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comoose00
12-25-2012, 11:50 AM
Something has been bothering me lately. I keep hearing how KM has fumbling issues and I do not understand were this perception came from.

KM has had 7 fumbles in his career
WM has had 8 since becoming a Bronco

I really do feel people will look for anything to attack him cause he was drafted by McDummy.

errand
12-25-2012, 12:14 PM
Something has been bothering me lately. I keep hearing how KM has fumbling issues and I do not understand were this perception came from.

KM has had 7 fumbles in his career
WM has had 8 since becoming a Bronco

I really do feel people will look for anything to attack him cause he was drafted by McDummy.

Several reasons why he's been oft-maligned, whether or not it's justified, who knows...but take your pick.

[] He was drafted by McDaniels who is despised by many on here....

[] He wasn't the guy they wanted McDaniels to draft in 1st round of '09...

[] He wasn't worth the 12th overall pick in their opinion....

[] He had 4 fumbles in his rookie season and 3 more in his sophomore season....that's 7 of his 9 career fumbles.

[] He has been considered injury prone by many on here

[] All of the above.....

ZONA
12-25-2012, 12:50 PM
Well he certainly looks like he's addressed the fumbles. He now loses more shoes then he does footballs. He still talks a little too much smack it seems after every play but you can live with that. He's playing well, let's hope he stays healthy and when WM comes back, we'll be that much stronger at RB.

pricejj
12-25-2012, 12:52 PM
Knowshon is just alright with me.
Knowshon is just alright, oh yeah.
Knowshon is just alright with with me.
Knowshon is just alright....whoah yEAHHH!!!

lonestar
12-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Something has been bothering me lately. I keep hearing how KM has fumbling issues and I do not understand were this perception came from.

KM has had 7 fumbles in his career
WM has had 8 since becoming a Bronco

I really do feel people will look for anything to attack him cause he was drafted by McDummy.

I tend to agree with you.. IMO the draft choice of JOSH is the biggie..

not sure where the hate for beadles and Walton went, for that matter DT, Ayers, Burton and Decker..

but Moreno still stands out there as pure..

Orange4Life
12-25-2012, 01:30 PM
I'm on the Moreno bandwagon. Dude has been awesome since Willis went down

Raidersbane
12-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Watching him hurdle Ed Reed in person will always be a fond Bronco memory.

gyldenlove
12-25-2012, 02:31 PM
Several reasons why he's been oft-maligned, whether or not it's justified, who knows...but take your pick.

[] He was drafted by McDaniels who is despised by many on here....

[] He wasn't the guy they wanted McDaniels to draft in 1st round of '09...

[] He wasn't worth the 12th overall pick in their opinion....

[] He had 4 fumbles in his rookie season and 3 more in his sophomore season....that's 7 of his 9 career fumbles.

[] He has been considered injury prone by many on here

[] All of the above.....

Pretty much, he was drafted by Mcdaniels which is not good baggage, he was not worth a top 16 pick and the money associated with that pick. Moreno hasn't been a productive runner, in 590 carries as a Bronco he has 2400 rushing yards, 15 TDs and 9 fumbles. Mcgahee has in 400 carries as a broncos 1900 rushing yards, 8 TDs and 9 fumbles. Mcgahee has a much better yards per carry average, although he has more fumbles and fewer TDs per carry.

He has been injury prone and clearly lacks big play ability.

Moreno was a guy who was over drafted in a poor year for RBs, he is servicable and I think had he been a 4th rounder people would love him. If he moves on and signs a low free agent contract and puts up the kind of play he has lately people will love him in whichever town he plays.

lonestar
12-25-2012, 02:34 PM
Pretty much, he was drafted by Mcdaniels which is not good baggage, he was not worth a top 16 pick and the money associated with that pick. Moreno hasn't been a productive runner, in 590 carries as a Bronco he has 2400 rushing yards, 15 TDs and 9 fumbles. Mcgahee has in 400 carries as a broncos 1900 rushing yards, 8 TDs and 9 fumbles. Mcgahee has a much better yards per carry average, although he has more fumbles and fewer TDs per carry.

He has been injury prone and clearly lacks big play ability.

Moreno was a guy who was over drafted in a poor year for RBs, he is servicable and I think had he been a 4th rounder people would love him. If he moves on and signs a low free agent contract and puts up the kind of play he has lately people will love him in whichever town he plays.

IIRC one of the reasons they moved on him when they did they got the word the SAN was going to take him with their choice that was coming a few later..

whether the was true or not I dunno .

Irish Stout
12-25-2012, 02:36 PM
I don't know where the fumble arguments come from. But here are a few legitimate reasons why people weren't happy with him (I believe the feelings are changing)

1. Orakpo (of course we'd rather have Knowshon now than the IR Orakpo)

2. Sauced

3. Dance moves not football moves

4. Injuries

5. It appeared at the beginning of this season he wasn't into it.

lonestar
12-25-2012, 02:57 PM
I don't know where the fumble arguments come from. But here are a few legitimate reasons why people weren't happy with him (I believe the feelings are changing)

1. Orakpo (of course we'd rather have Knowshon now than the IR Orakpo)

2. Sauced

3. Dance moves not football moves

4. Injuries

5. It appeared at the beginning of this season he wasn't into it.

by anyone else in the league it would be hailed as great..

IA-Broncosfan53
12-25-2012, 04:05 PM
He has almost done enough this season for me to stop calling him Slowshon, but not quite. He has 3 horrible bust seasons to make up for yet. He is highly motivated right now, lets see how he performs once he receives an extension or guaranteed contract from another team. I think teams would be foolish to sign this kid to more than a 2 year contract, just using basic principles of management.

strafen
12-25-2012, 04:42 PM
Something has been bothering me lately. I keep hearing how KM has fumbling issues and I do not understand were this perception came from.

KM has had 7 fumbles in his career
WM has had 8 since becoming a Bronco

I really do feel people will look for anything to attack him cause he was drafted by McDummy.He's lost more shoes than he's fumbled...I think

SportinOne
12-25-2012, 05:06 PM
I mean, the guy has been very, very average and he was a first round pick.. I think that's where it stems from, add to that he just can't seem to stay on the field (until lately) and you have frustration.

Hilman looks good for a situational back and i would expect he gets better at "vision" and technique for next year, hopefully he can improve on his blocking as well.. Either way, we need another potential stud for next year.

Pony Boy
12-25-2012, 05:25 PM
Well he certainly looks like he's addressed the fumbles. He now loses more shoes then he does footballs. He still talks a little too much smack it seems after every play but you can live with that. He's playing well, let's hope he stays healthy and when WM comes back, we'll be that much stronger at RB.

Kiss of death.......................

hambone13
12-25-2012, 05:31 PM
Pretty much, he was drafted by Mcdaniels which is not good baggage, he was not worth a top 16 pick and the money associated with that pick. Moreno hasn't been a productive runner, in 590 carries as a Bronco he has 2400 rushing yards, 15 TDs and 9 fumbles. Mcgahee has in 400 carries as a broncos 1900 rushing yards, 8 TDs and 9 fumbles. Mcgahee has a much better yards per carry average, although he has more fumbles and fewer TDs per carry.

He has been injury prone and clearly lacks big play ability.

Moreno was a guy who was over drafted in a poor year for RBs, he is servicable and I think had he been a 4th rounder people would love him. If he moves on and signs a low free agent contract and puts up the kind of play he has lately people will love him in whichever town he plays.

I tend to agree with everything here and hope to emphasize that his durability is a huge part of the emphasis on doubting him.

ZONA
12-25-2012, 05:41 PM
He's lost more shoes than he's fumbled...I think

Perfect example of somebody not reading through the thread. This was already said just the 2 posts down from OP.

barryr
12-25-2012, 05:41 PM
Moreno has stepped up when called upon and he's been huge for the team. His pass blocking as also been good too. He kept a good attitude and that has helped him. He could have sulked and decided he wouldn't give a full effort for this team anymore, but he chose a different path. Others in the NFL could learn from him.

Kaylore
12-25-2012, 05:52 PM
I like Knowshon because of ball security. It seems like McGahee has been fumbling the ball a lot. Sometimes multiple times in one game. That fumble against the Patriots was a killer. I really think we could have at least scored on that drive were it not for that. Turnovers have been a killer for us this year.

Knowshon has always done well in blocking and catching the ball. Now it appears he has started to run the ball like we needed. But most importantly he doesn't fumble. Turnovers are the primary reason the Patriots are as good as they look. They are +23. The next closest team is the ball-hawking Bears with two corners having career years at +16. I am on some level grateful that McGahee won't be back until after the AFCCG, because as it sits right now we are going to play them in the divisional round.

Now if we can get someone to teach him to lace his shoes properly...

Hulamau
12-25-2012, 05:58 PM
I like Knowshon because of ball security. It seems like McGahee has been fumbling the ball a lot. Sometimes multiple times in one game. That fumble against the Patriots was a killer. I really think we could have at least scored on that drive were it not for that. Turnovers have been a killer for us this year.

Knowshon has always done well in blocking and catching the ball. Now it appears he has started to run the ball like we needed. But most importantly he doesn't fumble. Turnovers are the primary reason the Patriots are as good as they look. They are +23. The next closest team is the ball-hawking Bears with two corners having career years at +16. I am on some level grateful that McGahee won't be back until after the AFCCG, because as it sits right now we are going to play them in the divisional round.

Now if we can get someone to teach him to lace his shoes properly...

Feel the same way Kaylore, KM has gotten a bad rap and now, thankfully, is able to show what he can do when healthy and a little more experienced and the game has obviously slowed down for him now.

KM was never a big fumble worry and he seems extra intent on security since his return. Hopefully Willis is working on his ball glue while convalescing .. would be great to have willis and Knowshon trading off to keep each fresh in the AFCCG and SB should we make it to each so long as Willis has his fumblitis cured at last.

DarkHorse
12-25-2012, 06:44 PM
It was his hesitance and 'dancing' behind the line that irked me and ultimately led to me just outright hating the fact that he's on our team. He never just cut upfield, hit the hole hard, etc.... like he lacked vision or was just plain scared to cut it up there.

Since he stepped onto the field replacing McGahee it's like seeing an entirely different running back in him. He's pounding the ball, making nice cuts, attacking the line of scrimmage and showing a bit of quickness.

He's kicking ass right now, I don't feel bad about knocking him as hard as I have - I feel great for the guy! Personally, I would like to see him stay in the lineup whether McGahee is ready or not.

My dislike for the guy is waning very fast. I really really like the player that he's become lately. I see a different player.

cutthemdown
12-25-2012, 06:51 PM
I like Knowshon because of ball security. It seems like McGahee has been fumbling the ball a lot. Sometimes multiple times in one game. That fumble against the Patriots was a killer. I really think we could have at least scored on that drive were it not for that. Turnovers have been a killer for us this year.

Knowshon has always done well in blocking and catching the ball. Now it appears he has started to run the ball like we needed. But most importantly he doesn't fumble. Turnovers are the primary reason the Patriots are as good as they look. They are +23. The next closest team is the ball-hawking Bears with two corners having career years at +16. I am on some level grateful that McGahee won't be back until after the AFCCG, because as it sits right now we are going to play them in the divisional round.

Now if we can get someone to teach him to lace his shoes properly...

You can really take the winds out of the pats defense by not turning over the ball. Not sure how you gameplan for that but if we meet them again we can't let them win the turnover battle and run the ball down our throats like last time.

People seem confident manning will do better. I don't worry about that i think we can move the ball all friggin day on the pats. My worry if we couldn't stop them at all the last 2-3 times we have played them. Last game they punished our front 7 running the ball.

Bacchus
12-25-2012, 06:52 PM
Knowshon is just alright with me.
Knowshon is just alright, oh yeah.
Knowshon is just alright with with me.
Knowshon is just alright....whoah yEAHHH!!!

Doobie Brothers rock

ZONA
12-25-2012, 07:23 PM
I like Knowshon because of ball security. It seems like McGahee has been fumbling the ball a lot. Sometimes multiple times in one game. That fumble against the Patriots was a killer. I really think we could have at least scored on that drive were it not for that. Turnovers have been a killer for us this year.

Certainly in those early games against the better teams, IMO, turnovers were a huge reason we did not win all 3 of those games. Especially the Falcons game where we had 4 turnovers in the 1st QTR. The Houston game we did have some turnovers but to me that was more about giving up big plays and not getting off the field on 3rd down. Houston had drives of 98, 89 and 72 yards. And our offense was just not finishing drives of their own, as we had to settle for 3 1st half FG's with no TD's. The Patriots game, well we all know Brady is good but when you give him 250 yards rushing along with the passing, you're gonna lose that game 99% of the time, home or away.

The Falcons game we can chalk that up to a very very bad day for Manning, well at least a very very bad 1st QTR. The other losses, probably some growing pains with the team still coming together and partially the Joe Mays factor. The defense seems to have been tweaked enough during the season to the point I think they're in a good place. With KM running the ball, we've got the production and ball security. The receivers are doing well, the passing game is going good. I think our ST's is doing well also. We're just in a good place right now.

I think we're primed and ready for a good playoff run.

Bacchus
12-25-2012, 07:56 PM
McGhaee will come back for the AFC Championship game and Denver's one two punch will be very good.

ZONA
12-25-2012, 08:45 PM
McGhaee will come back for the AFC Championship game and Denver's one two punch will be very good.

Do you think it's possible that we could see some 2 back sets with both guys healthy and playing well. I mean, both run pretty good they run hard. They block very well and pass catch pretty good also. Would be interesting to see if they did some stuff with that.

Broncos4Life
12-25-2012, 09:00 PM
Do you think it's possible that we could see some 2 back sets with both guys healthy and playing well. I mean, both run pretty good they run hard. They block very well and pass catch pretty good also. Would be interesting to see if they did some stuff with that.

I think that's a good idea. They could really mix up some formations with all 3 guys, including Hillman.

I think they need to unleash some KM screens in the playoffs. KM has been really good with them. Maybe some PA fake to WM/screen to KM. That would be pretty sweet.

Only thing that worries me is WM's fumbles. I'd be so pissed if we went out because of some stupid fumbles. And that's all that I see in my head when thinking about WM running the ball.

strafen
12-25-2012, 11:35 PM
Perfect example of somebody not reading through the thread. This was already said just the 2 posts down from OP.

Next time, I'll make sure I waste 10 minutes of my life reading thru the crap people post here....

Punisher
12-26-2012, 03:16 AM
Something has been bothering me lately. I keep hearing how KM has fumbling issues and I do not understand were this perception came from.

KM has had 7 fumbles in his career
WM has had 8 since becoming a Bronco

I really do feel people will look for anything to attack him cause he was drafted by McDummy.

WM and KM are basically the same player :thanku:. (WM knows how to pass block better)

cutthemdown
12-26-2012, 04:34 AM
I think that's a good idea. They could really mix up some formations with all 3 guys, including Hillman.

I think they need to unleash some KM screens in the playoffs. KM has been really good with them. Maybe some PA fake to WM/screen to KM. That would be pretty sweet.

Only thing that worries me is WM's fumbles. I'd be so pissed if we went out because of some stupid fumbles. And that's all that I see in my head when thinking about WM running the ball.

The Hester inside handoffs that have went for TDs are a great thing. IMO it sets up an outside pitch to Moreno in the playoffs. Hester scores a few more of those, or maybe he already has, and teams will start looking for that play when Broncos get inside the 5 yrd line. Hopefully we are saving some really nice redzone plays for the playoffs.

The one last week where manning threw the pick was sort of ugly though. I felt like Moreno just ran a docile ugly route instead of cutting across the face of his defender.

Who knows though maybe just a well defended play.

It all comes down to the redzone IMO. Broncos score when they get there and they have 30 points every game.

cutthemdown
12-26-2012, 04:36 AM
I'd say Hillman may not see much action once playoffs start. Just my guess though. Rookies often hit a wall around now and I don't think he will be any kind of factor for the rest of this yr.

Beantown Bronco
12-26-2012, 05:22 AM
Moreno hasn't been a productive runner, in 590 carries as a Bronco he has 2400 rushing yards, 15 TDs and 9 fumbles.

I hope you meant to write "HAS" instead of "hasn't", because that's pretty solid production.....especially when you include his 843 receiving yards and 6 receiving TDs, which you conveniently left off (even though you counted ALL fumbles, even receiving ones).

Beantown Bronco
12-26-2012, 05:25 AM
He has almost done enough this season for me to stop calling him Slowshon, but not quite. He has 3 horrible bust seasons to make up for yet.

His rookie season, in 9 starts, he had 950 rushing yards and over 200 receiving with 9 TDs behind one of the worst OLines and schemes in NFL history. There is absolutely no way one could argue that it was a horrible bust season. Over half of all running backs that get drafted don't do that for a career. He did it in part time duty his rookie year.

mhgaffney
12-26-2012, 05:27 AM
If I remember right Knowshown led all rookies in yardage his first year.

Beantown Bronco
12-26-2012, 05:33 AM
If I remember right Knowshown led all rookies in yardage his first year.

He did.

Butterscotch Stallion
12-26-2012, 09:07 AM
Bust.

outdoor_miner
12-26-2012, 09:22 AM
I'd say Hillman may not see much action once playoffs start. Just my guess though. Rookies often hit a wall around now and I don't think he will be any kind of factor for the rest of this yr.

I actually think Hillman has been coming on pretty strong of late. I feel like he is showing more burst through the line, and is starting to run much less tentatively. We'll see, but I imagine he'll continue to see 5 - 10 touches per game in the playoffs. McGahee's return could definitely muddle things up. However, I get the feeling that if Moreno continues to play will, McGahee will not be rushed back for the playoffs.

Boogerboots
12-26-2012, 09:34 AM
Maybe its just me but when I see him carry the ball since his return, he reminds me of Tiki Barber after he changed the way he carried the ball to stop the fumble issues he had. It's higher and the ball is perpendicular to the ground.

Sauced is making the most of his chances, I just hope his play will continue on a gravy train ride to the super bowl.

Butterscotch Stallion
12-26-2012, 09:34 AM
If I remember right Knowshown led all rookies in yardage his first year.

The number 12 SHOULD be able to break 2k in 5 games.

cmhargrove
12-26-2012, 09:35 AM
I was out of town and just got to watch the Browns game.

The flexibility that Moreno offers as both a move the chains runner, and a wideout cannot be underestimated. Willis just isnt the same receiving threat as Knowshon. He may not be spectacular, but definitely is looking like he can fill the multi-threat role better than any other back on our roster.

He still has a few issues with conditioning, and that is why I would love to see Willis back sometime during the playoffs. A fresh McGahee fighting for his spot (next year) could be a beautiful thing at just he right time.

Drek
12-26-2012, 10:47 AM
I actually think Hillman has been coming on pretty strong of late. I feel like he is showing more burst through the line, and is starting to run much less tentatively. We'll see, but I imagine he'll continue to see 5 - 10 touches per game in the playoffs. McGahee's return could definitely muddle things up. However, I get the feeling that if Moreno continues to play will, McGahee will not be rushed back for the playoffs.

He has and I'd attribute some of that to a more balanced distribution of carries. Lance Ball has had all of two touches since Moreno took over, while Hillman has gone form seeing one or two carries one week, 10 the next, to more like a consistent 5 carries a week.

Ball had been the receiving RB up to that point, taking a lot of obvious passing down work. Moreno being strongest in the passing game has had him consolidate those carries into one back, freeing up more run plays for Hillman. Its almost a 1:1 for Hillman's increased touches versus Ball's reduced touches, largely thanks to Moreno's utility knife toolbox.

baja
12-26-2012, 11:53 AM
I was out of town and just got to watch the Browns game.

The flexibility that Moreno offers as both a move the chains runner, and a wideout cannot be underestimated. Willis just isnt the same receiving threat as Knowshon. He may not be spectacular, but definitely is looking like he can fill the multi-threat role better than any other back on our roster.

He still has a few issues with conditioning, and that is why I would love to see Willis back sometime during the playoffs. A fresh McGahee fighting for his spot (next year) could be a beautiful thing at just he right time.


Couldn't agree more on the versatility of Moreno. He's always been the type of player that is the perfect fit for Manning's offense. So important that he his healed up and playing well with the improved attitude. So many things have gone right for this team. These are the synchronistic events you need to have happen in a season to get to play in the big game and win.

TonyR
01-09-2013, 06:53 AM
Mystery solved?

What's going on with Knowshon Moreno and his shoes? I've never seen a player lose his shoe so often.
--Kal Arakawa, Denver

I just talked to Moreno about it. He says he has been fitted with cleats this year that are cut low on the back of his foot. He showed them to me and I mean they're cut right down to his heel.

He never had this problem before this season because he never wore this style of shoe. He does run well in them, otherwise. "I could tape them up," he said. "But I haven't done that yet. I'm thinking about it."

Read more: Broncos Mailbag: Peyton Manning, Denver should be concerned vs. Ravens - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_22332938/peyton-manning-broncos-tough-task-baltimore-ravens#ixzz2HUSWJHW1
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Beantown Bronco
01-09-2013, 06:59 AM
Mystery solved?



Read more: Broncos Mailbag: Peyton Manning, Denver should be concerned vs. Ravens - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_22332938/peyton-manning-broncos-tough-task-baltimore-ravens#ixzz2HUSWJHW1
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Two things I have a problem with there:

1. It HAS happened before this year.

2. If they're really cut that low, then why don't they just slip back on in a mili-second, like slippers? They clearly don't and he needs to come out every time it happens.

TonyR
01-10-2013, 01:37 PM
A lot of people give Hillman a pass because he's young. The article linked below reminded me that Knowshon was drafted after his sophomore year of college, so he came in fairly young and inexperienced as well.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/knowshon-moreno-im-running-with-my-eyes-now

errand
01-10-2013, 02:14 PM
A lot of people give Hillman a pass because he's young. The article linked below reminded me that Knowshon was drafted after his sophomore year of college, so he came in fairly young and inexperienced as well.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/knowshon-moreno-im-running-with-my-eyes-now

Exactly...he's a young guy, and seems to be more disciplined and is healthy.

He's rushed for 510 yards in his 6 starts (85 yards per start) and 155 receiving yards (26 yards per start) and even better hasn't fumbled once since week two.

He's been praised constantly by coaches and team mates alike...but it doesn't matter. short of pulling a Terrell Davis and running rampant thru the playoffs at a historical clip, he will always be maligned by narrow minded people who hate him solely because of where he was drafted and who drafted him (like either of those were his fault)

Requiem
01-10-2013, 03:10 PM
Good Q&A with Knowshon (http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/QA-with-Knowshon-Moreno/9214602e-cab6-4287-a7e1-e9cc50023822) at the team site.

BroncoFanDoug
01-10-2013, 03:57 PM
KM looks a lot bigger since he has come back, and obviously he is following blockers better. Always been a great receiver and solid pass blocker.

Never was a KM hater. The reality is he has run pretty well when 100% healthy, and he has not been 100% health very much over his career.

In my mind the big question is he just one of those players that gets injured a lot, or has he just been really unlucky?

errand
01-10-2013, 04:12 PM
KM looks a lot bigger since he has come back, and obviously he is following blockers better. Always been a great receiver and solid pass blocker.

Never was a KM hater. The reality is he has run pretty well when 100% healthy, and he has not been 100% health very much over his career.

In my mind the big question is he just one of those players that gets injured a lot, or has he just been really unlucky?

Could be a little of both....his career could end up similiar to Fred Taylor's, who was considered injury prone in his early years the Jax locals called him Fragile Fred, as he missed 24 of his first 64 games...but missed only 12 more over his next 7 seasons.

Knowshon might prove to be as good as originally advertised now that he's been humbled a bit.....

maher_tyler
01-10-2013, 04:36 PM
KM looks a lot bigger since he has come back, and obviously he is following blockers better. Always been a great receiver and solid pass blocker.

Never was a KM hater. The reality is he has run pretty well when 100% healthy, and he has not been 100% health very much over his career.

In my mind the big question is he just one of those players that gets injured a lot, or has he just been really unlucky?

I thought he looked like he put on some weight as well. I think him putting on the extra weight will help he stay healthier and be able to pound the rock 20+ times a game.

mhgaffney
01-10-2013, 05:24 PM
Couldn't agree more on the versatility of Moreno. He's always been the type of player that is the perfect fit for Manning's offense. So important that he his healed up and playing well with the improved attitude. So many things have gone right for this team. These are the synchronistic events you need to have happen in a season to get to play in the big game and win.

This.