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View Full Version : Is Trindon Holliday worth the risk?


Armchair Bronco
12-17-2012, 01:30 AM
Given his inability to hold on to the ball, I see Tindon Holliday more as a situational returner.

The guy coughed it up TWICE against the Ravens and was only saved by lucky bounces.

I love it when a returner can break a game open, but until Holliday learns how to hold on to the rock, I wouldn't automatically have him lining up to be our go-to return guy.

I'd rather have someone like Darrien "Flash" Gordon tearing it up on returns or kickoffs compared to Trindon "I Got Greased Up At a Holiday Inn" Holliday.

The Joker
12-17-2012, 02:22 AM
Yes he's worth the risk, but I definitely hold my breath every time the ball is in his hands.

Archer81
12-17-2012, 02:35 AM
There is a reason he is not in Houston anymore. But we should keep him. He might fumble. Or he might go 100 yards for a kickoff return.

Risk/reward. And thus far its been mostly reward.

:Broncos:

ol#7
12-17-2012, 03:18 AM
When the Ravens kicked it to Holliday rather than trying an early onsides, I commented that they were probably banking on him fumbling...right before he fumbled. Too bad they have literally no other dangerous option in the return game.

Agamemnon
12-17-2012, 06:16 AM
The kid just needs to be coached up.

Lolad
12-17-2012, 06:20 AM
I think he's more used to running track without a football in his hands. He isn't getting stripped... his mind has not gotten around to the fact that he has a pigskin in his hands.

canadianbroncosfan
12-17-2012, 06:36 AM
There is a reason he is not in Houston anymore. But we should keep him. He might fumble. Or he might go 100 yards for a kickoff return.

Risk/reward. And thus far its been mostly reward.

:Broncos:

This.

TheChamp24
12-17-2012, 06:51 AM
The second "fumble" he was down when the ball came out.

But geez, the guy has two touchdowns this year and a lot more very good returns setting up great field position for us. He's a weapon, I think its ridiculous questioning him IMO.

TonyR
12-17-2012, 06:54 AM
I'm hoping for a compromise on Holliday. In the playoffs, don't let him field punts inside the 20. Put Leonhard back there in those situations.

Requiem
12-17-2012, 06:58 AM
Just give him some of that stick 'em they use on that kids hands in Little Giants and he will be good to go!

orinjkrush
12-17-2012, 07:01 AM
aren't they using Leonard when it absolutely positively needs to be held on to?

and Doc Holiday when a return is promising?

CEH
12-17-2012, 07:41 AM
I'm hoping for a compromise on Holliday. In the playoffs, don't let him field punts inside the 20. Put Leonhard back there in those situations.

21 straight games with a turnover and could have been 22

Yes Denver needs to minimize the risk of turnover in the playoffs.

A turnover by Holliday would have to be negated by a return for TD or inside the opp 10. It would be hard for Holliday to make up for any miscue in the playoff so why even go there

Armchair Bronco
12-17-2012, 07:51 AM
The second "fumble" he was down when the ball came out.

But geez, the guy has two touchdowns this year and a lot more very good returns setting up great field position for us. He's a weapon, I think its ridiculous questioning him IMO.

I'm not "questionning" him, I'm just saying if the game is on the line and Trindon would be lining up at the Denver 5 yards line, Coach Fox might think twice about having him take the punt.

John "I Am The Most Conservative Coach Ever" Fox might just say: "Screw it, I want someone else back there on THIS particular play....Trindon, sit your ass down on the pine, we're putting [BLANK] in there instead!"

crush17
12-17-2012, 09:08 AM
Mr. Christmas has been pivotal in many games this season. His returns have helped the team win games. So the answer is emphatically YES, he is worth it.

NFLBRONCO
12-17-2012, 09:33 AM
Our ST's sucked for years. I love holliday here even though his fumbling might lose us a game. It adds excitement to our ST's. Let's go back to 2 yd returns or less like before NOT.

CEH
12-17-2012, 09:49 AM
Our ST's sucked for years. I love holliday here even though his fumbling might lose us a game. It adds excitement to our ST's. Let's go back to 2 yd returns or less like before NOT.

Paul, In previous years you are not giving the ball back to PMF. Take your pick a safe 2 yard return and PMF gets the ball or a potential for a big play or a fumble and take the ball out of PMF's hands. Ask SF how that worked out for them last year. If we are going to win or lose I want to do it at the hand of Manning

To each his own I guess

outdoor_miner
12-17-2012, 10:47 AM
The second "fumble" he was down when the ball came out.

He is scary (in both good and bad ways) out there, but this should be noted too. He really only fumbled once yesterday. Also, it is obvious that opposing teams are now very afraid of him. They are punting to keep the ball out of his hands, which helps with overall field position. I think it is worth it, but he just can't turn the ball over.

Pendejo
12-17-2012, 10:51 AM
Trindon Holliday is absolutely worth the risk.

(Edit: 30 Helens agree.)

BroncoMan4ever
12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
Given his inability to hold on to the ball, I see Tindon Holliday more as a situational returner.

The guy coughed it up TWICE against the Ravens and was only saved by lucky bounces.

I love it when a returner can break a game open, but until Holliday learns how to hold on to the rock, I wouldn't automatically have him lining up to be our go-to return guy.

I'd rather have someone like Darrien "Flash" Gordon tearing it up on returns or kickoffs compared to Trindon "I Got Greased Up At a Holiday Inn" Holliday.
He is situational on returns currently. But his speed and ability is too much to replace him. You can guarantee he will get lots of reps fielding punts the rest of the season and especially the offseason

lolcopter
12-17-2012, 11:12 AM
No risk, no reward
Go big or go home
Scared money don't make money
Etc etc etc

Yes, without a doubt

maven
12-17-2012, 11:16 AM
No risk, no reward
Go big or go home
Scared money don't make money
Etc etc etc

Yes, without a doubt

Play to win the game! He had a nice return on one of the plays. He's a weapon back there.

DomCasual
12-17-2012, 11:17 AM
This offseason, they just need to put him on an aggressive steroid regimen.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-17-2012, 11:54 AM
He is situational. if its an obvious fair catch sitch, leonhard takes them

B-Large
12-17-2012, 12:06 PM
Well worth the risk to have a gamebreaker like that on the team.

A guy I would LOVE to see the Broncos pick up int he offseason is Leodis McKelvin. Maybe one of the best kick retuners in the game, also a pretty solid corner. I don't see Buffalo resigning him, he will be worth a look... nice to have a versitile guy like that on the team

baja
12-17-2012, 12:18 PM
I say give him mechanical finger extensions with a death grip function.

Mountain Bronco
12-17-2012, 01:10 PM
He is a little guy and I just wonder if that has anything to do with it. Smaller hands, arms etc... = lesser grip on the ball?

rbackfactory80
12-24-2012, 07:59 AM
Starting to think not. You can't drop a ball back there every game. I know he wasn't the only one with problems but he seems like the type of guy who will make a dumb decision and try to beat the patriots by himself on a really risky return situation. He has to be the talk of the Fox and company going into the playoffs.

CEH
12-24-2012, 08:39 AM
6 fumbles in 10 games is not a good ratio.

I love the Andrew Luck quote "You can't go broke making a profit"

Giving PFM posession of the ball has to be seen as a profit.
Sorry but at this point Holliday has the "yips". He can't be back there in the playoffs.

broncs2bowl
12-24-2012, 08:51 AM
We have to keep the guy active!!!!

He has never lost a game in the NFL

Pony Boy
12-24-2012, 09:07 AM
Houston .... we have a problem ......... also

Hulamau
12-24-2012, 09:35 AM
I say use him cautiously but during the next few weeks tie the Mother****er down and pour honey over him and let the ants crawl all over him while he is forced to watch ...with his eyelids taped open ... videos of him looking to run before he catches the damn ball and coughing it up while listening to chants 'Trindon is a dummy with greasy hands' until he grips that thing like a high gauss magnet!

Then in the offseason make him walk around with the ball at ALL times .. even in the showers .. where every player and personnel at Dove Valley tries to strip him, including the secretaries, until this kid GETS IT!

He's obviously deficient in working brain cells so we have to go the Pavlov's dog route and drill it into his subconscious .. 'I will not fumble the Damn Ball'.

If after all that he still drops the rock on a regular basis, even if its not often recovered by the other team, we got to cut our loses and move on. But the kid has too much native talent and potential to cut him now without a strong and sustained effort to coach him up and retrain what synaptic neurons he has functioning as it is.

strafen
12-24-2012, 09:48 AM
He's fumbled 7 times, we recovered 6 of them... (It may have been 5 out of 6, can't recall the exact stat)
Had he lost most of them, we wouldn't have the record we have; heck, I don't think he would even be on the team. Those are momentum changing plays!
I'd say can his ass, he ain't worth the risk

DarkHorse30
12-24-2012, 09:50 AM
I agree that he needs coaching. Several times he has failed to call for a fair catch when it was warranted, including v. the Browns.

So...didn't "surehands" Leonard fumble a fair catch?

And....didn't Josh Cribbs (who would NEVER be benched) catch one with his facemask, yesterday?

Risk/reward....coach him up, keep him in

Beantown Bronco
12-24-2012, 10:00 AM
even in the showers .. where every player and personnel at Dove Valley tries to strip him, including the secretaries,

Wait a sec. You're telling the secretaries that they have to strip him in the shower?!? Well, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

NFLBRONCO
12-24-2012, 11:20 AM
Our ST's were worst in league forever. While I see everyone's point I can't say just dump him that easily. He has made our ST's alot better. Maybe only kickoffs and Midfield ST's.

ZONA
12-24-2012, 12:09 PM
Wait a sec. You're telling the secretaries that they have to strip him in the shower?!? Well, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

This isn't 1960, not all secretaries are female you know.

I think you keep using the guy. If it's a rainy or snowy day, ok, maybe not. I betcha the kid make a few huge plays in the playoffs. In the playoffs I think the Broncos will use him early in games and when they have a lead. If the game is tight and nearing the end of the game, you probably see Leonard.

UberBroncoMan
12-24-2012, 12:33 PM
Fox said in his interview today that, "he's the 10th leading punt returner in the NFL so I don't think we'll be sending him off."

Coaching him up it is.

ZONA
12-24-2012, 12:56 PM
Fox said in his interview today that, "he's the 10th leading punt returner in the NFL so I don't think we'll be sending him off."

Coaching him up it is.

Huge difference between styles. Fox is more of a build your confidence coach. Josh Mcdaniels, well, nuff said.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tkzALAmawfY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lonestar
12-24-2012, 01:31 PM
Huge difference between styles. Fox is more of a build your confidence coach. Josh Mcdaniels, well, nuff said.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tkzALAmawfY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

well in fairness of this rant he is talking to moreno, polumbus and orton among others I am not able to tell who they are..

TheReverend
12-24-2012, 01:36 PM
Yes

hambone13
12-24-2012, 02:15 PM
Starting to think not. You can't drop a ball back there every game. I know he wasn't the only one with problems but he seems like the type of guy who will make a dumb decision and try to beat the patriots by himself on a really risky return situation. He has to be the talk of the Fox and company going into the playoffs.

I think he just needs more experience and coaching, which will bring him more game time esteem. With confidence and experience comes great things when aligned with talent. I think it's a no-brainer to keep him around. He'll get scooped up in a heartbeat if we were to let him go.

hambone13
12-24-2012, 02:20 PM
Yes

:rofl: You've really refined your ranting capabilities since you've become a published author but it doesn't have as much comedic value. Seek balance.

DenverBroncosJM
12-24-2012, 02:33 PM
I agree that he needs coaching. Several times he has failed to call for a fair catch when it was warranted, including v. the Browns.

So...didn't "surehands" Leonard fumble a fair catch?

And....didn't Josh Cribbs (who would NEVER be benched) catch one with his facemask, yesterday?

Risk/reward....coach him up, keep him in

Cribbs has 6 fumbles and like 4 lost. It's risk/reward people seem to have a problem with the risk but then bitch when Jim " I'm Slow" L. Is the only returner on the team.

TheReverend
12-24-2012, 02:34 PM
:rofl: You've really refined your ranting capabilities since you've become a published author but it doesn't have as much comedic value. Seek balance.

Very unrelated.

When the rant is worthwhile, it'll be there. For now we're winning and there's less blind idiocy to argue with.

hambone13
12-24-2012, 02:43 PM
Very unrelated.

When the rant is worthwhile, it'll be there. For now we're winning and there's less blind idiocy to argue with.

Not true leather nuts. It's related to valuable entertainment and good discussion promotion. Your racy rants provide both. And yes, I know what I'm doing here with the dis-logic.

Armchair Bronco
12-24-2012, 03:08 PM
My concern is that this has been a problem from Day 1, yet if anything he is regressing, not progressing.

By contrast, look at how Knowshon hugs the ball when he hits the line. Moreno has obviously completely changed how he holds on to the rock, and it show. But Trindon is, well, still Trindon.

Any coaching must go in one ear and straight out the other. I do not have a good feeling about him.

bombay
12-24-2012, 03:23 PM
Didn't Leonard cough one up yesterday?

Jesterhole
12-24-2012, 04:27 PM
There is a reason a guy as talented as him was on the streets. We've been playing with fire with him back there, and have been lucky than none of his fumbles have cost of yet.

All that will change in the playoffs, where every possession matters.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-24-2012, 04:32 PM
In the playoffs, the odds of him muffing or fumbling is greater than him running one to the house. Far greater.

uplink
12-24-2012, 04:47 PM
You've got to roll the dice to win it all, he could be the difference in a game vs. the Pats, Texans, or in the SBowl

SonOfLe-loLang
12-24-2012, 04:55 PM
My gut says continue to play him.

CEH
12-24-2012, 05:10 PM
You've got to roll the dice to win it all, he could be the difference in a game vs. the Pats, Texans, or in the SBowl

Yes that is what we are all sayin

It's just what side of the fence you are on.

baja
12-24-2012, 07:03 PM
You gotta ask yourself is his potential to cost you a game greater than his potential to win a game.

I think he is one of the most exciting players on the team but he is a huge liability.

His potential to cost a game is too high.

I do like the creative way they are using him by not letting him receive kicks deep in our territory

strafen
12-24-2012, 07:07 PM
There is a reason a guy as talented as him was on the streets. We've been playing with fire with him back there, and have been lucky than none of his fumbles have cost of yet.

All that will change in the playoffs, where every possession matters.What people don't realiza or have a clue about it, is that Houston coached him and worked with him, before they cut him.
There was a reason for it...
Why would it be any different in Denver?
The guy got isssues and moving from one city to another will not fix his issues.
To Houston the risk wasn't worth it, to Denver and his fans, apparently the risk of losing a play-off game by muffing a punt inside our own 5-yard line is worth the risk...

KevinJames
12-24-2012, 07:07 PM
I find it more scary that old jim is muffing punts when thats his only damn job.

TheChamp24
12-24-2012, 07:28 PM
Has he cost us a game?
No
Has he helped win games?
Yes

When he ceases to be able to help win games, he won't be worth the risk.

Cleo McDowell
12-24-2012, 07:57 PM
In the playoffs, the odds of him muffing or fumbling is greater than him running one to the house. Far greater.

Who is making these odds? Please explain.

broncogary
12-24-2012, 08:05 PM
Who is making these odds? Please explain.

Well, he's got six fumbles and two touchdowns.

errand
12-24-2012, 08:21 PM
I'm hoping for a compromise on Holliday. In the playoffs, don't let him field punts inside the 20. Put Leonhard back there in those situations.

In fairness to Holliday...Leonhard fumbled a punt too.

KipCorrington25
12-24-2012, 09:11 PM
I think you pick your spots, times in the game and field position. When you have Manning you want possesions but if he's not down at the 10 there are times to try and pop a punt return, otherwise have Leonhard fair catch.

Kick offs I'd always utilize him.

errand
12-24-2012, 09:14 PM
For his career, Holliday has touched 66 punts (48 returns, 13 FC's and 5 fumbles)

He's fumbled about 8% of the time over his career, however he's touched a punt 39 times as a Bronco....and has fumbled 10% of the time.

food for thought.

lonestar
12-24-2012, 09:18 PM
In fairness to Holliday...Leonhard fumbled a punt too.

Then Leonard has 8 more fumbles to be even.

errand
12-24-2012, 09:35 PM
Then Leonard has 8 more fumbles to be even.

Not sure what your point is here, but.....

For his career, Leonhard has touched 163 punts in his career (95 returns, 62 Fc's, 6 fumbles) and he's fumbled 3.6% of them

As a Bronco he's touched 27 punts and fumbled 1....and he's fumbled 3.7% of them.

Pretty consistent in my opinion.....ironically, Leonhard has averaged 9.5 yards per for his career....Holliday 10.0

broncocalijohn
12-24-2012, 09:55 PM
Just give him some of that stick 'em they use on that kids hands in Little Giants and he will be good to go!

Cant get that stuff anymore. Chargers bought the rights and have it all at Qualcomm.

lonestar
12-24-2012, 10:01 PM
Not sure what your point is here, but.....

For his career, Leonhard has touched 163 punts in his career (95 returns, 62 Fc's, 6 fumbles) and he's fumbled 3.6% of them

As a Bronco he's touched 27 punts and fumbled 1....and he's fumbled 3.7% of them.

Pretty consistent in my opinion.....ironically, Leonhard has averaged 9.5 yards per for his career....Holliday 10.0


Thanks for taking the time to look them up and posting the stats.

I do not care about career stats.. I care about Bronco stats. I also believe that John and John do too..

IMO Holiday better get some ball security or he will be gone..

I love the excitement he brings to the field, but champions do not get the luxury of making mistakes on a consistent basis..

ZONA
12-24-2012, 10:10 PM
What people don't realiza or have a clue about it, is that Houston coached him and worked with him, before they cut him.
There was a reason for it...
Why would it be any different in Denver?
The guy got isssues and moving from one city to another will not fix his issues.
To Houston the risk wasn't worth it, to Denver and his fans, apparently the risk of losing a play-off game by muffing a punt inside our own 5-yard line is worth the risk...

So with that logic, every player that has been released by another team can't be any good. By the same token, Houston did release they guy but he was off the street and on another team before you could blink an eye. I guess there is a reason for that as well. You're never going to eliminate all turnovers. A turnover is a turnover no matter how you slice it up. A lost fumble off a muff, an INT in the endzone, they all are the same. There's a reason he is on the field. He's a huge threat. A game changing type of threat. When he takes another kick to the house, I suspect you won't see as many people complaining. If he loses a fumble, you do the same thing you would do if it was your RB who fumbled, or your QB who threw a pick six, or your CB who played the wrong coverage and gave up an easy long TD. You coach them up the best you can but you have to roll the guys out there that are difference makers in this league. You can't simply play it safe all the time or the chances of winning go way down. That is my opinion of course, somebody else is entitled to their own. Now this is the part where clowns like ACTION will take a snipet of what I said and make it look something like this "A QB who throws a INT, are you an idiot, you're saying Manning sucks because he throws an INT here and there. You're saying Holliday is just as important to this team as Manning"......well something along those lines anyway.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-24-2012, 11:18 PM
Who is making these odds? Please explain.

Vegas.

How many times has he muffed or fumbled? And how many times has he ran it all the way back? Several posters have produced stats for this in this thread

SonOfLe-loLang
12-25-2012, 09:10 AM
Plus Houston released him hoping they could resign him for the practice squad. It was a calculated risk

DENVERDUI55
12-25-2012, 09:29 AM
Vegas.

How many times has he muffed or fumbled? And how many times has he ran it all the way back? Several posters have produced stats for this in this thread

What is payout on those odds? I want some action. That can be said for any returner in the NFL. There isn't one that has more tds than muffs/fumbles.

oubronco
12-25-2012, 09:34 AM
Plus Houston released him hoping they could resign him for the practice squad. It was a calculated risk.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-25-2012, 09:49 AM
What is payout on those odds? I want some action. That can be said for any returner in the NFL. There isn't one that has more tds than muffs/fumbles.

I was joking with the Vegas part. But if they make it to the Super Bowl it would not surprise me if they had some kind of bet that involves Holliday fumbling. There's all kinds of random bets. First person to fumble would have some heavy money on holliday

Bacchus
12-25-2012, 09:55 AM
Plus Houston released him hoping they could resign him for the practice squad. It was a calculated risk

Both the Colts and Broncos put claims out on him so there was no way that was going to happen.

I was for him as long as he did not fumble the ball. Leonhard is a pretty sure handler back there and I did not want to give up possessions due to fumbles for a few yards extra in returns.

As it stands now Holliday's fumbles have not cost Denver a game. Hopefully we can ride him into the playoffs and he can get a score or two!!

Beantown Bronco
12-25-2012, 10:28 AM
In the playoffs, the odds of him muffing or fumbling is greater than him running one to the house. Far greater.

Percentage of other returners in the NFL you can say this same thing about:

100%.

BroncoBuff
12-25-2012, 10:44 AM
NOT worth the risk for two reasons: 1) This team is solid in nearly every aspect, which makes any high risk-high reward strategy less attractive, and 2) Manning is too good, whatever added yards Holliday averages on returns, Peyton would likely cover with far less risk.

Actually I like him back there, but somebody had to argue the NO point of view.

winstoncup bronco
12-25-2012, 10:52 AM
You hold your breath with him, but I'm betting a return TD is the difference in beating the Patriots.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-25-2012, 11:00 AM
Percentage of other returners in the NFL you can say this same thing about:

100%.

Yes. But what's the percentage of Holliday from the other returners? In the opportunities on punts I've seen Holliday muff or fumble more than most returners in the league. It's why he lost his job once already.


He's got positives such as running it back 15-20 yards or so. Improving field positions. But I can just see him at the 25 yard line muffing a punt in the playoffs. That type of error will send your team straight home.

lonestar
12-25-2012, 11:54 AM
Yes. But what's the percentage of Holliday from the other returners? In the opportunities on punts I've seen Holliday muff or fumble more than most returners in the league. It's why he lost his job once already.


He's got positives such as running it back 15-20 yards or so. Improving field positions. But I can just see him at the 25 yard line muffing a punt in the playoffs. That type of error will send your team straight home.

:thumbs: stuff you can overcome playing average teams are way harder to do against the elite teams you mostly see in the playoffs.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-25-2012, 11:58 AM
:thumbs: stuff you can overcome playing average teams are way harder to do against the elite teams you mostly see in the playoffs.

Exactly. Need to look no further back than last years Niners playoff game and the results from their returners mistakes

ZONA
12-25-2012, 12:10 PM
Both the Colts and Broncos put claims out on him so there was no way that was going to happen.

I was for him as long as he did not fumble the ball. Leonhard is a pretty sure handler back there and I did not want to give up possessions due to fumbles for a few yards extra in returns.

As it stands now Holliday's fumbles have not cost Denver a game. Hopefully we can ride him into the playoffs and he can get a score or two!!

A few extra yards? Well of course they would not have a guy back there who only gets you a few extra yards. Holliday has almost 600 combined return yards this year with 4TD's. Let me say that again. 600 yards and 4 TD's. Not exactly "a few extra yards". There's no question he fumbles too often. But I think a few of those fumbles were not lagit. One I know of he was already down by contact and then the ball came free but they still counted it as a fumble.

lonestar
12-25-2012, 12:10 PM
Exactly. Need to look no further back than last years Niners playoff game and the results from their returners mistakes

Mistakes period kill drives and lead to good teams taking advantage of them.

Who wins the TURN over battle will most likely win the games from this point on.

Most of these teams we see in the playoff are all at the same skill levels through out their teams.

So little things like field position will be critical. Giving any team from this point on a short field could be a back breaker. Make them start drives inside their 15 and odds are they ae not going sustain it to score. Give it to them on your 15 and pray you can hold them to a FG.

DENVERDUI55
12-25-2012, 12:34 PM
A few extra yards? Well of course they would not have a guy back there who only gets you a few extra yards. Holliday has almost 600 combined return yards this year with 4TD's. Let me say that again. 600 yards and 4 TD's. Not exactly "a few extra yards". There's no question he fumbles too often. But I think a few of those fumbles were not lagit. One I know of he was already down by contact and then the ball came free but they still counted it as a fumble.

4 TD's? I thought he had 1 punt and 1 kick return? Did he have 2 for Houston you are counting? He is a must have and has not been in a losing game this year. He is 15-0.

lonestar
12-25-2012, 01:26 PM
4 TD's? I thought he had 1 punt and 1 kick return? Did he have 2 for Houston you are counting? He is a must have and has not been in a losing game this year. He is 15-0.

according to this 2 TDs total for this kid..

Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Long TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM
TOTAL 16 2 17 -- 1.1 15 0 0 0 1 0
2012 DEN 10 2 17 8.5 1.7 15 0 0 0 1 0
2012 HOU 5 -- -- -- 0 -- -- -- -- -- --
2011 HOU 1 -- -- -- 0 -- -- -- -- -- --
Kick Return G Ret Yds Avg Lng TD 20+ 40+ FC FUM
TOTAL 16 21 552 -- 105 1 11 3 0 1
2012 DEN 10 11 358 32.5 105T 1 7 3 0 1
2012 HOU 5 10 194 19.4 30 0 4 0 0 0
2011 HOU 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Punt ReturnG Ret RetY Avg Lng TD 20+ 40+ FC FUM
TOTAL 16 48 481 -- 76 1 7 2 13 5
2012 DEN 10 31 334 10.8 76T 1 6 2 4 4
2012 HOU 5 16 147 9.2 36 0 1 0 6 1
2011 HOU 1 1 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 3 0
Fumbles G FUM Lost FF OWN FR OPP FR OWN YDS OPP YDS TD OOB Sfty TB
TOTAL 16 6 1 -- -- -- -- -- 0 2 0 0
2012 DEN 10 5 1 -- -- -- -- -- 0 1 0 0
2012 HOU 5 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 0 0
2011

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Trindon-Holliday/cbf053e0-b7c5-46fc-b5be-8081a100d376

you are correct..

ZONA
12-25-2012, 01:46 PM
4 TD's? I thought he had 1 punt and 1 kick return? Did he have 2 for Houston you are counting? He is a must have and has not been in a losing game this year. He is 15-0.

You're right, I read that wrong. Got thrown off by the 2TM thing. He has 2 TD's in regular season, he had 3 TD's returned in the preseason and he has almost 700 return yards, not almost 600.

We can debate all this but the coaches have him back there and keep giving him chance because just that chance at a big play is worth it. Obviously they try to minimize the risk by not letting him on the field when we're receiving punts back around our 20 yard line or when we will almost certainly "fair catch" the ball. But with almost 700 yards, divide that by 15 games and you come up with almost 50 yards per game. Those are important yards.

strafen
12-25-2012, 02:23 PM
Has he cost us a game?
No
Has he helped win games?
Yes

When he ceases to be able to help win games, he won't be worth the risk.By then it might be too late, no?

You make me laugh hard by the senseless logic you're using.
You know that at play-off time, it will take a single muffed punt to cost us a game to be enough to send us packing until next season, right?
If there's a wrong time for Trindon to cost us a game, is precisely during the next couple of weeks or so...

KevinJames
12-25-2012, 03:18 PM
Not sure what your point is here, but.....

For his career, Leonhard has touched 163 punts in his career (95 returns, 62 Fc's, 6 fumbles) and he's fumbled 3.6% of them

As a Bronco he's touched 27 punts and fumbled 1....and he's fumbled 3.7% of them.

Pretty consistent in my opinion.....ironically, Leonhard has averaged 9.5 yards per for his career....Holliday 10.0

Hes actually muffed 2 punts so far since we signed holliday.

ZONA
12-25-2012, 06:47 PM
By then it might be too late, no?

You make me laugh hard by the senseless logic you're using.
You know that at play-off time, it will take a single muffed punt to cost us a game to be enough to send us packing until next season, right?
If there's a wrong time for Trindon to cost us a game, is precisely during the next couple of weeks or so...

Why does it make you laugh so hard? He's using the same logic as the coaches for the Broncos are using. The simple fact we've seen Holliday on the field should show you that his logic is not senseless. If you're going to use the theory that 1 muffed punt could cost us then we'll use the theory that 1 long return might save us. It goes both ways dude. And obviously the Broncos share that same thought and that's why Holliday is playing.

lonestar
12-25-2012, 07:02 PM
Overall I think he is a hell of a weapon. I doubt we will see him much in the playoffs unless the punt is from their end zone and it gives us instant filed position EVEN if he puts it on the ground we are not backed up on our goal line.

Now next year he will get loads of action especially after the off season bulking him up in the upper body strength area.
I have always said I think we are a year away from winning it all. Way to many kiddies on the team with youth comes lack of experience and that is what will kill us over the next few weeks.

We are no longer playing the chargers, raiders, or chefs that will account for almost half of our victories this year. We are going to be playing the big and the bad NFL real teams and they take no prisoners.
I do not think we are quite there yet. Hope we are and I'm wrong.

razorwire77
12-30-2012, 01:27 PM
Holliday is inactive today.

I know he was dinged up, but is this entirely injury related?

Bacchus
12-30-2012, 01:53 PM
Holliday is inactive today.

I know he was dinged up, but is this entirely injury related?

Yeah, he did not practice Thursday.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-30-2012, 01:55 PM
He was doubtful. Not a surprise

fontaine
12-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Yes, let's get rid of talented young players that have a technical issue or ball security problem that hasn't cost us yet.

Yeah, that's the way to build a franchise, because coaches shouldn't really, have to, you know, coach players.

lonestar
12-30-2012, 02:24 PM
Yes, let's get rid of talented young players that have a technical issue or ball security problem that hasn't cost us yet.

Yeah, that's the way to build a franchise, because coaches shouldn't really, have to, you know, coach players.

He needs coaching and experience on when to make those runs and when to fair catch. Also ball security and that all comes with TIME and reps. By the end of TC next year we will know whether tomfish or cut bait.

strafen
12-30-2012, 05:29 PM
Was Trindon hurt?
I didn't see him on the field today...

kappys
12-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Was Trindon hurt?
I didn't see him on the field today...

Inactive - ankle