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broncosteven
12-31-2012, 05:40 PM
Once Bitten Twice Shy

Apparently he learned the hard way he has a lot more to learn.



Earlier on Monday, we shared a quote from Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels in which he said that he was going to keep his focus on the job he has “right now” in regard to queries about interest in head coaching vacancies.

The phrasing was such that it seemed McDaniels was being careful to note that he has responsibilities to the Patriots while making sure that potentially interested parties heard that he was also open to a change in title. According to a report from Adam Schefter of ESPN, we parsed McDaniels’ words a bit too much.

It now seems McDaniels meant that his focus will only be on the job he has right now and that he’s not going to be actively pursuing another one this offseason. Schefter reports that McDaniels has called teams looking for head coaches to tell them that he will be remaining in New England and won’t be interviewing for another shot at being the man in charge of a team even though he would like to be a head coach again one day.

More here:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/31/report-josh-mcdaniels-tells-teams-he-wont-interview/

baja
12-31-2012, 05:42 PM
Good decision

KipCorrington25
12-31-2012, 06:00 PM
What a pussy, he's realized he's nothing outside Belicheat's cocoon.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-31-2012, 06:08 PM
Right. I'm sure the rest of the league is just beating down his door.

ZONA
12-31-2012, 06:09 PM
So don't usually guys wait to be contacted by teams? Who calls teams to tell them they don't won't to be a HC right now? For real. A bit of an ego there I'd say. I don't think anybody was seriously considering him right now anyway.

Goobzilla
12-31-2012, 06:11 PM
I really wanted him to get the KC job.

baja
12-31-2012, 06:14 PM
I would like to inform everyone I will no be accepting offers to coach the running backs this season.

broncosteven
12-31-2012, 06:14 PM
So don't usually guys wait to be contacted by teams? Who calls teams to tell them they don't won't to be a HC right now? For real. A bit of an ego there I'd say. I don't think anybody was seriously considering him right now anyway.

My thought exactly

Dr. Broncenstein
12-31-2012, 06:15 PM
I really wanted him to get the KC job.

Wouldn't have been as much fun as watching him blow up the remains of the beached whale's vagina.

jutang
12-31-2012, 07:02 PM
I was really looking foward to seeing him take the Bears job.

uplink
12-31-2012, 07:07 PM
He was done in the NFL after poor performances with the broncos and rams until Belichick gave him a shot. He is not going to walk out on Belichick after one year, he needs to solidify his support base.

SoCalBronco
12-31-2012, 07:17 PM
Someday I would like to marry a supermodel who is also really sweet. Unfortunately in the last 2 years I haven been rejected by 4 women none of whom were even remotely close to supermodel quality so I'm going to take a cue from McD and announce that I'm not going to seek a supermodel at this time.

broncosteven
12-31-2012, 08:01 PM
He was done in the NFL after poor performances with the broncos and rams until Belichick gave him a shot. He is not going to walk out on Belichick after one year, he needs to solidify his support base.

Without Belly he would have been the HC of Canton High. I wonder what his brother Ben is doing now that mCd can't give him a gig?

broncosteven
12-31-2012, 08:03 PM
Someday I would like to marry a supermodel who is also really sweet. Unfortunately in the last 2 years I haven been rejected by 4 women none of whom were even remotely close to supermodel quality so I'm going to take a cue from McD and announce that I'm not going to seek a supermodel at this time.

You should call all the single ones and tell them that you won't be marrying them.

Drek
12-31-2012, 08:13 PM
Right. I'm sure the rest of the league is just beating down his door.

Most people with NFL FO connections have suggested that yes, the league was in fact lining up to go after him again.

Hell, there was a thread here like a week ago about Chicago, the team with a "franchise" QB McDaniels already butted head with once, having rumored interest. You think something like that comes out when no team is actually interested.

I'd bet that Buffalo was real interested. The multiple back running attack McDaniels used this year with Ridley/Woodhead/Vareen would be powerful with Spiller and Fred Jackson. Fitzpatrick would be a much better QB in McDaniels' offense than he's been in Gailey's as well.

San Diego is likely going to be in the hunt for someone who can get Rivers back on track and again, McDaniels has shown the ability to get QBs to play well and often with limited WR talent.

Hell, supposedly Shad Khan has already predetermined that he wants Tebow on the Jags before he has a GM or is sure his HC is sticking around, so why not get the coach who believed in Tebow enough to draft him in the first round?

There have been too many vacancies created today for a guy like McDaniels not to have suitors already at the door. It's a damn smart decision on his part to stay put though, because the ideal situation likely isn't out there for him and he can make significant maturation with Belichick, possibly sticking around a few more years and simply inheriting the Pats HC job.

Jetmeck
12-31-2012, 08:30 PM
I really wanted him to get the KC job.


I really wanted someone to break his legs.................lol

I joke....haha....I kid Little McHoodie Junior....I really love the guy !

DarkHorse30
12-31-2012, 08:37 PM
What a p***Y, he's realized he's nothing outside Belicheat's under drawers
Fixed it for you

SoCalBronco
12-31-2012, 08:39 PM
Most people with NFL FO connections have suggested that yes, the league was in fact lining up to go after him again.

Hell, there was a thread here like a week ago about Chicago, the team with a "franchise" QB McDaniels already butted head with once, having rumored interest. You think something like that comes out when no team is actually interested.

I'd bet that Buffalo was real interested. The multiple back running attack McDaniels used this year with Ridley/Woodhead/Vareen would be powerful with Spiller and Fred Jackson. Fitzpatrick would be a much better QB in McDaniels' offense than he's been in Gailey's as well.

San Diego is likely going to be in the hunt for someone who can get Rivers back on track and again, McDaniels has shown the ability to get QBs to play well and often with limited WR talent.

Hell, supposedly Shad Khan has already predetermined that he wants Tebow on the Jags before he has a GM or is sure his HC is sticking around, so why not get the coach who believed in Tebow enough to draft him in the first round?

There have been too many vacancies created today for a guy like McDaniels not to have suitors already at the door. It's a damn smart decision on his part to stay put though, because the ideal situation likely isn't out there for him and he can make significant maturation with Belichick, possibly sticking around a few more years and simply inheriting the Pats HC job.

He raped two franchises...in the ass...with a 15 inch dick with AIDS. It's been only one year since his last debacle where he got Spaz fired. He knows he is toxic. This is akin too a guy announcing he is withdrawing from consideration from a job right before they hire the other finalist so he can save face. McD is saving face...nothing more....because it would look even worse if he wasn't getting interviews when B and C list candidates were getting interviews.

Mogulseeker
12-31-2012, 08:39 PM
Right. I'm sure the rest of the league is just beating down his door.

I'm sure he'll be a good coach someday. Too bad he caught the Broncos on the front end of his learning curve.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-31-2012, 08:53 PM
I'm sure he'll be a good coach someday. Too bad he caught the Broncos on the front end of his learning curve.

The Belichick Manchurian Candidate trick never gets old. If only history could be used as a guide... the league might be able to see it coming. I'm going to lmao at the next team that decides they will attempt to clone the Patriot way with McJoshie. He should be tougher and smarterer than the last time.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-31-2012, 08:55 PM
I'll bet Chicago is on the horn with McD as we speak... begging him to come to the windy city and diffuse the mutiny they have going on right about now.

Houshyamama
12-31-2012, 09:19 PM
I'm going to call the White House and leave a message for the President, stating that while I'd like to be Secretary of State someday, I'm going to concentrate on posting on the Mane "right now".

lonestar
12-31-2012, 09:41 PM
He raped two franchises...in the ass...with a 15 inch dick with AIDS. It's been only one year since his last debacle where he got Spaz fired. He knows he is toxic. This is akin too a guy announcing he is withdrawing from consideration from a job right before they hire the other finalist so he can save face. McD is saving face...nothing more....because it would look even worse if he wasn't getting interviews when B and C list candidates were getting interviews.

Oh boy. It was not his fault Tanahana got fired nor was it his fault that the trifecta of meatheads was traded. If you'd get your head out of your ass and your bromance for them you would be wise..


As for Josh frankly there is not a team that has a spot open that I'd be interested in talking to. They are all cluster****s and have been for most of the decade all but perhaps CLE and maybe JaX have lousy owners that have been lousy since forever.

Next job I'd be looking for has a chance of success. None of them are going to be anything but 4 year plans. Maybe even more in the bears case. Their defense has been their strong point and it is OLD.

I'm also guessing that he did not call them himself that is what agents are for.

SoCalBronco
12-31-2012, 09:52 PM
It doesn't surprise me in the least that you would be a Josh supporter. Makes a ton of sense.

Broncos4Life
12-31-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm sure he'll be a good coach someday. Too bad he caught the Broncos on the front end of his learning curve.

Well....He's really smart. And like WW said... that sums it up. If the little piss ant actually knew how to talk to people he could probably be real successful.
I hope the dip **** gets another HC gig and falls flat on his ****in face again.

TomServo
12-31-2012, 10:04 PM
I'll bet Chicago is on the horn with McD as we speak... begging him to come to the windy city and diffuse the mutiny they have going on right about now.
chicago is "on the horn" with our very own OC Mike McCoy.

TomServo
12-31-2012, 10:06 PM
of all the black monday reports ive seen all day, No One is interested in the Mcdisaster. his name hasnt been mentioned as a replacement for anyone.

chanesaw
12-31-2012, 10:58 PM
Is there a team that Bill has had trouble with and wants to destroy from the inside? I think the only team Josh would interview with is the NYG.

ZONA
12-31-2012, 11:18 PM
Think I'll go to a bar this weekend and walk up to some complete stranger hot babes and tell them I'm deciding not to go out with them right now. Possibly in the future but the timing is not good right now. I need to focus on my current girl friend.


LOL

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-01-2013, 01:36 AM
Think I'll go to a bar this weekend and walk up to some complete stranger hot babes and tell them I'm deciding not to go out with them right now. Possibly in the future but the timing is not good right now. I need to focus on my current girl friend.


LOL

Actually that $h!t works sometimes. But McDumbass think that $h!t will work on NFL GM. LOL. Truth is GM's have that dumbass on tape.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tkzALAmawfY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You think GM's want that on their sidelines?

or how about this.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2pPCEXq4mgk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and this

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3vIOBUFRVkg?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

montrose
01-01-2013, 02:06 AM
I thought Cleveland might appeal to him to go home but why not stay in that cushy job in NE with Brady and all those toys? Plus, he would be a logical successor to Belichick.

Drek
01-01-2013, 04:37 AM
He raped two franchises...in the ass...with a 15 inch dick with AIDS. It's been only one year since his last debacle where he got Spaz fired. He knows he is toxic. This is akin too a guy announcing he is withdrawing from consideration from a job right before they hire the other finalist so he can save face. McD is saving face...nothing more....because it would look even worse if he wasn't getting interviews when B and C list candidates were getting interviews.

Holy **** man, you seriously even blame him for St. Louis and Spags losing his job?

I live in St. Louis, pretty much no one here feels that way. They had a lockout shortened off-season to teach a complex offense, Bradford couldn't stay healthy all season, none of their receivers could hang onto a football except Denario Alexander who couldn't stay healthy, and their OL was easily one of the worst in the entire league.

Everyone knew this, no one blamed McDaniels. Its why the new owner let him out of his contract immediately instead of at the end of the NFL season so he could go to work for the Pats.

There were already multiple sources including the ever reliable Schefter saying he was a top candidate, as he should be because the list of good offensive minds is incredibly short. Most great offenses are ran by the HC (Green Bay, New Orleans), there is a clear lack of capable offensive minds in the NFL today. I'm sure there are more than a few owners who think McDaniels minus the Cutler headache, GM powers, and with an owner who enforces a distribution of power to his coordinators/assistants would do quite well for them.

Also, you're relying on the narrative that PFT is painting here about him supposedly cold calling owners. The same site that less than two weeks ago had a story about how the Browns were interested in McDaniels and how he'd "jump at the chance" to take over the Browns. Don't you think it's much more likely that he's told his agent to notify interested parties that he's staying in NE, like most guys who have agents handle job offers?

Its amazing how quickly people look for a reason to hate the guy. At this point a flimsy rumor by someone admitting to previous editorializing in the same article is being taken as the bible to go after him when he's two years removed from this franchise.

tesnyde
01-01-2013, 05:46 AM
He realized he couldn't put the Mane down as a reference so he had no shot, therefore I have corrected the title...

HC Position won't pursue mCd

dsmoot
01-01-2013, 06:03 AM
I'll bet Chicago is on the horn with McD as we speak... begging him to come to the windy city and diffuse the mutiny they have going on right about now.

Just heard Jay Cutler gave his playbook to his dad when he heard Chicago was talking to McD. McD in Chicago will never happen but I couldn't dream up a fantasy better than this one.

peacepipe
01-01-2013, 06:40 AM
Seems that those that like McFail also happen to be tebow lovers.

Broncomutt
01-01-2013, 08:00 AM
He owns the Chargers

Haters

peacepipe
01-01-2013, 08:05 AM
http://m.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000120803/report-oregons-chip-kelly-clear-no-1-choice-for-browns/
Chip Kelly seems to the one Cleveland is/has been going for.

peacepipe
01-01-2013, 08:07 AM
San Diego is interested in Bruce Arians.

Popps
01-01-2013, 08:40 AM
I live in St. Louis, pretty much no one here feels that way. .

You're in STL? I didn't know that man. I grew up there. What part?

Yeah, I'm assuming McDaniels is hanging around until BB hangs it up. Maybe he knows something and that's sooner than we think. Who could blame him if that's his plan.

I don't care at this point. McDaniels was just another failed first time head coach. Though, I'm glad he dumped Cutler and Marshall and left us the contributors he did. Aside from that, who gives a ****? We've got one of the best coaching staffs in the league right now.

lostknight
01-01-2013, 09:16 AM
The reality of it is, that failed first time coaches typically fail because they are overwhelmed by the volume of work, and a by strategic misconceptions. McDaniels failed, pure and simple, due to personality and immaturity. Hopefully the last few years has sanded the rough edges off, but I doubt it.

As a side note, I really am not looking forward to a DEN/NE AFC championship with the wannabe napoleon on the sidelines.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-01-2013, 09:21 AM
really was hoping for the soap opera that would have come with the Bears. Wherever he goes, you can be sure that existing talent can be had for pennies on the dollar

lonestar
01-01-2013, 11:02 AM
It doesn't surprise me in the least that you would be a Josh supporter. Makes a ton of sense.

Neither supportter or detractor.

He did what needed to be done in Denver got rid of as many knuckle heads as he could, got rid of most of the oline that sucked in the redzone.

Got rid of 8 out of the 11 defensive starters none of which started for any other team the next year and most of them were no longer in the NFL in 09.

Would have gotten rid of dumb ass but that out roar would have been deafening. As he was not quite yet a Praia yet. Was dumb as a post but not quite bad enough to cut.

Unloaded all the light in the ass RBs that hung on.

He cleaned house when it needed to be done.

So was I a supporter of that absolutely. The way he handled some things no. But he did what Tanahana failed to get done formgoing on a decade cut dead wood to clear the way for the kids he drafted and brought in. More importantly the players that John the GM brought to town.

Joshes only downfall was not having a great GM for picking players. Well,second one was not staying out of the way of his DC and allowing him to do his job. But at least he was smart enough initially to hire a DC that was not a yes man.

I'd rather be known for supporting the plan Josh had when he came to town than being known as a tanahan suck up.

RedskinBronco
01-01-2013, 11:04 AM
He might regret it later on.

Eagles and Bears are pretty damn good markets to go to as a HC. The owners will generally spend and have intentions to win.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 11:10 AM
Holy **** man, you seriously even blame him for St. Louis and Spags losing his job?

I live in St. Louis, pretty much no one here feels that way. They had a lockout shortened off-season to teach a complex offense, Bradford couldn't stay healthy all season, none of their receivers could hang onto a football except Denario Alexander who couldn't stay healthy, and their OL was easily one of the worst in the entire league.

Everyone knew this, no one blamed McDaniels. Its why the new owner let him out of his contract immediately instead of at the end of the NFL season so he could go to work for the Pats.

There were already multiple sources including the ever reliable Schefter saying he was a top candidate, as he should be because the list of good offensive minds is incredibly short. Most great offenses are ran by the HC (Green Bay, New Orleans), there is a clear lack of capable offensive minds in the NFL today. I'm sure there are more than a few owners who think McDaniels minus the Cutler headache, GM powers, and with an owner who enforces a distribution of power to his coordinators/assistants would do quite well for them.

Also, you're relying on the narrative that PFT is painting here about him supposedly cold calling owners. The same site that less than two weeks ago had a story about how the Browns were interested in McDaniels and how he'd "jump at the chance" to take over the Browns. Don't you think it's much more likely that he's told his agent to notify interested parties that he's staying in NE, like most guys who have agents handle job offers?

Its amazing how quickly people look for a reason to hate the guy. At this point a flimsy rumor by someone admitting to previous editorializing in the same article is being taken as the bible to go after him when he's two years removed from this franchise.

Got to remember the poster was humping Tanahana leg for years and cutlet could do no wrong. So yes he is a tad biased in his views of Josh.

The bromance was heavy for the former.

broncosteven
01-01-2013, 12:31 PM
Neither supportter or detractor.

He did what needed to be done in Denver got rid of as many knuckle heads as he could, got rid of most of the oline that sucked in the redzone.

Got rid of 8 out of the 11 defensive starters none of which started for any other team the next year and most of them were no longer in the NFL in 09.

Would have gotten rid of dumb ass but that out roar would have been deafening. As he was not quite yet a Praia yet. Was dumb as a post but not quite bad enough to cut.

Unloaded all the light in the ass RBs that hung on.

He cleaned house when it needed to be done.

So was I a supporter of that absolutely. The way he handled some things no. But he did what Tanahana failed to get done formgoing on a decade cut dead wood to clear the way for the kids he drafted and brought in. More importantly the players that John the GM brought to town.

Joshes only downfall was not having a great GM for picking players. Well,second one was not staying out of the way of his DC and allowing him to do his job. But at least he was smart enough initially to hire a DC that was not a yes man.

I'd rather be known for supporting the plan Josh had when he came to town than being known as a tanahan suck up.

I think you need to count the guys mCd either drafted or brought in that haven't found jobs since. Shanny might have him beat but it is closer than you might think.

Facts are every new coach evaluates talent and bring in guys to run their systems.

broncosteven
01-01-2013, 12:40 PM
I thought Cleveland might appeal to him to go home but why not stay in that cushy job in NE with Brady and all those toys? Plus, he would be a logical successor to Belichick.

Maybe he is waiting for the Canton High job to open.

Drek
01-01-2013, 12:41 PM
You're in STL? I didn't know that man. I grew up there. What part?

Yeah, I'm assuming McDaniels is hanging around until BB hangs it up. Maybe he knows something and that's sooner than we think. Who could blame him if that's his plan.

I don't care at this point. McDaniels was just another failed first time head coach. Though, I'm glad he dumped Cutler and Marshall and left us the contributors he did. Aside from that, who gives a ****? We've got one of the best coaching staffs in the league right now.

Currently one of the DINKS (double income no kids) who're bringing Tower Grove back as a nice place to live, was in south county (Mehlville) for a few years before that, and even before that I lived in Red Bud, IL for a couple years as well.

Belichick won't be around forever and that will be a cush job to back into, so for McDaniels to leave he'll need to be the top choice around the league and not just another candidate otherwise he'd do way better to just sit and wait for Belichick to leave.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 12:54 PM
I think you need to count the guys mCd either drafted or brought in that haven't found jobs since. Shanny might have him beat but it is closer than you might think.

Facts are every new coach evaluates talent and bring in guys to run their systems.


RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 22 Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech
1 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida
2 45 Zane Beadles G Utah
3 80 J.D. Walton C Baylor
3 87 Eric Decker WR Minnesota
5 137 Perrish Cox CB Oklahoma State
6 183 Eric Olsen G Notre Dame
7 225 Syd'Quan Thompson DB California
7 232 Jammie Kirlew DE Indiana
2009 - DENVER BRONCOS
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
1 18 Robert Ayers LB Tennessee
2 37 Alphonso Smith DB Wake Forest
2 48 Darcel McBath DB Texas Tech
2 64 Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
4 114 David Bruton DB Notre Dame
4 132 Seth Olsen G Iowa
5 141 Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
6 174 Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
7 225 Blake Schlueter C Texas Christian


I'll take that over Tanahanas piss poor record of 6 out of 41 round 1-3 guys resigned during his regime.

Drek
01-01-2013, 01:06 PM
I think you need to count the guys mCd either drafted or brought in that haven't found jobs since. Shanny might have him beat but it is closer than you might think.

Facts are every new coach evaluates talent and bring in guys to run their systems.

We have A LOT of McDaniels guys as core components of this team, especially for a guy who was only here for less than two full seasons.

Thomas, Decker, Beadles, Walton (pre-injury), and Moreno on offense are all heavy contributors.

Ayers, Vickerson, Bannan (brought in by McD, released by Elway, then brought back again) are all key contributors to the DL.

Colquitt is a McD acquisition, and Prater was on the verge of washing out until McDaniels brought in a new ST coach to get him squared away.

McDaniels' problem wasn't player acquisition, enough of his guys are still around to prove that. His problem wasn't coaching hires, enough of his staff are around to prove that. And the problem clearly wasn't his FO staff as we've generally just been promoting those guys since he's left. He had no ability to be "the guy" and that is why he failed here. He couldn't delegate authority and he clearly had trust issues. End result he couldn't be a leader of men.

Funny thing is that both Belichick and Shanahan had similar ego driven issues attached to them in their previous jobs. The "doesn't play well with others" label and all that. That is a frequent reason for HC failure of course and most never fix it, but whether McDaniels does or doesn't is no longer something for us Broncos fans to worry about.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-01-2013, 01:07 PM
You're in STL? I didn't know that man. I grew up there. What part?

Yeah, I'm assuming McDaniels is hanging around until BB hangs it up. Maybe he knows something and that's sooner than we think. Who could blame him if that's his plan.

I don't care at this point. McDaniels was just another failed first time head coach. Though, I'm glad he dumped Cutler and Marshall and left us the contributors he did. Aside from that, who gives a ****? We've got one of the best coaching staffs in the league right now.

For what. What did we get in return.

SoCalBronco
01-01-2013, 01:07 PM
Neither supportter or detractor.

He did what needed to be done in Denver got rid of as many knuckle heads as he could, got rid of most of the oline that sucked in the redzone.

Got rid of 8 out of the 11 defensive starters none of which started for any other team the next year and most of them were no longer in the NFL in 09.

Would have gotten rid of dumb ass but that out roar would have been deafening. As he was not quite yet a Praia yet. Was dumb as a post but not quite bad enough to cut.

Unloaded all the light in the ass RBs that hung on.

He cleaned house when it needed to be done.

So was I a supporter of that absolutely. The way he handled some things no. But he did what Tanahana failed to get done formgoing on a decade cut dead wood to clear the way for the kids he drafted and brought in. More importantly the players that John the GM brought to town.

Joshes only downfall was not having a great GM for picking players. Well,second one was not staying out of the way of his DC and allowing him to do his job. But at least he was smart enough initially to hire a DC that was not a yes man.

I'd rather be known for supporting the plan Josh had when he came to town than being known as a tanahan suck up.

Lol...you have an aversion to facts. Josh actually said DJ was one of the best LBs in the league and praised him for like 3 mins straight once. But he would have gotten rid of him..right?

broncosteven
01-01-2013, 01:13 PM
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 22 Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech
1 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida
2 45 Zane Beadles G Utah
3 80 J.D. Walton C Baylor
3 87 Eric Decker WR Minnesota
5 137 Perrish Cox CB Oklahoma State
6 183 Eric Olsen G Notre Dame
7 225 Syd'Quan Thompson DB California
7 232 Jammie Kirlew DE Indiana
2009 - DENVER BRONCOS
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
1 18 Robert Ayers LB Tennessee
2 37 Alphonso Smith DB Wake Forest
2 48 Darcel McBath DB Texas Tech
2 64 Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
4 114 David Bruton DB Notre Dame
4 132 Seth Olsen G Iowa
5 141 Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
6 174 Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
7 225 Blake Schlueter C Texas Christian


I'll take that over Tanahanas piss poor record of 6 out of 41 round 1-3 guys resigned during his regime.

When a coach moves up to draft a guy then trades him after one year he is making mistakes. Shanny had a larger sample size, 14 years to mCd's 18 months.

DBroncos4life
01-01-2013, 01:13 PM
McD sucked. Manning made pretty much all of McD's draft picks into players NONE of the offensive players McD drafted would have developed with McD.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-01-2013, 01:36 PM
McD sucked. Manning made pretty much all of McD's draft picks into players NONE of the offensive players McD drafted would have developed with McD.

Thank You!

lonestar
01-01-2013, 01:49 PM
For what. What did we get in return.

IMO and a great many folks throughout the NFL just getting rid of the moron was enough.

He is a coach killer with his attitude of my gun is better than anyone else's Incan force my passes into tighter spots and all is good. The moke has a 100 TDs but has funbled and been intercepted IIRC 150 + times.

He has the physical atributes to be one of the greatest QBs. Burke him it is the mental issues that kill him.

We got draft choices for him. And that was a plus. We got draft choices for the other two morons Tanahana wasted draft choices on.

What we got from them frankly I do not care. I moved past worrying about it. Clearly you have not.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Lol...you have an aversion to facts. Josh actually said DJ was one of the best LBs in the league and praised him for like 3 mins straight once. But he would have gotten rid of him..right?

I did not say anything if the sort. RIF. I said he should have gotten rid of him while he was cleaning house. If you read anything besides that sorry.

I'm strictly on iPhone posting since I'm out if town actually in Colorado for the first rounds of playoffs. Could have planned that better.

Action
01-01-2013, 02:04 PM
It's funny how we have people on here who support Cutler to the fullest yet he completely ****ted on the city of Denver. Yall are 6s just remember that.

Oh yeah... And McDaniels is a top coach in the league everyone knows that. That's why you people and the league are still talking today.

broncosteven
01-01-2013, 02:15 PM
IMO and a great many folks throughout the NFL just getting rid of the moron was enough.

He is a coach killer with his attitude of my gun is better than anyone else's Incan force my passes into tighter spots and all is good. The moke has a 100 TDs but has funbled and been intercepted IIRC 150 + times.

He has the physical atributes to be one of the greatest QBs. Burke him it is the mental issues that kill him.

We got draft choices for him. And that was a plus. We got draft choices for the other two morons Tanahana wasted draft choices on.

What we got from them frankly I do not care. I moved past worrying about it. Clearly you have not.

We got draft picks for Cutler and they threw in Orton, sadly mCd wasted those picks, wasted the Tebow pick, blew the Smith pick and didn't he even move up to get Quinn?

The kid was totally unprepared for a HC gig and still is to this day.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-01-2013, 02:40 PM
IMO and a great many folks throughout the NFL just getting rid of the moron was enough.

He is a coach killer with his attitude of my gun is better than anyone else's Incan force my passes into tighter spots and all is good. The moke has a 100 TDs but has funbled and been intercepted IIRC 150 + times.

He has the physical atributes to be one of the greatest QBs. Burke him it is the mental issues that kill him.

We got draft choices for him. And that was a plus. We got draft choices for the other two morons Tanahana wasted draft choices on.

What we got from them frankly I do not care. I moved past worrying about it. Clearly you have not.

Cut the BS. If you want a debate lets debate. Guess what. I can move on and hold a grudge at the same time. I haven't got a problem getting rid of Cutler
My point was what did he bring in to replace him. Did Mcdumbass bring in a 4000 yard passer. No. Did McDumbass bring in a probowl WR. No. I care about the Broncos. Period. If the HC want finding in his guys. I'm fine with that. But you better bring in guys that help the team. Period. Fact is nobody the Mcdumbass brought in help us win when he was here. As far as DT, Decker, Moreano and Aryes are concerned they still got a lot approving to do before I can consider them good liters for us.
Edit- Red

peacepipe
01-01-2013, 02:47 PM
DT is a pro-bowl quality WR. He should've been in the pro-bowl this yr.

yerner
01-01-2013, 03:07 PM
It's funny how we have people on here who support Cutler to the fullest yet he completely ****ted on the city of Denver. Yall are 6s just remember that.

Oh yeah... And McDaniels is a top coach in the league everyone knows that. That's why you people and the league are still talking today.


Grow up, **** stick.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 03:18 PM
McD treated Champ like a piece of trash. No doubt he would've let Champ walk.

Who cares if people are still talking about him. You do realize amazing suckage gets just as much attention as greatness?

lonestar
01-01-2013, 04:02 PM
We have A LOT of McDaniels guys as core components of this team, especially for a guy who was only here for less than two full seasons.

Thomas, Decker, Beadles, Walton (pre-injury), and Moreno on offense are all heavy contributors.

Ayers, Vickerson, Bannan (brought in by McD, released by Elway, then brought back again) are all key contributors to the DL.

Colquitt is a McD acquisition, and Prater was on the verge of washing out until McDaniels brought in a new ST coach to get him squared away.

McDaniels' problem wasn't player acquisition, enough of his guys are still around to prove that. His problem wasn't coaching hires, enough of his staff are around to prove that. And the problem clearly wasn't his FO staff as we've generally just been promoting those guys since he's left. He had no ability to be "the guy" and that is why he failed here. He couldn't delegate authority and he clearly had trust issues. End result he couldn't be a leader of men.

Funny thing is that both Belichick and Shanahan had similar ego driven issues attached to them in their previous jobs. The "doesn't play well with others" label and all that. That is a frequent reason for HC failure of course and most never fix it, but whether McDaniels does or doesn't is no longer something for us Broncos fans to worry about.

:thumbs:

lonestar
01-01-2013, 04:34 PM
When a coach moves up to draft a guy then trades him after one year he is making mistakes. Shanny had a larger sample size, 14 years to mCd's 18 months.

Mistakes were made no doubt but nothing like Tanahanas shooting snake eyes in the crap shoot called the nfl.

Well documented 6 of 41 round 1-3 players resigned during is tenure in Denver. Of them only DJ was drafted after 2000. Personally IMO dj should not have been given the superstar contract he was.

Josh based most of his decisions off of Tanahans scouting reports or since he fired all of them a few weeks before the draft had to scramble to do a draft board based on what he could come up with NO ONE knows for sure..
But I know I would not have based all my decisions based on a scouting department that was looking for Mikey's type of guys vs what I needed.

Drafting mikey type players does nothing to change the complexion of the team just more of the same.

Of the players he did draft other than Tebow all of his #1s from year one will be resigned (as it looks today) and all of the 1-3 in the second year will be with the team..
As it stand s now those 18 months will yield as many players long term as tahananaS 14 years will.

broncocalijohn
01-01-2013, 04:37 PM
Lonestar: A McDaniels fan for only the reason he replaced Shanahan.

Hitch on that loser ride Lonestar. It does you well.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 04:40 PM
McD sucked. Manning made pretty much all of McD's draft picks into players NONE of the offensive players McD drafted would have developed with McD.

Wow are you drinking tonight.

Sad that you might actually beleive that.

That manning is the only reason.

Beadles Walton decker and Thomas would be trash without manning.

You are pathetic.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 04:48 PM
Lonestar: A McDaniels fan for only the reason he replaced Shanahan.

Hitch on that loser ride Lonestar. It does you well.

I'd be a fan of any coach that replaced that loser.


Let me qualify that AGAIN. liked what he did with HOF players when they left he was average at best. Wn a lot of meaningless games but when it counted he lost games. The last three years could have been in the playoffs with one winning game more each year but they fizzled. In the playoffs except for ONE count it one game in the playoffs all ass kickings. Let me repeat that so it sinks in

ONE PLAYOFF GAME WITHOUT HOF PLAYERS.

Why y'all did not get that is beyond me.

I loved what Josh did to change the team as it needed it.

Dinner bell just rang out here on the ranch.. Later.

oubronco
01-01-2013, 04:56 PM
Let me get this straight Lonestar loves McDipshyt the worst thing to ever happen to the Broncos and Hates Shanahan who was the best thing to ever happen to the Broncos besides Elway.........Brilliant

broncocalijohn
01-01-2013, 04:59 PM
I'd be a fan of any coach that replaced that loser.


Let me qualify that AGAIN. liked what he did with HOF players when they left he was average at best. Wn a lot of meaningless games but when it counted he lost games. The last three years could have been in the playoffs with one winning game more each year but they fizzled. In the playoffs except for ONE count it one game in the playoffs all ass kickings. Let me repeat that so it sinks in

ONE PLAYOFF GAME WITHOUT HOF PLAYERS.

Why y'all did not get that is beyond me.

I loved what Josh did to change the team as it needed it.

Dinner bell just rang out here on the ranch.. Later.


There are many here that agree he wasn't very good the last 3 years. Those same "many" think McDaniels ended up being a horrible coach for us in less than 2 years.

broncosteven
01-01-2013, 04:59 PM
Mistakes were made no doubt but nothing like Tanahanas shooting snake eyes in the crap shoot called the nfl.
...

I figured an old guy like you would remember the back to back SB titles Shanny brought us.

If he had a decent QB in 2005 he would have 3 SB wins.

I don't get your blind hate for a 2 time SB winner and an eventual HOF HC yet you love one of the worst HC's of all time.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 05:01 PM
I loved what Josh did to change the team as it needed

And that was turning a mediocre team into the worst team in football. Breaking franchise records for sucking along the way

lonestar
01-01-2013, 05:30 PM
McD treated Champ like a piece of trash. No doubt he would've let Champ walk.

Who cares if people are still talking about him. You do realize amazing suckage gets just as much attention as greatness?

I've never heard anything like that. Sounds like sour grapes to me. You have a link to that tripe.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 05:44 PM
I figured an old guy like you would remember the back to back SB titles Shanny brought us.

If he had a decent QB in 2005 he would have 3 SB wins.

I don't get your blind hate for a 2 time SB winner and an eventual HOF HC yet you love one of the worst HC's of all time.

RIF. I have never dissed him as a super bowl winner. Fnd a post that I have not praised him for those wins.

My compliant about him is being a mediocre at best coach after losing his HOF players. He had the chance to replace them but he brought in such notables as foster, delta, ashley, pierce.. Please remember that mikey never brought any of those HOF guys they were already here when he came to town.

Read my posts he has my respect early as a coach it is his last decade in Denver that was a disgrace.

6 players out of 41 round 1-3 players resigned to play in DEN.
Those are the guys that every good teams build their franchise on.

SIX PLAYERS IN 14 YEARS. THAT IS A DISGRACE and it is all HIS FAULT AS HE WAS IN TOTAL CHARGE.

No one else to blame but mikey.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 05:47 PM
And that was turning a mediocre team into the worst team in football. Breaking franchise records for sucking along the way

Again talking crap we have never drafted first. Making mole hills into rocky mountains.

He was not even the head coach all that last year. So you have no idea if they would not have win more games. Do you?

I get it your bromance with mikey is showing.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 05:49 PM
Let me get this straight Lonestar loves McDipshyt the worst thing to ever happen to the Broncos and Hates Shanahan who was the best thing to ever happen to the Broncos besides Elway.........Brilliant

Really disappointed to see this post as you have been a responsible educated poster.

Read my posts RIF.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Again talking crap we have never drafted first. Making mole hills into rocky mountains.

He was not even the head coach all that last year. So you have no idea if they would not have win more games. Do you?

I get it your bromance with mikey is showing.

Huh? Go check the run from the game after the 6-0 start, to his last game coached. It was the WORST record of any team in the league. A historically bad run. It's like through 20 games. No other team posted a worse record over that time.


Pretty funny I call Shanny mediocre and you assume I'm in love with him. I guess mediocre is the ceiling for you when you're in love with McD

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 06:00 PM
I've never heard anything like that. Sounds like sour grapes to me. You have a link to that tripe.

Obviously you weren't paying attention. Champ was in talks, then they abruptly told him no discussions. Left him hanging through that season in october. He even said he was ready to move on and there's plenty of evidence on this that he was upset. Don't be lazy you can google.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 06:23 PM
Obviously you weren't paying attention. Champ was in talks, then they abruptly told him no discussions. Left him hanging through that season in october. He even said he was ready to move on and there's plenty of evidence on this that he was upset. Don't be lazy you can google.

I'm not the one making allegations.

Sounds like your taking something out if context or someone reporting it was.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 06:30 PM
Huh? Go check the run from the game after the 6-0 start, to his last game coached. It was the WORST record of any team in the league. A historically bad run. It's like through 20 games. No other team posted a worse record over that time.


Pretty funny I call Shanny mediocre and you assume I'm in love with him. I guess mediocre is the ceiling for you when you're in love with McD

Yes we lost games but iirc he was not the coach of record for all those games in his last year.

And that was the one that got the #2 draft choice. Not the previous year.


As for your commentary about mikey being mediocre frankly did not remember seeing it. Not a t home and only on my iPhone so some of the words are small.

. If you did congrats to you as you are smarter and braver on this forum than most.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 06:30 PM
I'm not the one making allegations.

Sounds like your taking something out if context or someone reporting it was.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16279530

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/06/agent-pro-bowl-cb-champ-bailey-disappointed-with-lack-of-contract-talk-from-denver-broncos/1

http://footballpros.com/content.php/719-Champ-Bailey-to-place-home-up-for-sale-desires-better-deal-from-Broncos


I can keep going

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 06:34 PM
Yes we lost games but iirc he was not the coach of record for all those games in his last year.

And that was the one that got the #2 draft choice. Not the previous year.


As for your commentary about mikey being mediocre frankly did not remember seeing it. Not a t home and only on my iPhone so some of the words are small.

. If you did congrats to you as you are smarter and braver on this forum than most.

Not the coach of record for those games? He was the head coach until the last 3 games of that season, so I wasn't counting those. Think they went 1-2. Count the games after the 6-0 start and it was the worst in the league.

Anyways ya I'm no shanny lover, toward the end of his run and some of his personnel moves, but I do respect what he's done. He was in his prime during those runs. Believing in Terrell Davis when others didnt was pretty dam sweet.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 06:40 PM
Not the coach of record for those games? He was the head coach until the last 3 games of that season, so I wasn't counting those. Think they went 1-2. Count the games after the 6-0 start and it was the worst in the league.

Anyways ya I'm no shanny lover, toward the end of his run and some of his personnel moves, but I do respect what he's done. He was in his prime during those runs. Believing in Terrell Davis when others didnt was pretty dam sweet.

So we can agree that.

As for mikey great OC in the early games but late in the seasons especially in the playoffs we were overmatched player wise as well as coaching. And his defenses sucked

We faded every year. Instaed of getting better like we are. Now.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 06:43 PM
So we can agree that.

As for mikey great OC in the early games but late in the seasons especially in the playoffs we were overmatched player wise as well as coaching. And his defenses sucked

We faded every year. Instaed of getting better like we are. Now.

Ya the end of seasons were not kind. Seemed always 8-5 ended in 8-8. But in McDs full season you can also say we faded big time. 6-0 to 8-8 is a fade

lonestar
01-01-2013, 06:51 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16279530

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/06/agent-pro-bowl-cb-champ-bailey-disappointed-with-lack-of-contract-talk-from-denver-broncos/1

http://footballpros.com/content.php/719-Champ-Bailey-to-place-home-up-for-sale-desires-better-deal-from-Broncos


I can keep going


Hardly treating him like trash. IMO



McD treated Champ like a piece of trash. No doubt he would've let Champ walk.



That was my point.

It was only business. Nothing treating like trash. They had an offer that was not acceoted and then it was pulled.

DBroncos4life
01-01-2013, 07:17 PM
4 pages for a scrub coach saying no to coaching jobs that no team was going to offer him in the first place. LOL

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 07:22 PM
Hardly treating him like trash. IMO



That was my point.

It was only business. Nothing treating like trash. They had an offer that was not acceoted and then it was pulled.

I don't know. Opening contract talks themselves then abruptly stopping all talks soon after is bush league. Why even start the talks in the first place? Seems like he was hung out to dry.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 07:26 PM
4 pages for a scrub coach saying no to coaching jobs that no team was going to offer him in the first place. LOL

The funny thing about it is he called teams that were going to look for HCs, telling them he's not available? These are teams that didnt even express ANY interest. Lol the arrogance is still there.

McD:"Uh, is this the chiefs front office? I'm just calling to say you can't hire me."

FO:"uh, who is this? Ok. You weren't on our list anyway"

Dr. Broncenstein
01-01-2013, 07:28 PM
4 pages for a scrub coach saying no to coaching jobs that no team was going to offer him in the first place. LOL

The Chicago rumors were legit. Windowless van with a spray-painted "free candy" sign legit.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 07:28 PM
I don't know. Opening contract talks themselves then abruptly stopping all talks soon after is bush league. Why even start the talks in the first place? Seems like he was hung out to dry.

Seems to me that John did that to Clady this year.

Is he bush?

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 07:33 PM
Seems to me that John did that to Clady this year.

Is he bush?

Not the same thing. Clady called off the contract talks.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8216416/ryan-clady-denver-broncos-end-contract-extension-talks

lonestar
01-01-2013, 08:14 PM
Not the same thing. Clady called off the contract talks.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8216416/ryan-clady-denver-broncos-end-contract-extension-talks

Why? Because he felt that he was being treated poorly money wise.
Pray tell the difference.

Maybe John felt like he was how did you put it

Being treated like a piece of trash.


Same difference

How about we agree to disagree.

broncocalijohn
01-01-2013, 08:16 PM
RIF. I have never dissed him as a super bowl winner. Fnd a post that I have not praised him for those wins.

My compliant about him is being a mediocre at best coach after losing his HOF players. He had the chance to replace them but he brought in such notables as foster, delta, ashley, pierce.. Please remember that mikey never brought any of those HOF guys they were already here when he came to town.

Read my posts he has my respect early as a coach it is his last decade in Denver that was a disgrace.

6 players out of 41 round 1-3 players resigned to play in DEN.
Those are the guys that every good teams build their franchise on.

SIX PLAYERS IN 14 YEARS. THAT IS A DISGRACE and it is all HIS FAULT AS HE WAS IN TOTAL CHARGE.

No one else to blame but mikey.

You gave the credit of those SB wins to TD and Kubiak. I am far from an apologist for Shanny but I see so much hatred for the guy. You don't even know it when you do it.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 08:27 PM
Why? Because he felt that he was being treated poorly money wise.
Pray tell the difference.

Maybe John felt like he was how did you put it


Same difference

How about we agree to disagree.


Champ didnt end the contract talks. Champ didnt even initiate the talks. McD and Xander's initiated talks then pulled the rug from under him. With clady the FO didnt do that. Clady decided to end the talks.

One way is bush league, the other way is more tolerated.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-01-2013, 08:29 PM
You gave the credit of those SB wins to TD and Kubiak. I am far from an apologist for Shanny but I see so much hatred for the guy. You don't even know it when you do it.



Bottom line there would've been NO Terrell Davis without Shanahan. So if he's giving credit to Davis......

Bacchus
01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Once Bitten Twice Shy

Apparently he learned the hard way he has a lot more to learn.



Earlier on Monday, we shared a quote from Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels in which he said that he was going to keep his focus on the job he has “right now” in regard to queries about interest in head coaching vacancies.

The phrasing was such that it seemed McDaniels was being careful to note that he has responsibilities to the Patriots while making sure that potentially interested parties heard that he was also open to a change in title. According to a report from Adam Schefter of ESPN, we parsed McDaniels’ words a bit too much.

It now seems McDaniels meant that his focus will only be on the job he has right now and that he’s not going to be actively pursuing another one this offseason. Schefter reports that McDaniels has called teams looking for head coaches to tell them that he will be remaining in New England and won’t be interviewing for another shot at being the man in charge of a team even though he would like to be a head coach again one day.

More here:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/31/report-josh-mcdaniels-tells-teams-he-wont-interview/

In unrelated news No teams expressed interest in hiring this dilweed.

Bacchus
01-01-2013, 08:35 PM
Hardly treating him like trash. IMO



That was my point.

It was only business. Nothing treating like trash. They had an offer that was not acceoted and then it was pulled.

HAHA so you hate Shanahan and love McD.... I got you all figured out now.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-01-2013, 09:06 PM
In unrelated news No teams expressed interest in hiring this dilweed.

Bingo!

Missouribronc
01-01-2013, 09:33 PM
RIF. I have never dissed him as a super bowl winner. Fnd a post that I have not praised him for those wins.

My compliant about him is being a mediocre at best coach after losing his HOF players. He had the chance to replace them but he brought in such notables as foster, delta, ashley, pierce.. Please remember that mikey never brought any of those HOF guys they were already here when he came to town.

Read my posts he has my respect early as a coach it is his last decade in Denver that was a disgrace.

6 players out of 41 round 1-3 players resigned to play in DEN.
Those are the guys that every good teams build their franchise on.

SIX PLAYERS IN 14 YEARS. THAT IS A DISGRACE and it is all HIS FAULT AS HE WAS IN TOTAL CHARGE.

No one else to blame but mikey.

That's bull****, first of all.

And have you EVER compared it to other teams to see where Denver stands in comparison to the rest of the league?

For years I've read this crap, and not once have you ever compared it to other teams or come up with league averages to justify these ridiculously stupid arguments.

lonestar
01-01-2013, 09:40 PM
Champ didnt end the contract talks. Champ didnt even initiate the talks. McD and Xander's initiated talks then pulled the rug from under him. With clady the FO didnt do that. Clady decided to end the talks.

One way is bush league, the other way is more tolerated.

If you say so. :thumbs:

lonestar
01-01-2013, 09:48 PM
That's bull****, first of all.

And have you EVER compared it to other teams to see where Denver stands in comparison to the rest of the league?

For years I've read this crap, and not once have you ever compared it to other teams or come up with league averages to justify these ridiculously stupid arguments.

Show me a real team that had a 13% retention rate of their top round guys 1-3.

I doubt seriously that you can. I'm not going to do it because I know that NE, PIT, Bal the big three in the afc are better. I do not have to research that and frankly I could care less about KC, , CLE, CIN, or San.

If you think they are prove me wrong. I'm not wasting my time.

I sat down last night going over the draft choices after our busts in the top three rounds to prove point to my die hard bronco brother. He was astounded at the talent we passed on to pick up a ss clowns that for the most part never made it out of their third TC.

But Here is a snippet.


17 Denver Broncos D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
18 New Orleans Saints Will Smith DE Ohio State
19 Miami Dolphins Vernon Carey T Miami (Fla.)
20 Minnesota Vikings Kenechi Udeze DE USC
21 New England Patriots Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
24 St. Louis Rams Steven Jackson RB Oregon State

54 Denver Broncos Darius Watts WR Marshall
55 Jacksonville Jaguars Greg Jones RB Florida State
56 Cincinnati Bengals Madieu Williams FS Maryland
57 Tennessee Titans Antwan Odom DE Alabama
58 San Francisco 49ers Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh
59 Cleveland Browns Sean Jones SAF Georgia

85 Denver Broncos Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
86 Jacksonville Jaguars Jorge Cordova LB Nevada-Reno
87 Green Bay Packers B.J. Sander P Ohio State
88 Minnesota Vikings Darrion Scott DE Ohio State
89 Philadelphia Eagles Matt Ware DB UCLA
90 Atlanta Falcons Matt Schaub QB Virginia



Food for thought every year is like that . Or worse. But for you die hard tanahan lovers you will turn a blind eye on it.

I know what I know..
If the guy would have hired a bonafide GM to make the choices instead of thinking he can make them better players because he will now coach them.

The guy hand cuffed himself to a piss poor judge of talent and loser DCs. He/we Could have had a half dozen more rings had his ego not gotten in the way.

broncosteven
01-01-2013, 10:06 PM
[QUOTE=lonestar;3768835]RIF. I have never dissed him as a super bowl winner. Fnd a post that I have not praised him for those wins.

My compliant about him is being a mediocre at best coach after losing his HOF players. He had the chance to replace them but he brought in such notables as foster, delta, ashley, pierce.. Please remember that mikey never brought any of those HOF guys they were already here when he came to town.

Read my posts he has my respect early as a coach it is his last decade in Denver that was a disgrace. Glen Cadrez,

6 players out of 41 round 1-3 players resigned to play in DEN.
Those are the guys that every good teams build their franchise on.

SIX PLAYERS IN 14 YEARS. THAT IS A DISGRACE and it is all HIS FAULT AS HE WAS IN TOTAL CHARGE.

He brought in guys like:
TD, Tod kitchen, Aaron Craver followed by Howard Griffith, Eddie Mac, Rod Smith, Chamberlain, Lionel Washington, Michael Dean Perry (bum!), Britt Hager, James Jones, Eric THomas, dante Jones, Tim Hauck, Mike Lodish, dave Garnett, Ralph Tamm, Von Hebron, Jeff Lewis, Mike Scharad, Romo, Alfred Williams, John Mobley, Tory James, Maa Haa Tanauvasa, Randy HIllyard.Jumpy Geathers, Schlareth, Brister, von Hebron, Derek Lovel, detron SMith, William Green, Patrick Jeffers, Anthony Lynn, tim mCkyre, Brian Griese, Darren Gordon,
Trevor Pryce, Neil Smith, Eric Brown, Keith Traylor, etc... from 95-1998. would have loved it if mCd hit on 2 % of those.

steeledude
01-02-2013, 12:05 AM
Obviously you weren't paying attention. Champ was in talks, then they abruptly told him no discussions. Left him hanging through that season in october. He even said he was ready to move on and there's plenty of evidence on this that he was upset. Don't be lazy you can google.

Not only that, he put a contract on the table for Champ which was seriously a slap in the face, and Champ accepted it! Then McD pulled it and said never mind. What was up with his friggin' mind games? Champ was one of his biggest defenders before that.

The guy (mcd) was just a phenomenal failure.

spiralism
01-02-2013, 05:10 AM
This just in, I'm announcing that I will not be pursuing Mila Kunis for a date this year.

fontaine
01-02-2013, 06:42 AM
We have A LOT of McDaniels guys as core components of this team, especially for a guy who was only here for less than two full seasons.

Thomas, Decker, Beadles, Walton (pre-injury), and Moreno on offense are all heavy contributors.

Ayers, Vickerson, Bannan (brought in by McD, released by Elway, then brought back again) are all key contributors to the DL.

Colquitt is a McD acquisition, and Prater was on the verge of washing out until McDaniels brought in a new ST coach to get him squared away.

McDaniels' problem wasn't player acquisition, enough of his guys are still around to prove that.

Yes, with 8, yes EIGHT picks in the first two rounds in two drafts, even a blind fist pumping monkey could hit on a few players.

McDaniels problem wasn't player acquisition? I guess the rest of the league just hasn't caught up with the greatness that is:

Tim Tebow
Perrish Cox
Eric Olsen
Syd'Quan Thompson
Alphonso Smith
Darcel McBath
Richard Quinn
Seth Olsen

Not to mention players he brought in like:
Lawrence Maroney
Jarvis Green
Kyle Orton
Brady Quinn

Brady Quinn, Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow? That's what McDaniels brought to the table at the most important position on the team. The guy is a piece of sh*t when it comes to anything outside of being an offensive coordinator and even he realizes that now.

bronco militia
01-02-2013, 06:48 AM
This just in, I'm announcing that I will not be pursuing Mila Kunis for a date this year.

this thread is awesome! :strong: Hilarious!

colonelbeef
01-02-2013, 07:19 AM
Right. I'm sure the rest of the league is just beating down his door.

Exactly.

How did the Patriots offense do while he was in Denver, anyway?

Hmm.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-02-2013, 07:39 AM
this thread is awesome! :strong: Hilarious!

Now this thread is awesome!
http://hungeree.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/mila_kunis_esquire_003.jpg

Drek
01-02-2013, 08:36 AM
Yes, with 8, yes EIGHT picks in the first two rounds in two drafts, even a blind fist pumping monkey could hit on a few players.

McDaniels problem wasn't player acquisition? I guess the rest of the league just hasn't caught up with the greatness that is:

Tim Tebow
Perrish Cox
Eric Olsen
Syd'Quan Thompson
Alphonso Smith
Darcel McBath
Richard Quinn
Seth Olsen

Not to mention players he brought in like:
Lawrence Maroney
Jarvis Green
Kyle Orton
Brady Quinn

Brady Quinn, Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow? That's what McDaniels brought to the table at the most important position on the team. The guy is a piece of sh*t when it comes to anything outside of being an offensive coordinator and even he realizes that now.

1. His 4 first round picks have paid off as well or better than anyone else in the league over that stretch. Thomas is a future star, Ayers has been a solid starter/very good rotational DE who has continued to improve. Moreno was the starter for two years, was never healthy last year long enough to even compete for the job, and now looks even better so far this season. Tebow took a 1-5 team to a division title and a MASSIVE win against the Steelers, that alone was worth the pick.

2. His second round selections were weak, but also 3 of the 4 came in his first year on a short prep schedule. McBath couldn't stay healthy after his rookie year, but that happens to anyone's draft selections. Smith and Quinn were busts (though Smith did have two solid years as a backup CB for Detroit). Beadles however has been a starter since day one and has done quite well for us, so at least one of those four was a clear hit.

Total success rate in the first two rounds = 5/8, not bad by NFL standards.

After that you list a bunch of late round guys which no one expects much from (Thompson's career with the Broncos is FAR better than you'd normally get form a 7th rounder for example).

As for free agents, you're griping about a bunch of low cost filler additions that ever team makes. The current regime gave Joe Mays more guaranteed money for this season than all of those players ever got from the Broncos excluding Orton, but that big payday for him was due to Elway's decision, not McDaniels.

His time here was the purge this club needed post-Shanahan (who I still argue is a first ballot HoF coach). Acting like he failed at everything in general is narrow minded, half assed bull**** that is beneath a board where people should be able to parse data into finer groups than "succeed" and "fail".

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 08:41 AM
1. His 4 first round picks have paid off as well or better than anyone else in the league over that stretch. Thomas is a future star, Ayers has been a solid starter/very good rotational DE who has continued to improve. Moreno was the starter for two years, was never healthy last year long enough to even compete for the job, and now looks even better so far this season. Tebow took a 1-5 team to a division title and a MASSIVE win against the Steelers, that alone was worth the pick.

2. His second round selections were weak, but also 3 of the 4 came in his first year on a short prep schedule. McBath couldn't stay healthy after his rookie year, but that happens to anyone's draft selections. Smith and Quinn were busts (though Smith did have two solid years as a backup CB for Detroit). Beadles however has been a starter since day one and has done quite well for us, so at least one of those four was a clear hit.

Total success rate in the first two rounds = 5/8, not bad by NFL standards.

After that you list a bunch of late round guys which no one expects much from (Thompson's career with the Broncos is FAR better than you'd normally get form a 7th rounder for example).

As for free agents, you're griping about a bunch of low cost filler additions that ever team makes. The current regime gave Joe Mays more guaranteed money for this season than all of those players ever got from the Broncos excluding Orton, but that big payday for him was due to Elway's decision, not McDaniels.

His time here was the purge this club needed post-Shanahan (who I still argue is a first ballot HoF coach). Acting like he failed at everything in general is narrow minded, half assed bull**** that is beneath a board where people should be able to parse data into finer groups than "succeed" and "fail".


Now it's 1-5? Keep spinning the truth.

Sure every team makes the low cost filler additions. Problem was McD was using them as priority. Gotta love throwing Jarvis green all that money for not even 1 play.

Drek
01-02-2013, 09:39 AM
Now it's 1-5? Keep spinning the truth.

Sure every team makes the low cost filler additions. Problem was McD was using them as priority. Gotta love throwing Jarvis green all that money for not even 1 play.

"All that money" was $3M, we paid Joe Mays more than that this season and I think most here would agree that they'd preferred it had he never played a snap.

And if you consider a guy like Jarvis Green a "priority" signing for McDaniels doesn't that just underline how little he was given to work with for a free agent budget?

DBroncos4life
01-02-2013, 09:52 AM
Beadles and Walton were on their way out of the NFL and Thomas and Decker were just tall dudes with bad hands that ran bad routes last year. McD is the WORST developer of players. Even if he drafts someone with talent they still end up a bust because he BLOWS. Thank you Manning for saving our team and making our past drafts look solid.

2KBack
01-02-2013, 10:01 AM
Beadles and Walton were on their way out of the NFL and Thomas and Decker were just tall dudes with bad hands that ran bad routes last year. McD is the WORST developer of players. Even if he drafts someone with talent they still end up a bust because he BLOWS. Thank you Manning for saving our team and making our past drafts look solid.

To be fair, is 1.5 seasons really enough time to develop anyone? He didn't have a full season with any of the players you listed.

DBroncos4life
01-02-2013, 10:13 AM
To be fair, is 1.5 seasons really enough time to develop anyone? He didn't have a full season with any of the players you listed.

Because he sucked.

lonestar
01-02-2013, 10:27 AM
Beadles and Walton were on their way out of the NFL and Thomas and Decker were just tall dudes with bad hands that ran bad routes last year. McD is the WORST developer of players. Even if he drafts someone with talent they still end up a bust because he BLOWS. Thank you Manning for saving our team and making our past drafts look solid.

So you mean fox and mc coy are lousy coaches because last year they were the guys in charge when tall dudes were lousy. Get over you love affaire with tanahana. He drafted watts the one handed WR.
Your pathetic. As for Beadles and Walton they will be around a long time.

lonestar
01-02-2013, 10:34 AM
[QUOTE=lonestar;3768835]RIF. I have never dissed him as a super bowl winner. Fnd a post that I have not praised him for those wins.

My compliant about him is being a mediocre at best coach after losing his HOF players. He had the chance to replace them but he brought in such notables as foster, delta, ashley, pierce.. Please remember that mikey never brought any of those HOF guys they were already here when he came to town.

Read my posts he has my respect early as a coach it is his last decade in Denver that was a disgrace. Glen Cadrez,

6 players out of 41 round 1-3 players resigned to play in DEN.
Those are the guys that every good teams build their franchise on.

SIX PLAYERS IN 14 YEARS. THAT IS A DISGRACE and it is all HIS FAULT AS HE WAS IN TOTAL CHARGE.

He brought in guys like:
TD, Tod kitchen, Aaron Craver followed by Howard Griffith, Eddie Mac, Rod Smith, Chamberlain, Lionel Washington, Michael Dean Perry (bum!), Britt Hager, James Jones, Eric THomas, dante Jones, Tim Hauck, Mike Lodish, dave Garnett, Ralph Tamm, Von Hebron, Jeff Lewis, Mike Scharad, Romo, Alfred Williams, John Mobley, Tory James, Maa Haa Tanauvasa, Randy HIllyard.Jumpy Geathers, Schlareth, Brister, von Hebron, Derek Lovel, detron SMith, William Green, Patrick Jeffers, Anthony Lynn, tim mCkyre, Brian Griese, Darren Gordon,
Trevor Pryce, Neil Smith, Eric Brown, Keith Traylor, etc... from 95-1998. would have loved it if mCd hit on 2 % of those.

Yet 90% of those players were brought in and overpaid in his first couple of years.

Now lost the skells he brought in over the next 10 years and they did not reach thatnlevel.



Btw Rod Smith was already on the team when he got here.

Action
01-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Beadles and Walton were on their way out of the NFL and Thomas and Decker were just tall dudes with bad hands that ran bad routes last year. McD is the WORST developer of players. Even if he drafts someone with talent they still end up a bust because he BLOWS. Thank you Manning for saving our team and making our past drafts look solid.

If you're older than 18, I highly suggest you see a nursing home.

Sounds like you can barely wipe your own ass.

Beadles and Walton on their way out of the NFL? LOL

Action
01-02-2013, 10:37 AM
People blaming for McDaniels for what happened in St. Louis is really just sad. As Drek said, fans in st. Louis don't even blame him...only omane posters that McDaniels took souls from do.

Action
01-02-2013, 10:38 AM
Not only that, he put a contract on the table for Champ which was seriously a slap in the face, and Champ accepted it! Then McD pulled it and said never mind. What was up with his friggin' mind games? Champ was one of his biggest defenders before that.

The guy (mcd) was just a phenomenal failure.

McDaniels should have never been GM and in charge of things like that off the bat.

The process of the hire was a phenomenal failure.

Not even John Fox, a guy whose been in the league for 25 years would be allowed to have full GM power.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 10:45 AM
You can sugar coat McDaniels however you want to. Fact is after the 6-0 start he went 5-17. Worst record in football during that 22 game stretch. He failed to make the adjustments needed to win games. Even cheating with video cameras couldnt help him win. He got progressively worse as his short career went on.

DBroncos4life
01-02-2013, 10:48 AM
You can sugar coat McDaniels however you want to. Fact is after the 6-0 start he went 5-17. Worst record in football during that 22 game stretch. He failed to make the adjustments needed to win games. Even cheating with video cameras couldnt help him win. He got progressively worse as his short career went on.

Yet tools prefer McD over Shanny. ROFL!

Action
01-02-2013, 10:57 AM
You can sugar coat McDaniels however you want to. Fact is after the 6-0 start he went 5-17. Worst record in football during that 22 game stretch. He failed to make the adjustments needed to win games. Even cheating with video cameras couldnt help him win. He got progressively worse as his short career went on.

Shanahan had colossal collapses, and he was a vet HC with 2 super bowls.

Look, there's no perfect coach. You can only put so much weight on a coach who didn't get 2 seasons, let alone 3, to coach a team in his FIRST coaching gig. I would put that standard on ANY coach not just McDaniels. Let's be clear about that.

Didn't use the cameras, obviously people are mad so they still use this.

Yes, the team fell off due to ultimately, hiring a ****ty ass DC because he wanted the defense ran only his way. Does that sound familiar to you?

Fact is, McDaniels should have never been asked to run the whole damn organization with no support all while being the head coach of a football team considering it was his 1st HC position in his career... ignoring that fact alone really jades the reality people try to paint with these records.

Oh yeah, let's not add the **** talent that was on the squad to begin with and the financial **** hole the Broncos were in because our previous head coach liked to sign week old peanut butter and jelly sandwiches off the street.

Action
01-02-2013, 11:00 AM
Let's be clear: McDaniels left the team in much better shape than Shanahan did...case in point?

We won the division and a playoff game against the STEELERS a season after he got fired using his core players.

We are currently 13-3, best record in the NFL (taking strength of schedule into account) while having many of his players on the squad and starting.

Oh yeah, and we aren't in a financial **** hole either with millions upon millions upon millions in dead money.

Those are facts...not feelings involved.

Saying that he used cameras is not a fact...it's just something that makes your precious feelings feel better.

Action
01-02-2013, 11:04 AM
Oh yeah, and guess who gave Tebow a season that made him look like he could play football... took Manning to his 2nd best season in his CAREER with an offense that ranked 4th in yardage and 2nd in scoring...

Mike McCoy.

Whose the hottest coordinator on the BLOCK in the NFL right now that's up for a HC gig?

Mike McCoy

Oh wait, who hired Mike McCoy as an OC?

That's right. Yours truly, Josh McDaniels.

Go look at the Broncos coaching staff and you'd be surprised how many coaches are still here from his tenure.

B-Large
01-02-2013, 11:08 AM
Thats great news for some NFL team... that guy's a disaster

2KBack
01-02-2013, 11:14 AM
Because he sucked.

Be that as it may....the development of talent isn't really a fair trait to attack him for, since he wasn't around long enough for any real development to occur. There are plenty of failings to point at, it seems superfluous to create one.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 11:20 AM
Don't use cameras? That London niner game is a perfect example of McD failing in a game. Singletary always scripted his first 15 plays. If you watch that game broncos had niners number on defense during the 1st half. Singletary made 2nd half adjustments at halftime, while McD picked his nose. McD got out coached once he knew what plays weren't coming. Filming another team is bad, Losing a game that you had illegal film on is even worse.

I get that he wasn't prepared to be a personnel guy, but I saw him get out coached way more times than not in games.

24champ
01-02-2013, 11:22 AM
The McDaniels failure was largely the fault of Pat/Ellis, for not upholding his end of the promises he made after firing Shanahan. It was one thing after another with Pat/Ellis. Promising new structural changes after Shanny, that never happened and made it worse when they cleaned out the front office. Leaving McD to scramble to prepare for his first draft.

The whole Cutler fiasco was Pat's doing after Shanahan got canned, Pat wasn't going to take any orders from Cutler, who told Pat to hang on to Bates. That relationship was far more toxic before McDaniels showed up.

Point is, Pat/Ellis did a horrible job managing the franchise after the guy that's managed it for a decade (Shanny) got canned.

24champ
01-02-2013, 11:27 AM
Don't use cameras? That London niner game is a perfect example of McD failing in a game. Singletary always scripted his first 15 plays. If you watch that game broncos had niners number on defense during the 1st half. Singletary made 2nd half adjustments at halftime, while McD picked his nose. McD got out coached once he knew what plays weren't coming. Filming another team is bad, Losing a game that you had illegal film on is even worse.

McD didn't want to use the tape. NFL investigation cleared him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/spygate-ii-nfl-fines-broncos-coach-josh-mcdaniels-team-employee-videotaped-49ers-walkthrough-article-1.454047]

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 11:30 AM
McD didn't want to use the tape. NFL investigation cleared him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/spygate-ii-nfl-fines-broncos-coach-josh-mcdaniels-team-employee-videotaped-49ers-walkthrough-article-1.454047]

Telling us fans that filming "was the norm" in his experiences tells me his hands were not clean

Action
01-02-2013, 11:34 AM
Don't use cameras? That London niner game is a perfect example of McD failing in a game. Singletary always scripted his first 15 plays. If you watch that game broncos had niners number on defense during the 1st half. Singletary made 2nd half adjustments at halftime, while McD picked his nose. McD got out coached once he knew what plays weren't coming. Filming another team is bad, Losing a game that you had illegal film on is even worse.

I get that he wasn't prepared to be a personnel guy, but I saw him get out coached way more times than not in games.

Niners ran the same 15 plays every game let alone in the 1st half with Singletary at the helm. 49ers are almost the second team I know about the most due to close friends being a fan of them.

It's sad that we lost to the Niners but we lost that day because we just physically got pushed and defense got tired.

As someone pointed out, he was already cleared for not using the tape. Saying his hands were dirty is speculation...

Action
01-02-2013, 11:35 AM
Telling us fans that filming "was the norm" in his experiences tells me his hands were not clean

He also said it was coached.

Someone else on the team would have came out and said something if he really had tape.

Honestly, it would be pointless to use tape against the Niners that season. They had the most uncreative/worse offenses in the NFL history.

Their playbook was probably around 10 plays.

Drek
01-02-2013, 11:55 AM
You can sugar coat McDaniels however you want to. Fact is after the 6-0 start he went 5-17. Worst record in football during that 22 game stretch. He failed to make the adjustments needed to win games. Even cheating with video cameras couldnt help him win. He got progressively worse as his short career went on.

Our current HC started out 1-4 here, then fell to 2-5. We were talking Andrew Luck as a real serious possibility mid-season last year, FYI. See what cherry picking data points does for you?

Failure to learn from history dooms you to repeat it. You are failing to learn why McDaniels failed. It wasn't player personnel where he wasn't amazing but he also wasn't bad by any stretch. He worked with a limited budget and didn't get a bust in the bunch from his first rounders, the picks you need to have work out. He obviously hired good front office people, evidenced by Matt Russell being promoted by the new regime and being asked to interview for GM jobs. He obviously hired good coaches, as about half of our coaching staff are McDaniels hold overs.

So what was the failure? He hired the right people, he wasn't dramatically awful at player acquisition. Hell, he made Kyle Orton look like a solid QB for a while there and even had Dumervil putting up a career year on defense with a greatly improved D in 2009.

McDaniels' time here got progressively worse because he was unable to delegate responsibility and unable to present consistency of leadership. The former led to his own burn out, the loss of quality coaches (Nolan) and the marginalizing of others. The later led to him losing the locker room. McDaniels lacked the experience and/or personality to be "the guy" for an NFL team.

Maybe that could have been rectified by keeping a strong GM over him instead of saving a few sheckles and giving him full autonomy, maybe it couldn't and he was going to blow up regardless. But being unable to look back and see not just that he was a failure but WHY he failed is weak and does nothing to stimulate growth.

Its clear that Bowlen has learned from those two years, and learned quite well. He's looser with the money now, he's taken Joe Ellis out of real football decisions, he brought in and empowered Elway, and he demanded an experienced HC who is comfortable letting his coordinators coordinate. The end results have been very enjoyable to date, but are only happening because Bowlen didn't do what 80% of this site does when talking McDaniels - discount everything and want it all burned to the ground. Instead a much more objective eye was taken across the board and what worked was left in place while what didn't was removed.

24champ
01-02-2013, 12:40 PM
he's taken Joe Ellis out of real football decisions, he brought in and empowered Elway, and he demanded an experienced HC who is comfortable letting his coordinators coordinate. The end results have been very enjoyable to date, but are only happening because Bowlen didn't do what 80% of this site does when talking McDaniels - discount everything and want it all burned to the ground. Instead a much more objective eye was taken across the board and what worked was left in place while what didn't was removed.

I can't overstate how much this organization has improved once Xanders was out of a job and Ellis had no input on football decisions. Their bean counting ways and number crunching was hindering the football operations department, greatly.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 01:17 PM
It's amazing when people put so much emphasis on that 1-4 start, whether it be teboners or McD lovers.

You guys do realize that was a lockout offseason WITH new coaches/gameplans. To think a team who transitioned a rebuild during a lockout offseason would start out slow is not out of the ordinary.

Drek
01-02-2013, 01:51 PM
It's amazing when people put so much emphasis on that 1-4 start, whether it be teboners or McD lovers.

You guys do realize that was a lockout offseason WITH new coaches/gameplans. To think a team who transitioned a rebuild during a lockout offseason would start out slow is not out of the ordinary.

Almost our entire offensive coaching staff was the same. For the first five games we tried to run the same offense McCoy and Orton had been in for two whole years before then (along with four of our five starting OLs, all our starting WRs and TEs, and almost all our backups). The defense from the year before was epic levels of bad, any improvement would have been massive, plus they had Doom back for a few of those games, who was gone all the previous year. The STs were already in place and last I looked it didn't take a ton of coaching to tell a solid kicker and punter to do their jobs.

Yet we dookied all over the field for a little over a month until they put Teebs in and the defense gelled around a more conservative, run run run punt offense.

Hell of an argument you got there.

fontaine
01-02-2013, 03:04 PM
1. His 4 first round picks have paid off as well or better than anyone else in the league over that stretch. Thomas is a future star, Ayers has been a solid starter/very good rotational DE who has continued to improve. Moreno was the starter for two years, was never healthy last year long enough to even compete for the job, and now looks even better so far this season. Tebow took a 1-5 team to a division title and a MASSIVE win against the Steelers, that alone was worth the pick.

2. His second round selections were weak, but also 3 of the 4 came in his first year on a short prep schedule. McBath couldn't stay healthy after his rookie year, but that happens to anyone's draft selections. Smith and Quinn were busts (though Smith did have two solid years as a backup CB for Detroit). Beadles however has been a starter since day one and has done quite well for us, so at least one of those four was a clear hit.

Total success rate in the first two rounds = 5/8, not bad by NFL standards.

After that you list a bunch of late round guys which no one expects much from (Thompson's career with the Broncos is FAR better than you'd normally get form a 7th rounder for example).

As for free agents, you're griping about a bunch of low cost filler additions that ever team makes. The current regime gave Joe Mays more guaranteed money for this season than all of those players ever got from the Broncos excluding Orton, but that big payday for him was due to Elway's decision, not McDaniels.

His time here was the purge this club needed post-Shanahan (who I still argue is a first ballot HoF coach). Acting like he failed at everything in general is narrow minded, half assed bull**** that is beneath a board where people should be able to parse data into finer groups than "succeed" and "fail".

When did I say he failed at everything? And who the hell is talking about Shanahan?

You claimed McDaniels problem wasn't personnel acquisition when his draft record is pathetic considering the amount of first day picks he had at his disposal.

Spin it any way you want, McDaniels had 8 first/second rounds picks of which only DT and Zane Beadles are starters.

The rest like Tebow, Quinn, McBath, A Smith are busts with Ayers a backup and Moreno as just another RB.

If you think that's not a problem then you need to step back into reality.

And that's not even mentioning targetting Brady Quinn for Peyton Hillis, bringing in Chris Simms and of course Kyle Orton.

For a guy that's supposed to be an offensive guru his chosen QBs were bottom of the barrel rancid.

But no, his personnel decisions weren't the problem?
ROFL! LOL

lonestar
01-02-2013, 03:16 PM
Our current HC started out 1-4 here, then fell to 2-5. We were talking Andrew Luck as a real serious possibility mid-season last year, FYI. See what cherry picking data points does for you?

Failure to learn from history dooms you to repeat it. You are failing to learn why McDaniels failed. It wasn't player personnel where he wasn't amazing but he also wasn't bad by any stretch. He worked with a limited budget and didn't get a bust in the bunch from his first rounders, the picks you need to have work out. He obviously hired good front office people, evidenced by Matt Russell being promoted by the new regime and being asked to interview for GM jobs. He obviously hired good coaches, as about half of our coaching staff are McDaniels hold overs.

So what was the failure? He hired the right people, he wasn't dramatically awful at player acquisition. Hell, he made Kyle Orton look like a solid QB for a while there and even had Dumervil putting up a career year on defense with a greatly improved D in 2009.

McDaniels' time here got progressively worse because he was unable to delegate responsibility and unable to present consistency of leadership. The former led to his own burn out, the loss of quality coaches (Nolan) and the marginalizing of others. The later led to him losing the locker room. McDaniels lacked the experience and/or personality to be "the guy" for an NFL team.

Maybe that could have been rectified by keeping a strong GM over him instead of saving a few sheckles and giving him full autonomy, maybe it couldn't and he was going to blow up regardless. But being unable to look back and see not just that he was a failure but WHY he failed is weak and does nothing to stimulate growth.

Its clear that Bowlen has learned from those two years, and learned quite well. He's looser with the money now, he's taken Joe Ellis out of real football decisions, he brought in and empowered Elway, and he demanded an experienced HC who is comfortable letting his coordinators coordinate. The end results have been very enjoyable to date, but are only happening because Bowlen didn't do what 80% of this site does when talking McDaniels - discount everything and want it all burned to the ground. Instead a much more objective eye was taken across the board and what worked was left in place while what didn't was removed.

:thumbs:

Great post do not let anyone tell you otherwise.

fontaine
01-02-2013, 03:56 PM
As for free agents, you're griping about a bunch of low cost filler additions that ever team makes. The current regime gave Joe Mays more guaranteed money for this season than all of those players ever got from the Broncos excluding Orton, but that big payday for him was due to Elway's decision, not McDaniels.

Those are just a few examples.

Care to explain away Lonnie Paxton (who got more money than Leach for essentially doing the same job), Brandon Gorin, Russ Hochstein, LaMont Jordan, LeKevin Smith, Renaldo Hill, Andre Goodman, Jamal Williams, Nate Jones, and other scrubs who he promptly started at OL?

But all is forgiven because he brought in Dawkins, and Buckhalter right?

Hilarious!

fontaine
01-02-2013, 04:00 PM
Oh yeah, and guess who gave Tebow a season that made him look like he could play football... took Manning to his 2nd best season in his CAREER with an offense that ranked 4th in yardage and 2nd in scoring...

Mike McCoy.

Whose the hottest coordinator on the BLOCK in the NFL right now that's up for a HC gig?

Mike McCoy

Oh wait, who hired Mike McCoy as an OC?

That's right. Yours truly, Josh McDaniels.

Go look at the Broncos coaching staff and you'd be surprised how many coaches are still here from his tenure.

Is brother Ben still there?

How about can't get 11 men on the field Martindale?

:)

DBroncos4life
01-02-2013, 04:12 PM
Is brother Ben still there?

How about can't get 11 men on the field Martindale?

:)

Let's not forget that McCoy was a member of John Fox's staff for 6 long prior to McD. Two years with George Seifert before Fox got there.

fontaine
01-02-2013, 04:21 PM
Almost our entire offensive coaching staff was the same. For the first five games we tried to run the same offense McCoy and Orton had been in for two whole years before then (along with four of our five starting OLs, all our starting WRs and TEs, and almost all our backups).

You want to explain why that was though?

Oh yeah, because the chosen one drafted by McDaniels couldn't beat out Brady freakin' Quinn in training camp even though the new staff wanted him to and barely understood how to run a conventional offense.

So yeah, Fox and co. were forced to go with plan B, another crappy QB brought in by McDouche.

fontaine
01-02-2013, 04:28 PM
Let's not forget that McCoy was a member of John Fox's staff for 6 long prior to McD. Two years with George Seifert before Fox got there.

I think the bigger question would be even if McD wanted to be the head coach who the hell would work under him as his staff knowing how he micro manages everything and has previously pissed off players and staff alike?

Wasn't it Dan Pees who worked alongside McDaniels in NE for years and when Josh wanted to hire him here as DC, Pees pretty much told him to piss off by taking the LBers position coach job in Baltimore instead?

ROFL!

Action
01-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Those are just a few examples.

Care to explain away Lonnie Paxton (who got more money than Leach for essentially doing the same job), Brandon Gorin, Russ Hochstein, LaMont Jordan, LeKevin Smith, Renaldo Hill, Andre Goodman, Jamal Williams, Nate Jones, and other scrubs who he promptly started at OL?

But all is forgiven because he brought in Dawkins, and Buckhalter right?

Hilarious!

Andre Goodman was just here last year when we beat the Steelers.

There is no HC/GM that hits 100% of his signings. That's a fact.

But Kevin Vickerson, Bannan, and Tony Carter are 3 FA's that he signed that eclipse anything Shanahan has ever signed in his whole CAREER and McDaniels found these players within 1.5 years. (Last 2 were released by the Broncos but acquired against by the current FO).

Also, McDaniels didn't put the Broncos in a financial **** hole even though those players didn't pan out.

fontaine
01-02-2013, 04:44 PM
Andre Goodman was just here last year when we beat the Steelers.

There is no HC/GM that hits 100% of his signings. That's a fact.

But Kevin Vickerson, Bannan, and Tony Carter are 3 FA's that he signed that eclipse anything Shanahan has ever signed in his whole CAREER and McDaniels found these players within 1.5 years. (Last 2 were released by the Broncos but acquired against by the current FO).

Also, McDaniels didn't put the Broncos in a financial **** hole even though those players didn't pan out.

And yet, McDaniels cut Tony Carter as well. It was this current FO that brought him back. See how stupid that makes him look now?

In the interest of sanity I'm going to pretty much end this thread right here:

There are only two possible reasons why McDaniels has withdrawn his name from a HC job:

1. He genuinely doesn't want to be a HC this offseason.

2. Or, like every HC candidate this offseason he shortlisted a number of assistants/staff/OCs/DCs etc and was told to politely piss off by them. Every single prospective HC gets asked who his shortlist of candidates are for his potential staff and those guys are right now getting an understanding of whether those assistants would be available/ready to work with them in a new team (unofficially).

Given how McDaniels pissed off a lot of people my money is on number 2.

Or as Todd Haley said: "There's a lot of **** being talked about you!"

Action
01-02-2013, 04:54 PM
And yet, McDaniels cut Tony Carter as well. It was this current FO that brought him back. See how stupid that makes him look now?

In the interest of sanity I'm going to pretty much end this thread right here:

There are only two possible reasons why McDaniels has withdrawn his name from a HC job:

1. He genuinely doesn't want to be a HC this offseason.

2. Or, like every HC candidate this offseason he shortlisted a number of assistants/staff/OCs/DCs etc and was told to politely piss off by them. Every single prospective HC gets asked who his shortlist of candidates are for his potential staff and those guys are right now getting an understanding of whether those assistants would be available/ready to work with them in a new team (unofficially).

Given how McDaniels pissed off a lot of people my money is on number 2.

Or as Todd Haley said: "There's a lot of **** being talked about you!"

No, he just pissed off a lot of omaners and fans in Denver.

But, I think it's both 1 and 2... doesn't want to be HC, doesn't have enough assistants he can hire... along with the fact that there might not be a team that's open he's interested in.

Come on son, you're really using Todd Haley as a reference to prove a point?

TODD HALEY?

fontaine
01-02-2013, 04:58 PM
No, he just pissed off a lot of omaners and fans in Denver.

But, I think it's both 1 and 2... doesn't want to be HC, doesn't have enough assistants he can hire... along with the fact that there might not be a team that's open he's interested in.

Come on son, you're really using Todd Haley as a reference to prove a point?

TODD HALEY?

I don't give a crap about Todd Haley but for him to say that directly to McDaniels with dozens of players/media around shows that McDaniels is thought of as a douche not just in the mane!

:)

Action
01-02-2013, 05:10 PM
I don't give a crap about Todd Haley but for him to say that directly to McDaniels with dozens of players/media around shows that McDaniels is thought of as a douche not just in the mane!

:)

Fair enough.

broncosteven
01-02-2013, 05:13 PM
[QUOTE=broncosteven;3769012]

Yet 90% of those players were brought in and overpaid in his first couple of years.

Now lost the skells he brought in over the next 10 years and they did not reach thatnlevel.



Btw Rod Smith was already on the team when he got here.

Shanny hit on most of those guys he brought in over the 1st 3-5 years, couple like Williams got hurt, we lost guys like Griffith and Wilson later due to injury after productive careers. It is hard to draft and hit on guys when you are in the mid to late 20's every year.

The thing is that Shanny has a proven system he can win with, he did with a couple versions of his teams under 3 different QB's in Denver and he is now doing it with Washington.

As of right now the 2 hottest teams are the Broncos with 11 straight wins and the Redskins with 7 straight.

Shanny knows how to repeatedly for find quality backs that can execute his system, he has a well designed passing game despite not having one big time WR and he found ways to get the most out of a rookie QB, something mCd couldn't do with his prized rookie QB he traded back up into the 1st round to draft.

If you look it up you will find that most of the core players that where here through the mCd years were the core guys when Shanny was here, sure mCd cut the dead weight of guys like Webster and those safeties we had but then Fox came in and cut the dead weight of the mCd busts.

Fact is Shanny is having repeated success right now based on a tried and true system, if mCd were to find another coaching job he would have nothing to build on other than what he stole from Belly and then Chucking the Ball Deep to Lloyd when that failed.

ZONA
01-02-2013, 05:55 PM
It's funny how we have people on here who support Cutler to the fullest yet he completely ****ted on the city of Denver. Yall are 6s just remember that.

Oh yeah... And McDaniels is a top coach in the league everyone knows that. That's why you people and the league are still talking today.

I don't know how anybody could support Cutler. As you said, he **** on Denver sorta, he's a dick, and most important, on the field he's actually not all that great. He throws way too many INT's, makes bad decisions all the time, doesn't have a positive attitude and is constantly badgering teammates when he makes just as many mistakes as anybody else on the team.

To be 100% honest, I'm glad he's not a Bronco anymore. To me, he's alot like Tony Romo. Will have some great games but for the most part, just way too consistent at making mistakes.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 06:56 PM
Hell of an argument you got there.


My arguement is backed up by seeing the worst span of Broncos football I have ever seen in my entire life. And to think McDaniels had little to do with it is asinine.

broncosteven
01-02-2013, 07:08 PM
Don't use cameras? That London niner game is a perfect example of McD failing in a game. Singletary always scripted his first 15 plays. If you watch that game broncos had niners number on defense during the 1st half. Singletary made 2nd half adjustments at halftime, while McD picked his nose. McD got out coached once he knew what plays weren't coming. Filming another team is bad, Losing a game that you had illegal film on is even worse.

I get that he wasn't prepared to be a personnel guy, but I saw him get out coached way more times than not in games.

The fact that mCd said in a presser that he didn't believe in adjustments told me all I needed to know.

Fox has built his success on adjusting at the half, he did it with Tebow and with Manning. Yet mCd thought adjustments were overrated. Then there is the whole Elway having to tell him it might be a good idea to script his 1st 15 plays! Elway wasn't even GM yet!

Action
01-02-2013, 07:17 PM
The fact that mCd said in a presser that he didn't believe in adjustments told me all I needed to know.

Fox has built his success on adjusting at the half, he did it with Tebow and with Manning. Yet mCd thought adjustments were overrated. Then there is the whole Elway having to tell him it might be a good idea to script his 1st 15 plays! Elway wasn't even GM yet!

I see you don't really care when people correct what you've said and you continue you repeat the same reasoning in every thread.

You're mad at McDaniels because he said he doesn't believe in adjustments, and yet you can't even make adjustments to posting the same illogical opinions in every thread that has to do with him.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 07:29 PM
What I saw was redzone failure after failure from McD. Move the ball between the 20s then he took a dump in the redzone. And that redzone failure creeped into the Rams offense too. They were just as horrible in the redzone. Without Belichick and Brady he doesn't know how to punch it in. I remember he called us "idiots" to think tebow would be a goaline positive when McD couldn't score on 1st and goal at the 1

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree about his coaching skills.

broncosteven
01-02-2013, 07:50 PM
I see you don't really care when people correct what you've said and you continue you repeat the same reasoning in every thread.

You're mad at McDaniels because he said he doesn't believe in adjustments, and yet you can't even make adjustments to posting the same illogical opinions in every thread that has to do with him.

You ever figure out if Belly or Chip Kelly had more input than mCd in the NE scheme this year?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/09/patriots-streamline-play-calling-speed-up-offense/

Looks like you have to wait another year before your mancrush gets another chance to dismantle an NFL franchise.

Action
01-02-2013, 07:54 PM
What I saw was redzone failure after failure from McD. Move the ball between the 20s then he took a dump in the redzone. And that redzone failure creeped into the Rams offense too. They were just as horrible in the redzone. Without Belichick and Brady he doesn't know how to punch it in. I remember he called us "idiots" to think tebow would be a goaline positive when McD couldn't score on 1st and goal at the 1

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree about his coaching skills.

This is a common problem in the NFL, not just McDaniels and the Broncos.

And you do realize you're pretty much explaining the "historical 2008 Broncos offense" that Shanahan lovers glaze about right?

Action
01-02-2013, 07:56 PM
You ever figure out if Belly or Chip Kelly had more input than mCd in the NE scheme this year?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/09/patriots-streamline-play-calling-speed-up-offense/

Looks like you have to wait another year before your mancrush gets another chance to dismantle an NFL franchise.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

And yeah, I already knew that considering I was already in this discussion weeks ago.

You're late. Make adjustments, bro. Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
01-02-2013, 08:18 PM
You ever figure out if Belly or Chip Kelly had more input than mCd in the NE scheme this year?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/09/patriots-streamline-play-calling-speed-up-offense/

Looks like you have to wait another year before your mancrush gets another chance to dismantle an NFL franchise.
He will be on another name by then so we will never know who this tool is. LOL

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-02-2013, 08:19 PM
This is a common problem in the NFL, not just McDaniels and the Broncos.

And you do realize you're pretty much explaining the "historical 2008 Broncos offense" that Shanahan lovers glaze about right?

I never thought it was historical, but in 2008 they had 354 1st downs with 42 TDs. 2009 it was only 306 1st downs with 34 TDs. 2010 309 40 TDs. Sans 3 games for McD not coaching. Third down conversions were terrible under McD. 67-207 in 2010? Redzone was 54% in 2008 48% in 09

Action
01-02-2013, 08:28 PM
I never thought it was historical, but in 2008 they had 354 1st downs with 42 TDs. 2009 it was only 306 1st downs with 34 TDs. 2010 309 40 TDs. Sans 3 games for McD not coaching. Third down conversions were terrible under McD. 67-207 in 2010? Redzone was 54% in 2008 48% in 09

I never said the 2009 offense was as good as the 2008 offense...however... 54%/48% are both horrible. Was 2008 better? Yes, I'd hope so considering they had been playing together for 3 years as compared to 1 for the McDaniels.

However...6% better after 3 years of experience in that system?

Yeah, think about it.

pricejj
01-02-2013, 08:41 PM
**** McDaniels and the horse he rode out on.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-02-2013, 09:47 PM
I never said the 2009 offense was as good as the 2008 offense...however... 54%/48% are both horrible. Was 2008 better? Yes, I'd hope so considering they had been playing together for 3 years as compared to 1 for the McDaniels.

However...6% better after 3 years of experience in that system?

Yeah, think about it.

Talk about glossing over stuff. LOL

Action
01-02-2013, 09:54 PM
Talk about glossing over stuff. LOL

Considering that we're talking about which offense was ****tier, yeah it's going to sound like that.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-02-2013, 10:24 PM
Considering that we're talking about which offense was ****tier, yeah it's going to sound like that.

Ha. He just showed you which one was $h!ttier. Keep glossing. LOL

Action
01-02-2013, 10:29 PM
Ha. He just showed you which one was $h!ttier. Keep glossing. LOL

... he showed me which was ****tier and I admitted so? What's there to gloss about?

Difference is, one offense had an NFL starting caliber QB along with an offense that has been in the system for 3 years vs a NFL back up caliber QB in his first year of a system along with the rest of the team.

The fact that we are even comparing the two offenses tells you WHAT about the former?

Or was that too complicated for you?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-02-2013, 10:36 PM
... he showed me which was ****tier and I admitted so? What's there to gloss about?

Difference is, one offense had an NFL starting caliber QB along with an offense that has been in the system for 3 years vs a NFL back up caliber QB in his first year of a system along with the rest of the team.

The fact that we are even comparing the two offenses tells you WHAT about the former?

Or was that too complicated for you?

Oh really? You want to look at the second year? Its not prettier. But wait there that when you queue up the "he didn't get the chance to finish the season."

Action
01-02-2013, 10:46 PM
Oh really? You want to look at the second year? Its not prettier. But wait there that when you queue up the "he didn't get the chance to finish the season."

The 2nd year performed better than the prior year AND he didn't get to finish the season.

Try again.

Next time, take into account that the 2008 offense had 3 years and it was widely considered here as such a historical Broncos offense Hilarious!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-02-2013, 11:06 PM
The 2nd year performed better than the prior year AND he didn't get to finish the season.

Try again.

Next time, take into account that the 2008 offense had 3 years and it was widely considered here as such a historical Broncos offense Hilarious!

LOL

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO
1 New Orleans Saints 16 28.9 463 1,047 410.7 6.3 22.1 97 200 48 10 18 56 86 797 30:28 18 8 -4
2 Denver Broncos 16 23.1 370 1,019 395.8 6.2 22.1 95 200 48 4 10 40 77 739 28:44 18 12 -17

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2010&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO
1 San Diego Chargers 16 27.6 441 1,039 395.6 6.1 22.3 92 205 45 5 13 38 84 677 33:03 25 16 -6
2 Philadelphia Eagles 16 27.4 439 1,038 389.4 6.0 20.1 85 214 40 9 13 69 129 1,101 31:15 33 12 +9
3 Houston Texans 16 24.4 390 1,029 386.6 6.0 22.5 79 192 41 9 19 47 90 690 29:26 15 6 0
4 Indianapolis Colts 16 27.2 435 1,088 380.8 5.6 22.9 91 204 45 5 8 62 79 709 29:55 14 8 -4
5 New York Giants 16 24.6 394 1,035 380.3 5.9 20.7 74 206 36 3 11 27 92 777 32:32 26 17 -3
6 New Orleans Saints 16 24 384 1,067 372.5 5.6 21.9 106 217 49 5 11 46 90 884 32:05 23 9 -6
7 Dallas Cowboys 16 24.6 394 1,035 364.2 5.6 20.4 86 211 41 13 22 59 109 863 31:25 28 11 0
8 New England Patriots 16 32.4 518 986 363.8 5.9 20.9 95 197 48 7 14 50 83 766 29:24 9 5 +28
9 Green Bay Packers 16 24.2 388 1,000 358.1 5.7 19.5 85 205 42 5 13 38 78 617 32:01 20 9 +10
10 Oakland Raiders 16 25.6 410 1,039 354.6 5.5 19.1 75 220 34 8 20 40 148 1,276 31:12 32 10 -2
11 New York Jets 16 22.9 367 1,087 351.0 5.2 19.2 93 235 40 5 14 36 103 934 32:37 23 7 +9
12 Kansas City Chiefs 16 22.9 366 1,063 349.7 5.3 19.9 83 226 37 10 23 44 90 771 31:39 15 6 +9
13 Denver Broncos 16 21.5 344 1,018 348.9 5.5 19.3 67 207 32 6 19 32 98 944 28:09 29 15 -9



LOL. Ahhhhh Yeah. Hilarious!

Action
01-02-2013, 11:15 PM
LOL

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO
1 New Orleans Saints 16 28.9 463 1,047 410.7 6.3 22.1 97 200 48 10 18 56 86 797 30:28 18 8 -4
2 Denver Broncos 16 23.1 370 1,019 395.8 6.2 22.1 95 200 48 4 10 40 77 739 28:44 18 12 -17

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2010&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO
1 San Diego Chargers 16 27.6 441 1,039 395.6 6.1 22.3 92 205 45 5 13 38 84 677 33:03 25 16 -6
2 Philadelphia Eagles 16 27.4 439 1,038 389.4 6.0 20.1 85 214 40 9 13 69 129 1,101 31:15 33 12 +9
3 Houston Texans 16 24.4 390 1,029 386.6 6.0 22.5 79 192 41 9 19 47 90 690 29:26 15 6 0
4 Indianapolis Colts 16 27.2 435 1,088 380.8 5.6 22.9 91 204 45 5 8 62 79 709 29:55 14 8 -4
5 New York Giants 16 24.6 394 1,035 380.3 5.9 20.7 74 206 36 3 11 27 92 777 32:32 26 17 -3
6 New Orleans Saints 16 24 384 1,067 372.5 5.6 21.9 106 217 49 5 11 46 90 884 32:05 23 9 -6
7 Dallas Cowboys 16 24.6 394 1,035 364.2 5.6 20.4 86 211 41 13 22 59 109 863 31:25 28 11 0
8 New England Patriots 16 32.4 518 986 363.8 5.9 20.9 95 197 48 7 14 50 83 766 29:24 9 5 +28
9 Green Bay Packers 16 24.2 388 1,000 358.1 5.7 19.5 85 205 42 5 13 38 78 617 32:01 20 9 +10
10 Oakland Raiders 16 25.6 410 1,039 354.6 5.5 19.1 75 220 34 8 20 40 148 1,276 31:12 32 10 -2
11 New York Jets 16 22.9 367 1,087 351.0 5.2 19.2 93 235 40 5 14 36 103 934 32:37 23 7 +9
12 Kansas City Chiefs 16 22.9 366 1,063 349.7 5.3 19.9 83 226 37 10 23 44 90 771 31:39 15 6 +9
13 Denver Broncos 16 21.5 344 1,018 348.9 5.5 19.3 67 207 32 6 19 32 98 944 28:09 29 15 -9



LOL. Ahhhhh Yeah. Hilarious!

I have no idea what the hell you just wasted your time on pointing out. I think you think I said the 2010 was better than 2008, which I clearly did not.

I clearly just wasted my time with the boy at the back of the small yellow school bus.

You're going to have to try extra hard next time to get my attention.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-02-2013, 11:29 PM
I have no idea what the hell you just wasted your time on pointing out. I think you think I said the 2010 was better than 2008, which I clearly did not.

I clearly just wasted my time with the boy at the back of the small yellow school bus.

You're going to have to try extra hard next time to get my attention.

Which stat do you want to talk about?

Bacchus
01-02-2013, 11:45 PM
LOL

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO
1 New Orleans Saints 16 28.9 463 1,047 410.7 6.3 22.1 97 200 48 10 18 56 86 797 30:28 18 8 -4
2 Denver Broncos 16 23.1 370 1,019 395.8 6.2 22.1 95 200 48 4 10 40 77 739 28:44 18 12 -17

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2010&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO
1 San Diego Chargers 16 27.6 441 1,039 395.6 6.1 22.3 92 205 45 5 13 38 84 677 33:03 25 16 -6
2 Philadelphia Eagles 16 27.4 439 1,038 389.4 6.0 20.1 85 214 40 9 13 69 129 1,101 31:15 33 12 +9
3 Houston Texans 16 24.4 390 1,029 386.6 6.0 22.5 79 192 41 9 19 47 90 690 29:26 15 6 0
4 Indianapolis Colts 16 27.2 435 1,088 380.8 5.6 22.9 91 204 45 5 8 62 79 709 29:55 14 8 -4
5 New York Giants 16 24.6 394 1,035 380.3 5.9 20.7 74 206 36 3 11 27 92 777 32:32 26 17 -3
6 New Orleans Saints 16 24 384 1,067 372.5 5.6 21.9 106 217 49 5 11 46 90 884 32:05 23 9 -6
7 Dallas Cowboys 16 24.6 394 1,035 364.2 5.6 20.4 86 211 41 13 22 59 109 863 31:25 28 11 0
8 New England Patriots 16 32.4 518 986 363.8 5.9 20.9 95 197 48 7 14 50 83 766 29:24 9 5 +28
9 Green Bay Packers 16 24.2 388 1,000 358.1 5.7 19.5 85 205 42 5 13 38 78 617 32:01 20 9 +10
10 Oakland Raiders 16 25.6 410 1,039 354.6 5.5 19.1 75 220 34 8 20 40 148 1,276 31:12 32 10 -2
11 New York Jets 16 22.9 367 1,087 351.0 5.2 19.2 93 235 40 5 14 36 103 934 32:37 23 7 +9
12 Kansas City Chiefs 16 22.9 366 1,063 349.7 5.3 19.9 83 226 37 10 23 44 90 771 31:39 15 6 +9
13 Denver Broncos 16 21.5 344 1,018 348.9 5.5 19.3 67 207 32 6 19 32 98 944 28:09 29 15 -9



LOL. Ahhhhh Yeah. Hilarious!

Copy and Paste sucks

Drek
01-03-2013, 03:45 AM
Those are just a few examples.

Care to explain away Lonnie Paxton (who got more money than Leach for essentially doing the same job), Brandon Gorin, Russ Hochstein, LaMont Jordan, LeKevin Smith, Renaldo Hill, Andre Goodman, Jamal Williams, Nate Jones, and other scrubs who he promptly started at OL?

But all is forgiven because he brought in Dawkins, and Buckhalter right?

Hilarious!

So you rebut my statement that he was only allowed to make low cost signings by listing a bunch of EXTREMELY low cost signings? Good god. The only people on that list who were paid anything close to real starter money were Andre Goodman and Brian Dawkins.

Also, this team could use a Russ Hochstein circa four years ago pretty badly right now if you ask me. Solid OL who isn't quite good enough to demand a starting job but can play across the interior at the drop of a hat. Just saying.

You want to explain why that was though?

Oh yeah, because the chosen one drafted by McDaniels couldn't beat out Brady freakin' Quinn in training camp even though the new staff wanted him to and barely understood how to run a conventional offense.

So yeah, Fox and co. were forced to go with plan B, another crappy QB brought in by McDouche.
The crappy QB who led this team to it's first division title and playoff win in half a decade?

You mean the QB the FO said was "the man" heading into 2011, but when no one wanted to give dick for Orton they backed themselves into paying Kyle $9M?

Or the FO that didn't give Tebow any first team snaps during their little "competition" for the starting job?

Or the FO who promptly looked for a way to send Tebow out of town immediately after that sophomore season where he actually fired this team up and won those big games?

Yeah, lets not go down that road. The current regime's commitment to Tebow isn't exactly a home run rebuttal for you here.

My arguement is backed up by seeing the worst span of Broncos football I have ever seen in my entire life. And to think McDaniels had little to do with it is asinine.
Where did I say he had nothing to do with it? I said you need to see why he failed, not that he didn't cause it.

Whatever, I'm done. This is talking to a bunch of spoiled little children filled with bile and vitriol towards what they perceive as the boogie man. Don't worry, Josh McDaniels isn't under your bed or in your closet anymore. Thank you all for once again proving that the U.S. really is regressing when it comes to things like literacy and critical thinking. Please, please refrain from breeding.

fontaine
01-03-2013, 04:06 AM
Whatever, I'm done. This is talking to a bunch of spoiled little children filled with bile and vitriol towards what they perceive as the boogie man. Don't worry, Josh McDaniels isn't under your bed or in your closet anymore. Thank you all for once again proving that the U.S. really is regressing when it comes to things like literacy and critical thinking. Please, please refrain from breeding.

I enjoy discussing/debating topics related to this team and football in general here on the mane especially with knowledgeable posters like yourself, and others.

But if you have a problem with the "little children" here, why don't you go and post somewhere else where the levels of literacy and critical thinking are up to your standards.

lonestar
01-05-2013, 09:39 AM
I don't know how anybody could support Cutler. As you said, he **** on Denver sorta, he's a dick, and most important, on the field he's actually not all that great. He throws way too many INT's, makes bad decisions all the time, doesn't have a positive attitude and is constantly badgering teammates when he makes just as many mistakes as anybody else on the team.

To be 100% honest, I'm glad he's not a Bronco anymore. To me, he's alot like Tony Romo. Will have some great games but for the most part, just way too consistent at making mistakes.

Did a quick look see a few nights ago cutlet total carreer had like 100 TDs and close to 150 fumbles and picks. Great ratio.

lonestar
01-05-2013, 09:51 AM
This is a common problem in the NFL, not just McDaniels and the Broncos.

And you do realize you're pretty much explaining the "historical 2008 Broncos offense" that Shanahan lovers glaze about right?

Was thinking much the same thing however it was years 2000-08 that we moved the ball between the 20 and had red zone issues each year other than two when mike and mike were here. Then of course Mikey traded them the next year since they wanted to be RBs instead of goal line guys only.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-05-2013, 10:44 AM
So you rebut my statement that he was only allowed to make low cost signings by listing a bunch of EXTREMELY low cost signings? Good god. The only people on that list who were paid anything close to real starter money were Andre Goodman and Brian Dawkins.

Also, this team could use a Russ Hochstein circa four years ago pretty badly right now if you ask me. Solid OL who isn't quite good enough to demand a starting job but can play across the interior at the drop of a hat. Just saying.


The crappy QB who led this team to it's first division title and playoff win in half a decade?

You mean the QB the FO said was "the man" heading into 2011, but when no one wanted to give dick for Orton they backed themselves into paying Kyle $9M?

Or the FO that didn't give Tebow any first team snaps during their little "competition" for the starting job?

Or the FO who promptly looked for a way to send Tebow out of town immediately after that sophomore season where he actually fired this team up and won those big games?

Yeah, lets not go down that road. The current regime's commitment to Tebow isn't exactly a home run rebuttal for you here.


Where did I say he had nothing to do with it? I said you need to see why he failed, not that he didn't cause it.

Whatever, I'm done. This is talking to a bunch of spoiled little children filled with bile and vitriol towards what they perceive as the boogie man. Don't worry, Josh McDaniels isn't under your bed or in your closet anymore. Thank you all for once again proving that the U.S. really is regressing when it comes to things like literacy and critical thinking. Please, please refrain from breeding.

I see you hit a wall and now sweatily grasping at the strained and weak strings of personal attacks. That's ok cause that's the first sign of a defeated arguement. Feel free to come back with something other than a played out breeding joke.

broncosteven
01-20-2013, 06:24 PM
After the Patsy game plan tonight maybe mCd should have taken a HC gig before he gets fired by Belly.

MacGruder
01-20-2013, 07:08 PM
Is Belichick ever going to retire? I wonder if McD knows something others don't? Beli taking a front office job while McD transitions to head coach would seem to be a smooth transition.. Who knows when Belichick will call it quits though.

pricejj
01-20-2013, 07:10 PM
Would be lovely to see McDaniels take over the Patriots head gig.

MacGruder
01-20-2013, 07:23 PM
With Beli still pulling the strings behind the curtain things wouldn't be that much different tho probably.

pricejj
01-20-2013, 07:39 PM
With Beli still pulling the strings behind the curtain things wouldn't be that much different tho probably.

Doesn't matter, he can't win without cheating anyway.

Gutless Drunk
01-20-2013, 07:43 PM
McDaniel's offense in Championships:

14 Points in The Super Bowl
13 Points in the AFC Championship

Loser

pricejj
01-20-2013, 08:29 PM
McNozzle

broncosteven
01-20-2013, 08:37 PM
Is Belichick ever going to retire? I wonder if McD knows something others don't? Beli taking a front office job while McD transitions to head coach would seem to be a smooth transition.. Who knows when Belichick will call it quits though.

At this point why would Patsy fans want more of the same.

I totally hated the thought of firing Shanny but now realize it was time.

When Kraft does the same thing it will be with a new HC with a new system that gives them the best chance to win not more of the same.

broncosteven
01-20-2013, 08:39 PM
With Beli still pulling the strings behind the curtain things wouldn't be that much different tho probably.

So are you back here until Tebow gets out of Limbo? Did you create accounts on the Argonauts or Roughrider fan forums preping for his move to the CFL?

lonestar
01-20-2013, 11:25 PM
At this point why would Patsy fans want more of the same.

I totally hated the thought of firing Shanny but now realize it was time.

When Kraft does the same thing it will be with a new HC with a new system that gives them the best chance to win not more of the same.

Now I did not watch every minute of the game, but it looked to me that the new England defense lost that game, much the same way we lost to BAL. unable to shut down flacko.



The last time I noticed mc Daniels does not coach the defense. Nor does he throw the picks that ulitmately cost them the game.

Seems to me that there is a lot of unjustified hate going on.

Durango
01-21-2013, 01:12 AM
Now I did not watch every minute of the game, but it looked to me that the new England defense lost that game, much the same way we lost to BAL. unable to shut down flacko.



The last time I noticed mc Daniels does not coach the defense. Nor does he throw the picks that ulitmately cost them the game.

Seems to me that there is a lot of unjustified hate going on.

Oh, I don't know. I think I can hate McDaniel's just for breathing the same air, and I can justify the absolute contempt for that slimy little weasel based simply on the fact that he damaged my favorite team almost beyond repair.

SPORTSWRITER
01-21-2013, 06:56 AM
I really wanted him to get the KC job.

RIGHT ON!!! I would have really enjoyed watching us kick his McDumbAss two times a year!!!

Gutless Drunk
01-21-2013, 07:57 AM
The fact that mCd said in a presser that he didn't believe in adjustments told me all I needed to know.

Looks like Mr. no adjustments once again did not make any for the second half:

32035

CEH
01-21-2013, 08:10 AM
Now I did not watch every minute of the game, but it looked to me that the new England defense lost that game, much the same way we lost to BAL. unable to shut down flacko.



The last time I noticed mc Daniels does not coach the defense. Nor does he throw the picks that ulitmately cost them the game.

Seems to me that there is a lot of unjustified hate going on.

Being shut out in the 2nd half outscored 21-0 does fall equally on the offense to extend a 6 point lead at halftime

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-21-2013, 08:30 AM
Now I did not watch every minute of the game, but it looked to me that the new England defense lost that game, much the same way we lost to BAL. unable to shut down flacko.



The last time I noticed mc Daniels does not coach the defense. Nor does he throw the picks that ulitmately cost them the game.

Seems to me that there is a lot of unjustified hate going on.

The offense only managed 13 points on over 400 yards with 3 turnovers. Lots of yards with nothing to show for it was exactly what he did here. That loss is on the offense. McCoy throws ints, so why can't McD?

MacGruder
01-21-2013, 09:48 AM
So are you back here until Tebow gets out of Limbo? Did you create accounts on the Argonauts or Roughrider fan forums preping for his move to the CFL?

Do you realize how ridiculous it is to mock a player who outplayed one of your golden geezers and made a fool of both of them?

broncocalijohn
01-21-2013, 09:50 AM
The offense only managed 13 points on over 400 yards with 3 turnovers. Lots of yards with nothing to show for it was exactly what he did here. That loss is on the offense. McCoy throws ints, so why can't McD?

Sounds like a day at a Cutler job.

Lestat
01-21-2013, 10:31 AM
if the Patriots could ever learn to draft well and develop the guys they stock all those picks for they would be a sick team.
people ignored the failings for years because they got FA's the come in and replace guys they let go but it's piling up now.

McDaniels didn't script the game plan well in the 2nd half but on some of those plays, the Ravens just wanted it more. you could see the hunger in their play, especially on that Ridley hit.

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 10:51 AM
Now I did not watch every minute of the game, but it looked to me that the new England defense lost that game, much the same way we lost to BAL. unable to shut down flacko.



The last time I noticed mc Daniels does not coach the defense. Nor does he throw the picks that ulitmately cost them the game.

Seems to me that there is a lot of unjustified hate going on.

The fact that you defend the guy after admitting you did not watch the entire game tells me you are not objective when it comes to Franchise killer mCd.

The good news is you should be able to order a Canton High Tee Shirt when he ends up as their HC.

If you did watch the game you would have seen how the Raven's were keying on what the Pats were doing and were able to get multiple passes batted at the LOS, hit and hurry Brady, and even force a holding call on Solder. The Ravens were able to cover WR's forcing Brady to run on 4th down, panic and end up throwing it away when he should have manned up and done everything he could have to get the 1st down, you know like Elway did in SB XXXII.

I admit to missing the CiDtL option in garbage time. I figured they would have tried to push the ball downfield late behind 15, after all Orton was able to hit him on those garbage time bombs. Instead they kept throwing to Welker running crossing routes, when they finally got Welker down the field he was chased down by the guy he juked. Sure they missed Gronk and Riddley late (they were already down and ineffective when Riddley went out) but they still had Hernandez, Lloyd and Welker and they kept going to Welker 1st running the same O as in the 1st half.

lonestar
01-21-2013, 01:02 PM
The offense only managed 13 points on over 400 yards with 3 turnovers. Lots of yards with nothing to show for it was exactly what he did here. That loss is on the offense. McCoy throws ints, so why can't McD?

So he was on the field here throwing picks and fumbling the ball. That stuff was not done by the QBs,,WRs or RBs.

For what it worth those 400 hundred yards and 13 points sounds like that past 12-14 years.

Face it the BAL defense was better prepared for both Denver and NE offenses.

And in both cases their offense was better prepared than our defenses.

We were out coached and our players were best at their own game.

How many games have we lost over the past decade to teams that should have been easy wins?

We lost this past game at the LOS. Mostly with their OL beating our DL. allowing Flacko all the time he needed to throw the long ball.

lonestar
01-21-2013, 01:12 PM
The fact that you defend the guy after admitting you did not watch the entire game tells me you are not objective when it comes to Franchise killer mCd.

The good news is you should be able to order a Canton High Tee Shirt when he ends up as their HC.

If you did watch the game you would have seen how the Raven's were keying on what the Pats were doing and were able to get multiple passes batted at the LOS, hit and hurry Brady, and even force a holding call on Solder. The Ravens were able to cover WR's forcing Brady to run on 4th down, panic and end up throwing it away when he should have manned up and done everything he could have to get the 1st down, you know like Elway did in SB XXXII.

I admit to missing the CiDtL option in garbage time. I figured they would have tried to push the ball downfield late behind 15, after all Orton was able to hit him on those garbage time bombs. Instead they kept throwing to Welker running crossing routes, when they finally got Welker down the field he was chased down by the guy he juked. Sure they missed Gronk and Riddley late (they were already down and ineffective when Riddley went out) but they still had Hernandez, Lloyd and Welker and they kept going to Welker 1st running the same O as in the 1st half.

Again did Mc D did not throw the picks and frankly I suspect that Brady was making the calls at the LOS overriding anything that was being sent in.

The facts are neither NEs or Denver's OL are dominate and in DEN case have had issues in the red zone almost forever. This year was better but the facts are when Moreno went down we floundered.

Now would Bal have taken him out of the game anyway? I guess we will have to wait till next year to know.

BAl has a class GM and great HC and they have been building a solid franchise since they opened the doors.

I can only hope that John E will be half the GM that Newsome is.

COWheatGrower
01-21-2013, 01:24 PM
It's so funny how much McDickless supporters will go out of their way to defend his pitiful performances.

I have even heard excuses for the Rams' No. 32 offensive showing in 2011. I don't care how poor the talent level is, a capable offensive coordinator finds a way to generate production better than 32. There's no defending being dead last, which the Rams were by a wide margin.

Drunken.Broncoholic
01-21-2013, 01:33 PM
So he was on the field here throwing picks and fumbling the ball. That stuff was not done by the QBs,,WRs or RBs.

For what it worth those 400 hundred yards and 13 points sounds like that past 12-14 years.

Face it the BAL defense was better prepared for both Denver and NE offenses.

And in both cases their offense was better prepared than our defenses.

We were out coached and our players were best at their own game.

How many games have we lost over the past decade to teams that should have been easy wins?

We lost this past game at the LOS. Mostly with their OL beating our DL. allowing Flacko all the time he needed to throw the long ball.


Sure their defense showed up. But these wins are a result of an offense clicking on all cylinders. Credible journalists calling flacco elite after this season? I wouldn't have thought that. But he's balling right now. That offense smacked them right in the face while the pats offense looked pitiful at home when it counted most.

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 01:33 PM
Again did Mc D did not throw the picks and frankly I suspect that Brady was making the calls at the LOS overriding anything that was being sent in.

The facts are neither NEs or Denver's OL are dominate and in DEN case have had issues in the red zone almost forever. This year was better but the facts are when Moreno went down we floundered.

Now would Bal have taken him out of the game anyway? I guess we will have to wait till next year to know.

BAl has a class GM and great HC and they have been building a solid franchise since they opened the doors.

I can only hope that John E will be half the GM that Newsome is.

If this is true what is the point of having an OC at all?

There was an article about how the pats call in the plays quickly in their speed version of the no huddle based on options Brady is sent in over the head set and at the line, those are usually run plays or hot routes. They got away from this very early in the game, you would have seen this if you watched it.

I highly doubt Brady would have audibled out of all of mCd perfect plays into plays that failed.

It came down to execution just like our loss did. The fact that the Ravens were able to learn what the Pats were trying to do then cheat into better positions to break up their plays just proves that no adjustments (which mCd admitted to not believing in during a Bronco Presser) were made. Ravens had 2-3 bat downs at the LOS late in the 4th quarter.

Also if you watched the game you would have noticed that when the Ravens went up 15 with like 8-9 minutes to go they dropped into deeper coverages taking away the quick strike, something Milus should have instructed our Safeties to do last game. When the Pats got inside the Ravens 30 the Ravens clamped down and were able to force a turnover on downs, a batted INT and a straight INT.

mCd has always been a great garbage time coach, even Orton looked great with the game out of reach. It was what they didn't do with the game in reach that hurt them.

To endlessly defend a guy who continues to fail at his last 3 stops just because you don't want to be wrong about him is insane.

broncosteven
01-21-2013, 01:43 PM
mCd should have let the phone ring and gone on interviews, not because he wanted an HC job now but to gain experience interviewing and forging new relationships.

One of his biggest short comings was his contact base in the NFL. He had to have his 1st DC suggested to him by his agent, his 2nd came from outside the NFL ranks. If he wants to have a successful career he needs to get out from under the Belly tree.

Chances are Belly could retire, get fired, or need to offer up a scapegoat at some point if they do not continue to have success. The chances of a phone ringing after your team has failed is less than if you stay out and active on the radar.

That said a poor interview could limit him also, especially in the closed loop that is the NFL, but to call around and tell guys not to call you is laughable.

MacGruder
01-21-2013, 02:38 PM
It's so funny how much McDickless supporters will go out of their way to defend his pitiful performances.

I have even heard excuses for the Rams' No. 32 offensive showing in 2011. I don't care how poor the talent level is, a capable offensive coordinator finds a way to generate production better than 32. There's no defending being dead last, which the Rams were by a wide margin.

McDaniels seems to have serious problems leading men... in Beli's system with the kind of players he gets and with Belli carrying him in the leadership department it's probably not an issue.. but any other team it seems to be. McDaniels could be a great college coach though because they have more control and don't have to take BS from the players. Look at Saban... it was like night and day and he seems to not to want back into the NFL at all.

lonestar
01-21-2013, 06:49 PM
If this is true what is the point of having an OC at all?

There was an article about how the pats call in the plays quickly in their speed version of the no huddle based on options Brady is sent in over the head set and at the line, those are usually run plays or hot routes. They got away from this very early in the game, you would have seen this if you watched it.

I highly doubt Brady would have audibled out of all of mCd perfect plays into plays that failed.

It came down to execution just like our loss did. The fact that the Ravens were able to learn what the Pats were trying to do then cheat into better positions to break up their plays just proves that no adjustments (which mCd admitted to not believing in during a Bronco Presser) were made. Ravens had 2-3 bat downs at the LOS late in the 4th quarter.

Also if you watched the game you would have noticed that when the Ravens went up 15 with like 8-9 minutes to go they dropped into deeper coverages taking away the quick strike, something Milus should have instructed our Safeties to do last game. When the Pats got inside the Ravens 30 the Ravens clamped down and were able to force a turnover on downs, a batted INT and a straight INT.

mCd has always been a great garbage time coach, even Orton looked great with the game out of reach. It was what they didn't do with the game in reach that hurt them.

To endlessly defend a guy who continues to fail at his last 3 stops just because you don't want to be wrong about him is insane.

if for no other reason than to design a game plan, that is something that should not fall on the QB's shoulders alone. But we all know that Brady plays much the same as Manning does, calling it on the fly..

you said it all in that sentence the rest was superfluous..

I'm hardly wrong about him, I just do not have a hardon for him like most do.. he had flaws and he had good ideas....
IMO he was done an injustice by saddling him with an existing front office, that seemed to still be in a mikey mode..