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OrangeSe7en
01-06-2013, 02:32 PM
You don't need to live here. Just be informed like the fact Bowlen and Elway had dinner together at Elways' the day McD was fired. There were clues the whole month of Dec 2010

Yes, but he thinks you know this by radar.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-06-2013, 02:37 PM
Joshy that the best you got.

What the comment was about cutlet was at best would have been just a part of the decision making process.

John is smart enough to know that changing coaching anD schemes. Like underwear causes just that more confusion and time to get there. (Promised land). Any way it is academic. John never had the chance to make the decision.
True that you don't want to change coaching staffs to often. But what does it say about the situation that Mr.Bowlen was willing to make the change 3/4 through the season. Whatever the reason it was dire to the future of the team. Whether you think Spygate was a big deal or not. Or trading away a franchise QB and WR and getting nothing in return was a good thing or not. It all came down to the direction where the Broncos were going. To bad for Mcdumbass that everything was pointing down for the Broncos.

Blueflame
01-06-2013, 02:57 PM
While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.

Doesn't it stand to reason that if Elway perceived the situation when he took over as: "the Broncos were in the worst shape ever", then surely Bowlen had to have noticed it too and concurred? As has been noted earlier in the thread, Elway was in a position to know what was really going on in discussions behind closed doors... he was "in the loop" and his words most definitely aren't an endorsement of McDaniels or an indication that he (John) believed McDaniels should have been given another season. I'm genuinely interested in seeing quotes from anyone in the Broncos' front office that could possibly be construed to suggest that there was any chance of retaining a coach who had done so much damage to the franchise in such a short time frame.

I believe Elway does, in fact know why Pat chose like he did... and Elway didn't mince any words (he's pretty much flat-out contradicting your hypothesis).

bowtown
01-06-2013, 03:00 PM
While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.

Illegible.

DBroncos4life
01-06-2013, 05:03 PM
If you every find yourself wondering how bad of a coach McD really was just turn on a Seahawk game and watch Lynch run.

hambone13
01-06-2013, 05:04 PM
Once again attack the poster opposed to debate the post. Typical.

There are some pretty bright, experienced and insightful people on this forum and I thank Taco for facilitating it. You on the other hand are more interested in your localized, self absorbed perspectives which lack merit. Hmmmm, who might the bright poster choose?

You seem like a decent student of the game but your perspective is hyper-frequently antiquated with your opinion that holds no merit. The interesting thing is that you don't see that you're the void. Evaluate that and get back.

baja
01-07-2013, 10:11 AM
Many times reference is made to the tendencies of the Broncos.
1. the Broncos fade down the stretch.

2. The Broncos fade late in games.

3. The Broncos do not play well when traveling East and playing in early games

All these tendencies are based on the Broncos teams of the first half of the 2000 decade but this is not your Broncos of that earlier time. I was curious about the tenure of the coaching staff. The oldest tenured coach came to the Broncos in 2007 and that is an assistant special teams coach. Here is a list of the current coaches and their tenure. We are a remade team.

We really do have the building blocks of possible dynasty and it starts with Elway.

Clancy Barone
Tight Ends; born July 26, 1963, San Andreas, Calif. Offensive lineman Sacramento State 1981-82, Nevada 1985-86. No pro playing experience. College coach: American River (Calif.) J.C. 1987-89, Sacramento State 1990-92, Texas A&M 1993, Eastern Illinois 1994-96, Wyoming 1997-99, Houston 2000-02, Texas State 2003. Pro coach: Atlanta Falcons 2004-06, San Diego Chargers 2007-08, joined Broncos in 2009.

Keith Burns
Assistant Special Teams; born May 16, 1972, Greeleyville, S.C. Linebacker Oklahoma State 1991-94. Pro linebacker Denver Broncos 1994-98, 2000-03, 2005-06, Chicago Bears 1999, Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2004. Pro coach: Joined Broncos in 2007.

Brian Callahan
Quality Control/Offense; born June 10, 1984, Champaign, Ill. Quarterback UCLA 2002-05. No pro playing experience. College coach: UCLA 2006-07. Pro coach: Joined the Broncos in 2010.

Jack Del Rio
Defensive Coordinator; born April 4, 1963, Castro Valley, California. Linebacker USC 1981-84. Linebacker New Orleans Saints, 1985-86, Kansas City Chiefs 1987-88, Dallas Cowboys 1989-91, Minnesota Vikings 1992-95, Miami Dolphins, 1996. Pro coach: Baltimore Ravens, 1999-01, Carolina Panthers, 2002, Jacksonville Jaguars 2003-11 (head coach). Joined Broncos in 2012.
Mike Eubanks
assistant Strength and Conditioning; born Dec. 31, 1980. Safety, University of Wisconsin-Eau-Claire 2000-02. No pro playing experience. College coach: Arizona State 2008-09. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars 2009-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.

Adam Gase
Quarterbacks; born March 29, 1978, Ypsilanti, Mich. Attended Michigan State. No college or pro playing experience. College coach: Louisiana State 2000-02. Pro coach: Detroit Lions 2003-08. Joined Broncos in 2009.

Sam Garnes
Assistant Secondary; born July 12, 1974, Bronx, N.Y. Safety Cincinnati 1992- 96. Pro safety N.Y. Giants 1997-01, N.Y. Jets 2002-03. Pro coach: Cologne Centurions (NFL Europe) 2006, Las Vegas Locomotives (UFL) 2009, Carolina Panthers 2010, joined Broncos in 2011.

Jason George
Assistant Strength and Conditioning; born October 3, 1968, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Safety Manitoba 1991-92. No pro playing experience. College coach: Kansas 1997-98, Fordham 1998-08. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars 2009-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.
Anthony Lomando
Assistant Strength and Conditioning; born Oct. 4, 1982, Katy, Texas. No pro playing experience. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars 2010-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.

David Magazu
Offensive Line; born June 10, 1957, Taunton Mass. Defensive tackle Springfield College 1976-79. No pro playing experience. College coach: Ithaca 1980, Western Michigan 1981, Eastern Michigan 1982, Michigan 1983, Northern Illinois 1984, Ball State 1985-86, Navy 1987-89, Indiana State 1990-91, Colorado State 1992-94, Kentucky 1995-96, Memphis 1997-98, Boston College 1999-02. Pro coach: Carolina Panthers 2003-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Mike McCoy
Offensive Coordinator; born April 1, 1972, San Francisco. Quarterback Long Beach State 1990-91, Utah 1992-94. Pro quarterback Amsterdam Admirals (NFLE) 1997, Calgary Stampeders (CFL) 1999. Pro coach: Carolina Panthers 1999-08. Joined Broncos in 2009.

Ron Milus
Secondary; born November 25, 1963, Tacoma, Wash. Cornerback Washington 1982-85. College coach: Washington 1991-98, Texas A&M 1999. Pro coach: Denver Broncos 2000-02, Arizona Cardinals 2003, New York Giants 2004-05, St. Louis Rams 2006-08, Carolina Panthers 2009-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Wayne Nunnely
Defensive Line; born March 29, 1952, Los Angeles. Fullback Nevada-Las Vegas 1972-75. No pro playing experience. College coach: Nevada-Las Vegas 1976, 1982-89 (head coach 1986-89), Cal Poly-Pomona 1977-78, Cal State-Fullerton 1979, Pacific 1980-81, Southern California 1991-92, UCLA 1993-94. Pro coach: New Orleans Saints 1995-96, San Diego Chargers 1997-08. Joined the Broncos in 2009.

Luke Richesson
Strength and Conditioning; born April 29, 1974, Kansas City, Missouri. Defensive back Kansas 1992- 96. No pro playing experience. College coach: Wyoming 1998, Arizona State 1999-00. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars, 2009-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.

Jay Rodgers
Quality Control/Defense; born Aug. 29, 1976, in St. Paul, Minn. Quarterback Indiana University, Missouri State 1996-00. College coach: Ohio State 2000, LSU 2001-02, Missouri State 2004, Stephen F. Austin 2005-06, Iowa State 2007-08. Pro coach: Joined Broncos in 2009.

Jeff Rodgers
Special Teams Coordinator; linebacker, North Texas 1996-99. College coach: Arizona 2001-02, Kansas State 2008. Pro coach: San Francisco 49ers 2003-07, Carolina Panthers 2009-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Richard Smith
Linebackers; born October17, 1955, Los Angeles. Offensive lineman Rio Hondo (Calif.) J.C. 1975-76, Fresno State 1977-78. College coach: Rio Hondo (Calif.) J.C. 1979-80, Cal State-Fullerton 1981-83, California 1984-86, Arizona 1987. Pro coach: Houston Oilers 1988-92, Denver Broncos 1993-96, San Francisco 49ers 1997-02, Detroit Lions 2003-04, Miami Dolphins 2005, Houston Texans 2006-08, Carolina Panthers 2009-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Eric Studesville
Running Backs; born May 29, 1967, Madison, Wis. Defensive back Wisconsin-Whitewater 1985-88. No pro playing experience. College coach: Wingate 1994, Kent State 1995-96. Pro coach: Chicago Bears 1997-00, New York Giants 2001-03, Buffalo Bills 2004-09. Joined the Broncos in 2010.

Tyke Tolbert
Wide Receivers; Wide receiver, Louisiana State 1988-90. College coach: Louisiana State 1994 (spring), Northeast Louisiana 1994 (fall), Ohio 1995 (spring), Northeast Louisiana 1995-97, Auburn 1998, Louisiana-Lafayette 1999-01, Florida 2002. Pro coach: Arizona Cardinals 2003, Buffalo Bills 2004-09, Carolina Panthers 2010, joined Broncos in 2011.

lonestar
01-07-2013, 09:52 PM
You don't need to live here. Just be informed like the fact Bowlen and Elway had dinner together at Elways' the day McD was fired. There were clues the whole month of Dec 2010

I guess I should be up to date on who had dinner with who, but it does not make the local news just feeds us the texans and cowgirls info. If that so y'all have access to some stuff I and many other fans do not.

If that did happen the timing makes since. In fact I suspect they had conversations prior to the firings.

Thanks for the info.

lonestar
01-07-2013, 10:15 PM
True that you don't want to change coaching staffs to often. But what does it say about the situation that Mr.Bowlen was willing to make the change 3/4 through the season. Whatever the reason it was dire to the future of the team. Whether you think Spygate was a big deal or not. Or trading away a franchise QB and WR and getting nothing in return was a good thing or not. It all came down to the direction where the Broncos were going. To bad for Mcdumbass that everything was pointing down for the Broncos.

I think the spy gate did indeed do him in. Until then the local press seemed afraid of him for fear he would pull their press passes. But once that happened they really inflamed the Denver fans and caused the empty seats and pressure for Pat to fire him.
As for not getting anything for cutlet. Seems to me that at least two of the following four came from his picks. Not sure which were chicagos. Moreno, ayers, DT and Tebow. Iirc there was another couple of picks of lesser value. Because of all the gyrations he made on draft day it was hard to remember.

As for BM and that is about the best I can call that head case, spouse beater. We got two of the following again hard to keep total ack of the MIa picks ,Moore, decker, Walton, Franklin, Or Beadles.

Hardly nothing for a POS wife beater. Someone with a pn attitude not wanting to be here after he got his friend killed. He wanted out of Denver worse than we wanted to keep him.

Hope that helps your memory. And yes I remember ther we traded a number one away for a second but IIRC that turned into one of those second year players.

lonestar
01-07-2013, 10:29 PM
Doesn't it stand to reason that if Elway perceived the situation when he took over as: "the Broncos were in the worst shape ever", then surely Bowlen had to have noticed it too and concurred? As has been noted earlier in the thread, Elway was in a position to know what was really going on in discussions behind closed doors... he was "in the loop" and his words most definitely aren't an endorsement of McDaniels or an indication that he (John) believed McDaniels should have been given another season. I'm genuinely interested in seeing quotes from anyone in the Broncos' front office that could possibly be construed to suggest that there was any chance of retaining a coach who had done so much damage to the franchise in such a short time frame.

I believe Elway does, in fact know why Pat chose like he did... and Elway didn't mince any words (he's pretty much flat-out contradicting your hypothesis).

I can not provide any actual quotes as I do not live there just remember hearing on this and other forums that was the jest of it.

Does John have an inside that none of us have absolutely. I will not argue that.

Thanks for your insight.

Blueflame
01-07-2013, 10:47 PM
I can not provide any actual quotes as I do not live there just remember hearing on this and other forums that was the jest of it.

Does John have an inside that none of us have absolutely. I will not argue that.

Thanks for your insight.

Going from John's words in the article linked in the OP, it just seems to me highly doubtful that McDaniels would have been given another season no matter what.

The point is moot, however... we're in wonderful shape because of the way everything played out.

lonestar
01-07-2013, 10:56 PM
There are some pretty bright, experienced and insightful people on this forum and I thank Taco for facilitating it. You on the other hand are more interested in your localized, self absorbed perspectives which lack merit. Hmmmm, who might the bright poster choose?

You seem like a decent student of the game but your perspective is hyper-frequently antiquated with your opinion that holds no merit. The interesting thing is that you don't see that you're the void. Evaluate that and get back.

Thanks for your commentary. Unlike the other poster that choose to attack with no commentary.
As for Taco I have thanked him several times as well as suggested things to him on making this a better place to post.

Since I have been on several and have helped with the back end decision making of one as well as moderated one for over three years I think I have some coherent ideas to make this a better place for all.

Are ther some class posters here absolutely but IMO they are out numbered by lots of kiddies that learned football on madden or as FF players.

There are also some real punks that would never last at a tighter modded forum, one liner shots at other posters would not be tolerated long term on other places. If they had some thing to add to the forum that is another thing but just being rude or harrassing someone would not be. yet they are here in fact almost encouraged.

Perhaps that is the environment they are looking for so be it..

Befor dream chimes in with me being banned at a couple of forums yes that is true. One was the old mania. I got into a pm conversation with a. Mod about them going to a point system. telling them they should announce it before activating it.
They took exception to that.

I left soon after that taking a bunch of quality posters to a new forum. Which four others established where I was a mod.

After we were up and running I went back to the other forum and told everyone I was gone and the reasons for it. Which tightened the jaws of said mod and soon after I was banned for having several logins. Mostly because I had forgotten what they were when I first lent there.

The next forum after several years the direction of the forum changed and eventually got in a fight with the owner and was fired after I refused to buckle to the direction they were going.

Eventually was banned when I had belligerent posts towards the direction they were going. Was caustic in my posts and they banned me. Which frankly was no loss for me as they were IMO goingndownnhillmwith the original mission statement I was under the impression we started it for.

So yes I have been banned twice before. But think I have football knowledge that some ofthe kiddeies on here that could learn from ( btw that was a caustic comment I used a lot on the last forum) one of the reason I got banned. Ironic that on here it is used common place.

Anyway night folks this took a long time to do on my iphone. So if there are errors tough teat.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-08-2013, 07:33 AM
I think the spy gate did indeed do him in. Until then the local press seemed afraid of him for fear he would pull their press passes. But once that happened they really inflamed the Denver fans and caused the empty seats and pressure for Pat to fire him.
As for not getting anything for cutlet. Seems to me that at least two of the following four came from his picks. Not sure which were chicagos. Moreno, ayers, DT and Tebow. Iirc there was another couple of picks of lesser value. Because of all the gyrations he made on draft day it was hard to remember.

As for BM and that is about the best I can call that head case, spouse beater. We got two of the following again hard to keep total ack of the MIa picks ,Moore, decker, Walton, Franklin, Or Beadles.

Hardly nothing for a POS wife beater. Someone with a pn attitude not wanting to be here after he got his friend killed. He wanted out of Denver worse than we wanted to keep him.

Hope that helps your memory. And yes I remember ther we traded a number one away for a second but IIRC that turned into one of those second year players.

I have no problem trading away BM or JC or any other player. McDumbass problem was did he bring in players that replaced there production? IMO, he did not. Yes DT is playing great but it is with Manning throwing him the ball and he still has no probowls. By the end of BM 3rd year he was a probowl with Jay throwing him the ball.

2KBack
01-08-2013, 07:40 AM
I have no problem trading away BM or JC or any other player. McDumbass problem was did he bring in players that replaced there production? IMO, he did not. Yes DT is playing great but it is with Manning throwing him the ball and he still has no probowls. By the end of BM 3rd year he was a probowl with Jay throwing him the ball.

Poor Comparison:

Marshall's Denver pro bowl year:
104 catches 1265 yards 6TDs

Thomas this year:
94 catches 1434 yards 10TDs

Can't hold the lack of a probowl against Thomas....or McD at this point

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-08-2013, 11:15 AM
Poor Comparison:

Marshall's Denver pro bowl year:
104 catches 1265 yards 6TDs

Thomas this year:
94 catches 1434 yards 10TDs

Can't hold the lack of a probowl against Thomas....or McD at this point
The difference was not 10 catches or 200 odd yards 4 TD. There were games that BM took over the games. The Browns games is one I can think of. I have yet to see DT take over a game. Now it helps that Decker is on the other side and Manning is managing the game and not forcing throws into triple coverage.

CHEF LUIGI
12-21-2013, 11:09 AM
I honestly dont get all the champ love.
selfish has-been, jmho.
but then I met him before he ever played a game for the broncos and never looked at him with OTGs hiding reality from my opinion / perspective.
he has been the unquestioned best corner on our team...
so opposing QBs just threw the ball someplace else ! he did NOT always taske the opponents best receiver 1 on 1, the majority of the time he just lined up on his side of the field and let the opponent dictate who he would cover.
His last pro-bowl selection is about as legitimate as john lynch's selection.
sorry, I just see champ for what he is, NOT for what the zealots invision him as being.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-21-2013, 11:19 AM
I honestly dont get all the champ love.
selfish has-been, jmho.
but then I met him before he ever played a game for the broncos and never looked at him with OTGs hiding reality from my opinion / perspective.
he has been the unquestioned best corner on our team...
so opposing QBs just threw the ball someplace else ! he did NOT always taske the opponents best receiver 1 on 1, the majority of the time he just lined up on his side of the field and let the opponent dictate who he would cover.
His last pro-bowl selection is about as legitimate as john lynch's selection.
sorry, I just see champ for what he is, NOT for what the zealots invision him as being.

Do you wake up every single morning thinking of new ways to talk about champ bailey? No one gives a **** and no one here expects that much out of him.

BroncosfanGuy
12-21-2013, 11:24 AM
sorry, I just see champ for what he is

the best CB of his generation of CBs. Yeah, I see that too. and it's impressive considering just how incredibly difficult it is to play CB--a position that has become even more difficult to excel at over the past decade considering the NFL's efforts to emphasize the passing offense.

BroncoBuff
12-21-2013, 11:26 AM
Elway's correct of course. Team had just finished all-time franchise worst 12 loss season, coaching staff was scattered to the winds, team branded as cheaters (London). Couldn't have been much worse.

Elway turned the franchise on a dime ... two straight division titles, probably three in a couple weeks.

Inkana7
12-21-2013, 11:29 AM
I think it's really cool that this dude can spam every thread, even ones made 11 months ago, with the same bull**** and not get banned. This is a well moderated forum, and I enjoy the fact that a 65 year old man with an obsession for one player gets to turn every thread into the same one.

CHEF LUIGI
12-21-2013, 11:29 AM
the best CB of his generation of CBs. Yeah, I see that too. and it's impressive considering just how incredibly difficult it is to play CB--a position that has become even more difficult to excel at over the past decade considering the NFL's efforts to emphasize the passing offense.
you are of course entitles to your opinion.
and before 2008, I would have agreed with you.

broncocalijohn
12-21-2013, 11:49 AM
I think it's really cool that this dude can spam every thread, even ones made 11 months ago, with the same bull**** and not get banned. This is a well moderated forum, and I enjoy the fact that a 65 year old man with an obsession for one player gets to turn every thread into the same one.

I am sorry I linked this thread in another related thread yesterday (bargain team thread that had a few of our players). While I know his tendencies, I didn't expect Luigi to take everything good on what Elway has done for the franchise and make it about Champ Bailey. It is getting ****ing old with this asshat. A poster I have met, was nice and no issues with at the Forums (when I go there). Now, he is a typical bitter old man fighting his cause to no end to make sure everyone knows where he stands. We get it. A pathetic poster and probably either enjoys having no friends or finds excuses why others aren't as inviting as he is.

BroncoBuff
12-21-2013, 12:02 PM
I think it's really cool that this dude can spam every thread, even ones made 11 months ago, with the same bull**** and not get banned. This is a well moderated forum, and I enjoy the fact that a 65 year old man with an obsession for one player gets to turn every thread into the same one.

Indeed ... the higher ground be yours, good sir.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wgn5pDhlUkU/UBrl8-jpLHI/AAAAAAAAPZM/ShUs4aUZQSE/s1600/voltaire+quote.jpg


Let us acquire currency as we disregard trolls....

ZONA
12-21-2013, 12:19 PM
Stupid bump. That is all.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
12-21-2013, 01:40 PM
Stupid bump. That is all.

Agreed! Bump had NOTHING to do with the OP!