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prunch
12-04-2012, 04:28 PM
RB Correll Buckhalter
WR Brandon Stokley
OT Ryan Clady
C Dan Koppen
DL Justin Bannan
DL Ty Warren
CB Tracy Porter

Looks like Clady is the only one of major concern or cost. All others will be dropped or cheaply resigned. I think we lose Buckhalter (duh), Warren and Porter. We resign the rest to short deals with Clady getting a monster contract.

For a list of who else might be on the market: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=By+Team&y=2013

That One Guy
12-04-2012, 04:29 PM
Buckhalter? He's on the roster?

UberBroncoMan
12-04-2012, 04:29 PM
Buckhalter? He's on the roster?

No, lol.

TheReverend
12-04-2012, 04:31 PM
I think Clady's the only one kept... potentially Koppen.

We'll have to look at new deals for surprise players that have earned bigger paydays like Woodyard, Harris, Carter, etc

The Joker
12-04-2012, 04:33 PM
Correll Buckhalter?!

Clady gets resigned... Stokely if he wants to stick around another year.

Porter is probably gone with Harris and Carter emerging as they have this year.

Find it hard to care too much right now though. We're in a Superbowl hunt right now, the offseason can wait!

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-04-2012, 04:36 PM
Find it hard to care too much right now though. We're in a Superbowl hunt right now, the offseason can wait!

This. Teams that suck are talking about this stuff cause their seasons are done. Good thought at looking forward but it's time for a 2nd seed run

Chris
12-04-2012, 04:40 PM
Feels nice to not care at this point!

TheReverend
12-04-2012, 04:40 PM
This. Teams that suck are talking about this stuff cause their seasons are done. Good thought at looking forward but it's time for a 2nd seed run

...Clearly if us fans take our eyes off seeding over the next few weeks to discuss something that isn't redundant as ****, the team will blow it's opportunity.

HooptyHoops
12-04-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm actually interested in free agent RB's and ILB's. Any ideas on who will be available?

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-04-2012, 04:58 PM
...Clearly if us fans take our eyes off seeding over the next few weeks to discuss something that isn't redundant as ****, the team will blow it's opportunity.

Well, ya.

schaaf
12-04-2012, 05:00 PM
So, is it safe to assume that there was something to the rumor that Porter was disgruntled about something???

TheReverend
12-04-2012, 05:03 PM
I'm actually interested in free agent RB's and ILB's. Any ideas on who will be available?

Erin Henderson would be interesting to kick the tires on, but I'd guess Minnesota extends/resigns him.

Reggie Bush would probably be an ideal back for a Manning offense if his value has depreciated enough over the years to be reasonably priced. I think Felix Jones would be similarly interesting in the same regard.

TheReverend
12-04-2012, 05:06 PM
My favorite potential target is Henry Melton from Chicago.

If he hits the market, I think we should back the brinks truck up to his doorstep with Peyton in the drivers seat and Elway riding shotgun.

mkporter
12-04-2012, 05:16 PM
My favorite potential target is Henry Melton from Chicago.

If he hits the market, I think we should back the brinks truck up to his doorstep with Peyton in the drivers seat and Elway riding shotgun.

Looks a little long in the tooth...

http://www.henrymelton.com/0/Home.html

Jolly though......

The Joker
12-04-2012, 05:22 PM
My favorite potential target is Henry Melton from Chicago.

If he hits the market, I think we should back the brinks truck up to his doorstep with Peyton in the drivers seat and Elway riding shotgun.

Fox and Del Rio on the roof waving cowboy hats in the air shouting "Yee-haw"

BroncoMan4ever
12-04-2012, 05:28 PM
This. Teams that suck are talking about this stuff cause their seasons are done. Good thought at looking forward but it's time for a 2nd seed run

Exactly. Middle of february I will begin to care about this fully.

That One Guy
12-04-2012, 05:32 PM
My favorite potential target is Henry Melton from Chicago.

If he hits the market, I think we should back the brinks truck up to his doorstep with Peyton in the drivers seat and Elway riding shotgun.

I think this is the guy I hadn't even heard of two weeks ago. King of embrassing considering how much time I waste on football...

In other news, has anyone kept up with whoever that Balt. backup MLB from last offseason or the one before? Has he gone on to do anything? I think by the time he signed, everyone on the site had been convinced he was the key to the SB but the front office dropped the ball. I don't think I've heard anything since he signed.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-04-2012, 05:44 PM
I think this is the guy I hadn't even heard of two weeks ago. King of embrassing considering how much time I waste on football...

In other news, has anyone kept up with whoever that Balt. backup MLB from last offseason or the one before? Has he gone on to do anything? I think by the time he signed, everyone on the site had been convinced he was the key to the SB but the front office dropped the ball. I don't think I've heard anything since he signed.

Jameel McClain? 71 tackles 0 sacks 0 FF 0 ints.

gyldenlove
12-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Missing from the list:

Matt Willis, David Bruton, Keith Brooking, Jim Leonhard, CJ Davis and Sealver Siliga.

RFAs: Lance Ball, Tony Carter, Chris Clark, Britton Colquitt, Chris Gronkowski, Mitch Unrein and Kevin Vickerson.

DJ Williams supposedly redid his deal when he came back from suspension, but no details have been released and he may become a free agent as well - it is not known currently.

lonestar
12-04-2012, 06:26 PM
I think Clady's the only one kept... potentially Koppen.

We'll have to look at new deals for surprise players that have earned bigger paydays like Woodyard, Harris, Carter, etc

Frankly not sure we can afford Clady, unless he gives is a super bowl ring discount.

The worst case is he is franchised while we train a newbie OLT.

The position is not the hot spot money wise it used to be. With the advent of hot reads and 3 step drops few DEs can get back there fast enough to cause issues.

For that matter he has allowed quite a few hurries over the past few games.

That One Guy
12-04-2012, 06:37 PM
Frankly not sure we can afford Clady, unless he gives is a super bowl ring discount.

The worst case is he is franchised while we train a newbie OLT.

The position is not the hot spot money wise it used to be. With the advent of hot reads and 3 step drops few DEs can get back there fast enough to cause issues.

For that matter he has allowed quite a few hurries over the past few games.

I'm sure Chicago would be willing to take him off our hands.

Considering the other options on the roster, I think I'd rather just lock him up and move forward. Even if there's some slight overpayment, a position that you can check off and forget about is more important than trying to finagle.

That One Guy
12-04-2012, 06:38 PM
Jameel McClain? 71 tackles 0 sacks 0 FF 0 ints.

Yeah, that guy. He was supposed to be the man. I haven't heard much about him.

Broncoman13
12-04-2012, 06:46 PM
Frankly not sure we can afford Clady, unless he gives is a super bowl ring discount.

The worst case is he is franchised while we train a newbie OLT.

The position is not the hot spot money wise it used to be. With the advent of hot reads and 3 step drops few DEs can get back there fast enough to cause issues.

For that matter he has allowed quite a few hurries over the past few games.

Manning has time to go deep bc of Clady. He is as valuable on offense as anyone other than Manning. Probably the third most valuable player on the team!

RhymesayersDU
12-04-2012, 06:50 PM
Frankly not sure we can afford Clady, unless he gives is a super bowl ring discount.

The worst case is he is franchised while we train a newbie OLT.

The position is not the hot spot money wise it used to be. With the advent of hot reads and 3 step drops few DEs can get back there fast enough to cause issues.

For that matter he has allowed quite a few hurries over the past few games.

Dumbest thing ever? Dumbest thing ever.

DBroncos4life
12-04-2012, 06:54 PM
Anyone that thinks we should let Clady walk is not only a troll but, a ****ing retarded one at that.

g6matty
12-04-2012, 06:55 PM
Danny amendola plz :)

@ rhyme sayer that's y I have him on ignore. I'm almost enticed to unblock him just to tell him how retarded he is

fwf
12-04-2012, 07:13 PM
I'm pretty sure we'll grab DeAngelo Williams after the Panthers cut him. WR and TE will likely be addressed with our early picks. The cash will be there if we wanted to sign a DB like Grimes or William Moore. Another Falcon Michael Turner should be available too if DeAngelo get snagged by someone else

Clady will probably get the Franchise tag

One thing we do know is Elway wont be looking too far into the future. It should be win now even if we have to do some Redskins-esque accounting and load up for a 2 year run.

That is all

lonestar
12-04-2012, 07:17 PM
Missing from the list:

Matt Willis, David Bruton, Keith Brooking, Jim Leonhard, CJ Davis and Sealver Siliga.

RFAs: Lance Ball, Tony Carter, Chris Clark, Britton Colquitt, Chris Gronkowski, Mitch Unrein and Kevin Vickerson.

DJ Williams supposedly redid his deal when he came back from suspension, but no details have been released and he may become a free agent as well - it is not known currently.

IIRC DJ just did this years contract with next years being the same as it was.

IMO he is gone unless he drastically takes another cut for Next year.

His whooping 6 tackles in three games will not justify almost $8 million.

lonestar
12-04-2012, 07:21 PM
I'm sure Chicago would be willing to take him off our hands.

Considering the other options on the roster, I think I'd rather just lock him up and move forward. Even if there's some slight overpayment, a position that you can check off and forget about is more important than trying to finagle.

The OLT spot is not worth $10,000,000.00+ a year anymore.

I also think that manning has risen his boat higher than he has the others on the OL.

I'd rather spend that 75 million he will get over 2 or 3 other OL guys.

lonestar
12-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Anyone that thinks we should let Clady walk is not only a troll but, a ****ing retarded one at that.

RIF


Frankly not sure we can afford Clady, unless he gives is a super bowl ring discount.

The worst case is he is franchised while we train a newbie OLT.

The position is not the hot spot money wise it used to be. With the advent of hot reads and 3 step drops few DEs can get back there fast enough to cause issues.

For that matter he has allowed quite a few hurries over the past few games.


Just when are y'all gonna learn to read and understand.

Where are you going to the money for him??

Manning is getting 100 mil, doom gets 9mil a year, just those two are costing your almost 30% of your cap value. Where are yoi going to get the miney forthe other 50 players. We also have to worry about locking Miller down very soon, have DT and Deckker coming up next year..

Obviously y'all are not business owners or never have done budget. Money does not grow in trees.

If you do sign him to the contract he will want it will cripple us from getting other UFA.

24champ
12-04-2012, 07:39 PM
IIRC DJ just did this years contract with next years being the same as it was.

IMO he is gone unless he drastically takes another cut for Next year.

His whooping 6 tackles in three games will not justify almost $8 million.

DJ is not getting almost 8 million this season, buy a clue.

Agamemnon
12-04-2012, 07:39 PM
Frankly not sure we can afford Clady, unless he gives is a super bowl ring discount.

The worst case is he is franchised while we train a newbie OLT.

The position is not the hot spot money wise it used to be. With the advent of hot reads and 3 step drops few DEs can get back there fast enough to cause issues.

For that matter he has allowed quite a few hurries over the past few games.

Hilarious!

g6matty
12-04-2012, 07:49 PM
Simple fix. Cut manning sign clady

Bigdawg26
12-04-2012, 07:58 PM
RB Correll Buckhalter
WR Brandon Stokley
OT Ryan Clady
C Dan Koppen
DL Justin Bannan
DL Ty Warren
CB Tracy Porter

Looks like Clady is the only one of major concern or cost. All others will be dropped or cheaply resigned. I think we lose Buckhalter (duh), Warren and Porter. We resign the rest to short deals with Clady getting a monster contract.

For a list of who else might be on the market: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=By+Team&y=2013

Resign Koppen and Clady are a must. Bannan and Stokley (an almost must) would be nice too but we can get younger. I would like to see Methwolfe take over for Bannan next to Big Vick. We need to sign/draft a MLB, D-line (more depth never hurts), and another RB.

gunns
12-04-2012, 08:03 PM
I'm pretty sure we'll grab DeAngelo Williams after the Panthers cut him. WR and TE will likely be addressed with our early picks. The cash will be there if we wanted to sign a DB like Grimes or William Moore. Another Falcon Michael Turner should be available too if DeAngelo get snagged by someone else

Clady will probably get the Franchise tag

One thing we do know is Elway wont be looking too far into the future. It should be win now even if we have to do some Redskins-esque accounting and load up for a 2 year run.

That is all

Well, looks like my prayers will go to another team snagging Williams. I'd rather get Woodhead or Scott, almost anyone but Williams.

I'm hoping for Amendola and I never want WR's but I really like him. Mike Wallace will be available too. And safeties are looking good....Dashon Gold, Louis Delmas, Williams Moore, Jarius Byrd. Let's grab at least one hopefully. None of the MLB look particularly appealing.

Bmore Manning
12-04-2012, 08:28 PM
I loved Erin Henderson at Will..and mentioned him on here. But with Woodyard, Trevathan and DJ that's far too crowded. He could potentially play Mike.. I don't think he has the size strength to shed blocks...

Larry Grant from the 49ers..

Branch DT- Seattle wants to retain Jones so he could play strong side and kick big Red inside.. Branch would be a nice proven DT. He and Big Vick would be a good combo.

Austin Collie- Slot WR, what better option than a good player (when healthy) who has had success with Peyton already. His
Concussions will make him affordable!

There will be a plathora of RBs.. I really really like Steven Jackson here...It delays drafting one, and brings a SB hungry über talented RB to really improve this team.

All these guys are realistic price tags, a slight splurge on SJax, but they would address position of need and allow a very flexible draft!

lonestar
12-04-2012, 08:42 PM
DJ is not getting almost 8 million this season, buy a clue.

RIF

I said his 6 tackles WILL NOT justify his almost 8 million..

That he will make next year. If you read any of my posts I made it clear he took a huge reduction in salary for the remaining games after he came back IN FACT to remain he had to.

Crushaholic
12-04-2012, 08:44 PM
Koppen also needs to be re-signed. He's the best center we've had, in a LONG time...

g6matty
12-04-2012, 08:49 PM
Fun fact: koppen and Matt Millen graduated from my high school

orange crusher
12-04-2012, 09:03 PM
From that list, Buchalter is a keeper. :-)

24champ
12-04-2012, 09:04 PM
RIF

I said his 6 tackles WILL NOT justify his almost 8 million..

That he will make next year. If you read any of my posts I made it clear he took a huge reduction in salary for the remaining games after he came back IN FACT to remain he had to.

If you actually watch the games, he did more than just six tackles. He does very well in coverage and had several key pass deflections. However, if you are going to uses tackles as a barometer for justifying contracts...well DJ's contract is a bargain then, seeing that he has led the team in tackles more than a few times in his career as a Bronco. Not really worried about whether DJ comes back or not, he'll be back. He's in the best shape of his life and has played all three positions and that's a valuable tool to have.

IA-Broncosfan53
12-04-2012, 09:15 PM
Make Colquitt a top 5 paid punter, franchise if need be. DO NOT franchise Clady. I don't think he is the same guy we once thought. Just 2 weeks ago Hali abused him. Go watch the film. I do not want to pay what market will be for Clady. There will be other options available, draft one in the first round if needed. Elway seems to be able to evaluate offensive line talent, just saying.

Re-sign Koppen to 3 year deal, slightly over market if we have to. Dude is playing out of his mind. Best center since Nalen 2000-2003 era for Broncos.

Re-sign Vickerson to 2 year, nothing over market. Is good, but we can improve with the right draft pick. Plenty of free agents here, so the value SHOULD be good for resigning defensive tackles.

Re-sign Mitch Unrein 1-2 year deal. See above reasoning, should get great value to address our obvious wide receiver needs.

Re-sign Bruton, 3 year deal heavy on incentive/roster bonuses. That way if we cut him, won't hurt vs cap. He is a big part of out special teams. He makes the calls on punts, and we all know his tremendous coverage ability. Decent depth at safety to boot, however I'm guessing he will get a better deal from a more desperate team.

Doesnt it feel good not to be a desperate team come free agency for once? Having depth feels so good!

Everyone else can walk (especially Ball. he must have black mail on Studes??). We already overpaid for Elvis, we CAN NOT afford to overpay for Clady. Think long-term guys. Von Miller is going to need an extension, maybe as soon as next year since he was the first class of the new CBA. HE IS WAY more important to this team and playing at a level that is far above that of Clady.

broncosteven
12-04-2012, 09:37 PM
Dumbest thing ever? Dumbest thing ever.

Pretty close to dumbest thing ever posted on the mange. No wonder they fired Lonestar and then banned his account!

lonestar
12-04-2012, 10:43 PM
If you actually watch the games, he did more than just six tackles. He does very well in coverage and had several key pass deflections. However, if you are going to uses tackles as a barometer for justifying contracts...well DJ's contract is a bargain then, seeing that he has led the team in tackles more than a few times in his career as a Bronco. Not really worried about whether DJ comes back or not, he'll be back. He's in the best shape of his life and has played all three positions and that's a valuable tool to have.

Yeah yeah he led the team in tackles. Translated he was the leader of a crappy team.

Yet last year WW had more (read better) stats than dumb ass did in six less starts and he is playing lights out this year once dumb ass was benched.
With 100 tackles , 4 sacks, 5 passes defensed, 3 picks, 1forced fumble , 1 fumble recovery All for a hell of a lot less money than dumb ass makes.

Which means he will be the starter next year and due for a bump in pay even though he signed an new comract last year.

Yes dumb ass played 3 spots at LB but hated SAM, was not great at Mike because he was to dumb to make the defensive calls. So while he played them the only one that is left is WLB. And that aint happening. Not for $7,700,000.00 next year.

And yes he is a TOOL.

lonestar
12-04-2012, 10:59 PM
Pretty close to dumbest thing ever posted on the mange. No wonder they fired Lonestar and then banned his account!

The truth be told was they decided to take the forum in a direction that was different than when we set it up when we started it. Yes I was banned but then that was a foregone conclusion once I was no longer a mod. Frankly when I forced that action, I had a clear conscience because I had no intention of going back.

Now unlike dream the weasel that bad mouths me all the time, he was banned at least 5 times and usually I was the guy that had the privilege of doing it. Wonder at all why he hates me?

I suspect he has crawled back more than once there and begged to be reinstated. I have not and have no intention of doing so. The place is not the forum I want to be on. I Also have to wonder how many other accounts he tried there.

To clear other things up he was a weasel on mania when I first visited there in in 2003. Has not changed and has been on my ignore list from the minute I was no longer a mod and still is.


So believe what you want, I could care less.

I tell it like it is or how I see it. Always have and always will like it or not I could care less. I sleep very well at night.

Speaking of which night night

lonestar
12-04-2012, 11:02 PM
Make Colquitt a top 5 paid punter, franchise if need be. DO NOT franchise Clady. I don't think he is the same guy we once thought. Just 2 weeks ago Hali abused him. Go watch the film. I do not want to pay what market will be for Clady. There will be other options available, draft one in the first round if needed. Elway seems to be able to evaluate offensive line talent, just saying.

Re-sign Koppen to 3 year deal, slightly over market if we have to. Dude is playing out of his mind. Best center since Nalen 2000-2003 era for Broncos.

Re-sign Vickerson to 2 year, nothing over market. Is good, but we can improve with the right draft pick. Plenty of free agents here, so the value SHOULD be good for resigning defensive tackles.

Re-sign Mitch Unrein 1-2 year deal. See above reasoning, should get great value to address our obvious wide receiver needs.

Re-sign Bruton, 3 year deal heavy on incentive/roster bonuses. That way if we cut him, won't hurt vs cap. He is a big part of out special teams. He makes the calls on punts, and we all know his tremendous coverage ability. Decent depth at safety to boot, however I'm guessing he will get a better deal from a more desperate team.

Doesnt it feel good not to be a desperate team come free agency for once? Having depth feels so good!

Everyone else can walk (especially Ball. he must have black mail on Studes??). We already overpaid for Elvis, we CAN NOT afford to overpay for Clady. Think long-term guys. Von Miller is going to need an extension, maybe as soon as next year since he was the first class of the new CBA. HE IS WAY more important to this team and playing at a level that is far above that of Clady.

:thumbs: best LOGICAL post in the thread

I also suggest y'all look at Clady. He is not the rookie everyone fondly remembers.
he is good but not top five money

Mogulseeker
12-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Dammit, we need to make sure we resign Buckhalter. We're thin at RB.

broncocalijohn
12-04-2012, 11:36 PM
Feels nice to not care at this point!

Only one that has been talked before the season was Clady and he is now earning a nice raise. As for the offseason, glad I can just be a fan and let the FO worry about it.

Atwater His Ass
12-04-2012, 11:54 PM
LT is a premium position. Doesn't make sense to let Clady go and hope we can draft a replacement. Gonna have to pay him, he definately made the right move in the pre-season by not signing.

swaiy
12-05-2012, 12:17 AM
Thank God some of you assholes dont run the team.

swaiy
12-05-2012, 12:24 AM
I'm pretty sure we'll grab DeAngelo Williams after the Panthers cut him. WR and TE will likely be addressed with our early picks. The cash will be there if we wanted to sign a DB like Grimes or William Moore. Another Falcon Michael Turner should be available too if DeAngelo get snagged by someone else

Clady will probably get the Franchise tag

One thing we do know is Elway wont be looking too far into the future. It should be win now even if we have to do some Redskins-esque accounting and load up for a 2 year run.

That is all

Why would they spend picks on TE when they just signed 2 Tamme and Dreesen? Also, Turner is getting old. Might as well stick with McGahee.

Archer81
12-05-2012, 12:28 AM
I'm sure its been said already...but Denver is in the middle of a hunt for the 2 seed. Something that has not happened around here in a long time. I wont even think about free agency until after the SB and I have a week to work off the hangover.


:Broncos:

Dexter
12-05-2012, 12:45 AM
No thanks on Michael Turner. If MJD or Steven Jackson can be had for a 3rd or lower I wouldn't be opposed to either of those pickups. I get the feeling that McGahee is going to be gone next year. Knowshon is also going to have to show consistent improvement for the rest of the year to make it another year with us.

Steven Jackson - Ronnie Hillman - Ball/Moreno/low draft pick RB

or

MJD - Ronnie Hillman - Ball/Moreno/low draft pick RB

This is what I'm hoping for, unless MJD or Jackson are going to break the bank contract & draft pick wise.

24champ
12-05-2012, 01:24 AM
Lonelystar the GM would let Clady go and give Wesley Woodyard a bump in pay even though he recently signed an extension...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4CNVYFbRSRw/T7P5M8gH25I/AAAAAAAABNA/zNmXXM3DUJY/s1600/cheryl-cole.gif

ol#7
12-05-2012, 04:04 AM
Thank God that a-hole Lonestar doesn't run the team.

Fixed it for you!

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 04:45 AM
RB Correll Buckhalter
WR Brandon Stokley
OT Ryan Clady
C Dan Koppen
DL Justin Bannan
DL Ty Warren
CB Tracy Porter

Looks like Clady is the only one of major concern or cost. All others will be dropped or cheaply resigned. I think we lose Buckhalter (duh), Warren and Porter. We resign the rest to short deals with Clady getting a monster contract.

For a list of who else might be on the market: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=By+Team&y=2013

Warren, Porter gone, there is no reason why Denver cannot sign the rest of them

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 04:50 AM
Why would they spend picks on TE when they just signed 2 Tamme and Dreesen? Also, Turner is getting old. Might as well stick with McGahee.

I could see them spending an early pick on a TE. Tamme and Dreesen are not down field threats and they have dropped a few passes too. I am not down on them by any means they are good weapons for the team but I think Denver will draft a slot or TE early. They need a little more explosiveness on offense. The only true threat is DT.

2KBack
12-05-2012, 05:03 AM
I could see them spending an early pick on a TE. Tamme and Dreesen are not down field threats and they have dropped a few passes too. I am not down on them by any means they are good weapons for the team but I think Denver will draft a slot or TE early. They need a little more explosiveness on offense. The only true threat is DT.

Don't we lead the league in plays of more than 20 yards? That can't all be DT.

fwf
12-05-2012, 05:09 AM
LT is a premium position. Doesn't make sense to let Clady go and hope we can draft a replacement. Gonna have to pay him, he definately made the right move in the pre-season by not signing.

Yeah sign him but Elway needs to make sure his cap # doesn't kill us in 13 and 14. And Bowlan needs to open his wallet and pay a hefty bonus for some of these guys. Cash from an extra 2 games at home this season could help his decision. The point is, yeah Brock might be the future but if any team could justify leveraging its future for a 2-3 yr run, it us

socalorado
12-05-2012, 05:52 AM
From my awesome mock draft. And since i know you will all want to go and re-visit the awesomeness, heres the link. (Also, Harris will get restructured as a RFA. Woodyyard already did. )
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=109063

RESIGNED
KOPPEN
BRUTON
COLQUITT
CLADY
T.CARTER
VICKERSON


FA
Danny Amendola WR - (STL)
DEN will need to simply out match any offer that STL throws at Amendola, but DEN also has the SB factor working for them, and with Manning making a couple well timed phone calls, Manning to Amendola is not that far fetched.
As a matter of fact, the enticment of catching balls from Manning and going to Super Bowls is enough alone to get Amendola into a Bronco's uni. But yeah, it's gonna cost DEN some coin. Who cares!?!? Manning has his slot reciever extraordinaire and DEN's offense with a rookie RB ( See Draft) is a juggernaut that no other team can stop.
Alternate- Josh Cribbs (CLE) WR

Brandon Moore OG- (NYJ)
I know what your thinking. The Jets suck. Yeah, they do, and after watching Sanchez run straight into Moore's ass, that basically sums up their season. However, Moore has been a consistent standout on the offensive line at RG
for years, and is still playing really well in his 10th season.
DEN needs some quality depth on its line, and they need it now. With Manning running the show, DEN just cannot afford to have injury issues mid-season, and having Moore start at RG is a huge upgrade, and gives DEN much needed depth. Moore is also a leader and a veteran. Plus hes versatile. Moore can play multiple positions along the O-line, making him worth every penny. I would love to sign Andy Levitre (BUF) and move him to RG, but i dont think BUF lets him walk, and he will command monster $$$$ on the open FA market. Just too expensive. Moore is looking after 10 years to win a SB, and after the mess the Jets have become , i have no doubt that Manning
could entice him to come and play for a mid-sized contract, and finish out his career as a Bronco.
Alternate- Andre Smith (CIN) - OT

Sammie Lee Hill DT - (DET)
As fast and disruptive as DEN's interior defensive line is, they still need a big body to stop the run on 1st and 2nd down, and create more 3 and outs for opposing offense's. Hill is a talented run stuffer at the point of attack, and for as much hype as the rest of the Lions D-line players get, Hill is a stand-out in his own right. Tendered at a 4th rounder last year, i thought DEN should have jumped on him, however now hes completely free of any contract squabbles, and DET will be hard pressed to re-sign another D-line player with all the $$$ they already have thrown at that position. Hill brings bulk,
and size to the D-line, but also allows JDR to use multiple fronts and formations with other D-line players. Like Moore, Hill will be looking for a mid-sized contract with a winner, so he wont break the bank either.
Alternate - Sedrick Ellis (NO)

ScottXray
12-05-2012, 06:17 AM
Make Colquitt a top 5 paid punter, franchise if need be. DO NOT franchise Clady. I don't think he is the same guy we once thought. Just 2 weeks ago Hali abused him. Go watch the film. I do not want to pay what market will be for Clady. There will be other options available, draft one in the first round if needed. Elway seems to be able to evaluate offensive line talent, just saying.

Re-sign Koppen to 3 year deal, slightly over market if we have to. Dude is playing out of his mind. Best center since Nalen 2000-2003 era for Broncos.

Re-sign Vickerson to 2 year, nothing over market. Is good, but we can improve with the right draft pick. Plenty of free agents here, so the value SHOULD be good for resigning defensive tackles.

Re-sign Mitch Unrein 1-2 year deal. See above reasoning, should get great value to address our obvious wide receiver needs.

Re-sign Bruton, 3 year deal heavy on incentive/roster bonuses. That way if we cut him, won't hurt vs cap. He is a big part of out special teams. He makes the calls on punts, and we all know his tremendous coverage ability. Decent depth at safety to boot, however I'm guessing he will get a better deal from a more desperate team.

Doesnt it feel good not to be a desperate team come free agency for once? Having depth feels so good!

Everyone else can walk (especially Ball. he must have black mail on Studes??). We already overpaid for Elvis, we CAN NOT afford to overpay for Clady. Think long-term guys. Von Miller is going to need an extension, maybe as soon as next year since he was the first class of the new CBA. HE IS WAY more important to this team and playing at a level that is far above that of Clady.

+1 on this. Clady is not the player he was, and he is not worth a top 5 salary. Last year he led the league in holding calls ( albeit with TT in the backfield), and he got owned two weeks ago in the KC game, gave up several pressures last week. Besides that, he is average to lower tier
in run blocking to his side. Let some other team give him the big salary or see what the market says, then match if its reasonable.

Also + 1 on the other players.

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 06:21 AM
Playing general manager is the best part of message boards. Never too early to look ahead to free agency.

The left tackle position is not as important as it once was, and you are all under estimating the cost of resigning Clady. This isn't the NFL of 2002, let alone 2007. The game has changed significantly. Shot gun formations, running quaterbacks, and quick routes have made the left tackle position much less important than when we drafted him in 2008. Some people in this thread showing their lack of football knowledge. WHAT has Clady done since his injury to deserve a top 5 tackle contract? I'd like a guy that actually can stop Tamba Hali, you know a guy we play twice a season? Clady always gets destroyed by Hali. Hali was BLOWING Clady off the ball 2 weeks ago.

I don't agree with Lonestar on many things, but not touching Clady in the off season is such an obvious move for long-term sustainability. You all realize resigning both Clady and Von Miller will be impossible, right?

cmhargrove
12-05-2012, 06:24 AM
People wanting to let Clady go is just..... ridiculous.

There have to be at least 10 teams this year that could have used help at LT, and would gladly have paid the going rate to get their hands on Clady. Is he perfect, no. Is he good enough and consistent enough to help Manning stay upright and win the division by week 13? Yes. People just get spoiled I guess.

The guy has had a truly impressive career considering his instant impact on the team as a rookie, his ability to be the bookend for several different offensive systems, and his steadfast play on the line. Remember that even through his offseason knee reconstruction, he never missed a game.

We have a pro-bowl Left Tackle protecting the league MVP and people want to let him go so they can find some mystical "budget Left Tackle." Wow.

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 06:32 AM
People wanting to let Clady go is just..... ridiculous.

There have to be at least 10 teams this year that could have used help at LT, and would gladly have paid the going rate to get their hands on Clady. Is he perfect, no. Is he good enough and consistent enough to help Manning stay upright and win the division by week 13? Yes. People just get spoiled I guess.

The guy has had a truly impressive career considering his instant impact on the team as a rookie, his ability to be the bookend for several different offensive systems, and his steadfast play on the line. Remember that even through his offseason knee reconstruction, he never missed a game.

We have a pro-bowl Left Tackle protecting the league MVP and people want to let him go so they can find some mystical "budget Left Tackle." Wow.

Let's dissect this post shall we?

10 teams need a left tackle, which means with such high market demand you are going to have to give Clady a fat contract to come in.

His best season was his rookie year. He has been a shell of his former self since then. Very obvious when you watch film. Perhaps being a former offensive lineman I know what I'm looking for. Clady's first step is much slower than it used to be. The Broncos couldn't meet his demands back in the summer, and IMO this season he hasn't played at a level to warrant the Broncos caving to his demands. FRANKLIN has had a better season, IMO.

Just because you don't miss a game doesn't mean you are playing at a high level.

Do you not trust Elway to sign offensive lineman?

Last time I will post, if we re-sign Clady, Von Miller walks since we overpaid for Elvis. Won't have the ability to match other teams offers, won't have the cap space. We are pot committed to this pass rush thing.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 06:36 AM
People wanting to let Clady go is just..... ridiculous.

There have to be at least 10 teams this year that could have used help at LT, and would gladly have paid the going rate to get their hands on Clady. Is he perfect, no. Is he good enough and consistent enough to help Manning stay upright and win the division by week 13? Yes. People just get spoiled I guess.

The guy has had a truly impressive career considering his instant impact on the team as a rookie, his ability to be the bookend for several different offensive systems, and his steadfast play on the line. Remember that even through his offseason knee reconstruction, he never missed a game.

We have a pro-bowl Left Tackle protecting the league MVP and people want to let him go so they can find some mystical "budget Left Tackle." Wow.

This^
"Mystical Budget Left Tackle" Hilarious!
Out in theatres this fall.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 06:38 AM
Let's dissect this post shall we?

10 teams need a left tackle, which means with such high market demand you are going to have to give Clady a fat contract to come in.

His best season was his rookie year. He has been a shell of his former self since then. Very obvious when you watch film. Perhaps being a former offensive lineman I know what I'm looking for. Clady's first step is much slower than it used to be. The Broncos couldn't meet his demands back in the summer, and IMO this season he hasn't played at a level to warrant the Broncos caving to his demands. FRANKLIN has had a better season, IMO.

Just because you don't miss a game doesn't mean you are playing at a high level.

Do you not trust Elway to sign offensive lineman?

Last time I will post, if we re-sign Clady, Von Miller walks since we overpaid for Elvis. Won't have the ability to match other teams offers, won't have the cap space. We are pot committed to this pass rush thing.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/82170/1545914-1031072_cocaine_super_super.jpg

DBroncos4life
12-05-2012, 06:41 AM
How dare Clady give up pressures from Hali. It's not like the guy doesn't have 60 sacks in less then 7 seasons in the NFL.

DBroncos4life
12-05-2012, 06:44 AM
Let's dissect this post shall we?

10 teams need a left tackle, which means with such high market demand you are going to have to give Clady a fat contract to come in.

His best season was his rookie year. He has been a shell of his former self since then. Very obvious when you watch film. Perhaps being a former offensive lineman I know what I'm looking for. Clady's first step is much slower than it used to be. The Broncos couldn't meet his demands back in the summer, and IMO this season he hasn't played at a level to warrant the Broncos caving to his demands. FRANKLIN has had a better season, IMO.

Just because you don't miss a game doesn't mean you are playing at a high level.

Do you not trust Elway to sign offensive lineman?

Last time I will post, if we re-sign Clady, Von Miller walks since we overpaid for Elvis. Won't have the ability to match other teams offers, won't have the cap space. We are pot committed to this pass rush thing.
Thank god we don't have to read something that dumb again.

fwf
12-05-2012, 06:47 AM
Playing general manager is the best part of message boards. Never too early to look ahead to free agency.

The left tackle position is not as important as it once was, and you are all under estimating the cost of resigning Clady. This isn't the NFL of 2002, let alone 2007. The game has changed significantly. Shot gun formations, running quaterbacks, and quick routes have made the left tackle position much less important than when we drafted him in 2008. Some people in this thread showing their lack of football knowledge. WHAT has Clady done since his injury to deserve a top 5 tackle contract? I'd like a guy that actually can stop Tamba Hali, you know a guy we play twice a season? Clady always gets destroyed by Hali. Hali was BLOWING Clady off the ball 2 weeks ago.

I don't agree with Lonestar on many things, but not touching Clady in the off season is such an obvious move for long-term sustainability. You all realize resigning both Clady and Von Miller will be impossible, right?

So whats your plan for replacing Clady then? You want to draft a guy and let a 21 yr old rookie protect our franchises blind side? Bring in someone else's leavings and hope he picks everything up quick?
No thanks.
I'd rather be stuck with a middle tier, over payed, yet proven LT then take my chances with a rookie or cast off protecting our guy.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 06:59 AM
LT is a premium position. Doesn't make sense to let Clady go and hope we can draft a replacement. Gonna have to pay him, he definately made the right move in the pre-season by not signing.

It used to me a premier spot. But with the advent of the quick passsing game even second year Franklin is looking like an all pro. It is a rare snap that manning does not get rid of the ball in 3 seconds. When it is even Clady is getting beat and allowing hurries.

I watch the OL more than most being an ex ORG and while they look much better this year it is less about being better than than it is because Manning makes reads and keeps them out of trouble.

The last game the D did not shift around much at all and it caused Manning to be more Tentative/hesitent than I have ever remember seeing him. He was unable to read what they were doing at first. Thus that lack of changing of plays at the LOS.

I'm pretty sure that the broncos have a budget laid out knowing how much he will get and most likely UNLESS they saw more improvement than what they knew before the beginning of the season will keep on track and franchise him as a worse case while they get another OLT some work.

I have not seen enough to warrant giving the guy that led the league in holding calls the year before a top five contract when they do not have the funds to do so long term. When your QB is getting near 20% of your budget along with doom another 10%, champ another 10%. Tough decision have to be made, for a spot that is not near as important as it was five years ago.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 07:14 AM
Let's dissect this post shall we?

10 teams need a left tackle, which means with such high market demand you are going to have to give Clady a fat contract to come in.

His best season was his rookie year. He has been a shell of his former self since then. Very obvious when you watch film. Perhaps being a former offensive lineman I know what I'm looking for. Clady's first step is much slower than it used to be. The Broncos couldn't meet his demands back in the summer, and IMO this season he hasn't played at a level to warrant the Broncos caving to his demands. FRANKLIN has had a better season, IMO.

Just because you don't miss a game doesn't mean you are playing at a high Mlevel.

Do you not trust Elway to sign offensive lineman?

Last time I will post, if we re-sign Clady, Von Miller walks since we overpaid for Elvis. Won't have the ability to match other teams offers, won't have the cap space. We are pot committed to this pass rush thing.

Once again a really good post, most folks are thinking this is fantasy football where in most leagues there is no budget cap.

If the guy was all world maybe. But I see the same things you do. I'll bet the coaching staff and John do also.

They know what they have to spend and what their needs are down the road. I doubt they will sell out anymore than they have already getting Manning here to protect the long term future.

It is not about Pat spending more it is about being up to the salary cap and not being able to have all the other toys out there that some folks fantasize over adding to the team.

John committed to building this team via the draft (lower contracts) for the long haul and would have stayed with that had Manning not popped up. I see him getting back on schedule with that now. However butt hurt many here will be.

Requiem
12-05-2012, 07:27 AM
If you watch the game (Chiefs) it was Justin Houston who was getting pressure on Ryan Clady. Clady has been playing very well this year. Anyone advocating that we don't pay him and roll the dice on a rookie LT or cast-off is retarded.

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 07:33 AM
Let's dissect this post shall we?

10 teams need a left tackle, which means with such high market demand you are going to have to give Clady a fat contract to come in.

His best season was his rookie year. He has been a shell of his former self since then. Very obvious when you watch film. Perhaps being a former offensive lineman I know what I'm looking for. Clady's first step is much slower than it used to be. The Broncos couldn't meet his demands back in the summer, and IMO this season he hasn't played at a level to warrant the Broncos caving to his demands. FRANKLIN has had a better season, IMO.

Just because you don't miss a game doesn't mean you are playing at a high level.

Do you not trust Elway to sign offensive lineman?

Last time I will post, if we re-sign Clady, Von Miller walks since we overpaid for Elvis. Won't have the ability to match other teams offers, won't have the cap space. We are pot committed to this pass rush thing.

You watch much football? Just wondering. Manning has been sacked 18 times this year. Only once has Clady given up the sack. If the Broncos are about winning the SB in the next 4 years letting Clady go and then using a high draft pick to replace him makes no sense whatsoever.

Re-sign Clady and use the high pick for a slot, RB, WR, LB, S.. Plenty of positions could be upgraded without creating another need by letting Clady go.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 07:35 AM
Lonelystar the GM would let Clady go and give Wesley Woodyard a bump in pay even though he recently signed an new contract.

Ah name calling guess I expected that of you also.

As for Clady if he was the same guy he was as a rookie might overpay for the spot that is not the premier position it used to be when 5-7 step drops were in style. But he is not the rookie OLT we all thought had sky high potential.

As for Woodyard, I do not recall the numbers he got, but if dumb ass Williams was schedule to make $7,700,000.00 next year and y'all were good with that. With Woodyard out playing dumb ass, one would think a bump NOT the $7.7 mil that dumb ass would havs got might be in order.

That should do it.

DBroncos4life
12-05-2012, 07:42 AM
If you watch the game (Chiefs) it was Justin Houston who was getting pressure on Ryan Clady. Clady has been playing very well this year. Anyone advocating that we don't pay him and roll the dice on a rookie LT or cast-off is retarded.

But but but these cap experts say if we sign Clady we can't resign Miller in THREE years!!!

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 07:45 AM
If you watch the game (Chiefs) it was Justin Houston who was getting pressure on Ryan Clady. Clady has been playing very well this year. Anyone advocating that we don't pay him and roll the dice on a rookie LT or cast-off is retarded.

Yes he was also beat badly by Houston. Thanks for solidifying my point, and then insulting me. Interesting how my comments are met with insults and not facts. Typical of message board homers.

Are we going to find someone as good as Clady? Absolutely not. Clady is a top 10-15 tackle. However, we simply can not afford to pay him what the market is going to dictate if we are also going to extend Miller and Thomas in the next couple of seasons. Clady is going to get paid at the level he was playing during his fantastic 2008 campaign, and there are many dumb front offices out there who will ignore his season this year. There is a reason the bad teams stay bad.

Part of Clady not giving up sacks has been Manning's ability to not give them up. In the Tampa game, pressure was constantly coming from Clady's side. Peyton hasn't had much time to go vertical recently because Clady has been getting his ass beat.

Have you guys never heard of the salary cap? You do know we have 2 of the top 10 paid players and a Clady contract is going to be massive, right? The Broncos have 3 of the top 25 paid players, most in the league. Please, keep ignoring me and and the financial facts. Clady, Miller, and Thomas. Pick 2. You cant have all 3.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 07:46 AM
You watch much football? Just wondering. Manning has been sacked 18 times this year. Only once has Clady given up the sack. If the Broncos are about winning the SB in the next 4 years letting Clady go and then using a high draft pick to replace him makes no sense whatsoever.

Re-sign Clady and use the high pick for a slot, RB, WR, LB, S.. Plenty of positions could be upgraded without creating another need by letting Clady go.

Do yoi watch the games much? Because he also allows hurries, he is not the all pro you seem to think he is. He is better than most and loads of other teams that have OLT that suck will go after him and frankly they will drive his price out of our reach. Good for him, but John had a plan to lock him down last year with a NUMBER that works long term for us.

Clady has just driven that number out of our reach. We have a cap to live under unlike most fans here that live payday to payday and keep adding to their CC debt. Unlike our federal and some state/cities government, John has a budget.

Do we have other needs yep but crap happens.

It will be interesting to see how it ends up.

John so far has pulled some rabbits out of his hat. Will love to see how he handles this.

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 07:53 AM
But but but these cap experts say if we sign Clady we can't resign Miller in THREE years!!!

Unrealistic to think Von after his first two years won't be demanding more money, since the new CBA made his pay very modest compared to previous years when a player was drafted #2. Use your brain.

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 07:56 AM
Whatever, Im dont arguing with people with orange and blue glasses who refuse to acknowledge we were far enough apart with Clady to break off contract talks in August and he has allowed so much pressure this year on Manning, he doesn't deserve to have his demands met by Denver.

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 08:00 AM
Whatever, Im dont arguing with people with orange and blue glasses who refuse to acknowledge we were far enough apart with Clady to break off contract talks in August and he has allowed so much pressure this year on Manning, he doesn't deserve to have his demands met by Denver.

http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

Stan
12-05-2012, 08:03 AM
If Denver franchises Clady this year what kind of salary number would they be looking at? I don't see letting one of the league's better LTs go when Denver is in win-now mode the next couple of years unless they have a lot better choice than counting on replacing him in this next years draft. Denver is going to be selecting at the end of the round and counting on picking up a starter that you can just plug in on the left side doesn't sound good to me. You better have a better plan than just that. Realistically we only have a couple more years with Manning.

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 08:24 AM
Part of Clady not giving up sacks has been Manning's ability to not give them up. In the Tampa game, pressure was constantly coming from Clady's side. Peyton hasn't had much time to go vertical recently because Clady has been getting his ass beat.



Manning has been sacked 18 times this year. Clady going against the defense's best pass rusher has only given up one sack.

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 08:27 AM
Where is the Pro Bowl love for Ryan Clady? I see that he is currently third among AFC left tackles. If the only telling stat for an O-lineman is sacks allowed, then Clady should be No. 1. I did my research, and Clady has given up zero sacks in well over 300 pass attempts. Jake Long, who is the leading vote getter, has given up five sacks, and Joe Thomas (who I assume is No. 2) has surrendered six sacks. Why no love for the man protecting Peyton Manning's blind side?
---Jason G., Thornton
You're right, Clady is having a better year than Long and Thomas, although he did allow one sack in the Kansas City game. The fans don't know a left tackle from my left shoe, Jason. I say that because I can't tell the difference between the elite blockers either.
But the fans are only one-third of the vote, Jason. The players and coaches split the other two-thirds. Clady still has a decent chance.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_22124426/broncos-mailbag-peyton-manning-john-fox-is-it

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Were you ok with plugging in Franklin in at RT after the Ryan Harris experiment was over Stan? Elway hit a home run there. The position is not as important as it once was, especially considering how the game has changed. Trust John fellas!

Look if Clady leaves, we are going to downgrade at LT, there is not question about it. Its a short term sacrifice for long term prosperity.

Stan
12-05-2012, 08:40 AM
Just how long are we talking in long term prosperity? We don't have the time to wait a year or two for a replacement to develop. That is my main objection to letting him go now. How do you know John is planning on letting him go? They tried to resign him this past season, granted at a lower price than what he is going to get this coming offseason but there is nothing that says they are planning on letting him go. This is purely speculation on your part. I still think they will most likely franchise him for this coming season if they don't resign him. I don't see a rookie starting in his place this coming season.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 08:40 AM
Where is the Pro Bowl love for Ryan Clady? I see that he is currently third among AFC left tackles. If the only telling stat for an O-lineman is sacks allowed, then Clady should be No. 1. I did my research, and Clady has given up zero sacks in well over 300 pass attempts. Jake Long, who is the leading vote getter, has given up five sacks, and Joe Thomas (who I assume is No. 2) has surrendered six sacks. Why no love for the man protecting Peyton Manning's blind side?
---Jason G., Thornton
You're right, Clady is having a better year than Long and Thomas, although he did allow one sack in the Kansas City game. The fans don't know a left tackle from my left shoe, Jason. I say that because I can't tell the difference between the elite blockers either.
But the fans are only one-third of the vote, Jason. The players and coaches split the other two-thirds. Clady still has a decent chance.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_22124426/broncos-mailbag-peyton-manning-john-fox-is-it

:strong:END THREAD:strong:

IA-Broncosfan53
12-05-2012, 08:46 AM
im not saying they will let clady go. no one here knows what exactly the plan is with clady. that would be speculation. im merely suggesting that i do not want to pay what the market is going to dictate for clady, likely 7-10m per season. we can't afford that. too many big contracts already.

ill likely get hammered for this, but we really need to restructure elvis's contract by 2014 or cut him. talk about a HUGE hindrance going forward. terrible move to make him the freaking second highest paid player for a guy who does one thing well, bull rush. SMDH

fwf
12-05-2012, 09:11 AM
Just how long are we talking in long term prosperity? We don't have the time to wait a year or two for a replacement to develop. That is my main objection to letting him go now. How do you know John is planning on letting him go? They tried to resign him this past season, granted at a lower price than what he is going to get this coming offseason but there is nothing that says they are planning on letting him go. This is purely speculation on your part. I still think they will most likely franchise him for this coming season if they don't resign him. I don't see a rookie starting in his place this coming season.

You just said everything I said a few posts before you.

You got some issues Stan, I think you need some counseling

Irish Stout
12-05-2012, 09:19 AM
Find it hard to care too much right now though. We're in a Superbowl hunt right now, the offseason can wait!

I appreciate this because there is so little else to discuss when your team is really good.

DBroncos4life
12-05-2012, 09:27 AM
Unrealistic to think Von after his first two years won't be demanding more money, since the new CBA made his pay very modest compared to previous years when a player was drafted #2. Use your brain.

We should let Thomas and Decker walk too. We need that money for Miller. ROFL!

broncocalijohn
12-05-2012, 09:28 AM
You just said everything I said a few posts before you.

You got some issues Stan, I think you need some counseling

Dear Stan.......

cmhargrove
12-05-2012, 09:29 AM
im not saying they will let clady go. no one here knows what exactly the plan is with clady. that would be speculation. im merely suggesting that i do not want to pay what the market is going to dictate for clady, likely 7-10m per season. we can't afford that. too many big contracts already.

ill likely get hammered for this, but we really need to restructure elvis's contract by 2014 or cut him. talk about a HUGE hindrance going forward. terrible move to make him the freaking second highest paid player for a guy who does one thing well, bull rush. SMDH

Now a post that makes more sense. Restructure the guys that are underperforming, pay the guys that are earning their check. I completely disagree with your first response to my earlier post about Clady's worth, but taking money away from Elvis (easy position to replace) and giving it to Clady (extremely difficult position to replace) make a huge amount of sense.

Once again, we can agree to disagree here. I'm going on record by saying there is no way in hell that Elway lets Clady walk. Zero chance. None. Bookmark this post and bring it up if I am wrong, I will happily eat crow.

The FO played some great gamesmanship on waiting out Clady's conract because last year's Tebow offense put Clady under the microscope and had us questioning all those holding calls. But guess what? Clady has now earned his new contract and will get it. They will restructure other salaries to meet each player's level of performance, then give the raise to Clady.

If we are winning a Superbowl, it is still all about Peyton Manning. That makes the second most important person on this team (arguably) Ryan Clady.

Think of how much better teams like Chicago or Green Bay would be if they had a LT the caliber of Clady.

gyldenlove
12-05-2012, 09:31 AM
Where is the Pro Bowl love for Ryan Clady? I see that he is currently third among AFC left tackles. If the only telling stat for an O-lineman is sacks allowed, then Clady should be No. 1. I did my research, and Clady has given up zero sacks in well over 300 pass attempts. Jake Long, who is the leading vote getter, has given up five sacks, and Joe Thomas (who I assume is No. 2) has surrendered six sacks. Why no love for the man protecting Peyton Manning's blind side?
---Jason G., Thornton
You're right, Clady is having a better year than Long and Thomas, although he did allow one sack in the Kansas City game. The fans don't know a left tackle from my left shoe, Jason. I say that because I can't tell the difference between the elite blockers either.
But the fans are only one-third of the vote, Jason. The players and coaches split the other two-thirds. Clady still has a decent chance.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_22124426/broncos-mailbag-peyton-manning-john-fox-is-it

Considering that Jake Long is a RT who is now injured and not a sure thing to be resigned in Miami - getting that many votes is a huge joke. The list of tackles in the AFC who are better than Long is pretty long.

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 09:37 AM
Sammie Lee Hill DT - (DET)
As fast and disruptive as DEN's interior defensive line is, they still need a big body to stop the run on 1st and 2nd down, and create more 3 and outs for opposing offense's. Hill is a talented run stuffer at the point of attack, and for as much hype as the rest of the Lions D-line players get, Hill is a stand-out in his own right. Tendered at a 4th rounder last year, i thought DEN should have jumped on him, however now hes completely free of any contract squabbles, and DET will be hard pressed to re-sign another D-line player with all the $$$ they already have thrown at that position. Hill brings bulk,
and size to the D-line, but also allows JDR to use multiple fronts and formations with other D-line players. Like Moore, Hill will be looking for a mid-sized contract with a winner, so he wont break the bank either.
Alternate - Sedrick Ellis (NO)

What is your fascination with this guy?

socalorado
12-05-2012, 09:52 AM
What is your fascination with this guy?

Cmon man, you know you love him.
Melton will cost a boat load. He is a beast though.
But a very expensive beast.
I think Hill is a very solid DT and could really be good along with Wolfe, Vickerson and my 1st round draft pick Nix III. These 4 i think would really allow JDR to dial up some different packages moving Wolf all over the place. Just my 2 cents.
Now, what about my other 2 FA's?

Requiem
12-05-2012, 10:11 AM
Yes he was also beat badly by Houston. Thanks for solidifying my point, and then insulting me. Interesting how my comments are met with insults and not facts. Typical of message board homers.

He was beat by Houston for one sack that game. You got the player wrong. Tamba Hali wasn't beating him all day. You made a generalization and people caught you with your hand in the cookie jar. FWIW, next to Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady has allowed the least amount of pressures (percentage wise, based on snaps) on quarterbacks in the league. He is doing better than Franklin in that regard (and sacks allowed) -- and people like you have mentioned that Franklin is playing at an All-Pro level.

Are we going to find someone as good as Clady? Absolutely not. Clady is a top 10-15 tackle. However, we simply can not afford to pay him what the market is going to dictate if we are also going to extend Miller and Thomas in the next couple of seasons. Clady is going to get paid at the level he was playing during his fantastic 2008 campaign, and there are many dumb front offices out there who will ignore his season this year. There is a reason the bad teams stay bad.

He is easily a Top 10 tackle in the NFL. Why would they ignore his season? He is having a great season. I'll get more into your financial concerns later.

Part of Clady not giving up sacks has been Manning's ability to not give them up. In the Tampa game, pressure was constantly coming from Clady's side. Peyton hasn't had much time to go vertical recently because Clady has been getting his ass beat.

He has been going vertical plenty. You are full of sh-t.

Have you guys never heard of the salary cap? You do know we have 2 of the top 10 paid players and a Clady contract is going to be massive, right? The Broncos have 3 of the top 25 paid players, most in the league. Please, keep ignoring me and and the financial facts. Clady, Miller, and Thomas. Pick 2. You cant have all 3.

You don't have any financial facts. You are operating under the assertion that the Broncos can't afford their best players. They can.

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 10:30 AM
Cmon man, you know you love him.
Melton will cost a boat load. He is a beast though.
But a very expensive beast.
I think Hill is a very solid DT and could really be good along with Wolfe, Vickerson and my 1st round draft pick Nix III. These 4 i think would really allow JDR to dial up some different packages moving Wolf all over the place. Just my 2 cents.
Now, what about my other 2 FA's?

Amendola would be awesome to replace Stokely, but I don't think he's going anywhere. Too vital to StL when healthy.

As for the IOL, now that Beadles has shown some finish and fight, I'd rather just draft the depth, really.

Requiem
12-05-2012, 10:34 AM
Amendola would be awesome to replace Stokely, but I don't think he's going anywhere. Too vital to StL when healthy.

As for the IOL, now that Beadles has shown some finish and fight, I'd rather just draft the depth, really.

Agreed. I don't see how the Rams could let Danny walk.

Beadles has made some excellent blocks in the running game, but I think he is doing much better holding his own in pass blocking in comparison to last year.

I am encouraged to see a lot of the growth our youngsters who are in their third year. A lot of crap has changed since they were brought in. . . I was stoked when we got Porter in the off-season, but I have no idea what is going on with that guy anymore -- but happy as Hell Chris Harris and Tony Carter have stepped it up. I still think we can add talent at CB and upgrade over Adams.

I share the sentiment with you that we should just draft for depth on the interior.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 10:35 AM
taking money away from Elvis (easy position to replace) and giving it to Clady (extremely difficult position to replace) make a huge amount of sense.


If a sack master RDE is so easy to replace, why doesn't every team have one? The Broncos pass rush is just as vital to their Superbowl chances as Peyton Manning is.

Dumervil is 16th in the NFL in sacks...and harrassed Josh Freeman all day last Sunday. You can thank McDaniels and Xanders for his bloated contract, but don't get it twisted...Elvis is vital.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 10:39 AM
Amendola would be awesome to replace Stokely, but I don't think he's going anywhere. Too vital to StL when healthy.

As for the IOL, now that Beadles has shown some finish and fight, I'd rather just draft the depth, really.

If DEN can match STLs offer, he'll walk to play with Manning.
Shoot, i think he wants to walk!
STL is a cheap ass team, regardless of whos coaching.

I just want depth for Manning on the O-line.

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 10:43 AM
RIF





Just when are y'all gonna learn to read and understand.

Where are you going to the money for him??

Manning is getting 100 mil, doom gets 9mil a year, just those two are costing your almost 30% of your cap value. Where are yoi going to get the miney forthe other 50 players. We also have to worry about locking Miller down very soon, have DT and Deckker coming up next year..

Obviously y'all are not business owners or never have done budget. Money does not grow in trees.

If you do sign him to the contract he will want it will cripple us from getting other UFA.

This isn't the Shanahan regime of huge overpriced free agents being brought in. Elway has shown that he brings in solid contributors on shorter less costly deals. He isn't buildin a team through free agency like Mike did and burned through huge cash amounts. Elway is using Free agency to fill need spots for a short period of time.

Look at the free agent deals he has made. They are all basically one or two year deals for one to two million a year. Not breaking the bank. He is setting the cap up to keep the team's own young guys when new deals are neededand build through the draft and use Free agency for filler roles over a short time.

Requiem
12-05-2012, 10:44 AM
If a sack master RDE is so easy to replace, why doesn't every team have one? The Broncos pass rush is just as vital to their Superbowl chances as Peyton Manning is.

Dumervil is 16th in the NFL in sacks...and harrassed Josh Freeman all day last Sunday. You can thank McDaniels and Xanders for his bloated contract, but don't get it twisted...Elvis is vital.

Not to mention, Elvis contract gets smaller from here on out.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Amendola would be awesome to replace Stokely, but I don't think he's going anywhere. Too vital to StL when healthy.

As for the IOL, now that Beadles has shown some finish and fight, I'd rather just draft the depth, really.

In the 1st round, I would draft BPA of WR, DT, or RB.

I'm thinking Tayvon Austin, Terrance Williams, Kawann Short, or Eddie Lacy.

Stokley isn't going to last as long as Manning plays, so they are either going to have to move Decker to slot, or draft a replacement.

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 10:49 AM
If DEN can match STLs offer, he'll walk to play with Manning.
Shoot, i think he wants to walk!
STL is a cheap ass team, regardless of whos coaching.

I just want depth for Manning on the O-line.

I like Amendola but I would love to see us make a play on Welker

socalorado
12-05-2012, 10:51 AM
I like Amendola but I would love to see us make a play on Welker

Amendola is Welker, just younger.
Ok, maybe not completely as good as Welker, but really close.
Manning makes everyone better, so Amendola would basically be
Welker with Manning!
Plus Amendola is younger, so he would still be really good for Oz when he takes over.
Just sayin..

socalorado
12-05-2012, 10:53 AM
In the 1st round, I would draft BPA of WR, DT, or RB.

I'm thinking Tayvon Austin, Terrance Williams, Kawann Short, or Eddie Lacy.

Stokley isn't going to last as long as Manning plays, so they are either going to have to move Decker to slot, or draft a replacement.

In my draft, i do exactly that. I draft Nix III.
I would take Short in a heartbeat too.

And i do think Amendola will walk. There will be plenty of suitors, and many will have SB calibur teams.

fwf
12-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Amendola would be awesome to replace Stokely, but I don't think he's going anywhere. Too vital to StL when healthy.

As for the IOL, now that Beadles has shown some finish and fight, I'd rather just draft the depth, really.


I dont see us using big money and cap space on a 3rd WR. I could be wrong, considering we do run the 3 wide set on about 75% of downs.

I think we're in a position to draft "best player on the board", but if a big time WR is sitting there then its going to be hardfor Elway to pass him up i think.

Having 3 legit WR and putting DT on outside to stretch the field, even if 18 cant get it to him, they still have to respect it. We would be a nightmare for opposing defenses. And it would be just another WR 18 could take under his wing and turn into an all pro.
DT and Decker wont be cheap when it comes time to re-up either

fwf
12-05-2012, 11:01 AM
This isn't the Shanahan regime of huge overpriced free agents being brought in. Elway has shown that he brings in solid contributors on shorter less costly deals. He isn't buildin a team through free agency like Mike did and burned through huge cash amounts. Elway is using Free agency to fill need spots for a short period of time.

Look at the free agent deals he has made. They are all basically one or two year deals for one to two million a year. Not breaking the bank. He is setting the cap up to keep the team's own young guys when new deals are neededand build through the draft and use Free agency for filler roles over a short time.

Well, Fox has shown the ability to develop players too, unlike Shanahan was ever able to do consistently. He never developed picks well. Lets give Fox and his staff, and not just Elway credit for guys like Harris, Carter, Woodyard, Beadles, Decker, Etc. for improving and turning into pro's.
Or maybe it's just 18.

maven
12-05-2012, 11:07 AM
Amendola is Welker, just younger.
Ok, maybe not completely as good as Welker, but really close.
Manning makes everyone better, so Amendola would basically be
Welker with Manning!
Plus Amendola is younger, so he would still be really good for Oz when he takes over.
Just sayin..

But, I could see Welker hitting FA and Danny staying in St. Louis getting paid.

maven
12-05-2012, 11:13 AM
I could see Kuper getting cut.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 11:16 AM
But, I could see Welker hitting FA and Danny staying in St. Louis getting paid.

Amendola is gonna get paid one way or the other!
I just think if DEN can match STL's offer, he will walk
to play with a team that is going to be on the short
list of SB contenders, and has Manning.
So DEN spends some coin on 1 proven player in FA,
and the rest are middle tier FA's that dont break the bank.
I also dont see a very deep class for WR.
A healthy Woods would be a really good slot reciever though.

Beantown Bronco
12-05-2012, 11:22 AM
I could see Kuper getting cut.

from a few weeks ago

Manny Ramirez will fill in for Kuper. Although Peyton Manning's 10 sacks taken are the second-fewest in the NFL, they have all come in the five games started by Ramirez.

mr007
12-05-2012, 11:25 AM
If a sack master RDE is so easy to replace, why doesn't every team have one? The Broncos pass rush is just as vital to their Superbowl chances as Peyton Manning is.

Dumervil is 16th in the NFL in sacks...and harrassed Josh Freeman all day last Sunday. You can thank McDaniels and Xanders for his bloated contract, but don't get it twisted...Elvis is vital.

I'd argue he isn't as vital as Clady. Also, Ayers has shown flashes so if it comes down to it, seems like the better route to take.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 11:27 AM
from a few weeks ago

Manny Ramirez will fill in for Kuper. Although Peyton Manning's 10 sacks taken are the second-fewest in the NFL, they have all come in the five games started by Ramirez.

Heres something we also can agree on.
There needs to be some serious depth on the O-line considering the
fact that DEN now has Peyton. Keeping him upright and throwing downfield is critical to everything.
So as you have already seen, i drafted a multi-threat RB, another center, and in FA went out and got a solid vet in Moore to play RG and have as depth.
DEN needs depth on the O-line, so that if Kupe or another player goes down, they can adjust without putting Manning at risk.

maven
12-05-2012, 11:31 AM
from a few weeks ago

Manny Ramirez will fill in for Kuper. Although Peyton Manning's 10 sacks taken are the second-fewest in the NFL, they have all come in the five games started by Ramirez.

He's hurt all the time and I believe he's being paid handsomely.

24champ
12-05-2012, 11:32 AM
As for Clady if he was the same guy he was as a rookie might overpay for the spot that is not the premier position it used to be when 5-7 step drops were in style. But he is not the rookie OLT we all thought had sky high potential.

As for Woodyard, I do not recall the numbers he got, but if dumb ass Williams was schedule to make $7,700,000.00 next year and y'all were good with that. With Woodyard out playing dumb ass, one would think a bump NOT the $7.7 mil that dumb ass would havs got might be in order.

That should do it.

Glad you don't run a company. Horrible asset management.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 11:45 AM
I'd argue he isn't as vital as Clady. Also, Ayers has shown flashes so if it comes down to it, seems like the better route to take.

That's like trading a 1.0 carat diamond for a box of rocks.

Ayers is nowhere close to Dumervil in skill sets. Von would be tripled on every play. Ayers might be a solid LDE, not an RDE.

Clady is rich already, if he wants to be the highest paid Tackle in the NFL, he'll have to walk. Players don't generally do that on Superbowl contending teams. Dumervil has a ridiculous contract because McDaniels was a desperate idiot.

They could approach Dumervil about restructuring, but cutting him loose is not necessary. Clady can be franchised.

cmhargrove
12-05-2012, 11:58 AM
If a sack master RDE is so easy to replace, why doesn't every team have one? The Broncos pass rush is just as vital to their Superbowl chances as Peyton Manning is.

Dumervil is 16th in the NFL in sacks...and harrassed Josh Freeman all day last Sunday. You can thank McDaniels and Xanders for his bloated contract, but don't get it twisted...Elvis is vital.

Honestly, don't most NFL teams have a defensive end that gets 8-10 sacks per year? Sure, they do cost a lot at contract time, but many of those players are also better at run defense than Elvis (which got his contract as a 17 sack 3-4 OLB).

Don't get me wrong, I hope Elvis retires a Bronco and I love him, but if you are asking me to make a business decision - i'd probably see if I could trade him. I'm not sure about all his contract details, but I thought he was still scheduled to make about $12 mil next year. If you could free up that cash + get maybe a second rounder, you could possibly net three starters in the process (MLB, DT, DE - take your pick).

gyldenlove
12-05-2012, 12:11 PM
Honestly, don't most NFL teams have a defensive end that gets 8-10 sacks per year? Sure, they do cost a lot at contract time, but many of those players are also better at run defense than Elvis (which got his contract as a 17 sack 3-4 OLB).

Don't get me wrong, I hope Elvis retires a Bronco and I love him, but if you are asking me to make a business decision - i'd probably see if I could trade him. I'm not sure about all his contract details, but I thought he was still scheduled to make about $12 mil next year. If you could free up that cash + get maybe a second rounder, you could possibly net three starters in the process (MLB, DT, DE - take your pick).

Last year 8 teams didn't have a player who registered 8 or more sacks (Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Jets, Green Bay, New Orleans, Cincinati and Tennessee) - so it is definitely not something every team has.

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 12:23 PM
Amendola is Welker, just younger.
Ok, maybe not completely as good as Welker, but really close.
Manning makes everyone better, so Amendola would basically be
Welker with Manning!
Plus Amendola is younger, so he would still be really good for Oz when he takes over.
Just sayin..

Good point. I just love the idea of sticking it to New England at least once a year because for the next few years we most likely will play them either regular season or playoffs.

fontaine
12-05-2012, 12:30 PM
I have to laugh at the idea of getting rid of Dumervil.

There's a reason why DE/DTs who can pressure the QB are being overpayed and it's because it's getting to be more and more of a passing league. Same with LTs.

Everyone needs to relax about Clady/Dumervil. Every single team is going to overpay a good DE, good LT.

We're just going to overpay for two great ones. Not a bad problem to have.

DL: Replace Ty Warren with Glenn Dorsey or Randy Starks
DE: See how Ayers finishes
MLB: Draft
RB: Stephen Jackson (and draft)
WR: Draft

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 12:33 PM
He's hurt all the time and I believe he's being paid handsomely.

What is this hurt all the time crap I constantly read about Kuper? Yes this season he has been in and out a couple times, but realistically with that ankle injury it is amazing he has played much at all this season. People talking like he is Ryan Harris

From 2007 - 2011 he has played 78 out of the teams 80 regular season games. His rookie year he didnt play much only 1 game and this year has been rough. Coming back from the ankle give the guy a break. Next season the ankle will be fully recuperated, his stamina strength and movement on the ankle will be back to normal.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Honestly, don't most NFL teams have a defensive end that gets 8-10 sacks per year? Sure, they do cost a lot at contract time, but many of those players are also better at run defense than Elvis (which got his contract as a 17 sack 3-4 OLB).

Dumervil is a 10+ sack DE, and is an All-Pro/Pro Bowl player. He He's not just an average guy. Having one guy who can pass rush is easy. Having multiple elite pass rushers is lights out. If you take Elvis away from this Defense, Von is triple-teamed every play. So until you can do that, then it's not even worth talking about.





Don't get me wrong, I hope Elvis retires a Bronco and I love him, but if you are asking me to make a business decision - i'd probably see if I could trade him. I'm not sure about all his contract details, but I thought he was still scheduled to make about $12 mil next year. If you could free up that cash + get maybe a second rounder, you could possibly net three starters in the process (MLB, DT, DE - take your pick).

You are not going to find a better MLB than D.J. Williams on the Free Agent market, nor a better DE than Elvis Dumervil. The Broncos could upgrade at DT in Free Agency, but it'll cost you big bucks if you want a penetrating DT. Brodrick Bunkley (a complete non-penetrator) commanded $5M. Soliai is about the same. Neither one of those guys is an upgrade over Vickerson/Bannan. Interior pass-rushers are the rarest of breeds. They are extremely hard to find...especially outside of the top 10. That's why we drafted Wolfe.

fontaine
12-05-2012, 12:45 PM
Dumervil is a 10+ sack DE, and is an All-Pro/Pro Bowl player. He He's not just an average guy. Having one guy who can pass rush is easy. Having multiple elite pass rushers is lights out. If you take Elvis away from this Defense, Von is triple-teamed every play. So until you can do that, then it's not even worth talking about.


You are not going to find a better MLB than D.J. Williams on the Free Agent market, nor a better DE than Elvis Dumervil. The Broncos could upgrade at DT in Free Agency, but it'll cost you big bucks if you want a penetrating DT. Brodrick Bunkley (a complete non-penetrator) commanded $5M. Soliai is about the same. Neither one of those guys is an upgrade over Vickerson/Bannan. Interior pass-rushers are the rarest of breeds. They are extremely hard to find...especially outside of the top 10. That's why we drafted Wolfe.

Great post.

Wolfe will develop and that's why it's vital that Ayers continues on his upward trend.

We'll be more than able to afford one of the many run stopping DTs that hit the market every year.

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 12:47 PM
I have to laugh at the idea of getting rid of Dumervil.

There's a reason why DE/DTs who can pressure the QB are being overpayed and it's because it's getting to be more and more of a passing league. Same with LTs.

Everyone needs to relax about Clady/Dumervil. Every single team is going to overpay a good DE, good LT.

We're just going to overpay for two great ones. Not a bad problem to have.

DL: Replace Ty Warren with Glenn Dorsey or Randy Starks
DE: See how Ayers finishes
MLB: Draft
RB: Stephen Jackson (and draft)
WR: Draft

As much as I liked Stephen Jackson, I really don't want a RB wuth as much mileage as he has on his legs. I would really like to get away from the older backs and get some powerful youth

socalorado
12-05-2012, 12:51 PM
As much as I liked Stephen Jackson, I really don't want a RB wuth as much mileage as he has on his legs. I would really like to get away from the older backs and get some powerful youth

I would love to see this guy go in the 2nd/3rd round to DEN.
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/16/04/13/3687155/3/628x471.jpg

fontaine
12-05-2012, 12:51 PM
As much as I liked Stephen Jackson, I really don't want a RB wuth as much mileage as he has on his legs. I would really like to get away from the older backs and get some powerful youth

RB: Stephen Jackson (and draft)

Jackson is one of the best pass catching RBs in the entire league, great blocker, runs hard and still has one/two good seasons in him.

We've got another two year window after this season. Manning needs a plug and play RB, not some rook who's going to struggle in blitz pickups.

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 12:54 PM
I would love to see this guy go in the 2nd/3rd round to DEN.
[IMG]http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/16/04/13/3687155/3/628x471.jpg[/MG]

Please god, NO MORE EARLY RBS

lonestar
12-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Glad you don't run a company. Horrible asset management.

Did run one for damned near 40 years always turned a profit, save the last couple, (where 911 killed the economy where I live, not that it was great before it)
I Always had more than average share of market. I do know from your comments on here you would never work for me as you are an emo. To close to the situation to make intelligent business decisions.

Running a business means making hard decisions and sometimes unpopular ones. Like Pat firing a supposeded icon to make drastic changes necessary to survive. Then realizing a mistake was made and hiring a real businessman to fix it.

CEH
12-05-2012, 12:58 PM
Please god, NO MORE EARLY RBS

That kid from Philly looks damn good if you ignore his fumblitis. What round did he go in?

I agree no RBs in the top rounds.

socalorado
12-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Please god, NO MORE EARLY RBS

Jeez, dude would you relax!?!?!
Its like you were in the Marine Corp, and got constantly butt raped a whole bunch or something.
DEN really needs another full-time RB, and there are not alot of FA options this year. As a matter of fact, its a really weak FA for RBs.
I think Taylor would be there in the 3rd round myself.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Please god, NO MORE EARLY RBS

Hear hear.

Few if any are worth the money and their career path is normally short unlike DL and OL folks who mostly stick around 8-12 years. With many filling a role well into years 15 or so. Same could be said for LB WR and DBs. RBs just take to much abuse.

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 01:02 PM
That kid from Philly looks damn good if you ignore his fumblitis. What round did he go in?

I agree no RBs in the top ounds.

^ exactly. Makes drafting a Lesean look ****ing pointless, doesn't it?

Unless the next Adrian Peterson is sitting there, you're pissing away a valuable pick.

Jeez, dude would you relax!?!?!
Its like you were in the Marine Corp, and got constantly butt raped a whole bunch or something.
DEN really needs another full-time RB, and there are not alot of FA options this year. As a matter of fact, its a really weak FA for RBs.
I think Taylor would be there in the 3rd round myself.

Why?

Atwater His Ass
12-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Playing general manager is the best part of message boards. Never too early to look ahead to free agency.

The left tackle position is not as important as it once was, and you are all under estimating the cost of resigning Clady. This isn't the NFL of 2002, let alone 2007. The game has changed significantly. Shot gun formations, running quaterbacks, and quick routes have made the left tackle position much less important than when we drafted him in 2008. Some people in this thread showing their lack of football knowledge. WHAT has Clady done since his injury to deserve a top 5 tackle contract? I'd like a guy that actually can stop Tamba Hali, you know a guy we play twice a season? Clady always gets destroyed by Hali. Hali was BLOWING Clady off the ball 2 weeks ago.

I don't agree with Lonestar on many things, but not touching Clady in the off season is such an obvious move for long-term sustainability. You all realize resigning both Clady and Von Miller will be impossible, right?

Market value is market value. Attempting to down play the importance of the position because you don't want to pay for Clady is laughable. Good effort throwing the "football knowldge" card out there as well. Denver will need to find a way to keep Clady, espcially with the focus in the short term with Manning. Did you just try to classify Manning as a running QB? Nice.

I'll also give you a +1 for going the extra mile claiming it's Clady vs. Miller. Hilarious!

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 01:19 PM
RB: Stephen Jackson (and draft)

Jackson is one of the best pass catching RBs in the entire league, great blocker, runs hard and still has one/two good seasons in him.

We've got another two year window after this season. Manning needs a plug and play RB, not some rook who's going to struggle in blitz pickups.

Manning needs a running threat that is always available. It doesn't mean he needs an old back. RB is the one position where a college player can instantly step in and contribute easily. An offseason working with Peyton should get him up to speed.

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 01:23 PM
Jeez, dude would you relax!?!?!
Its like you were in the Marine Corp, and got constantly butt raped a whole bunch or something.
DEN really needs another full-time RB, and there are not alot of FA options this year. As a matter of fact, its a really weak FA for RBs.
I think Taylor would be there in the 3rd round myself.
Why is a full time RB needed. Aside from a few special cases the feature back is gone in the NFL. Fox doesn't use feature backs he had two backs in Carolina with very similar skill sets to split the workload. Draft a powerful downhill runner and pair him with Hillman who hopefully will have developed more and enjoy the RBBC

socalorado
12-05-2012, 02:29 PM
Why is a full time RB needed. Aside from a few special cases the feature back is gone in the NFL. Fox doesn't use feature backs he had two backs in Carolina with very similar skill sets to split the workload. Draft a powerful downhill runner and pair him with Hillman who hopefully will have developed more and enjoy the RBBC

Thats exactly what i proposed!
RB Stephan Taylor is a powerful downhill runner that can run between the tackles, catch out of the backfiled and can block as well.
I have him as a 3rd rounder.
I would love to get Bryce Brown, but i dont think hes goin anywhere.

Heyneck
12-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Why is a full time RB needed. Aside from a few special cases the feature back is gone in the NFL. Fox doesn't use feature backs he had two backs in Carolina with very similar skill sets to split the workload. Draft a powerful downhill runner and pair him with Hillman who hopefully will have developed more and enjoy the RBBC

Yeah but both of those featured backs where talented 1st round picks. Lets see Hillman develop because all he can do right now is run to the edges.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 02:44 PM
Everyone needs to stop comparing the Stanford rb to Doug Martin n ray rice they were first round draft picks , the only thing they have in common is stature. The kid from Oklahoma state has speed to spare and is a true play maker. Joseph randle in the second!

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 02:49 PM
Everyone needs to stop comparing the Stanford rb to Doug Martin n ray rice they were first round draft picks , the only thing they have in common is stature. The kid from Oklahoma state has speed to spare and is a true play maker. Joseph randle in the second!

...only Martin was. And barely.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 02:51 PM
Wolfe = ayers honestly. I don't know why they don't kick Wolfe inside and let Robert start at de. They are equally good at setting the edge and run defense while ayers offers more burst with longer arms to rush the passer. The line should be dumerville Vick Wolfe ayers with Von the joker rushing from all over. I think that's our best package equally strong against the run and rushing the passer

maven
12-05-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm in the boat this team needs a playmaker at RB and I don't care what round he comes in.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 02:54 PM
...only Martin was. And barely.

My bad I thought rice went late first. But still I don't get all the love for that kid . Go big or go home get a real talent at rb not these role runners we hope to pan out

Kaylore
12-05-2012, 02:57 PM
I agree we need another RB, but I also think it won't be hard to find one or will require crazy resources. I am not against using a second day draft pick on one, though.

Br0nc0Buster
12-05-2012, 03:05 PM
That kid from Philly looks damn good if you ignore his fumblitis. What round did he go in?

I agree no RBs in the top rounds.

Bryce Brown?
He was undrafted

g6matty
12-05-2012, 03:08 PM
Bryce brown round7 pick 229

CEH
12-05-2012, 03:09 PM
Bryce Brown?
He was undrafted

Even better and more ammo for not using a top pick on a RB who really are just ACLa waiting to happen

Br0nc0Buster
12-05-2012, 03:09 PM
We do need a RB
I wouldnt mind using a 2nd on Eddie Lacey
I dont have a problem getting a stud runner with a 2nd, but using a first on a RB is horrible value

Surprisingly this is the first time I think Dline is NOT a huge concern going into a draft
We could use some youth at DT, but at end I think we are good

BPA should be the way to go in the first

Br0nc0Buster
12-05-2012, 03:10 PM
I guess Brown was a 7th not undrafted

fontaine
12-05-2012, 03:15 PM
Manning needs a running threat that is always available. It doesn't mean he needs an old back. RB is the one position where a college player can instantly step in and contribute easily. An offseason working with Peyton should get him up to speed.

Our offense is predicated on the same players (no huddle) working out of different formations being able to do multiple things.

Yeah, I know that description sucks but it's close to the truth.

We need an every down back in this offense not because we run the ball so much, but because the same RB needs to be able to pick up the right blitz reads, pass block, flare out and catch passes, and then run the ball up the gut when Manning reads the safeties deep.

THAT'S why Moreno is getting the bulk of the carries ahead of Ball, Hillman. Not because he's the better pure runner, but combined he's better than those guys.

Subbing a combination of RBs (Hillman/Moreno/draft pick etc) because they can't do all of those things would severely limit our no huddle capability.

It is what it is. THAT'S why we need an experienced back who's plug and play and no rookie is going to come in and be able to do all of that unless you want to spend a first day pick on guy.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 03:31 PM
You guys do realize, that if Moreno continues doing what he's doing, Hillman continues to progress, and McGahee comes back from injury...that we only need an RB to replace Ball, right?

A McGahee/Moreno/Hillman/late draft pick combo is pretty damn good.

1. McGahee is a top 11 rusher, when healthy.
2. Moreno has 4 more games to continue to make a place for himself on this squad, and is looking good.
3. Hillman looked real good against Tampa, averaging over 5 yards a carry.

After that, it really comes down to the quality of blocking on the OL.

I don't care if you sign Stephen Jackson or draft Eddie Lacy in the 1st round, they won't be able to run through holes that aren't there.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-05-2012, 03:36 PM
You guys do realize, that if Moreno continues doing what he's doing, Hillman continues to progress, and McGahee comes back from injury...that we only need an RB to replace Ball, right?

A McGahee/Moreno/Hillman/late draft pick combo is pretty damn good.

1. McGahee is a top 11 rusher, when healthy.
2. Moreno has 4 more games to continue to make a place for himself on this squad, and is looking good.
3. Hillman looked real good against Tampa, averaging over 5 yards a carry.

After that, it really comes down to the quality of blocking on the OL.

I don't care if you sign Stephen Jackson or draft Eddie Lacy in the 1st round, they won't be able to run through holes that aren't there.

I think this is a fairly narrow view. I'd rather have someone younger and a bit more of a gamebreaker than McGahee.

DENVERDUI55
12-05-2012, 03:49 PM
I think this is the guy I hadn't even heard of two weeks ago. King of embrassing considering how much time I waste on football...

In other news, has anyone kept up with whoever that Balt. backup MLB from last offseason or the one before? Has he gone on to do anything? I think by the time he signed, everyone on the site had been convinced he was the key to the SB but the front office dropped the ball. I don't think I've heard anything since he signed.

Mcclain although he isn't a backup but the other ilb in their defense.

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2012, 03:54 PM
You guys do realize, that if Moreno continues doing what he's doing, Hillman continues to progress, and McGahee comes back from injury...that we only need an RB to replace Ball, right?

A McGahee/Moreno/Hillman/late draft pick combo is pretty damn good.

1. McGahee is a top 11 rusher, when healthy.
2. Moreno has 4 more games to continue to make a place for himself on this squad, and is looking good.
3. Hillman looked real good against Tampa, averaging over 5 yards a carry.

After that, it really comes down to the quality of blocking on the OL.

I don't care if you sign Stephen Jackson or draft Eddie Lacy in the 1st round, they won't be able to run through holes that aren't there.

I don't think McGahee can be counted on as much as he used to be. Fumble problems tend to be the sign of a back nearing the end. To me Jackson isn't a gret option for our starter. This isn't 2008 and unlike McGahee who split caries and wasn't a big contributor for a few season, Jackson has played a lot and run a lot of plays. His best days have passed.

We need to draft a guy and avoid the older former star with diminishing ability trap and build up someone young and talented

lonestar
12-05-2012, 03:55 PM
Wolfe = ayers honestly. I don't know why they don't kick Wolfe inside and let Robert start at de. They are equally good at setting the edge and run defense while ayers offers more burst with longer arms to rush the passer. The line should be dumerville Vick Wolfe ayers with Von the joker rushing from all over. I think that's our best package equally strong against the run and rushing the passer

So the starting 4 is set for the passing downs barring injuries, what are you going to do behind them? Or for running downs.

As we all know at altitude 60 minutes DL folks do not work.

And BTW who is going to set the edge on Dooms side in a running situation.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 03:59 PM
You guys do realize, that if Moreno continues doing what he's doing, Hillman continues to progress, and McGahee comes back from injury...that we only need an RB to replace Ball, right?

A McGahee/Moreno/Hillman/late draft pick combo is pretty damn good.

1. McGahee is a top 11 rusher, when healthy.
2. Moreno has 4 more games to continue to make a place for himself on this squad, and is looking good.
3. Hillman looked real good against Tampa, averaging over 5 yards a carry.

After that, it really comes down to the quality of blocking on the OL.

I don't care if you sign Stephen Jackson or draft Eddie Lacy in the 1st round, they won't be able to run through holes that aren't there.

:thumbs:

The problem is members get Woody for certain players, either existing guys or kids coming up via the draft. Once that happens they lose all objectivity. No one is good , therefore their FAV is the only one to fill the hole. Whether there is a hole or not.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 04:02 PM
I don't think McGahee can be counted on as much as he used to be. Fumble problems tend to be the sign of a back nearing the end. To me Jackson isn't a gret option for our starter. This isn't 2008 and unlike McGahee who split caries and wasn't a big contributor for a few season, Jackson has played a lot and run a lot of plays. His best days have passed.

We need to draft a guy and avoid the older former star with diminishing ability trap and build up someone young and talented

Other than the generalization of fumbles tend to be a sign of a back needing the end, the rest of the post is spot on.

Lots of young RBs that can step in and start or play lots of minutes spelling the old man.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 04:07 PM
1) rotation as normal just put bannan as back.

2) I was suggesting altering the starting line up not saying play them the whole game.

3) who already sets the edge on dumervilles side. .?

This is a passing league . We can add pass rush with this line up IMO with out degrading our run defense

HorseHead
12-05-2012, 04:25 PM
You can find a good back just about anywhere these days...

I wonder if it was Shanny or Bruce Allen who picked up on Alfred Morris...

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 04:34 PM
You can find a good back just about anywhere these days...

I wonder if it was Shanny or Bruce Allen who picked up on Alfred Morris...

Neither.

Bobby Turner, for sure.

TheReverend
12-05-2012, 04:35 PM
1) rotation as normal just put bannan as back.

2) I was suggesting altering the starting line up not saying play them the whole game.

3) who already sets the edge on dumervilles side. .?

This is a passing league . We can add pass rush with this line up IMO with out degrading our run defense

WLB have that outside gap in base. Responsibilities flop from over vs under and base though.

Edit: There's a good chance your question is rhetorical and you really don't care to know...

Bmore Manning
12-05-2012, 04:37 PM
If you want veterans who would be affordable and impact full..

Austin Colie for the slot...Experience with Manning, dynamic when healthy.

Steven Jackson... Great in pass protection, great catching out of the backfield, hard strong runner.

Larry Grant at MLB... Would start if he wasn't behind Willis and Bowman, he's a relatively unknown stud.

ZONA
12-05-2012, 05:20 PM
My thoughts on just a few of the spots:


* Sign Clady - no way do you let this guy go or franchise him. Spend the summer, get a deal done that both parties like.

* Give Miller a nice bonus - he frickin deserves it.

* They can do new deals for Vickerson, Unrien and Bannan but the latter two need to be on the very cheap. Vickerson you can pay starter money to but nothing outrageous.

* Warren - possibly the biggest tough decision of the offseason. You can't dismiss what a beast he when healthy. Before injury he was he was throwing guys around with ease. But he can't stay healthy. It's a roll of the dice. I think you try to bring another big named DT in but if you can't, you might have to sign this guy again, but you have to put some clauses in there concerning injury and it has to be a short term deal, maybe 1 or 2 years.

* DJ - not sure what they did with his contract. I think the risk of keeping him is low because he's got 1 more strike and he's done. I'm sure he knows this and can't afford to mess around like in the past. He's not going to take Woodyard's position so he's got to establish himself as the MLB or he's most likely gone. I like Trev off the bench but I'm so done with Irving.

* Porter - I don't see him wanting to stay on bench. He's a nice corner, you'd like to keep him along with Bolden as back up CB.

* Koppen and Stokley - both should want to return on the cheap. Good insurance policy. Both are playing well.

* Brooking - he's done. I think he's eligible for social security next year, haha.

* Bruton - you love his ST play. Keep him, decent back up and is solid role player.

Beadles - probably the only guy on the starting OL I would like to replace.

RB - we gotta address this either FA or draft. We've got to get a premier threat.

Inkana7
12-05-2012, 06:01 PM
* DJ - not sure what they did with his contract. I think the risk of keeping him is low because he's got 1 more strike and he's done. I'm sure he knows this and can't afford to mess around like in the past. He's not going to take Woodyard's position so he's got to establish himself as the MLB or he's most likely gone. I like Trev off the bench but I'm so done with Irving.


Why are you "so done" with one of our best STers and a guy who has played pretty well when playing with the defense? Irving's development has been one of the most pleasantly surprising things to watch this season.

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 06:13 PM
Honestly, don't most NFL teams have a defensive end that gets 8-10 sacks per year? Sure, they do cost a lot at contract time, but many of those players are also better at run defense than Elvis (which got his contract as a 17 sack 3-4 OLB).

Don't get me wrong, I hope Elvis retires a Bronco and I love him, but if you are asking me to make a business decision - i'd probably see if I could trade him. I'm not sure about all his contract details, but I thought he was still scheduled to make about $12 mil next year. If you could free up that cash + get maybe a second rounder, you could possibly net three starters in the process (MLB, DT, DE - take your pick).

Why would you get rid of Doom? That makes no sense whatsoever. He leads the NFL in forcing fumbles. He has 8 sacks and he has to compete with Miller every play to get those sacks. He is worth the money.

Listen guys people talking abouut signing any FA players but cutting Doom or not re-signing Clady are totally off base.

Sign your own players and build through the draft. I would be totally happy if Denver does this and do not sign one FA this offseason. Denver already has a good young core group of players. Bringing in overpriced FAs is not neccessary.

Atwater His Ass
12-05-2012, 06:18 PM
Keep DJ if they did a team friendly deal. Just don't count on him being a reliable starter for the entire season. MLB should still be addressed.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 06:21 PM
1) rotation as normal just put bannan as back.

2) I was suggesting altering the starting line up not saying play them the whole game.

3) who already sets the edge on dumervilles side. .?

This is a passing league . We can add pass rush with this line up IMO with out degrading our run defense

Yet this passing league we have been run on a couple of times. When that happens it keeps Manning on the sidelines.

Right now when doom is no one sets the edge.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 06:22 PM
You can find a good back just about anywhere these days...

I wonder if it was Shanny or Bruce Allen who picked up on Alfred Morris...

Probably Bobby. He seems to have a nose for RBs.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 06:34 PM
Yet this passing league we have been run on a couple of times. When that happens it keeps Manning on the sidelines.

Right now when doom is no one sets the edge.

Team is built to play from ahead. If the offense can sustain opening drives and quit shooting them selves in the foot we won't have to worry about the run. You're still missing the point of what I'm suggesting. We will not be any worse off against the run with that line up. We will how ever slightly increase the pass rush .

@ rev it was rhetorical It seems like lonestar was suggesting bench doom in base sets because he can't set the edge.

But obviously dooms pass rush presence and contract warrants he's on the field as much as possible. With his quickness and effort he's a good chase and tackle player also witty enough to recognize screens and draws

lonestar
12-05-2012, 08:28 PM
Team is built to play from ahead. If the offense can sustain opening drives and quit shooting them selves in the foot we won't have to worry about the run. You're still missing the point of what I'm suggesting. We will not be any worse off against the run with that line up. We will how ever slightly increase the pass rush .

@ rev it was rhetorical It seems like lonestar was suggesting bench doom in base sets because he can't set the edge.

But obviously dooms pass rush presence and contract warrants he's on the field as much as possible. With his quickness and effort he's a good chase and tackle player also witty enough to recognize screens and draws

Yes right now it is built for BIG leads. But so far the offense has fizzled most of the year so Teams are indeed running on us taking time away from Manning to score. You also act like the O has scored so many points. Your failing to see the D and ST have put a lot of points on the scoreboard. That is not going happen in the playoffs against really good teams like those that spanked us big time early in the year.

Now is this team good enough to win regular season games against weak teams absolutely a lot like Mikey's teams. The real question is will they fold in the playoffs like his teams did also.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 08:36 PM
Yes right now it is built for BIG leads. But so far the offense has fizzled most of the year so Teams are indeed running on us taking time away from Manning to score. You also act like the O has scored so many points. Your failing to see the D and ST have put a lot of points on the scoreboard. That is not going happen in the playoffs against really good teams like those that spanked us big time early in the year.

Now is this team good enough to win regular season games against weak teams absolutely a lot like Mikey's teams. The real question is will they fold in the playoffs like his teams did also.

So wat are you saying.? First round playoff exit basically

pricejj
12-05-2012, 09:36 PM
I think this is a fairly narrow view. I'd rather have someone younger and a bit more of a gamebreaker than McGahee.

Okay, who do you know who the Broncos could get who is better than McGahee, who is the 11th best running back in the NFL, was a ProBowler in 2011, and was having a great year on pace to break 1200 this year?

I seriously doubt any of the RB's in this draft or Free Agency class are good as McGahee in 2013.

The Broncos are set up to go BPA throughout the draft. If there is an RB who is actually the BPA, when we pick, by all means pick him. I don't see that happening until the 3rd round at the earliest. An RB like that is a replacement for Lance Ball...not McGahee.

Resources are limited, and I can name about 8 other starters on the team that are not playing anywhere close to a Probowl level, who could easily be replaced with a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 09:46 PM
Okay, who do you know who the Broncos could get who is better than McGahee, who is the 11th best running back in the NFL, and was having a great year, on pace to break 1200?

I seriously doubt any of the RB's in this draft or Free Agency class are good as McGahee in 2013.

The Broncos are set up to go BPA throughout the draft. If there is an RB who is actually the BPA, when we pick, by all means pick him. I don't see that happening until the 3rd round at the earliest. An RB like that is a replacement for Lance Ball...not McGahee.

I say build through the draft. Denver has Fannin and Johnson and Hillman who are all young. They can draft anbother back next year and them along with Moreno and McGahee can fight it out like usual. No sense going into FA and over paying for a RB that is nearing 30.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 10:13 PM
I say build through the draft. Denver has Fannin and Johnson and Hillman who are all young. They can draft anbother back next year and them along with Moreno and McGahee can fight it out like usual. No sense going into FA and over paying for a RB that is nearing 30.

There are going to be some pretty sweet DT's, ILB's, and Safeties available when we pick in the 1st round.

It would be highly more productive to strengthen the middle of the Defense, or draft a playmaking WR, than to draft a slow RB in the 1st or 2nd round.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 10:23 PM
So wat are you saying.? First round playoff exit basically

Unless the O steps up big time and that means OUR running game can be counted on to HELP keep Manning on the field, it has to score every time we have our hands on the ball.

We have some great players one deep over most of the team. But almost zero depth of quality guys.

Just like Mikey's smoke and mirrors offense, we can be beat if we do not out score those teams early and force them into a pass only offense where our dogs can hunt.

We have the potential but may lack the depth to sustain it all the way.
I have always believed we were one more year away from having all the pieces we need to get there.

With Johns great Track record so far in aquirring off season talent I think it is time for all the marbles next year and couple more after that. As long as we do not go crazy and load up on two year rentals over building even better via the draft and younger talent that will push existing starters to higher levels.

That is what I see.

Not quite enough horsepower this year..

pricejj
12-05-2012, 10:25 PM
Dudes who could be seriously upgraded with high draft picks:
1. Mike Adams
2. Keith Brooking
3. Bannan/Unrein/Siliga
4. Brandon Stokley

lonestar
12-05-2012, 10:29 PM
I say build through the draft. Denver has Fannin and Johnson and Hillman who are all young. They can draft anbother back next year and them along with Moreno and McGahee can fight it out like usual. No sense going into FA and over paying for a RB that is nearing 30.

On this we agree. I like Price think we are getting very near that spot where we go BPA in the draft regardless of any minor holes we have to fill. There are always UFA that can close most of those holes for a few years much like Brooking, MaGahee and Stokely have done so far.

None of those players are bank busters. But playing at a very high level to help us. Soon those behind them will be able to step up and take over for them and allow them to do spot duty in relief.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 10:41 PM
Dudes who could be seriously upgraded with high draft picks:
1. Mike Adams
2. Keith Brooking
3. Bannan/Unrein/Siliga
4. Brandon Stokley

I beleive that Carter is your safety guy or that is what I have heard.

Brooking yep he is very long in the tooth we need a true 3 down guy there. It would be Great to find an Urlacker type, but I'd rather have another stud in front of a second tier type guy there if I had to choose.

Yes DT is still IMO a hole to fill and the more studs we have there the better. The NYG have had good succes just pluging in 4 good DEs in there but they got exposed because they do not have BIGGIE guy there the other night by WAS.

I have always believed that the better your LOS guys (both sides of the ball) are the better the guys behind them are.

You can get away with slightly lesser talents behind great LOS players.. I'm not saying 7th round talent but they do not all have to be day one picks.

Not sure about Stokely I think they will have take him out in a hearse before some kiddie beats him out. would be nice to have game breaker there but I'd rather have that sly old vet that gets you the first down every time you have to have one.

But pretty good list overall.

ZONA
12-05-2012, 10:45 PM
Why are you "so done" with one of our best STers and a guy who has played pretty well when playing with the defense? Irving's development has been one of the most pleasantly surprising things to watch this season.

You must favor the guy or something. He's NOT been developing, that's the problem. He was drafted 2 years ago with the 67th pick. He now proudly is 4th on the depth chart at MLB, behind a guy who's been on suspension, another guy who is older then dirt, and another guy who was a 6th round rookie. How is that making progress to you? I saw him in preseason and he was lost out there. Sure he plays decent special teams but he's not some light out special teams player where you keep a guy just for that role. Irving is simply a bust at this point. Not every guy drafted can be the answer. He clearly is not. I'd rather move him and draft another guy and see what they can do.

Inkana7
12-05-2012, 10:57 PM
You must favor the guy or something. He's NOT been developing, that's the problem. He was drafted 2 years ago with the 67th pick. He now proudly is 4th on the depth chart at MLB, behind a guy who's been on suspension, another guy who is older then dirt, and another guy who was a 6th round rookie. How is that making progress to you? I saw him in preseason and he was lost out there. Sure he plays decent special teams but he's not some light out special teams player where you keep a guy just for that role. Irving is simply a bust at this point. Not every guy drafted can be the answer. He clearly is not. I'd rather move him and draft another guy and see what they can do.

I have no idea where you're coming from with this, but I hope it's not another case of Moreno Syndrome where just because a guy is drafted kind of high, if he doesn't become a star he gets **** on.

First of all, he's the backup SLB, not 4th string MLB, and despite playing behind Von Miller, he actually gets on the field and has played pretty well, defending a pass and making some nice tackles in the run game.

I really don't care how he played in preseason. You know who else looked crappy in preseason? Tony Carter!

"Decent" special teams? I don't have the stats, but I'd bet that he's one of our top-5 ST tacklers, he's blocked a punt, and he's a good coverage guy on the punt team. He's an outstanding cog in a good ST unit.

Hardly a bust. Will he ever start? Who cares, he's an important part of this team. If you expect a starter from every draft pick you'll always be disappointed.

pricejj
12-05-2012, 11:01 PM
I beleive that Carter is your safety guy or that is what I have heard.

I don't know how effective he'll be with micro-fracture surgery. Not that he was an elite talent before the injury. We'll see.

Brooking yep he is very long in the tooth we need a true 3 down guy there. It would be Great to find an Urlacker type, but I'd rather have another stud in front of a second tier type guy there if I had to choose.

Ogletree is a playmaker, but looked tentative at times vs. Alabama.

Yes DT is still IMO a hole to fill and the more studs we have there the better. The NYG have had good succes just pluging in 4 good DEs in there but they got exposed because they do not have BIGGIE guy there the other night by WAS.

Can't argue with Kawann Short's production. You won't find better than that at the bottom of the 1st round, no matter what year you're picking.


Not sure about Stokely I think they will have take him out in a hearse before some kiddie beats him out. would be nice to have game breaker there but I'd rather have that sly old vet that gets you the first down every time you have to have one.

Ok, keep Stokley, and draft this guy too. Tayvon...holy cow. Probably go top 20.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TxzPryPMB74?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lonestar
12-05-2012, 11:02 PM
I have no idea where you're coming from with this, but I hope it's not another case of Moreno Syndrome where just because a guy is drafted kind of high, if he doesn't become a star he gets **** on.

First of all, he's the backup SLB, not 4th string MLB, and despite playing behind Von Miller, he actually gets on the field and has played pretty well, defending a pass and making some nice tackles in the run game.

I really don't care how he played in preseason. You know who else looked crappy in preseason? Tony Carter!

"Decent" special teams? I don't have the stats, but I'd bet that he's one of our top-5 ST tacklers, he's blocked a punt, and he's a good coverage guy on the punt team. He's an outstanding cog in a good ST unit.

Hardly a bust. Will he ever start? Who cares, he's an important part of this team. If you expect a starter from every draft pick you'll always be disappointed.

:thumbs: way to logical for some to get. Keep posting.

lonestar
12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
I don't know how effective he'll be with micro-fracture surgery. Not that he was an elite talent before the injury. We'll see.



Ogletree is a playmaker, but looked tentative at times vs. Alabama.



Can't argue with Kawann Short's production. You won't find better than that at the bottom of the 1st round, no matter what year your picking.




Ok, keep Stokley, and draft this guy too. Tayvon...holy cow. Probably go top 20.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TxzPryPMB74?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ogle tree is what he is. OK. as you said I was not impressed anytime I have seen him. Just not in the same zip code as the kid from ND.

As for any player that will not be there before 25 or so I'm not wasting my time talking about. IIRC Wilson was #32 when we took him. If there is a DT worth a crap there I'd rather get one instead.

g6matty
12-05-2012, 11:27 PM
John fox track record when drafting linebackers is amazing. Anytime we draft one we should rest assured the guy is a baller. I'm not gonna go research it now at 2:30 am but if we can get a John beason type next to Von and dj/woodyard/trevathon we have ourselves a crowded lb corps. How will we get all these guys on the field? It will be hard to

Bacchus
12-05-2012, 11:35 PM
There are going to be some pretty sweet DT's, ILB's, and Safeties available when we pick in the 1st round.

It would be highly more productive to strengthen the middle of the Defense, or draft a playmaking WR, than to draft a slow RB in the 1st or 2nd round.

I agree you can draft a RB in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round.

2KBack
12-06-2012, 04:49 AM
Unless the O steps up big time and that means OUR running game can be counted on to HELP keep Manning on the field, it has to score every time we have our hands on the ball.

We have some great players one deep over most of the team. But almost zero depth of quality guys.

Just like Mikey's smoke and mirrors offense, we can be beat if we do not out score those teams early and force them into a pass only offense where our dogs can hunt.

We have the potential but may lack the depth to sustain it all the way.
I have always believed we were one more year away from having all the pieces we need to get there.

With Johns great Track record so far in aquirring off season talent I think it is time for all the marbles next year and couple more after that. As long as we do not go crazy and load up on two year rentals over building even better via the draft and younger talent that will push existing starters to higher levels.

That is what I see.

Not quite enough horsepower this year..

http://boxofficeboredom.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/RandyQuaidXOut-150x150.jpg

"They'll Blow it in the playoffs"

TonyR
12-06-2012, 06:41 AM
Okay, who do you know who the Broncos could get who is better than McGahee, who is the 11th best running back in the NFL, was a ProBowler in 2011, and was having a great year on pace to break 1200 this year?

I seriously doubt any of the RB's in this draft or Free Agency class are good as McGahee in 2013.

I like McGahee, but this team really needs to go into 2013 with a better/younger primary back. But admittedly I don't know who that is or where/how they get him. But they have to and I think they'll try.

socalorado
12-06-2012, 07:18 AM
I like McGahee, but this team really needs to go into 2013 with a better/younger primary back. But admittedly I don't know who that is or where/how they get him. But they have to and I think they'll try.

Stephan Taylor RB Stanford

11/30/12 - PLAYERS TO WATCH: RB Stepfan Taylor is averaging 113.7 rushing yards a game, and he had 114, 161 and 142 yards rushing in the critical victories over ranked opponents Oregon State, Oregon and UCLA in the three previous games. He is second on the team in receptions with 32, and is an excellent pass-blocker. Taylor was named second-team all-Pac-12 for the second straight season. Even though he would become Stanford's career rushing leader if he gains 36 yards in the Pac-12 title game, he will leave without ever being a first-team all-conference pick. - The Sports
Xchange
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89803&draftyear=2013&genpos=RB

Taylor can do everything well, and should be sitting there in the 3rd.
DEN might have to move up into the bottom of the 2nd to get him though.

Mike Gillislee RB Florida

11/26/12 - WEEK 13 SEC CO-OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE WEEK: Mike Gillislee, Running Back, Florida, Sr., DeLand, Fla.,...Gillislee rushed for 140 yards and two touchdowns on 24 carries in Florida’s 37-26 win at Florida State. His 37-yard run in the fourth quarter put the Gators ahead to stay, 23-20. Gillislee becomes the first Gator to rush for more than 1,000 yards since Ciatrick Fason in 2004. - SEC football
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89581&draftyear=2013&genpos=RB

11/3/12: Gillislee has been having a superb senior season for the Gators. He's averaged 4.5 yards per carry with 729 yards and seven touchdowns. Gillislee played hurt and helped push Florida to a tough road win against Teas A&M. He had impressive games against Tennessee, Bowling Green and LSU. The senior has speed and deceptive power.

Gillislee has been very impressive as a blocker in blitz protection. He has really helped his draft stock this year.

Should be there in the 3rd round. Excellent playmaker.
Either guy would be a perfect weapon for a Manning-led offense.

lonestar
12-06-2012, 08:21 AM
Stephan Taylor RB Stanford

11/30/12 - PLAYERS TO WATCH: RB Stepfan Taylor is averaging 113.7 rushing yards a game, and he had 114, 161 and 142 yards rushing in the critical victories over ranked opponents Oregon State, Oregon and UCLA in the three previous games. He is second on the team in receptions with 32, and is an excellent pass-blocker. Taylor was named second-team all-Pac-12 for the second straight season. Even though he would become Stanford's career rushing leader if he gains 36 yards in the Pac-12 title game, he will leave without ever being a first-team all-conference pick. - The Sports
Xchange
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89803&draftyear=2013&genpos=RB

Taylor can do everything well, and should be sitting there in the 3rd.
DEN might have to move up into the bottom of the 2nd to get him though.

Mike Gillislee RB Florida

11/26/12 - WEEK 13 SEC CO-OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE WEEK: Mike Gillislee, Running Back, Florida, Sr., DeLand, Fla.,...Gillislee rushed for 140 yards and two touchdowns on 24 carries in Florida’s 37-26 win at Florida State. His 37-yard run in the fourth quarter put the Gators ahead to stay, 23-20. Gillislee becomes the first Gator to rush for more than 1,000 yards since Ciatrick Fason in 2004. - SEC football
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89581&draftyear=2013&genpos=RB

11/3/12: Gillislee has been having a superb senior season for the Gators. He's averaged 4.5 yards per carry with 729 yards and seven touchdowns. Gillislee played hurt and helped push Florida to a tough road win against Teas A&M. He had impressive games against Tennessee, Bowling Green and LSU. The senior has speed and deceptive power.

Gillislee has been very impressive as a blocker in blitz protection. He has really helped his draft stock this year.

Should be there in the 3rd round. Excellent playmaker.
Either guy would be a perfect weapon for a Manning-led offense.

Thanks for the info on them, if they are not 220+ and over 235 would be better I'm not interested in taking a guy that will most likely be out of the NFL in 3-4 years. There are plenty of these light weights in rounds 4-7 to be had.

I'm not wasting a top pick on one unless they have better chance at staying power in the big bad NFL.

Would rather use those top picks on a position that could be anchor of the team for a decade or more. Give me quality OL, DL, LB or DB anytime over a 3 year wonder that takes a beating every play. Odds are a RB will not be a difference maker next year with Merino, Willis and Hillman back there.

CEH
12-06-2012, 08:32 AM
I know he's had injury issues but a player in the mold of DeMarco Murray would be a guy I'd look at in the draft. Isn't he like 225? and a 3rd round pick

socalorado
12-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Thanks for the info on them, if they are not 220+ and over 235 would be better I'm not interested in taking a guy that will most likely be out of the NFL in 3-4 years. There are plenty of these light weights in rounds 4-7 to be had.

I'm not wasting a top pick on one unless they have better chance at staying power in the big bad NFL.

Would rather use those top picks on a position that could be anchor of the team for a decade or more. Give me quality OL, DL, LB or DB anytime over a 3 year wonder that takes a beating every play. Odds are a RB will not be a difference maker next year with Merino, Willis and Hillman back there.

Your assumption that backs that are 208-210 lbs dont last is not factual.
Also, these backs dont take a beating every play.
"I am not wasting a pick" Huh!?!? You are not wasting picks, cause your not making the picks! L.OL!

g6matty
12-06-2012, 11:43 AM
stepfan taylor runs in the 4,5 4,6 range google is telling me.

Cito Pelon
12-06-2012, 11:45 AM
Well, SOMEBODY will offer Clady a big contract, maybe San Diego, Chicago. Who knows what Elway will do. It's clear Clady wants top 2-3 money, and down the road as team revenue/salary cap increases is the signing bonus paid out really that big of a deal?

The alternative is draft another LT high but with the cheaper rookie contract, then what? Draft another LT high 5 years down the road?

Seems like it's better to go ahead and suck it up and pay Clady now, not have to spend high draft choices at LT.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Well, SOMEBODY will offer Clady a big contract, maybe San Diego, Chicago. Who knows what Elway will do. It's clear Clady wants top 2-3 money, and down the road as team revenue/salary cap increases is the signing bonus paid out really that big of a deal?

The alternative is draft another LT high but with the cheaper rookie contract, then what? Draft another LT high 5 years down the road?

Seems like it's better to go ahead and suck it up and pay Clady now, not have to spend high draft choices at LT.

They will franchise him

Requiem
12-06-2012, 12:07 PM
Your assumption that backs that are 208-210 lbs dont last is not factual.
Also, these backs dont take a beating every play.
"I am not wasting a pick" Huh!?!? You are not wasting picks, cause your not making the picks! L.OL!

Just realize you are talking to a dude who said Elvis Dumervil and Ryan Clady weren't going to be successful because they were "small conference" prospects. He also loved Peyton Hillis.

swaiy
12-06-2012, 12:15 PM
Irving isnt a bad LB. When he came in for Miller I recall him making some plays a few times this season. In a realistic world, not all backups are stars waiting in the wings. The guy is awesome on ST and even though he cant pass rush like Von, he is decent depth. Some of you guys are nuts.

Tombstone RJ
12-06-2012, 01:08 PM
This is the way I see what the Broncos needs are in 2013, first to last:

1. Inside LBer
2. Oline (interior, esp. with Kuper's health)
3. RB
4. Dline (interior)
5. Secondary

I'd prefer the Broncos focus on LBer and RB and maybe secondary in the draft, while the Broncos bring in FA help on the oline and dline. But that of course is easier said than done.

Cito Pelon
12-06-2012, 01:26 PM
The running game on O needs some help if you go by the current stats. 3.8 YPA and 6 rushing TD's so far. That's about 24th-28th in the League. How much of that is interior OL and how much is the RB's I don't know. Probably both. Maybe some of it has to do with Peyton audibling poorly also, I don't know.

pricejj
12-06-2012, 01:37 PM
The running game on O needs some help if you go by the current stats. 3.8 YPA and 6 rushing TD's so far. That's about 24th-28th in the League. How much of that is interior OL and how much is the RB's I don't know. Probably both. Maybe some of it has to do with Peyton audibling poorly also, I don't know.

Should be able to find out tonight. The Raiders have the 28th overall rushing Defense in the NFL...and the Broncos have been focusing heavily on the run game this week (per Manning).

Will be nice to see if the added work paid off.

g6matty
12-06-2012, 01:39 PM
This is the way I see what the Broncos needs are in 2013, first to last:

1. Inside LBer
2. Oline (interior, esp. with Kuper's health)
3. RB
4. Dline (interior)
5. Secondary

I'd prefer the Broncos focus on LBer and RB and maybe secondary in the draft, while the Broncos bring in FA help on the oline and dline. But that of course is easier said than done.

WR

Tombstone RJ
12-06-2012, 01:42 PM
WR

I don't see that as a top 5 need but ok.

DivineLegion
12-06-2012, 01:45 PM
WR

Conor Vernon, Duke


Coach Cut prodigy (aka ties to Manning), sure hands, great speed, looks like Ed McCaffery, awesome!

I'm not 100% sure where Vernon is going to be selected, but if he's available after the third round the Broncos would be set at WR for the next 6 years. Play Vernon outside, and move Decker into the slot.

g6matty
12-06-2012, 01:49 PM
Tombstone who plays if DT or decker goes down? Willis or Caldwell lol. D Andre Hopkins or Kenny stills would be niiiiiice to groom

Tombstone RJ
12-06-2012, 01:53 PM
Tombstone who plays if DT or decker goes down? Willis or Caldwell lol. D Andre Hopkins or Kenny stills would be niiiiiice to groom

You're welcome to make your own list. I think if either DT or Decker goes down Manning relys more on the TEs in the passing game, but what the hell do I know, right?

socalorado
12-06-2012, 02:41 PM
Just realize you are talking to a dude who said Elvis Dumervil and Ryan Clady weren't going to be successful because they were "small conference" prospects. He also loved Peyton Hillis.

Oh, i know!
I just love the "I" and "we" when referring to the DEN FO as if hes in the corner office at Dove Valley.

Requiem
12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
well he juSt PSeaks the fACts about teh draft and mikey DooDle.

lonestar
12-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Oh, i know!
I just love the "I" and "we" when referring to the DEN FO as if hes in the corner office at Dove Valley.

Since when is being a long term fan a bad thing.

I make no allusions that I have an office there, but can equate to his being a business man.

But I also know that while John wants to win he has budget to meet whether it be the league wide imposed cap or Pats budget, he has to stay within those constraints. He also has to plan for more than just this year in aquirring talent. Loading up with everyone getting 7-15 million a year contracts flat does not work.

Unlike many here that from they way they post and act like we have to have pro bowlers at every spot, I doubt most of them can even balance their own check books and a lot of them are in credit card hell because they do not have a budget.

as for dream boi and his potshot posts.

Sure I liked Hillis thought he should have been kept, Clady turned out to be IMO a good OLT certainy not a top five player that he thinks he should make. And doom yep a great pass rush guy but pretty much remains a one trick pony. Certainly not worth the money they threw at him. He is great as apass rushing did but some time in the near future excision will have to be made him or miller who is a complete player.

Perhaps doom will become one and he has improved but still not earning that money he was paid. BTW in a couple of years Wlfe will be needing an new contract. Since he plays almost every down he will be getting a biggie contract also.

Dream needs to crawl back into his banned hole and shut the yap. Fortunately I never see his snipes unless some knucklehead quotes him. (word to the wise).

Requiem
12-06-2012, 03:49 PM
You are a God damn clown.

oubronco
12-06-2012, 04:51 PM
http://jasonbarnard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/god-created-the-clouds-and-clowns.jpg

lonestar
12-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Your assumption that backs that are 208-210 lbs dont last is not factual.
Also, these backs dont take a beating every play.
"I am not wasting a pick" Huh!?!? You are not wasting picks, cause your not making the picks! L.OL!

just how many of these 6'+ 210# backs play most of the snaps all 16 games a year?

then tell me which how many lasted more than 4 years..

2KBack
12-09-2012, 02:24 PM
just how many of these 6'+ 210# backs play most of the snaps all 16 games a year?

then tell me which how many lasted more than 4 years..

Your criteria is flawed, because such things are simply incredibly uncommon. Here is a list of noted RB's in the league and how often they have played all 16 games...

B. Wells: 235lbs....never
M. Turner: 235lbs...once
R. Rice: 200lbs...once
M. Forte: 221lbs...3 times (by far the most, yet has missed several games the last couple seasons)
D. Murray: 213lbs...never
A. Foster: 232lbs...never
MJD: 205lbs...twice
J. Charles: 200lbs...never
R. Bush: 205lbs...never
W. McGahee...Never
AP: 217lbs...never
A. Bradshaw: 200lbs...never
McCoy: 215lbs...never
R. Mathews: 220lbs...never
F. Gore: 215lbs...never
M. Lynch: 215lbs...never
S. Jackson: 229lbs...3 times
C. Johnson: 200lbs...3 times

So as you can see...a RB playing 16 games is an extreme rarity and there is no correlation between the size of the player and how durable they are.

Hamrob
12-09-2012, 02:57 PM
Broncos needs in the 2013 Draft:

1. MLB
2. DT
3. RB
4. WR
5. BPA - Team Depth

I think we need to improve the middle of our defense and start getting more of a push up the middle. Huge issue with our team. That is why NE keeps beating us.

Running back - We have an aging Magahee, and an average Moreno to go along with a scat back in Hillman. We need a #1 all-purpose back that defenses will respect.

WR - We have Stokely, Willis, Caldwell...I give that group collectively a 7 out of 10. This is an area that needs improvement. If we can get a legitimate speed guy to compliment DT, and Decker. Now we're talking!

Some will say the interior of our Oline needs to be addressed. I disagree. I think Kuper and Beadles are very good guards. I also think that with Walton and Blake...we will have a very good center. I think we can try to add depth for comptetion, but I can't see us using a top 3 pick on the interior line.

I think we have good LB depth outside of MLB...which is a huge need. We need a Al Wilson, Gradishar type MLB. And, I think we have very good depth in the secondary...both at CB and Safety. I think we should make resigning Clady a priority and look for a better backup tackle to add to the mix along with Franklin.

winstoncup bronco
12-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Broncos needs in the 2013 Draft:

1. MLB
2. DT
3. RB
4. WR
5. BPA - Team Depth

I think we need to improve the middle of our defense and start getting more of a push up the middle. Huge issue with our team. That is why NE keeps beating us.

Running back - We have an aging Magahee, and an average Moreno to go along with a scat back in Hillman. We need a #1 all-purpose back that defenses will respect.

WR - We have Stokely, Willis, Caldwell...I give that group collectively a 7 out of 10. This is an area that needs improvement. If we can get a legitimate speed guy to compliment DT, and Decker. Now we're talking!

Some will say the interior of our Oline needs to be addressed. I disagree. I think Kuper and Beadles are very good guards. I also think that with Walton and Blake...we will have a very good center. I think we can try to add depth for comptetion, but I can't see us using a top 3 pick on the interior line.

I think we have good LB depth outside of MLB...which is a huge need. We need a Al Wilson, Gradishar type MLB. And, I think we have very good depth in the secondary...both at CB and Safety. I think we should make resigning Clady a priority and look for a better backup tackle to add to the mix along with Franklin.

The only change I would make is to bump WR up one. It seems like DT is taking himself out of the game just about every week because of a tweak. He's been outstanding this year, but I get nervous every week with him. I think anyone we draft is an immediate upgrade over Willis & Caldwell.

Bacchus
12-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Broncos needs in the 2013 Draft:

1. MLB
2. DT
3. RB
4. WR
5. BPA - Team Depth

I think we need to improve the middle of our defense and start getting more of a push up the middle. Huge issue with our team. That is why NE keeps beating us.

Running back - We have an aging Magahee, and an average Moreno to go along with a scat back in Hillman. We need a #1 all-purpose back that defenses will respect.

WR - We have Stokely, Willis, Caldwell...I give that group collectively a 7 out of 10. This is an area that needs improvement. If we can get a legitimate speed guy to compliment DT, and Decker. Now we're talking!

Some will say the interior of our Oline needs to be addressed. I disagree. I think Kuper and Beadles are very good guards. I also think that with Walton and Blake...we will have a very good center. I think we can try to add depth for comptetion, but I can't see us using a top 3 pick on the interior line.

I think we have good LB depth outside of MLB...which is a huge need. We need a Al Wilson, Gradishar type MLB. And, I think we have very good depth in the secondary...both at CB and Safety. I think we should make resigning Clady a priority and look for a better backup tackle to add to the mix along with Franklin.

I would put RB and WR ahead of DT. Denver does not have depth at WR. They need a wide out and a slot. RB needs to be addressed as well.

lonestar
12-09-2012, 04:36 PM
Your criteria is flawed, because such things are simply incredibly uncommon. Here is a list of noted RB's in the league and how often they have played all 16 games...

B. Wells: 235lbs....never
M. Turner: 235lbs...once
R. Rice: 200lbs...once
M. Forte: 221lbs...3 times (by far the most, yet has missed several games the last couple seasons)
D. Murray: 213lbs...never
A. Foster: 232lbs...never
MJD: 205lbs...twice
J. Charles: 200lbs...never
R. Bush: 205lbs...never
W. McGahee...Never
AP: 217lbs...never
A. Bradshaw: 200lbs...never
McCoy: 215lbs...never
R. Mathews: 220lbs...never
F. Gore: 215lbs...never
M. Lynch: 215lbs...never
S. Jackson: 229lbs...3 times
C. Johnson: 200lbs...3 times

So as you can see...a RB playing 16 games is an extreme rarity and there is no correlation between the size of the player and how durable they are.

So if I'm counting correctly. There are 7 16 games seasons for RB over 220. Vs r for those under 220.

I'll take those odds of 7 over 4 anyday.

As I have said repeatedly I want a 220+pound running back for my primary guy anyday ofthe week. I DO NOT CARE if they do not have take it to the house speed although at 229 Jackson would be the guy if you could clone him.

Thanks for the research IMO proves my point.

lonestar
12-09-2012, 04:44 PM
I would put RB and WR ahead of DT. Denver does not have depth at WR. They need a wide out and a slot. RB needs to be addressed as well.

Rarely drafting a WR has been a great bet for immediate help. More often than not they flake on the drafting team because expectations are so high for round 1-2 guy or they take 3-4 years to become worth a crap.

Very few megatrons or fiztgeralds out there.

Myself if we never draft another WR again and get out guys via UFA is ok by me.

I beleive we have already used all the law of averages up in getting DT and Decker. We will have to go through a bunch of draft choices together back on track.

Remember that almost any good route running average WR out there will become a much better WR with Manning tossing him the ball. IMO

Shananahan
12-09-2012, 05:06 PM
So if I'm counting correctly. There are 7 16 games seasons for RB over 220. Vs r for those under 220.

I'll take those odds of 7 over 4 anyday.
I see statistics is a strong suit for you.

CEH
12-09-2012, 05:26 PM
Rarely drafting a WR has been a great bet for immediate help. More often than not they flake on the drafting team because expectations are so high for round 1-2 guy or they take 3-4 years to become worth a crap.

Very few megatrons or fiztgeralds out there.

Myself if we never draft another WR again and get out guys via UFA is ok by me.

I beleive we have already used all the law of averages up in getting DT and Decker. We will have to go through a bunch of draft choices together back on track.

Remember that almost any good route running average WR out there will become a much better WR with Manning tossing him the ball. IMO

I'd love a WR like Randall Cobb type in the draft to play with PMF. Stoke won't last forever

lonestar
12-09-2012, 07:15 PM
I'd love a WR like Randall Cobb type in the draft to play with PMF. Stoke won't last forever

Only if he is the BPA and a fourth or later and given a couple of years to develop. As for stokes. Think he will be hear till Manning retires unless some young buck beats him out.
He is just a sneaky slot that can really get open.

lonestar
12-09-2012, 07:23 PM
I see statistics is a strong suit for you.

While they are not everything they certainly give you a better idea of the direction we should go.

The likely hood of us taking a RB on day one is slim unless he is the BPA.
Even then if it is a close call over a true DT/NT, MLB or sure fire OL guy, I think they go with one of them Instead of a RB.

I know loads of folks on OM think that MaGahee is on his death bed but for the amount of running that PM wants to do he will be sufficient for a few years left.

Everyone wants flash, that is not John Fox or IMO John Elway. They know having a work horse is what this team needs not a home run hitter. Now if they can find another Steven Jackson in the 3-4 rounds maybe. But what are the odds.

Hamrob
12-09-2012, 08:30 PM
While they are not everything they certainly give you a better idea of the direction we should go.

The likely hood of us taking a RB on day one is slim unless he is the BPA.
Even then if it is a close call over a true DT/NT, MLB or sure fire OL guy, I think they go with one of them Instead of a RB.

I know loads of folks on OM think that MaGahee is on his death bed but for the amount of running that PM wants to do he will be sufficient for a few years left.

Everyone wants flash, that is not John Fox or IMO John Elway. They know having a work horse is what this team needs not a home run hitter. Now if they can find another Steven Jackson in the 3-4 rounds maybe. But what are the odds.Dude...Magahee was not sufficient this year....obviously!

Manning....not UNLIKE Elway needs a running game at this stage of his career. The average backs we have are not going to cut it. Martin sure does look nice right about now!

24champ
12-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Since when is being a long term fan a bad thing.

I make no allusions that I have an office there, but can equate to his being a business man.

But I also know that while John wants to win he has budget to meet whether it be the league wide imposed cap or Pats budget, he has to stay within those constraints. He also has to plan for more than just this year in aquirring talent. Loading up with everyone getting 7-15 million a year contracts flat does not work.

Unlike many here that from they way they post and act like we have to have pro bowlers at every spot, I doubt most of them can even balance their own check books and a lot of them are in credit card hell because they do not have a budget.

as for dream boi and his potshot posts.

Sure I liked Hillis thought he should have been kept, Clady turned out to be IMO a good OLT certainy not a top five player that he thinks he should make. And doom yep a great pass rush guy but pretty much remains a one trick pony. Certainly not worth the money they threw at him. He is great as apass rushing did but some time in the near future excision will have to be made him or miller who is a complete player.

Perhaps doom will become one and he has improved but still not earning that money he was paid. BTW in a couple of years Wlfe will be needing an new contract. Since he plays almost every down he will be getting a biggie contract also.

Dream needs to crawl back into his banned hole and shut the yap. Fortunately I never see his snipes unless some knucklehead quotes him. (word to the wise).

You talk about balancing checkbooks and you have wanted to give a current player that just signed an extension, another raise!

lonestar
12-09-2012, 10:04 PM
Dude...Magahee was not sufficient this year....obviously!

Manning....not UNLIKE Elway needs a running game at this stage of his career. The average backs we have are not going to cut it. Martin sure does look nice right about now!

We will have to agree to disagree. Setting at 10-3 with none of those 3 losses coming because of lack of a running game but because of a new scheme and lots of newbie players and manning not playing well early in those games. Had some chance s to come back in all three but just to far behind to catch up.

Would I love to have a Steve Jackson RB absolutely but not at the expense of getting the other deeper needs filled first.

lonestar
12-09-2012, 10:09 PM
You talk about balancing checkbooks and you have wanted to give a current player that just signed an extension, another raise!

Yes I'm not lacking about bumping his cap number to what dumb ass was making just more than he is now.

Kind of tells player that exceed their contracts they will be taken care of.

He has a real shot at a pro bowl, because he busted his ass to improve and take the job away from dumb ass.

Again not asking about 7.7 mil like the moron would have made. Considering lots on here want to make Clady a top five cap guy when his play has been average well, unlike them I beleive in rewarding those that earn it.

swaiy
12-09-2012, 10:17 PM
While some of you have said things that make sense, there are others, that I wake up and thank God they are nowhere near the Front Office.

Some of y'all need to stop huffing. Seriously.

BroncoMan4ever
12-09-2012, 10:21 PM
I would put RB and WR ahead of DT. Denver does not have depth at WR. They need a wide out and a slot. RB needs to be addressed as well.

In the case of WR it is not a position we absolutely need to take a first rounder or drop a lot of coin in free agency for. The beauty of a Peyton Manning is he makes decent receivers look great. A good slot guy would be nice though.

CEH
12-10-2012, 02:56 AM
Only if he is the BPA and a fourth or later and given a couple of years to develop. As for stokes. Think he will be hear till Manning retires unless some young buck beats him out.
He is just a sneaky slot that can really get open.

Randall Cobb would beat Stoke out every day and twice on Sunday. 4th or later no way. A late 2nd for a Cobb type would be a slam dunk.

McCarthy says he can't get the ball enough times to Cobb

fontaine
12-10-2012, 03:13 AM
If you want veterans who would be affordable and impact full..

Austin Colie for the slot...Experience with Manning, dynamic when healthy.

Steven Jackson... Great in pass protection, great catching out of the backfield, hard strong runner.

Larry Grant at MLB... Would start if he wasn't behind Willis and Bowman, he's a relatively unknown stud.

I love this post. Add in someone like Glenn Dorsey or a replacement for Ty Warren and the offseason will be complete.

BPA in the draft then.

Bmore Manning
12-10-2012, 04:12 AM
I love this post. Add in someone like Glenn Dorsey or a replacement for Ty Warren and the offseason will be complete.

BPA in the draft then.

I'm glad someone who analyzes and breaks down players/film like you, appreciates my suggestions! I thought everyone had me on ignore cause I posted that twice in here and nobody said anything..but the first time I believe I said Dorsey or Branch at DT. Then it would be a truly flexible draft!

Do you think Wolfe plays inside next year, or they keep him in a similar role?

fontaine
12-10-2012, 05:06 AM
I'm glad someone who analyzes and breaks down players/film like you, appreciates my suggestions! I thought everyone had me on ignore cause I posted that twice in here and nobody said anything..but the first time I believe I said Dorsey or Branch at DT. Then it would be a truly flexible draft!

Do you think Wolfe plays inside next year, or they keep him in a similar role?

That's the great thing about the roster at the moment. Not having crucial needs at high profile/demand positions like DE/LT/QB/WR/CB. It gives us so much freedom to do the most in the offseason.

For Wolfe, it really depends on how he develops in the offseason. He needs to go through another offseason of full conditioning to really get in top shape, but he'll probably play both positions depending on down and distance.

Ideally we draft another high end DE through the draft so we have more pass rush from the other DE position while Wolfe is the interior pass rusher.

Who knows, maybe they take a chance on Cliff Avril right?
:)

Bmore Manning
12-10-2012, 05:39 AM
That's the great thing about the roster at the moment. Not having crucial needs at high profile/demand positions like DE/LT/QB/WR/CB. It gives us so much freedom to do the most in the offseason.

For Wolfe, it really depends on how he develops in the offseason. He needs to go through another offseason of full conditioning to really get in top shape, but he'll probably play both positions depending on down and distance.

Ideally we draft another high end DE through the draft so we have more pass rush from the other DE position while Wolfe is the interior pass rusher.

Who knows, maybe they take a chance on Cliff Avril right?
:)

Don't forget about Hunter.. Del Rio was high on him heading into the season. Ayers has played well in his limited opportunities, and Malik Jackson is still around. That's 3 SDE options.. I hope Wolfe can permanately play inside next season. We both really like what big Vick has done this year, and I would like to see Bannan and Unrein upgraded next season, with a rookie (Brandon Williams) and a veteran FA (Knighton, Dorsey, Branch).

Imagine this line

Doom, Vickerson, Knighton, Hunter
And reserves being Ayers, Wolfe, Williams, Jackson
That's serious depth and talent!

Bacchus
12-10-2012, 06:16 AM
In the case of WR it is not a position we absolutely need to take a first rounder or drop a lot of coin in free agency for. The beauty of a Peyton Manning is he makes decent receivers look great. A good slot guy would be nice though.

Really, Thomas goes down Willis goes in the game how confident are you!?!?!

Hulamau
12-10-2012, 06:29 AM
...Clearly if us fans take our eyes off seeding over the next few weeks to discuss something that isn't redundant as ****, the team will blow it's opportunity.

Ha! :curtsey:

fontaine
12-10-2012, 07:11 AM
Don't forget about Hunter.. Del Rio was high on him heading into the season. Ayers has played well in his limited opportunities, and Malik Jackson is still around. That's 3 SDE options.. I hope Wolfe can permanately play inside next season. We both really like what big Vick has done this year, and I would like to see Bannan and Unrein upgraded next season, with a rookie (Brandon Williams) and a veteran FA (Knighton, Dorsey, Branch).

Imagine this line

Doom, Vickerson, Knighton, Hunter
And reserves being Ayers, Wolfe, Williams, Jackson
That's serious depth and talent!

It really depends on which way JDR wants to go.

We've got a very stout strong side against the pass and run game with DE/Miller/Champ on the left side because those guys can tackle/shed/cover and attack the QB.

But our interior doesn't have very stout DTs or a run stuffing Mike in Brooking, but are okay because our secondary is very good at swarming. Brooking especially sucks in my honest opinion because he gets pushed out of the play so easily and can't make tackles outside the hash marks because he's so slow. Our Mike should be making highlight reel type plays because Von does such a good job of sealing the edge on his side and funnelling the run play inside.

The left side is where we are weakest against the run with an undersized Doom that can't/isn't asked to set the edge a whole lot but is rescued by guys like Harris and Raheem Moore who very efficiently go about making run tackles very close to line with minimal gain. That's why we need a man mountain at the 1 tech DT position who can routinely take on multiple blockers (like Dorsey) and allow Wood to flow to the ball on that side without having to fight through traffic and that would help against runs up the middle as well and leave Wolfe one on one to attack the QB lined up more in a 3 tech role.

Doom especially seems to be wearing down (with at least 4+ games to go), he isn't playing with a whole lot of strength right now (his shoulder injury doesn't help) and is only trying a speed rush instead of mixing it up like he was earlier in the season.

It's probably the only complaint I have of JDR (have for a while) when a guy like Doom is logging the most or 2nd most snaps out of all DL when he's most effective playing on pass rushing downs.

g6matty
12-10-2012, 07:16 AM
PFF just posted in this weeks review if you take out his stats for the 2 games against san diego dumervilles rating is -8.8 in pass rush efficiency this year. Thats pretty bad and with the eye test imo that seems about right this season he hasnt made many plays lately. The only one we can count on for consistant rush is miller. I think doom is due for a restructuring this offseason

fontaine
12-10-2012, 07:39 AM
PFF just posted in this weeks review if you take out his stats for the 2 games against san diego dumervilles rating is -8.8 in pass rush efficiency this year. Thats pretty bad and with the eye test imo that seems about right this season he hasnt made many plays lately. The only one we can count on for consistant rush is miller. I think doom is due for a restructuring this offseason

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There's no context around these numbers.

For example you could have a rookie DE play 6 snaps a game and post a negative rating, while a veteran DE playing out of position/injured and logging a huge amount of snaps logs a similar negative rating.

So which one is the better player?

Dumervil has played over 700 defensive snaps this season so far.

That's 6th/7th most amongst all 4-3 DEs. And he's logged more big plays (sacks, hurries, FFs) than any other DE with near that many snaps.

Doom is simply wearing down and you can see it in his play because he's bull rushing/using power/leverage moves far less often the past few weeks. He's one of the smallest DEs in the game and he's simply not built to be an every down DE (most DEs aren't anyway).

But that's what happens when you have Hunter on IR, Ayers being on the bench as a non factor the first 6/7 games, and having nobody else at DE.

Same with Wolfe who's been asked to play the most amount of snaps out of any rookie DL.

TheReverend
12-10-2012, 07:49 AM
^ let's not forget matchup opportunities. We've seen Von matched up against TEs many times this year... can't get that opportunity at all without an Elvis

g6matty
12-10-2012, 07:58 AM
700 snaps and only 8 sacks....

fontaine
12-10-2012, 08:00 AM
That's why having this mini break, and then a first round bye (hopefully) will be a big deal for this defense to heal up and rest to really make a push for in the playoffs.

g6matty
12-10-2012, 08:03 AM
I like the broncos as much as anyone in the world but tell me honestly when youre watching these past 5 or so games youre not sitting there thinking where the **** is dumerville? He has the 6 ff going for him ehich is nice to see but he should be a 14 sck guy a season easy. Hes not getting it done this year sadly

TheReverend
12-10-2012, 08:22 AM
I like the broncos as much as anyone in the world but tell me honestly when youre watching these past 5 or so games youre not sitting there thinking where the **** is dumerville? He has the 6 ff going for him ehich is nice to see but he should be a 14 sck guy a season easy. Hes not getting it done this year sadly

Okay, let's put it this way.

Say you're JDR. You're gameplanning for the upcoming week. You find a weakness you want to exploit in the opposing team's protection.

Who are you going to scheme to attack it? Elvis or Von?

Now you'll see why Elvis' skillset has been shifted into a more supplementary role and not as the primary rusher.

g6matty
12-10-2012, 08:25 AM
Thats stupid. Elvis rushed the LT his entire career they both get one on ones and von more times then not gets the double team . Elvis lost weight in the off season maybe he needs it bck

TheReverend
12-10-2012, 08:40 AM
Thats stupid. Elvis rushed the LT his entire career they both get one on ones and von more times then not gets the double team . Elvis lost weight in the off season maybe he needs it bck

...not even close, dude.

g6matty
12-10-2012, 08:59 AM
So what are you trying to say youre happy with his production im assuming. Youre happy with his contract with clady coming up then decker & dt the following year

socalorado
12-10-2012, 09:05 AM
...not even close, dude.

I thought you were in BALT?
Did you recently move to JAX?
Weird.

lonestar
12-10-2012, 09:58 AM
In the case of WR it is not a position we absolutely need to take a first rounder or drop a lot of coin in free agency for. The beauty of a Peyton Manning is he makes decent receivers look great. A good slot guy would be nice though.

What are the odds of a WR making a big contribution the first two years. Unless you find a sleeper like DT and even he was not all that great his first two years you need to get one in the late teens. That is not going happen.

I'm not sure why you and many others think that the team has to have 3-4 big name WRs. Unless you think that we are going to lose one to FA soon it is nuts to tie up big bucks on a spot that has young guys on the rise at NOW.

We do not have to have a roster full of all pros, nice to have but to expensive to keep as noted during our super bowl runs. Everyone thought they needed more money and the exodus started the minute John retired.

I'm not looking for a couple of glory years and then ten years of rebuilding like we had before. IF Brock is. FQB in the making then when Manning retires it would be nice to have a team to support the kid.

WRs are flakes and even the few that make it big in the rookie years are head cases.

Find some kids and develop them like they did in INDY. You can get moderately priced UFA that are on lousy teams or with crap QBs and let them blossom in Denver.

lonestar
12-10-2012, 10:03 AM
Really, Thomas goes down Willis goes in the game how confident are you!?!?!

Where are you going to find the money to keep all these head cases once we get them?

You are looking short term only. IMO

We have other needs to fill besides spending big bucks on a head case spot.

BroncoMan4ever
12-10-2012, 03:40 PM
Really, Thomas goes down Willis goes in the game how confident are you!?!?!

Not as worried as many here are. We simply target TE position more. RB in the passing game become a bigger part of the offense. Virgil Green comes in and dominates on seam plays. Instead of our seemingly base 3wide sets, we go more 2 TE base with a 3rd TE brought in to play the slot or out wide if needed

BroncoMan4ever
12-10-2012, 03:45 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There's no context around these numbers.

For example you could have a rookie DE play 6 snaps a game and post a negative rating, while a veteran DE playing out of position/injured and logging a huge amount of snaps logs a similar negative rating.

So which one is the better player?

Dumervil has played over 700 defensive snaps this season so far.

That's 6th/7th most amongst all 4-3 DEs. And he's logged more big plays (sacks, hurries, FFs) than any other DE with near that many snaps.

Doom is simply wearing down and you can see it in his play because he's bull rushing/using power/leverage moves far less often the past few weeks. He's one of the smallest DEs in the game and he's simply not built to be an every down DE (most DEs aren't anyway).

But that's what happens when you have Hunter on IR, Ayers being on the bench as a non factor the first 6/7 games, and having nobody else at DE.

Same with Wolfe who's been asked to play the most amount of snaps out of any rookie DL.

Damn I was really looking forward to seeing Hunter play this season. Seemed like he was getting ready to go beast mode.

BroncoMan4ever
12-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Where are you going to find the money to keep all these head cases once we get them?

You are looking short term only. IMO

We have other needs to fill besides spending big bucks on a head case spot.

Take a really good look at this roster. Peyton, Doom, DJ, Bailey and Kuper are the only guys with big contracts. And Kupe's isn't truly that big. Add in more than likely DJ's contract is more than likely coming off the books. Next season is the last of the guaranteed money Doom has coming, so a restructured deal is likely in the near future. PM has been a team guy willing to rework his.deal if necessary. Now the guys you are worried about DT,Decker, Clady, Von, and maybe Harris and Carter will all have new deals coming up soon.

Decker is good but he isn't 10 million a season good
DT will get paid as will Clady and Von

What you are seemingly not seeing is this isn't the Shanahan regime of unloading Brinks trucks at FREE AGENT doorsteps. Instead of that approach that money goes to keeping the team's own while having players on smaller rookie contracts and filling holes with short term deals on modestly prices free agents.

The money situation is ok and wr can keep our guys.