View Full Version : The Orange Mane motivated me…
Since 2001 I have posted here off and on and I have enjoyed the debates - to a point. But at times it can be a bit like pissing into the wind – so I thought I would do something else for awhile. It took a few years, but I made a history board game called We the People Fight Tyranny www.wethepeoplegame.com . The history shows were we have been – while the satire/humor attempts to use absurd examples of intrusive government to outline where we seem to be headed. I am sure that those here who think that government should be expanded and should be more intrusive will despise it.
One thing that is a bit different about the game is that it is a trivial game – that is usually not trivial. Also, it is meticulously sourced – each history card (a total of 500 history cards) are sourced with where we obtained the information. We used over 100 of books and hundreds of online resources some books/author were left of center (like Hofstadter and Beard) – and some were right of center. But in each case, I doubled checked everything and attempted to use the best sources possible, including original sources. Yes, there is some red meat in a few of the history cards like I posted on my website, but there are few history cards that might pop a few of the right’s misconceptions about certain historical figures like JFK.
There are 50 also Big Brother cards and about 130 Social Justice cards.
Regardless, thought you could use a break from the normal banter…peace-out.
Crushaholic
12-06-2012, 11:43 AM
It looks like a good game, but I'm concerned about the price. I know you have to make a profit, but the price point could scare off potential buyers (particularly in this economy). It's a noble effort, though. I wish you well...^5
It looks like a good game, but I'm concerned about the price. I know you have to make a profit, but the price point could scare off potential buyers (particularly in this economy). It's a noble effort, though. I wish you well...^5
Thanks! The game board is over 2 feet, with 700 cards and as it was made in America - that added cost. Also, I could only afford to make 2000 games - to start. Maybe the next edition will be a bit less.
If you weren't aiming it at the rump of the populace that are theocrats and/or 'baggers, your sales would be better.
Requiem
12-06-2012, 12:33 PM
Lame.
Certainly anything that discusses the Constitution and its limiting powers for tyrants is lame - if you are a statist.
Certainly anything that discusses the Constitution and its limiting powers for tyrants is lame - if you are a statist.
You're the opposite of a "statist", then. What is that?
Fedaykin
12-06-2012, 03:50 PM
Looks like a lame, vastly overpriced rip off of Monopoly with about zero fun potential (looks like a game only a particularly deranged mind would find fun).
Yay?
orinjkrush
12-06-2012, 03:52 PM
looks like a night of fun. tried to buy one, but the website won't let me update the cart.
Fedaykin
12-06-2012, 03:57 PM
looks like a night of fun. tried to buy one, but the website won't let me update the cart.
could be made interested with some house rules, and lots of alcohol =P
orinjkrush
12-06-2012, 04:04 PM
could be made interested with some house rules, and lots of alcohol =P
definitely see this as a drinking/ cursing game
Requiem
12-06-2012, 04:45 PM
Certainly anything that discusses the Constitution and its limiting powers for tyrants is lame - if you are a statist.
Shut up Bob. This is a stupid game.
Rohirrim
12-07-2012, 07:48 AM
Immature propaganda.
You're the opposite of a "statist", then. What is that?
I try to be consistant. I am one who believes in the 18 enumerated powers outlined in the Constitution and the “negative” liberties outlined in the Bill of Rights.
Shut up Bob. This is a stupid game.
"Stupid" because it promotes the ideas the Founders held? Stupid is when an book or game is dismissed without reading or playing it.
looks like a night of fun. tried to buy one, but the website won't let me update the cart.
Sorry to hear it -- yesterday we had alot of folks on - one of our best sale days - not sure if that was what was going on.
I try to be consistant. I am one who believes in the 18 enumerated powers outlined in the Constitution and the “negative” liberties outlined in the Bill of Rights.
One of your categories is "In God We Trust".
Whose god?
orinjkrush
12-07-2012, 09:40 AM
Sorry to hear it -- yesterday we had alot of folks on - one of our best sale days - not sure if that was what was going on.
using chrome as my browser?
orinjkrush
12-07-2012, 09:42 AM
Sorry to hear it -- yesterday we had alot of folks on - one of our best sale days - not sure if that was what was going on.
doesn't work using chrome as my browser. works with IE.
Fedaykin
12-07-2012, 09:48 AM
doesn't work using chrome as my browser. works with IE.
Never a good sign. If you can't bothered to test common browsers, how can anyone expect you are properly protecting personal and financial information?
Never a good sign. If you can't bothered to test common browsers, how can anyone expect you are properly protecting personal and financial information?
We are using the Amazon platform for selling games - FYI. It was either Amazon or PayPal, as we wanted to use a platform people would be familiar with. Very few websites for family business have their web designers create their own system for buying and selling with credit cards - too much liability involved.
But I will have our web designer take a gander at the browser issue to see what is up with that...
Arkie
12-08-2012, 07:38 AM
You're the opposite of a "statist", then. What is that?
Individualist?
Requiem
12-08-2012, 07:43 AM
"Stupid" because it promotes the ideas the Founders held? Stupid is when an book or game is dismissed without reading or playing it.
It doesn't promote the ideas of the Founding Fathers. It promotes a skewed view of history in order to pitch off a very easily identifiable ideology/belief system that you have demonstrated in the years on this forum. Pack up your wolf tickets and stop advertising on the forum for sales.
Individualist?
Meaning what?
It doesn't promote the ideas of the Founding Fathers. It promotes a skewed view of history in order to pitch off a very easily identifiable ideology/belief system that you have demonstrated in the years on this forum. Pack up your wolf tickets and stop advertising on the forum for sales.
As you really now nothing about the Founding Fathers, their words, the Federalist Papers, the Constitution, The Articles of Confederation, and how special America is - not to mention the fact that you have never played the game - I don't respect your opinion on this issue. However, if you ever write a comic book titled "Marx & Me" I would be all ears as that is a topic you know something about.
Obushma
12-08-2012, 09:20 AM
It doesn't promote the ideas of the Founding Fathers. It promotes a skewed view of history in order to pitch off a very easily identifiable ideology/belief system that you have demonstrated in the years on this forum. Pack up your wolf tickets and stop advertising on the forum for sales.
You lil ****ing douchbag, you wouldn't know an ideal from the founders if it came up and bit your little Marxist ass. If anyone tries to rewrite history its usually your lil college dropout ass.
Seems like a nice game Bob.
Bob, does your game show America as being just for the white, straight, wealthy, male, and Protestant, or is it supposed to inform players that America is for all of us?
Requiem
12-08-2012, 11:32 AM
You lil ****ing douchbag, you wouldn't know an ideal from the founders if it came up and bit your little Marxist ass. If anyone tries to rewrite history its usually your lil college dropout ass.
Seems like a nice game Bob.
Never been a fan of Marxism, never will be.
When did I drop out of school?
You are just an irrational cynic.
As you really now nothing about the Founding Fathers, their words, the Federalist Papers, the Constitution, The Articles of Confederation, and how special America is - not to mention the fact that you have never played the game - I don't respect your opinion on this issue. However, if you ever write a comic book titled "Marx & Me" I would be all ears as that is a topic you know something about.
I don't have to play the game to have an understanding of American political history. One of my degrees obtained from higher education is strongly linked to that though. How about you?
Rohirrim
12-08-2012, 11:35 AM
You lil ****ing douchbag, you wouldn't know an ideal from the founders if it came up and bit your little Marxist ass. If anyone tries to rewrite history its usually your lil college dropout ass.
Seems like a nice game Bob.
Do you take steroids or something? Seems like every time you come on here, you're pegging the Ahole-O-Meter. ;D
Requiem
12-08-2012, 11:37 AM
Do you take steroids or something? Seems like every time you come on here, you're pegging the Ahole-O-Meter. ;D
He is obviously not a mentally stable individual.
You lil ****ing douchbag, you wouldn't know an ideal from the founders if it came up and bit your little Marxist ass. If anyone tries to rewrite history its usually your lil college dropout ass.
Seems like a nice game Bob.
Thanks!! But maybe I can make a new game for those who despise the principles upon which America was founded - I will call it Communoply and will only source Howard Zinn. The winner will be the player who is most effective at demonizing the rich and making everyone (except the chosen few of course) become equally poor. My only concern is that it might violate the copyrights certainly held by this administration.
Rohirrim
12-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Thanks!! But maybe I can make a new game for those who despise the principles upon which America was founded - I will call it Communoply and will only source Howard Zinn. The winner will be the player who is most effective at demonizing the rich and making everyone (except the chosen few of course) become equally poor. My only concern is that it might violate the copyrights certainly held by this administration.
I just hope you're not trying to make a living with comedy. Or boardgames, for that matter. Because if you were, it would put just another mouth on food stamps. ;D
Thanks!! But maybe I can make a new game for those who despise the principles upon which America was founded
Yeah, yeah - everyone who isn't a 'bagger or Christian is unAmerican.
Your "patriotism" is really ultranationalism. A few steps from fascism.
Obushma
12-08-2012, 12:50 PM
Yeah, yeah - everyone who isn't a 'bagger or Christian is unAmerican.
Your "patriotism" is really ultranationalism. A few steps from fascism.
Wigggsy, must be hard for you to talk w/ Obama's nuts dangling off one side of your chin while Bush's nuts swing on the other side. Quite the mouthful.
Arkie
12-08-2012, 06:44 PM
Thanks!! But maybe I can make a new game for those who despise the principles upon which America was founded - I will call it Communoply and will only source Howard Zinn. The winner will be the player who is most effective at demonizing the rich and making everyone (except the chosen few of course) become equally poor. My only concern is that it might violate the copyrights certainly held by this administration.
Kolejka is like the communist version of Monopoly. But your game looks much more fun. We the People teaches us about liberty, Monopoly teaches us about capitalism, and Kiolejka teaches us about planned economies.
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka
Bob, does your game show America as being just for the white, straight, wealthy, male, and Protestant, or is it supposed to inform players that America is for all of us?
No, but you can learn about Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Sitting Bull or the dozens of additional women and minorities that are well represented and honored in the game. You could also learn about Mary E. Bowser http://www.wethepeoplegame.com/wp-content/themes/default/example-portraits.htm - if you hadn't decided to dismiss something you have obviously not examined. (Not a very liberal value, by the way.) I hired an artist to create an image of Mary B - as the only photo of her is of such poor condition, one can barely make her out.
Yeah, yeah - everyone who isn't a 'bagger or Christian is unAmerican.
Your "patriotism" is really ultranationalism. A few steps from fascism.
Boy you have gotten lazy of late - if I was a few steps away from fascism I would be part of the national socialist movement - like the Nazis, and well, that would not fit well into my libertarian mindset. You want more state control - over people and institutions -- not me.
Kolejka is like the communist version of Monopoly. But your game looks much more fun. We the People teaches us about liberty, Monopoly teaches us about capitalism, and Kiolejka teaches us about planned economies.
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka
Thanks, bro...:peace:
Rohirrim
12-09-2012, 07:50 AM
Boy you have gotten lazy of late - if I was a few steps away from fascism I would be part of the national socialist movement - like the Nazis, and well, that would not fit well into my libertarian mindset. You want more state control - over people and institutions -- not me.
What's your opinion on Citizens United? Agree with Scalia? Or not?
Wigggsy, must be hard for you to talk w/ Obama's nuts dangling off one side of your chin while Bush's nuts swing on the other side. Quite the mouthful.
You're speaking from experience, we can all see.
Never been a fan of Marxism, never will be.
When did I drop out of school?
You are just an irrational cynic.
I don't have to play the game to have an understanding of American political history. One of my degrees obtained from higher education is strongly linked to that though. How about you?
I have a masters in rehabilitation counseling, a bachelors in English, a minor in history. I spend more time reading history from Pulitzer Prize winning authors, than I do blogging. I think with a few exceptions, left of center folks here would be okay, even pleasantly surprised with the history portion of the game - I admit to having a couple red-meat questions on my website, but I know my market. I am selling the game to small government inclined folks with religious inclinations. I am not selling the game to Berkley dropouts - that love Che and defecating of cop cars. Upon getting the game right of center folks will learn positive things about "left of center" folks like JFK, Rosa Parks, Jeannette Rankin, Helen Keller, Chester Arthur, Eldridge Clever, Martin Luther King Jr., Ida B. Wells-Barnett, Victoria Woodhull, and George Orwell - and that is from just some folks from one of five categories.
There were many times when I had to toss questions - that I wanted to be true but simply were not - as I dug deeper. I don't believe in Saul Alinsky's assertions that we have to demonize our political adversaries -to make them 100% on the side of the devil. I do believe that the Founders gave us something special (in terms of limited government) that we have gotten away from over the past 100 years. Do I mock Big Brother? Hell yes I do - as we are losing freedom under both parties.
What's your opinion on Citizens United? Agree with Scalia? Or not?
Do unions have free speech? Why not big business and small businesses as well?
I just hope you're not trying to make a living with comedy. Or boardgames, for that matter. Because if you were, it would put just another mouth on food stamps. ;D
Haa! But isn't that the goal?
cutthemdown
12-09-2012, 11:26 PM
you can have two people with masters degrees in history that still disagree on history. I'm not sure pulling a degree card really gets you much. I mean i have a degree in music but you don't see me telling you what bands to like lol!
you can have two people with masters degrees in history that still disagree on history. I'm not sure pulling a degree card really gets you much. I mean i have a degree in music but you don't see me telling you what bands to like lol!
Good point -- but he was playing the "you are uneducated" card as the racist and homophobic were getting stale... so I thought I would try logic.
cutthemdown
12-10-2012, 10:12 PM
Good point -- but he was playing the "you are uneducated" card as the racist and homophobic were getting stale... so I thought I would try logic.
Cmon they never get tired of the racism card. Thats like a get out of conservative land free card.
Cmon they never get tired of the racism card. Thats like a get out of conservative land free card.
The sad thing is -- it works 50% of the time in silencing or discrediting view in which they disagree - so it will continue.
Cmon they never get tired of the racism card. Thats like a get out of conservative land free card.
The sad thing is -- it works 50% of the time in silencing or discrediting views in which they disagree - so it will continue.
Requiem
12-11-2012, 10:50 AM
I have a masters in rehabilitation counseling, a bachelors in English, a minor in history. I spend more time reading history from Pulitzer Prize winning authors, than I do blogging.
Admirable.
I admit to having a couple red-meat questions on my website, but I know my market. I am selling the game to small government inclined folks with religious inclinations.
Obviously.
I am not selling the game to Berkley dropouts - that love Che and defecating of cop cars.
Nice generalization.
Upon getting the game right of center folks will learn positive things about "left of center" folks like JFK, Rosa Parks, Jeannette Rankin, Helen Keller, Chester Arthur, Eldridge Clever, Martin Luther King Jr., Ida B. Wells-Barnett, Victoria Woodhull, and George Orwell - and that is from just some folks from one of five categories.
What about Harriet Tubman?
Hell yes I do - as we are losing freedom under both parties.
Will we get it back if we buy your board game?
And no, I wasn't pulling any card, I was curious. The response I got pretty much affirmed to me that you are operating on a rather narrow or limited view of history in order to get results from a specific audience. I didn't expect you to have a very history rich background given the nature of the cards shown on the website.
What about Harriet Tubman?
Yes, she has a card and Sojourner Truth – and several other African American women – I didn’t intend for the post to be a complete list, again it was just a sampling from one of 5 categories. Tubman, along with Fredrick Douglass are also on the game board on the “Liberty Matters” spaces. Both of whom I think capture the essence of liberty and remind folks of our past breeches of our sacred trust.
Will we get it back if we buy your board game?
Nope - but as the Bill of Rights and principles of limited government are not being taught with much substance in the public school system - I guess this is my small contribution. I feel strong enough, and I am perhaps stupid enough, to invest a great deal of $ in the attempt to teach others what I believe to be correct principles. It is better to do something constructive than yell at the TV, complain - or argue with those who will not change their opinions online.
And no, I wasn't pulling any card, I was curious. The response I got pretty much affirmed to me that you are operating on a rather narrow or limited view of history in order to get results from a specific audience. I didn't expect you to have a very history rich background given the nature of the cards shown on the website.
When one has 500 history cards to play with - that is obviously limiting - but I think you are wrong on this point. I will admit that the game history is weighted toward the revolutionary war era, but that is intentional, as I think we need to get back to our roots in relation to understanding liberty. Also, as the game is titled We the People Fight Tyranny- one category (100 cards) address America’s foundational documents.
Requiem
12-11-2012, 05:40 PM
How much do you actually know about Sitting Bull?
How much do you actually know about Sitting Bull?
How much do you know about the difference between positive and negative liberties?
Arkie
12-12-2012, 09:42 AM
The country was founded on negative liberties governed by the rule of law not men. Over time, men have changed the law to favor themselves and their cronies. We are no longer governed by the rule of law that protected our inalienable rights. We are governed by men who changed the law.
Arkie
12-12-2012, 10:00 AM
...you are operating on a rather narrow or limited view of history in order to get results from a specific audience. I didn't expect you to have a very history rich background given the nature of the cards shown on the website.
The game isn't a substitute for public education, but it acts more as a supplement. Instead of a limited view, it's an expanded view. It's only natural that publicly funded schools will omit material that could be unfriendly to bigger government. Even with your history education, you might learn something from this game. It's probably more appealing to homeschoolers, but the students herded through the standardized public system would benefit from this game the most.
Requiem
12-12-2012, 11:19 AM
How much do you know about the difference between positive and negative liberties?
Been on a Berlin kick recently, Bob?
The game isn't a substitute for public education, but it acts more as a supplement. Instead of a limited view, it's an expanded view. It's only natural that publicly funded schools will omit material that could be unfriendly to bigger government. Even with your history education, you might learn something from this game. It's probably more appealing to homeschoolers, but the students herded through the standardized public system would benefit from this game the most.
I would never view a board game as supplemental learning material, nor take it seriously. I had the pleasure of sending the link to a few professors and teachers from high school who I got a majority of my civics teaching from and they all laughed at it. Quite frankly, why should anyone take a "history lesson" from a person who has already professed that they took about five or six courses as an undergraduate in it?
Sorry, not interseted in supporting a board game that is trivialized "intelligence" in pursuit of profit.
Sitting Bull honored by this game?
Sitting Bull would piss on this game.
It's only natural that publicly funded schools will omit material that could be unfriendly to bigger government.
Yeah, right. The usual inanity from anarchist-wanna-bes without the balls to 'fess up.
PS - An anarchist school is a contradiction.
The country was founded on negative liberties governed by the rule of law not men. Over time, men have changed the law to favor themselves and their cronies. We are no longer governed by the rule of law that protected our inalienable rights. We are governed by men who changed the law.
Very good...we have a winner! It really is surprising how few have learned this important distinction.
Been on a Berlin kick recently, Bob?
I would never view a board game as supplemental learning material, nor take it seriously. I had the pleasure of sending the link to a few professors and teachers from high school who I got a majority of my civics teaching from and they all laughed at it. Quite frankly, why should anyone take a "history lesson" from a person who has already professed that they took about five or six courses as an undergraduate in it?
Sorry, not interseted in supporting a board game that is trivialized "intelligence" in pursuit of profit.
Sitting Bull honored by this game?
Sitting Bull would piss on this game.
The fact that you dislike it is an endorsement - thanks! It would be even better if you played it and hated it. Oh, well I am sure that it is difficult to ask your mom for another $50 during this time of year.
Requiem
12-14-2012, 09:37 AM
The fact that you dislike it is an endorsement - thanks! It would be even better if you played it and hated it. Oh, well I am sure that it is difficult to ask your mom for another $50 during this time of year.
You are charging 50 bucks for that thing? :giggle:
The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me. Hilarious!
Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.
As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.
houghtam
12-14-2012, 09:58 AM
You are charging 50 bucks for that thing? :giggle:
The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me. Hilarious!
Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.
As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.
This is why I'm opposed to home schooling. Parents are parents, not teachers. Leave the teaching of history to those who know history, not to people who think they do.
Arkie
12-14-2012, 10:50 AM
Yeah, right. The usual inanity from anarchist-wanna-bes without the balls to 'fess up.
PS - An anarchist school is a contradiction.
Some people think strong state governments with a limited federal government is the same as anarchy.
Some people think strong state governments with a limited federal government is the same as anarchy.
We tried that already. It didn't work. Perhaps you can explain why, so you won't impose the same mistake again.
Rohirrim
12-14-2012, 12:24 PM
You are charging 50 bucks for that thing? :giggle:
The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me. Hilarious!
Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.
As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.
But his ideology is pure. That's got to stand for something?
This is why I'm opposed to home schooling. Parents are parents, not teachers. Leave the teaching of history to those who know history, not to people who think they do.
I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well? You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.
You are charging 50 bucks for that thing? :giggle:
The fact that you brought family into the matter shows how much of a petty bastard you are. Par for the course for the middle-aged people on the forum who seem to be obsessed with what I do for a living, my health and who/what my parents are and what the do for me. Hilarious!
Recently I made a much better investment. Federalist Papers, Founding Father Documents, Major Works of Philosophy and Liberal Arts (Aquinas, Kant, Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Freud, etc.) -- a perfect set [none missing] in encyclopedia-esque books for a couple bucks at the local Salvation Army. Will post a picture of the books on one of my shelves when time permits. More history and knowledge to get from those for pennies on the dollar in comparison to what you are offering, which is essentially a wolf ticket.
As I have said before, I'm not interested in buying a board game from a guy who has about 15-18 credits of undergraduate coursework in history. That pretty much means you know dick about it. Historical revisionism at its finest.
Now, if you read those documents rather than admiring how pretty the Federalist Papers, and Founding documents look on your mother's shelf, perhaps you will come to respect our nation's heritage and history - and just maybe we will have something to talk about. May I suggest you memorize some of Howard Zinn's works, the self-loathing WWII bomber, turned propagandist - I think you may find much in common with him. :curtsey:
Rohirrim
12-15-2012, 07:45 PM
I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well? You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.
And Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Washington, etc etc etc as well. :rofl:
When it comes to discovering what the opinion of the founding fathers was on the value of public education, it rapidly becomes clear that they considered it essential to the survival of the democratic form of government – or to be more precise, our democratic republic form of government. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both weighed in on the side of full support for educating the masses. Others who lived in the same era who also pushed for public education were Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, and Benjamin Rush.
While Thomas Jefferson tried and failed to convince the Virginia legislature to set up a system of public schools – proposing a generous full scholarship to the College of William and Mary for one child from the district every two years – he was vehement that education was essential to the survival of the American experiment. Yet it remained for Horace Mann to institute the first public schools in the nation in the state of Massachusetts, a mere sixty years later.
http://minnieapolis.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/11/7717017-founding-fathers-on-the-importance-of-public-education
Fedaykin
12-15-2012, 10:06 PM
I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well?
The reason home school kids do better on average on standardized tests has nothing to do with where they happen to be schooled, it has to do with having parents that care and are involved in their children's education.
Parental involvement in children's education is the #1 indicator of future success. The problem with public schools isn't the schools, it's the parents that treat it like a daycare.
You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.
Gotta love the guilt by association ad hominem. My favorite.
And Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Washington, etc etc etc as well. :rofl:
When it comes to discovering what the opinion of the founding fathers was on the value of public education, it rapidly becomes clear that they considered it essential to the survival of the democratic form of government – or to be more precise, our democratic republic form of government. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both weighed in on the side of full support for educating the masses. Others who lived in the same era who also pushed for public education were Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, and Benjamin Rush.
While Thomas Jefferson tried and failed to convince the Virginia legislature to set up a system of public schools – proposing a generous full scholarship to the College of William and Mary for one child from the district every two years – he was vehement that education was essential to the survival of the American experiment. Yet it remained for Horace Mann to institute the first public schools in the nation in the state of Massachusetts, a mere sixty years later.
http://minnieapolis.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/11/7717017-founding-fathers-on-the-importance-of-public-education
You are correct that that the Founders saw a place for public education, Jefferson was perhaps America’s foremost proponent. However, I assert that the state’s role does not supplant the role of the parent, as it does in some many state-centered governments.
Thought I would share a couple quotes from Noah Webster (now that I know you are such a fan of him) who said: “The ecclesiastical establishments of Europe, which serve to support tyrannical governments, are not the Christian religion, but abuses and corruptions of it. The religion of Christ and his apostles, in it primitive simplicity and purity, unencumbered with the trappings of power and the pomp of ceremonies, is the surest basis of a republican government.”
Or ...“Nothing has a greater tendency to lessen the reverence which mankind ought to have for the Supreme Being, than a careless repetition of his name upon every trifling occasion . . . . To prevent this profanation, such passages are selected from scripture, as contain some important precepts of morality and religion, in which that sacred name is seldom mentioned. Let sacred things be appropriated to sacred purposes.”
You don't honor limited government, based on your past words you advocate for "positive liberty" therefore you do not honor the Founding Fathers or the traditions we have inherited. Your reading of them I suspect, is done for many of the same reasons that other statists have read about the Founders - not to implement freedom or to advance their concepts, but to find ways to subvert freedom. You are a waste of time, and it seems that you only serve to waste others time.
Rohirrim
12-16-2012, 03:27 AM
You are correct that that the Founders saw a place for public education, Jefferson was perhaps America’s foremost proponent. However, I assert that the state’s role does not supplant the role of the parent, as it does in some many state-centered governments.
Thought I would share a couple quotes from Noah Webster (now that I know you are such a fan of him) who said: “The ecclesiastical establishments of Europe, which serve to support tyrannical governments, are not the Christian religion, but abuses and corruptions of it. The religion of Christ and his apostles, in it primitive simplicity and purity, unencumbered with the trappings of power and the pomp of ceremonies, is the surest basis of a republican government.”
Or ...“Nothing has a greater tendency to lessen the reverence which mankind ought to have for the Supreme Being, than a careless repetition of his name upon every trifling occasion . . . . To prevent this profanation, such passages are selected from scripture, as contain some important precepts of morality and religion, in which that sacred name is seldom mentioned. Let sacred things be appropriated to sacred purposes.”
You don't honor limited government, based on your past words you advocate for "positive liberty" therefore you do not honor the Founding Fathers or the traditions we have inherited. Your reading of them I suspect, is done for many of the same reasons that other statists have read about the Founders - not to implement freedom or to advance their concepts, but to find ways to subvert freedom. You are a waste of time, and it seems that you only serve to waste others time.
And you're an ideologue so you simply cherry pick the arguments that support your accepted view of history and ignore everything else. That's what ideologues do. Especially those with a strong fundamentalist bent, such as yourself. It's the exact opposite of the Socratic examined life. It's like the blinkered donkey tied to the grinding wheel going around and around and around, no doubt muttering to himself how proud he is to have everything figured out.
houghtam
12-16-2012, 08:03 AM
I do not home school my children, and although I was not home schooled, home school children (on average) do better on standardized testing than those in the public school system. Parents are not teachers - I am assuming we should leave that to the state - because they are doing so well? You are in good company: Hitler, Stalin, and Chavez would all agree with you.
I wonder if class size relates at all. I wonder if it's easier to keep the attention of 1 or 2 or even 5 kids than a classroom of 40, 50, or more. Nah, probably not.
I wonder if class size relates at all. I wonder if it's easier to keep the attention of 1 or 2 or even 5 kids than a classroom of 40, 50, or more. Nah, probably not.
You make a good point, but it still does not erase the fact home school kids are scoring higher than state educated children.
Mr.Meanie
12-18-2012, 08:12 AM
First off, I'm as entrepreneurial as they come and I applaud any creative venture like this and I wish you all the best in it. I was genuinely curious about the game, however after looking at some of the cards like this:
http://www.wethepeoplegame.com/wp-content/themes/default/images/socialjustice1.jpg
http://www.wethepeoplegame.com/wp-content/themes/default/images/socialjustice4.jpg
Come on now... that looks like something taken straight from the Glenn Beck, free republic, or Red state's playbook (i.e. sleazy right wing fear-based propaganda). I would never purposefully let my kids learn "history" from that kind of crap. Sorry.
I'm sure you will sell a lot of those along side the Gold line and Lifelock ads on the radio and by running ads on certain websites though. Best of luck to you in your venture.