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Rohirrim
12-14-2012, 08:21 AM
Every TV football show I look in on, every sports radio yakker, and every pundit out there on the Blab-O-Sphere, seems to be riding the Broncos' bandwagon. Eight wins in a row! Sure seems impressive. Actually, it is impressive, and it's been a fun ride. Sure as hell better than much of the recent past.

But when you look at the Broncos' 2012 schedule, they've beaten everybody they should have beaten, and lost to obvious playoff contenders; Atlanta, Houston and New England. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but the Broncos are looking like they're set up to be "One and Done" in the playoffs.

The Ravens are one of the three teams to have handed the Patriots a loss this season. I'm seeing this game as a barometer on the question of "reality vs hype" when it comes to the Broncos. If they smash the Ravens, look out in the playoffs. If they win a close one, they are still a legitimate playoff threat. If they lose a close one, things get a little iffy. If they get their asses kicked, the bubble bursts and it ain't looking too good.

TheChamp24
12-14-2012, 08:25 AM
http://gifsforum.com/images/image/repost/grand/not_this_again.jpg

Beantown Bronco
12-14-2012, 08:27 AM
But when you look at the Broncos' 2012 schedule, they've beaten everybody they should have beaten, and lost to obvious playoff contenders; Atlanta, Houston and New England.

Atlanta, Houston and NE aren't just playoff contenders. They're #1 overall team in the league contenders. They're all top 5 in any power ranking out there for good reason. They're solid teams.

Don't forget. We beat Pitt and Cincy, and both are playoff contenders by definition.

TonyR
12-14-2012, 08:37 AM
Yup, pretty much what I posted here:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3750182#post3750182
...and here:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3751599&postcount=88

Their winning streak is certainly impressive, as is their current offensive and defensive standing. They are the only team in the league ranked in the top five in both. But their 10 wins have come against teams that are a combined 39-65 (.375).

While the Broncos have no control over the troubles the teams in their own division continue to have, or even over their schedule, their current resume is also the teams they have played, nothing more, nothing less.

The three teams that have defeated the Broncos are a combined 32-7 (.821), two of those on the road in New England and in Atlanta.
Read more: Question lingers in NFL: Are Broncos built to win on road in playoffs? - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2EqfNWsrG

Rabb
12-14-2012, 08:38 AM
Atlanta, Houston and NE aren't just playoff contenders. They're #1 overall team in the league contenders. They're all top 5 in any power ranking out there for good reason. They're solid teams.

Don't forget. We beat Pitt and Cincy, and both are playoff contenders by definition.

the one that stings there to me is Atlanta

I think we could and should have beaten them, and they are vastly overrated...but the record is what it is

the weakest of those 3 by a long shot

rbackfactory80
12-14-2012, 08:41 AM
Huge game, doesn't matter what anyone says.

I see no chance of us running away with this one and at best a couple point victory.

Still I don't think that means we will be no good come playoff time. But it sucks to have such few test late in the season. Some good teams are playing their toughest games at a time where they need to know where they stand most.

Beantown Bronco
12-14-2012, 08:44 AM
the one that stings there to me is Atlanta

I think we could and should have beaten them, and they are vastly overrated...but the record is what it is

the weakest of those 3 by a long shot

We just played them at the wrong time. I said it the day of our game and I'll say it until I'm blue in the face:

You don't want to face a Mike Nolan defense early in the year. He has a history of fielding a defense that starts off great and then fades badly down the stretch. Happens basically every year with him and it looks like it could be happening again this year.

Kaylore
12-14-2012, 08:48 AM
We have beat some good teams. The Steelers with Big Ben, the Bengals, the Buccs - I'd even argue dominating the Saints was impressive because of how good their offense is. So I don't agree that we just got cupcakes. I would even argue the Ravens are pretty flawed and beating them won't necessarily prove anything.

Archer81
12-14-2012, 08:50 AM
I have a feeling if the schedule had been flipped and we played Houston, Atlanta and NE late, at least two of those games end up as wins for the Broncos.

The playoffs should be awesome.

:Broncos:

fontaine
12-14-2012, 09:02 AM
In some ways I think the Cleveland game is going to be a challenge as well.

They got a very good secondary with guys like Brown/Ward and a very good front 7 against the run and are very healthy.

But really, the next three games are about trying to get the offense working in high gear, getting guys like Moreno/Hillman to up their game and getting some of the guys on in a slump on Defense back with momentum - Dumervil/Vickerson/Ayers etc.

ZONA
12-14-2012, 09:22 AM
I have a feeling if the schedule had been flipped and we played Houston, Atlanta and NE late, at least two of those games end up as wins for the Broncos.

The playoffs should be awesome.

:Broncos:

Yeah, I look at it this way. You have PM comming off a year layoff to a new team with whom he does not have any real rhythm yet, trying to combine his plays with McCoy's. All those offensive players getting used to playing with PM. A New DC and his new system. It doesn't happen over night. You could see the mistakes made early in each of those games. The fact that we almost came back and won those games was a good sign of things to come. It wasn't like it was a close game and we came back and made a FG to get close. It was 2nd half domination on both sides of the ball to close usually 14+ gaps. We had each of those teams WORRIED big time. IMO, you add another 4 minutes to each of those games and we win all 3. If not for that F'd McGahee fumble in NE, we might not have even needed those 4 more minutes.


The Broncos are most definitely more cohesive right now and I love our chances playing each team. Not just because of PM, he always gives you a chance. But this defense, whoa, it brings this team to another level. A level that you can go on the road late in the season and win against ANYBODY. We're talking top 5 in offense and defense. You don't really see that often.

Rabb
12-14-2012, 09:41 AM
We just played them at the wrong time. I said it the day of our game and I'll say it until I'm blue in the face:

You don't want to face a Mike Nolan defense early in the year. He has a history of fielding a defense that starts off great and then fades badly down the stretch. Happens basically every year with him and it looks like it could be happening again this year.

yep, agreed

maher_tyler
12-14-2012, 10:16 AM
We have beat some good teams. The Steelers with Big Ben, the Bengals, the Buccs - I'd even argue dominating the Saints was impressive because of how good their offense is. So I don't agree that we just got cupcakes. I would even argue the Ravens are pretty flawed and beating them won't necessarily prove anything.

I agree...the hardest thing about this game is an east coast early game.

DarkHorse30
12-14-2012, 10:27 AM
I have a feeling if the schedule had been flipped and we played Houston, Atlanta and NE late, at least two of those games end up as wins for the Broncos.

The playoffs should be awesome.

:Broncos:

Bingo. All of the naysayers mention the losses to good teams (That have played together for 3 plus years)....but no mention of Denver learning a NEW offense, and a NEW defense, with a NEW QB, and a NEW DC....while playing a front heavy schedule.

Even in those losses, Denver crawled back to contend...AGAINST THE TOP TEAM IN THE AFC AND THE TOP TEAM IN THE NFC...IN THEIR HOUSE WHERE NOBODY BEATS THEM

But....if you don't have anything to write, just wipe yourself and throw it on the mane. Great thread.

TonyR
12-14-2012, 10:53 AM
All of the naysayers mention the losses to good teams...

I don't know that it's "naysaying" in most cases as much as it is pointing out that we need to prove that we can beat a good team on the road. That's what I want to see the Broncos do on Sunday because that's what we're going to have to do in the playoffs. Naysaying would be saying we can't do it. I, for one, am not saying that.

Rohirrim
12-14-2012, 11:21 AM
I don't know that it's "naysaying" in most cases as much as it is pointing out that we need to prove that we can beat a good team on the road. That's what I want to see the Broncos do on Sunday because that's what we're going to have to do in the playoffs. Naysaying would be saying we can't do it. I, for one, am not saying that.

It's hard to start a thread on here anymore where one of the numerous little pricks won't see it as another opportunity to masturbate his ego.

Anyway, you got the point, even if the thicker heads among us didn't. Of course, nowhere in my post did I say they couldn't. What I'm saying is that this game is a very good opportunity to take stock of the Broncos chances against the better competition in the league. Our last five opponents have been Carolina, San Diego, Kansas City, Tampa Bay and Oakland. The Ravens are a whole different level of competition.

baja
12-14-2012, 11:29 AM
It's hard to start a thread on here anymore where one of the numerous little pricks won't see it as another opportunity to masturbate his ego.

Anyway, you got the point, even if the thicker heads among us didn't. Of course, nowhere in my post did I say they couldn't. What I'm saying is that this game is a very good opportunity to take stock of the Broncos chances against the better competition in the league. Our last five opponents have been Carolina, San Diego, Kansas City, Tampa Bay and Oakland. The Ravens are a whole different level of competition.

Yup. Be sure to never post a thread about a nice feel good article from the DPO. Because posters here are too clever super fans to enjoy it

DarkHorse30
12-14-2012, 01:32 PM
I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but the Broncos are looking like they're set up to be "One and Done" in the playoffs.
ticked me off- which is why I disputed the "hasn't won against the good team" line - which HAS dominated the Broncos reporting, IMO. Pundits are barfing out the line....ignoring that the 2012 team has a new QB, new offense, and new defense, and began their learning curve against the best teams in the league..(except for Oakland, of course). It takes time to build a team from scratch - sometimes more than 5 weeks

However, the rest of your FIRST post was fine....honestly, I didn't read it after the Debbie Downer falderal, my apologies


The Ravens are one of the three teams to have handed the Patriots a loss this season. I'm seeing this game as a barometer on the question of "reality vs hype" when it comes to the Broncos. If they smash the Ravens, look out in the playoffs. If they win a close one, they are still a legitimate playoff threat. If they lose a close one, things get a little iffy. If they get their asses kicked, the bubble bursts and it ain't looking too good.

DivineLegion
12-14-2012, 01:40 PM
I think this will definitely be a definitive game for the Broncos. Early in the season we lost to NE, ATL, and HOU; now the team has had time to gel, and we get to see what they can do against a playoff contender. Beating the likes of NO, Tampa, SD twice, and CIN were all must win type games, but far from statements to our supremacy. Baltimore (injured or not) on the road would be a major statement this late in the season for the Broncos. We haven't beat a top 5 team all season, and this is our last chance.

Mediator12
12-15-2012, 04:15 PM
This is a very different game in a diffferent segment of the year where personnel makes the difference more than scheme. It is extemely hard to outscheme people this late in the year. ATL somewhat outschemed DEN, NE somewhat outschemed DEN, and HOU played very well against us and outexecuted us IMHO.

This game will be a barometer, but not for any of the reasons you mentioned IMHO as well. This game will show us how talented we really are going into the playoffs and if we can win a must win game. IF DEN wins, HOU and NE could very easily lose this weekend and we basically eliminate BAL from a potential bye, they could be in the drivers seat for the bye and possibly a little luck get the first seed with the Colts fighting HOU in 2 of 3 games left.

Peyton will treat this as a must win game for those very reasons, reasons he is used to doing in INDY all those years. I just want to see if the rest of the team gets his message and performs loud and clear tomorrow.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-15-2012, 04:30 PM
Not to mention, we hardly got blown out of those games. We were within a stop on third down against ATL and HOU of getting the ball back for a game winning drive with 2 min to go, and if McGahee didnt drop a 4th down pass or fumble near the goalline, that game could have ended up different too

RedskinBronco
12-15-2012, 05:17 PM
barometer game in terms of tough road environment, but these ravens are the ravens only by reputation and are pretty mediocre.

I will be disappointed if we show the same struggles we did in Houston, NE and ATL. Especially now that the team has had 13 games to gel.

Bacchus
12-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Every TV football show I look in on, every sports radio yakker, and every pundit out there on the Blab-O-Sphere, seems to be riding the Broncos' bandwagon. Eight wins in a row! Sure seems impressive. Actually, it is impressive, and it's been a fun ride. Sure as hell better than much of the recent past.

But when you look at the Broncos' 2012 schedule, they've beaten everybody they should have beaten, and lost to obvious playoff contenders; Atlanta, Houston and New England. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but the Broncos are looking like they're set up to be "One and Done" in the playoffs.

The Ravens are one of the three teams to have handed the Patriots a loss this season. I'm seeing this game as a barometer on the question of "reality vs hype" when it comes to the Broncos. If they smash the Ravens, look out in the playoffs. If they win a close one, they are still a legitimate playoff threat. If they lose a close one, things get a little iffy. If they get their asses kicked, the bubble bursts and it ain't looking too good.

So let me get this straight, Denver looks to be one and done because they have beaten everybody they should have beaten? You're normally a good poster. You do realize their first playoff game is at home and they should win?

Bacchus
12-15-2012, 06:26 PM
ATL somewhat outschemed DEN, NE somewhat outschemed DEN, and HOU played very well against us and outexecuted us IMHO.

.

What I take from the losses is that Manning was not up to par yet.

Peyton threw 3 balls down the middle of the field in coverage and got picked off three time on his first three possessions. After that Denver outplayed ATL and almost won the game. Oh yeah the replacement refs screwed Morneo with their fumble call.

Watch the Houston game again. Manning over and over again missed on deep passes but they were there. Houston's secondary is very suspect.

Denver fumbled on their first tow possessions against NE and Manning was not sharp the first half. The second half was a different story.

The last 4 weeks Denver has done much better int he first half Manning is now on target and I am very confident Denver is better than both Atlanta and Houston. If Denver plays the Pats again if they do not turn the ball over I like their chances a lot.

DivineLegion
12-15-2012, 07:09 PM
What I take from the losses is that Manning was not up to par yet.

Peyton threw 3 balls down the middle of the field in coverage and got picked off three time on his first three possessions. After that Denver outplayed ATL and almost won the game. Oh yeah the replacement refs screwed Morneo with their fumble call.

Watch the Houston game again. Manning over and over again missed on deep passes but they were there. Houston's secondary is very suspect.

Denver fumbled on their first tow possessions against NE and Manning was not sharp the first half. The second half was a different story.

The last 4 weeks Denver has done much better int he first half Manning is now on target and I am very confident Denver is better than both Atlanta and Houston. If Denver plays the Pats again if they do not turn the ball over I like their chances a lot.

I have reservations about this thought that Denver's offense is clicking on all cylinders. To this point I don't think Denver's offense has peaked yet, and the ramifications of that could be boom or bust in the playoffs. We haven't had a dominant offensive performance since the middle of the season. Much of that can be attributed to injuries, but I haven't seen a complete game since we slammed the Saints (that may have been the only one this season). My logic is this, Denver is a great second half team thanks to coaching adjustments, but susceptible to schematic variability in pregame preparation. This has been evident all season long, and could spell a playoff disappointment if we are forced to play catch up. The evidence of this is clear in the Houston, New England, and Atlanta games. If the Broncos come out flat against top rated opponents in the playoffs, they have a real shot at getting knocked out early. That is why putting away an injured Ravens team late in the season can be perceived as a proverbial barometer. If the Broncos can't put together a complete game in a playoff type scenario, ala extended time off, and meaningfulness of opponent; what's to say they can do it in the playoffs. Food for thought.

Bacchus
12-15-2012, 07:25 PM
We haven't had a dominant offensive performance since the middle of the season.


Denver's offensive output the last 7 weeks.

26 points
31 points
17 points
30 points
36 points
31 points
34 points

you do realize that the teams the Broncos are playing get paid money to keep Denver from scoring right? The offense is fine as long as they do not turn the ball over.

DivineLegion
12-15-2012, 08:28 PM
Denver's offensive output the last 7 weeks.

26 points
31 points
17 points
30 points
36 points
31 points
34 points

you do realize that the teams the Broncos are playing get paid money to keep Denver from scoring right? The offense is fine as long as they do not turn the ball over.


I believe these numbers are adjusted, and I appreciate that, but turnovers play a huge role in some of our offensive scoring numbers. Without getting to caught up in a statistical argument, I would like to make it clear that my assumptions are based off of observational data. Secondly, I wold like to remind you that my concern is the first half of games, and not the end result. Then there is the matter of quality of opponent, which since week 5 has been descisivly weak. Outside of Tampa, and Cinncinati, Denver has yet to face a playoff worthy opponent. My goal is simply to inject legitimacy into the notion that we haven't seen the full potential of this Denver team.

Defensively Denver is out performing my expectation, offensively I haven't seen that swagger. I think that the functionality of this offense is still another year in the making, and the real measuring stick will be applied in the playoffs. I look forward to being wrong, because at this point I feel like our offenses ability to dominate is the only thing holding us back from being the best team in the NFL. Again, I feel like this game holds more weight, because it stands as our first real shot at a top 5 AFC with a full season of Manning at QB, hints the barometric analogy.

snowspot66
12-15-2012, 08:54 PM
I believe these numbers are adjusted, and I appreciate that, but turnovers play a huge role in some of our offensive scoring numbers. Without getting to caught up in a statistical argument, I would like to make it clear that my assumptions are based off of observational data. Secondly, I wold like to remind you that my concern is the first half of games, and not the end result. Then there is the matter of quality of opponent, which since week 5 has been descisivly weak. Outside of Tampa, and Cinncinati, Denver has yet to face a playoff worthy opponent. My goal is simply to inject legitimacy into the notion that we haven't seen the full potential of this Denver team.

Defensively Denver is out performing my expectation, offensively I haven't seen that swagger. I think that the functionality of this offense is still another year in the making, and the real measuring stick will be applied in the playoffs. I look forward to being wrong, because at this point I feel like our offenses ability to dominate is the only thing holding us back from being the best team in the NFL. Again, I feel like this game holds more weight, because it stands as our first real shot at a top 5 AFC with a full season of Manning at QB, hints the barometric analogy.

So....are we the only team that is true for?

Bacchus
12-15-2012, 09:06 PM
I believe these numbers are adjusted, and I appreciate that, but turnovers play a huge role in some of our offensive scoring numbers. Without getting to caught up in a statistical argument, I would like to make it clear that my assumptions are based off of observational data. Secondly, I wold like to remind you that my concern is the first half of games, and not the end result. Then there is the matter of quality of opponent, which since week 5 has been descisivly weak. Outside of Tampa, and Cinncinati, Denver has yet to face a playoff worthy opponent. My goal is simply to inject legitimacy into the notion that we haven't seen the full potential of this Denver team.

Defensively Denver is out performing my expectation, offensively I haven't seen that swagger. I think that the functionality of this offense is still another year in the making, and the real measuring stick will be applied in the playoffs. I look forward to being wrong, because at this point I feel like our offenses ability to dominate is the only thing holding us back from being the best team in the NFL. Again, I feel like this game holds more weight, because it stands as our first real shot at a top 5 AFC with a full season of Manning at QB, hints the barometric analogy.

I agree Denver's offense can play better but I find all your arguments not legitimate. Denver's likely 1st round opponent is Cincinnati or the Colts. Yet you say Denver has not beat a playoff worthy opponent yet and they have. They beat Cincinnati.

Missouribronc
12-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Not the BCS.

BroncoFox
12-15-2012, 10:36 PM
The Broncos are better than you think. They are balanced. Which is a great thing. Offense has an off day? The defense can win it for us. Defense playing flat? Then the offense can get it done instead. Top 5 on offense and defense is incredibly solid, no matter who we played.

I am feeling pretty good about the team personally. =)

Bacchus
12-15-2012, 10:43 PM
The Broncos are better than you think. They are balanced. Which is a great thing. Offense has an off day? The defense can win it for us. Defense playing flat? Then the offense can get it done instead. Top 5 on offense and defense is incredibly solid, no matter who we played.

I am feeling pretty good about the team personally. =)

That is what I am saying. Denver has a top 5 offense and some people are complaining.

ghwk
12-15-2012, 11:13 PM
Every team in this league is afraid of us and does not want to play us. We areNOT the same team that we were in the first 4 games.

We can beat anyone and they know it.

ZONA
12-16-2012, 12:13 AM
Denver's offensive output the last 7 weeks.

26 points
31 points
17 points
30 points
36 points
31 points
34 points

you do realize that the teams the Broncos are playing get paid money to keep Denver from scoring right? The offense is fine as long as they do not turn the ball over.

Those point totals were not all by the offense. You need to go back and look at the box scores again. You will see some defensive TD's as well as special teams TD's. In fact, the Carolina game there as a defensive TD as well as a special teams TD both in that game. Von Miller had INT return for TD against Bucs. Holiday also had another TD against the Bengals. That's already 4 TD's there not by the offense. And if you go back 8 weeks, there were another 2 TD's scored by the defense.

Just sayin

Bacchus
12-16-2012, 12:51 AM
Those point totals were not all by the offense. You need to go back and look at the box scores again. You will see some defensive TD's as well as special teams TD's. In fact, the Carolina game there as a defensive TD as well as a special teams TD both in that game. Von Miller had INT return for TD against Bucs. Holiday also had another TD against the Bengals. That's already 4 TD's there not by the offense. And if you go back 8 weeks, there were another 2 TD's scored by the defense.

Just sayin

Denver scored 36 points against Carolina and won going away. How many more points would you have wanted the offense to score so you would feel satisfied?

The offense could have scored more if the defense and special teams would not have put points on the board.

Rohirrim
12-16-2012, 03:21 AM
Every team in this league is afraid of us and does not want to play us. We areNOT the same team that we were in the first 4 games.

We can beat anyone and they know it.

If there is one thing I'd like to see going into the playoffs it would be improvement in the turnover ratio. That can really make the difference in tight playoff games.

fontaine
12-18-2012, 05:36 AM
The OL really answered the call in the run game.

Pass blocking was ok, not great with Ramirez/Koppen/Franklin making individual errors but outside of that they really went to work on the Ravens front 7 who have a lot of stout defenders like Kruger, Upshaw, Kemateou, Ngata.

It was incredible to watch in the 4th quarter how our OL was winning in the trenches when in the past 4-6 years, December football was the time when our smallish OL used to be man handled.

baja
12-18-2012, 06:19 AM
If there is one thing I'd like to see going into the playoffs it would be improvement in the turnover ratio. That can really make the difference in tight playoff games.

after playing in negative territory (turnovers) all season we finally pulled to even for the season in the Ravens game.

v2micca
12-18-2012, 06:29 AM
Well, Baltimore is the last Play-off team we are going to play during the regular season. At this point, we are going to have to find a way to beat the Patriots. Unfortunately, beating the Patriots is going to probably be our first task of the post-season. And by that time, they will Probably have Gronkowski back. Fortunately, as long as we keep taking care of our business, we will get to play them at home. I'm willing to bet the Broncos/Patriots will be considered the marquee match-up of the second round.