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Bacchus
01-08-2013, 11:12 AM
Carryover rules impact cap strategy

The Miami Dolphins have $35.8 million, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers $31.3 million, the Jacksonville Jaguars $22.1 million, the Buffalo Bills $20.6 million and the Tennessee Titans $19.4 million.

On the negative side, the New York Jets are $19.4 million over the cap. The Dallas Cowboys are $18.2 million over, the New Orleans Saints $14.7 million over and the Carolina Panthers $11.8 million over.


For chart and list of all teams cap numbers: http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8822266/nfl-mailbag-carryover-rules-impact-cap-strategy

Bacchus
01-08-2013, 11:13 AM
Great news for Broncos, they need to stay away from expensive FA, draft wisely and start trying to re-sign their own players.

I imagine DJ, Mayes and Porter will be gone creating more cap space.

Bmore Manning
01-08-2013, 11:15 AM
Where's Lonestar??? There's almost that $20 million that I mentioned in the draft forum.

SlyEli
01-08-2013, 11:30 AM
would love to see them use some money to sign Welker this offseason. The offense lacks quickness at the receiver position. Stokely has been solid but he'll be 37 next season. A Manning to welker connection would be tough to stop, hopefully he can be acquired for a decent price.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-08-2013, 11:31 AM
Great news for Broncos, they need to stay away from expensive FA, draft wisely and start trying to re-sign their own players.

I imagine DJ, Mayes and Porter will be gone creating more cap space.

Porter is a UFA, he's not being counted as it is.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 11:34 AM
Where's Lonestar??? There's almost that $20 million that I mentioned in the draft forum.

I'm here and frankly I stand by what I have said all along, there maybe lots of money under the cap but Pat has a budget.

Where do you think the $11,500,000.00 carry over come from?

Yep this years salary cap, that was not spent.

I have no reason to think Pat will allow John to go mikey on him and spend every dime.

I also beleive that as states before those three money hogs will be cut. Or restructured for a lot less

ZONA
01-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Great news for Broncos, they need to stay away from expensive FA, draft wisely and start trying to re-sign their own players.

I imagine DJ, Mayes and Porter will be gone creating more cap space.

Yes. As well as drafting good, I like how our player development has come along. That plays such a huge part in this. Billycheat is one of the best at this. Drafting good players with higher potential is key but if you're not improving those players once they get to your team, they won't turn out to be much more then the great college players they were when drafted. I see alot of players on this team that have improved just over the 2 years Fox and Elway have been here. So player development is just as critical as drafting well.

BroncoMan4ever
01-08-2013, 11:43 AM
Great news for Broncos, they need to stay away from expensive FA, draft wisely and start trying to re-sign their own players.

I imagine DJ, Mayes and Porter will be gone creating more cap space.
That is what I am loving about the Elway regime. He brings in solid free agents on short deals for low money to use as stop gaps while a drafted player develops. Aside from Peyton every deal is extremely manageable. Even in a win now situation, Elway is putting together a team that will be competitive for a long time even after Peyton is gone

socalorado
01-08-2013, 11:44 AM
would love to see them use some money to sign Welker this offseason. The offense lacks quickness at the receiver position. Stokely has been solid but he'll be 37 next season. A Manning to welker connection would be tough to stop, hopefully he can be acquired for a decent price.

Younger and just as good. And is also an UFA.
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Danny-Amendola.jpg

lonestar
01-08-2013, 11:46 AM
Porter is a UFA, he's not being counted as it is.

Iirc we only have some 35 players under contract for next year.

A lot of that money will be required to finish out the team. As well as again IIRC about 7 million will be needed on rookie contracts both for the coming year as well as the prorated portion of any signing bonuses.

So that whooping 18 mil will,soon be gone.

Mountain Bronco
01-08-2013, 11:53 AM
Iirc we only have some 35 players under contract for next year.

A lot of that money will be required to finish out the team. As well as again IIRC about 7 million will be needed on rookie contracts both for the coming year as well as the prorated portion of any signing bonuses.

So that whooping 18 mil will,soon be gone.

Why are you so consistently negative regarding the Broncos. Enjoy the ride dude.

gyldenlove
01-08-2013, 11:55 AM
Younger and just as good. And is also an UFA.
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Danny-Amendola.jpg

He will be franchise tagged, he is the only thing that offense has going for it.

g6matty
01-08-2013, 11:57 AM
Why are you so consistently negative regarding the Broncos. Enjoy the ride dude.

Hilarious! hes retarded just skip over his posts

bronco militia
01-08-2013, 11:58 AM
so bowlen is still broke?

bpc
01-08-2013, 12:01 PM
It's a great situation for us. We can be choosy on adding a starter or two in FA that will want to make a championship run w/ Peyton Manning. I don't think we need to blow out the 18 million but take care of our own, look for some guys on the cheap that will contribute at positions like WR, TE, OL and DT. I think that I would buy Glenn Dorsey and give him a chance to resurrect his career playing in a 4-3. That would be a prudent pickup IMO.

BroncoMan4ever
01-08-2013, 12:01 PM
Iirc we only have some 35 players under contract for next year.

A lot of that money will be required to finish out the team. As well as again IIRC about 7 million will be needed on rookie contracts both for the coming year as well as the prorated portion of any signing bonuses.

So that whooping 18 mil will,soon be gone.
That 18 million will also go up. Expect restructured deals and releases of at least a few guys. And with Elway's way of building the team, I'd wager we get through free agency, the draft and re-sign a few of our guys and have at least 5 million in cap space

BroncoInferno
01-08-2013, 12:01 PM
Neither Welker nor Amendola are signing with Denver to be the #3 WR behind Thomas and Decker when they can be a #1 or at worst #2 somewhere else.

COWheatGrower
01-08-2013, 12:09 PM
Aside from Peyton every deal is extremely manageable.

All teams have committed a sizeable chunk of their cap space towards compensating the quarterback.

Critics rip the Peyton contract all the time, but Denver paid market value for a four-time MVP. That's the going rate. I think they got a heck of a deal, too. He's worth every penny they are paying him.

After Peyton at $18 million, Sam Bradford (15.595 million), Philip Rivers ($15.310 million) and Michael Vick ($13.9 million) are the No. 2-4 highest paid QBs in terms of 2012 cap hits.

Bronco Yoda
01-08-2013, 12:17 PM
Raiders 4.5mil in the hole already... bwahahaaaaa

Doggcow
01-08-2013, 12:18 PM
I would be cool with spending money on Vet Offensive players and using all our draft picks on Defensive players to build for "After Manning"

Kaylore
01-08-2013, 12:33 PM
Iirc we only have some 35 players under contract for next year.

A lot of that money will be required to finish out the team. As well as again IIRC about 7 million will be needed on rookie contracts both for the coming year as well as the prorated portion of any signing bonuses.

So that whooping 18 mil will,soon be gone.

No. That's prorated and doesn't count against it as one lump sum. There are some free agents, but none are terribly expensive. Hopefully we can use some money to upgrade. With the team the way it is, a lot of older free agents looking for a ring are going to be willing to come here on the cheap.

NFLBRONCO
01-08-2013, 12:33 PM
I would be cool with spending money on Vet Offensive players and using all our draft picks on Defensive players to build for "After Manning"

Yep agree good idea

SlyEli
01-08-2013, 12:44 PM
Neither Welker nor Amendola are signing with Denver to be the #3 WR behind Thomas and Decker when they can be a #1 or at worst #2 somewhere else.

I think welker would rather be a complimentary part of a Super Bowl caliber offense (like he has been the past few years) than a number one receiver on a lousy team. The bigger concern is whether the broncos could afford him when other teams are offering welker number one money. Especially with decker's contract up soon (this offseason?)

I believe Percy harvin is a free agent this offseason too, but he would be even more expensive. Maybe tavon Austin will be available at the end of the first round

Binkythefrog
01-08-2013, 12:49 PM
I'd rather the money be spent elsewhere than a 3rd slot receiver. Most teams don't have high quality nickel backs and with a team's two best CB's usually lined up against Thomas and Decker I think even an average slot receiver could get big yards with Manning.

I think the productivity difference of a slot receiver getting little money (Broncos version of Anthony Gonzales/Austin Collie) vs. a star is low especially in a Manning/Brady offense. It's why I don't think the Patriots value Welker a lot and are willing to let him go because they feel they should use their money for bigger productivity gains per dollar at other positions. They have Brady - who will more than compensate for a slight reduction in quickness at the slot receiver position with good line calls and accurate throws. Put Welker vs Stokely with a quarterback like say Blaine Gabbert - and I doubt you see much difference in production - both would have terrible numbers. (Welker is making 9.7 M this year - Stokely 1M). Now I think the Patriots signed Welker to a big deal because of familiarity/prior service etc.. but I doubt they keep him.

I think the Broncos and Elway are thinking along these lines - why pay 8.7M more a year for maybe a couple more tds and 200 yards more receiving in the slot position instead of using that 5M to get a defensive lineman that reduces average yards per carry by say .5 (which may contribute to more wins)? I'm pulling these numbers out of my you know what because I don't want to look up salaries/productivity numbers - but I'm guessing they have some analysis along this front going on.

They probably have also done an analysis thinking about future salaries and potential production - hence the saving of 18 million.

broncocalijohn
01-08-2013, 12:55 PM
would love to see them use some money to sign Welker this offseason. The offense lacks quickness at the receiver position. Stokely has been solid but he'll be 37 next season. A Manning to welker connection would be tough to stop, hopefully he can be acquired for a decent price.

Sorry but if Stokely is on the roster next season, we have hit our "white man" quoto on wide receivers. We would need to balance it out but damn if there is a couple of honkies in the backfield and one as a safety. Sorry, no room for him.
On a serious note, Welker is a complete stud that isn't afraid to go down the middle and not use aligator arms.


BTW, $20 million under the cap? Cheap owner! Signed, SoCal Bronco

How come Shanny couldnt do this job in 2012 with the same type of budget?

NFLBRONCO
01-08-2013, 12:56 PM
NE has two TE's that can take the load as well. If Decker and DMT stay 100% healthy in Manning era then I agree about WR spot. If they don't stay healthy it gets ugly fast so I'm open for another wr or two in 13.

socalorado
01-08-2013, 01:02 PM
He will be franchise tagged, he is the only thing that offense has going for it.

The Rams are just $10 million under the salary cap and franchise tagging Amendola would cost them over $10 million. St. Louis is more likely to pursue a long-term contract

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4991/danny-amendola

TheReverend
01-08-2013, 01:08 PM
Throw it at Henry Melton.

socalorado
01-08-2013, 01:11 PM
I would be cool with spending money on Vet Offensive players and using all our draft picks on Defensive players to build for "After Manning"

Exactly.
Go get an Amendola, who will jump at being able to play for multiple SBs and have Peyton throwing to him, and draft a MLB a DT and a CB with another mid round/late RB.
Shoot, Teams dont have to spend tons anymore on high draft picks, so draft a DT every 3 years! If he pans out, great! pay him.

Requiem
01-08-2013, 01:11 PM
You guys should see the thread I just made. Has all the #'s of the UFA and RFA we have, plus guys who could be casualties or candidates for restructure to save more money. Please do it. PLEASE GO TO MY THREAD YOU GUIYS!!!

BroncoMan4ever
01-08-2013, 01:45 PM
All teams have committed a sizeable chunk of their cap space towards compensating the quarterback.

Critics rip the Peyton contract all the time, but Denver paid market value for a four-time MVP. That's the going rate. I think they got a heck of a deal, too. He's worth every penny they are paying him.

After Peyton at $18 million, Sam Bradford (15.595 million), Philip Rivers ($15.310 million) and Michael Vick ($13.9 million) are the No. 2-4 highest paid QBs in terms of 2012 cap hits.
I agree I don't even count the Peyton deal as a crazy splurge free agent move, because it is a move anyone in the league in need of a QB would make.

Bacchus
01-08-2013, 02:05 PM
Why are you so consistently negative regarding the Broncos. Enjoy the ride dude.

He doesn't like the Broncos.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:08 PM
Why are you so consistently negative regarding the Broncos. Enjoy the ride dude.

Unlike some I'm facing facts. I have a business background, that required budgets and P&L statements.

Not negative at all just facing the hard truth. This is not fantasy football where ther is not salary cap.

It is the nfl and Pat since mikey blew hundreds of millions of turds and one year rental the last decade, now has a budget for John. we carry over from last year 11.5 mil which I'd guess was the limit of his budget, or it would have been spent.

As far as the ride is concerned I'm enjoying Manning and his success, just not acting like an irresponsible 5 year old telling mommy I want I want everything I see in the FA store.

Frankly I do not see loads of money to spend there.

Bacchus
01-08-2013, 02:09 PM
I disagree with trying ot sign Amedola or Welker. Draft a fast WR that is perfect for the slot. You can find him in the 2nd or 3rd round. Denver does not need to spend $10 million on a lsot WR. They need to be able to resign Clady, Miller, Woodyard, Harris when their contracts are due. Cheap FAs and draft well. Don't splurge on Welker.... Denver doesn't need him.

cutthemdown
01-08-2013, 02:10 PM
Good because Clady is going to get what close to 10 mil a yr?

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:11 PM
Hilarious! hes retarded just skip over his posts

Should let this go but who is the troll here.
I see you so far in this thread have nothing substantial to say.

Just because I called you a few times on your posts you seem to have to troll each of mine.

I see that as immaturity.

Either add something intelligent to the conversation or shut the heck up. Stop stalking my posts without rebutting them.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:16 PM
so bowlen is still broke?

I doubt he is or ever was broke.

He just wants to see return on his buck.

Something that he has not seen since 2000 or so in the FA market. I'll bet if you go back and add up all the dead money in the cap area it will be near a hundred mil. Over the last decade.

If you were Pat would you liked seeing that flushed down the toilet each year.
As a business man he has told Josh and now John they does not have the free hand in spending that previous VPs did

Swedish Extrovert
01-08-2013, 02:16 PM
I heard Tsyon Jackson will be a FA.... maybe not true, but he's already gotten paid, and grossly underperformed. I think he's better suited for 4-3, and could come in fairly cheap.

Swedish Extrovert
01-08-2013, 02:17 PM
Then again, I'd like to see us go after a #3 WR or a MLB as our top priority.

Archer81
01-08-2013, 02:18 PM
I disagree with trying ot sign Amedola or Welker. Draft a fast WR that is perfect for the slot. You can find him in the 2nd or 3rd round. Denver does not need to spend $10 million on a lsot WR. They need to be able to resign Clady, Miller, Woodyard, Harris when their contracts are due. Cheap FAs and draft well. Don't splurge on Welker.... Denver doesn't need him.


I dont think Amendola will cost $10 mil a year, but he would be a perfect slot guy. Much cheaper version of Welker, and younger.

:Broncos:

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:22 PM
That 18 million will also go up. Expect restructured deals and releases of at least a few guys. And with Elway's way of building the team, I'd wager we get through free agency, the draft and re-sign a few of our guys and have at least 5 million in cap space

Yes probably will but we may be eating some dead money space also. If they cut DJ IIRC he would cost us about 1.7 mil. If they keep him it is 7.7.

So a bit here and there adds up.

Also remember Clady is not one of those 35 I stated in the post. If anything if they resigne him that will pretty much blow the cushion when coupled with rookie salaries.

All I'm saying is the 18 mil plus a few here and there is not all that much considering we have a roster to,fill and currently that stands at 18 more folks at minimum not counting all those on IR next year.

I'm just being realistic, hell I'd love all those guys also but where is the moey going to come from.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:31 PM
No. That's prorated and doesn't count against it as one lump sum. There are some free agents, but none are terribly expensive. Hopefully we can use some money to upgrade. With the team the way it is, a lot of older free agents looking for a ring are going to be willing to come here on the cheap.


I used that number as it was used in another thread while I did not put a pen to just the rookies I did go look at each players total cap number and added costs such as bonus and incentives just from what I recall it would have been pretty close to that.
Go back and add up the cost of the just last years rookies I bet it is damned close.

Crushaholic
01-08-2013, 02:35 PM
Before this devolves into a fight, I have a serious question. Under the new CBA rules, don't we have to spend 98% of the cap?

yerner
01-08-2013, 02:38 PM
elway doesn't know what he is doing

BroncoFanDoug
01-08-2013, 02:38 PM
I just shake my head at posts that suggest we should spend every nickle of cap on one or two talented FAs. It is wrong on 2 counts.

(1) You never want to spend up all your cap or you have no flexibility to respond to injuries, under-performance, etc. as the year progresses. Think Koppen.

(2) You want to sign FAs into the team weaknesses - especially in positions key to your scheme - because you get a lot more for your money upgrading from bad to great rather than good to great. In the case of the Peyton signing, the step up was huge thereby justifying the dollars spent. In the case of our wides or slots the step up would be significantly less and therefore not make as much sense.

It is always a balancing act of FAs, the draft, player development, etc. to ensure (a) your team is good enough and has enough depth everywhere and (b) is great where it needs to be to win it all while (c) retaining some flexibility. NE is great at it and early returns suggest the new Bronco regime has great promise as well. It is organizations that do this well that are consistently in the SB mix.

socalorado
01-08-2013, 02:44 PM
http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/danny_amendola_2010_10_24.jpg

Kaylore
01-08-2013, 02:47 PM
I used that number as it was used in another thread while I did not put a pen to just the rookies I did go look at each players total cap number and added costs such as bonus and incentives just from what I recall it would have been pretty close to that.
Go back and add up the cost of the just last years rookies I bet it is damned close.

Rookie contract money is dolled out to teams after the fact based on their drafts. That's the "rookie cap" they mention every year.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:53 PM
He doesn't like the Broncos.

I fear you are full, of well Bacchus.

Just because I do not fawn over mikey, his regime what it did to my team like some, well does not diminish my love of the broncos.

I look at them from a business point of view not a fantasy football owners, or madden type.

I am realistic in what can and can not be done based on the numbers I have access to.

I'm not blindly looking at players out of our reach money wise just becaus ether are studs.

Depending on what John does cutting dead wood not sure what can be done with about 18 mil., with Clady needing to be resigned unless they feel they can do,without him then we may have some money to blow on what the kiddies want.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 02:56 PM
I disagree with trying ot sign Amedola or Welker. Draft a fast WR that is perfect for the slot. You can find him in the 2nd or 3rd round. Denver does not need to spend $10 million on a lsot WR. They need to be able to resign Clady, Miller, Woodyard, Harris when their contracts are due. Cheap FAs and draft well. Don't splurge on Welker.... Denver doesn't need him.

I agree good post however this year IIRC all we HAVE TO WORRY about is Clady and Harris.

WW just signed a few year deal And unless we want to try and get a cheaper deal on Miller that is two years away.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-08-2013, 02:57 PM
Before this devolves into a fight, I have a serious question. Under the new CBA rules, don't we have to spend 98% of the cap?

Tougher team minimum spending rules go into effect in 2013. Not sure why people are crying about Bowlen not spending when it's required this coming year.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 03:09 PM
Rookie contract money is dolled out to teams after the fact based on their drafts. That's the "rookie cap" they mention every year.

Yet it all has to stay under our cap. The "dolled" out number is based on what was paid last year per slot in the draft, ( say number ten pock gets a 40 mil contract) this years gets that plus a kiss that is determined in the CBA as I understand it.

But is all has to fit under the cap. Or teams would have no reason to get better right away they could be in the top five for a few years load up on talent and then make a move. It woul come home to roost later than sooner but the top is the max we can spend on players. It includes salary, incentives, bounsus and prorated signing incentives.

It also covers those that go n IR throughout the year and all injury buyouts.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 03:11 PM
Before this devolves into a fight, I have a serious question. Under the new CBA rules, don't we have to spend 98% of the cap?

I beleive that number is 89% and it kicks in next year. Pretty sure the carry over stuff goes away at that time also.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 03:22 PM
Tougher team minimum spending rules go into effect in 2013. Not sure why people are crying about Bowlen not spending when it's required this coming year.

I'm guessing many on here have no business experience. Some may still live at home or in a dorm, still on an allowance withnavaaialibaily to call home and ask for more money.

Or they live on a credit card and do not pay the thing off each month. It is a sign of the times. Not living within a budget spend every dime live week to week.

Businesses are not like that they have to plan and budget for their revenue stream. In this case live under self imposed salary caps.

While I would love to have a roster of 20 pro bowlers you jut can not afford them all, a simple fact of life many FF owners will never get.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-08-2013, 03:33 PM
Unlike some I'm facing facts. I have a business background, that required budgets and P&L statements.

Not negative at all just facing the hard truth. This is not fantasy football where ther is not salary cap.

It is the nfl and Pat since mikey blew hundreds of millions of turds and one year rental the last decade, now has a budget for John. we carry over from last year 11.5 mil which I'd guess was the limit of his budget, or it would have been spent.

As far as the ride is concerned I'm enjoying Manning and his success, just not acting like an irresponsible 5 year old telling mommy I want I want everything I see in the FA store.

Frankly I do not see loads of money to spend there.
Bingo!

Kaylore
01-08-2013, 03:37 PM
Yet it all has to stay under our cap. The "dolled" out number is based on what was paid last year per slot in the draft, ( say number ten pock gets a 40 mil contract) this years gets that plus a kiss that is determined in the CBA as I understand it.

No, I'm not talking about player salaries. I'm talking about the per team allotment awarded after the draft to sign rookies each year. The league gives each team an amount of money just to sign their picks each year based on how many picks they had. It's usually in the range of 3-5million. The league wouldn't let a cash-strapped team not be able to sign any of their draft picks. They get that money in cap space after the draft.

BroncoMan4ever
01-08-2013, 04:56 PM
Tougher team minimum spending rules go into effect in 2013. Not sure why people are crying about Bowlen not spending when it's required this coming year.

Only spending I worry about with the Broncos isn't how much or how little we spend but rather how we spend. If it is how Elway has spent money I have no issues. Solid players at good value. My issue would be Shanahan style spending. Big money for a big name useless player

Requiem
01-08-2013, 05:30 PM
Lonestar just has to take a piss in every thread. What a goon.

Agamemnon
01-08-2013, 06:11 PM
Iirc we only have some 35 players under contract for next year.

A lot of that money will be required to finish out the team. As well as again IIRC about 7 million will be needed on rookie contracts both for the coming year as well as the prorated portion of any signing bonuses.

So that whooping 18 mil will,soon be gone.

They'll definitely need a chunk of it to re-sign Clady.

UberBroncoMan
01-08-2013, 06:23 PM
Great news for Broncos, they need to stay away from expensive FA, draft wisely and start trying to re-sign their own players.

I imagine DJ, Mayes and Porter will be gone creating more cap space.

Mays will free up $4 million. Porter frees up nothing since he had a 1 year deal. DJ gets $6 million next year and is then a FA.

I don't really see us going after anyone in FA other than someone who is cheap as hell. We're going to be in cap trouble just trying to resign the people we have over the next two years.

Agamemnon
01-08-2013, 06:27 PM
Mays will free up $4 million. Porter frees up nothing since he had a 1 year deal. DJ gets $6 million next year and is then a FA.

I don't really see us going after anyone in FA other than someone who is cheap as hell. We're going to be in cap trouble just trying to resign the people we have over the next two years.

We'll make plenty of value signings, but you're right, we almost certainly won't sign any big name FAs.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-08-2013, 06:44 PM
I'm guessing many on here have no business experience. Some may still live at home or in a dorm, still on an allowance withnavaaialibaily to call home and ask for more money.

Or they live on a credit card and do not pay the thing off each month. It is a sign of the times. Not living within a budget spend every dime live week to week.

Businesses are not like that they have to plan and budget for their revenue stream. In this case live under self imposed salary caps.

While I would love to have a roster of 20 pro bowlers you jut can not afford them all, a simple fact of life many FF owners will never get.


It's not entirely the same though. A private small business doesn't have the same rules as a sports team facing new cap rules. A budget is a bit harder for a sports team when there's a set amount the owners have to spend. The old CBA sure. But rules now state a team MUST spend up to 98% of the cap. No longer can teams hover millions below.

But I agree about not bringing in high priced talent. This team doesn't need to. They have homegrown players that have stepped up. Just full in the small holes here and there.

Philly bought the dream team and laid out a turd. Buffalo signed the highest rated D FA that resulted in nothing.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-08-2013, 06:54 PM
Only spending I worry about with the Broncos isn't how much or how little we spend but rather how we spend. If it is how Elway has spent money I have no issues. Solid players at good value. My issue would be Shanahan style spending. Big money for a big name useless player

Sullivan > Bluem

I got alot of faith in Mike Sullivan to advise Elway.

lonestar
01-08-2013, 07:53 PM
No, I'm not talking about player salaries. I'm talking about the per team allotment awarded after the draft to sign rookies each year. The league gives each team an amount of money just to sign their picks each year based on how many picks they had. It's usually in the range of 3-5million. The league wouldn't let a cash-strapped team not be able to sign any of their draft picks. They get that money in cap space after the draft.

So you are saying that this money does not fall under the total salary cap. Did I get your post correct.

Or are you saying they only allot 3-5 million per rookie class..

lonestar
01-08-2013, 07:58 PM
It's not entirely the same though. A private small business doesn't have the same rules as a sports team facing new cap rules. A budget is a bit harder for a sports team when there's a set amount the owners have to spend. The old CBA sure. But rules now state a team MUST spend up to 98% of the cap. No longer can teams hover millions below.

But I agree about not bringing in high priced talent. This team doesn't need to. They have homegrown players that have stepped up. Just full in the small holes here and there.

Philly bought the dream team and laid out a turd. Buffalo signed the highest rated D FA that resulted in nothing.

Pretty sure the CBA says 89% which is still a chunk of change. 98% would not allow for small teams to be profitable.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-08-2013, 08:03 PM
Pretty sure the CBA says 89% which is still a chunk of change. 98% would not allow for small teams to be profitable.

You are right it is 89%. Factor in the TV deal in 2014 and the cap will sky rocket. So even though its 89% that cap limit might be huge.

DBroncos4life
01-08-2013, 08:16 PM
You are right it is 89%. Factor in the TV deal in 2014 and the cap will sky rocket. So even though its 89% that cap limit might be huge.

League wide is 95 percent and per team its 89 for the 2013 seasons and beyond.

NickStixx
01-08-2013, 09:05 PM
Clady is going to get Joe Thomas type money, maybe a little less so around 9 to 9.5 million a year. So there goes half of it right away...
I do also think they will release DJ and Mays which free's up just about that much to pay Clady.
So I think we will actually have some room to do some in FA. I'm not sure what Chris Harris is going to do next season if we don't give him a better contract. He's making peanuts right now compared to his production on the field. So look for there to be a bigger deal for him.
I also do not want them to spend it on Amendola or Welker, especially Welker actually. We don't need them. If they had to do one, I would choose Amendola.
But I think we are finally going to become like the elite teams that constantly build their team in the draft as opposed to Free Agency. That is how you build a team, and now that we have some positions solidified for a while that only helps us to grow in the draft.
Hopefully it all doesn't fall apart post Manning...

Hamrob
01-08-2013, 09:22 PM
I'm here and frankly I stand by what I have said all along, there maybe lots of money under the cap but Pat has a budget.

Where do you think the $11,500,000.00 carry over come from?

Yep this years salary cap, that was not spent.

I have no reason to think Pat will allow John to go mikey on him and spend every dime.

I also beleive that as states before those three money hogs will be cut. Or restructured for a lot lessMikey was't getting playoff game revenue for Patsy. John....has been and will continue to. How much do you think Pat gets out of 2 additonal home playoff games??? Hmmm?

lonestar
01-08-2013, 09:49 PM
Mikey was't getting playoff game revenue for Patsy. John....has been and will continue to. How much do you think Pat gets out of 2 additonal home playoff games??? Hmmm?

Frankly I do not think it matters. About playoff revenues. While it is nice to have it is not something they can budget against each year.

I suspect that most of that extra revenue will go to incentives given out to some players and mostly coaches and John not to mention Pat.

If yoi budget against it and overload the cap for next year and we take a dump then something else has to go. ..which means player get cut.


Here are the facts. We had 11.5 mil left over from 2012. Why? Because Pat does not want to spend every dime of income coming in. *

We have only 35 current players under contract. Which means that is the only money so far accounted for with that total cap space (not Pats budget, but cap space )..

We have to hire via the draft, UFA, trades and UDFA atleast 18 more bodies to fill out the 53 man roster. We will most likely have 8-10 players hit IR so those salaries have to be accounted for also.

We will most likely cut DJ and Mayes which will save us about 8mil (after dead cap hits for bonus money owed).

Which now means we have to hire 18+8 (ir)+2 (dj and Mayes) or 28 guys for under about 15.5 mil (assuming Pats budget is about the same as this year).

Not counting resigning Clady if we do. Frankly I think he will walk for more money. As unless there is something hidden under the sofa seats we do not have 9 mil a year salary plus probably another 1.9 per year or more as bonus money hit for the duration of the contract. Frankly I would think it closer to 2.5 a year for five or so years

So folks where do we get the money, for all these expensive UDFA?

lonestar
01-08-2013, 09:54 PM
League wide is 95 percent and per team its 89 for the 2013 seasons and beyond.

You know that WAS, DAL, NOL, SFO, OAK and a few more teams that are all ready over the cap will bring those few 89% teams right up to 95% on average.

Those teams will be at max values like they almost always are.

I suspect we will be somewhere in the low nineties. 91,92 or so. About where we have been since mikey was fired and the cap hell was dug out from under.

Beantown Bronco
01-09-2013, 06:20 AM
So you are saying that this money does not fall under the total salary cap. Did I get your post correct.

Or are you saying they only allot 3-5 million per rookie class..

It definitely falls under the total salary cap. It's not "in addition to" the overall cap number.

Kaylore
01-09-2013, 06:41 AM
So you are saying that this money does not fall under the total salary cap. Did I get your post correct.

Or are you saying they only allot 3-5 million per rookie class..

It isn't counted against the cap. That way teams that are up against the cap or going through a cap dump can sign their players. They look at your draft class and give you cap to sign your players. The cap doesn't go up, but that money isn't counted against the cap.

Kaylore
01-09-2013, 06:43 AM
It definitely falls under the total salary cap. It's not "in addition to" the overall cap number.

No. Well sort of no:

http://www.eagles24x7.com/columns/NFL-News-and-Notes/How-the-NFLs-Rookie-Salary-Cap-Works

The Rookie Salary Cap is often referred to as “a cap within a cap” because it limits the amount that teams can allocate to their rookies in the year they were drafted. But, beyond that, there is a lot of confusion about the Rookie Salary Cap and exactly how it works.

Even some in the media do not fully understand the mechanics of it. Some have been heard to say that it’s a totally separate pool of money that is not included in the team’s overall Cap. Others think the entire amount of the rookie Cap is included in the team’s overall Cap, meaning that teams will need that much overall Cap space to sign their rookies.

Both of those characterizations are incorrect.

The rookie Cap IS NOT a separate, distinct pool, but rather, a separate calculation and there is not a dollar-for-dollar correlation between the rookie Cap and the overall Cap. So, while all of the Salary Cap numbers of a team’s draft picks (and prorated bonus money paid to undrafted rookies) must fit under their Rookie Salary Cap, not all of that amount will impact the team’s overall Cap.
The reason for these misconceptions revolves around the Rule of 51, which dictates that, from the beginning of the league year in early March until the beginning of the season, only the top 51 “salaries” (including base salaries, roster bonuses, likely to be earned incentive, etc) and all pro-rata shares of bonus money of all players – including those outside of the top 51 - count toward the team’s overall Cap. All “dead money”, i.e. amounts that count against the Salary Cap for players who are no longer on the roster, counts as well.

This rule is necessary because, during the offseason, team rosters can number up to 90 players. As such, it would be impossible for teams to fit all of those players under the Cap. So, to counter this problem, the NFL has instituted the Rule of 51.

So, how then does the Rookie Cap actually work?

First, as way of explanation, under the CBA of 2011, all rookies receive 4-year contracts, generally with a signing bonus and often with minimum base salaries set for each year of the deal. While 1st and 2nd round picks may have base salaries of more than the minimum in years 2 through 4 of their deals, even those players will almost always receive the rookie minimum base salary during their first year. For 2012, the minimum base salary for a rookie is $390K. For Salary Cap purposes, the bonus received by the player is prorated over the 4 years of the deal and that prorated amount is added to the base salary to create the player’s Cap number.

By way of example, in 2011, let’s assume that a Team X had a rookie pool of $4.578M for their 8 draft picks. This is the team’s “rookie salary pool” and is based on the number of the team’s draft picks and where those picks were drafted.

However this doesn’t mean that Team X needed $4.578M in Cap space in order to fit their rookies under the overall Salary Cap.
Once again this is where the Rookie Cap and the Rule of 51 become intertwined – and where most of the misunderstanding regarding the Rookie Cap comes from. Since each of the 2011 draft picks had a base salary of only the 2011 rookie minimum of $375K (which is the lowest possible base salary for any player), none of the draft picks’ base salaries will actually count against the team’s overall Salary Cap under the Rule of 51 guidelines.
As such, it is only the amortized portions of the draft picks’ signing bonuses that counted against the team’s overall Salary Cap.

So, to calculate the actual impact of Team X’s 2011 draft picks on their overall Salary Cap, the Rookie Cap of $4.578M is reduced by $3M ($375K x 8), leaving an amount of only $1.578M in overall Cap space needed to accommodate the signing of rookies within the Rule of 51.

So, that is how the Year One Rookie Allocation, a.k.a Rookie Salary Cap – the “cap within a cap” – actually works and demonstrates the actual impact of the Rookie Cap on the team’s overall Salary Cap.

Once the season starts, however, the entire Cap Numbers of the rookies who make the team must be fit under the team’s overall Cap. The impact of that, though, actually operates to save the team a little bit of Salary Cap space, since the rookies are making the rookie minimum base salary and replacing players on the roster who were making more in base salary.

Mountain Bronco
01-09-2013, 07:35 AM
Unlike some I'm facing facts. I have a business background, that required budgets and P&L statements.

Not negative at all just facing the hard truth. This is not fantasy football where ther is not salary cap.

It is the nfl and Pat since mikey blew hundreds of millions of turds and one year rental the last decade, now has a budget for John. we carry over from last year 11.5 mil which I'd guess was the limit of his budget, or it would have been spent.

As far as the ride is concerned I'm enjoying Manning and his success, just not acting like an irresponsible 5 year old telling mommy I want I want everything I see in the FA store.

Frankly I do not see loads of money to spend there.


You assume a lot for having a "business" background. You assume that John would have spent 11.5 million because he had a budget. There could be a multitude of reasons why they didn't spend that money, but you assume just one. It could have been allocated to this year because they foresaw a better FA crop. They could have determined that the pieces they could have signed with that money were not worth the long term risk versus reward (my most likely scenario as Bunkley not getting resigned signals this type of thinking).

Not all businesses and especially successful businesses spend the maximum amount that they possibly can each year. Really only in sports, which are often the worst run businesses on the planet and only successful because of the popularity, does this happen.

I do agree that there are a ton of posters on here that want want want and have unrealistic expectations of what the Broncos can do in free agency draft, trades etc... but the fact remains that the Broncos have a high degree of flexibility in the upcoming year of FA compared to other teams cap situation, which in any business is a good situation. Whether they use it effectively remains to be seen.

lonestar
01-11-2013, 10:11 PM
You assume a lot for having a "business" background. You assume that John would have spent 11.5 million because he had a budget. There could be a multitude of reasons why they didn't spend that money, but you assume just one. It could have been allocated to this year because they foresaw a better FA crop. They could have determined that the pieces they could have signed with that money were not worth the long term risk versus reward (my most likely scenario as Bunkley not getting resigned signals this type of thinking).

Not all businesses and especially successful businesses spend the maximum amount that they possibly can each year. Really only in sports, which are often the worst run businesses on the planet and only successful because of the popularity, does this happen.

I do agree that there are a ton of posters on here that want want want and have unrealistic expectations of what the Broncos can do in free agency draft, trades etc... but the fact remains that the Broncos have a high degree of flexibility in the upcoming year of FA compared to other teams cap situation, which in any business is a good situation. Whether they use it effectively remains to be seen.

I do not you understood my position. I do not necessarily think John would go up to the limit if he could, just as I rarely hit the roof on my personnel budget over +40 years in business. It does happen but I beleive that Pat gave him and Josh during his time in DEN, a hard ceiling that was lower than the cap ceiling, if for no other reason to recoup sme of the loses that mikey incurred each year he was IN CHARGE..

Pat surely was telling them to spend wisely but to get the best players they could. I also,suspect they were given an editic to draft better as those players are cheaper atleast for the first four years on their contracts.

lonestar
01-11-2013, 10:28 PM
No. Well sort of no:

http://www.eagles24x7.com/columns/NFL-News-and-Notes/How-the-NFLs-Rookie-Salary-Cap-Works

As I have been saying all the while I have been posting. The rookie"cap" numbers, as well as all players on the final squad as well as those that get placed on IR as well as PUP players have to fit under the salary cap when the season starts.

So if my math is correct 35(under contract for next year) + 18 ( needed to reach roster total) +any placed on IR at any point in the season have to fit under the salary cap at the end of the year.

Now the rookies (probably 7) and 11 other players fall into that 18 needed to field a team all have to come in under that 18.5 mil salary cap number.

And since we know that Pat has not allowed either Josh or John to spend that full value. I will guess that last year 11.5 will be the cushion that Pat wants under the cap. Again if my math is correct we will have 7 mil to sign those 18 players we need to, to reach our roster levels.

Now there are some gyrations that can be done to save money like cutting existing players, but when you do that you still have to replace them and their bonus money (left Orr proration) comes due and is taken out of the cap. For example if we cut DJ we lose his 6 mil salary but have to account for his 1.7 bonus money therefore it is a net savings of 4.3 mil and we still have to replace his body.. For me that is a no brainer. He is at best a backup WLB and we already have two players making less than his 4.3 doing that.

Hope this concludes this conversation.

DBroncos4life
01-11-2013, 10:29 PM
You assume a lot for having a "business" background. You assume that John would have spent 11.5 million because he had a budget. There could be a multitude of reasons why they didn't spend that money, but you assume just one. It could have been allocated to this year because they foresaw a better FA crop. They could have determined that the pieces they could have signed with that money were not worth the long term risk versus reward (my most likely scenario as Bunkley not getting resigned signals this type of thinking).

Not all businesses and especially successful businesses spend the maximum amount that they possibly can each year. Really only in sports, which are often the worst run businesses on the planet and only successful because of the popularity, does this happen.

I do agree that there are a ton of posters on here that want want want and have unrealistic expectations of what the Broncos can do in free agency draft, trades etc... but the fact remains that the Broncos have a high degree of flexibility in the upcoming year of FA compared to other teams cap situation, which in any business is a good situation. Whether they use it effectively remains to be seen.
There was no one out there worth paying for which is why we kept the money.

driver
01-12-2013, 06:07 AM
As far as the ride is concerned I'm enjoying Manning and his success, just not acting like an irresponsible 5 year old telling mommy I want I want everything I see in the FA store.

Frankly I do not see loads of money to spend there.[/QUOTE]

Completely agree with this. IMO he's dead on the MONEY.There are at least 5 or 6 teams way over the caps, They either have to restructure contracts or cut vets and go with rookies( because of rookie cap rules) FA are about to be a glut in the market.

SportinOne
01-12-2013, 08:52 AM
Can we just clear up one thing?

The Patriots are not going to simply let Wes Welker walk. End of story.

As far as the guy from the Rams...if they hadn't had a glimmer of life this season I would say maybe but i'm guessing he gets re-signed very quickly.

One more thing: If finding a great slot receiver were as easy as finding "someone quick" to throw in there, Caldwell would have had an amazing year.

Here's another thing, the core of this team is young and will be together for a while. Provided we re sign Clady (I don't understand how we wouldn't), there's no one leaving that will really be missed. And heck, if DJ Williams wants to stick around and prove himself, more power to him. Great depth.

So we'll lose a bit of depth but we'll gain it back with more smart FAs, and we get to draft (probably at 32 but whatever), and we'll have an even stronger team next year!

Guys: THIS is exciting.

SlyEli
01-12-2013, 09:47 AM
As I have been saying all the while I have been posting. The rookie"cap" numbers, as well as all players on the final squad as well as those that get placed on IR as well as PUP players have to fit under the salary cap when the season starts.

So if my math is correct 35(under contract for next year) + 18 ( needed to reach roster total) +any placed on IR at any point in the season have to fit under the salary cap at the end of the year.

Now the rookies (probably 7) and 11 other players fall into that 18 needed to field a team all have to come in under that 18.5 mil salary cap number.

And since we know that Pat has not allowed either Josh or John to spend that full value. I will guess that last year 11.5 will be the cushion that Pat wants under the cap. Again if my math is correct we will have 7 mil to sign those 18 players we need to, to reach our roster levels.

Now there are some gyrations that can be done to save money like cutting existing players, but when you do that you still have to replace them and their bonus money (left Orr proration) comes due and is taken out of the cap. For example if we cut DJ we lose his 6 mil salary but have to account for his 1.7 bonus money therefore it is a net savings of 4.3 mil and we still have to replace his body.. For me that is a no brainer. He is at best a backup WLB and we already have two players making less than his 4.3 doing that.

Hope this concludes this conversation.

I don't know much about cap figures and all that jazz, but what reason would Bowlen have for staying that far under the cap each year? Why not sign and re-sign guys until we're only 1-2 million under the cap? Is it just him being cheap or what?

lonestar
01-13-2013, 03:58 PM
There was no one out there worth paying for which is why we kept the money.

While last year it may have been true.

Since mikey left PATor JOE has not allowed us to reach the cap.

Pat comment after the firing that Mikey's free spending with no results was one of his reasons for making the change. Also that future FO's would have less to spend each year.

At once the the rumor was started that Pat was broke. While he may not be rolling in cash personally I doubt he does not have the money to run the team.

If you go back and look at all the dead cap money we had each year, if you add it up I'll bet that it totaled near a hundred million. All wasted money as the players either played poorly or not at all for us mostly aging veterans with out landish contracts.

TheReverend
01-13-2013, 03:59 PM
I don't know much about cap figures and all that jazz, but what reason would Bowlen have for staying that far under the cap each year? Why not sign and re-sign guys until we're only 1-2 million under the cap? Is it just him being cheap or what?

Ha!

In b4 Socal

lonestar
01-13-2013, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE=lonestar

[QUOTE]

Completely agree with this. IMO he's dead on the MONEY.There are at least 5 or 6 teams way over the caps, They either have to restructure contracts or cut vets and go with rookies( because of rookie cap rules) FA are about to be a glut in the market.

Just like every year this happens. But again it is not like we are rolling in cash either. With only 35 guys under contract for next year only having MAX 18.5 to spend and at least 18 players to just fill out the roster.

That does not leave much n the table IF Pat allows them to go max cap.

broncosteven
01-13-2013, 04:06 PM
would love to see them use some money to sign Welker this offseason. The offense lacks quickness at the receiver position. Stokely has been solid but he'll be 37 next season. A Manning to welker connection would be tough to stop, hopefully he can be acquired for a decent price.

Upgrading speed at the slot would be good.

I think the priority should be RB, MLB, at least one if not 2 Safeties (if they don't move Champ to FS), I would take a DT that can eat 2 blockers, and we need to groom a C.

We don't have a ton of holes to fill, signing Clady should be a priority.

I hope John can use Shanny's methodology to find us a late round RB who is explosive and can help take the heat off Manning.

lonestar
01-13-2013, 04:12 PM
I don't know much about cap figures and all that jazz, but what reason would Bowlen have for staying that far under the cap each year? Why not sign and re-sign guys until we're only 1-2 million under the cap? Is it just him being cheap or what?

As I have stated before mikey drive us max cap every year. And in most he had to re-do contracts each year to get under it.

Each time the players got a nice incentive up front to do so. The following guys did it at least once. John, TD, Rod, Jake (twice or more ).

Each time they did so it just drove the following years (proration of the up front bonus for the length of the contract higher) so he was writing checks on next year or in some cases the next 3-4 years to get under the cap.

Plus mikey signed a lot of veterans rentals that were over paid, played poorly and were cut with time left on their contracts, which then that bonus money went into the dead cap money. IIRC one year it was right at 20 mil in dead money.

Pat is probably trying to recoup some of that money that was wasted and if his coaching staff can win without spending every dime why spend it all?

Hulamau
01-13-2013, 04:17 PM
After locking up Clady and seeing about an early bargain deal on Extending Von until the Earth and Mars switch orbits, we should make damn sure we lock up Speedy Gonzales Holliday for the duration!

That kid held on to the ball, made great decisions yesterday and showed he is really learning in addition to being the single most electric kick returner anywhere right now!

Has there ever been a faster return man in the NFL??? I doubt it. With continued work in the offseason on making him golden with ball security and knowing just when to run and when to fair catch it, he WILL be a major key to many wins next season.

Will likely find a way to work him in to his share of pass plays as well from Manning.

Two new very solid RBs are a must. Or at least a Terrell Davis, Alfred Morris type pick up to who can also pass protect like a demon for Manning.

Knowshon was an asset when he was healthy, but that is the thing with him. McGahee might serve one more year in a solid backup/short yardage roll, while a beefed up Hillman and a new Star RB dominate the backfield. That is a key missing piece for SB glory and would complete the Superbowl picture that Elway painted in the late 90s .. on offense at least.

A new top Corner to replace Champ while moving him to Safety ( Rahim can back up Champ for a couple years .. Champ might still have one more solid year at CB, the bad first half notwithstanding as even Champ can have bad half every now and then) and a stud inside LB to go in between Woodyard and Miller would go a long way toward further strengthing the D in reality as well as in the stats ..

Also at least one genuine top rated DT in the trenches to line up next to Wolfe with Unrein, Vickerson and Malik Jackson in rotation.. maybe Bannen too for one more year unless we grab someone better in FA? Jason Hunter is likely back too to help compete for a DE spot as well.

Better depth at the last two or three WR spots under a further DT, Decker and Stokely who I expect will be back and ready to play at a high level one last year, will round out our needs nicely.

Bmore Manning
01-13-2013, 04:57 PM
"Free Agency is the Devil!" -Lonestar

Drek
01-13-2013, 06:56 PM
"Free Agency is the Devil!" -Lonestar

He's just telling people the truth.

Clady is looking at a minimum of $9.6M, if we just tag him. He already turned down 5/$50M. So half our free room is going to him. Colquitt and Carter are undrafted RFA's, so basically straight FAs, they won't be stupid cheap (probably $2M for Carter and only a little less for Colquitt). All three of our DTs need new deals.

Sum total this team needs to cut DJ, Mays, etc just to retain it's own, sign draft picks, and pick up a few cheaper vets. That assumes we spend damn near to the cap too.

Bmore Manning
01-13-2013, 07:04 PM
He's just telling people the truth.

Clady is looking at a minimum of $9.6M, if we just tag him. He already turned down 5/$50M. So half our free room is going to him. Colquitt and Carter are undrafted RFA's, so basically straight FAs, they won't be stupid cheap (probably $2M for Carter and only a little less for Colquitt). All three of our DTs need new deals.

Sum total this team needs to cut DJ, Mays, etc just to retain it's own, sign draft picks, and pick up a few cheaper vets. That assumes we spend damn near to the cap too.

The cap can be massaged DREK, I would have thought you understood that.. Deals can be reworked, players cut. The cap really isn't as big of a problem as you perceive it. Sure tagging Clady would sting, but I expect a long term deal. I expect cuts, I expect reworked deals.

How do you think the holes on this team will be addressed, the draft alone? There will be free agent signings, not big time splashes, but second tier players for sure.

DENVERDUI55
01-13-2013, 07:54 PM
He's just telling people the truth.

Clady is looking at a minimum of $9.6M, if we just tag him. He already turned down 5/$50M. So half our free room is going to him. Colquitt and Carter are undrafted RFA's, so basically straight FAs, they won't be stupid cheap (probably $2M for Carter and only a little less for Colquitt). All three of our DTs need new deals.

Sum total this team needs to cut DJ, Mays, etc just to retain it's own, sign draft picks, and pick up a few cheaper vets. That assumes we spend damn near to the cap too.

Shipping Prater would save some bucks wouldn't it? He was 4th highest paid player this year.

DBroncos4life
01-13-2013, 08:02 PM
Shipping Prater would save some bucks wouldn't it? He was 4th highest paid player this year.

ROFL!

SoCalBronco
01-13-2013, 08:17 PM
Since mikey left PATor JOE has not allowed us to reach the cap.

.

I'm glad you've finally admitted there are significant budget restrictions being imposed from above which hamper our ability to compete. Elways work is even more impressive in that regard.

Of course you are wrong about the since Mike part. Bowlers cheapness started long before that. I once broke down the year by year spending data. For the 00-09 period we were about 20th in the league in spending. Nor can dead money explain this. If you look at the year by year totals you will find about 2 very big spending years and like 6 or 7 very low years....shouldn't take that long to weed out 2 bad years. Also you will note there was no SF or TEN style cap tidal wave that hit our team. This would be expected if dead money were the main explanation....never happened.

Wonder why the old man is hoarding all that cash? I hope it's more than just Blue Label.

eddie mac
01-13-2013, 10:09 PM
Iirc we only have some 35 players under contract for next year.

A lot of that money will be required to finish out the team. As well as again IIRC about 7 million will be needed on rookie contracts both for the coming year as well as the prorated portion of any signing bonuses.

So that whooping 18 mil will,soon be gone.

48 players currently under contract including some futures deals announced in the last 1-2 weeks

Here's the full cap count roster for 2013 as it stands right now

QB
Peyton Manning $20,000,000* - Not guaranteed until he passes March physical
Brock Osweiler $729,396
Caleb Hanie $1,250,000

RB
Willis McGahee $3,000,000* - SB proration remaining $1m, cut saves $2m
Knowshon Moreno $3,475,750 - SB proration $832k, cut saves $2.6m
Ronnie Hillman $652,708
Jacob Hester $715,000
Mario Fannan $483,333

FB

WR
Demaryius Thomas $2,430,250* - possibly due incentive pay
Eric Decker $758,037* - same as Thomas
Andre Caldwell $1,000,000
Trindon Holiday KR $480,000
Eric Page $480,361
Gerell Robinson $405,000

TE
Joel Dreessen $3,333,333 - $1.667m left in SB proration
Jacob Tamme $3,333,333 - $1.667m left in SB proration
Julius Thomas $651,000
Virgil Green $559,320

OL
Chris Kuper OG $5,915,166 - $950k left in SB proration, cut/trade saves $5m
Orlando Franklin OT $1,191,000
Zane Beadles OG $1,005,000
Manuel Ramirez OG $715,000
JD Walton OC $774,375
Philip Blake OC $593,400
CJ Davis OG $555,000
Justin Boren OG $405,000


DE
Elvis Dumervil DE $16,948,000 - $1.27m left in SB proration - cut/trade saves $15.7m
Derek Wolfe DE/DT $1,193,582
Robert Ayers DE $2,241,250 - All guarantees gone, no SB proration left
Malik Jackson DE $533,400
Jeremy Beal DE $405,000

DT
Sealver Siliga DT $480,000

OLB
Von Miller SLB $5,727,376
DJ Williams WLB $7,732,500 - $900k SB proration remains, cut saves $6.8m
Wesley Woodyard WLB $2,000,000
Nate Irving SLB $728,750
Danny Trevathon WLB $506,018

ILB
Joe Mays MLB $4,166,667 - $670k still guaranteed, cut saves $3.5m
Steven Johnson MLB $484,000

CB
Champ Bailey $10,500,000 - nothing guaranteed, cut/trade saves $10.5m
Chris Harris $556,000
Omar Bolden $598,607
Coryell Judie $483,333

S
Mike Adams SS $2,000,000 - Nothing guaranteed, cut saves $2m
Rahim Moore FS $987,500
Quinton Carter SS $668,750


SPECIAL TEAMS

K
Matt Prater $3,312,500

P


KR/PR
Trindon Holiday Already Listed

LS
Aaron Brewer $481,333

I have us closer to $17.5m under the cap once we include the $1.5m we're still owed from the Redskins/Cowboys penalties which we chose not to utilise in 2012.

IMHO Elway will be looking hard at the deals bolded above, especially Dumervil's, Champ's, DJ's and Mays. Some creative accounting there could clear another $20m if the Broncos wish to make a real push again next season.

My other worry is performance related pay for some of our 3rd year players, I see major hikes for some of our guys like, Thomas, Decker and Harris which could dimminish the cap room available even more

Our own free agents obviously take priority including

Clady - $10m-$12m range
Colquitt RFA $2m
Vickerson $3m-$5m range
Bannan $2m
Unrein RFA $1.5m
Tony Carter RFA $2m
Stokes $1m
Jason Hunter $1m
Koppen $1m-$2m
Bruton $1m
Leonhard $1m
Brooking $1m

I will update this in a separate thread once the offseason starts kicking off.

NUB
01-13-2013, 10:58 PM
Denver needs to be looking at a veteran safety again. A strong middle-linebacker wouldn't hurt, either. This focus on receivers is nuts in comparison. If there is any part of this offense that needs focus it is running back. Moreno bailed once again and with no depth at all it really stung.

lonestar
01-14-2013, 12:20 AM
The cap can be massaged DREK, I would have thought you understood that.. Deals can be reworked, players cut. The cap really isn't as big of a problem as you perceive it. Sure tagging Clady would sting, but I expect a long term deal. I expect cuts, I expect reworked deals.

How do you think the holes on this team will be addressed, the draft alone? There will be free agent signings, not big time splashes, but second tier players for sure.

Who are all these deals that can be reworked?

You make it seem like child's play.

Even if you rework a deal the bonuse money you pay gets prorated into this coming season..

In order to just fill the roster up with bodies 18 of them it is going to eat most if not all your free cap money IF PAT allows them to go all the way to the top of the cap. Something he has not done the past three years.

Plus if they do rework contracts for this year it just adds additional prorated money forthe duration of those contracts thus eating up cap space for as many as five more years. Killing the future. Something "building via the draft" is totally contrary to.

I know you think this is as easy as cutting a couple of guys like my payers and Dj but then there prorated money comes due 1.7 for DJ not sure how much Mayes got when signing.

If you cut DJ you saved 6 mil at most,but then you have to fill anther spot. So maybe you save five mil best case scenario.

I know you think I'm the devil. Because I keep telling you that you do not have all the money you think you do. But those are the facts Jack.

lonestar
01-14-2013, 12:24 AM
48 players currently under contract including some futures deals announced in the last 1-2 weeks

Here's the full cap count roster for 2013 as it stands right now

QB
Peyton Manning $20,000,000* - Not guaranteed until he passes March physical
Brock Osweiler $729,396
Caleb Hanie $1,250,000

RB
Willis McGahee $3,000,000* - SB proration remaining $1m, cut saves $2m
Knowshon Moreno $3,475,750 - SB proration $832k, cut saves $2.6m
Ronnie Hillman $652,708
Jacob Hester $715,000
Mario Fannan $483,333

FB

WR
Demaryius Thomas $2,430,250* - possibly due incentive pay
Eric Decker $758,037* - same as Thomas
Andre Caldwell $1,000,000
Trindon Holiday KR $480,000
Eric Page $480,361
Gerell Robinson $405,000

TE
Joel Dreessen $3,333,333 - $1.667m left in SB proration
Jacob Tamme $3,333,333 - $1.667m left in SB proration
Julius Thomas $651,000
Virgil Green $559,320

OL
Chris Kuper OG $5,915,166 - $950k left in SB proration, cut/trade saves $5m
Orlando Franklin OT $1,191,000
Zane Beadles OG $1,005,000
Manuel Ramirez OG $715,000
JD Walton OC $774,375
Philip Blake OC $593,400
CJ Davis OG $555,000
Justin Boren OG $405,000


DE
Elvis Dumervil DE $16,948,000 - $1.27m left in SB proration - cut/trade saves $15.7m
Derek Wolfe DE/DT $1,193,582
Robert Ayers DE $2,241,250 - All guarantees gone, no SB proration left
Malik Jackson DE $533,400
Jeremy Beal DE $405,000

DT
Sealver Siliga DT $480,000

OLB
Von Miller SLB $5,727,376
DJ Williams WLB $7,732,500 - $900k SB proration remains, cut saves $6.8m
Wesley Woodyard WLB $2,000,000
Nate Irving SLB $728,750
Danny Trevathon WLB $506,018

ILB
Joe Mays MLB $4,166,667 - $670k still guaranteed, cut saves $3.5m
Steven Johnson MLB $484,000

CB
Champ Bailey $10,500,000 - nothing guaranteed, cut/trade saves $10.5m
Chris Harris $556,000
Omar Bolden $598,607
Coryell Judie $483,333

S
Mike Adams SS $2,000,000 - Nothing guaranteed, cut saves $2m
Rahim Moore FS $987,500
Quinton Carter SS $668,750


SPECIAL TEAMS

K
Matt Prater $3,312,500

P


KR/PR
Trindon Holiday Already Listed

LS
Aaron Brewer $481,333

I have us closer to $17.5m under the cap once we include the $1.5m we're still owed from the Redskins/Cowboys penalties which we chose not to utilise in 2012.

IMHO Elway will be looking hard at the deals bolded above, especially Dumervil's, Champ's, DJ's and Mays. Some creative accounting there could clear another $20m if the Broncos wish to make a real push again next season.

My other worry is performance related pay for some of our 3rd year players, I see major hikes for some of our guys like, Thomas, Decker and Harris which could dimminish the cap room available even more

Our own free agents obviously take priority including

Clady - $10m-$12m range
Colquitt RFA $2m
Vickerson $3m-$5m range
Bannan $2m
Unrein RFA $1.5m
Tony Carter RFA $2m
Stokes $1m
Jason Hunter $1m
Koppen $1m-$2m
Bruton $1m
Leonhard $1m
Brooking $1m

I will update this in a separate thread once the offseason starts kicking off.

What is your source.?
Because the one I have seen Shows only 35 players under contract for 2013.

lonestar
01-14-2013, 12:35 AM
This was posted in another thread. It shows the information of how I came to those numbers.

Denver rolled over 26 million into the Salary Cap in 2012, this made our Cap Total $147.26 Million of money available to be spent, which includes salary and bonus. Denver spent around $137.53 Million this season.. which means there’s about $10 million dollars of Cap Rollover into next season.. this is where I got my $10 Cap Room Number. That’s just rollover money, so this puts the spending mark limit around $131 Million roughly.. the Salary Cap is projected to be about $121 Million for 2013.

Now here is the intricate part which I said requires some pretty extensive research.. below is a list of the players under contract for the Denver Broncos heading into the 2013 NFL season and THEIR SALARY.. take note that this does not reflect the total salary cap number, because it does not include bonuses. I am not privied to what teams pay out for in bonuses prior to the season.. we know that there is typically a signing bonus associated with most contracts, and this guaranteed money gets prorated over the contract for several years. This is why when you go on spot tract you are only able to see Cap Hit for 2012.. in will say Salary, Signing Bonus, Other Bonus.. these numbers added up are what give you your Cap Hit for the year.

Manning $20 M
Dumervil $12 M
Bailey $9 M
DJ Williams $6 M
Kuper $4.5 M
Dreesen, Prater, & Tamme $2.5 M
Von Miller $2.28 M
Woodyard $2 M
Adams $1.75 M
Moreno $1.7 M
Hanie $1.25 M
Ayers $1.06 M
Caldwell $900 K
DT $836 K
Franklin $771 K
Ramirez & Hester $715 K
Beadles & Decker $575 K
Julius Thomas, Moore, Green, Irving, & Harris $555 K
Wolfe, Brewer, Malik Jackson, Steve Johnson, Bolden, Trevethan, Holliday, Hillman, & Osweiler $480 K

Salary Total Roughly $89 Million
So that is a current salary cap hit of $89 Million, this does not include bonuses, again I am not privied to bonuses because I do not have their actual contracts in front of me. But I do know based on viewing the amount of time left on current players contracts, there should not be a significant bonus cap hit… over the length of a time of a contract the cap hit either goes up or comes down, fortunately for us, our players with higher cap hits had more front loaded contracts, and what you see is what you get..

Signing Rookie Players
To sign a draft class will count about $7 Million against the cap..
This puts Denver at a $96 Million Cap Hit, this is with the list of players above and our signed draft class.. Remember this does not include the bonus money of players from the long list above, but that $7 million draft class is a very accurate total cap hit gauge.

Bonuses
As I have reieterated throughout the post, I am not privied to what the entire cap hit will be per player under contract because I do not know what their contract allows for in terms of bonuses. What I do know is the big name free agent who will get a huge signing bonus this offseason that will be prorated over the contract will be Ryan Clady, assuming of course he is resigned. When free agents sign a contract, they care more about the guaranteed money that they will get upfront and no matter if they are injured or not, salary is an after thought. Denver had $30 million dollars of bonuses towards the cap last season. If we assume that number is the same for 2013, then our cap figure is now $126 Million… this includes the entire list of current signed players, our draft class signed, and all bonuses included…
This will have Denver with about $5 million to spend towards impending free agents and free agents that will hit the open market. I just want to note I do not think the bonus money will account for some $30 million dollars next season, I expect about $20 million.. which gives us $15 million to spend towards free agency.

Impending Free Agents
Lance Ball, Justin Bannan, Keith Brooking, David Bruton, Tony Carter, Chris Clark, Britton Colquitt
C.J. Davis, Chris Gronkowski, Dan Koppen, Jim Leonhard, Sealver Siliga, Brandon Stokley, Mitch Unrein
Kevin Vickerson, Matt Willis, Tracy Porter, and Ryan Clady.

Conclusion
We are a very fortunate team in the NFL to have such a plethora of skilled young talent.. right now we are paying peanuts for guys who are doing great things on the roster. Regardless of who you think we should resign, who you think we should draft, who you think we should pursue in free agency.. you need to have a firm grasp of where we stand in regards to the cap. Maybe you think some deals should be reworked, maybe some players should be outright cut so we can increase our ability to spend.
My best assessment puts Denver with $5-$15 Million towards free agency spending.. that included our own impending free agents as well as whats their on the market. I spent several hours on this.. so make sure when you Draft Gurus use my numbers in your Mock threads, you be sure to give me a shout out, or reference that you got the numbers from me.. Enjoy the numbers and get creative!!

actual numbers from the site quoted..

Players currently under contract for 2013..

$104,209K and Change..

2012 players that will need to be replaced in some manner Unlikely most of these will be cheaper.. Other than Porter who was expensive as a Backup but would have been decent as a starter at $4mil..

$22,609k and change

total of the money is $126,818 K and change..


Base Salary S. Bonus Misc. Bonus Cap Hit
Dumervil 2013 12,000,000 423,000 4,525,000 16,948,00
Bailey 2013 9,000,000 - 1,500,000 10,500,000
Adams 2013 1,750,000 - 250,000 2,000,000
Ayers $2013 1,060,000 - 1,181,250 2,241,250
Beadles 2013 575,000 430,000 - 1,005,000
Bolden 2013 480,000 118,607 - 598,607
Brewer 2013 480,000 1,333 - 481,333
Caldewell 2013 900,000 100,000 - 1,000,000
Decker 2013 575,000 183,037 - 758,037
Dressen 2013 2,500,000 833,333 - 3,333,333
Franklin 2013 771,000 420,000 - 1,191,000
Green 2013 555,000 4,320 - 559,320
Gronkowski 2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Hanie 2013 1,250,000 - - 1,250,000
HArris c 2013 555,000 1,000 - 556,000
Hester 2013 715,000 - - 715,000
Hilman 2013 480,000 172,708 - 652,708
Holiday 2013 480,000 - - 480,000
Irving 2013 555,000 173,750 - 728,750
Jackson 2013 480,000 53,400 - 533,400
Johnson 2013 480,000 4,000 - 484,000
Kuper 2013 4,500,000 315,166 1,100,000 5,915,166
Manning 2013 20,000,000 - - 20,000,000
Miller 2013 2,284,125 3,443,251 - 5,727,376
Moore 2013 555,000 432,500 - 987,500
Moreno 2013 1,700,000 832,000 943,750 3,475,750
Osweliere 2013 480,000 249,396 - 729,396
Pratar 2013 2,500,000 812,500 - 3,312,500
Tamme 2013 2,500,000 500,000 - 3,000,000
Thomas D 2013 836,500 1,593,750 - 2,430,250
Thomas J 2013 555,000 96,000 - 651,000
Trevathan 2013 480,000 26,018 - 506,018
Williams 2013 6,000,000 250,000 1,482,500 7,732,500
Wolfe 2013 480,000 566,910 146,672 1,193,582
Woodyard 2013 2,000,000 - - 2,000,000

*****************

RFA/UFA
Ball 2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Bannan 2012 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Brooking 2012 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Burton 2012 615,000 120,600 - 735,600
Carter 2012 615,000 - - 615,000
Clady 2012 3,500,000 - 2,329,375 5,829,375
Clark 2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Colquitt 2012 540,000 - - 540,000
Davis 2012 615,000 - - 615,000
Koppen 2012 825,000 - - 825,000
Leonard 2012 825,000 65,000 - 890,000
Porter 2012 3,000,000 1,000,000 - 4,000,000
Ramierez 2013 715,000 - - 715,000
Siliga 2012 390,000 - - 390,000
Stokely 2012 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Urein 2012 415,000 - - 415,000
Vickerson 2012 1,200,000 500,000 - 1,700,000
Willis 2012 1,260,000 - - 1,260,000



While I applaud BMs work and thoughts here I see us with less than 20 million to work with to fill all the UFA or RFA spots that I either did not have valid numbers for for 2013 (RFA) or holes that UFA create..

that is assuming we do not resign Clady to the mega contract he is looking for..
If we do then we are looking at about 8 million of which he thinks 7 will be for Rookie contracts..

Now let me add something in here, Pat has had both Josh and John on a short leash in spending up to the cap value.. Therefore unless he opens up the purse strings we are either going to have to redo under performing players contracts, cut some of these guys or NOT sign any UFA and since we currently have only 35 players under contract something will have to give....

Bmore Manning
01-14-2013, 04:00 AM
Lonestar I didn't call you that rather I quoted that as something you would say. When I did those numbers again I was using my iPhone and didn't see where you could find the bonus money, and then DB4L enlightened us, otherwise they would have been pretty spot on.

And then Bacchus and Req both posted that article that said we have $18 million in cap room going into next season, with 35 signed players. That's without any cuts or reworked deals. Signing our rookie class of 7 players is no more than a $7million cap hit.

Then Req was showing some moves that would free up some money, DJ, Mays and others..
The front office could approach Doom, Bailey, Kuper.. Others

Peyton has taken less in the past.

How do you expect to improve, just draftees? There will be some money spent on Free Agency.

lonestar
01-14-2013, 09:06 AM
Lonestar I didn't call you that rather I quoted that as something you would say. When I did those numbers again I was using my iPhone and didn't see where you could find the bonus money, and then DB4L enlightened us, otherwise they would have been pretty spot on.

And then Bacchus and Req both posted that article that said we have $18 million in cap room going into next season, with 35 signed players. That's without any cuts or reworked deals. Signing our rookie class of 7 players is no more than a $7million cap hit.

Then Req was showing some moves that would free up some money, DJ, Mays and others..
The front office could approach Doom, Bailey, Kuper.. Others

Peyton has taken less in the past.

How do you expect to improve, just draftees? There will be some money spent on Free Agency.

Everything everyone else said was in post 97 in this thread and was reported from your thread several weeks ago. they posted Nothing new that had not been posted in my post.

As far as building via the draft. Even I'm not the dumb to think they will fill 18+ spots with seven draft spots. which someone in another thread pointed out should be somewhere between 3.5-5 million not the 7 I used quoting your original post in that thread.

We are going to have to come up with money just to be able to sign those 18 more like 25 guys to get us through the season considering we have 7+ players on IR each year.

Your idea about asking vets to resign is something that got mikey into to trouble cap wise during most of his time in Denver. I'm not sure that John is going to walk down Mikey's path, for that matter not sure that Pat will allow it either.

It makes more sense to cut aging vets and eat their prorated bonus and fill those spots with younger less costly players.

As for manning timing less, do you really think that he is going to give up money from a contract he just did less than a year ago?

Since none of us have all the facts, I will continue to ask where are we going to get the money to sign those 18-25 player to fill the roster.

LET ALONE go after a bunch of super studs.

eddie mac
01-14-2013, 10:50 AM
What is your source.?
Because the one I have seen Shows only 35 players under contract for 2013.

Spotrac, Rotoworld, various others I've been using for years. All pretty accurate, the above list is up to date and as I've said also accounts for futures contracts signed by players since the regular season ended often not reported globally such as Page, Robinson, Boren etc etc, players who may have been in camp with us before and are a long shot to make the roster.

TonyR
01-14-2013, 11:35 AM
Q: What if the Patriots lost to Denver, then let Welker leave and he signed with the Broncos?
—Brandon, Winston Salem

SG: (Unable to speak.)

Q: Where would that rank on the Betrayal Scale?
—Brandon, Winston Salem

SG: (Slowly turning bright red.)

Q: Is there even a betrayal scale? You should make one.
—Brandon, Winston Salem

SG: GET THE HELL OUT OF MY MAILBAG! GET OUT! AND DON'T EVER COME BACK!!!!! http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8835592/view/full/the-sports-guy-make-divisional-playoffs-picks

I guess he doesn't have to worry about the "lose to Denver" part. But stealing Welker would sure be fun.

lonestar
01-14-2013, 11:36 AM
Spotrac, Rotoworld, various others I've been using for years. All pretty accurate, the above list is up to date and as I've said also accounts for futures contracts signed by players since the regular season ended often not reported globally such as Page, Robinson, Boren etc etc, players who may have been in camp with us before and are a long shot to make the roster.

Other than the last few players signed to futures contracts and I have only seen 3 max. Your 43 number does not jive. With the 35 I listed in the above post.

broncosteven
01-14-2013, 04:10 PM
Spotrac, Rotoworld, various others I've been using for years. All pretty accurate, the above list is up to date and as I've said also accounts for futures contracts signed by players since the regular season ended often not reported globally such as Page, Robinson, Boren etc etc, players who may have been in camp with us before and are a long shot to make the roster.

Eddie Mac has been doing a great job reporting on the Cap here for as long as I have been here, Lonestar gets his info second hand from someone elses post and has the audacity to question Eddie Mac his sources?!

Amazing...

eddie mac
01-14-2013, 06:18 PM
Other than the last few players signed to futures contracts and I have only seen 3 max. Your 43 number does not jive. With the 35 I listed in the above post.

Just read the list of players and you'll figure out who the futures guys are and who was on the active roster last year, some of them were on our practice squad at some point.

DBroncos4life
01-14-2013, 07:21 PM
Eddie Mac has been doing a great job reporting on the Cap here for as long as I have been here, Lonestar gets his info second hand from someone elses post and has the audacity to question Eddie Mac his sources?!

Amazing...

Trollstar didn't even know about spotrac tell I brought it up in Bmores thread. Now he is a cap guru. Hilarious!

TheReverend
01-14-2013, 07:23 PM
Eddie Mac has been doing a great job reporting on the Cap here for as long as I have been here, Lonestar gets his info second hand from someone elses post and has the audacity to question Eddie Mac his sources?!

Amazing...

^ that. One of the few things I won't argue here is cap with eddie or Herc

broncosteven
01-14-2013, 07:34 PM
^ that. One of the few things I won't argue here is cap with eddie or Herc

It's idiots like him who ran off all the great posters.

"Shanahan won SB's because Wade Phillips built his team!"

"The NFL hasn't seen the likes of Tebow! Go Gators!"

"I just requoted some dude on the InTErNetS so I know I am right, what are YOUR sources? Liberial kiddies think they are going to change the world, where were they back in 1778!"

lonestar
01-14-2013, 10:14 PM
Eddie Mac has been doing a great job reporting on the Cap here for as long as I have been here, Lonestar gets his info second hand from someone elses post and has the audacity to question Eddie Mac his sources?!

Amazing...

what is amazing is I used ONE source about the 7 million for the rookies cap number and it was CLEARLY shown in my quote of Bmore manning

Denver rolled over 26 million into the Salary Cap in 2012, this made our Cap Total $147.26 Million of money available to be spent, which includes salary and bonus. Denver spent around $137.53 Million this season.. which means there’s about $10 million dollars of Cap Rollover into next season.. this is where I got my $10 Cap Room Number. That’s just rollover money, so this puts the spending mark limit around $131 Million roughly.. the Salary Cap is projected to be about $121 Million for 2013.

Now here is the intricate part which I said requires some pretty extensive research.. below is a list of the players under contract for the Denver Broncos heading into the 2013 NFL season and THEIR SALARY.. take note that this does not reflect the total salary cap number, because it does not include bonuses. I am not privied to what teams pay out for in bonuses prior to the season.. we know that there is typically a signing bonus associated with most contracts, and this guaranteed money gets prorated over the contract for several years. This is why when you go on spot tract you are only able to see Cap Hit for 2012.. in will say Salary, Signing Bonus, Other Bonus.. these numbers added up are what give you your Cap Hit for the year.

Manning $20 M
Dumervil $12 M
Bailey $9 M
DJ Williams $6 M
Kuper $4.5 M
Dreesen, Prater, & Tamme $2.5 M
Von Miller $2.28 M
Woodyard $2 M
Adams $1.75 M
Moreno $1.7 M
Hanie $1.25 M
Ayers $1.06 M
Caldwell $900 K
DT $836 K
Franklin $771 K
Ramirez & Hester $715 K
Beadles & Decker $575 K
Julius Thomas, Moore, Green, Irving, & Harris $555 K
Wolfe, Brewer, Malik Jackson, Steve Johnson, Bolden, Trevethan, Holliday, Hillman, & Osweiler $480 K

Salary Total Roughly $89 Million
So that is a current salary cap hit of $89 Million, this does not include bonuses, again I am not privied to bonuses because I do not have their actual contracts in front of me. But I do know based on viewing the amount of time left on current players contracts, there should not be a significant bonus cap hit… over the length of a time of a contract the cap hit either goes up or comes down, fortunately for us, our players with higher cap hits had more front loaded contracts, and what you see is what you get..

Signing Rookie Players
To sign a draft class will count about $7 Million against the cap..
This puts Denver at a $96 Million Cap Hit, this is with the list of players above and our signed draft class.. Remember this does not include the bonus money of players from the long list above, but that $7 million draft class is a very accurate total cap hit gauge.

Bonuses
As I have reieterated throughout the post, I am not privied to what the entire cap hit will be per player under contract because I do not know what their contract allows for in terms of bonuses. What I do know is the big name free agent who will get a huge signing bonus this offseason that will be prorated over the contract will be Ryan Clady, assuming of course he is resigned. When free agents sign a contract, they care more about the guaranteed money that they will get upfront and no matter if they are injured or not, salary is an after thought. Denver had $30 million dollars of bonuses towards the cap last season. If we assume that number is the same for 2013, then our cap figure is now $126 Million… this includes the entire list of current signed players, our draft class signed, and all bonuses included…
This will have Denver with about $5 million to spend towards impending free agents and free agents that will hit the open market. I just want to note I do not think the bonus money will account for some $30 million dollars next season, I expect about $20 million.. which gives us $15 million to spend towards free agency.

Impending Free Agents
Lance Ball, Justin Bannan, Keith Brooking, David Bruton, Tony Carter, Chris Clark, Britton Colquitt
C.J. Davis, Chris Gronkowski, Dan Koppen, Jim Leonhard, Sealver Siliga, Brandon Stokley, Mitch Unrein
Kevin Vickerson, Matt Willis, Tracy Porter, and Ryan Clady.

Conclusion
We are a very fortunate team in the NFL to have such a plethora of skilled young talent.. right now we are paying peanuts for guys who are doing great things on the roster. Regardless of who you think we should resign, who you think we should draft, who you think we should pursue in free agency.. you need to have a firm grasp of where we stand in regards to the cap. Maybe you think some deals should be reworked, maybe some players should be outright cut so we can increase our ability to spend.
My best assessment puts Denver with $5-$15 Million towards free agency spending.. that included our own impending free agents as well as whats their on the market. I spent several hours on this.. so make sure when you Draft Gurus use my numbers in your Mock threads, you be sure to give me a shout out, or reference that you got the numbers from me.. Enjoy the numbers and get creative!!

so go piss off

I have since been corrected by Kaylore (3.5-5 mil) whom I tend to agree with.. and have used that number in any and all subsequent posts..

Considering we may have spent that much the year before last picking #2 I can see where Bmore Manning might have gotten that number..

As for asking someone for their sources when they are not stated I have zero problems with doing so and will always challenge someone that has numbers I do not agree with after doing extensive research on the matter..

Since frankly I do not know the poster from adam and KNEW when i researched my post it was 35 under a 2013 contract not on the practice squad..

unlike some I do not spend every waking moment on the forum and frankly do not care to read up every poster most of which are kiddies and do not know their a ss from a hole in the ground about football.. and even less about business..

combine the two together and the number of posters I trust to have good information I can count on one hand and maybe now since you have enlightened me and due to his responses one hand and 1 finger..

lonestar
01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
Just read the list of players and you'll figure out who the futures guys are and who was on the active roster last year, some of them were on our practice squad at some point.

Thanks for being an up front guy about it.. so many trolls on here just wanted to know sources as so many are just pulling crap out of their a sses..

as I said in response to BS, I have not taken the time to analyze each poster for their knowledge.. I do not spend all day on here and can count on one hand the number of guys that are not full of crap..

Now I know you are legit I'll add one to that list..

I think more definitive stuff will be coming done the pike soon as the EOS cuts start.. :thumbs:

lonestar
01-14-2013, 10:23 PM
Trollstar didn't even know about spotrac tell I brought it up in Bmores thread. Now he is a cap guru. Hilarious!

and I thank you for that the site I had been using for almost a decade recently restricted it only to NFLPA agents and players..

SO I am not quite the neophyte you think I am.. the past couple of years I frankly did not care all that much so have not posted much on it..

But several years ago I did loads of research on it..

lonestar
01-14-2013, 10:43 PM
It's idiots like him who ran off all the great posters.

"Shanahan won SB's because Wade Phillips built his team!"

"The NFL hasn't seen the likes of Tebow! Go Gators!"

"I just requoted some dude on the InTErNetS so I know I am right, what are YOUR sources? Liberial kiddies think they are going to change the world, where were they back in 1778!"


I get it more BS from BS..


just which "great" poster (note the singular) have left since I started posting..

I have been lurking on here for years.. early 03 I think was when I started and frankly of all those great posters you claim I do not recall ever seeing them..

I chose not to post at the time as because I was on a couple of other forums.. this place at the time was a ****ing war zone..

I read and decided not to get into the war games..

as to your kiddie comment I find it hard to take the word about broncos from someone that started watching them when one of the following happened, Elway came to town, the drive, mikey was promoted to HC, cutlet was dafted, Tebow was drafted.. with each of them ongoing getting diminishing respect..

for the most part most members on here and other forums learned football from playing Madden or being a FF owner.. less than half have played the game other than in the back yard..

so IMO they are kiddies, that should post less and read more.. they just might learn something.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-28-2013, 08:59 PM
Read more here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-2013-broncos-salary-cap-and-free-agency-primer-part-1

Today, we’re going to be serious, and we’re going to dismiss all of the delusions of grandeur that a lot of fans and reporters have. A football team has to plan for both the short term, as well as the long term, and the long-term planning that the Broncos face doesn’t allow for the big splash signings that get people excited.

Let’s start by doing some math, and by understanding how the Broncos currently sit structurally within the constraints of the salary cap. The cap in 2013 is expected to be around $121 million, and the Broncos currently look like they’ll have $18.5 million at the beginning of the NFL year. It’s easy to think that they can just go out and spend $18.5 million in average annual value on free agents, but it’s not that simple.

If you think structurally about the Broncos, they’re very star-heavy. Here are the 2013 cap numbers for their five highest-paid players:


Player Cap number
Peyton Manning $20,000
Elvis Dumervil $12,500
Champ Bailey $10,500
D.J. Williams $6,900
Von Miller $5,300
Total $55,200
Total (excluding Williams) $48,300

fontaine
01-29-2013, 04:19 AM
48 players currently under contract including some futures deals announced in the last 1-2 weeks

Caleb Hanie $1,250,000
Willis McGahee $3,000,000* - SB proration remaining $1m, cut saves $2m

Jacob Hester $715,000
Andre Caldwell $1,000,000
Julius Thomas $651,000
CJ Davis OG $555,000
Justin Boren OG $405,000
Jeremy Beal DE $405,000
DJ Williams WLB $7,732,500 - $900k SB proration remains, cut saves $6.8m
Joe Mays MLB $4,166,667 - $670k still guaranteed, cut saves $3.5m
Mike Adams SS $2,000,000 - Nothing guaranteed, cut saves $2m



All of these guys are readily replaceable by players already under contract except for MLB.

Those cuts above give us another $20 million under the cap with the $18million we're already under.

The cap isn't a problem for this team. The biggest priority is to get the most out of a draft that's loaded with DT/CB talent.

Bacchus
01-29-2013, 04:54 AM
All of these guys are readily replaceable by players already under contract except for MLB.

Those cuts above give us another $20 million under the cap with the $18million we're already under.

The cap isn't a problem for this team. The biggest priority is to get the most out of a draft that's loaded with DT/CB talent.

Really, who is going to replace McGahee? Moreno and his 3.8 YPC?

UberBroncoMan
01-29-2013, 04:59 AM
Great news for Broncos, they need to stay away from expensive FA, draft wisely and start trying to re-sign their own players.

I imagine DJ, Mayes and Porter will be gone creating more cap space.

Porter only had a one year contract so he's already off the books.

TonyR
01-29-2013, 06:29 AM
IAOFM has a detailed post on this subject:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-2013-broncos-salary-cap-and-free-agency-primer-part-1

fontaine
01-29-2013, 05:11 PM
Really, who is going to replace McGahee? Moreno and his 3.8 YPC?

Moreno effectively replaced McGahee towards the end of the season and was a better pass catcher and less prone to fumbling.

I hugely admire McGahee for bringing back some much needed toughness to our run game but $3million for a 32 year old back with a season struggling with injuries and fumbles is not what's best for this team.

cutthemdown
01-29-2013, 05:17 PM
I don't find it fun or interesting to worry about the cap like most of you.

As far as McGahee and is he worth 3 million a yr I would say no time to move on. Lets keep working on getting younger and more athletic.

I'd like to see us keep looking for a RB who is a real game changer. Just imagine what Broncos could do with a real breakaway RB like Jammal Charles. I'm really hoping titans cut Chris Johnson. He might not be worth the 10 million they have to pay him this yr but he got 0 blocking last 2 yrs. Hes on my fantasy team so i watched him a lot. Im telling you over half the time he has not 1 but 2 defenders in the backfield right at the snap. Its ridiculous how bad the oline was in Tenn.

lonestar
01-29-2013, 07:45 PM
IAOFM has a detailed post on this subject:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-2013-broncos-salary-cap-and-free-agency-primer-part-1

Part two is posted today.

As I have stated many times we do not have loads of money to spend, like so many seem to beleive and even less if they decide to keep Clady.

Considering shoulder surgery that is not s lock.

Heyneck
01-29-2013, 08:22 PM
Part two is posted today.

As I have stated many times we do not have loads of money to spend, like so many seem to beleive and even less if they decide to keep Clady.

Considering shoulder surgery that is not s lock.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/01/tumblr_mec5dqVhfn1r9pcg2.gif

mwill07
01-30-2013, 07:02 AM
I'm more concerned about the 2014 cap situation than the 2013.

Beantown Bronco
01-30-2013, 07:37 AM
As I have stated many times we do not have loads of money to spend

Well, jeez, since you've stated it many times, it MUST be right.

Requiem
01-30-2013, 07:58 AM
Well, jeez, since you've stated it many times, it MUST be right.

well teh facts is bowel has ha budget and IIRc josh and not even mikey spend get all the cap after tanahan's DAFTING and free agent falyers. leash put on the cap because although mikey might been a decent coach no doubt was he a terribal managar. i myself have ran a buSiness unlike most of you madden draft kiddies who don't have a chekbok and waiiting on their allowances to pay fantasy football doos.

eddie mac
01-30-2013, 03:14 PM
That $18.5m has become around $10m now what with all the futures contracts and the incentive payraises that Walton, Beadles and Woodyard received.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-30-2013, 03:27 PM
That $18.5m has become around $10m now what with all the futures contracts and the incentive payraises that Walton, Beadles and Woodyard received.

Isnt it only the top 51 salaries that count against it? Futures contracts really wouldnt apply?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-30-2013, 03:56 PM
Part two is posted today.

As I have stated many times we do not have loads of money to spend, like so many seem to beleive and even less if they decide to keep Clady.

Considering shoulder surgery that is not s lock.

What is with you and Clady? Did he steal your milk money once, or something?

I mean you're talking about a OLT that's made the probowl three out of five years(should have been 4 out of 5, but 1 was stolen by Joe Thomas for no good reason). Is it because after blocking for 17 seconds to give up a sack on Tebow(in reality Tebow was running around like an idiot for 16 seconds)?

lonestar
01-30-2013, 08:03 PM
Well, jeez, since you've stated it many times, it MUST be right.

Finally you are getting it.. Was wondering if that would happen..

those that are expecting loads of off season moves being made and all those biggie talented UFA are going to be very surprised..

Pat was milked almost dry in the past and has set down budget that both Josh and John have had to live under..

This year he has to spend 80% of the cap.. which means about 108 mil still about 13 mil under the cap..

If that is the case which I believe it will be there is damned little funds to waste or to play with other than just filling out the roster with inexpensive guys..

Pat just does not have the sense of urgency that many of you have.. He will put out a damned fine team, barring loads of injuries will be competitive and IF the breaks fall our way we will be in the playoffs again..

While there are a few really good posters here I suggest those that are serious go to Itsalloverfatman and listen to the real stuff..

I suspect they are a lot closer to what will happen than most on here want to believe..

lonestar
01-30-2013, 08:09 PM
What is with you and Clady? Did he steal your milk money once, or something?

I mean you're talking about a OLT that's made the probowl three out of five years(should have been 4 out of 5, but 1 was stolen by Joe Thomas for no good reason). Is it because after blocking for 17 seconds to give up a sack on Tebow(in reality Tebow was running around like an idiot for 16 seconds)?

Not at all He was a great OLT until his knee got blown out, since then contrary to popular opinion he is not what he used to be..

While everyone seems to believe he deserves elite money..

With the shoulder surgery AT best he gets tagged this year.. Until he proves to the powers to be that he healed up.. which means instead of spending 12 million this year on his new contract they spend less than 10 (9.66) and have not long term commitment issues in case he does not heal up..

read it a weep..

Inkana7
01-30-2013, 08:10 PM
shut up

lonestar
01-30-2013, 08:12 PM
shut up

I did not say a thing.. Stop reading if you do to want facts

Inkana7
01-30-2013, 08:15 PM
I did not say a thing.. Stop reading if you do to want facts

JUST STOP IT MAN

lonestar
01-30-2013, 08:21 PM
JUST STOP IT MAN

Why so you do not have to actually think?


If you want to be a mindless drone then place me on ignore.

Then you can just putter away Inkana happy state of madden.

Inkana7
01-30-2013, 09:21 PM
Why so you do not have to actually think?


If you want to be a mindless drone then place me on ignore.

Then you can just putter away Inkana happy state of madden.

CMON DUDE WHAT DON'T YOU GET

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-30-2013, 09:50 PM
Not at all He was a great OLT until his knee got blown out, since then contrary to popular opinion he is not what he used to be..

While everyone seems to believe he deserves elite money..

With the shoulder surgery AT best he gets tagged this year.. Until he proves to the powers to be that he healed up.. which means instead of spending 12 million this year on his new contract they spend less than 10 (9.66) and have not long term commitment issues in case he does not heal up..

read it a weep..

That means he still earned 2 probowls on a bum knee. Ooopppppsss did I say that out loud.

You have a pattern. You don't like Clady and DJ. Do I think that DJ is worth $6mil. No. But I do think that DJ is worth something to stay on the team. Thing is you have more against DJ who has help the team win more games then Mays who has done jack since signing his big contract. Is it because they were Shannahan draft choices?

cutthemdown
01-30-2013, 10:38 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see broncos make a good offer, but not a slam dunk offer to Clady. He will want more. Broncos will tag him and he will show up right before season starts and sign his franchise tender.

I think Elway will want to lock him up 4-5 yr deal etc but Clady is going to demand to be the highest paid offensive lineman in the NFL. Not sure with Mannings quick release and Cladys avg run blocking that is a smart deal for Broncos.

hes a good player though I like Clady.

cutthemdown
01-30-2013, 10:41 PM
I thought what Broncos offered Clady before seemed pretty fair and Clady thought it wasn't even close right? The good news is more and more college players are ready to play then ever before. Vets think bigger rosters will help them, but really that just gives them more room for good young players.

Im i wrong in thinking that? Or does it seem like the rookies are just better then ever? Seems like a lot more start early then ever before.

lonestar
01-31-2013, 12:42 AM
That means he still earned 2 probowls on a bum knee. Ooopppppsss did I say that out loud.

You have a pattern. You don't like Clady and DJ. Do I think that DJ is worth $6mil. No. But I do think that DJ is worth something to stay on the team. Thing is you have more against DJ who has help the team win more games then Mays who has done jack since signing his big contract. Is it because they were Shannahan draft choices?

There you go thinking again.

I have more against dumb ass because he is a dumb ass.

Just because mikey sctprewed the pooch by giving him elite money in a long term contract just compounds the problem.

Last year everyone said woe is me what are we going to do without him. The best tacklers on the team, he led the team in tackles for the past few years.

What are we going to do.?

So John fubars it by signing Mayes to a longer term semi elite LB mney.

Fact is dumb ass had a whooping 14 tackles this year and WW led the team in tackles IIRC. Mayes was cut loose after a few games when it was apparent that he was a mistake. They put a totally over the hill guy in to run the defense and we shot up 20 some odd spots in the rankings. Without dumb ass playing hardly at all and if he was in the game he was not effective. Without our two most expensive LBs on the field hardly at all.

Hmmmmm
BTW IIRC my only comments about Mayes have been in support of John, John and JDR giving him huge contract thinking he was the man. Crap happens.

As for Clady at first I had little if any love for the guy. Then he turns out to be a damned fine OT. I have given him props since and really up till he screwed the pooch and team by being stupid and playing a pick up game of BB.

While he has gained honors the past couple of years. We all know that pro bowl honors are beauty contests and that many players are voted in on a popularity contest or name recognition.

Is he one of the best? I guess if John gives him 12 million a year that question will be answered once and for all.

But if he gets tagged this year will you admit that just maybe he is not the super hero you think he is.

Somehow I doubt that you have the huevous to do that.

I have never liked players that earn millions and screw over their team mates by doing something stupid and both Clady and DJ are at the top of that list.

Dj is gone from Denver he just has not gotten the memo yet, Clady and his agent know the tag memo is coming after the shoulder surgery why have you not figured it out yet.

lonestar
01-31-2013, 12:50 AM
I thought what Broncos offered Clady before seemed pretty fair and Clady thought it wasn't even close right? The good news is more and more college players are ready to play then ever before. Vets think bigger rosters will help them, but really that just gives them more room for good young players.

Im i wrong in thinking that? Or does it seem like the rookies are just better then ever? Seems like a lot more start early then ever before.

He was offered a good to semi get contract considering his play the past few years. IIRC last year led the league in holding calls. Allowed more sacks than ever before. His knee IMO has never healed completely.

Now they have a hammer to use in tagging him or asking him to take a very low contract with the surgery he is going to have.

No one wants damaged goods and certainly not going to give him a huge guarantee. The question is how they tag him, do they give him a chance to be claimed and then get a draft choice for him. Iirc one of the tags we get two number ones for the guy.

I'd do that in a heart beat as most likely they will be for a team that was a bottom feeder this year.

Or just two 15s are worth more than Clady at. 12 million + a year for the next 5 years. IMHO.

eddie mac
01-31-2013, 04:27 AM
Isnt it only the top 51 salaries that count against it? Futures contracts really wouldnt apply?

We only have 50 players under contract as of now so yes they all basically apply.

TonyR
01-31-2013, 06:17 AM
IAOFM is suggesting this morning that the $18.5 million cap room figure probably doesn't include performance escalators triggered during the season so our cap room will probably be closer to $15 million.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/is-denvers-2013-cap-space-already-eroding

Rascal
01-31-2013, 07:17 AM
I figured that was the case when reports starting come out yesterday about triggers being hit (Decker, Champ, etc).

mwill07
01-31-2013, 07:38 AM
I have never liked players that earn millions and screw over their team mates by doing something stupid and both Clady and DJ are at the top of that list.



are you really putting pick-up basketball on the same level as DUI and/or using PED's?

come on now.

MagicHef
01-31-2013, 08:22 AM
Here's a cool doo-dad for 2012 salaries:

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/interactive/2013/jan/30/nfl-salaries-team-position#denver-broncos,denver-broncos

lonestar
01-31-2013, 08:29 AM
We only have 50 players under contract as of now so yes they all basically apply.

none of the players signed (about 15) since the EOS are accounted for in the 18.5 mil, that has been bandied about.
That amount was originally figured at about 7 mil in the increase of the cap level this year and 11.5 being carried over from the surplus of last years cap.

Since we will go to about 90 for training camp. The real amount of money we have will not be known until they make the cut down.

Can you answer a question that no me seems to know. It is my impression that even though it is based on the top 51 players on the pay roll, it also includes those on IR for the year.
do you know for sure one way or the other?

If not what would stop a team from stashing players that are marginally hurt till next year when the cap values go up or an aging vet retires, or better yet waiting out the end of a contract that is due to expire like say Kuper or Champ..

Any thoughts on that.


Correct me if any of the above is incorrect as they say you are the cap Ace..

lonestar
01-31-2013, 08:39 AM
are you really putting pick-up basketball on the same level as DUI and/or using PED's?

come on now.

Yes, if he would have permentaly wrecked the knee, while having a guaranteed contract that is the same thing as being suspended for the year.

The team suffers because they do not have his talent on game day as well being unable to replace him (no money).

It is detrimental conduct to the team. The fact that DEN would have paid him or had to pay him for something that was prohibited in his contract, says volumes about Pat and his FO.

I realize that many in today's society feel entitled to do whatever they want to do because it feels good, but once your an adult and sign a contract, you should love up to it. Even as one sided as NFL contract seem to be, they should man up and do the RIGHT THING. In his case no pick up basketball.

Probably why initially it was not reported that way. He knew he did something not in his contract, was trying to weasel out.

But the truth always comes out , just like BM and his mc Donald's slip, Greise and his tripped over his dog.

maven
01-31-2013, 08:51 AM
Anyone up for cutting Champ and his $10 million bucks?

lonestar
01-31-2013, 09:32 AM
Anyone up for cutting Champ and his $10 million bucks?

I vote NO, considering him and Harris were considered the top CB duo on the NFL..

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/31/signature-stats-ypcs-cornerbacks/

Requiem
01-31-2013, 09:42 AM
Effective immediately: The OrangeMane poster lonestar has been cut from the forums. A waiver claim was submitted by The (Cleveland) Browns Board.

lonestar
01-31-2013, 10:12 AM
CMON DUDE WHAT DON'T YOU GET

Hey Sonny I'm not your dude.

What you seem to forget this is a message board to exchange ideas, some more popular like let's get every potential player on the planet and some more realistic, like we can't afford the players that were on last years team let alone revis and every other malcontent in the NFL that wants a new contract.

Facts are as of about now because of escalators (based on performance they are due more money this coming year than originally stated) in some of last year top performers we now have closer to 10 million not the 18.5 originally published.

If that is the case then without cutting players like DJ, Mayes, prater, we may not be even able to tag Clady. 9.6 mil. Let alone resign some ofthe other 18 or so UFA on the team in our last game.

Cold hard facts..

Tombstone RJ
01-31-2013, 11:16 AM
lol

Heyneck
01-31-2013, 11:54 AM
let it be people... we are only going to be able to retain our own scrubs and that of other teams. The realistic facts have been showed!!!

DBroncos4life
01-31-2013, 12:20 PM
let it be people... we are only going to be able to retain our own scrubs and that of other teams. The realistic facts have been showed!!!

I heard the Denver Broncos are going to have to fold due to the fact that the cap is a exact science and not a number that has been cheated over the years by cap gurus that know how to write contracts. Only Lonestar knows... because he has the schwartz and all.

Requiem
01-31-2013, 12:59 PM
let it be people... we are only going to be able to retain our own scrubs and that of other teams. The realistic facts have been showed!!!

This Vader avatar is legit, but put up the babes again bro!

SeedReaver
01-31-2013, 01:30 PM
This Vader avatar is legit, but put up the babes again bro!
I miss the bouncing butts. Whenever my girlfriend sees me checking out OM, she thinks it's because of all the pictures of women. I tell her I check the forum because I'm a big Broncos fan, and that the avatars just get scrolled over because I see them all the time.

It's a lie. I do it for the boob mojo.

Requiem
01-31-2013, 01:39 PM
I miss the bouncing butts. Whenever my girlfriend sees me checking out OM, she thinks it's because of all the pictures of women. I tell her I check the forum because I'm a big Broncos fan, and that the avatars just get scrolled over because I see them all the time.

It's a lie. I do it for the boob mojo.

Nice man. Rep. :)

Tombstone RJ
01-31-2013, 02:11 PM
let it be people... we are only going to be able to retain our own scrubs and that of other teams. The realistic facts have been showed!!!

no giggle butts, no dice.

I meant "jiggle" of course, good thing you are smarter than me!

24champ
01-31-2013, 02:29 PM
Effective immediately: The OrangeMane poster lonestar has been cut from the forums. A waiver claim was submitted by The (Cleveland) Browns Board.

Chiefsplanet beat them to it. I think it will be a good fit for Lonestar, he can get good tips on how to maintain his trailer home.

Bacchus
01-31-2013, 02:45 PM
no giggle butts, no dice.

like this?

Heyneck
01-31-2013, 03:04 PM
the butts are back!!!

Heyneck
01-31-2013, 03:08 PM
like this?

I see your butt... I raise your butt!

http://bigassgifs.com/assets/alexis-texas-booty-shake.gif

Bacchus
01-31-2013, 03:57 PM
now this thread is hitting stride.

Tombstone RJ
01-31-2013, 04:01 PM
lol, this thread just got crazy good....

TonyR
02-01-2013, 09:42 AM
Escalators push Woodyard's 2013 salary from $2million to $3million. Denver's cap room now looking like $13-14million.

And Doom makes $12 million in 2013. Wow.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/escalator-bumps-woodyards-2013-salary-from-2m-to-3m

eddie mac
02-01-2013, 12:28 PM
none of the players signed (about 15) since the EOS are accounted for in the 18.5 mil, that has been bandied about.
That amount was originally figured at about 7 mil in the increase of the cap level this year and 11.5 being carried over from the surplus of last years cap.

Since we will go to about 90 for training camp. The real amount of money we have will not be known until they make the cut down.

Can you answer a question that no me seems to know. It is my impression that even though it is based on the top 51 players on the pay roll, it also includes those on IR for the year.
do you know for sure one way or the other?

If not what would stop a team from stashing players that are marginally hurt till next year when the cap values go up or an aging vet retires, or better yet waiting out the end of a contract that is due to expire like say Kuper or Champ..

Any thoughts on that.


Correct me if any of the above is incorrect as they say you are the cap Ace..

Yes, whenever the league season kicks off all 53 rostered players count against the salary cap and players stashed on IR.

So as example if we had been say $1.5m under the cap when Mays went down, we get no relief, Brooking could not have been offered more than $1.5m unless the Broncos restructured someone else's deal.

lonestar
02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
Yes, whenever the league season kicks off all 53 rostered players count against the salary cap and players stashed on IR.

So as example if we had been say $1.5m under the cap when Mays went down, we get no relief, Brooking could not have been offered more than $1.5m unless the Broncos restructured someone else's deal.

Thanks for the response.

That is what I thought.

So that really means they have to budget for that. Plan on having X amount of players tying up space while they are on IR.

It they do that, they actually have to spend less than the 10 million that is currently "left". Since they have to plan on 3-5 million for rookie contracts. That puts us at between 5 and 7 left to spend without cutting players or trying to re-do pricy contracts.

That said we all know they will start cutting players soon after Monday, the end of the 21012 season.
I suspect mays, Williams both head that list with some saying that even though prater only saves a 250K this year his being cut today saves us about 5 mil over the duration of his contact.


In your opinion who else gets the cap AXE.

eddie mac
02-01-2013, 01:09 PM
Thanks for the response.

That is what I thought.

So that really means they have to budget for that. Plan on having X amount of players tying up space while they are on IR.

It they do that, they actually have to spend less than the 10 million that is currently "left". Since they have to plan on 3-5 million for rookie contracts. That puts us at between 5 and 7 left to spend without cutting players or trying to re-do pricy contracts.

That said we all know they will start cutting players soon after Monday, the end of the 21012 season.
I suspect mays, Williams both head that list with some saying that even though prater only saves a 250K this year his being cut today saves us about 5 mil over the duration of his contact.


In your opinion who else gets the cap AXE.

Cutting DJ and Mays nearly doubles Denver's caproom, whether they try to restructure either deal or a cut and re-sign I've no idea, doubt whether either would have any real trade value given DJ's legal issues and Mays' salary.

I dont think they'll even consider cutting Matt despite that expensive FG miss, he should never have been on the field for that anyway with the wind.

I can see Elway going to the Manning, Bailey and Dumervil deals and maybe spreading some of their expensive $41m worth of base salaries over the next few years of their deals to create some more room.

Our restricted/exclusive rights free agents are gonna cost around $3m to bring back, i.e Colquitt, Unrein and Carter.

All in all I reckon we'll be in the middle of the pack, we wont lose anyone we dont want to lose but at the same time I doubt if we'll be in the market for another Manning type signing, just cant afford it, really, we'll add some pieces at DT, DE, DB, OG and possibly slot WR and the rest through the draft.

SlyEli
02-01-2013, 02:55 PM
I'd like to see them bring in Reggie Bush, Wes Welker, And a top fa Safety.. I can dream right?

yerner
02-01-2013, 03:54 PM
I'd like to see them bring in Reggie Bush, Wes Welker, And a top fa Safety.. I can dream right?

not bad. i would have gone with a wr cast of thomas, decker, welker, wallace and bowe in madden back in the day. 5 wr sets.

TheReverend
02-01-2013, 04:14 PM
not bad. i would have gone with a wr cast of thomas, decker, welker, wallace and bowe in madden back in the day. 5 wr sets.

Haha, I cant imagine finding a way to pay for that.

Even Dan Snyder is like "Whoa! Calm down, bro".

DENVERDUI55
02-01-2013, 05:07 PM
Well Prater, Mays, and DJ should be gone come day one of the end of the season. Gonna need to get some hits in the draft big time because FA players get way too much.

eddie mac
02-01-2013, 08:10 PM
Well Prater, Mays, and DJ should be gone come day one of the end of the season. Gonna need to get some hits in the draft big time because FA players get way too much.

Since when has Prater even been mentioned as a potential cut???

His FG % accuracy improved in 2012 and that after he received a bumper contract. There's no way they're getting rid of him over a kick that Fox should never have asked him to make against the Ravens. 53 yards against a force wind. He would also account for $2.4m on the cap even if Elway & Co decided to do the unthinkable.

DENVERDUI55
02-01-2013, 08:17 PM
Since when has Prater even been mentioned as a potential cut???

His FG % accuracy improved in 2012 and that after he received a bumper contract. There's no way they're getting rid of him over a kick that Fox should never have asked him to make against the Ravens. 53 yards against a force wind. He would also account for $2.4m on the cap even if Elway & Co decided to do the unthinkable.

I'm not talking about the missed kick in the playoffs. He is below average from 40-49 yards and it was quite obvious down the stretch he had the yipps. I thought the cut of Prater would save money this year and for sure in the years ahead. He just isn't worth his money that's all.

lonestar
02-02-2013, 04:20 PM
I'm not talking about the missed kick in the playoffs. He is below average from 40-49 yards and it was quite obvious down the stretch he had the yipps. I thought the cut of Prater would save money this year and for sure in the years ahead. He just isn't worth his money that's all.

Your are correct it was not one kick. Something Fox should have not even thought of let alone attempt, on a cold day(balls are much harder) against the wind on a an almost frozen field. ( which was a disgrace IMO it has a heating system to keep the grass growing year round.)

But a kicker that makes 2+ million a year should be able to consistently kick the ball out of the EZ on every KO regardless of where we play. Needs to be a lock on anything under 30 yards for FGs, above average under 50 and ok under 60.

IMHO unless it is the last play of the game we should never attempt a FG over 50. But I'm not the one making big bucks to call the game.

If he goes this year we save about 250K about what a new kicker would cost. But over the life of his contact we save 8 million. Just under 4 in 2014 and just over 4 in 2015.

He had the yips for sure. Not someone yoi pay 3+ million to.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2013, 07:44 AM
Your are correct it was not one kick. Something Fox should have not even thought of let alone attempt, on a cold day(balls are much harder) against the wind on a an almost frozen field. ( which was a disgrace IMO it has a heating system to keep the grass growing year round.)

But a kicker that makes 2+ million a year should be able to consistently kick the ball out of the EZ on every KO regardless of where we play. Needs to be a lock on anything under 30 yards for FGs, above average under 50 and ok under 60.

IMHO unless it is the last play of the game we should never attempt a FG over 50. But I'm not the one making big bucks to call the game.

If he goes this year we save about 250K about what a new kicker would cost. But over the life of his contact we save 8 million. Just under 4 in 2014 and just over 4 in 2015.

He had the yips for sure. Not someone yoi pay 3+ million to.
I am curious, who on this team do you want to keep? It seems like every one of your posts is bitching about a player not being worth being paid to be kept around.

elsid13
02-03-2013, 08:03 AM
not bad. i would have gone with a wr cast of thomas, decker, welker, wallace and bowe in madden back in the day. 5 wr sets.

To be realistic Madden season, you would have traded 7th rounder, Matt Willis and Stokely for Megatron.

lonestar
02-03-2013, 12:52 PM
I am curious, who on this team do you want to keep? It seems like every one of your posts is b****ing about a player not being worth being paid to be kept around.

If you have not noticed I'm not a cheerleader, nor am I rah rahing every UFA that is cut or will be.

I simply point out the obvious for those that want any and every warm body that might be a available.

Some needs to be realistic.

That said I'm a fan of the following Decker, DT, miller, unrien, Bannan, Vickerson, Beadles, Franklin, Walton, Champ, Harris, Woodyard, Kuper(although I think he will never be the same guy he was few years ago) and Manning to name a few.

I do not believe in keeping folks that are over paid for their job or want more than they are worth(being deter mental to the team because they make to much) of which Champ, Doom and Manning come close to falling into that area.

I'm a fan of the team not individuals. If and when Any player that puts his well being in front of the team then he can leave and was happy to see shefter, cutlet and BM leave a few years ago.

They were me first guys. Frankly I think John has unloaded all the rest. All the while drafting team captains, and smart players. Perhaps not all the best at their positions but those guys also try harder.

I'm rooting for Garland to make the team this year.

SlyEli
02-03-2013, 02:19 PM
I do not believe in keeping folks that are over paid for their job or want more than they are worth(being deter mental to the team because they make to much) of which Champ, Doom and Manning come close to falling into that area.


Manning instantly makes any team a contender. He is the most valuable player in the league. He earns every dollar he makes. People forget how close this team was to reaching the Super Bowl

NFLBRONCO
02-03-2013, 08:17 PM
Manning instantly makes any team a contender. He is the most valuable player in the league. He earns every dollar he makes. People forget how close this team was to reaching the Super Bowl

I agree that Manning makes us contender in reg season. Manning in playoffs is hardly anything to cheer about 8 first game exits (9-11 overall). Moore play hurt but, Mannings brain fart in OT sent us home.

lonestar
02-03-2013, 10:34 PM
Manning instantly makes any team a contender. He is the most valuable player in the league. He earns every dollar he makes. People forget how close this team was to reaching the Super Bowl

Seems like he took us to the second round of the playoffs the same as last year.

And if yoi would have put Manning on the JAx, OAK or for that matter CAR team they would have been contenders?

How about KC with their crappy coaching.

I fear you have been drinking the cool aide again.

Do not get me wrong but we had access to Kapernick in the draft and passed on him. Wonder what he could have done for one hell of a lot less money than Manning is getting.

Just think how many other impact players we could have had for that 20 mil per year.

Just a little food for thought.

SlyEli
02-03-2013, 10:55 PM
Seems like he took us to the second round of the playoffs the same as last year.

seems to me like our second round game with manning was closer than the year before with tebow.

Wes Mantooth
02-03-2013, 11:44 PM
I agree that Manning makes us contender in reg season. Manning in playoffs is hardly anything to cheer about 8 first game exits (9-11 overall). Moore play hurt but, Mannings brain fart in OT sent us home.

Horrible officiating and our odiot safety actually sent us home.

Archer81
02-03-2013, 11:56 PM
I agree that Manning makes us contender in reg season. Manning in playoffs is hardly anything to cheer about 8 first game exits (9-11 overall). Moore play hurt but, Mannings brain fart in OT sent us home.


Manning led the drive that put us up by 7 late in the 4th quarter. If Moore even considers playing that defense correctly, we advance and Baltimore goes home.

:Broncos:

lonestar
02-04-2013, 12:55 AM
seems to me like our second round game with manning was closer than the year before with tebow.

Wow spitting hairs. Did we win this years game? Yes or NO?

Unless we won it the end result was exactly the same.

Much to my dismay.

lonestar
02-04-2013, 12:59 AM
Horrible officiating and our odiot safety actually sent us home.

Our inability to pressure flacko cost us the game not to mention stopping the run when we had to very late in the game.

But piss and moan about the officials all off season and see who besides you cares.

Get pressure and own the LOS and even they have a hard time beating us.

Btw Champ did us no favors also.

go_broncos
02-04-2013, 04:23 AM
Elway - please don't draft/get players like Rahim Moore.

NFLBRONCO
02-04-2013, 07:31 AM
Horrible officiating and our odiot safety actually sent us home.

My point is why doesn't Manning get any blame for his brain fart we had an opportunity to win it still even after idiot Moore and he choked in OT. I don't see why he doesn't get ripped on alittle.

NFLBRONCO
02-04-2013, 07:39 AM
Manning led the drive that put us up by 7 late in the 4th quarter. If Moore even considers playing that defense correctly, we advance and Baltimore goes home.

:Broncos:

We had a chance to still WIN IT in OT and Manning choked period. Moore deserves getting ripped on.

No pass rush killed us too

All our biggest stars took a dump at the end that's concerning for a team not loaded with talent.

mwill07
02-04-2013, 07:43 AM
Seems like he took us to the second round of the playoffs the same as last year.

And if yoi would have put Manning on the JAx, OAK or for that matter CAR team they would have been contenders?

How about KC with their crappy coaching.
...

absolutely.

mwill07
02-04-2013, 08:46 AM
Let me make Lonestar's case here - I'm looking at some numbers and am coming around a bit.

Here are the key FA's I'd like re-signed - i believe these guys are either better than the other FA's available (at cost) and/or they played a critical role in 2012 and will be needed for a similar role in 2013.

first column is 2012 salary (per spotrac), second column is my projected 2013 salary.

2012 salary 2013 projection justification
clady $3,500,000.00 $12,000,000 Joe Thomas money.
bannon $1,000,000.00 $1,000,000.00 just above min wage for 10+ year vet.
brunton $615,000.00 $715,000.00 special teams ace
carter $615,000.00 $1,000,000.00 does anyone doubt Carter will be a millionare next season?
colquit $540,000.00 $1,000,000.00 top 10 punters make >$1.7M
hunter $700,000.00 $840,000.00 nfl min wage
koppen $825,000.00 $940,000.00 nfl min wage
stokley $925,000.00 $940,000.00 nfl min wage
vickers $1,200,000.00 $1,200,000.00 same salary as 2012

total $19,635,000.00

That puts us over right there. of course, we will probably cut DJ, Mays, and possibly Hanie and Prater for more wiggle room, but this leaves precious little room for bringing in other FA's and signing draft picks.

further, I don't think we want to be right up against the cap anyways. We have a number of players who will become FA's in 2014 and will need new deals then - Demaryius, Decker, Beadles, Harris, Walton, Woodyard, and Ayers - that's 7 young guys who have started a number of games for us over the past couple of seasons, and will all be due a pretty good pay-bump. These are not NFL minimum guys.

We are going to be hurting in 2014 if we don't start addressing this right now.

Bacchus
02-04-2013, 01:57 PM
Let me make Lonestar's case here - I'm looking at some numbers and am coming around a bit.

Here are the key FA's I'd like re-signed - i believe these guys are either better than the other FA's available (at cost) and/or they played a critical role in 2012 and will be needed for a similar role in 2013.

first column is 2012 salary (per spotrac), second column is my projected 2013 salary.

2012 salary 2013 projection justification
clady $3,500,000.00 $12,000,000 Joe Thomas money.
bannon $1,000,000.00 $1,000,000.00 just above min wage for 10+ year vet.
brunton $615,000.00 $715,000.00 special teams ace
carter $615,000.00 $1,000,000.00 does anyone doubt Carter will be a millionare next season?
colquit $540,000.00 $1,000,000.00 top 10 punters make >$1.7M
hunter $700,000.00 $840,000.00 nfl min wage
koppen $825,000.00 $940,000.00 nfl min wage
stokley $925,000.00 $940,000.00 nfl min wage
vickers $1,200,000.00 $1,200,000.00 same salary as 2012

total $19,635,000.00

That puts us over right there. of course, we will probably cut DJ, Mays, and possibly Hanie and Prater for more wiggle room, but this leaves precious little room for bringing in other FA's and signing draft picks.

further, I don't think we want to be right up against the cap anyways. We have a number of players who will become FA's in 2014 and will need new deals then - Demaryius, Decker, Beadles, Harris, Walton, Woodyard, and Ayers - that's 7 young guys who have started a number of games for us over the past couple of seasons, and will all be due a pretty good pay-bump. These are not NFL minimum guys.

We are going to be hurting in 2014 if we don't start addressing this right now.

Clady will get $12 mil a year but his cap number will be much lower due to the large signing bonus. Same with eveyrone else on that list.

mwill07
02-04-2013, 02:23 PM
Clady will get $12 mil a year but his cap number will be much lower due to the large signing bonus. Same with eveyrone else on that list.

well sure - if you go guaranteed heavy and then light on the salary, you can stretch things out some and get some relief, but then when players under perform (or don't perform i.e. injury), that's how you end up with dead money on the books.

I don't think this FO likes playing that way, it really limits what you can do. Obviously, there will be some singing bonus and the numbers won't be quite as bleak as I had above, but not by far. What could we save with creative accounting off of the cap...a third? maybe $6M?

That would be $13M towards simply signing our own guys. Tack on $3M for rookies, adjust for the earned escalators, we are a couple mil over the $13M or $14M IAOFM thinks we have (http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/escalator-bumps-woodyards-2013-salary-from-2m-to-3m).

Simply signing our own guys leaves little room for future FA acquisitions, much less room to extend the core group of guys we have been building around.

Bacchus
02-04-2013, 02:30 PM
well sure - if you go guaranteed heavy and then light on the salary, you can stretch things out some and get some relief, but then when players under perform (or don't perform i.e. injury), that's how you end up with dead money on the books.

I don't think this FO likes playing that way, it really limits what you can do. Obviously, there will be some singing bonus and the numbers won't be quite as bleak as I had above, but not by far. What could we save with creative accounting off of the cap...a third? maybe $6M?

That would be $13M towards simply signing our own guys. Tack on $3M for rookies, adjust for the earned escalators, we are a couple mil over the $13M or $14M IAOFM thinks we have (http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/escalator-bumps-woodyards-2013-salary-from-2m-to-3m).

Simply signing our own guys leaves little room for future FA acquisitions, much less room to extend the core group of guys we have been building around.

That the way it is Clady will be looking at $30 million signing bonus that will be spread out through the life of the contract making his cap figure lower.

Requiem
02-04-2013, 04:09 PM
. . . and given the fact that people like Manning and Champ who are taking up tens of millions each year will be out of the picture in 2-3 years . . .

We will be able to re-sign our young studs.

Stop crying you babies.

eddie mac
02-04-2013, 04:39 PM
That the way it is Clady will be looking at $30 million signing bonus that will be spread out through the life of the contract making his cap figure lower.

We wont pay that kind of cash to him in 2013.

He wont get much more than $10m-$15m up front, considering they'll already be paying over $40m cash to Peyton, Bailey and Dumervil alone.

$13.7m is the largest signing bonus Denver has paid in recent years which went to the No2 pick in the draft as per the slotted draft pick money that season. Bailey is the only other player who's received a signing bonus of $5m or more in the last few years.

We basically just pay big base salaries now with small signing bonuses.

lonestar
02-04-2013, 11:58 PM
That the way it is Clady will be looking at $30 million signing bonus that will be spread out through the life of the contract making his cap figure lower.

So prorating that 30 mil over the 4 year contract is 7.5 million a year.
Or if it is a 5 year contact 6 million a year.

What are you saving?

Nada.

Now tagging him until he proves his shoulder and knee (from years ago) are fixed and no apparent side effects. That costs 9.6 this coming year.

BTW he turned down 10 million a year last summer what makes ANYONE beleive he will take less after this past years performance.

Last but not least. When you give him a 30 million dollar signing bonuse that is a check that is written the day the contract is signed.

Since it has been rumored Pat is broke that is why we are not doing that anymore. Whether that is true or not the facts speak for themselves.

lonestar
02-05-2013, 12:03 AM
We wont pay that kind of cash to him in 2013.

He wont get much more than $10m-$15m up front, considering they'll already be paying over $40m cash to Peyton, Bailey and Dumervil alone.

$13.7m is the largest signing bonus Denver has paid in recent years which went to the No2 pick in the draft as per the slotted draft pick money that season. Bailey is the only other player who's received a signing bonus of $5m or more in the last few years.

We basically just pay big base salaries now with small signing bonuses.

Sorry I did not see this when I posted the above post.

As usual a heads up post. :thumbs:

Do you really think considering his latest surgery John will sign him long term or tag him to delay expending the money and make sure he is "RIGHT".

lonestar
02-05-2013, 12:55 AM
Let me make Lonestar's case here - I'm looking at some numbers and am coming around a bit.

Here are the key FA's I'd like re-signed - i believe these guys are either better than the other FA's available (at cost) and/or they played a critical role in 2012 and will be needed for a similar role in 2013.

first column is 2012 salary (per spotrac), second column is my projected 2013 salary.

2012 salary 2013 projection justification
clady $3,500,000.00 $12,000,000 Joe Thomas money.
bannon $1,000,000.00 $1,000,000.00 just above min wage for 10+ year vet.
brunton $615,000.00 $715,000.00 special teams ace
carter $615,000.00 $1,000,000.00 does anyone doubt Carter will be a millionare next season?
colquit $540,000.00 $1,000,000.00 top 10 punters make >$1.7M
hunter $700,000.00 $840,000.00 nfl min wage
koppen $825,000.00 $940,000.00 nfl min wage
stokley $925,000.00 $940,000.00 nfl min wage
vickers $1,200,000.00 $1,200,000.00 same salary as 2012

total $19,635,000.00

That puts us over right there. of course, we will probably cut DJ, Mays, and possibly Hanie and Prater for more wiggle room, but this leaves precious little room for bringing in other FA's and signing draft picks.

further, I don't think we want to be right up against the cap anyways. We have a number of players who will become FA's in 2014 and will need new deals then - Demaryius, Decker, Beadles, Harris, Walton, Woodyard, and Ayers - that's 7 young guys who have started a number of games for us over the past couple of seasons, and will all be due a pretty good pay-bump. These are not NFL minimum guys.

We are going to be hurting in 2014 if we don't start addressing this right now.


Good attempt. But I have never said I wanted Clady at that kind of money.

If anything I beleive he will be tagged for this coming year because of the shoulder surgery. Had he not had it I thought we would have been outbid for his services, by eithe a contender just looking for that last piece or a bottom feeder with loads of cash.

The rest of your players and guesstimates are pretty real close to what might happen.

I also think that we will have some 10 million PLUS that will not be spent.

You forgot to add in money's for those players that go on IR, their money counts under the cap also.

DBroncos4life
02-05-2013, 09:49 AM
We get an extra 1.6 million dollars in the cap as well from the Skins and Boys.

TheReverend
02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
We get an extra 1.6 million dollars in the cap as well from the Skins and Boys.

Didn't they win their appeal?

DBroncos4life
02-05-2013, 10:33 AM
Didn't they win their appeal?
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/05/nfl-arbitrator-upholds-salary-cap-penalties-to-cowboys-redskins/1#.URFPDJXnbbU
That was in May and this is from December,
http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-redskins/2012/12/31/3822038/washington-redskins-salary-cap-penalty-dallas-cowboys-nflpa-collusion-david-doty

Judge David Doty dismissed the NFL Players Association's attempt to reopen a claim of collusion against the NFL. The claim arose from salary cap penalties placed on the Washington Redskins and Dallas Cowboys for overspending in 2010.

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/shanahan-says-redskins-still-fighting-cap-penalty

NFL free agency starts on March 12 and by that time every NFL team must be under the salary cap, which is expected to be about $120 million plus credits for cap money that was not spent during 2012.

Well, that will be the cap number for 30 of the league’s 32 teams anyway. The Cowboys will have to trim $5 million off of their spending compared to other NFL teams while the Redskins will have $18 million less to spend. Both teams were hit with salary cap penalties on the eve of free agency a year ago for supposed spending violations when, per the CBA, there were no rules. The Cowboys were hit with a $10 million cap penalty while Washington was slapped with $36 million. The teams “paid” half of their respective penalties last year and the balance is due in 2013,

It has long been thought that the door to the Redskins and Cowboys being able to appeal that penalty has been closed. However, Mike Shanahan said yesterday that was not the case.

eddie mac
02-05-2013, 10:39 AM
Didn't they win their appeal?

No

The Cowboys are still $5m down this year and the Skins $18m

Plus if they did overturn it they'd still have to give Denver the $1.6m considering 25 plus other teams already used theirs last year unless off course they reduced their cap this year to show equality.

peacepipe
02-05-2013, 10:45 AM
We had a chance to still WIN IT in OT and Manning choked period. Moore deserves getting ripped on.

No pass rush killed us too

All our biggest stars took a dump at the end that's concerning for a team not loaded with talent.

the point being we dont even go to OT,if not for our defense screwing up. PM did what he neeed to do for us to win the game,but our defense choked.

TonyR
02-07-2013, 06:31 AM
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-available-cap-adjustments-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

To be crystal clear, this is a 2013 figure, meaning anyone schedule for unrestricted or restricted free agency is not included on the Denver payroll. Re-signing any or all of Brandon Stokley, Tony Carter, Britton Colquitt, Mitch Unrein, Justin Bannan, Kevin Vickerson, David Bruton, Jason Hunter, Dan Koppen, and Jason Hunter will eat away at that $14.1M figure.

Re-signing Ryan Clady or applying the franchise tender to him (very likely to occur) would swallow the majority of it. Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

Rohirrim
02-07-2013, 06:50 AM
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-available-cap-adjustments-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

Yep. Clady looks at that and says, "Come to papa." ;D

TheReverend
02-07-2013, 07:28 AM
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-available-cap-adjustments-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

That is, of course, before DJ is shown the door and Elway reenacts SNL's "Really?" skit with Champ

2KBack
02-07-2013, 07:43 AM
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-available-cap-adjustments-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

Sucks that we have to sign Jason Hunter twice

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 07:54 AM
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-available-cap-adjustments-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

You do realize that the 14.1 million is NOT in fact our available cap number, but only the projected adjustment to the 121 million salary cap we can carry over from unused bonuses and unused 2012 salary cap space. That number would go on top of whatever cap space we may be projected to have in 2013.......

mwill07
02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
You do realize that the 14.1 million is NOT in fact our available cap number, but only the projected adjustment to the 121 million salary cap we can carry over from unused bonuses and unused 2012 salary cap space. That number would go on top of whatever cap space we may be projected to have in 2013.......

huh?

SpringStein
02-07-2013, 08:02 AM
You do realize that the 14.1 million is NOT in fact our available cap number, but only the projected adjustment to the 121 million salary cap we can carry over from unused bonuses and unused 2012 salary cap space. That number would go on top of whatever cap space we may be projected to have in 2013.......

This is the way I read it in PFT. I think Fat Man confuses the issue.

TonyR
02-07-2013, 08:24 AM
You do realize that...

Yes, I did see that after posting. It's all rather confusing...

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 08:31 AM
This is the way I read it in PFT. I think Fat Man confuses the issue.

Yes, I believe you are right.

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 08:31 AM
Yes, I did see that after posting. It's all rather confusing...

Sorry, didn't mean to snap at you, I see the confusion arises from how IAOFM interpreted the number.

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 08:36 AM
huh?

The numbers posted by PFT are not projected cap space numbers for the 2013 season. Each team is allowed to carry over unused cap space from the previous season to the next season, so if you were 10 million under the cap in 2012 you can carry that cap space over and your cap number becomes the league wide cap number plus the 10 million you carry over.

This structure was put in place to avoid the creative use of ridiculous likely to be met bonuses. In the old CBA a team could designate any bonus as likely to be met, any bonus designated likely to be met would count against the salary cap in the year it would be earned. However, if the conditions for a likely to be met bonus were not met, then the team would get a salary cap bonus in the following season in the same amount as the salary cap space they lost to that bonus in the previous season when it counted against the cap but was not actually paid.

Minnesota used this structure with Pat Williams, giving him a bonus for completing more than 100 passes with a value of nearly 20 million dollars in a season when they were far below the salary cap, since Pat Williams as a DT never passed the ball a single time he couldn't actually earn the bonus, but it still allowed Minnesota to carry over 20 million from one year to the next.

Bronco Rob
02-07-2013, 08:38 AM
I think Fat Man confuses the issue.


People it's a blog.

TonyR
02-07-2013, 08:46 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to snap at you, I see the confusion arises from how IAOFM interpreted the number.

No worries. I was lazy and didn't make an effort to try to clarify after posting, so my own fault. And I typically would trust the guys at IAOFM over PFT, particularly on Bronco specific issues.

This was recently posted in the comments section at the IAOFM link:

Either I'm reading this wrong - or Doug is wrong on this assumption. This $14.1 MM is not cap space - but carryover$$ from last year. Which, the way I'm reading it, is good news. If we choose to roll it over (and why wouldn't we?) we are then at about $29MM in cap space - not 14.1 or 15 MM.

Response from Doug:

Unfortunately, the $11.5M carryover is included in that $14.1M figure.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

^ Not sure whether or not he's right about this...

mwill07
02-07-2013, 08:55 AM
The numbers posted by PFT are not projected cap space numbers for the 2013 season. Each team is allowed to carry over unused cap space from the previous season to the next season, so if you were 10 million under the cap in 2012 you can carry that cap space over and your cap number becomes the league wide cap number plus the 10 million you carry over.

This structure was put in place to avoid the creative use of ridiculous likely to be met bonuses. In the old CBA a team could designate any bonus as likely to be met, any bonus designated likely to be met would count against the salary cap in the year it would be earned. However, if the conditions for a likely to be met bonus were not met, then the team would get a salary cap bonus in the following season in the same amount as the salary cap space they lost to that bonus in the previous season when it counted against the cap but was not actually paid.

Minnesota used this structure with Pat Williams, giving him a bonus for completing more than 100 passes with a value of nearly 20 million dollars in a season when they were far below the salary cap, since Pat Williams as a DT never passed the ball a single time he couldn't actually earn the bonus, but it still allowed Minnesota to carry over 20 million from one year to the next.
gotcha, and thanks. So the $14.4 is the rollover amount, not the cap. I think the $11.5M cited is the rollover carried over from 2011 into 2012...right?

SpringStein
02-07-2013, 08:56 AM
^ Not sure whether or not he's right about this...

Me either. ;>)

TonyR
02-07-2013, 08:57 AM
Me either. ;>)

LOL Ah, so you're the one stirring up trouble over at IAOFM! I'm glad you did this. I was going to do the same but for some reason can't log in to post there from work.

mwill07
02-07-2013, 08:58 AM
if anyone cares, spotrac seems to have updated their web page to show the 2013 cap hit. Per spotrac, we are at a current salary of $120.5M. If the cap is actually $121M, the above mentioned $14.4M rollover becomes the de-facto cap space.

Until we cut DJ and Mays, that is. These two represent the 4th and 7th largest cap hits on the team, respectively.

mwill07
02-07-2013, 09:00 AM
also per spotrac, we have less than $1M in dead money currently. That's fantastic. I'm sure this figure goes up as we trim the fat though..

SpringStein
02-07-2013, 09:01 AM
LOL Ah, so you're the one stirring up trouble over at IAOFM! I'm glad you did this. I was going to do the same but for some reason can't log in to post there from work.

I was just trying to get clarification. He (Doug) was reporting the PFT article as if it was cap space. Clearly it wasn't - it was rollover. I'm no cap expert, just trying to get good info like any other fan!

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 09:10 AM
No worries. I was lazy and didn't make an effort to try to clarify after posting, so my own fault. And I typically would trust the guys at IAOFM over PFT, particularly on Bronco specific issues.

This was recently posted in the comments section at the IAOFM link:



Response from Doug:



http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard

^ Not sure whether or not he's right about this...


Of the 14.1 million adjustment number, 11.5 comes from eligible salary cap space from 2012. I am assuming the rest comes from bonuses that were not met but did count towards the 2012 salary cap. Doug is definitely incorrect about the 14.1 million being our available cap the way the list is presented by PFT.

I can't find a credible number on our current salary cap commitment to 2013, but I believe we would be pretty close to the limit. I have seen a number that says we have 18.5 million in cap space including the 11.5 million carry over, but not the 2.6 million extra that PFT lists, so that would put us at 21 million in cap space. I can't stand by these numbers as being credible. My best estimate is that before restructures and cuts and resignings and tags we are about 15-20 million under the cap and this number includes all carried over cap space.

I do think DJ Williams will be a cap casualty, I believe they will ask Champ to take a paycut - I am assuming they can settle on something in the 6 million dollar range for him. I believe Knowshon and Joe Mays will also be given long hard looks - we can save about 3.5 million by cutting Mays and 2.5 million by cutting Knowshon.

On the flip side Clady, Tony Carter and Colquitt may all be due significant raises.

Rohirrim
02-07-2013, 09:27 AM
This structure was put in place to avoid the creative use of ridiculous likely to be met bonuses. In the old CBA a team could designate any bonus as likely to be met, any bonus designated likely to be met would count against the salary cap in the year it would be earned. However, if the conditions for a likely to be met bonus were not met, then the team would get a salary cap bonus in the following season in the same amount as the salary cap space they lost to that bonus in the previous season when it counted against the cap but was not actually paid.


Well, that clears that up. :spit:




I keed. ;D

gyldenlove
02-07-2013, 10:05 AM
Well, that clears that up. :spit:




I keed. ;D

If nobody understood quite what I was trying to say I can only say:

http://www.theantiwarrior.com/wp-content/uploads/missionaccomplished.jpg

TonyR
02-07-2013, 12:37 PM
Another comment from IAOFM responding to our very own Springstein:

Ted and I were just discussing this, actually. Yes, Florio's piece is a bit confusing. He added another one this morning which sort of explains the one linked above:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/07/cap-carryover-figures-are-final-for-2013/

The figures listed by Clayton last month included the available carryover amounts, while the ones from Florio last night show in parentheses the amounts that teams actually chose to carry forward.

Only nine teams have chosen to carry 2012 space forward to 2013.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard#comments

NFLBRONCO
02-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Another comment from IAOFM responding to our very own Springstein:


http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-down-to-14-1m-in-cap-room-lard#comments

Who is Springstein a new poster here? Never heard of him :welcome:

TonyR
02-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Who is Springstein a new poster here? Never heard of him :welcome:

He's "The Boss".

SpringStein
02-07-2013, 01:32 PM
Who is Springstein a new poster here? Never heard of him :welcome:

Look sonny, do I have to drive up there and spank you - again?!

Trust you are doing well, Paul!

NFLBRONCO
02-07-2013, 01:40 PM
Look sonny, do I have to drive up there and spank you - again?!

Trust you are doing well, Paul!

lol

I'm doing as good possible but, not much fun these days.

NFLBRONCO
02-07-2013, 01:42 PM
He's "The Boss".


If that's the case he owes OM a private concert (No Lip Sync)

Requiem
02-07-2013, 01:44 PM
Bruce Springsteen Song Themes In 3 Words: New Jersey, Cars, Getting Beat Up

broncosteven
02-07-2013, 02:07 PM
Bruce Springsteen Song Themes In 3 Words: New Jersey, Cars, Getting Beat Up

"Lost in the Flood" is an Amazing cinematic song that can still be related to today.

SpringStein
02-07-2013, 02:41 PM
SpringStein/Springsteen - different devils of dust!

Bacchus
02-07-2013, 05:30 PM
Bruce Springsteen Song Themes In 3 Words: New Jersey, Cars, Getting Beat Up

Cross out "getting beat up" and add losing job

Bacchus
02-07-2013, 05:33 PM
"Lost in the Flood" is an Amazing cinematic song that can still be related to today.

Lost in the Flood is my favorite song. I love that song.

"Hey kid, you think that's oil? Man, that ain't oil, that's blood"

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VTyn1rEw1VY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

eddie mac
02-07-2013, 06:26 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about the cap because our Front Office couldn't care less about it. Since Mike Shanahan left here it's always been about cash spent in any given NFL year. For instance, last season the Broncos spent approx $125m on their roster. This year they're accounting for just over $105m as we speak. So unless Pat/Elway is willing to budget more cash in 2013 you're likely looking at another $20m-$30m spend on players this year, dont confuse that with caproom, that'll include every single dollar paid to our players this season i.e full signing bonuses, rookies bonuses etc.

CEH
02-12-2013, 06:54 AM
Yesterday Vic Lombardi said a Bronco official told him Denver would still have $11MM in cap space after resigning Clady

That is a lot of change to play with in March

I'm sure that includes the cuts of Mays and DJ

NFLBRONCO
02-12-2013, 08:51 AM
Signing Manning means spending bucks as long as the era lasts. Sitting idle would really make alot wonder why we even signed Manning all chips are in.

Bacchus
02-12-2013, 06:35 PM
What do you people think of Alan Branch. He is a FA from the seahawks. He is 6'6" 325 lbs and is 28 years old. He is not an every donw player but line him up next to Vickerson and let Bannon go and I think he would be an upgrade at a reasonable price.