PDA

View Full Version : IAOFM answer to the Norv Turner question


DarkHorse30
01-09-2013, 02:33 PM
good article for IAOFM on Legwold's insistence that Norv Turner could take over if McCoy leaves. (I will admit that I thought it might be an idea....before I researched why not)http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/an-open-letter-to-jeff-legwold
Reason #2 - Norv doesn’t believe in allowing QBs to audible at the line, or to even employ check-with-me plays. He sincerely believes that any play he calls in from the sideline can work against any defensive call, and that there’s no reason to adjust anything at the line of scrimmage.

Can you honestly picture a situation where Peyton Manning isn’t empowered to audible out of a bad play, or check into a good one? How about where he would be okay with huddling on every play, and foregoing the ability to keep the same defenders on the field, at altitude, and wearing them down. It’s downright unimaginable, and that’s why I say that Norv, as good a play-caller as he may be, is the worst possible fit for Manning currently walking the Earth.

In football, there are two kinds of coaches; you have technocratic scheme guys, who think that their scheme is what wins, and you have fundamentals guys, who operate under the assumption that well-coached players do best when they keep it simple, and play fast.

Norv Turner, Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels are the first kind of coach. They’re married to their scheme, and they’re oriented toward changing players before they change that scheme. Schemes win games, and players are secondary.

John Fox, Mike McCoy, and Jack Del Rio are the second kind of coach. They take the talent that they have, coach them up, and build their strategy around maximizing the effectiveness of the players. Players win games, and schemes should suit the players.

Tombstone RJ
01-09-2013, 02:40 PM
Why more coaches aren't like Fox, McCoy and Del Rio is beyond me. Why pound a square peg into a round hole? Why not make the hole and peg match up? I think that probably all the coaches do a little of both, that is, I think Shanny is smart enough to mold his offense around the players he has, albeit, he doesn't throw the playbook out, he just maximizes certain schemes to fit the player's strengths. I think Norv Turner is smart enough to do this too, but who knows?

Greatspirits
01-09-2013, 03:07 PM
Norvy would be at the top of my list if McCoy leaves, I just hope he's patient enough to wait until after we win the Super Bowl.

CEH
01-09-2013, 03:18 PM
To suggest any OC would not want to work with Peyton Mmanning is assine
Norval will be at the top of the Broncos list if McCoy leaves. We know Shanny had talks with Peyton then pulled off the RGIII trade after Peyton rebuffed him

Bronco X
01-09-2013, 03:27 PM
Any potential OC replacement if McCoy leaves would not have more clout in determining how the offense runs than Manning. I mean if Turner is that inflexible obviously he wouldn't be hired, but I'm not sure how one can say that he is. It's hard for me to imagine a competent coach balking at working with Manning because Manning excels at calling audibles.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-09-2013, 03:30 PM
Manning runs the Manning offense. I'm not sure why we need some flashy coordinator to implement it.

CEH
01-09-2013, 03:36 PM
This site is mad because Legwold posted the possiblity in the paper and they are having a twitter war with him. Legwold has connection so someone floated the idea to him from inside Dove Valley. Doesn't mean it will come true but Legwold did not pull this out of his ass

https://twitter.com/IAOFM/status/288998769452806145

IMO, That site is a bunch of hacks. Never go there don't read the DP that much either. They are just trying to generate traffic

SonOfLe-loLang
01-09-2013, 03:40 PM
This site is mad becuase Legwold posted the possiblity in the paaper and they are having a twitter war with him. Legwold has connection so someone floated the idea to him from inside Dove Valley. Doesn't mean it will come true but Legwold did not pull this out of his ass

https://twitter.com/IAOFM/status/288998769452806145

IMO, That site is a bunch of hacks. Never go there don't read teh DP that much either. They are just trying to generate traffic

I dont find them to be "hacks" at all. Way too self congratulatory, pretty annoyingly so, but they give good insight

bowtown
01-09-2013, 03:41 PM
http://blogs.buffalonews.com/.a/6a00d83451b85a69e20133ece549d5970b-320wi

Hercules Rockefeller
01-09-2013, 03:58 PM
To suggest any OC would not want to work with Peyton Mmanning is assine
Norval will be at the top of the Broncos list if McCoy leaves. We know Shanny had talks with Peyton then pulled off the RGIII trade after Peyton rebuffed him

The trade with the Rams went down before Mike and Kyle met with Peyton.

CEH
01-09-2013, 04:07 PM
The trade with the Rams went down before Mike and Kyle met with Peyton.

Might be true but Shanahan had interest in Manning even with RGIII in tow. That was my main point. Mike would have no problem with Peyton Manning

"When you have Peyton Manning at quarterback and you have the opportunity to bring one of these two (rookie) quarterbacks in, it would be a perfect scenario," Shanahan said Wednesday at the NFL meetings.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-09-2013, 04:43 PM
I haven't seen any yourfatblogsucks.com links in a while. Figured they must have been choking on the Infallible Elway's comments ripping the McJoshie era. Thank you, John Elway.

BroncoLifer
01-09-2013, 04:55 PM
I dont find them to be "hacks" at all. Way too self congratulatory, pretty annoyingly so, but they give good insight

Sort of like Rush Limbaugh, no?

SpringStein
01-09-2013, 05:01 PM
Sort of like Rush Limbaugh, no?

Now this would make Doug's day! Hilarious!

crush17
01-09-2013, 05:06 PM
I haven't seen any yourfatblogsucks.com links in a while. Figured they must have been choking on the Infallible Elway's comments ripping the McJoshie era. Thank you, John Elway.

Is this a serious comment?

TheReverend
01-09-2013, 05:09 PM
Might be true but Shanahan had interest in Manning even with RGIII in tow. That was my main point. Mike would have no problem with Peyton Manning

"When you have Peyton Manning at quarterback and you have the opportunity to bring one of these two (rookie) quarterbacks in, it would be a perfect scenario," Shanahan said Wednesday at the NFL meetings.

What? No. Elway tells the story where he used Shanahan trading for RG3 while Peyton was in Denver and then sent him to dinner with Shanahan and asking Mike to put in a good word for them all to help entice him to sign with Denver.

24champ
01-09-2013, 05:15 PM
Rather promote Gase or bring Tom Moore in for as long as Peyton sticks around.

TheReverend
01-09-2013, 05:16 PM
Rather promote Gase or bring Tom Moore in for as long as Peyton sticks around.

^ those

Dr. Broncenstein
01-09-2013, 05:21 PM
Is this a serious comment?

Your Tebow blog sucks.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-09-2013, 06:19 PM
Sort of like Rush Limbaugh, no?

Rush Limbaugh spreads poison. Those guys break down broncos tape. And they've been right quite a bit. Yes, they can be annoying with all the "i told you so's" and whatnot, but its a valuable resource too.

KipCorrington25
01-09-2013, 06:51 PM
Manning will pick the OC he wants. Maybe not directly but any choice will be made with his recommendation and blessing.

broncosteven
01-09-2013, 07:21 PM
Norv would be better off with a QB who can't read a D, someone like Cutler.

boltaneer
01-09-2013, 08:03 PM
Norv to Denver! Make it happen!

Mogulseeker
01-09-2013, 08:18 PM
In football, there are two kinds of coaches; you have technocratic scheme guys, who think that their scheme is what wins, and you have fundamentals guys, who operate under the assumption that well-coached players do best when they keep it simple, and play fast.


McD is the former.

DarkHorse30
01-09-2013, 09:23 PM
Rush Limbaugh spreads poison. really? What's the cure? Maddow? Who knew?

Drek
01-10-2013, 05:00 AM
Do people seriously think Norv Turner wouldn't alter his approach if his QB was Peyton Manning?

Seriously?

Norv is a good OC who does very well bringing along younger QBs. I could definitely see him being a target for them, with the assumption that he helps Manning do what Manning sees as best while coaching up Osweiler.

That is my expectation if McCoy leaves, that Elway will use the open OC job to get a high level QB mentor for Osweiler. He wants his hand picked successor to hit the ground running in a few years.

Ray Finkle
01-10-2013, 06:54 AM
My main problem with IAOFM is how they have to boast how great they are.....If you're that great, you never need to say it.....

Some of their analysis is a good read but some of it is ego bloating bleh.

I've wanted Norm for months now. Let Manning do his thing and allow Norv to groom Brock.....

BroncoInferno
01-10-2013, 07:15 AM
To suggest any OC would not want to work with Peyton Mmanning is assine
Norval will be at the top of the Broncos list if McCoy leaves. We know Shanny had talks with Peyton then pulled off the RGIII trade after Peyton rebuffed him

Of course any OC would want to work with Manning...provided he is willing to adapt to their particular system. The point is that Manning probably would not want to work with just any OC. The point of the article is that guys like Norv have a specific system that they've operated for years and believe in. Would Norv be willing to toss out his system for Manning? Would he be willing to give Manning the autonomy to audible out of his plays when he hasn't done that in the past? Manning isn't going to want to start over from scratch with Norv's system. That's why a big name OC probably isn't coming here.

BroncoInferno
01-10-2013, 07:20 AM
Do people seriously think Norv Turner wouldn't alter his approach if his QB was Peyton Manning?

Seriously?

No, I don't. He hasn't changed his approach since he was with the Cowboys in the 90s. The hallmark of his system is a vertical passing attack that works off play-action. Also, keep in mind that OCs for Manning are generally viewed as his puppets...hence why people refer to the "Manning offense." (see some of the posts on this very board regarding McCoy). You're underestimating the ego of a guy like Norv who has been successful doing things one way for decades.

TonyR
01-10-2013, 07:52 AM
I dont find them to be "hacks" at all. Way too self congratulatory, pretty annoyingly so, but they give good insight

Agree. I don't think there's even a close second when it comes to quality sources of Broncos material. They do really good work.

TonyR
01-10-2013, 07:56 AM
I haven't seen any yourfatblogsucks.com links in a while. Figured they must have been choking on the Infallible Elway's comments ripping the McJoshie era. Thank you, John Elway.

Other than the fact they they covered this completely, you're exactly right!

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/john-elway-mike-mccoy-teaches-old-dog-manning-new-tricks

CEH
01-10-2013, 10:28 AM
Of course any OC would want to work with Manning...provided he is willing to adapt to their particular system. The point is that Manning probably would not want to work with just any OC. The point of the article is that guys like Norv have a specific system that they've operated for years and believe in. Would Norv be willing to toss out his system for Manning? Would he be willing to give Manning the autonomy to audible out of his plays when he hasn't done that in the past? Manning isn't going to want to start over from scratch with Norv's system. That's why a big name OC probably isn't coming here.

Where is the proof that Norval is this dictator who did not give Troy Aikman or Phillip Rivers the ability to auible at the LOS?

I mean this is one of the main premises behind why Norval and PFM will not work well together correct? If they have it that would be great otherwise its pure conjecture on their part

Their fight with Legwold seems petty and I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish. Legwold himself tweeted he has spoken with someone ( at Dove Valley most likely) about the possible interest in Norval.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-10-2013, 10:35 AM
Other than the fact they they covered this completely, you're exactly right!

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/john-elway-mike-mccoy-teaches-old-dog-manning-new-tricks

Didn't read. Lol.

TonyR
01-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Their fight with Legwold seems petty and I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish.

Agree, for some reason they take every opportunity to bash Lewold and Klis. But, to their credit, they're often correct. And they'll also take every opportunity to tell you they were correct. You haters will love this:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/the-2012-iaofm-brag-sheet

(we know, Dr. Bronc, you will continue to hate something you don't read...)