going to get faster in the next year.

sgbfan
01-14-2013, 01:15 PM
He didn't spy on the TE too much. He had plenty of time to get back and make the play, he just backpedaled instead of turning to run, a mistake I doubt he makes again. Moore was one of the most improved players this year and would be difficult to replace with someone better. Champ is the question mark for me. He isn't going to get faster in the next year.

SouthStndJunkie
01-14-2013, 01:18 PM
Rahim Moore had a pretty good year and is a player with a lot of potential.

Cutting him after that play would be a knee jerk reaction....overall, he made a lot of strides this season.

Another team would snatch him up in a second.

Rahim Moore has a lot of upside and potential and a bright future in the NFL.

UberBroncoMan
01-14-2013, 01:20 PM
If Moore's play happened to start the game and the Smith TD on Bailey happened to end it, the threads would be entirely different.

It's all about what happens at the end that resonates in people's minds.

Don't forget that we had the ball in OT to win it and we ****ed it up.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 01:21 PM
I think the extremely cold weather affected Champ. He's getting to that age that he's no longer bullet proof. Doesn't mean he can't still play. Just means everyone involved will need to start considering these factors and make adjustments from time to time. The days of just throw Champ out there come rain come shine regardless may be over.

WolfpackGuy
01-14-2013, 01:22 PM
I still can't believe he wasn't able to make a play on that moonball.

Christ, that ball was in the air FOREVER.

Backpedaling then falling on your ass to boot was about the worst way to play that pass.

Lestat
01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
Letting a receiver get behind you in that type of game situation is much more than a simple mistake. You have to question the guy's ability to understand simple game concepts.

i have a bigger issue with us rushing only 3 and only Moore being near the receiver or the ball.
the other DB was 6-7 yards away and he was originally covering Jones.

hades
01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
I still can't believe he wasn't able to make a play on that moonball.

Christ, that ball was in the air FOREVER.

Backpedaling then falling on your ass to boot was about the worst way to play that pass.

No kidding it hung forever. I went to the kitchen while Joe was scrambling around, made a sandwich and walked back in and he was just jumping at the ball.

Rabb
01-14-2013, 01:32 PM
I don't know who else was at the game but that single play is on the opposite end of the spectrum for me in terms of playoff moments I have seen live. The other end being, the DT TD last year.

After Smith caught it, it was almost like I couldn't believe what I just saw. The end of the game was quiet and just miserable.

McDman
01-14-2013, 01:32 PM
Half of the people on this board are so unbelivavbly dense.

So far I have read a few interesting things...

Let's cut Rahim Moore.
The guy just had a really good season. He was a tackling machine. Let's not forget the massive strides he took between his rookie year and his second. Anyone wanting to get rid of him is an imbecile. He made one absolutely terrible play but is it worth cutting him over? Absolutely not.

Champ Bailey is old and clearly needs to move to safety.
I will refer you to this article that has all of the stats for him this year. He is still a top 4 corner http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/a-reminder-that-champ-bailey-had-a-great-2012

Peyton should retire.
Really? A fantastic QB who made 1 terrible throw? Forget the 3 TDs he threw. He threw one bad pic! The guy turned us from an 8-8 team that won some games we did not deserve to win into a legit contender. I don't see anyone crucifying the defense for giving up 35 pts to Mr. Elite Flacco.

Fire John Elway and John Fox.
I'm really hoping whomever suggested firing Elway was trolling. Otherwise it was literally one of the dumbest comments I have ever read in the history of the internet. Please jump off of a cliff.

I can understand being mad at Fox. He messed up. He admitted to it. Hopefully he will learn from his dumb mistakes and realize he has Peyton and not Delhomme. Maybe Peyton was hurt? He kept clutching his hand and didn't make more than 2 throws over 15 yards. Idk. Suggesting we fire the coach that brought us back frokm our lowest point is idiotic.

People need to think before they write this moronic bs. These pussy ass knee jerk reactions make us look like the most fickle fan base in the NFL. We had a terrible game, get over it. It was devastating but we are a good team with the talent to do it again next year.

edog24
01-14-2013, 01:35 PM
Everyone wants Moore's head on a plate. What about Champ Bailey? He got owned like a b**** all game and deserves more heat than Moore. Bailey got b**** slapped in that game

Well some differences exist here, Champ has been with us through thick and thin, carrying the team sometimes over the last few years. Moore just seems like a trash talking mediocre player to me. He reminds me a lot of Tbuck, going for the big hit or the pick, never making the smart play.

I was cursing Champ for sure for getting burned, but it's a bit much to ask Champ to keep up with WRs year after year on his own with no help.

Bronco Yoda
01-14-2013, 01:38 PM
Did Jack Del Rio underestimate Flacco?

BroncoBeavis
01-14-2013, 01:41 PM
It was a horrible mistake, but this sort of **** is character building. He's a good, young player with upside. You dont get rid of him. You see how he reacts to this.

Good point. One play does not make a career. If he doesn't learn from it you deal with him. If he does and you cut him loose some other team profits from the the price we just paid.

BroncoBeavis
01-14-2013, 01:46 PM
I still can't believe he wasn't able to make a play on that moonball.

Christ, that ball was in the air FOREVER.

Backpedaling then falling on your ass to boot was about the worst way to play that pass.

He laid it up like last week too and got lucky. We all said our secondary was too good to allow it. Pisses me off just thinking about it.

Smiling Assassin27
01-14-2013, 01:51 PM
After effectively costing us the season, and destroying everything that team and coaching staff worked so hard all year for.

He is despised by at least 90% of the fanbase. Probably worse than McDaniels.

What do you think the coaches think about him?

What do you think the players think of him?

Where is his head right now? I saw a poster say he was in a restaurant yesterday staring into outer space just zoned out.

Even if he comes back to be the next Ed Reed, he will NEVER live this down here. 20 years from now people will remember this and remember his name with disgust. Perry and Lilly haven't lived down their **** ups for ****s sakes. And Lilly was 26 years ago, Perry 16.

I just don't know how you can justify bringing him back after this.



Because John Elway is not Al Davis.

Al Wilson
01-14-2013, 01:53 PM
Well some differences exist here, Champ has been with us through thick and thin, carrying the team sometimes over the last few years. Moore just seems like a trash talking mediocre player to me. He reminds me a lot of Tbuck, going for the big hit or the pick, never making the smart play.

I was cursing Champ for sure for getting burned, but it's a bit much to ask Champ to keep up with WRs year after year on his own with no help.
How is Moore a trash talker? Never seen him trash talk a player on the field. He had 1 bad play all game, while Champ kept on getting beat play after play. He is more at blame for the loss than Moore.

Lestat
01-14-2013, 01:55 PM
How is Moore a trash talker? Never seen him trash talk a player on the field. He had 1 bad play all game, while Champ kept on getting beat play after play. He is more at blame for the loss than Moore.

i think most people get that from his Rahim "The Dream" Moore intros.

shalowlow
01-14-2013, 01:57 PM
I agree that saying he should be cut is stupid. Plain and simple. He just made a bad play on the ball, it just happened to come at the worst possible time.

It doesn't do much for my view of his athleticism though. It was not an athletic or intelligent play by any means.

I still can't believe it happened the way it did. Every time I see the replay, I think "okay this time he'll bat it down".

Bronco X
01-14-2013, 02:03 PM
I don't mind if they replace him with someone better. It's not like you can pick one of those up at the local convenience store though. You don't just cut him because he screwed the pooch without a solid plan to upgrade. There's a long list of people who screwed up at inopportune moments on Saturday. Some of them are people this team is built around and who still give this team a chance to win a title these next two to three years.

errand
01-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Well I hope you want to get rid of Champ Bailey and Manning then too because they had just as much of an effect on the outcome as Moore. That's why I'll let John Elway sit back and make those decisions.

This^

If we cut everyone from the team that ****ed up.... We wouldn't have hardly anyone on the team. A bunch of you mother****ers need to just stop thinking with your vaginas... And let the professionals make those decisions for you

TDmvp
01-14-2013, 02:28 PM
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9452/79492416.jpg

I'm just sayin.... I mean hell my GF could have defended that TD pass better.

txtebow
01-14-2013, 03:25 PM
The next time that mental midget and his overestimated vertical wears Orange, it better be the color of the inmate uniform and that he's serving time for committing the felony offense of stealing from us Broncomaniacs DEFEAT from the jaws of VICTORY!!!

txtebow
01-14-2013, 03:29 PM
If other players have an issue with him I'd **** them out. It's not as if at some point in these pro's careers they've made a mistake or 10.

This is the bloody NFL, not the playground, the Broncos invested a 2nd rd pick in this kid and this season was the first in which we've seen any real progress and you wanna throw him to the lions???

One play does not make a career, if we'd have binned Elway after some of his shocking Superbowl performances wtf would the Broncos history be right now???

How many players make a mistake at such a critical juncture as this?????? 39 seconds to go, 70 yards away from your own goaline, 3rd and 3 and the other team has ZERO timeouts.....and you play a shallow crossing tight end while you're in COVER 2 (while the corner is playing his position correctly by shadowing underneath!!! ) how many players do this???Less than 1%....that is a Bronco CAREER ENDING MISTAKE. End of story. We are taught in Jr. High if you're protecting a lead and playing safety to not let a man get behind you....that was simply intolerable and out TEAM NEVER RECOVERED.

2KBack
01-14-2013, 03:30 PM
Probably the single most improved player on the team over the last year...and still very young. Of course he should be here. Does that mean we don't upgrade if we can, certainly not....but you don't cut someone based on one screw up.

txtebow
01-14-2013, 03:32 PM
How many pass breakups and INTs did Moore have THIS SEASON? THIS ISN' T CHARLES WOODSON BACK THERE GETTING BEAT.......f*CK HIM AND HIS 72 TACKLES AND one MEASLEY fRICKING interception!!! hE SHOULD'VE BEEN CUT RIGHT AFTER HE SHOWERED....

txtebow
01-14-2013, 03:33 PM
Probably the single most improved player on the team over the last year...and still very young. Of course he should be here. Does that mean we don't upgrade if we can, certainly not....but you don't cut someone based on one screw up.

CARTER GOT HURT; OTHERWISE MOORE DOESN'T START.

Al Wilson
01-14-2013, 03:44 PM
CARTER GOT HURT; OTHERWISE MOORE DOESN'T START.
Actually Moore was starting over Carter when Carter was healthy beginning of camp.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 03:52 PM
The other question that needs to be asked is what was Ron Milus, the secondary coach, doing? Hard to tell from TV, but it looked like Jones was running past where Rahim was on the field after about twenty five yards. Shouldn't Rahim have been lined up about forty yards deep? Didn't Champ, or Mike Adams, lay out the law before the play? Why did Rahim get the chance to be in the wrong position on the play?

txtebow
01-14-2013, 03:53 PM
Actually Moore was starting over Carter when Carter was healthy beginning of camp.

When both were healthy in 2011 who played? that was nothing more than a motivational ploy that bore itself out to all of our horror on Saturday....

mkporter
01-14-2013, 03:58 PM
It would be tremendously short sided to dump him now. He had a really good year, showing a ton of improvement, and he is very young. He made a bad play at an awful time, I don't think he was being selfish at all, just was looking to end the game. Lost his head and got too aggressive. No need to be making more holes in the roster that we'd need to fill. We lost the game in 20 different ways, his was just the most obvious.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 03:59 PM
It would be tremendously short sided to dump him now. He had a really good year, showing a ton of improvement, and he is very young. He made a bad play at an awful time, I don't think he was being selfish at all, just was looking to end the game. Lost his head and got too aggressive. No need to be making more holes in the roster that we'd need to fill. We lost the game in 20 different ways, his was just the most obvious.

Except that, if he makes that play, we win that game.

BroncoBen
01-14-2013, 03:59 PM
I don't see how Moore stays a Denver Bronco.. Someone will beat him out during training camp.. The coaches will make sure of that.

extralife
01-14-2013, 04:45 PM
The goal is to win games. You don't cut a young player with upside in the middle of a three year super bowl window just because you are "mad." Get over yourselves.

Lestat
01-14-2013, 04:46 PM
wasn't Carter battling with Adams to play Strong Safety this season? i always thought Carter was a SS who played FS due to Moore's issues last season and us having Dawkins back there at SS.

Bigdawg26
01-14-2013, 04:51 PM
Well, I would like to see more of a play maker back there than Moore at FS.

broncocalijohn
01-14-2013, 05:12 PM
serious?

if the players hate him, then I agree get rid of him. But if the lockerroom is fine then let the kid learn and move on.

He had a great year and is still improving.

I agree. As much as he pretty much stunk last year, the kid has come a long ways and helped make this defense top 5. Only way he can redeem himself is play like an All Pro and we get another opportunity to get this Super Bowl. He has something really to play for in the upcoming season and better be hungry and humble as pie.
While his play was absolutely stupid, we shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with but being the last 30 seconds sheds light on it...ask Perry about his fat ass in 96. So many bonehead plays that day but this is the one that will be remembered.

chadta
01-14-2013, 05:21 PM
make him walk up and down the isles l;ike a popcorn vender, and every time a fan squawks about a dumb on the feild play he can say "oh yeah you think that was dumb, remember what i did?"

txtebow
01-14-2013, 05:50 PM
The goal is to win games. You don't cut a young player with upside in the middle of a three year super bowl window just because you are "mad." Get over yourselves.

The goal IS TO WIN GAMES...I agree. and Moore made perhaps the most egregious error a safety could; something that should be so fundamental to a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER that this would never happen. Yet he made that error. He simply cannot be counted upon to make the right decision. He is a MENTAL MIDGET whose physical skills will always be limited by his pathetic mental acuity.

txtebow
01-14-2013, 05:52 PM
Well, I would like to see more of a play maker back there than Moore at FS.

Bingo. He's not a stalwart who happens to gamble because of an uncanny big play capability (as evidenced by his paltry ONE ****ING INT despite us being ahead most of the games this year) ala ED REED...he's not even NICK FERGUSON. He's backup PAC 12 garbage.

ZONA
01-14-2013, 06:07 PM
I'm on the fence about bringing him back. Part of me says yeah, he's young, he made a mistake, he'll hopefully learn from it. But there's another part of me that says, you're a safety, at this level you should already know that you can't let the WR get deeper then you, ESPECIALLY in that situation. The team was burned several times on long passes over the top, why didn't he learn from those situations earlier in the game. What makes you think if he couldn't learn from those, why he would learn from the last one. The mistake you can live with and justify is a poor tackle, or maybe a pass interference call if he was maybe pulling down the WR's arms a tad early. But this mistake was a core fundamental know how of an NFL safety. It wasn't a hard play to make.

It's a tough call, I can't really decide either way right now. I do know, however, that Moore would have NEVER made a good outfielder in MLB, lolz.

RaiderH8r
01-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Some folks need to remember it is just a football game and not a life and death situation. Kid made a mistake on the job, something that we all do. He will be back and will learn from the mistake which will make him a better player.

If any of us made a mistake that big n the job we would be fired and barred from future employment in our respective professions. That's how ****ed his play was. Buckneresque in its scale of ****ed.

Unfortunately we can't outright dump the **** sipper...yet. We should be moving in a direction to immediately replace him without him knowing it. Oh sure it's all giggles and it'll be fine let's grow from this happy horse**** until the call comes that we just signed your replacement, drafted his backup, bring your play book because your career here is 100% ****ed. Piss off dickhead.

RaiderH8r
01-14-2013, 07:01 PM
I don't see how Moore stays a Denver Bronco.. Someone will beat him out during training camp.. The coaches will make sure of that.

Moore clearly does not give us the best chance to win. A three legged dog would have made a better safety out there.

eddie mac
01-14-2013, 07:16 PM
Half of the people on this board are so unbelivavbly dense.

So far I have read a few interesting things...

Let's cut Rahim Moore.
The guy just had a really good season. He was a tackling machine. Let's not forget the massive strides he took between his rookie year and his second. Anyone wanting to get rid of him is an imbecile. He made one absolutely terrible play but is it worth cutting him over? Absolutely not.

Champ Bailey is old and clearly needs to move to safety.
I will refer you to this article that has all of the stats for him this year. He is still a top 4 corner http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/a-reminder-that-champ-bailey-had-a-great-2012

Peyton should retire.
Really? A fantastic QB who made 1 terrible throw? Forget the 3 TDs he threw. He threw one bad pic! The guy turned us from an 8-8 team that won some games we did not deserve to win into a legit contender. I don't see anyone crucifying the defense for giving up 35 pts to Mr. Elite Flacco.

Fire John Elway and John Fox.
I'm really hoping whomever suggested firing Elway was trolling. Otherwise it was literally one of the dumbest comments I have ever read in the history of the internet. Please jump off of a cliff.

I can understand being mad at Fox. He messed up. He admitted to it. Hopefully he will learn from his dumb mistakes and realize he has Peyton and not Delhomme. Maybe Peyton was hurt? He kept clutching his hand and didn't make more than 2 throws over 15 yards. Idk. Suggesting we fire the coach that brought us back frokm our lowest point is idiotic.

People need to think before they write this moronic bs. These p***Y ass knee jerk reactions make us look like the most fickle fan base in the NFL. We had a terrible game, get over it. It was devastating but we are a good team with the talent to do it again next year.

The Denver Broncos average fanbase IQ dropped by 50 points sometime between Saturday night and well until the ****e blows over.

McDman
01-14-2013, 07:31 PM
The Denver Broncos average fanbase IQ dropped by 50 points sometime between Saturday night and well until the ****e blows over.

It's infuriating and so dumb.

Lestat
01-14-2013, 07:38 PM
The Denver Broncos average fanbase IQ dropped by 50 points sometime between Saturday night and well until the ****e blows over.

still not as bad as the epic meltdown when DeCastro went before us and we traded out of the first. then when we selected Wolfe & Oz

extralife
01-14-2013, 07:43 PM
If any of us made a mistake that big n the job we would be fired and barred from future employment in our respective professions. That's how ****ed his play was. Buckneresque in its scale of ****ed.

Unfortunately we can't outright dump the **** sipper...yet. We should be moving in a direction to immediately replace him without him knowing it. Oh sure it's all giggles and it'll be fine let's grow from this happy horse**** until the call comes that we just signed your replacement, drafted his backup, bring your play book because your career here is 100% ****ed. Piss off dickhead.

I would say I imagined this post being read by a man with a bag over his head and a bucket of drool under his face, but I'm pretty sure that's the actual truth.

and for all those who think he will be cut (because you are dumb), please let me describe for you the case of Kyle Williams and the San Francisco 49ers, whom I also happen to root for. In the windswept year of 2012, Kyle Williams muffed a punt in the NFC Championship game that immediately led to a TD for the Giants in a close game. It was in the 4th quarter. It was devastating. I wanted to die. But the 49ers tied the game! It went into overtime! Joy of Joys, the 49ers got a defensive stop! On to the field comes our hero Kyle Williams, out for redemption. He muffs the punt. The Giants kick a field goal.

Kyle Williams lost the NFC Championship game for the 49ers TWICE. IN THE SAME GAME.

He played for the team this year.

spdirty
01-14-2013, 07:46 PM
I just will never trust him again in that situation. I can't imagine how the players or coaches would trust him.

Here's how I look at it.

It's like if I hire someone to bid jobs, and they bid 1 job where the engineer's estimate is $5,000,000. The second place bidder's bid is $4,750,000. Our cost to do the job is $3,000,000. He is super aggressive and wants to be the hero, getting the big job, and his bid is $1,500,000. A mistake like that, I don't care how smart he is. How much potential he has. How young he is. A mistake that bad is unforgivable. That guy would be fired on the spot because he can never be trusted again.

That's Rahim the Dream.

vancejohnson82
01-14-2013, 07:49 PM
I would say I imagined this post being read by a man with a bag over his head and a bucket of drool under his face, but I'm pretty sure that's the actual truth.

and for all those who think he will be cut (because you are dumb), please let me describe for you the case of Kyle Williams and the San Francisco 49ers, whom I also happen to root for. In the windswept year of 2012, Kyle Williams muffed a punt in the NFC Championship game that immediately led to a TD for the Giants in a close game. It was in the 4th quarter. It was devastating. I wanted to die. But the 49ers tied the game! It went into overtime! Joy of Joys, the 49ers got a defensive stop! On to the field comes our hero Kyle Williams, out for redemption. He muffs the punt. The Giants kick a field goal.

Kyle Williams lost the NFC Championship game for the 49ers TWICE. IN THE SAME GAME.

He played for the team this year.

I stopped reading your post when you said you root for two NFL teams...

RaiderH8r
01-14-2013, 07:50 PM
I just will never trust him again in that situation. I can't imagine how the players or coaches would trust him.

Here's how I look at it.

It's like if I hire someone to bid jobs, and they bid 1 job where the engineer's estimate is $5,000,000. The second place bidder's bid is $4,750,000. Our cost to do the job is $3,000,000. He is super aggressive and wants to be the hero, getting the big job, and his bid is $1,500,000. A mistake like that, I don't care how smart he is. How much potential he has. How young he is. A mistake that bad is unforgivable. That guy would be fired on the spot because he can never be trusted again.

That's Rahim the Dream.

He's fundamentally incompetent. Let's get his replacement and trade him off to some unwitting dupe. He's not good enough to justify putting up with this ****. There are better players to be had. Let's fine them and get them and send Moore packing.

Rohirrim
01-14-2013, 09:46 PM
I would still like to hear Ron Milus' explanation for why Moore was where he was on that play.

MplsBronco
01-14-2013, 10:07 PM
Looking back on it, Mannings INT was worse. When you consider his stature, his salary, the situation, his experience its a play he absolutely should NOT make. An absolutely horrendous decision. It was 2nd down for God's sake.

Why were we in a defense where Moore was one on one with a guy 50 yards downfield. Say he played the man and the ball and Jones managed to out leap him or whatever and still score. Why weren't there 2 guys on him. Why is Carter worried about the underneath? I think coaching had a role in the play

schaaf
01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
Rahim Moore made a terrible play. But I am amazed at how many people I respect on here are prosecuting him. All he would have had to do was not square his hips to the line of scrimmage and literally jog towards the receiver and he would have been in perfect position for the INT. Instead he completely misjudges the trajectory and misses the knock down and the interception. This was an elementary mistake for a Defensive Back. There seem to be a lot of people even more mad that he admitted that he was going for the interception.... Seriously???....Rahim Moore makes that interception and the game is over, simple as that. Rahim Moore tries to knock the pass down or simply swats at it they still have several more chances and they proved all game long that they could have the deep ball on us at will. Moore would have been prosecuted just as much had he simply swatted the ball down and then three plays later the Ravens score and they send it to OT. These same people that would have prosecuted him then are the ones prosecuting him now for going for the INT.

I'm not defending Rahim Moore for one of the worst plays I've ever seen from a Broncos defender, it was a completely elementary mistake. But it was just that, a mistake. Moore gave us everything he had this year and IMO was the most improved Bronco from 2011 to 2012. He will continue to improve. Moore's elementary mistake was no more of an elementary mistake than Manning running to his right and trying to throw back across his body to the left.

maher_tyler
01-14-2013, 10:30 PM
I think Moore is going to have a big year for us next year. You could see him getting better as the year went on. Hopefully he uses this as motivation to train harder and come back a better player. I couldn't believe it when it happened but there were countless other things that happened leading up to that play. There is nothing more annoying than only rushing 3 guys.

COWheatGrower
01-15-2013, 02:17 AM
I forgive Rahim Moore. We all should. Making mistakes is a part of life and I sure as hell know now that he's never going to let a wide receiver get deeper than him again in a zone.

Ratboy
01-15-2013, 03:46 AM
I think Moore is going to have a big year for us next year. You could see him getting better as the year went on. Hopefully he uses this as motivation to train harder and come back a better player. I couldn't believe it when it happened but there were countless other things that happened leading up to that play. There is nothing more annoying than only rushing 3 guys.

He wasn't even in bad position at first either. He made the wrong call and was inches short from the pick. Had he just continued to run towards Jones, the ball is incomplete.

I'm not angry anymore, just upset because of what this season could have been.

Moore will be back and even better.

Punisher
01-15-2013, 05:39 AM
The real title of the thread is "Why should Champ Bailey be back next Year"

McDman
01-15-2013, 06:09 AM
The real title of the thread is "Why should Champ Bailey be back next Year"

Because he had an all pro year and got burnt in one game against one of the best deep threats in the league.

2KBack
01-15-2013, 06:32 AM
The goal IS TO WIN GAMES...I agree. and Moore made perhaps the most egregious error a safety could; something that should be so fundamental to a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER that this would never happen. Yet he made that error. He simply cannot be counted upon to make the right decision. He is a MENTAL MIDGET whose physical skills will always be limited by his pathetic mental acuity.

You are being a fool. The Broncos won 13 games this season with a often dominant defense, one that he was a 16 game starter for. This was the first game of this season where he can take a larger share of the loss. Stop acting like he was some liability all season long.

Punisher
01-15-2013, 08:03 AM
Because he had an all pro year and got burnt in one game against one of the best deep threats in the league.

He cost us the game and he didn't have a ALL Pro Year. Flacco flat out stinks he didn't do anything special he just threw a long pass and prayed for a catch Bailey got exposed.

McDman
01-15-2013, 08:43 AM
He cost us the game and he didn't have a ALL Pro Year. Flacco flat out stinks he didn't do anything special he just threw a long pass and prayed for a catch Bailey got exposed.

Compelling argument but you're wrong.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130114/peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback-divisional-playoffs/index.html#all

On the evidence of a full season of play. Bailey had gone one-on-one with the best receiver of nearly every team Denver had faced. And, until Saturday it had worked every time. Bailey had a superb season. We voted him our 2nd Team All-Pro corner (an honor that was replicated in the AP All-Pro team released on Saturday) because he stood out on tape and this was reflected in the numbers too.
In terms of giving up first downs/touchdowns per coverage snap he was ranked fourth overall among corners, and of those above him, no one was given the same coverage responsibilities he had. On balls that traveled over 20 yards in the air he allowed only three to be completed all year, with none of these going for touchdowns. Covering the likes of Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, A.J. Green, Roddy White and Brandon Lloyd, Bailey gave up only 17 completions of more than 10 yards and a single touchdown all year.

Can't argue with facts but if you're like 80% of this board I'm sure you will try to skew this some way or another to try and make your point.

Rohirrim
01-15-2013, 08:47 AM
Face it. When it really counted, our secondary fell flat on its face, including (and maybe worst of all) Champ Bailey. Keep in mind, the only reason he didn't get burned for an additional TD and another 70 yards tacked to his name is because Flacco overthrew Smith. I'm still waiting for somebody to bring up Ron Milus and his responsibility for this debacle. Or JDR. For this kind of disaster, somebody's head has to roll. If not any of the players, then Milus.

McDman
01-15-2013, 08:51 AM
Face it. When it really counted, our secondary fell flat on its face, including (and maybe worst of all) Champ Bailey. Keep in mind, the only reason he didn't get burned for an additional TD and another 70 yards tacked to his name is because Flacco overthrew Smith. I'm still waiting for somebody to bring up Ron Milus and his responsibility for this debacle. Or JDR. For this kind of disaster, somebody's head has to roll. If not any of the players, then Milus.

He had his worst game of his career, maybe second after the Chad Johnson game awhile back. It still doesn't take away from the fact he had an amazing year and to question whether he shouod be on this team next year is shockingly moronic.

Rohirrim
01-15-2013, 09:16 AM
He had his worst game of his career, maybe second after the Chad Johnson game awhile back. It still doesn't take away from the fact he had an amazing year and to question whether he shouod be on this team next year is shockingly moronic.

Nowhere have I advocated the firing of Champ, so take your "moronic" and put it where the sun don't shine.

Punisher
01-15-2013, 09:30 AM
Compelling argument but you're wrong.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130114/peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback-divisional-playoffs/index.html#all

On the evidence of a full season of play. Bailey had gone one-on-one with the best receiver of nearly every team Denver had faced. And, until Saturday it had worked every time. Bailey had a superb season. We voted him our 2nd Team All-Pro corner (an honor that was replicated in the AP All-Pro team released on Saturday) because he stood out on tape and this was reflected in the numbers too.
In terms of giving up first downs/touchdowns per coverage snap he was ranked fourth overall among corners, and of those above him, no one was given the same coverage responsibilities he had. On balls that traveled over 20 yards in the air he allowed only three to be completed all year, with none of these going for touchdowns. Covering the likes of Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, A.J. Green, Roddy White and Brandon Lloyd, Bailey gave up only 17 completions of more than 10 yards and a single touchdown all year.

Can't argue with facts but if you're like 80% of this board I'm sure you will try to skew this some way or another to try and make your point.

If Bailey is smart he'll move to safety and admit hes not a CB in this league no more. If you can't stick Troy Smith what makes you think he can stick elite Receivers like A.J Green, Calvin Johnson etc. And i don't know about your stats but in the Bengals game A.J smoked Bailey

A. Green Rec7 Yards99 Avg14.1 TD1

McDman
01-15-2013, 09:31 AM
Nowhere have I advocated the firing of Champ, so take your "moronic" and put it where the sun don't shine.

That wasn't meant for you.

McDman
01-15-2013, 09:34 AM
If Bailey is smart he'll move to safety and admit hes not a CB in this league no more. If you can't stick Troy Smith what makes you think he can stick elite Receivers like A.J Green, Calvin Johnson etc. And i don't know about your stats but in the Bengals game A.J smoked Bailey

You didn't even read the response did you? He gave up one TD all year. I don't even know how to respond to this.

Punisher
01-15-2013, 09:41 AM
You didn't even read the response did you? He gave up one TD all year. I don't even know how to respond to this.

**** No i didn't read that. I know Champ is done at CB he was a liability the game plan for the Ravens was to throw it deep against a slow old CB. Hes not a CB anymore deal with it we lost the game because of him.

Punisher
01-15-2013, 09:44 AM
He basically gave the Ravens 14 Points, "ALL PRO" CB don't give up 14 points. And you can make it 21 points if Flacco didn't over throw Smith

BroncoBeavis
01-15-2013, 09:46 AM
**** No i didn't read that. I know Champ is done at CB he was a liability the game plan for the Ravens was to throw it deep against a slow old CB. Hes not a CB anymore deal with it we lost the game because of him.

Champ deserves the benefit of the doubt. And on one of those bombs, he was actually ahead of the receiver, he just got washed out by the receiver's momentum when the ball was behind him. He didn't play the ball well that play, but it wasn't a speed issue.

I was almost more concerned with the pass rush, but it's hard to make too many determinations watching in person. Other than it sucked. :)

Rohirrim
01-15-2013, 09:51 AM
I'm still not cooled down enough to give Rahim a reprieve, but I am ready to think of solutions. For one thing, the Broncos pass rush disappeared on Saturday. Why? Flacco was not so much as touched until the first OT. I think this is glaring evidence of our weakness at DT. Obviously, if the QB has all the time in the world, Champ cannot keep up with a fast receiver for fifty yards. Champ got exposed because our weakness at DT got exposed. Still, all in all, I believe Milus should be fired immediately. You cannot let such a disaster go by without some kind of response. It sends a very bad signal. Some things are just flat out unacceptable. The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.

BroncoBeavis
01-15-2013, 09:55 AM
I'm still not cooled down enough to give Rahim a reprieve, but I am ready to think of solutions. For one thing, the Broncos pass rush disappeared on Saturday. Why? Flacco was not so much as touched until the first OT. I think this is glaring evidence of our weakness at DT. Obviously, if the QB has all the time in the world, Champ cannot keep up with a fast receiver for fifty yards. Champ got exposed because our weakness at DT got exposed. Still, all in all, I believe Milus should be fired immediately. You cannot let such a disaster go by without some kind of response. It sends a very bad signal. Some things are just flat out unacceptable. The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.

I like most of what you say here. But god help us if we expect to replace Champ at corner with FA.

Punisher
01-15-2013, 09:58 AM
I'm still not cooled down enough to give Rahim a reprieve, but I am ready to think of solutions. For one thing, the Broncos pass rush disappeared on Saturday. Why? Flacco was not so much as touched until the first OT. I think this is glaring evidence of our weakness at DT. Obviously, if the QB has all the time in the world, Champ cannot keep up with a fast receiver for fifty yards. Champ got exposed because our weakness at DT got exposed. Still, all in all, I believe Milus should be fired immediately. You cannot let such a disaster go by without some kind of response. It sends a very bad signal. Some things are just flat out unacceptable. The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.

Agree

Hulamau
01-15-2013, 10:08 AM
I still think thats dumb, not selfish. He made a snap decision in the moment. A selfish play would have been for him to run away because he didn't want to get hurt because he's in a contract year or something. I dont think he was making a conscious choice in the moment.

Moore really blew it, no question about it, but if the teamates like him and trust him as Champ implied 99 times out of 100 he makes that play in practice then you have to at least keep him into camp and see how he responds to this.

Its possible he will toast mentally, regardless of what kind of confident public bravado he might be able to muster in a few months. The real test is back on the field and if he is damaged goods from making such an easy to avoid collosal and costly screw up as this one, then we get to cut the ties.

But if he shows true grit and resilience and dedication to improving his game at least as much between this year and next season as he did between his first aborted season and this year, then we'd be foolish to cut him

The key is his response and how the other players really feel about him on the team. Regardless we need more solid Safety help next year . .Hopefully Quentin Carter can come back strong from his injury which isn't an easy one for a safety.

But a real stud back there is a missing link along with a stud at Middle linebacker and an every down monster in the middle of the D line toward taking this team to and winning the SB ..... with the addition of a much improved RB corp this coming year as well.

The rest of the draft and FA should be carefully spent on solid bench players who can come in and keep the train on the tracks if we hit a tough injury spell next year...

Overall I think the new training crew and their methods including use of the Power-Plate seems to have been a real asset. There appeared to be less overall nagging injuries that were slow to heal and our game stamina was consistent all year instead of the big fade as we had done for almost the last 10 years straight of the Tuten era.

And most of the muscle strain type injuries we did have seemed to bounce back quicker than in the past and overall we had relatively few critical injuries all year.

Rascal
01-15-2013, 10:11 AM
The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.

They've already said Champ isn't moving to safety. Rahim will play at FS again next year, so you might as well get used to the idea. Get a good SS, if Carter isn't it, a MLB, and a penetrating DT for the defense. Offense needs to get stronger at the point of attack (G/C/G) and I have serious questions about Kuper (needs another surgery!?!?). Also need another RB.

Hulamau
01-15-2013, 10:13 AM
I still think thats dumb, not selfish. He made a snap decision in the moment. A selfish play would have been for him to run away because he didn't want to get hurt because he's in a contract year or something. I dont think he was making a conscious choice in the moment.

Moore really blew it, no question about it, but if the teamates like him and trust him as Champ implied 99 times out of 100 he makes that play in practice then you have to at least keep him into camp and see how he responds to this.

I was really pissed that he didn't get behind the WR in his angle as any fool in such a situation would be trying to do, he wasn't even going there but was just trying to drift in front of him for the glory pick!

All we need was a knock down really or a pick and especially if Jones caught it Moore's most primary job was to insure he was in position to damn well make that tackle!! Game is over then and all the Ravens get out of it is a momentary thrill while the ball is in the air before the hammer came down on their season. Instead, thanks to Moore, it was us that got the sledgehammer up side the head!

Its possible Rahim will be toast mentally, regardless of what kind of confident public bravado he might be able to muster in a few months. The real test is back on the field and there it will come out if he is damaged goods from making such an easy to avoid colossal and costly screw up as this one? If so, then we get to cut the ties.

But if he shows true grit and resilience and dedication to improving his game at least as much between this year and next season as he did between his first aborted season and this year, then we'd be foolish to cut him, assuming too that he still has the trust and respect of the locker room?

The key is his response and how the other players really feel about him on the team. Regardless we need more solid Safety help next year . .Hopefully Quentin Carter can come back strong from his injury which isn't an easy one for a safety.

But a real stud back there is a missing link along with a stud at Middle linebacker and an every down monster in the middle of the D line toward taking this team to and winning the SB ..... with the addition of a much improved RB corp this coming year as well.

The rest of the draft and FA should be carefully spent on solid bench players who can come in and keep the train on the tracks if we hit a tough injury spell next year...

Overall I think the new training crew and their methods including use of the Power-Plate seems to have been a real asset. There appeared to be less overall nagging injuries that were slow to heal and our game stamina was consistent all year instead of the big fade as we had done for almost the last 10 years straight of the Tuten era.

And most of the muscle strain type injuries we did have seemed to bounce back quicker than in the past and overall we had relatively few critical injuries all year.

Hulamau
01-15-2013, 10:44 AM
If Bailey is smart he'll move to safety and admit hes not a CB in this league no more. If you can't stick Troy Smith what makes you think he can stick elite Receivers like A.J Green, Calvin Johnson etc. And i don't know about your stats but in the Bengals game A.J smoked Bailey

A. Green Rec7 Yards99 Avg14.1 TD1

No Bailey is good for another year. He had a bad half of football ... at a bad time admittedly but that happens to EVERY star football player.

With all that Champ has accomplished, including this year, he more than deserves to have to start showing those kind of slips more than once or twice in a blue moon before you kick a first round ballot HOF corner to the curb!

The second TD wasnt even bad coverage, Dion was analyzing Champs play in that game yesterday on NFL.com and he said that on the first long TD when Smith pushed off on Champs left shoulder it causes the CB to have to reset his stride jsut a bit and that is all it takes for a speed burner like Smith to get that step on Champ he needed and it was a perfect throw that led him just enough to help accelerate Torreys stride rather than slow him down any so there was little chance at that point for Champ to make the play .. Had Champ done a better bump off the line things would likely have been different, but as Champ said 'I lost him for second on the line and he got away from me'.

On the second long Flacco-Smith TD, that was a picture perfect looping line drive kind of pass and Dion said Champ had perfect coverage .. "You cant ask for better coverage on that kind of route than Champ had, but Flacco threw it intentionally just a little short and Torrey made that quik turn around comeback but Champ couldnt stop his momentum ... a great pass and solid route will beat most CBs no matter who they are!"

Two other times in the first half Smith got ahead of Champ as well but the passes weren't completed or he stepped out of bounds on one of them.

Champ and the D made adjustments in the second half and Torrey was quiet the rest of the game while Champ was solid.

You have to really review what happened and why before going overboard and advocating moving Champ to safety, just because of a single bad half for him!

We need someone who will perform consistently better than Champ all year long before he get reassigned to safety!

McDman
01-15-2013, 11:36 AM
No Bailey is good for another year. He had a bad half of football ... at a bad time admittedly but that happens to EVERY star football player.

With all that Champ has accomplished, including this year, he more than deserves to have to start showing those kind of slips more than once or twice in a blue moon before you kick a first round ballot HOF corner to the curb!

The second TD wasnt even bad coverage, Dion was analyzing Champs play in that game yesterday on NFL.com and he said that on the first long TD when Smith pushed off on Champs left shoulder it causes the CB to have to reset his stride jsut a bit and that is all it takes for a speed burner like Smith to get that step on Champ he needed and it was a perfect throw that led him just enough to help accelerate Torreys stride rather than slow him down any so there was little chance at that point for Champ to make the play .. Had Champ done a better bump off the line things would likely have been different, but as Champ said 'I lost him for second on the line and he got away from me'.

On the second long Flacco-Smith TD, that was a picture perfect looping line drive kind of pass and Dion said Champ had perfect coverage .. "You cant ask for better coverage on that kind of route than Champ had, but Flacco threw it intentionally just a little short and Torrey made that quik turn around comeback but Champ couldnt stop his momentum ... a great pass and solid route will beat most CBs no matter who they are!"

Two other times in the first half Smith got ahead of Champ as well but the passes weren't completed or he stepped out of bounds on one of them.

Champ and the D made adjustments in the second half and Torrey was quiet the rest of the game while Champ was solid.

You have to really review what happened and why before going overboard and advocating moving Champ to safety, just because of a single bad half for him!

We need someone who will perform consistently better than Champ all year long before he get reassigned to safety!

NO! DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO PUNISHER'S AMAZING ARGUMENT????

CUT CHAMP!

CUT MOORE!

CUT PEYTON!

FIRE ELWAY AND FOX!

WE'RE DOOMED AS A FRANCHISE!!!!

Punisher
01-15-2013, 11:42 AM
NO! DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO PUNISHER'S AMAZING ARGUMENT????

CUT CHAMP!

CUT MOORE!

CUT PEYTON!

FIRE ELWAY AND FOX!

WE'RE DOOMED AS A FRANCHISE!!!!

lol! I didn't say that

go_broncos
01-15-2013, 11:49 AM
Rahim Moore is coming in my dreams...

bronco militia
01-15-2013, 11:54 AM
Rahim Moore is coming in my dreams...

TMI ugh!~

(jacquizz rodgers has sent you a friends request)

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/quizz.jpg

Mediator12
01-15-2013, 12:23 PM
A couple of things here about Moore:

1. He is Not a good NFL safety. He is what coaches call serviceable as a FS. Did he improve this year? Absolutely. He was a much more reliable tackler. However, he was shaky all year in pass coverage and had a solid pass rush hide his deep ball liabilities for most of the season.

2. The lack of coaching for Moore was atrocious. JDR, Ron Milus, and Sam Garnes are not sleeping well at all right now for botching that rush three, five under, 3 deep play where the DAMN safety never flipped his hips to keep depth and tried to backpedal to a deep ball.

Mistake 1: WTF does he care about the TE in front of HIM?!? You want them to throw it in front of you Dumbass! That eats up clock and stops playcalling options!

Mistake 2:Why was he reading the underneath routes at all in that situation? Poor coaching, and even worse situational awareness by a kid who is over his head covering deep still.

Mistake 3: He let the WR get deeper than him. This alone is unforgivable for a safety anytime. That is a safety's primary job in coverage all the time. In that situation, he deserves to be ridiculed for that alone.

Mistake 4: What ******g technique was that? He never once flipped his hips and tracked the ball while running backwards. Then, he tried to make a play on the ball instead of making a tackle! That is the selfish part, and its un-disciplined coaching too. He made the same error earlier this year and no one corrected it, because he did it again at the worst possible time.

3. Coaching blunders: Why not invite the short throw and rush 4? It is not like they were getting any pressure all game anyway and could even think they could with just 3! Then, play quarters coverage all day with umbrella principles to funnel all catches in bounds? WTF are you playing that crap coverage in the first place?

So, while Moore totally blew it, I do not want to hear he makes that play in practice 99 out of a 100 times! There is no way he could by making 3 mental errors and 2 technical errors on that play. He showed he had no idea how to play that coverage and he proved it to the detriment of the team.

I told you guys all year, the stories of his improvement were overrated. I admitted he became a much more solid tackler. However, no one wanted to listen when I brought up how undisciplined he was in coverage and how occasionally lost he was. Unfortunately for all of us, Rahim showed us just how bad that really was on that one play.

Bronco Yoda
01-15-2013, 12:59 PM
Maybe it's just me but I would have had someone standing back there on the 5 yard line.

And my last words would be screaming 'NO ONE GETS BEHIND YOU"!

A min. left with no TO's and 80 yards to go (besides the fact that Flacco had been throwing it up all day long) WTF did Del Rio think they were going to do? Dink and Dunk?

razorwire77
01-15-2013, 02:40 PM
A couple of things here about Moore:

1. He is Not a good NFL safety. He is what coaches call serviceable as a FS. Did he improve this year? Absolutely. He was a much more reliable tackler. However, he was shaky all year in pass coverage and had a solid pass rush hide his deep ball liabilities for most of the season.

2. The lack of coaching for Moore was atrocious. JDR, Ron Milus, and Sam Garnes are not sleeping well at all right now for botching that rush three, five under, 3 deep play where the DAMN safety never flipped his hips to keep depth and tried to backpedal to a deep ball.

Mistake 1: WTF does he care about the TE in front of HIM?!? You want them to throw it in front of you Dumbass! That eats up clock and stops playcalling options!

Mistake 2:Why was he reading the underneath routes at all in that situation? Poor coaching, and even worse situational awareness by a kid who is over his head covering deep still.

Mistake 3: He let the WR get deeper than him. This alone is unforgivable for a safety anytime. That is a safety's primary job in coverage all the time. In that situation, he deserves to be ridiculed for that alone.

Mistake 4: What ******g technique was that? He never once flipped his hips and tracked the ball while running backwards. Then, he tried to make a play on the ball instead of making a tackle! That is the selfish part, and its un-disciplined coaching too. He made the same error earlier this year and no one corrected it, because he did it again at the worst possible time.

3. Coaching blunders: Why not invite the short throw and rush 4? It is not like they were getting any pressure all game anyway and could even think they could with just 3! Then, play quarters coverage all day with umbrella principles to funnel all catches in bounds? WTF are you playing that crap coverage in the first place?

So, while Moore totally blew it, I do not want to hear he makes that play in practice 99 out of a 100 times! There is no way he could by making 3 mental errors and 2 technical errors on that play. He showed he had no idea how to play that coverage and he proved it to the detriment of the team.

I told you guys all year, the stories of his improvement were overrated. I admitted he became a much more solid tackler. However, no one wanted to listen when I brought up how undisciplined he was in coverage and how occasionally lost he was. Unfortunately for all of us, Rahim showed us just how bad that really was on that one play.
Thank you. I disagree with you slightly in that I think he improved more than you give him credit for, but the overall theme of what you've written is true. Mistake 3 in that situation at even a collegiate or high school level is unforgivable, much less when you're in the 4th quarter of the a ****ing NFL playoff game, with a 97 percent chance of winning if he simply keeps the receiver in play and in front of him. Cutting Moore outright would be stupid and an overreaction, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's moved for a 4th or 5th rounder or a player in the off-season. A player that makes that egregious a mental mistake in that situation will never be trusted again, and probably will have issues with the mental aspects of the game as a result of such a serious screw up.

Houshyamama
01-15-2013, 02:52 PM
This is ****ing stupid.

BroncsCheer
01-15-2013, 06:02 PM
I can't believe how many of you seem to have had your lives ruined by the outcome of an entertainment event.

If that's really the case AND you don't work for the Denver Broncos...... All I can say is that you're doing it wrong.

vancejohnson82
01-15-2013, 06:11 PM
the moment was just too damn big for him....its the only way to explain a mental lock like that....all he could think about was getting beat deep and that's exactly what happened

KipCorrington25
01-15-2013, 06:23 PM
Maybe the reason he screwed up is because he's not any good?

He had a terrible rookie year and a decent year this year until the ultimate meltdown moment that will live in infamy

Regardless of what he does from here forward he'll always be the d bag that s--- the bed at the worst possible moment.

errand
01-15-2013, 06:26 PM
Except that, if he makes that play, we win that game.

And if Champ doesn't get burned twice we win it too, so what's your ****ing point?

errand
01-15-2013, 06:40 PM
We should be moving in a direction to immediately replace him without him knowing it. Oh sure it's all giggles and it'll be fine let's grow from this happy horse**** until the call comes that we just signed your replacement, drafted his backup, bring your play book because your career here is 100% ****ed. Piss off dickhead.

Man, this sounds familiar....I guess you can always tell the nuthuggers who are still butt hurt.....

comoose00
01-15-2013, 06:57 PM
This has to be the biggest bunch of douche baggery that have seen in a while. Moore is fine. Did he make a big mistake, of course. I hope every one of you guys is perfect in life or else you should be beaten, killed, or fired for every mistake that you make. The question is will he learn from his mistake?, I would be willing to bet that he does. What in this young mans career has led you to believe that he will not learn from this. Like other people have said why are we so intent on making him the scapegoat? There were many issues with the game. So i have an idea hit the pipe, don't forget to breath and maybe realize that football is a game and he didn't ruin your life because he made a mistake. Would you feel so bad if you hadn't talked so much **** that you had to have a huge helping of humble pie?

go_broncos
01-15-2013, 07:05 PM
I can't believe how many of you seem to have had your lives ruined by the outcome of an entertainment event.

If that's really the case AND you don't work for the Denver Broncos...... All I can say is that you're doing it wrong.

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rahim Moore

Hilarious!

RaiderH8r
01-15-2013, 07:11 PM
Man, this sounds familiar....I guess you can always tell the nuthuggers who are still butt hurt.....

Your day revolves around Tebow. Let it go. Not everything is about a Tebow. Every time your labia flares up you pull out that tired old canard.

Moore has chronically underperformed and if not for lack of competition at the position we would be in a position to move him immediately. As it is we're not but his replacement needs to be brought in. He's not a ball hawk and the only reason he can play the run like he did this year is because Champ played his man all year and freed Moore up to do any number of things. So Moore's improvement was due to the fact that Champ took away a huge portion of the field and Moore didn't have to be tied to playing his responsibilities like most safeties in the league and even then he peaked at mediocrity. Can't ball hawk average in run support can't maintain position, situationally unaware, and lacking in even rudimentary understanding of basic elements of the position. Yeah, I think we should look for better talent at the position. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me Moore is the lead pipe lock best we can do?

spiralism
01-15-2013, 08:37 PM
Redemption. Let the kid have his shot.

spdirty
01-15-2013, 09:07 PM
Redemption. Let the kid have his shot...On another team.

Fixed.

Requiem
01-15-2013, 09:12 PM
Rahim Moore isn't a case of addition by subtraction. What upgrades in FA would be available? Worth another high draft pick? **** happens. Let it ride one more ****in' year. DREAM OOOON.

Rock Chalk
01-16-2013, 05:36 AM
Ummm...no...

Rahim Moore did NOT cost us the game. Poor playcalling, sub-par offensive play, and poor officiating cost us the game....

Wrong.

Poor defense - mostly from Champ Bailey - cost us the game.

The offense put up 21 points, the special teams added another 14 points and Champ Bailey and the "efense" gave up 38 ****ing points.

That being said, in crunch time they gave Manning TWO chances to win the game and he choked.

spdirty
01-16-2013, 09:14 AM
Rahim Moore isn't a case of addition by subtraction. What upgrades in FA would be available? Worth another high draft pick? **** happens. Let it ride one more ****in' year. DREAM OOOON.

Quinton Carter. Champ Bailey. Or someone that knows basic technique in crunch time. Someone like that won't cost much.

Gutless Drunk
01-16-2013, 06:39 PM
32010

gyldenlove
01-16-2013, 07:10 PM
A couple of things here about Moore:

1. He is Not a good NFL safety. He is what coaches call serviceable as a FS. Did he improve this year? Absolutely. He was a much more reliable tackler. However, he was shaky all year in pass coverage and had a solid pass rush hide his deep ball liabilities for most of the season.

2. The lack of coaching for Moore was atrocious. JDR, Ron Milus, and Sam Garnes are not sleeping well at all right now for botching that rush three, five under, 3 deep play where the DAMN safety never flipped his hips to keep depth and tried to backpedal to a deep ball.

Mistake 1: WTF does he care about the TE in front of HIM?!? You want them to throw it in front of you Dumbass! That eats up clock and stops playcalling options!

Mistake 2:Why was he reading the underneath routes at all in that situation? Poor coaching, and even worse situational awareness by a kid who is over his head covering deep still.

Mistake 3: He let the WR get deeper than him. This alone is unforgivable for a safety anytime. That is a safety's primary job in coverage all the time. In that situation, he deserves to be ridiculed for that alone.

Mistake 4: What ******g technique was that? He never once flipped his hips and tracked the ball while running backwards. Then, he tried to make a play on the ball instead of making a tackle! That is the selfish part, and its un-disciplined coaching too. He made the same error earlier this year and no one corrected it, because he did it again at the worst possible time.

3. Coaching blunders: Why not invite the short throw and rush 4? It is not like they were getting any pressure all game anyway and could even think they could with just 3! Then, play quarters coverage all day with umbrella principles to funnel all catches in bounds? WTF are you playing that crap coverage in the first place?

So, while Moore totally blew it, I do not want to hear he makes that play in practice 99 out of a 100 times! There is no way he could by making 3 mental errors and 2 technical errors on that play. He showed he had no idea how to play that coverage and he proved it to the detriment of the team.

I told you guys all year, the stories of his improvement were overrated. I admitted he became a much more solid tackler. However, no one wanted to listen when I brought up how undisciplined he was in coverage and how occasionally lost he was. Unfortunately for all of us, Rahim showed us just how bad that really was on that one play.

The one thing about his technique you didn't touch on is that he he lines up near the hash mark in a 3 safety cover 3 look, in that situation you have to be aware that the sideline is the most dangerous place, any seam or post route you will have help from the middle safety (Leonard), but on a sideline pass you are going to be alone so you have to start going wide and work back inside, instead of starting inside and work out.

I fully agree his coverage was never good this year, he is slow to read and react and doesn't close on the ball well at all - sadly we don't really have any safeties on the active roster right now who does that well.

Putting the entire blame on Rahim Moore for that one play is revisionist history, while it is clear that Tony Carter is responsible for preventing the come-back route he shouldn't stop early and give the WR a 10 yard cushion, even against a deep come-back Flacco could put that ball behind Carter for a completion.

gyldenlove
01-16-2013, 07:15 PM
Wrong.

Poor defense - mostly from Champ Bailey - cost us the game.

The offense put up 21 points, the special teams added another 14 points and Champ Bailey and the "efense" gave up 38 ****ing points.

That being said, in crunch time they gave Manning TWO chances to win the game and he choked.

The offensive line, Peyton Manning, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Matt Prater, Tony Carter, Champ Bailey, Mike Adams, Rahim Moore, the defensive front all had important parts to play in grasping defeat from the jaws of victory.

The offensive line was bullied all game and created no space for running and in the 2nd half got pushed around in pass blocking. Your QB can not give the ball away 3 times, leading to 17 points and expect to win. Thomas had been catching the ball so well all season and then he goes and has 2 nasty drops that turned 1st downs into 4th downs. Eric Decker deflected the INT TD up into the air for no good reason. Prater decided to kick the entire 42 yard line instead of just the ball on that FG, had he made it we would have won. Carter, Bailey, Adams and Moore conspired to allow 3 long TDs. The defensive front got 0 pressure but did manage to commit several stupid penalties and failed to bottle up the run in the 2nd half.

Trindon Holliday, Jacob Tamme and David Bruton are the only 3 Bronco players I can think of who really did everything that was asked of them.