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View Full Version : Can Moreno Help This Team Win?


RhymesayersDU
12-06-2012, 09:12 PM
I wasn't sure what to title this thread. I was going to title it "Can Moreno Be The Guy" but didn't know if that really conveyed the intent.

My premise here is that if he can get his **** together, can he get a significant amount of carries and help this team win? And not just tonight with 30+ carries, but next year when Willis McGahee is presumably back, or when we have FA options? Can Moreno do enough for this stretch for us to not have to commit resources to bringing a new running back in?

Look, I know he's not a first round pick. But I would suggest that he doesn't need to be. He doesn't need to be Adrian Peterson. He just needs to be average or above-average with Peyton Manning running the show.

So what say you? Can he play on this football team next season?

razorwire77
12-06-2012, 09:16 PM
Voted No. I think he will run hard this year and probably buy himself some more time in the league, but I'd be shocked if Denver didn't acquire a feature FA RB, and draft another back in a class that's much better than last year.

1A/1B FA Back/McGahee
2A/ Powerback draftpick
3rd Down/Change of pace back Hillman.

RhymesayersDU
12-06-2012, 09:18 PM
Voted No. I think he will run hard this year and probably buy himself some more time in the league, but I'd be shocked if Denver didn't acquire a feature FA RB, and draft another back in a class that's much better than last year.

1A/1B FA Back/McGahee
2A/ Powerback draftpick
3rd Down/Change of pace back Hillman.

I don't necessarily disagree that Moreno is gone, but you think we both draft a guy and sign a guy? I'm not sure on that. I could see more of an either/or situation. We can beef up other spots on this roster.

lolcopter
12-06-2012, 09:20 PM
All he needs to do is move the chains and don't turn the ball over, anything more is gravy

Bacchus
12-06-2012, 09:21 PM
Neither Hillman or Moreno has shown me they can be anything but serviceable. With Manning that could be enough to win the SB, I do not know. I know in the draft they need to look for another back to compete with these guys.

RhymesayersDU
12-06-2012, 09:24 PM
Neither Hillman or Moreno has shown me they can be anything but serviceable. With Manning that could be enough to win the SB, I do not know. I know in the draft they need to look for another back to compete with these guys.

I guess my question would be, can we get by with serviceable and beef up other spots on this roster going forward? Because I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of Hillman or Moreno, but I wonder if we can still get by with them.

Cito Pelon
12-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Certainly Moreno can be a prime contributor to the offense. But they still need to bolster the RB corps through the draft. If the team is dumb enough to let Moreno go, he'll be snapped up real fast by another team. Best bet is to keep Moreno/McGahee/Hillman, but bring in some competition on day two.

Bacchus
12-06-2012, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I think they are all solid, but don't you want better than that? They will have to do for this year and I think because of Manning they can still provide enough to win the Super Bowl. Me personally would love to see Jeremiah Johnson get a shot but it is not going to happen.

Agamemnon
12-06-2012, 09:38 PM
He "can" be, but I seriously doubt he will be. If he tears it up from hear on out, that might change, but right now I think Fox is going to push for his kind of back in the 1st or 2nd round.

RhymesayersDU
12-06-2012, 09:40 PM
Yeah, I think they are all solid, but don't you want better than that? They will have to do for this year and I think because of Manning they can still provide enough to win the Super Bowl. Me personally would love to see Jeremiah Johnson get a shot but it is not going to happen.

Of course I want better. But I also want every position on the roster to be a Pro Bowler. That's unrealistic.

What I'm wondering is if we can get better at other positions and still be OK at RB. We only have so much money to spend and so many draft picks to use.

RhymesayersDU
12-06-2012, 09:41 PM
He "can" be, but I seriously doubt he will be. If he tears it up from hear on out, that might change, but right now I think Fox is going to push for his kind of back in the 1st or 2nd round.

I can appreciate an elite RB, I do... but man I'd rather continue to make the defense better that early in the draft.

Agamemnon
12-06-2012, 09:44 PM
Of course I want better. But I also want every position on the roster to be a Pro Bowler. That's unrealistic.

What I'm wondering is if we can get better at other positions and still be OK at RB. We only have so much money to spend and so many draft picks to use.

What positions do you see as greater priorities? MLB seems rather obvious, but beyond that I can't think of any position we have a greater need at than running back. Mind you McGahee is pretty much done as a back. 30+ year old backs almost never last long.

razorwire77
12-06-2012, 09:46 PM
I don't necessarily disagree that Moreno is gone, but you think we both draft a guy and sign a guy? I'm not sure on that. I could see more of an either/or situation. We can beef up other spots on this roster.

With the limited Peyton window, I think you''re going to see lots of movement to acquire offensive weapons. If we're honest, sans Demaryius this team lacks elite athleticism at TE, RB, and secondary receivers. KM is certainly a better utility back than Ball, but with his pending salary increase and special team limitations I doubt he's going to be in the plans long term.

I think Denver will make a FA play for a younger workhorse back. This will bump Willis McGahee to goal line/short yardage duty (what he was supposed to be from the beginning). I think they will hen draft another back fairly high to eventually replace Willis. I think they will keep Hillman as a 3rd Down back for another season. Doesn't leave a lot of room for Moreno.

Keep in mind, we're probably only a couple of years away from the Brock Osweiller show. They're going to want to have a decent stable of backs as a safety blanket.

RhymesayersDU
12-06-2012, 09:46 PM
What positions do you see as greater priorities? MLB seems rather obvious, but beyond that I can't think of any position we have a greater need at than running back. Mind you McGahee is pretty much done as a back. 30+ year old backs almost never last long.

That's fair. I mean we really hit on Chris Harris, and Moore is improving. We do need a MLB, as you stated. I don't know, I just feel like depth in other areas might help more? Maybe I'm wrong here, and more RB help would be the best route.

Agamemnon
12-06-2012, 09:48 PM
I can appreciate an elite RB, I do... but man I'd rather continue to make the defense better that early in the draft.

I'd prefer a MLB in the 1st round, but if there's a back who is clearly better than any MLB on the board I really can't see any reasonable argument against it. A dynamic running back would be like adding nitro to a sports car. Yes it was fast before, but now it's from another world. (Run blocking needs to be fixed as well mind you.)

pricejj
12-06-2012, 09:51 PM
Were set at RB, except for a late rounder to replace Lance Ball.

Bring us to the Superbowl dudes.

Agamemnon
12-06-2012, 09:52 PM
With the limited Peyton window, I think you''re going to see lots of movement to acquire offensive weapons. If we're honest, sans Demaryius this team lacks elite athleticism at TE, RB, and secondary receivers. KM is certainly a better utility back than Ball, but with his pending salary increase and special team limitations I doubt he's going to be in the plans long term.

I think Denver will make a FA play for a younger workhorse back. This will bump Willis McGahee to goal line/short yardage duty (what he was supposed to be from the beginning). I think they will hen draft another back fairly high to eventually replace Willis. I think they will keep Hillman as a 3rd Down back for another season. Doesn't leave a lot of room for Moreno.

Keep in mind, we're probably only a couple of years away from the Brock Osweiller show. They're going to want to have a decent stable of backs as a safety blanket.

I don't see any reason to think Manning is going to retire any time soon.

Bacchus
12-06-2012, 09:54 PM
Of course I want better. But I also want every position on the roster to be a Pro Bowler. That's unrealistic.

What I'm wondering is if we can get better at other positions and still be OK at RB. We only have so much money to spend and so many draft picks to use.

Well, I would use at least a 3rd or 4th rounder on a back next year. I would leave all FA RBs alone and spend that money elsewhere.

BroncoBen
12-06-2012, 09:59 PM
The Broncos have no choice but to rely on Moreno the rest of the way, all he has to do is pick up a few 1st downs.. And not turnover the ball !

razorwire77
12-06-2012, 10:00 PM
So other than Manti Te'o, who short of getting caught with a dead prostitute in his trunk the week before the combine, we have no chance of getting, who are some of the other MLB's that might be worth a pick in the late 20's to 32? The kid from Georgia? I like the Skove (sp?) kid from Stanford.

Agamemnon
12-06-2012, 10:26 PM
So other than Manti Te'o, who short of getting caught with a dead prostitute in his trunk the week before the combine, we have no chance of getting, who are some of the other MLB's that might be worth a pick in the late 20's to 32? The kid from Georgia? I like the Skove (sp?) kid from Stanford.

Kevin Minter might be a good choice late in the 1st. If he declares that is.

lolcopter
12-06-2012, 10:45 PM
I can appreciate an elite RB, I do... but man I'd rather continue to make the defense better that early in the draft.

Defense is #3 overall currently yet we still hear this argument? BPA all day

lonestar
12-06-2012, 10:52 PM
Unless he blows it up the rest of the season I think they will ask him to work for less guaranteed and offer him incentives. Which mean he can earn those big buck or actually pay back all those big check he has received while in rehab.

RhymesayersDU
12-07-2012, 06:12 AM
Defense is #3 overall currently yet we still hear this argument? BPA all day

I didn't say the defense sucks or anything. But anyways BPA isn't a bad idea.

Rabb
12-07-2012, 06:21 AM
I don't know how anyone can vote no here, he did what he was asked on a night when the line was playing very up and down.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2012, 06:27 AM
Look, I know he's not a first round pick.

1. He is a first rounder.

2. He's actually already out-performed half of the 1st round RBs drafted in the last 10 years. People's views are tainted of what a 1st round RB should look like by a handful of guys, but forget all the other ones taken that have done NOTHING. The draft, even the first round, is a crap shoot. And Moreno has actually already had a comparable or better career than most first round RBs. And he's not even close to being done yet.

Get Kuper back in there and Moreno has probably 200 all purpose yards last night. Even without him, he's been more than serviceable the last 3 weeks. Let's enjoy this.

baja
12-07-2012, 06:29 AM
I don't know how anyone can vote no here, he did what he was asked on a night when the line was playing very up and down.

I don't even understand how one can make a thread like this with a straight face unless maybe they are a very casual fan.

Requiem
12-07-2012, 06:33 AM
This is not the year you want to be hunting for a high round pick at RB in the draft. It is one of the worst senior classes in recent memory and the underclassmen who are elligible would be better served to go back and round out their skills. I want our first and second round picks to have an impact from day one. Those guys should be starters. What players in the draft at RB are we going to get in the late first and second round who are going to do that for this team? Probably none.

Moreno's contract next year is not that bad. IIRC, it is no more than 1.5 million buckaroos, which is less than a few other players who don't contribute nearly as much to the team. If he continues to play this way, he will have earned a role on this team moving forward. The club has a 5 million dollar option on him in 2014 which will more than likely be declined, but I don't see the sense in getting rid of the guy considering McGahee's injury and age, Hillman's inexperience and the fact that we have nothing remotely promising behind them.

socalorado
12-07-2012, 06:36 AM
1. He is a first rounder.

2. He's actually already out-performed half of the 1st round RBs drafted in the last 10 years. People's views are tainted of what a 1st round RB should look like by a handful of guys, but forget all the other ones taken that have done NOTHING. The draft, even the first round, is a crap shoot. And Moreno has actually already had a comparable or better career than most first round RBs. And he's not even close to being done yet.

Get Kuper back in there and Moreno has probably 200 all purpose yards last night. Even without him, he's been more than serviceable the last 3 weeks. Let's enjoy this.

Obviously if he plays like he did last night and that kind of a performance becomes the norm, of course he becomes a huge part of helping this team win. C'mon people. The guy hammered Chokeland all night.
We all just need to see that same kind of a perfromance week in and week out. And no, i am not saying he needs to carry the rock 30 times a game.

RhymesayersDU
12-07-2012, 07:05 AM
I don't even understand how one can make a thread like this with a straight face unless maybe they are a very casual fan.

Coming from you, I take that as an extreme compliment.

Drek
12-07-2012, 07:25 AM
He was a pretty significant part of last night's win I'd say, so hard not to answer yes.

Long term he can be, but needs to show a little more. Part of that is needing better OL play but Moreno needs to do things like that 27 yard screen pass a bit more often, he's got the ability.

I'm hoping they bring McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman back for next season with a mid to late round draftee filling out the 4 RBs and a UDFA on the PS. We have bigger needs for our early picks than a RB, given what we already have and how this offense works. If improving the running game is the focus then spend our first round pick on Barrett Jones out of Alabama and let him go after everyone on the OL's jobs, with a bias towards winning the job at center. Keep Walton around if he does though so if Kuper can't stay healthy or one of the others gets hurt Jones bumps out and Walton steps in.

You could make a strong argument for this new, 218 pound Moreno being the ideal back for a Manning lead offense. He's the best back we have in the passing game because he is far better at running routes and catching the ball than McGahee while being a comparable blocker. Hillman and Ball don't come even close as blockers, so they're ruled out immediately. He's now showing an ability to knife through small holes up the middle to pick up 3rd and shorts, something he never used to do but has done the last few weeks with consistency. His ball security is at an all time career high. And when he gets the ball in the open field, like on a screen pass or a perfectly blocked running play, he's got enough wiggle and burst to put up some nice YAC.

A more explosive version of Moreno is what we need in a feature back for this offense. Someone who has the potential to take 20 carries and 5 catches and turn it into 150 yards. Until we find that guy Moreno is the ideal place holder.

pricejj
12-07-2012, 07:36 AM
He was a pretty significant part of last night's win I'd say, so hard not to answer yes.

Long term he can be, but needs to show a little more. Part of that is needing better OL play but Moreno needs to do things like that 27 yard screen pass a bit more often, he's got the ability.

I'm hoping they bring McGahee, Moreno, and Hillman back for next season with a mid to late round draftee filling out the 4 RBs and a UDFA on the PS. We have bigger needs for our early picks than a RB, given what we already have and how this offense works. If improving the running game is the focus then spend our first round pick on Barrett Jones out of Alabama and let him go after everyone on the OL's jobs, with a bias towards winning the job at center. Keep Walton around if he does though so if Kuper can't stay healthy or one of the others gets hurt Jones bumps out and Walton steps in.

You could make a strong argument for this new, 218 pound Moreno being the ideal back for a Manning lead offense. He's the best back we have in the passing game because he is far better at running routes and catching the ball than McGahee while being a comparable blocker. Hillman and Ball don't come even close as blockers, so they're ruled out immediately. He's now showing an ability to knife through small holes up the middle to pick up 3rd and shorts, something he never used to do but has done the last few weeks with consistency. His ball security is at an all time career high. And when he gets the ball in the open field, like on a screen pass or a perfectly blocked running play, he's got enough wiggle and burst to put up some nice YAC.

A more explosive version of Moreno is what we need in a feature back for this offense. Someone who has the potential to take 20 carries and 5 catches and turn it into 150 yards. Until we find that guy Moreno is the ideal place holder.

Great analysis Drek. Spot on with the Barrett Jones pick too. As the season rolls on, interior OL appears to be the biggest weakness on this team.

A few days ago, you said you wanted to see some big plays from Knowshon...and you got them last night.

Drek
12-07-2012, 08:01 AM
Great analysis Drek. Spot on with the Barrett Jones pick too. As the season rolls on, interior OL appears to be the biggest weakness on this team.

A few days ago, you said you wanted to see some big plays from Knowshon...and you got them last night.

Yep, he gave us a big play on that screen pass, which is exactly what I was hoping for.

When the offense was at it's best last night Manning was using Moreno as his safety net with consistency, which is a wrinkle we've been without all season due to McGahee's stone hands and Hillman's lack of polish. If that continues to develop Manning will be a hard man to sack and you'll see very few plays for zero yards by this offense. Could be the next step Moreno takes and it would make this offense deadly.

RhymesayersDU
12-07-2012, 08:52 AM
Uh McGahee has been pretty good out of the backfield catching the ball. I know he's had some drops but he's had 26 catches for 221 yards in 10 games. Now I'm not sure how many catches you would prefer see, or how many Knowshon could have on a consistent basis, but I thought McGahee has been OK catching out of the backfield.

Drek
12-07-2012, 09:21 AM
Uh McGahee has been pretty good out of the backfield catching the ball. I know he's had some drops but he's had 26 catches for 221 yards in 10 games. Now I'm not sure how many catches you would prefer see, or how many Knowshon could have on a consistent basis, but I thought McGahee has been OK catching out of the backfield.

1. Moreno has already caught 13 passes himself and he's only really been playing for three weeks now.

2. McGahee's 26 catches this year ranks 3rd on his all time career receptions total for a season. Think about that. The guy normally doesn't catch 20 balls in 16 games, so why do you think he's a pretty good receiver?

3. McGahee's career yards per catch: 6.5, Moreno's career yards per catch: 8.8.

4. McGahee's 26 catches have come on 33 targets, or a reception rate of ~78%. Moreno's 13 receptions have come on 15 targets, a reception rate of ~86%. McGahee's receptions resulted in a first down on 10 of his 26 catches, or ~38%, Moreno's resulted in a first down on 7 of his 13, or ~53%.

5. This is all before you apply the eye test to them, where Moreno looks like a natural route runner and receiver, making nice cuts, finding space, attacking the ball in the air, and securing it seemlessly. Meanwhile McGahee needs be thrown to in the flats before defenders have closed, otherwise he has a hard time getting open, and does not consistently catch with his hands, instead body catching a lot of passes thrown his way.

The gap between the two of them as receivers is pretty significant, and will only grow as the familiarity (both with Manning and with the offensive scheme) shrinks.

RhymesayersDU
12-07-2012, 09:24 AM
Interesting points, Drek. Thanks for the stats.

Edit: My only point was that I disagree with the idea that we've been "without a threat all season due to McGahee's stone hands." Am I saying he's a world class pass catcher out of the backfield? No, but I thought he was having a productive year in that role before getting hurt.

Drek
12-07-2012, 09:43 AM
Interesting points, Drek. Thanks for the stats.

Edit: My only point was that I disagree with the idea that we've been "without a threat all season due to McGahee's stone hands." Am I saying he's a world class pass catcher out of the backfield? No, but I thought he was having a productive year in that role before getting hurt.

He's been a tolerable substitute but it was clear early on that the coaching staff was trying to push Hillman into taking that role away from McGahee, we then spent several weeks trying to get Lance Ball involved as that guy as well.

Suddenly when Moreno takes over Ball doesn't get off the bench when we have the ball.

What I'm saying is that we've been pounding square pegs int round holes for that role and just getting by. Now we have a real receiving option out of the backfield seeing the majority of RB snaps and in even this small sample we can see how much Manning likes having that available.

pricejj
12-07-2012, 09:58 AM
1. McGahee never had Manning throwing him the rock. He was getting the job done in Denver. He was dependable, except for the rash of fumbles...on pace for 45 receptions and 1200 yards (Pro Bowl level).
2. If Knowshon continues his emergence, he will push McGahee for starter in 2013.
3. Hillman is going to be scary in 2013. He has speed that Knowshon doesn't have. He just needs to bulk up.
4. Replace Ball with mid to late draft pick, and we're set.


Loved how both Moreno and Hillman finally showed the ability to cutback. There obviously has been some book learnin' going on in practice.

Still need better OL play.

broncosteven
12-07-2012, 10:03 AM
I think KM has proven he can be a good backup and step up when needed. I keep pointing out that his play is keeping Lance Ball off the field which makes us better.

I do wonder if they will want to pay him what he is due next year.

If the poll were could he be a Feature back starter that could help this team win I would have said no or it's SOB's fault.

razorwire77
12-07-2012, 10:05 AM
He's been a tolerable substitute but it was clear early on that the coaching staff was trying to push Hillman into taking that role away from McGahee, we then spent several weeks trying to get Lance Ball involved as that guy as well.

Suddenly when Moreno takes over Ball doesn't get off the bench when we have the ball.

What I'm saying is that we've been pounding square pegs int round holes for that role and just getting by. Now we have a real receiving option out of the backfield seeing the majority of RB snaps and in even this small sample we can see how much Manning likes having that available.

Good post. He's a tolerable substitute. He's a decent receiving back and blocker. He's the best option we've got for the remainder of the season. He's playing hard and I think it's critical to play to his strengths (catching the football, quick hitters etc.) and avoid his weaknesses (plays that take a long time to develop delayed draws/sweeps etc.)

baja
12-07-2012, 10:06 AM
He's been a tolerable substitute but it was clear early on that the coaching staff was trying to push Hillman into taking that role away from McGahee, we then spent several weeks trying to get Lance Ball involved as that guy as well.

Suddenly when Moreno takes over Ball doesn't get off the bench when we have the ball.

What I'm saying is that we've been pounding square pegs int round holes for that role and just getting by. Now we have a real receiving option out of the backfield seeing the majority of RB snaps and in even this small sample we can see how much Manning likes having that available.

Which leads me to believe Moreno was not playing because he had attitude issues and maybe did not practice with the necessary intensity. So Fox made him inactive for 8 weeks in hopes he would wake up and take his football career seriously and he looks like he did.

Drek
12-07-2012, 11:31 AM
I think KM has proven he can be a good backup and step up when needed. I keep pointing out that his play is keeping Lance Ball off the field which makes us better.

I do wonder if they will want to pay him what he is due next year.

If the poll were could he be a Feature back starter that could help this team win I would have said no or it's SOB's fault.

He's only due $1.7M next year, it's 2014 when he's got a $5.8M option bonus waiting in the wings if I recall. So we could easily keep him around for next season if the staff would prefer to do so.

Good post. He's a tolerable substitute. He's a decent receiving back and blocker. He's the best option we've got for the remainder of the season. He's playing hard and I think it's critical to play to his strengths (catching the football, quick hitters etc.) and avoid his weaknesses (plays that take a long time to develop delayed draws/sweeps etc.)
He definitely doesn't do well with plays that enable his tentative nature, that's for sure. Draw plays are a waste of time with him, he needs to be forced into quick reads. His instincts aren't even that bad when he just runs and stops looking to turn everything into a touchdown by doubling back and running side to side.

Which leads me to believe Moreno was not playing because he had attitude issues and maybe did not practice with the necessary intensity. So Fox made him inactive for 8 weeks in hopes he would wake up and take his football career seriously and he looks like he did.
I'm sure that was some part of it, but I honestly think the health ramifications of his ACL tear from late last season goes overlooked far too often. He's barely a year removed from it now, him coming back for camp and pre-season was clearly WAY too soon.

We're lucky our other backs stayed as healthy as they did, otherwise we likely would have had to IR or release Moreno to add depth and we'd now be forced to start a Lance Ball/Ronnie Hillman 1/2 punch, which is no good for anyone at all.

socalorado
12-07-2012, 11:59 AM
Which leads me to believe Moreno was not playing because he had attitude issues and maybe did not practice with the necessary intensity. So Fox made him inactive for 8 weeks in hopes he would wake up and take his football career seriously and he looks like he did.

Yeah, as others have noticed, there was no stupid celebrations after Slowshon ran for 5 yards last night. He just got up, gave the ball to the ref and went back to the huddle. No stupid celebration after the TD either. He just made that weird hand gesture over his helmet and went to the sideline.
I think he had an intervention at Dove Valley early this year somewhere, and he has grown up alot.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2012, 12:18 PM
1. McGahee never had Manning throwing him the rock. He was getting the job done in Denver. He was dependable, except for the rash of fumbles...on pace for 45 receptions and 1200 yards (Pro Bowl level).
2. If Knowshon continues his emergence, he will push McGahee for starter in 2013.
3. Hillman is going to be scary in 2013. He has speed that Knowshon doesn't have. He just needs to bulk up.
4. Replace Ball with mid to late draft pick, and we're set.


Loved how both Moreno and Hillman finally showed the ability to cutback. There obviously has been some book learnin' going on in practice.

Still need better OL play.

Maybe Ball doesn't have to be replaced. Chris Gronk would be the guy replaced, or Hester. The Broncs are only carrying what, 3 active RB's? Usually you'd see four active RB's, correct? They can keep Willis one more year, then Ball/Moreno/Hillman and a draftee to replace Gronk on the active gameday roster.

Ball has been a decent contributor, would still play ST's, and the draftee would contribute also on ST's. Or win a place in the starting rotation.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Yeah, as others have noticed, there was no stupid celebrations after Slowshon ran for 5 yards last night. He just got up, gave the ball to the ref and went back to the huddle. No stupid celebration after the TD either. He just made that weird hand gesture over his helmet and went to the sideline.
I think he had an intervention at Dove Valley early this year somewhere, and he has grown up alot.

Yeah, I was happy to see Moreno not wasting time and focus barking at the defenders after a good run, that was one thing that always pissed me off about him. Probably pissed off Studesville et al also.

Heyneck
12-07-2012, 12:56 PM
Maybe Ball doesn't have to be replaced. Chris Gronk would be the guy replaced, or Hester. The Broncs are only carrying what, 3 active RB's? Usually you'd see four active RB's, correct? They can keep Willis one more year, then Ball/Moreno/Hillman and a draftee to replace Gronk on the active gameday roster.

Ball has been a decent contributor, would still play ST's, and the draftee would contribute also on ST's. Or win a place in the starting rotation.

I still don't understand this kind of love that Ball gets. We can do way better than Ball.

baja
12-07-2012, 01:10 PM
Yeah, I was happy to see Moreno not wasting time and focus barking at the defenders after a good run, that was one thing that always pissed me off about him. Probably pissed off Studesville et al also.

The guy that probably chewed his ass out was Manning in the hurry up offense.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
I still don't understand this kind of love that Ball gets. We can do way better than Ball.

Maybe. They'll certainly try to. Like I said though, Chris Gronk is the guy that should be replaced. Unrein is the fullback. Ball is part of all the ST's, and the ST's are doing well, don't try to fix what isn't broken.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2012, 01:30 PM
The guy that probably chewed his ass out was Manning in the hurry up offense.

Yup. Moreno dicking around getting back to his place was probably infuriating Manning. And for good reason.

Drek
12-07-2012, 01:47 PM
Maybe Ball doesn't have to be replaced. Chris Gronk would be the guy replaced, or Hester. The Broncs are only carrying what, 3 active RB's? Usually you'd see four active RB's, correct? They can keep Willis one more year, then Ball/Moreno/Hillman and a draftee to replace Gronk on the active gameday roster.

Ball has been a decent contributor, would still play ST's, and the draftee would contribute also on ST's. Or win a place in the starting rotation.

This **** again?

I repeatedly said back when the team were making final cuts and everyone was talking about how Knowshon needed to get the axe how dumb that was if this team kept Ball around.

Lance Ball is a replacement level player. By that I mean if you released him at the end of a season no one would sign him and you could sign someone comparable any given day off of anyone's practice squad or hell, even as a street FA.

He plays STs, big deal. A lot of guys do, and any mid to late round draftee will have to do so as well. Its not like Ball is even a standout on special teams.

He and Matt Willis are the two most easily replaced guys on our offense and are sucking up roster spots we could be using on younger, higher upside guys.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2012, 02:05 PM
This **** again?

I repeatedly said back when the team were making final cuts and everyone was talking about how Knowshon needed to get the axe how dumb that was if this team kept Ball around.

Lance Ball is a replacement level player. By that I mean if you released him at the end of a season no one would sign him and you could sign someone comparable any given day off of anyone's practice squad or hell, even as a street FA.

He plays STs, big deal. A lot of guys do, and any mid to late round draftee will have to do so as well. Its not like Ball is even a standout on special teams.

He and Matt Willis are the two most easily replaced guys on our offense and are sucking up roster spots we could be using on younger, higher upside guys.

Maybe, and maybe not. Andre Caldwell hasn't taken the bull by the horns. ST's are a big deal, they liked Willis enough to re-sign him last year I believe, and Ball is a young guy.

It's not up to me or you. They'll certainly try to upgrade all over next draft and FA, and those two might fall by the wayside. The new guys might be better or might not be.

RhymesayersDU
12-16-2012, 01:22 PM
Anybody have further thoughts after today's performance?

Mogulseeker
12-16-2012, 01:27 PM
Anybody have further thoughts after today's performance?

Moreno has looked like a full-time starter to me. Don't understand why he still has haters.

Agamemnon
12-16-2012, 01:31 PM
Moreno has looked like a full-time starter to me. Don't understand why he still has haters.

Even if he keeps playing like this week after week he's going to keep having haters because he was a) drafted by McD and b) lacks breakaway speed. Personally I'd love to keep getting this kind of hard-nosed production out of him as long as possible. Not having to draft a RB high next draft would be a boon.

maven
12-16-2012, 01:32 PM
Anybody have further thoughts after today's performance?

Nothing has changed in my eyes. Let McGahee go and bring another back in whether it's the draft or FA.

Beantown Bronco
12-16-2012, 01:34 PM
It's great to see his hard work and determination paying off. It's certainly been awhile since I've had a sarcastic post directed my way about him.

lonestar
12-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Even if he keeps playing like this week after week he's going to keep having haters because he was a) drafted by McD and b) lacks breakaway speed. Personally I'd love to keep getting this kind of hard-nosed production out of him as long as possible. Not having to draft a RB high next draft would be a boon.

I beleive it is more A than B.

So much hate for anything Mc D..

RhymesayersDU
12-16-2012, 01:39 PM
Even if he keeps playing like this week after week he's going to keep having haters because he was a) drafted by McD and b) lacks breakaway speed. Personally I'd love to keep getting this kind of hard-nosed production out of him as long as possible. Not having to draft a RB high next draft would be a boon.

I couldn't disagree more.

I think Bronco fans hate him because of his reputation of dancing and his complete inability to stay healthy, IMO.

I really don't think this is a McD thing. McD drafted Demaryius, too.

lolcopter
12-16-2012, 01:56 PM
Fans hate him because herpderpbrianorakpo

Drek
12-16-2012, 02:24 PM
Nothing has changed in my eyes. Let McGahee go and bring another back in whether it's the draft or FA.

No way. McGahee is signed for $2.5M in 2013 and $2M in 2014. You can't beat that value with a seal wackin' club.

This is an offensive system that is likely to continue carrying 4 RBs on the 53 man roster.

Keep Moreno, let him be the feature back.

Keep McGahee, let him be the short yardage pounder so we can let Hester compete with Gronkowski next camp for the FB job.

Keep Hillman, see what he looks like with some real NFL strength and conditioning, kid has wheels just needs to grow some.

Draft a the best mid to late round value back on their board to groom.

We have a rare opportunity in the post-Shanahan era for RB to look like a real deep strength, where we can survive a big injury and plug and play our way to continued wins. Team friendly contracts all around, so start grooming McGahee's eventual replacement

maven
12-16-2012, 02:25 PM
No way. McGahee is signed for $2.5M in 2013 and $2M in 2014. You can't beat that value with a seal wackin' club.

This is an offensive system that is likely to continue carrying 4 RBs on the 53 man roster.

Keep Moreno, let him be the feature back.

Keep McGahee, let him be the short yardage pounder so we can let Hester compete with Gronkowski next camp for the FB job.

Keep Hillman, see what he looks like with some real NFL strength and conditioning, kid has wheels just needs to grow some.

Draft a the best mid to late round value back on their board to groom.

We have a rare opportunity in the post-Shanahan era for RB to look like a real deep strength, where we can survive a big injury and plug and play our way to continued wins. Team friendly contracts all around, so start grooming McGahee's eventual replacement

Is that guaranteed #'s?

Drek
12-16-2012, 02:37 PM
Is that guaranteed #'s?

Nope, that's his salary, per rotoworld. His deal was 4 years, $9.5M with $3M guaranteed and $2M of that up front. So he's only got $1M in other guaranteed money spread through the back three years, i.e. nothing to even worry about at this point.

$2.5M and $2M base salaries are fantastic rates for a guy with his tool set. If he hit the FA market he'd probably get $4-$5M on a short deal right now with how he's played with us when healthy.

Keeping McGahee is the only way we're assured a quality 20+ carry a game guy behind Moreno for next season. No free agent better than McGahee (like Steven Jackson) is signing here to do anything less than take 60% of the carries and even then they'll demand a premium. McGahee is already familiar and proven in the system with a low cost price tag.

montrose
12-16-2012, 04:24 PM
I couldn't disagree more.

I think Bronco fans hate him because of his reputation of dancing and his complete inability to stay healthy, IMO.

I really don't think this is a McD thing. McD drafted Demaryius, too.

He was McD's first pick, a lot of people were pissed the instant he was drafted. Either they wanted Orakpo, or thought it was too high for a RB, had man-love for Hillis, or whatever.

In many ways he (and Orton, IMO) became the symbol of their hatred for McDaniels. Throw in that RBs selected that high are expected to make a massive impact and although he had a decent rookie year it wasn't expectional - you had a recipe for some major dislike.

There' s also the fact that for so many years under Shanny he would take late round/UDFA types and get good production out of them, specifically by emphasizing one-cut runners. Now here comes a mid-first rounder who dances.

He hasn't lived up to his draft status, obviously. But even before this latest streak he's been on - he's never sucked as badly as some made him out to. He's always been a complete back (which was his rep coming out of UGA), just not explosive or durable. I'll always go to bat for him that the 2009/2010 OLs he ran behind weren't very good run blocking lines - just look at the other backs that he played with.

In recent weeks the areas it appears he's improved in are his vision, patience and conditioning. The thing is - he still doesn't look like the player I thought he'd be coming out of Georgia. He's gotten better, looks like a very solid starting RB but the funny thing is- this is how I thought he'd play his rookie year and then get better from there. With that, he's only 25 and it's quite possible that he'll continue improving until he reaches the level of a top 5-10 RB. He certainly seems like he's learned what kind of player he is, and with his skillset - he's a good fit in this offense.

Drek
12-16-2012, 05:01 PM
In recent weeks the areas it appears he's improved in are his vision, patience and conditioning. The thing is - he still doesn't look like the player I thought he'd be coming out of Georgia. He's gotten better, looks like a very solid starting RB but the funny thing is- this is how I thought he'd play his rookie year and then get better from there. With that, he's only 25 and it's quite possible that he'll continue improving until he reaches the level of a top 5-10 RB. He certainly seems like he's learned what kind of player he is, and with his skillset - he's a good fit in this offense.

I've said since he came out of college that he reminds me of both Tiki Barber and Thomas Jones. Two guys who took a few years to put it together in the NFL but then turned in solid year after solid year. With the weight Moreno has put on the last few years he's looking a lot like Thomas Jones as a runner, with a similar churning style. Jones had a similar burst at the end of his 4th year, dropping four good games (not overall as good as what Moreno is doing now, FYI) in 2003 with Tampa Bay, then went to Chicago and started putting up his 1K+ seasons. Moreno still has the potential to be that kind of back if he keeps this up.

DENVERDUI55
01-12-2013, 08:14 PM
What happened to Moreno? I never thought I would say it but the offense wasn't the same without him. The offense seemed a lot more unpredictable with him and clicked a lot better. This was a big injury that isn't getting discussed. Another injury during the game won't help China doll rep.

razorwire77
01-12-2013, 08:22 PM
KM had a great rebound this season, but let's not pretend like he was Walter Payton today. He was essentially shut down before he left with his injury. I actually thought Hillman was one of the few guys that didn't **** the bed on our team today. Hester was worthless though.

Either way, we don't have an elite RB (AP, Gore, Foster, etc.) Probably need to draft another back and or get the best available FA.

Jacob Hester = Gone. Lance Ball = Gone.

Bring back everybody else + a FA and or a high draft pick and have an open competition at RB.

BroncoBen
01-12-2013, 08:26 PM
KM had a great rebound this season, but let's not pretend like he was Walter Payton today. He was essentially shut down before he left with his injury. I actually thought Hillman was one of the few guys that didn't **** the bed on our team today. Hester was worthless though.

Either way, we don't have an elite RB (AP, Gore, Foster, etc.) Probably need to draft another back and or get the best available FA.

Jacob Hester = Gone. Lance Ball = Gone.

Bring back everybody else + a FA and or a high draft pick and have an open competition at RB.

The Broncos showed they have some depth issues.. Running back, offensive and defensive line to start with.