Another tragedy at an elementary school

[Bob]

This one is from China, very sad stuff...

On 14 December 2012 between 7 and 8 a.m. local time, a 36-year-old villager identified as Min Yingjun (Chinese: 闵应军) stabbed 23 people, including 22 children and an elderly woman, in a knife attack at Chenpeng Village Primary School. The school is situated in Wenshu Township of Guangshan County, which is administrated by the city of Xinyang, 800 km south of Beijing, in the Chinese province of Henan. The children targeted by the knifeman are thought likely to be between six and eleven years of age and the attack occurred as the children were arriving for classes.

[lonestar]

Amazing he did not even use a firearm. Bet they enact knife control laws after this one.

Another nutball. In a different world.

[Kid A]

Amazing he did not even use a firearm. Bet they enact knife control laws after this one.

Another nutball. In a different world.

Yes, he used a knife, likely because a gun is much harder to get in China. And guess what happened? Nobody died. Only 4 serious injuries. If he had easy access to a gun (like most Americans) you would have a lot of fatalities at that Chinese school.

I can't think of a better story to illustrate why the argument that "gun control won't stop crazies from finding other ways to kill" is bull****. Clearly anyone with a brain can realize that guns are 100x more effective killing machines than knives—that's why they were created in the first place. And that's why they should be regulated more heavily than knives.

[cutthemdown]

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

[DenverBrit]

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

That ship sailed a long time ago.

But as I mentioned in another thread, gun owners need to be responsible for their weapons.

What is wrong with them taking responsibility for the security of those weapons?

With kids in the house, guns need to be securely locked up. If there is a 'collection' of guns, a guns safe should be mandatory.

We can't anticipate when lunacy will strike, but we can make sure we don't make weapons easily available when it does.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

They've already did with assault rifle bans. That did nothing.

All mass murders happen in gun free zones.

[ant1999e]

Yes, he used a knife, likely because a gun is much harder to get in China. And guess what happened? Nobody died. Only 4 serious injuries. If he had easy access to a gun (like most Americans) you would have a lot of fatalities at that Chinese school.

I can't think of a better story to illustrate why the argument that "gun control won't stop crazies from finding other ways to kill" is bull****. Clearly anyone with a brain can realize that guns are 100x more effective killing machines than knives—that's why they were created in the first place. And that's why they should be regulated more heavily than knives.

If only we could be more like China. What wonderful freedoms they have.

[Kid A]

If only we could be more like China. What wonderful freedoms they have.

Right, pointing out the silliness of lonestar saying knives are equally dangerous as guns was an endorsement of Chinese totalitarianism. ::) There are plenty of western democracies with sane gun control laws in place that could likely make at least a dent in our problems.

You'll likely find that more and more American's will start rolling their eyes when gun nuts default to this same insistence that we can't even talk about gun control because even putting it on the table threatens the entire Constitution. America has (to a fault) surrendered freedoms to protect against terrorism; I think they will prove much more willing to tighten gun access if they think it lowers the risk of their kids getting gunned down at school.

How to effectively do that (or if can even be done effectively) is a fair debate, but acting as though it isn't a reasonable question to raise is insane.

[lonestar]

Yes, he used a knife, likely because a gun is much harder to get in China. And guess what happened? Nobody died. Only 4 serious injuries. If he had easy access to a gun (like most Americans) you would have a lot of fatalities at that Chinese school.

I can't think of a better story to illustrate why the argument that "gun control won't stop crazies from finding other ways to kill" is bull****. Clearly anyone with a brain can realize that guns are 100x more effective killing machines than knives—that's why they were created in the first place. And that's why they should be regulated more heavily than knives.

Do you think the horror of being stabbed will ever be forgotten for that matter seeing classmates will forget it..

If you did not know they are regulated more heavily than knives. Never heard about having to get a FBI background check when going to Macy's or Bed Bath and beyond.

[lonestar]

Right, pointing out the silliness of lonestar saying knives are equally dangerous as guns was an endorsement of Chinese totalitarianism. ::) There are plenty of western democracies with sane gun control laws in place that could likely make at least a dent in our problems.

You'll likely find that more and more American's will start rolling their eyes when gun nuts default to this same insistence that we can't even talk about gun control because even putting it on the table threatens the entire Constitution. America has (to a fault) surrendered freedoms to protect against terrorism; I think they will prove much more willing to tighten gun access if they think it lowers the risk of their kids getting gunned down at school.

How to effectively do that (or if can even be done effectively) is a fair debate, but acting as though it isn't a reasonable question to raise is insane.

Was making a comparison that guns are the only way to kill that you
U seem to beleive.

Where there is a will there is a way. A couple of hand grenades for that matter a few gallons of gas would have done much more damage.

But this post kind of blows your theory out of the water.


They've already did with assault rifle bans. That did nothing.

All mass murders happen in gun free zones.

Had the school allowed conceal carry on campus who knows if anyone but the bad guy would have been killed.

[cutthemdown]

Obamas speach tonight longed for him to come out and say what he wants to do, but he doesn't have the balls to do it.

[Fedaykin]

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

I don't want them to be illegal, but that doesn't mean we don't need to do a better job of keeping them out of the hands of crazies.

We could start with all the loopholes that allow guns to be sold second hand without background checks. Gun shows, auctions, etc.

We'll never stop crazy folks from getting guns -- doesn't mean we shouldn't work to minimize it.

[Kid A]

Obamas speach tonight longed for him to come out and say what he wants to do, but he doesn't have the balls to do it.

How much **** would he have caught for using a nationally televised memorial service for the victim to explicitly talk about gun control? Plus, I think he realizes there is also an aspect of mental health people are talking about. Even I don' think that was the appropriate time or place to start laying out what legal steps he'd like to see put forward.

[cutthemdown]

I don't want them to be illegal, but that doesn't mean we don't need to do a better job of keeping them out of the hands of crazies.

We could start with all the loopholes that allow guns to be sold second hand without background checks. Gun shows, auctions, etc.

We'll never stop crazy folks from getting guns -- doesn't mean we shouldn't work to minimize it.

I live in Calif and tighter rules havent stopped big shootings here. But....I can go along with any background check, reasonable waiting period, and reasonable clip sizes. If all Obama wants to do is that then i agree this would be a stupid time to talk about it. If you want to make a change to the Constitution on guns then i think you would have to talk about it now. All my liberal friends in CA want to start the first state procedures to change the Constitution so maybe I am coming from that environment.

nothing but an outright ban on guns, with a collection of all the guns out there could really end gun violence. i do agree though if you did that obviously we would have less gun deaths. That is a reasonable assumption i think. But none of your gun show this, loopholes that will stop these incidents.

Obviously Obama is using the speach to hint at what he wants, or what he plans. Some sort of gun reform that will be meant to make us feel like the govt trying to keep our kids safe.

[Fedaykin]

I live in Calif and tighter rules havent stopped big shootings here. But....I can go along with any background check, reasonable waiting period, and reasonable clip sizes. If all Obama wants to do is that then i agree this would be a stupid time to talk about it. If you want to make a change to the Constitution on guns then i think you would have to talk about it now. All my liberal friends in CA want to start the first state procedures to change the Constitution so maybe I am coming from that environment.

nothing but an outright ban on guns, with a collection of all the guns out there could really end gun violence. i do agree though if you did that obviously we would have less gun deaths. That is a reasonable assumption i think. But none of your gun show this, loopholes that will stop these incidents.

Obviously Obama is using the speach to hint at what he wants, or what he plans. Some sort of gun reform that will be meant to make us feel like the govt trying to keep our kids safe.

Never said it would stop them entirely, but it will reduce the number of criminals and crazy folks that can get their hands on guns (and make them available to others). Did you just completely miss that?

[lonestar]

Think they should step up and stop government sanctioned gun selling to cartels.

To take responsibility for that them and only then worry about modifying the constitution.

[houghtam]

Think they should step up and stop government sanctioned gun selling to cartels.

I agree. I was against it when Bush started it, and I'm against it while Obama continued it.

[Requiem]

Looks like they need more God in their lives, right?

[Rohirrim]

Unless you are willing to argue that an individual citizen is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment the right to keep anything from a rocket launcher, to a .50 cal auto, to grenades, to atomic weapons (if he can manage to come up with one), then you believe in limitations to the amendment. So where should the line be drawn?

[Meck77]

We need to arm our teachers. It's being proven time and time again that as soon as the response team comes to kill the shooter the shooter turns the gun on himself. Look at the mall shooting in Oregon. The moment a citizen pulled a gun out the shooter shot himself. The citizen didn't even have to fire a shot!

The argument that the police won't know who the shooter is if teachers are walking around schools with guns is bogus also. A good guy will always put his gun down quickly.

20 children shot up in a locked room is ****ing BS. The principal or one of the other teachers could have wasted the bastard within a minute. Instead the a-hole had 10 minutes.

I own a ranch in a small community and it's being discussed to arm several of the experienced teachers who are hunters/ranchers and have experience with guns. I'm sure they will have to go under further training (as they should) but if some son of a b**** walks into my community school the second bullet fired might just be one going into the shooters head.

[W*GS]

We need to arm our teachers.

No, we don't.

Why do the RKBA fanatics always provide the "more guns in more hands in more places" canned idiotic response when one of these tragedies occurs?

Should we all be packing all the time everywhere?

[Fedaykin]

We need to arm our teachers. It's being proven time and time again that as soon as the response team comes to kill the shooter the shooter turns the gun on himself.

The only thing that will accomplish is that the psychos will bring more firepower (e.g. bombs, chemicals, vehicles, etc.) into play. We have to address the disease, not just swat at the the symptoms here.

[BroncoBeavis]

The only thing that will accomplish is that the psychos will bring more firepower (e.g. bombs, chemicals, vehicles, etc.) into play. We have to address the disease, not just swat at the the symptoms here.

So long as you see the 'disease' as mental illness, I would agree. Trying to apply criminal sanction and legislation to a person hell-bent on destroying as many lives as possible before his own is only self-defeating feelgoodism.

[Rohirrim]

We need to arm our teachers. It's being proven time and time again that as soon as the response team comes to kill the shooter the shooter turns the gun on himself. Look at the mall shooting in Oregon. The moment a citizen pulled a gun out the shooter shot himself. The citizen didn't even have to fire a shot!

The argument that the police won't know who the shooter is if teachers are walking around schools with guns is bogus also. A good guy will always put his gun down quickly.

20 children shot up in a locked room is ****ing BS. The principal or one of the other teachers could have wasted the bastard within a minute. Instead the a-hole had 10 minutes.

I own a ranch in a small community and it's being discussed to arm several of the experienced teachers who are hunters/ranchers and have experience with guns. I'm sure they will have to go under further training (as they should) but if some son of a b**** walks into my community school the second bullet fired might just be one going into the shooters head.

Give me a break. The Denver cops blew away an old man who was holding a coke can a few years ago. Cell phone? Dead meat. In case you haven't been watching the news, lately, cops are more trigger happy than ever. Some cop in Texas cornered an unarmed suspect after a car chase and shot him 41 times. How many reloads is that? And I'm sure cops get more firearms training than anybody. I doubt the "good guy" would even get the chance to put down his gun.

[Fedaykin]

So long as you see the 'disease' as mental illness, I would agree. Trying to apply criminal sanction and legislation to a person hell-bent on destroying as many lives as possible before his own is only self-defeating feelgoodism.

Mental illness is a huge component, but it's not limited to that. What causes this kind of thing isn't just one thing. In some cases it's mental illness, sure, but not all of the violence in our society is due to mental illness.

[Rohirrim]

Mental illness is a huge component, but it's not limited to that. What causes this kind of thing isn't just one thing. In some cases it's mental illness, sure, but not all of the violence in our society is due to mental illness.

We have to face the facts: Americans have the most violent culture on Earth. There isn't even any debate.

[BroncoBeavis]

Mental illness is a huge component, but it's not limited to that. What causes this kind of thing isn't just one thing. In some cases it's mental illness, sure, but not all of the violence in our society is due to mental illness.

What does that mean? Is it time to go beyond the issue at hand and instead declare a government sponsored "War on Violence?"

[Fedaykin]

What does that mean? Is it time to go beyond the issue at hand and instead declare a government sponsored "War on Violence?"

What the hell are you talking about?

[BroncoBeavis]

What the hell are you talking about?

You seem to be trying to take the issue at hand... a widely-known mentally unstable kid being set loose by society to do as he pleases, with terrible results... into a wider argument about violence of all kinds.

Why?

[Fedaykin]

You seem to be trying to take the issue at hand... a widely-known mentally unstable kid being set loose by society to do as he pleases, with terrible results... into a wider argument about violence of all kinds.

Why?

Because you seemed to want me to clarify what I meant by disease...

You, of course, demonstrated very well what I am talking about when the automatic metaphor for dealing with something you could come up with was... war.

[BroncoBeavis]

Because you seemed to want me to clarify what I meant by disease...

You, of course, demonstrated very well what I am talking about when the automatic metaphor for dealing with something you could come up with was... war.

My "War on" metaphor wasn't really about literal war, fwiw. More about how successful other government programs to end bad things have been up until this point.

[cutthemdown]

We shouldnt arm the teachers but maybe we should arm 1 or 2 teachers. Or the principal etc etc.

[houghtam]

We shouldnt arm the teachers but maybe we should arm 1 or 2 teachers. Or the principal etc etc.

We have a hard enough time finding teachers.

My guess is that a vast majority of teachers would not want to carry a gun into a school.

I'd also bet that a not-insignificant percentage of teachers would refuse to teach in a school that allows its teachers to carry. I know I would, and I can't think of a single person I knew that I graduated college with who would, either.

The Second Amendment gives the right to bear arms. Let's not turn our schools into the Old freaking West. It's bad enough that I have to go out to dinner and see people with big irons on their hip.

[cutthemdown]

We have a hard enough time finding teachers.

My guess is that a vast majority of teachers would not want to carry a gun into a school.

I'd also bet that a not-insignificant percentage of teachers would refuse to teach in a school that allows its teachers to carry. I know I would, and I can't think of a single person I knew that I graduated college with who would, either.

The Second Amendment gives the right to bear arms. Let's not turn our schools into the Old freaking West. It's bad enough that I have to go out to dinner and see people with big irons on their hip.

Besides teachers make too much. An armed guard would be cheaper. Fire the worst teacher at every school and use that money for an armed guard. Send those kids into the other class rooms.

[razorwire77]

We need to arm our teachers.

I'm a high school educator. I grew up in a small town where shooting was a way of life. I've shot pretty much every type of handgun imaginable short of a desert eagle .50 and dozens of rifles and shotguns. The day that we start arming elementary school teachers is the day I look for a new line of work and a new country to raise my family.

[cutthemdown]

I'm a high school educator. I grew up in a small town where shooting was a way of life. I've shot pretty much every type of handgun imaginable short of a desert eagle .50 and dozens of rifles and shotguns. The day that we start arming elementary school teachers is the day I look for a new line of work and a new country to raise my family.

What about a security guard that either has access to a firearm, or is armed?

[razorwire77]

What about a security guard that either has access to a firearm, or is armed?

You mean the same rent-a-cop security guards that make 9 bucks an hour and stare disturbingly at the pretty girls? Yeah, I want to give those guys a Glock .45 and a mandate. Most school districts can't afford to purchase decent computers, much less pay a semi-competent armed security guard. Hell, most major cities can't even afford to pay and retain decent cops.

[Bob]

The following article is not exactly light reading, but it clearly shows the historical correlation between restricting gun rights in various countries and the genocides that followed. The 2nd Amendment was not, and has never been about hunting -- it is about our God-given responsibility to preserve liberty for ourselves, and for our children. Although, we also grieve over the tragedy of Newtown, CT we cannot trade liberty for a false sense of security. It seems clear to me that this very sad event will be used to usurp our rights - not because the statists in government "care" about the children. They do care, however, about using the goodness of our hearts, manipulating our suffering, and our demands for unattainable justice to seize control, which control they cannot have until they have an unarmed citizenry. http://www.guncite.com/journals/lethal.html

[Bob]

You mean the same rent-a-cop security guards that make 9 bucks an hour and stare disturbingly at the pretty girls? Yeah, I want to give those guys a Glock .45 and a mandate. Most school districts can't afford to purchase decent computers, much less pay a semi-competent armed security guard. Hell, most major cities can't even afford to pay and retain decent cops.

In Montana they have cops in the middle and high schools...and we don't have sales taxes - one advantage of smaller government.

[razorwire77]

In Montana they have cops in the middle and high schools...and we don't have sales taxes - one advantage of smaller government.

New Mexico does as well. Big difference though between having a part time cop in some of the rougher high school a couple of times per week and going balls out cops in the hallway of every public elementary school in America.

[Rohirrim]

I don't see any reason why we can't just say that bolt action rifles, shotguns (limited to three rounds - and not that phony-ass plug you can just remove) and revolvers limited to six rounds are the only guns that are legal in the U.S. That doesn't violate the 2nd amendment. Oh, and no armor piercing ammo.

[cutthemdown]

You mean the same rent-a-cop security guards that make 9 bucks an hour and stare disturbingly at the pretty girls? Yeah, I want to give those guys a Glock .45 and a mandate. Most school districts can't afford to purchase decent computers, much less pay a semi-competent armed security guard. Hell, most major cities can't even afford to pay and retain decent cops.

With all the teachers getting caught banging the kids not sure i would worry about one more adult in the mix. Are you saying teachers somehow more moral then security guards?

[houghtam]

I don't see any reason why we can't just say that bolt action rifles, shotguns (limited to three rounds - and not that phony-ass plug you can just remove) and revolvers limited to six rounds are the only guns that are legal in the U.S. That doesn't violate the 2nd amendment. Oh, and no armor piercing ammo.

If you can't hit your target with 10 rounds, you don't need a higher capacity magazine. You need more target practice.

[cutthemdown]

I don't see any reason why we can't just say that bolt action rifles, shotguns (limited to three rounds - and not that phony-ass plug you can just remove) and revolvers limited to six rounds are the only guns that are legal in the U.S. That doesn't violate the 2nd amendment. Oh, and no armor piercing ammo.

I think something like this is what liberals should really push for. I mean why waste your time in power by not going for what you really want to do. being worried it could hurt down the road is foolish. Grab what you can while you can. Also they better move fast you want all this gun control over by the next midterm elections.

[cutthemdown]

If you can't hit your target with 10 rounds, you don't need a higher capacity magazine. You need more target practice.

You know here in Calif we can't have more then 10 round magazines. People just buy 5-6 magazines and load them all up. It's really easy to slap another magazine into the rifle. Sure I guess it slows you down a bit and it could in theory change a situation but i doubt it would make a noticable drop in gun related homicide. Remember that guy at the college, was it virg tech? He used handguns so rifles not even the most deadly.

i understand people are pissed and want to think the govt can do something about it. Another great example of liberals thinking the govt can help them when in reality there might not be much they can do.

[cutthemdown]

If you can't hit your target with 10 rounds, you don't need a higher capacity magazine. You need more target practice.

What if you have 5 targets? or more.

[houghtam]

What if you have 5 targets? or more.

You know what? You're right. What if you have 5 targets? Or a million? Lets legalize nukes.

No one needs a high capacity magazine. No one.

[Rohirrim]

I think something like this is what liberals should really push for. I mean why waste your time in power by not going for what you really want to do. being worried it could hurt down the road is foolish. Grab what you can while you can. Also they better move fast you want all this gun control over by the next midterm elections.

I don't really care what ideological heading you want to put it under. What's wrong with it? We need to start talking ideas in this country, and dump all the ideological bull****.

[houghtam]

Sure I guess it slows you down a bit and it could in theory change a situation but i doubt it would make a noticable drop in gun related homicide.

Interesting, so it's just a theory that having lower capacity magazines might slow him down, so there's no reason to institute a ban, yet in theory someone could take out the shooter using a concealed weapon, so we should start arming our teachers and principals?

Good to know you can talk out both sides of your mouth.

And you claim liberals are the ones with talking points.

[cutthemdown]

You know what? You're right. What if you have 5 targets? Or a million? Lets legalize nukes.

No one needs a high capacity magazine. No one.

Just a silly law calif already has. Big deal everyone carries 3-4 loaded magazines. Not like it makes people any safer. It just makes some dude who liked his 30 round clip when he goes shooting get screwed. Thats it. Also saying oh you want 30 round magazines? OH MAN WHY NOT GIVE YOU A TANK AND A NUCLEAR MISSILE. What a friggin joke. Your arguments are a joke and so are you.

[cutthemdown]

Interesting, so it's just a theory that having lower capacity magazines might slow him down, so there's no reason to institute a ban, yet in theory someone could take out the shooter using a concealed weapon, so we should start arming our teachers and principals?

Good to know you can talk out both sides of your mouth.

And you claim liberals are the ones with talking points.

exactly a ban that makes no one safer is stupid. Why bother? Go ahead if you just want to feel better. newsflash i already live under those rules in CA. Good thing is all our guns will probably be able to still be legal. The point is any gun is going to kill effortlessly when wielded against unarmed people.

A .22 rifle with a 10 round magazine could kill little kids cmon. The only way to make little kids safer at school is more school security. Armed school security.

[houghtam]

exactly a ban that makes no one safer is stupid. Why bother? Go ahead if you just want to feel better. newsflash i already live under those rules in CA. Good thing is all our guns will probably be able to still be legal. The point is any gun is going to kill effortlessly when wielded against unarmed people.

A .22 rifle with a 10 round magazine could kill little kids cmon. The only way to make little kids safer at school is more school security. Armed school security.

And arming teachers is equally as stupid. It's a theory with less fact behind it than banning assault weapons and large capacity magazines.

So are you gonna take your tax gun and ammo purchases to pay for school security idea to Capitol Hill? Or are you still sticking with your increase class sizes and fire teachers to pay for security idea? Either one of those ideas is founded in an impeccable reality.

[cutthemdown]

And arming teachers is equally as stupid. It's a theory with less fact behind it than banning assault weapons and large capacity magazines.

So are you gonna take your tax gun and ammo purchases to pay for school security idea to Capitol Hill? Or are you still sticking with your increase class sizes and fire teachers to pay for security idea? Either one of those ideas is founded in an impeccable reality.

You dont like the tax ammo sales idea? I thought you would love that one honestly. I don't think arming all teachers is reasonable. I never said that. I said it would be reasonable to have the principal armed though. Obviously this would have to be a volunteer basis. I mean its already being done in some schools so to say its undoable seems untrue to me. The fact it is being done discounts your position. Also a lot of schools have armed guards.

An armed guard at every school would indeed save many more lives at schools then an assault weapons ban or other gun control measures.

[Fedaykin]

You dont like the tax ammo sales idea? I thought you would love that one honestly. I don't think arming all teachers is reasonable. I never said that. I said it would be reasonable to have the principal armed though. Obviously this would have to be a volunteer basis. I mean its already being done in some schools so to say its undoable seems untrue to me. The fact it is being done discounts your position. Also a lot of schools have armed guards.

An armed guard at every school would indeed save many more lives at schools then an assault weapons ban or other gun control measures.


Yeah, because putting a gun in the hands of a paper pusher is going to solve the problem. At least the idea of armed (and TRAINED) security guards would actually help.

[Fedaykin]

Just a silly law calif already has. Big deal everyone carries 3-4 loaded magazines. Not like it makes people any safer. It just makes some dude who liked his 30 round clip when he goes shooting get screwed. Thats it. Also saying oh you want 30 round magazines? OH MAN WHY NOT GIVE YOU A TANK AND A NUCLEAR MISSILE. What a friggin joke. Your arguments are a joke and so are you.

When do you think the authorities or good samaritans are most likely to be able to return fire and stop a shooter in the most timely manner? When he is:

a.) Blasting away with a large capacity magazine or
b.) Stopping to reload frequently?

And are you really going to argue that a sport shooter is 'screwed' if they can't have huge clips? Really?

[cutthemdown]

When do you think the authorities or good samaritans are most likely to be able to return fire and stop a shooter in the most timely manner? When he is:

a.) Blasting away with a large capacity magazine or
b.) Stopping to reload frequently?

And are you really going to argue that a sport shooter is 'screwed' if they can't have huge clips? Really?

A lot of people think the larger clips just jam up more but I will leave that argument to people who have the larger clips. Like i said in CA we already are under a lot of the rules Fienstien and the liberals are talking about in DC. Just warning you guys if you expect that to make your kids safer at school you are wrong.

[Fedaykin]

A lot of people think the larger clips just jam up more but I will leave that argument to people who have the larger clips. Like i said in CA we already are under a lot of the rules Fienstien and the liberals are talking about in DC. Just warning you guys if you expect that to make your kids safer at school you are wrong.

Giving more opportunities for a shootout to be ended quickly DOES make us safer -- and clip size, in particular, does that while having no impact whatsoever on sportsmen.

Does it completely solve the problem? No, of course not. Does it make a huge impact? Probably not. But given the 0 harm that it causes to legit uses, it's an easy decision to make.

[cutthemdown]

Hell gun death crimes were higher when we have the assault weapons ban in place Fed. That proves gun violence does not ebb or flow with assault rifles.

[Fedaykin]

Hell gun death crimes were higher when we have the assault weapons ban in place Fed. That proves gun violence does not ebb or flow with assault rifles.

Back to just making **** up huh?

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/graphicsmatter/americanpopulationfirearmsdeaths.png

Since you are probably too rock dumb to understand it, that chart shows a ~40%+ decrease in firearm related deaths (per person AND per firearm) over the period of the AWB.

[cutthemdown]

Back to just making **** up huh?

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/graphicsmatter/americanpopulationfirearmsdeaths.png

Since you are probably too rock dumb to understand it, that chart shows a ~40%+ decrease in firearm related deaths (per person AND per firearm) over the period of the AWB.

Big deal since the band expired its basically stayed the same. Not to mention that chart doesn't show anything about assault rifles. My point is you can't prove assault rifles are a problem fueling murders.

Also in the late 80's to mid 90's it was the peak of the la gang wars. When the truce hit murders decreased by about 600 a yr in the LA area. That probably had more to do with the decrease then your brady bill did.

[Arkie]

Half the world's guns are in the USA. It's part of the culture. You better protect your family if you want to live in this gun obsessed country. BTW, 99.8% of rapists polled prefer their victims unarmed.

[BroncoBeavis]

Big deal since the band expired its basically stayed the same. Not to mention that chart doesn't show anything about assault rifles. My point is you can't prove assault rifles are a problem fueling murders.

Also in the late 80's to mid 90's it was the peak of the la gang wars. When the truce hit murders decreased by about 600 a yr in the LA area. That probably had more to do with the decrease then your brady bill did.

You should ask him why they continue to use numbers where the majority of what they show are suicides.

[lonestar]

Hey libs.

Numbers never lie.

Liars always figure.

With means to most if the thinking impaired of you. There are folks out there with an agenda that put stats together that are massaged they way they want them to come out.

It just takes semi critical thinking to get past thee bias in their message.

That is of course if you WANT to. Most of you are just looking to hear the worst. So you are in hog heaven.

[Fedaykin]

Big deal since the band expired its basically stayed the same. Not to mention that chart doesn't show anything about assault rifles. My point is you can't prove assault rifles are a problem fueling murders.

Also in the late 80's to mid 90's it was the peak of the la gang wars. When the truce hit murders decreased by about 600 a yr in the LA area. That probably had more to do with the decrease then your brady bill did.


Hey moron. You said there was an INCREASE in gun deaths after the AWB. That's what I was responding to.

Pull your head out of your rectum once in a while.

Just because you're a dishonest POS and think you can make **** up as you go along doesn't mean I won't call you on it.

[Fedaykin]

Hey libs.

Numbers never lie.

Liars always figure.

With means to most if the thinking impaired of you. There are folks out there with an agenda that put stats together that are massaged they way they want them to come out.

It just takes semi critical thinking to get past thee bias in their message.

That is of course if you WANT to. Most of you are just looking to hear the worst. So you are in hog heaven.

Hey lonestar. What is my position on gun control? I've talked about it many times here. Are you even aware?

[lonestar]

Hey lonestar. What is my position on gun control? I've talked about it many times here. Are you even aware?

Frankly I do not care. When you post a graph full of crap it pretty much shows you colors. From the past posts you have made you at full of lib.
That is all.

[Jetland]

Frankly I do not care. When you post a graph full of crap it pretty much shows you colors. From the past posts you have made you at full of lib.
That is all.

eh?

[W*GS]

When you post a graph full of crap it pretty much shows you colors. From the past posts you have made you at full of lib.
That is all.

You should visit the original source...

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2010/06/graphics-matter-year-the-second.html

[lonestar]

eh?

Typical spam response. From the libs left.

[Requiem]

Sounds like you are doing a bang up job of trying to be a better Christian. F.O.S.

[Jetland]

Sounds like you are doing a bang up job of trying to be a better Christian. F.O.S.

standard bearer

[Fedaykin]

Frankly I do not care. When you post a graph full of crap it pretty much shows you colors. From the past posts you have made you at full of lib.
That is all.

In other words. I'm someone you think you disagree with on everything, so there's no point in doing anything but name calling (and then, hilariously, bitching about anyone who does exactly the same thing you do).

If you don't like what you see in that graph, try bringing evidence that it is incorrect. Simply name calling and whatever you imply by "shows you [sic] colors" is nothing short if complete dishonesty.

If you don't want to actually engage, that's fine too. But the childishness of simply trolling and tossing about some hypocritical name calling is pathetic.

[Fedaykin]

You should visit the original source...

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2010/06/graphics-matter-year-the-second.html

Imagine his total lack of self awareness generated embarrassment even if he had the integrity necessary to look at that link and find out that the person making the graph:

a.) is pro gun rights
b.) attempting to disprove the idea that more guns = more deaths.

Of course, like I said, I only included it to show that cutlet was just making **** up when he said that more people were dying from gun violence after the AWB than before.

[lonestar]

Imagine his total lack of self awareness generated embarrassment even if he had the integrity necessary to look at that link and find out that the person making the graph:

a.) is pro gun rights
b.) attempting to disprove the idea that more guns = more deaths.

Of course, like I said, I only included it to show that cutlet was just making **** up when he said that more people were dying from gun violence after the AWB than before.

Wow all of that because I posted. I'm faltered, you libs act like I care what you think. And before dream from peanut gallery chlimes in about my post not being Christain enough for him.

There is turning the other check and there is just being stupid.

I have at worst used the word libs to describe those in the far right

One would think those that are would wear it as a badge of honor. Instead of running from it.

Once again y'all confuse me with someone that cares what Y'all think about me.

[Fedaykin]

Wow all of that because I posted. I'm faltered, you libs act like I care what you think. And before dream from peanut gallery chlimes in about my post not being Christain enough for him.

There is turning the other check and there is just being stupid.

I have at worst used the word libs to describe those in the far right

One would think those that are would wear it as a badge of honor. Instead of running from it.

Once again y'all confuse me with someone that cares what Y'all think about me.

Just another idjit too confused to understand the the intent of something is what counts, not the form of something.

[Fedaykin]

Once again y'all confuse me with someone that cares what Y'all think about me.

The toleration of cognitive dissonance required to have such a high opinion of yourself and such a low standard of integrity is quite impressive.

[lonestar]

The toleration of cognitive dissonance required to have such a high opinion of yourself and such a low standard of integrity is quite impressive.

I'll put it this way.

Less about me and just the very low standard of integrity of the far left, which includes YOU.

We can agree to disagree.

[cutthemdown]

funny how Fed tells someone they only call people names then proceeds to use idiot, moron etc lol. You just misunderstood what i was saying was that since the Brady bill expired gun deaths haven't gone up that much. You went back and put a graph that supposedly shows it did drop after the brady bill was enacted. My response to that would be there could have been a lot of other factors. The end of the LA gang wars for one. The brady bill had nothing to do with any of the major reductions in crimes that many cities went through in the late 80's. Whatever though its funny hearing you complain about name calling because you call people names all the time. i admit though when I made the comment FED I was thinking how I had heard our gun murder rate was lower then it used to be and it is. I didn't know however that there was such a drop right after the brady bill. I won't conceede though that is the reason, your graph doesn't prove that was the driving force.

[houghtam]

Wow all of that because I posted. I'm faltered, you libs act like I care what you think. And before dream from peanut gallery chlimes in about my post not being Christain enough for him.

There is turning the other check and there is just being stupid.

I have at worst used the word libs to describe those in the far right

One would think those that are would wear it as a badge of honor. Instead of running from it.

Once again y'all confuse me with someone that cares what Y'all think about me.

"No, Jesus, I didn't turn the cheek like you said. But I didn't do anything any worse than they did. Am I doing the heaven thing right?"



Jesus is not impressed.

[lonestar]

"No, Jesus, I didn't turn the cheek like you said. But I didn't do anything any worse than they did. Am I doing the heaven thing right?"



Jesus is not impressed.

Nor am I worried about approval from you or any of your lib buddies.

Frankly I do not care if y'all like my posts or ideas.

I'm pretty happy with my choices in life and current lifestyle, conversely disapprove of the lib thought process. I will always speak my mind and whether y'all think making fun of it is your happy place I could care less.

Go broncos.

Getting back to the topic.
Let me add that blaming firearms for murders is beyond dumb.

[Fedaykin]

funny how Fed tells someone they only call people names then proceeds to use idiot, moron etc lol.


I don't only call you and idiot and a moron. I point out exactly WHY you qualify for the terms. There's a big difference there.


You just misunderstood what I was saying was that since the Brady bill expired gun deaths haven't gone up that much.


YOU LYING SACK OF ****. Here's your post again:


Hell gun death crimes were higher when we have the assault weapons ban in place Fed. That proves gun violence does not ebb or flow with assault rifles.


That very clearly says: gun deaths went up during the assault weapons ban.
Also the Brady Bill is NOT the same thing as the Assault Weapons Ban, so you're just lying again. The Brady Bill was about background checks for handguns.

You also haven't bothered to correct yourself for several posts, so I'm not inclined to believe you meant something else.

Usually someone with as much practice lying as you have has at least learned do to it with some competency (not that competency at lying is a good thing, mind you).


You went back and put a graph that supposedly shows it did drop after the brady bill was enacted. My response to that would be there could have been a lot of other factors.


As I've said at least twice, the only purpose of the graph (a graph, mind you, created by a gun rights advocate) was to show you were full of **** saying the AWB correlated with an increase in gun deaths.


The end of the LA gang wars for one. The brady bill had nothing to do with any of the major reductions in crimes that many cities went through in the late 80's.


Oh look, another bald assertion! Do you have the integrity necessary to actually try to back that up? My guess is no. You'd prefer to just spout that which conforms to your ideology.


Whatever though its funny hearing you complain about name calling because you call people names all the time.


Couldn't care less about naming calling. It's when name calling is the only thing going on, and no substance, that I point out the miscreant. The latter happens to be against official board policy, but of course it's not enforced. *shrug*

Don't do things that earn you the monkier "lying sack of ****" and "idjit" and "vapid moron" and you won't hear such things from me.


i admit though when I made the comment FED I was thinking how I had heard our gun murder rate was lower then it used to be and it is. I didn't know however that there was such a drop right after the brady bill.

Ahh, interesting strategy here bub:

1.) Pull **** out of your ass
2.) Get called on it
3.) In the same post, LIE about having pulled said **** out of your ass (claim you said something else) and then CONFIRM the lie in the last part of a post!.

You're a real piece of work.


I won't conceede though that is the reason, your graph doesn't prove that was the driving force.

Well, given that I never made *any* claim based on the data other than it shows you're full of **** saying gun deaths went up after the AWB (and now the Brady Bill) you're wasting your breath.

[W*GS]

Frankly I do not care if y'all like my posts or ideas.

Yep, a self-admitted spammer.