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View Full Version : We need Kuper back


Kaylore
12-07-2012, 06:51 AM
I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper our team is worse. With him, our team is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/001/840/880/hi-res-121135992_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

bronco militia
12-07-2012, 06:52 AM
nice game from Handy Manny last night

ole!

:cuss:

Requiem
12-07-2012, 06:54 AM
http://www.thesmokingtire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/two-thumbs-up.jpg

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 06:56 AM
nice game from Handy Manny last night

ole!

:cuss:

Clady got his ass kicked too. He's been below average the past two games. And this was against one of the worst sack teams in the NFL. Good for contract talks, I guess.

DENVERDUI55
12-07-2012, 07:04 AM
I was at game so and from my seat it was hard to see specifics but it looked like whole OL got worked over in run and pass. 2 of sacks seemed like blown assignments and let a player come free. Run game seemed like a loss of yards and whole OL collapsed or Moreno made a good run. There were also holes that the rbs missed too at times.

dsmoot
12-07-2012, 07:07 AM
I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper our team is worse. With him, our team is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/001/840/880/hi-res-121135992_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc. I too hope this isn't an indication of a nagging situation that will make his availability iffy into the playoffs. However, I like to look at the positive side of a bad situation. Other people get real time reps. Ramirez, Clark etc. One interesting item of note is the number of ex-Bronco OL still playing/starting for other teams. Myers, Lichtenstieger (sp) and Carlisle. I think I may have missed one.

baja
12-07-2012, 07:08 AM
We also need better depth on the O line

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2012, 07:11 AM
I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc.

Pretty much. Every time D Thomas goes out, I know it's only a matter of time before Wills effs up something. He looks very good for a backup for like 5 plays, but then that 6th play, the defense gives them a wrinkle, Peyton reads it and Willis doesn't and it either results in a pick or a near pick. Manning seems to have perfect chemistry with the other three primary WRs, but it's definitely not the same with Willis.

enjolras
12-07-2012, 07:12 AM
That last sack didn't seem like a blocking problem. They knew that blitzer was coming and Manning had checked to a hot route with the protection designed to just let the blitzer come. Either the Raiders covered that hot route up or someone didn't do something right and Manning just ate it. He was having a pretty deep discussion with one of the receivers after the play.

CSU Husker
12-07-2012, 07:13 AM
I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc. I too hope this isn't an indication of a nagging situation that will make his availability iffy into the playoffs. However, I like to look at the positive side of a bad situation. Other people get real time reps. Ramirez, Clark etc. One interesting item of note is the number of ex-Bronco OL still playing/starting for other teams. Myers, Lichtenstieger (sp) and Carlisle. I think I may have missed one.

Ryan Harris also.

gyldenlove
12-07-2012, 07:19 AM
Pretty much. Every time D Thomas goes out, I know it's only a matter of time before Wills effs up something. He looks very good for a backup for like 5 plays, but then that 6th play, the defense gives them a wrinkle, Peyton reads it and Willis doesn't and it either results in a pick or a near pick. Manning seems to have perfect chemistry with the other three primary WRs, but it's definitely not the same with Willis.

Thomas is the most important player on the offense after Manning. He is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of pure ability, the way he has gotten on the same page with Manning is just scary. Yesterday he ran a couple of hot route quick slants, easily caught the ball both times against heavy blitzes. Then he goes out injured, the same situation comes up and Willis is supposed to run the quick slant, but somehow doesn't see that 7 people are going after Manning and he keeps running his corner route leading to a sack.

jutang
12-07-2012, 08:13 AM
I know Willis plays ST, but when I see him play I am left wondering why Caldwell can't beat this guy out, especially when Stokely was injured the week before.

Lolad
12-07-2012, 08:15 AM
Ramirez lets people push him back... I heard on the radio that he has a back issue. I hope Kuper is healed before the playoffs start, so he can get in some game shape.

Our OL definitely has trouble with defensive lineman crossing their face and blowing up the run game. They are waiting for the lineman to engage them on running plays and when they don't they whiff on the block resulting in a negative play.

bronco militia
12-07-2012, 08:23 AM
Clady got his ass kicked too. He's been below average the past two games. And this was against one of the worst sack teams in the NFL. Good for contract talks, I guess.

meh...it seems things have been a mess in since Magahee went out and kuper came back too early. I thought Koppen had a tough game last week.

Manning can't seem to get Knowshow in the right spot and lately he sacks himself at least once a game. Hopefully Kupe took the night off to get some rest for the stretch run.

bronco militia
12-07-2012, 08:33 AM
8. I'm not saying there's a correlation here, but have you noticed that when Manny Ramirez is in the lineup, it seems like the Broncos give up more pressures and sacks? With Chris Kuper starting, Manning has been sacked four times in six games. With Manny? 15 times in seven games. Of course, Zane Beadles and Dan Koppen deserve their share of the blame, too.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/gut-reaction-week-14-broncos-at-raiders

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 08:36 AM
8. I'm not saying there's a correlation here, but have you noticed that when Manny Ramirez is in the lineup, it seems like the Broncos give up more pressures and sacks? With Chris Kuper starting, Manning has been sacked four times in six games. With Manny? 15 times in seven games. Of course, Zane Beadles and Dan Koppen deserve their share of the blame, too.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/gut-reaction-week-14-broncos-at-raiders

You could have argued better pass rushers in those games (JJ Watt, for Example) but last night's game blew up that theory because we faced one of the worst teams at sacking the QB and gave up 3.

razorwire77
12-07-2012, 08:39 AM
Kuper is probably the most underrated Bronco starter on offense. Actually Zane Beadles has really developed nicely this year too. There were at least two instances where Manny Ramirez literally failed to block anybody. I don't mean tried and whiffed, I don't mean he got ragdolled, he literally didn't even attempt to engage a defensive player. We need Kupe back next week, even if its at 80 percent.

bronco militia
12-07-2012, 08:46 AM
You could have argued better pass rushers in those games (JJ Watt, for Example) but last night's game blew up that theory because we faced one of the worst teams at sacking the QB and gave up 3.

a slippery field is a good equalizer.

I think everyone on this thread has done a nice job of pointing out several factors. Bottom line, the offense is much better with Kuper in the lineup.

Mile High Salute
12-07-2012, 08:47 AM
Pretty much. Every time D Thomas goes out, I know it's only a matter of time before Wills effs up something. He looks very good for a backup for like 5 plays, but then that 6th play, the defense gives them a wrinkle, Peyton reads it and Willis doesn't and it either results in a pick or a near pick. Manning seems to have perfect chemistry with the other three primary WRs, but it's definitely not the same with Willis.

Yeah, Willis sucks. The offense was definitely not the same when Thomas went out. It doesn't look like Stokely is 100%, either. Him making plays in the slot would've helped tremendously. Fortunately, we were only playing the Oakland Raiders. :giggle:

crush17
12-07-2012, 08:56 AM
I am completely over Matthew Willis. Caldwell is bigger, faster.... I understand the special teams aspect but I swear every single game Willis has had a more active role in, he blows 2-3 plays BADLY.

cabronco
12-07-2012, 08:58 AM
I think it was Fox that said, Kuper had some scar tissue broken up in his ankle and was still sore from it, and they just wanted to give him a little extra time to get better. Ramirez apparently does stuggle with back issues, if its that bad I wonder how Chris Clark would be at guard, could he be any worse? Anyways sounds like we'll see Kuper back in there next game.

Chris
12-07-2012, 09:00 AM
Yeah, Willis sucks. The offense was definitely not the same when Thomas went out. It doesn't look like Stokely is 100%, either. Him making plays in the slot would've helped tremendously. Fortunately, we were only playing the Oakland Raiders. :giggle:

That play was not on Willis. Even if Peyton didn't underthrow it and was leading him in on a curl the db had better position to make that int.

TheReverend
12-07-2012, 09:05 AM
I agree that your observation is painfully obvious but you can say this about any top player, Champ, Manning etc. I too hope this isn't an indication of a nagging situation that will make his availability iffy into the playoffs. However, I like to look at the positive side of a bad situation. Other people get real time reps. Ramirez, Clark etc. One interesting item of note is the number of ex-Bronco OL still playing/starting for other teams. Myers, Lichtenstieger (sp) and Carlisle. I think I may have missed one.

+ Polumbus and Ryan Harris

Btw, Clark gets his extra reps in jumbo packages playing a massive inline blocking TE, so Kuper's injury hasn't done anything to increase his snaps.

razorwire77
12-07-2012, 09:11 AM
I am completely over Matthew Willis. Caldwell is bigger, faster.... I understand the special teams aspect but I swear every single game Willis has had a more active role in, he blows 2-3 plays BADLY.
He is a can of suck. I had high hopes for him at one time. He has 4.4 speed, seems to run decent routes (at least in preseason), but he always seems to have one thoroughly irritating screw up, despite only getting very limited playing time.

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Denver draft a number 2 receiver, move Decker to the slot and be done with Willis. What does it say about Caldwell that he can't get on the field over a Willis?

Al Wilson
12-07-2012, 09:12 AM
Kuper is definitely a major upgrade over Ramirez. I think Elway is going to draft a guard in the first 3 rounds either way. Our offensive line is weak (other than the tackles). They get blown off and most of the pressure comes from the inside. Wouldn't mind a reciever or a tight end in the first 3 rounds as well. Need a couple more explosive skilled players in my opinion as our offense lacks that.

BigPlayShay
12-07-2012, 09:13 AM
Fox said that Kupe had some deep tissue done this week that left the scar tissue in his ankle sore. If it had been a Sunday game he would have been good to go.

ColoradoDarin
12-07-2012, 09:15 AM
We won while Kuper got to rest it and get ready for Baltimore. Ram is not very good, but that's why he's a backup.

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 09:28 AM
Fox said that Kupe had some deep tissue done this week that left the scar tissue in his ankle sore. If it had been a Sunday game he would have been good to go.

That's good to hear. Hopefully after ten days off he'll be ready to ball. Same goes for Woodyard.

broncosteven
12-07-2012, 09:55 AM
It seemed to me that in the 2nd quarter the raiders started all out blitzing and they were sending more guys than we could block from angles Manning could have adjusted to.

I wonder if their pass rush success wasn't more desperation and sending in things that weren't on tape, plus the fact that we had a short week and had to travel giving us less prep time.

Either way they did adjust to it and we were able to run on them in the 4th quarter which was promising.

Throw in the crappy field and I think it was just more about a short week vs a desperate team than the OL sucking.

broncosteven
12-07-2012, 09:57 AM
I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper sodomy is worse. With him, sodomy is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/001/840/880/hi-res-121135992_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

Fixed it for you.

pricejj
12-07-2012, 10:01 AM
I liked the adjustment of lining up Dreessen in the backfield, and motioning him out if the Raiders showed no blitz.

Good adjustment.

broncosteven
12-07-2012, 10:05 AM
I liked the adjustment of lining up Dreessen in the backfield, and motioning him out if the Raiders showed no blitz.

Good adjustment.

They also called a weak side sweep and then faked off it later for a nice gainer.

mCd thought adjustments were overrated. Fox comes in and wins game because he adjusts at the half. It is so nice having a HC who knows football!

Old Dude
12-07-2012, 10:07 AM
I'm hoping that Kuper, Woodyard and Stokely are all 100% for the Ravens game.

Anyone hear anything about Wolfe's injury?

Tombstone RJ
12-07-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm hoping that Kuper, Woodyard and Stokely are all 100% for the Ravens game.

Anyone hear anything about Wolfe's injury?

the one good thing about playing on thursday night is that the team has more time to prep and heal for the next game. This Baltimore game will be arguably the most important game since beating Sandy Eggo.

55CrushEm
12-07-2012, 10:32 AM
That's good to hear. Hopefully after ten days off he'll be ready to ball. Same goes for Woodyard.

That would be 14 days off. They didn't play last night. ;)

kupesdad
12-07-2012, 02:08 PM
I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper our team is worse. With him, our team is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/001/840/880/hi-res-121135992_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

You are right about the post game swelling.. I was in Denver for the game and he came off of the field as bad as I have seen him. He will be fine but made a good call by utilizing the ten days to get ready for the Ravens. It should be a good time in New Orleans in February :)

kupesdad
12-07-2012, 02:16 PM
I think it was Fox that said, Kuper had some scar tissue broken up in his ankle and was still sore from it, and they just wanted to give him a little extra time to get better. Ramirez apparently does stuggle with back issues, if its that bad I wonder how Chris Clark would be at guard, could he be any worse? Anyways sounds like we'll see Kuper back in there next game.

The scar tissue breaking up actually created more flexibility.... there was a bit of swelling in the high ankle where he was most recently injured. He has an opportunity to rest a bit more which will be helpful.

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 02:20 PM
I want to post this totally non-gay video in honor to Kuper

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/N2ICtCO8TCw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Agamemnon
12-07-2012, 02:24 PM
He is a can of suck. I had high hopes for him at one time. He has 4.4 speed, seems to run decent routes (at least in preseason), but he always seems to have one thoroughly irritating screw up, despite only getting very limited playing time.

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Denver draft a number 2 receiver, move Decker to the slot and be done with Willis. What does it say about Caldwell that he can't get on the field over a Willis?

I think I'd prefer Decker stay our #2. The guy is going to finish with right around a thousand yards. I'd rather we go for a traditional fast/small slot guy than try to force a big possession receiver into that position.

broncosteven
12-07-2012, 02:26 PM
I want to post this totally non-gay video in honor to Kuper

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/N2ICtCO8TCw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mancrushes are not gay.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2012, 02:46 PM
The scar tissue breaking up actually created more flexibility.... there was a bit of swelling in the high ankle where he was most recently injured. He has an opportunity to rest a bit more which will be helpful.

Best of luck. Maybe Manning can survive one more game without your son, that would probably be ideal.

Bacchus
12-07-2012, 04:32 PM
I'm not going to go into the stats. They speak for themselves. When Kuper is off the field, we Manning takes more sacks and more hits. When he's on the field our rushing average is better and Manning is better protected. I haven't heard what happened with his ankle, but I assume it is post game swelling that hadn't gone down enough and they wanted to rest him for Baltimore. Hopefully it wasn't re-injured.

Regardless, without Kuper our team is worse. With him, our team is better. We need our best offensive lineman on the field.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/001/840/880/hi-res-121135992_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

We might need to look for his replacement this off season if he can't get healthy. It has been a horrible year for him.

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 04:37 PM
We might need to look for his replacement this off season if he can't get healthy. It has been a horrible year for him.

He'll be fine. He basically had his ankle reconstructed and is going through that process. Scar tissue tearing away is common. By next year he's going to be ok.

Bacchus
12-07-2012, 04:48 PM
That's good to hear. Hopefully after ten days off he'll be ready to ball. Same goes for Woodyard.

Hopefully, Denver really needs him this week.

Bacchus
12-07-2012, 04:50 PM
He'll be fine. He basically had his ankle reconstructed and is going through that process. Scar tissue tearing away is common. By next year he's going to be ok.

Hopefully he can play next week and Denver can rest him for two weeks before the playoffs. Really the offense is so much better without Ramirez in it!

Chris
12-07-2012, 04:53 PM
I want to post this totally non-gay video in honor to Kuper

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/N2ICtCO8TCw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's not gay, it's necessary!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hn-enjcgV1o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

RaiderH8r
12-07-2012, 05:32 PM
He'll be fine. He basically had his ankle reconstructed and is going through that process. Scar tissue tearing away is common. By next year he's going to be ok.

He should rub some dirt on it. Always helps.

baja
12-07-2012, 07:05 PM
He'll be fine. He basically had his ankle reconstructed and is going through that process. Scar tissue tearing away is common. By next year he's going to be ok.

You guessing?

The Joker
12-07-2012, 07:25 PM
I think I'd prefer Decker stay our #2. The guy is going to finish with right around a thousand yards. I'd rather we go for a traditional fast/small slot guy than try to force a big possession receiver into that position.

I'd like to see them go after another outside WR to be honest.

Decker would still be the starter alongside Thomas, but when we go with three wides Decker could move inside and work the slot. I like him a lot more working the middle of the field.

Another deep threat apart from Thomas would be extremely useful, and I'd like to see another WR on the roster that I think could start. Neither Caldwell nor Willis look good enough, and Stokely is a pure slot guy.

I know the WR crop in free agency is pretty good this year, maybe we can get someone for a reasonable price? I don't expect any of the big names like Jennings, Bowe, Wallace and Welker to be in play for us, but someone from the second tier would be a nice addition.

The Joker
12-07-2012, 07:26 PM
You guessing?

He gets a good view of the ankle while he's lurking in the bushes outside Kuper's house, I'd guess.

Bacchus
12-07-2012, 07:26 PM
I'd like to see them go after another outside WR to be honest.

Decker would still be the starter alongside Thomas, but when we go with three wides Decker could move inside and work the slot. I like him a lot more working the middle of the field.

Another deep threat apart from Thomas would be extremely useful, and I'd like to see another WR on the roster that I think could start. Neither Caldwell nor Willis look good enough, and Stokely is a pure slot guy.

I know the WR crop in free agency is pretty good this year, maybe we can get someone for a reasonable price? I don't expect any of the big names like Jennings, Bowe, Wallace and Welker to be in play for us, but someone from the second tier would be a nice addition.

Yeah they need another outside WR and a slot. I imagine one of them in FA and one through the draft.

broncosteven
12-07-2012, 07:30 PM
He'll be fine. He basically had his ankle reconstructed and is going through that process. Scar tissue tearing away is common. By next year he's going to be ok.

He will be back to all pro studlyness next year. I sure hope he is healthy enough to contribute in the playoffs this year.

I would love to see us get a bye just to give Kuper and McGahee another week to heal up.

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 10:40 PM
You guessing?

Well I'm not a doctor, but it's not like he plays corner.

ZONA
12-07-2012, 10:55 PM
I think it was Fox that said, Kuper had some scar tissue broken up in his ankle and was still sore from it, and they just wanted to give him a little extra time to get better. Ramirez apparently does stuggle with back issues, if its that bad I wonder how Chris Clark would be at guard, could he be any worse? Anyways sounds like we'll see Kuper back in there next game.

Yeah, he was a scratch because they thought they could still win this game without him and with the 10 days off, if they held kuper out, that's 17 days off for him. Easy way to get a guy 2 weeks rest to help him heal up. They want him healthy for the Ravens.

Mogulseeker
12-07-2012, 11:08 PM
Manny has been a great backup, but the Raiders wasn't his outing.

Also, I'd put Kuper as our 3rd best lineman behind Clady and Franklin. That's not really a bad thing since I think the case can be made for the Broncos having the best oline in the NFL.

But yeah, he is a vast improvement over Manny.

Kaylore
12-07-2012, 11:22 PM
Manny has been a great backup, but the Raiders wasn't his outing.

Also, I'd put Kuper as our 3rd best lineman behind Clady and Franklin.

Clady maybe but not based on his last few games. And Franklin? Based on what?

CEH
12-08-2012, 12:50 AM
Doesn't help Denver that Kuper is not on the field.
I could easily see Denver first round pick being a young stud guard would have been DeCastro last year. If Kupe can play great but this is the NFL so it's a meat business for players and may the best guy play

lonestar
12-08-2012, 01:17 AM
Clady maybe but not based on his last few games. And Franklin? Based on what?

Was thiking much the same thing.

While the oline has looked good, most of the year the past few games not so much.

lonestar
12-08-2012, 01:25 AM
Ryan Harris also.

Yep he was keeper, started just slightly over 50% of the games he could have while a bronco.

Just what I want in an oline guy. Always in the training room trying to heal.

Even when he was in his run blocking was marginal. When Franklin showed up the running game got better.