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View Full Version : Does KM start even when WM comes back?


ZONA
12-18-2012, 08:08 PM
Hypothetically, if KM were to continue his ways of running well, good blocking and great ball security, and if we made it to the AFC Championship game, if WM were healthy at that point, do you still start KM or do you start WM?

Having them both healthy and suited up will be a very awesome 1 - 2 punch, but who would you start and give more reps to?

For me, if KM doesn't fumble this entire time and is productive, I gotta say you keep KM as the starter. Love to bring WM in for 10 plays, maybe give Hillman 4 or 5 touches but I don't think I would start WM. That's my view. What's yours?

tsiguy96
12-18-2012, 08:12 PM
knowshon has played better in his limited starts than willis has this year.

broncosteven
12-18-2012, 08:15 PM
Depends on what Willis does in practice and how healthy he is.

I think if the coaches think he is 100% he starts but in a limited role. I think Willis is better in Blitz pickups. Regardless of who starts both guys will get a lot of touches.

The best thing about KM not sucking is that he is keeping Lance Ball off the field on the O.

I do wonder who will be inactive because Lance plays ST's. I would hate to see Hillman inactive because he is our only home run threat a RB.

Heyneck
12-18-2012, 08:16 PM
knowshon has played better in his limited starts than willis has this year.

This! I still can't see why people can't acknowledge that he has outperformed WM in the 4 games he has started. Why mess with something that wasn't working before but now is to the T. KM was made for this offense (though I still think he would beast in a Mike Shanahan Offense.)

broncosteven
12-18-2012, 08:18 PM
knowshon has played better in his limited starts than willis has this year.

Depends which 3 of McGhee's games you take, he has 3 100 yard games this year, KM has 4 in his entire career.

If anything they are starting to look like the same type of back now that KM got the message.

BroncoMan4ever
12-18-2012, 08:18 PM
Yes, keep playing him. Same situation as DJ, don't screw with what is working just because someone who MIGHT be better is returning. I find the irony of KM getting benched for 8 games funny when Willis was putting the ball on the ground every week.

Mogulseeker
12-18-2012, 08:19 PM
knowshon has played better in his limited starts than willis has this year.

This. If Knowshon plays full-time the way he has.... then he's a better back at this point than the Mega-He.

bronco militia
12-18-2012, 08:19 PM
knowshon has played better in his limited starts than willis has this year.

wtf?

knowshown is always a liability in pass protection

Mogulseeker
12-18-2012, 08:20 PM
Yes, keep playing him. Same situation as DJ, don't screw with what is working just because someone who MIGHT be better is returning. I find the irony of KM getting benched for 8 games funny when Willis was putting the ball on the ground every week.

Fox prefers vets, sometimes to a fault... why do you think Brooking is stil Mike?

Mogulseeker
12-18-2012, 08:20 PM
wtf?

knowshown is always a liability in pass protection

http://i.qkme.me/3ok910.jpg

theAPAOps5
12-18-2012, 08:21 PM
wtf?

knowshown is always a liability in pass protection

Except not at all.

Mogulseeker
12-18-2012, 08:22 PM
Knowshon is the best blocking/receiving back on the team.

McGahee is a good blocker, but doesn't really go out on routes. He's not bad at it, just not as good as Moreno.

Hillman is the opposite: good receiver, terrible in pass-pro.

bronco militia
12-18-2012, 08:22 PM
http://i.qkme.me/3ok910.jpg

wow! knowshow sat in street clothes for 8 straight games for no reason....no reason at all!

:rofl::rofl:

ZONA
12-18-2012, 08:25 PM
This. If Knowshon plays full-time the way he has.... then he's a better back at this point than the Mega-He.

I agree. The production has been about the same as what McGahee was having but so far, KM has not fumbled and for me, that's the BIG reason why I keep him as the starter. That inactive stretch really seems to have hit home with him and it shows. He's playing like his life depends on it.

broncosteven
12-18-2012, 08:27 PM
What is KM's status? He was getting worked on and didn't return to the last game.

I really think they should limit KM's touches to about 20 just to keep him healthy.

Heyneck
12-18-2012, 08:28 PM
Depends which 3 of McGhee's games you take, he has 3 100 yard games this year, KM has 4 in his entire career.

If anything they are starting to look like the same type of back now that KM got the message.

So... when did WM had 4 consecutive games with 20 or more carries, no fumbles, back to back 100 yard games, and 2 TDs (he actually has 3 but 2 in the last 4 games), while WM had 4 in 11.

Sorry but it ain't close. WM if healthy will be the 2nd back and get between 5-10 carries. Want to bet on it?

ZONA
12-18-2012, 08:29 PM
wow! knowshow sat in street clothes for 8 straight games for no reason....no reason at all!

:rofl::rofl:

I think we all can agree that this has been a different KM then before the inactive stretch. Sometimes it takes something like that to resonate with a guy. You come out of college as a high pick, you're a cocky guy, and you think it's your job, and if not, then the next team will certainly be happy to have you. I think he's figured out that maybe that next team won't be callin and certainly just because you're a high pick doesn't mean jack without production. Hard to say, it's only been 4 games but if FEELS like he's got a different attitude.

Heyneck
12-18-2012, 08:30 PM
wtf?

knowshown is always a liability in pass protection

wtf? are you for real? hahahaha hater! There is a reason KM is back in the lineup. He is very good (not great) a picking up the blitz.

swaiy
12-18-2012, 08:31 PM
wow! knowshow sat in street clothes for 8 straight games for no reason....no reason at all!

:rofl::rofl:

It wasnt because of his pass blocking unless you are suggesting he learned to do that in the 8 weeks he was running the scout team plays.

theAPAOps5
12-18-2012, 08:31 PM
wow! knowshow sat in street clothes for 8 straight games for no reason....no reason at all!

:rofl::rofl:

link me a story that said he was horrible in pass protection and thats why he is benched.

He may have sucked prior to coming back out of the dog house but it had absolutely nothing to do with his pass protection.

Heyneck
12-18-2012, 08:32 PM
Fox prefers vets, sometimes to a fault... why do you think Brooking is stil Mike?

because he is actually better than anyone we have. And don't give me the DJ playing MLB argument. He failed that test long ago.

broncosteven
12-18-2012, 08:32 PM
Knowshon is the best blocking/receiving back on the team.

McGahee is a good blocker, but doesn't really go out on routes. He's not bad at it, just not as good as Moreno.

Hillman is the opposite: good receiver, terrible in pass-pro.

Hillman loses the weight/height differential and seems to have no upper body strength which is not good when your trying to block or get in the way of someone bigger than you.

I still think McGhee is solid in Pass Pro, I totally agree that KM has the better hands but he has dropped a couple easy ones coming out of the back field also.

Willis is the better power runner and has better vision, that might be the thing that gives him the nod in the coaches eyes but it depends on how he practices and his health.

KM is probably the best RB in space but he hasn't been explosive in the pass game recently.

I would like to see one of our backs take one 60, 50 or even 40 to the house.

theAPAOps5
12-18-2012, 08:32 PM
What is KM's status? He was getting worked on and didn't return to the last game.

I really think they should limit KM's touches to about 20 just to keep him healthy.

Per John Fox, "There were no injuries in the game"

Heyneck
12-18-2012, 08:36 PM
I cant remember where I read it... but the last 4 games, the only player to have more all purpose yards among running backs is AP. Think about that for a second.

Mile High Salute
12-18-2012, 08:39 PM
Hypothetically, if KM were to continue his ways of running well, good blocking and great ball security, and if we made it to the AFC Championship game, if WM were healthy at that point, do you still start KM or do you start WM?

Having them both healthy and suited up will be a very awesome 1 - 2 punch, but who would you start and give more reps to?

For me, if KM doesn't fumble this entire time and is productive, I gotta say you keep KM as the starter. Love to bring WM in for 10 plays, maybe give Hillman 4 or 5 touches but I don't think I would start WM. That's my view. What's yours?

I think you play both (assuming Willis is healthy). It will be nice not having much dropoff whenever Willis comes out for one of his "breathers", and vice versa. The dropoff between those two and everyone else on the roster is staggering.

extralife
12-18-2012, 08:40 PM
They'd both play, but you're not messing up the starting lineup when you get to the AFC Championship game. I'd expect Moreno to get something like 75% of the carries. I wouldn't want to see Hillman on the field at all.

ZONA
12-18-2012, 08:41 PM
Per John Fox, "There were no injuries in the game"

I saw a trainer stretching his back but when he was done Moreno popped right up and the expression on his face was not of discouragement or pain. He looked fine. I think the main reason he wasn't back in the game was because it was in the bag. No sense in risking him with the game pretty much locked up.

I just think it's going to be awesome if we make it to the AFC Championship game and getting WM back will be nothing but positive for the Broncos. Having both those guys getting their touches will be good. The both of them competing for playing time will be glorious.

Nwp-Apap
12-18-2012, 08:43 PM
Depends on what Willis does in practice and how healthy he is.

I think if the coaches think he is 100% he starts but in a limited role. I think Willis is better in Blitz pickups. Regardless of who starts both guys will get a lot of touches.

The best thing about KM not sucking is that he is keeping Lance Ball off the field on the O.

I do wonder who will be inactive because Lance plays ST's. I would hate to see Hillman inactive because he is our only home run threat a RB.

Then why did the coaches ask Willis to pass block an average of 3 times a game compared to Moreno's 10 times a game?

Moreno is playing better than McGahee in every facet of the game, especially blitz pick up.

broncswin
12-18-2012, 08:50 PM
Simply put: YES

theAPAOps5
12-18-2012, 08:51 PM
I saw a trainer stretching his back but when he was done Moreno popped right up and the expression on his face was not of discouragement or pain. He looked fine. I think the main reason he wasn't back in the game was because it was in the bag. No sense in risking him with the game pretty much locked up.

I just think it's going to be awesome if we make it to the AFC Championship game and getting WM back will be nothing but positive for the Broncos. Having both those guys getting their touches will be good. The both of them competing for playing time will be glorious.

But per John Fox there were no injuries. I saw it too and he also said to the trainer I am good. He grabbed his helmet and went to go back in but Hilman had gotten the yards and they just kept him out.

Mogulseeker
12-18-2012, 09:12 PM
Hillman loses the weight/height differential and seems to have no upper body strength which is not good when your trying to block or get in the way of someone bigger than you.

I still think McGhee is solid in Pass Pro, I totally agree that KM has the better hands but he has dropped a couple easy ones coming out of the back field also.

Willis is the better power runner and has better vision, that might be the thing that gives him the nod in the coaches eyes but it depends on how he practices and his health.

KM is probably the best RB in space but he hasn't been explosive in the pass game recently.

I would like to see one of our backs take one 60, 50 or even 40 to the house.

WM also dropped a 4th down pass and fumbled in the RedZone against NE. If we have a top-form Moreno in the backfield against NE, then we beat the Pats.

Mogulseeker
12-18-2012, 09:14 PM
I dont understand the Moreno vitriol. I've heard the arguments and they aren't holding any water.... Moreno, in his rejuvenated state, is the best back we have.

baja
12-18-2012, 09:14 PM
wtf?

knowshown is always a liability in pass protection

Actually that is one of his strong points

swaiy
12-18-2012, 09:21 PM
Keep moving those goal posts haters... Damn shame.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-18-2012, 09:23 PM
Depends which 3 of McGhee's games you take, he has 3 100 yard games this year, KM has 4 in his entire career.

If anything they are starting to look like the same type of back now that KM got the message.

I think they are pretty similar, but if we can only use these four games as evidence, I'd prefer Moreno. I dont see why they would be a great 1-2 punch when they essentially have the same style.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-18-2012, 09:28 PM
I wish someone asked this question six weeks ago. That would have made for a fun thread to look back on

broncosteven
12-18-2012, 09:29 PM
I saw a trainer stretching his back but when he was done Moreno popped right up and the expression on his face was not of discouragement or pain. He looked fine. I think the main reason he wasn't back in the game was because it was in the bag. No sense in risking him with the game pretty much locked up.

I just think it's going to be awesome if we make it to the AFC Championship game and getting WM back will be nothing but positive for the Broncos. Having both those guys getting their touches will be good. The both of them competing for playing time will be glorious.

I agree with the bold part

swaiy
12-18-2012, 09:30 PM
I think they are pretty similar, but if we can only use these four games as evidence, I'd prefer Moreno. I dont see why they would be a great 1-2 punch when they essentially have the same style.



Because when 1 comes out, you dont give away anything. When Hillman comes in, he isn't the rest runner between tacklers nor is he the best pass protector. Im not saying he cant eventually do these things but if Moreno and McGahee are so similar, how does the other team know what's coming?

broncosteven
12-18-2012, 09:31 PM
WM also dropped a 4th down pass and fumbled in the RedZone against NE. If we have a top-form Moreno in the backfield against NE, then we beat the Pats.

Well aware of that, I was just pointing out the fact that KM hasn't been as lights out in the passing game as we all thought he would be. I still think in space he is the better back.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-18-2012, 09:35 PM
Because when 1 comes out, you dont give away anything. When Hillman comes in, he isn't the rest runner between tacklers nor is he the best pass protector. Im not saying he cant eventually do these things but if Moreno and McGahee are so similar, how does the other team know what's coming?

Good point. I do like the speed Hillman brings, though I guess he doesnt display it a ton, nor do they even try to stretch the D with it. There's not room for all three to be active because none play ST. I'm happy to see Hester out there instead of ball though

Archer81
12-18-2012, 09:41 PM
I like our RB situation. Moreno keeps playing well, why take out the hot hand?

:Broncos:

R-Mac
12-18-2012, 09:44 PM
I think so. McGahee will need time to return to football shape and his issues with ball security must be contained during the playoffs.

BroncoMan4ever
12-18-2012, 09:48 PM
wtf?

knowshown is always a liability in pass protection

What are you talking about? The reason he went from inactive to starter was because of his work in pass protection

BroncoMan4ever
12-18-2012, 09:51 PM
Fox prefers vets, sometimes to a fault... why do you think Brooking is stil Mike?

Because once he took over as MIKE the defense hit its stride; and you don't **** with what works. His leadership and inteligence are a plus and regardless of what DJ lovers believe he isn't a better option at MIKE.

Popps
12-18-2012, 09:53 PM
I'm not sure why we're talking about "100 yard games." Moreno was rarely used as an every-down, feature back. Now that he is, he's showing the ability to put up 100 yard games.

WM and KM have the same YPC career average.

When asked, Orlando Franklin said they're very similar runners.

Both are talented, both excel in different ways. Both can pick up blitzers. The main issue is KM staying on the field.

I do think if WM came back at some point, he'd take back-up reps to start if KM keeps up this pace.

What a great problem to have.

Taco John
12-18-2012, 10:04 PM
When we are in the playoffs, we stick to what is working. Right now, Moreno is working. That may or may not be the case when the playoffs come around. Whatever happens, I trust Fox and crew to make the right decision here. Pretty damn happy that I can say that without reservation.

SoCalBronco
12-18-2012, 10:13 PM
I think at the least, WM will take the larger role in the RZ and especially Goalline as he is better there and there is a notable difference in our RZ production without him, but if KM keeps playing well overall, they may stick with the hot hand between the 20s.

lonestar
12-18-2012, 10:15 PM
Fox prefers vets, sometimes to a fault... why do you think Brooking is stil Mike?

Because brooking is a mike and Dj is a dumb ass.

BTW all are veterans.

lonestar
12-18-2012, 10:18 PM
I dont understand the Moreno vitriol. I've heard the arguments and they aren't holding any water.... Moreno, in his rejuvenated state, is the best back we have.

How about this Moreno will no longer be fresh by then. And Willis will be.

maven
12-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Hypothetically, if KM were to continue his ways of running well, good blocking and great ball security, and if we made it to the AFC Championship game, if WM were healthy at that point, do you still start KM or do you start WM?

Having them both healthy and suited up will be a very awesome 1 - 2 punch, but who would you start and give more reps to?

For me, if KM doesn't fumble this entire time and is productive, I gotta say you keep KM as the starter. Love to bring WM in for 10 plays, maybe give Hillman 4 or 5 touches but I don't think I would start WM. That's my view. What's yours?

If Moreno helps the team get to the AFC Championship game, you have to start him.

And as you mentioned, it could be a nice 1-2 punch for the playoffs.

swaiy
12-18-2012, 10:24 PM
How about this Moreno will no longer be fresh by then. And Willis will be.

Yeah, fresh off a blown out knee and broken leg.

Heyneck
12-18-2012, 10:24 PM
How about this Moreno will no longer be fresh by then. And Willis will be.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2012/12/tumblr_mf7kn2GubD1ryu20jo1_400.gif

He'll be what? Fresh off an injury? :rofl: Are you serious?

baja
12-18-2012, 10:27 PM
When we are in the playoffs, we stick to what is working. Right now, Moreno is working. That may or may not be the case when the playoffs come around. Whatever happens, I trust Fox and crew to make the right decision here. Pretty damn happy that I can say that without reservation.

So wonderful we can all echo that sentiment without reservation.

That really is a BIG DEAL

baja
12-18-2012, 10:30 PM
If I have to guess as long as Moreno stays healthy Willis will hardly see the field for the rest of this season including playoffs. maybe to spell Knowshon but that's it.

BroncoFox
12-18-2012, 11:45 PM
As long as KM keeps playing like he is, keep starting him imo. I really like WG, but sheesh.. his fumbles made me super nervous. I don't want that come playoffs. Not only is KM playing much harder, less dancing (tho still doing a bit of dancing), he is finishing runs and most important, holding onto the ball. And against Baltimore, they were trying like crazy to strip it.

So.. keep him in until he gives a reason to not have him in.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-18-2012, 11:49 PM
stay the course, dont go changing it up

ScottXray
12-18-2012, 11:58 PM
Fox prefers vets, sometimes to a fault... why do you think Brooking is stil Mike?

Because he s better than Mays and DJ at that position and making line calls
for the defense. My best guess

lonestar
12-19-2012, 12:17 AM
Because he s better than Mays and DJ at that position and making line calls
for the defense. My best guess

Not a guess, a FACT.

huh??
12-19-2012, 12:27 AM
I'd have to wonder if WM might be okay in splitting responsibilities. He's not young anymore and seems to be able to acknowledge that. Much like Champ has said he will change positions when he is no longer competitive enough, WM might be okay in relinquishing a "featured" back role. Injuries suck and splitting the load can help reduce the risk. I'm sure they all want to raise the Lombardi during their careers and will be fine with contributing in whatever capacity necessary.

driver
12-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Rb's have good days and bad days, some are better against a 3-4D than they are a 4-3. The coaches will probably go for a balance between the two. Then go for who's hot that day. IF WM can come back from this latest injury.

Great situation to be in isn't it!:thumbs:

Baba Booey
12-19-2012, 03:55 AM
If Moreno continues to play at a high level, I actually like him better for this offense than McGahee.

broncswin
12-19-2012, 05:52 AM
Breaking news....Willis probably won't even play again this season....source: Broncswin

crush17
12-19-2012, 07:09 AM
What I love the most about Knowshon's elevated play since he's been back is that we've seen less and less of Lance Ball out there. Against the Ravens, he wasn't in the backfield once if I recall correctly.

Broncoman13
12-19-2012, 07:15 AM
I make sure to give Knowshon 20 touches per game and use Willis in short yardage situations. Knowshon has been doing great and seems to get better as the game goes on. Gotta give him the touches to get in a rhythm.

BTW, for those that didn't see him at Georgia, the way he has been carrying the ball lately is exactly how he carried the ball in college. If you look up Knowshon and hurdle, you'll see that he did that several times in college. Surprising it took him this long to get it going in the Pros... but better late than never! He has given himself a second chance. If the Broncos don't resign him, he will get a nice little pay day in the open market. My guess, somewhere around 4 years and $20m.

MABroncoFan
12-19-2012, 07:16 AM
Denver Broncos‏@Denver_Broncos

#Broncos RB @knowshonmoreno has been named the AFC Offensive Player of the Week: http://dbron.co/1ea .

bronco_diesel
12-19-2012, 07:37 AM
I stated this in another post. I think KM has been playing better than WM. KM vision has gotten much better. I still think WM has a slight edge there, but where KM is doing much better is he is not turning the ball over and is a beast after contact. Add to that he is a better pass catching threat.

I think having WM back will be awesome and gives this running game extra juice.

Kaylore
12-19-2012, 07:39 AM
Denver Broncos‏@Denver_Broncos

#Broncos RB @knowshonmoreno has been named the AFC Offensive Player of the Week: http://dbron.co/1ea .

This needs its own thread.


BRB...

Heyneck
12-19-2012, 07:47 AM
What I love the most about Knowshon's elevated play since he's been back is that we've seen less and less of Lance Ball out there. Against the Ravens, he wasn't in the backfield once if I recall correctly.

Inactive. Hester took his spot on the active roster.

crush17
12-19-2012, 08:03 AM
Inactive. Hester took his spot on the active roster.

Makes sense thanks for clarifying!