Republicans make Michigan Right to Work

[Jetmeck]

24th state to do so............

Average wages of Right to Work state is 8-10 grand less than neighboring NON Right to work states........................

Poverty level higher in Right to Work states compared to NON Right to Work states as well.................

Sound like fun to you............

Unions built the middle class....DO NOT APPLY TO A UNION SHOP and start bitchin about I don't want to join a union or shouldn't have to join a union ?

Who do you think got the wages and benefits where you seek employment ? Who do you think is helping to maintain those benfits and increase them ?

You bet the unions.............so don't apply at a union shop if you don't want to join up................

Don't be a free loader on your fellow employees because they pay their dues .................

Use your head.............this is a simple right or wrong situation.

Republicans are after unions plane and simple...............

If it isn't women's right or abortion rights its worker's rights..........with these clowns.

Thanks for leaving a few of these republicans in....it keeps my blodd presuure at near boil levels......................

[broncocalijohn]

Jetmeck,
What are the unemployment numbers for right to work states and their competitors? How are the states ranked? I know Yahoo had something on best states based on economy and such and seemed many "republican" states were at the top. I know California was at the bottom. As for the first question I ask, I do not know the answer but might be a fair thread if we all can see what is going on with those states and especially those that are bordered with each other.

[broncocalijohn]

24th state to do so............

Who do you think got the wages and benefits where you seek employment ? Who do you think is helping to maintain those benfits and increase them ?

Don't be a free loader on your fellow employees because they pay their dues .................

........


First, does the benefit statement apply to public unions like the one that your wife works for in your state? Should state senators, assembly, governors, etc. get public's money or dues money to "bribe" those elected officials for higher increase in items you mentioned like benefits? Would that be considered a bribe? How do feel of the 100 billion dollar and growing (probably realistically at 250 billion dollars) deficit in the teachers and police/firefighter's pensions in states like California which is the home of the public sector unions?

Also, many union members don't have a problem with dues. It is the part of dues going to political parties that they are forced to pay into.

Lastly, you are not adding enough periods after some sentences. I suggest at least 18 or more. It is more effective. :~ohyah!:

[Jetmeck]

Jetmeck,
What are the unemployment numbers for right to work states and their competitors? How are the states ranked? I know Yahoo had something on best states based on economy and such and seemed many "republican" states were at the top. I know California was at the bottom. As for the first question I ask, I do not know the answer but might be a fair thread if we all can see what is going on with those states and especially those that are bordered with each other.


Good question.............lets put it this way. Neighboring poor ass Kansas and Oklahoma is putting pressure on Missouri to do this as well...............guess why.................figure it out ?

Lower wages........been in heated arguments with my Mo. SeNATOR OVER THIS.......they believe two 20-25k jobs are better than one 50k a year job.

20-25k a year is better than unemployment I will give ya BUT.. and its a big but...............Think you can pay rent or mortgage, car payment and still eat on 20-25k ?

Things are trending against workers and republicans are ready to be the diesel pulling the load along because they know unions are democrats bread and butter.............

Without unions labor HAS NO VOICE..................

wAKE UP CALL.............

This BS won't happen in MO............If they try it I will be in jail fightin it.

[mhgaffney]

Jetmeck has it right.

The so called right to work laws are a scam.

This is part of the roll back of the working class -- another step toward peonage.

[lonestar]

posted this in another thread..

the will of the people of MICHIGAN has spoken.


Unions Losing in Their Last Stronghold
Posted on December 11, 2012

This is the week that Michigan’s workers will finally be freed from forced unionization.

After decades of United Auto Workers control over the struggling American auto industry, the Michigan legislature’s passing of a right-to-work law is historic. Governor Rick Snyder (R) is expected to sign the law as early as tomorrow.

Regardless of news reports, the people of Michigan are behind this. A recent poll showed that 51 percent of Michigan voters support right-to-work. Only 41 percent are opposed. In fact, 40 percent of union households supported it. In November, Michigan voters rejected a ballot proposal that would have amended the state constitution to prevent the legislature from passing a right-to-work law and elevated union contracts above state law. The New York Times called it “a test case on enshrining the rights of unions,” and unions spent more than $23 million campaigning for the initiative. It lost by 15 points.
.
Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/unions-losing-in-their-last-stronghold/#ixzz2EnFDZ3sc


figured jetmeck and his rabid union rhetoric would be all over this..

I repeat..
the union spent $23,000,000.00 of union money READ union dues from hard working Americans trying to defeat it..

rabid responses 3,2,1

[Bob]

24th state to do so............

Average wages of Right to Work state is 8-10 grand less than neighboring NON Right to work states........................

Poverty level higher in Right to Work states compared to NON Right to Work states as well.................

Sound like fun to you............

Unions built the middle class....DO NOT APPLY TO A UNION SHOP and start b****in about I don't want to join a union or shouldn't have to join a union ?

Who do you think got the wages and benefits where you seek employment ? Who do you think is helping to maintain those benfits and increase them ?

You bet the unions.............so don't apply at a union shop if you don't want to join up................

Don't be a free loader on your fellow employees because they pay their dues .................

Use your head.............this is a simple right or wrong situation.

Republicans are after unions plane and simple...............

If it isn't women's right or abortion rights its worker's rights..........with these clowns.

Thanks for leaving a few of these republicans in....it keeps my blodd presuure at near boil levels......................

So a person should be forced to join a union against their will - and that makes you very angry? Seems like you have some control issues.

[sinuous sausage]

Unions contribute massively to the Democratic Party, and the Democratic Party sweetens the pot for union members during contract negotiations by basically elbowing the taxpayer off the table. With the speed at which the world changes and the ever-present need for corporations and institutions to adapt, it's stupid to forge these guaranteed and extended outlays when revenue is so fickle. People in the private sector don't have that luxury, and when the union pensions come due during a budget shortfall what do you think the Dems' answer will be?

[frerottenextelway]

I don't understand how this passes the First Amendment.

[Rohirrim]

Connect the dots: As unions have withered, the middle class's share of total income and wealth has dropped. The decline of the median wage in America over the last three decades correlates exactly with the declining percentage of American workers who are unionized.

And as the super-rich have grown even wealthier, they've been able to extend their power through the Supreme Court and the Republican Party -- advancing a war on the middle class.

These moneyed interests may lose a skirmish or two, particularly at the federal level when the public's attention is focused there (Michigan voters went overwhelmingly for President Obama and Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow on November 6). But the moneyed interests are patient and relentless and, as is evident in Michigan, able to strike suddenly with extraordinary organization and precision.

They've taken on our tax system, successfully raising taxes on the middle class and the poor (Social Security payroll taxes, sales taxes, and user fees) while reducing their own top marginal tax rates. They've taken on public spending -- cutting government workers and programs the poor and middle class depend on (teachers and school budgets, social workers and family support services, job training and unemployment insurance, to name only a few.)

And they've taken on the unions that once negotiated good wages on behalf of the middle class and of those who aspired to join it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/right-to-work-michigan_b_2278232.html

[lonestar]

So a person should be forced to join a union against their will - and that makes you very angry? Seems like you have some control issues.

Or need to be controlled. Or the need to have someone else speak for you.

[Rohirrim]

So a person should be forced to join a union against their will - and that makes you very angry? Seems like you have some control issues.

You remind me of Scalia.

[gunns]

Right to Work States

Alabama
Arizona †
Arkansas †
Florida †
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana[30]
Iowa
Kansas †
Louisiana
Michigan[31]
Mississippi †
Nebraska ††
Nevada
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma †
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Wyoming

Unemployment rates as of 11/20

1 NORTH DAKOTA 3.1
2 NEBRASKA 3.8
3 SOUTH DAKOTA 4.5
4 IOWA 5.1
5 UTAH 5.2
5 WYOMING 5.2
7 OKLAHOMA 5.3
8 HAWAII 5.5
8 VERMONT 5.5
10 KANSAS 5.7
10 NEW HAMPSHIRE 5.7
10 VIRGINIA 5.7
13 MINNESOTA 5.8
14 MONTANA 6.0
15 NEW MEXICO 6.3
16 LOUISIANA 6.6
16 MASSACHUSETTS 6.6
16 TEXAS 6.6
19 MARYLAND 6.7
20 DELAWARE 6.8
21 MISSOURI 6.9
21 OHIO 6.9
21 WISCONSIN 6.9
24 IDAHO 7.0
25 ALASKA 7.1
26 ARKANSAS 7.2
27 MAINE 7.4
28 WEST VIRGINIA 7.5
29 COLORADO 7.9
30 INDIANA 8.0
31 ALABAMA 8.1
31 ARIZONA 8.1
31 PENNSYLVANIA 8.1
34 TENNESSEE 8.2
34 WASHINGTON 8.2
36 KENTUCKY 8.4
37 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 8.5
37 FLORIDA 8.5
39 OREGON 8.6
39 SOUTH CAROLINA 8.6
41 GEORGIA 8.7
41 NEW YORK 8.7
43 ILLINOIS 8.8
44 MISSISSIPPI 8.9
45 CONNECTICUT 9.0
46 MICHIGAN 9.1
47 NORTH CAROLINA 9.3
48 NEW JERSEY 9.7
49 CALIFORNIA 10.1
50 RHODE ISLAND 10.4
51 NEVADA 11.5

Somebody asked.

[sinuous sausage]

According to the West Michigan Policy Forum, of the 10 states with the highest rate of personal income growth, eight have right-to-work laws. Those numbers are driving a net migration from forced union states: Between 2000 and 2010, five million people moved to right-to-work states from compulsory union states.

Mr. Vedder also found a 23% higher rate of per capita income growth in right-to-work states. An analysis by the Taxpayers Protection Alliance finds that Michigan is now the 35th state in overall prosperity measured by per capita income. Had Michigan adopted a right-to-work law in 1977, the group estimates, per capita income for a family of four would have been $13,556 higher by 2008.

http://on.wsj.com/VSVVOx

[sinuous sausage]

Connect the dots: As unions have withered, the middle class's share of total income and wealth has dropped. The decline of the median wage in America over the last three decades correlates exactly with the declining percentage of American workers who are unionized.

And as the super-rich have grown even wealthier, they've been able to extend their power through the Supreme Court and the Republican Party -- advancing a war on the middle class.

These moneyed interests may lose a skirmish or two, particularly at the federal level when the public's attention is focused there (Michigan voters went overwhelmingly for President Obama and Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow on November 6). But the moneyed interests are patient and relentless and, as is evident in Michigan, able to strike suddenly with extraordinary organization and precision.

They've taken on our tax system, successfully raising taxes on the middle class and the poor (Social Security payroll taxes, sales taxes, and user fees) while reducing their own top marginal tax rates. They've taken on public spending -- cutting government workers and programs the poor and middle class depend on (teachers and school budgets, social workers and family support services, job training and unemployment insurance, to name only a few.)

And they've taken on the unions that once negotiated good wages on behalf of the middle class and of those who aspired to join it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/right-to-work-michigan_b_2278232.html

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9kccgfFhu1qcoc21o1_500.png

[Rohirrim]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9kccgfFhu1qcoc21o1_500.png

Sorry. Too vague for me. Is there an argument there?

[frerottenextelway]

I don't understand how this passes the First Amendment.

Seriously, I'm open-minded on this one. Someone make an argument why the 1st doesn't imply here... And more techically the 14th In conjunction with the First and the prior USSP rulings. Teabaggots are supposed to be constition people, what is your explanation?

[sinuous sausage]

Sorry. Too vague for me. Is there an argument there?

The article you linked is an excellent example of a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The comic was an attempt at humor in that vein.

[sinuous sausage]

Seriously, I'm open-minded on this one. Someone make an argument why the 1st doesn't imply here... And more techically the 14th In conjunction with the First and the prior USSP rulings. Teabaggots are supposed to be constition people, what is your explanation?

I'm lost as to what you're talking about, old scout. I thought you were referencing the First Amendment in support of the Michigan law. The 14th amendment had to do with racial segregation if memory serves (promise I didn't look it up!), and I'm unsure of the context in which you'd advance an argument on that line.

[Bob]

Connect the dots: As unions have withered, the middle class's share of total income and wealth has dropped. The decline of the median wage in America over the last three decades correlates exactly with the declining percentage of American workers who are unionized.

And as the super-rich have grown even wealthier, they've been able to extend their power through the Supreme Court and the Republican Party -- advancing a war on the middle class.

These moneyed interests may lose a skirmish or two, particularly at the federal level when the public's attention is focused there (Michigan voters went overwhelmingly for President Obama and Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow on November 6). But the moneyed interests are patient and relentless and, as is evident in Michigan, able to strike suddenly with extraordinary organization and precision.

They've taken on our tax system, successfully raising taxes on the middle class and the poor (Social Security payroll taxes, sales taxes, and user fees) while reducing their own top marginal tax rates. They've taken on public spending -- cutting government workers and programs the poor and middle class depend on (teachers and school budgets, social workers and family support services, job training and unemployment insurance, to name only a few.)

And they've taken on the unions that once negotiated good wages on behalf of the middle class and of those who aspired to join it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/right-to-work-michigan_b_2278232.html

Or one could move to states like Montana and North Dakota, who actually have jobs and have the freedom to create jobs...btw, I always buy American cars, that are unionized - but I sure pay allot for it.

[Rohirrim]

Or one could move to states like Montana and North Dakota, who actually have jobs and have the freedom to create jobs...btw, I always buy American cars, that are unionized - but I sure pay allot for it.

Those who think that this is the final act for people like the Koch Bros. (and their humorously misnamed organization "Americans for Prosperity" Ha!) as they work to destroy unions are fooling themselves:

"The anti-union campaigns of the last three years, starting with Wisconsin, have really been driven ... by big national organizations and money," said Lafer, a union member and who teaches labor studies at the University of Oregon.

"I think an important question to think about is: Why are big private companies spending a lot of money and energy fighting public sector unions?
"They want more free trade, lower minimum wage, the right not to pay sick leave, and all those things which are not per se about union contracts. But the biggest single opponent they have is the labor movement, even in its shrunken and weaker state."

Lafer blames businesses and key business figures for lobbying to push such laws "not because of what unions are doing now for their own members but to get them out of the way on issues that will affect everybody else."

These campaigns stigmatize unions and encourage people who are unemployed to resent unions rather than big business leaders, he argued.
"Their fear is populism," he said, referring to those who are "at the top of the economy, during downward mobility."

"They want the discontent to not be aimed at people running the economy."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/us/union-power-analysis/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Union membership was at 20% in 1980. Now it's at 7%. Why keep going after it?

The destruction of unions is only the first act. Once the unions are dead, they go after the laws, like the forty hour week, time and a half for overtime, minimum wage, sick time, holiday pay, maternity leave, etc etc etc. They throw around the language of "free trade" and "competition" and their favorite, "globalization" and in reality, the only operative word here is "greed."

What are the other items on their agenda? They don't want to pay any more taxes for Social Security, or Medicare, or Medicaid. They don't want to pay for pensions or health care. Hell, they don't even want to pay for infrastructure. They want no taxes on capital gains. Even less than 15% is not good enough. They want no estate taxes. No corporate taxes. Anybody looking at the American corporate landscape can easily see the direction we're headed.

Who gets a Walmart? Those communities who pay for the privilege. Who gets the factory and the jobs? Those communities and states that pay for the privilege. And those who receive that privilege, of jobs, better shut their ****ing mouths and do what they're told, or they'll be replaced.

The corporatists are the "job creators!" The heroes of the modern economies! They bring FREE TRADE! Look at the language they've created. Orwell would be proud. They will create a system of wage slavery and modern feudalism and call it free trade. How soon before you dummies are working for the company store? Ha!

Free trade? Competition? Globalization? Man. What a bunch of suckers.

[Rohirrim]

The article you linked is an excellent example of a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The comic was an attempt at humor in that vein.

Let me acquaint you with another phrase, although I can't put it into fancy Latin: Where there's smoke, there's fire. Some can see what is there. Some believe only the language that is presented to them.

[Bob]

24th state to do so............

Average wages of Right to Work state is 8-10 grand less than neighboring NON Right to work states........................

Poverty level higher in Right to Work states compared to NON Right to Work states as well.................

Sound like fun to you............

Unions built the middle class....DO NOT APPLY TO A UNION SHOP and start b****in about I don't want to join a union or shouldn't have to join a union ?

Who do you think got the wages and benefits where you seek employment ? Who do you think is helping to maintain those benfits and increase them ?

You bet the unions.............so don't apply at a union shop if you don't want to join up................

Don't be a free loader on your fellow employees because they pay their dues .................

Use your head.............this is a simple right or wrong situation.

Republicans are after unions plane and simple...............

If it isn't women's right or abortion rights its worker's rights..........with these clowns.

Thanks for leaving a few of these republicans in....it keeps my blodd presuure at near boil levels......................

You should use violence to solve all of your differences with others -- that's what some other union folks are doing - its part of the revolution against America, after all. My great grandfather was murdered by union thugs in Chicago after he dared work outside of the union. Think long and hard about what tradition you are seeking to force upon others...forcing Americans who don't want to be a part of unions to become union members is part of the Marxist tradition - not ours. If that gets you angry, then it reflects the type of person you have become.

"There might be nothing more rich than the irony of seeing a big bunch of supposedly pro-choice union liberals protesting angrily because conservatives want to allow people to choose whether or not they’ll join a labor union. That irony took a scary turn on Tuesday when the union protesters outside the Michigan capitol building in Lansing physically assaulted conservative Fox News reporter Steven Crowder, leaving Crowder with a chipped tooth and a minor cut on his forehead. The mob of angry protesters also stormed and tore down a tent being used by Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group that was also covering the protests. Crowder was otherwise uninjured, but a video of the attack posted on YouTube showed that attackers also shouted obscenity-laced threats to kill him. What a relief to know that the kind of violent, mob-action protests we’ve seen across the Middle East stand no chance of happening here! Oh, wait..."

[Rohirrim]

You should use violence to solve all of your differences with others -- that's what some other union folks are doing - its part of the revolution against America, after all. My great grandfather was murdered by union thugs in Chicago after he dared work outside of the union. Think long and hard about what tradition you are seeking to force upon others...forcing Americans who don't want to be a part of unions to become union members is part of the Marxist tradition - not ours. If that gets you angry, then it reflects the type of person you have become.

"There might be nothing more rich than the irony of seeing a big bunch of supposedly pro-choice union liberals protesting angrily because conservatives want to allow people to choose whether or not they’ll join a labor union. That irony took a scary turn on Tuesday when the union protesters outside the Michigan capitol building in Lansing physically assaulted conservative Fox News reporter Steven Crowder, leaving Crowder with a chipped tooth and a minor cut on his forehead. The mob of angry protesters also stormed and tore down a tent being used by Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group that was also covering the protests. Crowder was otherwise uninjured, but a video of the attack posted on YouTube showed that attackers also shouted obscenity-laced threats to kill him. What a relief to know that the kind of violent, mob-action protests we’ve seen across the Middle East stand no chance of happening here! Oh, wait..."

You are a bacterium in the belly of the beast.

BTW, the custom around here is to accredit quotes.

[Bob]

You are a bacterium in the belly of the beast.

BTW, the custom around here is to accredit quotes.

In the beast of tyranny?? I hope so.

[Rohirrim]

In the beast of tyranny?? I hope so.

Yeah. When union members were getting beaten with bats and machine-gunned by corporate thugs in order to win for American workers the forty hour week and the minimum wage, they were doing the work of Josef Stalin. :rofl:

[sinuous sausage]

Let me acquaint you with another phrase, although I can't put it into fancy Latin: Where there's smoke, there's fire. Some can see what is there. Some believe only the language that is presented to them.

well what's your criteria for determining what is actually happening then? people who think outlays on guaranteed union pensions and perks are a major driver of government debt have just as strong a correlative argument as you do. ditto for those who cast an eye over to European morass and draw parallels between the heavily unionized, economically stagnant societies over there and the insolvent blue states over here. anyone can engage in confirmation bias and pick whatever evidence suits his or her theory.

this isn't even bringing to question the morality of forcing a person to contribute to causes he or she may not believe in. coercion is one of the most rotten things imaginable.

[sinuous sausage]

Yeah. When union members were getting beaten with bats and machine-gunned by corporate thugs in order to win for American workers the forty hour week and the minimum wage, they were doing the work of Josef Stalin. :rofl:

http://on.wsj.com/UU9uuF

:wave:

[Rohirrim]

well what's your criteria for determining what is actually happening then? people who think outlays on guaranteed union pensions and perks are a major driver of government debt have just as strong a correlative argument as you do. ditto for those who cast an eye over to European morass and draw parallels between the heavily unionized, economically stagnant societies over there and the insolvent blue states over here. anyone can engage in confirmation bias and pick whatever evidence suits his or her theory.

this isn't even bringing to question the morality of forcing a person to contribute to causes he or she may not believe in. coercion is one of the most rotten things imaginable.

It's an odd thing in modern, American dialogue. When something is broken, the solution is to throw it out. All of it. So, unions go overboard, losing sight of their original purpose, and what is the corrective action? We need to get rid of them! Wipe them out! The funny thing is, that when Wall Street cried for deregulation, got it, and then bankrupted the nation, what did we do? Seize control of the financial firms? Arrest and jail the offenders? End too big to fail forever? Bring down the regulatory hammer on their heads?

Nope. We gave them billions in taxpayer funds to help them through the rough patch. And now they want to use this campaign against the commie, traitor unions as a wedge against all manner of social programs. "See the commie unions? Well, folks, they're just like that commie Social Security and those commie pensions for the working class, and that commie Medicare."

Pensions for workers are a commie evil. Multi-million dollar golden parachutes for greedy bastards who close down companies and put workers out on the street are just sound business.

There seem to be two, grossly unequal narratives in operation here.

[Rohirrim]

http://on.wsj.com/UU9uuF

:wave:

Yeah. Well, we killed a bunch of Brits to free ourselves from King George the III's control as well.

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

:wave:

[lonestar]

listen up the right to work laws do not BAN unions..

The law imposes no limitation on unions' ability to organize, to engage in collective bargaining, or to strike. It merely forbids them to take money out of the pockets of workers who do not wish to join them.

Right-to-work laws do not necessarily hobble unions; rather, they force unions to compete for resources and prove their value to their workers. Some unions provide obvious value: In places in which private-sector unions already are strongly established, right-to-work laws have in fact had little effect on union membership. The critical difference is that workers have a choice.

Read this on the Web at http://patriotpost.us/editions/15864/

some of y'all act like they are strangling puppies..

Perhaps if the unions did not waste millions of dues on fat cat salaries and benefits for the union bosses as well as hundreds of millions on bribing government officials and campaign ads more folks would have a better feeling about them..

Union membership would not be dwindling.. MOST union members are not stupid like the leadership seem to think and treat them that way....

[lonestar]

Teamsters Top Thug James Hoffa: There Will Be A “Civil War” Over Michigan’s Right-To-Work Law
Posted on December 12, 2012 by Cowboy Byte

Jimmy Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, said Tuesday he expects Michigan unions and lawmakers to break out into “civil war” after the state legislature passed right-to-work bills that would weaken unions’ power.

“This is just the first round of a battle that’s going to divide this state. We’re going to have a civil war,” Hoffa said on CNN’s “Newsroom.

As thousands of protestors gathered at the state capitol on Tuesday, Hoffa called the legislation a “tremendous mistake” and “a monumental decision to make” by outgoing lawmakers in a lame duck session.

“What they’re doing is basically betraying democracy,” he told CNN’s Brooke Baldwin. “If there’s any question here, let’s put it on the ballot and let the people of Michigan decide what’s good for Michigan.”

Read more: http://cowboybyte.com/16171/teamsters-top-thug-james-hoffa-there-will-be-a-civil-war-over-michigans-right-to-work-law/#ixzz2Erv3uvLf

the orange was a close to YELLOW as I could get it..

[broncocalijohn]

listen up the right to work laws do not BAN unions..



Read this on the Web at http://patriotpost.us/editions/15864/

some of y'all act like they are strangling puppies..

Perhaps if the unions did not waste millions of dues on fat cat salaries and benefits for the union bosses as well as hundreds of millions on bribing government officials and campaign ads more folks would have a better feeling about them..

Union membership would not be dwindling.. MOST union members are not stupid like the leadership seem to think and treat them that way....

THe propraganda I receive at my house says otherwise. Many are sheep and think their union can do no wrong. It is the greed mentality that had the unions yelling at Wall Street is now with themselves. They have joined what they thought was evil but they now hide behind a wall of lies by lambasting corporations.
There is fat cat salaries on both sides so don't kid yourself Lonestar. Unions hide behind a blue collar instead of a white collar but the motives are the same. Get as much money as possible. Unions get it now and in the future with pensions. Wall Street is always trying to get it and would prefer it in the present. Both sides need to change but the difference is that the unions, and especially the public sector unions, need OUR MONEY to survive and it is much easier to see as a citizen.

[cutthemdown]

Not a big deal. if the unions provide good enough service to the member the vast majority will join and pay the dues. I have a lot of friends in unions and some of them say the union doesn't do a damn thing for them anymore. I'm in Calif and its all messed up here all over so maybe that isn't a great slice to judge, but still I see this as making unions show the members we do a lot for you. Otherwise they wont get paid.

[Crushaholic]

I don't understand how this passes the First Amendment.

How WHAT passes the First Amendment? A Right To Work law is more in the spirit of the First Amendment, than a policy FORCING employees to join a union...

[lonestar]

THe propraganda I receive at my house says otherwise. Many are sheep and think their union can do no wrong. It is the greed mentality that had the unions yelling at Wall Street is now with themselves. They have joined what they thought was evil but they now hide behind a wall of lies by lambasting corporations.
There is fat cat salaries on both sides so don't kid yourself Lonestar. Unions hide behind a blue collar instead of a white collar but the motives are the same. Get as much money as possible. Unions get it now and in the future with pensions. Wall Street is always trying to get it and would prefer it in the present. Both sides need to change but the difference is that the unions, and especially the public sector unions, need OUR MONEY to survive and it is much easier to see as a citizen.

Hey I was trying to be nice.

I know the union thugs I had teamsters I used to negotiate with and they'd only looked out for themselves.

The last time we were willing to give about 40 cents an hour (budgeted numbers) but the union rep caved in a heartbeat when we offered an extra car and one of our reserved parking spots for it on the first floor. Wound up giving the service guys less than a quarter an hour, when I looked at the deal after everything was said and done the car cost us about $165 in lease fees anothe parking was about 40 per month. It was saving my LAX operation about 5 grand a month. The greedy bastard wanted a newer car to drive and fatso did not want to have to walk up to the third floor.

He told the service guys that it was a good deal. And they bought it.

But again I was trying to be nice, Because some (very few) unions are legit and do the right thing for the dues.

I also was trying hard not to put jetmeck into a apoplectic seizure, since he is a no brainer union guy.

[lonestar]

Not a big deal. if the unions provide good enough service to the member the vast majority will join and pay the dues. I have a lot of friends in unions and some of them say the union doesn't do a damn thing for them anymore. I'm in Calif and its all messed up here all over so maybe that isn't a great slice to judge, but still I see this as making unions show the members we do a lot for you. Otherwise they wont get paid.
:thumbs:

An amazing concept having to work for your salary.

[Bob]

Yeah. When union members were getting beaten with bats and machine-gunned by corporate thugs in order to win for American workers the forty hour week and the minimum wage, they were doing the work of Josef Stalin. :rofl:

Stalin, the leftist would just shoot folks he didn't like. The left in America usually only punch and beat those with whom they disagree - kinda like what happened in Michigan recently.

[Bob]

Teamsters Top Thug James Hoffa: There Will Be A “Civil War” Over Michigan’s Right-To-Work Law
Posted on December 12, 2012 by Cowboy Byte

Read more: http://cowboybyte.com/16171/teamsters-top-thug-james-hoffa-there-will-be-a-civil-war-over-michigans-right-to-work-law/#ixzz2Erv3uvLf

the orange was a close to YELLOW as I could get it..

Hoffa doesn't understand that we live in a republic.

[Rohirrim]

Stalin, the leftist would just shoot folks he didn't like.

So did Henry Ford, the friend of Adolph Hitler.

[Jetmeck]

posted this in another thread..

the will of the people of MICHIGAN has spoken.


.
Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/unions-losing-in-their-last-stronghold/#ixzz2EnFDZ3sc


figured jetmeck and his rabid union rhetoric would be all over this..

I repeat..
the union spent $23,000,000.00 of union money READ union dues from hard working Americans trying to defeat it..

rabid responses 3,2,1



I figured this lieing republican union and labor hating prick would show up...................

Right to Work gets voted down thats why it was not left up to the people..................See OHIO and Wisconsin.

This won't stand..........

Big money Koch Bro and etc behind this.

It is politically motivated to hurt democrats because they give labor a voice...........without theis voice we all ****ed because the people will never be heard............

Go ahead you POS deny it.............

[Jetmeck]

Not a big deal. if the unions provide good enough service to the member the vast majority will join and pay the dues. I have a lot of friends in unions and some of them say the union doesn't do a damn thing for them anymore. I'm in Calif and its all messed up here all over so maybe that isn't a great slice to judge, but still I see this as making unions show the members we do a lot for you. Otherwise they wont get paid.



I'll continue your point, you don't want to pay for wages and benefits the union got for your fellow employees then don't expect to get those benefits for free.....................talk about freeloaders..............you repb pricks should be all over this............except this helps your party..................I see you are two faced when it is convenient !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[Jetmeck]

So a person should be forced to join a union against their will - and that makes you very angry? Seems like you have some control issues.

Why did you apply to a union shop ?

Because they have good pay and benefits ?

There you go............you want what others helped get for free ?

I understand.............

[Jetmeck]

listen up the right to work laws do not BAN unions..



Read this on the Web at http://patriotpost.us/editions/15864/

some of y'all act like they are strangling puppies..

Perhaps if the unions did not waste millions of dues on fat cat salaries and benefits for the union bosses as well as hundreds of millions on bribing government officials and campaign ads more folks would have a better feeling about them..

Union membership would not be dwindling.. MOST union members are not stupid like the leadership seem to think and treat them that way....



Stupid old ****s like you are the exception......a NORMAL person of your age knows the struggles of labor and what they went through to get decent wages and bennys and work rules and safety.

Your the exception and everyone knows it.

The young ones don't remeber what labor went through and taKE EVERYHTING WE HAVE TODAY FOR GRANTED..........THIS IS THE PROBLEM !

[Jetmeck]

Or need to be controlled. Or the need to have someone else speak for you.


iDIOT OF MONUMENTAL PROPORTIONS............

oBviously the rest of us know the corporate money and power the working people are up against the fact is the unions are the people's largest voice.

UR a dumbass

[Jetmeck]

THe propraganda I receive at my house says otherwise. Many are sheep and think their union can do no wrong. It is the greed mentality that had the unions yelling at Wall Street is now with themselves. They have joined what they thought was evil but they now hide behind a wall of lies by lambasting corporations.
There is fat cat salaries on both sides so don't kid yourself Lonestar. Unions hide behind a blue collar instead of a white collar but the motives are the same. Get as much money as possible. Unions get it now and in the future with pensions. Wall Street is always trying to get it and would prefer it in the present. Both sides need to change but the difference is that the unions, and especially the public sector unions, need OUR MONEY to survive and it is much easier to see as a citizen.



Nothing is perfect for shrist sake...but I want a voice in what happens.

We barely have a voice at the table now, what exactly do you people think will hapen if the largest voice of the people and worker's is silenced ?

Think about it.....................

[lonestar]

just noticed jetmeck has been heard from

No doubt someone needs to go to his house , and apply CPR..

Oh wait call his union bosses since he is a union whore..

Guessing he did not read that it still allows Unions to try to organize more morons..

[Rohirrim]

:thumbs:

An amazing concept having to work for your salary.

What a difficult life you must have, being the only working man in America. Ha!

[lonestar]

What a difficult life you must have, being the only working man in America. Ha!

Actually I retired a couple of years ago..

not sure what rock you have been hiding under not to know that ..

As I have said in many a thread I worked for a living, invested well and am a happy camper in retirement..

One of the little joys of life is coming on here and crapping in the liberals frontier in this part of the Mane..

[Rohirrim]

Actually I retired a couple of years ago..

not sure what rock you have been hiding under not to know that ..

As I have said in many a thread I worked for a living, invested well and am a happy camper in retirement..

One of the little joys of life is coming on here and crapping in the liberals frontier in this part of the Mane..

I guess some people do get a certain joy out of being aholes. I've never understood it, but I've seen a whole bunch of angry old men who think it's a satisfying way to wrap up a life.

[lonestar]

I guess some people do get a certain joy out of being aholes. I've never understood it, but I've seen a whole bunch of angry old men who think it's a satisfying way to wrap up a life.

NO I just get a kick out of beating up on aholes (read dumocrats)..
especially those that proclaim themselves to be great in a politic side of a football forum..

I can justify spending time on here you libs should be out there working..

If you are spending this much time on here you are either stealing from your company, using internet broad band and company time, own the company or unemployed which means your another 47%ter moron..

I'm going to bed as I'm expecting a call from the white house at 0300..

ahahahahahahaha

Actually I'm overseeing the completion of the carport I'm having built to shield my Audi A5 Sline Turbo from the harsh El Paso sun.. so have to be ready when the NON UNION construction crews get here..

[sinuous sausage]

It's an odd thing in modern, American dialogue. When something is broken, the solution is to throw it out. All of it. So, unions go overboard, losing sight of their original purpose, and what is the corrective action? We need to get rid of them! Wipe them out! The funny thing is, that when Wall Street cried for deregulation, got it, and then bankrupted the nation, what did we do? Seize control of the financial firms? Arrest and jail the offenders? End too big to fail forever? Bring down the regulatory hammer on their heads?

Nope. We gave them billions in taxpayer funds to help them through the rough patch. And now they want to use this campaign against the commie, traitor unions as a wedge against all manner of social programs. "See the commie unions? Well, folks, they're just like that commie Social Security and those commie pensions for the working class, and that commie Medicare."

Pensions for workers are a commie evil. Multi-million dollar golden parachutes for greedy bastards who close down companies and put workers out on the street are just sound business.

There seem to be two, grossly unequal narratives in operation here.

lulz. you sound like a scorned tea-partier. have you ever checked out their platform? letting insolvent banks fail and not bailing Wall Street out with taxpayer money. good times.

of course, you see regulation as the proper impulse whereas they believe nominal regulation effectively pans out as collusion between investment banks and the highest legal authority in the land, the federal government. I think there are arguments for both, but I don't see what it really has to do with unions getting theirs at the expense of the broader community. cities and states are going bankrupt, and it will only get worse as revenues falter and these pensions (fat pensions) start coming due. it's your every right to squabble on the division of the eggs, but the grown-ups among us should probably start concerning ourselves with the health of the goose. many union members who wish to act like responsible adults are banished from doing so in states that mandate union assimilation, and I for one see that as a egregious injustice. never mind the economic boon I think the bill ultimately ends up giving to the community.

For the sake of the middle class, I hope it goes forward as planned.

[Rohirrim]

NO I just get a kick out of beating up on aholes (read dumocrats)..
especially those that proclaim themselves to be great in a politic side of a football forum..

I can justify spending time on here you libs should be out there working..

If you are spending this much time on here you are either stealing from your company, using internet broad band and company time, own the company or unemployed which means your another 47%ter moron..

I'm going to bed as I'm expecting a call from the white house at 0300..

ahahahahahahaha

Actually I'm overseeing the completion of the carport I'm having built to shield my Audi A5 Sline Turbo from the harsh El Paso sun.. so have to be ready when the NON UNION construction crews get here..

So, what you're saying is that you make assumptions about people you've never met and know nothing about, judge them, and then bask in the delusion of superiority.

The very definition of: Ahole.

No surprise that you live in the rectum of the United States.

BTW, German cars are for pussies.

:wave:

[sinuous sausage]

So, what you're saying is that you make assumptions about people you know nothing about, judge them, and then bask in the delusion of superiority.

The very definition of: Ahole.

No surprise that you live in the rectum of the United States.

BTW, German cars suck.

:wave:

whoa meow. slow your roll.

[sinuous sausage]

So, what you're saying is that you make assumptions about people you've never met and know nothing about, judge them, and then bask in the delusion of superiority.

The very definition of: Ahole.

No surprise that you live in the rectum of the United States.

BTW, German cars are for pussies.

:wave:

slightly better, but still errant.

[Rohirrim]

whoa meow. slow your roll.

I wouldn't own one. For the same money, you can do a whole lot better. Hell, you can do better with much less money and spend the rest on something else. ;D

[Rohirrim]

lulz. you sound like a scorned tea-partier. have you ever checked out their platform? letting insolvent banks fail and not bailing Wall Street out with taxpayer money. good times.

of course, you see regulation as the proper impulse whereas they believe nominal regulation effectively pans out as collusion between investment banks and the highest legal authority in the land, the federal government. I think there are arguments for both, but I don't see what it really has to do with unions getting theirs at the expense of the broader community. cities and states are going bankrupt, and it will only get worse as revenues falter and these pensions (fat pensions) start coming due. it's your every right to squabble on the division of the eggs, but the grown-ups among us should probably start concerning ourselves with the health of the goose. many union members who wish to act like responsible adults are banished from doing so in states that mandate union assimilation, and I for one see that as a egregious injustice. never mind the economic boon I think the bill ultimately ends up giving to the community.

For the sake of the middle class, I hope it goes forward as planned.

Geez. You're not one of those "small government" libertarians are you? Let's argue about unicorns. You know, the North Koreans found one of their lairs. ;D

[sinuous sausage]

Geez. You're not one of those "small government" libertarians are you? Let's argue about unicorns. You know, the North Koreans found one of their lairs. ;D

well I ain't a "big gubbmint" liberal. I tried to be, to fit in at college and all, but history and brushes with humanity kept foiling my attempts.

[Rohirrim]

well I ain't a "big gubbmint" liberal. I tried to be, to fit in at college and all, but history and brushes with humanity kept foiling my attempts.

I think it's only propaganda that accuses the Left of wanting "government for every problem." I certainly don't buy it. In fact, I think the military/industrial/congressional complex is completely out of control. So are corporate subsidies, lobbyists and campaigns "for sale." On the other hand, I think that those who say no government means everything is magically fixed are living in la la land.

[sinuous sausage]

I think it's only propaganda that accuses the Left of wanting "government for every problem." I certainly don't buy it. In fact, I think the military/industrial/congressional complex is completely out of control. So are corporate subsidies, lobbyists and campaigns "for sale." On the other hand, I think that those who say no government means everything is magically fixed are living in la la land.

i agree. but everyone differs on what "smart government" looks like, and everyone has different ideas as to what to expect from their fellow man in society. some are codependent, and fantasize about some single human consciousness where personalities disappear in one great humming orgasm of sentimentality. others think that sounds like pure ****ing hell.

[lonestar]

So, what you're saying is that you make assumptions about people you know nothing about, judge them, and then bask in the delusion of superiority.

The very definition of: Ahole.

No surprise that you live in the rectum of the United States.

BTW, German cars are for pussies.

:wave:

Pray tell how does one spend as much time on here as some do IF they are gainfully employeed.

Posting at all times of the day or night, that means they are either either stealing from their company, by using company assets to do so, using bandwidth, computers and company time to do so.

They own the company and are wasting their time when they could be productive doing sometime else. A job they are paying someone else to do.

They are unemployeed sucking on the government teat..

They are independently wealthy.. What are those odds ahahahahahaha

They are stay at home spouses, which means the kids are being neglected or chores are not being done which IMO means you are stealing from your spouse since they wind up doing those chores. Or have to pay someone to do them.

They are college student that could be studying, which is just cheating yourself.

Maybe there are some other scenarios but I'd guess those would fit about 99% of the poster on here during normal working hours.

Now I will grant that some are diligent employees only posting on breaks on their own airtime on their own mobile devices. But what are those odds in today's society.

German cars suck yeah sure. This one beats any and all Detroit iron I have ever driven and since I used to be a fleet manager that means all of them. Nor has any of the car rentals I get when I travel come close to this Audi or even the Volvo I drove before it.

The Audi has an 8 speed transmission, turbo 4 cylinder that gets 35+mpg at above highway speeds fully loaded.

Do I feel superior? You figure it out.

[Rohirrim]

Pray tell how does one spend as much time on here as some do IF they are gainfully employeed.

Posting at all times of the day or night, that means they are either either stealing from their company, by using company assets to do so, using bandwidth, computers and company time to do so.

They own the company and are wasting their time when they could be productive doing sometime else. A job they are paying someone else to do.

They are unemployeed sucking on the government teat..

They are independently wealthy.. What are those odds ahahahahahaha

They are stay at home spouses, which means the kids are being neglected or chores are not being done which IMO means you are stealing from your spouse since they wind up doing those chores. Or have to pay someone to do them.

They are college student that could be studying, which is just cheating yourself.

Maybe there are some other scenarios but I'd guess those would fit about 99% of the poster on here during normal working hours.

Now I will grant that some are diligent employees only posting on breaks on their own airtime on their own mobile devices. But what are those odds in today's society.

German cars suck yeah sure. This one beats any and all Detroit iron I have ever driven and since I used to be a fleet manager that means all of them. Nor has any of the car rentals I get when I travel come close to this Audi or even the Volvo I drove before it.

The Audi has an 8 speed transmission, turbo 4 cylinder that gets 35+mpg at above highway speeds fully loaded.

Do I feel superior? You figure it out.

Or, they are retired. Like you. And wasting all their golden years bitching and whining. Ha!

[lonestar]

Right-to-Work in Michigan: 24 down, 26 to go
By Doug Patton December 13, 2012 6:55 am


Back in the late 1970s, when the now-legendary Lee Iacocca took the reins at Chrysler, he was reputed to have told the union bosses, “Look, boys, I’ve got a shotgun to your head. I’ve got thousands of jobs at seventeen bucks an hour. I’ve got no jobs at twenty.”

And that’s when most Americans would have loved to be making $17 an hour.

Iacocca, of course, had put his money where his mouth was, taking over the ailing corporation for a salary of $1 per year and slashing management pay, while borrowing what today seems like a paltry sum of a couple of billion dollars. By 1983, the company had paid it all back, returning a tidy profit of $350 million to the taxpayer coffers.

Fast forward to 2012. Barack Obama has bailed out Chrysler and General Motors — or, more accurately, bailed out the United Auto Workers (UAW) by handing them ownership of the bonds held by the rightful investors — to the tune of somewhere between $80 billion and $100 billion. Both companies are still struggling, although to hear Obama tell the tale, they are a great American success story, thanks to his largess with our money.

Obama, who has not stopped campaigning since first declaring his candidacy five years ago (in all fairness, it is all the man knows how to do), just happened to be on the road again — in Detroit, of all places — on the very day the legislature was passing and Gov. Rick Snyder was signing historic legislation to make Michigan a right-to-work state. And a month after Obama himself had won the state handily in his own re-election bid, with massive help from the UAW, no less. Who could ever have imagined?

For Michiganders, this was do-or-die time. Detroit, a once-mighty industrial city of 1.8 million people in its heyday, has been reduced to a shell of its former self, gasping along with a population of 800,000, many of them poor and unemployed. Entire sections of the city resemble the worst of parts of the Bronx or bombed-out Beirut in the 1970s. Motor City, as it was once known, is now a ghetto where boarded-up homes can be purchased for $1,000 as entire neighborhoods sit abandoned.

As the city disintegrated before their eyes, it is as though the liberals who ran the place for the last 50 years could not see what was happening. Good jobs, building American cars, went elsewhere. Ford started building some of its products in Mexico. GM increasingly utilized Canadian labor across the northern border. And Lee Iacocca’s beloved Chrysler got passed around from one foreign owner to another (currently the Italian company Fiat).

Meanwhile, German, Japanese and Korean automakers began setting up shop in business-friendly states, paying good wages, with good benefits, for building good cars in places like Indiana, Tennessee and South Carolina, states that do not require a worker to pay dues to a union to get a job. But in Michigan, the UAW continued along as if it were still the 1950s and they were the only people who could build automobiles.

In its post-war glory years, the UAW could dictate contract terms to the management of the “Big Three.” After all, where else could Americans — or anyone else — go to buy a decent car in those days? Europe and Japan were in rubble. Most of Asia, including Korea, was still a backwater. Detroit was Motor City. Not anymore. Despite the nostalgic TV commercials advertising Chrysler (“imported from Detroit”), Motor City has become a social and fiscal basket case, thanks largely to union greed.

It is long past time to break the stranglehold labor unions have had on the public and private sectors. Despite the re-election of Barack Obama, the tide is turning against union thuggery. In Wisconsin, the legislature and the governor curtailed the power of unions last year, with Gov. Scott Walker surviving a recall attempt to emerge more popular than ever. And now Gov. Snyder and the Republican legislature in Michigan have done the unimaginable: they have turned Michigan into a right-to-work state.

Twenty-four down, 26 to go.

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2012/12/13/patton-right-to-work-in-michigan-24-down-26-to-go/?subscriber=1

[Requiem]

I guess some people do get a certain joy out of being aholes. I've never understood it, but I've seen a whole bunch of angry old men who think it's a satisfying way to wrap up a life.

^5

[sinuous sausage]

I guess some people do get a certain joy out of being aholes. I've never understood it, but I've seen a whole bunch of angry old men who think it's a satisfying way to wrap up a life.

Harry Reid? Ted Kennedy? Ruth Ginsburg? :rofl:

[lonestar]

What’s at Stake in Michigan Union Fight: The Democrat Money-Laundering Operation
Posted on December 13, 2012

Follow-the-money

I want people to understand this, because it’s key to understanding what’s going on with the right-to-work. The stimulus is the greatest example. From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, here are the real numbers. State public sector jobs benefited the most from the stimulus, the Obama stimulus. The date of this story is October 13th, 2009.

Seventy-five percent of 8,000 stimulus related jobs accounted for so far, back on October 13, 2009, were public sector jobs protected by the federal infusion by the stimulus into state and local government coffers. That number comes from the governor’s office. The jobs protected included teachers, cops, and other government workers. Of the remaining 25% it’s not clear how many were private sector jobs. That 75% number could be even higher. So here’s how it works, and this is key to understand it. Obama just can’t go to the Treasury and write himself a check. Obama took the occasion, took the opportunity of an economic downturn, took advantage of his honeymoon period, first black president, the karma, the aura, the excitement of a new presidency to basically defraud the American people.

We’re gonna stimulate the economy. We’re gonna grow jobs. We’re gonna create jobs, shovel-ready jobs, repair schools, roads, bridges, all that gunk, and everybody was all gung-ho. In fact, everybody loved Obama. He couldn’t do anything wrong. He was a messiah. Whatever you wanted him to be, he was. And all he was doing was giving money to himself and his party. That’s what the stimulus was. I don’t say this with animus. I’m simply pointing it out. It’s exactly what happened. Wisconsin is just one state. Minimum 75% of the stimulus went to protect existing union jobs. And all of those union jobs are dues paying, and it’s crucial to remember where the dues go. That’s the money laundering. Money from the Treasury to save jobs, to create jobs, whatever the sales pitch was, ends up protecting existing private and public sector union jobs.


Not creating new ones, as we know there weren’t any new ones created. Those dues-paying union members were not laid off in this down economy. They were not fired. Their jobs weren’t eliminated. They were saved. They were protected. In fact, there was a second stimulus, if you recall, for California, 25 or $30 billion. The stated purpose was to hire more teachers. That’s not what they did with the money. They took that stimulus money and they put it into the pension and health care funds of existing teacher employees, keeping them employed, keeping their pensions solid or as close to solid as they could. But as they were kept employed, they continued to pay dues, and the dues either ended up back in the Democrat Party or used in advertising to elect Democrats.

Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/whats-at-stake-in-michigan-union-fight-the-democrat-money-laundering-operation/#ixzz2ExCMUxLf


and you morons bought into this hook line and sinker.. ahahahahahaha

[lonestar]

Harry Reid? Ted Kennedy? Ruth Ginsburg? :rofl:

yo, SS ruthy is an angry old man?

[sinuous sausage]

yo, SS ruthy is an angry old man?

ROFL!

[lonestar]

Or, they are retired. Like you. And wasting all their golden years b****ing and whining. Ha!

I like to think it is enlightening lost souls.

Call it my calling. One can only hope someone may get a clue about life if they actually have an open mind..

I have a lot of spare time as I care for my mother in law that has Alzheimer's or perhaps I would be working just enough to add to my 401K.

Besides I have lots of honeydos to get done between lecture sessions.

So your definition of wasting time is moot. But beleive what you wish. Makes no did to me..

So which on that list fits your qualification of spending time on here pissing and moaning?

[lonestar]

ROFL!

Well by just looking at Ruthy I could see how you could get that impression.

[Rohirrim]

I like to think it is enlightening lost souls.

Call it my calling. One can only hope someone may get a clue about life if they actually have an open mind..

I have a lot of spare time as I care for my mother in law that has Alzheimer's or perhaps I would be working just enough to add to my 401K.

Besides I have lots of honeydos to get done between lecture sessions.

So your definition of wasting time is moot. But beleive what you wish. Makes no did to me..

So which on that list fits your qualification of spending time on here pissing and moaning?

Your spamming threads are the very definition of whine.

You're the guy who comes in, throws **** at the walls, and then complains about the stink.

[lonestar]

Your spamming threads are the very definition of whine.

You're the guy who comes in, throws **** at the walls, and then complains about the stink.

so why are you even looking at them?

If you think they are spam, stay out of the thread are you a closet masochist?

I do not get why any of the uber liberals feel the need to spam my threads, it is a free world not to open them.. I basically have three threads based on conservative values..

IMO it is something foreign to you should be avoided, specifically if you have noting to add to the conversation..

ya'' ll bitched when I made a thread for each topic so I condensed them into two and now three because everything NOBAMA does not deserve some of the real losers in your party..

thus everything dumocrat..


OH i get it now if it does not fit in your party line or daily bullet points then it is not allowed in a political area of a FOOTBALL forum..

[houghtam]

Pray tell how does one spend as much time on here as some do IF they are gainfully employeed.

Posting at all times of the day or night, that means they are either either stealing from their company, by using company assets to do so, using bandwidth, computers and company time to do so.

They own the company and are wasting their time when they could be productive doing sometime else. A job they are paying someone else to do.

They are unemployeed sucking on the government teat..

They are independently wealthy.. What are those odds ahahahahahaha

They are stay at home spouses, which means the kids are being neglected or chores are not being done which IMO means you are stealing from your spouse since they wind up doing those chores. Or have to pay someone to do them.

They are college student that could be studying, which is just cheating yourself.

Maybe there are some other scenarios but I'd guess those would fit about 99% of the poster on here during normal working hours.

Now I will grant that some are diligent employees only posting on breaks on their own airtime on their own mobile devices. But what are those odds in today's society.

There you go again, showing your utter nincompoopery.

A very significant portion of the working population doesn't have "normal working hours". When I managed the theaters it was just as likely that I would be at work at 1am as it was 9am or 3pm. Most people that work in retail, service, or foodservice work irregular hours and irregular shifts.

How stupid do you need to be to make a post like this? Insinuating someone is stealing from their employer because of when they post?

You can't be retired, you have the deductive reasoning skills of a 6 year old.

Oops, sorry...are you in a home and have Alzheimer's? Could be another explanation for why every one of your posts reads like something found in Jack Torrence's typewriter.

"No guns and no 'murrican flag make lonestar something something."

[cutthemdown]

So now unions just have to make people sign something to have dues taken out. Big deal. I'm sure union members will pay it if the Union doing a good job for them.

[cutthemdown]

Everyone knows most of the stimulus just went to save union jobs and unemployment. The fact Obama now wants one for infrastructure is a joke because thats what the last one was supposed to be for.

[Arkie]

Right to Work States

Alabama
Arizona †
Arkansas †
Florida †
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana[30]
Iowa
Kansas †
Louisiana
Michigan[31]
Mississippi †
Nebraska ††
Nevada
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma †
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Wyoming

Unemployment rates as of 11/20

1 NORTH DAKOTA 3.1
2 NEBRASKA 3.8
3 SOUTH DAKOTA 4.5
4 IOWA 5.1
5 UTAH 5.2
5 WYOMING 5.2
7 OKLAHOMA 5.3
8 HAWAII 5.5
8 VERMONT 5.5
10 KANSAS 5.7
10 NEW HAMPSHIRE 5.7
10 VIRGINIA 5.7
13 MINNESOTA 5.8
14 MONTANA 6.0
15 NEW MEXICO 6.3
16 LOUISIANA 6.6
16 MASSACHUSETTS 6.6
16 TEXAS 6.6
19 MARYLAND 6.7
20 DELAWARE 6.8
21 MISSOURI 6.9
21 OHIO 6.9
21 WISCONSIN 6.9
24 IDAHO 7.0
25 ALASKA 7.1
26 ARKANSAS 7.2
27 MAINE 7.4
28 WEST VIRGINIA 7.5
29 COLORADO 7.9
30 INDIANA 8.0
31 ALABAMA 8.1
31 ARIZONA 8.1
31 PENNSYLVANIA 8.1
34 TENNESSEE 8.2
34 WASHINGTON 8.2
36 KENTUCKY 8.4
37 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 8.5
37 FLORIDA 8.5
39 OREGON 8.6
39 SOUTH CAROLINA 8.6
41 GEORGIA 8.7
41 NEW YORK 8.7
43 ILLINOIS 8.8
44 MISSISSIPPI 8.9
45 CONNECTICUT 9.0
46 MICHIGAN 9.1
47 NORTH CAROLINA 9.3
48 NEW JERSEY 9.7
49 CALIFORNIA 10.1
50 RHODE ISLAND 10.4
51 NEVADA 11.5

Somebody asked.

The top 7 states are right to work. 5 out of the bottom 7 are forced unionized states when you count Michigan. I think we'll see Michigan become more competitive among it's peers, and eventually all the states will become right to work.

[lonestar]

There you go again, showing your utter nincompoopery.

A very significant portion of the working population doesn't have "normal working hours". When I managed the theaters it was just as likely that I would be at work at 1am as it was 9am or 3pm. Most people that work in retail, service, or foodservice work irregular hours and irregular shifts.

How stupid do you need to be to make a post like this? Insinuating someone is stealing from their employer because of when they post?

You can't be retired, you have the deductive reasoning skills of a 6 year old.

Oops, sorry...are you in a home and have Alzheimer's? Could be another explanation for why every one of your posts reads like something found in Jack Torrence's typewriter.

"No guns and no 'murrican flag make lonestar something something."

It does not make me feel stupid at all..

I know I have seen posts from a good many folks on this and other forums saying they can't open some of the threads or areas because they are afraid of their coworkers or bosses seeing them..

As for my posts please put me on IGGY so you do not have to suffer through them..

BTW making fun of someone with Alzheimer is a very rude/crude thing to do.. I'm sure someone raised you better than that..

I care for a someone with Alzheimers and it is a cruel debilitating disease without folks making fun of it.. I'd liken it to beating up on a downs kid because he/she looks funny..

Funny thing is, you used to be a classy poster..

[lonestar]

The top 7 states are right to work. 5 out of the bottom 7 are forced unionized states when you count Michigan. I think we'll see Michigan become more competitive among it's peers, and eventually all the states will become right to work.

unless it becomes the law of the land (federal) there are hotspots in liberal land that will never convert to it..


Although MI was one area I never thought I'd see it happen.. But then how many auto jobs have moved out to the state most of them..

[Rohirrim]

so why are you even looking at them?

If you think they are spam, stay out of the thread are you a closet masochist?

I do not get why any of the uber liberals feel the need to spam my threads, it is a free world not to open them.. I basically have three threads based on conservative values..

IMO it is something foreign to you should be avoided, specifically if you have noting to add to the conversation..

ya'' ll b****ed when I made a thread for each topic so I condensed them into two and now three because everything NOBAMA does not deserve some of the real losers in your party..

thus everything dumocrat..


OH i get it now if it does not fit in your party line or daily bullet points then it is not allowed in a political area of a FOOTBALL forum..

Spamming is just slapping right wing articles all over the place, snickering like a middle schooler, and running away.

Make an argument. Post a thesis. Stand up for it.




j/k You couldn't handle it.

[houghtam]

unless it becomes the law of the land (federal) there are hotspots in liberal land that will never convert to it..


Although MI was one area I never thought I'd see it happen.. But then how many auto jobs have moved out to the state most of them..

It's because RTW isn't a big deal, as I've said before and a few people in this very thread have said. RTW won't affect any of the traditional union industries, especially not in Michigan. Union culture is ingrained into the Michigan psyche, all but perhaps the far west coasters. Their membership will continue, and their political power will still have a huge influence on the state for the foreseeable future. Nearly every one of those workers will remain in the union because, believe it or not, they do receive benefits from them.

The real problem is going to be for unions in the service industry, such as the UFCW and HERE, which provide no real benefits to the majority of their members, yet enjoy huge coffers due to their large pool of workers, many of whom couldn't tell you what the initials of their union stand for, let alone which union they belong to in the first place.

[lonestar]

UAW Chief Union Goon On Right-To-Work: “This Has To Be Seen As Part Of A Right-Wing Agenda”…
Posted on December 13, 2012 by Cowboy Byte

“You know, I’m not worried about the immediate effect on the UAW. I’m worried about the impact on society. This has got to be seen as part of a right-wing agenda. And this lame-duck, they’re not only attacking labor, they’re attacking women’s reproductive rights, they’re attacking teachers and schools. They’re attacking everything that’s good for working families.

“This right-wing agenda has got to be stopped,” King continued:

“Labor, civil rights, faith community, LGBT, environmentalists — all of us got to come together and stand up for an America that has prosperity for everybody. Not just for CEOs and the greedy few at the top.”

Read more: http://cowboybyte.com/16212/uaw-chief-union-goon-on-right-to-work-this-has-to-be-seen-as-part-of-a-right-wing-agenda/#ixzz2Eyv14m00

[lonestar]

It's because RTW isn't a big deal, as I've said before and a few people in this very thread have said. RTW won't affect any of the traditional union industries, especially not in Michigan. Union culture is ingrained into the Michigan psyche, all but perhaps the far west coasters. Their membership will continue, and their political power will still have a huge influence on the state for the foreseeable future. Nearly every one of those workers will remain in the union because, believe it or not, they do receive benefits from them.

The real problem is going to be for unions in the service industry, such as the UFCW and HERE, which provide no real benefits to the majority of their members, yet enjoy huge coffers due to their large pool of workers, many of whom couldn't tell you what the initials of their union stand for, let alone which union they belong to in the first place.

a rebuttal

Right-to-work law gives Michigan unions new task
Posted on December 13, 2012 by Cowboy Byte

Now that Michigan has become a right-to-work state, unions in this stronghold of organized labor confront a new and urgent problem: convincing members to continue paying for their services instead of taking them for free.

Brushing aside protests from thousands of labor supporters, the Republican-controlled state House approved measures Tuesday making it illegal to require that nonunion workers pay fees to unions for negotiating wage contracts and other services. The Senate did likewise last week, and Gov. Rick Snyder swiftly signed the bills into law.

The laws take effect 90 days after the Legislature adjourns this month, giving unions little time to devise a strategy for keeping members on board and convincing nonmembers to continue their financial support.

Union leaders said it was too soon to predict how the laws would affect their membership and recruiting, partly because workers covered by existing labor contracts won’t be able to stop paying union fees until those deals lapse — which in some cases will take several years. Contracts between unions and Detroit automakers, for example, are effective until September 2015.

Read more: http://cowboybyte.com/16202/right-to-work-law-gives-michigan-unions-new-task/#ixzz2EyvSRm4l

[houghtam]

a rebuttal


Read more: http://cowboybyte.com/16202/right-to-work-law-gives-michigan-unions-new-task/#ixzz2EyvSRm4l

Where's the rebuttal? You are simply regurgitating a point I already addressed about the union culture in Michigan.

Call me in 90 days if union membership drops like a rock.

Here's a hint: It won't.

[Bob]

So, what you're saying is that you make assumptions about people you've never met and know nothing about, judge them, and then bask in the delusion of superiority.

The very definition of: Ahole.

No surprise that you live in the rectum of the United States.

BTW, German cars are for pussies.

:wave:

You have just described yourself...truthfully, that is what you do.

[Fedaykin]

The top 7 states are right to work. 5 out of the bottom 7 are forced unionized states when you count Michigan. I think we'll see Michigan become more competitive among it's peers, and eventually all the states will become right to work.

http://www.venganza.org/images/spreadword/pchart1.jpg

[houghtam]

It does not make me feel stupid at all..

I know I have seen posts from a good many folks on this and other forums saying they can't open some of the threads or areas because they are afraid of their coworkers or bosses seeing them..

As for my posts please put me on IGGY so you do not have to suffer through them..

BTW making fun of someone with Alzheimer is a very rude/crude thing to do.. I'm sure someone raised you better than that..

I care for a someone with Alzheimers and it is a cruel debilitating disease without folks making fun of it.. I'd liken it to beating up on a downs kid because he/she looks funny..

Funny thing is, you used to be a classy poster..

LOL oh so you're Mr. Sensitive now? Or do I need to link you to the thread where you bragged about doing business with a company that donates to hate groups. It's okay, we're both human. I like to compare people who post stupid **** on message boards to people with debilitating mental illness, you like to donate money to people who hate homosexuals.

Different strokes for different folks. ???

[lonestar]

LOL oh so you're Mr. Sensitive now? Or do I need to link you to the thread where you bragged about doing business with a company that donates to hate groups. It's okay, we're both human. I like to compare people who post stupid **** on message boards to people with debilitating mental illness, you like to donate money to people who hate homosexuals.

Different strokes for different folks. ???

Which company might that be?

I just might need a link.

[Rohirrim]

You have just described yourself...truthfully, that is what you do.

Here's the thing you guys on the Right can't grasp: There is a thing called the truth. The **** you make up and choose to believe in, is not the same thing. :wave:

[houghtam]

Which company might that be?

I just might need a link.

Actually there were two threads in which you bragged about making a special out of the way trip to Chik Fil A after they had announced they donate money to conservative Christian hate groups.

One of them was the same thread where cutthemdown claimed that engineers were conservatives. LOL

[broncocalijohn]

Lonestar, I dont mind your debate in this thread but pulling the sensative card of Alzheimers is lame. Can someone not call you (or you call someone else) retarded because they know a retarded person and that is mean to them? How about calling someone "midget minded" or such because that isn't nice to short people. You seem like a Conservative and touchy feeling crap is for liberals so you cannot cut n paste what you feel is ok and not ok based on personal feelings. That is the description of a bleeding heart.
My Grandmother has Alz and it sucks that she doesn't remember a lot of things. If I forgot a post or stance I took a while back and someone called me out on it by asking if I have Alzheimers, I am not going to whine about it based on my Grandmother having it.

[sinuous sausage]

Here's the thing you guys on the Right can't grasp: There is a thing called the truth. The **** you make up and choose to believe in, is not the same thing. :wave:

I actually think conservatives are more philosophically-inclined to believe in an absolute truth. Lefties tend to think "it's all relative." Or at least they "feel" it is.

[sinuous sausage]

conservative Christian hate groups.


ah. you're one of those.

[Rohirrim]

I actually think conservatives are more philosophically-inclined to believe in an absolute truth. Lefties tend to think "it's all relative." Or at least they "feel" it is.

If you're thinking about the religious definition of "absolute truth" then I can only say there is no such thing. Perhaps I should have used the word "facts?"

[sinuous sausage]

If you're thinking about the religious definition of "absolute truth" then I can only say there is no such thing. Perhaps I should have used the word "facts?"

sure, but what are facts contingent on? I'd imagine they don't matter if they're divorced from what is really happening.

[lonestar]

Actually there were two threads in which you bragged about making a special out of the way trip to Chik Fil A after they had announced they donate money to conservative Christian hate groups.

One of them was the same thread where cutthemdown claimed that engineers were conservatives. LOL

I guess your definition of a hate group is different than mine.. On this we will have to agree to disagree.

I firmly support marriage is one man one woman.. I do not see that as Hate just facts as I know them..


as for the other one if you say so I might have supported something in another thread.. obviously not as important to me as it was to you..

[lonestar]

Here's the thing you guys on the Right can't grasp: There is a thing called the truth. The **** you make up and choose to believe in, is not the same thing. :wave:

hmmmm

I guess the perspective could be different yet I as a conservative see it this way..

Here's the thing you guys on the LEFT can't grasp: There is a thing called the truth. The crap you make up and choose to believe in, is not the same thing.


if the shoe fits wear it..

[Rohirrim]

sure, but what are facts contingent on? I'd imagine they don't matter if they're divorced from what is really happening.

Take the economy, for instance. Some things work. Some don't. Look at the periods of time where it really worked well. Do that. Look at the times where things didn't work worth a damn. Don't do that. Simple ****.

[lonestar]

Lonestar, I dont mind your debate in this thread but pulling the sensative card of Alzheimers is lame. Can someone not call you (or you call someone else) retarded because they know a retarded person and that is mean to them? How about calling someone "midget minded" or such because that isn't nice to short people. You seem like a Conservative and touchy feeling crap is for liberals so you cannot cut n paste what you feel is ok and not ok based on personal feelings. That is the description of a bleeding heart.
My Grandmother has Alz and it sucks that she doesn't remember a lot of things. If I forgot a post or stance I took a while back and someone called me out on it by asking if I have Alzheimers, I am not going to whine about it based on my Grandmother having it.

I believe the term I have used is mental midget.. = small mind..

Sorry to hear about you Grand mother or for that matter anyone that has or deals with Alzheimer or dementia..


I dd not whine about it other than to say I deal with it daily for that matter 24/7

here is is the quote
BTW making fun of someone with Alzheimer is a very rude/crude thing to do.. I'm sure someone raised you better than that..

I care for a someone with Alzheimers and it is a cruel debilitating disease without folks making fun of it.. I'd liken it to beating up on a downs kid because he/she looks funny


sorry if you saw whining in that .. it was statement of FACT..

[sinuous sausage]

Take the economy, for instance. Some things work. Some don't. Look at the periods of time where it really worked well. Do that. Look at the times where things didn't work worth a damn. Don't do that. Simple ****.

it's not, though, because you have innumerable factors that are all contingent on innumerable factors that make the economy churn.

but that's not really the Q I was hoping you'd answer: what are facts' relationship to truth?

[Rohirrim]

it's not, though, because you have innumerable factors that are all contingent on innumerable factors that make the economy churn.

but that's not really the Q I was hoping you'd answer: what are facts' relationship to truth?

Sorry. I don't go in much for the esoterica of metaphysics.

[Rohirrim]

it's not, though, because you have innumerable factors that are all contingent on innumerable factors that make the economy churn.

but that's not really the Q I was hoping you'd answer: what are facts' relationship to truth?

As far as part A goes, the Chinese have a saying: Ruling a very large country is like cooking a very small fish.

[sinuous sausage]

Sorry. I don't go in much for the esoterica of metaphysics.

you do, though. everyone does. even a belief that "metaphysics doesn't matter" is metaphysical.

[sinuous sausage]

As far as part A goes, the Chinese have a saying: Ruling a very large country is like cooking a very small fish.

go on

[Rohirrim]

go on

Small changes can have a big effect.

[elsid13]

The top 7 states are right to work. 5 out of the bottom 7 are forced unionized states when you count Michigan. I think we'll see Michigan become more competitive among it's peers, and eventually all the states will become right to work.

A lot those state are not successful because of right to work, but rather they have gone out of the way to lure business to their states. One of the reason that most of new auto plants are in the South, is because those states have granted large tax breaks to companies to relocate and/or paid for the infrastructure they need to create a manufacturing plant.

[lonestar]

A lot those state are not successful because of right to work, but rather they have gone out of the way to lure business to their states. One of the reason that most of new auto plants are in the South, is because those states have granted large tax breaks to companies to relocate and/or paid for the infrastructure they need to create a manufacturing plant.

Kind of like NOBAMA saving the auto industry .

Yep got it OK for dumocratic administration, bad for right to work state..

Do you not get that even though they may be getting tax break, billions of revenues are being created in those states during construction as well as salaries being turned over (rule of thumb 7 times) in the local economies which in turn create sales taxes and in most of those states state income taxes..


Yep BAD ROW States.. BAD

[lonestar]

Michigan Right to Work Could Defund Planned Parenthood
Posted on December 14, 2012

planned-parenthood

The link between unions and Planned Parenthood may wind up defunding the abortion provider as well as cutting funds for pro-homosexual activist groups in Michigan. This is because Governor Rick Snyder has signed the Right-to-Work law, which leaves workers free to work without joining a union or paying dues to one.

Up until now, a huge portion of the forced dues collected by the unions has been spent supporting politicians who are clearly pro-abortion and pro same-sex marriage. Michigan has been largely unionized because of the great number of government jobs and auto industry jobs.

The link between the unions and the abortion and same-sex marriage supporters may be unknown to large swaths of the general public, but the evidence is unmistakable; Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards unabashedly stated, “Planned Parenthood and the UAW [United Auto Workers] share a planned vision for this country.” The United Auto Workers appointed Mary Beth Cahill as the director of its national political agenda last year. Previously, Cahill had been the boss of the PAC EMILY’s List, which is devoted to electing pro-abortion candidates. Bob King, the president of the UAW, said, “During her five years at EMILY’s List, she helped turn the pro-choice PAC into an unrivaled political powerhouse—the largest in the country at the time.”

Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/michigan-right-to-work-could-defund-planned-parenthood/#ixzz2F5WLobpu


to bad so sad..

no more union dues for PACs

no more taking hard earned money from Americans and using it to fund abortion mills..

[elsid13]

Kind of like NOBAMA saving the auto industry .

Yep got it OK for dumocratic administration, bad for right to work state..

Do you not get that even though they may be getting tax break, billions of revenues are being created in those states during construction as well as salaries being turned over (rule of thumb 7 times) in the local economies which in turn create sales taxes and in most of those states state income taxes..


Yep BAD ROW States.. BAD

Once again you miss the point. People are claiming the right to work is the reason those states are success, I was point out that there other factors in play that had stronger influence on the matter. And for the record government spending (at the federal, state or local level) is deemed to generate two to three dollar of secondary spending in the economy.

[W*GS]

Here's the thing you guys on the LEFT can't grasp: There is a thing called the truth. The crap you make up and choose to believe in, is not the same thing.

Thanks for the unintentionally ironic comment-o-the-month.

It's typically the Right that discards reality in favor of their dogma. Case in point? Global warming.

[houghtam]

Michigan Right to Work Could Defund Planned Parenthood
Posted on December 14, 2012

planned-parenthood



Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2012/12/michigan-right-to-work-could-defund-planned-parenthood/#ixzz2F5WLobpu


to bad so sad..

no more union dues for PACs

no more taking hard earned money from Americans and using it to fund abortion mills..

Except union membership isn't going anywhere. The unions will still collect their dues, and they'll still be politically active. RTW won't affect the traditional union-heavy industries at all. Much ado about not very much.

[sinuous sausage]

Thanks for the unintentionally ironic comment-o-the-month.

It's typically the Right that discards reality in favor of their dogma. Case in point? Global warming.

if anything, I blame the Left's alarmists who hijacked the cause and poisoned-the-well of any debate on the matter. They made it just another vehicle for their condescending, redistributionist BS, and I don't blame skeptics for balking at the histrionic doomsday scenarios requiring us to engage in every manner of economic suicide.

[Rohirrim]

if anything, I blame the Left's alarmists who hijacked the cause and poisoned-the-well of any debate on the matter. They made it just another vehicle for their condescending, redistributionist BS, and I don't blame skeptics for balking at the histrionic doomsday scenarios requiring us to engage in every manner of economic suicide.

That's fine, except for the fact that we may be experiencing some of those "doomsdays" already, like Hurricane Sandy, for example. Speaking of economic suicide, if we were to start suffering a couple of events like that every year, while throwing in some droughts and failed crops, maybe economically speaking, it becomes a moot point whether it was suicide or death by inaction?

[houghtam]

It is a sad state of affairs when the acquisition of wealth is more important than the acceptance of reality.

[lonestar]

Except union membership isn't going anywhere. The unions will still collect their dues, and they'll still be politically active. RTW won't affect the traditional union-heavy industries at all. Much ado about not very much.

When it take affect those with half a brain will no longer join the union. In fact I'd guess if most that did join had not had a gun put to their head and forced to join they would have not done so.

So when this happens far less money will be available to abortion mills as well as other far left activities.
Also the PACs will get less.
Now that is a scary thought millions of Americans hard earned dollars will no longer be used to further an agenda most do not agree with.

[W*GS]

if anything, I blame the Left's alarmists who hijacked the cause and poisoned-the-well of any debate on the matter. They made it just another vehicle for their condescending, redistributionist BS, and I don't blame skeptics for balking at the histrionic doomsday scenarios requiring us to engage in every manner of economic suicide.

Well, no - that was the right's tactic. Protect their corporate interests and profits (and future profits from oil/gas/coal still in the ground) by denying the science, and smearing, slurring, and attacking scientists.

The same tactics used to protect cigarette company's profits for decades after the science made it clear that smoking is highly dangerous to one's health.

[sinuous sausage]

the problem is the science is drowned out by the loud minority of enviros whose expressed interest is a cessation of human economic action. I'm not talking about a little carbon tax here or a windmill there: they think humans are morally amiss by engaging in commerce of farming or recreation. no one on the Left sees any need to reel them in, don't ask me why, and the quality of the debate as to how to move forward suffers for it. nuclear power is just below coal and oil in the "Top 1,000,000 Facts of Life that Leftists Hate" book, and their reaction to it is no less scientific and irrational than denialism of global warming.

I'd also like to see a little more rigor in the science surrounding global warming. I believe humans cause a general warming effect to the planet, the theory is plausible enough and there is ample evidence, but to make it truly scientific it needs falsifying conditions: under what conditions could AGW ever be disproved? otherwise, it suffers the same fate as Intelligent Design or Freud's psychology.

http://www.thegwpf.org/pascal-bruckner-the-fanaticism-of-the-eco-apocalypse/

[Rohirrim]

the problem is the science is drowned out by the loud minority of enviros whose expressed interest is a cessation of human economic action. I'm not talking about a little carbon tax here or a windmill there: they think humans are morally amiss by engaging in commerce of farming or recreation. no one on the Left sees any need to reel them in, don't ask me why, and the quality of the debate as to how to move forward suffers for it. nuclear power is just below coal and oil in the "Top 1,000,000 Facts of Life that Leftists Hate" book, and their reaction to it is no less scientific and irrational than denialism of global warming.

I'd also like to see a little more rigor in the science surrounding global warming. I believe humans cause a general warming effect to the planet, the theory is plausible enough and there is ample evidence, but to make it truly scientific it needs falsifying conditions: under what conditions could AGW ever be disproved? otherwise, it suffers the same fate as Intelligent Design or Freud's psychology.

http://www.thegwpf.org/pascal-bruckner-the-fanaticism-of-the-eco-apocalypse/

No. The science is drowned out by the deep pockets of an oil industry that wants to keep us glued to the oil teat for as long as possible.

[W*GS]

the problem is the science is drowned out by the loud minority of enviros whose expressed interest is a cessation of human economic action.

That's a strawman, and has nothing to do with the science. You're just scapegoating and thinking the issue isn't important because only "enviros" think it's a problem.

I'd also like to see a little more rigor in the science surrounding global warming. I believe humans cause a general warming effect to the planet, the theory is plausible enough and there is ample evidence, but to make it truly scientific it needs falsifying conditions: under what conditions could AGW ever be disproved?

If anthropogenic GHGs increase and the planet doesn't warm, the oceans don't acidify, the stratosphere doesn't cool, the sea ice and land ice grow and advance, the timing of the seasons doesn't change...

Begin your education regarding the science:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Newcomers-Start-Here.html

[sinuous sausage]

No. The science is drowned out by the deep pockets of an oil industry that wants to keep us glued to the oil teat for as long as possible.

that conspiracy is almost as good as the one that thinks Marxists are behind global warming

[W*GS]

that conspiracy is almost as good as the one that thinks Marxists are behind global warming

Read up on Heartland sometime.

[sinuous sausage]

That's a strawman, and has nothing to do with the science. You're just scapegoating and thinking the issue isn't important because only "enviros" think it's a problem.



If anthropogenic GHGs increase and the planet doesn't warm, the oceans don't acidify, the stratosphere doesn't cool, the sea ice and land ice grow and advance, the timing of the seasons doesn't change...

Begin your education regarding the science:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Newcomers-Start-Here.html

thanks for the link, tho I'm not what you'd really call a skeptic in this case. proponents of the theory of climate change need to purge the rolls of the fringe environmental elements. you know who I'm talking about. letting scientifically-illiterate misanthropes (because that's what they are) define the movement is no one's fault but their (our?) own. actively seeking out evidence to disprove one's theory is science 101, and you have to admit there isn't much of that in the alarmist camp. draconian, self-imposed economic sanctions (that hurt the poor the most) is also no way to pay penance for how we got here.

[sinuous sausage]

Read up on Heartland sometime.

the TV series?

[W*GS]

the TV series?

No.

[W*GS]

thanks for the link, tho I'm not what you'd really call a skeptic in this case. proponents of the theory of climate change need to purge the rolls of the fringe environmental elements. you know who I'm talking about. letting scientifically-illiterate misanthropes (because that's what they are) define the movement is no one's fault but their (our?) own. actively seeking out evidence to disprove one's theory is science 101, and you have to admit there isn't much of that in the alarmist camp. draconian, self-imposed economic sanctions (that hurt the poor the most) is also no way to pay penance for how we got here.

You want to put the "humans are a cancer on the earth" folks into the science, so you can dismiss the science.

Why?

I also agree that destroying our economies isn't the solution. Why do you think that doing so is the only way to mitigate climate change?

[sinuous sausage]

You want to put the "humans are a cancer on the earth" folks into the science, so you can dismiss the science.

Why?

I also agree that destroying our economies isn't the solution. Why do you think that doing so is the only way to mitigate climate change?

I don't wanna dismiss the science. What I'm saying is others dismiss the science because of the presence of said groups. My proposal is rid ourselves of such groups, but no one can do that but ourselves. Al Gore did everyone a huge disservice by being the cheerleader, because what the hell does that man know? Not to mention the millions he's made off his own alarmism. But I digress.

It's the only proposal I've realistically heard thus far. Bjørn Lomborg has a sensible approach to any cost-benefit analysis of economic concerns, but he's definitely in the minority. Climate change is happening, so what do we do it about it? Regressing to the 1500's isn't going to happen, and I wouldn't wanna live in that world anyways. If putting up a few more windmills isn't gonna cut it, what will?

[W*GS]

I don't wanna dismiss the science.

Yes, you do.

What I'm saying is others dismiss the science because of the presence of said groups. My proposal is rid ourselves of such groups, but no one can do that but ourselves.

The science doesn't depend on what anyone says. "2+2=4" doesn't become suspect because Ingrid Newkirk or some other nutjob said it and believes it.

Al Gore did everyone a huge disservice by being the cheerleader, because what the hell does that man know? Not to mention the millions he's made off his own alarmism. But I digress.

What is with you "skeptics" and Al Gore? He's not terribly relevant to the science, nor is the alleged millions he's made. He knows a lot more about the science than you do, certainly.

It's the only proposal I've realistically heard thus far. Bjørn Lomborg has a sensible approach to any cost-benefit analysis of economic concerns, but he's definitely in the minority.

Minority of what? How many people really believe that to mitigate global warming, we should all destroy every tool, live in caves, and wear animal skins? That's a strawman created by the global warming deniers to scare people into ignoring the science.

Climate change is happening, so what do we do it about it? Regressing to the 1500's isn't going to happen, and I wouldn't wanna live in that world anyways. If putting up a few more windmills isn't gonna cut it, what will?

The science can only inform our political decisions, not make them for us. But first, you have to accept the science. Don't be a dittohead and call the science a hoax or a fraud, and the scientists criminals and liars.

[sinuous sausage]

I don't really follow the "skeptic" epithet you're applying to me. I've continually said I agree climate change is an actual phenomenon, and proffered up some observations I've made about why there is backlash against the theory. But c'est la vie. This quasi-religious mindset turns people off to any discussion about it.

The problem isn't the scientists, but instead the flack mouthpieces for said scientists who shanghai the operation. Al Gore is their chieftain.

[houghtam]

When it take affect those with half a brain will no longer join the union. In fact I'd guess if most that did join had not had a gun put to their head and forced to join they would have not done so.

So when this happens far less money will be available to abortion mills as well as other far left activities.
Also the PACs will get less.
Now that is a scary thought millions of Americans hard earned dollars will no longer be used to further an agenda most do not agree with.

I've already explained this. I'm from Michigan. I know the culture. There will NOT be any mass exodus from unions such as the UAW, IBEW, and Teamsters. People know and appreciate the benefits the unions give.

Hate to burst your union-hating bubble, but there is simply no evidence to support your claim that people quit unions en masse after RTW passes. In a state like Michigan where union culture has had nearly 100 years to flourish, your claim is simply laughable and comes off as coming from someone who has never stepped foot in that state.

[lonestar]

I've already explained this. I'm from Michigan. I know the culture. There will NOT be any mass exodus from unions such as the UAW, IBEW, and Teamsters. People know and appreciate the benefits the unions give.

Hate to burst your union-hating bubble, but there is simply no evidence to support your claim that people quit unions en masse after RTW passes. In a state like Michigan where union culture has had nearly 100 years to flourish, your claim is simply laughable and comes off as coming from someone who has never stepped foot in that state.

Well to burst your bubble I have been in Michigan on several occasions.

No where did I state that union morons would quit enmasse.

But more folk might as they are hired will opt out of paying dues, as will those who do not have their heads up their ass, once they do not have a gun at their heads to maintain their job.

The smart ones will figure out they can spend the money which I'd guess is near a grand a year better than the unions.

If they do not then they deserve being fleeced.