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TheReverend
01-13-2013, 08:07 AM
We all got caught up in the media hype. I don't think this is "OMG Peyton Manning sucks in the playoffs!" at all... yes, he certainly choked last night (among others), but when push comes to shove, the Denver Broncos weren't nearly as good as we though after months of buying into the Peyton Manning inspired media hype.

Broncos 21 Falcons 27

Texans 31 Broncos 25

Broncos 21 Patriots 31

Broncos 31 Bengals 23

Broncos 34 Ravens 17

Broncos 35 Ravens 38

^ those are the ONLY teams we played with winning records... 2-4 against "good" teams, and Baltimore was extremely beat up by injuries at the time of the first match-up.

For several of those other games (Atl, Houston and NE), the game wasn't NEARLY as close as the final score indicates.

Bottom line: The best team we beat was the Cincinnati ****ing Bengals.

Time to address serious deficiencies in the roster and hope our aging "studs" can squeeze another season of competitive play out of their sagging bodies.

TonyR
01-13-2013, 08:12 AM
Yup. Pretty much what I've been saying in a few threads, although I forgot about the Bengals win. We were very good. Just not 13-3, #1 seed good. Still, we should have won this game. Major disaster of a choke job.

Eldorado
01-13-2013, 08:14 AM
S
RB
Interior OL
MLB
DL

In that order.

B-Large
01-13-2013, 08:15 AM
I figured we would win against the Ravens, but would get destroyed against the Pats....

Maybe a powder puff Division and weak schedules are not so great after all

winstoncup bronco
01-13-2013, 08:21 AM
We all got caught up in the media hype. I don't think this is "OMG Peyton Manning sucks in the playoffs!" at all... yes, he certainly choked last night (among others), but when push comes to shove, the Denver Broncos weren't nearly as good as we though after months of buying into the Peyton Manning inspired media hype.

Broncos 21 Falcons 27

Texans 31 Broncos 25

Broncos 21 Patriots 31

Broncos 31 Bengals 23

Broncos 34 Ravens 17

Broncos 35 Ravens 38

^ those are the ONLY teams we played with winning records... 2-4 against "good" teams, and Baltimore was extremely beat up by injuries at the time of the first match-up.

For several of those other games (Atl, Houston and NE), the game wasn't NEARLY as close as the final score indicates.

Bottom line: The best team we beat was the Cincinnati ****ing Bengals.

Time to address serious deficiencies in the roster and hope our aging "studs" can squeeze another season of competitive play out of their sagging bodies.

I agree with this.

Thing is though, if you had posted this a week ago, you would've gotten a ton of **** for it. You wouldn't be a real fan if you brought this up.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 08:22 AM
S
RB
Interior OL
MLB
DL

In that order.

Haha, CLEARLY we have no issues at CB...

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 08:23 AM
I agree with this.

Thing is though, if you had posted this a week ago, you would've gotten a ton of **** for it. You wouldn't be a real fan if you brought this up.

I talked about it on the podcast about a month ago and got **** for it. Then I bought into it myself.

C'est la vie.

WolfpackGuy
01-13-2013, 08:25 AM
Great teams step on the other team's throats and finish them off.

Even with the dubious officiating, the Broncos had MANY chances to put the game away but just kept finding ways to let the Ratbirds hang around.

go_broncos
01-13-2013, 08:26 AM
We should have won the game.We are clearly the better team.
Fox,Mccoy, Defense, Manning in playoff's was the reason we lost the game.
I thought we won the game when we got the ball.
Fox is really conservative..He reminds me of Marty.

Cito Pelon
01-13-2013, 08:27 AM
I didn't think the Ravens could match us score for score. But they did. Just couldn't put them away despite two TD returns by Holliday. Balt played better D than we did. There was one play where Rice got outside and all the Bronco D guys were caught crashing the middle, and there's Rice along the sideline with 4 Bronco players five yards away from him.

winstoncup bronco
01-13-2013, 08:28 AM
I talked about it on the podcast about a month ago and got **** for it. Then I bought into it myself.

C'est la vie.

Really, that's how it was for alot of people, myself included. I knew we hadn't really beaten anyone elite, but I kinda figured it was okay, that the team was finetuning itself for a big run. You can only play what the schedule brings, right?

I said it another thread that this loss is worse than '96 because that team didn't have nearly the questions going into the offseason that this one does. We had a chance to steal one this year and blew it.

TonyR
01-13-2013, 08:30 AM
...Before the season, when I suggested that the Broncos would fail to live up to expectations this season, the deciding factor between the numbers (which predicted regression) and the impact of Peyton Manning (which suggested number-defying improvement) was the schedule the Broncos were likely to face. Denver's out-of-division schedule included the Patriots and Texans, as well as the AFC North and the NFC South, which looked to be two of the best divisions in football. More disconcertingly, the bulk of those tough matchups was focused during the first half of the season.

As it turned out, Denver's schedule wasn't very difficult at all.1 It's true that the truly difficult matchups for the Broncos took place during the first half, with Denver starting 2-3 via losses against teams that each won 12 or more games, including losses to both the Patriots and Texans. The AFC North and the NFC South? They didn't turn out to be so tough. Pittsburgh, Carolina, and New Orleans ended up serving as three of the league's most disappointing teams, Cleveland was about as bad as expected, and Baltimore and Tampa Bay were little match for the Denver onslaught. The AFC West was also worse than most people's wildest expectations.

The result was a schedule that was actually well below average. Projected to have the league's most difficult schedule before the season by Football Outsiders, the Broncos instead had the NFL's second-easiest schedule in 2012. And as you might expect, with those 12-win teams out of the way after the first few weeks, the schedule really got easy in the second half.

How easy? Well, consider this: The eight matchups Denver played in the second half were against teams who went a combined 44-84 this year. That's like the Broncos getting to play a bunch of 5-11 and 6-10 teams for an entire half-season. Since 1990, that's tied with another team for the easiest second-half slate enjoyed by a playoff participant across the entire era. Even if we adjust for the Broncos going 8-0 and take those losses off of those teams' records, Denver's strength of schedule in the second half was tied for the second-lowest in 23 years.http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8831246/bill-barnwell-saturday-slate-nfl-playoff-games

^An article I posted a few days ago, which most probably didn't read...

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2013, 08:30 AM
Maybe a powder puff Division and weak schedules are not so great after all

It's worked out pretty well for the Pats for the last 10+ years.

CEH
01-13-2013, 08:32 AM
This team was good enough this year to make it to the Super Bowl

I firmly believe this but you have to have 53 players moving in the right direction
When someone wants to be the hero and gives up a 70 yard TD with 40 seconds left I'm not sure any type of player upgrade can solve that problem unless you assume the only way to win in the playoffs is to blow teams out and then you need more players but that is not really reality

I'd say it was more about Denver really didn't have any close games this year to prepare the team mentally for what was about to happen in the playoffs then to say the team was not Super Bowl worthy

Eldorado
01-13-2013, 08:34 AM
Haha, CLEARLY we have no issues at CB...

You could talk me into CB over DL, but be realistic. The most glaring deficiency was safety play.

WolfpackGuy
01-13-2013, 08:34 AM
The game and potential championship were there for the taking.

They were just too stupid to take them!

Two blown coverages/assignments by the safeties allowed 2 LONG TD's, and there was almost a third if not for an overthrow.

CEH
01-13-2013, 08:35 AM
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8831246/bill-barnwell-saturday-slate-nfl-playoff-games

^An article I posted a few days ago, which most probably didn't read...

Still waiting for the articles that says Denver is vunerable to the 70 yard hail mary passes at the end of the game

fwf
01-13-2013, 08:35 AM
We're not as well coached as we thought we were. I'll give you that.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2013, 08:35 AM
You could talk me into CB over DL, but be realistic. The most glaring deficiency was safety play.

On one play. If that one stupid, stupid play doesn't happen, nobody's saying that safety is our #1 weakness.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-13-2013, 08:38 AM
I dunno, obviously we have weaknesses, every team does, but we played a dog**** game yesterday and still should have won it. A few random events didn't go our way and that was that. I think this is a contending team and there's no real fatal flaw. Had we gotten blown out that would be one thing, but a game in frigid temps that we shoulda won and lost at the end to what was essentially a Hail Mary. That's football. It we had essentially the same exact team next year I'd feel confident that we can contend. I'm looking forward to seeing who we will add and subtract, but we are a good team. And as long as 18 is taking snaps, I feel confident (despite what many on this board are saying now)

eddie mac
01-13-2013, 08:39 AM
I'd wholeheartedly agree with this if we hadn't just played our worst game of the season on the biggest stage. There were just too many mistakes/mental errors/uncharacteristic performances for anyone to "see this coming", because the true fact is our last 11 opponents regardless of who they were, never even came close to us on the scoreboard.

Now I'm not saying we're anywhere near a perfect team but I'm certainly not buying into this pathetic attempt to claim that we we're not worth that 13-3 record and the 1 seed in the AFC.

Sure the Falcons, Patriots and Texans beat us early in the season when Manning was just getting adjusted to his new team but that was as much a learning curve as anything else.

Fox, McCoy, Del Rio, Champ, Manning, Dumervil, Kuper. Moore etc etc all dropped the ball here and they can all coach/play a lot better than they did yesterday and they've proven it.

It certainly wasn't the first time a high seed wasn't prepared coming off a bye and it wont be the last and regardless of how poorly each unit bar Holliday played they still should've won the game bar that outrageous/never to happen ever again play from Moore.

HorseHead
01-13-2013, 08:39 AM
A couple of things:

A) Ravens are pretty good, far from a s-itty team..

B) Be honest, did you really think we would finish 13-3? Give it a month or so, relax. I actually think we'll even be better next year, possibly with a worse record. 12-4, 11-5. And make noise in the play offs, on the road.

c) Toughest part of this loss? You wake up the following morning, and you have to listen to a nation questioning the size of your team's b-lls...

eddie mac
01-13-2013, 08:41 AM
Haha, CLEARLY we have no issues at CB...

They were outstanding all season and in the previous matchup held Smith/Boldin to about 40 yards combined.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 08:41 AM
You could talk me into CB over DL, but be realistic. The most glaring deficiency was safety play.

...are you kidding me?

Champ was beaten like a drum all day for 2 easy long-distance TD strikes, numerous first downs, and on the ONE TD Moore gave up (albeit easy), Carter was beaten like a drum and jogging behind underneath.

I know it's fun to blame it on Moore because that play was dumb as ****, but our underneath coverage was easily the main contributor to the loss, with monsieur Manning's play a close second and the refs in third.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 08:44 AM
This team was good enough this year to make it to the Super Bowl

I firmly believe this but you have to have 53 players moving in the right direction
When someone wants to be the hero and gives up a 70 yard TD with 40 seconds left I'm not sure any type of player upgrade can solve that problem unless you assume the only way to win in the playoffs is to blow teams out and then you need more players but that is not really reality

I'd say it was more about Denver really didn't have any close games this year to prepare the team mentally for what was about to happen in the playoffs then to say the team was not Super Bowl worthy

Just stop. A LOT more went into losing that game than that play.

HorseHead
01-13-2013, 08:50 AM
No pressure on Flacco = bombs away....

Our DB's were great this year 'cuz we had pressure on a consistent basis. People crappin' on 18 might want to look at the two studs on defense...

broncobum6162
01-13-2013, 08:50 AM
We're not as well coached as we thought we were. I'll give you that.

Instead of Martyball its "JOHNnyball"

Archer81
01-13-2013, 08:54 AM
Bad play + bad playcalling + bad officiating = loss. It does not change what Denver did through the regular season. We do have a team going in the right direction. Add some depth and speed through the middle of the defense and see about getting a bellcow RB.

Losing sucks, but it happens. On to next year.

:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
01-13-2013, 08:56 AM
...are you kidding me?

Champ was beaten like a drum all day for 2 easy long-distance TD strikes, numerous first downs, and on the ONE TD Moore gave up (albeit easy), Carter was beaten like a drum and jogging behind underneath.

I know it's fun to blame it on Moore because that play was dumb as ****, but our underneath coverage was easily the main contributor to the loss, with monsieur Manning's play a close second and the refs in third.

I'm wondering why Champ was playing slot so much, and Carter at LCB.

CEH
01-13-2013, 08:57 AM
Just stop. A LOT more went into losing that game than that play.

So 70 yard Hail Marys when the player himself admits to trying to be a hero instead of doing his job is just another play in the game

Not buying it. Your premise is Denver is not physically able to compete in the AFC

Sorry you can't convince me to ignore the ultimate mental blunder in Denver Broncos history as "we should have seen this coming"

OABB
01-13-2013, 08:59 AM
I did. This team made some huge strides this year and exceeded most of our expectations. 14 in a row is a lot to ask... I'm confident we will be much better next year.

We were not a good team for many years... It takes time.

Remember "suck for luck" was 16 months ago?

We are building a good team, and the window is open for a couple more years.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 09:00 AM
So 70 yard Hail Marys when the player himself admits to trying to be a hero instead of doing his job is just another play in the game

3 turnovers by the QB, 2 TDs surrendered by a different DB, zero passrush from our "all world" rushers were all even larger problems, so yeah.

Not buying it. Your premise is Denver is not physically able to compete in the AFC

No, my premise is that Denver DIDN'T compete against the upper tier of the NFL. And my premise is supported by actual facts.

2-4 against winning record teams.

Sorry you can't convince me to ignore the ultimate mental blunder in Denver Broncos history

Who's saying "ignore it"? It was colossally stupid and one of the worst safety plays I've ever seen.

YOU, on the other hand, are pinning the entire loss on it in several threads now and acting like an idiot.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 09:06 AM
I'd wholeheartedly agree with this if we hadn't just played our worst game of the season on the biggest stage. There were just too many mistakes/mental errors/uncharacteristic performances for anyone to "see this coming", because the true fact is our last 11 opponents regardless of who they were, never even came close to us on the scoreboard.

Now I'm not saying we're anywhere near a perfect team but I'm certainly not buying into this pathetic attempt to claim that we we're not worth that 13-3 record and the 1 seed in the AFC.

Sure the Falcons, Patriots and Texans beat us early in the season when Manning was just getting adjusted to his new team but that was as much a learning curve as anything else.

Fox, McCoy, Del Rio, Champ, Manning, Dumervil, Kuper. Moore etc etc all dropped the ball here and they can all coach/play a lot better than they did yesterday and they've proven it.

It certainly wasn't the first time a high seed wasn't prepared coming off a bye and it wont be the last and regardless of how poorly each unit bar Holliday played they still should've won the game bar that outrageous/never to happen ever again play from Moore.

A lot of this has merit

...and then you remember we were spotted FOURTEEN points by Holliday in the process of setting NFL history and it completely ****s all over your post.

CEH
01-13-2013, 09:16 AM
3 turnovers by the QB, 2 TDs surrendered by a different DB, zero passrush from our "all world" rushers were all even larger problems, so yeah.



No, my premise is that Denver DIDN'T compete against the upper tier of the NFL. And my premise is supported by actual facts.

2-4 against winning record teams.



Who's saying "ignore it"? It was colossally stupid and one of the worst safety plays I've ever seen.

YOU, on the other hand, are pinning the entire loss on it in several threads now and acting like an idiot.

Didn't complete. You mean didn't blow Baltimore out. Show me the "I saw that coming " article that say don't let Flacco have the ball with 70 seconds to go with no timeouts and 80 yards to go just to tie the game and send it into overtime. Oh my god Denver is in trouble and didn't complete well enough to win the game in regulation


I'm saying I can find you articles that say this is exactly what Elway had in mind at the start of training camp so yes it did comes down to one bone head play

Read all my posts. I said the offense was at fault for not extending the lead when they had multiple opportunites to do so but in the end the offense gave the defense the lead with 70 seconds and 80 yards to go and no timeouts.
If that is not competing then I don't know what is

Like I said convince others but this is a flawed premise to begin with you can't convince me you have anything tangible besides turnovers and a 70 yard Hail Mary which is not tangible evidence to say "you say this coming."

Sounds to me like you are saying I'll take Joe Flacco with no timeouts and 80 yards to go over the Denver defense every day because Denver is not good enough to compete.

swaiy
01-13-2013, 09:17 AM
We need a guy that is disruptive up the middle. I really think that is the deciding factor between a good pass rush and a consistent one.

That is what i would like to see the most.

eddie mac
01-13-2013, 09:21 AM
A lot of this has merit

...and then you remember we were spotted FOURTEEN points by Holliday in the process of setting NFL history and it completely ****s all over your post.

Rev regardless of your hurt, anger etc etc you ****ing know this team is far better than how it played last night and as I've already stated if the rest of our team had played to anywhere near the level of intensity Trindon did then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm hurting too mate, I feel exactly like I did in 96, I did not see this coming and I dont think anyone did otherwise we wouldn't be seeing the mass suicide watch on this site right now.

I seriously think someone should call around to Kaylore's.

winstoncup bronco
01-13-2013, 09:21 AM
Didn't complete. You mean didn't blow Baltimore out. Show me the "I saw that coming " article that say don't let Flacco have the ball with 70 seconds to go with no timeouts and 80 yards to go just to tie the game and send it into overtime. Oh my god Denver is in trouble and didn't complete well enough to win the game in regulation


I'm saying I can find you articles that say this is exactly what Elway had in mind at the start of training camp so yes it did comes down to one bone head play

Read all my posts. I said the offense was at fault for not extending the lead when they had multiple opportunites to do so but in the end the offense gave the defense the lead with 70 seconds and 80 yards to go and no timeouts.
If that is not competing then I don't know what is

Like I said convince others but this is a flawed premise to begin with you can't convince me you have anything tangible besides turnovers and a 70 yard Hail Mary which is not tangible evidence to say "you say this coming."

Sounds to me like you are saying I'll take Joe Flacco with no timeouts and 80 yards to go over the Denver defense every day because Denver is not good enough to compete.

I think what he's saying is he didn't expect this be another blowout win like we were doing against inferior teams. Why aren't you questioning why, with not one but two ST scores, playing at home after a bye, it even had to come down to that?

Rohirrim
01-13-2013, 09:36 AM
I just watched that 70 yard Hail Mary about ten times. There's just no excuse for a couple of NFL DBs to be in the position that our guys were in on that play. You NEVER let the receiver get behind you when you're playing two deep. NEVER. It was a failure on a fundamental level. No excuse. And Champ is done. Time for the team to admit it and devise a graceful exit and a spot in the ROF for him. Move to safety? He's 34. Torrey Smith (a second round pick) had him for lunch. The Broncos need to take some of those dollars under the cap and go out and get a secondary. The only keeper we have is Cliff Harris. Who knows if Porter will ever recover? Adams and Carter are adios. Moore should be cut (we should know better than to draft UCLA players anyway). He'll never get the stink of that play off of him. Bolden? Who knows? Leonhard? Please. When you look at it, basically the Broncos are tissue paper thin in the secondary. Actually, it's more like a gaping hole. And we haven't had a MLB worth a damn since 2007 when Al Wilson retired.

And how about the Oline? I would trade every one them (and throw in the backups) for the Ravens' line right now. Flacco didn't even get dirty the entire game. He was untouched. Our line couldn't get one yard in three plays. Our center is 33 and there is no viable backup. Will Kuper be able to stay healthy for a season? And Moreno? Just when you need him the most, he fails the biggest. Trade him for a good free safety and draft a more durable runner. McGahee is 31. Adios, and thanks. Hillman? Can't break an NFL tackle to save his life. Then you have Stokely at 36. Thanks for everything, Brandon. We love you.

Then we get to the Dline. Vickerson is 30, Bannon 33. Backing them up are Siliga and Unrein? Ouch!

So here's how it shapes up, IMHO:

Secondary? Deep, dark chasm of doom.
DT? Gaping, festering wound. Gangrenous.
MLB? Six years in the same vacuum.
RB? Sinkhole.
Middle of the Oline? Rim busting pothole.
Slot receiver? Vacancy.

The big games expose your weaknesses.

And we haven't even gotten to some of those playcalling decisions. :pity:

CEH
01-13-2013, 09:37 AM
I think what he's saying is he didn't expect this be another blowout win like we were doing against inferior teams. Why aren't you questioning why, with not one but two ST scores, playing at home after a bye, it even had to come down to that?

This is not about style points. Denver had the f**ing lead with 70 seconds to go against a quality opponent .A team that was a fluke play last year from going to the Super Bowl.

This would be the same as saying Baltimore can't compete in the AFC because Lee Evans could not hold onto the ball. Baltimore should have saw this coming last year. Same premise.

TonyR
01-13-2013, 09:43 AM
^ Thanks, Roh, for depressing me even further...

DENVERDUI55
01-13-2013, 09:47 AM
Without looking I bet Baltimore didn't beat that many good teams either. We have a few holes just like every team and very easily could of won with D game yesterday.

DENVERDUI55
01-13-2013, 09:54 AM
I just watched that 70 yard Hail Mary about ten times. There's just no excuse for a couple of NFL DBs to be in the position that our guys were in on that play. You NEVER let the receiver get behind you when you're playing two deep. NEVER. It was a failure on a fundamental level. No excuse. And Champ is done. Time for the team to admit it and devise a graceful exit and a spot in the ROF for him. Move to safety? He's 34. Torrey Smith (a second round pick) had him for lunch. The Broncos need to take some of those dollars under the cap and go out and get a secondary. The only keeper we have is Cliff Harris. Who knows if Porter will ever recover? Adams and Carter are adios. Moore should be cut (we should know better than to draft UCLA players anyway). He'll never get the stink of that play off of him. Bolden? Who knows? Leonhard? Please. When you look at it, basically the Broncos are tissue paper thin in the secondary. Actually, it's more like a gaping hole. And we haven't had a MLB worth a damn since 2007 when Al Wilson retired.

And how about the Oline? I would trade every one them (and throw in the backups) for the Ravens' line right now. Flacco didn't even get dirty the entire game. He was untouched. Our line couldn't get one yard in three plays. Our center is 33 and there is no viable backup. Will Kuper be able to stay healthy for a season? And Moreno? Just when you need him the most, he fails the biggest. Trade him for a good free safety and draft a more durable runner. McGahee is 31. Adios, and thanks. Hillman? Can't break an NFL tackle to save his life. Then you have Stokely at 36. Thanks for everything, Brandon. We love you.

Then we get to the Dline. Vickerson is 30, Bannon 33. Backing them up are Siliga and Unrein? Ouch!

So here's how it shapes up, IMHO:

Secondary? Deep, dark chasm of doom.
DT? Gaping, festering wound. Gangrenous.
MLB? Six years in the same vacuum.
RB? Sinkhole.
Middle of the Oline? Rim busting pothole.
Slot receiver? Vacancy.

The big games expose your weaknesses.

And we haven't even gotten to some of those playcalling decisions. :pity:

You should thrown in our 4 million dollar kicker who struggles at 49 to 40 yards and chunks a fg in a big game like a 25 handicap golfer.

winstoncup bronco
01-13-2013, 10:15 AM
This is not about style points. Denver had the f**ing lead with 70 seconds to go against a quality opponent .A team that was a fluke play last year from going to the Super Bowl.

This would be the same as saying Baltimore can't compete in the AFC because Lee Evans could not hold onto the ball. Baltimore should have saw this coming last year. Same premise.

No it's not, because it's not a coincidence that when we went up quality opponents, we struggled and lost. If we were the team many thought, Manning is taking a knee at that point instead of running a play. It shouldn't have even come down to deciding when to give them the ball back.

winstoncup bronco
01-13-2013, 10:16 AM
I just watched that 70 yard Hail Mary about ten times. There's just no excuse for a couple of NFL DBs to be in the position that our guys were in on that play. You NEVER let the receiver get behind you when you're playing two deep. NEVER. It was a failure on a fundamental level. No excuse. And Champ is done. Time for the team to admit it and devise a graceful exit and a spot in the ROF for him. Move to safety? He's 34. Torrey Smith (a second round pick) had him for lunch. The Broncos need to take some of those dollars under the cap and go out and get a secondary. The only keeper we have is Cliff Harris. Who knows if Porter will ever recover? Adams and Carter are adios. Moore should be cut (we should know better than to draft UCLA players anyway). He'll never get the stink of that play off of him. Bolden? Who knows? Leonhard? Please. When you look at it, basically the Broncos are tissue paper thin in the secondary. Actually, it's more like a gaping hole. And we haven't had a MLB worth a damn since 2007 when Al Wilson retired.

And how about the Oline? I would trade every one them (and throw in the backups) for the Ravens' line right now. Flacco didn't even get dirty the entire game. He was untouched. Our line couldn't get one yard in three plays. Our center is 33 and there is no viable backup. Will Kuper be able to stay healthy for a season? And Moreno? Just when you need him the most, he fails the biggest. Trade him for a good free safety and draft a more durable runner. McGahee is 31. Adios, and thanks. Hillman? Can't break an NFL tackle to save his life. Then you have Stokely at 36. Thanks for everything, Brandon. We love you.

Then we get to the Dline. Vickerson is 30, Bannon 33. Backing them up are Siliga and Unrein? Ouch!

So here's how it shapes up, IMHO:

Secondary? Deep, dark chasm of doom.
DT? Gaping, festering wound. Gangrenous.
MLB? Six years in the same vacuum.
RB? Sinkhole.
Middle of the Oline? Rim busting pothole.
Slot receiver? Vacancy.

The big games expose your weaknesses.

And we haven't even gotten to some of those playcalling decisions. :pity:

Who cares? Didn't you hear, it's 1996. We have two Super Bowls to plan for.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 10:18 AM
Sounds to me like you are saying I'll take Joe Flacco with no timeouts and 80 yards to go over the Denver defense every day because Denver is not good enough to compete.

What the **** are you smoking?

SonOfLe-loLang
01-13-2013, 10:20 AM
No it's not, because it's not a coincidence that when we went up quality opponents, we struggled and lost. If we were the team many thought, Manning is taking a knee at that point instead of running a play. It shouldn't have even come down to deciding when to give them the ball back.

This argument would have merit if the broncos got blown out. It's a game we win if not for a fluke play. Baltimore is good and the game was close. Good teams play good teams close and honestly randomness and luck often decide the games. It didn't fall for us this time

If the broncos got their ass kicked, that would be one thing. But we didn't. We should have won. We are just as good as any team left out there. I one hundred percent believe it. Just didn't bounce our way this time

Rohirrim
01-13-2013, 10:25 AM
You should thrown in our 4 million dollar kicker who struggles at 49 to 40 yards and chunks a fg in a big game like a 25 handicap golfer.

I don't blame Prater for that kick. A 52 yard FG should never have been called in those conditions. In that kind of cold, you have a better chance with a high punt and the other guy mishandling it.

Rohirrim
01-13-2013, 10:27 AM
This argument would have merit if the broncos got blown out. It's a game we win if not for a fluke play. Baltimore is good and the game was close. Good teams play good teams close and honestly randomness and luck often decide the games. It didn't fall for us this time

If the broncos got their ass kicked, that would be one thing. But we didn't. We should have won. We are just as good as any team left out there. I one hundred percent believe it. Just didn't bounce our way this time

Frankly, I think the bogus PI call on Carter killed the Broncos momentum. That was a huge play, IMO.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 10:34 AM
Frankly, I think the bogus PI call on Carter killed the Broncos momentum. That was a huge play, IMO.

Or the leg whip on DT that went uncalled on our ONLY deep ball of the game when he had his man beat?

SO mad.

OABB
01-13-2013, 10:42 AM
Or the leg whip on DT that went uncalled on our ONLY deep ball of the game when he had his man beat?

SO mad.

I almost went Lanza on the refs on the pic six PI...

24champ
01-13-2013, 10:45 AM
On one play. If that one stupid, stupid play doesn't happen, nobody's saying that safety is our #1 weakness.


Much less, one game.

I am not a fan of dumping players based on one game. OM residents wanted to cut Knowshon after he fumbled early in the season. He's still a talented back, and we saw how much we missed him last night when he went out.

Our corners were bad last night, but we are forgetting that we didn't get ANY pass rush going throughout the game. We lost the game in the trenches. The OL had its worst game of the year, and I am not sure Kuper was a 100 percent for this game. Maybe he was too rusty and not back in game shape. Either way, he looked bad...getting manhandled all game by Ngata and at one point got completely destroyed on a block. I've never seen Kuper get destroyed like that, he just didn't look like himself. Kuper wasn't alone in crappy play, every one of our best players, played like dog **** and didn't show up. Everyone...couple that with conservative play calling and you lose.

I think our biggest needs are MLB, DL, OL, and also need a speedy WR to stretch the field.

winstoncup bronco
01-13-2013, 10:48 AM
This argument would have merit if the broncos got blown out. It's a game we win if not for a fluke play. Baltimore is good and the game was close. Good teams play good teams close and honestly randomness and luck often decide the games. It didn't fall for us this time

If the broncos got their ass kicked, that would be one thing. But we didn't. We should have won. We are just as good as any team left out there. I one hundred percent believe it. Just didn't bounce our way this time

I get what you're saying. My point is, why does it even have to come down to that fluke play? It wasn't random. They had proven time after time the ability to connect downfield. We were pretty much outplayed the entire game. Holliday kept this game from being a blowout, really. We clearly do not play the same when it's against a good team, as opposed to the Chiefs.

bronco militia
01-13-2013, 10:48 AM
the broncos were sloppy enough most of the season to see a game like this coming. But the 70 yard bomb is unforgivable. you just don't see anything like that happen in the NFL.

ZONA
01-13-2013, 11:04 AM
I don't think this is a case where we were really not that good of a team. Maybe it's easier for people to swallow what happened that way but that's not what this was. This was a monster sized choke job by a very good team. I've seen many articles all over saying basically the same thing. The Broncos had balance. A great offense, a really good defense and pretty good ST's also. In those early games, we were just coming together as a team, we made some early mistakes and got down big. We came roaring back in each of those games. We were just as good talent wise. The one thing we knew back then, we are now reminded of again. Mistakes KILL you. And I'm sorry but the other thing I think eventually killed this team was Mr. Conservatism. I can understand being conservative to some degree but the kind that Fox displayed to me was such the magnitude that I think it sent shockwaves throughout the team that there play should also be conservative. How many long throws did the Broncos attempt? How many "chances" did we take?


Looking forward - I think we need some changes. We have to get better at running the ball. Love how KM bounced back this year but knew he was on borrowed time. Seems like he can't stay healthy for more then 6 games in a row. In the end, both our backs could not play when we needed them the most. Time to draft a special RB to help give this running game some oomph. I know alot of people want a Safety but I think DT is still more important. I watched how Nata just thew Kuper around yesterday and wish we had somebody like that in the middle to disrupt things. I think we could get away with moving Champ to Safety and get Porter in Champs spot.

And yes, I know this may not be popular but I'd fire McCoy. I didn't see any creative plays at all, other then the single screen to Thomas that went for a TD. It seems like every single run play was between the tackles. No stretch plays with Hillman, no screens with Hillman. I mean, the play calling was as vanilla as you could possibly get.

troya900
01-13-2013, 11:26 AM
The first change needed is firing Fox. Just don't see how we win the big one with a Schottenheimer/Reeves conservative clone that ****s up every call at the end of the game/half. Fox just has a knack during a close game to make the absolute worst decisions.

DENVERDUI55
01-13-2013, 11:30 AM
I don't blame Prater for that kick. A 52 yard FG should never have been called in those conditions. In that kind of cold, you have a better chance with a high punt and the other guy mishandling it.

If Fox punted there the board would be screaming why not try FG? Praters leg is plenty from there as the winning kick had plenty of distance. Prater collapsed under pressure and hit worst fg attempt I've seen.

Bronco Yoda
01-13-2013, 11:31 AM
We surely had one of the easiest 2nd half schedules for sure. You can only play who you're given. But I did get the feeling late in the season that although we were starting to really jell... that fox was coasting too much. There is something to be said about keeping the pedal mashed to the floor like Beiicheat does. Constantly pushing... regardless the score or your record.

As bad as this loss hurts, I really feel there was no way we were going to match up well against the patsies next week (assuming they win against the Texans).

Rohirrim
01-13-2013, 11:54 AM
If Fox punted there the board would be screaming why not try FG? Praters leg is plenty from there as the winning kick had plenty of distance. Prater collapsed under pressure and hit worst fg attempt I've seen.

For example, a 52-yard attempt in moderate temperatures can be expected to be successful about 55% of the time. But in temperatures at or below 30 degrees, they can be expected to be successful about 30% of the time, which is about the success rate for 57-yd attempts.
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/01/temperature-and-field-goals.html

dsmoot
01-13-2013, 12:02 PM
We all got caught up in the media hype. I don't think this is "OMG Peyton Manning sucks in the playoffs!" at all... yes, he certainly choked last night (among others), but when push comes to shove, the Denver Broncos weren't nearly as good as we though after months of buying into the Peyton Manning inspired media hype.

Broncos 21 Falcons 27

Texans 31 Broncos 25

Broncos 21 Patriots 31

Broncos 31 Bengals 23

Broncos 34 Ravens 17

Broncos 35 Ravens 38

^ those are the ONLY teams we played with winning records... 2-4 against "good" teams, and Baltimore was extremely beat up by injuries at the time of the first match-up.

For several of those other games (Atl, Houston and NE), the game wasn't NEARLY as close as the final score indicates.

Bottom line: The best team we beat was the Cincinnati ****ing Bengals.

Time to address serious deficiencies in the roster and hope our aging "studs" can squeeze another season of competitive play out of their sagging bodies.

Not everyone got caught up in the 13-3 record. It was obvious to most that the playoffs were going right back through the teams that beat us. It was obvious the Ravens were not at full strength the first time through. Where were you. A number of people warned about the overconfidence, the comparisons and feelings of 96, the team was young in terms of real playoff stress and accomplishment. These playoffs required a whole new level of performance at which the Broncos were not tested. Don't mention last year.

DENVERDUI55
01-13-2013, 12:39 PM
For example, a 52-yard attempt in moderate temperatures can be expected to be successful about 55% of the time. But in temperatures at or below 30 degrees, they can be expected to be successful about 30% of the time, which is about the success rate for 57-yd attempts.
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/01/temperature-and-field-goals.html

Well yeah you can figure those numbers and it will always lead you to Marty ball. It also doesn't take into account FG in Denver are seem to play 5 yards closer. Players regularly make long FG there. With the way Fox called rest of game I'm blown away they tried FG. I know Belichek would of either went with FG or most likely went for it on 4 th down.